Historical & Landmarks Commission - Regular Meeting

Elementary school moment then.

Cool. It is Thursday, 03/05/2026, 06:07PM. I will call the Historic Landmarks Commission meeting, Santa Clara, and order. First order of business is roll call. I know it's a roll. Commissioner Stotts? Here. Commissioner Harvey Smith? Here. Commissioner Romano? Here. Commissioner Seltzer? Here. Commissioner Encirate? Here. Commissioner Morschnie? Here. Thank you. And thank you, Chair Longachan. We are all present.

I'm cool.

First item on here is continuance and exceptions. This part of the meeting allows for applicants, members of the public, or other interested parties to request an item to be continued without hearing or withdrawn or taken out of order. So do we have any members of the public or participant of the meeting applicants or any audience member that would like, you know, continue the

item or any subject or anything?

Let's see any see any additional attendees online either. Seeing none, we will move forward. Next item is consent calendar.

Oh, stop. Stable, grandma. Yeah.

The following procedures for consent calendar. Procedure for a consent calendar is as follows. Consent calendar items may be enacted, approved, or adopted by one motion unless requested to be removed by anyone for discussion or explanation. If any members of the historical Landmark Commission staff, applicant or a member of the public wishes to comment on a consent calendar item, like the items we heard on a regular agenda, make this request now. The items listed on a consent calendar of associate file number constitute public hearing item.

So we have one item on consent calendar tonight. It is the minutes of the Historical and Landmark's Commission meeting minutes for 12/04/2025. Are there any questions, comments, would like to pull it for discussion, any corrections or motion to approve?

Motion to approve the meeting minutes to send the floor.

Thank you. Do I have a second? Second. Oh. Oh, fight. Okay. Those who are in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed and one abstention. Unanimous one abstain. Thank you. Alright. Next item, we have public presentations. Are there any members of the public that would like to briefly address the commission on any items that are not on the agenda tonight? This is a place where we can hear something that's not on the agenda tonight, and we cannot action on them, but we'll we would we can take a little bit of time to to listen.

Actually yeah.

Oh, I've got something. Come on up.

Well, hello, commissioners.

This is I know. Yes. It's One

thought I had, and it came through a discussion with one of you, was about when people rip windows out, and maybe they do it illegally in a historic resource, and you ask to have them put it back, oftentimes you'll buy a new window made by Marvin. You can Marvin actually sells sashes that will go in a pull lead system. Mhmm. But the one thing, and this is the challenge, and it's sort of my pet peeve with modern wood windows, is they don't have the glazing k? Now the glazing putty is glass goes into the the sash, and then the glazing putty's on the outside, and it's beveled or angled, and it sheds the water and everything.

And the beauty of that is you don't get a rot point at so modern window, they'll put a stop in. So what it is is they put the the glass in, and then they put a piece of wood instead of glazing Glazing putty is I wouldn't say it's it's it's like linseed oil traditionally, and then I forget what else, but it it it's it it can be pliable at first, and then it somewhat hardens. So the problem with when they do the wood stopped ones, usually, it has some detail on it, and it can rot. Okay? So long term, that's why I really push to have a a sash made with the glass and the putty.

It it's it can be done. I've done it. I've I've resized windows from salvage yards that are larger with the old material, and then have the putty put in, even old glazing, reshaped. So I just wanted to share that with you that that type of thing, it's not like a huge ask. Possible. It's very doable. But it's more about preservation long term because on these old houses, some of us have windows that are over a 150 a 150 years old on on this house you'll be seeing. Or is it longer? No. A 100, holding my brain.

I was in a one meeting last night. A 170? 170. 170, sorry. So, but the modern ones, even with the dual glazing, that can rot a lot quicker, because generally people aren't gonna maintain that. That one little area becomes a real big problem. So I just wanted to share that with you. K?

Thank you. Yeah.

K. Okay. I

have a little issue with camera, but I think they will rip.

Watching those two bags. Like a ghost.

I know. We'll figure it out. Eventually. Okay. So we're done with the public presentation item, so we'll go to public hearing.

So we're gonna start with item two twenty six sixty eight, public hearing with recommendation on significant property alteration and architectural review, PLN 2500524 for approximately 481 square foot 1st Floor addition and approximately 233 square foot 2nd Floor addition to an existing two story single family residence for the property on historical resource inventory located at 1184 Washington Street. CEQA says except for CEQA for section fifteen three thirty two infill development project, and fifteen three thirty one, historical resource restoration rehabilitation. So so so and this over is set.

Thank you, chair Lang. I wanted to introduce associate planner, Tracy Tam. I don't think she's been to the commission before, so she'll be presenting this item at 1184 Washington.

Thank you. The back is set.

Face the cam. Associated planner for the item tonight. So the request before you tonight is a significant property alteration architecture review permit. Essentially, it's to allow for an approximate 480 square foot addition to the 1st Floor and approximately 230 square foot addition. 2nd Floor, for a single family residence that's on historic resource inventory.

As noted on your report, it's also a property. So the existing project site is roughly at the intersection of Fremont and Washington. It's one property removed. It's about 10,095 square feet in size. As you see in image there, most of the properties surrounding the subject site are residential.

Sort of the light yellow color is all r one six l, which is a typical same family detached zoning district. The property just to the south is zoned r three, on-site with higher density. But for the most part, the property is located primarily residential area with the exception of the property along Benton. So this is the proposed rear elevation. The area is kind of noted in the reddish sort of color or areas of change. I do wanna draw attention. It's not highlighted, but these two windows in the rear.

I don't know if you

can see my mouse. It's kinda tiny. But these two windows here, they are existing. They're gonna be realigned slightly. So they exist on this elevation, but they're just going to be shifted.

So that is part of it as well. So you'll notice the Ground Floor addition here, which will be a primary bedroom and then an Upper Floor addition noting that the roofline for the 2nd Story addition does vary from the existing roofline. And then lastly, the doors that are noted here, those will also be new. So this is the proposed site plan. What you're seeing also in that same red color is where the addition will be taking place.

You'll notice that the 1st Floor addition does protrude from the existing base of the house by about, I think it's two feet, but it's still meeting the sides of our apartments for the 1st Floor. The 2nd Floor addition, which you kind of see noticed here in a diagonal pattern. It is going to be set back about eight feet seven inches from the property line, and so our code does require a additional setback for 2nd Floors. And so there will be a minor modification that the dollar review officer will weigh in on for that reduced second story side step back. A lot of essence.

And so this is the proposed 1st Floor floor plan. So the area noted again in the red is where the addition will take place. This is kind of hard to see because this bar is in the way. I guess it's just reporting, so I can't move it. But the 1st Floor addition is going to be primarily a new primary bedroom, with the bathroom, closets, and there will also be a historic staircase that will be relocated, to this area.

And this is the proposed 2nd Floor addition. Most of the 2nd Floor, or at least for the addition, is dedicated to adding bathrooms, a laundry area, and then again relocating that historic staircase that I had mentioned earlier. So I mentioned earlier that the interior, the side setback for the 2nd Floor, the zoning code does require 10 feet. They are proposing eight feet seven inches, so minor would be required for the reduced setback for which staff is supportive of. The project is also required to be consistent with the single family and duplex design design guidelines, which were adopted by the city council in 2014.

For the most part, the project is compliant with the design guidelines with one exception noted on the screen. The design guidelines notes that the 2nd Floor area shall not exceed approximately 66% of the 1st Floor area. With the addition, the proposed 2nd Floor area is approximately 70% of the 1st Floor area. So it's exceeding it by about 4% or in other words, 75 square feet. And so to find compliance with the single family and duplex residential design guidelines, staff is recommending a condition of approval requiring a reduction in the 2nd Floor square footage to not exceed that 66%.

The project is found to be category exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act or CEQUA under the section one five three three two for infill development projects since it is a single family home and or in addition to a single family home and section fifteen thirty three one for historical resource restoration and rehabilitation. Staff recommends that the Historical and Landmarks Commission do find the project located at 1184 Washington Street. It was not going to destroy or have an otherwise significant adverse impact on the integrity of the historic property, and that the construction is compatible and recommend approval with the significant of the significant property alteration permit, architecture review, subject to the conditions and findings. And that concludes staff's

presentation. Presentation. There any quick questions for staff technical before I invite the applicant to speak for on the project?

Would you like to speak

with this? Sure. Hold on up.

Hello again. Hi. Nice to meet you, Tracy. I haven't

I know. We've talked, we haven't seen each other. And

Rebecca, hi. So excited to present this project to you. It's sort of the second phase. We worked on the Heritas initially that came for, yeah, came for you guys.

So

first, I wanna there was a mention. It was just maybe a misunderstanding. The on the rear of the house, the upper two windows are remaining. It's just that we're aligning the new door with the sides of it. That's what's happening. Yeah. So just just for clarification. So what are we trying to achieve here? Well, we're obviously trying to achieve the the preserving the historic integrity. They have four children, very active children.

So the goal was to have an agent placed master suite on the 1st Floor for long term and then have a bedroom for each kid upstairs. And you're split two and two boys and girls, so two bathrooms is what that's kind of the desire. And then with all their activities, having a laundry up there. We've gone around and around on this. It's been a little bit of a process.

It all kind of was focused around that winder stair. It's such a cool thing. Wanna preserve it, and we we both wanted to preserve it. But we tried to leave it in its current location, but it really made kind of a truncated, awkward kitchen, not kinda what people are looking for this day and age. More open kitchen, more an entertainment room.

So came up with an idea to to shift it over, and everything started to drop into place. Then then and it's not against staff. I've never come up with a 66%, because when I was on architectural committee or designing projects, honestly, I haven't really done many second stories that that triggered this. So it was an moment for me and a no crap moment just the same. But I wanna read you what it specifically says in the design guidelines so you can can say what I'm gonna say to you.

It's all related to second floor massing. We're when we do second stories, one, you wanna not make it so top heavy. You wanna preserve neighbors' rights, sun rights, privacy rights. And we oftentimes achieve privacy rights by having higher window sills at five feet, which we're doing here. So, you know, things evolve with the city, just like these old homes.

But what it specifically says in 2nd Floor massing, the area of the 2nd Floor should not exceed the common pattern of the neighborhood. For new second stories, in predominantly one story neighborhoods, the 2nd Floor area should not exceed approximately 66%. Why they said approximately? They wanna give you a little variability. But the thing that I wanna back up on is for new second stories in predominantly one story neighborhoods.

Now let's stop for a second. These second story houses were there were many. They were it's just a cold quad. Many of them sat on the corners. Then what happened is sometimes they tore them down, subdivided lots, and built smaller bungalows in the mid twenties, thirties, forties.

So this old house is one of the early Danes here. And so I would argue that this is not accurately applied. I don't think it applies to this specific parcel. It's I think the intent for this, and I've designed second stories on ranch style homes, is in when they says predominantly single story neighborhoods, those are ranch neighborhoods. They were done as tracts, large tracts, single story homes, hundreds of homes. When you saw the second story come in, which I was on the architecture committee for four year in the city, and it was the most contentious project,

You're under this crazy second story,

and you're protecting the other and and the the sad thing is the massing was the challenge, because they would stick it to one side, two

square walls. What I will say here

is this house and here's the other thing. This house, when it was built, had a hundred percent second floor ratio to first floor, as do many of the two story houses in Santa Clara. That means they were stacked. There wasn't a lot of attic that was pushing the second story in. And so this house starts at 100% in its inception, not 66%.

Then when the porches were covered or enclosed, it went down to 70%, 78%. K? Now, what we're proposing is 70%. Okay? We're not getting 66%, but what's interesting is, how could we achieve 66% if I thought it applied to this property, which I still don't think this the way it's written applies, we would have to add a 115 square feet to the 1st Floor, which isn't changing the massing on the 2nd Floor.

For the neighbor to the side and for anybody in the front, because you really can't see the 2nd Story from the front. You can if you're sort of to the side. And or we'd have to reduce separate floor by 74 square feet in addition. So when it says approximately 60 I I could focus on approximately 66%, and I I would argue we are approximate. If do we have good design?

Does the Secretary of Standards design review say it is a a compatible design? Yes. So, anyway, that's a little bit of the background on that to give you it's again, it may come up again. The other thing I wanna say is this is more of a one and a half story house because the 2nd Floor walls that sit under the overhang, the eaves, is five foot three or four, I forget. So if you think about it and you compare it to what most people build nowadays, they build at least eight foot plate heights on second floors.

So if I was adding a second floor to this, an eight foot plate height would create more mass. I did actually a volume calc. If it was eight foot plate height for this house, it would be slightly over in the volume when we were adding in terms of where we are now in terms of the five foot four to an eight foot, the volume of that to the 74 square feet times eight feet. Anyway, I've probably been too deep into the weeds on that for you, but you can always ask me questions about this. So I would, you know, and I don't know if you have the design guidelines, but that first paragraph, in terms of mousing, is super important for you to interpret.

And here's the interesting thing, and we're gonna get into actual the writing, and that says the 2nd Floor area should not exceed approximately 66% of the 1st Floor area, including the garage area. Now what's interesting, it doesn't say the garage has to be attached. So there's a garage or it's a porte cochere that was a garage sitting next

to it, and if you

count that, we are fine. And there's a there's a outbuilding in the back too. So if you anyway, I still think because it's meant to protect one story neighborhoods, again, that are as it says, predominantly single one story neighborhoods. So I would argue that the old quads started out as more two story neighborhoods. I mean, you know, or a lot of them are. So it's not predominantly one story, is what I would argue. Maybe more so now, because they tore big ones down. So that's a little bit of that. I can certainly ask her questions for that. I think we've done a good job preserving.

Julie had a slideshow to show you many of the second story houses that are a 100% or very close, So that's another thing. And regarding the second story addition not complying with the 10 foot required setback, it's tough. I was trying to fit everything in, and it's a game of inches. And and I'm appreciative that we this city does have the minor modification because it does give us some whirlpooling on things. The thing I'll say is that the existing house is actually closer than this requirement.

So I didn't feel like we were asking for too much, especially because the windows that face the neighbor are a lot lower on the closer wall, and the windows we're proposing are at the five foot cell height for privacy. K? So if you guys want the owners are here. Do they kinda ask you a quick Yeah. Absolutely. Yes.

Oh, is there variances that we're talking about here for a setback in a second story area, or is that is it minor modification variances that we're looking for here?

So minor oh, good. So minor mods are an administrative decision. It can allow for up to 25% of a deviation from a particular standard. And so they are at that 25%, and so it will be covered under a minor mod. We do have variances. Those are required. They require staff review and approval on planning commission, but that's for more than 25. So in this case, because they're after '25, we can do it at a staff level. But it's the type of variance

to step back and 25 on the same floor. They're both the same thing, or they're two different decisions?

Yes. Can the fluoraria be can the modification be used for fluoraria? I think it's like So

the modification can't be used for fluoraria because the fluoraria

is a guideline.

It's a guideline versus a development standard. Just to be clear. Yeah. Oh, the last thing, there was one more thing I was gonna say. Oh, what's super important is that this project then gets shepherded to development review hearing, correct, after this? So your weighing in on these items are super important, I think, to send a message. If you believe that the interpretation that I've presented makes sense, again, you can I can pass this around? I don't know if you have it pulled up. It's super important. I I again, I don't think the way it's being interpreted by staff it's not against that.

I just I disagree with it, and it by its by reading it. So, anyway, go ahead, Julie.

Thanks for having us. We to give you some backstory, twelve years ago, we worked here with another storehouse in the old quad and renovated it, restored it, got the Mills Act on it, and then outgrew it after we had four kids. So but we've we've come to love the old plot and love historic homes, love the idea of trying to problem solve of how do we keep the history, but still make it livable and where our kids aren't running from the shower up the front stairs to go to bed. So yeah. So with this house, we right when we bought it initially, we even talked to Ross.

Like, well, we know where eventually we're gonna outgrow how it is set up as it is and need bathrooms upstairs and a couple of other things. And so he's been helping us for the last four years look at every iteration, every design. How do we keep our beloved twisty stairs as we call them and if you run up and down them? And then also

in the meantime, we put

it on historic home tour and got put that on display and the excitement too of, well, one day we're gonna even, you know, make this even better and restore it even more and dig into the history that the previous family did or all the I guess, all the research with the history before and found out that there was a servant woman that lived there for so many years and for so many families. And so this this servant staircase is really important to us to keep. So Rob was really great about moving around, trying to figure out how we could preserve it and put it in this addition, which think is part of where it's like we've really pinched every last little square foot to keep the main structure of the little the t style structure of the house as a whole while keeping the new stuff in the addition. And so that fourth bedroom in the back there right now, it has a little bathroom back there with a closet tub that was put in later, and it's in pretty bad shape underneath all the mess. But anyways, it we wanna restore that back to the little what was the servant's quarters likely, and put that bedroom back, and then shift that staircase.

And so I'm sure even through my talking, you can tell that we've done a lot of thought and put a lot of thought into this, and Rob has done every iteration that he can. And so when we came back to the 66%, we're like, oh, we feel like we've already really pinched it. We don't wanna add more on the bottom. Like, we feel like we actually had made the master a little bit bigger to accommodate the four original windows that we're gonna put back in there and restore those. So it's all those little give and takes of the numbers of like, oh, but I don't wanna get rid of the twisty stairs, but we don't wanna give up a bathroom because we wanna be able to be here for the long term and make it work

for our family for the long term. So

and then also, we love our neighbors. We love our neighborhood. We talked to the neighbor on that side where the the addition's going. And I'm not sure if you guys got the letter from her or not, but she sent a letter in. Oh, good. We took her through the house, showed her the plans, and we were going forward. And she and her husband are both excited for us too and don't have any issues with it. So we're I feel like we've kinda done our due diligence in that way too.

We also went across the street, talked to Lou. He's very passionate about historic homes. Walked him through all the plans, and he said, we have a lot of work to do, but he moves a lot.

And the project. Yeah. You have to get moving.

I'm too old for projects like that. Mean, y'all are young.

So Yeah.

And then Judy Tucker is on the backside of

So But

and if you've driven down the street or done the Google Maps, can see all the two story houses. We're right there by the Morris Morris mansion. And then, of course, Bob and Lee's house and Judy Tucker's on the backside and a couple of other really big two story houses that were probably close to a 100% of the ratio from the beginning. And then just to throw the other ratio out there, our addition in itself is 48% from top to bottom.

What we're at.

What we're adding. We're at the addition to it.

Did I say anything, though?

Yeah. Right.

You got the windows with the windows, and that was a fight with this original one. And I put the four windows that were pulling off the house because of theirs because of the addition. We had to enlarge the bedroom a little bit so that we could fit them in properly. Yeah. And both the historian that did the SIS review, you know, he had written me as this first pass, go, it'd be really nice if I go

know I'm working on them.

So they they eventually, and so it's it's positive. We'll have both.

Yes. They already have some.

I know. I know.

They're working

on the south side window. So

Oh, if you have any questions for us, great.

Thank you. Yep. Thanks for having me. Any questions for the division?

The siding. What are we gonna look at the siding on the on the new edition?

Yeah. So it'll be wood slat siding, but you're not supposed to match it exactly. So it's supposed to look distinct and different. So Is that a crotch g group?

Fold it out.

Cross. Fold it out. I think it's it's a v group.

It's a here, but it would be

I think it's one by eight.

The original. Yeah. Sorry.

If ever sits slightly bigger, one by eight maybe. Yeah.

We saw him with the.

Sometimes that's done, but this side of the so beaker, but then I think I need a proportion. Did we do the one? Sorry.

And there's a little bit of bead board in that one.

Yeah. That little little, you know I guess it's all did I show it? I'm sorry. I apologize. Yeah. I think we did the same on both. Sometimes I I I mix it, but,

The the cool thing is about how the house is designed, there's so much it's, like, massive in the front that you can't see the addition.

Like, if you're at the street, there's

a big bay leaf tree that covers the one foot eight that sticks out. I mean, really, only the neighbor that wrote this letter will ever see this.

Yeah. You asked a big question. So

Sorry. Yeah. You can ask about Ruth. Was gonna Go

for it.

But I think from

from front, it's looking almost same.

Sorry. We were talking over you.

No. I was just looking at the front elevation proposed and the existing. It's not significant change. You can feel if you are looking for that as an criteria for historical. Yeah. It's a really good. In the front, actually Yeah. Can barely see it.

Yeah. But they were saying that the customer's actually much worse than the.

So carefully removing the staircase and moving it over, old brittle wood, what's the mitigation plan of things? Yeah.

I I don't think we're gonna remove it piece by piece. My hope is that we take it

all out in one. That's

yeah. That's the idea. It's pretty hard because it's only attached in a few it's attached to the center post, right, the wood post, and then most of it just has sheetrock. You know, the large portion of it's winding up, so it's only connected. To the two books. Yeah. In places to the wall. Okay. Should be okay.

It's pretty solid. Yeah.

You have any questions about it with? Don't

Any more questions for the applicant before I open the public, which I actually don't see any.

Probably you've done it. You approved already. Okay.

Cool. So, technically, I'm opening the public, and then closing the public because there's no public here. Discussion amongst commissioners on this item. So I mean, I I guess, like, some clarification is, like, you know, if we do recommendation from staff, that would include the recommendation for, like, changing the the ratio from 70 to 66. But, like, we can also, like, have our modification saying, like, 70 is okay.

Right. But so I think that's part of

I

discussion that we need to have.

I'm quickly gonna say I think the design is really balanced the way it appears. I I think the 66 rule wouldn't be the right thing to apply here. I like my numbers, but it doesn't make sense here. It might be to change the way it's building. It's drawn in front of me. It looks balanced. It looks integrated well. I don't see any unacceptable or or unattractive elevations here. I believe that we already discussed the front. The elevation not being too visible from the street and the and the 2nd Floor is stepping away from that. And for all these reasons, I I don't know about 66 making sense as a as a restriction to place on this.

Other side.

Yeah. Because the door that's actually on the south side, we'll replace that one with an original. It was an old one, but not original. So we'll take down the sidelights on the north side and move

it over and restore it back to the original exterior door.

Think there must have been a. I think it's well prepared, and everyone's focused on the design and how careful you guys are being with the integrity and the design is preserving what it what it is. But I think it's really important that you have the blessing of the neighborhood. That's super important. I really have support here by someone that is going to be able to view something that not everyone will see, I think that's that's really that's strong strong support.

And,

yeah, it looks good. It's a good team.

No. I I'm agree with every what they're saying, and I don't think that I think there should be a modification to accept this 70% over the 66%. It's close. It's within a range. I'm of the belief that these older homes don't follow the same exact code. They're so unique and so different that they have to be taken one at a time. So, yeah, I think it looks great. I'm I wouldn't wanna change the 1st Floor massing because then it's too big and sticks out too much. So I'm I'm good with the way it is, and I like that you took the time, and I

like that you're saving the staircase.

Thank you.

And that in the windows, even on the back.

Pretty much echo what everyone else is saying here. I feel really comfortable that Rob's in charge of this project because he's so meticulous about preserving history. And it's wonderful that you own this house as well because I can see the love that you have for this house and how much you care about it. I lived on Wood Street as a child, so I always walked by your house. And I

was like, I love that house.

And then there's the Frank House, and there's the Morse Mansion. It was like all these beautiful two story houses going down Washington Street. So it's almost like it looked like when I was a kid. So throughout the years, people have really taken care of this house. So it's it's quite a beauty. I I agree with everyone here that the design doesn't impact the front of the house at all. And and from the exterior, it's just as it was in 1861. The fact that I didn't even know it was that old, 1861.

It may be older. I don't know. It's the eighteen

eighteen sixty. 1861.

It's '18? Okay.

Yeah. It's phenomenal. 1860.

Yeah. Yeah.

I like what I see. So

Yeah.

I have a question. Sure. How does this affect the Mills contract, and does it affect at all the existing Mills contract? To staff? So

the mills contract that's currently in effect, I think, did mention during this year that there will be an addition and improvements to the property. And so it is part of it, and they are providing by their current contract.

Okay. Cool.

Yeah. I always So that we present I'll add some insight whenever I'm working with it. Oh, sorry. I didn't

Oh, so that will be still continue to be the. On to the property that how will that be, you know, in the unit? Will A proper text, so addition. The addition to the property Mhmm. How will it be properly text? Can we send the lower?

So it'll be reassessed, but it'll be at reduced rate that the.

By the SOIS. It talks through the areas just go north. Part of the character defining features of

the house, and I actually wanted

to check that. I was just kinda checking that while somebody was talking. That's another question. So it does exactly say that it's it's more risk as well or as well as affecting the character defining.

Okay. You were gonna say something?

Yeah. It was just that oftentimes that that could be a failure when someone goes for the Mills Act. That's why whenever I help Shepherd a project, I always tell them, make sure that you put in there what you're projecting to do. Brian Johns, who used to sat on this commission, I worked with him, and we did his basement, but he did not include the basement as part of his Mills Act. So what happened was now he had a one bedroom house.

It was all butchered initially. He got taxed on that entire basement. He was and Brian's very meticulous. So he fought, and he actually had to pay for another Mills Act contract because they had to redo the contract. He's still happy now, but knowing Brian, he wasn't happy then at that moment. But I learned a lot from that. So even if you have people come before you, it is always a question posed to them just to help them because, know, you just don't want them to get too far down. So yeah. And then I have to pay for it twice.

Thank

you. Appreciate the discussion. I echo, like, all sentiments. You know, think that that was 70%

of the size

to me, like, for this. Very unique property. Like, knows this property. I think it's also, like, really important that you get blessings from

from Lou and Judy. Those are those

are folks that used to sit here a lot just to, you know, critique a lot of projects and, like, getting, like, the sort of context for that and, like, knowing that they are okay with the the modification of proposing actually weighs a lot to those those of us who knows, like, their opinion, like, around

Okay. We moved the the project with the slight change to the staff recommendations that we recommend the modification for the setback, and we also recommend that we keep the masking as is and have a modification to 70%.

Thank you. Any friendly amendments, questions, comments, or a second?

I second.

Thank you. For the second, those who are in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstain? You have this project's recommended approval.

You do.

Thank you, Thanks, everyone. Yeah. It was a fun project. Looking forward to it. Alright. Thank

you. Bye. See you

guys later. Bye. Alright. And we'll move on to item three. Twenty six two forty, potential landmark designation to Tubercio Vasquez Grape Site. I said it right for this time. I

practiced.

Yeah. I did.

Mr. P or something. Okay.

So this is a continuation from the commission's discussion. I believe it was at the December meeting.

So you had all had requested additional information about mister Vasquez's life. And so I reached out to the city of story and Laurie Garcia, and she provided what was the draft of the staff report, which is a more detailed biography spanning the entirety of his life up until his death. And so, hopefully, the commission feels that's adequate information to make a determination if you wanna move forward with designating his gravesite as a

You know, my question is, like, you know, what what is the process of designations? Because I think we're all going for Right? I think it moves so much once again, if not all. Like, what what is our internal same process designating as a historic site? And then, like So we wanna put

a plaque there, like, what's

that what's that gonna look like?

So you guys actually do it all the time. Right? Because when someone's applying for a MELLS Act and they're not already on the HRI, you all are saying, yes. Put this property on the HRI, and, yes, you can have a MELLS Act. Right.

And so I will come back with a staff report saying designate Tiburcio Vasquez rave site as a landmark a similar staff report to what we would do for if it was a house. Okay. You would make a recommendation, and then we would go forward to counsel. Okay. I would hope that one or more of you would attend the council meeting and that we can coordinate on the date and such to represent the request since, I guess, technically, you would be the faculty.

Yeah. That sounds good. And, you know, if we if we're moving forward, I guess, like, saying this type of info, and, you know, any other way to consent to it, I I would recommend have a commission in CRJ to to present for it and come in and support because you're the the biggest proponent for for this designation.

HLC. HLC. That'd cool.

Anything like with that, we're also thinking we've been thinking about doing a plaque as well. I don't know

what the process would be. Like, we would do that.

So it's similar to also when we've done larger plaques for a house. I mean, I guess I would also reach out to the cemetery to see if they have any Yeah. Regulations on the size and such. But it did look like from Lori's write up that there is a gravestone, but it just doesn't have kind of, like, description. Mhmm. So one, figure out the size allowance to prepare, like, a write up with Laurie, maybe a summary from her biography. Yeah. And then excuse I did find a new black maker.

Also I

was about to ask that.

Yeah. Yeah. So it makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Cool.

So

yeah. Because I think the last two large blacks we did, Lori actually wrote the description for them, so that'd be fitting. Yeah.

Awesome. Maybe we'd have to figure out

logistically how where it goes. Some of the having you done, they would ask when you were brought. Other ones went around. Like yeah.

Yeah. So

I guess that would

help you further. I think it

would be, like, whoever's managing the cemetery, they have to tell us what's

available and what's proper. Yes. And are we asking probably not. But are we asking to remove the headstone or put in front of the headstone?

Probably in addition. Okay. Two headstones that's already there. It would be historic. Yeah. Headstone. Because it's not already there. Yeah.

Well, if you look

at the picture, it's Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. Criteria are historical or. Mhmm. And based on that, I was looking into the first place that is. Is it being taught in some schools or some I

think it should. It probably should be. So, like, there there are and then he is known as a historic figure, like, in the in kinda, like, California history. I I think it depends on the curriculum. Mean, like, school that's gonna teach you this information. But, like, it is to a point he's famous enough that people do actually come to the cemetery and look for it.

Because I was thinking like, say, kids are Thank you. Laughing about him. Yeah. And there is some citing that, yes, the is here. It's

a good point.

Like, I Yvonne, you might know better. Is this is his history being taught, and, like, is it available?

And See, the the thing like, his influence is it'll all be

to, like, Los Angeles, for example. Mhmm.

Like, if you've seen Star Trek, the background of those rocks are actually called the Baskets Rocks because that's what he used to hide. Mhmm. That was his hideout. Yeah. And so there's a lot

of influence

from how he employ him and others influence the fictional character, Zoro. Zoro influenced the character. So this is, like, pop culture that to this day is still evolving from characters like people so bad. Actually, these are interesting facts. What I was thinking is this part of You can learn that in, like, Chicago studies or Mexican American studies or California studies group, like, anything regarding California because he was in California before before Mexico had had part of his territory even before that.

Interesting.

At the same time, I I was thinking of and more people visit, more Yeah. Kids visit. So there should be some anchor in the curriculum.

Yeah. For example, our historian, Laurie, she she she referred to the ends of having a historical moment where they people so asked if it's actually a reference, and they've made trips to a cemetery.

Where would the Black Beaches?

I think that's that that was part of the discussion earlier that we need to figure out coordinate with the cemetery to figure out, like, where it should go. Yeah.

I was googling other famous outlaws throughout the country, and Jesse James has a lot of Yeah. King. Butch Cassidy. So I was like, why what reasons? Tourism's apparently big for

Oh, yeah.

Historic even where they fought and had shootouts has even gotten that

work. So it's

the first train robbery. There's one in Iowa that I saw just the train. So they have the actual wheel thing from the train. That's cool.

Even houses where they grew up have landmarked

a lot.

Like, apparently, it has a fan base of the guys. They do.

So for this item, I'm looking for or not a recommendation, a vote to move forward with the designation, and I will come back with the the formal designation report logistics and then move on to.

Cool. Sure I'm about owners of the home that was on the historic house tour, buying a plaque for his house, and we approved the fact that he had already bought the stone, like the root rock. So would we also be buying the rock that the. So so we need

to coordinate with the cemetery to figure out logistics. So that that's gonna be part of the report next time if we were go if we are moving forward with this. Because we don't know what's appropriate for the cemetery manager. Yeah.

I think the cemetery has, like, a big block at some type of historic clock already for

the cemetery. We will have

to ask them to kinda figure out what what's appropriate at this point.

Yeah. Cool.

Yeah. Do I have a motion? Yes. I'm to move forward with the As an issue. As issue.

As an issue. Thank you. And a second? You second? Yeah. Awesome. Those are in favor, say

aye. Aye.

Opposed? Opposed? Be unanimous. We're moving forward. Thank you.

That's fine.

We have, Okay. Really cool.

Item four, twenty six through 38, public hearing us. California presentation foundation twenty twenty six annual conference.

It's 8PM.

It's coming up again.

Yes. So attached to the report with all the information on the conference. So the purpose of that tonight is to go for the expenditure funds should any of the commissioners wish to attend. Yeah.

Mhmm.

You will miss a Chelsea meeting

on the seventh. Yes.

Oh, wow.

Yep. Unless you decide to attend remotely after your hotel address.

You You could.

I guess if multiple people go

Alright. We'll think about it. But that should not be enough should not be

a consideration if you wanna go to CBO. So I think we're looking at a little bit

more to go

and improve the expenditure for the the number of people going.

Can I

get up to the baby?

Is it alright? Maybe We would have to. We're in the budget for you. Yeah. We

have to use this. Just have to go go high to cover the cost. Okay? Just

That's what we usually do.

Great. First one. So

So we got one we got one.

I would like to go.

We got two.

I would like to go.

We got three.

I'd have some. Wait. So if I if I

say yes, it'll accrue six to the budget. Right? But then it's I can only get it.

Can I just say yes?

And we got four.

Okay. Yeah. But I do need to put, like, a deadline on the maybes.

Yeah. Because

I gotta book. You know?

What what would the deadline be? Yeah. Because I'm a navy as well. I haven't gone to one yet. Maybe this will be done in the first year. But probably to go. It would be. Haven't been to a lot of.

Well, you can take me off because I went last year. Yeah. That's fine. I don't need

to go twice a month. I am a strong rate, though. So Still familiar. I think we need to know for sure. Okay.

Let me say April 1. K. That gives us month. Yeah. I mean, keep in mind,

I don't know. This is April 1. He can't And I'll be like, I'm going. For travel.

If I don't hear

from you, then I'm taking it as a no.

And then do we have to go for the whole three days? No. We don't have to go for the whole time. Okay. Is the itinerary as far as the training is already published on my website? Training screen.

Oh, yes. And it's attached there. Okay.

Yeah. There's a they do have a website, and they generally have their training tracks on there. Okay.

And we're supposed to do how many trainings per year? Like, what's the hour recommendation?

But, like, going to this rule will give you the kind of entire training that you need to hear. It takes it's a lot of hours.

That's if you go for the whole three days?

Maybe, like, even a few days. Because, anyway, if you're doing full days Yeah. That's monitoring hours.

That's true. Yeah. Okay.

My sister went That was Yeah.

Your Sacramento, that was great.

Yeah.

It was really good. Yeah. That

was really good. That was good.

We were exhausted.

Yeah. It was dark. It was there.

Summertime weather. Yeah.

But they dropped you off at a

in a beer park. That

was really It was. Yeah. It was.

We were, like, dehydrated. I don't know if your health

got Yeah.

Okay. So so we're gonna have indication, like, who wants to go. I think preference if you have not gone before, I think we we should have preference to that. Yeah. And then we'll have confirmation by by the twentieth. If you're if you're saying no or, like, not responsive by the twentieth, then you're you're off the list. But, like, we do need to approve for

the budget for whoever Mhmm. Is volunteering to go. Yeah. Oh, does that include the fee?

Yeah. So that's that's what we're we have to approve the budget for. Yeah.

Stuff. Yeah. I have.

I don't have my work phone on me, so I don't know if I'm free either. So yeah. Let me open up budget spreadsheet. Okay.

One place is not south as well. Yeah.

I mean I mean, not spend is not spend. So Right. Yeah. But, like, our charger should have stuff. I was also talking to some to counselor. They're still trying to have a kid for more training budget for all the positions. Yeah. So budget update. Mhmm.

So minus the plaque, you all or I just filled the order for for the year plaque that you Yeah. Approved, you're at approximately $6,000 for the remainder of the fiscal year. Okay.

Is that just, like, a regular fiscal

budget? Your regular fiscal budget,

not the Not the bonus.

Yeah. I

would like Addiction. Other big one.

Yeah. Because I do wanna save

that for the other side.

That's No banner because those are on this year.

So No

banner. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Because they they can

run directly lamppost in in the city with twenty six minutes. HLC reserve. Reserve. Yeah. Thank you.

It's a reserve account.

Do you wanna spend it on the

well Yeah. We have I will provide an update.

We're talking about that as well. Yep.

So 6 k. And I forgot,

like, how

low do we usually estimate for the person. And then we gotta figure out, like,

how much were you spending, like, classes for the rest of the year or something.

Well, there's only three month four month months in the first day. So that's true. So if any if anyone wants a Plaquidrius, I could just get to order it.

How much are they? Approximately? A couple of thousand? Oh, no. For a plaque?

For just the year one. The The ones. 800. Okay.

But, like, we shifted last year too, like, a couple of them to the new fiscal year so that that worked out. Because, like, we had to make plans that we were giving

out. Right.

So we were burning the budget really steeply last year.

And if we change supply, maybe we can change numbers, change the amounts. Yeah. Changing supplies.

And we only have four more months left on the fiscal year, and then, like I mean, this last project was already in those ad. They had a plaque, so it didn't matter.

Okay.

So okay. So who's interested?

I haven't done it, like, four.

I've been to, like, out

I'm interested. I've never been before.

You've too? Stories about it.

Let's let's. Four of us? Yeah. I haven't done this Pasadena, so that was, like, Well, actually, that was seven

or something like that. We had to put the river sign.

Yay. See how blight affected them all.

And and talk

and talk about how they preserve the resources they still have.

How they're resilient.

That's right.

Resilient. Okay.

Commissioner, commissioner, commissioner stocks,

commissioner one.

But you guys are all I

think we're all maybes. Are we all maybes? We're all strong maybes. I can't remember. You you still have to look at the schedule. Okay. So we're strong maybes. If if none of us can go, would any one of you guys like to go? So Oh, I mean we just

Yeah. Okay.

I'll I'll

they're in the violence league.

Well Well, we'll see you.

Don't call me. I'll call you.

Okay. I'll call you.

That's fair. If anyone drops out.

Yeah. If any of us drop out, then they'll be so because because I think we're we're deciding on four sides. So and then we'll we'll confirm if we can go. If if any one of us can't go,

then you you guys are gonna be reserved.

To Rebecca's point, have quorum if four people are not here.

Oh, we will not unless we actually get a conference with them there at the separate meeting.

Can I

do a virtual quorum?

We could. Actually, no. We the room. Go.

Yeah. Yeah.

So we can If

we do have urgent items, we can find an alternative meeting date.

Yeah.

Or we can just cancel it. We can meet. I know we will have some items for the April meeting. Yeah.

That's actually kind of true. Okay.

Motion? Anyone approve for board commissioners go naked?

I approve.

So motion. Move. So move.

Do I have a second, guys? Thank you. Those in favor say aye. Aye. Those in favor, say Opposed? Abstain? You have this. Thank you. Those are all the public hearing items that's. And then then where where is staff report?

So as a follow-up to the work plan that

the council approved last year, I started working priorities the one, which was update to our historic preservation ordinance. So since that was the priority, I reached out to several firms to just get a ballpark of of what the cost may be for preservation or for an ordinance update. I specified in my contact that we were looking to, one, establish a clear and implementable process for the creation of a historic district with the understanding that the process would not require a 100% property owner acceptance. And then also, on staff side, we would like to clarify the difference between projects requiring a minor a minor versus a major significant property alteration permit. Because it it's confusing even for staff and defining what is a small project versus not a small project.

It could just be more better to find both for us and the public. So those were my two main asks in reaching out to the firms. Mhmm. So

I got one reply.

Well, I got two replies. One person said they weren't interested. Mhmm. So the reply I did get, I just wanted to share the amount with you. Mhmm.

So that was and and it did make some assumptions attending several HLC meetings, attending a council meeting, a community meeting, and then doing all the work on the actual ordinance. So they came in at 55,500. So I did talk to our purchasing department. And since we didn't so you when you're doing purchasing for less than $250,000, which this would be, you have the option to either hand select and reach out to, like, three firms or you go through the RFP process.

Mhmm.

Since I didn't get a lot of interest from my email, we'd probably gonna have to go through the RFP process. So the next step in that would be to fully define the scope with purchasing. And this is gonna be a significant portion of the funds that are in that HLC reserve account. As of I mean, and this wouldn't have changed. But as of last month, the amount in the purchase in the reserve account is $96,105.

And so what I wanted to discuss this evening was two things. Are we going in the right direction? Is this what the HLC is looking to do? You don't need to vote, but just a discussion. And then at a future meeting, I would come back for the expenditure of funds and start going through the RFQ process with our purchasing team with updates for you along the way. And then also to ask if there's anything specific the HLC would like included in the scope other than those two things that I just mentioned.

Discussion on the side. This is it's for updating the ordinance. Mhmm. Yeah. So it costs more to go through the RFP process?

No. It won't cost more. It's just that because I didn't get a lot of replies from my one on one email, it would be, I think, better to broadcast the triplet, get a wider net, essentially. Review current ordinance and develop list of recommended modifications based on best practices. Recommendations will focus on clarification of project review processes and establishing a clear process for historic district designation.

Meet with city staff to discuss recommendation. Yeah. Prepare internal draft ordinance amendment, and then sub there's several iterations, several drafts.

And who the question?

Like, historic firms.

So do the RFP, like, do you send it out, like, on the website? Or how would you

Yeah. So there's a a website that the city uses for all procurement. It's called, like, BidNet, I believe. And so people that are in these fields typically have, like, alerts on to get alerts that in our fee that they may be interested in. It's been posted. We can also hand not hand select, but email individuals. Or if you all have ideas of who we should blast the RFP too, we

can do that as well. So I think anybody who has previously respond,

Yes. Provide us. Don't know if we we've really used any recently for these purposes.

I mean, outside the

Probably, I wouldn't say Bay Area for sure, but California. Yes.

I recently did an update to the board. It took a long time. Is this relatively like, or budget wise, is there a way to know, like, if what would be considered out of the boundaries of what, you know, we should be looking at? Or

So that was a lot more comprehensive. That was our whole zoning code, and this is one chapter of it. Yeah.

So maybe time.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not sure what the budget was on that, but we can compare it. I can see what the final cost was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's quite a big number. It's just they've either done it before or they don't wanna do the work. Is there any kind of examples?

I think just this this amount. Oh, yeah.

Like, they got any examples to kind of convince us that, you know, 5 k y is more than a problem. Reserves, you know, gets us what we might be looking for that they can share.

So this I was just asking them how to kindness of their hearts. They're gonna send this to me, like, as far as a ballpark. Yeah. So we would have a much more strict application process by going through BitNet and through the RFQ process where they have to provide, you know, like, examples of their previous work, resumes of the employees, etcetera. Okay.

I have a question. I like so familiar with the RFQ process. RFP from different organizations submit bids for the work, can the 200 submit bids see the amount that the other No.

It's all confidential.

Oh.

And during our RFP process, like, would we have a chance

to have some of the numbers, like, on the HLC?

Yeah. I think that would be appropriate. Yeah. Okay.

Mhmm. I'm sorry. What was the last part of the question?

Couple of us. To be participants on the RFP process. Oh, yes. Visit. Yeah. Yeah. But one one of the organizations we talked to in Sacramento was. Oh, yeah. Mhmm.

And they even gave us a card. They seemed very interested. Oh, okay. I just little quick chat to continue to see who were the most commonly used for this type of service by California cities,

and number one was Cajun Terminal. Okay. They did Riverside, Sacramento, major cities, but maybe that's a good

place to start since they already expressed

They've been blessing you, you know, $55,000. Do you have of estimate how long the process would take, like, six months? Or

No.

No.

Okay. Well,

like I said, this was just bug.

And, Rebecca, something Kathleen made me think of, assuming they get the documents ready, the council doesn't necessarily have to accept it. Is there a risk that they that they

say we don't

have this accepted?

Always. Yes.

Right. We need their experience. Right?

When it

comes to the document they prepare, we need to know their experience of getting, you know, document ready to get through with the approval process.

I mean,

has the support of HLC?

I don't know.

Wasn't gonna spend all of my

money getting shut down. Yeah.

Mean, there's no guarantee. Like, a lot of times, like, when it comes

to us

proposing stuff to council, I feel like. But if we are really focused and reasonable and, like, really hold the consultant to, know, achieving the goals that, like, we're we're gonna set out to

achieve, I think we'll have we'll we'll get a pretty good chance of getting that updated. We just have to be reasonable.

But they're they're definitely, like, lot

of holes that I I would love to plug within our within our code right now. It's like the

there there are there are definitely definitely some gaps that we we have on

there that doesn't give us, like, any instructions on how to action that some of the things that we

want to. So, like, we we need

to plug those gaps, like, for sure.

But I think, like, sometimes we do have to keep in mind we're we're probably gonna get to 80%. We're not gonna get, like, to a 100% of, like, exactly what we want. Right?

So that's kinda like the kinda

the lead that we have to

make, like, to do this. And we've

been I've been talking about this for, like, how many years?

How long have I been here?

Yeah. Ten years?

You'd asked if there

was anything else that you'd like that you'd like included in it. I

don't know if this could

be part of the code or if it's part of the process or how it works, but sounds so mean when I say this. There doesn't seem to be any recourse or very little recourse Mhmm. For people who do things and then ask for forgiveness later. It's kinda like, I'm not gonna I I I understand that the last one I wasn't there for December, and I went and saw the minutes and everything. But that was not the normal case, right, where we actually got everything.

And we've had, you know, homes where that are in the Library of Congress that have had windows removed and that sort of thing that is lost. It's one thing to try and get them to replace it, but the original is lost. Mhmm. And I don't know what I don't

have an

answer for it, but just

what's a better way to go about it? Or is there any recourse the city has to act

upon it? I mean,

I know you do stoppages. Right? Is there any is there fines associated with it? I don't

even know. If they don't comply.

If they don't comply. Yeah.

But you just do a so this process right now is there's a stoppage, then it has to go in front of staff to or how to mitigate it.

Yeah. Figure out what's going on.

Figure out what's going on. And then if they don't do that, then there's

a or they do it. This is maximum to find the same issue.

And so sometimes that amount is not very high. Yeah. Like, what we would

be asking. Right. Because it's more expensive to come in front of the commission and go through the whole process than it is to just pay the fine. Mhmm. So I

was you know,

I don't know how when the last time it was updated. I don't know. It's something to think about.

Yeah. So that's not part of the code.

I believe that's Just the process. Yeah.

I'm not sure where it comes from. Yeah. Maybe it's part of the city code, not the zoning code. Yeah. Yeah. That's curious.

That's a good point.

It's cheaper just to take the fine and. Right? I know a lot of people do that.

What was part of her scope for 55,000?

I mean, was it just changing the ordinance? Or it's

changing the ordinance to community meetings.

Four

iterations, like drafts.

Was the contract statement part of that? No.

And, yeah, that's the other big thing we wanna do. That's also probably expensive. That's really expensive. So I think when Sacramento did it, it was over 2 over 1,011, wasn't it? It was really high. It was it was in my presentation. Yeah. And I was like, what? You're like, I want that. It was high.

What? Thousand dollars? I wanna say it was.