Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay. Hello. Um, it's 406. We'll call this meeting of the Santa Fe County Planning Commission to order. Uh, let's all uh let's take a let's take role, please. here. Here

here. Thank you. Let's all please stand for the pledge of allegiance. Next item is to approve the agenda. Um are there any uh changes to the agenda staff?

Cherabo commission members. Uh there is a change to the agenda. The two final orders on the miscellaneous agenda. Uh, case 245310, final order for Christine Striker, and case 255020, case for Thomas Simick. Those final orders are not quite ready. Um, so we're going to bring those to the next planning commission uh, next month. Okay. Thank you. So, with that in mind, uh, removing those two items, may I get a motion to approve the agenda? I'll make a motion to Thank you, Commissioner. Second. Thank you. Um, all those in favor, please signify by saying I. I.

I. Any opposed? That motion passes. The agenda is approved. Uh, next item is to request approval of the September 18th, 2025 minutes of the planning commission. May I get a motion to approve those minutes? Motion to approve. Thank you, Vice Chair. May I get a second? I'll second. Thank you, Commissioner. All those in favor, please signify by saying, "I." I.

Any opposed? That motion passes. Those minutes are approved. Uh, next is the consent agenda. Um, is there any interest on pulling anything from consent? I guess not. That didn't happen. So, may I get a motion to pro approve approve the two items on the consent agenda? I so move to approve the consent. Thank you, Vice Chair. May I get a second? I'll second. Thank you, Commissioner. All those in favor, please signify by saying, "I I."

Any opposed? The consent agenda items are approved. Uh, skipping the two miscellaneous agenda items that were pulled, the next item is new business, case 25-5160, Gilbert and Rosala Baka variants. Staff, excuse me, chair. Yes. I'd like to recuse myself from this case. I know the applicant.

Okay. Thank you very much. So, please note that uh commissioner has recused himself. So, please proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chair and commission members. Destiny Romero, building and development review specialist. Senior Gilbert Baka and Rasala Baka applicants through their agent Benito Martinez request a variance of chapter 9 section 9.12 village of Awafria community district overlay table 9-12-3 dimensional standards of the of the sustainable land development code. This request is to allow a three lot residential subdivision on a parcel consisting of approximately 0.77 acres. The base zoning allows one dwelling unit per 0.75 acres. The Awa Fria Community District overlay provides provides a density may be increased to one dwelling unit per 0.33 acres if the law is served by public water and sewer. The property is located at 2232 and 2235 Ranchitos Debbaka. The property lies within the village of Awafria community district overlay commission district 2. The property currently has one single family dwelling and one accessory structure carport. Ranch Ranchitos debaca is a private road which takes access via Kaha deto grant road. The property is served by the city of Santa Fe sewer and aafria community water association. After a site visit conducted by staff on Wednesday September 3rd 2025 violations were identified. It was discovered that a recreation vehicle is hooked up to utilities and being used as a dwelling.

Per ordinance 1996-11, recreational vehicles do not qualify as a dwelling unit. Staff also discovered approximately 5 mounds of fill material and an unpermitted accessory structure conx container on the property. The agent worked with Santa Fe County staff on October 9th, 2025 to submit an after-the- fact permit for the accessory structure conx container and to permit the 5 mounts of fill material. They have not obtained the permit yet, but is but it is being reviewed by Santa Fe County staff. Staff conducted a site visit on October 10th, 2025 to ensure the issues above had been had been addressed by the applicant and found that they had come into compliance by disconnecting the RV and removing the vehicles. The applicants have addressed the variance criteria and staff has responded to the applicant's comments as contained in the memo. Hearing officer recommendation. On September 11th, 2025, this request was presented to the sustainable land development hearing officer. The hearing officer memorialized findings of fact and conclusions of law in a recommended order on this request. The hearing officer based on the evidence presented recommended denial of the applicant's variance. Staff's recommendation. Building and development services staff has reviewed this request for compliance with pertinent SLDC requirements and finds that the facts presented do not support the request for a variance. As stated above, staff does not believe applicants have made a showing that any of the variance criteria of SLDC 4.9.7.4 have been satisfied. Staff recommends denial of the requested density variance of chapter 9 section 9.12 table 9-12-3 dimensional standards of the village of Awafria community district overlay traditional community to allow the

creation of three residential lots on a 0.77 acre parcel. If the planning commission finds that the applica application has met the variance criteria and recommends approval of the variance, staff recommends the following conditions at a minimum be imposed. Mr. Chair, may may I enter the conditions into the record? Yes, you may.

Thank you. To be clear, staff's identification of these conditions is not intended as an indication that staff approves or would approve the granting of the requested variance. Staff's position is that this application does not comply with the SLDC and does not satisfy the variance criteria of section 4.9.7.4 and that no conditions, regardless of how carefully crafted, can change that non-compliance. These conditions are presented simply to inform the planning commission of recommended conditions if the evidence presented convinces you that approval of the variance is in fact warranted. Thank you. I stand for any questions. Thank you, Miss Romero. Are there any questions from commissioners? I have a question. I just want to confirm. I I believe in reading the hearing officer's the minutes of the hearing officer um at that time the RV was not disconnected, but um staff recently did inspect and the RV has been disconnected from water and sewer. Is that correct,

Mr. Chair, commission members? That is correct. staff went out there on October 10th and it was disconnected and was actually moved out of the property completely. Thank you very much, Commissioner Buger.

Thank you for the presentation, Miss Romero. Um, question. So, there are three review criteria that we need to use to evaluate whether the variance should be proved or not. Correct. Um second one is uh extraordinary and exceptional situation or condition of the property. Would you say that uh the u high price of Santa Fe real estate represents an extraordinary and exceptional situation or condition of the property?

Mr. Mr. Chair, commission members. No, because the applicant can actually get two lots out of this piece of property, but they are requesting three. Thank you. Uh the next question would be uh in the review criteria for variance. Is it anywhere mentioned anything about family transfer whether or not that is a review criteria or not? Mr. Chair, the answer is no to that question. Mr. Chair, Commissioner Member Bugger.

And last question, uh, when was the, uh, do you know off hand when the Aquafria overlay zone was created? Um, and was it specifically was it created before the applicant purchased the property in 2022? Mr. Mr Chair, Commissioner Buger, I believe it was created but then amended then again in 2016. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. Commission Commissioner, um you had mentioned they could have two houses. Do they come in with any sort of alternative um option for two dwellings instead of three? Mr. Chair, Commissioner members, not at this time. No. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh any other questions? Yeah, I do. Commissioner, thank you. Um does the I noticed here in the letter from the it looks like the um let me see the water association agree water association there's a statement made here I just want to see if the county has any knowledge of this uh the subject lot was originally over one acre at the beginning and it lost it lost land through the expansion of Kah the Rio road and on the northern side and then also a part was taken by Santa Fe County by the for the Santa Fe River Trail. Do you know if this was through condemnation or do you have any idea,

Mr. Chair? Commission members, we do not no documentation was provided to us um stating what exactly happened. Okay. Thank you.

Um I just wanted to follow up with respect to the variance requirements or the criteria. My understanding is that the uh hardship scenario really has to be based on the property itself. like is that correct? It's not necessarily a financial hardship or personal hardship. Just want to confirm that that is correct that it's strictly based on the properties like a topography thing or size something of that extent. Mr. Chair, Commissioner, member de la Cruz, I mean Lac Cruz Crawford, the the answer to that is um we really don't view hardships as monetary reasoning for uh the application being approved. Uh what we look for is terrain management issues um issues that would accompany the what the applicant is state uh condemnation of the land or or such instance as those. Um, so therefore we do not really look at monetary reasoning as

and and that's why I'm glad u commissioner trio asked that question too because I was curious about what I saw that letter. Is there any documentation that showed what this lot was prior to you know this sort of change in in lot size that it mentions where it used to be larger than one acre. Mr. Chair, commissioner members, we haven't seen anything. What we do have is the legal lot of record which is was the approved plat done by Santa Fe County and that was attached as exhibit. It's exhibit B correct.

Yes, exhibit B. And actually um that was going to be a question for mine too. in exhibit B in this uh subdivision plat that you have here. Where is the property in question that we're that we're looking at here? Because obviously we just have kind of this um little sketch that's provided to them as far as their their site plan lot split. But where is that um that actual lot in with respect to this subdivision?

Mr. Chair, commission members, it's going to be the lot that is labeled parcel one. Cherabbo, commission members, it's the northernmost parcel on that plat. Gotcha. Okay. There is already a at least a proposed fire apparatus uh access driveway there that would be serving that particular property.

Mr. Chair, commission members, that is correct. Is there sorry for asking so many question but is there any um any information that uh that the applicants provided as far as driveway access and things of that nature when you're dealing with three lots? I'm just kind of curious what they're how they're considering that and any uh planning and zoning land development considerations with respect to having a one single driveway servicing three lots. Maybe staff could feed into that a little bit and again it's kind of a general question to see has the applicant provided anything with respect to that. Um

so right now no um right now the applicant is accessing off of Ranchitos debaca. Um if this application does get approved at that time that they come in for the survey this will be routed to our fire department. At that time, our fire department will also implement conditions of possible um turnarounds that they're going to be wanting with and what type of driving surface. Staff add to that as far as like I understand code requires a certain width and certain addressing etc. whenever you're servicing more than I believe two lots uh for a driveway and uh any anything kind of issues or concerns that you've seen just based on this particular lot and the proposed subdivision

cherbo commission members uh yes so after a decision is made uh if a decision is made for approval on this application for the variance when it goes forward for the plat um it is subject to Santa Fe County firerevention requirements as well as possible address changes. Those are all to be um decided during the review process for the actual survey plat. One more question. Um would this um would the density that this would create be inconsistent with the rest of the surrounding area?

Mr. Chair, Commissioner members, no. Um, the smallest that they can go down to in that area is 0.33. That would be the minimum lot size that they could go down to. So, it's not really consistent with the lots that are already there. Any other questions from commissioners? Mr. Chair, commission member, just to emphasize a little bit more on that. There are legal non-conforming lots that are smaller than 0.33 acres, just so that the the commission is aware. Um, but those are legal non-conforming lots. How many any other any other questions? Got one quick question. Yes.

So, so the I'm looking at the survey plat that was recorded at Santa Fe County in 2020 is what I see here. And so currently this shows if I'm on the correct parcel of land. It's the most northern part and it kind of matches up with the site plan. So there's a hammerhead already designed into here for fire. Is this is this not sufficient currently or is this sufficient? So, Mr. Chair, commission members, for the lot that it currently is right now that is sufficient. If the application does get approval to be further split, then they will have to show access to all three lots. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Miss Romero. Um, that's it on questions from commissioners. Great. Thank you. Appreciate it. So now the the applicant or their agent, if you'd come up, be sworn in um and present. Thank you. Yes. Mr. Chair, I have a hearing impairment members of the and therefore I'm wearing an apparatus. I am Martian. You have enough information in front of you minimum density loss of record. I would like to say that the situation regarding peculiar circumstances and hardship there's nothing that I can find in the code related to hardship being do in fact have a situation in our community in northern New Mexico in which median price home is excess of $50,000 Mr. his wife Rosala had several children are now in college and would not otherwise have an opportunity to live in the village in which they did prior to college or would they possess an income a debt ratio great enough in order to service the debt on 600 median home.

So my entire presentation is going to be hinged upon the fact that it is a hardship what we're going to do in the event that we do found in favor. We're going to have a manufactured home move in or two of the there's one existing which Mr.'s father resided in and that is fully approved and is on the property now fully permanent regarding the historic traditional village which is happen to be also peculiar is the oldest traditional historic village in the country. These families that came along with the original acquisition were granted by the king of Spain following successions that were long and narrow running north and south. And the reason was so that those families could have access to Gonzalez water for res. So these holding were long to the sector for their lives are still apparent today. This property happens to be located in claim exception area regarding the condemnation that is not the right term. I will let you know that through the principles of economics which are applied in that participating and more highest and best use

identifies that it has to be number one legally permissible that is this law in order to be productive to the maximum has to be legally permissive through the county in this case it has to be productive to the maximum the variance property Mr. Pus father was not condemned those rights that a property owner has through simple title and interest they are identified through what we call bundle of rights. These are economic principles recognized in real property appraisal real estate sales and all of the above property owner has simple title and interest as Mr. does he has the right sell, lease, use, give, enter or refuse any of the above. Those are a bundle of rights. Those rights, however, are limited by government of the county in this case by police, taxation, and imminent domain. Policing is not law enforcement. Leing is the land used by departments of the city, county, our locality to set a Santa Fe County sustainable land development code. They police the development as cheap. If someone passes away in this state and they do not have labor, the government has the right to take the property. All of this is relevant to what I have the right police taxation that's taxed. And then lastly, imminent domain is not condemnation. Oh, imminent domain. That's the right of the local government to take property in nature for the betterment of

the public. Thus to the west side of the north is that auto grant road. This parcel previously was over 1 acre and would have met administrative requirements had that not been exercise by the county. So on the north side there's a trail network system in which additional property was stated for eminent domain. This property would have been approved. This is also peculiar in nature and through the domain. What it did is it created this library. This part traditional community of our freedom is installed. It is it was created prior to the exception to small holy place to the founding of the city. Our freedom of traditional community had no opposition. They voted in favor to approve this that is the governing body of the traditional people city of San water division. We're not going to close to this with conditions as mentioned. There are many conditions to be made by fire by city water and through emergency vehicle access, ingress, egress. We have a surveyor in the event that this is approved and we break to create a minimum of 20 foot eastment.

So we have adequate access for emergency vehicle access, turn around and There also was no opposition. The property was within 500 ft of this subject property. No one showed up at the neighborhood meeting. Even had a device ready. We had no opposition planning commission. Did have one phone call come in. He is screaming and I notic that there is no one nowing in this meeting. Thus far we have not had anyone opposition of this. There are several things that I want to identify and was testified that there are not similarities of the size of properties. My understanding what the comment was. If you look at the flap of the hammerhead, look at the loss on that. Everyone is smaller than what our subject property proposals are. Those are less than 257. All along those lots are all smaller than our proposals. I'd like to ask that this body recognize that that statement is not true. size is one of the bigger and we know that that's why we're in this process with emphasis on life. Everything around it is smaller access of the fire department.

water, excuse me, community water through county, the village, community village water. They are in my entire neighborhood. Family transfer issue is on my original application. It was stated by Santa Fe County staff just now that family transfer was not apparent. It is what we identified originally. This is in fact a family transfer that's on the record on the original application. The hardship this is with emphasis particularly in terms of considerations. I think that we have a situation where opposition all the way through. We didn't have one person in favor of this at this point in time. I'd like to question

commissioners. Do you have any questions for the agent?

I I do. Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Martinez. And I did misspeak. You're right. It is imminent domain. Uh, Yeah, that's absolutely correct. Um, so if I understand correctly, then it's on this it's the border here that at at what year was there imminent domain that took place that minimized this lot size from greater than 1 acre or 1 acre to this size? Do you have any idea? I've been trying to track that information down but this is created in conjunction with that and let me if I may expound on that original land was 1981. It was recently I believe was amended. This was prior to that. So, so this existed prior to the sustainable land being overlay.

So, Mr. Chairman and and Mr. Martinez, is it the intent then that you know if this if this body was to approve it, it's 0.257 per lot. So, is it the intent to deed each one of these lots to one of the children? Is that the intent? And Mr. Chairman and and um Mr. Martinez, I guess you guys have seen all the conditions that are set forth on from staff recommendations. Is that have you have you seen those already?

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That's all for now. Thank you. Any other commissioners? Commissioner Buger. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Mr. Martinez, this question may be either for you or Mr. Baka, whoever chooses to answer it. So, um, when did uh, Mr. Baka, when um, did you purchase the property? Commissioner, let's wait until he's sworn. So, so if you can hold your questions for the applicant until he's sworn. Okay. Please, please come come up and be sworn and you can be answer questions. Thank you.

Okay. Gilbert Baka address address uh 3993 Street. Thank you, Mr. Bcker. Go. Please, please proceed, Commissioner. Okay. Um Mr. Baka, when did you purchase this property? When did you receive a deed for the property?

I purchased it right after the pandemic. My father passed away. He leave he left no paperwork and uh we had to go through probate. So in probate I was a fortunate one to be able to be uh able to buy it. Purchase it. Bought it from your brother.

I bought it from the estate. So, what I have um what was in our packet was least the warranty deed May 18th 2022. About right and on the deed it says subject to restrictions, reservations, and easements of record. And I guess what we're talking about a variance to is a restriction, a reservation, an easement of record.

They were in place prior to your purchase of the property. this rather large cumbersome document, the sustainable land development code uh was approved and filed for record December 21st, 2011. So, it was in place before you bought it. Uh my question is, did you were you aware of the restrictions governing the use of the property prior to when you bought it?

No, I wasn't. Uh the only reason I came forward to do it to subdivide it because my dad had put two trailers on that property legally and um when I purchased the property I wanted to I've worked for P&M for over 40 years and I want to um I believe in doing things the right way. So, like Benito stated, uh, if something was ever happen to me, I want my kids and my wife to be make sure that somebody can't come and say, "Well, that property is mine and this and that." These traders are here legally and I'm trying to just do the right things. The uh the question did uh at what point did you decide you wanted to did you think about um increasing the density after you purchased this? Say you know years before or when did that happen?

I I couldn't Oh. When did at what point did you decide it was in your best interest to try to increase the density of the property? Yeah, thank you Gilbert. It was primarily the reason is to give their their kids somewhere to live, give them a property and be simple title and interest. They are in college right now. They want to establish a life for themselves. This is one of the biggest portions. He made a decision something like his kids. And when did he make that decision? I think was

So when did you begin this process? I think Mr. Commissioner Buger is asking when did you start this? When did the when did we file the application? It was filed somewhere near a year ago.

This the That pretty much sums up my questions. I'd leave you with a just with a comment that we have three variance criteria. One is the extraordinary and exceptional circumstance and we I've read this code. Believe me, I read I've read it all as as these fine gentlemen have. And the reason I asked the question does um price of real estate which is extreme justify as a condition it it and the answer was it does not it puts us in a difficult position to approve a variance um with that finding and I'll leave it at that. Thank you.

I understand.

Thank you. Thank you commissioner. I I have a question. Um Mr. Martinez, uh, you've indicated that you've reviewed the code and you don't really see a, um, a reference to hardship being to the property. I wonder if you'd listen to this and and respond, please. Section 4.9.7.1. The purpose of this section is to provide a mechanism in the form of a variance that grants a landowner relief from certain standards in this code where due to extraordinary and exceptional situations or conditions of the property, the strict application of the code would result in peculiar and exceptional practical difficulties or exceptional do undue hardship on the owner. So, so I believe the conditions are for the property, not necessarily the price of real estate within Santa Fe County. So, I I wonder if you'd respond to that because you've indicated you did a a bunch of research on this topic. Thank you.

Like to qualify myself for 2006. that president extremely knowledgeable property appraisal policy examination development development and this cannot be read Mr. broadly like that because property is affected in three areas of obsolescence physical, fun and economic. Those are the three criteria that relates to property as property is affected in a case of physical and functional those obsolescence are recognized on the site. For example, example is got an acre of land% of it is a royal planet cannot be built upon because of that. That dysfunction that is physical economic pertaining to the preference of the code is that in an economic sense that influence is from off of the property. My best example when I was instructing assessment tax policy at the University of New Mexico, New Mexico is that outside my temple is a property located next to a railroad and a house three bedroomedroom two bath garage two bath twocar garage a mile away that doesn't have the railroad but is the value difference those two you're going to have an influence in an economic sense from outside of the

property in this case the code that the economic because of the various process because we don't have enough land to subdivide through administrative process. I would like for you to recognize that the property also includes the elements and principles and obsolescence that affect the property. In this case, if that was the case, then we would not have this process because we are affected in an economic affected negatively. The people of the village who came originally before the 1600s to reside and who has strived in an agricultural sense now survive a manufacturing hardship the economic sense I believe this could recognize Thank you very much. And just to run this down a little bit further, so do you believe because of the price of real estate within Santa Fe County as a whole that the variance pro there should be variances able to be granted on that basis?

I would like Mr. members of the commission I would like to see land development code and I'm going to make a recommendation for future amendment number one and it does to keep the papas in the village in which they grew up number one number two that in the event that eminent domain is exercised that should be a criteria to recognize because it doesn't happen everywhere this is a very very rare and peculiar and extraordinary circumstance.

Thank you sir. On the eminent domain question, was the previous land owner compensated the fair market value or greater for the taking um for the expansion of Kaha Deloro and the trail? It could not happen without compensation. So, and that compensation that I think the county is limited to must be at or or above fair market value. Correct. Yeah. Fair market value transaction. Great. And this is not an arms transaction.

Thank you very much. Any other questions from commissioners? Yeah, I have a comment. I think commissioner

first. Thank you. You know, I think that's very interesting presentation with respect to the idea of what the property is and I think in general you're correct. I would argue though that at least with respect to this particular planning commission we are dealing with dimensional standards right that's what we are asking for for a variance is strictly for dimensional standards in which case right now we're dealing with a you know uh lots lot size etc and stuff. So really it does come down to what is there an actual hardship posed by the property that creates you know uh that would require or that would um essentially say okay yes that is a legitimate you know reason to grant the variance not necessarily uh property values and I would just urge that that that's not necessarily the argument that I would necessarily want to see come forward for anybody that comes through asking for a variance is saying that hey property values are too high you know uh my family wants to stay here I agree with that but that's not necessarily the criteria that we have to land on um because it is and that's why I do think it is a property related issue that has to be addressed in order to seek that that variance um of course you know obviously like your example if you're dealing with oh grade issues you have to build a huge retaining wall. Obviously that's a financial hardship that occurs because of the property's uh you know conditions right um so I would ask you as well with respect to that because I'm looking at the site I do see that there's utilities poles etc right in the middle of the property right so if you were to split this property into two which you would be allowed to do um is it am I correct that are there any hardships that you would like to present

with respect to actual property property hardships that you see that could cause financial hardships because of that, you know, and the other part of it is that why I was asking the questions as far as the Eminem domain scenario is that I do believe that is a legitimate thing where if this property was, you know, uh ended up getting sized lower, uh where it should have could have potentially been split into three lots, that is a reasoning that I could maybe, you know, understand. So uh you have any comments with respect to that on that stuff?

Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, thank you for those comments and I I tend to disagree with respect to uh you said financial something that happens on retaining wall financial it is financial economic obsolescence that is from offsite and it affects the ability for a local person to gain home ownership. It's not that broad in the code. I would like to say uh and in fact yes the domain issue it would not be here if the county the property owner had no choice it was taken from them otherwise it wouldn't be here it's a very simple straightforward this is what I'd like to see in the land development recognizing that with that said the property is level it probably has a 2T from the east boundary all the way to the west boundary of 300 is not service already got utilities. There is a hydrant by the way which is very fire hydrant on the propert that will satisfy the fire beyond the cell. The only other problem is that it is right up north side the Santa River and is eroding by a day. Every time it floods, we're losing property. Are we not? So that is another criteria that you help me bring up the river and there is a 30

Yeah, actually that does lead to a sorry does lead to additional question with respect to the river there and you mentioned there being like a um you know a drop there etc. What is this? And maybe this is a staff question. What is this? What is a flood? Is there a flood zone scenario here? Uh is there a setback? Uh because generally there's a 75 ft setback from a particular flood zone. Um you know that may actually impose into your property as well. So I'm just kind of curious is there any information that you or staff have with respect to that?

Mr. Chair, Commission Member uh Lacru Crawford, there is a flood zone associated with the property. Um it has a small portion on the northern boundary. Um there is a 75- f foot setback from that zone boundary. Um what Mr. Martinez brought up is concerning due to the fact that the lots are smaller and he just mentioned there's a poss possibility of the the land eroding and falling down. So that that brings concern to Santa Fe County which we may require additional standards such as uh retention of that or stabilization of that bank. Uh depending on the outcome of this that's how we would proceed forward with any permitting later on in the future. Um just to clarify on the substances of monetary we do agree u money is a is a hardship but our code doesn't relate to money in terms of you know financial processing. Um the code clearly states it's for the land. Um and an instance of the Eminem domain had Mr. Martinez presented staff with the proper documentation showing this. There may have been a different um staff recommendation towards the commission. Um but because we do not have that information, it's hard for us to determine whether that is a factor in this case. So I just wanted to bring some clarity to those comments you made earlier.

Thank you. And actually while while you're on on the mic um there was talk about family transfer and neither of you can kind of uh talk to this question or whatnot but am I correct that with respect to a family transfer which is an exception for a subdivision under the code is that only limited to two lots or is that can that be done with three?

Mr. Chair, commission members, there is such thing as a as a family transfer. In prior code, there was a small lot family transfer allowed you to go one half the minimum lot size standards. In this case, we do not have small lot family transfers in this ordinance. It's called the family transfer. Um, therefore, they need to still meet lot size requirements in that respective district or overlay zoning district. Gotcha. And so there there's no limitation or exemption with respect to that as far as how many lots that family transfer could occur. I guess that was my question cuz thought I recalled something about there being kind of a maximum lot subdivision when you're using a family transfer scenario.

Mr. Chair, commission members, right now um as is uh the applicant comes in, requests the family transfer. It is obtainable for two lots. They have the density for two lots and that would be the minimum for us. Um therefore, that's why the request is before you for the variance to um exceed those requirements. The concern is not only monetary reasoning, but the concern is if we recommend approval towards financial burdens upon applicants, then we're going to start seeing these come forward more often. Um, which creates not only havoc for the community, but also um, sucks our water dry. It creates more traffic impact. It certainly affects the area and that's why we have the ordinances in place.

Thank you. Any other questions of the agent or applicant? Commissioner.

Um, why wasn't just splitting uh having two lots rather than three considered? Let's keep our two blocks for the retain existing blocks through a family transfer related to two family in my opinion. administratively transfer you don't need a family administrative decision for two I believe is incorrect is that you don't need a family administrator because we're below we're above the minimum Right. That's why I'm asking why isn't that being considered?

All the utilities are on the way. This is the reason we're doing the event to get access to be along that north boundary. But in the We're going to go larger than 20 ft so that in the event it is compromised by any flood any we're going to have that everything is in place our laws are larger in size along the road. Any other questions from commissioners? Uh staff. Mr.

Chair, I just uh wanted to make a comment. Commission members, there is family transfers. There is exemptions under the family transfers. There's land divisions. The only difference would be between the land division which administratively or f or the family transfer which is administratively both is that certain requirements of off-site improvements through a family transfer the applicant would be exempt from. There is no difference between the two. They're both under exemptions under plats and subdivisions. Got it. Thank you, Commissioner.

The Aquafria Village. Uh there's currently there's currently lots there less than the.33 acres that people reside on. Okay.

Which are we term recording other words they were created prior to 198. These are there are many laws that are below the minimum. many other proposals which are legal and nonforming the minimum as required and and Mr. Chairman and Mr. Martinez the Aquafria Community Water Association I assume that all the people that sit on that board are probably people that live in that community. Is that correct?

That is correct. And so this had to be presented to them. Uh, and it looks like it was on April 17th, 2025. They they initiated the letter, but they even though they're not the approving authority, but they do not seem to have any issue with three lots as stated in this letter. Is that correct? They are not in opposition. They agree to serve those three lawsuits that are Okay, thank you.

I can expand further village and there have been no one that has against Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Martinez. Any other questions from commissioners? I want to ask a question of Mr. Baka. Mr. Baka, how many properties do you own in the area? You own this and one other property. Yes.

Okay. And so um got it. And that is not immediately adjacent. It is somewhere close but not next to the beginning of the beginning of the corner all over here and oral. Okay. Got it. Okay. Thanks very much. They're all contin I understand, sir. Thank you. Any other questions from commissioners?

Thank you all. Thank you very much, Mr. Martinez. Thank you, Mr. Baka. So, um, is so this is are there any are there any other interested folks any other people interested in speaking on this issue? Mr. Chair, commission members, we do have William me online wishing to speak on this matter. Okay. Uh, um, Mr. Me, can you make Mr. me speakable and uh and Mr. May, please unmute yourself. Thank you.

Yeah. Uh do I need to be sworn in? Yeah, you do. Can you hear me? All right. Yeah. Okay. Um do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're going to give will be the truth? I do. Um please provide your name and your um address. Thank you. William me 2073 Camino Samuel Montoya Santa Fe New Mexico 87507 please proceed Mr. Me and I hope you're not driving.

No I not driving. Um so I'm president of the FIA village a letter on Mr. behalf and we support his uh uh three lots and the basis for that was uh before uh County Road 62 became the Kaha Deloro Grant Road uh it was basically just a dirt road and it was a little bit more to the west. So when they uh put in the bridge, it took some of uh uh Gilbert Baka's dad's property uh for that and then also the Santa Fe Greenway. And so we thought, well, you know, the property has been sort of shortchanged by uh these two county actions and um you know, it should be approved as a variance. Uh thank you. Thank you, Mr. May. Drive safely. Drive safely.

Thank you. Any other folks interested in speaking on this issue? Chairbo, commission members, we do have Katherine Baka online wishing to speak. Miss Baka, if you would turn your camera on and unmute yourself and be sworn.

Hello, Miss Baka. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Um, do you swear or affirm that your testimony will be the truth? Yes, I do. And would you please state your name and your address for the record? I'm Katherine Baka, 2062 Terzas Lane in Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507.

Thank you. Please proceed. Um, I just want I'm here as a resident and homeowner of the Awafria Village and also the treasurer of the Awafria Village Association and I just want to say that I also support Gilbert and hope that you will respectfully uh approve this today. Thank you. Thank you very much, Miss Ba. There anyone else interested in speaking? your hand up. Jerobo commission members, uh there's nobody else online wishing to speak on this matter.

Thank you. And no one in the room wishes to speak, so let's close the public hearing portion of this. And commissioners, I have a motion, Mr. Chairman, please. Yes.

I move to do pass the variance of case 25-5160 with all of staff's recommendations. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Just have a question unnecessarily, but I know there was talk about the flood zone and there might be some additional staff requirements. Is there anything any other additional conditions that we should add should this be approved?

Mr. Chair, Commission Member, uh, Lac Cruz Crawford. I don't believe that's necessary as these are part of the ordinance and will need to be enforced anyhow. So, there's a motion on the floor. Is there a second for this motion? Hearing none, uh, the motion does not move forward. Um, do we have any alternate motions? Commissioner Ruger. Uh, I'd like to move that, uh, case number 25-5160 be denied.

Thank you, Commissioner. Is there a second for that motion? I will second. We have a motion and a second. Uh, any discussion, please. Commissioner Buger.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh the uh the reason I made the motion uh was not because I didn't find your arguments compelling, not because don't support affordable housing or family transfers, but we have criteria in this code. We have um an approved Afria uh plan and district overlay which if in the future we want to have u affordable housing family transfer enter into uh sustainable growth management plan or the land development code. Let's do it. But right now we have criteria and u uh the criteria are rather clear. So it's why I made the motion.

Mr. Mr. Chairman, can I say something? Yes, Commissioner. So I do realize there is the criteria, but that's the purpose of this committee in my opinion is that if we're going to only go by the criteria of the book, we might as well not have a commission because that's that we're not here to we're here to make judgments based on this and different types of conditions. And so this is just my personal feeling. So if I letter of the law I said I'm just going to stick to this period then why are we here? So thank you so much. Thank you. Any other commissioners have comments before we vote? So may we have a roll call vote please? No. Yes.

Uh yes. Yes.

Yes. The mo the motion for denial passes. Thank you very much. The next item on the agenda is petitions from the floor. Staff, do we have any petition? Oh, no, it's not. My bad. Oh, no. I'm sorry. The next item is 5B, presentation of the public participation plan for revisions to the sustainable growth management plan. Sobert Foster.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the commission. I do have a slide presentation. I'll ask that. Do we also have have that in our packet or it's just on screen? It's just on screen.

Okay. Thank you. I think we have it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh members of the commission. I'm Herbert Foster. I'm a planning team leader in growth management. I manage the transfer development rights program in my day job. I'm also happy to manage the revisions to the sustainable growth management plan leading to amendments to our sustainable land development code. I want I'm here tonight with our consultants Jennifer and Scott. They're both from uh placemakers helping us put together the public participation plan for the revisions to the sustainable growth management plan. My the content of my presentation mostly is around uh the plan itself. I'm going to ask Jennifer in a few minutes to speak a little bit about why they're here uh the work that they're doing with us and um some of our some of our next steps in the process. But um I just wanted to take a few minutes and just introduce

myself uh the project uh the consultant team and describe a little bit uh of uh where we're headed and what I'm thinking in terms of uh the SL the the SGMP revisions. I'm sure you're familiar with the document. This is it. Uh it's 288 pages. Um there you know the outline it includes vision, purposes, principles, the official maps of um identifying growth areas and infrastructure, parks, recreation, etc. The elements on the on the right, you can see there's 13 different elements of the plan document itself. An element is like a chapter. Each element addresses these 13 issues and really how they relate to to land use and and development. land use and development is what really unifies all of these issues here. So, this is the document itself. It's 288 pages. Um, I think I'm one of the the biggest critics of the document. Uh, my goal is to make the plan much better. Um, I'll say this that out of 288 pages, only three deal with implementation. Something I I'd like I'd like to correct like to correct in in moving forward in this in this revision. Uh why are we doing this? Uh my my goal is to inspire action. I I would like this plan and our public engagement process to inspire people to really believe that if they come to our events, if they participate, they can make a difference in the county, their community, and in their individual lives. Because this plan will set the stage for future growth and development and regulations for land use and development that affect all of us. just briefly some of the uh the hopeful outcomes or the goals of the the project to preserve and protect natural and cultural resources. If we don't do that, then you know Santa Fe County is no longer Santa Fe County. Identify and

support individual communities in the community plan process. I hope this plan will set us up for doing future community plans that really have uh an impact on individual communities like Aua Fria for example. uh seek community-based and databased solutions. Uh approve countywide policies for evaluating development projects, something that the commission is uh intimately familiar with the criteria for approving a variance, for example, or a criteria for approving a zone change, for example. Those are amendments to the code, but uh we want to understand, you know, the the issues and the solutions at the community level. um particularly the policy. So when we are looking at development projects, staff and commission will have criteria on which to to gauge approval or or not. Uh be a resource to the community and leadership. Um, I'm hoping that if anyone has a a a question about growth and development, they can turn to the SGMP and and find resources they need to inform their decisions, inform their advocacy, inform their inform their work and and decide to participate uh build capacity in the community and the staff. My intention is that I personally will be writing the plan um and uh we will be making the maps with within staff uh that we have on board right now. Um, and one of my favorites is to unify the community goals with the development regulations. I'm going to talk a little bit about that. Um, I see some disconnects. This plan is aspirational. It's the vision for the future, how things ought to be. The SLDC is a regulatory document of how things, you know, must be. There's some disconnects and I like to close those gaps. Talk a little bit about that. And and my recommendation for connecting policy to regulation through this planning process.

Uh why are we doing this now? Well, we want to evaluate the the theif the 2015 SGMP. Its time has come. It's been 10 years. Uh we want to understand emerging issues. The SGMP talks a lot about different issues affecting the community and some of those um are still very alive and well today or there's new issues that affect land use and growth and development decisions and we want to engage the public and have a conversation around those. uh identify new opportunities. Uh similarly, you know, times have changed since the SGMP was approved and uh we want to take advantage of new opportunities that that are out there in partnerships and um new technologies, new planning techniques. Uh again, similarly, revitalize the goals and the strategies and update old old policy. Uh public participation. This is just a small list of different activities that we're considering. Um, focus groups, open house. We've been meeting today and we'll continue to meet tomorrow with staff and community representatives to talk specifically about part public participation and the type of activities that have worked. Um, what works, what doesn't, who's involved, who normally isn't, how do we reach them, what is our our message? And these are just some of the some of the uh methods that uh we're considering there. There are many many more and I think this is a good time to introduce uh Jennifer and ask her to speak a little bit about not necessarily these type of engagement activities but just her role and um some of her expectations.

Thank you. Thank you everyone. I'm a little height challenged here with this microphone. Um thanks so much for having me. I'm Jennifer Hurley. with placemakers and we're a consultant team that is supporting the land use staff in working on this plan and in developing the public participation process for the plan. That means the sequence of all of the different events and activities and communication tools that will be used to develop the plan. And our goal really is to make sure that we can hear from and engage with all of the different parts of the county and all of the different interests and diverse points of view so that the plan can really be grounded in people's experience and needs and um vision for the future.

Thank you. There'll be plenty of times in the next uh two two and a half years to participate in the SGMP revisions, but in the p in the next five months or so, we're going to be focusing really on on the public participation portion of it. See, so how are we going to do this? One way we're going to do this, not only through uh public engagement, is the mapping process. We're going to map out uh where growth ought to be and the character of of growth that will be occurring in in the county. Right now, the SGMP contemplates area plans and district plans. We don't really have any area or district plans, but what we do have is community plans. And I'm suggesting in the revision we have a what I'm calling a countywide land use plan. And then beyond that, beyond the scope of the SGMP, we contemplate community plans as they are now. and then even a finer grain a much smaller scale of specific neighborhood plans. And so in terms of the mapping, I just want to describe a little bit of the mapping process. Here we are in the county. Um we do not have jurisdiction, excuse me, um over PBLO property. Uh they are invited uh partners in the process by all means, but we just don't have planning and platting jurisdiction there. Uh federal land takes up quite a bit of property in Santa Fe County. So not only the PBLO, but federal land management management agencies are big players in land use and development and growth in the county. State likewise um municipal governments are um not in the county's planning and planning jurisdiction necessarily, but nonetheless um our partners and we're engaging with them. So basically the the scope of the SGMP

is of course the whole county but when we talk about leading into development regulations and amendments there they apply to private property on the county. So the question is um how do we plan for prop private property within uh within the county and um incorporate our our uh other land management a agencies and of course the sovereign pblo in the process. So what I'm s and one thing that the uh SGMP does do it is it defines SDA sustainable development areas and um I bring this up because we call them sustainable development areas and so let's say for example here is here here we are in the central kind of growth area of the county and SDA1 looks like this this is the area dev defined in the SGMP where growth ought to occur and then there's SDA2 where growth ought to occur but later not now but later and then SDA3 which is primarily you know rural parts of the county essentially where there's there isn't any infrastructure so growth is going to have to happen much later and I bring this up because um even though it's called sustainable development areas I I I don't believe that it is I believe this is based on what I call an infinite growth model. we grow in SDA one and when that's all filled we go out to SDA 2 and when all that is filled we go out to SDA 3. So based on that model we're going to run out of land. We it it's going to take some time, I'm sure. But um one thing that the SDAs don't do is they and the SGMP really doesn't do is describe and in any real meaningful way the the type or the quality or character of development that goes on on either side of those lines. It basically says infrastructure now, infrastructure later when we grow out and

infrastructure m much much later, infinite growth and to contain that growth in a reasonable fashion so we can essentially fight suburban sprawl and its consequences which I think are dire. So the question is what do we do? Um what I'm suggesting in terms of land use and the mapping and the public engagement process is we we consider different community types. So I'm suggesting rural communities, contemporary community, a traditional community and an urban community. These names may change. Again, these are just um some ideas for your feedback. And this is again more the content of the plan itself, not so much about the public engagement, but I wanted to give the commission an idea of kind of where we're headed and where we're think we're uh where we're going to arrive in terms of land use planning and amendments to the code. I'm I'm I'm suggesting we consider four different types of communities. And you can see this aerial image. This is basically an aerial map of Santa Fe turned upside down. So when I say urban, uh, I think of where we are right now, downtown Santa Fe. I'm not talking about Berlin or Dubai. When I say urban, I mean downtown Santa Fe is like the height of urbanism that we're envisioning here. There's also more to comprehensive land use planning than uh community types. What I'm suggesting is in the mapping process and when we identify um kind of growth management tools, we map out natural habitat, parks, open space, trails, community services like police stations, fire stations, libraries, um and special districts. That's another term for um development of countywide impact. Um natural habitat, for example, is not its own

community, but it's embedded in community. Parks, open space, and trails. They're not necessarily communities all in and of themselves, but they are embedded in communities or they can connect or in some cases divide communities. Seem like a a roadway or a major highway can either unify a community, give it identity or separate them. Give the example of um the landfill special districts. Um, a landfill can be a regional landfill that serves the entire county or solid waste can be treated as a recycling center that's in a neighborhood somewhere. So, I put these images like that to to demonstrate that natural habitat, parks, open space, trails, community services, they exist across all different types of community. It just a matter of character and scale and design and appropriateness to that community. So where I'm headed with this is that everything goes in the right place, but there should be a place for everything. So when we're considering policies and regulations and the mapping, um I'm suggesting our preferred land use plan identify those four one of every square inch of private property in the county would be identified as one of the four communities. So this map at the end of this process would identify every every every piece of private priv private property is within a particular community type and then in addition to that on the left we have I'm calling them land use districts like natural habitat parks open space those al also be need to be identified and planned out in the future and so I'm suggesting to organize all of this information that we're going to be dealing with is a series of tables that have definitions of these different types of communities and the different

districts that each of these community types have different design guidelines that that accompany them very to to get towards the regulations and to really define uh what these communities are really like and essentially what what belongs uh zoning districts. We can look at using this series of tables to organize all this information. We can allocate what type of zoning districts would belong in the different types of uh communities like rural residential would belong in a rural community. You don't put rural residential in an urban community. Urban type housing goes in an urban community for example. And then the types of public services that you might find in these different kinds of communities. In an urban community, uh, a family might have an option, uh, uh, their students might be able to walk to one or more elementary schools in a higher density urban neighborhood, but in a rural community, you're probably going to have to send your kids on a bus, for example. Uh, we can organize zoning and development regulations according to the type of community in which they which they are. And I I filled out all these tables not to make recommendations about these metrics or anything just to just to show an example of how it can be done. The all these numbers didn't come from anywhere. I didn't make them up. But I just wanted to show the series of these tables that I'm suggesting to help organize the information, to have conversations around what type of community do people see themselves in now and in the future, and to use this system to properly allocate the mix of land uses and the regulations that are appropriate for these types of communities and the different types of land uses that that serve them. And then we can also look at subdivision standards uh that are appropriate for different

community types. I'll take the sidewalk for example. In downtown urban areas, we have a 10 or 12 foot wide sidewalk. In a rural area, we probably don't have any sidewalk at all. So what I'm suggesting is for these regulations, we ask for different settings for the different type of community because what now we have very much a one-sizefits-all kind of code. Uh similarly we can look at roadway standards and um the community overlay agua other communities who have an overlay district. we can use this very similar format to help facilitate our conversations and um identify gaps and regulations and um and I believe make that very explicit connection between the goals and the vision of the plan of what type of community or communities do we see ourselves in the future and how do we regulate it I'm almost finished uh just very briefly the the schedule we are in the public participation plan right now today is essentially kind of I'm calling it a light kickoff with staff and community organizations uh we hope that the planning document will itself will will come to you in in a few more months when we have a draft and ask for your comment and feedback and ultimately February maybe uh March ask the board of county commissioners to adopt the plan and then the very next day it's implementation of the plan and discussing more of the details like I'm discussing here about land uses and community types and districts and regulations and Herbert's charts and tables and and things like that. We'll look at different mapping activities and surveys and and uh a number of outreach techniques and methods we can use to to help. And then beyond that uh the SGMP revisions itself um we are hoping to hire placemakers back to conduct the events that we're contemplating in the public

participation plan. And there'll be a lot of events that staff can do within our own capacity and resources, but I know that we're going to need some help from outside from outside help uh in the future for multiple day much more complicated type of strategies and so on. Then then beyond that and during that the SLDC revisions we're always revising the SLDC but uh one one of the uh results of the SGMP will be recommendations on how to revise the code so that it's more consistent with the goals and the community is really getting the development uh that they want. Uh some of the next steps as I mentioned we're working with placemakers in finalizing the participation plan. Um myself and staff are uh busy interviewing and on the web and collecting planning documents from different agencies and organizations. We don't want to repeat work that has already been done. We want to leverage the work has already been done. I don't want to reinvent the affordable housing plan with this. We already have an affordable housing plan. This should be a resource to point to the housing plan. And similarly with transportation, utilities, parks that we have an open space plan. So, one of my one of my uh objectives is uh to very have a very lean plan, not not repeat what's what's already been done, maybe not 300 pages, but you know, maybe a hundred, get to it quickly. Uh then, of course, community outreach once the participation plan is is done. Um and we have an inventory of planning uh planning documents and the surveys that are available. Uh we'll go ahead and and conduct those outreach events and then um begin drafting the document itself. I put this a journey of a thousand miles begins with a begins with a single step

because we are on a long journey a couple years at least and we're just at the very very beginning stages of this and wanted you to to be aware of it because I'll just end with this. One of the reasons we were doing this is I said to unify the plan and the code and state state law says the planning and zoning commission will adopt a plan that is consistent with the zoning with the regulations. And so I'm really keeping an an eye on that. um hopefully to make life a lot easier for a lot of us and communicate to the community um our our interest in engaging them and and finding real workable solutions so we can avoid difficult situations um like multiple variance requests and traditional communities that were not built based on modern day zoning standards. They were built on tradition. So as one one lot at a time goes there go the tradition Thank you all very much. Um, I know it was a little long, a lot to digest. I wanted to focus a little more on the content of the of the plan itself and invite you to our process and engaging the public. And this won't be the last time you hear from us. I promise because we'll be asking you to to make a recommendation to the commission to adopt the public participation plan and then the the uh the sustainable growth management plan itself.

Thank you, Mr. for foster care. Just to be clear, there's no action we take until you have developed the public participation plan and you're requesting approval of that. Exa Exactly. Thank you. Between now and then, I would like all of you to come to our events and uh take an active role um in in formulating the plans.

I am I have a a couple of questions. One of the things that concerns me in thinking about the impact of the community focused um nature of dividing the county into different types of community is those things that are in the public interest. People who already live somewhere and already got theirs might not be interested in what's best for the community because it impacts them. I you know we get a in the existing growth management plan that we were informed of the renewable zone that subsequently um this large commercial solar facility was placed in. And so the concern I would have is by saying this community is different from that community and we set our own goals, there may not be a countywide interests that are best served. So I I wonder if you could speak to that a little.

Yeah. Uh you're absolutely right. It was a concern I have in identifying you're this community or that we want them to be self-identified. Um I can I can make the maps based on those tables and those definitions and those standards that that I was talking about. In fact, I already did make a map. Uh it's not hard to ident to we have traditional community zones. We have traditional community overlays. So those are already established. I just want to emphasize I I I hear you. Uh we will I want to address that and just say that we're not we're not the intent is not to build the Berlin wall around these communities. We recognize that communities are interwoven. They overlap. It's it's a messy thing. Those borders are not real clean. So, we're cognizant of that. Um, nonetheless, it is one of the best practices in long range comprehensive planning. I think it leads to vision. I think it helps people start talking about the community that they live in. You know, where is your community? What is missing from your community?

What do you what would you like to see happening? Well, where is the community? Is there a center to the community? So if the community is just this neverending well sprawling landscape then it's hard to manage growth in that way. Thanks. Any other questions or comments from commission commissioner Buger?

Thank you Mr. Chair. It's a good presentation. Uh and thank I'm glad that uh you were here for the uh entire planning commission meeting where we had a case study where we had a variance request in an overlay district as part of an approved uh plan that uh uh it's good to see that and I think you referenced um that you intend to close the gaps between the aspirational issues and the sustainable stustainable growth management plan and the regulations and the LDC. I've only been on this commission for eight months, but uh I would concur there are gaps. So uh how do you plan to close them? series of public engagement. The tables is a I'm suggesting is a platform for having those conversations and making the explicit connection between the the regulations and the community that it lives in or the uh the regulations that determine the form and design of the project and that it's appropriate to the character where it is. So toward

answer your question that those tables for me are is is a tool.

But toward that end to what extent are current planning that deal with uh at least the specific land use issues on daily basis? How are they plugged into the process and how do you intend to plug the planning commission deals with it on a monthly basis into the process? Well, a couple of couple of ways. Uh, we've talked this morning and and earlier about steering committees. Um, I would invite I if some of the members could serve on the steering committee. I'm not so sure that about that. Maybe, maybe not. Um, I've presented this to the staff a number of times. Um, we have public hearing procedures for sure. Um I'm not certain I'm I'm answering the question fully or fully understand the question itself.

You're you're getting there. The question is uh I would hope in the your pro your public participation process that the folks who deal closest with at least some of the issues that are you would be addressed would be plugged into the process. So that's uh not a not in a public hearing capacity where you have three minutes to talk. Yeah. But in a steering committee or that's is is that specific enough?

I'll give you one one thing that comes to mind of how um we've been working together and try to answer some of these bigger questions. We have um I think all the way back to 2024. Every year we have a spreadsheet of all the different types of permits that have been issued. So, I want I'm looking at that data to see out of all those permits, how many of them are for a zone change or a variance. There's a massive amount of those applications that are for a setback variance. We know something's going on with setback standards. They're not just they're they're not matching what the community wants or what's already on the ground. There's a lot of applications for a zone change or a density variance. We'll know that something hap something is happening there. So we would work together to kind of to dig into the code and see where those disconnections are and if that reveals information about well maybe we need to change the setbacks or that particular community would need to look at their overlay to change the setback standards. That's an example of of I'm trying to to get to the to the details and and use that information to create an accurate reliable map of existing land uses. We look at permit data. We look at aerial photography. We look at building footprints. So, we're coordinating with the GIS staff, uh, land use staff, folks who do the development review. They're through the data, through steering committees and presentations like this. I'm not letting them go very far at all.

That that that's good. the looking at the number of variance requests and conditional use permits that have come before the body would that's a good strategy to explain why and uh I'll just one last thing just a it's a micro issue but okay live in the micro um yeah through this process is uh maybe uh maybe there's a way that uh I never understood why uh this commission doesn't hear subdivision requests in addition to variance and cup but that's that's a micro issue

we will be Mr. Chair I'm sorry I keep on I I drop into informality very quickly I apologize Mr. chairman, members of the commission. Um, I already forgot what I was going to say. So, yes. Um, good point. We we are going to be looking at that later. The SLDC has a table of all who must hear what and there's definitely some in inconsistencies there like like you pointed out and part of this in future phases. We're going to look at even how can we improve the public hearing process, the the pre-application meetings, neighborhood notification and and our community plan and so on to to make sure that we're all coordinated as best as we can.

Any other commiss commissioners have questions or comments? I just have one one quick thing. Um, it was my understanding that there was going to be some sort of interaction in and around the city. There were going to be sloohs or blues. There was some kind of acronym that um, you know, it's kind of a a EZA reborn or something like that. What whatever happened to that effort? Because I think the area around the city is, you know, an area of pressure and so I'm wondering if Perhaps you're not the right person to comment on this, but maybe I'm looking to staff.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the commission. I can I can address that a little bit. Uh the extr territorial zone, the ETZ, the border around the city where the county and the city have shared jurisdiction. I think I was can't speak as an authority on on what happened. I know it was in place. It was disbanded and we don't have any such thing. the count the the city is doing the very very similar process right now to what we are they're looking at kind of quick fixes to their code then they're revising their general plan they're calling it Santa Fe forward and then that will be get recommendations for their future code revision so we are meeting with them coordinating with them as much as we possibly can understanding that we're different jurisdictions at a slightly different place in this process but we share the same we share the same community especially in those areas around the city. And so I I feel good that the communication is there at the staff level and what issues emerge and elevate uh to form into an ordinance and and JPA and so on will will result in this process.

Great. Thanks very much. It brings up question that I had because I was just kind of curious when you kind of brought it up because I mean the idea of kind of separating things into communities, right? And one of them you mentioned is urban. Um, I'm assuming that really that ETX zone that you're talking about right now, right, that just outside of the city proper itself, that's like probably an urban correct community or county community zone, right? Because it's dense, right? And the idea is essentially to kind of manage growth around that that space, right? And try to keep denser growth amongst more uh call it urban even though it's kind of still rural one.

Yeah. Right. You know, so it's interesting and and it seems like yeah, a large majority of the county is really going to be under the rural scenario, right? I believe so. Yeah. So there's only little pockets throughout the county. I mean, outside of Santa Fe. Are there any are there any other

urban areas I guess you guys have identified that are actually kind of dense enough, you know, like little towns or whatever that are that are there? And then my last question, I'll let it go, is just um obviously water is always an issue. I just I know you're probably thinking about it, but just curious as far as like, you know, any mutual domestic water associations. We have one on the Sienna, any other areas like that and just making sure that they're involved in this process since we are dealing with the growth.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, commissioners. Yes. A couple things about that. The urban community, I'm not married to that word. I know it might trigger a lot of people. I'm not talking about building the city of Santa Fe all over the county. And I think urban community, I think of a concentrated area, like a community center, not a whole city, an urban portion of a community that has higher density, uh greater um uh more amenities, maybe even a bus stop because with a higher concentration of density and um it's it's feasible to have a bus stop there. I just want to be clear. I'm not recommending urban, but think of an urban node or a community center. That's a little piece of urbanism within I'd say one one other comment is yeah, um Santa Fe is largely rural, but if you look at the map, it is enormously contemporary community. Enormously the rural is being lost to culde-sac subdivisions. That's big statement. Forgive me if I'm speaking out of bounds. Um the I'm referring to the data, not Herbert's opinion. Look at the map. It's it's stunning.

So would you consider Tsuk um urban contemporary automobile? The S the SGMP defines traditional and and uh basically before the automobile and since the automobile. you look at the map and and the pattern of development, it's obvious immediately. Thanks very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Great. And next on the agenda, uh, petitions from the floor. Got any um matters from the commission. Commissioners, anything? Roger. Matters from the attorney. Anything? Nothing to bring up this evening. Thank you. Matters from staff. Chair commission members. Um, I would like to use this time to actually introduce our new land use administrator, uh, Michael Voss. Thank you. made you sit through the whole thing before you were introduced. I I like that.

Yeah. Thank you, chair and commissioners. Just uh to give a little bit background on myself, um I've been on the job as land use administrator in the office uh for a week. So, uh starting to learn learn things. We have a great team. Um and to Commissioner Buger's question earlier about uh current planners being involved, I sat through all of the meetings on public input today. So, I'm kind of a bridge between our current planning team and the long-range planning team. Um, I come to this position from uh the city of Albuquerque where I was a principal planner uh leading the regulatory planning team. So, I worked with their zoning ordinance um in a similar capacity uh interpreting the code and supervising the staff that did conditional uses and variances um which in Albuquerque just go to a hearing officer. So, their planning commission doesn't even see those. Um so a little bit different in pro processes. So I come with that background of how different places do things. Um so looking at how we can improve stuff here in the future. Um and and do things well uh for so you guys can do your jobs. Um I've also worked as a in a for a private sector consultant. Um did a lot of work for developers in that capacity. So I know both sides of the table and have experience with the city of Rio Rancho um as well. So I'm happy to be here and look forward to working more with you guys.

Great. And so if I could ask so what's going to be your role and involvement with us as a body? Um is it if there is a code change you'll work please help us understand that.

Thanks chair. Uh there's probably some of that to be to be decided. Um but the the land use administrator is by code the person who issues permits and does that sort of thing and get it gets delegated down current planning staff on all levels work on that. Um so I will be reviewing work just like Dominic and John are um providing input to you guys once I have a better handle on the code. Um and I I imagine I I will be one of the ones that kind of prepares amendments to the code and and works with our staff to do so. um when at the appropriate time. So, you're going to be doing the administrative approvals and your involvement with us. We'll still be working with these folks, correct?

Great. Thanks very much. Any other questions from Glad to meet you. Thank you. Welcome aboard. Thanks. And hope to hope you're not commuting. I I I am commuting. I've taken the train every day except I drove today so I can get home at a reasonable hour. That's good. Well, thanks very much. Anything else from staff?

Um, just an update. So, Commissioner Buger mentioned about um, you know, why subdivisions don't come forward to planning commission. That's per uh, I believe it's table 4-1 and chapter 4. It's not required to. So, that goes straight to the BCC. Um, but just a little change of pace that you guys do uh, know and are aware of. Next month you will be hearing a zone change case that was heard at the hearing officer last week. Um so just to change things up for you guys just a little bit. Um and then just a little bit of an update on the line solar commercial uh facility project. Um we're trying to obtain thirdparty reviewers at this time um for both the fire and the environmental impact report. And so what we thought was going to be a November, possibly December planning commission, um, we're thinking probably it's going to be December hearing officer and more than likely January planning commission is right now the the track that we're trying to go on for right now.

Great. Thanks very much, Commissioner.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Uh, Mr. Cisneros. So, wow. So ATR isn't under contract for a forever but for a while for longer. They're not um unfortunately I'm not an expert in the procurement process. Um but there is a process that has to be you know uh done and completed uh in order to obtain those services. Um and so we're trying to um get a tar back on, you know, for the review for Lineia, but it does have to go out to bid to other agencies as well. So um unfortunately that's out of our hands, you know. Um but we we're working with our finance department on trying to get that identified and lined up.

Yeah, I know everybody wants to leave. I just can't help myself. The uh Yeah. So whether it's ATR or somebody uh would be under contract to review you know future plans whether another battery energy storage or you know as if there's changes or whatever or I would imagine somebody's going to inspect work that's done. So there' be somebody on board.

We're trying to work that out. Um right now it's project specific. U we don't have the Atar is not lined up as an engineered service um that we have already on our list. Um and so we're trying to figure that out on how to be able to do that. Um our new operations manager uh Timothy sent us um with our department. He's working with staff on trying to figure that out and with finance to try and figure out how we can uh obtain these services, you know, for a longer period of time rather than just project specific. Um but that's all trying to be worked out.

Yeah, my my memory is the was probably brought on under a small purchase, a 60,000ish purchase and then um to get something over 60, you need to really have a request for proposals, which is a chunk of time. So small purchases wind up biting you later if you find qualified candidates. Thanks. Anything else from staff? Chair Bo, commission members, that is all.

Great. Thank you so much. Our next regularly scheduled meeting is November 20th, 2025. Please put it on your calendars and look forward to seeing you. So we're journ Well, do we need a motion? A second. Second. Okay. Uh, all in favor? I I We're journed. Thanks.