Common Council - Regular Meeting

Need that. All right,

sir. Hello.

Hey, I like it. All right, it is uh 6:04 and Max is here. So, we will go ahead and call the Monday, March 2nd meeting of the sale planning commission to order. Go ahead and start with roll call. Scott Nail here. Tom Jacobs absent. Chuck Williams here. Greg Zinc present. Telicia Day here. Max Gamble present.

Steve Williams is absent. and I'm Anthony Ciphers. Next on our agenda, this is our first meeting since the first of the year. So, we need to have our election of officers. Um, currently the officers are I is president, Scott is vice president, and Tom is secretary. I'll make a motion to leave him the same for this year. So I was when I went through the packet I did notice though that um Tom was backing Telicia. Yeah. He was asking for

I amend your motion for the president and vice president to remain the same and to nominate Telicia then as secretary. Telicia is secretary. Yes. I'll do that. Okay. I'll second Greg's motion.

So motion made and seconded. All in favor? I. Those opposed. All right. Next on our agenda is the minutes approval from the November 24th meeting. If anyone has any additions or corrections to make I'll make a motion to accept the minutes as written unless somebody's got an objection.

I'll second that motion. Motion made and seconded. All in favor to approve the minutes for the November 24th meeting. I All right. Next on the agendas, we have three months worth of permits to review. November and December of 25 and January of 26. You going to do them each month by the month as evolved?

If it's okay, let's let's try to look at them all together. I know the November and December are together already. make a motion to approve from January or excuse me uh November 1st through January 31st, 2006. I'll second the uh the motion to acknowledge the minutes.

All right. Motion has been made and seconded to acknowledge the permits issued for November and December of 2025 and January of 2026. All in favor? Those opposed. All right. Next on our agenda is public hearing regarding regarding 304 and a half south Mill Street. I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to our attorney initially here.

Yes. So just a little procedural background on this. Um, so this the plan commission in addition to its roles um designated under the city's zoning ordinance also is designated as the hearing body and I'll actually give you the um the verbiage that's used in the um ordinance. Uh so the the hearing authority uh under the city's uh codification of the state unsafe building and unsafe property statute uh which is in chapter 155 of the code of ordinances. Uh the hearing authority is designated to be the plan commission. Um Ronnie is the designated enforcement authority uh as the building inspector. And so this is kind of an in addition to your typical zoning duties uh you have hearing authority under um under this ordinance and statute. So a little background on it. the Indiana legislature um put together this this statute that essentially gives um municipalities the capability to in you know to take action uh with regard to properties that are deemed to uh present some um hazard or threat to safety of the community. Um, and I I can give you a little bit additional background on that as well if needed. But, um, I'll give a little bit more abbreviated version of it. Um, in this circumstance, Ronnie as the enforcement officer determined the property at issue uh to be an unsafe property um, for or due to

the accumulation of excess trash, debris, and hazardous materials on the property. um that's one of the um categories in the statute uh that is ripe for an enforcement and so legislator created legislature created that statute for municipalities to codify by ordinance which the city of Salem did and as I said as such designated Ronnie as the enforcement officer and you as the hearing body. Um there are a variety of different remedies that can be sought when the enforcement officer uh issues an order. Um and depending upon what that remedy is uh if if it's a more one of the more severe remedies, which I know we've dealt with in the past. Um, I know some prior members of the plan commission or there may be new members of the plan commission that haven't dealt with this, but we've had circumstances in which uh, you know, properties were of a condition that they needed to be demolished. That's a very severe remedy. So, it that's that requires a public hearing. In this circumstance where it involves the cleanup of a property, it doesn't require a public hearing, but the property owner has the ability to request a a public hearing before the hearing body, which it has, which the property owner has done in this case. Uh so the effect of that is that Ronnie issued a letter essentially that says that the property owner needs to uh remediate the circumstances at the property and clean it up within 10 days from the date of the order. Um once the hearing is requested, it it essentially stays that. And so tonight you will be hearing um the testimony of the property

owner um as to why they believe that this order shouldn't have been issued or why they believe it's incorrect um and provide whatever evidence uh that they see fit to present to to you. Ronnie will similarly as the enforcement officer um explain to you why he believes that this enforcement is is warranted or necessary. And then you as the hearing body uh will have the opportunity to either affirm the order that was issued uh by Ronnie in which case the property owner will have 10 days to clean the property up. Um, you could also uh overturn the the uh determination of of Ronnie on this issue or you could modify it. Um, in addition to that, you have the discretion to also if you believe that there is a uh a violation or an issue here, um you could impose civil penalties for non-compliance uh with the order assuming you were to affirm it. Um, so that's a little bit of the background on kind of the history of this statute and ordinance, um, and the procedure that we'll be following tonight. Uh, so I believe the first thing that we should do is, and I've I've kind of given a a background, so Ronnie, I don't know, unless you have any input you want to provide as to the basis of the initial notice and order. If you do, I think, you know, come on up and tell them about it. No. Do you have photos or anything?

Electricity at that location. I haven't really experienc

in a separate I mean he he brought up the circumstance of of other people kind of living on the property um in kind of an encampment type fashion um with kind of separate non official dwellings um in the rear of the property. Within the letter that was issued, basically the the letter that Ronnie sent served two purposes. First, there was the the notice and order under the unsafe building unsafe property ordinance. The second component of it, which really we won't address tonight because it's not within the purview of the planning commission, uh, but there was also a zoning violation uh that was noticed as well. Uh, what that was was essentially that this is an R1 district. uh and the the illegal use of the property was the observing it is a homeless encampment the rear of the property uh that was not permitted within the zoning uh district that issue to the extent the property owner wishes to appeal it that's appealable to the board of zoning appeals however I do want to note and this may be helpful for the um uh for the individual who is who would be appealing it, the property owner. The city didn't impose any fines with respect to that. It was essentially just a cease and desist notice that we've observed this illegal land use and you're advised to um cease the illegal land use immediately. Um it it does leave open the possibility to impose fines if a continuing violation uh is observed. Um but it's it's essentially a a letter that says we believe you're in violation, cease the violation. Um if so if they don't believe there is a violation or if they believe that you know if they believe that the use has been miscatategorized

or if there isn't a violation that you know that should be addressed with the board of zoning appeals. So we can leave that aside for the point and really focus on the condition of the property. Um, and with that, and Ronnie, unless you have anything else to say at this point, we can invite the uh the property owner up to

you can approach the podium and give your name and address for the record and then um present with whatever information you believe would be relevant to the uh to the plan commission. My name is Hert Young. I'm in property owner 304 and a half South Mil Street.

Okay. So, Mr. Young, it seems that the building inspector has identified that on your property there is an accumulation of various items, debris, trash, things of like nature that constitute a violation of the unsafe building ordinance. Are you familiar with what he's referencing when he talks about I'm assuming the back need a little clean up. It's been cleaned up. Okay. So, the notice gate

porch is cleaned up everything. Okay. So, it's your it's your stance then that the violation that Ronnie noticed and advised needed cleaned up has been addressed at this point. He had been Yeah, he he a letter or something. I forget now.

Guess if you don't mind, I'll just ask a question. How recently was the cleanup? It's been probably a month or three weeks or so, something like that. That house has been there 40 years. 1984 was built. I built it.

Is there Is there a reason why there's no electric to it? No, I had to cut off. They tried to way overcharge me and I said, "Forget it. I'm not paying that." Tried $900 one month and then 1,600 the next. I said, "Uh-uh. No way. Ain't happening." That's Duke. It was Where are the extension cords coming from for the electric? There is no electric and there ain't no cords. Where are the extension cords coming from?

We we had to go neighbor to that property that camper you know it's in the backyard.

I don't believe it is now. I don't believe it is now. Still there. camper is. Yeah, but no cord.

That's been cleaned up quite

a few.

So, are there individuals living in your backyard? No. Were there at any point? Not that I know of. Now, Mr. Young, if you know, I I understand there might be a little bit of disagreement whether all the the things have been cleaned up or not. Are are you opposed at all to cleaning up more? No. Okay. No. Because I know I I don't think it's anyone on this board's wish to, you know, take any actions like fines or anything. I don't know that any of us would really we'd rather solve things just by working together. That I think that's everyone's preference. We don't want to have to do anything like that, right?

Um would you be open to the building inspector coming out and maybe identifying helping you identify here what what he needs. What are the things that need to be addressed? Yeah. Does the home have water and sewer? Huh? Does the home have water? It does. Ronnie. Okay. Would you would you be opposed? You said it was okay for Ronnie to come out. Would you be opposed to me coming from the fire department with Ronnie just No. as the fire department a member of the board

to look at things and then I could come back and let the board know. No, I think procedurally. So I I would I would recommend that I would recommend that photographs be brought in that maybe if if we don't believe that we have enough evidence here tonight to make a determination that we table we table this and continue the hearing to the next plan commission meeting subject to you know photographs and other additional information being brought to the plan commission to make its determination. as to whether again to affirm, overturn or modify the order.

Yeah, I don't think there's really enough here, especially the disagreement say, right? Yeah. Yep. I agree. Someone like to make that motion that we go ahead and table this. All right. Motion's been made to table any determination um on 304 and a half South Mil Street until the next plan commission meeting. As long as as long as Mr. Young is okay with us coming out doing the Yes. Inspection. Sure. I'll second it. All right. Motion's been seconded by Greg. All in favor? Those opposed? All right. So, we'll go ahead and Does that mean we just close the public hearing then for now?

So, the public hearing is not closed. It's just there would be a vote on again which we just did would would be to table and continue this hearing to the next item. The hearing is still ongoing. It'll pick up at the next meeting. It won't be renoticed again. It the notice for the public hearing for tonight is the only notice that's required. It's the same public hearing that is just continued to the next meeting. Excellent. Okay. Well, Mr. Young, thank you. That's all we need for now. Just make plans on next month coming, but in the meantime, Ronnie, making sure everything's all right. They'll get Yeah, they'll get with you. And in the meantime, they'll they'll get with you. All right. Thank you, Mr.

So, the order that was issued provides 10 days to clean the property up from the date of the order. And whenever the hearing is requested, it basically stays that until the plan commission makes a determination. If the plan commission were to affirm the the order at the next meeting w to which this has been continued then there would be 10 days from that date that determination to get it cleaned up. Okay. Which I think something you didn't say but is kind of there though is the I the remedy for if it's not complied with has not been Yeah. So

his house isn't going to be torn down. The potential the potential remedy would be for the city to cause it to be cleaned up and then charge that the cost of cleanup back to the property owner. Um so that that would be the remedy. Again, the statute also provides for civil penalties um of up to $5,000 for violations um things that have not been remedied despite an order. Um, so there there's that possibility as well. But for the most part, you know, the the the typical thing in the near term would be if it's not cleaned up within the period of time that's prescribed, the intention of I believe the enforcement authority would be to to cause it to be cleaned up.

So I did I was I was just wanting to make sure there wasn't there wasn't the impression that like the house was going to be seized and demolished if something complied with that's not that's not the case. Are you allowed to have a camper in town? You're allowed to own a camper.

Yeah. But so an accessory dwelling, uh, you know, if we're talking about something to where this isn't just someone who's temporarily parked a camper in their driveway, um, that, you know, say they use for vacationing or things like that. if if someone's actually utilizing it as a as a dwelling, I believe that would be subject to probably a use variance that you would need to get from the board of zoning appeals uh for an accessory dwelling structure. Um I have to look at the ordinance, the zoning ordinance a little bit more um carefully as to that particular issue. But typically, you know, in an R1 zone, it's for a single, you know, a detached single family dwelling. If you bring another accessory structure onto the property, for one, it would have to be a an actual structure, um, not a, you know,

not a camper or some temporary structure like that that someone's actually living in as a permanent residence, that that wouldn't be permitted. There are several of those in town, though. I mean, if there are campers in town where people are living in them full-time as an accessory structure, they're in violation of one of those because he wasn't being taken care of. Yeah, that's that's a violation of the zoning ordinance.

That's what I thought. So, I didn't turn him in because I want to get the person a place to be able to stay before that happens. But I I do know I try to help people that need that. And I know that through going to the warming center, transport back and forth and that type of thing. And and as far as the way the cleanup was at this place, it was bad. It was horrible. Okay. But I've seen several other places in town. I don't know why one was targeted or not, but there are others. That's not one of the only one. Sure.

Now, as far as the fire violations and that type of thing, I'm I'm not familiar with, but anything like that can be taken care of, right? I mean, without electricity, I don't know what else you would be talking about other than the heating system. I mean, it just depends what it is. I mean like you know if there are extension cords being running from different addresses if there's you know if there's you know accessory heat source such as um you know like propane heaters being used inside that that's going to be an issue whether fire code or health issues it just depends what it is just I'm sure could be corrected just depends

well one person I helped get out of the place that's how they were heating this place with a propane heater This gentleman was blind. He didn't even realize what was going on. Wow. That's exceptionally dangerous. Um, something outside the house. I think this is not in regard to the house itself. Correct, Ronnie. This is just the stuff in the yard. that that's the issue. Not the appearance of the house or anything like that. It's it's just the debris accumulation in the yard seems to be the issue.

Oh, I went by there today. Has anyone been by today? You seen how much better it was then? I don't know if you consider that complete, but there's a lot of places that are worse off than that. So, we are after those. Yes, sir. We're willing to definitely help them. We're station. We want to help them because we know 75y old man and that's his home and that's all he's got. So, you know, we want to help him and try to get it cleaned up. So, we're willing to put in the work and try to help clean up around there. And I have members I ride the Christian Motorcyclist Association. I have members that be willing to help along with the church that I go to.

Sounds like between this meeting and next meeting, hopefully here next meeting, then we'll have a a lot of new information to report. So, That's I think the intention of Ronnie going out. Yeah, I would consult with the with the building inspector on that.

Great. Well, everything.

All right, we're gonna we're going to go ahead and continue with the meeting. You guys are welcome to do that, but we're going to go ahead and continue. Um, next on our agenda is new business. Does anyone have any new business? I know Ronnie does not. Thank you. We'll ask him. Ronnie, do you have any new business? Okay. After that we have the old business. Does anyone have any old business?

Just recently purchased another

which Oh, I know which. It's the the one at the dead end. the other one.

Oh, it's fire pulling Scott in the Rex's driveway straight across the road. Is it 303 and a half? 307 block building. It's not You didn't get the block building. It's It's one in the alley behind it. Behind there. Oh, the one back like Okay. The one kind of next to it. Yeah. Well, there's one out there on street. It's a little shotgun house for years. If you pull into Ratch's driveway, you know, record service and you look right at it. Getting ready to pull out of it, you stare right at it. Okay.

It's just little Yeah, like you said, shotgun house that's growed up. this. Yeah. Yeah. This one back here, I think. We own that. The city owns that. The other one, um, that's the one I was thinking of, but it's not that one. Yeah, that the addresses are a little bit interesting. Show where alley's at. right there. Okay. Well, so that house back here in the woods. Oh, this right here. Yeah. What's the number on it? This is 303 and a half.

303. You're right. Owner name. It makes sense. Yeah. We call it the Mexican house a few years ago. Mexicans live there. That's that's how we named the Mexican. Same owner. Yep. Okay. Well, that's unfortunately I think both of those houses are too far gone to really even if someone wanted to. I don't know that you can rehabilitate those. They're both pretty.

Wonderful. Well, I know one uh I don't know if the time or place for it. But I know one thing they said did kind of ring true that there are other properties that are pretty I haven't seen this one, but just from the description, I can imagine what it looks like. I know we dealt with one on was it Malberry Street several years ago that had accumulated a whole bunch of stuff. Elizabeth, wasn't it? Was it on Malberry? Elizabeth, I think, wasn't it? Well, there's the Elizabeth Street one, but then there was the one with the fenced in backyard and the remember that one. It was like a mountain behind the house. We were currently working on one on Eastbury. The backyard

is that the one that's got the camper in the back, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've pulled off seven loads of bear. He says two more are cleaning up. It'll take five. Yeah. We've seen the walking trail. We go behind and that back there where they were staying was absolutely disgusting. We get people call us and say you guys don't don't we do every day. Yeah. We have trucks going places. We don't charge them to use it. It's unbelievable.

The neighbors don't want us. We get new things every day we can't human waste out there. This is a lot worse.

Something needs to be done with years. This has been going on since the early 80s when we dealt with them. They build a structure that doesn't need any codes at all. Yeah. Stairs are illegal in there.

Yeah. The the enforcement on that type of thing is it's difficult because it at the end of the day it typically is going to fall back on the city to foot the bill to to do the clean up. You have to go through the proper administrative channels to do it. And there's really not a legitimate opportunity for recoupment of cost on the back end because there's just not a substantial amount of value there. And and by the time you spend the money to, you know, go chase after those dollars, you're you're in the hole further than if you hadn't pursued that after, you know, to begin with. So, um, it's just a process, but at the end of the day, it's something you have to do.

Yep. You have to do it. So, if we didn't clean up what we cleaned up. The city does a a valuable service to people at no charge. We they haul truck after truckload of junk out of town for people. You know, all you got to do is send it out to the curb and they'll haul it away. Say we're not a lot of places do that. No, they don't charge it. See, I have personally utilized those services recently for a washer and a dryer that mysteriously disappeared when I set them on my curb without me having to pay money. That may have been somebody other than the city. That may have been someone other than the city, but we didn't do that. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I'm I'm optimistic that with the tableabling tonight and the communication here and the support that this property owner has that you know I'm optimistic that it'll reach a good resolution before you ultimately have to make a determination at the next meeting. I mean there's rules in place no some people that's their only option they want to well hopefully over the meeting, but I welcome a motion to adjourn. All right.

I have no other business to discuss. I would welcome a motion to adjourn. X.