Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Benjamin Guty, place number two. Here, Philip Allen, place number three. Melinda Julian, place number four. Here, Jason Labriier, place number five, absent. Uh, Vivian Anderson, first alternate absent. and uh Valvesus our second alternate um notified via email they would not be uh here. So we have three members uh that establishes quorum. Now I'm going to call for um audience participation. Uh is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on any of the agenda meetings this evening? Please, you can come up to the uh microphone and state your name uh if you would like to say anything during the items. What was that? During the items. During the items. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, now we're going to do consideration and action regarding approval of minutes. So, this is the meeting from April 8th of 2025. Uh, do I have a motion on the minutes from the previous meeting? A motion to approve the meeting the minutes from the previous meeting. All right. Do I have a second? All in favor say I. I. I. Okay. And then now we are going to go to the public hearing portion uh 2A. Consideration and action regarding a request for a specific use permit to allow a massage therapy establishment at

7:30 South Sagenov Boulevard. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, sorry. Will you open it at the time of the public hearing? Got it. Uh, I now open for 2A to a public hearing at 6:19 p.m. Um, good afternoon. The planning and zoning division received an application for a specific use permit to allow massage therapy establishment at 7:30 South Saga Boulevard. This address is located in a community commercial um section of our city and the legal description is Ranger North edition block 16. The applicant is present at this meeting alongside the um interpreter. We did include the redacted application as well as the notices that were sent out for this application. At this point, we're open to any questions that you might have. Just in case I didn't hear it properly, do we have the the uh name for the business like what it's going to be called or do we just have application for this type of business? We just have the application for the business, but we can have the applicant present and you can ask them that qu those questions as well. Okay. Um, but if y'all don't have any questions for staff, we can go ahead and introduce the applicant. And at this time, we're only considering the use, um, they'll have to go through other procedures for any sort of building design, things like that. Got it. So, um, once they've talked, I'm going to walk you'all through a couple of things that, um, you'll specifically have the power to ask about, just because it's been a minute since we've

met, and kind of Okay. move you all through that. For sure. So I guess for the city um this is a special use permit meaning this specific is this specific type of business not normally uh permittable in this area. Right. They would have to submit a specific use permit application and it would be up to the discretion of the work. Got it. And I heard again I'm sorry I want to make sure I heard right. I thought I heard you say the word eesthetician. So that is like like esthetician is like beauty things like Botox and eyebrows and um No, I apologize if I didn't speak uh clearly but it would be a massage therapy establishment. M establishment. Okay, got it. That's the word you said. Okay. Okay. Uh if no one else on the panel has a question for the city staff, should we move to our city attorney for question for like kind of um the applicant present? Okay. I wonder if the applicant wants to present and then Yeah, I'm sure yall have questions. Sure. Yeah. Could we have the applicant for this special use permit for the massage parlor at 7:30 South Sagenol Boulevard? Would you like to speak with your um your translator about the business? Okay. If you could please come with your translator up to the microphone and um just let your translator know what you would like us as the panel to know about your business.

Okay. Okay. Uh my the my plan for the surface is to do the massage mainly focusing on the neck and the back spine and up to the high uh waist on my back on the back. Uh, and I've been doing this for 16 years. Okay, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Um, can y'all please speak into the microphone, please? Uh, we are being recorded, so it'll allow for the recording to Okay, got it. Thank you. So, so that it is on the recording. She said that she has been uh doing this type of business for 16 years and that her plan is to focus on the back to neck area in massage. Um, so how is this going to be um more of a medical type massage? Like you'll be getting referrals from uh just as an example like workman's comp or something to get like issues done or is this like a walk-in appointment more of like um uh like up like management upkeep of you know sore stiff neck. So is this more like medical or more um uh therapy? Okay. Uh, it's more of the the therapy that the walking Okay. And is there a set amount of uh employees or rooms that will be had or will it just be one masseuse?

Uh okay. uh to start to begin with it's going to be just me myself because it's kind of like I'm doing the self-employment and then um but the design of the the location that there are rooms for a couple. Yes. So eventually that my friend that she has also done so many years for the service that she will come join me and help me. Okay. And so, uh, another question I have is like at some hair salons, the owner will own all of the suites and will have employees. At other hair salons, they rent out the rooms to other to other separate third party people that come in. Will these be her employees or will she be subleasasing suites to different people? Okay. It's going to be employees. Okay. Okay. Um, and for now, massage is the the the [Music] service you're going to be offering that. Does she envision any other types of services being offered? No, just massage therapy. Okay. Um, I don't have any other questions for

the presenter if anyone else on the panel has any other questions. I do. Um, you said you have 16 years of experience. Have you ever owned your own therapy location before? Okay. Okay. Uh yes. Um I worked four year uh two years in Korea. uh and then I owned the shop over there and then I came over here and then uh there were I came here four years and I had own my own shop. Okay. And what kind of hours of operation are you looking to Okay. Okay. Um Okay. um 10 to 8:30 from Monday through Saturday and then Sunday 10 11 to to 7. That's all questions I had. Does it happen with you? Well, we actually used to lease that space. That was our first photography

studio many years ago. and that has uh frequently had hairdressers, chiropractors, all kinds of things. So, it's a little traditional in the area. I have no problem at all asking that we approve this uh consideration to allow a request for SUP for massage therapy. Um I'm going to walk you all through a couple more things to consider while we do this. I think you'all are absolutely on the right track with all the questions you've been asking so far. Um I just want to make sure that um I can have a record that shows that y'all thought about each of these considerations. So under your code there are a couple of things you'll have to look at I suspect because this this is like a strip center, right? Yes. Um a lot of these are just default already satisfied because it's a pre-built building that's already there she's just moving into. Right. Um, so one of the main things to consider when you're granting an SUP is does this use contribute to the general welfare of the city's residents and to the convenience of the city's residents? So, um, previously we've had times where there's definitely been a statement of, "Oh, I'm having to drive, you know, to Fort Worth for this." Um, do y'all, so y'all should consider is this is this a positive thing for the city? Is this going to contribute to the welfare and the convenience of the residents of the city? You said you had a couple of points. Yeah, we're going to let probably her translate each point that that way she can follow along with us. You can Thank you. I also wanted to clarify once you've translated I want to clarify something with you. Um and then we need and Mr. Chairman, just wanted to let y'all know the questions are in the application on page two as well, just so you read them. Yeah. Thank you.

Okay. Ask So with that in mind, um, on your application, there was a question that you answered no to, but then in your explanation, I believe you meant to answer yes to this question. Um, so I wanted to read you what the question was and give you the opportunity to correct that um, while we're here just so that the record is clear on that. Um, the question was, do the benefits that the city gain I'll just let you interpret that and then I'll Okay. So, the question in the application was, "Do the benefits that the city gains from the proposed use outweigh the loss of or damage to essentially the city?" um is how that summarizes and you answered no to that

question but then in your response you you clearly intended to say yes at this time. Would you like to change your answer to that question to be yes? Okay. Um She has no idea what she was doing. That's fine. It's it's a complicated question. So, um, do you believe that the benefit that the city gains from the existence of the massage parlor would outweigh any harms to the city for the existence of the massage parlor? Okay. Uh I believe uh the business I'm doing is providing a very good service for the city. So it would never ever damage anything for the city. And and yeah, we heard you. Um can you even if you're speaking to her? No, no, it's okay. Even if you're trying to answer a question to her, if you could just speak into the microphone, just that way we have it for record, but we she does want to change the answer to yes, it provides a a service to the city. Yes. Perfect. Thank

you. you know, um, instead of walking instead of walking the the y'all through the rest of the questions, do all of y'all I know that some of y'all weren't maybe going to be here today. Have all of y'all had a chance to review the questions in the application? Yes. I I went through whenever we were talking back and forth and um Okay. I mean, I see the there's um there's parking at the strip center. Um, you know, they're changing they're adding one room, but that's not going to affect the rest of the suites. They're going to uh update the decor of the area. There will not be any cooking or any loud music. It's going to have nice smells on the inside. Um, I didn't besides that question, I didn't see anything that popped out to me personally. Okay. Um, and so then with that in mind, do any of y'all have any concerns about any of the answers to these questions? I know we had that one question that we've now corrected the answer to. Do any of the other questions carry any concerns for y'all? No. No. Not to myself. No. With that in mind then for an SUP um if the applicant has satisfied um all of these requirements um then generally the answer would be that you would grant the ver the the request. Now, because it's an SUP, sorry y'all, I don't know why this because it's an SUP, you do have the opportunity to add reasonable requirements to um when you grant an application like this. Um if you have concerns about anything um now would be the time to make that recommendation of

a requirement. So earlier I had asked about the name of the business and I know that this business will also have to go through building and permitting and um you know getting a occupancy license and I know it will have to go through other departments but do any of those departments have anything cuz we deal with signage right and so I want to make sure that there's not going to be like let me cut you off really quickly. Okay. The only restriction that can be placed on the the text of the sign would be that it cannot be obscene, right? Um as long as it's not obscene, then um the sign can there obviously other requirements of manner, place, height, the size and all that. Yeah. Um but the the content of the sign itself is not something that we can regulate. Okay. Okay. All right. So question would since we have already received her presentation, we've corrected something. Um we're done with the applicant. So the applicant could sit and then we can we'll discuss. Got it. You're um I do believe that there was um a written comment on this that has been submitted to y'all. Okay. As our Oh, excuse me. Okay. Um so what Our public hearing is still open. Yeah, the public hearing is still open. Okay. Read those as you'd like. Okay. Okay. So, I'm going to read out the We actually have three uh about this business. Um you can y'all can uh we have one letter if you want to just read what that one says. And then the other

ones are people that are in the audience. Correct. Um who are able to speak at the podium when Okay. And I'll call them up. Okay. Perfect. All right. Let me go to the letter. Um y'all can sit down. Thank you. Thank you. is the the reply form. Okay, you've got it. I was all right. Okay, so we have a response that we received via letter from Charlotte Hill, uh, address 629 South Hampshire in Sagena. Um it is the business will be located directly behind uh their property and they are opposed uh to the business. Um so that is the letter that we have um from a resident. Does she give any reason? It's the only thing given and it's actually written on the address line, not in the reasoning line, but I'm going to include it because she wrote it obviously. It says, "Mr. Chairman, yes, she is also here in the audience, so she could probably elaborate on that." Okay, got it. I didn't know if these three were in the audience, but this one wasn't. Okay, got it. Okay, so u if we could ask if they would like to speak. Um I'm sorry. Is that you? Never mind. I got a different face. That's not her. Never mind. Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay. Yes. Um Okay. So, I'm on one of four right now. So, Charlotte Hill, it says right behind my back fence, exclamation point opposed. That That's

all we have. No other reason. No other reasoning. Um, okay. Now, I have three uh audience requests. Um, audience participation forms. Um, any of these people are welcome to come up or I can read um their letter. Um, so first we have Aaron Tapper. Would Aaron Tapper uh like to come up to the uh podium or no? Sure. Oh, okay. All righty. So, my name is Aaron Tapper. I am the listing agent for 730 South Sagenov Boulevard. Okay. Uh I do think there is a need for a massage in the area. I mean there's not one within 15 minutes of this location. Uh I mean she has owned a massage business before. There's a need for it. I there's physical and mental benefits to massage and I really don't see a reasoning not to allow I mean some of these restrictions like a vape shop I would understand but for a licensed practice that's you know certified through the state I just can't find any reasoning not to approve uh and if you have any signage concerns we do have signage restrictions for the property is ultimately up to our approval we would not allow anything that would be detrimental to the property itself. Correct. Okay. Um, thank you for that. Yeah. And I'm I just I didn't know if there was a name of the business um that I wanted that's really my question um on that part. Thank you, Mr. Tapper. Okay. Then we also have uh Nancy Young. So would Nancy Young uh like to come up uh audience participation? Yes. Okay.

I confused. I apologize. Um I'm Nancy Young. I also live on South Hampshire Street. My question is um is this strictly a medical type facility? Because um how do I phrase this? U sometimes just the name massage could cause concerns about the type of clients they would have. Yeah. So, um I'm going to tell you that I al I have been on this commission for a while now and I also uh try to think down the the path of certain things too. But uh we are all are concerned about legal businesses operating in the city. That being said, there are law enforcement uh in the city and in the region that would uh ensure that all uh listed businesses are doing what they list. And if I can add to that, um my I'm one of the city attorneys of the city. Um one of the things I do for our cities is abatement of parlors like this. So, um, we under chapter 54, we can go in if we suspect that there is some illicit activity happening and we can shut the businesses down and we work directly with the district attorney's office to prosecute when that's happening. So, it is it is a concern whenever any business like this opens. We understand where you're coming from on it. Um, however, in the last 10 years, this while it while it still

happens, I don't want to diminish it that it is occurring. Um this industry has become so regulated and the lensure is so much more difficult to obtain that um I I want to assure you that even beyond what we do as the city the Texas labor and licensing boards um monitor this very closely and I I don't want it does still happen. So I appreciate you having that concern and bringing it forward. Um, but it is something that is is much more regulated than it used to be and much more monitored than it used to be. Okay. Thank you for clarifying. Yep. Okay. And then now um we also have January Thai I believe. Mr. Turban. Yeah, I believe that's just the interpreter for the Oh, okay. Got it. Okay. For sure. Um, do you guys want to did you want to speak on behalf? Yeah. Okay. Um, I just want to uh make sure that everybody understand uh my uh I'm a professional uh massage therapist and then uh not only I've done 16 years of massage but also that Um also that I've helped so many people especially uh when they have problem on their uh arm, shoulders, on

their back, their neck pain that uh I got so many good feedback from my customers. Uh so you know I I'm very proud of my service that I can and I'm also very proud of that I will be able to provide a service over here. Um, so I just want to make sure that you all know that. Thank you. Yeah. And I know I know that it has been mentioned and I know you turned in a form, but just to have it on the record, you are licensed in the state of Texas to run to do massage on patients and she is licensed. Yeah. Okay. Yes, she is. Okay. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, uh do we have anyone else that wants to speak on this issue? Okay. So at this time I am going to close the audience participation uh part of 2A and do uh do I open up us to to talk or do I call for a motion? Attorney Bronstein up to however you want to do it. Um does anyone on the uh well I guess I would have to open up to ask if anyone wants to talk about anything. So um you're already open. You can just ask if there's any further discussion. Does anyone else want to The only note I would like to make is along your concern in their uh their applicant. They had said the word massage parlor. I think that is a really negative connotation and I think that was just put into there because of lack of maybe English interpretation. But if can we say don't

call that that? I I mean it's up to her. it. I believe our code actually refers to it as a massage parlor instead of a massage establishment which maybe is would have been a a kinder there's just a lot of people who immediately react to that heavy phrase. Yes. Okay. That was my only question. Thank you very much. All righty. So, uh do do I have a motion uh to either approve or deny um to a a cons uh consideration and action regarding a request for a specific use permit to allow a massage therapy establishment at 7:30 South Sagenol Boulevard. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move that we approve the 2A consideration and action regarding a request for specific use permit to allow a massage therapy establishment at 7:30 South Sagenol Boulevard. Okay. Um, do we have a second? I second. All right. All in favor say I. I. I. All right. The uh 2A is approved. Now we are going on to 2B, a consideration and action regarding an ordinance amending the zoning ordinance of the city of Sageno, Texas regarding a regulation of carports. Mr. Chairman, for this item, um I know that you guys have obviously seen a few carport applications in the past few years. Um, essentially the city had opted to change the permitted use table to have them be regulated through SUP. However, we have a proposal in front of you um where

we're proposing with bills approval um to see if we can restrict that from the SUP and back to the building division. um and they would just take it as a regular permit. Um one of the problems with some of the things that we had saw during this trial process was that they still had to go to the building department and that's a different fee. So we were charging a fee on top of a fee and also within that there was a lot of other work elements that were added to it. So it has to go through the planning and zoning division. we have to review it. It goes to the building department. They have to review it. So, it was a bunch of back and forth and there are some with SCPs, there are notice regulations. So, that was an added fee as well. And the 375 fee wasn't covering the entire notice fee. So, we were actually losing money with that as well. Um, so just in terms of the process, it doesn't financially or just feasibly make sense to keep it through an SCP. But if we all have any detailed questions, y'all are more than welcome to ask. And we also have Mr. Chris Dyer here from the building department to answer any questions on their end because they're obviously the ones that still see the application in terms of regulations and we're more so the ones that just ensure that the application everything prompted for that is completed. Yeah. All right. So, uh thank you for that. Um, you know, I obviously don't want the city to be losing money on every single permit. Um, I also, um, know that, uh, it's ownorous on any homeowner, property

owner to have to come before multiple um, aspects of the city. And I fully trust our building and code department. Um because I myself have had to build pools and pergolas and uh what other water softener um lots of fun things. So I fully fully fence. So yeah, so I I fully trust uh that our department is thorough. So, um, you know, as much as I don't like generally, um, things being taken out of our purview, uh, this is one that I think is fair all around for homeowners myself. So, that's my two cents on it. Um, I wanted to point out that what I don't even know if it's working at this point, y'all. Um, I wanted to point out that what this ordinance does is essentially it removes it from y'all, but it still puts some pretty stringent construction requirements on it. This doesn't mean that they can't, you know, try to get a variance or something in the future on this, but the idea is that when we've seen cardboards come in front of y'all in the past, the concern has very much been let's blend it in with the property. Let's make it attractive. Um, and I believe that this ordinance accomplishes that goal um without making them come in front of y'all every time. Okay. All right. Well, um we are open on a um audience participation on 2B. So is did we have any letters turned in for 2B? No. Okay. Um is do we just open that now or has it been open? It open. So we would have Thank you. Okay. So, at this time, I'm going to open up uh P audience participation for 2B, consideration and action regarding an ordinance amending the zoning ordinance of the city of

Sagenoth, Texas, regarding the regulation of carports at 6:54 p.m. on Tuesday, June 10th. Uh, is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on um this item? Okay. Um, at this time I'm going to close the audience participation um, also at 6:54 p.m. And does anyone on the panel have any comments or want want to speak about this? Uh, yes, vice chair. had a couple of questions for the staff. Um, good background discussion provided. I appreciate that with the numbers, the fees, good information. Uh, one line in here talks about the number of carports that were approved. It was like three or four. So, we didn't get a clear number on that. But I guess one question I had was were there any SUPs that were denied? Mr. Chairman, um, member Allen Phillip, I'm sorry, Alan. No, it is Allen. You got the first name as the last name like myself. Um, there were none that were denied through y'all or council. Um, they were all technically just denied through the building department just because they needed the SUP um, to move forward. And so that was just the only technicality. But none of them were denied in the sense that through formalities they were and if I do remember correctly just for background um they all had um

details put on them. So, every carport that I remember that was before me, uh, we added some sort of building feature, whether it be materials or colors or, um, you know, stone and brick caps. All there were several uh, additions that were uh, placed on them, but those things are firmly in place already. They need to match their surrounding areas, but that's already in the Yeah. So, we don't need to be concerned with that. And Mr. Chairman, I would like to add um I'm sorry I didn't specify the exact um sentiments as to the what the new requirements were going to be, but they are outlined in the ordinance under section two. So, some of them was going to include some of the approved materials such as wood framing and decking with the current adopted codes, um, some metal, and with that, they had some minimums of the gauges that they had to use for the post, um, as well as some prohibited materials such as corugated roofing, fiberglass roofing, asphalt roofing, and rolled roofing. Um, so those were some of those key components. Um, Mr. Dyer, am I missing anything with the All right. Yep. Yeah. I also see like they can't exceed more than 600 square feet. Um, you know, the the height, you know, the the distance from the sideyard. Um, you know, there's there's seems to be um fairly, you know, detailed things put on it. So, I had a follow-up question for you guys. So, is this considered an objective approach where so long as they meet these building material guidelines and designs,

it would automatically be approved. It would automatically be approved. So, that would we could call that an objective approach to this, right? That again, if they meet the materials, then it's going to be permissible. Yes. Okay. I guess my concern is we are taking away I maybe quote guard rails from the process that might I think help the community rather than create inconsistency. Uh I like the fact that I mean I would just say I think that it can lead to an inconsistent approach uh and how these structures look without some kind of review by the city council. That would be my concern moving forward with this process. Well, with how it's written right now with the building people, I have no doubt the building people in the city of Sagenar are on every detail. This is coming from a business owner who has completed two full restorative buildings. Thank you, Mr. Dyer, for your help. It was painstaking and they despite anybody knowing anybody, it was by the book all the way through. So, I have no doubt that the city's got this. It doesn't need to come through us. We've never denied one. We've just asked for certain things that were already in place. City council hasn't. Building permits, they've they've got this down. I I also excuse me. Um I also had a similar concern. That's why I had stated as such like taking kind of things out of our purview generally concerns me. Um, that being said, the three or four car ports that have come before me in the 2 years or so that I've been on

here, they all have looked different because they all had to match the specific home and neighborhood they were in. Um, I remember one was in kind of the southwestern part of the city where it was older and there was more sighting. Um, and so we had them match colors and had to do caps. And then one was in the northwestern part of the city uh off the Basswood Highland area where it needed to be brick and cedar and we even stated like uh the post size and what you know above this height and stuff. And so as I guess as long as it as long as this wording, which from what I read, it does state that it has to match the general area. Um, you know, I I I think that kind of gets it uh to where it's matching that general area versus having a one-sizefits-all for the whole city. Do you know what I'm that that's kind of what I was thinking when I thought of um and that's already in place and I'm sure that the building permits and inspections are all going to maintain that integrity because they live in this city too. But it's already in place. All we're doing is just we're an extra step. Then it's still got to go to them and they've got to do it all over again. So I don't see any reason why we should have to see it and trust our building people to do it. Um, in in kind of echoing um, Mr. Allen's questions, can the city or or maybe somebody from building come and or somebody explain to us, I'm a homeowner in the city of Sageno. I want to build a carport. What would they have to do if we approved this? Just so that we understand fully what we're voting for tonight because we know that we're being taken out of it. I just want to make sure we know like

tomorrow I want to build a carport. What what are the several steps I would have to do that still go through the city? Yes. Um I'll definitely let Mr. Dyer take a chance at the entire process, but I did want to just point out um Mr. Allen um did have a good point that I do want to let y'all know. Um, so the reason why staff originally wanted to have this be under the SUP process was because you would be able to regulate it a little bit more. Correct. Obviously, you would still have to pertain to those 13 questions that Miss Bronson um previously mentioned for the SCP. Um, however, we have had a lot of applicants, residents within the city of Sagnol that have been very distraught with this process. A lot of them have been complaining that it's too extensive just for a carport. And so they've shared that they're negative feedback that they're having to jump through a lot of hurdles in order to get the SV and then still have to go through the building department. So, it was just an additional step that they really did not appreciate on top of the added fees and having to have their contractor set up an additional fee for them to have to communicate with our office, their office, etc. So, we just listen to their feedback and that's why we are just presenting this for y'all too. Um, but I definitely understand that concern. So, there is going to be that change within the SEP process. you do have a little bit more of authority to add those restrictive on top of that. Um, but I don't know if Miss Bronstein wants to add a little bit to what the difference between just SUP and it being approved by right as long as it meets the guidelines. And very quickly before attorney Brunstein or Mr. Dyer speaks, could could I ask because we have on here that we have approved three or four

since it was brought under our purview. How many people have said, "I give up." Because this is part of the reason why we're we're having this in front of us is partly because of residential complaints. If there are three or four, three or four that made it through, do we have an estimate that of people that didn't do it because they just got so frustrated or couldn't do it or we specifically I I don't know if three or four is correct as of the years where it was approved, but for the most part, we have been forwarded our office at least have been forwarded a lot of calls and they're just like, I'm just going to build it anyways. it's a joke blah blah blah in regards to the process. And so we've received a lot of that feedback as well, but I'm sure Mr. Dyer can emphasize a little bit more about what they receive on their end. Yeah. So I would say on a weekly basis, we would probably receive two people that actually walked into the office said, "Hey, what's the process for carports?" And out of those two people that walked in on a weekly basis, two people would walk out because they didn't want to go through the process. We would have very few, mainly those three or four that actually came in front of y'all and uh gave their speech and heard what y'all had to say and actually did what they were told to do and had their contractor come with them after hours which I'm sure is a cost. Correct. So most of the homeowners and I've also just, you know, I drive the city every single day. So I'll see, you know, carports the structural posts are already going up. I have to stop teller I don't have a permit. I don't have an SUP process. They're like, "Well, I just took one down and all I did was made it a little bit bigger and did a little bit different, but I was trying to put it back to where it was." Well, once you tear it down, it's complete alteration or complete removal. It's not a repair. So, it's a new structure. Has to go through the new process. Right now, currently in the city, I think I have two or three where it's just structural

post in the air, but no roof. So, they're parking their cars underneath no structure and they they're they're ready and willing to do whatever they got to do, but the the SUV process has stopped them completely. They don't want to go through it. Um, but just speaking on behalf of that, it's it's a very big number that come into our office and just say, "I'm not going to do it." Are there any car ports in the city right now that you're dealing with that people just built and you are having to deal with having them uh get fined or take it down or come through us or or Well, so uh there was one that during during the time of carport overlay district which is no longer in existence to the SUV process, there was one built Um, we went after that one as we don't have an SUP. We don't have a permit. They never came to our office. They said, "We don't think we have a chance." And they just tore it down. Yeah. So, they they came into compliance by tearing it down. Unfortunately, if they would have came to us with a permit and SUP, it probably would have matched the surrounding neighborhood because there's many, many, many like it in that neighbor neighborhood. Exactly. So, um, after seeing what what we've seen in the past few P&Z boards and the council meetings and been approved, I think they would have been okay. But unfortunately, it was the $375 fee plus the permit fee plus the time and the effort that it takes in order to get a approval from both boards. Yeah. Okay. Um, well, Mr. D, I had a quick question for you. Sorry. No, no, no. Yeah. Um, when I'm reading the uh background discussion, it talks about the difference between the zoning ordinance before 2022 and then after. And it says the intent says prior to the 2022 zoning ordinance,

carports were only allowed in specifically defined geographic areas. Why do you think they were only allowed in specifically not think, but you mean you're in there? Why were they only allowed in specifically geod defined geographic areas? Um, excuse me. I've only been here for 10 years, so prior to that, uh, I don't know exactly what the cause was. Um, rule of thumb was it was called a well, it was called a carport overlay district. Um, in those districts, you had asphalt roads, not concrete roads. And during that time, most of those properties had already undergone either they didn't already come pre pre-constructed with garages. They were like military style homes. They didn't have garages or they had a single car drive or something like that. They were very very small. um which whenever our off- streetet parking came into effect, there was a new regulation that all residential houses had to have two enclosed and they were required to have two off or two off- streetet parking essentially. So you had to have a availability of four cars to park in your driveway without blocking sidewalks or parking in the street essentially. Street is public way but you had to be able to put your four vehicles in your on your property essentially and two enclosed. So I guess during that time they said, "Well, we can come around those parameters and have covered parking, but those are going to be carports." That's where the carport overlay allowed it. But in the ones that were newly constructed, um, i.e., you know, the Spring Hollow or something like that, those had garages and you could park your two vehicles inside and then two vehicles outside, but you weren't allowed to have a carport because that was not in the overlay boundaries area. Okay. Very informative. Thank you. Um, I wanted to ask because I didn't quite see I I know that it says uh

maintain the characteristics of the primary structure adjacent. Does that I don't think that quite means that we can say if your house is purple, it has to be purple. But does that give us any as far as the billing department as far as like right now the way that is worded is just that you are the builder is encouraged to do that. Correct. If y'all would like, you can make a recommendation that this ordinance be amended to say that the um building materials needs to match the roofing material or that the facade needs to match, you know, the the roof, something like that. If if you want, right now it's encouraged, but if you would like to require that, um then you can do that. Okay. question. You you just used the word make the recommendation. So, but does that mean that city council is that the city council is who makes this recommendation? Well, right. If we make a recommendation, they don't have to listen to it. That's correct. So, this is all right. Let me walk this back a little because this is Can we switch mics? All right. Is this Am I allowed? Yes. Because what what is happening today is you can vote to approve it and we use that language. What you're actually doing is you're sending the uh the ordinance to council. If you vote to recommend against the approval of this or the you vote to not approve, right? All that you have done is you have created the the council now has to have a supermajority to be able to pass the ordinance. If you vote to approve it, they only have to have a majority to pass the ordinance. So, whatever you do, this is going to council, right? And they don't have to accept your recommendation. You're

correct. Though they tend to city, they tend to respect pretty heavily what you all put forward. Could we could we technically deny with a recommendation or to or to give a recommendation? We would have to deny. No, I mean you you Well, okay. So, if you're if you're making when I leave after this meeting, I write a summary to the city attorney that says here's what they talked about and here's what their concerns were and those concerns are delivered to the council. So, if you make a motion for you to make like a formal recommendation, it has to be approval with some modification of but I've already written down that these are what your concerns are. So those concerns are going to reach the council. Yes. Additionally, I was having mic troubles too. Um, additionally, we uh provide the minutes of this meeting to the council members before as well. So, we'll depict all of your commentary as well cuz my concern is that the building uh and permitting departments don't have the teeth that I think some of the members of this panel, including myself and fellow homeowners kind of want there to be. Um, I don't want to be so ownorous on a property owners, but I also don't want it to uh look shoddy or just thrown up. Um, the ones that we have approved um have had several things on there. It needs to match the trim of your house. It need, you know, several things. And if it just has a sentence that's somewhat vague, um, you know, needs to look like the character of the surroundings. I mean, that is a little too vague for my liking at this time.

So, yeah. And that's and that's all that's all that we can do is um, per say I was come out to one of the prop one of y'all's properties and y'all build a carport. I could say that it's highly encouraged and they can say, "Well, I'm not going to do that." Because that's just an encouragement. Um, Sometimes it's for budget reasons. Maybe they want it to look amazing, but budgetwise they, you know, uh, at this time can't afford to match the roof or whatever it may be. Um, but I mean, yeah, but we we as city officials, we can't tell you how to design or what your product is going to look like as far as uh, you know, hired city officials. Um, so yeah, we don't have the teeth unless it's in writing black and white and we can say this is what the ordinance is. This is what you signed your application. This is what you, you know, you signed up for essentially. Um, I just want to make that known as far as we don't design and I can't come out to the house and say you got to paint it canary yellow if you're, you know, if your house is canary yellow. I can't do that. Okay. Um, does anyone else have any questions for Mr. Dyer or do I mean I I still have more questions to our city attorney and maybe to staff. Does anyone else have any more questions for Mr. Dyer? No. Okay. No. Okay. Thank you. Not a problem. Thank you very much. Um, city attorney uh Bronstein, how many So, city council is six people plus mayor or five people plus mayor. And so I'm wondering majority versus supermajority. So super majority 75% majority 50% 51%. Got it. So it's it's normally one additional person needs to vote on it. Five six I

think there's six plus mayor. So that would be four votes or five votes. So, I really don't like that the city is losing money on these um applications. I also really don't like that um it's become complicated and there's a lot of back and forth and the city has to pay to mail out notices every SU and come to these meetings and all of these things. Um, but I I really um I I think I've said this before and I think other panelists have said this before when carports have come before us unless it's like needed because the house doesn't have a garage. I kind of don't I don't like them. Uh, I live in an HOA for a reason in my neighborhood because we would never allow that in my particular neighborhood, but there are other neighborhoods that don't have an HOA and I also realize we have weather and auto insurance is expensive and all those other kinds of things. So, I'm a little torn here, but I um I think uh if we can with my other panelists uh input send to city council um that we would like the language to be stronger and more defined and that you want it to look like the property that it's attached too the the property in the surrounding neighborhood um is what I am personally, you know, because that there are areas of our city where there is like a older neighborhood that is maybe sighting and then there is another neighborhood next to it that has all brick homes, you know, cuz our city was developed in several things. So, as

long as it's in that little enclave of of its neighborhood, if it matches that enclave and the property, I I personally would be okay with it. Um, so that that's my two cents on it. I want to hear from my other panelists, though. Well, I think my feelings on this are known. I have no trouble in at all in trusting the city and trusting the city council to take care of this. I don't think that if I myself wanted to put in a carport because I've got an antique car in the garage and my husband takes up way too much garbage with his tools he never uses and so my Escalade has to sit out in the weather. I don't know where I got these concepts, but if I wanted to build a carport and I'm not in an HOA and I prefer living in an older side of town and I came up here and I said, "Okay, I live in this nice little friendly city. I'm going to come in and I'm going to do what? I've got to go before the planning and zoning now. I've got to go for city council and you make my contractor come up here and this is my property." At what point do we reach that? That's a little too much government. So, if you want to live in a place where there's not going to be a carpet, move in a HOA. If you're going to move over here and trust the city to say, "We really want you to build it to look right." I agree with you 100% on that it should have that language so that the building people have a little more teeth. Um, I think just that little fudge in how that is written so that the city does say you cannot put up a kaleidoscope color pattern in this nice neighborhood. Other than that, I think that I'm good to go if we can pass along that recommendation to city council, which I'm sure they would probably want to do anyway. Absolutely. So, um, and I don't mean to cut you off, Mr. Allen, if you wanted to say. I did have one

question for you, and it goes back, um, to the procedural process, what a vote for and a vote against would mean to the city council, what the implications are of that. So, if I understand that correctly, if there was a majority vote by the three of us that's against this proposal, that would then require a higher voting threshold for the city council to approve this. Is that correct? That's correct. So, if the majority of y'all vote to deny this ordinance, the council would need in order for the council to approve the ordinance, they would have to have five of six members vote in favor of the ordinance to supersede our vote. Yeah. Um, and and just to be clear, I don't I carports haven't been allowed in the city besides the small carport overlay district the for the whole time. So that the carports have never been allowed in the city of Sagena except for the carport overlay district until recently with an SUP. And so as much as I personally also don't like generally like kind of government getting involved in all sorts of things like um you know I tell people every day cuz I'm on my HOA whenever they come to me you you built you bought you you know your your your real estate agent your title officer your your bank I mean like you have to be told like 10 times that you're building or buying in an HOA be the same thing in the city you know if you're having your real estate agent come to the city well Does Sagena allow us to have chicken coops? You know, like you would find that out kind of thing. So, I I do just want to um I do generally want things to be easier for homeowners, but the carports haven't been allowed besides this SUP until

recently. Um so, I think I I mean, uh I think we are all I think we all know kind of how we're feeling on this, but does anyone else want to share anything? the city attorney or anyone else on the panel. I I just want to make clear so you now have sort of two directions you can head in this. Um you can just this recommendation will make it to council. Um they'll get the minutes and I'll send a note to the city attorney when I get home tonight. Um you have the option now. You can vote to deny it altogether or you can vote to approve it with the addition of a um you know a uh request a request that the or a requirement that the surrounding property or that the carport is built to reflect the connected structure and surrounding property. A request for a requirement. I just want to be clear. Everything you do is a request recommend for sure. But but what I'm saying is right now the ordinance basically requests that it looks like it right. It encourages it. You would make it you would take it away from an encouragement and make it a requirement. So you would strengthen that piece of the ordinance and regardless they would still see the minutes. I mean, if they if they got a if they saw this city council and saw a denial, they well, why did they deny it and go read the minutes? Yeah. Okay. All right. I understand, Mr. Chairman. Um, yes, they'll they'll be able to have access to those minutes as well as those recording. Our meetings are recorded for that purpose as well for transparency. Um, but I just wanted to reach out to Miss Bronstein as well. Um, I believe that the other way that they could also vote is to approve it with the current language, maybe some of those changes,

and if they did not want it to be permissible because it's also changing the permitted use table in all of the residential areas, they could change it back to an SCP as well. Correct. Sure. You can. Yes. So, the major change that we've been kind of focusing on is the the construction type. Um, if you wanted to to alter because the the permitted use table is changing as well, you could also say you're okay with the construction changes, but you want you want to retain that SUP power in certain certain um zoning districts, right? So, what this change is doing is it's allowing it to be permitted in essentially all residential districts. If you want to only approve it to be default permitted in say multif family districts, but you're okay with it being an SUP still in the residential districts, you could do that. Or I'm sorry, not residential, but single family uh single family. But just to be I mean most of the headache that the city and the building department has been from single family homes. I assume I I would just assume. Yeah. Yes. I do want to point out uh I just wanted to let that know because I I feel like y'all may have a mix on whether to keep the SCP or not. Um but I do think that either way if we do opt to keep the SCP, some of these restrictions are important in that sense because it's not as detailed and defined right now. And I think that's an additional thing that the building department and planning and zoning have been struggling with. Um, but on top of that, I wanted to go back to previously the carport overlay district. It was fairly large in the sense that a good chunk of the residential area was able to have

carports. Obviously, like Mr. Dyer said, there were certain areas where, you know, there were newer um where the garages were already implemented into the cars. that was kind of opted out. Um, but multifamily as well as industrial in history have always been permissible. So that wouldn't be something that um is being changed in that aspect. U if you compare the original ordinance to this proposed one, it would just be mostly the single family and then the duplexes and multi-ousing th those types. Um so I did want to just specify that as well. Okay. All right. I do actually have another question and I don't know who answers this if it's legal or Mr. Dyer or the city. So, right now we have several neighborhoods either being built or platted to be built or are in process that are like the homes for rent. So if we were to approve this and take this out of our purview would since because those are owned by one entity. So for example, Tricon Sagenol that's just half a mile down the road. I believe most of those units have garages. But if Trion there's, you know, whatever reason they're, hey, we want to build 50 car ports now. would they would they would be able to do that with this. They would still have to go through building and permitting and all that kind of stuff, but um you know kind of imagining that they could just do that now. You're correct. So, um once if if the council approves the ordinance, right, then then yes. Uh are these single family housing? Is this They are single family housing, but they're for rent. And then there's

also like Yardley Belt Mill where it's single family but it's like a it's single family duplex. It's it's weird. It's a house for rent. So like they look like single family but it's they're so they have one owner instead of having a neighborhood where maybe there's somebody with a house for rent. You're renting from one entity. So assuming that um each of these areas are platted as distinct residential lots and yes you would they would be able to with the permit have a carport on each of those residential lots as long as they comply with the setback requirements. I think they might be plotted as multifamily. Um Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Bronstein, I will also add though those plans have already been approved civils as well as architectural. Um and some of these developments are within a development plan so they have added restrictions. Got it. Okay. All right. I just wanted Sorry. I wanted to talk through that with everybody. Just so clear. Are they part of the PD? Is that what's happening? Yes, they're part of the PD. I don't know what the PD specifies, right? But they are part of a planned overlay district. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. So, maybe it's not. Okay. Sometimes the sky is falling whenever I read the zoning right in front of me, but I would I could definitely Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, we're mainly talking about existing single family homes throughout the the city. Okay. Well, I want to sorry, let me be clear on that. You're it is possible that people can build new homes, right? But it's when you have these big developments where they're going to be those are almost always under a PD, right? Um just because that's how developers work, right? But obviously if someone bought a vacant lot, you know, you or I could build a house there and have it be not under a PD. Um but so are there any other questions that y'all feel like you need clarified on this? And we're still open for public comment, correct? So if anybody in the audience wants to We closed that before. We can

reopen it if we have concerns, but it has been closed. Okay. All right. Uh do I have a motion on 2B? Mr. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make the motion that 2B consideration of action regarding an ordinance amending the zoning ordinance of the city of Sagen, Texas, regarding the regulation of carports be passed. Um, and do I have a second uh or any um restrictions or anything? Um so if that motion has failed um I need that motion to be withdrawn. Okay. All right. Uh do I have a motion for 2B with any restrictions or any um suggestions for council? Okay. So, at this time, do I just bring up 2B and we vote? Is that how it goes? I mean, we need a motion. Someone's going to have to make a motion. All right. So, uh I make a motion to vote on 2B, consideration and action regarding an ordinance amending the zoning ordinance of the city of Sageno, Texas, regarding the regulation of carports. Let me be clear. What are you voting on? You said no. Well, we have to she Okay. So, member Julian just made an emotion to approve with with nothing. We then that withdrew. So now I'm making a motion to put it up for a vote either way. No, we need the motion. Oh, the we have to approve or fail. Got it. So her motion has been withdrawn. A new motion a

motion to deny. I Okay, got it. So I make a motion to deny to be consideration and action regarding an ordinance amending the zoning ordinance of the city of Sageno, Texas regarding the regulation of carports. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor say I. I. All uh in decline say nay. Nay. All right. And uh attorney Bronstein, does that mean that it passes? So, okay. So, that means the motion to deny passes, right? Correct. So, the motion to deny to be um the ordinance amending the zoning ordinance of the city of Sagenoth, Texas, regarding the regulation of carports. Um the motion to deny has passed, which means that the planning and zoning commission is denying uh or uh recommending the denial of the ordinance. Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, now if we can go to uh business uh from the city, please. Yes, Mr. Chairman. We would just like to present the project updates for the month of May as reported by our utility inspector, Bill Hurst. Um, so we're open to any questions, but these describe just general phases of where they're standing right now. All right. So, um, we can, you know, we can just kind of go through these. Um, Alpine at the Square is the new apartment complex north of, um, Five Guys in Cava and, uh, north of Walmart. And, Mr. chairman, they actually just

changed their name. Um, Ranch West. Ranch West, just for the record. Okay, got it. Got it. And, um, I've actually been pleasantly surprised. I personally wasn't super excited about apartments, but I think I mean, they did like really nice brick work and stuff. So, a couple of times I've driven past it, I've been like, "Wow, they did a arch on like every breezeway." And, you know, so anyways, I think it looks nice. Um, then we have the Basswood uh, pedestrian crossing. Uh looks like that is on final inspection. Um then we have Belt Mill Villas. Um man, they are building that fast. Phase seven of eight. Yes, I would say Mr. Chairman, I think for the most part um like you said, um some of these apartment complexes slash multif family um are pretty much near completion. Yeah. Um we have some other projects on the boulevard such as Blazing Hospitality um that is inquiring about their final punch list. So it's almost ready to go um and have some of those actual tenants within there. Um Falcon Distribution is currently completing some of their storm drain. Um and they're about 40% complete. We don't have a date as of yet. Um, but the other obviously more pertinent is Nolles's reconstruction. I know that that is affecting everybody. Um, but we have made really good progress. I don't know if y'all have driven by there. Um, but we are pretty much 90% complete on Mcllora Woodrust and about 70 to 80% complete on Mcllora Longorn for paving and sidewalks and whatnot. Um, another really large project was the Miller Milling. They had recently made an addition, um, really great facility, really pretty. Um, and we actually got to tour that and open it, uh, with the

grand opening, and that was a really nice addition to an already nice building. Um, and of course, the library is another one that everyone is excited to see open. Um we don't have a date concrete date right now but it's it's really making progress and it's supposed to be I think within August September. Um and then Triricon has some ways to go. Um and then Wayside Middle School is almost done when it comes to those utilities. So I think for the most part that covers a lot of them. Um another notable one are the parks. um construction began and they are scheduled to be hopefully complete within August, but I know our parks board worked really hard to get those improvements passed and I think that it'll be really good facilities within that. Um but if y'all have any other questions when it comes to any of those specifics, we are more than happy to help or phone a friend. I've got a question. The Opal Lee part, where is that at? It's on Opal Street and Longhorn or Opal Street and Longhorn. Um it's a a smaller neighborhood park. Yeah. Okay. It's like it's a like a memorial park. Yes. Yeah. And then Brian Schwingler is also a smaller park that's neighborhood based. Do we know on Blazing Hospitality? I know that there was some back and forth on kind of the anchor for that. Like originally I think it was going to be um Tim Hortons and then I heard it might be Einstein Bagels. Now do we know that yet or we're mainly concerned with the building and permitting and all that kind of stuff? I know that's the leasing aspect side. I think Mr. Dire can answer that because he's the co guy.

Blaz bagels at the end and then firehouse subs to the to the right of it. Great. Okay. Y just a liquor store. Is it a box liquor store or is it a bar? It's a box store. Yeah. And they have one um in Keller off North Tarant Parkway that I went to whenever I saw that it was coming in there because I just wanted to see like and it's nice. It's Yeah, it's a It's nice. It's like the little Fossil Creek liquor that we have here in the city. And I know this isn't on the current list, but Mr. Chairman Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Just because um recording purposes, just want to repeat that. That was Lorland, um, Einstein Bagels and Firehouse Subs. That will be within those Blazing Hotels. Yes. Yeah. Thus far. Cool. And then I know you know mainly we've had the belt mill um multif family and belt mill single family come in front of us but I have seen that their like planned commercial has been moving forward and um they announced that an EOS fitness will anchor it which is a nice ups you know that's proposed and so hopefully that will come in front of us. Yeah, Mr. And I will say we haven't received any concrete plans for any of those and some of those may may change may change. Um they just have to follow the development plan that's in order and if not uh of course it may very well come before y'all. Um but I just want to let you know that it's not something concrete for sure there are discussion. Yeah I do a lot of research maybe too much sometimes. Okay. Well, um I really appreciate that uh business and that is the staff report as well. Um now I believe we are going to go to do are we doing executive session this evening? Um okay, got it. And so if that is all for

this evening, I think I'm going to call this meeting of the planning and zoning uh commission for the city of Sagena to adjourn um at 7:39 p.m. Um do I need to make a motion for that? Yes. Okay. Do I I'm going to make a motion to adjourn the meeting at 7:39 p.m. on Tuesday, June 10th. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor say I. I I I All right.