Historical & Landmarks Commission - Regular Meeting

You. I'm gonna call to call the meeting to order and I'll call call to order the historical and landmarks commission meeting at 12/04/2025 at 06:06PM. First order of business is roll call. I'll take roll. Commissioner Stocks? Here. Commissioner Vari Smith? Here. Commissioner Sousso?

Here.

Commissioner Varshney?

Here.

Thank you. We've got a note from commissioner Romano that she won't be here, and then I don't see commissioner Insiarte yet. Do we have a motion to excuse commissioner Romano and commissioner Insiarte?

Motion to excuse.

Oh, wait. No. She's

here. Never

mind. Just for commissioner Romano.

Motion to excuse commissioner Romano.

Thank you. Do I have a second? Second. Thank you. Those who are in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Anonymous, one absence. Thank you. Commissioner Romano is excused.

Next order of item is continuance and exceptions. This part of the meeting allows for applicants, members of the public, or other interested party to request an item to be continued without hearing or withdrawn or taken out of order. Are there any requests from applicants or public or the commission for continuance or exception for any of the items on tonight's agenda. I don't think we have any communications. I don't see anybody in chambers asking for continuance, so we can move on.

And, actually, if the lesson for commission is present, I do have to announce this. The historical and landmark commission has a seven members. Whenever a full commission is not present, like tonight, we only have six, applicants have the option to continue their item to another meeting. So we can hear the item tonight, or you can request for a continuance. If you wanna continue. Okay. So we'll skip this. So the next item we have is the consent calendar. The procedure for consent calendar calendar is as follows. Consent calendar items may be enacted, approved, or adopted by one motion unless requested to be removed by anyone for discussion or explanation.

If any member of the historical and landmarks commission staff, the applicant, or a member of the public wishes to comment on a consent calendar item. We would like the item to be heard on a regular agenda and make this request now. Items listed on

a consent calendar with associated file numbers can constitute a public hearing item.

What we have on the consent calendar tonight is the minutes of the 11/06/2025 meeting. So are there any anyone who would like to pull it for discussion, or are there questions or comments from from anyone on it? Or and I will entertain a motion if you have one.

I move to approve the meeting minutes from the November 6 meeting.

Thank you. Do I have a second?

Second.

Thank you. Those who in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Aye. Opposed? Those abstain? Unanimous one absence. Motion passes. Public presentation. This is a section where we would can address any item that's not on the agenda tonight. Are there any members of the public that would like to briefly address the commission on the on the item that's not on the agenda? This goes for in chamber or on the online. We cannot action, or we can only have, like, very little discussion on the item that's not on the agenda, but we we can hear the item if there are any.

Seeing none, I'll keep going. So let's move to the public hearing items. So item two, RTC number twenty five sixteen thirty six. This is the public hearing on the recommendation on a significant property alteration architectural review for a like for like replacement of windows on the property on a historical resource inventory located at 1310 Homestead Road. It is CEQUA status is exempt for CEQUA per section fifteen three thirty one of CEQUA guidelines on, under a class 31 historical resource restoration and rehabilitation. So I'm gonna go ahead and move this over to staff.

Thank you, chair. And before Summer starts with her presentation, I just wanna point out that some of you are aware that this property is subject to a code enforcement case due to these window replacements. Not not all of the windows have currently been replaced, but several were without benefit of permit. And so this approval and the subsequent DRH development review hearing would serve to retroactively approve that and then approve approve the remainder as well. There was other work done that our code enforcement team is aware of.

However, that work such as I believe there was some interior demolition and bathroom additions inside is not the purview of the commission, and so that is why that's not before you this evening. So with that, I'll turn it over to Summer.

That's good. Thank you.

Hi. I'm Summer Foss, assistant planner. I'll be presenting for 1310 Homestead Road. This is the request for the recommendation on the significant property alteration and architectural review for the like for like replacement of windows for a property on the historic resource inventory loaded located at 1310 Homestead Road. The existing site is 10,130 square feet.

Over on the right here is the property the home that we are discussing tonight. There is also another multifamily house on the property. The surrounding uses are downtown, single family, public, quasi public, low density residential. The zoning for this property is R3 medium density residential, and the general plan designation is medium density residential. Here we see the site plan for the property, the outline of the second multifamily residence here, and 1310 Homestead.

Here are the elevations. This up here in the corner is the rendering of what the property looks like. This is looking at the house from Homestead. This is the view from Homestead from Google Street View. See, there's a driveway here, and this is the front door.

And here is the view from Monroe. This is a corner property. Here we can see all of the locations of the windows highlighted here in red. This is the 2nd Floor and this is the 1st Floor. The action being considered is exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act pursuant to section 15,331 of the CEQA guidelines class 31 historic resource restoration rehabilitation.

Staff recommends that the Historic and Landmark Commission find that the proposed project located at 1310 Homestead Road will not destroy or have significant adverse effects on the integrity of the historic resource inventory property and that the proposed construction is compatible with the resource and recommend approval of the significant property alteration and architectural review. Staff has not received comments on this project.

Given our report, are there any quick questions for staff procedurally before I open this up to the applicant?

Yeah. I have a couple. Thanks. Has the city taken a look and determined whether windows were added to the property or removed, I guess?

Some of the windows were removed and replaced prior to this application.

No no window no new windows have been added under this code enforcement? K. And then what was the city's mandatory requirements for restoration of windows when there's a code enforcement event like?

So our historic preservation ordinance requires historical and the Marks Commission review of windows in some cases. In this instance, we did feel it was appropriate to refer the application to the HLC because it was, one, a code enforcement case, and two, all of the windows were being replaced. Typically, in an a nonhistoric house, we may or may not even review it through the building permit process unless they are punching a new hole, and we wanna see how that is gonna look aesthetically.

Thank

Do we have, like, photos or illustrations of, like, what so I saw the street view of, like, what it was before, but, like, are there any representation of what is going in or what has gone in or some of the ones that are replaced?

It's loading. This is the window specifications that were submitted to the planning department. We're using a pine wood double hung windows.

And if you look at the elevation sheet within the plans, it'll pretty much look well, it's like for like with what you'll see on a Google Street View elevation in terms of the the design and the location, obviously.

And design's, like, the same, like, same way it opens and stuff. Fine exterior. Okay. See, I see the drawings on the windows, but there is there, like, any kind of photo representation of what it's supposed to look like maybe even from the vendor somewhere?

We don't have that on file. We

can applicant or architect have that. Okay.

Do you know approximately, like, what percentage of the windows have already been replaced?

Believe it was approximately four. Is that correct? Yeah. Out of maybe 20.

So,

actually, if we don't have any more questions for staff, I can invite the applicant to come up. So this is our opportunity if you like to address the the commission to kinda, like, talk through, like, the some of the changes and reasoning and stuff like that with us, feel free to come up. You're welcome.

Hello?

You got it? Yeah.

Good evening. I'm here to present the 1310 Homestead Road. So, basically, just like Summer addressed earlier, this is like for like window replacement. And, apparently, there's a few windows have been replaced because of the damage. The water already got into the interiors, and the owner would present here. He had to replace a few of them, but majority of them still in place. And at the end, we're replace it's gonna look exact identical to the previous version of the windows.

Thank you. Any questions for the applicant from the commission?

I have a question. You you mentioned looking identical to the original. So you do you have some photographs of the original that we can compare to the new?

Correct. I already submitted to the planning department.

Those the when you say original, are you also thinking about the trim around said windows? Correct. Okay. So as we look at the

design colors also. Okay. Thank you.

The colors is actually kind of an interesting question, Sue. Or do you have plans to, like, just kinda, like, paint all over, like, the house, or is it just, like, around the trim? Just around the Okay.

Don't wanna expand the scope of work.

Yeah. I know. K. Just kinda curious, like, you know, how we're trying to approach this. Questions from the commission?

So the four that were replaced originally before, are they also double hung? I know we're not talking about those previous four, but are they similar in design to the rest of the windows?

It's going to be identical to the previous Identical.

Okay. Thank you.

And, actually, like, what where are the locations of the ones that are already replaced?

A couple of them above the staircase. One of them above the staircase and then a couple of them around the corner. Mhmm.

I have a question. It looks like the replacement windows are made of pine. Do you know what the original material was for the original windows?

Yeah. Back to wood. Pretty much.

But do you know were the original windows, like, hardwood?

No? This guy would Okay. Can

you show me the new one? Can you show me one of the new windows? One of the new ones?

We haven't put in the new We're going to replay. I already can see it now. Pick it out. We can Okay.

Yeah. Mhmm. Alright. Thank you.

Do we have more questions for the applicant as a commission? Any clarification before I open public comments, which I actually see any members of.

Is is it possible that we can all see that photo?

You can join the Zoom or just forward it to Summer, and she can display it. In?

You can send it to Summer, and then we can put it up. Yeah. That'd be great. And then we can kinda put it on our our Zoom as well, so it'll be part of the record.

Yes. Do you have my email? Okay.

Shows up the windows. Yeah. Show us what you have. Like

It's the same win Same photo. Yes.

Okay. That'll be cool.

So you can see on the left side of this, the original window style, and then on the right side, those that have been replaced with vinyl. Right, Danny? Right. That will be replaced again with the wood. That's a good comparison, actually.

And they'll be closer in style to the to the ones that we see on the left. Right? It's, like, the ones on the right right now. So final. Got it. Yeah. You sent out. Thank you.

You keep this picture to hand. I think we're gonna need it later. Could you keep this picture to hand? I think we're gonna need it later, please. Thanks.

I'll leave it up.

Do we have any more direct questions for our applicant before I open it up to the public?

I was just curious. When you had replaced them with the vinyl, were you unaware that the importance of your location and being surrounded by historical properties?

That's why we're here. Unaware. Sorry.

You were completely unaware? Okay. Just wondering how that happened. Alright.

Thank you.

I have a question. Is there a Mills Act contract for the house? No. It is listed on the HRA?

Are both structures on the HRA or just oh, just this one is listed on the HRA. And

was was it offered to the owner when they acquired the property to have a Mills Act contract?

I think Hanna and I talked about it at the counter a long time ago, but I don't remember. It'd the Mills Act? The Mills Act? The tax incentive program through the county.

Oh, yeah. You talked about

it.

Are you interested in the Mills Act? Are you interested in the Mills Act? You are?

That's that's gonna be a separate conversation, like, after this. It's a great program. A lot of us are on. Okay. So I think we're okay with questions for now unless you have more.

Yeah. No. I'm sorry. I misspoke earlier asking about the original material of the windows. But in this area, I think, you know, a lot of windows in old homes were made of old growth wood, not hardwood. I apologize. But, you know, redwood is actually a softwood. But, anyway, that's why I was asking because I think a lot of the windows around here made late eighteen hundreds, probably early nineteen hundreds are, like, old growth redwood, which you can't really buy nowadays. You know? That was my question.

Yeah. I don't know if that's available nowadays. Maybe I think they, you know, cleared a lot of that in early construction, so there's not a lot left for new construction, hence the pine. Just thinking out loud. Thank you.

Let's open up to public comments so we can go into discussion. If there are any members of public who would like to comment on this item, you can come up to the podium. Or if you're online, please raise your hand. Seeing none, do we have a motion to close public comments?

Motion to close public comments.

Second.

Second. Thank you. Those are in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye.

Those opposed? Abstain? No. Miss one absence, so we're closing public comments on this item. Okay. Let's have a discussion. Who wants to start? You're you're good. We'll we'll probably have more questions, but we'll we'll ask her to come

up. Yeah.

So I know this property will pass it to go to one of the best coffee shops in the area. The front right hand corner had two large fixed windows with leaded glass along the top edge. Those are currently if you could scroll down just a smidgen. Thank you. Those are currently double hung CC there.

I think that that corner faces a a very busy crossroads, Monroe and Homestead and Suppositor, a really beautiful old church and a couple of other historic properties, and that was always a marker Yes. I went around that corner to see the the leaded glass on this on this home, and that was not what we're seeing right now, and I'm not seeing a replacement for those in the drawings. That's one point I'd like to discuss with the commission. I I I feel like that was, you know, a real signature of the of the home. Part of the strong part of the historic makeup of that building, and and I'm sad not to see them look back.

I guess this is a question for Summer. Is this in the plan? Like, I'm looking at the Street View one on, as a comparison as well. How did you mention it? I didn't notice

it before.

That'd be this window. Correct? This is from Homestead. You're right. That's the one. From Homestead?

From Homestead, and it's, yeah, around the corner as well.

It looks like it's the two double hung, but I can check the window schedule.

It's thirteen and fourteen on the schedule.

They're proposing type c. Pictured here to replace those windows.

Question for the applicant. Like, for those specific windows that we were talking about, have you disposed of them already?

Just sharing this is what it looked like previously on Google Street View.

They're Is it like a my eyes are really The location of the camera required.

Very visible. It's actually, like, a distinctive characteristic of the house. And that's why I asked if the if the if the glass was disposed of already. If it wasn't, we could have been. Yeah. But I don't know if it's possible to find something. Yeah. Still, it's exactly at the Homestead And Monroe Intersection.

Applicants can speak on this more, but I believe the windows are custom. For this home already, so. Yes. I understand. I the windows that they're proposing are being custom built. Look like that. Not not this one, but what they're proposing. So I think you could recommend that they

I think I think that's gonna be, like, the biggest piece for discussion. Like, if I were to vote at the moment, I think I'm okay with the other windows that are originally double hung to re replaced with a with the new SMA product, but these two windows are a big stickler for me because it's the way that it is today with the with the new vinyl windows, they are very much out of place of where they are. And, like, what is appropriate is, like, the original design of what we have on here. So but I I do want this to be a discussion

if

anybody else have opinions on this.

I'm just wondering in terms of, you know, the windows. I know there's 20 of them. It's kind of a big project, but I was just doing some quick searching here on Google. In terms of the comparison between, like, old growth redwood or old growth wood in general, like Douglas fir, it says that it can last up to, like, a century if well maintained, whereas, like, pine, you know, new growth pinewood can start to show signs of rot or warping after twenty years. So just wondering if it might be worth the investment to try and look at, like, salvage wood yards and try and you know?

Because if they're being custom milled anyway from pine, it might be worthwhile to look into, you know, probably a more expensive option, but a window that might last last significantly longer for for your for the money that you're spending. Just an idea. Did did you all consider that, you know, looking for, like, salvaged wood suppliers?

Oh, we haven't looked into that option yet because because of the expense. And then even the pine wood itself, the window is significant expensive Yeah. For the project. So the budget has been blown by now.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Just some food for thought. Because when you think about, you know, the total amount of money, if it's, you know, maybe significantly more expensive, but you're gonna get a lot longer value out of those windows. Correct.

Yeah. We would we would, but the budget, you know, kinda constrained by now.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

I'm of the mindset that I'm pretty similar to the chair here that if I'm okay with the other windows with the condition that these two leaded windows are duplicated. I feel like those are showpieces. They really speak to the character of the house. And considering all the historic properties around it, I think that would keep the fabric intact for the neighborhood if we at least duplicated these two leaded windows. That's my opinion on that.

I wanted to add I I agree with that. I went to books in middle school in in my teens, and that's that's an area where if you live somewhere past Monroe and El Camino, this this that's a corner that you would always see. And and to have a change in that specific

property,

it it it does stand out, the the change. And if it's not preserved, it does stand out. And I I would recommend maybe those specific corners. I mean, understand that there's, like, damage and, you know, extra work to go beyond with what the budget might be. But if there's a way to look into that, I I echo commissioner Warga Smith and and the chair.

Questions. Those point that you guys make very valid. You know, the corners should be preserved. But in the meantime, is it possible if we can replace the rest of windows because of the season raining or all those all those stuff? Can we order and replace the rest of them and then try to custom make the corner that replicate the previous version?

So I think this is a a good question for staff. It's like because it would take those two specific windows out of scope from what we're taking talking about right now because we wouldn't know what they're gonna be replacing it with if we're if we're look if they said to look for a vendor that can replicate the windows at the moment. So, like, how would we process this particular application?

In that instance, are you asking that HLC would like to see those those two?

As, like, a probably as a separate item because, like, we don't have a proposal of, like, how to go replace it. Mhmm. Because we're definitely, like, we're we're not okay with the type c window going into the into that those two corner windows at the moment.

So we could remove the two from the scope. Mhmm. This is scheduled for DRH next week because they're, you know, anxious to do the work. Mhmm. So we could remove those two from the scope and then maybe charge them a reduced fee to come back because it does take staff time for us to come back here to have you guys approve those two.

Okay.

It's tough because I don't wanna charge for a whole additional permit.

No. I was thinking that

gonna be additional time for us. Alternatively, we could scrap the DRH and continue this item. And then we'll we would only have to charge for the renoticing because we've already noticed for DRH, if that

makes sense. Then they wouldn't be able to move forward to work because of the DRH. Correct. Okay. So

if we went that route, they would still have to come back here, show you those two, get approval for all of them, and then reschedule for DRH.

And, like, I was trying to see like, could we do something like like, a condition of approval of recommendation for approval would be for like, the other windows are okay, but these ones, we need to have a replication, but, like, staff has a check that

Yeah. And that could be your recommendation. So keep in mind, you are recommend recommending body to DRH. Yeah. So, alternatively, if they don't agree with this recommendation, we could move forward to DRH, and it would be

up to the DRH to deal with. Okay.

So in that scenario, we could potentially be very prescriptive about what we would ask to have in these windows.

Consumer disregard. And That's my problem with it. If can disregard our recommendation, then we wouldn't get the replacement properly.

So the continuance, the applicant would also, I guess, technically have to agree to that they would be working toward this because if they're not, there's no need to continue item.

Yeah. I think if you put in a condition of approval with these two windows at the end, the final inspection, we have to show this in order to pass all the inspection. That would be much beneficial for us right now so we can, you know, go ahead and replace the rest of the windows while waiting for these two.

That's why that's why I'm trying to weigh all the options, like, you know, operationally, how is this gonna work? Like, I wanna make sure that we're not charging you too much to, like, to do all this stuff and, like, have to come back or wait for the work and too much. Because I I mean, because of the season and stuff, like, these things needs to get done. Like, these two windows are really it's actually a pretty big deal for us. That's why we're really hesitant of, like, handing this over.

Basically, it's a fix on the top and then Mhmm. Some

Yeah. I mean, the reality is custom Windows are about to be Yeah.

What do you think?

I mean, the argument that it that there's a pressure to do it now to get it in during winter doesn't hold up with custom win.

So if we were to recommend to, like, continue an item and if you do agree to it, how soon can you find out if you can get this particular format replicated from a vendor that can do this.

Gonna go search, tomorrow, send out requests for other vendors around the areas and, see if, you know, they can, replicate this kind of window and then, come back to somewhere as well for that. Another thing we can do is just revise the drawings to replicate this window in the meantime. Maybe you guys can, you know, approve with the conditions, then we'll search and then send the specification to Summer.

Is that something that would work if it's revised to say, like, it's not gonna be a type c, it's going to be drawn to Out of type. This style.

Yeah. That works. If it's if the applicant's amenable to it, we can add that as a condition of approval, and we'll present that, the revised plans next week at DRH.

And then for for sign off, it has to match the the updated plans.

Yeah. So we would still need to sign off the building permit. Planning would still need to sign off the building permit. Right. So, yes, we would do the conformance review at that time.

Okay. K. Sounds okay.

Staff, do you have a list of, you know, custom window shops that maybe could be helpful for the owner? Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. It's on Google Maps too if they need to pull it up. Leaded glass.

No color.

There's no color.

Color. One

one fixed, one leaded.

Unfixed, one single.

I think this top part is colored up here. No? It's a blankie.

Is that a blankie? I think it was.

100%. Because I used

to walk by it a lot.

Oh, no. No. I put

Yeah. So what

so one fixed window on top and then window up and down on the bottom, or you want

choo choo? One I hear a question. Maybe we can talk and answer it for you. So

that's less complicated than I thought because I thought it was colored. So we're just looking to have the top portion leaded made of leaded glass in that configuration.

Oh, it was it was like a beach towel, if I remember correctly, that was behind there. Yeah. That's yeah. Yeah. Because if you go I know. Don't play with.

Detail. You can start. Be literal.

So I went to Google Maps, and, like, I kinda post positioned myself in the crosswalk, and you can see the the Monroe side.

Clear there. Right?

Yeah. On the Monroe side, it's clear.

Okay. Cool.

This is the Monroe side up here on screen. Yeah. There you go. That's as far as I can zoom in, though.

Yeah. Thank you. That's. And it's just like a lattice. Yes. Good fix fix with the lattice work and then

some white double hung. Was stationary.

Is it stationary?

I believe it was stationary. Believe it was stationary. Yeah. I think what I

Do you remember if you can open that window? Like, it was designed to open regardless if you could have opened it. It's fixed windows. Okay. It's just two panes. So it's a design pane on top and then fixed. Yeah. Right. But it's designed to open, though. Okay.

The bottom.

The bottom part. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the sashes are in there, you should enable to. Yeah. Because it it should have, like, counterweight in it.

We mentioned colors of glass, and I know this is an aside, but I noted low e glass in the new windows and non low e glass in the others. In whichever direction we go with color of glass, they should match. You don't want the wished into below e upstairs and a transparent glass with no tint downstairs. Does the commission wanna give any thought to whether we should guide for the custom windows? OE glass, old school clear glass.

So you're better at this than I am. What's the difference?

It's a coating reflective to help reducing thermal solar gain, basically. More energy efficient window.

I think for whichever way it goes, it should all be the same. It's uniform. Right? So you're seeing a difference in the quotes?

Doesn't it say on the quote that it includes that coating?

I'm talking about the window we have on screen right now. Well, either of them. Right? The upstairs is blue, and the downstairs is clear because they have to make it out of cut glass. And upstairs is a manufactured unit. They're gonna have blue windows upstairs and transparent windows downstairs.

Gotcha. Because they were to make one to match the style for the downstairs windows. We should ask if they can make it in the same color in the glass. Okay. So so so it's uniform because we're no longer having clear windows upstairs with the with what is being proposed today. Okay.

It says insulated sun resistant, annealed glass, neat protective film, silver space. So I'm assuming that's the keep the sun out.

Right? Exactly. They have a reflection colored tint. As they reflect, they tint. And I think if we're looking at leaded glass, cut glass, they may not be able to use that type of glass, especially annealing, and it shatters.

So, like, what would be acceptable? Like, I think having, say, the shape of it, like, you know, having a fixed pane on top and then the movable panes, like, under, like, the one third and two third. I think that's, like, the proportion that we're looking at. Then the glass might be it's gonna be different. Is that gonna be okay?

Your your point is that you think that the leaded area in the large pane would have different tints? Or

I mean, ideally, we'd have the same tints. Right? But, like, I don't know if they can do the same pattern tinted glass, like, on the small pane.

I'm pretty I'm pretty sure it's fragile glass, but it's it's baked and and it shattered. Right. So so maybe the guidance would be that that the design that comes back has glass for the stairs and glass for the downstairs that has the same tint or reflectivity. Yeah.

Then would that be different from the other if we if we're going clear upstairs, clear downstairs, just on that corner, that would be different for the other ones around the house.

Wouldn't want that. Right? Because then then we expand the problem from that front corner to the To

everything else. Okay.

So then perhaps the guidance would be that all upstairs windows, downstairs windows use the same colors, same types of glass, and you probably find that the person making the custom corner window gives you the glass that they can use first.

Do you mind coming up to the mic?

Like, what I say, the the next co cycle, the energy is gonna be increased. But I think low e class would be the way to go and consistent throughout the building.

I I have comments on that, but it's it's not relevant.

Is where you like, if we recommend one way or the other for those corner downstairs, if they're gonna find a vendor that would be able to produce that particular product that would fit, like, our specification, like, our guidance is, and if they have, like, the materials, like, to to do it properly.

Hearing you rightly that finding a vendor might be tricky.

Yeah. I'm you're not wrong, like, about having the the same colors. And so I'm just, like, saying I'm not sure if there's a vendor out there that would produce a window in that format that we're asking for with the, like, with the tinting to make a uniform, stairs and downstairs. I'm not saying no, but, like, I'm just saying, what does that mean to, like, our recommendation at that point? They need to have a have that as a sign off.

I I'm not a fan of the way the low e glass looks in the historic home. I would prefer clear. That was just something we could give as guidance. Curious if the other commissioners have a

As

long as it's consistent, I think I'm okay with it. But if one those two look completely different from the rest of them, then it my OCD tendency as I'm driving by would be like, oh. You know? So I think consistency is important. It's not standing out like a sore thumb.

Think we have some opinions on that piece. Are there any other things that were we haven't discussed? I know we're just talking about glass and then format of those two windows. Are they anything else commissioners have comments on on the other than those points? Because I wanna make sure I wanna make sure we actually cover everything we wanna cover.

So it's just those two windows that we have, you know, issues with?

Basically. Yeah.

Okay.

Like, I hear your concern about, like, the type of wood, but, like, having them as wood is already a win.

Yeah. That's true. I agree. I agree. I think, you know, historic properties do it better with clearer glass. But I understand with the low e coating, there will probably be some energy savings, you know, for the owner. And this is already a pretty expensive venture to replace all the windows. I think I'm okay with it as long as it's consistent and they don't stand out, you know, being different than the other windows in the home.

Yeah. I I agree with with consistency that that's important. Really, that's that's, like, the main concern that it wouldn't stick out and to see the the difference in that in that corner. And and so, yeah, I I agree with the consistency.

Yeah. I just read the stuff. It calls for the consistency according to the city code, so I'll be okay if the recommendation is followed thoroughly.

I definitely support the homeowner's desire to put siding or or trim and windows and sashes back the way they were. Thanks for coming back and looking to do it properly. Thank you. I do appreciate, you know, the way we can get it get it resolved.

I really appreciate that as well. Believe in that people come here to fight us about that, but, like, very happy that you guys are coming in with this recommendation.

I I kinda have less of a comment, more of a question, and this might go to staff. But I'm wondering why the applicant wasn't aware of the windows prior to making some adjustments. Is there a way we can notify them, like, where city can city staff can notify, or how do we get ahead of that?

It's it's a lot of, like, public education. That's part of the stuff that we've been talking about Mhmm. Unlike what's available and stuff like that. But yeah. Yeah. In in this instance, it definitely has stop work order Yeah. Kind of pretty much immediately once it was seen to be done. So

So in addition to what the commissioner said that there's a note that neighborhood notice was distributed to all the neighbors. So is there any response on that? Or

Sorry. Response to which part?

It was in neighborhood notice what distributed for this alteration.

Yeah. Also.

Staff did not receive any comments.

We don't have any comments on it, the neighbors. It's like I'm, like, trying to figure out, like, which part of the quote it's saying whether they're matching it up to the vendors' website and what it looks like. I'm looking at the vendor site on the on the glass. This is what is proposed as sun resis, low e, insulated glass. What would be considered the glass?

It's, like, not have the coating at all.

Yeah. No coating. I think if you you drive past a modern home, the window kinda looks reflective, and you see that from an angle. And and so without that, you get this more old school look where something like the house is wearing wearing sunglasses.

It would

be so it would look more like the glass at the restaurant across the street.

Like what? Going through that tinted, but but that's not glowy. It's not got that reflection coat coat.

I'm saying, like, if it has the tinting mean, I if it has the coating on it, it would have that reflection quality.

Reflective and.

Solar bluish? I mean, I think, like, at this point, I I would actually recommend just, like, playing with your glasses thing because that will be closer to the house that was originally. And I think, like, with the recommendation that we're making with the with the two big glass on the bottom of the stairs, I think that with the two fixed windows, it would be easier to match style because I think those two should be clear glass. It's fixed. Sorry.

You you said fixed. Are we gonna talk about a search that moves or fixed in the recommendation?

Sorry. Like, it's the the two windows on the bottom, like, with the fix on top and movable on the bottom. Right? Those those two really should match.

Agree.

Yeah.

Completely. If we're going back to where we were, they they would have matched.

Somebody's drafting a motion.

The bullets feel like should draft that motion. So far, I have to restore the picture windows and let it glass to match the original for window twelve and thirteen. The upper leaded glass be fixed and the lower sash be movable. The glass used in all upstairs and downstairs windows should all be matching intent and reflectivity to give a consistent and harmonious look. Do we want to specify?

You mean specify recommend transparent? That's okay with the commission. It's up for discussion. The glass itself, like, we were looking at the quote, and there's the a coating being proposed on it for reflection. And we're thinking about recommending to not have that coating because it does give, like, a little bit a bluish tint reflection.

Does this vendor even make that kind of glass without a coating?

Yeah. Coating's extra. Oh,

okay.

And then

for the, you know, windows efficiencies, like, I've looked at it. A lot of times, it's actually not the glass. It's actually the how tight the trims are and, like, if it's insulated glass at the first place. So, like, the tint itself actually doesn't matter as much with the with energy efficiency. I think that was a huge discussion in my household.

Mhmm. Okay. Good to know.

We borrowed the heat gun.

Sure. We heard about clear glass and versus low heat glass. Mhmm. So if we do if we would do the clear glass, then the type 24, we're not gonna be meeting that code. Are we okay with that? Or

Is there a code requirement?

Currently, the title 24 is the one that govern all of the NG codes for all the buildings. And then if we replace the window with the clear glass, then the title 24 report gonna be scrapped.

Think that's a more question for staff.

Oh, 24.

You can confirm with our building division. Sorry. We're not over on title 24.

I'm doing a search.

And the applicant's right that they have changed recently, and I don't know whether it's applicable here on a new on a on a historic home or not. You can not be title 24 compliant. I think planning.

Yeah. Historic building code may have an exception. There we can confirm.

I just did a quick search on Google. It says properties on the historic resources inventory in Santa Clara County are generally not exempt from California's title 24 building energy efficiency standards. California title 24 is a statewide code that applies to all new construction additions and major alterations to existing buildings, including those in Santa Clara County. The primary exemption related to historic buildings applies only if compliance with the energy code would specifically, in quotes, alter the historic character of the property, which is determined on a project by project basis during the permitting and environmental review process. I think, you know, we'd have to claim that it would, like, significantly alter the historic character in the property.

You said it was what was the three conditions? Like, rent a new new new construction?

Conditions and major alterations to existing buildings.

So I don't know if this consists of major alteration.

Yeah. I don't know. It's a good question.

It's being a major alteration because it like, technically, you're not cutting to the main building swapping. Search

right now. Yeah. That's a good question. I don't know.

You could also argue that blue windows would significantly alter the historic look of this home.

That's true.

Last specifications and request to see if the manufacturer can produce the low heat blast that would be, you know, clear or would, prevent the the greenish in the in the in the glass. Can that. We could request, see if they have, that kind of glass.

K.

That that was still me to have a '20 four, but, like, it wouldn't alter the look.

It might be better just try and reasons why you don't mind that might make things easier.

Maybe that's the that would be a recommendation as well to see if we can get if that can be an exemption to not have this glass, right, as a primary recommendation. If that's not possible, then it's checking in with the manufacturer to see if they can get the glass as clear as possible.

Maybe a question for staff. Did this window change fall into the significant alteration category?

I think it was a culmination of everything. The number of windows proposed for change, the work without permits.

Just a clarifying question. This was a major SPA permit, not a minor SPA permit to change the windows?

Correct. Minor does not require referral to HLC. Okay. Thank you.

It's a scope of work. It's so much. It's a lot. Thank you for bearing with us, by the way. Like, this thank you. Just wanna say. This is a lot to to process through. Another discussion. So okay. Are you drafting?

I've put four bullets for my possible recommend my my what's just jumped out of my head? Recommendations for for the approval or advancement with the the windows be exempt from title 24 compliance. It's low e tinted glass with significantly alter the historic property, make that the fabric of it. And then the three I've covered already specifying the windows in question, the upper and lower construction, and the glass and all upstairs and downstairs be all matching with a clear tint and reflectivity to give a consistent and harmonious

look. Mhmm.

Probably have to send the write up to staff. Make sure we actually have It's all matching. I don't know if you caught, like, all those stuff that

I I can cover it one more time unless there's any friendly amendments. What kind of motion a

formal motion, we can read read it back to you.

Thank you. What sort of motion are we supporting here? Continuance with conditions?

So are you making a motion now? Or are we

No.

I'm asking what what does the committee believe we should take forward?

I think for submitting a vote, I like the conditions that you have put in place. I'm curious if there are any amendments that any of the commissioners are interested in adding, subtracting, modifying to what's been said already, and we may have to have you read it out again to us on what the conditions are. And then if we're okay with all that, we can make one of us can make a motion.

I just wanted to mention for the wording for the exemption to title 24, I think, like, the verbiage that they use is, like, it would alter the historic character. So those might be some, you know, buzzwords.

On the Google last week. Fine.

Thank you.

Commissioner Sasa, where are you citing that?

Google artificial intelligence. Just, yeah, Google search.

Okay. It's just that it's 24 exemptions. Yeah?

Yeah. I just did a search for our HRA properties in Santa Clara County exempt from title 24.

Please seeking friendly amendments then. So the first bullet is the title twenty four one. The second bullet is the two specifics windows. The third bullet is the leaded lower sash. And the fourth bullet is the color of the glass. I

think those are the main things that I was thinking. So go ahead and making the motion.

Looking for clarity. Are we are we making a motion to continue or a motion to approve with conditions?

I was thinking, like, it'll probably be There'll be a proof of conditions. Right? I think the particularly, the drawing has to be updated to reflect the two windows so that when the sign off comes, it has to has to match the drawings. There are conditions, like, staff can take care of over counter, like, what the drawing is supposed to look like for those two lower windows. So I trust that.

And then the rest of your recommendations on that list. Yep. If we were to make a motion.

I'm ready to make a motion. Does anybody have any more comments? Find anything from your search.

No. I think the recommendation is to uni So, like, if the people we need for those two windows are are clear, then the recommendation would be clear for all of them.

So this is a big

Right? Agree. And they probably all had wavy glass before the work started.

It's two. Same.

Think at your point earlier where where you talked about consistent harmonious look resonated with me, and I believe that clear throughout creates that. Air sealing is is a 100 times more important than than So new windows will be air sealed really well. It stops air moving, and that's that that gives you all of the work.

The They're gonna be newly fabricated too, so they should be energy efficient with tight. Of yeah. With it being airtight.

The long pole will be the rest of the house, siding, floors, doors. Tint solo game. So I'm Exactly. Exactly.

Right. It's like I'm looking at the vendor. It had it's on the quote. This was what it was. So there's there's a more reflective quality. There's, like, another one where it's, like, more through. There are a couple other ones.

Say

That's what I was asking. Be lot more reflective and, like, it it well, I was saying there's a a little bit more of a blue hue to that glass as well, so it'll be a little bit different.

Have you seen your office building? They kinda look a bit blue.

A bit of green.

Yeah. That's that's an older style. Like, try past the modern office, they're kinda bluish green. You know?

Not Wilson's, but maybe, like, at a a different building, like like like an office building, usually. I think those are, like, a little bit more extreme examples after reflection, but, you know, I mean, point still stands. Yeah. We've been past the

place on Harrison Street, and I wanna completely do that. They took out the wood windows and put in metal. Those ones, if you if you didn't pass there at all recently since they okay. I'd like to make a motion.

Please do.

Motion that we approve, start recommendation with the following conditions. We recommend that the windows be exempt from title 24 compliance, low e, and tinted glass would significantly alter the historic character of the property. To restore the picture windows and leaded glass to match the original for windows twelve and thirteen. The upper leaded glass be fixed and the lower sash be movable.

When you

say fixed, you mean, like, duplicated, the leaded glass?

Is that the friendly amendment to have it replicating the previous look?

I put request to restore the picture windows and leaded glass to match the original. Does that cover what you're

One of them. Yeah.

That was

the second bullet. Identical. Okay. To match. Okay. Can we rephrase the second bullet from to match to to be identical? Is that okay? And then fourth bullet, the glass used in all upstairs and downstairs. Windows should be all matching with a clear tint and reflectivity to give a consistent and harmonious look. Drawing be updated with the new windows and that they match the approval condition.

Any friendly amendments?

The motion on the floor. Second what commissioner Stocks just said.

So I have a second. I'll ask. Okay. Those who are in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye.

Aye.

You know, I miss one absence, so motion passes with the conditions. Thank you. Thank you for bearing with us. Windows are our thing. So, like, thank you. So I think that's it. Right? And then you would be in contact to kinda talk about next steps. Alright. Thank you.

Thanks for bearing with us. Thank you.

Thank you. If you look at the development review. Okay. Yeah. So that's our only item. Going through my script. Alright. So, yeah, we're actually at staff report already.

Commissioner Socks, would you mind emailing me your document that you had every yeah. So we can just double check.

No worries.

Haven't been here long enough. This is actually one of the easier ones

for

for something like this. It is just windows, by the way. We're we're sticklers around windows.

Wait till you get a parkour. Room is full, and there's posters, signs, pins, badges.

Mhmm. That was fun times. Very,

very organized. Swimming pool. Swimming pool that looks around there.

Alright. Yeah. Okay.

Where's staff report? Yes.

I just had two updates. One regarding the Tiburcio Vasquez gravesite. I did reach out to city historian Lori Garcia. She agreed to write something a little bit more formal and detailed for the commission's review before you decide if you wanna move forward with identifying that as a a historic resource and putting it on the inventory or moving forward with that process. She said she's quite busy with the home tours, but should be able to work on it later this month.

So I hope to have an update for you in the New Year. Second, we do not have any development items for January, so that meeting will be canceled. Just touch and go on that last one. I thought you might continue it, but since you didn't, January meeting will be canceled.

And tomorrow, I'm just gonna go bug Laurie on Saturday while I see her. Like, maybe I'll write the thing. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Oh, I think I might drop in on that. I think I might drop in on that. Nice.

You're coming to the dinner?

Or just to I because I know that the tour is going on.

So

Yeah. It's a Saturday, and it's it's Friday Friday night and Saturday.

Ah, okay.

And then there's a, actually, like, a home tour dinner, like, at the

I might actually I think I might.

I can send you the details.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I recommend the evening slot because everyone's got their Christmas decks up, and it's really nice.

Yeah. Tomorrow night is gonna be really nice. Yeah.

We we gotta step it up.

Okay. Hey, Chelsea. I mean, we're we like, bunch of us got roped in as docents, but, you know, we're all voluntold. So alright. Okay. Cool. Sorry. Rebecca, is there anything else on staff report? No. That was

it for me. Thank you. Thank you.

Commissioner reports. For subcommittees, I know for banners, our our polls have been usurped for the year. Yeah.

I, yeah. As you noticed, they're all on

Saw the mayor's video. Happy holidays. Yeah.

Yeah. I was curious about alternatives such as the Franklin downtown area. Maybe we can go down around the old quad area. Or maybe even the Civic Center right out here, they have sold through history banners that we temporarily replaced with some of our banners just so that, you know, we don't break with tradition that we started to continue with the banner program. We'll see what they say about that. Also wanna know what's facts, if there was a difference between the Alpina's facts and Franklin Square or the Civic Center. Okay. That's my

Thank you. I think it would be nice to have it at Franklin Square if we can do it. And if it's, like, the the same format, it's just because think the last couple of weekends I've been down there, it's been a lot of people strolling around. So, like, we're getting a lot of activation down there. It would be kinda cool to have it. Yeah. I know. Because a lot of it is just, like, right around there too. So it's like, what is this? That's what the banners are really good for. Cool. Thank you. Board and committee, Santa Clara Arts and Historic Consortium.

I'm gonna update. They're sort of on hiatus. Okay.

Historic Preservation Society.

The historic home tour is happening. Sunday is photos with Santa Claus. So bring your family. Of the three, it's free. You get to tour the house and refreshments and cookies in the barn, and the kids can play on the lawn. It's really a nice family. 1889 Market Street.

Oak Lawn Residence Association. All of us are volunteering for the home tour. So I'll see all you all you guys tomorrow or on Saturday. That's, like, the main thing. Development review hearing, if you have anything specific to talk about, probably get when we come back, we'll hear about this item because they're gonna do going there. Bart, high high speed row, BCABRT?

We just had a meeting yesterday in Downtown San Jose. 488 Almaden Building is their new headquarters. It's a nice building. I thought that lot of San Jose. Seems like all the CWGs were present there with different patients.

And they did announce that they're switching out with another company for the outreach, So we had to say goodbye to our old team. The other group are still there, like Erica and Brent. That was the major announcement. They handed out some tickets to the. Socializing cookies and, you know, coffee. It's nice.

Oh, Camille Real specific plan community. Nothing there at the moment.

One exciting item, we are releasing the edit draft environmental impact report next Friday. So that's an important step to get this in front of council early in the New Year. So

looking forward to that. Okay. Downtown Precise Plan?

I think we're meeting again in January. They haven't sent out the invite. The last time we met with them was basically to lay down kind of, like, the ground rules on how we'll proceed moving forward. I covered in our last report. So I'm looking forward to what they come back with as far as steps to move forward.

Awesome. Sankler Stationery Task Force. We had a super exciting meeting this last meeting, unexpectedly so. We actually had a VTA came in to do a presentation, And and, also, there are two other items because we're updating the scope of the stationary like, of the of the station area. So, previously, we didn't have the BART station area included.

So the proposal is to actually include that area now. Part of it is also a push from, VTA. It's has scrapped a plan of doing the the parking structure because of cost. So the last time we actually looked at this, they actually changed it to surface parking, just paved parking. But in the very last meeting that we had, they're actually proposing putting housing on the on that spot as well.

Some of our members are very excited about this because they've been pushing for it for a very long time. This is something that that is finally being considered by BCA. So, you know, you can put housing or, a mixed use of housing and, like, a office building and then putting a parking structure underneath for both the the buildings and also for for BART as well for transit. So that's actually really exciting to to think about to have that density. So this is also really interesting for a calculation for, like, the density that we need in the transit station.

So bad numbers. What was the SB that we had to adhere adhere to? SB 79. SB 79 is, like, in place now. We actually have to have a very high density housing around any high was it high speed transit air transit area, so we have to have that.

With being being that the VTA lot is smack in the middle of that, it will actually kinda help us add to the calculations of the of the density in the area. So it gives us, like, a little bit more flexibility on, like, how we can move the pieces around instead of having to move it kinda spread out. Because we we are running into, like, a lot of restrictions because we can't build high because we're right next to the airport. So we do have height restrictions and stuff, so there's only so much density we can do, within the the area. So it was a it was a huge discussion, but, like, it was super exciting to to kinda see that change in position.

What else am I missing? This is going to council on the sixteenth, if I remember correctly. The study session?

Small update there. We did get bumped from the sixteenth meeting. We're trying, the clerk's office is pulling for alternative dates in December. If that doesn't work out, unfortunately, we may be bumped to January.

Okay. That's fine. I think that's the only date I can make it because I'm gonna be out of town after that after the twentieth, just so you know.

What was I gonna say? Yes. We will send an email out to the task force with the information on the new date.

Okay.

Because the director is very adamant that I attend. So it's cool. That's that's where we're at. So we're kinda waiting to kinda present that to have that presented to the council, and then we'll kinda come back with if there's any alterations that we need to make on the on the plan recommendation. Then we gotta start thinking about EIR. That's where we're at for that. That's it. That's all I have. Boards and committee reports. Is there any other questions, comments, announcements? To home tour? There's a holiday train coming through on

I think

it is I think it's the thirteenth. So the holiday train is weird this year. You you kinda have to ride it, and it doesn't really stop anywhere, but the the train

Stop it.

No. It's like San Jose. Yeah. There's just themed and stuff. Okay. But my point that's relevant to us is the the the depot is gonna be open. They're they're gonna have, like, hot chocolate and and visits and all that stuff and and music. So, please go visit our depot. But so that's that's sad. I forgot to announce that as part of okra because it asked me to do that. So that's it. I have a

question about the Yeah. So it's not like under our review at all.

It is a landmark. It's nationally listed.

Oh, we don't have input for

It's interesting. They have a cove an operating covenant with the state, I believe.

Yeah.

And several of the historic depots are all part of the covenant.

So We wanted to make It's sad that there's not enough They have the landmark in the old block. That is our a little layout. Oh, I think

that's I think that's a really interesting point. I think this is something we can discuss with the with the folks over at Depot to see if they want to add more locally. It doesn't take you to the landmark. Yeah. No. We should talk to Michael. Absolutely.

Yeah. Think that context should be added mentioning Santa Clara.

Yeah. Yeah. That would be pretty cool. Okay. I'll talk to Michael.

That's why I was curious why we didn't have any review over.

Yeah. It's kinda interesting, like, you know, when you're looking at the small train sets and the, you know, the sceneries and stuff like that, they're just like each individual working on a specific part of scenery. They just kinda have something, and they put it in together with the with the model railroads. Generally, isn't, a full record representation of a specific place, but it would be kinda cool if they can actually replicate some of those

stuff Mhmm.

That are yeah. Yeah.

The Adobe.

The Adobe. The Adobe. Exactly. There's important We we need to bring that up to discussion again. Yeah. That's important. Thank you for a reminder. So, anyway, do I have a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn. Thank you.

To adjourn.

Yeah. Second. Do those who are in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Unanimous when absence, we are adjourned at 07:45. Thank you. We'll see you in February.