Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Mr. Chairman. Yes. You okay? No, not yet.

Give us one second. All righty. We are going to begin this uh meeting of the city of Sageno Planning and Zoning Commission at 6:07 p.m. I'm going to do a roll call to establish quorum. Uh chairman, please two, Benjamin Guty here. Um vice chairman number four, Melinda Julian not present. Uh, member number one, Vivian Anderson,

present. Member number three, Peter Drole, is not present. Uh, member number five, Valvesus, present.

And we do have a quorum. Uh, now I'm going to go to section 1B, audience participation. Um, if anyone in the audience would like to speak on any of the agenda items tonight, uh, you may please come up to the microphone and state your name and where you're from and we would be glad to hear from you. Um, we will also have, uh, time on individual items to speak as well, but if if anyone wants to come speak now, you may. Okay. And then I'm going to go to 1C, approval of the minutes from the previous meeting. So this was the meeting from January 13th. Looks like we had five members present. Uh does anyone uh on the board have any notes to make or do I have a motion?

I'll make a motion we approve. I'll second that.

Thank you. Member Anderson, if you could vote on the screen. All righty. And the motion passes. Now we're going to go to section 22A, discussion and action regarding the nomination and appointment of a vice chairman. So um tonight we have a a light quorum. Um should we still discuss that or Yeah.

So Mr. chairman, you'll have two options. If y'all wanted to go ahead and decide based upon yourselves, you are free to do so. Um, right now we don't have a vice chairman as that position resigned. So, just keep that in mind. And if you'll wanted to just forward it to the next meeting, we can do that as well. But it's up to y'all. Okay. And still on this, I cannot make a motion. Correct. on on appointment of like I know on regular items I cannot make a motion on this I could nominate someone or no. Okay, got it. All right. Well, does either of y'all feel like you want to be vice chairman?

U Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to um move this to the next session. Sure. Okay. Do do we have a second? I'll second that.

Okay. vote to table that till the next meeting. Member Anderson, could you vote on your screen? All righty. And the motion passes.

And Mr. Chairman, um, it looks like we have a large public audience. So, I'm going to make the recommendation if we can skip 3A and come back to it at the end. Okay. And go ahead and continue with 3B. Okay. Sure. All righty. So 3B is uh consideration and action regarding a proposed textural amendment to the zoning ordinance regarding modifying the city's permitted use table public civic and utility uses.

Yeah, Mr. Chairman. So uh we received a request to add an existing um change the current permission within an existing use in our permitted use table. that being the philanthropic dash and or charitable use um to be allowed in the light industrial zoning that is within the clinic overlay district. Both applicants that are requesting this change are here. The current definition that we have for that use is defined as a nonprofit organization supported mainly by charity and whose principal function is the performance of charitable work. Um both applicants receive a zoning verification letter. We reviewed their uses and were uh confirmed to be within that use definition. In your packet, we do also included we did also include a map of our zoning map that outlines where both suites that the applicants uh would be intending to be uh operating at are located. So today this request is presented to the planning and zoning commission to make a recommendation to amend the current use which is currently not permitted within that um zoning district. There are three options in which the zoning commission can address this by one is by recommending to council to add a P within that spot right right under light industrial that would entail that any applicant moving forward or people that fall under that use would be permitted by right meaning they would not they would not have to come before the commission or city council for review. The second option is to add an S for specific use permit. That would allow the planning and zoning commission and city council to review every one of those cases on a case-by case scenario. Um add stipulations if needed and approve them through that

way. And the last option would be an amendment to the overlay district. In this case, the clinic overlay district or medical overlay district, sorry. um that would entail making an amendment to the current permitted and prohibited uses within that district. So it could be made permitted through a specific use permit for the philanthropic use within that overlay district. At this point, we're open to questions. As I mentioned, both applicants um are here present and we do have a lot of audience participation to speak on both items. Uh we have Marbby B Mlendon and Cheryl mix uh for both of those requests. Yes.

And Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to add um they specifically requested it within that light industrial zoning district, but at this time if y'all wanted to add it elsewhere, any other zoning district, y'all are also able to do that as well. Got it. So I have two questions. One, you you said that there's two two applicants tonight. Are they both going to be at 1,00 like where on the map it shows the 1000 block is highlighted? Yes, they would both be at that U building but two separate suites 108 and 10. Yes.

Got it. Okay. Okay. All right. So, it looks like we have uh several audience participations. I'm just going to call them up in order that they're stacked here. Um Mr. Mr. Sherman. Oh, if you could open the public hearing too before we get started. Sorry, I think the wasp of venom is getting if we wanted to also have the applicants come before to speak first. Speak first and then open the public.

Thank you. Okay. So, actually at this time I'm going to open up the discussion on public discussion on item 3B at 6:16 p.m. Okay. And then if we could have um the applicant uh let's have the I guess the first applicant come up. It's a little difficult here. So will either one of the applicants, Miss Marvy or the Y. Thank you. Then you can just come to the podium.

Okay. So yes. Hi. and then it should be on, but if it's not, make sure the green light is on. Hello. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. If you could just say your name and where you're from into the microphone because we have people at home that watch it and transcribe. Uh my name is Marvy McClendon. I'm from Chat and Chew.

Okay. And could you um describe to us uh what you're applying for? So, we're requesting a special use permit to be at 1000 Kennedy Lane as a food distribution food pantry. Um, I realize this is unprecedented. There's not been a nonprofit that's uh been in light industrial prior, but our organization is scheduled and uh we've been actually in Sagena for one year now uh in a different location, but high traffic and there's never been a complaint about uh cars or um loitering and we wouldn't alter the um the neighborhood or the outside makeup of the the building that we're requesting for.

Okay. Um, does anyone else have any questions for her? Um, they've already been operating. Do you have a name of the organization? Chat and Chu. Got it. Okay. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry. I did forget to mention the applicant had also sent us a bio of the organization if you wanted us to read it. Yes, sure. Sure. So, we also submitted 50 um impact statements um in the surrounding area that uh we serve and um and I believe signed some signed petition from our from the people that we serve in the Sagena area.

Okay. Um I personally don't have any questions for Miss McClendon. I I do want to hear staff read off the bio and then I want to read off the um the notes that we got. But while she's up here, do y'all have any questions for her? Oh, I missed the name of the organization that she is with. Chat and Chu. Chat and Chu. Yes, ma'am. Chat and Chu.

Could you just uh explain to us a little bit what the what is the uh daily activity? What is the operation look like for such an organization? So, our hours are Wednesdays and Saturdays 9 to 12. And we uh primarily have a client choice uh pantry and it's staggered. So, it's not u a drive up where you, you know, pop your trunk and and there would be cars parked one after another. Uh they come and get their food, they leave. Uh we do have some clothing that we uh provide. However, that's also um scheduled and it wouldn't cause any type of traffic in the area. And there's about a 100 spaces in Kennedy Lane right now. So, and we also have a letter from the owner of the of the warehouse saying he's in support of us being there as well as the other tenant. And what you mean by like the choice is that like they let's say I'm um somebody getting your services, I would come for my appointment at 9:30. I would come inside and I have like a shopping cart

and I would like go through and get my items and then bring them to my car so I'm not like lining up like you said popping a trunk. Right. Like I said, we we've been um on 530 South Sagen and that's a hightraic area and it's exactly what you said. They come in, they grab their items, and they leave. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. And it's by appointment only? No, it's 9 to 12. But they can make an appointment if they wanted to.

I'm good. Like I said, I personally don't have any additional questions for Miss McClendon. I do think for the record, we should have maybe like the bio read off. Um, thank you very much. If we have any additional questions, we'll ask you. Thank you so much.

Yes, just really briefly, they are a nonprofit organization serving single parent households, uh, survivors of um, domestic violence, people experiencing food insecurity as the applicant described, uh, by providing food resources that would be be able to be picked up at that location. Okay. And then the even though we're look so even though we're looking at this like 3B is one item but it's two separate applicants. I just want to be Mr. Chairman. Okay. Thank you. Um so we're not looking at this per se for these specific establishments. Okay.

It's more so the use itself. Got it. So it's not attached directly to these philanthropies or charitable uses. They're just examples of people that are wanting the use to be permissible either by right or by SCP. Y'all are just looking at the use itself on whether y'all want to add it to the permitted use table either by right or by SCP or not at all. Yeah. Um and then within the LI is specifically the zoning district that is affected for the people who are supporting this. However, y'all can also change it in other areas if y'all wish to do so.

Got it. Yes. Okay. All right. So, taking that into account is um could we also have this is a big packet tonight. Is Miss uh Cheryl Mix here this evening? Howdy.

Howdy, Miss Mix. If you could announce your name and where you're from into the microphone, please.

Okay. I'm Cheryl Mix and I'm with Donation House. We're currently in Fort Worth, but we're asking to move to Sagenol. Uh we're currently in a light industrial in Fort Worth and so we wanted to move over here and do more for the community. We have a lot of resources where we're at currently and y'all don't seem to have a whole lot of resources here. We're a little different than um Chat and Chew. We don't offer food. We don't offer money, but we offer everything else. And we are by appointment only. So they place their request through us either through Facebook or our um website or reach out to us through email. They place the request of what they need. We pull the items for them. They come and they pick them up.

Miss Mix, by everything else, do you mean like clothing or let's say I'm a single mom getting my first apartment and I don't have a washing machine or is like could you describe what you mean? At our current warehouse, we have clothing, shoes, household items, kitchen items, anything that's not large, like not furniture, not large appliances. Got it. Those items we find for them and then they go and pick them straight up from the donors.

Got it. Okay. All righty. Does anyone on the commission have any questions for Miss Mix while we have her? Oh, okay. Thank you so much. Appreciate you.

All righty. So, at this time, I'm going to All right. So, I'm going to read off um I'm going to ask the several people that wrote. So, I've already spoken. Miss Mix, I got yours, but we just spoke. Um and I am going to ask Let's see. Is Melissa Garcia in the audience? Would you like to come speak? Hi, Miss Garcia. If you could just state your name and where you're from into the microphone, please.

Hi, my name is Melissa Garcia and I'm here with Chad and Chu.

Thank you. And what would you like to let us know about um about why we should allow this use? I'm a recently retired veteran and currently a full-time student. I'm currently doing my internship with Channon Chu. During my time at Chad and Chu, I've seen firsthand the impact that they have on um single parents, on families struggling with food insecurities, and just overall anybody that they can help in the community. I have not seen it bring any kind of issues to any neighboring spaces, any traffic violations or um anything indecent. I do see that unlike other food pantries, they are um they connect with the people that they service. So, a lot of them are repeat visitors. They have their time slot. Nobody overlaps. There's never really like a crowded time. Everything is very organized and it just a very supportive environment.

I want to thank you for your service. So, I'm a veteran myself. Thank you for your service. Does anyone have any questions for Miss Garcia? Thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Is um Miss Carmela Garcia available? Howdy. If you could just say your name and where you're from. I'm a Carmela Garcia. I live in Sago and I went to Jew

and my husband passed away. I went to walk to General store. I get a uh bread and peanut butter. Yeah. I went, you know, sad.

I was walking and my friend Mary told me, "What's the matter, baby? You wanted me to pray for you?" I said, "Yeah." I said, "Going over the inside. They go get you some food. Can't you?" And so they gave me some food. Yeah. I went home. I start to eat. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your story. We appreciate it. Thank you, Miss Garcia.

Is um is Pat Oakley available or would they like to speak? Hey, I'm Pat Oxley, excuse me, from Keller, Texas. Thank you.

And uh I've known Marvy uh for several years and have worked with her and then seen the products of what she does by uh giving food to people in need, clothing in need. But most importantly, what she does is people come into the pantry, they personally establish relationship with them. And a lot of people don't have the opportunities to go out and just get things. But what she does, she takes the people in and she teaches them and stores them back into society. Uh, one of the things she does is teaches them when they come in the pantry to purchase food and how to buy and what to buy. And she also supports people that would be homeless because I worked with her on many cases where those people would be on the street had she not taken a personal interest in him got got them living space to live and uh teach them. One of the things she has put these people in houses, women in houses to get them back into society. And part of that process is getting a job, how to manage money, getting a car, getting driver's license if they need it, to put them back into society and teach them and educate them how to do that. And so it's this to me is a very uh beneficial thing for Sagenol. Yes, sir. what she does here and she's she also our church the Creek Church down the street supports her financially and a lot of the people in a church work for her work with her and she also we have a group called helping hands that come in and will help her update the houses paint the houses do things for at the pantry and just recently moved everything from storage unit into where she's located now on Kennedy Lane and so I think it's a strong thing for the this

community to have her in the presence do that. Thank you very much, Mr. Oxley. Thank you. Does Miss uh Sherry Thomas would like to come up and speak?

Howdy. Good evening.

You could say your name and where you're from, please. I am Sheri Thomas and I'm from North Richland Hills, Texas. I would just like to come to you guys and just let you know how beneficial it is to have Chatten and our group serving the Sagena committ community. Sagena can only be better from what we have to offer the people here. I mean there is clearly a need and I met Marvy a few years ago. I guess it's been about four or five years ago and I am just in awe at all the things that they do we do and all the thing ways that they help the community. I've seen so many people come in and I they're not really sure what to expect. A lot of people are downtrodden and just you know looking for a a hand out a hand up. And as Marvy has always stressed, you know, we help people because not everybody is just looking for a handout. Not everybody is looking to lay on the system and with the services that we provide with Chat and Chew, it helps, it teaches people to be responsible. I mean, we have a point system that when they come in, you know, they get a certain amount of points and it teaches people to budget and to be responsible. And so when they come in, you know, we treat them with dignity, you know, we don't just throw things at them or just make them feel less than. We make them feel like family and we pray for them and we love on them just as Jesus would have done. So um I think again that Sagena can only benefit I mean we're not causing any traffic hazards and no radioactive materials or anything like that. We're just people serving people and you know we have a little example here of some of the things that we've done and some of the things that we do that I would like to just

please feel free I guess that's all I wanted to say and just to Thank you very much, Miss Thomas. We appreciate it. All right. Um, would Mr. Charles Dent like to speak?

Howdy, sir. If you could say your name. Good evening. Charles D. Thank you. I'm with Chat and Tube.

And um, not a whole lot to say. Lot lot's been said. You guys have all the numbers that people that are served by Chhattenu. So obviously there's a need within Sagenol. Those are all Sagenol residents. And so you know that that proves that there's a need and I don't know if there's another service in Sageno that provides that level of uh to that need. Uh, and one thing I will say, um, hasn't been said yet is everyone that that's part of Chattton Chu, that serves with Chattton Chu, no one's paid. It's all volunteer. And it's all volunteer because people have a heart for it and they're serving serving and providing a need to this community. Um, you know, frankly, not everyone lives in Sagenol. So, they make the drive, they make the time, and so that the people in Sagenol who have a need can be served. And so, just want to point out this all volunteer basis. And um, so that's all that's all I want to share.

Thank you very much, Mr. Dent. Thank you. Does Alisia Grenada want to speak? I'm so sorry if I'm butchering your name. I apologize. Good evening. And it's okay. I'm so used to it already. Okay. I'm sorry. Mine too.

So, my name is Alicia. I'm here to support Chhattu. Um, just want to share a little bit my testimony. I am one of the single parents that they helped in 2021. So, I was homeless and I met uh Miss Marvy when I live in a homeless shelter in Dallas and I live in Bedford now and five years later I have dedicated my time my every Saturday of my the whole year is dedicated for Chad and Chu to serve the food pantry and whenever is needed. So, for the few Saturdays that's been closed, I've been missing it. I don't know what to do on Saturdays anymore. So I hope we reopen soon and uh so just want to share that how uh beneficial uh chat in is for Sagino because I strongly believe that this is a good thing that we uh we are here in Sagino. We used to have it in forward and to be honest I didn't know where Sagino was before and now like every Saturday I'm in Sagino and I tell people hey I know Sagino I know Hustlet sort of just because I just passed by them and now I can tell people about the big factory or what they do in there the flower thing that's where they make the tortillas and stuff like that. So, and also the food pantry is not the families that come and visit. They don't just visit for food and I've seen it many times. Next thing you know, we have ladies praying over and just meeting them and they come back and they share stories. So, we get to know them. They don't just come for food, but they come for relationship. And that's one thing that really I like the most because five years later, I'm still here. I'm stuck with them and I don't want to leave. Even if they want me to go, I'm going to stay with them. So that's all I want to share.

Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. Yeah, we have the world's largest grain silo if anybody ever wants to know a fact about Sagenov. So, all righty. Um, would Miss Kamaria Tyson like to speak? Hello. Howdy. How are you? I'm good. Okay, I have a couple things there. One thing I would like to say is for small non forprofits fun chairman. I apologize. Can you please state your name? Oh, I did it every time and I forgot it this time. If you could say your name into the microphone, I apologize.

Kamadia Tyson. Um, what I was saying was funding is hard for small non forprofits. So, the reason that we really wind up finding ourselves in like industrial use is because we can afford the rent. If we could, we would be in a different spot. So I think that is the biggest like thing that we can take into consideration. Um because we do have we do not have to pay as much as rent. We can have the people who are not who are only volunteers. We can afford things to do like that. Also I want to say for donation house is unique in the way that we do not have an application process. So if you need the help and it really like if you're like a middle-ass family like you never needed the help before and like times like this are super hard. It's like, "Okay, I just need you for a little I need some clothes for my kids just for this month or two until I get back on my feet." We're not like, "Oh, okay. Like, do you make this level of income or anything like that? If you need the help, right, then we're going to get it for you." And then we see that come back to us where we have volunteers and now they're like a part of our organization. They volunteer and do things like that. So, I think that's like the biggest asset that we can really bring to Sagenol, that community asset. When you need a leg up, like we're there to help you. So, that's really all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Tyson. Okay, so um I know I called up everybody that had turned in a form, but if anyone else wants to speak on this item, I'm going to close the public hearing unless y'all want to come speak. Got it. Yep. And then if you could please fill out a form afterwards. Thank you. If you could say your name and where you're from, please. I'm Brian McClendon. I'm from Chatt. Um they've said a lot of things about what we do. Uh some things about how we do it.

Um the why is what I would like to speak to you about. Uh Marvy started this organization way before uh we moved to Fort Worth. She's my wife. I'm retired military. and we would return, we would travel around the world. Um, in every pla base I was stationed, there was always a need to serve someone. And from that need, she made a point to reaching out. And we've done that. I've been in I've retired in 2010. I did 23 years in the Air Force. And we did it at every base that we were at. It wasn't called Chad and Chew. It was a person who saw a need and reached out and helped. And that's what we've done in Fort Worth and that's what we'll continue to do in Sageno if this is approved. The people that we impact with meeting that need are returned. You've heard a lot of testimonies from people who we've helped and now they're part of our family. Her two sons, Celia's two sons sit in the front office. Me front couple of front seats and we went on vacation together. So we're not just helping people, they become part of our family. One statement that young man over there said to me on a recent vacation to Galveston. He said, "Mr. Brian, you make the best stakes." Now, now that doesn't seem like a lot, but we've made an impact on a life forever, and that's what we do. And so, if you can take that in consideration, what we do is not just for an immediate need, it's for a lifetime. That's what we're trying to help. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. And Mr. Chairman, oh yes, I think we got one more. And if you can state your name in there and also fill out a form for Miss Susie when you're done.

Yes. My my name is Patricia Overs. I'm from North Richland Hills. I've been with Chat and Shu for years and years. I've known Marvy for a very long time. And I can definitely attest to everything that everybody said here. Um because we are smaller, we are able to have that personal relationship with people and they do come back and we do get to know them and we get to know their children as well. And we do different programs like we have a diff a Christmas cheer program for these children. And to be able to hand gift to these kids and see how excited they get, it's just it's amazing. It fills my heart. Um, yeah, these families have just been amazing and like Brian said, they do become our family and we are all one family.

That's it. Thank you.

Okay, so at this time I'm going to Mr. Chairman, just lastly, just wanted to let you know we did receive some letters, all of them in support. Mhm. Um for philanthropic and or charitable use.

Okay. Thank you. All righty. At this time, I'm going to close the public hearing portion of this item at 6:41 p.m. And now I'm going to open up uh for discussion amongst the committee at 6:41 p.m. also. Okay, everybody. So, um there are several options before us. Uh again, if the city will kind of let me talk through it. One of them is to allow uh philanthropic items like companies like this to operate in all light industrial across the city. The second option is to allow the partic these particular businesses to move forward with an SUP and future businesses could apply for a similar SUP. The third option would be to allow them in the medical overlay district and the fourth option would be to deny businesses like this in the area that they're requesting. Did I get that correct?

The majority of them. Yes. The the only the only um change to the medical district one that I would say is you essentially we have base zoning for LII. On top of that, we have additional zoning districts where you can add added regulations to it, but you don't necessarily have to. So, if you don't even want to mess with the zoning district for the medical clinic overlay, you don't have to, but it is an option. Um, you can either within that district say these are not permitted uses or it's a use that's allowed within the SCP just for that zoning district. You don't necessarily have to say if it is or is not allowed because that'll just be by regular zoning.

Got it. Yes. Um, but just want to put on the record just for legal purposes. We're not looking at this for these specific organizations, we're looking at this as a whole, just for philanthropic and or charitable use, whether we're wanting to allow that, like you said, either by right, by or not at all. And then again, if y'all wanted to add extra stipulations on that overlay district, y'all are more than welcome to, but not have to. And the let's say we did allow it by right. Would that only be an LI across the city?

So, it's up to you again on what zoning districts you want to amend. This app that the people that spoke before you are specifically interested in light industrial. So, if y'all only wanted to look at light industrial, if y'all do that by a P, again, it's going to be for any philanthropic use that we can categorize as a philanthropic and or charitable use. It's not just the businesses that we've talked about today. Again, we can't take that into account. It's only the philanthropic and or charitable use. Yeah.

So, that would be if you permit it by right, it's allowed anywhere within the LI. And if you do it by an SEP, then it's on a case-byase basis. So that would mean that any future applicants that are in the LI section would come through a specific use permit. So just kind of like you saw today, they would come to the PNZ commission and the PNZ commission would make a recommendation and then it goes to city council and they would have the final say on whether your specific application is allowed or not. Um, and that just allows the city count to have a little bit more of variety in terms of reviewing things on a case- by case basis, but it's up to you all to make the recommendation. Um, if y'all have any questions, feel free to let us know.

Thank you. Could Could one of the staff pull up a map of the city's current zoning? Um, just so we can see um the city light industrial and the clinic overlay district. I know if we pull up the zoning map, it's it's all on there. Should be pulling up in a little bit. Okay, there we go. Thank you. So, everything that is

L I will be a light shade of gray. Yes. And it's going to have um LI depicted on it for light industrial. So it's mostly within the center of our city. Um but on the very right on the bottom you see that medical overlay district that we were discussing as well.

Yep. So, um I think that you know philanthropic charitable businesses could could have a wide variety of businesses and although today we heard from two specific ones, I think I would feel more comfortable allowing it with an SUP. That way the city gets a little bit uh more of a say uh and knowledge of what's happening. Um cuz I if we if we say all philanthropic then anywhere within that whole area um anything could set up in a former retail business and um you know and with the SUV they're they have a little bit more oversight with not only PNZ but with city council and with the city. What do you all think?

I agree with you. I think I think an SUP would be best. Um, could you help? What what other types of businesses are permitted by a right within light industrial? It's a long list of a lot of different examples. So, it would be warehousing. Um, you could have some automobile uses as well. um manufacturing different types of uses. They they do not require they do not require specific use. Some of them may, some of them may not. Okay. So, it it's a very large graph. Um

I know a musical instrument business that's in that same complex, you know. Um it is a variety. Yes, sir. Question to city staff. Would these would these two applicants if we request it to go through an SUP, would these would these two applicants be required to file an SUP to come back? Correct. So, yes. So, today Yes. As a reminder, you're making a decision based off the use. I know. Yeah,

today no one can apply for an SU at all because it's not permissible at all. So, no one can go in there. So, if y'all were to go through the SU decision and city council agrees, um the next city council for the public hearing is going to be on May 19th since their May 5th city council is cancelled or will be cancelled most likely. Um, so then at that time they'll make the final decision based off your recommendation and once that occurs they can also have an application for that SCP on that same agenda as long as it's after that decision. So it would be in the May

okay agenda

because like like city staff is kind of you know that's how we heard how these specific businesses operate but not all philanthropic businesses are going to operate the same so some of them might be operating differently so I think that's why I feel more comfortable people doing it. That way it's allowed in those areas, but still it still has to be considered. That's kind of where I'm leaning towards. Um, and yeah, do you have any questions for the city staff at all, Miss Anderson?

No, I think I understand what what's going on here and and I think I think uh I have to agree with you that the there's such a broad number of opportunities under this that there needs to be an SU for it. Yeah,

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Okay. Um I would like to propose that we approve um including the charitable what is it? philanthropic and or philanthropic and or charitable use within light industrial um only which is what we're considering today um without looking at the other ones um but with uh stipulation that it comes before planning and city council for specific use permit consideration. Okay. Do I have a second? I second.

All right. We're going to vote. All right. And the motion passes. All righty. Then we're going to go to 3C. Public hearing consideration and action regarding an inquiry to add a new use to the permitted use table, a community home for the disabled. Yes. So, good evening chairman. This item is similar to the previous item where the commission is asked to modify the permitted use table. However, it differs in that this is an inquiry to add a new use to the table, specifically the community home for the disabled. So currently um we have a defined definition for this use but it is not included within the permitted use table. And the process to add a use is similar to that detailed in the previous item where you would have a recommendation. it would go before council and then the applicant would come before you. Um whether you specify that they are allowed by right,

allowed by SUP or not allowed at all. For sure. Thank you'all for coming. Thank you. Thank you very I should have made some sort of announcement. Thank you'all for coming. Did you get all the phones? I wasn't sure. Okay. All right. So, I heard I heard what you were saying.

So, for the use, we do have a definition in our ordinance. And I will let me go ahead and say that. So, a home that where not more than six persons regardless of the legal relationship to one another with disabilities and two supervisors reside and are provided with services consisting of food and shelter, personal guidance, care, habilitation services, and supervision in accordance with chapter 123 of the Texas Human Resources Code. So, that is the definition within our ordinance. So today the commission has the opportunity to assess and determine where this use is appropriate in which district. We have one applicant that is interested in bringing a sober home living. They specifically would request to be permissible in the single family zoning SF4 and this is not within any overlay district. I don't believe they're present today. Everybody has gone. Um, but and Mr. Chairman, I just do want to point out that this case is a little different because we have an added legal stipulation to these types of establishments. So, I will open the door for our city attorney.

Howdy. So the main concern here is being ADA compliant. So when someone asks, you know, I'm disabled, the city is obligated by federal law and state law now to to provide them of what they reasonable accommodations, right? And you guys have to act in good faith on that. So to that end, um something like this you would have to consider the city might be responsible to put um additional like sidewalks or ramps going

well for for this particular use for the community home for the disabled. In this case, for recovery um individuals with addictions, you would um probably any additional, you know, requirements or permits for this one, it's going to be offset. Um so depending if it qualifies under the code as community health center, then that right is by law. It preempts any zoning issues that may develop. So, for example, hypothetically, let's say one of these um uh entities or locations fits the rule or fits the definition for these one of these housing and it's located within a industrial use. Well, that's fine. They don't need no permits. They don't need any permission really from the city because it's by right. It preempts everything that you guys may have because it's by right by the state. That how the state wrote it in the code. It preempts everything unless it's some other law that regulates it. But yeah.

Okay. Um, does city staff have a recommendation on this or do we have any uh letters or anything that was turned in for this? Staff will remain neutral.

Okay. All right. So, I'm going to open up a public hearing for item 3C at 6:56 p.m. And if anyone in the audience would like to speak on this item, please feel free to come up to the microphone. And I'm going to close this item for public hearing at 6:57 p.m. And now I'm going to open it up for discussion amongst the council at 6:57 p.m.

Okay. So I guess one um the applicant isn't here, so I would have a significant amount of questions um for any type of um special use like this in a neighborhood. Um, even if it was a bakery in a neighborhood with eight employees, I would have a significant amount of questions. Um, I Yes. Please, anybody else speak? Um, is there a um restriction or currently in a in a um HOA community that would speak to this for that community?

Not I I know this particular neighborhood. It is um Highland Station and they do not have an HOA. Are there okay this is this kind of use is permitted in a industrial is that what I'm currently it is not within our permitted use table so it is not allowed by red in any in any way in any district all right

but it's preempted meaning what preempted means is that it overrides whatever rules or regulations the city may have So the state has created a special right for these uh type of homes to exist. So that law overrides whatever restrictions or regulations that the city may have against it. So they're allowed to do it by right. Okay. I know that might be kind of confusing. Even in my memo that I wrote I put make sure you is is that separate the two. So then why are we here? So that's the question.

So So the reason why you're here is because yes, you guys only defined it in your ordinance, but it's not even listed on the permitted use. So let's say for example, someone comes in and wants to do it and they meet the definition that the city has lined up in your guys' ordinances. They're still not permitted to do it here. Yes. They're not permitted yet. So, so basically what we're doing, what we have to do today is say we include it in our table. Um, and also do we get to define?

Well, it's already defined in your order. So, here we're just here to discuss if it's something you guys want to consider in putting it into the permitted table just kind of like we did with the previous um agenda item and then it goes on to the city council to decide yes or no. But we really don't have a choice. Yeah, but we did that one by we could have denied that one or we said that we wanted to approve it with an SUP. On this one, we're being told that the state has overrided it for these type of disabled sober living homes to be more clearcut, I think. Okay. So, we can't we can't deny it, but we have to put it

more clear um to have it laid out into your guys ordinance. So it would be modifying it to be in conformance with Texas state law basically. Yes. And in this request it's for single family for can we put it in someplace else? Does the state say where? So whatever restrictions you would have for example for a single family home would also have to be applied on this home and vice versa. whatever restrictions we have on these type of uses on this particular use has to be level across the board to avoid discrimination. So yes, so we can't restrict it to like commercial.

Not unless you're doing it the same for the same kind of housing. Okay. So if we said Yeah. Yes. Right. So if we allowed it, we would have to allow it in all residential in single family one, single family two, single family 3, single family four, multif family. If you define it like that, then that would where it would fit in into your guys. All right. But we're not allowed to say no, we don't like this use anywhere in housing in the city.

No. Yeah. because cuz right now on the ordinance it's very wishy-washy and very ambiguous where it would fall, okay, if at all. So, we're being we're being asked to we're being asked to basically put in some new legal ease language that is more defined because the existing city ordinance is ambiguous. And now with the state law, they're saying, "Hey, cities, you need to have your language more clear." Yes. Okay. Cuz Yeah. Um, so we're just we're just going to

comply with state law, basically. Yeah. So, Mr. Commissioner, we have a definition. She needs to get that back. We have a definition of this use within our definition section, but it's not in the permitted uses table at all. So, what you would be doing is adding it to the permitted use table is what I'm gathering from legal and then allowing it by right since it's already allowed by right in Texas for most statutes. And then if you have any more specific questions about how and where or what then Mr. Markins

is an HOA still allowed to decline a facility like this? Negative. No. Okay. It's by rent. No proceeds. So it has to be a P. It has to be permitted or um can we permitted not even with specific use? You could add specifications, but whatever specifications you add to it would have to be the same for the same um categorized for ordinary. I just because I'm not understanding what other type of business could like come into a neighborhood and like

do that. I mean, and have a so if I wanted to open up a psychiatric hospital in my neighborhood and say, "Hey, I have four bedrooms. I can put a bunk bed in each one. I'm gonna have a psych hospital in my neighborhood. The state is allowing that now or but where we would have to put the same restrictions on the psych hospital as we would on the sober living as we would on the halfway house or the the I mean I could list all kinds of things. Um this has a very specific definition and that's why it's needed to have it be more cured. Okay.

Okay. So having it put on your guys uh plan would just solidify where it's at um in the law. Okay. Staff, if y'all could just tell me exactly what to say because I thought that this was a specific business, specific somebody that was coming trying to open up something in that address. I did not know that this was us like updating something to comply with state law. Like you know what I mean? like this pack like the way that I cuz I looked at the agenda last night. I thought that Yeah. I thought that this was like a specific thing for that one. You know what I mean? So, it's kind of the same as the previous

item, which we're not going to talk about the previous item because we can't. But the concept is that we did have someone come before us to apply for this. Mhm. And then we notice that our permitted use table is not in conformance with Texas state law. Okay, now I understand. So we need to the performance or the table needs to comply with state law. Period. Okay. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, uh Okay. So, it sounds fairly simple. I mean, do I have a motion? I mean, we just need to Yeah.

I move that we recommend um adding new use permit permitted use to the table for community home for the disabled. Is that adequate? That would be one part of it. The second part is whether you're permitting it by right in what zoning districts or all zoning districts. So you can specify which ones are. Okay. Can we do an aside here?

I would guess that the state law is all zoning districts. I mean if if somebody wanted to open up in the town home or in the mansion that it's by state law. So in all zoning districts added to the pro. Well okay. Do I need to start over? Probably just to make it clean for for the folks down in Austin. Howdy. So, you may have to help me here. I um So you make a motion and then you're going to read that we make a recommendation

to um add permitted uses um table for community home for the disabled uh to our um tables um that that comply with state law in in all zoning districts. Permitted by right? Permitted by right according to state law. Okay. Do I have a second? All righty. Then we're going to vote.

It is what it is. It is what it is. Yeah. All right. And the motion passes. Now we're going to go to item 3D, public hearing consideration and action regarding an inquiry to add a new use to the permitted use table ice kiosk. Yes. Righty,

Mr. Chairman. This is a request to modify the permitted use table to add a new use ice kiosk. We received one application of a owner that is interested in adding this to their property. However, it is not included within our permitted use table and we do not have a definition within our ordinance. So today you can make the recommendation and assess where this type of use can be included in which district and whether you would like it to be permitted by right by SUP or not permitted and we do have the applicant present and they have a presentation.

Okay. And then Mr. Chairman, just to add, um, just as previous, this applicant is requesting to have this allowed specifically in the community commercial zoning district, and they're also within the Sagenol Boulevard overlay district. But again, we're not looking at it as this specific applicant. We're looking at as a whole, just ice kiosk in general as a permitted use.

Okay. All righty. So, at this um do I have the applicant come speak or do I open it up for uh public? Okay, I'm going to open this up for public meeting at 7:09 p.m. And then if the applicant would like to come speak and introduce yourself, please we have a presentation. So, I'm going to open this up so that we can follow it. Yeah, if that's okay. Yeah, I just have it. Okay. Because Well, I'm going to use this clicker, though. Correct. Yes. Okay.

And your name?

Yes, ma'am. I am um Jennifer Craraver. This is Scott Craraver, my husband. So, good evening. Thanks for having us. Um, we um are here for a special use permit um to add an ice kiosk um to our property that my family has owned on Sagenol Boulevard, 345 to be exact, um since 1958. This is a use that is not currently defined in the city's zoning ordinant ordinance um and it's not explicitly permitted but also not prohibited. So however there have been two identical machines that um are operating one was operating within the city and one is currently operating within the city as well. Um, and we have been directed by staff that we need to apply for special use permits and a variance to get us where we need to be. So, that's why we're here. Our goal, our goal tonight is to um not challenge the city, but to better understand why we're here when we when this type of um kiosk has been allowed in the past. So, um it has a low impact to the community. Um so, we're just trying to get um clarification and also get it approved to move forward in the process.

Yes, ma'am.

I got to do this one, not my computer. There we go. So, as I mentioned, the property um has been continuously owned um by our family since 1958 when my grandfather purchased it. Um when prior to his um death, he actually um deeded the property to my grandmother who owned her own business on the property um for several years. Um we also had another business there that rented from us for many years. Well, actually two, a saddle company and then also um a paint and body shop. Um both and we also had some rentals on the property. Um it does sit um on the boulevard. Um it's approximately 2 acres. Um and again it's says it's under private ownership and that is um owned by our family. Um small businesses as I mentioned um were on there. My grandmother um was a single mom. This is my opportunity to brag again for my grandmother, so I'm going to use it. Um, she was a single mother of three boys um who moved from Mississippi to Texas with her husband to um prosper and to also move into a better um environment which was um actually um not discriminating against the people that we brought with us and our family to um Texas. But um she had her own business. She um had a laundromat and she was very um very well known in the city and she did a really good job, but then we had some flooding issues and so we ended up tearing the building down. Um again, we are requesting approval for an ice and a vending machine here. This is not going to be the only one that our family owns. Um, this would be the first

one of hopefully um, many that we own. Um, and the reason that we want to put this ice um, and vending machine is because number one, we own the property and we don't want to have to rent, which we will in the other cases. um unless we purchase a property. But um we have three special needs kids in our um family and we want them to have something that they can do um as they get older and they can prosper on their own. So I'm going to let my husband talk now.

Once again, my name is Scott Craraver. So on this it's uh what we've looked at the propose use uh the ice and water vending machine. It's a self-service low impact use uh no staffing required uh minimum traffic generation um provides essential daily service. I met with the chief building official Chris Dyer up there. We walked the property. You'll see you should have it, you know, packet, but you'll see where we decided to where we're going to propose to put the machine. It's in the front corner of it. Uh, and there it is. There's the concept plan right there. So, we put it up there. That way, you know, it's if we decide to develop the rest of the property, then that's not in the way.

Yeah, you'll have all that in your packet. Anybody got any you got any questions while we're going through this that part? It would be close to the corner of West Northern Avenue and North Sagenol Boulevard. Yes, sir. That is correct. And how I don't maybe I'm how would would they pull up from Maine up up to the this little overhang here? Like would they pull up on Maine and get the ice and water and then kind of pull off on you know how there's like um like a pullover lane on Maine kind of thing or would they come behind it?

The goal is is to have what I talked to with Chris the goal is to have parking spots in the front of it. Okay. That way they're not pulling through there and all that. So the goal is to have parking spots and they agreed that there was plenty. Uh like I said the plan deep detailed plan site plan shows the exact placement of the proposed structure right there on the corner just like you said. Uh you can see the defined driveway access existing gravel and concrete driveways how traffic can enter and exit efficiently if we um the placement keeps the structure tight to the roadway minimizing internal traffic and preserving the majority of the property. Yeah. Does this have a pointer? Like a pointer like a red dot?

Yeah. Can you Oh, it's Yeah. Yeah. The laser isn't doing it. Oh, you'll notice it on the TV though.

Yeah. Well, I just wanted to point out also there's a gravel road that comes off of Northern and that was we had some um rentals in there that have been removed. There's still a gravel road. We have it blocked off right now just because we have some random people that are are going in there and parking. Um we we have some things there because we're just trying to still clean up the area. We're going to pull out some trees and and do some other things in there. But um there are already existing parking spaces um from when um our shop was there as well as um Hills Paint and Body Shop. They had some parking spaces that were already there. And so those same parking spaces would be utilized for this as well.

Okay. Yes, ma'am. Those are on the property as opposed to on the street. The the vending would be on the property. Yes. Actually would Oh, the parking would be on our property also. Um just in front and off of the street. Yeah. It's just not showing it on this little drawing here with the trees, but there is parking spots there. I'm I'm now that my memory's joged, I'm remembering. Yeah.

And we would um we would also um put a platform there for it as well. We would not put it on the ground. You can put these on the ground, but that's not going to be our goal. we would put it. Um I actually think that there's a picture of one that um shows if you see that top picture on your concept plan um where it has those red pylons, we would do something similar so that no one would run into it and it would be on a um a cement platform. Yeah.

Okay. Um then go in a little bit more.

Uh so with the traffic impact comparison, the ice and water vending two parking spaces, there's we can get more than that. You know, we're looking at, you know, one to three minute dwell time. Uh self service, no staffing, like we said before, low intermittent trips, minimum sight circulation. Um typical small retail 10 to 30 parking spaces 10 30 minute dwell time staffed operations continuous traffic flow internal circulation required. There's the machine design and the footprint of it. This is a bigger machine. They've got different sizes. Uh but we she's actually going to go over that part. So I'm not going to go over that. Um, as mentioned again, there's no ordinance explicitly per permitting or prohibiting this um, use. So that's why we're here. Um, there the staff has directed us to seek a variance and the requests arise from lack of um, defined classification. Um, in addition, um, as mentioned, there was two similar uh, water and vending machines. One is still in town. It's a smaller machine and it's located um in the parking lot where

it's by Taco Casa. By Taco Casa. Yeah. Mhm.

It's a smaller machine and it it doesn't produce as much. Um and again, both of those had been approved um prior by prior administration. Not sure if it's unclear. It's still unclear whether those were applicants were um required to seek a variance or if the staff um that was here at that time u made an exception. Um so we're just asking basically for um equitable treatment and classification. Um does the current process differ from the past approvals? raising the question of consistency. Administ administrative discretion appears to have been used previously, but um so should we require a variant? We're not sure, but we just want to move forward in the process. Um it does take about 2 months um from the time that we uh purchase this um machine. we would be p purchasing it from Twice um the ice company um but it would become our property. So if we do decide as a family that we want to develop that property into something else um which is is not something we want to do right now but if we decide that we want to um we could either leave it there or we could move it. Uh we we have one by our house that was just moved two weeks ago. we watched them move it because obviously we're in this process and um it just a crane comes in and picks it up and removes it or it can put it down whenever they deliver it. Um they did do a um report of some machines that are close by in proximity to where ours would be within the Fort Worth area. Um they did a Bucksen report and it did show that um it's projected to have over 26,000 annual VINs. Um, and so it it would be widely used, easy access

on and off of the boulevard. So, um, it's a it's such strong customer value and and demog demographic. As you know, there's a lot of cars that drive up and down the boulevard every day. So, um, again, a responsibility would be as our private property. We're not leasing it from anyone. Um, we have long-term ownership. there's no obligation to develop immediately. As I mentioned, um we don't have to develop. We had it on the market for a while. Um my uncle passed away during that time and we decided as a family we were not going to put it back on the market. Um and so it leaves it open for us um for some flexible use for the future. Um and then again closing just um appreciate you guys uh listening to us and ladies um listening to us and um just asking to utilize the property and in which you know it's already been allowed um we just like to move move forward in the process and get started. So any questions I'm happy to answer.

I have one question before staff speaks. Do these come pre- um decorated like with the the decals and stuff on it or are y'all going to put your own specific branding on it that's you know like whatever cuz you mentioned that you want this to become like maybe like a little family chain of them that you have. So, are y'all going to put, you know, Sagenov family ice or whatever, you know, your family on there? Um, or is it going to be twice the like what we see on the pictures?

Yes, it will be um what you see. Um, there are some modifications that can be made obviously for a price for us. Um, there's a a a regular awning for instance that comes um with it that's just a blue awning that goes over the front. We would really like to have the the nicer looking one which um was on one of the slides um with the you have it I believe I think it's called a top hat. It's the one with that. Um I just think that's a a better option. It's it's lighted for during the um night people that come during the evening times because it's open 24 hours a day so they can come there and get ice. Um it also comes with a shoot. This is the biggest one that they offer. So, we want to make sure that we can um provide enough ice that can keep it sustainable and it has a chute so people can put it right into their ice chest if they would like or you can do bags either way or fresh water. Um low the maintenance would be taken care of by our our family. Um as mentioned too, it is um our property once we once we purchase it. it's not um something that they can come back and get from us later. There are people that sell back to Twice the Ice um as if they retire or they sell it um moving forward. There are people that have done different things to the outside of them. If you've ever seen the one, there's one um right off of um Jboro Highway. Um, if you know where the Olsen's fishing um place is on the corner there of uh I think it's Robert's Cutoff and 199, they actually put brick around theirs. Um, we used to own a brick manufacturing company in the city of Sagenol. So, I'm sure my my dad would love to do that. Um, I don't think we will. We'll probably make it look just like this. Okay.

Um, so that's a great question. Y Okay. And on somewhere on there it will have like just you know who's the owner, contact them from owned and operated by you. Yes. And could you explain like what are the typical uses for these? Like I know at like the Sunshine herb store like they have like the water thing where you can go get like you know your healthy water and then um but you know is it like backyard barbecues like fishing like you know like what what are the typical uses that people are going to be you know driving up for kind of thing just their everyday household. I'm having a grill this weekend and need a bunch of ice like

I think that's a a very valid and great question. Um I in the research that I've seen a lot of people um especially early morning um construction workers, truck drivers, people like that that are used to filling up their um ice needs on the way out to work. They they utilize it. Um obviously um one of the the the biggest times of the year, Fourth of July, when people are going out and they're um celebrating family events, graduations, any of that. I think for the value that you get when you go into um a store where they have a small uh freezer that has the ice bags in it, you're getting a lot smaller bag for a bigger price. And this has a more valuable um offering. So you can get um a lot more ice for less money. And then fresh water as well. There's a lot of people that still use fresh water that they can just do their real refillables. So

And you're not having the plastic waste. That's right. And recyclables. For sure. Absolutely. Great question. Does anybody on the commission have any questions for our applicants or do we want to let them sit? I think we we can move on. Thank you so much for for that and I I did have same concern as you. Um I know we have the other vending out there and I was wondering when I saw this one, you know, why we have to deliberate on this. Um does this does city have really we have I do we have to close it for public and then start asking you questions? I'm so Yes, because I don't have I just didn't want to stick to but I do have information on the one that that moved out. I can allow that.

Okay. No, it's fine. Or I would answer it. It's fine. Yeah. Okay. You want me to? No. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We did want to clarify. Okay. Okay. I'm going to close the public hearing at 7:28 p.m. for now and then I'm going to open up our discussion at 7:28 p.m. Okay. Sorry. I'll go and you tell us what you want to Yeah.

Yes, sir. So staff did want to clarify on the two kiosks that were mentioned that are already operating within the city. We staff determined that they were um classified as retail. So they were inappropriately classified in another use. I the ice kiosk does not fall into any of our permitted uses. So that is why today we are here proposing that we add it and that a definition is also added. And then that makes sense. Thank you.

Yeah, it it does make sense. And then with the Sagenov Boulevard overlay district, is that the reason why? Because I know that from what y'all the city council did this Sagenol Boulevard overlay district before I came on to PNZ 3 years ago, but from what I understand about it, it was to like make a more uniform like signage and kind of appearance of Sagenol Boulevard. So is that is the is the signage is that why they're having to come to request or No, sorry. No, Mr. Chairman. Um, like Maria mentioned, yeah,

before it slipped somewhere essentially is what we think. Unless So, it's either two options. We looked with the building department to see if they had a CO for one of those establishments, specifically the one um on the Valero Takasa. Yeah. Yes. Cuz the other one is gone, right?

Yes. So, we didn't look into that one. We looked into the other one that's existing and currently in use. And what we found was that some time ago somebody signed off on that CO and at that time zoning verification was done by that individual so it was all in one house and so they established that per the application it looks like they classified it under retail. Now I don't know I wasn't here either at that time so I don't know if they maybe had a different definition of retail at that time. or if he just considered the category and did that instead of the permitted use. Um, I can't specifically tell you just because we weren't here. Um, the chief building official also wasn't here during that time, but that's just what we found from our research and assumptions. Now, today um when they came before us a couple weeks ago, the reason why we could not sign off on a CO or the zoning verification letter is that legally it's not a permitted use within the permitted use table. So, we couldn't find a definition that closely fit this description of the establishment. So legally we just could not allow it today even though it was allowed

by accident elsewhere.

Okay. Got it. Yeah. Well, and I know sometimes cities uh well, you know, definitions change. Um whenever I first heard the term mixed use like 20 years ago, I thought that that was like offices above with like a cafe below. And then now I found out that mixed use also includes a gas station with a drive-thru fast food place. So yeah, m the definition of mixed use has also changed too. Okay. Um so uh one other question cuz I know we we made a stipulation beforehand. Although this business is before us, we we're not we're looking at ice kiosks being added to the permitted use table. Are do we have the ability to say we can if we want to we can add a business like an ice water kiosk within community commercial and neighborhood commercial but outside of that they need to file a SUP or you know what I mean like are or are we saying in the whole city or Yeah.

Uh Mr. Chairman so yes this is we're not looking at this business for this application specifically. What we're looking at today is the use itself. So whether we want to allow an ICE kiosk

wherever within the zoning districts that we have established. So that's for variety of residential and then we have neighborhood commercial, neighborhood mixed use, community commercial, community facilities, light industrial and heavy industrial. So if you all decided today that y'all wanted to include it within just NCC, y'all are allowed to do that. Yes, sir. And then um again repeating your options, you have permitted by right, you have permitted by an specific use permit, and then you additionally have the overlay that you can add extra stipulations to, but you could also just look at it as just straight zoning. So those are a couple of different options that you'll have.

Okay. um also pulled up the section of the permitted use table and you can see where it is sectioned off by residential, non-residential and within that you have all of the zoning districts.

So looking looking at this and hearing this business, I think it's a business that um Sagena residents would use and get benefit from. I do think that we should talk about where in the the different types of districts that it's allowed because like I just used as an example community commercial and neighborhood commercial, but like if you look at some of the neighborhood commercial, it's like really like it's neighborhood. It's like right up on neighborhoods and often times that's used Thank you for pulling up that map. Often times that's used as kind of like a catchall. So like the one that's up by Basswood Crossing, that neighborhood commercial. That's actually their HOA amenity site, you know? So that's not even like a free like open land. That's like where they have their neighborhood, their neighborhood pool and their little house. But where Red Community commercial is, I I don't see personally a problem with it, but the landowner wants to have it.

And Mr. chairman just additionally just because it's not an existing use we don't have a definition so it would also be adding a definition correct yes what what sorry definition for ice what an ice for ice okay do do we have a proposed definition

I have a generic one um just based off the conversations that we heard today um probably avoiding size seems the best um so poss possibly and this doesn't have to be verbatim. It could we could go back and modify um just general gist self-service machine or booth where people can buy ice usually located outside stores, gas stations or parking lots. Um I think that would generically meet all the needs of the use that we had before us. But again, it doesn't have to be verbatim of that. We you can allow us the discretion.

Yeah. and the an individual business would still have to come get a per they would have to go see the building chief. They would and make sure that they're following all their guidelines and like it's not if we say that this is now permitted. It's not like they're just going to start popping up all over the place like they have to Yeah. They still have to go through city things. Yeah. Yes. So, if they're allowed by right, they wouldn't have to go through PNC or city council at all. they would just get a zoning verification letter that says they're permitted by right. If you decided to do an SCP, they would have to come before PNZ and commission.

Um, they do have regulations for these types of establishments um for accessory uses and things of that nature that they have, but we would need to speak specifically to the building department to see if they needed to have any other one just because it's not a current use, right? Um, but I think it would just be pretty standard. Okay. Yes. Yeah. And then after us, this is still going to council because we're adding this to So this is a new So y'all make a recommendation to the city council and then the city council has the final say. Yes.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Got it. Okay. Does any of my colleagues have like I mean let's this is the time to talk. So what do we want to hear? um what is the regulations or requirements regarding um sanitation and cleanness and and um acquisition of the water.

So I don't know if we are considering that part today because we're actually just considering is it even like allowed to come. That's kind of what I was asking earlier is like they still would have to make sure that the item is safe and that they're permitted to sell food which is water to people. So even if we approved them or this use and then city council did, they still have a few other places to go get their their stamps and stickers and stuff. But I think today we're just considering do we want a an ice kiosk type of business somewhere in Sagena like at all? That's that's what we're considering today, right?

Yes, sir. Um, if we did permit it, um, trying to remember what you were saying there, does it still give the city oversight on the construction and things like that? So, if you decide to do permitted by right, it would be allowed no matter what within those zoning districts that you choose to have that permitted by right. However, they would still have to follow regulations if there are any existing to get their co. Okay.

So, it's not oversight when it comes to whether they're allowed or not if you decide to do permitted by right. Yeah. Yeah. It would be meeting certain standards or certain guidelines from this by the state if we have them. Yes.

If you have them. Okay. And we also don't have to say that it's allowed in all nape community commercial. We could just say it's allowed in the city of Sageno with an SUP. Here is the definition of what we say an ICE kiosk is generally and then anybody that wants to open up an ice kiosk files an SU. Or we could say it's allowed by right with this definition in seat community commercial and then they go through building and fire health all whatever. Yeah.

You think

I think um I think it's definitely something that we need in Sagal. Um, I drive by the other one over here and I see there's always a line, especially on the weekends when I'm going for my games in the morning. Um, people are crowded over there and so definitely something needed and thank you for for thinking about doing something like that around here. Um, I I would make a motion um to um include where is it? Adding a new use for in the table for ice kiosk. Is that it? And um I would specify community commercial um for it to be added in community community commercial. Um and what is the definition the general definition cuz we said that we could change the size of it but like there's like a general definition of what ICE kiosk is, right? So the definition that I just provided was just something that I've

made up right now just based off the conversation. Um but if you want to just in your motion you can say it could be similar to what we have and then just you know make some tweaks and look into it. Just the general gist of it though. Um, what I have is self-service machine or booth where people can buy ice usually located outside stores, gas stations or parking lots. It could be less than that or it could be more than that. Um, where you could just decide to let staff make that decision as well. So, you can also make a motion and then say what the definition that staff

provides. And then within part of your motion as well, if you want it in community commercial, you have to say whether you want it by right or by SUP. Okay. So, if you could repeat your motion. Val, are you considering um SUP or by I was actually going to ask him that.

Yeah. Um I am considering SUP um just because to reinforce the city's um ability to um have an an imput for example. I'm thinking for a business like this that will be off the side of the road and we all we all know how busy that stretch of the road is. Mhm.

Um the city obviously has um some maybe regulations or guidelines that they would provide for okay here is how much cars uh availability for cars to be close to the road or or interfere with traffic or things like that. Um and maybe sanitation if there are any regulations for that as well or guidelines for that. But uh so that's the only reason why I think SUP um for ice kiosk otherwise being in the commercial community commercial I really don't see any other reason. Yeah. Okay.

All right. So just re restart your motion. But so this is going to be a long one. So just go with me here. Go with me. So um so I make a motion to um approve the inclusion of the ice kiosk um as a new use to our permitted use table and ice being um the definition that's suggested um by the city and leave you with the discretion to expand on that definition as you need. Um and that specific that um inclusion would be in the community commercial uh zoning um with um specific use permit.

Do I have a second? I'll second. All right. All righty. And the motion has passed. Yep. Congratulations, y'all. Yep. Thank you so much. All righty. And now we are going to go to section 44A project update. It's always my favorite,

Mr. Chairman. Wait, we skipped 3A. We skipped 3A. I'm so sorry because we came to 3A I don't get to do my favorite part. It's a long one. Sorry you're not leaving here anytime soon. Okay, now we're going to go to last A public hearing consideration and action regarding a proposed textural amendment to the zoning ordinance regarding modifying the city's permitted use table, automotive uses, medical uses, and commercial retail and services uses of article 5 permitted uses of appendix A zoning.

Mr. Chairman. So, just as we've seen, we've seen a variety of amendments to the permitted use table, but brought by individuals. This application or this item before you is a variety of textural amendments brought by the city. So, as a reminder, you'll have seen this in the past, but we tabled it at city council and so it has been brought back. Uh the reason one of the reasons it was tabled was because there was an additional notification requirement legally that we had to do in order to notify existing business businesses if we decided not to have them as legally non-conforming anymore. However, we did decide to have them be legally non-conforming uses for existing ones. So they would be allowed by right to continue that. So when it comes to those categories that we're going to be discussing today, it's going to be automobile categories, commercial, retail and service, and medical. So we have three different categories. Okay. So just as a reminder, I know we've kind of talked about this. Um this was supposed to be the first item, so that's why I have it included. Um but just the general organization of the permitted use table. It is separated by residential on the left and non-residential uses on the right. In the middle, it has the type of land use designation, which would be that use that we discussed. And then we have supplemental conditions. So any added things such as requiring a site plan or requiring a detention plan um that's not specifically depicted in our regular regulations would be able to be added to that as well. just as a key to the table. The way we read this is the

zoning district is going to be on the top header and anything beneath that for that specific use. If we're looking at it as a line item, if we see a P, it is permitted. If it is S, it's allowed through a specific use permit, which again would go to P and Z. y'all make a recommendation and then it goes to city council and then the final decision is made or we leave it blank for not permitted at all. So I've organized this in separate phases so that hopefully it makes much clearer sense as we're going through. So the first category we're going to be going through is commercial, retail and service. The first component for the use is conventional store, I'm sorry, convenience store with or without fuel cells. So essentially a gas station with a convenience store. Um, with this component, it's currently allowed by right in neighborhood commercial and it's currently also allowed by right in community commercial. We are recommending that neighborhood commercial, these establishments aren't allowed by right in neighborhood commercial and then in community commercial. It would be allowed by a specific use permit. Essentially for neighborhood commercial, if you can go to the map, we kind of talked about this in regards to the areas where we have neighborhood commercial specifically here in Sagenol. It's very much more towards a budding residential. And so we just thought that in those specific areas having a gas station would cause much more issues in terms of traffic and other things. But we would be proposing later on in

the future to add a convenience store as itself because we do see the need for possibly a convenience store but not necessarily the fuel cells portion of it with neighborhood commercial. Within community commercial, we've seen a lot of applications lately for gas stations and they're currently allowed by right. And so if we were to change that to an SUP, then we would have more opportunity to look on that on a case-byase basis. So with that, I will open that up for any questions for that first portion or commentary.

Okay. So the next portion of it, that bottom half of this slide is changing specific uses to a different category. So right now, ambulance service, cosmetic tattoo establishment, massage therapy establishment, and pharmacy are all within the commercial, retail, and service uses. So, we just want to clean that up and change those to the medical category because in our opinion, they're more medical based than retailbased. So, with that, do you all have any questions? We're not changing anything on this portion at all when it comes to if they're allowed or not. It's just changing them to a different category.

Okay, that sounds good to me. Okay. So, sorry I I do have one question. So, they are currently in commercial retail, right? And service. Yes, sir. And services. Yes. So, we would just be changing them from that category to the medical. So, we're moving them from that category to medical. Yes, sir. I mean, I agree with it, but why why aren't they see why aren't they there now? Yeah. Why aren't they allowed to be in like commercial retail? It's not allowed. It's just the class. It's it's not if they're allowed or not allowed. It's just their classification of what type of

So essentially the entire permitted use table is just divided in separate little categories so that when you're looking through it, it's a a very long list. So it just allows you to more easily find something. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not going to be allowed in commercials. Good. Yes. It's just the category. Okay.

Yes. Okay. So, does anyone else have any other questions or commentary when it comes to that portion? Okay. So, then we're going to be moving to the next category, which is medical. So, again, we plugged in those four category or four uses that we just mentioned into this. And similar to one of our other areas where we had a recommendation from our legal council to amend our use our zoning district. So right now we have a category that is more restrictive in the community commercial portion and so the recommendation is to make all of the community commercial within the medical category be specific use permits so that we're not more restrictive in that other one. Does anyone have a question or commentary on that one? Okay. Right. So, those are the simpler of the items. Pretty straightforward. The next one is going to be making actual changes to a massive list. So, this is the automotive category. I'm going to go line item by line item and that way we can talk about it. And if you have any questions, feel free to stop me towards the end of each one. Okay, so our first one are auto options. So that would be somewhere where you can take your vehicle or um type like motorcycles, cars, different variety of what they would consider to be acceptable for them within the definition and sell them off for an auction. Right? So, we're proposing

currently it is allowed by SUP in the light industrial and it's allowed by right and heavy industrial. We currently don't see these types of establishments within the city. So, we were just proposing to not have them allowed at all within any of our zoning districts because we don't feel that it is currently a need that our citizens have been wanting in the city. A lot of our surveys and, you know, commentary when it comes to PNC and city council have been that they want to see more sitdown restaurants, more retail options and, you know, within the industrial section for this example. It would probably be better to have more manufacturing or warehousing types of establishments. So, that's why we have that proposition. Okay. Next, we have an auto car wash. Again, similar to the neighborhood commercial use, we currently the way that it's placed throughout the map. We don't think that it's necessarily something that is content to neighborhood commercial just because it abuts residential and in some other areas like you said it's where the HOA offices are and so current neighborhood commercial parcels don't really reflect that very well. Um, we would be keeping them as an SUP for community commercial and then proposing an SUP as well for light industrial and heavy industrial. And that was in looking at establishments like Fuel City or um we have another one I think it was MM repair that also has a car wash on site for their industrial use. So that would just allow it to look at it on a case-by case basis. Any questions on that one? No. Okay. So, next is auto parts and accessory sales.

So, that would be like an O'Reillies or somewhere that sells like tires or fuel, uh, oil, those types of things. And so, for neighborhood commercial, we're proposing to not have it allowed at all. in community commercial having that allowed by SUP and then we would not be touching light industrial or heavy industrial at all. Next we have an auto rental car and truck for neighborhood commercial. Again, similar um a lot of these neighborhood commercials are going to be the same um in terms of just compatibility. They're not really compatible with we have current NC zones

for a community commercial. We're proposing to have that by SUP. We had a recent I think we only have one auto rental within the city and that was within a location where we were a little bit afraid of possibly traffic issues and things of that nature. Um so just having it allowed by SCP we would be able to look at it on a case-by case basis. Next we have an auto repair garage. Again, NC not having it allowed at all, community commercial, and all the other ones would stay the same, which is light and heavy industrial auto sales, new and used. We don't have any dealerships within the city currently. I don't think that they're something that we currently have a need for. We live in the DFW. There's a lot of different ones. So, we're just proposing not to have it allowed anywhere within the city. Auto service station is the next one. Proposing not to have it allowed at all in neighborhood commercial, having it allowed by SUP on community commercial and keeping it the same for permitted by right in light industrial and heavy industrial. Next is auto service station light maintenance. um neighborhood commercial not having it allowed, community commercial having it allowed by SCP and keeping LI and HI the same permitted by right. Next is bus train station or terminal. Again, we don't have this use within the city right now. We're proposing to not have it allowed within NC, NMU, and community commercial. And NMU stands for neighborhood mixed use. And we would just keep it the same in light industrial and heavy industrial motorcycle sales. Again, we don't really see any dealerships of any nature here

in the city. So, we're proposing not to have that allowed anywhere within the city. Park and ride lots, we're proposing not to have it permissible anywhere within the city for the exception of community facility. And the only reason we would want to have that allowed there is our training grain. We obviously moved that from the high school to the park and so parking has been an issue and so last year we did implement a shuttle service. So in order to have that be permissible, it would need to be in the chart. Does anyone have any questions or concerns in regards to that one? No. Okay. Moving on to park and ride lots. That would be a parking lot where you can park and pay to park and then ride a shuttle elsewhere. Um, oh, I'm sorry, I just did that one. Parking lot commercial auto. Um, that one we are proposing to have in light industrial and heavy industrial permitted by SUP and that way if we have a specific case that may need one, we can grant it still. And that would be the same with parking lot, commercial truck. Last two are recreational vehicle rentals and storage. And so we don't see RVs here really. Uh they're larger vehicles. So they take up more space and that, you know, has more of a hindrance when it comes to other types of things as well, like aesthetics or, you know, just space in general. Uh you'll see them. We already have a lot of 18 wheelers down the road, so adding RVs to a specific place may cause some issues. So, we're proposing not to have those allowed because there's not a current need for that either. Opening it up. I know that was a lot to

any questions or concerns y'all may have or if y'all want to make any suggestions to any of these, we are open to making those modifications right now. I think I talked a lot the last time that this came forward and so I know why the city is doing this and the only couple of businesses that I had um kind of concerns about. They're still allowed by SUP. So yeah, I'm good with this. Um, like the city says, we are about to near full buildout. And so, as we go to having less and less available open land, and we're going to redevelopment, I think it it makes a lot of sense to um not allow some of these places by right because they can take up a lot of

valuable land. Yeah, I agree. And I I did have one quick question on the bus, train, taxi station. That does not include like a just a bus stop. Does that No, it wouldn't include that. It would be more so a bus station where there's a lot of buses that Yes. like a Greyhound or something. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm I'm concerned that maybe we're being shortsighted because what we don't see today may pop up at us tomorrow.

Yeah, that's true. But um so from what I saw on this, the only areas that we are kind of taking away at being allowed is neighborhood commercial, which um can we see another zoning map of the city really quick just to see where that is? Cuz I think most of the neighborhood commercial is already built. Um there's that. Okay. NC. So, right next to the park, the NC that's um in the middle, that is the uh senior folks place. Um that's right down the road. And then the NC that is right across the street, that's the Weldley Hadley Development Center that EMS ISD has. The one the NC that's down at the bottom of the park, that is the food truck park. Um, and then the only other NC that I'm seeing is there is a open lot across from Leadership Development Academy on Old Decar,

but the rest of it's developed. So, we're I guess we're taking these away from being used, but they would have to tear down like the brand new senior um center or the It's not a senior center. It's it's um memory care. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. That that is zoned neighborhood commercial. Like they would have to tear that down and build a bus stop or something or want to build a bus stop there. You know what I'm saying? Can we go back to the table, please? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. So, just want to reiterate kind of as the chairman mentioned, um we're pretty much on buildout. So, a lot of these parcels may have development now. So, it would probably be they're going to stay in business most likely, right? But now that we're entering potential buildout, it's very important that we focus on redevelopment. So when we do have on the boulevard, we've had seen a lot of redevelopment this year in this last year. So that's what we would be looking at. Um focusing on planning for the future, not just for today. And like we mentioned, neighborhood commercial is one of those caveats where a lot of it is filled out, but we do have some parcels that are still vacant. And so that would be applicable to those, but as well as the developments that are already established, if they were to one day sell or tear that down, then it would apply to them as well.

Okay. I'm not so concerned about the neighborhood commercial. We're light industrial and heavy industrial. We we are taking away um down in the bottom the parking lots, the commercial um RV rentals, RV storage.

Well, those are going to SUP, but then the the recreational vehicle and the um and the storage, those two, I think I think those should be for us. I think that they need to be sup. I I think we're being shortsighted because a lot of times in those facilities, they will change the manner in which they're doing business or somebody's going to come in and and take an um a warehouse and want to use it for something other than what it was used before. And I think I think those need to be uh su for both light industrial and heavy industrial so that we're not cutting off our nose to spider face. Those those properties um can change use much more easily and and we're just we're just saying no, we can't we're not going to allow it.

Yes, I understand um what you're saying. I just want to let y'all know. So, this is the permitted use table. She's going down. Um, can you start from the very beginning? Okay. So, this is the very top. Luis is going to scroll down just to show y'all how long the permitted uses table is. So, automobile is not the only category that we have. I I understand that.

And so, within light industrial and heavy industrial, there are still other uses that are allowed. So they would still have plenty of options if an owner of the land wanted to change it to something else. But if y'all wanted to change those to SCP, y'all are also able to make that recommendation. It's up to y'all. And if we're changing the use table, if somebody really really really wanted to turn their ware their heavy industrial plot of land into an RV, could they go before council and ask for a variance? Even if we approved this, it wouldn't be a variance. So the way that it works essentially is whatever you allow today would be the new regulations if city council approves it. Mhm.

But it's not a permanent use in the sense that you can never go back. You can always go back and if you have an applicant just like you did today. Um you they would be able to come and make their case and if you decided to add it back to a certain category, you're more than welcome to do that at that time as well. So, it's nothing where it's permanent, but it would be the law until we all decide to change it, right? And city council would take our recommendation tonight, too, and would, you know, look at it. So, what do you think, Val? Do you think on Cuz it's recreational vehicle rental and commercial RV storage, right? Those are the two.

Yeah, the two. The other one is also um I think you were trying to highlight the ones where we're not allowed anywhere. Um the other ones within this list would also entail auto sales, new and used as well as motorcycle sales. And I believe those are the only ones that would not be allowed anywhere within the zoning district that we're proposing.

Yeah. So, I'm not um It looks okay to me. Um do you want to make a motion to add to change those the recreational rental and storage to do you want to make a motion to change those to specific use? I'm I'm not entirely opposed to that at all. Okay. So, does that need to be a separate motion? So, if you wanted to make a motion for that, you would just make a motion and specify that. And if there is a majority rule, then that would stand. But if someone decided not to vote on that, then someone else can make a separate motion.

So it would be to approve this with just the uh stipulation to change. And Mr. Chairman, Rex Ren, I apologize. Before we make this decision, we do have to open the public hearing. Oh, right. Yeah. And that and that's is that if we're going to change something besides your recommendation or that's in general just in general because it is listed on the agenda as public. Okay. Do we have any other ones to look at after this? I don't Okay. Not today. We decided to phase them out so that we're not overwhelming um and looking at everything all at once.

I Yeah, I'm I guess I'm the same I'm the same kind of thinking as Val. I wouldn't mind having it be an SUP. I just I don't I don't know. I just I haven't thought about having an RV storage business before, but maybe maybe it would take over something that's empty. So, you know, there could be something that's not being used right now that could be used because of that. So, I don't know. Yeah. So, if and I'm fine as with it having an SU. So, uh if somebody want Well, hold on. We have to open We have to close this. Open up a public hearing. Have a public hearing and then

we're not opening public. All right, I am going to open this up for a public hearing at 8:09 p.m. Uh, regarding 3A and it is open if anybody would like to speak. All righty. And then I'm going to close the public hearing at 8:10 p.m. All righty. And then now, do I have a motion? I'm trying to figure out what I'm supposed to say.

Well, it's 3A and then so you would make a motion to approve 3A. You would read off 3A and then at the end of it, you would say uh with the stipulation that and then list off the two are um allowed in LI and HI with an SUP, something along those lines, I believe. Or you could put hi. What? Whatever ones you're winning. Yeah. Well, I um move that we recommend um 3A on the public hearing to um modify the city's public use table for automotive use, medical use, and commercial, retail, and service use. Um with the recommended changes with the exception of recreational vehicle rental and recreational vehicle storage commercial and change the light industrial and heavy industrial to S for um sub SUP re review.

And Mr. Chairman, I just want to ask um so you've only chose two of the ones where they're not permissible at all. Did we want to look at the auto sales and the motorcycle sales or just those RV ones? Those are the only those are the only those were the only two that were suggested. I person Yeah. Yeah. Those were the only two. Correct. Okay. Got it. All right. Do we have a second? I'll second that. All righty. Oh, we're going to vote.

I still can't believe I got bit by. Mr. Chairman, if you could cast your vote. Mine isn't on my screen. Just touch it and then Oh. Oh. I kept waiting for it to pop up. Sorry. I did the same thing. All righty. And the motion has passed. Oh, because I opened up that little Okay, got it. Okay. All righty. Now, um yes, let's go to four. A project updates. My favorite.

Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I'm just going to go quickly through the ones that have been added to our list since our last meeting. First one being the uh improvements on Sagena High School. We had a pre-construction meeting last month and they're currently working on installing a new water man for that property. Um, next we had a frontier settlement. We just held a pre-construction meeting for it uh earlier this month and constructions anticipated to start on the 20th. This is located at the corner of Old Decator Road in Macroy Boulevard. It's a residential development.

Uh, next is the reconstruction for Old Decater Road. Um, we had a pre-construction meeting earlier this year as well and the contractors working on the installation of concrete boxes and just paving for the east side of that intersection. If you guys have any questions, do let us know. But those are majority the newer updates. Yeah, I saw one of the um neighborhoods, mixeduse neighborhoods that came before us a while back uh started turning dirt at McLaroy and Old Decar. So, that's exciting. And the office park on Bailey Boswell is coming along nice. So, happy to see that.

Um I did have one kind of note question and this came up tonight in the meeting, but it came up last week on a call I had with the city manager. the the per the um the zoning map that we're using. I don't think it's updated. Okay. Because I found out that there is a piece of land behind my neighborhood that I thought was PD and I argued with the city manager about it. I was like, "No, it's PD." Like, I would know. I'm chairman of planning and zoning. Duh. You know, I kept telling him and he was like, "No, it's NMU." And I'm like, "No, it's PD." And then I came up to city hall and saw the map and I was like it's PD. And then I went and I searched using AI and I found that in 20 January of 2023 there were six parcels up and down mainly the western half of the city that were like office professional, community commercial, neighborhood commercial, plan development. There was like a bunch of them that were all changed to NMU. So, is there a way for us to get an updated zoning map?

We've been working on updating all of our maps. Okay. So, um that's actually I've already been requested the final version of that. Um so, they've been collected all of the ones as of March that we let them know. So, we should see those very soon. It's in process. Cool. Got it. Cuz I like Yeah, it was kind of funny. I was going back and forth with Gabe. I was like, "No, it's not." you know, kind of thing. Yes. In the future, if you ever had a question, you could let us know and then we'll have the proper one. But yes, hopefully uh within this next probably by May, we'll have that uploaded.

Cool. Okay. Got it. All right. Other than that, um do we have executive session this evening? Nope. Okay. So, at 8:16 p.m., I'm going to adjourn this meeting of the city of We would need to have a motion to Oh my goodness. I'm just going so fast tonight. Okay, so if that's all, do I have a motion to adjurnn? Do I have a second? Let me think about it. Yes, I second that.

All righty. Got my little voter thing up. All righty. And the motion passes. So, we are going to adjourn at 8:16 p.m. Thank everybody. Thank y'all.