Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yeah, it's not the right thing. Okay, here's Okay, here's planning commission. The one that came up was Court of Appeals. Okay, I got the right one. Now you just got to go back and click on the right one once it opens. Yeah, I saw that it was um planning commission. Yeah, once I got here, the one that it brought up was just No, no, they just need to click on um the tab and then they should be on there. Yep. And then you click on where you at. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Right. All right. That's all the stuff we're used to. Okay, everybody. Thank you for coming. I'd like to call to order the Sandy Springs Planning Commission meeting uh for tonight. Uh what is June 18th? Uh Sam, if you would. Good evening, chair, vice chair, and members of the planning commission. Today is June 18, 2025. Please confirm your attendance as I call your name.

Chairman Reed Haggard, I'm here. Vice Chair Andy Porter here. Commissioner Robin Conland here. Commissioner Karen Talovich here. Commissioner Sherwin Clemens here. Uh Commissioner Andrea Settle here. Commissioner Elizabeth Kelly here. Your attendance have been confirmed and will be included in the official meeting minutes. Now I will read the announcements regarding the decorum and the procedures of the planning commission meeting. The planning commission's duty is to review and provide recommendations on applicant applications for legislative review, including text amendments, comprehensive plan, character area maps, amendments, zoning map amendments, resonings, and conditional use permits. The petition will be heard in the sequence listed on the posted agenda. Following are some of the rules and procedures for this part of the meeting. The applicant and all those speaking in support of the application will be allowed a total of 10 minutes to present the petition. The applicant may choose to say some of the time for rebuttal following the pres the presentation by the opposition. The opposition will be allowed a total of 10 minutes to present its pos uh its position. Excuse me. Since the burden of proof is upon the applicant, the applicant will be allowed to make closing remarks provided time remained from the original allotted time. Staff will keep track of the time for both sides. Those called to speak will be taken in the order that the public comment cards were received by the planning and zoning clerk prior to the beginning of tonight's meeting. All speakers will identify themselves by name, address, and if applicable, organization before the beginning their presentation. Demonstration of any sort within the chamber is prohibited. So, please refrain from any applause, cheering, booing, outburst, or dialogue when the person is speaking. Please show

the same respect to the person speaking that you will expect to receive. The applicant should the applicant shall not submit materials to the planning commission during the meeting. All materials should be submitted to the community development department at least 30 days prior to the scheduled meeting for inclusion in the normal distribution of packaging to the commission. Thank you, chair. Thank you, Sam. Uh we've got a meeting agenda for tonight that includes one case um uh request for conditional use permit um at uh 301 Johnson Ferry Road. Uh it looks like everything's in order for that. Uh anyone want to make a motion to approve the agenda? Okay, Miss Kelly seconded by Slovich. All in favor? I uh meeting agenda is approved. Uh we also have I have meeting minutes from last meeting which look in order especially the part where I requested new binders which we have and name tags which we have. So thank you very much for that staff. Uh but this looks uh accurate. Um someone motion to motion by Miss Settle seconded. Second. All in favor? I. All right. So, with that being said, let's call the first case. 2025-00001 U-24-4 301 Justin Ferry Road. A request for a conditional use permit to allow for a collibarium to be placed at the existing place of worship campus in the RE-2 zoning district. Presented by Laquita Williams, our planner 2.

No. Okay. All right. Good evening, commissioners and members of the public. Welcome to the June 18th, 2025 planning commission public hearing. Tonight I will be introducing use permit U24-4 for the Sandy Springs Christian Church at 301 Johnson Ferry Road. Staff's recommendation is approval with conditions. The applicants are requesting a conditional use permit to allow for a calarium to be placed in existing place of worship campus in the RE2 zoning district. The character area of the subject property is protect the neighborhood and the zoning is RE2. To the left, highlighted in the teal blue color is the subject parcel. The survey to the right shows the existing development with the driveway and pavilion. The existing RE2 site has been here since the 1970s and consists of a daycare, playground, pavilion, and a day school. There are seven abunding properties in the Windham Hills neighborhood to the northeast and about three abundant properties in the Telar neighborhood to the west. Next slide. Thank you. To the left is a clearer version of the existing site and to the right is a front view of the church from Johnson Ferry Road. Here is what it looks like today at the site. Between the beam and the car is where the proposed calarium would be.

The stone wall to the left is the existing pavilion. Here are some images of the existing landscape buffer in the rear of the church's property. The proposal seeks to add six commonarium structures that will take up approximately 448 square ft. The max height is proposed at 7 and 1/2 ft while the max width is 9 and 1/2 ft. The applicants are proposing to add landscape block retaining walls. The development will be located in the rear of the church between an existing open air pavilion and the church building. Here is a site plan markup. This image is demonstrating the colarium structures in purple and landscape retainer walls in green. The applicants are proposing to add some sitting benches and additional shrubs around the development. Staff has reviewed the conditional use permit standards for calarium and churches which included the use comp excuse me um compatibility with the adjacent use impact. staff knows that the proposal exceeds the standard and the impact is minimum. The proposal also is an appropriate land use in the protected neighborhood character area. Now, uh we'll turn over to planning zoning manager Michelle Macintosh Ross to explain the conditions and the recommendation. Good evening. Do you hear him? Great. Okay. So, the recommendations from

staff. So, following review and based on the findings, staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit U-24-4 to allow for a columbarium to be placed at an existing place of worship campus in the RE2 zoning district subject to the following conditions as amended from the 1984 conditional use permit U-84-107. Where the text is written in blue represents the verbiage carried forward from the previous use permit. Where the text is highlighted in yellow represents the amended and/or added verbiage. So condition number one remains intact to the owner's agreement to restrict the use of the subject property as follows. a church and accessory uses including a pre kindergarten program in an expanded existing structure. You can go to the next slide. Number two remains intact. Number three A and B also remain intact. We have edited 3 C and D to read as follows. 3C parking lots and driveways on the rear side of the properties that Front River Springs Drive and Marshon Court shall be screened from adjacent residential properties by an opaque fence at least 6 feet in height where feasible approved by the director of community development and to be completed before the installation of the column barrier. 3D parking lots and driveways on the rear side of the properties that front River Springs Drive shall be screened from adjacent residential properties by landscaping at least 6 feet to 8 ft installed height where feasible approved by the director of community development and to be completed before the

installation of the columbarium. The owner shall replace any deceased plantings within the first three years after installation. After the three-year period, the owner shall maintain all the plantings installed for the purpose of screening the residential neighbors approved by the city operas. We added letter I. So it's three I comply with the requirements set forth in the Georgia Cemetery and Funeral Services Act of 2000 andor federal, state, and regional law condition. Sorry. Um this shows the uh fence. Let me go back. I just wanted to show the type of fence that we were talking about for screening. But you can move to the next slide. It's just an example. Okay. So, we added um so condition number four and five remain intact. We added a condition number six as follows. Six development must be substantially similar to the site plan received by the community department community development department on April 22nd, 2025. Okay. We had three public comments in three public comments came in through our portal. Two were in opposition and one was neutral. The neutral comment mentioned that our condition number 3 C and D were a bit confusing. So we may consider an edit during the motion if the commission wishes to consider approval of this case. And that is my presentation. You're good. All right. Well, thank you very much. Uh and I guess we'll address that when we address it. Uh well, with that, let's open the uh uh public hearing portion of this case and hear from the applicant.

Yeah. Okay. Uh, that'll work. My time was short, so I wanted to make sure we got them all. Um, my name is Jordan Edwards. Uh, here to speak for the applicant this this evening, 4062 Peace Tree Road, Atlanta. um speaking for the church in their request for a conditional use permit to allow them to add a columbarium at their existing church at 301 Johnson Ferry Road uh in Sammy Springs. Um Sam, you can go to that next slide there. Um just a little bit about the church. Um they first founded in 1960. The original location was on Roswell Road. Um they moved they built this church and moved here in 1971. Have been there ever since. They focus on being welcoming. Uh focus on service. You may also be familiar with the day school. Um the day school has been operating from this church since 1973. Um so almost the same 50 years um as a church and obviously provides a lot of service to the city. Um next slide Sam. Um briefly a colarium is a structure where cremated remains can be interred and cared for uh into perpetuity. Uh these are a couple of local examples, Buckhead and Dunwoody. Um so you can see they have niches um with the names on them and then uh they're surrounded in a larger cabinet box. Um next slide, Sam. Sam Samantha. Um this is a list that I developed um in about 45 minutes of just churches in Buckhead, Dunwood, Sandy Springs, Roswell um that have colariums. It is by no means a complete list. Again, these are very commonplace features for churches to have. And next slide, please. Uh, a few more examples. These are ones that I visited myself. Um, they are universally quiet, serene places. Uh, actually pretty easy to overlook even if

you know what you're looking for. Um, next slide, please, Sam. Um the church's proposal would be uh in the same uh vein as those others I've just showed you. Uh it would be on the smaller side. I've circled in red the location uh behind the church where they've selected for the Colomb. This is would shield it from the really loud noise from Johnson Ferry Road. It's in that corner between the the pavilion and the church building itself. Uh and then you've already seen the picture of where it would go. It stand about 7 and 1/2 ft tall. Next slide. Um, again, this is something you've already seen. That's the the site plan. Uh, an elevation facing the niches. Uh, again, 7 and a half ft tall. The back of the structure can really be faced in whatever material matches the architectural design that the church would be going for. In this case, we would use that brick uh or that stone uh facade, which is that's a photograph of the existing pavilion that' be next to. So, if you're standing outside the calarium, you won't see niches. you will see that stone wall. Uh now the we've been doing we've submitted this application back in September. Uh we've had a lot of dialogue with neighbors. Um most of the dialogue has not been about the colarum itself. It's been about screening. Uh and it's not even really screening of the colon barium which is going to be very small. Uh it's actually really stems from an old use permit. So you can go to that next one. Um staff have already been through this with you. Um, but this is the original condition 3C from that 1984 use permit which allowed the expansion of the day school. It says parking lots and driveway shall be screened by a solid wood fence or shrubs uh or other plantings and it needs to be about three and a half ft tall minimum and pro provide that 100% um visual barrier. Uh next slide please

Samantha. So um there are uh you know we've seen that there are really two areas where additional better screening can be provided and I've marked these with a blue and green lines. So the blue line is where the church is proposing to put a six-foot opaque wall or fence rather a wooden fence and the green line is where we've proposed to put um tall evergreen landscaping. Um now it is very important to the church that that be landscaping. I'll explain that in a minute. But I also want to add that behind that green line there is a 70 foot wide buffer. 60 foot required buffer plus a 10-ft additional setback. Um it's 60 ft plus 10 behind the green line is wider than that behind the blue line. It's it's pretty thickly forested. There's good topography in there. It provides a great buffer by itself. And we're proposing um plantings in addition to that buffer. Uh, next slide please Samantha. So that curved area where we're proposing landscaping is behind the pavilion that you can see in these pictures. Um, that was developed in 2016. It has become a very important part of the church building itself. It kind of brings the inside outside and the church really cherishes views from that pavilion of the natural buffer behind it. Um, I know this is just off of Johnson Ferry Road, but it does provide a quiet kind of return to nature and is part of what makes that pavilion so great. Fencing that in the church fears will really feel walled in um and and divorce it from the nature around it. Um, this again is very important to the church. Uh, and it's is the one area that I think that we're haven't been able to come to to terms with our neighbors. Um so just to conclude uh columbariums are very common place among

churches in Sandy Springs and the surrounding cities. This colarium is very important to the church. They've been wanting to do this for a very long time. Um we are committed to doing this screening. Um staff recommended a condition u or two commission conditions to you. We accept those. We think those strike a good balance. Um with that um we ask that you vote to recommend approval. I will um reserve any time I've got left, but I know I've gone very fast, so we're happy to answer any questions that y'all have. Thank you, Mr. Edwards. Thank you. We will maintain that time. Save that time. Sam, do we have uh comment cards in opposition? Yes, we do. We have uh J uh Josh Marks. No, no one else in favor. Okay. This the opposition, right? Yes, Mr. Marks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the commission. My name is Josh Marx. I live at 130 River Springs Drive. I am a neighbor behind the church and um the group uh over there is uh is with us. We'll have one or two other speakers, time permitting. Um we are in opposition to the proposal as proposed. Um, and Mr. Chairman, I want to make a motion, and I don't know if I can do that as a as an objector, to having the vote tonight. Um, because the staff report that was just presented to you today is different than the one that was presented to us on Friday, and the map that was presented in the presentation has not been shown to us at all yet. So, we think it's premature for you to vote on the proposal tonight. Uh the second reason is that the language in the staff report and in the recommendation says one thing

but the proposal says something totally contradictory. So we would request that you adjourn the meeting until your hearing in July so that we and you have the opportunity to straighten out the contradiction. So I don't know whether you want to act on that now or can preserve it and then go ahead. You continue. Okay. Um, so the staff report was issued on Friday and the language says there will be uh a six-foot fence and vegetation along the back of the properties on River Springs. There are seven properties on River Springs. Um, there was no map attached to the staff report showing that in fact the recommendation was different than that. The recommendation, as you just saw, shows a fence in front of two of the properties, vegetation in front of two of the properties, and nothing in front of the other three properties. So, the staff report is internally contradictory. Um, I want to speak to the history a little bit because that's really important. Our neighborhood is the uh Windham Hills neighborhood. We were built in the 1950s. We predate the church by at least 15 years. Um, it has always been residential zoning. Um, the church, as um, Jordan said, was built in 1971 in the current location. Um, but it has always been a residential zone. In 1984, they came to build a school to add a school to the church. And to do that in Fulton County, they required a conditional use permit to add a school. The residents that were our predecessors objected to the school and they negotiated this buffer zone that you were um uh presented with which is a 70 foot a 60oot vegetated buffer and a 10-ft no development buffer. Um as well there was a screening that was supposed

to be installed. Um the screening was a fence andor shrubs 3 and 1/2 ft tall. Now, we have been disagreeing with the church as to what 3 and 1/2 ft tall means. Um, we have argued and most reasonable folks um would say 3 and 1/2 is what the vegetation should be. You get a 3 and 1/2 ft plant that then grows up. You don't install a 3 and 1/2 ft fence. You install a 6ft fence. Um, but that was what was agreed to. And then um the vegetation was installed to satisfy that screening requirement. The vegetation died. It was not replaced. And uh they the church has been in violation of the 1984 agreement for many many years. At our request, the city issued a citation against the church earlier this year, which is an active citation for violating that 1984 agreement. that was not addressed by either staff or by the church. In 2015, the church came to us and wanted to put the pavilion that you saw in the picture into the 70oot buffer. In fact, they wanted to put the pavilion 25 ft off of our property line, a pavilion where they would have concerts and services. And we said respectfully, no, we don't want that. And that violates the letter and the spirit of the agreement. They also came and wanted to put a colarium and a um and a prayer labyrinth also in the buffer. We objected to all three and uh we protested vigorously to planning commission and city council. The church rescended the application and put the uh pavilion where it is now outside of the buffer. On or around 2017, apparently the church

decided that it wanted to do the columbarium again. Did they approach us knowing that we were so concerned about impacts? No, they did not. For seven years, the church has been considering doing a columbarium without one word to the residents that they know have had a problem with decisions that the church has made over the prior 40 years. The concerns that we have are material and they're substantive. We are concerned about visitation to the columbarium. uh creating noise, creating light impacts, creating trespass impacts. The church's property is not secured from either Johnson Ferry or Abernathy roads. So there is no prohibition against anybody accessing their property and coming back behind their property and using as an excuse to visit the columbarium and then coming and breaking into our homes that abut the columbarium. Let me talk about uh the examples that Jordan mentioned. He gave you a laundry list. Um I know that two of them in Sandy Springs are Holy Innocence and Mount Vernon Presbyterian Church. They are apples and what I call Volkswagens. Not apples and oranges, but apples and Volkswagens. The distance between those Colaria and the nearest residents are 30 to 60 ft greater. And both of them have threelane busy public roads between the columbarium and the uh residence behind of the residence adjacent. We don't um we have nothing except a vegetative buffer that I remind you was for the benefit of the residents. The buffer in 1984 was for the benefit of the residents in order to grant the school construction. It was not for the benefit of the church. So now today we have asked the church we've said we would accept a columbarium

subject to the conditions that are in the the narrative of the staff report. A 6ft fence along the entirety of our the back of our properties. 8 ft vegetation 8t of vegetation along the entirety of the back of our properties. But the fence and vegetation must be along the back of the parking lot and the driveway in order to protect us from the noise, light, trespass issues. Um, let me add one more point and then I'm going to stop. Um, valuation is a huge concern of ours. Um, churches in Colombaria are well known to be a drag on property values. There are certain uh groups, ethnic groups, religious groups who will not buy homes next to cemeteries or colaria and we have collected data showing a 10 to 15% reduction in property values for homes that are located next to columbaria. We have asked the church to do a study to determine whether any impacts would take place and the church has refused to do that. So, let me close by saying um we would like an adjournment to July. If it's not adjourned till July, uh we would request that the conditions be 6ft fence and vegetation along the entirety of the back of the seven properties situated along the parking lot. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Marks. Sam, are there other cards? I'm sorry. We have a Muhammad. Please note there's about two minutes uh left.

I mean, you don't have to rush up. It won't start till you start talking. Okay, I'll be quick. I'm Mohamad Si. I uh live on uh 6620 Bridgewood Valley Road across the church and um so um when I received the letter I attended the meeting I'm um against the columbombarium completely from the beginning not like the fence first of all it's the residential zoning and then next it's not good for the well-being of the children that go to school it's just like next to the school actually it's not next it's inside the school making colar arium and uh so that's number two. Number three is just the value of the houses around that area and uh so having Columbarium in other places as um Mr. Mark said I just wanted to reiterate that one. uh so it's very close to the neighbors and uh I mean we have the law we have to just uh follow the law but because it's church you expect the church to uh respect the values of the church which is like cons respecting uh the neighbors and the neighbors here are not happy in the back especially and uh so I'm one of the neighbors across the street so and we have many uh kind of cemeteries and columbarium around us I don't know why there's a need for another calarium. And if you allow this happen with this closed margins to the neighbors, then um any person can ask to have a calarium in their house and then who knows and then we may have like cremating services when to open a place in Sandy Springs and so this is like a kind of crowded area. So these are the object reason that I want to object about the gambarium. Thank you sir. Thank you.

And we have one more chair. Um, we have a bill Reese. Yes, Mr. Reese. There's limited time, but I'm going to keep it brief anyway. You You go right. You go right ahead. My name is Bill Reese and I live at 110 River Springs Drive, which is what are right behind where the pavilion is on the church. My understanding based on the staff report that we got, I believe on Friday, was that the staff was recommending a fence and bushes all along the back edge of the church's property. Um the the issue with not doing it that way is more complicated and at least one of the affected homeowners is sort of completely blocked out of this by the fact it's been left off. The church does perform a service and as a result of that their driveways are in use basically seven days a week. It's a commercial sort of like a commercial parking area because of the use and as they let the vegetation deteriorate, it's become part of my backyard. And I would like my my emphasis here is on returning the screening to that area because that was the agreement a long time ago. I'm less concerned about the other issues and I appreciate your time. Thank you. You bet. Thank you, sir, for for coming. Thanks for speaking. Um, Mr. Edwards. U, thanks again. Uh, I was trying to take notes and I'll try to go through as much as I can here. Um, the comment was

made that a the city issued the church a citation. It has not. uh complaint was made um during this process uh and I think that staff is probably waiting on the zoning process to resolve uh this issue. Um noise, lights, traffic, crime, all of this increasing because of the columbarium is not going to happen. Um the columbarium is not going to be lit. It's not going to have speakers at it. Um it's not people are not going to visit the columbarium uh to pay their respects and then leave turn around cross the buffer and then trespass on someone's backyard. The col barium is not going to do that. Um uh churches uh like has been said, churches have colariums frequently. They're common uh throughout the area. Uh the some of the churches that have them are surrounded by beautiful neighborhoods that have uh very high value homes in them. Uh homes that have appreciated quickly like everywhere else in Sandy Springs has over the last 5 to 10 years at the same rate that that homes have appreciated further away from the churches. Um it the the church is zoned RE2. Lots of churches in Sandy Springs are zoned RE2. Uh the use table in division seven, article 7 of the development code uh allows both churches and columbariums in separate lines in the RE2 district with the use permit. Um the city council has readopted the use table many times. So uh it is clear that churches and col environments are both compatible with residential uses uh even in protected neighborhoods. uh a six. And one other thing that I wanted to just kind of point out is that um the vegetation on the church's

property that surrounds the paved area of the parking lots and the the drive aisles uh is thick and it wraps around the entire the northern, northeastern, and and western perimeters of the property. Uh behind the folks who live on River Springs, it's 100t wide down to 70t wide where that the curve goes behind the pavilion. Um in in these areas um the the vegetation is already thick. Uh in other areas topography offers great screening by itself almost a way that a a burm would. Uh the development code the current s development code uh provides for uh screen perimeter screening of of parking lots by shrubs three and a half feet tall u by walls three and a half feet tall. that's in um article 8 8.3.2 if memory serves of the development code right now. So we're not the the special use permit from 1984 um asked for requires a 3 and 1/2t tall fence or shrubs. We're proposing a 6ft tall fence uh in the area where I indicated. Uh equally we're proposing shrubs that are uh taller than 3 and 1/2 ft at time of planting. Um the staff have recommended uh conditions that I think strikes that balance. Uh so we're supportive of those. Um I think that's all I' I've got to respond to. Um again, I'm happy to answer any questions. I know I was speaking pretty fast earlier. Um so we appreciate your time. Thank you, Mr. Edwards. With that, we'll close the uh public hearing portion of this case uh and ask uh planning commission. Someone would like to make a motion. Anyone? Okay. Yeah.

Okay. I will make a motion on case number 2025-00001 U-24-4 301 Johnson Ferry Road uh for a conditional use permit to allow for a columbarium to be placed in an existing place of worship campus in the RE2 zoning district. Um I make a motion to approve this request. We have a motion to approve and I assume that's with staff recommendations. With staff recommendations. Uh we have a motion to approve. Do we have a second? We have a second, Miss Trlovich. Uh, with that, I'll open it up for discussion. Anyone comments, thoughts, suggestions, prayers? I think I think we have to we have to I think discuss was there an alteration of the of the package between Friday and Yes, there was. I I didn't ask you. Yes, there was. Um I believe a couple of days ago, Mr. Marks reached out to staff and in um looking at the conditions as they were written. He thought they were confusing. Um I responded that staff typically doesn't address outside um members or members of the public um other than correcting typographical errors which we would normally address. Um then I got a call from um the applicant's attorney uh Jordan Edwards and he too was confused by uh C and D of the conditions. Um I went over them

after Mr. Marks called with staff and I thought for me they were clear. I knew what it meant. Um but then after speaking with uh Mr. Edwards, I realized there there might be some confusion, so I wrote a memo to you all. Um, and we included it in the package today. We sent it to Mr. Marks today. We sent it uh to you all today and we included it in the package online as well. So, it was for clarification purposes. It was the intent overall after Um, we got a complaint from the neighbors in the back. I went out to take a look myself because I wanted to see how the site did not meet the 1984 conditions. In doing so, I noticed areas where some plantings would be viable, and I noticed some areas where it would be impossible to install plantings because of the topography and that fencing would be more appropriate on this side. I thought I had conveyed that to staff in writing the conditions uh for this application, but seeing as these two gentlemen had some confusion, I tried to clarify what I was asking them to put into the conditions. So, can we pull it up, please, so that we can all see it? To me, it doesn't change what's written. It's just a clarification of what's written. And I also included a map so that you could see where the intent was to install plantings where it was feasible

and then fencing where it wasn't really feasible to put in plants. So the green area which is part of the area that u Mr. Edwards had uh drawn in, but I have extended the area to cover a portion of the parking lot off to the right there on the screen. Then to the left is where you see the red or orange line, and that's where the fencing needs to be installed. That's where you have the steepest topography, and there's probably about maybe a foot before it drops off suddenly. And there really is no reasonable way to install any kind of significant plantings that would grow up tall enough to provide any kind of screening. So I thought it was more prudent that we put fencing there. Since the condition of zoning was up to my discretion, that's why I went out. That's why I made this determination and asked staff to draft the conditions. This is just a clarification of that. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. Andy, did that satisfy what you needed? Um, I What time did the email go out that changed the I I don't believe I got it. Did anybody else get it? 3:00 today. Mr. Marks, c can I ask you a favor? Yes. I don't I don't think we need any discussion from you right now. Your chance is coming. I assure you. Okay. But but we respond because she's saying again I didn't ask you. Okay. All right. We good with that? All right. I I'll ask um Michelle, I asked you to send out the email. Can you tell us what time the email went out? Did you send it when?

Sorry, I don't have it. Did you get it? 3:35. You guys didn't get an email. Okay. Well, if I might, please. This is just a p picture of what we were trying to convey in C and D. I didn't change anything. Nothing was changed. The intent of C and D is what you see here. Based on discussions that we've had at our briefings and since, I don't see this is structurally different than what we've been told for the last two weeks. Now, is there a legal issue here? All right, there we go. Uh, no, Mr. chairman, if uh if the condition, the wording of the conditions themselves have not changed, nothing with the site plan or anything else have changed uh since it was submitted to you, you've gone over them in your briefings, if you feel comfortable with that, then uh no, I I don't see a a lack of notice or or any problem like that. It sounds like the memo was just to clarify. There's there's not been an actual change in the wording of the conditions. All

right. Thank you. But it that doesn't appear to be true. Can I have a chance to speak at the appropriate time, sir? Mr. Marks, you need to just sit and we'll get to you when we get to you. Okay. Apparently, without having seen the clarification, the the original language seemed to show that the fence and the plantings needed to be against the property lines of the properties. And now using discretion whether the discretion I think the discretion is certainly allowed for Virginia absolutely there I don't think there's any question about that I do think though that the discretion would come after the decision that seem to make sense is that it's not approved yet um and by Um it just seems that you can't modify a package and and I'm not I don't know exactly what words to use but the integrity of the process has got to be maintained and and integrity is probably is not the right word. I understand that. But the process is the process and and I I I my my feeling is is that we we may have crossed that line. It doesn't change how I feel about how I would vote. I I mean I will I will not vote on this motion because I don't believe I think we need to step back. But the idea of the facts presented don't don't really

change. And I so um I don't know that we can how we address it. Our our legal council says we don't have to, but my own feeling is we do. The one item that I need clarification on from someone is it sounds like the entire neighborhood expected that that fence to cover all those properties and now because you've been out there to see it, Ginger, you're implying some kind of a um um green buffer and then the sixoot and then the fence. So, you're not protecting those houses that originally expected to be protected with a fence. Am I clear on that? So, in going out there and taking a look at the topography and where the houses are, it seemed more prudent um from a visual perspective since the homes behind the green area are at more of an even or a higher elevation than the school. that a fence won't provide as much privacy as plantings will. Plantings will grow and keep growing taller and taller. A fence will stay at 6 feet. So I thought in that area having a fence and plantings is duplicitous. It it's it seems like a waste to me. So, um, I felt that plantings along that one side where there's an opportunity to actually install some. There's actually some property back there where they can actually install them and and hopefully they'll do well. But on the left side, you can't have both. Not Not with the way the topography is. It it slopes dramatically downwards.

There's a about a 30 foot elevation difference from the parking lot of the school down to the houses in the back. So having a fence there should suffice because they're at such an angle they'll be looking up. they'll see the fence if they can see it through the trees because it is quite a as you can see there um it's quite heavily treed uh between the the back of the parking lot and the uh the homes. Now, I will tell you that there is some maintenance that needs to be done back in there. I think there's a lot of invasives that could be uh managed um which would help some of the better material uh flourish a little bit better. Sure. Yeah, Mr. Chairman. Um I I do feel that I I didn't see the email. Um so I would like to have an opportunity to see it. I just have questions. Sorry. Can we pull up page 18 of the package? My package only has 17 pages. So, I just wanted to comment on that, but can you actually go back to the map that we were looking at with the the green and the orange? So, one of the questions I have now um is that area that one of the opposition it brought up is about safety. And I know a lot of what we've been talking about has been kind of the view that you could see from the the residents and protecting that that space in terms of whether they're they're high up or they're low down and kind of coming into the property of the

church. And I understand we have the buffer. How much consideration has been given to access to those properties where we don't have a fence and safety concerns around what um they've mentioned around access to be able to get through. up until the most recent complaint which was um as a result of the application. Um we hadn't gotten any complaints about safety issues back there. Um, I believe we checked with the police department and we hadn't really come up with any complaints where they've had trespassing issues from the school or from the church onto their properties. Is it Sorry, Ginger. In the area where we don't have the additional buffer zone that has to be put in and then maintained is is it not possible within that area to do fencing where you mean like around the curve once to the left you go to the right basically extending behind the houses that are farther to the right. Um, so my when I went out there, that was kind of what I thought would be appropriate. Now, when they go and actually get the permit to do the work, I reserve the right to go out there and say, "You got to put in a few more trees this way, or you need to extend the fence maybe another six or eight feet this way, because, you know, this is this is a rough idea. This is a concept plan. And then once it gets implemented out in the field, I have that authority to say it

needs to go a little bit more this way. I can I can see through to that house over there. I think we need to add a couple of more plants over here. So I reserve that, right? This is just basically a concept of what it should look like. I guess I'm confused about whether is is fencing possible on that side on that side or is it is the way the land is set up and you know I don't understand so on that side sure they can put in fencing I thought that because we have the option of doing either that because the homes on this right side behind the green is at a higher elevation so they're kind of looking down on it that the higher the plants could go, the more screening it would provide of the parking lot there. They're they're really they're really not going to see the column barium. They're they're just going to kind of see the the activity in the parking lot more or less. So, that was my um that was why I suggested the plantings on that side. But, could they put a fence there? Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for that because I think what I'm hearing is that from the residents that one of the concerns is potentially increased traffic, potentially um more activity there and we know neighborhoods change and situations change. um are we not foreseeing a risk of access in the future where a more solid barrier would be appropriate um versus just doing vegetation. So my questions are around making sure we've given them full consideration um on that front if it is a possibility to put it there and there's nothing obstructing us from from protecting those other homes.

wonder um I it seems like the issue of safety has been a longstanding issue just be and and a colarium is I wouldn't think would add to that. It's going to get family members and others who come because they want to um respect and honor the person whose ashes are there. So I'm the safety part does not seem to me to be affected by the colarium. I do have the same hesitations though about and you you said the word integrity may not be the right one. I don't know what else it would be though of the process because I didn't see the memo and there was no indication that the package that we got last week had been changed. Couple more comments if we got miss anybody Robin you guys. Miss Settles and Mr. Porter you want to go again but let Miss Settles go. Sure. Sure. Um just you know what what Sherwin said I totally agree with and um my question is Ginga is it possible that the consideration be made that because I think the concern of the residents is the barriers that they've had the topography they've had is died and nobody's done a lot to keep it up. So what's to change when we tell them we have three feet that are going to grow to 10 feet that could die before it gets to 10 feet then they have nothing. So my question would be is it possible that we put in one of the conditions that we keep that fence going exactly the way the residents expected that fence to be to cover all the houses that they were expecting to be covered.

That's a that's a change in the condition that you can make. Okay. I'm I'm sorry that this isn't coming as to me as clearly as it should be. Paragraph C and D. Are they Are they the amended conditions or are they the original conditions? They're the original as staff drafted them. They are the conditions. They're not affected by the email that came out. My email was just a clarification. That's all. Can Yeah. Can Can you put the So everything the screen that was I mean the picture that was up there just a minute. But everything is the same as of Friday with the insertion of the picture's explanation of what was meant. That was it. Let me see if I can squint and read this. The rear sides of the property from River Springs Drive in Marshia and Court shall be screened from ad adjacent residential properties by an opaque fence at least 6 feet in height where feasibly approved by the director of community development. Your your belief, Ginger, is this picture fulfills that condition? Yeah. Yes. Wow. Got another question. Can you Can you see where that would be very confusing to people? Maybe in maybe if we amend the motion. Okay. Well, well, hold on. Let's let's time out here. First off, we're an advisory group. We're going to advise mayor and city council. We're going to take a vote and we're going to advise them. This is not the law. Mayor and city council are the

law. Secondly, we've as long as I've been the chair, I've avoided trying to change the recommendation like, oh, well, add a roof here or what if you moved this over here? or what if you put in this over here? So, I want to be careful that we don't try to influence the decision of staff, which is where fencing is. Now, that is something the mayor and city council do all the time. They will vote on that and say, "Hey, we think that this entire property should be fenced. We think that there should be security lights. We think whatever it may be." So, I want to make sure that we we don't overstep what our role is, which is to merely make an advisory recommendation to mayor and city council. Okay. So, and then secondly, uh I want to make sure that we're here. We've got legal counsel that has said that this is appropriate, that we're not in any kind of violation. So, with that, I want to close the discussion up here. We have a motion on the floor to approve. We have a second and we're going to call the vote. All in favor? I need a show of hands. So, you're not in favor of your motion? No. Okay. All opposed. And the motion fails. So, at that point, I'm not quite sure where we go from here. Well, you can make you can make another motion if you'd like.

I mean, you you can call for another motion. You can postpone it. You can do you can I mean yeah that a decision needs to be made but there has to be a vote. So I mean the probably the cleanest thing would be to call for another motion. All right. Well then I will call for another motion. Miss Settles you made the initial motion. Would you like to revise yours? I would. Can you please put up the staff's recommendation the conditions? So where was it written however that you were going that where was it written that the colored lines came out differently? It's not. So it's not it's not written about the colored lines. Our condition is the condition as read. My suggestion if we want to include the exhibit we can call it referencing exhibit A which would be the picture that we saw at the end if that were to be something to be included but I want I don't want the motion would include fencing not tobog. Okay. So you can restate your motion how you need it to be. Make sure I'll go back and read this again, but okay. So, to restate the motion, case 2025-00001 U-24-4 301 Johnson Ferry Road, request for a conditional use permit to allow for Colarium to be placed at an existing place of worship campus in the RE2 zoning district. So I make a motion that we approve the recommendation with an additional

consideration or conditional use that the entire barrier be fencing. So all the properties that have been discussed initially it's not topography that goes through there. It is fencing the way the community assumed where feasible because there are areas where I think you can't put up fencing. Was that correct? Okay. No, there was there were areas where it wasn't feasible to put planting for So, we have we have a motion a second. Miss Kelly, I saw you raise your hand. Uh, any discussion necessary or needed on this motion? Nope. All right. Well, I'll call the vote then. We have a motion to approve with the conditions and changes that were identified uh by Miss Settles and second by Miss Kelly. All in favor? So moved. Mr. Chairman, I was thought I would have a chance to address you again. We have 30 days roughly before this case goes between the mayor and city council. We've made we feel an appropriate recommendation to them and uh we thank you for your time. Uh do we have any ongoing business that we need to discuss? Michelle, no ongoing business. We'll have meetings in July, August, and September. We have cases upcoming. All right. Uh any new business? No. That anyone make motion to adjurnn? M Sharon. Motion to adjurnn. Seconded by

settles. All in favor? So moved. Sure. A little more exciting than you were anticipating. Probably definitely from the first one. It was so simple. We had no people come in. I don't know. Thank you for that. I should have jumped the phrase out right here. We are feasible by the director of community. Just taking