City Council - workshop

Mayor Morrow. From city staff, we have Acting City Manager Adkin and City Clerk Royal. At this time, the Chair would be delighted to entertain a motion to approve the agenda as submitted unless there are amendments. Move by Dillon to approve as submitted. Is there a second?

Second.

Seconded by Del Orko. All those in favor of approving the agenda as submitted, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Aye. The motion carries unanimously. We come to agenda item three, public comments. Under the Open Meetings Act, any person may come forward and make a comment or ask a question. Comments will be limited to three minutes per person. Those wishing to speak are requested but not required to state their name and address for the record. Please note that City Council will not be answering questions during this initial public comment period. Are there any public comments regarding the proposed downtown gathering space? BASE TOWN SQUARE. PLEASE, JILL, MAKE SURE THE GREEN LIGHT IS ILLUMINATED AT THE BASE OF THAT MICROPHONE AND YOU MAY BEGIN WHEN READY.

THE GREEN LIGHT IS ON. ALL RIGHT. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR MORRALL AND COUNCIL. I AM JILL DERMAN AND AS A Business of downtown business owner, Celine, resident and organizer of salty summer sounds. I'm here in support of the practice properties downtown gathering space. I also want to share the support of Wally and Cindy McNeil of Max Acadian seafood check. They are strongly behind this project as well, but unable to attend tonight's meeting. They did ask me to specifically share that. They do feel downtown. Celine really needs a shot in the arm and they believe this gathering space could be transformational for downtown. Bill Stilberg from Bill's Barbershop also commented that many of his clients would be very happy if such a space was in downtown. As long as I've been a business owner, which has surpassed 30 years, I've heard people talk about the desire for a true community gathering space. Residents have wanted it, businesses have talked about it, and visitors would benefit from it. As someone who helps organize Salty Summer Sounds, a free concert series, I see firsthand how valuable this could be. One of our biggest challenges is finding a place for concerts that is safe, comfortable, and inviting while keeping downtown accessible. We don't want to close a parking lot to have these concerts. Parking is important to our businesses and our visitors. Such a gathering space would give us a dedicated place for concerts and other events without sacrificing parking. It can make our events easier to set up while creating a much better experience for the people who attend them. It could give residents a place to come together and visitors another reason to spend more time downtown. As a business owner, I believe this kind of activity strengthens the entire downtown. When people have a reason to come, stay, and enjoy themselves, our businesses benefit and our community becomes more vibrant. I encourage City Council to do whatever it can to support this project. I believe it would be a tremendous investment in the future of downtown Saline and our entire community. Thank you.

Thank you, Jill. Appreciate your comments. Are there any additional citizen comments this evening? Please, you'll have three minutes once you begin.

Hi, Brian Gearball, 324 North Lewis. I'm A naysayer to this, I said, I have interest because my family owned property that is going to be part of this. That property was for simply taken before 25 years ago. To make the Murphy's crossing. Development work, it was the exactly East of it. I said, and I go, it corrected the problems for. The trash disposal and for electricity and for the access and the access was all supposed to be from the back. Right now, I said that property was taken for parking purposes. It was never used for public parking. We were told and shown a drawing that had handicapped parking spaces and told that those handicapped parking spaces had to be on that property because they had to be close to the elevator tower said that was never realized 6 weeks later. Oh, what shows up? But a plaza to a non existing building. The property that is in question. I said, as I said, a river class to it. I said, if this is development is to go forward. Construction equipment would have to go across it that would invoke the reverter clause as that input into this project for the city. I also want to remind that as the. Developer of this promised. 25 years ago that he was going to build a. Building provide extra commercial space downtown office space, downtown tax base that never happened. The project was done in phases. My guess with this project, I said it will be done in phases again. The ones that benefit the Murphy's crossing development will be done. Those that I said that may be on to the city property. Currently, I said that won't be done or unless not unless other extra monies are put forward. I said. I think it's a good project, but if it stays on his property, that's fine. He can develop his property however he wants. But I said, just like before, he does not have the property he needs for the development of his vision that he wants to do. He needs to include the additional property to the east. And is that that property I said should revert back if it's used for a green space rather than being used for the public parking for which it was really took it taken. And I said the city needs to, I said, live up to the promises it made 30 years ago. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Appreciate that any additional citizen comments from those in the audience this evening. Doesn't appear to be. Clerk Royal, did we receive any written comments in advance of tonight's meeting in which the individual wanted their remarks read at this time? No. Easy enough. Then we will transition to our one and only discussion item, which is the proposed downtown gathering space, green space. Before we begin, Mr. Acting City Manager Adkins, is there anything you'd like to add for the record? No, at this time. Okay. Mr. Kenley, can I invite you forward? Yeah. You have a PowerPoint in front of us. Yes, make sure the green light is illuminated at the base. And for the public's benefit, this PowerPoint is provided via our online platform. You're welcome to review it at your leisure. There are some modifications and changes that have been implemented and are being proposed tonight from when this issue was last discussed, probably about 60, 90 days ago, if I recall. under the direction of both yourself, Mr. Kinley, and then City Manager, Mr. Swallow. For the public's edification and for Council, we're not going to be developing consensus this evening. We'll probably revisit this issue in the next 30 to 60 days, providing you ample opportunity to ask follow-up questions and raise concerns, either of the petitioner or staff in the ensuing weeks. Mr. Kinley, did I miss anything there? If not, I think you are good to go. So proceed when ready, and you know how to work that computer there, I'm assuming?

arrows very good thank you all for for having me here back I'm excited to be here and I come today with a PowerPoint that I tried to keep as concise as possible while still going through all the details of which there are many it's a complex project but it has the power to be transformational as with It can continue on, but there will be some changes proposed tonight. That said, I just want to get right into it. What we're going to talk about tonight, a little bit of a historical retrospective as we've gone through this. We found a number of old photographs just to show what Murphy's Crossing was before its redevelopment. 30 years ago, a bit of the project background what got us here, uh, the design and site plan update that I'll be going through today. Uh, the abatement that is requested. Uh, the lease that would supplant the, excuse me, the development agreement that we talked about, uh, a rough estimate of a timeline should things go relatively as we could optimistic. So, with that being said, I'll just get right into it some of the history. When Murphy's crossing was purchased 30 plus years ago, you can see the photograph on the left. It had a lot of work to be done. The back of the buildings brick work when the. Supporting building in front of it was removed could almost just be shoved over. There were 2 tenants that were commercial in the building 1 residential. Residential tenant was living in, I mean, water was coming through her ceiling. It was just a complete mess and the building needed some work so that you can see. I mean, it's, it's quite a difference. That's down you can see here. This is what used to be the alley in between the 2 buildings. Uh, the middle photo is as the work was being done and the photo on the right is finished. Um. It's almost unrecognizably different when you're in the space. Uh, looking ahead, this is the back of the Wallace block, which is what we'll be working on. Uh, if you look through on the right on the alley, you can see brick and grill. Uh, it's just a completely different building, especially from from the rear. And I can provide these photos if you want. There are many more, but these sort of give an overview of just. What kind of a difference occurred? This is the back of the walls block again. Um, I think of note. Is you can see the, the, the street level, uh, met at. The same level as the. Street at the front of the building, and as part of the work that was done, it was actually dug down to expose the lower level. The lower level was actually. Lowered, so the ground was dug out and we gained about 2 and a half feet, which really transformed the lower level into something that that now. Can be utilized for retail or or any number of purposes right now cobblestone roads is in that. The left most part, if you're ever at the back of the building, you'll recognize a lot of those openings. That were that were windows and are boarded up. Those will become openings again, whether they're windows doors or otherwise. The small single story structure was removed. The 2 story structure on the right was removed. It's just a complete transformation and. What we're hoping for here is to show. What can happen with investment like this and how much change can occur just by looking back at what what was done to market's crossing previously. This takes us through a little bit of of the work that we've done so far. So this, this really started in October of 2023, engaging the and just saying, hey, we'd like to. To look into what we can do with the unfinished parcel. And at the time we were talking about building a building, but through the years, as we found, then we found the same answer in 2018, the economics are incredibly challenging. Building costs are sky high and continue to go up. And the rent in downtown Celine simply doesn't make the numbers work. You cannot build a building. And have the rent cover the costs and the mortgage costs and the expenses to run the building without help. And that's what the state grants are for. So, in October, 2023, when I was working with the. We were looking at all sorts of ideas to build a building, whether it was residential or otherwise at the time we couldn't figure out. Any use of of a rental purpose besides residential. And considering that we knew that the impact the parking lot would be. Dramatic if we put 2024 apartments in that building. All of a sudden, not only is probably the community going to be. parking underneath, but access to that parking and cost for that parking and simply the number of parking spots that we could put in, it just didn't work. At the same time, in January of 2024, Ben Harrington was here and had proposed, I think it was on the 22nd, he had gotten money from the state to start looking into a social gathering space downtown. Of course, the city does not control our parcel, but it controls parking lots. So he was looking to Find a parking lot that you could envision and realize the notion of a social gathering space. The gathering space has been discussed since the mid eighties. It has been a dream of downtown for a long time. So, as he was working on that, I really developed a good relationship and friendship with Ben. he was talking about his work. And I started to think, well, if we're unable to realize a building here, I could look ahead and say, and just sort of see with, The interest in in parking in downtown that. Where he was looking to replace parking with a green space was going to find a lot of opposition. So, in parallel with him working on that, I started to talk to the about what, what could we do to offer something on our parcel if we can't build a building. Could we create that space? So, in May of 2024, I engaged Holden branch. Who's been my contact since then about are there grants for for placemaking? So, yeah, the revitalization placemaking grant that could really work. Um. Come August 2024, we had been working on that and that's when Ben actually left. And I think his departure coupled with community feedback, coupled with a bit of a lack of momentum. The, the notion of building the social gathering space on the lot that had been intended just across the street from Murphy's crossings Wallace block. It had sort of fizzled, but at that point, I sort of saw an opportunity. What if what if we did that here if it can't happen there? Why not here? At the same time. Uh, as we were working on that to create a larger space. That better mirrored what was intended for across the street. Came the idea well, the city has a parcel just adjacent. A lot of it is already pedestrian. It has a pull through. What if that were coupled with this. And created a space that was equally as large. So, in December of 2024, we presented that concept. Uh, it was met with some skepticism, some excitement. Um, but a lot of desire to explore. Should we even consider this? So a task force was created come January. The task force did a lot of work over the holiday season, which we really appreciated. Um, and city council unanimous unanimously supported. Providing an investment into that concept. After a lot of pushing to try to get on the agenda at the in April, we finally got on the agenda and they said, reduce your ask to 1.5Million and you'll be very competitive. So, we went back to the drawing board a bit and made some scope modifications, tried to find costs. We ourselves put in an extra 300,000 to cover some of the gap and resubmitted in September. Our new proposal that only requested 1.5Million from the state. And come March of 2026, we were awarded that grant. So we were very excited. Uh, however, in June, uh, there was litigation filed. And that creates a, a major roadblock. Um, the parcel in question is, is the, the gearball property. Um. With that parcel under litigation, uh, our ability to really do anything on on that, that parcel is is. we couldn't get any bank to agree for any construction loans on something where you just don't know what's going on, what's going to happen. And so in this proposal today, we'll be going over a little bit of how we're responding. So some of the background, community support from the master plan was very clear that the community was really behind a social gathering space recently. momentum has continued with this proposal on this idea you'll see on the right the constraints the previous plan the cost was I think 1.2 million at the time there were parking losses I think neighbors were a little bit skeptical of how the events would affect their business and so coming here This project, I mean, our goal today is to reduce the scope, decouple our project from the litigated parcel, continue progress on providing the community asset housing, the cocktail bar. Try to create that social gathering space that we've been after for so long a venue for events that currently occur and ones that could occur now in the future. Um. It is a reduction in the civic. Financial contribution, so today we're not only taking the 500,000 and reducing our, our ask to half that, but also compared to any other project. Practice would be on the hook for capital maintenance, which, if the project across the street had been created all costs, including capital maintenance would be on the city. So it is a sustainable investment from the city perspective. And finally. I think a lot of people are just excited and we want to keep keep building on that and not let this stagnate. So, a number of people have commented that over the course of this couple of years, this project, there have been a number of concepts and that's that's exactly the case. I think when I 1st presented the concept on the left, the only thing I guaranteed was, it wasn't going to look like that. And that is exactly true. We have gone through multiple iterations, but where we arrived today. Uh, takes this site plan, which you'll recognize is the previous site plan and I've highlighted here. You can see the parcel that's that's under litigation. Uh, we are. Entirely removing that parcel from this proposal. So, decoupling our project from that just to allow us to continue forward. So, the previous plan is on the left, the revised plans on the right with the highlighted portion there. Our proposal essentially just does not touch that parcel in any way. The revisions, as you'll see from what left to right, we've excluded any work from that parcel. So the, the red and the left parcel was a replacement of either concrete and asphalt and brick pavers. None of that will occur. No planters. No. Uh, 0, curb, um, no changes to the, uh, the staircase on the right. Um, so that will remain however, you know, should there be an event? It, it, it still serves the purpose of pedestrian activity. Um. Much of what we're proposing on our site essentially remains the same. 1, big differences. If you'll see, there is a ramp on our site. That goes. From the building on the right, and that is hard without a pointer here, but there's a ramp at the end of the upper portion of the green space that has been removed. That would potentially be replaced by a ramp in the future. That could be in the next phase. Should that be. Decided upon, but there is still full handicap access from anniversary road into the project as it currently exists. This is the plan in a larger scope. The grade on the green space is about 3% so it's incredibly gentle I was very nervous of that until I found an area that wasn't a 3% grade and it really is quite gentle even seating on that On that slope is not an issue We have full 88 compliant ramp going from the parking lot down to the lower level we have made some stair modifications that are on our property and That you can see the staircase to send down into the green space that descent coupled with a couple of stairs from the red brick area down allows us to maintain the grade. The it's hard to explain exactly, but the elevation. We had to retake that into account from a. Landscaping perspective, because we didn't lose some of the grade reduction from the curb. So we were going to take the curve out and make it flat, but because the curve exists, it still bumps us up a few inches. So we're making up for that a little bit with a couple of stairs at the very top of the green space here. So you take a couple steps down the ramp on the left remains. The festoon lighting remains the stage area remains. Much of it is the same 1, major change is the access to drainage. So, as I've discussed before. The, the water just runs downhill. I mean, that's no surprise. Um. I've been looking for a means to to get the water out and previously I proposed using a gravity fed storm drain in the middle of the lower portion of the green space. That would be fed out to a connecting storm sewer in the parking lot. But because we will no longer be touching the parcel that is under litigation, we don't want to dig that up and trench across it, which we would have had to do. So, instead there is a storm drain located in the salt alley, just to the south of the walls block. And our plan is to connect to that via a drain that then pumps up and into it because the elevation is slightly different. It can't just be gravity. So, I guess that takes us through the major changes for the site plan. It is a scope reduction. It is a change in drainage, but. To most people would look the same. The litigated parcels untouched. For the most part, we've tried to retain as much as possible from the previous because. We'd love to go forward with it, but given the circumstances, I think. It affords us certain opportunities for 1. Because we're reducing the scope, we're also reducing the construction impact. So this will actually have a notable reduction in construction impact to the downtown in general. We won't dig up that parcel. It'll be much more limited. So pedestrian activity will be much less affected. Deliveries and drop offs will be less affected. Realistically. There are some, some benefits here. It also leaves open what could happen to that person in the future. Should there be arbitration? Should there be some sort of of change that everyone's happy with? That could look different in the future. We'd love for there to be a happy ending for everybody. I'll move forward to the request for the tax abatement as you're all aware. We had initially wanted to go that route from the get go. The supported it by looking at our numbers and said, yeah, you should go for that. We had planned to, but the opportunities. At the state level had sunset at the end of last year, and so we had expected them to come to the. the fore of their attention and get sort of reinstated earlier, but it took a while. And in that interim, we tried to figure out a way to make it work. We said, let's figure out a rental strategy that essentially mirrored the same process. Well, in that time span between our last chat and now, they did pass it. So that is now an option and so we're just going back to that and saying, let's just go back to that. It's simpler. There is precedent for it and the. Rental concept while it was a creative solution, I think was confusing and we've reduced any, any rental contribution from the city down to a dollar. It's nominal and the tax abatement really was the route we would have preferred from the get go. So, now that it's back into the. An option we want to go ahead with it. So, what that looks like is we write a letter to the city. Uh, requesting it, that's the sort of the jumping off point. The city then considers. It city council would consider it if approved, it would then go to the county level and the state level, because there are county taxes within this notifications would have to be set. There would be a public hearing. And finally, if it's all approved, there'd be a resolution to approve it. To be clear, the tax abatement is not for all taxes on the property. We would still be paying the same amount of taxes. We are as of right now. It only applies to the incremental taxes that apply to this development itself. It would be a period from 1 to 12 years. Most of them are 10 years. This 1 is 1 to 12. And then it would sunset and so it is a relatively commonplace tool for municipalities across the state. It's used many, many, many, many places and. You know, notably imagine theater applied for and receive this exact. Situation, so it's what we are applying for today. I'm happy to answer any questions. I mean, the core principles place it out here. There is 0 revenue loss. It only evades new new taxes. The increase. The land continues to be taxable. Um. I think I've answered most of these preemptive questions, but again, just let me know if there are any timeline wise. This is a very rough guess again. What I'd probably say here is the only thing I can guarantee is it won't be exactly like this. But it does lay out what steps need to occur. So, in Pre development phase, which we're currently in, we would be going for site plan approval through the planning commission. Tax abatement approval, a city council approval of the lease structure, which replaces the development agreement. But in most instances mirrors it and then building department review and approval for for the project itself and the specifics. If we get through all that successfully, the groundbreaking could occur. However, the litigation does raise certain questions. The easiest route would be if there were some agreement that was reached. Absent that it continues to pose a challenge, we would have to do construction on the site and access would be an issue. I think we could do the project without creating any undue hardship. However, it does open the door for future litigation. Uh, should that be. Desired, um, so the litigation does continue to play a role in the project. Um, we'd like to move ahead, but. There are questions that remain. From a construction standpoint, should we break ground? Let's say in April of 27, all things go well between now and then. I think the best case would look would be a year plus or minus 2 to 3 months. You never know what's going to happen with whether you never know what's going to happen. Nationally, I've been a part of a few projects that got delayed because something wasn't accessible, whether it was a bonding agent for a substrate of a roof, or it was some other necessary part of the project that simply wasn't available based on either tariffs or. Embargoes or issues in the supply chain. A year is a good estimate, I think. Um, in regards to the lease, the blue area, I think that's either blue or purple. Colorblindness is always fun. That's why I wasn't sure if this was on red green. It's always an issue. The lease would. Essentially replace the development agreement, because it would no longer be on. City property, it would all be on our property. So it simply be the city leasing our space. It'd be 5 consecutive 10 year terms as we discussed before the rent reduction would go down to a dollar. The city would be in full control of that site. It would be city programming use city, general maintenance, but for all intents and purposes, it would be a city control site. That said capital maintenance would be our responsibility. We would take the full brunt of of any capital repairs down the line. And our request to the city for the sake of the full development of this space, the provision of everything would be to continue its financial support. But commensurate with the reduction in scope, we would reduce the city's contribution to half what it was. And it would go towards 2 things, which we've identified and. Again, this is a proposal, so I'm open to ideas, but I think these 2 suits projects nicely. It would be to continue its assistance with the necessary infrastructure for the drainage and for a stage canopy. Um, we have ideas for the stage canopy. We've been working with Beck and Raider who's been essentially ours and the city's landscape architect for this project. Uh, we have an idea that I think could work really nicely and it would cost in the ballpark of what I'm proposing. Um, but again, that that's open to design. Review and with the city's contribution to create the stage canopy. I think I think the canopy could really be a noteworthy aspect to this. It not only provides necessary cover for any inclement weather or sun for the bands playing, but it also just. On the ground would otherwise create any band that plays under a nice stage. All of a sudden, uh, is legitimized in a way that, um, more makeshift canopies simply don't don't create. It's a, it's a place making when, um. So this is a concept drawing of the canopy. It was done in SketchUp. So it is rather rudimentary, but it gives you an idea of what we're looking at. We've looked at a number of different types of canopies. You can have, I mean, the sky's the limit in terms of what you can do. But once you start getting into more steel and wood structures, something much more, robust the cost really really starts to skyrocket so this is something that we found that not only creates a nice airy feel but it does protect you from the weather it's anchored with two steel or four steel posts creates a nice canopy and at the same time allows anybody up in balconies or any in the surrounding areas to still see into it it doesn't overhang too much it can be nicely decorated Also pay for some lighting or sound design to be integrated into it, or some branding, whether it's city or otherwise. So. The total request from the city down from 500,000 to 250 with those being the cost estimates for what we look for. think that takes us nothing in that slide. So in summary, what we went over, we went over PA 210. That's the tax abatement request, site plan changes, a reduction in scope, a change in the drainage location, the lease, which is the lawsuit and its effect. And the approval, we will still need to go back to the, but to clarify, I've been in consistent communication with them. This is nothing new for them. They're ready and willing to provide us extensions. I've explained the situation and they said, I've sort of proposed this concept of a reduction scope. And they said, yeah, that what we want to do is see the project move forward. And we're not entirely worried about it being exactly the same as when you proposed it. Everything that I explained to them make sense to them again. Developments across the state are coming across their table all the time and this is not the 1st, 1 that's asking for extensions. It's not the 1st, 1 that sees some litigation of instead. It's not the 1st, 1 that has some modifications, some amendments. So they're still very excited about it. They want to see it move forward and. they're excited to review and likely so with that I will conclude talking at you and I open up to listening I'd love to hear questions or concerns and try to address them as best I can again today is not a decision-making day those will come in the future but more of a clarification day an explanation day And again, I'm available here and after the meeting.

So with that, I'll conclude. Thank you, Mr. Kinley. That was very thorough, very detailed. We appreciate the presentation very much. And of course, again, encourage our citizens and community stakeholders to look at the presentation I do need to be mindful of the time this evening. I need to wrap up promptly at 7 p.m. to transition to our regular meeting. We will do a round robin of questions. I'm going to start to my left and end to my right. I believe we have one member who will be abstaining due to potential conflict, specifically litigation. Everybody will be given five minutes. Please try to exercise some brevity because, again, we do need to wrap up right at 7 o'clock. But per Mr. Kinley's remarks, he will make himself available in the ensuing weeks. If you do have questions, you'd like to meet with him. And the same is true for city staff. If you have any questions for the folks in-house regarding the potential benefits and ramifications of this project, they would welcome you to reach out. So I'm going to start with Councilmember Harmont. Councilmember Harmont, you have five minutes for questions to Mr. Kinley, specifically or to staff if you have them.

Yes. You mentioned litigation holding up the project. Can you tell me how specifically you were advised that there was litigation and what was the amount of time that it held up the project?

Well, how was I advised? I think the court document to public has brought my attention relatively soon, I think, after it was filed. And I guess in terms of delays, we would probably be trying to break ground this month. So the delays began, I think,

Upon filing and just continue, so you were advised to not move forward with the project.

Well, we didn't really yes, but we were not, we just. We were not going to move forward with the project because the litigation.

Okay. So, with the current design that there is no litigation now, there is no grounds for litigation who who's determined that.

The current design is only on our parcel. So we own and control our own parcel.

Okay, so there's there's it is litigation free. There's no chance of litigation with this current design for the city.

With this current design, there is no litigation capable. However, I think I talked about this. There is construction access across the litigated parcel and. That could be an issue.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE BILL FOR THE CITY GOING FROM 500 FROM THE ORIGINAL TO NOW THERE'S BEEN ADJUSTMENT DOWN TO 250,000. Where is the maintenance coming in? I know you guys are taking on the capital improvements and stuff. Where is the maintenance? Because I know there's a discussion about the type of, is it going to be still turf? Is it going to be regular grass? Where is that maintenance? Who's going to be responsible for that maintenance?

It'd be a city-controlled parcel. So the city would be controlling it and maintaining it.

grass or turf?

Oh, sorry. It would continue to be grass for the time being. Turf is outside of our budget scope.

One last question. So we talked about the tax abatement. It has been, precedent's been set for 10 years, but you guys are requesting 12 years. What is that extra two years? What's that variance in cost in abated tax missing by the city?

We'd have to look at the specific numbers. I don't have that off the

Okay, thank you. Council member harm out. May I pretend right? You have 5 minutes if you'd like it.

I just want to start with a brief. Thank you to both practice and the city for I know this is costing you time and money to adjust and readjust and adjust. So I think what you've proposed us today is. um kind of magical in my mind like that you've been able to continue this project while removing the portion the the parcel that would have kind of just extended and refreshed really that's all the city was looking to do but it was more that big part of the drainage that the city was really going to invest in um so i commend you for being able to continue to come up with a project that really benefits the downtown space um and with that asking the city for less and not just taking our You know, charitable saying, you know, we're going to put 500,000 dollars to this project and realistically look at it and say, well, if the city is not actually investing in this drainage and investing in this, then really, it's not 500,000 dollars. So thank you for kind of looking at this realistically with that. I have just 2 quick questions. 1, and if you don't have this off hand, no problem. If the, if the community development director could just email us with this. Do you have offhand the total square footage with and without the the city property of this project? I have those numbers, but I don't have a lot of stuff Okay, if you could just email council with that at some point maybe in your update If I may it might be easier.

Mr. Kelly if you want to just Provide that information to the acting city manager and then he can disseminate it to the full group via his weekly communique.

Okay

Um, and then this is probably for the acting city manager. Do we have a court date for this litigation yet? Do we have any information about the courts?

Okay.

Uh, those are my only 2 questions again. Just I think this information was great. I would love to hear feedback from the community about. how they feel about this, what, you know, sort of their thoughts and feelings are about this sort of, you know, it's shrunken down in scope, but in really realistically in what we're going to be giving to the community through this project will still remain intact. There will just be maybe a visual difference between our sidewalk area and your beautiful sidewalk area when all is said and done. And with the hopes that, you know, should litigation end and we get some sort of settlement or arbitration that the city can then hopefully maintain that portion in the future and make it more seamless looking. It is very disappointing that this has gotten to this point, but I think it is what it is, and I thank you again for working with us and continuing. You could have just walked away, so I appreciate that.

Thank you. Mr. Garibald, you're abstaining, is that correct? That's correct. Council Member Dillon, you have five minutes if you'd like it.

Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Kenley for being here and thank you for meeting with myself and I believe other council members and kind of going through this before we got here tonight. Um, there's a lot of moving parts to it. We know that it's always been that way between sort of a yours ours and the shared concept. Um, and I think it was. In when it was first proposed, it was, it was the perfect. private partnership, public-private partnership. So I'd like to go back and maintain that aspect of it. There's a couple of things that I just want to understand a little bit better. It is a little concerning to me when you say that you can't build a building due to cost because it makes me concerned about what's going to happen at 147 Michigan Avenue. And, you know, if that's going to be something that they're going to say, and that property won't be developed and so that that's a piece that I'm kind of a little hesitant to say out loud a bit. When you talked about building a building back there, and you said there were a lot of obstacles, and I understand that sort of office space is not necessarily. In high demand anymore housing is definitely, but parking was your issue. Did you ever look at other off site properties that you could possibly acquire to have your own parking? Was that ever an aspect of it? Okay. Because I know you talked about doing some underground, but the logistics of that was difficult and I do have concerns about utilizing city lots. Um. And so that's another piece to it. I want to be mindful of my time. Um, I think council member rice had also mentioned it would be interesting to compare the square footage of this to other public spaces and what we were looking at in the past. Most specifically, as it was mentioned earlier, the parking lot space that's currently being utilized for salty summer sounds. How does that space transition into this? And what would that look like? Because that seems to be a much bigger space, but there's a lot of optical illusions because it's hard to imagine the green space because of the slope and things like that. So I'd like to kind of understand, you know, how does activating that space actually look as far as square footage and usable space? Um, and then I would like to understand also the, and I know this was asked by council member how much is understanding the value of the tax abatements, the total value of it for the city at some point. Um, well, I understand you're asking for a reduction by half. So you're asking for a tax abatement in lieu of the rent, but you're also now still asking for a contribution onto your property. Originally our 500,000 was was redeveloping city owned property.

Originally it was just a 500,000 dollar contribution to the project, right?

Which was utilizing for our property.

had been pretty clear that you didn't want to go on.

Correct. And so now we're kind of going backwards on that and we're putting $250,000 of city dollars onto your project. And I guess I'd like to understand of how is this been a past practice of the city and examples of that just to understand because I don't know if we're opening a door to other asks that are similar. And, you know, I know when we talked about the drain early on, there was issues of have we provided. Public utility on private property in other circumstances and understanding that. So, these are just things and I'm just putting a lot out into the universe right now. So, understanding the ramp, so. Your previous plan had its I'm trying to kind of work through the drawings. So you do not have an ADA currently have an ADA point from the rear parking lots.

Oh, we do.

We have full ADA compliance. We simply removed one ramp from the Salt Springs Alley down onto the space.

Okay, so if you park in the parking lot behind there, you can enter, you can traverse 88. okay. It's not just usual. Is it utilizing the ramp? I'm sorry because I thought you had said that the access point was from the wallace building forward. So are you saying it's utilizing the ramp alongside of Max?

In order to get there is a there is an ADA Access that was that is an easement city easement from the parking lot across our property to Ann Arbor Saline Road so we are Increasing that access now with an ADA ramp that goes instead of up to the road It goes down to the back of the building where the cocktail bar would be Into the green space.

Okay

I have to stop it there. We're over time, and I got two more council members to get to before we transition to our regular meeting. Council Member Del Arco, you have five minutes if you'd like it.

Thank you, Mayor. I'll be brief. Mr. Kinley, thank you for coming and giving us a presentation. It was very informative. It is a bit of a shift and pivot in direction, and I think it looks pretty thorough. It looks like you've thought of a lot of nuances and things you could do creatively to solve the issue of the pending litigation. I'm relieved to see that the state legislature has reenacted PA 210 to enable the tax abatement that does simplify things and make things a little cleaner for us to move forward. I just want to better understand, now that we're factoring out the litigated parcel in question, including that in the scope of this project, are all the savings of the $250,000 reduction coming from improvements that were proposed to be made onto that Property or their underground utility is an underground utility work that makes up for the bulk of that 250,000 dollar reduction. I'm trying to understand where those how those numbers differ. The bulk is from the work that was going to be done on that person. Okay, so that that comprises the entire city portion that was being included in the project. And now that that's. Factored out, we're no longer, we don't have any city property going into the project is now exclusively private development. Correct. Okay. That's the 1 point of clarification. I wanted to. Understand for my part, that's really all the questions I have. Sure.

And it's a, it's a parcel that becomes a city control understood for the benefit of the community.

That's it Mr. dollar girl. Yes. Thank you. Council member council member hall. Should we have 5 minutes?

If you'd like it. First of all, thank you, Mr. McKinley. I think... I'm a big person of just keeping moving, moving forward. And so I think that, you know, what you propose today accomplishes that regardless of the litigation, any merits or not of that litigation. So I do appreciate that. The one thing that I actually would throw out there, and I think I've mentioned it to the mayor and our former city manager, I think it could be a real opportunity to include potentially broadband or Wi-Fi in that space. I think that Being able to potentially, I know, first of all, I know that there are a number of grants and programs specifically to allow for rural connectivity and rural broadband. I'm sure we would qualify for a number of those. When I think about affordability for our businesses, even for our citizens, I think, you know, in activating that system, public Wi-Fi could be a way to activate that space, but also to take that cost away from some of our business owners downtown. So I don't know what necessarily, I guess that would be for our acting city manager, of what that could potentially look like from a cost perspective for the city. But if that is something that could be considered, I think it could be a huge boon for the project and the community as a whole. Sounds great.

Any additional? That's it? Okay, very good. Well, Mr. Kinley, before I wrap up, you and I have talked about this project quite a bit in the previous weeks. I think Councilmember DeLarco said it, I think his diction was appropriate, perfect really. I think this represents a pivot and demonstrates some good flexibility on your part. I very much appreciate at the top of your presentation this evening, the visuals of what this area looked like in the late 1980s early 1990s i've been around this town my entire life many people have not um and how that space was utilized and it's aesthetic it wasn't good and that's putting it mildly and there was a really positive transformation that occurred in the mid-1990s made it a whole lot better and today we stand at a inflection point of of making it even better yet again and truly activating it for the public's benefit and to improve the vitality of our downtown. So this is a key priority for me. I'm going to keep moving forward because I want to see this happen. I want to see the city, in partnership with you and other regional partners, break ground next year and inaugurate something that can be Used and valued by the community in late 2027 or 2028. so we look forward to continuing these discussions again for council's benefit. If you have additional questions, if you'd like to continue the dialogue with Mr. Kinley after this meeting, reach out to him. He's always made himself very accessible. And that statement is also true and applicable to staff. If you have any questions or concerns that staff is able to address, please reach out and do that expeditiously. There were a few questions that were brought up this evening, information points, and if you could, at your leisure convenience, get that to Acting City Manager Adkin. He will disseminate it as part of one of his forthcoming weekly communiques.

If there are any further questions, you have my email, you have my contacts, just reach out.

Very good. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it very much. If there's nothing further to be brought forward this evening, the chair would entertain a motion to adjourn this work meeting at 6.55, noting that we will convene in a regular session promptly at 7. Move by Rice to adjourn at 6.55. Is there a second? Seconded by Harmont. All those in favor of adjourning, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Ayes have it. Meeting is adjourned. I'd like to call the Saline City Council meeting for order. If you'd please rise and join my colleagues and I for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you very much. We welcome our guests. We encourage you to sign in in the back. There's also listening devices if you require them and copies of the agenda. Please note we have a one-page agenda that was used for our work meeting and then a much longer one which will be utilized for the meeting that we just started. Members present, Del Arco, Dillon, Gearbaugh, Halsh, Harmout, Mayor Pro Tem Rice, and Mayor Morrow. From city staff, we have Acting City Manager Adkin, City Clerk Royal, DPS Director McNeil, Police Chief Radzik, Deputy Police Chief Hartwig, several officers. Am I missing anybody from staff? I think that's it. At this time, the chair will entertain a motion to approve the agenda as submitted, unless there are amendments. As submitted Mr. Del Arco? As submitted. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Dylan. All those in favor of approving the agenda as submitted signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. There are no absences, so we will dispense with that. We come to subsection three on the agenda, which is public comments. Under the Open Meetings Act, any person may come forward and make comment or ask question. comments will be limited to three minutes per person those wishing to speak are requested but not required to state their name and address for the record please note city council will not answer or respond to questions or comments during this initial public comment period are there any citizen comments this evening please you'll have three minutes once you begin and make sure that the green light is illuminated at the base of the mic good evening uh i'm brett pollington 319 north ann arbor street

I'm here to speak about the city's proposed background check policy. I believe it would unfairly exclude people from volunteering on boards and commissions. In fact, I would encourage council to go the opposite direction and eliminate the requirement altogether. Saline is currently the only city in Washington County that requires any background checks for people applying to serve on municipal boards and commissions. I spoke to every city clerk in the county to confirm that we are the only city with a background check policy for volunteers. I think that alone should make us stop and ask why this policy exists at all. I understand the argument for background checks. We want people serving our community to be trustworthy and responsible, but a criminal background check is not a character test. And a criminal record does not tell us whether someone will be a productive member of a city board. There's also a broader issue we shouldn't ignore. Our criminal justice system has well-documented racial disparities, so even a policy that is race neutral on paper can still disproportionately exclude people of color. In this case, we're using that system to help determine who is allowed to participate in local government. I don't think a criminal background check should be the default price of admission for civic participation. We should be making it easier for residents to participate in their government, not creating unnecessary barriers. So rather than changing this policy, I would ask city council to reconsider the policy itself and eliminate the blanket background check requirement for volunteer boards and commissions. If we're the only city in Washtenaw County doing this, I think the question shouldn't be, how do we make the policy stronger? It should be, why do we have the policy at all? Thanks.

Thank you for your comments. Are there additional citizen comments this evening? Please make sure the green light is illuminated at the base of the mic and you may begin when ready.

Hi, my name is Ed Andrews. I live at 856 North Ann Arbor. Two quick comments. The construction underway on North Ann Arbor of the townhouses Well, it's very huge and we just a lot of people scope of it and the height it's right in my face. I think it's it's too late now, but nobody wants to look at it. When I asked you guys, you wouldn't look at a 3 start building. Not if you looked at me 2nd comment. About three weeks ago on a Sunday morning, I was awakened by police radio outside my house. I looked out and there was probably eight or nine police vehicles, three houses down from my house. Eight or nine individuals were brought out of the house in handcuffs. There was a police wagon there, I guess, to transport people, an ambulance, and I've heard nothing from anybody about this. I've heard that it possibly involved drugs. Somebody stabbed, apparently. But my biggest complaint is that residence for over 30 years has been a rental. The owner has not done anything to improve the outside of the house or the yard, backyard. And for 30 years, I've never saw the garage door open. So recently, and then it was open, I think what it is, the owner stores his stuff in there and cuts, you know, maybe the rent is lowered for some, some reason. But I, I just don't know why some people can do that and not take, you know, that's 3 dollars down for me. It looks bad for our neighborhood. And, you know, a few years back, I put a, we had a garage sale, had a sale or the sign on the wrong side of the sidewalk and somebody from the city came up. There was on the wrong side of the sidewalk, you would force that. But something like that. I think is major. I don't get it.

Thank you additional citizen comments. You'll have 3 minutes once you begin.

Please try and Longmore 325, North Lewis street. I talked to Ed. He tried to get ahold of me. I kind of ignored it. The 1st time I was busy with stuff and the 2nd time I took his information. I searched in a police scanner file records. And I got a thumbnail of what happened, or at least the initial reaction of what happened. I've never heard anything from police on this. By the time I found out about it, I didn't really want to call about it. It was old. I hadn't had any cooperation in a grand scheme of things with police probably since the days of Mike Lindeman. It's been constantly scaled back. I've emailed counsel constantly. Not constantly, but every time a new counsel takes sissy, I email them about this. Apparently, you don't want police coverage. You know what guys don't want? people to know what happens. I'd like to have, you know, if there's a rash of car break-ins, I'd like to have that information the next day. I'd like to have that sort of relationship with people in the police department to have that. But it's, I don't know what's going on. It's hard to explain. I mean, it is what it is. Thanks.

Thank you, Trent, for your comments. Additional citizen comments. You'll have three minutes once you begin.

I always talk a lot. I just want to thank you for having O'Neill fix the dam for what, $60,000 or less? And you guys had Spicer who told you that the dam had to come down. It was immediate. It had to be done. And you guys didn't maintain it. Joe O'Neill has the same dam down in Macon. And he maintained his. No problems. You guys have continually kicked the can down the road. But I think Spicer. was basically should be sued for malpractice. You guys paid a lot of money for a fake story that the dam has fallen down. Have you seen your handicap entrance? There's cracks there. A person could break their neck there. That hasn't been fixed in four months. I've got pictures of it. Have you seen it? Has anybody seen that? Why isn't it fixed? It would cost very little. But what if somebody falls down and sues the city? It's millions of dollars. You guys don't focus. This corporation from data center, they basically, just like you, they're going to sue everybody if they didn't vote for the presentation. So what they did, they caved in. They had documents this big, gave it to a person who wasn't capable of reading it. Data Center has people that are lawyers for a page. These guys are the devil. They got a limited liability corporation. Know what that means? Does anybody know what a limited liability? Their liability is limited. If they go bankrupt, they're gone. The only people that lose are the cities and the government that finance them, and then the other people who lose are the investors. They will sell their stock when they see it going down because what they're doing now is obsolete already. It's obsolete, and China is 20 years ahead of us. And we sit here and think, what are they gonna do when this thing goes, it's obsolete. When it's finished, it's obsolete. What's the plans after that? Do you know? Does anybody know what their plans are? They are gonna go bankrupt because it's not their money. They have no skin in the game. That means limited liability is limited to that thing. This is all over the country, they've done that. If they had an accident there, Do you know that some of those viaducts, the fluids going through there are toxic? It could kill anything. Has anybody researched that? Before you guys give them access to the Saline River, do due diligence. They lie. They try to sue you. And you can't let them run your lives. They are crooks. They are crooks. That's enough. I hate to cut myself. I hate to lose a few minutes talking, but...

Thank you for your comments.

I'm not finished. Today I'm finished. I'm not finished. You guys better, before you grant them any kind of access to screw up our Saline River, it's on your conscience. It's bad. Do the research. Thank you.

Additional citizen comments this evening? Jane, please.

Jane Finkbeiner, I live in Saline Township. I work with Bill and Tyler Kenley, and we are excited about our project uptown. I just, as a woman, just wanted to take a moment and thank all the women who have and who are serving the city of Saline, and I thank them from law enforcement to our council members to everyone who serves on committees. Thank you.

Thank you, Jane. Any additional citizen comments from those in the audience? Let me defer to the city clerk. Were there any written comments provided in advance of tonight's meeting in which the individual wanted their remarks right at this time? Yes. Very good. Well, Mrs. Finkbeiner's comments provide a nice segue to our first of two presentations. And I deeply regret that our friend and colleague Cheryl Heft is not with us this evening. But as many of you know, Mrs. Heft, I refer to her as Mrs. Heft because I remember her as a home economics teacher. has served this community faithfully in a variety of capacities over, my goodness, nearly five decades, and recently retired after more than 30 years as a member of our city's planning commission. In fact, she was, at the time of her resignation, the longest-serving board commission and committee member in the city of Saline, the last person appointed originally by Mayor Little. That gives you some perspective. So at the time of her retirement, I should say retirement instead of resignation, I felt it was appropriate and incumbent upon my office in conjunction with my colleagues to draft a special letter of recognition, a proclamation, which will be delivered to her later this week with some flowers and a small gift. And I want to read it in its totality because it's pretty impressive the contribution that Cheryl Heft has made to this community throughout the duration of her life. So it begins, whereas Cheryl Heff is a lifelong Saline resident attending Saline Elementary through high school. Although her educational journey began in a one-room school in Lodi Township, she graduated from Saline High School and then from Michigan State University. Cheryl dedicated her career to teaching and uplifting the students of Saline as a high school home economics and math teacher. During her teaching career, she served as an advisor to the Saline Future Homemakers of America, which later became the Future Leaders of America. Whereas to help school organizations raise money, Cheryl started the beloved Saline Craft Shows in 1987. Ranked in the top five shows in the state of Michigan, the craft show continues to attract more than 10,000 visitors to our city every year. The show also draws more than 200 crafters from different states to share their creations with the community. And whereas Cheryl's devotion to serving her community continued following her retirement after 26 years of teaching at Saline High School, She acted as chairperson of the Foundation for Salina Area Schools, serving several terms, raising thousands of dollars for a variety of organizations, and conducting instrumental changes within our school system. And whereas Cheryl and her husband Jim Haft worked to bring the Weber Bliss One Room Schoolhouse to life, creating a curriculum for elementary students to visit and experience the living history of this space. From raising $150,000 to relocate the original building in 2002, to sourcing antique furniture to stock the schoolhouse, Cheryl and Jim have ensured that future generations of students have the opportunity to travel back in time. And now, therefore, be it resolved that I, Brian DeMauro, Mayor of the City of Saline, on behalf of Saline City Council and the citizens of Saline, do hereby recognize and extend our sincere congratulations to Cheryl Haft after more than 30 years on the Saline Planning Commission. Cheryl is retiring. Her hard work and dedication to the Commission and the community will forever be appreciated by the City, and I hereby set my hand and seal to this document on the 17th day of August, 2026. Let's all give Cheryl a warm round of applause. And again, we will present this to her with some flowers and a small gift in the ensuing days. But again, Cheryl, on behalf of my colleagues in the community, thank you for your dedicated service and friendship over the past many years. We appreciate it very much. We have another uplifting presentation, and I believe I'm going to turn it over to Chief Radzik. Where is Chief Radzik, by the way? Oh, would you like to come forward to the podium? I missed you there. If there's anybody else you would like to bring forward, I notice that you're sitting next to our chief prosecutor and county sheriff. Ladies, we appreciate you being here this evening. Thank you very much.

And Bridget Seams is in the back.

Sergeant Seams, raise your hand. It's good to see you. It's been a while. And we have Jeannie Hess, former Officer Hess is with us as well.

And she kind of started all of it.

Yeah, and of course, two current officers are in the front row as well.

Yes.

Very good.

Officer Roshani and Officer Seja and Killian. Yes. So I didn't know if you were going to speak at all, Jim, but I'll just, first of all, say thank you also, Ms. Spinkbeiner, for your acknowledgement. And I just wanted to say, as a female chief of police this day, The 12th of September holds a profound significance to me. It's a moment to recognize not only how far we have come, but also the vital impact women continue to make in shaping the future and landscape of policing. I feel women bring a unique perspective, exceptional communication skills, and critical de-escalation strategies to public safety. Studies and lived experiences continuously show that female officers excel in building community trust, managing complex interpersonal dynamics, and fostering empathetic, effective law enforcement. So to all the women serving on the front lines in specialized roles and in executive leadership, and those women who have retired and made our path a little easier to follow in their footsteps, I thank you for your commitment, your courage, and your unwavering dedication to keeping our community safe. You are inspiring the next generation of leaders who will carry this noble profession forward. And I've always said, and if anybody has read the article, I knew when I was five I wanted to be a police officer. So I will leave it that little girls with dreams become women with vision. Thank you.

And as we celebrate women in law enforcement, I want to note there are a number of firsts in the room this evening. Of course, Marlene Radzic is the first female police chief. Leisha Dyer is the first female sheriff. Victoria, are you the first chief deputy female prosecutor in Washtenaw County? Bridget Seams was the first female who was promoted beyond the rank of road patrol, so congratulations. And of course Jeannie Hess was the first female officer and you began your tenure with us in 1974.

Very good, congratulations.

and proceeded to have a very distinguished career. Interesting transition. Went from police officer to assessor. That doesn't happen very often. Those are very unique skill sets, but congratulations. Council Member Daryl Orko, you were the council member who wanted this added as a presentation. Is there anything you'd like to add at this time?

I just wanted to make sure that we were able to recognize National Police Woman Day when it was on the agenda. We didn't have an opportunity to organize this. We're celebrating and recognizing this day here in Saline and in Washtenaw County to highlight What makes us unique? Celine PD currently has its first female chief ever. Washtenaw County Sheriff's Office has its first female elected sheriff. I just want to read a few excerpts from the proclamation that was part of our consent agenda a meeting or two ago. Women police officers bring invaluable perspective, skills, compassion, leadership, and dedication to the communities they serve, strengthening the profession and the relationship between law enforcement and the public. These women serve in a variety of roles and responsibilities, including patrol investigations, leadership, community engagement, training, and other essential functions contributing every day to the safety and well-being of our community. The City of Saline recognizes and appreciates the dedication of the women who have served, who currently serve and will continue to serve in law enforcement, and acknowledges the positive example they provide to future generations. I personally have witnessed Chief Radzic bring training and policy initiatives to our department with empathy and compassion for our residents, and that has strengthened our department and our trust with the community. And for that, I am grateful. I'm grateful for all of you that joined us here this evening.

Good. Thank you, Mr. Councilmember DeLarco. Is there anyone else from the Davis who would like to add anything? No, all good. I believe the editor of the Slim Post just exited. Sue Couch from the Sun-Time, would you like to get a picture of all of our female officers, current and past? Very good. So maybe I could invite them out in the hallway, would that be best, so we can proceed with the remainder of our meeting? And I'm sure you'd like the Chief Deputy Prosecutor and Sheriff to join you as well? Very good. Thank you all for attending this evening. Appreciate your service. Okay, friends, we're going to proceed with the balance of our agenda. It's my understanding, per the city clerk, that a number of items have been requested to be removed from the consent agenda. Apparently, emails were sent after I vacated the office this afternoon around 3.30, so correct me if I'm wrong. The only things that will remain on the consent agenda are 26-160 Chevy Tahoe Uplifts and 26-161 Appointment of Delegates to MERS Annual Meeting.

Yeah, that needs to be corrected. It's not MERS. It's MML.

Oh, okay. That change will be made without objection. Okay. So is there a motion then to approve the consent agenda as amended, noting that all of the remaining items will be added to new businesses? Moved by Gearbaugh to approve the consent agenda as amended. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Harmount. All those in favor of approving the consent agenda as amended, signify by saying aye. Aye.

Aye.

Opposed, say nay.

Nay.

Ayes have it, and the motion carries. We come now to 6.1, minutes of the August 17th, 2026 meeting, city council meeting and special meeting of August the 25th, excuse me, and August the 25th, 2026. This will be a motion to approve the minutes as amended unless there are amendments.

Correction, the reason I moved it, there's a correction to the 817 one. On the consent agenda item, I voted nay on that. That is not reflected in the minutes.

Okay, change is made without objection. Would you like to make a motion then to approve the minutes as amended? Okay, moved by Gearbot to approve the minutes as amended, noting that one addition. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Dillon. Assuming there's no discussion, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Ayes have it. The motion carries unanimously. Subsequent agenda item is 6.2, bills consisting of 197 payees in the amount of $3,706,252.36. This will be a motion to approve the bills as submitted or to begin by acknowledging receipt.

Move to acknowledge receipt.

Move by Dillon to acknowledge. Is there a second? I'll 2nd for discussion. I'm sorry. I didn't see emails before I departed. So I don't know who requested that that item be removed.

I requested there were 2 things. Unfortunately, I was out of the country and was not able to access packet in advance. And so there were a couple of things that came to light a little bit late that I'd like to just understand and clarify. There were 2 charges on the bills. 1 is regarding check number 75. 632 to market for mayor moral annual senior conference in the amount of 941 dollars and 49 cents just for clarification. It was. My understanding that these are events that the mayor hosts himself, and I'm just clarifying why the city is paying for them.

Yeah, I wish that question would have been received in advance because I could have easily addressed it prior to the meeting. So that's simply a pass-through. You can confirm with the city treasurer, but we received a corporate donation in the amount of $1,000. That check was written, I believe, in the first quarter of this year, made out to the city of Saline specifically for the mayor's conference.

Okay, thank you for that. And the other question is in reference to... Pardon me, because there were a couple of things. To understand it was, I think it's back here. There was, um, there's another charge check number 75598 to people's express for shuttle bus for group tour around Celine 340 dollars just for clarification. What was that for? And who was participating?

We'll have to confer with with the appropriate individuals, but we can disseminate, uh, an answer via either earlier in the week, uh, uh, acting city manager at can or via your weekly communicate check. No, I'm sorry.

The check number is 75598 vendor is people's express shuttle bus for group tour around Celine.

That was 2.

Let's just confirm with the city treasurer. I want to make sure what we're conveying is factual and accurate. Are there any additional questions?

No, those are the two questions regarding.

Okay. There's a motion. Were there other questions regarding bills? There's a motion on the floor moved by Dylan seconded by moral to acknowledge all those in favor. Say aye. All right. Is there a motion to approve or not to approve? Moved by Rice to approve. Is there a second? Seconded by Gearbaugh. All those in favor of approving, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Aye. The motion carries unanimously. We move on to new business item 26-162, resignation of Dean Gearbaugh from the Davenport Curtis Working Group to accept the resignation as submitted. Is there a motion to accept the resignation?

Move to acknowledge.

Move by Dylan simply to acknowledge. Is there a second? I'll second. Seconded by Del Arco. Again, I have no idea who removed this and for what reason.

I removed this document. I do not have an issue with the resignation of Mr. Gearbaugh, but according to that committee's bylaws, we need to replace Mr. Gearbaugh with another council member. So just understanding if that's going to be done simultaneously.

Oh, I don't have the bylaws in front of me, so I don't know that to be true. It may be true. It is true. It says it has to be two council members? Yes. Okay. Well, I guess what I would recommend, then, if there's a council member who is interested in that, please reach out to my office. I'd be happy to discuss expectations and goals and time commitment, and we can add that to a future agenda, either at our next meeting or at our subsequent meeting in October.

And when will that committee be meeting again?

Um, they meet a week from this Wednesday, the 26th, 23rd, I think we have that established then for our next council meeting. So that there's a person in place for the next assuming there's somebody who's interested in doing it and has the, the, the, the skill set, of course, acumen and willing to invest the appropriate time. Absolutely. So, again, reach out if you're interested in serving in that capacity. So, it's moved by Dylan, seconded by Del Arco, simply to acknowledge we see the resignation. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. I say that the motion carries unanimously. Is there a motion now to accept the resignation?

Move to accept.

Move by Dylan to accept. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Del Arco. All those in favor of accepting the resignation, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Ayes have it. The motion carries unanimously. We move on to agenda item 26-163, liability and property pool insurance renewal. This will be a motion to approve the MML liability and property insurance renewal effective September 1, 2026 through August the 31st, 2027.

Move to acknowledge.

Moved by Dylan simply to acknowledge is there a 2nd, 2nd, and by again, I'm in the dark here. I have no idea who requested this be removed again.

I had requested it just understanding based on the memo that was provided. We have a 25% increase in this, which is more than 10% from last year. But my bigger concern is, it's not showing when it says amendment required. No, within budget, but it's actually looks to be over the budgeted amount. If you look at what the economic impact is versus. What's in the budget?

Yeah, the increases, like, speak to those, um, we're, we're increasing wages and employee turnover, payouts, things like that. And then premium is an increase for the assets due to the construction of the wastewater treatment plant, the mansion, other assets that were added to the. Uh, insurance policy, sorry that's fine.

I thank you for that clarification. So I understand the increase. Do we have a budget shortfall? The amendment says it's within the budget, but if you look at above it, it says economic impact renewal premium is 261 minus the subsequent dividend of 6900 for a total impact of 254. And it's saying that within budget would be 205.

So, we're almost 50,000 short split between departments somewhere else various funds.

Is it problematic in any for any reason acting city manager that can if this item to get some more clarity if this item be postpone until the next meeting, which is just 1 week away.

I'm fine with it. If we need to approve it, I just would like to understand where that extra $50,000 is coming from.

I don't think they're In fact, 2 weeks ago.

Yeah. Okay. Additional questions. I'll jump to gear bond and harm out for future reference.

I noticed that also in another item that we're gonna have later, if we can show where the money's coming from, when we budget, if we're over budget, we should be showing which line is being reduced in order to offset. Because it seems like it's all coming out of fund balance.

Thank you. Good point. Council.

And also, if I recall, we're supposed to make sure that all. Everything all the expenses related to the Curtis mansion should be applied to the Curtis mansion account. So we're keeping track of how much is being allocated towards the Curtis mansion.

Itemize what the premium increase was for that.

Additional questions from the desk the motion on the floor moved by Dylan, seconded by gear boss, simply to acknowledge all those in favor. Say aye. Aye. Say nay. I just have the motion carries unanimously. Excuse me, we can move to approve. Of course, not approve, which would seem... Move to approve. Okay, move to approve by Gierbaugh. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Del Arco. Is there any additional discussion? Appears to be none. All those in favor of approving, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. I just have it in the motion carries unanimously. Clerk Roy, you're going to tell me on this one. Are we still... 6.5, is that still an item that had previously been under consent? This is new business now. Okay. I'm working with a slightly revised agenda due to the removals. So we come to agenda item 26-164, ESRI three-year agreement. This will be a motion to acknowledge receipt and to approve or not to approve the ESRI three-year agreement as submitted.

Move to approve.

You want to acknowledge first? I'm sorry, move to acknowledge and to approve. Move by rights to acknowledge and to approve. Is there a second? Second. I'm going to go with Gearball and get you on the next one, Councilmember Del Arco. Who's taking the lead on this from staff? DPS director, Mr. McNeil, please proceed.

So the three-year contract is with Esri. Esri is the software company that hosts the GIS platform that we utilize. So previously we had a one-year contract in the amount of $15,500. The contract amount went up at the yearly basis of $20,600. As you know, the software... that we utilize this tracks all of our assets so we use it for multiple work orders that we do throughout the year as far as valve turning that will be happening we just created a mystic app to track all of our mistakes and take pictures so we have proof of what was and a wide other assortments as you have seen in presentations throughout your tenure. So this is, I asked for it to be a three-year contract, a lock in pricing for the next three years. So over the next three-year term, it would be $61,800. However, it would just be the $20,600 per year. And this would be to create a blanket PO by the finance team so that they can track the expenses over the next three years.

Very good. Pretty clear and succinct. Other questions from the dais? Council Member Dillon?

Thank you. Thank you for bringing this forward. And I appreciate that you were looking at a multi-year contract. Was there any opportunity to move to an even higher year, like a five-year, as we know that we're keeping GIS? And what I'm afraid of, we've already seen a significant increase. In three years, are we going to look at another big hike? Would we be better to lock in for any length of time?

I didn't ask for a five-year contract. Typically I do understand where you're coming from, how we're not going to be parting ways with GIS anytime soon. Usually a three-year contract is a reasonable request that they will facilitate agreeing to do. It doesn't mean that under the direction of council or city manager that perhaps next year or currently after we agree to this one, if that's the choice of council, that we couldn't reach out and communicate the want to do a five-year agreement. So, it's just up to council and city manager if that's something that we'd like to do.

No, I appreciate you with that with that mentality that I would love to see this diary to offer for like a year and then approach them and say, can we add years on at a different rate? Because, like you had said, is not going away. So understanding and making sure that we are. Budgeting adequately every year, and even building a bit of a cushion into that. So if we have to do a pull ahead for it, and then understanding kind of going back to Mr gear boss question when we talk about needing an amendment of for it, where those funds come from.

Understood. I know in subsequent agenda items that I worked on specifically with the treasure. That was something that we were are going to make sure that we implement and it is on the other 1. so I apologize for that.

That's okay. I appreciate that. So, thank you very much.

There's no questions in the desk.

I just want to 2nd, my council colleague, but still, and as raise the as raise the system too. So we know we're not competing this in 3 years. If we could maybe in a year, reach out to them and be like, hey, can we do another 5 or as long as they'll keep us? But that's probably also their hook is that no, because I know you need us. So, yeah, just wanted to 2nd, any additional questions or comments.

Any discussion on the motion. It's been properly moved by Rice, seconded by Gearbaugh to acknowledge and to approve. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Aye. I say aye. The motion carries unanimously. Moving on to agenda item 26-165, salt barn cover replacement. This will be a motion to acknowledge receipt and to approve or not to approve the salt barn cover replacement by Clear Heights Construction in an amount not to exceed $44,920. Move to acknowledge and to approve. Moved by Gearbaugh to acknowledge and to approve. Is there a second? Boy, I'm going to go rice on that one. I think I heard Dylan and Del Arco as well, but I'll try to get you on the next subsequent motions. Again, DPS Director McNeil, the floor is yours.

Thank you. So this was discovered on the July 4th weekend where we had high winds that the two seams on each part of the salt barn were ripped at the seam. So they're only going to get worse throughout the years and eventually the salt won't be covered. Uh, so we got with, uh, L. Gretzman, um, HR director, asked if this is something that we could take to our, uh, warranty, uh, MML to get covered through, uh, I'm sorry, insurance. Um, as when we asked for the quote, the quote, um, for the repair was $44,920. So that was, that's really expensive. So we've seen if we could get this covered by our insurance, uh, working through insurance, uh, They're going to relieve $35,936 minus the deductible of 500 as covered expenses through insurance, which leaves the city's portion at $9,484 to cover the rest of the replacement. We had two options for the replacement term of the warranty. which was 20 years and 25 years. There was only a $1,500 difference. So I elected to bring forward the 25-year warranty for the additional five years. It made the most sense to me to do that. And so the total balance on this in order to get it repaired, of course, is $44,920. However, $35,936, sorry, $35,436 is being covered through insurance.

Pretty good. Seems pretty clear and straightforward. Thank you for that. Are there questions for our DPS director? Let me jump to Gierbaugh first and see who's the mover, and then I'll go down to Councilmember Harmout.

I just wanted to say thank you for your due diligence on this because we've always had this ability with MML to basically get our roofs replaced when this type of damage has been quickly discovered and accomplished. So even though we just had a very much large increase on our premiums, this helps offset that type of situation so we don't have to take it out of fund balance. Thank you for doing this work. Thank you. Council Member Harmo?

Was any of this covered by the installer for the warranty?

There was... Roughly, there was a prorated warranty of $1284 that was covered for this issue.

Was that appropriate to the terms of the warranty?

It does seem to be appropriate.

With the new cover that we're replacing, is it going to be a better design so that it wouldn't blow off in the severe storm?

It's a thicker material. So with the 20-year warranty, it was a little thinner material. 25-year warranty was a thicker material. And that was another reason why I thought it was appropriate to go with that to hopefully reduce this happening again in the future.

Is there any difference to the attachments?

No, no, it will be constructed the same.

Would that be an issue?

It's hard to say. I don't think there's much room for it to be adjusted. Seems how the structure is designed as it is. So they have to conform the new cover to the same structure. And I'm hoping again that the thicker material is going to hold up better to a windstorm that it previously did.

Thank you. Additional questions from the desk. Councilman Dylan.

Thank you. Were there other opportunities for the funds other than fund balance? Is there any budget items that could be adjusted? Um. And then kind of understanding, I'd like that when we see things that are coming from fund balance to also see sort of a tally of what's coming out of fund balance. So we understand that versus what's coming out of departmental budgets or whatever the case may be.

I know that finance director Finch. Had me put in here there, we're decreasing the expenditure line from GL number 202999-998001 by that $9,848 to cover the cost. Right. Which are fund balance dollars, not within the department dollars. So this is general funds, what you're...

Yes, I assume is that what this is, when it says fund balance, is she referring to that this is general fund balance? Or do we have different fund balances? And it's a different use of words.

I'd have to believe it's general fund, because I don't know what restricted fund you could take out of for this type of work.

Yeah, because this is going to be covered under the streets. So that would be general fund money.

Any additional questions or comments? Go ahead. I just have a comment. Didn't we get like 15 years out of that roof? Yeah, I think those are 20. okay. So we got our money's worth. The wind is unfortunate, but I'm glad we're able to get it covered in that storm.

I would say we walked.

It was I would Mr. Gearball can correct me if I'm wrong. I would say it's pre 2010 for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Originally, I believe the funds came through M dot funding in order to pay for that or some of the assault barn. So that was also another good addition at that time.

Yeah. Yeah, remember. In the school. Yeah, that's a good point. Remember, we store for the schools. That's a partnership. Good collaboration between two important governmental entities. We have a motion on the floor. Moved by Gearbaugh, seconded by Rice to acknowledge and to approve. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Ayes have it. The motion carries unanimously. We move on to agenda item 26-166, janitorial services. This will be a motion to acknowledge receipt and to approve or not to approve the janitorial service bid from facilities 360.

Move to acknowledge.

Move by Dillon simply to acknowledge. Is there a second? I'll second. I'll give to Del Arco on this one. Who would like to kick this off? Clerk Royal, very good.

Yes.

Pull that microphone a little bit closer to you. Thank you.

Most of this stuff is covered in the cover memo, but I just wanted to give you a little overview. City Manager Swallow, myself, Police Chief Radzik, DPW, Um, personnel, Priscilla, Anderson and rec center, sunshine, Lambert all met, uh, regarding the, um, bid for the, or for the information for the janitorial services. Um, these are for janitorial services for city hall, police department, rec center and facilities. We posted it on midnight 19 companies have attended our mandatory premium walk through. We actually received 11 bids, but 1 did not have all the requirements. So it was not accepted the pricing and the ability to meet the specifications and service requirements after going through all of the bids. We felt that facilities 360 provides the best overall value to the city based on the competitive bid, strong references and detailed service plan and the ability to meet our specifications and service requirements. representative here from Facilities 360 who can answer questions that I may not be able to.

Very good. Are you our guest, sir? Yes. Wonderful. Why don't you come to the podium and give us just a little bit of background of your enterprise and your history of working with comparable jurisdictions.

Yes. Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity. My name is Ray Awad. I'm one of the owners for Facilities 360. We are based in Ann Arbor right on Carpenter Road. We've been very successful in 2 sectors. We're in multiple sectors, but 2 mainly is the education and municipality. So, I think that we have a good formula and. If we are awarded it, we look forward to a great partnership and not to put you guys. How can I say, exceed any of your expectations, hopefully. Okay.

We appreciate your attendance this evening. Why don't you hang tight at the podium in the event that there are questions that you can best address. Clerk Rowe, is there anything else you'd like to add? Anything from the acting city manager or DPS director on this?

References were checked, I think mostly.

Excellent. Glad to hear that. Questions from the DAIS? Councilmember Dillon.

Thank you. Sue, can you remind me when does our current janitorial contract end?

It actually ended in November of last year.

Okay.

And so we've just been operating without a contract?

We have the ability to continue from month to month and that's what we've been doing. Okay.

Um, okay, thank you for that. Um, I noticed in here that you've mentioned that there were some deficiencies with with our current company. Uh, were those brought to their attention?

Yes, especially with the right center. The right center had some major questions and they, they came out repeatedly and spoke with sunshine and they continue here. We have, um. Our biggest complaint is that our cleaning starts like tonight is started at 4 PM when they're running the vacuum cleaner and you're trying to talk to people at the counter or on the telephone. It is very hard to talk to somebody. They also leave our floor very damp in the kitchen in our restrooms, which is a slip hazard when you go in there. So there's just. And there's there's some deficiencies in other areas, but those were our big complaints and I mean, we could always go with the lowest bid, but we're not going to get better service. We're going to continue with what we have.

I understand. So these issues were brought to their attention and we're not corrected and we still continue to pay them.

We didn't have anybody new to go. This is I've been working on this bid for probably 4 months.

So, okay. Um, that that's kind of concerning that we, that we were had subpar service and we continue to pay at the full contract rate. There should have been some sort of negotiation. I would think happening in that regard. Um. It does there's also concerns about you had mentioned about cleaning products and things like that. It was my understanding that city provided those cleaning products.

I don't know. I know we have a cleaning closet, but I don't know who provides those products.

I believe the city purchases those products for them. So if we've got issues with product, I think we need to make sure that we're looking internally at that.

Um, also, I'm sorry, I don't think the products is a problem. It's just that the smell of the products while you're here at work is very overwhelming. I like the cleaning cleaning. Where the floors right very strong smell right?

I guess I'm just very concerned about the fact that if you had issues with them starting to vacuum at four o'clock Why were they not sent away and said you have to come back after business hours?

the Four o'clock it was earlier than that I Couldn't give you an exact timeline. I believe it goes back about a year

It's just very disappointing that the former city manager did not deal with this in a more swift timeline that we've gotten to this point. I am looking forward to moving to a different service if that's what you feel is necessary with that. There is a significant price increase. And so understanding where those dollars are coming from.

I did work with a treasure bench and the information is on the sheet showing where the monies are going to be moved from and some will be increased and some will be decreased. But this is something that we have worked through. So, the money, the funds are there. Okay. Thank you.

Can I ask you a quick question? And my apologies that my memory doesn't serve me well in this regard. Historically, who took the lead on managing this contract or vetting and screening replacements when we've changed janitorial services in the past?

Well, Katrina had been in charge of the contracts and agreements. And Katrina Ritchie, I'm sorry. But when she left, nobody took over that. And so when she left, I started... Creating a spreadsheet for all the contracts, so that we can keep up with them and I did that city manager swallow know about the contract becoming coming to an end. But I don't know what happened, but it just never got do you recall clerk row who managed the contract prior to miss Richie?

if not it's not a big deal just curious i think council member uh dylan's point is well taken and hopefully there are protocols and safeguards in place that when a contract of this magnitude and size ends particularly when we're not completely satisfied with the service we don't continue to let it linger in in perpetuity from november to september the contract actually

expired February 8th of this year.

Oh, okay. Still, that's better, but yeah, still a bit of a time lapse I hope can be rectified in the future. Just to confirm, I'm not in the building all day every day, but I am here rather frequently, and I can concur with what staff is articulating, which is vacuuming, mopping of the floors is distracting during the workday when we're on the phone, we're on Zoom meetings, we're having to deal and interact and interface with our constituents, so...

There is absolutely no reason why they should be here during business hours. That makes no sense to me. Good.

I'm glad that we got your verbal commitment that that will be rectified and resolved as soon as you're brought on board. We appreciate that. Council Member Gearbaugh.

Perhaps we're going to have a meeting of the Financial Policy Committee, so maybe we'll talk about contract recognition. Contract renewals and that type of thing is part of that policy oversight. Just a quick question. Have all these issues that you just brought up from our current provider been addressed in this contract with the new provider and able to make sure how those communications and complaints will be handled?

Yes, they have a clear path of in there. It's in actually in their outline of how to. issue complaints or he's very accessible obviously I called him today to let him know it was on the agenda and he's here so it's not that the other people didn't listen they were there we could talk to him it's just that nothing got changed okay And the 1 thing that I really liked is that when we called for the references for facilities, 360 was that they said that not only are they happy with the service they're getting, but they plan to renew when the contract comes up. And then the final thing is, is that we were going to be hiring a building supervisor and I was hoping that whoever becomes this building supervisor, we oversee this contract. I took it on because the city manager left and we had already started this process. But this is not something that I'm used to doing.

So no, totally understand that. But I appreciate so that should be distributed to someone either to use our facilities or manages that kind of aspect.

Yeah, no, I think that makes perfect sense to put this under the portfolio of a facility manager. Once that individual is onboarded Mr. Del Arco. Did you have a question?

More of a comment. I just, I hope that this will serve as a cautionary angel to the council that it doesn't always pay to go with the lowest bid. I think this isn't the 1st time we've been. And in the backside by having a default setting of going after the lowest bid on contracts, and I think we need to be more careful about that.

Mayor put Tim Rice and then council member Halsh.

I just want to pass this message on to the acting city manager that as we get new city managers, and I particularly love this background memo that we've received. I felt very well informed became before I came became in here on what the situation was what we're looking at. So. you know, maybe it doesn't always need to be this thorough when we bid out very large contracts that are complicated, but the more information for us, the easier it is for us to come up with the right questions. So, thank you for this.

Council Member Halsh?

Yeah.

Not necessarily related to this particular bid, but as I was looking at some of the other bids, it mentioned their employees and kind of what level of employee, I guess. And it kind of made me think, do we take into consideration or give, I guess, extra points to companies that pay their employees livable wages?

No, you're looking at the bottom line. I'm sorry, probably not what you want to hear. I did want to mention that they will all have to be vetted through the department, but the information I got showed that they work, but we do not take their wages into consideration. What we take in is what what the cost is to the city.

You have a responsible contractors ordinance in place, right?

Yeah, that does. I'm happy to provide you or get you a copy of that, Councilmember Hulse, although I will say that there might be some value in addressing your point. It's well taken, at least by me, at the policy committee level, because I do think that's an aspect that should be considered when approving contracts. So I think it's a good suggestion, worth having a subsequent discussion. I know you have a laundry list of items to evaluate and pursue at the policy committee, but maybe that can be added for a future discussion. Councilmember Dillon, before we wrap this up,

Thank you. Just very quickly, just following up on what Clerk Royal had said, just to confirm that there will be full background checks, especially for those that are working at the rec center, because I know that had been a past practice. Yes.

Thank you. We have a motion on the floor. Moved by Dillon, seconded by DeLarco, simply to acknowledge receipt. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Ayes have it. The motion carries unanimously. Is there a motion now to approve or not to approve? Move to approve. Oh, boy, I'm going to go switch it. I'm going to do Del Arco as the mover to approve the janitorial service bid from facilities 360 and Dylan as the second. Is there any additional discussion on the motion? Proceed to vote. All those in favor of approving, say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. Ayes have it. Motion carries 7-0. Thank you very much. Look forward to working with you. Appreciate the opportunity. Yep. We're going to move on to agenda item 26-167, Barnes Court FY27 proposed budget amendments. This will be a motion to acknowledge the seat and to approve or not to approve the FY27 budget amendments associated with the Barnes Court resurfacing project. Is there a motion?

Move to acknowledge.

Moved by Dylan simply to acknowledge. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Gearbaugh. This item was addressed and discussed and approved unanimously at the most recent LDFA meeting. It was a special LDFA meeting, which I chair. It's pretty cut and dry. Acting City Manager Atkins, is there anything else you'd like to add?

This is a combination. Actually, the next three items are a combination that build off of each other. And yes, as you stated, the LDFA approved to put forth some funds for this, which I believe will exhaust the fund balance of the LDFA.

Questions from the dais? Council Member Halsh? It's sort of tangentially related, but have we received any update in regards to our LDFA? the remedy for that is going to be.

I have not. I can go back through previous information and look to see if there's been any.

Yeah, if I recall correctly, Councilmember Halsh, it requires a legislative fix at the state level. There's a couple other governmental jurisdictions, I think one or two in Monroe or Lenawee County, who were facing a similar predicament, and I believe the legislation was introduced by Senator Bellino. But, of course, it's an election year. The legislature is in recess and probably not going to do anything of a substantive nature until after November. But we can confirm and get back to you on that. And either disseminate the information via special email or part of Active City Manager Atkins' weekly communique. Thank you. Yep. Councilmember Gierbaugh.

Yeah, same question on that and likely without it being specific to the City of Saline, we don't have anything that we would fall against to try and do that. We should either consider reestablishing an LDFA to try and capture future funds or do something else different. It's unfortunate this mistake was not caught by four different departments and a loss of over $170,000 a year in tax recapture. This money has to come out of major streets, which means we're losing out on repairing streets. Again, this is another example of if we're not keeping an eye on the clock, we're going to continue to suffer.

Additional questions from the days. Okay. We have a motion on the floor simply to acknowledge receipt and that was moved by Dylan. Seconded by gear bottles in favor. Say aye. Aye. Say nay. I have the motion carries unanimously. Is there a motion now to approve or not to approve move by your body approve? Is there a 2nd. 2nded by Rice. Any additional discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. I say the motion carries unanimously. Again, these are all related or interconnected rather. 26-168 resurfacing change order. This will be a motion to acknowledge receipt and to approve or not to approve the beach and soft trail court resurfacing change order number 2 from Asphalt Specialist LLC in the amount of $330,769.60.

Move to acknowledge and to approve.

Move by Gierbaugh to acknowledge and approve. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Del Arco. Again, city staff, acting city manager, DPS director, any comment you'd like to make? Pretty straightforward.

Go ahead. This is a change order to the previously approved Beach Court Sock Trail resurfacing project that was approved. We received favorable pricing from asphalt paving specialists. They performed the work on time and we received good news about their work. So we thought it was reasonable for the price that they had locked down in this contract that we asked that they keep that same pricing. For that reason, we thought it was a good idea to create a change order to have Barnes Court done, seeing as how it needs a full depth HMA pavement removal and replacement. For that reason, we bring this forward to you to get that taken care of. Also with us today from OHM is Marcus, our principal engineer, that helped us along this path as well for this agenda item and also for the second agenda item. Marcus, if you could come up and help answer any questions they may have. Other than that, this is seeking an amendment of $330,000, $770. To complete this work, $200,000 will be coming from the remaining funds of the LDFA, and the rest of the money would be allocated through the street fund.

Marcus, thank you for your patience and attendance this evening. Anything you'd like to add for the record before we open it up for questions?

No, I would just say that the pricing was favorable initially, which is why we recommended entering into the contract in the first place. By doing this via change order, you actually save a lot of administrative and engineering costs. We don't have to rebid it. We don't have to redesign. The work is very similar to work they already completed. They completed it well, so we're confident with the contractor. And it's a overall savings to the city to do this now via this process.

No, this is a very prudent approach. I'm glad to see this on the agenda this evening. Well done to all involved. Questions from the dais? Council Member Dillon?

Thank you. I appreciate that you were able to kind of make the magic work and kind of get a two for the project costs. What I wanted to understand is if I remember right with Barnes Court, didn't we do like a cement thing? I feel like there was more than just pavement. that in the in the what i call the light bulb in the in the turnaround portion um I thought there was another that it was there was something that was that was redone in concrete because of the truck turning right in there.

Um, Barnes doesn't have that. Same traffic pattern essentially the really the traffic in and out as into American soy in the back.

So they don't I guess that's what I was going to say is it's nothing but. Heavy tractor trailer traffic. So are we concerned by just doing an asphalt that it's going to maintain.

Like, do we, so the, the payment design is the same thickness and aggregate base and asphalt thickness as the asphalt portion of each court.

Okay. But we don't need the cement aspect to it. Okay. I appreciate that.

It's specific to the traffic patterns where the industry drives are located. Okay. The volume of turnaround traffic called that. So that was looked at and considered, but I appreciate that.

And then. Just point of reference, and I won't put anybody on the spot just to ask, are we then done with all of our courts? Have they all been done at this point? In the industrial, because these all the industrial courts, when was tough done?

I don't have the answer to that right now, since how no, I won't. Yeah, I was wondering with you on filling in that answer. I can say when I looked at the area when I seen that we had more funds, I didn't really realize exactly where we could use those funds. But after they told me it was to a specific area, I looked over the area and it seems like this is the last important 1 that we get done. And these streets in this area are going to last for. You know, the next 5 to 10 years, hopefully, unfortunately, we did lose the funding for it, but we'll have a little bit of time to start recouping that the funds to prepare for a future project in this area. So I don't think there's any outstanding rows that are in significant disrepair as, you know, Barnes court is.

I'm just trying to understand that going back to Mr gear boss point of now that we've completely depleted understanding that if there are other projects, it's coming out of general fund roads. And so just trying to understand that, so we can plan to go ahead.

Mr. just want to the inside with that. I'd like to consider our council review, maybe with our treasurer that we should be able to continue to allocate the funds that are associated with the tax capture related to the city's portion that could be put back in the for those projects. So, if we earmark those to go in there. I looked at the budget right now and apparently last year we had like 100 and some 1000, but then 26, it says only 76. so I'm not sure. But I think if we consider that our council should consider in the future is to look at that and continue to put those funds towards that so that they aren't spent on something else because it's important. Those monies were recaptured to continue to provide the adequate roads and infrastructure for our businesses in those areas so that they continue to want to stay in saline.

Very good. Any additional questions or comments done sometime between 2008 2010.

I know it was done during my tenure. I thought no, no, but that predates your tenure.

Okay. Might have been might have been 8 when I was 1st, a candidate for elected office because I don't I mean, you could be right. I just, I simply don't recall when that that was done last. Very good. We have a motion on the form moved by Gearbaugh, seconded by Delarco to acknowledge and to approve. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Aye. I say that the motion carries unanimously. And the last item is 26-169, OHMCE Services. This will be a motion to acknowledge receipt and to approve or not to approve the OHMCE Services in an amount not to exceed $23,500. Is there a motion to acknowledge and to approve?

Acknowledge and approve.

Moved by Gearbot to acknowledge and approve. Is there a second?

Second.

Seconded by Rice. DPS Director, would you like to begin? And maybe our guests from OHM would like to share a few remarks? Absolutely.

Yes, Mayor Council. So this is for CE services provided by OHM for construction layout, construction observation, material testing, construction engineering, and contract administration of this change order for Barnes Court. This is an extremely reasonable price that they provided in order to add this change order to their scope of work. Therefore, we believe it's appropriate to bring this to council for final approval so that we could also get the construction underway here in the fall time. It seems how the asphalt company said that they're able to do that. If there's any further questions, I'm happy to answer. And as again, as well as Marcus is here.

Very good. Marcus, anything you'd like to add for the record?

No, just that this is well below sort of the industry average for construction services percentage wise of the contract. And that's again, just because of the savings of rework that doesn't need to be done. The contract's already in place. It's built in our system. The change order is already drafted. It's in your packet. So we just basically need to give the contractor the green light. Um, so there's savings on both the contract side of it and the engineering side.

Great questions for our guests or C staff customer.

The only question I have is the document. The change order that's attached is stamp draft. Is that. I'm always hesitant approving things that say draft on them. Are there significant changes or anything to that document?

Other than the watermark come off it, so it's a draft because of the amount it requires council approval to execute. So we'll take the draft watermark off and get the paperwork into DPS director for approval.

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Additional comments? Discussion on the motion. They're properly moved by GearBoss, seconded by Rice, to acknowledge and to approve. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Those who say nay, say aye. The motion carries unanimously. Marcus, thank you very much. Have a good evening. Appreciate your time. We come to the discussion portion of our agenda. First up is reports from council, which include updates from boards, committees, commissions, and task forces. Again, I'm going to start in just a moment to my left with Councilmember Harmon. But the low-hanging fruit, the most important thing, I think we need consensus on this evening, and Councilmember Dillon and I discussed this earlier today at our transition team, is the interview and hiring process for an interim city manager. So I believe the DAIS members at the DAIS, excuse me, can correct me if I'm wrong, you all received an email last week about doing interviews with our finalists next Wednesday with a 5 p.m. meet-and-greet with interviews kicking off at about 5.30, is that correct? Mm-hmm. Okay, and I believe everybody with the exception of one member can attend. I think it is our plan to record that for posterity and also for future review and reference. We obviously encourage and welcome our residents, business owners, community stakeholders to attend and provide feedback. Council Member Dillon can correct me if I'm wrong, but she will have some sample questions to disseminate and to assign. Is that correct?

Correct.

Okay, and I would ask any member of the hiring community If you had some notes or material that you think would be particularly advantageous for the rest of us as we contemplate the decision, I would encourage you to disseminate those. And I'm assuming we'll also get copies of the resume in advance of our session on the 23rd. Is that correct? Yes. Am I missing anything there, Councilmember Dillon?

No, that's where we stand right now is that we will start at 5 0 PM and because it's not up against another meeting, we do have a timeline in mind for how they will run. But because we're not up against another meeting, we do have a little bit of flexibility to that in that. I know we're waiting on you and Mr to return.

Well, actually, yeah, that's been rectified and resolved. So we eliminated one of our stops on our trip next week to Holland to view the Felton State as we benchmark and compare with the Curtis Mansion. So we should be back in plenty of time.

Yes. I will ask of Council, you will be getting some draft questions. We've already asked initial questions. We are not providing scores or responses to those questions. We don't want to create any sort of bias. But if there are specific questions in which you think would be appropriate to ask, please forward them. To the hiring committee, we will send out what we think are suggested questions. It will it will not be a full interview. It will just be, like I said, very select questions for this process.

And in a desire to keep this process moving forward so we can have somebody in place by the month of October, the earliest of November at the very latest, Councilmember Dillon and I chatted today about potentially having a special meeting that following week to consider an employment contract or actually to extend a conditional employment offer, excuse me, in which an employment contract could be negotiated and a background in drug screening would be conducted. Again, the interviews, the public interviews next Wednesday, we will not be making or developing consensus or making a decision or developing consensus at the subsequent, at the end of those sessions. Want to give council members ample time to consider their options and do additional research if it's if it's warranted. So council member Dylan, correct me if I'm wrong, but we were going to propose to the group. Maybe a special meeting. It could be very brief on the 28th.

Yes, we talked about that. And so we were looking to see availability. That would be a Monday, the 28th. For a special meeting 6 o'clock to decide. I mean, that would be fine. Whatever the consensus is of the group if there's availability. Otherwise we would roll to October 5th, which is another week out from that date. We're just looking to kind of keep things in motion right now. At this point.

We already have a council meeting that day on the 5th.

No, that's why I'm saying it would roll to that council meeting.

Let me start at the end with Harmont. Assuming you're good with everything for next Wednesday, would you be good if we scheduled a special council meeting to consider a conditional employment offer on the 28th?

Um, come back to me.

Okay. Mayor for Tim Rice. Yeah. Uh, six, a preferable six, seven. You mean, I like earlier, but okay. It doesn't matter. Okay. Council member Gearbaugh.

Yes. Anytime.

Okay. Uh, you're already good. I think council member Delarco. Okay.

Council member Halsh. Um, actually a couple of things. Number one, I'd originally let Elle know that on the 23rd, That I couldn't be there, but I was able to move stuff around, but I will be about 15 minutes late to that meet and greet portion of of the interviews. Um, and then the 28th is fine as long as long as it's closer to 6. right? Well, let's do 6 o'clock then.

I'm better with 6 counts. Okay, let's do 6 then we could be out in less than an hour. Theoretically less than 15 minutes. If there's clear consensus, just like to update.

The council also, and I don't know the interview team got or saw the email. There was 1 that dropped out today. So we have 2 candidates finalists.

Very good. Okay. So special meeting at 6 PM on the 28th, and we will convene at 5 o'clock next Wednesday for a meet and greet and then kick the interview off. I think mayor or excuse me council member Dylan indicated around 530. is that right?

Yes.

Okay, excellent. Yeah, Council Member Hollister, if you're a little late to the meet and greet, not a problem. Okay? And if anybody has a conflict and ends up not being able to attend, like I said, we will record the sessions for future reference. Let's transition now to council reports, including updates from boards, committees, commissions, and task forces. Council Member Harmout?

Yes, the Historic District Commission met on Thursday, and we were able to move forward with a solution with the homeowner. Just a... Special service announcement. If you live in a historic district, please make sure if you're doing any work on your house to review it with the historic district commission prior to proceeding. Thank you.

Mayor Patem Rice?

I haven't had any committee meetings lately.

Council Member Gearbaugh?

Just an update on Planning Commission. We were able to do the final site plan for the commercial portion of Lot 28, which is on Michigan Avenue. They're hopefully moving forward with that soon, but there were no real concerns or issues with that. We did talk a little bit about the residential development that will be coming forward with their acquisition of a portion of Bank Services Lot in the back on Bemis Road. Don't know when that's going to happen. Mr. Atkin, could you?

Yeah, they're still working through the brownfield on that to get the housing tough. It's going to be all rental and camera with the exact percentage to qualify for the percentage of those will be living wage affordable and.

I don't remember the design.

I think there's going to be some townhouse style.

They're all going to be rentals and recommending one, two-bedroom apartments and then some townhouses, I believe. But the majority will be that type of housing, which will be good. And then also, we will be seeing in the next meeting, I think on the next Monday, related special use approval for the Volleyball Academy related to they wanting to use the facility for... tournaments and so forth and they don't have the authorization because of parking and so forth so there'll be some accommodations for that but council will have the chance to review that and I just want to let everyone know that this Saturday we're going to have story time at the farm starting at 11 a.m. at the library. Comes out and reads a book and we invite all the young individuals of our community to come out for that. Then we also have an open house from 11 until 3 o'clock related to just being open the farm. And then October 4th, harvest time. I just want to give an early warning for that.

Not warning.

update coming out on that Sunday between 12 and 3 o'clock to enjoy the rest of the farm and just a little bit of the fall festival time.

Very good. Now, of course, this upcoming weekend is Oktoberfest on Friday night and all day Saturday. It is our signature fall event, so we hope that you'll come to downtown Salina and enjoy the festivities. It's a wonderful event. We congratulate and thank Main Street and all the volunteers for executing such a phenomenal event on an annual basis. I do have one item that came up today, and this is for Council's benefit, but primarily for Councilmember Gierbaugh and Del Orco and ultimately Lori Champion, our other liaison to the Fire Board. I was contacted today by our former colleague Chuck Lesch, who's kind of spearheading public engagement vis-a-vis the fire millage. And he would like to see our Fire Board representatives and the Chief do a presentation before City Council. at one of our upcoming meetings. Obviously, we cannot expressly state to either vote in favor or against, but simply provide objective information about the benefits and potential ramifications of this fire millage. So based on our discussion, he was going to be in touch with each of you, but wanted to see about doing it at our first meeting in October. We obviously have an update from risk mitigation at our next meeting. The only challenge with doing it in October, I don't have any objection, but our informal policy is no more than... well, we'd really like to limit it to one formal presentation if it's comprehensive and substantive. And as you'll recall, we had asked the Rec Center Advisory Board to provide an update on October 5th. So I guess I'm looking for a consensus. One, I'm assuming there's no objection to providing the community more information about the upcoming fire millage that's being recommended by the authority. But two, if we wanted to keep two presentations on the 5th, or whether we would like to bump the Rec Center to the subsequent meeting in October. Any thoughts on that? Let me defer first to our fire board representatives, Mr. Gearbon, Mr. Delarco.

I guess it's kind of news to me. I'm sorry. I'm thinking that we had a group that's actually developing, which Chuck does lead, that would be providing that presentation because, as you said, our conflict of how we are promoting for the millage, we have to stay very neutral and only provide information. So I hope it will be a short, brief one. I'm waiting to see what kind of information is coming from them. So I would say it should not be that long unless there's a lot of questions.

Mr. Del Arco? Given the time sensitivity of the matter, I think because of the millage requests and the upcoming ballot initiative, I think the fire board issue should take precedence over the rec center implementation.

So you would prefer to see the rec center then report at the subsequent meeting in October?

I would not to diminish the importance of the rec center implementation task force, but this is a critical issue for our community. I don't want to have it be squeezed in and then not have enough time.

Well, it is. It is obviously much more time sensitive because balance watch you hit the mailboxes this Saturday. I believe next week next week you think a little bit later. Okay.

So there are some concerns related to what the city council may do with related to its tax tax that it currently assesses and what could be a tax increase in tax shift related to the village. So.

I have no doubt we can put together a brief but substantive presentation for October 5th. I guess the question is, do you want to do both the rec center and fire on October 5th, or do you want to move the rec center to the subsequent meeting, which I think is the... Just for clarification, we also have a closed session that night, correct?

On October 5th. Is that the following... No, it's the following week.

We have a special meeting on the 12th. So we could move the rec center to the 19th. What's your thoughts on that? Rice says good. Gearbox is good. Harmont's good with that. Good with that. Councilmember Hulse, obviously you're the main liaison to the rec center advisory board. I think they would probably appreciate an additional two weeks to finalize their report. Councilmember Dillon, you're good with that?

Yeah, just sort of understanding and I think this would be a really great example of how I'm hoping that we can use diligent in a More proactive manner and be able to see what the agendas look like more than beyond just the presentations. Because if we've got heavy agendas that are going to require a lot of discussion, I think that's 1 thing to keep in mind too. But I think it's important to have some information from the rec center and understanding again. Hopefully, by then we'll have a little bit more information as I know we're going to talk about next, which are these pledge.

Okay, very good. I can reach out to sunshine and lead the chairperson shade tomorrow. Let them know that the rec center report will be provided at the subsequent meeting. Okay. Very good. Council member Dylan. Any reports from council updates from boards, committees, commissions or task forces.

Just a couple of things zoning board of appeals. We did not have anything brought before us. So we have not met cable commission. We'll meet tomorrow. We do have a pretty full agenda. There's some equipment that schools need. There's equipment that the city needs some enhancements for this room. So we're kind of looking at bringing some of that forward and hopefully finalizing some plans for purchases. The, um, the hiring committee, we talked about sort of the details of it, but the, on the backside, I just wanted to say, thank you to the hiring committee group to especially to council members are mountain and to acting city manager. Because what we've really been very systematic in our process, and we've, we've really kind of honed in on making on our decision making matrix. And so I feel very comfortable at the place that we're at right now with the candidates that we are at. So just kudos to them looking forward to bringing it forward and moving into the next phase. So, and then just quickly the transition committee. Meet weekly we meet every Monday We met this morning and there was a large matrix I think that all will require that remember excuse me from when mr. Swallow left Acting city manager is working through that a lot of it There's definitely been a lot of progress made by department heads. So there should be an updated version coming out soon to that

Yeah, it was disseminated and asked to have it back by this Friday. So hopefully in Friday communication will be great.

I do want to mention to the body, though, that if there are items that. You can recall that maybe haven't come to fruition that you're like, well, whatever happened to this, please drop an email to us so that we know to add it to the matrix that there's some follow up because there's definitely holes. Where we're not sure if things are going to get email accounts and things like that. So we want to make sure that all of our issues are being, um, accounted for.

Very good customer. Delarco any updates from boards committees, commissions or task forces.

Yeah. Um, the Davenport Curtis working group met on September the ninth. I want to talk briefly about the success of the barbecue. I spoke with the chair of the fundraising subcommittee, Molly Coy, this morning just to provide some information. Sponsorships for the event brought in $58,000. We still need to back out our expenses on that. Main Street's tied up with Oktoberfest right now, so that information will be forthcoming. Alcohol sales, ticket sales, did well and I think we pulled in about $1,100 and the silent auction. The event was well attended. There were about 500 guests in attendance according to Molly's personal count. And I also want to thank all the people that came together on the working group and in the community to pull together to make this happen. It was really driven mainly by the volunteers and even the people on the Celine Fiddler's pitched in to help set up the stage. We couldn't have done it without the volunteer effort. So I want to thank everyone that participated in that. An important initiative moving forward in the working group is we will be convening another retreat with Dana Wong on September 26 here in the chambers at 8.30 a.m. to review the data we've collected on the visits to other historic properties in other areas of the state and elsewhere. So we'll look forward to that retreat coming up soon.

Very good, and it indeed was a great event on Labor Day. Weather was gorgeous, and it was a very nice time on the grounds. Again, congratulations to everybody who helped to organize and administer such a quality event. Thanks to everybody who attended. Look forward to doing it again next year. Councilmember Halsh, any updates from boards, committees, commissions, or task forces?

Yeah, a few, first starting with the Rec Center implementation team. We met this past Tuesday to dive more into our charter. I think we are all pretty satisfied with what that charter reads and kind of some of the Scope responsibilities and whatnot of of, I guess what we're moving to the advisory committee. 1 of the things that the public can look forward to moving forward is more community engagement from that group specifically around what purpose the. serves not just for the community but also as sort of an advisory group to the rec center and then also just engaging the community through surveys through focus groups on What they want to see from the rec center Also, you know with the outstanding financial pledges kind of getting community input and feedback and into uh the projects that the committee has identified as the most critical to enhancing membership experience um financial sustainability so definitely be on the lookout for more information regarding that um i have not had a chance well actually this week will be the first youth council meeting of the year, which I'm very excited about. There are still five seats open on that council. So if you are interested or you know someone who is interested, reach out to myself, Parks and Rec Director Lambert, Each of us can get you the application. But yeah, we're looking for five more seats. And I think one of the discussions that we've talked about is kind of opening that age range to eighth graders and up. So again, if you are interested, please reach out to myself or Director Lambert. And then finally, the Arts and Culture Committee has been on a little bit of a break since last week. Chats at the mansion. So this week is our first meeting since then. So I look forward to that.

Great. And then Council Member Halsh, you spoke briefly about this at our special council meeting where we considered a change order for the wastewater treatment plant. Was there anything you wanted to follow up on regarding rec center financial pledges?

Um, I would so I know that there was a meeting. I haven't had a chance to connect with, uh, you may or mall, uh. Since I missed the last meeting, um, as far as I know. There hasn't been too much of a change, so I'll leave that.

I think we will have. However, I do think we'll have something tangible to share when the rec center advisory board provides council an additional update in the community. Additional update at that 2nd meeting in October. Yes. Very good. Then we're going to move on to 7.3, which is tree dedication program. And this is Council Member Harmon. If you want to, is it more convenient for you to do your presentation there? Would you prefer to do it from the podium? I can do it. Totally your preference.

We have a presentation up. My presentation up.

I think it was just up and then maybe it's rebooting. Sorry about that.

Okay, before we get going, we are looking to have you guys approve the concept in an estimated budget and we'll, we'll fill in the details later, but just to set the expectation.

It's up on the screen here.

I've been advised. I have 5 minutes, so I will make it brief. I will go with the shorter version of my speech. Celine's known for its rich history, but a real legacy is the people who build and protected through decades of volunteer service. Our volunteers, commissioners and committee members have given countless hours year after year shaping our parks. our decisions, and our community spirit. This program is about honoring them, the individuals who have quietly strengthened Saline through commitment, service, and heart. Next slide. Each year we receive between 10 and 12 donated trees from we reserve just 4 to 5 of them. We can create living tributes to volunteers and commissioners who have dedicated over 20 plus years to Celine and importantly, this creates no additional burden on staff. So. We are already planning these trees were planning, locating them. So this is just to go along with activity that's already being done. So trees tree planning already happens and adding a small plaque during that is a standard work. We'll make make it easy and will be manageable with, of course, park and rec and input slide. 3 please. So tree recognition is a proven and beloved model across Michigan. Our process keeps things simple. We're gonna have brief nomination window, a quick verification process, and then final approval through council. This keeps the focus where it belongs, celebrating volunteer leadership without creating new administrative work. And you can see, too, that this is already enacted in different communities. And some of the communities that I wanted to point out, one of which is also in practice over at Toyota, they have a cherry blossom tree dedication over there. And so this is a way that we can have a living dedication of the trees for folks in our community that have served. So next slide, please. So this is just a rendition, again, nothing in stone. We can work together in this, but each recognition tree receives a small, ideally a small brown style plaque. It's consistent, modest, durable, and staff friendly. Installation is gonna align with the fall and spring planning cycles. And again, we work with the groups to make sure no additional maintenance or no extra complexity. So, this we're looking at an estimated budget to begin with for this pilot program of 1250 dollars and we would again work to I know we have 1 of the members of our community. I've depicted on this since we've. We've dedicated today, acknowledging her service. So, Cheryl half would be 1 of the proposed recipients. So that would be an example of somebody that would receive this honor. So, next slide please. Okay. So tonight I'm asking for your support to approve the tree dedication recognition program. This would reserve by reserving four to five dedicated trees annually for volunteer and commissioner recognition. Approve the modest pilot budget as outlined. Allow staff to finalize locations and criteria. This is a yes vote and tells every volunteer commissioner and committee member that Selene sees them. values them and honors the legacy they built. These trees will grow for decades and every plaque will quietly say, here stands someone who gave themselves to Saline. Here stands service that deserves to be remembered. Thank you.

Excellent presentation. Let me kick it off, and then we'll see what consensus we have this evening. No, no, no, you can return to the desk. That's fine. Council Member Harmont was gracious enough to meet with me, I think, a couple times now to share this PowerPoint maybe a few weeks ago over coffee at Kerrigan's, and I think this is an excellent idea. I think it is a great way to honor our long-serving Board, Commission, Committee, and Task Force members. So, conceptually, I support this, my recommendation, and I would defer to mayor pro, Tim rice on this and she's liaison to parks. I'd like to see this added as an enumerated discussion item at an upcoming parks commission meeting. Hopefully that that can occur. I think you have a meeting tomorrow. That's probably too tight of a turnaround. But I think it would be great if Council Member Harmock could attend your subsequent meeting in October and discuss this and get some feedback. You've got nearly a working majority of park commissioners here today, two in the back and one to our right. So it's great that they were able to preview this. My only initial concern was the placement of the plaque and making sure that it's placed somewhere that's not only visible, but I don't want it to be easily ruined or destroyed by routine park maintenance. I'm thinking specifically of large commercial mowers. So that's one area where I'd like some insight from the Parks Commission. And there's maybe other opinions that they would like to offer. But again, I'm strongly in support of this. I think it's a great way to recognize and to honor our longstanding board commission, committee and task force members. And I would welcome some additional feedback from parks. Let me start with you, Mayor Pretemperice. Anything you would like to add?

Yeah, I think having this conversation with Parks Commission is perfect. I think we would have the same conversation about placement, things like that. I understand you've probably already talked to the Parks and Rec Director.

I just want to kind of back up a minute. So, we're really just looking to approve the concept and then we would, of course, work with the Parks and Rec when I have provided the presentation to both Council member rice and as well as the parks and rec department, we will, of course, work with them to find the perfect placement. That will be the most optimal for both as well as the parks and rec. What we're really looking to do is to move forward with the concept and the budget.

So, if there's consensus, you want a motion tonight to approve the concept and to allocate the initial 1250 dollars in the existing fiscal year. Okay. Again, I defer to council member. I say anything you'd like to add.

Um, I would like to see this go in front of parks commission first. I have no doubt that parks commission will think this is wonderful. I just think when we talk about, um, you know, wanting to recognize that people are on commissions, if we make decisions without the input of said commissions that it would, I mean, that's not really impacting the commission. They just, you know, I think my, the parks commissioners would like to see this first, but I have no doubt that they'll, um. Give it a huge thumbs up and we'll move forward.

Was there timing with regards to the trees that we have? I thought there was some some time constraints with with regards to the trees that we do have already scheduled to be planted to be able to want to get ahead of that with the dedication trees will be planted till spring.

Oh, well, you got plenty of time. Go ahead customer. You have any thoughts on this?

Yeah, I think this is a good idea. We already know that there's an attempt or attempt or plan had been done by the department actually for memorial trees, but they were being purchased. And I don't know how successful that is. I think this would be a great opportunity to put trees in other location. I wouldn't necessarily limited to the parks. I think that we have other city facilities, the cemetery, city hall, some other areas that could benefit from additional trees because, as you know, we've lost trees out in the front here, and I think that would be beneficial. I believe, is this the money that we, every year, that we set aside a certain dollar amount that matches the DTE grant? I'm just trying to make sure we already have.

I think essentially, yes.

So we already have the money in the budget, so we would really just be dedicating the trees, I believe.

Unless we wanted to, obviously, I think it would be appropriate, maybe not as a budget amendment, but part of the normal budget processes to consider upping the amount that we set aside annually for trees. Definitely. Because noting, of course, a point you made in the past, which is a good 1, which is we've lost so many trees over the past 2 decades.

And I think that's been one of our goals was to actually add that kind of money to our budget, and it was one of the things I think at times had been reduced. So whatever we can do to increase the coverage over our city and help address, I'm going to say it, climate change and other issues, that's helpful.

Can I jump back, Council Member, you're about to a point that Mayor Pro Tem Rice made. Are you amenable to entertaining a motion this evening, or would you prefer to defer first to Parks Commission and staff and have them report back?

Defer to them because I think having their input and understanding what the process is that we currently do and what this could mean should be balanced by them.

We can enhance the process. We already have with this.

I just want to ask another question. So. The trees that are planted by DPW, that are donated by DPW, those don't just go into the parks, the ones that are designated. We have some of them that are replacement that need to be replacing, and then there's other ones that get placed around the city. This would not necessarily have to be exclusive. And again, we're kind of getting into the schematics of...

Looking for more of an overall approval of the concept and from my perspective, I'd like to see those kind of dedicated trees in the specific areas, not just the city street tree.

So, I think that's a good idea for that much. Go ahead.

Thank you. So, just for clarification, who is the way that you're talking about? Because I wasn't sure I thought this was coming out of the parts commission or environmental commission. So this is your initiative. This is your initiative. And you're using it from the trees that we get donated. I want to be very clear about which trees we're referring to, because also has a different program that if you sign up, you know, we'll donate more trees to the city and every year we get between 10 and 12.

trees that are dedicated and donated by DTE and I'm saying to reserve a portion of those trees that we already are getting and we're already planning to actually designate those as recognition to the folks in their community that have volunteered and maybe we can expand that out past the volunteering for the commissions and YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSIONS COULD ALSO EXPAND TO, YOU KNOW, FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN ELECTED OFFICIALS BEYOND THAT, BUT WE CAN LOOK FIRST, I THINK WE SHOULD PRIORITIZE THE VOLUNTEERS.

You're correct them is still and that's where those trees come from. That comes from that program.

Right? And so I just want to be careful. The other piece to this is, is there going to be an asterisk with this policy with this program that says so long as DTE provides the trees otherwise we would need to start funding tree purchases also and kind of understanding because. I love the idea and I mean, I'm like, everybody else. I'm happy that we could the more trees we can plant. We've got trees that are beyond their useful life that need to be replaced and I don't want to see those come down until we have a plan to put new ones up. i also want to be very mindful that i think it could be a very big slap in the face to somebody to get some puny little tree that like if when you start looking at some of the trees that have been planted as replacement trees so i'd like to see some standards as to what it is and that sort of thing and understanding what the program is i mean in concept i think it's a really good idea um When we start getting to the cost, I mean, I'm not sure where you came up with the dollar amount.

I came up with the dollar amount of about between 250 and 350 for the plaque. And we can, you know, depending on how many, if that's the actual amount, then if it's less than that, then we can make more. If it's more than that, then we don't dedicate less. So then we need a budget for the plaques.

We need a budget for the plaques.

We're already planning these trees. We're just, the point about this is that we're dedicating the trees that are already being planted.

I'm just clarifying because on the thing it says set a preliminary annual planning budget of $1,250 for plaques and installation. So I'm just trying to understand, are we... Back filling costs for to do this.

Let me I think I think I didn't know where this train is headed, which is good. Um, you sound like you're like, council member gear bought and myself supportive of it in concept. Would you also like to see it go to park commission staff or some additional insight?

I would and I mean I think that that would be because I think this would be a great thing to fold into our we've got a bigger overarching program where you can buy a bench you can buy a tree or there's part of this dedication I feel like all of that falls under the same kind of umbrella and my recommendation when I

when we show this to parks would be to just put it into our annual parks budget, not the DPW parks budget, but the parks commission budget per year, because it's, you know, we have very small budgets and it's just very easy for us to maintain it. And like we do with our green thumb plaques, we now buy plaques for green thumb. So it would be something that we could easily maintain the budget for that.

No, I think that, yeah, I absolutely I applaud you for bringing this forward. I think it's a great concept and it's something that I think is, you know, could really start a movement in this community. Again, like I said, even beyond the trees that are donated to the to the city and understanding, but then also kind of making sure that we understand. Who gets recognized what that criteria looks like in that process and again going back to parks commission they sort of have a process to some degree because of the green thumb that might help bring that along.

I do foresee that this should be something that the city council votes on who is going to be. Yes.

Oh, absolutely. Mr. Del Arco to try to wrap this up. I need to hear from you and council member Hall. It seems like there's consensus from four of us to have parks and staff review this and then subsequently take action. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I support that movement. Councilmember Harmon, I want to thank you for putting this presentation together. I firmly support this initiative. As a former member of the Environmental Commission, I think this is a good way to recognize the people in our community that have volunteered for that length of time and have their legacy live on.

Councilmember Halsh? I agree with the consensus. I think it's awesome. I love it. I do like the idea of maybe seeing how we can bring it under sort of the umbrella of all the ways that we recognize our citizens. But as a concept pilot, I absolutely love it and support it.

Very good. Mayor Pro Tem Rice, can you work with your Parks Commission colleagues, staff and Council Member Harmont to make sure that this is scheduled for a robust discussion at your October meeting or at a meeting of Council Member Harmont's convenience? And then between the two of you, hopefully you can report back in the next 30 to 60 days and we can take the necessary actions to approve and codify the approach. Okay, very good. Thank you again, Council Member Hama. It's an excellent PowerPoint, and we appreciate the suggestion. It's always great to be able to recognize our outstanding community volunteers. Our last item, again, just for discussion, it will likely come back for debate and approval, is a revised background check policy. Who would like to begin? Would acting city manager, do you want to kick this off or would you want me to defer to Mayor Pro Tem Rice, who is the chair of the policy committee, before I hear from council members Dillon and Hulch, who are also members of the subcommittee?

I would rather defer. I was only involved in one meeting.

Okay. Can I start with you, Mayor Pro Tem Rice? And again, this is just to bring council up to speed, and I'm assuming your recommendation would be to bring this back at a subsequent meeting for more debate and possible adoption.

Yeah, so at Council's request, the Policy Committee met three times to discuss creating a background check policy. Our initial meeting, where we really discussed sort of how we would manage a policy as such, HR Director Goetschman provided us with some background documents from previous sort of attempts to get this off the ground. We found a kind of mock decision matrix online and then we took that and went through it thoroughly at the second meeting and made updates that were trying to fill the gap of subjectivity versus just sort of blanket approval or decision making. The police chief has reviewed that and made comment. Unfortunately, I was not at the final meeting where I think just those final adjustments were agreed upon. So one of my colleagues can fill that gap in. But I believe that this would meet the request that this committee was charged with and it should be in my opinion ready to present to council for a decision good let me first start with councilmember Dillon and then defer to councilmember Halsh as members of the policy subcommittee is there anything you'd like to add yeah we have a very robust discussions regarding this policy and the

what we're trying to get at, what the purpose is. One of the big issues that I want to make sure is whatever policy we adopt and whatever procedure we have, that there is a clear pathway because this information should not be shared with others. Um, it needs to there will have to be a process in place and we kind of worked through that. We did a mock of how this will work. Um, and there is some discussion of that in. The background check policy, but just to make sure that only certain people are going to have access to information on it. Um, we did discuss the importance of it and understanding. Um, the people that are serving our community while we, we, well, we admire all that want to be a part of it. 1st, and foremost, the city needs to has a responsibility to make sure that all members of our community, our staff are safe. And so ensuring that the people that are on committees are. are not going to cause harm to anyone based on past practices, what's happened with them in their lives, decisions that have been made. This was not something we took lightly by any means. We really went back and forth about it. We went through this with our police department. We went through it with our legal department. field, excuse me, our legal persons and made sure that what we're asking for matches and whether we're the only community to do that is not really of issue to me. This is an issue that's been brought to our attention and so the city's choosing to address it.

Thank you. Council Member Halsh, anything you'd like to add?

Yes. First, I do want to echo what my colleague Dylan has just said in that this wasn't an easy conversation. This wasn't any type of, you know, let's make it harder for people to participate. This was a situation in which we wanted to keep this process fair. We talked about people who, you know, have been discriminated against racially within the justice system. We talked about what do we do when people have prior marijuana charges that are legal now. Like, we definitely talked about equity. There will never be a time that I sit at a table in my capacity in this seat and not think about equity, especially racial equity. And that kind of leads me to the next point, in that I think there needs to be a full and transparent accounting of what led to this policy. As a member of both this council and the policy committee, I'm not going to make policy in a vacuum. And I feel that the current narrative surrounding this policy and the impetus for it is inaccurate, and it's not fair to the citizens of this city, and it's not fair to the members of this council to allow misinformation in you and those misdirection and rumors to diminish the work that went into this policy and this change. And I look forward to correcting the record and the narrative when this policy comes forward for a vote.

Very good. I assume then, I'm going to put Rice, Dillon, and Halsh on the spot, you believe we're in a good place and that this policy is ready and should be considered, debated, and potentially adopted by City Council. Ideally, at our next meeting, when would you like to see this slated for debate and consideration?

I want to change that statement to be that I believe that we have done the best job that we can do to create a policy that fulfills the request of council. I, however, as a member of this council, do not agree that it needs to move forward. So I defer to my other two policy committee colleagues.

Okay. Ms. Dillon, what are your thoughts?

Um, yes, it's been, um, it's been, it's been vetted through the policy committee and it is now being given to this body to to deliberate. And there can be conversations about it as to what we want to have done. Does this meet the threshold of what this body wanted from from the policy committee? That's what we're at that point right now of understanding. Is this what you task that committee with? And do you want to see this? Do you want to see a different version of it? That's what we're at right now is understanding that. Okay.

Council Member Halsh? Absolutely. Okay. I should move forward. Well, then if there's not objection, let me get your comments and questions. And again, we don't need to do a full deep dive into this policy tonight or a substantive debate. There will be time for that. If there is not objection, then I'm going to... Councilmember Del Orco, Acting City Manager and I will review a draft agenda on Wednesday. This will be included as an enumerated new business item. In the interim, if you review the document, you see opportunities for changes and improvement, please let staff know or a member of the policy committee. Again, Council can take whatever action they deem appropriate in a week's time, whether that's to approve with modifications or defer to a later date. Councilmember Harmon, did you have any additional questions or thoughts?

I'll reserve them to our input.

Okay. Mr. DeLarco?

I'm going to echo Councilmember Rice's comments. I am not in a position to support this policy and I can reserve my comments to when it appears before the Council for a board or we can have that discussion now. Okay. Councilmember Gearbaugh?

I appreciate the work that's been done on this. I support this. As you know, I raised a concern when we first initially appointed a minor to the arts and culture that we need to make sure that background checks are the most accurate way of trying to address any concerns. As we look at a world of Me Too, Epstein files, other presidential concerns, we need to be above board in approach. And I think our community as most large organizations and even the schools conduct background checks to make sure that if in the event that there's a minor or anybody involved, which we have a number of committees and groups in which minors do attend and are involved, we need to do the utmost to protect those and that has been my goal for 30 years while i've been serving this city and i will continue to do that and try to protect our genuine individuals we need a policy like this i think what we do need to do is go back and actually look at our bylaws and some of our committees to allow the council the ability to address whether you can add or remove an appointment without cause. And I think that's a way that we can also address this concern about background checks. But at this point in time, I appreciate your work. And thank you, Ms. Dillon and Mr. Halsh, as making this award and your appointments.

Thank you. So we will make sure this is added as an enumerated action item under new business at our subsequent council meeting. We're going to have a thoughtful and substantive debate at that time. And again, council, if the majority wants to defer action, that's their prerogative. If they want to adopt in its totality, that's fine. If we want to make modifications or go back to the drawing board, those are options as well. Any final comments before I wrap this up? Council Member Dillon.

I just wanted to kind of touch back one of the other there were three legs to the stool on this. And as we discussed this, there was another aspect to when people are put on committees, they the city needs to have a mechanism for which they can be removed. And so what has been discussed is that all bylaws for all committees should contain a clause in which the city council has the right to remove somebody with or without clause. And so that is something. But that's going to be a bit of a heavy lift because we have several committees with different bylaws. And to get in and start amending all of those, we do have an opportunity to do a blanket amendment. Um, motion to where we can just say that all all bylaws will be. Will be amended to include statement. Um, and so that's something I would like to add to that discussion.

I think that's good. And to Mr. Gierbaugh's point, to your point, and to others, I think that that change needs to be made to our existing board, committee, commission, and task force bylaws. This body appoints and can reject appointments, and they should have the ability to remove members of boards, committees, commissions, and task force if they're not performing at an optimal level or not contributing substantively. So, I hope everybody could agree with that.

Yes. And that was discussed a policy that we'll have. We'll come back. We wanted to get this out of the way, because that was what everybody wanted. And then we'll come back. In our next policy meeting and start working on those kind of like, top 10 bylaws that every committee and commission has to have, and then they can adjust from there. But those supersede everything.

Very good. Alright, we will revisit this issue in a week's time. If there's nothing further to be brought up at the discussion portion of tonight's agenda, we move to the second public comment period. Under the Open Meetings Act, any person may come forward and ask a comment or question. Comments will be limited again to three minutes per person. Those wishing to speak are requested but not required to state their name and address for the record. Please note, City Council will not be answering questions during this final public comment period. Are there any citizen comments? Again, you'll have three minutes once you begin. You can set that down if you like it.

Okay. Longmore, 325 North Louis street. I want to talk about the background check. I was opposed to this when it 1st. Came up a couple of 5 years ago or whatever it was. I agree with what said earlier today. It just, I mean, you're discouraging people. If you're thinking about, you know, I want to be on Parks Commission, or I want to be on the LDFA, whoever would want to do that. I'm not going to. Oh, but I'm going to get a background check, and maybe I have something. Maybe I have a DUI from two years ago. I'm not proud of it, but I might get swamped up. And I appreciate the work that went into this. The matrix, I think, couldn't have been fun to put that thing together. But I just think you just get rid of it. We don't have any sort of checks like that for council members, do we? No. So why are we putting checks like that on Parks Commission members and Planning Commission members and CBA members? Thank you.

Thank you for your comments. Appreciate that. Any additional citizen comments this evening? You'll have three minutes once you begin.

I was waiting until the second comment period because I was hoping you would talk about this during the meeting is that you probably know that EGLE has presented that they're going to have a public hearing regarding the pollutant discharged. Uh, and I know that you sent a, uh, a letter, um. To them, but in this public meeting, I would hope that the city of Celine itself would present something at that public meeting and, uh, voice the concerns of your constituents. That is something really very concerning to me and to a lot of your constituents and to you as the city council and the mayor, as you did presented in your letter. The second issue that I had is more of a question that is very secondary but has been concerning to me for a while. I know that you might have been asked, but I have not seen it written or voiced that I would like to know if any of you, any of the council, the mayor's employees or contractors of the city have signed nondisclosure agreements with any of the IT companies. And, uh, and just, I haven't seen that in public anywhere. So I just would like to it would be wonderful to be able to, um, to know that. And that's all. Thank you.

Thank you. Any additional citizen comments? Let me defer to the city clerk with any written comments provided in advance of tonight's meeting, which the individual wanted the remarks right at this time. Well, and two things to follow up on the lady's comments. I think having the acting city manager, interim city manager, participate in that EGLE open house, which is virtual, to confirm the points that were expressed in our letter would be wise.

They did fail to notify council they got this Friday morning, the open or the... Public hearing will be on October 21st, and then if you're unable to attend, public hearing comments can be submitted through the 26th.

Can you tentatively add that to your calendar? And in the event that an interim city manager has started by that date, maybe we can have him or her represent us. But I think simply acknowledging the letter and reinforcing our questions and concerns verbally during what is essentially a public town hall, albeit on a virtual platform, would be wise. And to the petitioner's question, I can't speak for other council members or staff members. I have never signed a non-disclosure agreement in my life, let alone with any Fortune 100 company. So an emphatic no from me. But we appreciate the comments and questions. If there's no additional issues to be brought before Saline City Council this evening, the chair would be delighted to entertain a motion to adjourn at 9.02. Move by gear buzzer. Second? Second. Seconded by Del Orco. All those in favor of adjourning, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, same day. Ayes have it.

Be adjourned. Thank you all.