Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

that building line is relative as well. Okay, so here's a lot of information. I'm going to summarize it. Scope of work um was originally presented as an addition. Um the applicant is also considering a potential complete replacement. Either way, it doesn't matter because the result will still it'll still result in the reduced setbacks, which are the variances they're requesting. So, just to let you know, that's an eitheror. And again, we have this um eitheror for the sideyard requirement. Um the commercial recreation district does not require as a prerequisite uh to occupancy that there are sideyards. It simply says if there are sideyards then it has to be a total of 15 ft and then it gives uh the ordinance gives you the option of or 15 ft between adjacent buildings um as you know kind of a way out of that if it's appropriate um that was not available in either instance for the for this project. So that's why we have both. And then the existing um requirement or the existing setback for the boat house is about 14 ft from the front lot line. Um the addition this project will result in a front yard setback of 10 ft. Again, we're here because commercial recreation requires a minimum of 30 ft. And as we know, um, that's, you know, we hardly see that setback achieved or, um, existing in, uh, this boat house area of our city. Let's see. So, uh, right now what they're proposing is there's a total on the side of 2 feet or excuse me, four feet total um, [clears throat] with two feet on each side. And so proposed is 1 foot total with half a

foot or six 6 in on each side. Okay, here's a front elevation on this slide on the left hand side of it. Um from the front we can see uh a very similar character proposed building height to the ridge of 23 1/2 ft well below the maximum of 40 ft. Um they have also appeared to consider the proposed finish floor grade which while outside of this board's purview is you know fairly relevant because it has to do with flood plane development which this is located within. Um and they the applicant to the best of our knowledge is also aware of the boat house building code. On the right hand side is a side elevation uh looking at the front. Moving on for now uh staff analysis. So, the existing neighborhood has a mixture of boat houses, single and two family homes, and they all have different zoning. The front yard variance will help the new addition or replacement um home conform to the existing building line, which will help it fit in more with the existing character of the area uh as a neighborhood. Um three, the proposed sideyard variance is appropriate given the clear intent of the regulations. As I mentioned, the the standard to which they're applying a v variance for only says that if sideyards are provided, not that they must be, which is different from a single or two family residential zoning district. Um, so it's no wonder that the buildings all look different because they had different requirements back in the day and still do. Uh, four appears to be aligned with previous similar variance requests in the CO district and all other zoning requirements would be met by this project. uh other department's comments which were forwarded to the applicant um when packets went out, a couple from engineering staff. One is that a downspout will be required um

directing additional storm water to the bay at the rear of the property and that a flood plane development permit must be submitted. And the chief building official advised that the proposed boat house, whether addition or new boat house, must meet the city's boat house regulations. Therefore, staff recommends approval. with the following condition. All applicable permits are obtained through the building department, engineering department, and any other applicable agency prior to construction. Thank you. Thank you. Board have any questions for staff?

Like to hear from [clears throat] um does anybody in the audience wish to speak in favor of this variance? If so, please join us at the microphone up here and state your name. Not in favor. Not in favor. Okay. Anybody who would like to speak in favor of that would be me.

Okay. Stand step up to the microphone. Give us your name and address. My name is Robert Dissau. My address is 10460 Misty Hollow Lane. And that's Kirtland, Ohio. And uh the reason I'm doing this uh building this boat house and asking for the variance is right now it's it's old. It's not built correctly and it's falling into the water. So I want to u build it uh correctly. I want to follow the new codes and I want to make it for a wider boat. Right now it's the boat well is very narrow. It's for, you know, the older wood boats and um and that's why we're asking for the variance.

Thank you. What is the the width of the current boat well? Boat well or the boat house? Boat well. Boat well is 11 foot. And you want to increase that to Well, I'd like to get I have a 13 and 1/2t boat. [clears throat] I want to get that in there. Is there anybody else in the audience who would like to speak for this variant? If not, is there anybody who would like to speak against this variant? So, please

Hey, my name is Tim Burke and I own the boat house adjacent to him and the steel pilings that hold up my house are between us. There's a post in the middle and it goes underneath both houses. And his architect told me he's going to cut it out and whatever happens happens. Now, his father owned the property and told me I could do whatever I want in that twoft space many, many years ago. I've had it for 29 years now. And if you go 6 in from my house, I can never put a screw in the side of my house again. I think that's [clears throat] terrible to go that close to somebody's home and not give them room to work on their home. I have a picture here I can show you. Sure. Um, my wall underneath the house is deteriorated. And this is his boat house. And this is mine. And if you draw a straight line, you can see where I'm leaning towards him.

Tell me again where we're looking. Do you see it? This is his. This is mine. But this is where the steel was straight. And then you can see, look at the top and then look at the bottom. That's probably six inches. Oh, you're you're on the north side. That's correct. Okay. Yeah. And I just think six that's this wall here. That's what I have for the rest of my life. I think that's awful clothes after having two foot. Is there anything in this space at this point? There's a steel piling down the center. And then I can show you pictures. And it's braced under both. Yes, it's braced underneath both houses. That's And is that under the south house, too? Is that all the way? They're all tied together. How many?

Probably six and seven. I don't know for sure. That's where the water's see where the water was. So, this is rotten. And over the years, I I had um a construction company meet with me today to see if I could replace that beam trying to get everything done cuz my boat's hanging in the air. I have no way to get it out and he can't [clears throat] work on it because my boat's in there. I got a letter 3 weeks ago and they said, "Here, this is what he wants to do." So, I'm like, "Wow." Do you have access down to your boat house between the two boat house? Right now, I do. I can walk right through there from steel to steel if I had a plan. So you can get all the way up through those all the way through both houses. Yeah. Very easily. Right now I can.

But you know this wall this steel is that old on that side. And to replace all that and put a beam in there and then after I'm done I got a wall this thick between there that's just don't seem fair. So as you understand it the 13 1/2 ft new would occupy that space. Yes. Yes. It would be flush to yours in the back. It will touch the back right now because [clears throat] the wood's rotted. I mean, if if it was back normal, it would be like over here and it would be 6 in away. But once that wall's up, I can you can never work on that, right? You can't access it from inside your boat house.

Well, the guy that met me told me he can't hardly pull that back in unless he has the space to work on it. The construction guy, there's no room. Where is your property line exactly? It's it's right on the line. You you're you're I'm right on the property. So where you're [clears throat] leaning in the back, is that encroaching? That's encroaching his property. Okay. And if he builds the wall now and that house keeps thinking it's what's going to happen, right?

Have you shared this with the city? Pardon? Have you shared? No, I just found out about this a few weeks ago when I live in Madina, Ohio. So, you have another copy of this. You can keep it. Okay. Whenever you want to see.

So, Adam, what happens on the south side there? What how much room is going to be on the south side between the two there? I'm not sure. And I think this is the north side right now. I'm wondering about the south, too. And um the south is a little feel free to chime in here, but um I'm sorry,

I just said to our law director, feel free to chime in. But as a matter of of a human component of it, I I think it's important that for the property owners to have that dialogue, I don't think this board should serve as an intermediary body um for those concerns because we're dealing with private property. Um, and I don't want to sound I'm just talking like analytically here, not trying to sound cruel, but um the again the code allows for there to be no sideyard setbacks. So it sounds like right now the neighbor to the Mr. Burke, right? Mr. Burke has enjoyed a handshake agreement with the neighbor allowing to more or less trespass on their property to access more easily his property on his side of the line. Um I don't I don't know that this board frankly has the jurisdiction over mediating that. But if you care to comment.

The only thing I'd add is that could be withdrawn at any time. What's that? he could withdraw the ability to trespass on his property, right? If in the absence of any uh access easement or you know other reestablished agreement. So we don't know. So from a practical matter I'm absolutely it's it's no doubt a concern. I don't want to discount that but I don't think it's our business to Is it Mr. Dauour that's for the Okay. on the south side. [clears throat] Do you run up against the neighbor? Your property line is up. So, you're the only one that has any additional property. Is that am I correct in that?

That's correct. That the two feet on both side of my boat house belong to me. Okay. And when you purchase, how long ago did you purchase? 198 97. And you've used it since in the condition that it's currently in? I have up till except you only have 11 foot width boats I understand. Okay. Yeah. At the time, right? A couple questions for staff. The extension of the boat house [clears throat] further into the slip. Mhm. Is that a matter for ODNR or engineers? Army Corps of Engineers. Yes.

Yeah. our building uh the chief building officials uh Scott Tom. Him and I talked about this when it first came in a while ago. Um and he mentioned that uh the applicant told me that he that Scott said he would need a letter of approval from Army Corps before he could approve that portion of it extending. Yeah. And it would have to obviously comply with our boat house rags and the downspout requirement that you're asking for the engineering staff. Is that where it will there be gutters the full length of it or how was that?

I'm not sure exactly how that um is going to be sorted. I think their intention was just to guide the rest of the architectural process. Yeah. Yeah. Rather than allowing it to go on current street, correct? Yeah, that was the intention. So, how exactly that was achieved. I think engineering is leaving up to the applicant. Mr. Chairman, I I don't I don't know what all the talk has been between the neighbors. Uh I'm familiar with those boat houses down there. Uh I think that steel's got to be 50 60 years old anyway. And it's the Isn't it the old railroad track type steel? Isn't that what it is in there? I replaced mine I think 10 years ago. So you did yours,

but you tied it. You still tied it back into your neighbors. Is that what you did? Yes. Okay. Did you get his permission to do that? Yes, he did at the time. No. Nothing nothing in writing. Yeah. All right. Okay. So, Mr. Dishau, when you decide to do this, if you go with a larger boat house, are you planning on doing anything with the steel underneath underneath my boat house? Well, the uh the people that are putting the steel in will have to remove that. Yeah. But you are planning on completely ripping everything out of there and going out to the land. That's my intention right now is to build a a new boat house there.

Has there been any uh talk with the neighbors trying to get together and trying to you'd like to say come up and [clears throat]

I live on the other side. My name is Tracy Fox. I own 833 Current Street with Todd Allenssworth, my husband. And I don't need construction done. I'm not calling in. However, if he does this, it brings us 6 in together. We'll never be able to do maintenance on the side of our home should something happen. Who knows when and if that could happen. Currently, we have steel in between our houses so that uh planks could be put so if either one of us have to work on the side of our home, we can. That'll just be gone. We [clears throat] won't be able to do anything to the side of our home again.

As I understand that steel also goes to the depth, the complete depth of the boat house. Yes. How far apart are the if you know? I you know what? I do not know. I'm a little illprepared in that way. I just got thrown into this. So, welcome. So, basically, if you need to do any work or is it Mr. Burke? Mr. Burke needs to do any work. You have to encroach on Mr. Dau's property right now. You can't do it. You There's no room. There's only 6 in. No, I'm talking about current. If you're doing If you're doing work, you're you're encroaching on his property right now.

Uh, well, it's just always been a friendly situation. understand, you know, we wouldn't even think we had to ask him to put a beam down to work on our house. Um there has

there has been um we're a little bit over like with a deck and a flower bed. And when he got his property surveyed years ago, my husband directly went to him and said, "Hey, you want us to move? You want us to cut that and move? We will immediately." Oh, no. It's okay. you know, [clears throat] it's not it's just a decade a flower bed. It's not a permanent structure or anything. So, it's just it would be a hardship if something happened to the side of our home. And if you can make a boat, [clears throat] do you share foundational steel with their boatous? Yes.

So, all three are tied together steel wise. The the steel No, they're not all three. tied together. The steel comes this way and then on the side of my boat house, it goes across to Todd's boat house and Tracy's and it goes the other way to uh Tim's boat house. It doesn't go straight. I know it doesn't go all the way across. Pilings pilings are common pilings between both sides of Robbiey's house. So, what happens when you pull all those out? My house is no problem. Yeah, you got a problem. Well, so you're going to have to do on left to right side.

The pilings go straight down and then there's a cross beam. That's the cross beam is what has to be removed which is also a support for his boat house.

Well, the cross beam wouldn't they could put it put he has a [clears throat] piling going down that cross beam just kind of ties all this stuff in. So when the ice moves, the pilings stay in place. Mr. Chairman, I know some of this isn't our purview, but I I'm having a kind of an issue tonight in that we're we are short staffed up here, meaning that we either have to be Can I show you a picture? Go ahead. Interrupt. I'm fine if he wants to. What? Well, it's just a matter of Robert's rules.

So, my suggestion is we wait till we get the complete board assembled again. I think it's too important to these folks to either have a a total uh yes vote or have one denial. And I completely understand both sides of it. I understand you have property rights. you're encroaching on their property, even walking down to fix your boat house, but I understand you're not going to be able to fix your boat house any longer. I, you know, some of these boat house disputes, you hope that the neighbors can get together and come to some amicable decision. Um, but uh I [clears throat] you wanted to share a picture, Mr. Burke, before I make any motion.

I agree with Mr. Dillah. We whatever we would decide today is going to go forward to any other boatouses that have the similar problem. And so there's Mr. Dishau's boat house. This is my boat house. Do you see the pilings there? This is the common one in the middle. So if you cut that loose, then there's no What are we looking at? What are these? I You're looking straight straight down. Okay. [laughter] That's one. That's crossing the boat houses and then the steel goes down. Which boat house is yours? Um, this one over here. Okay,

I I blew it up. You can see a little. Okay, that's a better picture. Oh, yeah. So, is that steel all cracked in between there? No, it's a railroad track. Why does it look bad? It came off a railroad. It's really thick. I lost your picture. Okay. [clears throat] Motor. Thank you.

Um, again, you have common property with the the piling. You have issues with trying to get in to maintain. You have issues when you rip down the boat house to your neighbors both north and south. And again, I don't know without an entire board that we want to give a yay or nay. So my my suggestion is that we table it until we can get an entire board together. Is that we're not even going to have one next month, would we? And the whole board I haven't gotten an application yet. Okay. To put that in form of a motion. Uh do you have anything else?

No. The only other thing I was going to say, this is not just something that's going to affect these two boat houses once we make a decision on how you come together and it goes forward. It's not just, you know, somebody come back and says, "Oh, on uh, you know, this date you did this and so we want to do the same thing and we're going to be facing the same issue." So, see, we have to give the variance in order for you to get forward. But if we give that, then it it messes up your north and south neighbors. It would become a civil matter is the thing. What's that? It would just become a civil matter is how I understand the legal process. So they would have to be sorted out between themselves since it is common process.

Wouldn't it be a civil matter? Even if we if we turn it down tonight, they could go ahead civily and try to get things corrected that way. [clears throat] uh if they pursued an alternate design uh to code requirements because theoretically again code doesn't require a sideyard. Mr. Dau could have submitted a zero foot setback and I mean that would have been um on the one half of that either or standard that would have been okay there but the adjacent buildings that would have still triggered but

so if it's uh Mr. If it's a zero lot line, it does do you have to have a party wall agreement or anything in place or how do you No, the walls can be built just like downtown, you know, right next to each other. They've done that on Parker last year. But those neighbors all got together right there, right? They they were all they all agreed to what they were doing. Do you want to call the lady? No, they're all common walls on Parker. Speaking.

Did you want to add something?

We found out about this when we got a letter from the city. There was no neighborly talk as neighbors with Bob. All of us have upgraded our properties, pouring concrete, done all kinds of things while has sat and rotted, never weeded. We all took turns weeding his property and just so we can stand looking at it and now he drops this bombshell because he wants a bigger boat. It's like what is happening here? And it's a pretty big decision. I mean, and I agree. I I don't want to short shift either side here. And I I think if we get more input from more members, I'll I'll make a motion that we table it until next month's meeting, hoping we get a better

crowd here. Call roll call on that motion.

Um, William Seammens, yes. Kevin Zire, yes. Dan Delahunt, yes. I I will merely make a suggestion. It's not any guidance from anybody but me, but I would certainly suggest that [clears throat] [cough] you as neighbors do a little work amongst each other and see if we can come up with a common solution before we bring this off the table at Yeah. Do you have an association in the area?

No, they don't. Yeah. No association. Okay. Um, the next item on our agenda is an application that was submitted by Welcome Home Great Lakes LLC on behalf of the city of Sunduski for property it owns at 1704 Buchanan Street for a variance to construct a new single family dwelling through the Welcome Home Ohio program with a rear yard setback of 16 ft. Whereas six section 1129.14 requires a minimum rear yard setback of 29 ft. Staff.

Yes, thank you. Um, as we can see in this slide, the 1704 Buchanan Street is zoned RMF multifamily residential district. The right hand side is a better image of uh the property from an aerial perspective. And we can see the surrounding zoning is uh a mixture of other multif family, two family and single family zoning. Uh on the left hand side of the screen is the Buchanan Street elevation. These are recently taken photographs. on the bottom right is from Clay Street. Uh which would be the sideyard. Um this is right on the outside edge of the MacArthur Park neighborhood for reference.

So on the I'm sorry, the outside outside edge of MacArthur Park neighborhood. Okay.

Uh here is the proposed site plan from the applicant. Uh scope of work. Again, the home is being constructed as part of the city of Sunduski's Welcome Home Ohio program and is currently under purchase contract slated for construction in December 2025 or January 2026. On the bottom right hand side of that uh red outline is the setback requiring the variance. Uh otherwise, we see a sideyard to the left with a driveway uh running a decent length of the house. Um, and on the uh north part of the house rectangle, there is a uh proposed front porch/deck with some landscaping. Moving on for now, staff analysis is that first uh granting this variance will help the future owner enjoy a similar footprint, especially in terms of home depth and yard space as many other residential lots in the neighborhood. two, the yard space will mostly be on the side of the home on the interior part of the lot instead of to the back. Uh, but this is actually common uh for houses on corn corner lots throughout the city. Um, and because the the yard space itself, albeit on the side, is still

[snorts]

um ample. It will still mitigate storm water surface runoff onto or from adjacent properties, which is arguably the intent of the rear yard setback requirement as it is. Three, because of recently passed text amendments, the homeowner will also be able to build 6ft tall fencing in the sideyard, um, providing the potential for more privacy and for it to feel like a a backyard of sorts. and four, all other zoning code requirements would be met by the proposed single family dwelling. Therefore, staff recommends approval with the following condition. All applicable permits are obtained through the building department, engineering department, and any other applicable agency prior to construction. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh is there anybody in the audience who would like to speak in favor of this variance? I'm here to answer questions if you have any, but otherwise the presentation is what we wish to have. Thank you. Does the board have any questions for gentlemen or staff? [clears throat] It seems to me it's bringing as much as possible consistency to the lots in the area. Same width, depth. In this case, you're going to have a side lot that's a little bigger than the front or the back,

but again, the the width of the lot is is basically uh consistent with the other ones in the area. Seems to me to be a And it is an existing lot, too. Yeah. This drawing with Yeah. the one that's up. The shaded part is that building that'd be a tree. Yeah. the shade or the crosshatch? You mean the shaded branches? [laughter] The this the part with the five circles along the front right there.

Uh that is Yes, that is the front porch. And then if you follow that south, you'll see a dark slightly darker um line uh of the the rectangle outline. That's the the main home part. is that building that building appears to be further towards the street than the neighboring buildings. [clears throat] Which which portion? The like which cardinal direction? The northern wall of the building. The western wall, not towards Clay Street, but towards Buchanan.

Uh oh, that is the So that's a front entrance feature because that's a front porch. um and those are permitted to encroach or project up to eight feet past the minimum required front yard setback. So they followed um community development staff's guidance in drafting that too. That's in the code. Yeah, Mr. Chairman, are are these the modular homes, the twotory modular homes that have been Yes, they are. So that neighborhood has do you have any idea if there are any uh owner occupants immediately in that neighborhood there?

Uh the house in that neighborhood that I saw other than a split level across the street is uh single I mean it's a single story [clears throat] probably about 14 or 1500 square feet if that much. This is how big square feet it's 1300. That's three bedrooms, two baths. So, do we know if any owner occupied? Apparently, there was nobody that said anything, right?

Yeah, the letters did go out according to our ordinance. Um, we did not uh receive any feedback for this uh application uh one way or the other. Uh but letters, neighbors were notified. Um, whenever we have a situation where there's a tenant but they don't own the property, uh, it's it goes to I believe our practice is to the occupant, the tenant as well as the tax payer mailing address. So that way the actual property owner, but the occupant too are both notified. Um, and [clears throat] but even then it was we did not receive. So we we understand that there's a contract on the property that'll be owner occupied.

Yes. How long did it go ahead?

If you could state your name and the record. Uh I'm Joe Richie and I'm with Community Building Partners. Welcome Home Great Lakes. The owner of the property. So we've completed the sale transaction of the property. Um so the sale of the lot. Yeah. The lot. Okay. So, the welcome home program requires it to be sold to an owner occupant. They're required to live in it as an owner occupant for 5 years. There's a 20-year restrictive covenant relating to the property. So, it continues to be affordable home ownership for the community for How does that work? Pardon?

How does that part of it work? So, they got to keep it for five years. What's the other 15? they can they can sell the property after 5 years to another homeowner but that homeowner has to meet the income requirements of the program. So basically the state has provided a grant to the city of Sundowski to encourage workforce housing but they want to make sure it continues to be owner occupied for a 20-year period. That's the nature of the program. So is that five years plus 20 or five years? It's five years five years for the original occupant and then 20 years to make sure that it's continues to be affordable. What happens at the end of 20 years? Does that the restricted covenant is released after 20 years? So they can sell it, tear it down, build a new one, whatever.

Somebody could do that, I suppose. But, you know, it continues to happen. Yeah. You you have a number of these houses around town now, right? Yes. Same program, exact same. And so we're Are you worried at all about fitting into the neighborhood with a twotory with [clears throat and cough] all the other singlestory houses right around you there? Well, we're comfortable with that. You know,

it it is uh it's it's it this design fits manyiz lots. And one of the features of it is and the reason for the variance is the design has a a bedroom and a bath on the first floor to make it more easily adaptable for ADA compliance. And that was one of the things the city was concerned about was making sure the broadest number of people could access the homes. As a result, that extension of the first floor, which is, I think, 55 ft deep, does create um the need for the variance in the backyard. However, the houses have a wraparound porch and the sideyard is decent size. I think it's 31 ft. So, that so the sideyard actually is the way the person would live in the house. The the uh it has a side door that opens into that sideyard. It has a wraparound porch that makes it accessible. So that's that's where the outside uh space would be.

And I know this isn't part of the our deal, but what kind of money we talking about as far as affordable? The home buyer is for this house is paying $160,000. Okay.

The total price of the house is above 260. So the grant that comes from the state is approximately $100,000. The home buyer is paying would be paying about $1,000 a month in mortgage taxes and insurance. So that makes it affordable. The folks that are buying it have to have incomes 80% median income or lower, but they must qualify for a mortgage. So that the the income range is probably 50 to 80% median income. Are is there a bank or several banks that are participating in this program?

Several banks are participating. Uh, [clears throat] Seista Bank has provided the construction financing and they're doing a number of the permanent loans, but there are other lenders involved in it as well. Okay. The city of Sundusky's program is one of the most robust in the state. So, it's it got a large grant and they're according to the state doing a great job. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. It's your pleasure, gentlemen. Point at me. Um, I would move to approve this request. Uh, I guess I'll second, but I I I guess it doesn't have anything to do with us, but I I these type of houses that being built, these modulars, sometimes I think it kind of defeats the whole purpose of what we're trying to do in town about upgrading the neighborhoods. I I kind of see a problem down the road. So, this is a $260,000 house in a neighborhood that doesn't support 260. So, I I but I will I'll keep my mouth shut in a second. [laughter]

Too late. Okay. Um, please call the role on that motion. Dan Delahunt, yes. Kevin Zire, yes. William Seammens, yes. Is there anything further? No further items. This board, did you I hear you say that you didn't have any application? As of right now, I do not. Oh, wait a minute. Now we're on for the uh boat house now, aren't we? Um, you did table it, I believe, to the next meeting. Um, I think we just tabled it. I don't know if we specified a You did say to the next meeting. Did we say to the next meeting? No.

Um, I'm not sure. Let's see. Before I turn, I want to look at my calendar and make sure that Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. December December 18. I know it's getting to that time. Yeah, I got it already on Yep. I've got it. Um, we need a motion to adjurnn. We need a motion. Need a motion. So move. Second.

Second. All in favor say I. I'll call you right back. I Where are you?