Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay, we're ready to go. Thank you. Thank you. Are you the person who had to go home earlier today?

Mr. Chairman, we're ready to get started when you are.

okay i'm gonna call this meeting of the city of saginaw's uh planning and zoning commission to order at 6 02 p.m let's do roll call uh vivian anderson place one present benjamin guttery place two peter drolet edith solis Val Visas.

Present.

Durand Sumsaba.

Present.

And Paige Garcia. All right. Now we're gonna go to the audience participation. If anyone would like to speak on any item on the agenda, please feel free. You can come up to the dais at any time. Just introduce yourself and tell us where you're from. You'll also have a opportunity to do so during each agenda item. All right, now I'm gonna go to 1C, approval of the minutes from the August 11th meeting. So did everybody have a chance to take a once over on it? Did you notice anything? If not, I will entertain a motion.

I move we accept the minutes.

Do I have a second?

Second. All right, we're going to vote.

You should all be able to see the voting on your screens, if you could just cast your vote.

All right, and the motion passes. All right, now we're going to go to business. And before I begin, if I can ask staff, would it be okay if we switched the order of the business? Just because I have a feeling 2A is going to take longer than if we have an applicant here. Then that way they don't have to stay for the whole training.

We can if that's y'all's wish.

Does that sound good to everybody? Yeah. Yes. Okay, all right, it's unanimous. Okay, so we're going to go ahead and jump to 2B, consideration and action regarding a specific use permit, SUP, to allow the operation of a convenience store with fuel cells at 501 and 711 North Saginaw Boulevard.

Yes, Mr. Chairman. So this SEP application for a convenience store with fuel cells, as you know, was presented to the commission on our meeting last month. And the commission unanimously voted to table it with a few recommendations for the applicant to update and come back to you guys. Amongst those requested updates were for the applicant to provide a landscape plan that meets the city's landscape ordinance requirements. Provide a plan for re-striping the site, including clearly marked entrances, exits, and parking spots. And incorporate beautification efforts to improve the overall appearance of the property. Amongst those recommendations, we did want to note that while beautification efforts can be a recommendation provided to the applicant, an SUP wouldn't allow the city to regulate building materials or color. of signage or the building itself or hold the applicant accountable to what is shown in these pictures. But for the landscape plan, due to time constraints, the applicant wasn't able to have a landscaping architect develop a landscape plan as outlined and required on our ordinance so for the purposes of this meeting they did present us with an updated concept plan that includes more landscaping details from what was provided before and just fyi through the ceo approval process with the building inspections department they are going to have to present a landscape plan that meets ordinance requirements and that will be staff approved But if you don't have any questions for us at this point, we're good to open the public hearing and have the applicant address any more questions. Sorry, we don't need to open the public hearing again. So if you would like to address the applicant at this point to answer any questions, you can. And we also included on the updated exhibit pictures of the updated signage on site. It will be different from the initial mock-ups that were turned in with their original application. Again, this is an existing use or business, and they're requiring the SUV. Okay.

All right, thank you for that. So, yeah, so I did notice the signage change. I actually drove past it, and I believe the signage has been put in, yeah. And the landscaping plan looks great. I will just state, I mean, that it's... it obviously is like kind of a mock-up because like the pylon sign that says pylon sign existing is in the wrong location and it's also facing a different it faces north south in reality it's closer down to like where it says exit 30 feet wide like that's kind of where the pylon signs are and they face like left to right But I like the spirit behind this. And like staff was telling us, it would have to really go through building department anyways. We're just kind of seeing a general of what the spirit is. Correct. Okay. All right. I also like that there is an egress and ingress where we didn't have one before. So, yeah. Anyone else want to ask any questions or kind of note anything?

No, I think, yeah, as you say, I like the updated information that we're getting and the spirit behind it. I'm sure the staff would have to do a lot of work with the applicants to make sure that things are lining up with what governance is for any adjustments, but I think I like the updated information that's been provided. I have no issues with it at all.

I like the visual that we are given here. My concern, and I don't know that we have any say in it, is the distance between the Existing building in the. Southern border is that it in here it shows it striped and is that going to be parking or is that just going to be an exit flame?

Yeah, I think originally it was a drive through Lane, but that's been closed for some years and it looks like in this image that they've added some landscaping and maybe like a side entrance. um but yeah i think this is this is kind of like a ai mock-up rendering so i wouldn't take everything literally on this image because some of the stuff looks a little different from the last time i filled it there um and then staff On the last time that we met, when we tabled it, we did ask, I know we're not allowed to regulate building materials and colors, things like that, but we did ask for restriping the site, including clearly marked entrances, exits, and parking spots. would that be something that if this sup is approved that we could keep on the sup that the parking lot must be reached right clearly is or is that part of i mean i wouldn't consider that part of building or materials but i don't know they do have to um

Restripe the site if needed to follow ordinance regulations when it comes to traffic safety on sites. I wouldn't be able to disclose exactly what those would be for lots of the square footage, but that's something that you can certainly include within the conditions of your SUP.

Okay. so it sounds like i mean uh we asked for more details we were given some more details and staff has told us you know that there's going to be other city departments kind of watching over safety and landscaping so if anybody has any questions either for staff or for i believe we have a representative for the applicant here we can call them up if not um can entertain a motion

So Mr. Chairman, I think, as I said, I like the information. I would like to move forward with making a motion. I want to move to make a motion to approve 2B, which is the consideration and action regarding the specific use permit to allow operation of convenience store with fuel sales at 501 and 711 North Saginaw Boulevard. Okay, do we have a second?

I'll second that. Mr. Chairman, are you all adding any stipulations?

I do not have any stipulations. No.

Like the requirement of a landscape plan?

Well, I believe, if I'm not sorry to interrupt your motion, I believe if we heard correctly that we're not really allowed to or it's not appropriate for us to put that on there, but that other city staff, like the buildings department, will make sure that the applicant follows what is in the overlay district's rules. Is that what I heard correctly? I thought that's what we were told.

You can still add the stipulation to ensure that the SUP will be able to uphold the applicant accountable to have landscaping improvements on site.

Okay, perfect.

Well then, I guess I could restate that. So again, my motion is to approve 2B, which is the consideration and action regarding an SUP to allow operation of a convenience store with fuel cells at 501 and 711 North Saginaw Boulevard. And with stipulation that the SUP or the applicant and the city, the applicant works with the city to meet the standards prescribed by the city and the overlay district guidelines.

Okay, and we have a second by Vivian. Do we need to re-second that?

I'll re-second it. Can you please specify for landscaping? For landscaping, yes.

I would specify landscaping developments and then of course if you want the striped entrances and exits as well.

Yes, can you add that please? Landscaping exits and entry and exit markings.

Parking.

And parking. And parking.

Did we have a second? Yes. Vivian seconded it, and then she reseconded it once you restated it. OK. Yeah.

We're good?

Do you want to run? Bow?

all righty and the motion passes so we look forward to welcoming y'all to saginaw all righty so now we're gonna go to 2a which is the workshop uh pnz member training uh with abra arnuser from lja planning and landscape architecture

Mr. Chairman, we have Ms. Afranacer today to just go over some general training for y'all today. And if we need any more, she'll be the one who comes and joins us again.

Perfect. And really quick, do I need to open this one up? It's not a public hearing. Got it.

Well, good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission. Like we mentioned, my name is Abra Nusser, and I'm with LJA. I am a city planner by trade. LJA is full service, so we do planning, design, engineering, land development, you name it. And we serve many cities throughout Texas, but LJA is nationwide. I have worked in Saginaw now for several years off and on. So I was the project manager for your 2022 comprehensive plan. It's been a minute, but I'm happy to be here this evening. I'm going to run through some slides, but we can talk about them as we go. If you have a question, I would rather it be conversational, but we can also wait till the end and you can save your questions for then. But this is your training, right? So it is whatever you guys need it to be this evening and these slides are just for inspiration, kind of some common topics that we see.

And I'm gonna have to get this clicker to work.

Here we go. So having an effective meeting, there are several different stages. There's before the meeting, during the meeting, and what we call managing conflict, and then there's the ethical consideration. So before the meeting, really just being prepared. During the meeting, following the process, staying on topic, making decisions based on criteria. Managing conflict is typically if there's a very interesting public hearing, you've had those, where people come and they've got passions and fears and all the things. But managing conflict, sometimes there's little quarrels out here in the audience and sometimes there's just a loud ruckus in general. and then ethics right so you guys have a law laws that you've got to follow not just within the city of saginaw code but also in the state and then there's just you know right from wrong right so your role as commissioner before the meeting is to evaluate the land use requests apply any adopted plans regulations policies and criteria ask questions and establish facts, make recommendations based on planning considerations, and then to help implement the Saginaw Comprehensive Plan and the Code of Ordinances. So when we're looking at a request like an SUP, for example, like you guys just considered, the ordinance will outline all the criteria that are typically included with your consideration of that item. So it'll typically say something like, It shouldn't adversely impact the property owners adjacent to it, shouldn't have a lot of noise and light, and it should be generally compatible with the properties around it. So there are many factors that go into various different types of applications, and we'll have some more slides on that.

Where is it?

OK, so before the meeting and this can kind of be a gray area, right? So when I'm talking to especially new commissioners or commissioners that just generally haven't had a lot of experience there, they want to be prepared, but they have this packet sometimes with several items and they just don't know what to do with it. So you'll just kind of just be flipping through the pages, scrolling through the pages, trying to find something that looks like it stands out but there's a way to approach it in a more methodical fashion so the first thing that we want you to do is always locate the subject property I know that sounds very basic but it really is important not just for you as commissioners and for City Council members and Board of Adjustment members but also for staff as they're doing their development reviews right so if I can't tell you how many times I've heard people discussing a case and then they're like, wait, where is this? So, you know, you've got to like figure out where it is. And even if it's on Google Maps, Street View, like just take a journey, you know, like see what's on the aerial and see what's around there. But really locate the subject property. It goes overlooked sometimes. You can also go visit the property if it's convenient for you. Just don't engage with the property owner and you can take a brief look and sometimes you'll see something that's really relevant. Next, understand what is around the subject property. It can be definitely applicable to various types of planning requests. So if it's a rezoning or a specific use permit, you really want to make sure that it's compatible with the areas around it. And it can really relate to certain features that the applicant's proposing. So if you're... you know, reviewing something that you're concerned about the access points. Well, where's the other access point that's closest to it on each side? Things like that can really be relevant.

Can I ask?

Yeah, go ahead.

Specifically on that point, when do we draw the line on what is around the subject property. Because we have this mixed use development here in town, and the company came a couple of times and asked us to change the site plan of it. And I wanted to talk about the previous site plan that we had adjusted for them. But I was told by the staff, we can't consider that. We're only considering this parcel. I guess what I'm asking is, in what context do we consider what's around the subject property? Obviously, if it's residential next to a gas station or something. do we consider if it is apartments versus single family homes or like, do you know what I mean? Like where do we draw the line on how to understand what's around it?

Yeah, it really depends on the type of request, right? So if it's a plat, you don't have any discretion. So if it meets the subdivision ordinance, meets the zoning ordinance, it has to be approved even if we don't like it, even if we don't feel like it's compatible. Plat, you gotta approve it if it meets the ordinance. If it gets into some of the more discretionary type of approvals, like a specific use permit or special use permit or rezoning, that's when you can really open it up to considering the compatibility around the subject property.

I understand. We were replatting it. That's why.

Okay. Okay. So that would be why. Yep. But when you're thinking about a rezoning, compatibility of the surrounding properties is definitely something that you should be considering. Okay. And then identify and understand the type of request. That can be really important too, because like I said, if it's a plat, then really there's not a lot that you can do if it meets the ordinance. You can still ask why something is a certain way. You can say, I really wish that this entrance was coming off of here because, man, I've seen it at 5 p.m. and it's a nightmare. But you couldn't require that as commission. For a plat, it's okay to still ask questions, but you just really need to make sure that you're on topic and you understand that it is not discretionary. So a lot of times, you know, we'll have a plat and someone will go down a rabbit hole of, you know, when it rains it floods and then suddenly someone's talking about snakes and then someone starts talking about a shed that fell over and like you know you quickly can get off topic so it's really important to try to stay focused the actual plat application you know if it is a plat now with when it's rezoning it can be kind of a more fluid conversation but it really needs to relate to the comprehensive plan and it needs to relate to the criteria that are set forward in the ordinance you've got to focus on the land use and the compatibility and implementing the city's plans So, you know, the snakes and the shed falling over and everything, it can get off topic very quickly. So review applicable plans and studies. If it is a rezoning request, taking a look at the comprehensive plan is something that you definitely should do. A lot of people only use the future land use plan or the character framework in a comprehensive plan, but it's actually the whole book. And a lot of people haven't actually looked through the whole book of a comprehensive plan, but there's a lot of good stuff in there and you're actually required by law to rezone in conformance with your comprehensive plan, not just the future land use plan. So keep that in mind. And then know what decision or recommendation the P&Z is being asked to make. So sometimes the P&Z could maybe be the final approval authority, and sometimes you're just making a recommendation to city council. So you can keep that in mind as well, but you really should ask What the next step is if you're not clear, so you know, is this sup going to City Council? If so, when you know, really try to figure out what the process is for the application type. If it's not listed in the memo for the staff report, or if you're unclear, just really understand. Are you making a recommendation or are you the final stop? Because that can be something that's really important to understand. So, oh, look at that. All these things I just talked about. But locate the subject property. Where is it? What's on it? What is it zoned? Understand what's around it. So using the interactive map, Google Maps Street View, you can get on the Tarrant County Appraisal District and find some fun clues on there. You can look and see when it was constructed. You can look and find all sorts of information. You can see we've already talked about all of those. We also have some other plans and studies in Saginaw that might be applicable. So for example, you guys have a Parks and Recreation Master Plan, which is also relevant sometimes to a request. Maybe they have a key trail connection that the city had envisioned. So making sure that we're looking at those as each application comes through can help implement those plans. And then, we already talked about that. So types of questions. I'm gonna read these. What standards or criteria are we required to use when making our decision? So like I said, for an SUP, typically there's a list in the ordinance and if you don't know what the list is it's a good question to ask hopefully you have that question before the meeting on the left side it says ask staff staff really appreciates when you look at the packet beforehand and let them find your answers for you because sometimes they're not very straightforward and they might need to research them or phone a friend. So asking staff before the meeting is really something that can get you a more informed answer. What findings could support approval? And what findings could support denial? Like what could cause a denial in this case? How does the request compare to the comp plan? What specific impact should we evaluate? Are there examples of similar projects elsewhere in the city? Then has staff identified any concerns that could be addressed with conditions? Sometimes staff might tell you that an application has been particularly challenging, That was odd. I think it was a bird. But you could maybe be able to address the application with some sort of conditions. It is important too to make sure that the application you're considering is sufficient. So it's important that you have the information that you feel like you need to make a good decision. And if you don't feel like you have that information that you need, that's something that you should definitely tell staff before the meeting because they might be able to get more information from the applicant prior to the meeting. It really helps make you feel more prepared than having to make a decision at the dais with everyone staring at you. If you feel like you need more information on what the applicant's proposing, maybe on their exhibit or something, that's a good thing to ask staff before the meeting. All right, so the P&Z during the meeting. So the chair leads the meeting, maintains order, keeps discussion focused, and clarifies motions and calls for the vote. The vice chair needs to be prepared to assume the role of chair if needed and supports orderly discussion. Everyone should support orderly discussion. And then ask questions, establish facts, deliberate, make motions, discuss motions, and vote. I want to share with you a little trick here that I find really helpful. If staff has told you what the conditions are that they think you are asking for, you can actually say, so moved. And it's a little trick that can really help some of the back and forth, but if they've said the conditions into the microphone and they're clear what the conditions are, then you can say, so moved. And that really helps the back and forth trying to figure out the conditions. And then someone seconds the motion, right? And then you can discuss the motion. THERE ARE SOMETIMES CONDITIONS OR ORDINANCE PROVISIONS THAT ARE STIPULATED IN YOUR PACKET. FOR EXAMPLE, FOR AN SUP, STAFF WILL PROVIDE A DRAFT ORDINANCE MOST OF THE TIME. THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE IT BEFORE COUNSEL BUT MOST OF THE TIME IT'S PROVIDED BEFORE PNZ UNLESS THERE'S SOME SORT OF SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE AND THERE SHOULD BE SOME SORT OF PROVISIONS IN THE ORDINANCE. SOMETIMES THEY'RE CALLED CONDITIONS BUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY NOT CONDITIONS. approval so you can kind of use that as a cheat sheet as well the conditions or provisions that they are recommending and then alternates participate in discussion the motion and voting authority depends on whether they're serving for a regular member or not but in Saginaw you're allowed to participate in discussion So staff, your friends over here, they provide professional analysis and recommendations. They review the applications for completeness and code compliance. They coordinate review with applicant and other departments. They answer procedural and technical questions from the commission. They ensure notice requirements and legal procedures are followed. And they implement commission and city council decisions. A lot of times on an application, staff has had many, many, many conversations with an applicant, sometimes formal meetings, maybe pre-development meetings, or maybe to discuss certain comments, trying to get it ready for your consideration. So you can actually ask them, hey, have you talked to the applicant about this? And they might say yes, but I recommend you talk to the applicant directly about that. And if the applicant's here, then you can say, great. Mrs. Applicant, can you tell us about the trees that you're proposing and let them kind of describe them to you and make sure that what they're saying is reflected in their application and if it's not then you can condition your motion to make sure that it gets locked in and required. So the city attorney, you've got two today. They are your legal advisor and risk manager. They can advise the commission on state law, due process requirements, the Open Meetings Act, ethics and conflicts of interest. They help ensure decisions are legally defensible, explain the limits of the commission's authority, provide guidance on motions and procedural issues, and provide occasional training. Another tip that I'll share with you, if you feel like you have gone into uncharted territory and maybe it's a very packed chamber, maybe it's something that you were prepped on before in some way and you feel like you have gotten into some sort of legal territory that you're not comfortable with, you can actually request to call a recess and request training at any time, right, attorneys? So that's a little trick. If you feel uncomfortable from a legal perspective, you can actually call for a recess and go into executive session and have some training. And it's not to discuss the actual case, but you can actually discuss some legal questions about the type of request. So that's a little trick as well. Applicants, so they explain what they're requesting. They can demonstrate how the proposal meets the required approval criteria. They present supporting evidence and exhibits. They answer questions from the commissioners, address concerns raised by staff, neighbors, or commissioners, and provide expert witnesses when needed, like engineers, architects, planners, traffic consultants, You see how I added the planner in there that wasn't listed. But the applicant can tell you in their words what they're proposing and answer any concerns that you might have. Just a note on the applicant. Applicants are not required to come to the meetings. So you don't automatically table if they're not here. But it's not, must be present to win or whatever that phrase is. But you can consider the request and you can make a motion and actually take action and make your recommendation if the applicant's not here. It's always better if they are here so you can ask them questions, but it's not required. And then the public, their role is to express support, concerns, or opposition, provide local knowledge of traffic, neighborhood character, infrastructure issues, environmental concerns, quality of life, or offer information the commission may not otherwise know. So they also participate through public hearings and citizen comments. So one of the things here that we see most with meetings that may go astray is a back and forth between the public. And that's really not proper procedure. So you open the public hearing. And even if they ask you questions directly, just say, we're not responding to questions while the public hearing is open. We will discuss the item once the public hearing is closed. And you can make notes. while they're talking like this resident has a question about drainage or whatever and then you can actually talk about some of the issues once you close the public hearing but the back and forth really can create some meeting chaos that you really want to prevent so have the public hearing maybe take some notes and especially people are asking questions but really you want to avoid a back and forth while the public hearing is open So then you close the public hearing and we'll go through that process here. So the chair introduces the item. There's typically a staff presentation and you can ask questions at that time. The applicant can actually make a presentation if the applicant is present. They might just get up at the podium and say I'm here to answer any questions if you have any but sometimes they'll have a PowerPoint especially if it's a major item. that they want to brief you on. And then you can ask questions. You open the public hearing, you take your public comment, and then you close the public hearing. And then you really start the deliberation process. So once you're done deliberating, then it's time to make a motion. And then you can discuss the motion. And I've got some more details here, but then you second the motion and vote on the motion. You guys know this, but. So really, there are two modes. One is listen, and one is deliberate. So once you close that public hearing, it's really a mark in the process that kind of transitions you into that deliberation phase. want to continue not a back and forth with the audience you don't want the back and forth so really you want to make sure that you get all your questions answered if possible before you close that public hearing you can ask staff and the attorney questions up until the last minute when you make your vote so you know you can always consider them a technical resource So staying on topic, what is appropriate? The proposed access could create a traffic conflict. Yes, that's appropriate. I don't like this business. No, that is not appropriate. The lighting may impact adjacent homes. Yes. They'll compete with an existing business. No. The screening doesn't adequately buffer the residential property. Yes. I don't like the applicant. No. So there are, you can see kind of some differences in the examples, but these, these are real things that have come out of people's mouth. Um, and we want to make sure that we're really considering the application and the land use and whatever type the application is not the actual applicant. Um, even if they say inflammatory things or, or something like that, um, it's not a popularity type of thing. You really need to stay focused on the application. Here's that spectrum of discretion that I was talking about. You really got hardly any discretion on the platting side. You can still ask questions and ask why certain things are the way they are and ask certain things, but You really don't have a choice to approve if it meets the ordinance and then you've got kind of the spectrum of discretion that goes In the middle you've got your specific use permit. So it's not just open-ended it's actually certain criteria that are listed in the ordinance and And then a rezoning is definitely a lot of discretion when it comes to what you can consider and you just need to make sure that you're zoning in conformance with your comprehensive plan and that you're following the city's ordinance. And then you can actually have text amendments to the ordinance. So making clear decisions during the meeting, really you wanna make sure that you're thinking about is the zoning appropriate for this property? For an SUP, is this particular use appropriate at this location? And you can actually consider the function of that use, right? So in an example, you can talk about whether you feel like the screening is adequate for the noise that they're going to be producing or some of the other things and then for a PD you really want to think about is the requested flexibility from the city standard regulations appropriate so what is the applicant providing that's above and beyond that is going to help mitigate whatever they're requesting Thinking beyond this applicant is really important. So is this zoning appropriate for the property? Related to the applicant and that's really challenging sometimes to separate the two But some questions you can think about is what uses become permitted Is the zoning compatible with surrounding development? What development pattern could result? What are the potential land use impacts? How will this look 20 years from now and can our infrastructure and services support the use or uses? So really focused consideration on your zoning. And then if this applicant sold the property tomorrow, would the requested zoning still be appropriate? And these are not the only questions, just some example questions. For an SUP, what are the characteristics of this particular use? What impacts could it create at this location? Does it satisfy the city's SUP criteria? Can reasonable conditions address the impacts? So then you've got that list of things that you can think about for the site and the function of the use. So we're approaching our destination here, but from discussion to decision, making a motion, really you've got to follow Robert's rules of order. We know you were recently trained on that, but it's really you just make a motion, you second the motion, you can discuss the motion, then you vote on the motion, but there are some more complexities, right? And then you, it's really important that the chair announce what the result was at the end of the action. And then making a good motion, you say what the case, the project was. You can read the caption from the agenda. And then what action you're taking and if there are any conditions or special ordinance provisions that you're recommending. And then instead of I make a motion we approve this, you would say I move to recommend approval of case blah, blah, blah as presented subject to the conditions identified by staff and provided in the staff report. So that's another way if they're listed in there that you can do that. And then managing conflict, just deescalate early. The chair or the vice chair, depending on who's running the meeting, can say let's bring the discussion back to the request before the commission. You know, if someone's off topic, that doesn't mean you can necessarily stop them from speaking, but you can try to guide them back to the topic at hand. You can listen. Can you explain how that concern relates to the land use request if you're unclear? Not in a combative way. So you don't say it flippantly. Can you explain what you're talking about? But you can actually clarify what the resident or whoever speaking is saying if you need clarification. That kind of back and forth is okay. But you just don't want to engage in a large conversation. And then remain neutral. You can say things like one person at a time, please. And then call a recess if you need to for training or just to take a break. If things get too heated, you can call a recess and get some water, maybe escape the heat. And then ethics, the meeting isn't the only place the rules matter, but just talking about a walking quorum is important, so be cautious about discussing commission business with other commissioners outside of a posted meeting. Don't prejudge a pending case publicly or turn the case into an outside public debate. This is very important on social media. The keyboard warriors out there are very powerful, but they also say things that are really inaccurate, and it can be really hard to not engage. I know it firsthand, you know, I see things all the time that are inaccurate or inflammatory, AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT AS COMMISSIONERS TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT ROLE IN THE COMMUNITY AND CITY COUNCIL DOES AS WELL, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE CONSIDERING THE PROJECT COMING FORWARD. SO IT MAY FEEL LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN PROVIDE THE ACCURATE INFORMATION. it's really an important balance that you gotta keep on social media to not engage with cases that are coming before you for consideration because that's when you might get into some sort of ethical consideration. MEETINGS WITH APPLICANTS, SO JUST UNDERSTAND THE CITY'S EXPECTATIONS REGARDING COMMUNICATIONS OUTSIDE THE PUBLIC MEETING AND DISCLOSE CONTACTS WHEN REQUIRED. AND THEN ACCEPTING GIFTS, KNOW THE CITY'S ETHICS RULES BEFORE ACCEPTING ANYTHING FROM APPLICANTS, DEVELOPERS OR OTHERS WITH BUSINESS BEFORE THE CITY. BUT PLAINLY SPEAKING, Don't do anything you can't justify on the nightly news, right? So if you don't want it aired out for everyone to see, you know, don't do it. Just avoid the perception. The perception is reality sometimes, right? So just don't do it if you don't want it aired out on the nightly news. It's a good test to whether you might want to do something or not. And just a note on disqualification from voting. I'm going to read this because it's part of Saginaw's ordinance. A member shall disqualify himself from voting whenever he finds that he has a personal or monetary interest in the property under appeal or that he will be directly affected by the decision of the commission. A member may disqualify himself from voting whenever any applicant or his agent has sought to influence the vote of the member on his application other than in the public hearing. So it's your individual responsibility to disqualify yourself. No one else's responsibility but your own. So keep that in mind that you do have that responsibility. And then last but not least, just be prepared, follow the process, stay on topic and make a clear decision. You know, follow the tips, but also one of the most important things is just look at the packet before the meeting. I know that sounds basic, but you'd be surprised, you know, in the old days when we all had hard copy packets, we would literally hear the envelope ripping once they got to the dais, you know? So, you know, it's, It's something that you really should look through before the meeting. It's a responsibility and really that gives you an opportunity though to also ask questions of staff and they can ask questions of the applicant so that you can come to the meeting feeling prepared and ready to listen to the testimony that's provided by the residents and the applicant and ask what questions you need to at the time. So happy to answer more questions.

My question isn't about the material in the training. I would like a copy of the training.

Okay, that's fine. Staff actually has it downloaded, so they can provide that. Thank you. No problem.

Yeah, that might be good for everybody to have, if not a physical copy, like a email PDF to each member, yeah.

Any other questions about anything you guys have been struggling with from a process standpoint or?

I think our, at least, okay, me, I have trouble, because I've been on the commission for a little while, for a few years, and I've, you know, started out as an alternate, and then a member, now I'm chair, is some of the changes that have happened from the state, because I feel like I'm still learning some of them, because a few, two years ago, I feel like we were telling places, you know, needed to be masonry and i remember one development we literally told them the number and species of trees that they had to put on the housing development because of some reason and now a lot of that isn't allowed so i'm still we're still kind of bumbling through that at meetings

just when you figure it out they'll change it again no but i mean keeping up with the the regulatory environment staff and the attorneys can attest it's an ongoing thing what i would recommend is that after each legislative session the city attorney can actually provide training on what might be relevant to the pnz once the regulations pass sometimes they need a a few months to absorb what's happened. And sometimes we really won't have guidance on a new law until a city gets sued, you know, until there's litigation in case law. And so all we can do is interpret with our best guess and our best informed guess what applies. But after each legislative session, I know TOS has the resources to do that, is to provide kind of a rundown of the legislative updates. And so maybe that would help, but you're right, it does change. And sometimes, it might be said that you can't control certain things, but it's okay to ask why, because sometimes you can control landscaping, for example.

But not masonry. Thank you very much for your presentation.

Thank you.

It was very informative.

Yes, thank you. All right. Thanks.

All right. Well, I guess I'm going to close out this section at 6.51 PM. And we don't have public hearing tonight, correct? Yep. And so now I'm going to go to the staff report.

Mr. Chairman, just a quick report. We haven't had many drastic changes, but Bailey-Boswell Professional Center is a project that has already been completed. Acceptance letter is in the process of, has been issued. The Opal gas relocation at Southern and Longhorn Drive is ongoing as well as a couple other utility relocations on FM 156 and Industrial Boulevard and McElroy. for Rose City Plaza, Frontier Settlement, and Saginaw Retail, all commercial developments towards the northwest corner of the city still in progress, and we've seen some of them starting to work on the building infrastructure.

on schedule with the construction.

We're open to any questions if you have any.

I have a question. On the Falcon distribution, I noticed that they're doing landscaping and whatnot. Do we know where that stands?

You're asking for the status on completion for landscaping?

Well, not really, no. I assume since they are clearing the land that they have actually acquired that land.

We are still waiting for them to confirm on the land swap agreement. So the owners of the Falcon Distribution Center property and Star Manufacturing are still in the process of executing the land swap.

Okay, because they've cleared the land and they've done a lot of land movement there, and I was just thinking that they probably wouldn't do that unless they had actually done the acquisition.

Yeah, no, it's still pending, but for what is within their property, they are doing land clearing to finalize landscaping and irrigation installation, but I'm not sure if Susie has any other insight on that.

Yeah, they have conditional approval, so they're good to go with what has been approved.

Okay, thank you. And I also want to say thank you to whoever on the East McElroy striping. Much appreciated for whatever that's worth.

for sure yep happy to see some new retail getting built around town and um also the former fire station city hall broke ground this last week that was very exciting to see um i was sad to see some of the trees at the old veterans park taken out but i heard we're gonna get a really cool thing there so excited just to see everything getting built around town

Alrighty y'all do we have executive session this evening?

Alrighty so if that is all I will entertain a motion to adjourn the meeting.

I so move.

Okay do I have a second?

I'll second.

We almost did that in record time. I know, right?

I could just have Vivian and Benjamin spoke. Of course, I'm the one that's holding this up. Unless you want to stay here a little longer.

All righty, and the motion passes. I'm going to close out this meeting at 6.55 PM. Thank y'all.