Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. This is Chair Dave Hton. I would like to call this regular meeting of the planning commission to order. And please join me now in the pledge of allegiance. [Music] Three, two, one. Here we go. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America to the standy for all. Thank you. At this time, we'll hear public comment for any items that are not on tonight's agenda. Agenda. Um, these items are generally referred to staff. If action by the commission is necessary, then it could be scheduled for a future meeting. City clerk, do we have any public comment for items not on tonight's agenda? No, we do not. Okay. Next order of business is to consider the minutes. And before we vote, do any commissioners have comments on the consent agenda? Oh, roll. Is that on here? How about roll for tonight? Commissioner Munos Morris here. Commissioner Kulie here. Oops. Commissioner Khan here. Commissioner Jorgensson here. Vice Chair Tley here. Chair Hton here. Thank you for that. Okay. Do we have any commissioners with comments on the consent agenda or request a poll? Seeing none, do we have a motion and second to approve the consent agenda? I would move to approve consent. We have a motion. Second. We have a second. Any co any uh discussion before we vote? Hearing none, please call the role. City clerk. Commissioner Kulie. Yes, Commissioner Moon Morris. Yes,

Commissioner Khan. Yes, Commissioner Jorgensson. Yes, Vice Chair Tully. Yes, Chair H. Yes. Okay, moving right along. It's time for the public hearings. Any court challenge to action taken on public hearing items on this agenda may be limited to considering only those issues raised at the public hearing or in written correspondence delivered to the city of St. Louis Abyspo at or prior to the public hearing. If you wish to speak, please give your name and address for the record and please limit your comments to 3 minutes. Item 4 A on our agenda is the public hearing item for re-review of an existing conditional use permit for the fraternity located at 720 Foothill Boulevard. So, at this time, I'll ask commissioners for any disclosure of exparte communications that may have occurred regarding this matter. I'll look first to this side. Seeing none, to the side. Seeing none. Okay. So, would assistant planner Mallerie Patino please present your staff report. Hello and thank you for having me. I am assistant planner Mallerie Patino. I will be presenting on the uh fraternity conditional use permit re-review uh application number use 0334 2025. I will begin with our recommendation for the commission planning commission's recommendation for the planning commission. Staff recommends the commission review the existing conditional use permit for consistency with the general plan and zoning regulations to either one, modify the conditional use permit based on updated findings and subject to revised conditions of approval or two revoke the

use permit. I'll start with the project site. It is zoned highdensity residential R4 zoning addressed at 720 Foothill Boulevard. It's a developed property with an apartment building containing a total of 12 bedrooms. The lot has direct access from East Foothill Boulevard. It's adjacent surrounded by other R4 zone properties. Across the street is commercial uh retail uh like shopping center and it's about 3/4 of a mile walking from Calpali campus. In April of 1991, the planning commission approved a use permit for the fraternity Delta Oopson to operate at the multifamily apartment complex, then addressed as 720 and 726 Foothill. This permit was numbered U1515. The approval limited residents to a maximum of eight people living there and routine meetings and gatherings to a maximum of 15 people. Over the course of 1991 to 1997, there was various annual reviews and reviews and appeals relating to use of a storage area as a bedroom or a recreation room. Modifications occurred at various points. However, 2009, the property owner, which is the fraternity, proposed redevelopment of the site. Redevelopment would have cons was proposed to consist of demolishing the two existing residential structures that were on the site and the site improvements to construct a new multi-story fraternity building and associated parking. In June 2009, the planning commission approved the modification to the use permit. It was processed as U369. This allowed the new development as a fraternity for Delta oopsilon. Approval superseded all previous use permit and modification appro approvals. It has been in place since 2009. Approval

limited its residents to a maximum of 14 people and gatherings or routine meetings to a maximum of 21 people. However, the site has been used as a fraternity dating all the way back to 1991, not just 2009. Um, a little background on the fraternity, the history of violations. In the previous academic year, September of 2024 to June 2025, there were five police department citations, all for noise violations. One of these citations was successfully appealed. One of the citations did include a note that more than the maximum allowed people were present. It's 21 per condition number eight of the use permit. Code enforcement issued a notice of violation um for violating their use permit in relation to the police department noise violations. Uh subsequently, administrative citations were issued in February and March of 2025 issuing fines of $50 and $100. 50 in February, 100 in March. And that's in relation to the original notice of violation. The scope of this re-review uh is due to the violations. The conditional use permit has been brought forward to the planning commission documented as application number use 0334 2025. Condition number nine of U3609 states that no meeting parties or other activities that violate our noise ordinance or exceed the maximum allowed 21 people for gatherings shall be allowed. Condition number 14 of the use permit says failure to comply with any condition or any conduct that constitutes a public nuisance may constitute grounds for revocation of the permit. Condition 13 of the use permit states that the permit shall be reviewed upon receipt of complaint by the

planning commission. Any re-review may result in added modified or removed conditions or revocation of the permit. Um we were all here about a month ago. The municipal code changes are very similar. I'll still review them for reference uh here. Since 2009, municipal code has been updated for different uh things that relate to this topic. So requirements for approval for conditional use permits and for fraternities have been updated. standard fraternity conditions that were updated as a comprehens in the comprehensive update in 2018 related to limiting the allowed number of residents, regulating attendees for routine meetings and gatherings, requiring affiliation and good standing with Kalpali and establishing responsible fraternity contacts since 2009. There have also been updates to title nine of the municipal code, public peace, morale, and welfare. Code requirements are related to noise, public disturbance, other disorderly conduct. The requirements apply to all uses in the city regardless of if there's a cup, an MUP, or any other permit in process or applicable to a property. This section relates to the sections related to fraternities are referenced here. They prohibit noise generating acts, unruly gatherings, and enhance penalties during specific times of the year to help protect public peace. Diving into our project analysis. As I've mentioned, the planning commission's role here is to consider the violations and changes to the municipal code to determine what modifications, if any, to the use permit conditions are necessary for the planning commission to make the required findings for continued use of the property as a fraternity or if the planning commission cannot make the required findings to revoke the permit.

The first option uh is modification of the use permit if planning commission can make the findings to allow the continued use of the property as a fraternity. Accounting for the changes in the municipal code, revised conditions are shown on this slide. These conditions relate to address the recent violations concerns for noise and loud gatherings and to provide consistency with other recent fraternity use permit approvals. If planning commission can make the findings to continue, the revised conditions do not include the listed conditions on this slide. These conditions were related to property improvements, mostly due to the redevelopment in 2009 and other ARC approvals, permitting requirements at that time and have all since been satisfied. Uh, in regards to the second option, revocation of the use permit. If the planning commission cannot make one or more of the required findings for continued use of the property as a fraternity, the planning commission may revoke the permit per municipal code section 17.102.020C7. Uh, the findings required uh are listed in the staff report for ease of reference and the code sections are listed on this slide. That mostly concludes. As I mentioned, our recommendation is to review the use permit for consistency with the general plan and zoning regulations or any other policy documents and either modify the use permit with revised findings and conditions of approval or revoke the use permit. I am available for any questions uh as is John Mezipza from code enforcement and Brian Alaroso, deputy chief of slow PD. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Patino. So, planning commission members, do we have questions of staff after the staff presentation?

Looks pretty quiet. Okay, we have time now for the applicant presentation. In this case, the applicant is the C holder, which is the fraternity itself. All right. So, uh do we have a member present? We do. Okay. You have 10 minutes, sir. and give us your name and tell us what you have to tell us. Excellent. Well, good evening members of the commission. Thank you for allowing me to um speak to you tonight on behalf of the Delta Salon fraternity and the Alpha Up Salon Alumni Corporation. My name is Terry Reeves. I'm president of the alumni corporation and that's why I've been chosen to speak to you this evening. Um for the last 70 years, Delta Salon has been a part of the St. Louis Abyspo community. We were founded in 1955 and through our houses that started on Garden Street, moved to to Marsh to Palm. We are now have been at Foothill Boulevard since 1991 where we feel has been the best place for us all these years, you know, and our goal since that time and it continues today is to develop and support young men at Calpali during the most formative years of their lives. you know, we all here tonight um experience that and are part of our commitment back to our our chapter is to allow them to experience the same things we did. Um so what's really changed over those last 70 years? You know, we've been part of the community all these times and all these years the city's changed. Um we could say that, you know, over 70 years, has parties become more intense over the last 20, 30, 40 years? Have residents become less tolerable of the inconveniences of living in student housing or around student facilities? You know, all of those are valid, but at the end of the day, I think it comes back to the city has a student problem. We have a lot of students. There are more students in St. Louis than there ever have been. The school is continually accepting more and we want them to come. Cowpali is great. St. Louis is great. We all love coming back here and that's why, you know, we are so passionate about our fraternity and what

we do and give back. So when you look at the student population, it's not, you know, we struggle with fraternities and fraternities give everybody a great target to look at, but we look at it as a student population problem and and the more students we have, the more forced inside the communities, inside the residential areas, create more chances for conflict and issues between students and residents. And I think as fraternities come through this, we are the easy scapegoat. But at the same time, I think fraternities provide a lot of oversight to some of the activities that we have through IFC and the things that the schools put on fraternities specifically. It really puts fraternities in a better position to help be part of the solution than really the problem because again we come back to the problem is more of a student problem. There are a lot of students and just because use permits go away or fraternities go away, it's not going to solve interaction between residents and students in undesirable ways. So we as an alumni corporation, we've been around for a long time. We have over a thousand members and are very strong and never been stronger as a corporation and an organization that we have right now. We are very supportive and understand the seriousness of all of these issues and work as an alumni board to help educate and keep our active members informed of what the rules are. Now, at the same time, we're going to say we're not perfect. You know, we send our kids to college and we hope they make good decisions. Sometimes you get the phone call and you're like, "Guys, why'd you do that? You got to go to class or various things." It's no different here. We are a group of alumni helping mentor and bring along our young men. And there are going to be hiccups throughout the way, right? But through our mentoring and oversight, you know, we are here to help them and help the city become, you know, good residents and neighbors together. Um as part of that to help facilitate that we as an executive board are working through establishing an actual position that will be part of the city and part of our you know their focus will be to

work with the city use permit maintain that level of communication so we have continually or we have continuity between the active chapters that honestly rotate every four to five years. Every 5 years we have brand new people coming in there and it's up to us and we take that responsibility to keep them educated as to what they're they need to be doing to stay within good standings on the use permit. Um but really back to to where we're at. We're not perfect. We're going to be working through all of this. We want to be at the forefront of any discussion that the city has about any long-term solutions regardless of how you decide to vote tonight. I think this is a real problem and we as Delta Upsilon and NLP Usilon Alumni Corp want to be at the front with the city with the residents putting POS, you know, making policies that we can all live by because we all want to coexist the same way we have for the last 70 years. Um, I think we as fraternities bring so much to the community as outlined in some of the public comment that was submitted and I think we want to just continue fostering that relationship to something that everybody can live with. Thank you very much. questions for me. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Reeves. Um, you might as well hang out there for a minute uh because the next thing is I'll ask uh commission members if they have questions of the applicant and I'll start on this side. Any questions? Yes, Commissioner Culie, thank you for your uh your statement and for appearing here tonight. Um, if you watched previous hearings about fraternities, you may be familiar with the question I'm about to ask you, which is if this commission votes to allow this permit to continue, we need to make a series of findings. We need to be able to make a series of findings. One of them that I've been stuck on before is given the history of violations that we've heard about at this location, how can this commission be assured that continued operations will not be a

detriment to the health, safety, and welfare of the community? When we look at what fraternities bring to communities, it's more than just what gets reported through a simple call to the police. you know, there are a lot of violations, a lot of calls that don't end up in violations or any citations, right? So, as we go through, we again, we're going to say we're not perfect. There's a lot of students in town. There's a lot of other noise violations going on across the facil across the town. And we are doing our best to keep our young active chapters in line on any given day. Things can happen and we can't necessarily police that. All we can do is educate and help them understand what they do for their community and how they need to be better stewards than they have been. and that's what we're committed to continually bringing forward and helping them. It's not easy. Again, I'm not going to say we're perfect. They have a lot to work on and we have a lot to work on with them. But I think the benefits that fraternities bring to communities far outweigh some of the nuances and and nuisances that come with it at times, right? I think we look at the the philanthropies and the monies and the and the what we give back as alumni far exceed and and outweigh some of the detriments that that are concerning. And just to follow up, um towards the beginning of your statement, you framed it as not being I think you said not a fraternity problem, but a student problem. Could you expand on that what you mean by that? Well, I think the more students you have in a community, I mean St. Louis Bispo has you know we can all look at how much housing has been built here since you know I graduated in 99 between now and then the student population has grown significantly and the campus is building housing we see it all over the place it's great we need more of it but until that happens all of those students have to reside somewhere in the city and whether not necessarily in a fraternity house but putting more students in a denser population it just increases the it increases the potential for incidences and conflict between the

residents and students and and I don't think fraternities are unique to that and I think that's why it needs to be looked at more of a student problem. There are a lot more students here than there were 30 years ago and I don't think that there's housing to cover that and it's going to cause more conflict. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. I see no waving of hands on this side. I have a couple of questions for you, Mr. Reeves. Sure. So, uh, I'm first of all, I appreciate that you're here because in the past for fraternity discussions like this, we've had a member of the fraternity, which is also good and fine, but you appear to present some some sort of continuity that persists beyond the conveyor belt of students that come through Kpali and the fraternities. So, thank you for that. And that said, I'm I'm I'm unfamiliar with the corporation aspect of the Greek system. So is it an actual corporation? Are you hold on sorry um are you a paid staff on that or are you a volunteer? We're volunteers. The way we are function um you hear you hear Alpha Salon and Deltup Salon. We originally were founded as Alphub Salon 7 years ago but virtually the same. And so we've established a nonprofit corporation for our alumni and it's all volunteers. I'm an alumni. Everybody on our corporation we call it a corporation but it's really a C3 a nonprofit C3 that we use for tax purposes. So the corporation, we call it a corporation, but it's not a a business per se. It's very much a nonprofit, and that's how we operate. I'm the president, recently elected, and we have a board of directors and bylaws and and and and a full, you know, charter that we follow as part of that corporation. Okay. So, are you national then? We are not national. We're local. We are a local corporation. Delta Cowpoly for we're only here. We are part of Delta International, which our chapter is part of the international fraternity. Um it's a little different. And our alumni

corporation is a separate C3 that we work as alumni and manage as alumni of Calpal. So you're a local and you live here in St. Louis. I do not live in St. Louis Bispo. I live up in the Bay Area. Okay. So but you are the president of a California based 501c3. Correct. That is a nonprofit that exists really to organize the alumni of Delta and Alpha Oops. I won't get into why there's two of them and that they're the same even though they sound different, but okay. So, that's um All right. Thank you for helping me out. Do you deal with other chapters of uh these fraternities in other cities and have there been other uh hearings like this that you've been able to uh come and speak at or have to come and speak? You know, we are very um our our alumni are very local centric, right? other chapters and other colleges their their alumni might be a little more international centric. You know, we focus and we exist solely to support our active chapter. We have a facility. We're landlords. You know, we built this great house a couple years ago and and that's, you know, we exist to support them. We bring in over $100,000 in donations locally and we give out over $15,000 in scholarships back to our active chapters. So, are there chapters at for example UCLA and are you involved with those as well? is just for this just we are just cowpoly we are all Calpali alone okay thanks for clearing that up that's it for that I have for questions of view right now so um thank you very much thank you we have if we stop time on our thing can we have somebody else speak on our we stop the clock at 6:04 um I think that's allowed right they get you get your 10 minutes so sure Start the clock back up. Thank you for the accommodation. Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of the planning commission. I'm Juan Fernandez and I'm act and I'm the active alumni

relations chair of Delta Salon at Kpali. My role is to help coach our graduating alum active members to network with fellow DeltaUpson alumni as they prepare to enter the working world. Our alumni are our alumni organization takes pride in helping our members prepare for the world post kpali. We have brothers across the globe in every industry, finance, engineering, construction management, and myself, I'm a principal engineer for Micron, building high bandwidth memory systems for artificial intelligence with Google and Meta. As you've heard previously, in April, we celebrated our 70th anniversary of the fraternity as Kalpali's longest continually recognized fraternal organization. We had members from some of those early pledge classes from the 1950s participating in the event. Some of the attendees are in their 80s. Mr. Coxshot is from the fifth pledge class from 1961 here to speak later this evening. In addition to my role as an alumni adviser, I'm also the chairman of the Elkrove Planning Commission. If you're not familiar, Elkrove is a very diverse suburb with a population of roughly 180,000 people near Sacramento. Our community development director is a Kpali alumni. Our planning commission council is Kpali alumni. and one of our city council members is also a cowpoly grad and was a member of the sigma new fraternity. I'm often reminded when I take the deis for a meeting that the first time I held a gavvel was as the president of the delta salon fraternity. I didn't realize at the time the leadership skills I was gaining would help me throughout my career and they have immensely and that's the point I would like to leave you with this evening. Our fraternity looks to build better men and to help them gain leadership skills not learned in a classroom. Regardless of the outcome of the vote this evening, know that we are committed to working with the city to continue our 70-year legacy at Kalpali and to be a lighthouse fraternal organizations organization that serves as an example for other fraternities to follow. As has

been discussed, our property is located in an R4 highdensity residential zone along a commercial corridor and is compatible with the intended use as a fraternity chapter house. We agree with the conditions presented in the staff's report. Thank you for your consideration to amend and not revoke the use permit for Delta Salon. I'm glad to answer any questions. Thank you, Mr. Fernandez. Um, I do have one other question that could go either to you or to Mr. Reeves and that has to do with the satellite houses. Can you uh describe a little bit how many satellite houses there are associated with Delta Yupsilon and um what if anything uh happens at those satellites? Are they just residences or are there parties there as well? So my understanding of satellite houses is that there are some members that choose to live closer to campus and some of them may have uh more than one active member living um at a residence. There may be the entire population of a given house um which is a private residence not owned or or leased by the fraternity but those individual members of the fraternity and um they uh can have events on their own. um they are not sanctioned. Um but I understand that that is one of the concerns of the resident group um that have uh brought their concerns to the planning commission that the satellite houses um are in R1 and R2 uh neighborhoods and they present a bigger issue than our fraternity house located on on Foothill Boulevard. So if uh the satellite houses is something that needs to be um discussed as part of the uh amendment and I believe I I saw there was a a question about satellite houses. We would love to have the opportunity to discuss with the commission. Okay. So you're saying that events or parties that happen at satellite houses uh that are occupied by Delta Upsilon

fraternity members are not sanctioned by the fraternity. Correct. Okay. It's just like any other group. Try to swallow that. Um Okay. Um any other questions? Okay. Sure. Any other questions of the applicant? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Fernandez. Thank you. Well, it's time for public comment now. And city clerk, do we have any yellow slips for public commenters this evening on this item? Yes, we do. The first speaker is James Spriggs, then McKenzie L, and then John Hatfield. And how many slips do we have total just for planning? Six. Okay. Six right now. Okay. So, the first three have just been called. So, your if your name was uh first in that list, you are up. You got three minutes. And then if you're two or three, you can just be ready to speak after um the first person and we'll continue till we hear from all six. Okay. Um hello. Uh my name is WDE Spriggs. I'm the current chapter president of the Delta Upsilon fraternity. I'm here to speak upon on behalf of the active chapter. Uh I want to start by saying that every day the brothers of my chapter strive to uphold our values of building better men. We do so by by completing on average 600 hours of community service. Many of those hours go back into the community of slow and the surrounding areas. Beyond that, we have long-standing philanthropic events that raise close to $10,000 annually. Uh across each of our events, uh we donate to charities such as St. Jude Lum Lumina Alliance and K9 Companions.

Um, beyond that, uh, I hope my presence and the presence of my brothers, uh, show a fuller picture of what we are and who we are, not just as a fraternity, but also as a group of dedicated individuals who care deeply about giving back, supporting meaningful causes, and contributing positively to St. Louis Abyispo community. We take pride in the service we do, the values we uphold, and the growth we foster within our chapter. While no group is perfect, I ask that we not be reduced to a list of infractions, but rather recognized for the full scope of our efforts and impact. I thank you guys for your time. Thank you. Good evening, planning commission. My name is McKenzie and I am the property manager for an apartment complex in the foothill chor neighborhood that backs up to the Delta Opsilon frat house. I'm here on behalf of our 28 tenants to urge your commission to take decisive action to address the repeated noise violations stemming for the from the fraternity house. Over the past several years, we've experienced nearly nightly disruptions from extremely loud parties and gatherings. This includes loud booming music and people yelling and screaming. However, this is not limited to just weekend nights. The frat house has also held disruptive daytime parties with loud music, and residents yell even during casual activities like basketball games in the parking lot. These noises are so intrusive that even fully shut apartments don't protect our tenants. The noise is still heard even with all the doors and windows shut. I would like to point out that of our 28 tenants, about twothirds are working adults, but the remaining third are Kpali students, including student athletes. In the time that I've been the apartment manager, we've seen the

student tenants turn over usually every 1 to two years. And we've never had a behavior, noise, or conduct issue with any of our student tenants. We have a very quiet and respectful apartment complex complex overall with all of our tenants. As the apartment manager, I've received complaints from numerous tenants, both working adults and students, that the noise violations disturb their sleep, their weekends, and their work or school schedule. Despite several phone calls to the police and multiple attempts to engage with the fraternity's leadership directly, these disturbances have persisted. This is far more than an annoyance for our tenants. It's a violation of their right to quiet enjoyment and directly harms their health, well-being, and livelihood. Planning Commission, I urge you to consider revoking the fraternity's conditional use permit. Our tenants and the broader community deserve rest, peaceful days, and the ability to enjoy their home. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Next up, Dr. John Hatfield. It's going to be Brad H, Lisa McKenzie, and Doug McKenzie. Hi. Uh, my name is John Hatfield. I'm a mechanical engineering graduate from 2010. Uh from 2010 until present, I have been um member of the alumni executive board for Delta Ulon. And the reason that I've been on the board for that duration of time is trying to ensure that the same benefit of a fraternity that was given to me that really helped develop me into someone that could uh go out there, become a professional and really start my career um with the step up above other people that did not have that same experience and make sure that that is guaranteed to continue on those resources for future students and future members of the fraternity. Um during that time I was involved in the planning, execution of the demolition and construction of the new

structure at the 720 East Foothill Boulevard. And that alone was a a huge benefit uh to me and my growth. And again, we did that uh self- financed. Um I hope that lets you know how dedicated we are to this fraternity, this community. And uh during the time in school, I hope that it's understood that these members of our fraternity, they're not just students and members of the fraternity. They are working in your community. They are working in retail. They are working in service and they're working in other areas of the community that are a benefit to them. And I hope that they are seen as part of the community and that you choose to not revoke the conditional use permit and engage us in a thoughtful uh conversation on how to strengthen our community and their part in it. uh rather than draw a line that might push us further apart. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Hatfield. Next. Good evening. Thank you for your time. Uh my name is Brad and I live in the two-story building that backs up to the frat house, which is a three-story building. Our bedroom windows are about 20 ft away from their building, and their parking lot extends towards us and is about 5t away. Some of the issues I have with them is uh when their parties conclude, usually between 11 and 1:00 a.m. there are lots of loud groups leave leaving that go wandering down the uh way shouting around. Lots of cars pulling over for pickups. Ubers called and groups of kids running across the road. The road gets congested. Uh cars start honking. It's like a small version of the downtown bar scene uh for an hour. Uh, also the kids sometimes jump our little wall barrier and walk through our facility and have broken some minor things. Another issue is their parking lot which they use as an as an an extension of their event space. They use it for basketball set up uh right in

front of our windows. They have set up electrified instruments and a full drum kit and play that in the parking lot. And during parties there is um urination outside on the outskirts right under our windows. Um another issue is what I assume to be their fraternity rituals that happen at random times including 2 and 3 in the morning on their upper floors. It sounds like some large coordinated stomping exercise. I will jolt awake to this with my window shaking. I don't know what it is but it sounds like a fridge falling down the stairs. Um, the whole nature of the frat house is different from a regular apartment complex. It's not random strangers. It's a group of students that all kind of do the same thing. There's always some loud outburst or party or round of basketball or drinking game or some epic sports bar-like moment that makes them very disruptive and difficult to live next to. They have left flyers with their phone numbers asking us to text them instead of calling the police, stating that quote, "When the police are called, it often causes more disruption than it prevents. Large groups tend to move outside all at once, creating more noise than the music itself." End quote. I think that's kind of self- admitting and proves their awareness of the situation they're causing. I have tried messaging them on several occasions and they responded wanting me to be hyper specific about exactly what is too loud, wanting to do this back and forth at midnight. Uh turning the bass frequency of the music down but not the actual volume. Uh still determined to have a party with 100 guests and somehow make it not disruptive. Uh so those are the issues. Um thank you for your time and I hope um it's revoked. Thank you. Thank you Brad. Next. Lisa McKenzie. Lisa. Lisa McKenzie.

And earlier we heard from McKenzie, but that's your first name. Okay. Last name. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I thought it was. Um, thank you for your time. Uh, my name is Lisa McKenzie. I am a, uh, proud citizen of the city of Slow. I am part of the slow rotary club and I also head up the volunteer committees for fundraising for Lumina Alliance as well as transitions mental health. Uh I want to speak on behalf of the quality of these young men and the value of having this house. As you see here, these men are ranging in all ages. This is unlike any fraternity you've seen. This is a brotherhood of men who go on to be extremely successful. These are men in very high ranking positions in Silicon Valley, in NASA, you name it. The value of being in this fraternity, being able to gather and be together. I can't stress enough. My husband is a member of the fraternity. My son was a member of the fraternity. And I will say before this house was built, the fraternity almost fell apart. When my son was president, I think there were 15 gentlemen in the fraternity and they're now uh much larger than that. So there is a value in keeping that fraternity intact in having a house and that place together that simple place. I also want to say that anytime I have needed help in events for Teima, for Rotary, for Lumen Alliance in particular, these men are on the spot. They'll show up in droves to help the community to help us raise money and they do it on their own time and they're and you know using all their own time and energy. So, I just wanted to speak to the quality of these young men and make sure that they're not

just being reduced to a bunch of crazy loud partying people. These are young men who as part of this fraternity are going on to do something bigger and better and they're extremely involved. And as you said, the other fraternities in town, you don't see that. So, this is something really unique that I think should be taken into consideration. Thank you. Thank you, Miss McKenzie. And we have one more, I believe. Yes. Our final speaker is Doug McKenzie. I see another yellow. Okay. Doug McKenzie. All right. Well, my name is Doug McKenzie. Um, my wife stole a little bit of my thunder, which is okay. Um, I've been a member of this organization and a Calpala graduate for over 45 years. Um, I spent 33 years in the Marine Corps and I can say without a doubt, excuse me, without a doubt that, uh, the fraternity and the organization that's here tonight uh, has meant more to me and my life and probably more to most of my friends who are coincidentally past fraternity members as well. Um, so, uh, as my wife said, uh, I've been kind of the go-to guy to get her, uh, help or volunteers, if you will, to support some of these local charities like Lumen Alliance and Transition Mental Health. Um, and these guys always step up and they always step up with a smile on their face. They're happy to help. Um, they go the extra mile to get here on time and really put out the extra effort. Um, so I just want to stress how important this organization and it is not your typical fraternity. Um, we have a group of men that get together every year. Um, this past year um, over Memorial Day up at Bass Lake, we had almost 150 uh, people and I mean members of the fraternity only, not siblings, not wives or girlfriends or anybody else. So um, it

is a very tight group. we have a very strong influence over the active members and if it takes us getting more involved to have them act more appropriately in the neighborhood uh I know we are all willing to do that. Um, the last thing I'll say, you had addressed some of the satellite houses and I think the satellite houses might be a little bit of a misnomer only because these are guys who join the fraternity. There's not enough room in the fraternity. We have over 120 active members. We I think we can house 15 and which is what we do. So, they get together and they rent a house somewhere else. And I think to mitigate some of the parties and some of the noise and some of the problems associated with getting together on the foothill address, they they do have gettogethers at other things. That's not part of our um with our approval or our knowledge usually. I'm I live here. I I never hear about it. So, um it I'm not sure that that is an issue. It's probably an issue for you, but I I don't know if that's an issue. That's that's something within our control. uh unless we give them better directives on how to keep it tame. Um I'm happy to answer any questions, but but with that I I hope that you'll reconsider and and give them a positive approval for their use permit. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. McKenzie. And the format of this, the way it works, we don't ask questions of public commenters. We go through all the public comments, then we have discussions. So, um but thank you for that offer. Looks like Miss Walker is uh due to speak. Yes. And then after that it'll be Sebastian Garcia. And is that is that the end of the line? So far. So far. Okay. Hello again, Miss Walker. Hello. Nice to see you this evening. I hadn't actually planned on speaking, but I'm here just to clarify some I kind of thought I'd be here just in case something came up

because I'm pretty knowledgeable about the fraternity situation in San Louis Abyspo. Uh Delta UPS oopsilon does have multiple satellite houses. You can see them on um the list there. This they do actually are sanctioned events at the satellite houses. They're required by Kalpali's Greek life party registration policy to register every event that they have 5 to 10 days beforehand. Kalpali is sanctioning these or approving these events before they happen. This particular one you have in front of you was an unruly gathering at their illegal fraternity house at 281 Albert Drive. While they were on probation, they weren't supposed to be having any parties. Their probation was from February 15th, 2024 to through fall of 2024 for alcohol violations and other things like that. They went ahead and had the party anyway. It was cited as an unruly gathering. 300 people were there. It was issued to a member of Delta Oopsalon despite this registration in this unsanctioned party. They sailed through probation and it was lifted two months later. So you can see the addresses. Another frequent offender is 38 388 Chaplain Lane and 1868 Lumis. They have that's where they have the big parties. That's where they have 200 300 people. We can hear them from our house. This is a part I think you're aware that I've been trying to solve this since 2022. I I had a signific substantial report that I submitted to community development in 2023. The grand jury did an investigation on this whole issue. Um it's a problem. So the other thing is that the corporation was notified on January 29th about the notice about the citations and they went on to have more citations and nor more noise violations

and more noise calls. So I'm not sure how effective they are because there were problems even after they got the notice of violation from the city. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Walker. Okay. Next and perhaps final public comment. Sebastian Garcia, and this would be your last chance to fill out a slip if you haven't yet and you're on the fence. Hello and thank you to the commission for your time and the opportunity to speak. My name is Sebastian Garcia and I'm a proud alumnist of Kpali, class of 2018 and a member of Delta's law fraternity's 122nd pledge class. When I heard that the city had revoked use permits for other fraternities, I was concerned because I know firsthand how important Delta Salon is to the students and the broader community. While I can't speak for other organizations, I can tell you that we take this matter very seriously. Delta salon played a major role in my success not only in college but in life. It provided me with critical scholarships that helped me afford my education. It gave me access to affordable housing and it connected me with a network of mentors and professionals who helped shape my career. But more than that, Delta Yubslon is about character. Our entire mission is to build better men. We believe that helping young men grow into responsible, ethical, and community-minded adults is not just our purpose, but it's our duty. When I look at our alumni, I see business owners, community leaders, educators, fathers, and husbands. good men who give back. That transformation starts in the fraternity house where young students learn what it means to be accountable, respectful, and engaged citizens. Revoking or restricting our ability to operate as a fraternity wouldn't just limit housing options, but it would disrupt a support system that genuinely helps young men grow into better versions of themselves and ultimately

strengthens our community. Every Delta brother behind me today will tell you the same thing. This fraternity made them better men. So I ask the commission to support organizations like ours. Let's work together for the students, university, the community, and let's continue to fostering fostering the kind of leaders and citizens that we all want to see. I appreciate the commission's time, and uh I hope you take my comments into consideration. Thank you. Thank you. Our final two speakers are Sean Graham and then Bill. Hi, good evening. My name is Sean. Uh I have been at Kpali area, the St. Louis Bispo area since 1999. Uh I was in Delta all the way through my college career and I've been living in the area for the last 25 years since graduation. Uh I spent a lot of my time volunteering at the CowPoly fencing club. I teach fencing. Uh if I wasn't here, I'd be at Meadow Park teaching people how to hit people with sticks and swords. So uh I just want to say I am a part of your community. I was a part of Delta Salon. I believe in building up the community in various ways. My way is teaching people how to fence. Uh and I credit a lot of that to Delta salon and I think that is worth considering how uh all the people at Deltaon help build the community they are part of and that's something you I mean you guys see the noise complaints because you're you get that you it's hard it's a harder metric to see how they help the community. So that's what I'm here for and thank you. Thank you, Mr. Graham. And Bill is next. And it looks like perhaps one more now after that. After that is James Ends. Good evening. I'm Bill Coxshot. I'm a one of the earlier members of the fraternity dating back to the 1960s. I

live in a Royal Grandandy and every so often we would my wife late wife and I would stop by the the house to see how things are going. um ranging from uh re earlier this spring when we had more than year 21. We stopped because it was our anniversary celebration and we had adults stopping by for an afternoon open house and uh learning basically looking at this what these young men are doing. And another time and we happened to stop by and they were having a fundraising function on a Saturday afternoon. I think it was for rape counseling or something like that in which they were having a tie dying celebration which was a non-alcoholic event. They were serving soda pop and hot dogs and the car and the main attraction I think carloads of girls showing up to meet the guys or whatever. But it it was really neat seeing these young men having a great time and young couples and so forth just having fun. And in fact, I think a couple of cops happened to stop by and they couldn't get over how basically quiet and the fact that there was no um abuse or anything like that. And I think that that's something that we strive to teach as alumni members to these young people who are learning how to basically they're learning the their wings as young people. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Cockshot and perhaps this is the last speaker. Good evening, council members. I'm uh James Ens. I'm a local resident here. Um actually met my wife at Delta Salon and

we both live here in St. Louis Bispo. Have four daughters here in varying uh stages and at varying schools, you know, within the within the town. Um, so I certainly understand the concern for quality neighborhoods. Um, I came to St. Louis. I loved it. I loved my time at Kalpali and decided to make this home, you know, my my long-term home. Um, so I certainly uh see the importance of uh respectful neighborhoods for everyone to to to live in. um as these neighborhoods have grown and obviously Foothill Boulevard itself has changed dramatically um since the time that I was living at the fraternity house um in the early 2000s um multiple multiplestory buildings you know with many more residents. So obviously the interactions have changed certainly um when we were first there obviously it was mostly just uh just small small small homes and you know other businesses in the surrounding area. Um but just want to speak to um you know the lifelong friendships built there. Obviously, when we talk about people living together, um I lived with multiple fraternity brothers at the time that I was in Kalpali and that wasn't necessarily because we were looking to establish something. It was simply because we wanted to live with people that we enjoyed being with, our friends. Um I was first introduced to most of them in the week of welcome at Kalpali and uh stayed connected to them for life since then. So, um, just hope for your, uh, your consideration about the positive impact of our fraternity. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ans.

Does that wrap it up? That was the last one. Okay. So, with the conclusion of that, we will close the public comment period. And uh we'll also acknowledge the public comments that were sent in by in writing from Brett Cross, Heather Doss, um Miss uh uh Vu Vujo. I always get trip over that name. Um Mr. Reeves, and um we also I want to acknowledge also the grand jury report which was released this week, which is not it's related to this topic, but it's not specifically about this issue. And so we have a pretty detailed response from the city on that report. So and uh I noticed that that arrived in our inboxes at 2:59 this afternoon. So we've done our best to get through that and take a look at it at least. So So with that public comment is closed and now we enter the phase of discussion. So I will um open the floor to comments and uh general discussion question and Mr. Khan uh we'll start with you. Thank you. Um, I appreciate all the testimony written and uh and spoken. I truly believe that uh this fraternity and most of the fraternities of Calpali, they do the fundraising. They help the community. Uh they help their their members grow up successful. It's a brotherhood. It's a frat fraternity making a better man. And I believe all that. I really do. And I believe you guys are all very very very sincere sincere. The other issue is they have conceptual use permit and they're making noise and they're disrupting the community and I think they're completely separate issues. So if uh someone has a conceptual use permit and they have requirements you're required to to uh comply with it and if you don't then there's the process that goes through and that's why we're here today. So I don't see the two issues correlated. I think the fraternity should stay. I

think they're great. I think my wife is a sorority lady and she's very active in her sorority as as an alumni um at Kapali. So, I'm just kind of bringing up that there has to be a way that the fraternities in this community can comply with their use permit. And I said this at the last hearings and I'll say this at this hearing. I don't know how you have fraternities in residential neighborhoods and how they uh can coexist because they're completely two different type of uses. Many colleges in the United States of America have fraternity row. Berkeley does. There's fraternities in the south that have or excuse me, universities in the south that have fraternity rows or something that can help these uses coexist in the community. And I don't have a solution sitting here today. I'm just telling you that I've heard all the speaking about what the fraternities do and I totally totally believe that and I hope it continues to happen. Um, but that still doesn't address the violations of the conceptual okay, excuse me, the conditional use permit. That's all I have to say. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Khan. And uh, I want to correct myself. I tripped over uh, one of the written commenters names and I should have remembered this. It's Mila Vu Vuvich Labar. I should remember her. She taught Spanish to my daughter. So, didn't want to trip over that too badly. Okay. Comments from any for more from this side. Looks quiet. Okay. Commissioner Kulie, I have a question for staff. Um, just want to clear something up. I think we heard from one of our public commenters. It may have been Mr. Garcia, you seem to say something to the effect of if we were to vote to revoke that it would reduce housing options. Um, and I wanted to just ask staff, if we were to revoke this, would it result in the residents of this location being evicted or otherwise not being able to live there? The conditional use permit does not

restrict or take away from it being a residential use first and foremost. Um, however, this site specifically is owned by this fraternity. So, I don't know how they would foresee the implications um given that this site is owned by them and the other fraternities we've discussed were not. They lease properties. Thank you. Okay. Uh follow-up question. Yeah. Quick followup. Um, in the event that we should uh recommend a revocation of the cup, is there a path for reestablishing one in the future for this fraternity given that they own the building? Uh, yes. I think Satie, last time you said there's a difference between revocation with and without prejudice, and that would allow for reapplication of a use permit. I don't know which one is would let them reapply, but there's a path for allowing them to reapply for a new conditional use permit in the future. Yeah, I would just say so absent some sort of extreme circumstances, um I would not recommend a revocation uh with prejudice. It would generally be without prejudice, meaning that the applicant could reapply for a conditional use permit. The fact that the underlying property is owned by the fraternity is sort of not really a factor in that. It's sort of the fraternity as landowner, fraternity as organization applicant are sort of distinct for purpose for those purposes. Great. Thank you for that clarification. And then kind of lastly follow up on that. I imagine is there any cool off period from revocation to a new Okay. Thank you. I'm I'm seeing Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that's a good question. Both those are good because um we clarified we've been through this a month ago or whenever that was and it does not mean that um it can't be used as a as a residence and that and and in the previous cases where we did revoke two conditional use permits. We did it without prejudice and that keeps the

door open for reapplication I think nearly immediately and so but it's they have to go through that process. Is that do I understand that right? You do understand that right. Um there is a fee to reapply that is potentially prohibitive, cost prohibitive, but um you can apply. How much is that fee? We It's over $10,000 at this point in time. Yeah. And fees go up in five days. And that would be the same fee that any group would any conditional use permit application would pay that fee. Okay. Okay. Other questions from the commission? Comments? I have my list here. So, if I don't hear from you guys, I'll start talking, which you know I will do. Well, let me then uh briefly get in ahead of that. So, let me uh echo much of what Commissioner Khan said. I have no reason to doubt your sincerity. I have no reason to doubt the good works, the contributions you make to the community, uh Luminina Alliance, Teima, all those things. I believe those to be true. I just do think it is also a separate issue that we're narrowly looking at a conditional use permit. And as I stated in my question, we're required to make a certain list of findings or to make those findings and find them to be true. And I'm not able to distinguish this factually from the uh decisions we made in recent hearings. And so I will not be supportive of modifying the conditional use permit. and would at some point uh be willing to join or make a motion to adopt staff's recommendation to revoke. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Culie. Should we just all comments? I'm going to talk for a bit unless I don't want to. Oh, wait. No, you Okay. Okay. And then that will not be the end. And then we'll potentially

have more discussions. So coming into this, we just went through this right a month ago. And I think that we surprised a lot of folks and perhaps even ourselves with the action that we took. And it's been sort of a mounting pressure to do something to send some kind of a message and to take some kind of action because this is has been an ongoing issue as long as I've been here two and a half years and I waved some papers around from a year ago that you know we've been dealing with this and we've been trying to assign these conditions and to work with the fraternities and to work have them be in the system rather than push them out and that sort of thing. And so, and I try to approach each of these meetings and each of these topics with a completely open mind. We did just go through this. There's a lot of similarities. And so, that does that's a factor. It just is. I went over to the site today and took a look. It's very quiet there, of course, now because school's out. And uh so, first I'll list a few factors that I have that kind of led me to think maybe this situation's a little bit different. One, the location on Foothill is a pretty noisy uh location. It's arterial. It's completely surrounded by R4. It's completely surrounded by apartments. And so the uses there's the nearest single family R1 that I can see is across over on Finini and it's several hundred feet away. So that seemed a little bit different. and the nature of the building itself and the fact that the fraternity had designed and built it specifically for this I thought potentially was weighing in its favor. It's got a courtyard sort of in the middle in the parking area there and so that has seems like it has the potential to kind of contain whatever noise might happen there. And I happened to talk to a neighbor, and I'm not going to mention his name, but I actually got a positive

review uh from that neighbor who said that, "Yeah, they have parties. Yeah, they have noise and it's a college town." And we're not, you know, I'm not too surprised by that. And so um so there was all that and then we had several comments from uh the public and that were in that were pushing towards revocation and we're also expressing a lot of frustration with this ongoing and some of those are some of the same commenters that we've had on the other fraternities and but none of them were very near this particular house. So, I thought about that for a little bit and then uh I was reminded again by Miss Walker about the satellite problem and I have a really hard time believing that these that your fraternity doesn't know what's going on in these other houses and that there's parties that you know that that uh Mr. Fernandez I think you said they you don't they don't even know about. That really strains my credul. So that's part of the problem and part of what we're doing here is trying to send some message to everyone that this needs to a bigger approach to be fixed. And so and and like Commissioner Kulie, I don't see a lot of um I have a hard time finding making the same findings that you were refer referring to that about peace and enjoyment and so on. I do have a couple of questions for staff. Um there were 11 complaints and five citations over the last academic year. one of those citations was appealed. So, the difference between complaints and citations. Um, can you speak to that, Miss Patino, and just say something about that? Yeah, I'm actually going to ask if Brian um would like to come up. He's our representative from police department. Uh, they're the responders on those and they differentiate which results in a And also, just to clarify, there's two forms of enforcement that happen here. We've got code enforcement from the city

and we've got slow PD that rolls when there's a police complaint, right? Yes. And we can follow up with John enforcement. Thank you. Sure. Thank you for having me. Brian Amroso, deputy chief for San Loso Police Department. Uh thank you planning commission for being here. Um yeah, to answer your question, uh when the police receive, um noise complaints, uh we generally respond, we actually have uh student employees called SNAP, student neighborhood assistance program, uh that generally responds first, but they do not go to fraternities or known locations that have had prior citations. Um so in this situation, uh typically, uh if we would get a a noise complaint there, officers would be dispatched. Um they would go out. So that is a a complaint, right? Anything that comes into the police department generates a call for service, officers will go out and investigate. Just because somebody calls in, um I could tell you that the majority of our noise uh noise calls don't end up in a citation. The officer needs to observe the violation. Um it's a low-level infraction. Just like you can't tell a police officer, I saw my neighbor speeding at 80 miles an hour yesterday. Can you go give him a ticket? We need to on view that violation. Uh so officers will go out, they will uh they're very knowledgeable with the municipal code and what the rules are. Uh if they observe a violation, then they will write a citation. They could issue uh what's called a DAC, a disturbance advisement card. It's a written warning, but those are not issued to fraternities. That would be for um other homes that haven't had a citation in the past. Um and if there's not a violation, they may still knock on the door, let the residents know, hey, you did get a noise complaint. you know, we're not hearing or seeing the violation, but just so you're aware, you know, if you were making noise, you might want to keep it down or whatever. So, does every call regard result in a recorded complaint and some complaints result in a

citation? Is that the way to look at this? Yes. Or not necessarily? Well, I will say not necessarily. And that's only because um we do have some situations where you might have a very large party in a neighborhood. We might get 17 calls from residents. We don't build 17 calls for what appears to dispatchers to be everyone is calling on the same party. So they'll build one call and the rest of the callers, they'll just be told, "We've already got a complaint. We've got people responding. We'll take care of it." So not every call, but every unique location call should be built. Um, and then officers will go or SNAP would go to investigate. Okay. And I imagine there's a weekend in March that you get a a lot of calls. So, okay. What about unruly gatherings? The February 27th uh cited a large gathering over 21. Anyway, is that automatically an unruly gathering or does that have a another criteria? Unruly gathering has another criteria. Unruly gathering is really the highest criteria and it's meant for those large parties that have um large number of people but also cause what's considered significant disturbance to the neighborhood. And there's a laundry list of items and it might be um you know trash strewn about the street, people parked on the sidewalks, fights breaking out, urination in bushes, all standing on roofs, right? If you think of like a a Hollywood movie and you would see this unreal party atmosphere um you know that could be used for an unruly gathering. So it's not based solely on population. It's of the party. It's everything else going on. Okay. And so this February 27th uh citation didn't I don't think it said unruly gathering. Is that right? Okay. Thank you. Noise violations. Just noise. Okay. And then uh it was also brought to our attention in one of the public comments that there was a citation for noise or at least a complaint on June 21st, 4 days ago. Um can you confirm that?

I don't have my uh unfortunately my system in front of me. So I wasn't prepared off top of my head to have all the calls. Um, okay. So, I I would presume that that information is accurate, but I I don't have it in front of me. Okay. I I know that pretty much folks cleared out after the last finals and graduation and so on. So, um, and then lastly, there the citation that was appealed, it was because the body camera or the noise measurement did not bear out the noise uh, problem. And so, I'm trying to picture what happens there. An officer shows up And they how do they take the noise? Is it is it the body camera that actually measures the noise or is there a sound meter or something? And how does that work? No, neither of those things are correct. So, uh the municipal code just um specifies a certain amount of feet from the source of the noise or the property line based on the time of night. Body cameras are officers wear just to record everything that's occurring. Um, so what you have to understand, so we don't use decibel meters because the municipal code does not reference decibb for this part of the noise ordinance. There are some with related to construction and other heavy machinery noise. Um, but there is no decibel limit to our municipal code. That would actually make it super easy if there was. Um, but the body cameras record um everything that's occurring. But the technology of the body camera is designed to optimize person-toperson conversation. and it's not designed to hear noise at a distance. Okay, fair enough. There's been a couple of these that we've seen that were citations that were appealed successfully and I think it said something like body camera or it said that there was there was a technicality there that resulted in the appeal being successful. And I'm just wondering how much weight we actually give to that or if there's a technological problem there where well I

mean obviously if a citation was issued then the officer on site thought it was a real thing and but the proof in the appeal was not did not hold up. Do you have anything to say about that? Correct. So the um the hearing officer for the appeal was looking at the body camera as a way to say, "Well, I can't hear the noise, so it must not have been a violation." And so we were able to provide working through Motorola, the manufacturer of our body cameras, some technical data to this hearing officer to help educate them to understand this is not just like setting a microphone what your ear would pick up. The camera, the body camera is actually reducing exterior noise so that it can bet it does the same thing with wind. It does the same thing. If you ever see a um a police incident and you'll hear gunshots and it just sounds like this weird muffled noise, it doesn't sound like a normal gunshot. It's because they're trying to minimize those certain frequencies so it can better pick up what people are saying back and forth. It's the same thing our earpods do with noise cancellation, right? Correct. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, um, thank you for that. And it's just I when I picture an officer arriving on scene, I imagine things would get a little quieter right away perhaps. Um, so they can, but we do train our officers, you know, you don't drive up and park right in front of the house. You park a couple of houses down. You get out, you listen, see what you can hear, right? And then they So, you know, we try to be fair when we enforce any noise violation. you know, we understand, you know, people are living in high density and noise is going to happen. Um, and it's not always a violation, right? Is it sustained? Is it what is the time of day? What is the reasonleness of it? And that's how we train our officers to be reasonable, but to go assess and if it's a violation, then follow our policies and procedures accordingly. And I can confirm that that you guys are reasonable, at least with the one ride along I've done with slow

PD. Uh, excess, extremely uh, courteous and patient. um in in all respects and I I was very impressed with that. I So, okay. Thank you very much for all that clarification. Appreciate it. Sure. Thank you. So, we've heard a lot today about the good of the fraternities. Nobody is debating or denying that. And I we hear you loud and clear. These fraternities are important. And we've heard the phrase better men a lot. And we all believe in that, I believe, too. And so I'm a I'm there's a few things that trouble me. Uh we've got um uh Mr. Fernandez and um Mr. um uh Mr. Reefs that you're you're telling us that you're doing your best to instill in these young men the respect and the community values that that they need to be part of this community. and that, you know, all the good stuff and the ducky races and the contributions and everything like that, that's all great, but this is about noise and about disrupting the piece. And so, um, I don't that those don't line up. What what you're saying you're doing and trying to instill in these young men and what's actually happening as described by the neighbors, it doesn't square up. It's really difficult. And I when I went out there today, I felt like, wow, this is a place that really should work as a frat house. Um it's it's surrounded by other apartments. It's kind of self-encclosed. It's on this busy street. And yet we um um the the comments from the apartment manager from M from McKenzie and uh um and I'm not going to go through them all here, but um that aligns with many of the other comments that we've heard and and u

those are persuasive to me. So, the result of revocation does not mean that uh you can't use the house anymore. And it does mean that you have to start over uh and apply as a fraternity. And that's where I'm headed with this, too. I didn't start out thinking, oh, this is just like the other ones. And so, we're just going to do that again. I've tried to really put my thought into it and and take a look at this situation independently. But that's that's where I am as well. So, I'll uh entertain discussion or barring uh if you're tired of talking about then I'll entertain a motion from the commission. Well, I'm not seeing anyone else jumping up to comment, so I'm going to go ahead and move to uh adopt one of SAS's recommendations to uh revoke the CUP without prejudice. We have a motion and we have a second. Do we have discussion on the motion that has been seconded? Any final comments? Said clerk would call the role. Commissioner Culie, yes. Commissioner Jorgensson, yes. Commissioner Khan, yes. Commissioner Munos Morris, yes. Vice Chair Tally, yes. Chair Hton, yes. Um, Commissioner, I would just like to clarify that unlike the last two we did, um, where the decision is not final until the until the resolution is adopted, um, because the the commission has voted to, um, adopt the resolution for revocation. Today's date will be the date of the planning commission's decision. Thank you. And I appreciate that that we um the word either was included in your presentation and that we actually had uh both written out and uh clearly stated. So So that's as of

today as as of right now really. So okay, that concludes item 4 A which I think is what many or most or all of you are here for. So item 4B is actually about um um continuing a mo a uh it's continuing the re review of the plan development amendment to revoke the plan overlay PD overlay related to development project at 1144 Toro Street for seven properties. And so that item has been continued to the July 9th meeting uh 2025. And would associate planner Hannah or another staff member which looks like it's going to be Miss Patino uh like to make any comments regarding the continuation of the item. Am I doing this right? Sure. I mean the continuation just had to do with a new state law requiring a 20-day notice for legislative changes. Okay. All right. So it's just a timing thing and a clock thing. Okay. Um, doesn't look like it. Uh, I will read this thing. As this item was noticed in the paper and postcards were sent to surrounding property owners, the commission will still accept public comment. So, is there any public comment on item 4B for this PD amendment? Seeing none, uh, city clerk, do we have any public comment? No. No, we do not. Okay. I should have looked over to you instead of just out there. Okay. So, and we're near the end here. So, Deputy Community Development Director Tyler Corey, would you please provide us an update on the forecast of what are we looking at down the line? All right. Thanks, Chair Kulie. I think as you mentioned, the um plan development for 11:44 Toro will be on the July 9th uh regularly scheduled meeting. So, that's the only item I currently have for the 9th. And then I don't currently have any items for the July 23rd uh meeting at this time. So

that could be cancelled and then looking out towards the end of August is likely when we will be bringing something back to the planning commission regarding the Jan uh grand jury report on uh the fraternity question. Okay. And might that be an opportunity to talk about forums or for uh how you're supposed to say it to get our hands around this big picture. Um, I mean, we've been kind of wanting to do it. Well, I know council is has a has it on their agenda for early of 26, right? Correct. I mean, this is just a procedural requirement of the report that they're asking the planning commission to respond to a particular item and they've also asked the city manager to respond to that item. And so, we'll basically be presenting that to the planning commission as our response um on that issue. Okay. We've seen uh Timmy Twy's response, but there will be a a city manager response as well. Yes. Okay. And it's in our purview to review any kind of grand jury report that comes out or is it specifically because of this topic? It's specifically because of of this topic. They were asking the planning commission to to look at it. Okay, fair enough. Commissioner And I'm assuming just procedurally how that works is staff will come back with a recommended response and we'll have the opportunity to discuss it and tweak it if we want. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. I have a question for Tyler. Uh the first thing the first time I've heard about the grand jury thing was at 3:00 this afternoon. Can you give some cont like what is it? What are we looking at? Can you give some context to what we're what the grand jury report is? It's a report that looked at over the past several months looked at the issue of kind of the town gown issues with fraternities and and neighborhood wellness issues in the community. and they interviewed staff from various departments to provide input on some of

these topics that they wanted more information about. And so they issued kind of this draft report to the city. We provided what you have in your in your package is uh or in the agenda correspondence is our detailed response because we don't agree with all of their findings and recommendations. and um they did not is my understanding is they did not change the report based on our responses in and in inaccuracies that we found in there. So the report was released basic in my understanding is it basically was what we saw without any modifications on the information we provided. So, we will be um doing some additional work to provide uh a more robust response to the specific items that that were required to and one of them will be coming back to the planning commission. So, that report was issued on the 20th, is that right? Or earlier this week, like two days ago, I think it was it was just came out this week. And you guys put together that response between then and now. That was last week that So, we had a draft that came in. We had about a week to turn around a full fully vetted review and that was the product of staff's time last week. It's quite detailed and impressive. Thank you for for all whatever candles you had to burn to make that happen. Okay. Anything else before we adjourn? The next regular meeting of the planning commission is scheduled for July 9th to 2025, 6:00 p.m. right here in the council chambers at city hall, 990 Palm Street, St. Louis Abyispo. We are adjourned.