City Council - Regular Meeting

I can appreciate it. All right. Please silence your devices. We're about to start. Silence your cell phones device so we can have a meeting, please. All right. I've got six o'clock. So at 6 o'clock, I call this meeting a second on city council order. Please rise for the pledges. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Honor the Texas flag. I pledge algiance to thee, Texas. One state under God, one and indivisible.

Thank you. Please be seated. Uh C is the invocation. We have Joe here. I don't see Reverend Rangel. Do I have a volunteer that would feel so moved as to do the invocation for us? Anybody? Audience, staff, council, anybody? Sean, please bow your heads. Dear heavenly father, we thank you for today. We thank you for this great city. We thank you for the staff and the leaders, uh, this community. Um, we are just so thankful that that our community is a safe place to live. um and that you bless our families each and every day. Uh I'm thankful for this this group up here that we get to serve with. Um I I just ask that you bless this meeting. Uh let us make the best decisions as leaders for the city, for the community, for the safety of our our citizens. It's in Jesus name I pray. Amen.

Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member Morrison. Appreciate that. Uh 1D is the audit participation. Uh if there's any item on the agenda you wish to speak on, please fill out one of these forms. Uh chief chief police has it over there. Uh you're allowed to speak on any item that is listed on the agenda. Uh we will have a couple of those going tonight. So please be a part. Um [clears throat] excuse me. One housekeeping issue. As you can tell, I'm recovering from a cold. I feel much better, but if I have to get up to cough and leave, council member pro Mayor Proin Paul Flegy will take over seamlessly. So I apologize. Let's go to consent agenda. 2 A, action regarding minutes of December 2nd. 2 B action regarding individual project order for Mroy. 2 C we will pull uh and then 2D action regarding economic development chapter 380 agreement with Riverside Builders and that is it. So I will entertain a motion for A B and D.

Mayor will make a motion we approve consent agenda items 2 A B E or AB and D. Valerie second. [snorts] Please cast your votes. Motion passes. Let the record reflect we do have a quorum full house tonight. Last meeting of the year. Thank you all for coming. All right. 2C. Uh Pedro. Uh good evening, mayor and council. Uh so this item was pulled on the direction of uh city attorney. So I'm going to pass it over to Bren.

I just wanted to provide a little more nuance to the to the motion. It's not just awarding the bid. We'd be awarding the bid, but we'd also be approving the mayor to execute the contract to sale subject to my final approval of the contract wording. Um, as I told Gabe, we're not negotiating the deal points any further. It's just the legal ease of the contract. It's, as you all recall, it's a lengthy agreement. Um, and also if if just for clarification, I don't anticipate this, but just so everyone's aware, and I say it publicly, if I'm not able to negotiate the final wording of the agreement, the council has the right to retract the award of the bid. Confir. Do I have a volunteer ready to make that motion,

Brett? Yeah. All right, mayor. I make the motion that we approve 2C with the stipulation that you're able to execute the contract per the city attorney's markups. Second. Thank you.

Motion pass. Thank you. Thank you, Bren. Moving on. Three presentations, proclamations. Gabe, what do we have this evening? uh couple on the city side and then we have a couple um some some visitors with us. Want to recognize all our um city staff and volunteers that made our uh parade a great success. Uh had a what I think was a record crowd. Um it's an all hands on deck type event. Police, fire, public works. Had a really good time. Look forward to to next year. Very appreciative of everyone's work. Also want to bring um folks to attention to the the Christmas lights that you see throughout town. Our public works staff put that up and maintain it. Um it's a it's a lot of work, a lot more to it than what probably the average uh person thinks. And um selfishly I live off of basswood, so I've enjoyed seeing the 12 days of Christmas. And this year

we've had consistent power. So, we have some generators there, but you know, it used to be like um the three days of Christmas or the five days, but it's all lit up. I'm very thankful. Um, one last note, want to recognize our chief building official, Larry Little. He is uh planning to retire uh next month. He uh has served the city almost 24 years. Uh was promoted to his current position as chief building official in February of 2019. Um, you you may know um in your discussions with Larry, he he and his family have some property in Missouri, very pretty country up near the Ozarks. He's planning to retire there, uh, do some hunting and enjoy the outdoors. Um, one thing I' I'd like to say about Larry is he is there's probably no one better that's a a staff developer. So everybody in the building department he has trained. Um most everybody that's an inspector I believe was stolen from public works at one point in time. [laughter] So Randy may have some issues but um want to want to wish Larry and his family the best. He's going to present later on on an item so you have a chance to talk to him. But uh like to give him a round of applause if we could. [applause]

[applause] [applause] Mayor, I'd like to say something about Absolutely. Go ahead.

Well, I've known Larry Little for a long time and he is definitely going to be missed. He's been a true asset to our city and always been respectful and helpful to so many of our residents. You may not always agree with Larry, but he will always try to help find a solution to the needs that are brought to him. Sometimes things work out and other times they don't, but he has always been someone our city can be proud of. Larry will be hard to replace, but I'm confident he has helped his fellow employees prepare to carry on and hopefully one of them can step into his role. Thank you, Larry, for everything you've done for our city and our citizens. And I hope you and Rhonda truly enjoy your well-earned retirement. Here. Here. [applause]

Thankfully, we'll get to hear from Larry later, so we can give him a hard time one more time before he leaves. Yes. All right, Gabe. What else? We've got Yeah, we've got a couple proclamations. I think you have the copy. Whoever you want to do.

Let's uh let's bring in the Eagle Mountain High School volleyball team. I think they're outside. Come on in. [applause] Actually, I should say the state champion volleyball team. [applause] [applause] [clears throat] Oh, and you got the the trophy and the medals, too. Outstanding. All right. I've got a proclamation and then I want to hear from some the school folks. So, excuse me while I read the proclamation. Whereas, Eagle Mountain High School volleyball team has demonstrated exceptional athleticism, dedication, and teamwork throughout the 2025 volleyball season. And whereas the team made history by earning the 2025 UIL Class 4 Division 2 state championship, becoming state champions. And whereas the team achieved this milestone in only 15 months since the opening of Eagle Mountain High School. Whereas the players, coaches, faculty, and staff of Eagle Mountain High School volleyball team have worked tirelessly to achieve these remarkable accomplishments and their dedication serves as a source of pride for our entire community. Now I therefore I Todd Flippo, mayor of the city of Sagon, in recognition of the outstanding achievements of the Eagle Mountain High School volleyball team during the 2025 season, do hereby proclaim the 16th of December to be Knights Day in the city of Sagenol. Encourage all citizens to celebrate the success of the Ingam Mountain High School volleyball team and honor their hard work. Congratulations, folks. [applause]

[applause]

It it does have all the the team's names on it as well. So, um, do you want to take get pictures? You want me to come down there for P? Yes, we can just sit down, but you can't see us. [laughter] I can't.

Huh? Oh, now they're moving. window. I apologize. Pretend you're

good. [applause] [applause]

Who wants to speak from the school? My name is Jerry Hollingsworth. I'm honored to be the superintendent of Eagle Mountain Sagon ISD. And I just want to say uh once again, we honored these young ladies last night at our board meeting. Uh but we can't say enough how proud we are of their accomplishments. It doesn't take uh too many searches online to uh get really negative about schools in 2025. And I want to tell you, come and spend some time with me. And I'll take you around our schools and you will find that they are filled with incredible young people. Young people who are accomplishing great things because of great teachers and great coaches putting them in a position for success. We are so proud of these state champions. They are not only outstanding students and outstanding student athletes, they're outstanding human beings and they represent the very best of this community and you should be oh so proud. So, thank you so much and thank you to the city. Thank you mayor. Thank you council for supporting these young people the way you do. We we're so grateful and blessed. [applause] Well, everybody's falling out. I want to recognize one last time our athletic athletic director, Brent, who is retiring. Congratulations, sir. Well done. [applause] [applause] And I want to thank all the school board and all the school folks for coming. Y'all appreciate y'all coming out. kids.

Anything else, Gabe? Is that what we got? All right,

let them clear out real quick. We'll wait for some doors to close and we will continue. We're going to go to 3B, presentation of update design options for a new animal shelter. Kim Dowy Hickman of Quorum Architects. Kim, come on up. I'll go ahead and start. Go ahead. Yeah. Um, Mayor, while Kim's getting ready to give her presentation, um, just want to start first Joe Stout, the chairman of the advisory board, is supposed to be helping her with this presentation. Then has an item right after this. Uh Joe texted me a while ago, so he's caught in traffic, but he is on the way, so he should be here shortly. And um since this uh item has uh been around for quite some time, the discussion has been going on for nearly two years. Um I thought I would uh or actually it has been two years, a little over two years now. And I thought I would give a little background to bring everybody up to speed on why we're here tonight still discussing this and and where it's come and and where it could go. But first off, um the current facility in the the animal shelter sits on 68 acres over off of Brenda Lane in the industrial area. The main building that operates uh the out the animal shelter is operated out of for the kennels and office space uh was built in 2006. It was intended to be a temporary building by construction and it is a total of 3,150 square feet. Um the there are multiple other buildings on that site that are used. Now building what we call building

number two is used for quarantines. It's about 700 square feet. Building number three is houses feral cats and is used as a EU facility. It's about 360 square ft. And there's two storage uh storage buildings that are store-bought 10x10 pre-constructed buildings and a metal ConX box that's about 150 ft of storage. You add all that together, they have uh access to 4560 square ft of usable space under some type of roof. Um there's a there's a I'm not won't go into all the the issues with that building with that site except to say that there's a number of things that uh are uh not economical to repair. Um the building is in bad shape. Have small uh dirt and grass wreck yards, poor drainage on the site, and poor air conditioning within the facility um with no true isolation options. So, in July of 2022, uh the council directed staff to contact uh contract with an architect for a needs assessment, and we found a a highly recommended firm called Animal Arts. Um that spent quite a lot of time here researching the city needs. uh met with the council with some council members, staff, shelter advisory board members and citizens and they recommended a facility made facility recommendations in July of 2023 to the council um recommending a footprint of 17,000 plus a little bit more gross feet.

12,500 of that is interior air conditioned space and about 4632 gross square ft of that 17,000 is exterior covered space including a Sallyport camps and outdoor kennel areas and wrecky yards. So they gave they recommended five cost estimates and they ranged from $12 million to $16.25 25 million depending on what largely upon what type of construction and construction materials were recommended or were used for those cost assessments. Um the needs assessment was based on a formula a simple formula of average daily intakes uh times the average length of stay and then you take that you get a figure of the daily animals and multiply that times the peak capacity of the shelter and that's where they came up with the numbers they did for that assessment. Um after that assessment was uh presented there was a number of things that have happened in the animal shelter world in their city uh including the adoption of a multi-et permit. We began a feral cap TV and VR program. Um updated the shelter management plan andworked with a lot of rescue groups and adoption groups to try to reduce the average length of stay as as much as possible. uh better marketing uh the adopted animals and working closely with organizations like Texas uh SPCA. Um we the animal shelter staff has worked very hard to maintain the shelter and maintain a good u healthy environment as best as possible. And they have in fact reduced the length of stay and kept it down to 29 days for dogs and 19 days for cats

[clears throat] throughout this year while maintaining over a 90% live release rate which is pretty remarkable. Also during that time frame there's been an increase and and a all-time increase in the number of what we call owner releases which have some have come to the shelter and others have just been dumped out in our parks or in our city. So there's a been a very high number which is continuing through this fiscal year of stray animals that are just loose in the city that have been impounded. So, um after that animal arts assessment, um the uh bond committee met and uh in January of 2025, after several months of deliberation, the bond committee comprised of 14 citizens voted almost unanimously, lacking one one of the committee members um voted the animal shelter replacement as the number one priority out of 21 different projects that they reviewed. Um, in February of of 25, the council voted to take no action on the bond election and tabled it and directed us shortly to do another needs assessment to update that. And that's why we have Kim Dowy Hickman here from Quorum Architects. So, she started in March of 25 working with staff, um met with council members, met with citizens, and came up with um some additional uh updated needs assessments and u cost estimates and actually went a little further than the original animal shelter uh animal arts uh shelter needs assessment and did uh produce some floor

plans that um outlines some of the options that she's going to discuss tonight. Um the you know her her uh all of her findings and all of her cost estimates include uh as many identifiable costs a total cost not just a construction cost but they include architectural design um uh all the soft costs furnishings and uh utilities the whole toll package. So, we've heard a lot of different comparisons made of other animal shelters around in the area and most of those are not apples to apples comparisons. They don't include all of those costs. Many of them only can only have construction costs in them. So, that's one of the things that maybe she can help clear up if there's any questions about any more of those. Um but also I'll say that on the land um we we have in included in her assessments or in her cost estimates the land acquisition which our staff has been working with local land owner to reduce those as much as possible. If we had gone out and bought property, just fresh property somewhere, which there's very little of in the city left, uh would have been quite expensive. And we were estimating somewhere originally around over a million dollars, 1.5, but the the land deal that we currently are negotiating with the with the land owner, it would be a land swap that includes some cash up to uh a maximum of about $750,000. So, all those are included. um in her estimates. There are also cost escalations including in her estimates beyond the current time period. So

you'll see for 2026 and 2027 there is a 6% cost escalation uh estimate in included in that. And I'll add to that there has been no RFP issued. Um there's no award of bids. There have no there's been no co uh money exchanged hands for architectural design. She has just done what is under contract with the city to do the cost estimates and they have we have not done a detailed architectural design or commissioned that or paid anybody to do that. Um, so, uh, the final the final key again to this was in October of this year, the shelter advisory board met with Kim. She presented plans to them and they voted to make a recommendation to the council, which is uh, you'll you'll get here in just a moment in item number 3C. And as Joe made it in while I was talking, hopefully Okay, I don't see him yet. Hopefully he'll show up here uh shortly and continue on that. So then barring any questions, I'll be glad to turn it over to Kim and let her

Kim, please take it.

Thank you, Lee. Uh Mayor, council, good evening. Um we're excited to be back tonight to talk a little bit more about uh some of the previous conversations that we had. Um one of the one of the early ones that we were asked for was the Moscow method. Uh we've taken that back. We met with the advisory committee on that and and we did that back in October. So what we did there is we sat with everybody on the board advisory board and went through every space within the space. So we went through all of the Moscow method on here. And if you're not familiar with the meth Moscow method, that is looking at the overall facility, figuring out what are the must-haves, what are the should haves, what are the could haves, and what are the won't haves. So instead of quorum architects doing that, we put it in the advisory committee's court and had them do every single space within that. And we just had a very detailed across the table conversation coming up with that. And from that we took their ideas, took that back to our conceptual design, did an update, we did some reduction within that to get the cost down, get the overall square footage down, and then I'm going to give you a cost estimate too with those updated plans on that. So on here, you'll see that we we do have the must haves. That was the very first thing that we started with. Um the first thing is we went through the vestibules of knowing we needed to have the separation of the lobbies, the adoption versus the drop off. So, you've got a separation from the healthy and the sick. That was absolutely a must have for this team. Um, we're sharing a reception area to make it a much more efficient space for staff. Um, so staff can be utilized for both of those spaces. Um, private offices. We need to have one right now for the staff manager on here. Um, we're having an open concept for the animal control officers. So, a lot of those areas are reduced by having a workspace

versus individual offices on here. The break room absolutely a must on here. Indoor outdoor space for staff because we know this is all a very, very stressful job on these animal control officers as well as the whole team that they have there. Um, the quiet room, private room, that is a federally mandated space that we have to have. So, that stays in the scope. overall animal spaces that we have on here, the meet and greet spaces, the um the cat place uh playrooms, those are all very important spaces within here. Um exotic room to have those separate from all the other the cat spaces and the dog spaces. Um your cat rooms, your adoptable. So, some of the spaces that we're looking at within the cat rooms are your adoptable, your stray hold, your feral that uh Lee spoke of just a little bit ago with the the TNR program. Um isolation and quarantine. We have to be able to keep all of those spaces separate, but we're designing them to be flex spaces within um so they can be rotated to other spaces if we if their need were to come to have more adoptable or if you were to have a hoarding space, hoarding case or something, you could be able to switch those rooms out. Same thing for the dogs. All the exact same spaces, adoption, stray hold, quarantine ISO are musthaves. And then the overall kennels, the quality of the kennels, the finishes, the durability, knowing that they need to have that facility that takes them down 30 to 40 years down the road with just minor overall maintenance of that facility. um just it's going to be easy for the staff to clean to be more efficient and uh be uh more durable over time to hold up instead of the areas of the buildings deteriorating in front of them right now. Um the overall exercise playyards are very important meet and greet playyards um just to be able to get the dogs there as well as public to be able to come in and interact with those spaces.

And on some of those spaces too, that is what you're going to see also some of the reduction that we did within those. Um the enclosed sally port is very important because right now they have more of a fence enclosed sallyport and they have their struggles with that type of space. Um medical room your walk-in freezer. Right now they have the outdoor freezer area and this puts everything up underneath one roof. Um again for the efficiency of staff as well as the overall maintenance of the facility is going to be much easier with this type of space. Um the intake room so when they come into the Sallyport that was very important to this advisory board and the work room, the food prep areas, the grooming areas, the laundry rooms are all very important within these storage areas. We talked about it's always a shortage. So those are very important to uh be able to get it underneath one roof um instead of having it in the conx type spaces. And then the overall separation of parking the public separate from staff parking and volunteers as well just for the safety of staff um the vehicles for protection of those. So some of the should haves the meeting the training room I know we talked extensively on our last presentation uh they pulled that from the must and said that one is one that could go into the shoulds um volunteers office. It's always good to have a space for the volunteers because that program is going to continue to grow over time. Um, cat playroom, that was one that could go from the must to the shoulds. And then the could haves would be the um to have future office areas to for staff to grow into um would be recommended to have, but they don't have to. And then the site uh the city is looking at purchasing. There's plenty of room for a future dog park, a space for additional playyards. Um, that was on a could have something that could happen in the future. Won't haves because the original floor plan site plan was already

designed very efficiently. We did not did add any fluff to that on a modern-day facility, not the Taj Mahal of the facilities, but this is just a straight up modern-day facility on here. So there are no uh won't haves from this advisory committees. Is there any questions on the Moscow? I got one. You have a offices in here. I know a lot of big companies are going to open concept where nobody needs an office. Not even the CEO of the company. Nikki, is your microphone on or you It was and I was told to turn it up. [laughter]

So I know a lot of big companies are going to open concept, you know, as opposed to more collaboration things like that. I'll just asked it. um where there there there is no private offices. Everybody's in an open space and everybody works there. We have you all look at that.

We always look at that. Uh but with this type of facility, you always have to have or need to have a space so you can have those private conversations. You can have those one-on- ones with staff. Um you know, if it's for a disciplinary uh you know, matter and something else, you don't want to do that in open concept. So for the supervisor, it's always advised to have something like that for them. But then [clears throat] you see the animal control officers, they are in open concept. Um so whether you know it's two or three or we have 10, those areas are very open. So we just got one office.

We just have one office. We recommend you know you could add on for future or lease space to add on future work workstations within those areas. Was there anything else on the Moscow? Okay. So, looking at the overall floor plans, that's where we took everything back to look at this a little bit more. The one on the left that you see is the original one that we presented back in August and September. Um, that's going from about a 15,000 square foot building to the one on the right. We're taking that down to we've only lost about 1,000 square ft from the building. What we're losing from the actual floor plan, you'll see in a few minutes in large floor plan, is capacity. So, we've lost 10 dogs within this capacity. And in doing that, we're able to do a reduction of your playyards. Um, so you'll see where the playyards are tighter to the building and we also lost the livestock enclosures for now. Um, that's could be something that could be added on future. So technically in the Moscow that could have moved from the must haves to more of the shouldaves. So could be done in a future time. Um, just with a different uh basically a leanto type structure on that. Any questions on the site plan yet? And in reducing this, you'll see to a reduction in overall paving um and overall just materials wise, whether it's the fencing, uh turf, things like that. Overall floor plan, you're going to see here the lower left or I mean the lower portion of the kennels, all that was reduced because it was offset on the previous one. So all that has been reduced by 10, which is pretty much the most expensive portion of this animal shelter. on that we've gone through these plans in detail. Does anybody want me to run back through the spaces on any of these?

Are you comfortable with what we presented previously? Okay. Council, any questions for Kim? Okay, continue. [snorts]

So, within this, you're going to see a facility that is very the these are the same elevations that you saw before, the same um design. And what it is is a pre-engineered metal building. There is nothing super elaborate about this. This is not the Taj Mahal. This is not like um some of those that you saw from Garland or any of those type facilities. This is just a simple pre-engineered metal building with a stone masonry way on the front and then everything back of house is going to be your higher cost per square footage again for durability. The glazed CMU, the turf, the uh stainless steel kennels, the the acoustical panels. and we'll go over that list in just a few minutes and more of the um HBAC system that you'll see within here.

I do have one question. So, this is I got a answer for my uh uh people on the internet. Uh there was things bouncing around that we had that that the one that was presented before had like a cat yoga or dog yoga room. Is that true or not true? That was showing different uses of the meeting room. Meeting room. Yeah, the meeting training room. That is not a room that could be done. So, uh, it could be something that could be opened up to the public to be able to come in. They could offer classes, training. It's more for staff training, animal control officers. You know, that's where Jose was talking about. They would have to travel out of the community to another part of Texas or even out of the state. There's a training, not a yoga room. It is not a yoga room. Okay.

So, it was just uh another facility over in the city of Grapevine. They have they have a class occasionally for that. They have uh areas for students to come in for different types of training um and as well as just some overall fun exciting things that could be happening to bring some attention to your facility within here. But it's more for training obedience type training um you know to be able to train the kids up to and then people to learn how to take care of their animals once they adopt them in hopes that those animals do not come back to the facility again.

Okay. Thank you. So again, these are just some overall pictures. Uh we do have a uh taller volume coming into that front lobby. That could be something that could be reduced, but in reality, that would be about the only thing on this. Everything from that lobby area behind the structure is very simple simple design. So this one just brings in a welcoming environment. It brings in a plaza area for um public to be able to come in and maybe have adoption events, lowcost uh vaccination clinics, things like that in this area. And this area too just shows that a future area where you could do a future dog park uh because there is space there on the site that it could be utilized at a later time out of a different budget. So this one is looking at the overall um cost est evaluations. So, uh, some of the drivers that we've talked about is your HVAC to bringing in the proper HVAC with 100% outside air exchanges, sound control, uh, to make sure the proper construction is happening, the materials are happening within the space, um, the plumbing for the washdown system, disinfection system in here. All of these again are drivers that, uh, takes the cost up to the next level. So, it's not going to be not even like your fire station, your library across the street type [cough and clears throat] facility. They're going to actually be a higher cost per square foot on this type of facility. uh your finishes to make sure you are getting those impervious finishes that are very durable. Um that's going to withstand years and years of abuse on here. Um as well as the kennels, the cages um we have kennels and cages that we are specifying on or recommending for your project um that have been on other facilities for 20 plus years and it's just minor parts, hinges, stuff like that they have to do the updates on, but overall they're holding up very well. um the appropriate spaces here for the public interactions uh with animals to increase the adoption opportunities. So that's your meet and

greet spaces, your catio type spaces, your cat playrooms rather on those type spaces as well as the appropriate space for your day-to-day use within the shelter. Um that's the just additional space that you need for storage. Um even your mechanical electrical rooms, you need larger spaces for those because of the types of HVAC. So that just adds to your square footage within these type of spaces. Um some of the dry or here's our original that we did. So I'm just going to kind of recap a little bit so you see where the original numbers were coming in at. Um back in September we presented a 15,500 ft building with 63 dogs, 60 63 cats, 68 dogs. We were looking at an overall construction cost in today's dollar at $14.5 million. Um, if we look at a 6% escalation cost if we're looking at construction only, uh, we're showing these costs because we do see other facilities just publishing construction cost only. So, we want you to see the difference between overall construction cost versus overall project cost that Lee had spoke about. Um, so the overall construction cost in 26 or 2026 with that 6% increase would be up to 15.4 4 million in 2027 at 16.3. So you see that dra drastic increase for every year that this facility waits to be constructed. Um within the the soft cost you are having design fees. you are having your overall FFN your uh fixtures furniturees and equipment security technology all of that is rolled it in rolled into the space and then we're also showing your um land cost in here as well where we didn't include that previously but on the submitt we are showing that um so the total project cost for 2026 we're looking at 20 million.8 as well as 22.8 8 million for 2027. That just shows that

how much how quickly this is increasing for that. Um that shows the $750,000 for the land and uh this is looking at a facility that's going to take you out 30 to 40 years down the road. If we reduce the overall square footage like what we showed in your floor plan and as discussed with animal advisory committee, taking it down to just a little over 14,600, we're taking it to same cats at 63 cats, 56 dogs, and we're looking at a total project or total construction budget at 13.7 right now, 15 million for construction cost in 2026 and 16.6 in 2027. If you look at roll that into your total project cost, it's back up to 19.7 million and then 21 million in 2027.

So I know that's the eye opening numbers. Can you go back a page workbook? I'm trying. Okay. So you're going up4 million and reducing space. Yeah. If you're looking at if you're looking at the two, right? Is that say it again? You're going up point4 million or going [clears throat] down4 million. So th this one is 15.4 and you go forward one now it's 15. So you're cutting point4 million out and you're dropping how many square feet? We're taking about 1,000 square feet out about,000.

So it would to be able to get it the budget down more. It is going to have to be a drastic change within this. Um, and that's really going to affect your overall capacity. It's like, is it cutting at least 30 to 40%. And they need every bit of those kennels right now. Um, so what else would it be that they would cut? They would lose the generator. You'd probably lose your sally port areas. You'd lose more of your playyards, areas that are very critical to a modern-day facility to keep it functional to where they need to be. Um, so we've got those broken down if staff need to see those later on, but we just wanted to bring these to you at this time. So you got soft you got soft cost plus owner contingency approximately [clears throat] 2.3 million,

correct? Owner contingency. What's 2.3? I thought that there was only 750,000 to buy the 750,000 is for the land. Uh the 2.3 million is a owner contingency. So that's your design fees. That is your um your geotech, your construction material testing, uh all your FFN, your soft cost. Um with this being a brand new facility, much larger spaces, there is going to be a probably about a 300,000 $250 to $300,000 in soft cost for FFN within the facility of the site. That's not included in your right there. That should be pretty much everything. And this also includes your contingencies within this. So we do have a uh five and a 10% contingency built in to this as well. everything

that's land and everything within here. And as long as internet, all that's included within your soft cost. So within here, um, as long as you do have your, um, utilities within a reasonable range of the of the site, then those are included. If you've got to go, let's just say, half mile to a mile to get gas service, then that would increase its cost. Or we would go all electric. We should already know that. We know the land we're looking. We should already know if we're going to have to pay extra, right? So within this though, we were saying it would be either or or it'd be all electric. So it it'd be about the same price right here for what you're seeing within this cost based off of other facilities that we have done. [clears throat]

I just don't want to come back and say, "Oh, we got to run, you know, 10,000 ft of something and we didn't know that." There's no reason why we shouldn't know it now. Yeah. We don't anticipate that.

Bre, I have a quick question. Um, so maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but um, the total project cost, the contingency and soft cost is 2.3 million in 2025. Um, but if you take the 19.78 minus the 2.3 minus the 15 million, you're left with almost 2.5 million. So, are soft costs doubling in 2026 or

there is going to be a consistent basically 6% is what we're looking at because when you're looking at services coming into the building um you have fees that continue to go up from consultants within this um you your geoteex pretty much everything is going to be going up across the board. We don't see anything just being held just as a flat number because there is inflation [clears throat] across the board. I understand that. But um if you take the 15 million plus 2.3 million, now you're at 17.3 um minus the 19.78, you're at 2.48 million. That's the increase in soft cost and owners contingency, which was only 2.3 in 25. Or or am I looking at that wrong? But from what I'm seeing, we've got an increase in 2026 of 2.48 million for soft cost and owners contingency.

I'll have to take a step back and look at that just to make sure, but okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have my chart just directly in front of me where we had those broken out, but yeah. So, but we do have those as a broken out um for each construction as well as a total project. So, u that's that's what the formula was given me, but I'll just have to run my math again just to make sure. Okay. But that's what we were seeing at that time. Other questions for Kim? Mary? Go ahead, please. Um, first, I really appreciate your breaking it down into must-haves, should have, could have, won't have. I like that.

Okay, good. Um, and my question, the reduction of the kennels, I believe 10 kennels, and that would then also reduce the play area. That is correct. The way the building is laid out if in the future we wanted to add those back, would that be easy to do with the way the building is built? Would it be easy to add those 10 back at some time in the future if if we decided we wanted to do that?

That is correct. All of our buildings are designed to expand upon. Um we would have to push the driveway down further. Um just so you would not have to uh tear up that much concrete, that much pavement at that time. Uh but you would have to rework your playyards, okay,

at that time. So it would be minimal cost comparison to the building cost. Um but every facility is designed to be expanded upon as long as the site allows for it. And here there is room to expand on the site. Okay. And um I do appreciate you know you breaking all this down and making us understand you know the costs for the various items. Um, one point I would like to make or ask you if I'm correct is the nonan animal areas. And for example, the training room would be a shouldave, I believe. Was that a shouldave?

We're working with the advisory committee. Yes. They came back that it was a should have. We have Jose here too. um back here too that he was on the board that uh he would agree with that.

And so I would like to point out if people don't understand and you correct me if I'm wrong that these uh areas that are not connected with animals are much less expensive than the animal areas. And so if you were to make that training room area a must-have, would that add very much to the cost of the facility? It's currently in the the price that you're seeing now. We went ahead and we left it in there. Okay.

Um but if it was to be removed, you're not going to see that much savings from that type of square footage. Overall, the average animal shelter from the whole facility wise averages anywhere from, let's just say, 700 to 800 850 a square foot. We have some facilities that are more of the higherend, you know, design-wise, uh, the entry features, stuff like that. Some of those are running closer to $1,000 a square foot. Um, but what we did for the city of SAC and all that would be very fitting for this type location is closer to that 700 to 850 um, square foot. So, um I have heard comments that people think that that wouldn't be necessary, but um I feel like the added cost of having that would be negligible and I just wanted to make sure people understood that because some of the things that have been complained about wouldn't really reduce the cost that much.

That's correct. And that is a space that could be used as a mixeduse space. Um, it doesn't have to be training 247. It could be for other, you know, adoption events. It could be for your lowcost vaccination clinic. Uh, different spaces like that could be used within that. Um, you just say if staff were to grow tremendously, they could use that as a, you know, just more office spaces or different spaces like that. So,

and I was able to visit two animal shelters recently. Um, and both of them are about four years old, so very new. And one of them did not use stainless steel, which has been advised. And you are already seeing rust in that four-year-old facility that did not use stainless steel. And then the other one did not use non-porous materials for the flooring. and they're having to go back now and to great expense put that non-porous flooring in to a facility that's only four years old.

So I'm quite sure they're wishing they had addressed that in the beginning. So thank you. Yeah, sure. Thank you. So we have seen many facilities where they have they come in and value engineer from the beginning and we always see that coming back and yes it's helping you up front but later on you're have to come back in and make those modifications make those repairs you know two three years four years down the road on that just to make it you know a clean um a safe area for staff as well as those animals to be able to live and function.

So I got a question a clarification question. So earlier e [clears throat] even with this 14,635 ft building, this is being built for us and it should last the next 30 years, right? Meet our needs. So with that being said, we shouldn't need to be adding on any new panels for the next 30 years,

right? I mean, we are we are cutting 10. So that original count was uh done from our original staff discussions their needs. So we did reduce it by a 10 for the animals for the dogs spaces but the overall cats does meet your future needs for a buildout of sagenol. So, so my thing is so so at [clears throat] 14,6 I think it's 35 square feet 146 that with your all's estimates and with the growth and you know you know everything being what it is now we would not need to add any count that's big enough for us to handle all of

as long as the the facility still functions like it currently does very similar hold times your length of stay for your animals if any that ever shifts a little bit, uh, you go to longer hold times, then you're going to have need have a more ne more need for animal spaces, right, within those. Excuse [clears throat] me, mayor. So, um, could I ask Kim just, um, explain the difference between the best practice kennel capacity and an emergency? Absolutely. Worst case scenario, kennel capacity.

Right. So right now what you see with the 58 dogs within here, you have a indoor kennel and you have the outdoor kennel. So basically every dog has two living spaces. One is basically to go out, exercise, be able to eliminate or as well as to um to just for staff to be able to push animals to one side uh for cleaning. If there was an emergency event in here, you could double your capacity within this facility. Um, it's not meant to have the animals, multiple animals living in there full-time, but it's for emergency situations only because they are outdoor spaces on here. So, you do have to the heat and the cold within those spaces they would be subjected to, but worst case it could work for very short term hoarding case or a disaster to help Sagonal or an adjacent community.

Yeah. So it what's that meant to do if I understand say that there was some people that was hoarding I don't know 50 cats in their house or 20 cats and 50 dogs which it happens every city has that absolutely that would give us the ability to ride over that hump you could for a short term right what I just want what I want to make sure of is okay we're cutting 10 kennels down come back [clears throat] in five years and say will you cut us our 10 kennels out and so therefore now we can't meet our capacity because we we our population is growing. You all calculated the population growth the max out in the next years and that's calculated in here.

That was for the um when it was at the 60 the the previous submitt we had for the uh 15,500 foot that was for the max buildout with the uh current capacity. Okay. That's correct. [snorts] So then you got to give us if you've cut 10 kennels out and you're saying now that we not going to meet the max, then somebody's got to tell us when would the building meet because it's no longer going to meet our 30-year need. You see what I'm saying? I do see what you're saying. Um just we just have to take a step look at that again. But that area too could change over the years depending on again functionality,

right? So does length of stay you start educating the staff I mean start educating the citizens more you know over time your uh overall capacity your intake could be reduced so you know all that's going to kind of have your highs and your lows throughout the city it's all about training it's all about you know advertising for adoptions more and more and that's where staff is doing a really good job with that right now

yeah it we we've done they've done I know that the the animal has done an amazing job getting our throughput down. And I know that the magical number is is uh 30 days. You do not want to hold an animal unless absolutely necessary for over 30 days. They they taught me that. So again, I have to know all the stuff. So if you if you you have to tell me, okay, we've cut 10 kennels out of this. Here's what it's going to cost, you know, short. So somehow then if you're telling me that the original add to 10 kons was for us total maxed out when you take 10 kennels away [snorts] now I'm going to have to come back sometime between now and 30 years and add another 10 kennels in order to get that and I need to know that in order to make a good decision for my citizens

and whether you add it now now you know you're only saving basically was that about a half million to a million dollars you add that back in 10 years from now and you look at the overall construction cost, then it ain't going to be a half million dollars 10 years ago. No, it's not. Um, if you look at the city of Carolton, we designed that one at two basically less than $3 million for just 9,000 square ft. We're adding on basically now for a vet clinic and a few modifications to that at $5 million. And look how little they're getting, how little you get for your buck

in today's dollars. You know, not only is is an add-on just more expensive than new buildout is I'm going to have to tear up the outside playground or not playground outside area and then rebuild that. That's correct. In the drive, right? And and driveway. So I in order for me to make it, I have to understand it. You have to tell me these things. You know what I'm saying? Right. And it's it's all going to depend on, you know, when we hit that population, when you want to. Um, Jose, if you want to kind of speak on any of that at all about when you would think um those would happen or Lee on that. Um, but it it's just going to be depending on the time. Yeah. I mean,

on the animals capacities, [clears throat] it's going to depend on, you know, the city, on the citizens, on how often they're dropping off animals. um if they're not dropping them off as often, you know, it could be pushed out longer and it may never have to happen. Well, I don't unfortunately I don't see u a big difference in uh humanity's uh treatment towards animals happening. So, I expect them to continue to have stray animals about the same level we are now forever and ever. It's it's unfortunate, but it's a problem that humans create. Right. Well said. Yeah.

I just my my thing is I don't want to cut something out and [snorts] then in five years have to pay twice the amount to put it back. That's correct. And Nick, I think part of what you're asking that that cut was not made for logistical reason. It was made for finance. Yeah. It was made for to save dollars, not necessarily because for the look to the future. So I think that's sort of what your point is and I want people just to realize that we're trying to cut it down because it's a big number. It's an expensive number. Uh it's an expensive sticker shock kind of thing and it's a lot of money. So we're trying to be as frugal as we can. Yeah. And I don't I don't also don't want to also don't want to in in five six years come back and have to ask the citizens for another $5 million when I could have had it for half a me.

Very true. Kim, one piece of uh housekeeping. Since you've been talking, Joe Stout has shown up. I don't know if you need him for this presentation or we wait for his his item next. I think his was for the next item. Okay. So we don't need Joe. Thanks for coming, Joe. Any more questions for Kim? Excuse [clears throat] me. Yeah, mayor.

If we explored any grant or other funding for this, I mean, we need an animal shelter at $20 million, it's not going to pass. The voters are not going to accept it. And now we're down two more years down the road before we can do this again. So, we got to think smart about how we're doing this. And if there's money out there, we need to go after it. If we got to pay a grant writer and you know 10, 15, whatever thousand dollars and we can get a couple million dollars, then we need to explore that,

right? There are some grants out there, but uh most of those are tied into a nonprofit. Um if some cities are tied in with those, um Parker County had one uh with the Reese Jones Foundation. It was about a million dollars, but that was for their uh medical clinic. uh they were doing work you know with nonprofits as well as with the junior college uh for their vet department. So they were doing a lot of training uh within that. So u most of them are nonprofits that we are seeing. There are others out there um but we don't see that many for municipal type projects. So it would it would take a lot of a lot of digging and a just a lot of a lot of search for those but there are a few out there.

Yes, Mary go ahead. Um I have heard that theory that Paul just uh came up with. I've heard that stated by many people that unless the cost is quite a bit lower, it won't pass. I disagree with that concept very much. I've spoken to probably 20 or 25 people who all say we first of all this is a very expensive building. They are you know the second or third most expensive uh city facilities that can be built. First is jails, second is hospitals, maybe animal shelters are second. But the point is, it's going to be very expensive. That's why we haven't done it all these years. We need to do it. And if we're going to do it, we need to do it correctly. And a few million dollar difference will make very little difference in your property tax being raised. If you maybe compare 15 million to 20 million, that difference in and of itself will not be a big difference to your property tax bill for your city. We don't want to spend millions of dollars not doing it correctly. We want to spend a few million more, do it correctly, make it last for 30 or 40 years. So, I think our residents have that frame of mind. Very few people would go to a bond election and look at the items on the bond

election and say to themselves, "Yes, we need an animal shelter very badly. I don't like the price point on this. If it were one or two or three million dollars less, I would vote for it. But I'm not going to vote for it now. That is not the way people come to an agreement about how they're going to vote for something. If people want that animal shelter, they're going to vote for it at the price that would meet the requirements. So, I disagree that it would not pass at a lower price. I'm sorry. I disagree that it would not pass at the higher price.

Okay. Other questions for Kim? Just say Kim, really appreciate you putting it together. Absolutely. You're welcome.

I I did not have a question for Kim. Uh maybe a question for the other Kim. Um, when we do bonds, because we would have to do a bond for this, we're borrowing money, and I know that when we borrow money, the principal payments and the interest payments, uh, interest more specifically go into the maintenance and operating costs for the city. Um, average bond interest rates right now, I I don't know what those are, but I think they're somewhere between five and 6% the last time that we were talking about it. Um the increases per year, 6% on the cost is what Kim is estimating here. So regardless if we wait or if we start now, we're still going to be paying 6% per year whether it's later or now. Am I understanding that correctly or interpreting that correctly?

We did a a really quick rough estimate [clears throat] um and we used 4 and a half% based on our bond council. what we're seeing now as far as 20-year debt, four and a half percent. Um, based on the estimate she's giving you, um, we just heard, it's about for an average homeowner, it would be $180 a year for an animal, an increase of $180 a year. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. And that's just for the animal shelter, right? Correct. That's just interest. So it's just debt service, not any additional operating costs that have we paid off any bonds in the last year or this year going to be.

We have, but the debt that we've recently issued has been structured around that payoff. We won't see any more capacity until I believe it was 2034.

Yeah. And mayor, council member, that's a good point. So let's say we take some dollar amount to voters. voters approve that is our lockstock and barrel budget. So um depending on the design of the project we would issue many of y'all recall we don't issue the chunks all at once we issue it when we need it for design or construction phase but you know if we run into a situation where construction inflation is 10% we're talking value engineering where we went through this with the lee could tell you um he before the library and senior center he had shoulder length there. But uh we went through that just in two three years and thankfully had some uh pretty good differential in interest savings where we were able to to get that facility delivered. So it's a tough environment everybody's understands.

Well, and my my point of clarity here is I'm what I'm concerned about not necessarily the $180 per taxpayer um because we know that some people are going to be exempt from some. So, it's it's going to fluctuate. That's a good average. But, um, when we looked at the budget, we talked about I believe it was 300 around 335 or 350,000 that we would have to cut to cut a 1% I think is what we had calculated. And so, I'm just trying to compare that to what the the interest will be every single year that's going to increase.

Yeah, I think I understand what you're saying. So we usually do one penny on the tax rate equals x amount. Is that what you're getting at? So it's it's different. The what we're talking about that side of the tax rate is the INS interest and syncing debt fund. So it's separate. Once we issue the debt, we're fixed and that payment's locked in. Right. Yeah. No, and I understand that. I'm just trying to make sure that people understand like because when we went through the budget process, it was pretty arduous trying to figure out Okay.

Well, yeah. And we we talked about this too the um kind of and this is all cities not just ours but our limitations from the state or we can go up 3 and a half%. Um on the operating side the difficulty is our costs are not fixed year-toear for electricity is a great example gas water utilities. So we can't a resident had asked me why why haven't we been saving for x amount of time for a shelter. It's really not feasible to do that absent assuming you keep your service levels the same because from year to year it costs more our police officers are fired that sort of thing.

Right. But the interest is part of that mean it's an operating budget. Correct. It is not. It is on the the debt side and once it's issued, it's fixed and will never exceed. It's not variable or locked into the term. Okay. All right. Other question. Back, you got something? Go ahead.

I do have one more. Um, have y'all been able to run very rough estimates of what this would do to the M side of getting a new animal shelter in? I know every year we're we're struggling to make sure that uh we're allocating costs appropriately, that we're uh controlling the interest or the uh the increase in taxes or uh hopefully staying flat or going down. But um I I want to see some at least rough guesstimates. It doesn't have to be super accurate, but I want to know if we do build a shelter, um, are we going to be able to properly staff it? Are we going to be able to maintain it? Um, given the current economy. So the uh as far as staffing goes, I would answer that similar to this when we uh talked about uh this once before and that is that you'll we will definitely realize some efficiencies in this shelter even though it would be much larger than the current one. um the cleaning time, feeding time, that sort of thing. Um should be very similar to what it is now, even though it would be larger. Um I've checked there. You know, we have things like utilities and insurance. You can I think you can count on about um about 30 to $35,000 a year for those. Um which would be a an increase from today. Um

but not a huge increase. I mean it's not even 50% more. Um so uh yeah, it would take some adjustments. Um, I don't see, you know, I think everybody in the city just about would tell you they need more staff right now. And I think that's something that we're going to have to address at some point in the future. Um, or there will be a a significant cut in services. However, I think um we'd be willing to go into this with the same sort of eyeopening test run that we're doing with the library and the senior center and stick with the same staff that we have until we see how it operates and then come back to you with a need on that. But I wouldn't I can't say that there we would guarantee that we would guarantee that we wouldn't need more staff and I can't say that we would. I mean, I think again they'll be um there's a lot of things that are not not necessarily automated in a new facility in this design, but they would be much more efficient and convenient to to working. I think you could certainly count on a volunteer force increasing with a new shelter. I've seen that happen firsthand. uh and and that uh could go a long way to help maintain it.

Well, again, I'm I'm not asking for let's dial it in, let's look at it and make sure, but I I do need a a general sense of what we're looking at. Um because when budget season comes around, it it it's an arduous process. It takes some time. Uh there's things that we all want to be able to pay for, but reality is is that we're not able to do that in every case. And um I want to make sure that we don't um move forward with something and then go, well, we've bitten off a little bit more than we can chew and so we're going to have to make some serious cuts in other areas to be able to afford this. And um I I just want to make sure that the M impact uh that's as important to me as the bond impact. Um and what we've talked before I think absolutely we would keep staffing flat where it is today. In the future look at but as this building designed it should should be able to run with current staffing levels. And Lee makes a good point about volunteers. I 100% guarantee we'll get more volunteers. We have a fantastic volunteer group now. We really do a lot of folks. I've been up there a few times, but I think we'll get more with a beautiful new facility and easier for our staff. Um, and while I'm on my soap box, if anybody has not been to our current shelter, I urge you to go take a tour out there. If you have a question about whether we need a new shelter, please go look at our car one. Just have a look, see how our folks work, not just for the animals, but our employees are under duress and it's not a healthy work environment. So, just please I I encourage you, I'd love to have you you go through and take a tour. anybody who can hear my voice either here or online. So that's my shot box. But thank you.

I did want to say go ahead. I used to question the the whether there would be an increase in volunteers. Um but I know Mr. Mayor, you and I have been over at the senior center quite a bit and uh the volunteers at the senior center have increased since we've got the new facility. Um, I don't I don't know how many volunteers were at the old facility to be honest with you, but I know there's a ton over there now. Um, so, you know, my viewpoint's changed on that. I'm happy to say. Um, I just we're going to sit and think about this. I It's a lot of information. So, it's definitely Yeah. And we we don't have to make a decision tonight. This is more information. Any other What were we here? Any other questions for Kim? I want to let Kim sit down because I have people that want to talk.

I got a general question. Well, [clears throat] any question? We've made this request a couple. We need to have a working session cuz here's the problem I've got is we got a lot of stuff coming at us and that's going to cost our citizens potentially a lot of money. And it ain't just bonds. Okay. So, to me, a bond is just one way. Debt of obligation, which don't go to the citizens, which we're going to have to do. And I can read some things up. We're fixing to remodel the old library. We've got a $2 million ladder truck that we've got to buy. If we don't buy that, what does that do? It's going to then through insurance, everybody's home insurance across all sageno is going to go up from my understanding because we don't have that truck. It's going to drop us to that level. So, we got to get a fire truck. Okay. That's a debt of obligation. It's still going to hit the citizens taxes, your taxes, my everybody taxes go up. I we need to have a working session and we need to sit here and we need to lay out all of these big ticket items and say, "Okay, here's what we got to have. The roads that's in critical shape that we got to fix." Things like that. The ladder trucks, the remodel of fire station 2. Fire station 2 is how old? 20ome years old. 25.

Yeah. Right.

All of this, even though some of it may not go to a bond, it's going to increase the tax debt. And we h in order for me sitting here and representing our citizens, I have to have all that figured out. Just like when I do my budget at home, I got to know every single bit of money I need to spend over the next few years. And sometimes I know people says they won't. I'll be honest with you, just short a while back my truck caught on fire. I went to look at a new one and I looked at it. Boy, I like that new Ford F250. Go out there and see what I'm driving. I'm I'm driving a truck that caught on fire and I had to rebuild it cuz I could not afford it. And I want to make absolutely sure that everything gets laid out for the next few years and I go, "Okay, what's this going to cost? What are we going to have to do? We're going to spend the money and makes makes it all good." But if I do every piece individually and I I spend all this money on the animal shelter and I just look at that in a vacuum, it's only $180 a year more. You can afford it. And then I go over here and I buy that new fire truck. Well, that's only $60 a year more. Boy, those 5060 $80 a year is going to going to begin to bite in the old pocketbook. Especially when the average increase across the US over the last few years in the private sector has only been about 2.3% of a person's annual raise. So that's what's got me worried and that's what I really really need us to say. I I I need the city to come back and lay all this out and say over the next 5 10 years, here's all these big debt items, whether it is whether it is a a bond or not a bond, but if it's something that's going to cost us and we have to

I can I can do it right now if you want to just go through real quickly. We've kind of gone through this. So streets, we're all in agreement based on the pavement condition assessment that East Maroy and uh industrial are priorities. the construction amount which is what we bring to voters approximately 35 million. How much? 35 million. And how's that going to affect the citizens? Uh you most of the citizens know how much all this is affecting. Sure. No, absolutely. Good deal for you to put it down on paper so they can cut.

Yeah. I think uh next council meeting and I remind the council that if we want to go with this proposition or any proposition the election has to be called the first meeting of February. So we we've [snorts] got to have these discussions. Yeah. I thought that the plan was the next two meetings of the second the one the second week of January or the third week of January and the first of February we would go through all the details potential for for um the bond bond election get the information so that we can digest it at least no later than the the [clears throat] beginning of the second week of January. Yeah. Oh, I can we can get from our Sure. We can get the

I mean I literally would like to say these for the next year. These are all the big ticket items. Here's what it here's what the city wants to pay. And here's how this is going to affect the citizen for this thing on their tax bill. Is it going to raise it? $5 or $500. I think we can get that from our financial advisor. Do you want to go through the list then? We're at 35 million.

We're let let's stick back to animal shelter. This is supposed to be an animal shelter discussion. I don't want to get too far a field. So I don't the only other two items we've talked broadly street some amount animal shelter some amount park improvement some amount that could include um the rec center roof replacement that could be part of a um I would I think that issuing certificates of obligation for fire station renovation apparatus makes sense and I'm seeing more cities do that because that's a court service we we've just got to do and a ladder truck in a city with a big industrial core, you can't be without. So,

yeah, let's let's bring this back to the animals before we get too crazy. We've got other stuff. Yes. Yes. All right. Please. Animal shelter. Um, I just have to respond to Nick's uh [snorts] Nick's statement, which of course I agree we have these expenses. I just want to point out that we do have many uh things going on in the city that will raise our our sales tax considerably. So, you know, we have to understand that our revenue will probably increase. Also, I don't know that it will increase enough, but I'm just saying let's not forget about that.

All right, let's Any more questions for Kim while we have you? While we have her here, animal shelter questions for Kim. Anything else? I've got several people that want to talk. Yes. Right.

One last thing. Um, so running over the numbers, I'm a numbers guy, so uh when they don't match up, I I don't understand. And so for looking at this, you said typical cost is between 700 and 850 per square foot. Uh this is a 14,000 plus. So let's just call it 15 for easier math. Um the cost in 2026 was 15 million. So that's already at a,000 per square foot. Um so

the 77 700850 that's in the 2025. So we do the 6% up. Okay. Yeah. So, I will go through and I'll break this down cost per square foot and do that just verification between the construction versus the project and I'll get that back to Lee and that way he can share it with the team. Well, and so I'm going to push back just a little bit. Um, at 850 and you go to a,000 that's approximately a 12.5% increase. That's not a 6% increase. We'll go back and verify all the numbers. So,

yeah, I'll do a checks and balance for you. I'll I'll I'll give you the breakout of our uh our form, the spreadsheet, just so you can see it all. Thank you. Yeah, I'll be very transparent with it all where it comes from. Okay, last call for Kim. Anything else? Any other questions for Kim? Thank you very much, man. Appreciate your answer, please. All right, I've got several folks want to speak on this. Uh we'll go through those. Uh in the interest of time, I I encourage you to be uh respectful of the time of others so we can get everybody in to speak tonight, please. Uh, first I have Julie Jacobson.

I can't see without my glasses distance and I can't get close to read with them. So bear with me as I stumble up here. Understand?

Yeah. Thank you so much for letting me speak tonight. Um, good evening. My name is Julie Jacobson and I've been a resident of Sagenol for over 30 years. Bought my first house here in my early 20s and raising my grandchild here now. So I'm very very invested in our community. I also am a um member of the city of Sagenol animal advisory committee and so I have been intimately involved with this project and I want to reassure everyone here tonight that none of the Moscow conversation was taken lightly. It was a very lengthy meeting um with a lot of really good robust conversation. I want to start by saying that I understand the concern about cost in a town this size. Every dollar matters. Um, being good, careful stewards of our resources is part of who we are. And second, this conversation is not about extravagance. It's not. It's about responsibility. It's about foresight. It's about doing things the right way the first time. Our community is growing. That growth brings opportunity, but it also brings challenges. And one of them is an increased need to care for the animals that are lost, abandoned, and mistreated. um our shelter um the shelter that we build today must not only serve today's needs but it also has to serve the needs of our town 5 10 20 and 30 years um on from now. A prefabbed or um undersized shelter may seem like a savings upfront, but the reality is cutting corners often costs more in the long run. Um, as Kim talked about, right, the facilities that are too small or poorly designed lead to overcrowding, higher disease rates, increased strain on our staff who are already doing an incredibly difficult job, um, and repeated renovation costs. And those expenses for repeated renovations are costs that we're going to pay again and again uh, with taxpayer dollars. A state-of-the-art shelter isn't about fancy finishes, and that's not what we're we're advocating for.

It's about smart design. It's about proper ventilation to reduce disease. It's about separate spaces for sick animals, um, for strays, spaces for adoptions to be facilitated. It means a safer working condition for staff and volunteers. And I strongly agree that we're going to see an increase in volunteers um, when we have a facility that actually can be accommodating of them. It also means a calmer environment for animals. And we know that calmer environments for animals lead to better mentality and well-being, which makes more animals adoptable. It increases adoptions um and adoption rates. A modern, well-run shelter tells people that we are a town that plans ahead and cares deeply about animal welfare and that we take pride in doing things well. And so that's what we're advocating for. That's what I'm asking for. This isn't just an animal issue. It's a public health issue. It's a community safety issue and it's a quality of life issue. Humane, efficient shelters reduce stray populations. They support reasonable pet ownership and they partner with rescues and volunt uh uh veterinarians more effectively. The real question isn't about whether we can afford to build a proper shelter. It's about whether we can afford to build something that we already know is not going to meet our needs going forward. Does that make any sense? Um, if we're going to invest, let's invest wisely. Let's build a shelter that grows with our community, protects our animals, supports our staff, and reflects the kind of town that we want to be. Doing it right once is always going to be the most affordable way to do it, and it's more responsible than doing it cheaply twice. Um, we need to put this bond on the ballot, and we need to support this initiative the right way, the first time. Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am. Next I have Tabitha Okconor.

Welcome.

Good evening. My name is Tabitha Okconor and we've lived in Sagenov for 14 years I think now. And the animal shelter is a problem. I know that most of you have been over there. I the idea that it's a it was built as a temporary building and it's lasted as long as it has is ridiculous. If citizens want services, they have to be willing to pay for services. And I get it. Everybody's on a budget. I'm on a budget. I'm not looking forward to a larger tax bill. But if it means that we are going to be able to take care of the animals and the staff at the shelter properly, it's time to get this done. We cannot keep kicking it down the road. So,

thank you, ma'am. Next, I have Dr. Karen Reid. Thank y'all. I think you put it beautifully, Mr. How, with giving the background of the shelter. I started out as a volunteer there. Now I'm the chair of their 5013C or C3 and we've looked for grants and we occasionally can get a grant. It is nowhere near the ability to afford something like this. Uh when I volunteered there, uh you get a real opening of what's what's happening there. For all of those animals, they get all of their bedding changed daily. They have one washer and one dryer. And that goes constantly and when it breaks you get the laundry that piles up so that we're putting it outside the doors because there's nowhere else to put it and then you have to try and catch up. You know, there's kitten season a couple of times a year and you have so many kittens in the cat room. It's two two uh [clears throat] two little kennels. We will put temporary kennels up above the two kennels so we can fit everybody in. It's just not a workable solution. And we talk about the dogs where you want them inside and outside. Well, when they're full, sometimes the dogs have to go to quarantine. Well, nobody gets to go to quarantine to look to see if they want to adopt that dog because he's in an area that he can't be seen. So, we're really at a point and this I know has gone on for years and we get real excited that it's going to be put on the bond and we're going to get to vote on it and then it goes away. So, we're really hoping if you have any doubts,

you come and you look at the shelter and you see what magic they're doing with what they've got to work with and then you realize how bad it needs to be put on the bond and let the people vote for it because it's really time. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Benjamin Guty, you were gone. I was going to skip over you, but you came back. So,

I didn't realize how fast I down that water. I had to run. All righty. So, um I think a lot of uh the concerns I brought up at the last meeting and that other residents are bringing up aren't really being addressed properly. Um I haven't heard anybody say we don't need a shelter. I haven't heard anybody say that uh we don't want to build it with stainless steel or the top-notch materials firsthand. Um there's too many kennels. We are subsidizing the city of Blue Mound. We are subsidizing the 11th largest city in America, Fort Worth, on its own without Dallas. It's the 11th largest city in America. Uh, I have a feeling, um, Jose or maybe some staff can kind of, uh, maybe shed more light on this, but I have a feeling that people around in Fort Worth are thinking that they live in Sagena. And so when they have an animal problem, they say, "Oh, well, let's go drop it off at Sagen." I also have a feeling that because of some of the practices that our shelter does and some of the programs that we participate in, we're more humane than some of the other cities around us that some of the volunteers are saying, "Take that kitty to Sagenol because they're going to let it live for a year and feed it and bathe it and neuter it and give it a bunch of free vaccines and and and catnip." So, um I'm totally against this plan, uh as presented. Um the Moscow thing, I know that the committee met. It sounds like they talked for a long time. Don't know if anybody else picked up on this, but everything stayed in the mustave. I mean, literally like the only thing that was moved in was a couple of things in the should have, but they kept them in

the plan. The two things that were in the not have are actually never included in the budget. it was a future dog park and something else. So, that wasn't even in any of the plant. So, the Moscow was like walked through, but I don't really think it was done. Um, I've heard a lot of words like responsibility, deserve. Animal shelters are here for one real really one reason. They didn't even start coming up in cities until like the 50s. It's for nuisance and it's for safety. It's not for like warm fuzzy and like putting in a PetSmart and like all this kind of stuff. I'm also totally against where y'all are planning on putting it. I can't wait to hear all the complaints from all the people that are like, "It smells like burritos when I'm trying to adopt a kitten and oh, there's these big trucks and every Yeah, cuz it's they were there first. It's an industrial area, you know. Um, and I do want to say to councilman council member Copeland, I really don't think voters won't even have the choice of, oh, this is a couple million dollars difference. They're just going to shoot it down like they did the natatorium like they did other things. Voters do pay attention and I really don't think it's going to pass as is. But we do need a new animal shelter. Thank you'all.

Thank you, Benjamin. Uh, next is Kim Burkner.

Good e good evening. Thank you for allowing me to speak, excuse me, or [clears throat] trying to. Uh, I've been in Sagenoff for over 35 years. I am one of those people that takes care of the feral cats and feeds them. I take care of over 12 cats every day, two, three times a day, medical needs, whatever, so that they're not having to go to a shelter. There is nothing wrong in my opinion, no offense, with having known being known for having a no-kill shelter. I am very proud of that fact that we allow these animals a chance to have a life, allow a family somewhere down the road a chance to know the love of this creature. It may not happen in a week. It may take two, three weeks before those two connect. And I'm okay with that. I have been to the shelter. I've dropped animals off because they're stray dogs or whatever or I'm picking up an animal. We're tripping over each other every time I'm there. There's you you can't you can't even flex your elbows but without hitting somebody. There's no way in our current facility that you could hope to adopt an animal because there's nowhere to meet and greet with them properly. We need to give these animals a chance. We have this beautiful new firehouse and the library and the senior center. I'm sorry. In my opinion, it's the animals turn now. And Mary, I agree with you. I honestly don't know which of you represents where I live. And that's okay. I am retired. I am on a very fixed income. I make less than what a first year teacher makes in my former district. And my husband makes even less than I do. And I'll be honest with you, I am willing to pay whatever that amount is. And I would rather see pay a larger amount slightly now and have it done right to where we don't need to go back and revisit, revisit, revisit. You know what? We got to do it fast because looking at those projections of how much it's going to go up, the more we put it off, the more we're going to pay, the more people are going to go, I

don't know. But I'm just saying as from my perspective, I'm willing to pay that amount. So, thank you. and I hope that we this goes forward. Thank you, ma'am. And just a one clarification, we all represent the entire town. We're not single member district. So, we're all at large. Okay. So, nobody rec we're all we're all here for you. So, okay. Just so everybody is clear. I have two more folks that said they wanted to speak on 3C, but I would allow you to speak on this one now if you want. And that's Meredith Brown and Mr. Patterson. Um, you're happy to speak now. I don't want you to speak both times, but if you can speak now, go for it. Welcome.

Thank you. Thanks for letting me speak. So, Sagena has doubled in population since this shelter was built, but there is no measure for how much worse the animal welfare crisis is since then. However, as someone in rescue, please believe me when I tell you that it is getting worse by the day right now. Yet, this shelter operates with only five full-time employees who not only care for the animals 24/7, but must also respond to every animal control call, including Blue Mound. Um, and even as small as it is, they rely on a 501c3 to get the funding they need for a majority of the vet care and some of the food they require to support that limited number of animals. So, most of you have been to the shelter. Yeah. Okay. So, how did you feel when you were in there and the dogs are barking and it's crazy and the cats are reaching through the bars asking for help? Did you feel good? Anybody ever felt good in a shelter? Not usually. The definition of shelter is to protect or shield something from harm. And yes, these dogs and cats may be physically safe until they find themselves on a last call list. But there's more to it than that. Kennel neurosis is real. And when dogs in particular, but also cats are not given enough mental stimulation, their behavior declines, making them less and less likely to ever leave. And the 30-day stay, there's a dog that's been there since March. So that's an average, but not the rule. And it's of course it's a pitbull. Of course, it's a pitbull.

The just so the 30 days Oh,

it's an average. I I know it's an average. I'm just saying that there are exceptions to the rule. Um, so do you think that these five full-time employees have time to fulfill those needs as well as everything else? No, they don't. I work with one of the largest rescues in DFW and have witnessed how little most shelters are able to offer the animals in their care. This is not the fault of the dedicated staff. This is the fault of many cities for undervaluing the impact of a properly funded shelter. Do you know that public perception of shelters is so bad that many times people trying to own or surrender to our rescue will tell us that if we can't take the dog or cat, they will shoot or drown it to avoid it going to a shelter. That's not okay. That's awful. [laughter] Changing this perception and creating new beginnings for these forgotten, unwanted, or abused animals starts with the design of the shelter. Every kennel should have outdoor access, which we've seen exceptions for medical cases. Instead of a reverberating metal hole, soundproofing can be used to help cut down on stress for both animals and people. Playyards can be affordably designed as sensory spaces to alleviate boredom and anxiety. Climbing structures and windows in catioype spaces can be put in for cats to exercise. The more you cut funding, the more likely these stressfilled concrete and metal boxes will be the last thing deserving animals experience. So, how many of you have a dog or a cat? The rest of you, I know where you can get one. [laughter] Um, and you need one. So, those of you that have one, I want you to picture your dog or your cat in the current noisy, utilitarian concrete and metal boxes of the Sagenov shelter wondering what they did wrong. Hopefully, your fur babies don't end up there. But if they did, wouldn't you want them to have more? I think most people that have pets and those that need to get them uh would say yes. These

animals have already been failed by people usually more than once. So properly funded and well-designed shelters should be the start of their comeback, not the end of their story. Thank you. Thank you. M I wanted to the 30 days wasn't the average. What it is is we had an expert come in a couple years ago and there's studies that shown that once an animal stays in an animal shelter over 30 days, it starts negatively affecting their uh mental state. So, you really really want to try to do things to get the animal adopted before that 30 days so you don't affect them mentally. Just want to clarify that.

All right. Thank you, James Patterson. Okay. I'm James Patterson. Uh, I'm a one-man [clears throat] advisory committee and advocate for the citizens. I feel like I wouldn't have even found out about this. It would have all been swept under the carpet if it wasn't for um social media. Uh, we need more. We need to be more frugal with our taxpayer money. It is not what we want. But what do we really need compared to the other cities of like population? I do not agree with the quorum's assessment whatsoever. There's a lot of things that we don't have answers that the answers should have been here tonight. And then there's the assessment. There's just a lot of things that were, I believe, told wrong to the committee or the advisory that uh has a good heart for animals like myself. Um, this current shelter was built that we have today for $100,000 in donations which were tax write offs. Note the 30 uh 501c3 who has contacted these people from the past when we need them now. The current location can be remodeled. The back could be opened up of the shelter and extended out if you get rid of the

original one, bulldoze it down. Uh it can be connected to the public works building that will mostly be vacant, if not totally when they move to the library. Uh, no need to buy unnecessary land. Things that concern me. Number one, why do we not have any rescue partners such as Petco, Best Friends Animal Society, through the Home Humane Society, etc. of North Texas? Number two, why doesn't our $100,000 beautifification sign today not say it should say happy holidays, make someone's Christmas special, adopt a dog. Number three, there's multiple Sagenov Facebook pages that should have dogs for adoption daily posted and available to share. I'm sure some of these ideas would help the matter as well. No, let's get into the numbers. As far as 18 or 12 million starting point to see how low we have to go to get the vote is wrong. We need to go by demographics. An analogy is you can buy a $1.2 $2 million home in Taylor Sheridan's neighborhood with copper roof and so on and so forth. 4,000 square ft. You can actually buy 10 of them in the lifestyles of rich and famous for 12 million. That's a lot of dog shelter right there as I said with copper roofs. [clears throat] Wow. Senage 25,000 people, 33 dog kennels. Richland Hills they're remodeled. They did a remodel three years ago. 9,000 people, 12 dogs, 16 cats is what they hold. Wataga, 23,000 people. They have 18 kennels. They're full. White Settlement. Uh they took over River Oaks last month. 25,500 people. They have 40 dogs, 33 cats. 25 years. Halum City. Now we're going to get into some population. 45,000 people. They hold 30 38 dogs.

They're a quarter full today. Northson Hills, three times the amount, 75,000 people. They have 60 dog kennels, 21 cats. They're 3/4ers full. Remodel Carolton, 135,000 people. They have 60 dogs, 33 cats. As far as being on a ballot, I recommend this being squashed and we look into viable resources for a one two-year rehab or remodel. I believe we need to focus our taxpayer money on our streets. Note, I said streets, not bridges and roundabouts. this economy and what other cities around us are doing. We are not Fort Worth. Let's do a $12 million remodel and keep it off the ballot.

Thank you. Thank you, Miss Patterson. Um, that's all I had except I think we have one more right here. All right. I cannot read your name. I saw you up there, but you can Oh, I know who you are, but introduce yourself. Go ahead. Sorry if you're tired of me. That's okay. [laughter] Um, I I wasn't really planning on speaking, so sorry. Um, I spoke a couple of weeks ago and it was Introduce yourself just for the

My name is Siobhan Lily. I've lived here for about 20 years. Um, I did speak a couple of weeks ago, so I'm not going to bore you all with the the same thing, but I'm going to raise my questions so that Quorum can hear them. Um, one of the big concerns that I had, um, watching the speech from a couple of months ago when they made their first presentation was that, um, the facility, um, was designed kind of similarly to Carolton's um, but that we needed a much larger facility um, and that Carolton has a population of 135,000, which is four times the amount that Sagena has at buildout. So, I didn't understand why we would need one that was so large. Um I am curious to know um you know if Quorum is incapable of designing a shelter that would be 10 to 12,000 square feet that would operate efficiently. Um I did some research online and I you know chat GPT it and it based on Sagena and it look it told me that Sagena has a great return to owner rate and said you know our workers are obviously doing things right. They're working very efficiently. we don't have to keep as many animals as maybe another city that our is our population would. Um and so based on the number of animals that we have average per year, um it suggested that we have an 8,000 ft square foot facility. Um 10,000 would be a long-term plan and 12,000 ft would actually be if we were supporting other cities. So, it really just does seem like what this proposal is very um big compared to what we need. Um I too am I work full-time, but I'm um you know, I get a 4% raise every year and my taxes are going up and um I just ask that you guys be responsible to your voters. Um you know, we we do have to think about the bonds for the city city of Sagon, but we also have to think about what the county might do and what the school district might do. it's not just one place that might put an extra

burden on us. Um, and I was, you know, pretty disappointed that when y'all did that Moscow model, there wasn't some things that could have been cut. Um, the last thing that I want to ask, um, I know a couple of people spoke tonight. Can you stand up if you spoke tonight as a um, speaker, not not an employee of Quorum? Okay. And I want you to stay standing if you live within the city of Sagen. if you pay taxes for the city of Sagenon. Okay. Thank you. And I want you to remain standing if you have a financial benefit from this shelter. Okay, that's really interesting because one of the people that was um speaking online mentioned that their clients were quorum. Um so anyway, thank you. All right.

Thank you, ma'am. Jose, come on up. Hope you all know Jose Wheelen, our manager of animal care facility.

So we are not subsidizing Fort Worth. Okay. The fact that animals do not know purple paint. They don't know trespassing. They don't know city lines. Yes, we do get animals from Fort Worth, but those animals are found as strays inside our city limits. The only time Fort Worth is allowed to bring dogs to us is if they are going to be euthanized. And that's anybody whether it's Fort Worth, Taran County, Blue Mound, whatever. I keep hearing Blue Mound being brought up. If you look at the Blue Mound numbers, the Blue Mound numbers compared to Sagenolon numbers are not even a drop in the bucket. We don't just get $3,000 from Bluemound a year. We get all inound fees, all owner release fees. Anytime an animal is brought in, microchipped, anything from Blue Mound, those fees go to us. The only thing Blue Mountain gets out of our contract is the pet registrations and the citations. Fair enough.

That should have been public info. It is public info. It's written in the contract, sir. Got it. That should have been It's on YouTube. [clears throat]

The fact that we're sitting here arguing about the space for animals in this in this city is crazy. [cough and clears throat] Okay. The animal shelter that we are currently in was opened back in 2006. To save money, myself and that gentleman right there that's fixing to retire did all the construction on the inside of that facility for the city to save money. Is that fair? We had to go do our jobs during the day and then come back and work when we had time. Okay. I hear 17,000 square feet. That's bigger than the police department. We don't need that. 18,000 that's or 18 thou or $18 million. That's too much to spend on animals. Okay. My staff works day and night. I have ACOs that monitor Facebook day and night on their time off sitting at home to make sure questions are answered about animals that are being placed up for adoption. We work with rescue groups to try to get these animals out. We are doing everything we can. the fact that we have eight staff members in our shelter right now. We are there seven days a week. There is somebody at that facility seven days a week taking care of those animals. How many other departments in here can say that? There's not one other than the fire department and the police department. We come in on our holidays. We come in on our time off to make sure that the animals that need medication are given medication after hours. Okay. If anybody in this room would like to take a tour of the animal shelter, my information is on the city website or you can come by the shelter and see me.

That's all I have to say. Thank you, Jose. Quick. So, and I bring this up. Anybody who comes to drop off an animal, you [clears throat] all check and if they're Fort Worth, you turn them away, right? We get phone calls from Fort Worth all the time. They're referred to Fort Worth Animal Control. We've had people as far as Dallas bring dogs to us and they're turned around at the door and sent back to Dallas. We get calls from Sagenol, Michigan. And as much as I love telling them, hey, I'll be up there in four or five days, you know, I do what I can, [snorts] we handle the city of Sagenol only and we handle the city of Blue Mountain. Mhm.

And we don't just so that since this is open record and we I mean open for the only time we go into Blue Mound for like a dog is if they call, right? They call a complaint or something, right? We get paid $3,000 of dollars a year to do the Blue Mound contract. That's whether we run calls over there or not, right? The amount of police calls we get from Sagenov versus Blue Mound is astonishing. Yeah. Okay. I was in Blue Mountain twice this week and both of those were for animal at large. Right. That's what that's a majority of the time we're here in Sagenol. Right.

When we first started doing the Blue Mountain contract, it was twice a day for the first couple years to get it under control. All right. So, I mean, we've only had that contract what going on three or four years now. We went from 1,500 to 3,000 plus any impound fees, owner releases, and stuff like that.

Appreciate it. Thank you, Jose. Appreciate it. All right. So, that's that's all the folks I had to speak on this. Hey, Mr. Mayor, I don't want to pull a John David Pete and I I will gladly leave the meeting afterwards if the council wants me to, but one of the people that spoke up here tonight um doesn't live in Sagenot and she does work for Quorum. We have the screenshots of her own comments. I do not work for Well, then why' you tell residents taxpayers that you do and your LinkedIn and your Facebook say that you live in Fort Worth? Got it. Indirectly, you work for them. Thank you. Got it. Okay. All right. Let's The second point that I

Thank you. You've had your hand. Thank you. Please. So now I don't want to get into argument here. Everybody got a chance to talk and I appreciate everybody talking. So we don't need to argue over this. We just get the fact. The second part is why are our numbers so inflated if we don't take in anything from any other city. It doesn't explain the math. So all right. So anybody who hasn't spoken one one quick thing. Well hold I want somebody I want to see if any Mr. Patterson, I want to see if anybody else has has needs to speak. I do have an issue on on this quorum. I I needed to get my glass case. Anyway, uh nowhere do they talk about how much this architect's making and all this. That should be upfront right now in front of everybody.

I think Lee can answer that. So, and and then the other thing that I got a problem with is when somebody doesn't show up for a meeting, that's too comfortable. Their boss should show up. We got a business to run here. Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Lee, just answer the

Yeah. Um the the contract that uh Kim's working under um was like I specified to do an assessment, a reassessment and evaluation of the original animal arts needs assessment and cost estimates and produce an updated cost estimate and some floor plans which you saw tonight. Uh the contract I believe called for a maximum of $28,000 which is pretty much par for um consultation of that expertise for for what she has provided. Actually has gone probably way beyond what the scope of the the original contract actually asked for. But that's the maximum and that's what she's being paid. There is no other money that will exchange hands in regard to this needs assessment or the floor plans.

All right. Thank you, Lee. All right. We're going to move on to 3C, animal shelter advisory board recommendation. Joe Stout is here. Welcome. Welcome, sir.

I apologize for being a little late to the meeting tonight. I I think you need to build an overpass over those train tracks on Mroy. That's add add that to your work session. But yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight on behalf of the animal services advisory committee and uh I I'm going to reintroduce myself a little bit because the fact is I don't live in Sageno but I want to tell you who I am and why I'm here. Um I'm Joe Stout, chair of the animal services advisory committee and I'm also the state required animal welfare organization representative on the committee. the state requires that you have somebody from a, you know, a nonprofit organization or an organization that's an experts in animals. I'm also president of a nonprofit organization, Mid City's Community Cats, that provides trap, neuter, vaccinate, return for approximately a thousand unknown stray feral cats every year. I live in Collieville and I also serve on the Collieville Park and Recreation Board, among other things that I'm involved in. I'm also a member of the Texas Humane Legislation Network and in that capacity I interact with congressional offices who have districts here in Tarant County mainly supporting animal friendly legislation at the state level. This includes things for cats and dogs but also gets into dog fighting and fighting and a lot of things. And this organization has passed a lot of really really good laws in its 50y year history. I wasn't always involved with cats and animal issues. I worked for Loheed Martin Corporation for 40 years, mostly doing media relations and other public communications from to promote the F-16, the F-22, and the F-35 fighter aircraft. The mission then was to support military

services with the best possible war fighting equipment and to bring jobs to the Fort Worth area. And we did a pretty good job of it. But the mission now is to support the animal services staff with a modern efficient shelter and to improve life for the dogs, cats, and other animals that will go through the shelter for many years to come. Hopefully on their way to forever adoptive loving homes. Yes, I'm uh from outside, but maybe that gives me some insight to Sagenol that maybe y'all don't don't think about much. Sagenol is a relatively small town, but it packs a big punch. Through the work of dedicated citizens, the city council, and the city staff, you've created an attractive community with big city amenities within a smaller suburban environment. After forward-looking visionary planning and development, you recently added a new public library and senior center. You already have an excellent recreation center. In fact, when the Collieville was looking at a new uh recreation center plan a couple years ago, I sent them over here to look at your your recreation facility because I thought it was a great model for, you know, for what they could have. You have a great aquatic center. So, Sagenol has done a lot excellent job of providing for its citizens, especially young people and seniors. The amenities you have for them today are something that you can be very proud of. But what have you done for animals in terms of facilities? Not much. Sadly, if you visited the current shelter, and we've heard quite a few remarks about it tonight, it's not something that Sagenol would be proud of. Not to say that everything is is bad. You know, the TR TNR policy in Sagenol is really really progressive and

commendable. And as someone else has mentioned, Jose Wland and his animal services team do an incredible job with the with the limited resources that they have. But it is time to give them a new shelter. It needs to be a state-of-the-art animal shelter that will enhance public health, safety, and the local economy. We've had some uh really insightful speakers tonight that have already talked, so a lot of great details on that. Today's best shelters go beyond. Yes, in the 50s or 60s it was housing animals usually until you euthanize them and put them down. That is not what shelters are about anymore. Shelters today provide healthier conditions, natural light, uh they reduce animal stress, and that all leads to more adoptions, more volunteers, and just overall comprehensive pet support. Now, you know, we already had people raise their hands about how many uh people have pets. There are a lot of pets and you know, and that that people own. People love their animals. But a lot of people are also irresponsible. They let the animals go. And so it's it's a it's a necessary service. It's something that you that you've got to have. And you need as as we've talked about a lot tonight, you need a center that does it does it right. And they can also be centers for public education. Hence the training room that has been uh been talked about and mentioned several times uh from previous city council meetings. I I've really sensed there a desire for the animal services advisory board to be to be fully involved in this process and these recommendations. And I will tell you we have been at every step of the way. Uh going back to shortly after I

first joined the board, we participated in the animal shelter workshop that kicked this effort off. I believe it was early 2023 almost three years ago. And in that I learned a lot about shelters, about what is needed. And uh other members of the committee were there and and then more recently uh when the 2025 bond uh package was being uh put together, members of our committee were on that bond committee and uh animal shelter came out at the top of the list even though it didn't get included included in the bond. um this uh presentation that Kim gave tonight and that was a little different tonight but I've seen that presentation five times now. Okay, we have been thoroughly involved and some comments tonight about the Moscow model which by the way is not anything I'd ever heard of before working at Loheed Martin. didn't recognize Moscow very much but uh but anyway [laughter] but um you know when we went through that yeah it's true that we didn't we we did you know really talk about can we take this out or can we move this down the list and it's true we didn't do much because we had already been through a workshop we've already been through two different architects doing their studies and recommendations on this talked about it at length so yeah what you've got in the plan now is what you actually need in a new shelter. So that's right. We didn't we didn't really take anything and just kick it to the curb. Um there's been now I want to talk about social media. There's been a lot of discussion about these shelter plans on social media including a lot of disinformation. Frankly, now as a retired communications executive and professional, I I fully realize the benefits of social media when it comes to getting people informed

and getting them engaged. But unfortunately it also creates a forum where u a few people can have a really big voice and they can confuse things and and maybe for you the elected officials make your job a lot more difficult because you know you you you see these things and you think well how many people out there feel that way. Well, as as Mary said tonight, I think I think people in Sagenol will support a bond election for a new shelter, and I think people understand the value of it. U and as uh as Councilman Lawson said, it's true, you do need to do real due diligence on a on a project this big, but how many years does it have to go on? How much more do we have to do? I mean, we have studied this thing in in extensive detail and we've, you know, we've had the best experts give us recommendations and nobody's getting anything out of this. I'll tell you what, I come over here to to Sagenol. Spent quite a few hours here and quite a few hours in between meetings and it's it's not an easy drive from that's why I was late tonight. I'm not getting anything out of this. I'm doing it because I care about the animals. And uh you know, I I happened to meet Jose and he told me he needed somebody on the shelter advisory committee from a a welfare organization. I said, "Sure, I'm glad to do it." But yeah, what I I get nothing out of this other than that. And you know, the the pleasure of knowing that I'm doing something to help to help animal welfare here. So, uh the agenda item was, you know, what does the animal shelter advisory committee recommend? And so we ask uh tonight and we recommend that you put this to the voters in Sagenol and put it on for a bond election.

Thank you. Any questions for Joe while he's up here?

Bre. Yeah. Could you speak just for a moment to the um validity or or not of the uh the number of kennels that is in the current plan and how that compares to population? Is is there a a difference a reason why we need more uh per capita than uh other cities of similar size? I I'm just trying to I'm trying to wrap my mind around um I'm not disagreeing. I'm I'm not and I'm not agreeing. Um I just I I want to understand um why the the discrepancy or or other people just not looking at it correctly.

Kim Kim or Jose may be better to answer that than I am. Uh, one one thing I can tell you right now is is some of the other cities around us right now are having outbreaks of disease in their shelters. Fort Worth is my my daughter this week has tried to foster puppies from Fort Worth twice. Every time she goes over there, the puppies are sick. Okay. Also know the cats are sick. uh the Bedford shelter which you know sadly they need a new shelter too obviously but but all you know they're not taking in cats right now the animals are sick so I I I think when you try to crowd things too much and that's that's what happens but but Kim do you have any could you add something about why they why sagenol needs that many kennels

a lot of it is just based off of your population your hold times so I know Carolton has come up many times already about Can you hear me better now? Yeah.

Okay. So, just doing those comparisons. Carolton was designed in 2008. So, when you take that and you're looking at that with today's numbers, that's where you're seeing a lot of the discrepancies. You got to take, you know, do a deep deeper dive than just social media chat GBT to do these comparisons. So, if we wanted to do a true comparison, we could reach out to City of Carolton right now, take a look at their intake. We are currently actually working with them right now for their new addition. So, that would be an easy task that we could do to do a true apples to apples comparison to see where their intake is to see what their hold times are. Because if you have a difference in a hold time, let's just say two weeks versus at 30 days versus 6 months, you're going to see a good variation. With Quorum, what we do is we look at this in more detail of not just the overall average. We break it down to percentages. You know, some of these dogs are only here for two weeks and maybe only two two to 5% are here for those six months. We're not using that six months for everything. So, we've already dialed that back to truly see what they get if that kind of helps. But, we can do true true comparisons for you, but we just need to know where you want to see where you want to compare those to so we can do those deeper dives. We don't mind helping out city of Sagenot to do that.

And and I think that our animal services probably does a better job than most cities um through necessity. They have to uh to be able to manage what what they currently have. Um, so I think where we end up, we could sufficiently account for the uh animals that are being brought in on a smaller kennel size than what other cities would require um just because of of the job that they're able to do and the turnaround that they're able to to make. And I wonder if those uh considerations were put into this as well

for the actual size of the kennels themselves.

No, the number of kennels uh in comparison to the the staff that we have. Um I think that they're going to be able to do a better job with the same size kennel. They're going to be able to get more animals through because of of the job that they're performing. And so, uh, I'm just wondering if if that um was taken into consideration when figuring out like um if we have a 25 if we have a city that has 25,000 people and they're running through a certain number, um, I would say our staff's going to be able to to get more animals through uh in in the same number of kennels than other cities. So they're more efficient. But, uh, if we're if we have three times the the kennel space of a similarly sized city, I'm just not I'm not following the

I I I I understand what you're saying, but I have a lot of concerns with it because, you know, I'm involved with the organization Midas Community Cats, and we deal with about 12 cities where we've been in their shelters and we interact with them all the And um they all have different policies and I would say they have different records as far as what their outcomes are and uh you know maybe a city is getting by with fewer uh fewer kennels. How many dogs are they putting down? What's their live release rate? You you don't know that. Um that would be something I'd be very concerned about. Uh, also I think that if you went around and talked to all these cities that have been using examples, probably all of them would tell you they need more shelter space than what they have. And you know, because we hear all the time on the cats that that oh, this shelter is not taking cats anymore because they're full. And we we have every day we have people contacting us saying, "Hey, we've my mother passed away and we've got a cat. Can you help us find a place for which is not what we do at Missy's Community Cast. We're I mean, we're Australian feral cats. We don't do pet cats, but you know, we we try to figure out how we can help those people. And what we hear everywhere we go is, "Oh, the shelter's full. They're not taking they're not taking any animals." So, I I don't know, Brack. I I'd be really concerned before I I think we we do need, as uh as Kim said, need to do some more deeper study on that before we could really draw that conclusion. And and also I I don't think it's, you know, we all agree that that Jose and his staff are doing doing a great job. Should we penalize them for that by saying, "Hey, you get few fewer uh fewer kennels because of that." I I don't think that's right.

Fair. Other questions for Joe? Yeah. Well, one of one of the things that we keep we've heard is population versus kennels. It it isn't matching up. So, you know, let's say Sageno has 25,000 people and we got 15 kennels. That's what they said. You know, I'm just using numbers. Okay. Where you get somebody who has say say 50,000 and they got the same amount of kennels. It's not adding up. So, that that's what I don't know. I got Well, do they live in apartments or do they live do they have like two acres where they have a bunch of dogs running around? I mean, that's another thing. There's so many different there's so many variables in this. I don't think you can just

Right. But somehow we have to because people look at and they look at how many different knobs you got. So the per they have less kennels because they euthanize their animals and and and we don't. Uh they got less kennels because they're able to uh uh instead of a a a 20ome day cycle time or a 30-day cycle, they can do it in 15 days. I that's kind of what we need to do. Somehow I need to I need to average the data and say this is why these numbers are different. That's fair. Yeah. All right. Any other questions for Joe? I don't want to keep him here. Anything else? Thank you, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it, Joe. Appreciate it.

All right. More to come. So, moving on to 3D presentation, discussion on depot building, our soon to be retired chief building official, Larry Little. I'm glad we get to hear from you one last time, buddy. Let's hope so. No, I I appreciate all the comments earlier. I I do appreciate it. Let's see if I can get this going here. And I And with all you've given tonight, all the information, I This is the last presentation I I really hate to bring to you because it's it's always about money. Everybody's always want more money, but this is about decisions more than anything. What's going to have to be done here. So, we get this going here. All right, Larry, hold up a second. Let's these people clear out so we can hear you. Okay, you got it.

Wait, wait about 30 seconds. You're taking it to Missouri so we can come hang out with you. Everyone I have a anybody knows me knows I have an open door policy. You come, I will house you. I promise you that. Show me. [laughter] But he didn't say we would leave. He just said we could. You can absolutely live. Come on. He'll put you to work probably. H that I will do. I've got a lot of work to do. Uh or let's let Chief close the door and then we'll Does anybody know the proper name? Is it Kosy or Casi? We hear everything. Who would say the name of this? How would you pronounce it? Anybody? Kasi, Texas or Cozy, Texas. Where is it? Where's it located? I've never heard of it. Of course, Waco East Texas. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Good. Go. So, just giving you a little background on the train depot station itself. It is It was built in 1870 from Coy, Texas. That's where it was originated. See if we can go here. Man, you want [laughter] Yeah, you're good. Uh, Kosates the birthplace of Bob Wills. Interesting fact about it. The king of the western swing. And I'm going to try to go through these quick. You got a lot to go through tonight. Um, go ahead. Huh? Yeah, I'm trying. I'll do it again. Side, right?

Technical difficulties. Bear with us. So anyway, uh Osley, uh John Wesley Harden, the infamous, uh and deadly gunslinger, was actually shooting outside this uh the uh train depot. I spent a lot of time, uh talking to the historian in uh in Coy, and uh it was interesting. I had no idea that the actual place we re uh reside our business in. It was amazing. Um, the Coast Depot built in 870 was a major hub for the Houston and Texas Central Railroad and service the cotton and cattle industries in the area. Huge shipments of cotton were shipped to the Gulf of Mexico. Areas of the railroad were shipped to Swift Company and Armor Meat Companies in Fort Worth. The depot houses agents and ticket office at Union Telegraph office, the Wells Fargo Express Room, and the Freight Warehouse. The Coy Depot was moved to Fort Worth in 1979 to Meechum Boulevard and became the Merkantil station and was restored to become a luxurious conference room and office space owned by the Merkantil Bank. With a lot of hard work and dedication to the depot, it was relocated to Sagenol in 2000 and became the Sagenol Area Chamber of Commerce. In 2019, the depot become the office for the building department and code compliance. Below are a few images of the building history and locations of the folks that made it possible for the city of Sagenol to own such a piece of history. This is in Coasty, Texas in 1979 before it was moved. This is also the same image in 1979. This is its after being restored. It was moved to uh Meechum Boulevard here in Fort Worth. This is an image of it at finished. This is the moving that took place and the undergoing of getting this to snow. Uh you you obviously know the snow movers. They they were they were

involved in the movement from Coasty, Texas to Meechum and Mechum to here. I did spend a lot of time with Frank Rosselle who was a big part of all this. I 20 minutes of that was awesome because I had no idea. I just want to give a shout out to Frank because he had a lot to do with this and I don't think anybody realizes what they did to pull this off to actually bring this to Sagenol because it didn't cost Sagenol from my understanding a dime. This is part of the movement coming through the old M uh on Mroy. This is the building when it was set. This is the building as of today with our new ADA ramp. Thank you, council. These are some of the folks that made all this happen. There are pictures of uh Mr. Elkins, uh Bud Starns, Frank Rosselle, Nan Stanford's in this picture. You can see behind uh JD Johnson, a big one. Just a few of these. I don't I don't know that this is all, but I know that these pictures represent a lot of folks that made this happen. That is Nan, I believe, if anybody's got I think that's Nan in the front there. Uh but a shout out to all those folks. I mean, who gave us this rich history? The positive is the location, significant history with the building, warm and inviting building, great place for city offices. I didn't put that on economic development, but that was a tossup. Somebody gave me that idea, so there's your shout out. Great references of Sagenol's history, training grain. The good thing is it's got a renewable lease. I have talked to BNSF. Our uh contract currently expires in 20 July 26 of 2030. I have an email saying we have a great relationship with them and if we need to, they would be gladly at this point to extend that. So, roof replaced in 2019, new accessible front egress ramp, the two HBA systems are fairly modern, electrical systems in good shape, plumbing systems in good working condition at this time. Thank you, public works, Randy Newsome.

Parking currently exceeds the parking requirements, irrigated landscape. Negatives on this is we are underground lease. Obviously, we don't own the ground it sits on. We own the building. So, we are responsible for the building and if we decide to move it, we have to take the land back the way it was original. So, keep that in mind. Uh needs upgraded accessible egress to the rear of the building. Sighting needs some attention. Rotted boards and trim we're aware of. Wood windows are needing to be replaced, showing signs of deterioration. Would recommend vinyl to to help back the co, you know, cut the cost. uh overall building inside and out needs to be reccocked. The floors need to be refinished. Building needs to be brought up to ADA standards. All the decking around, rear north side of the building needs to be replaced. Access is currently closed off to the public due to safety concerns, but that is why we have the new ramp up front. Uh parking lot access and egress can be challenging at times. That is a negative there. It is hard to get out there even in the evenings. We sometimes wait to get out to get off work. Exterior bathrooms need to be remodeled or my recommendation would to be eventually demoed. They're they're not utilized and they constantly cause problems. We've had vandalism there. So, um this is the building as I'm just going to show you some shots. That's the decking that just some of the images that Chief felt we should share that you can see where it needs attention. Uh we do have rotted boards around it. Um again, rot and trim trim work that needs to be replaced. Uh, some of the windows definitely showing signs. We're getting water into into a few of the windows. Um, I will just take you through this quick. The ramp obviously is closed due to safety concerns. We constantly have people up there. They're busting the rails. That's just the thing. Even though it's closed off, they jump up there. And that's Do you still have the non-paying rental underneath?

I do not, but I wish I had him back because maybe he could stop some of this. shots from underneath and and again the over just to move this building. I'll go through this in a minute, but it is going to be a uh very expensive project if that's what you decide to do to relocate the D. We have tried and I apologize because I know Nick, you're one of the ones that's always said I want numbers. We have tried for two months to get hard numbers. There are very few companies that can pull this off. Snows have closed their business. Gary came out here and spent some time with us though and brought another individual. They're working on getting bids. The hard part right now is to get hard prices for moving the utilities and the traffic lights because that will have to be done along with the trees. You're going to love this in the median on Longhorn will have to be removed to get it if we were going to move it to the to the to the park. Uh I just put in here real quick and I will print all this off so y'all can go through this. There's so much to go through y'all have left tonight. I don't think it's it's there's a lot to this. Uh but I will give you the list of everything that needs to be done. We will need to be will currently getting bids working on bids on to do all this. It is a major undertaking. Uh, I've had guesstimates of maybe north of $400,000 to pull all this off because you've got to remember you've got to have new utility under underground utilities, fiber, uh, sewer, parking lot, sidewalks, egress out the back will have to be considered. So, if you move it, that is something you'll be having to look to. But that's the presentation. I didn't want I just kind of wanted to give you an idea of what you're looking at in the future. And uh it has been an honor and a pleasure to work with every one of you and I do appreciate everything y'all do.

Any question? Don't don't sit down yet. Any questions for our our soon to be retired uh chief building officer? See, I I had a question, Larry. I heard that at some point the railroad was going to make us move. Is that not true? Is that not I Everyone I've talked to is not aware of that. Okay. They're not looking at that at all. And I've spoken to the vice president of the real estate part of it. I and I have those emails and I have put those emails aside and I will leave Chris copies of those that we can refer back to. But uh no, there I I believe I don't think there'd be a problem renewing this and that may be something we want to look at maybe sooner than when it's due just to be able to buy you some more time. Okay. But it's a great building.

Want us to move in further? What would they do with that land? Just you know what I mean? It's the railroad. They do whatever they want. Yeah, absolutely. There was talk they put another I'd heard one time they put another line through there and it was getting encroaching. That's what I heard too. For safety issues, they said they if they're I mean I'm happy with it staying as long as the rail is not going to kick us out. That's what I was afraid of. So the road's not going to kick us out. We've got some option. We got some time. Abs. Absolutely. I think the biggest concern with some of the folks that I talked to that were a part of this originally was please don't tell us the Sagen Hall is going to get rid of this building. you know, so I think it's something we should consider maybe to how to how to house that. I appreciate you. So, Sean, go ahead.

Question. Um, as long as I've been here, since 2008, I've always wanted to go in that green and red train, right? And so I just would be curious if we could turn that into like a tourist stop and at some point maybe share like some kind of revenue with the the with BNSF as a way of continuing that lease and have a better relationship and have something that is an iconic sagen bring people in type of thing. It's going to help with with the e economy. So the trains that's a whole another expense too but I will tell you the inside of those trains are not in the greatest condition. what you're seeing. It would take some re some serious renovation

and there I think BNSF would tell you there are some serious u I think I that might be an issue having the public go down there because I've in our contract currently that uh Mr. Flippo signed back in I think 2020. There is talk of offense there and I think that's something we might when we go to do this contract try to get them to put because of staff that works there. I can tell you it is a constant battle to see kids get out of the cars and they run right up to the tracks. So, uh something to think about if we're going to do that. But, uh

yeah, I just remember as a kid going to Alabama and getting to go on the battleship and and seeing that and it was really cool and it was definitely not something that I would let kids do just free. Yeah. Um, you know, but but with parent supervision, I think it would be something really cool if we could do something with that building. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Any other questions for Larry? Thank you. Thank you all. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. All right. Moving on. Next, we're at 3E. Discussion regarding ordinance related to carports. Who's going to kick us off with that, Gabe?

Yeah. Uh I think uh council member had a desire to uh have the discussion. We have the draft document that Bren worked on based on Nikki's direction. So I can I can kick it off. Go ahead, Nick.

So we've we we have several mainly these are over in old Sag [clears throat] where the carports are bigger than what our current uh space will allow and stuff. And so, uh, there's there's there's a few of them, not a lot, but there is a few of them. We've we've run into it a few times. We've, uh, probably it's been two years now we've been trying to figure out how to do it. And it's really come down to it. It needed an ordinance change in order to bring everybody into compliance. And, uh, like like I like you said, I've been working with Brent and we came up with two two changes. B, which we'll mark out the uh the one where it says a square footage and it'll just say that there's no maximum. And just as an FYI to everybody, we have another ordinance that says, I don't know which ordinance is off top my head, but me and Brent was looking at it that says you can only have so much of your property and it's up to 50% under roof. So, there's an ordinance already there. You know, this one just gives you smaller spaces. And then the next big change is is that you can extend into the the sideyard into that uh easement. But if you do extend into the easement, you have to have an agriculture you have to have a a drainage study done and it has to have uh gutters on it that get make sure that the water doesn't go over onto the neighbors. And so that would then with those two with a drainage study and them already having to put uh gutters on would stop any drainage then from going any excess water going on to their neighbors property. And with those two that would solve it. And so the ask from u from us is I guess is if you all have any anybody else on council has any

questions concerns with this. If not, then I guess it would go to PNZ. I got a question. Um, so we're going to allow them to encroach into the setback. Why do they need to do that? Why is that a good idea? It it doesn't hurt. I mean I mean we we already have we already have carports that do this over in Old Sagenol. Well, should they? Because what if you're if I have a carport and you have a carport and they touch. That's not that's not a good situation. What are we going to do in those cases? If you we can both build to the setback to our property line. We're going to be right up on top of each other. How you going to fix that?

There are actually there's there's one specific I can remember over in Old Sagal in that same neighborhood that has two carports that connect and the neighbors park underneath both of them. It's a mutually agree agreeable situation. They're good neighbors and um so I mean I I living in a in a place where we are free to do those things I think would be beneficial.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess my thing is when when I look at an ordinance the city okay so not an HOA HOA can set stricter ordinances but when you look at a city and I look at the city and what the city should put on their citizens the number one thing is safety. Okay. Are we the ordinances there are due to a safety concern? Then the next one is if it really then puts the their citizenship at a huge disadvantage and and it doesn't the these two don't. And so unless it's unless it's that then I think a citizen should be allowed to do within reason anything they want to on their property. And if two citizens want to have two things that come up right next to each other does if they're good with it's their property. Why should I care? And if I do care about things like that then I should go live in an Hoya. And I'm perfectly happy people live in NHS.

So I guess my question is what if the what if the neighbors don't agree? I mean they they might not be best friends and they build up next to there's a lot of problems there. So I I guess if they build right up next to each other then they wouldn't normally well they're going to touch or they could touch. I mean one does it have to come the setback. I guess that's my question. What's what's the problem with cutting it in? What's a setback? So three feet two feet. Yeah. This the I think the setback What is the setback? Do you know Larry by chance? The sideyard setback. I know at one point in time it was five feet all the way around the property. Really depends on where you're at. Okay.

We have five foot, we have 7 and 1/2 ft. Uh yeah, there there's quite a few elements there. I will I would just for a moment I would like to kind of give you some insight on that. I know you think there's a couple ordinances we have to change, but you're also going to have to change the building and fire code, which I don't think that's what you want to do. Those codes are there for a reason for separation. And I just kind of want to remind the council too of how many times I've been called over my career that there are buildings or structures being built too close to the property line. And this comes from citizens and council members. Can you go investigate this? And I I won't call any names, but there has been several. And if they're too close to the property line, we move them. putting two car ports because remember that we changed the ordinance recently in July and we it was voted on unanimously that we all agreed the size, we all agreed the setbacks. Most importantly, if you were to take the wood carports you can now build and as you said, Mr. Mayor, you build two side by side, you've just broke every rule there is. You've c you've actually put more of a ha more of a potential of a hazard onto the citizens because now you have a fire. You're in the fire business, Paul. Fire will spread. So I I would I would I would caution you to change something that's going to allow it to go to a sideyard. That's just my opinion. I've been in this business. This is what you hired me to do. We look out for fire and safety. I know talking to Chief Spears, his concerns are the same way. What are we going to do? How do firemen get to fight a fire if there's two carports side by side and you've got to get to the back to rescue? What are they going to do to get apparas equipment in there? I think these are things we're not thinking through. We're just trying to solve one problem out there. There are carports that are out there. As you said, there's one that's built completely across property lines. I can promise you that that carport never had a permit just like the one we're speaking of. There is

a few out there. None of the carports that go to the sideyards because there's not a carport out here that's built was built before 1959. None of those that are crossing uh encroaching the sideyard were ever legal. And I think even Bren weighed in on this. They may they may be there but it doesn't make them a legal carport. That's the problem. That's what you're fixing to do to solve one problem. You're creating so many more. And I would encourage you to really think about this. I get what you want to do. I'm the same way. If you know me, I I I kind of like to be able to do it on property. But is it fair to me to put other property owners in danger because of putting other property owners in danger? I'm don't buy the fire thing. Okay. Well,

yeah, that's Mary, you have something. Go ahead. Um, like Larry said, we have these ordinance for a reason. I don't think that we should change an ordinance to correct a very unique issue of one person in the city. And we've we've kind of come close to doing that before and we've kind of made some

uh concessions in other cases and I don't think we need to be watering down ordinances because one extremely unique situation which would probably never happen again to satisfy one individual. We made we need to make decisions based on the entire city and you let one person slide like that or you change an ordinance just because of one issue. Uh and the other thing about there would have to be a study done with the water drainage and all that kind of stuff that is an additional uh [clears throat] our staff is already overworked. We do not need to add more work to our staff.

They don't the staff don't do it. I had to have this done when I had concrete board to my uh project. It's allowed and I had to go get a study. I had to get a PE, professional engineer sign off on it. And then it's called a wet stamp and then you present that to the city. The city doesn't do any work other wet stamp and they say, "Okay, he got the study done." Well, the I know that for a fact because I had to have it done. That's not exactly the way it works, but you are you are correct. You did. You did. You had to do it. But it did get looked at by an engineer. It wasn't our It wasn't our It gets done by a professional engineer.

I understand. No, M. I'm not arguing that I'm not arguing that at all. No, I'm not arguing that at all. You're 100% right. And to your point, absolutely. How if you're asking staff to let someone build to the property line without a survey, how do we know where that property line is? A fence doesn't indicate a property line. And that's one of the biggest concerns we talked about. How can we deal with this? So, we're going to have to require them to have a survey, not just a boundary surgery. Where where is the actual sideyard at? Because what happens if we allow them to build over that? Who's who's responsible for that? Because we passed an ordinance saying they could do it. So, we have to check that. There's going to have to be checks and balancing.

What happens? Citizens get arguments over where the fence is built. Right now, I exactly what city does. city says that's a civil thing and they have to take city doesn't get involved. So there you go. There's your answer. But we have an ordinance in place where the fences go. So but if we put an ordinance in place, no difference than than I'm just trying to give you some ideas of what staff is going to be looking at to have to do this, especially if two two carports go side by side. We've just created a fire hazard. I mean, we honestly have. Yeah. I think we've got a lot of questions here we've not answered. And I don't like adding more safety issues. I think that's just bad um bad policy. I would not support that at all. Um I don't see why we can't honor a setback of some sort and that's what they're there for. I think that makes a lot of sense.

My thing is take it to P&Z. If they pass it, it comes to us and you get your one vote. Well, I I I don't I don't agree with it going forward. I have a lot of questions going forward with issues that we're going to cause um just by this this potential ordinance. So, I I have a lot of issues and I I could not support it in its current form at all. So Grant, if we want this to go to PNZ, we need to vote today. Yeah, I would. So just let me know when you want the motion made. I have. Mary, go ahead. Another comment. You mentioned that there are a few a few carports that are larger than what our ordinance states.

You know, those are grandfathered in. We don't change an ordinance to make that okay that somebody built something incorrectly long time ago. We don't change the ordinance for a few carports that are not meeting those requirements. Well, if if those if those car ports were damaged and had to be taken down, I believe they should follow the new ordinance requirements. Well, it's like any other structure in the city. We have an ordinance put in for non-conforming once they are no longer existing. You don't just let them go back because they were there. And that's the whole purpose of

the other point is that he this individual did go to the board of adjustment. They made their decision that it was not a hardship for him to build per our ordinance. So, you know, there are situations where it may have been a hardship to follow the ordinance. In this particular case, our board of adjustment said it was not. And if we try to second guessess what our board of adjustment has determined, what are we saying? We're saying, "Oh, well, we don't, you know, we don't have to go along with what your decisions are." Yes, we do. In my opinion,

well, why would we have a board of adjustment if we aren't going to honor their decisions? And the carport could go another direction. It doesn't have to go to the side property. It could go the other way because the only other requirement would be you have to put parking space there, you know. So, it's not that we can't go bigger in carports. We could if that was your decision. But the sideyard to me is is a concern that just as a somebody that's been in the building industry for a long time. That's a concern. And there's there's not any other cities you're going to find that let carports go to the side property line. I I I challenge you to find that. I've challenged you to find many cities now that are allowing carports at all in the front building setback. Most of them don't. Thank I appreciate your input. Absolutely.

Very good. Um any other questions from council? I have one person that wants to speak on this before we council have any other questions. Deborah, you want to come up? Deborah Thomas wanted to speak on this.

Thank you, council. Mayor, I live in a neighborhood that was affected by the change in this ordinance. My neighborhood did not allow carports and now they do. I didn't I wasn't in favor of that happening. I didn't speak, but I'm here now tonight to speak against this. This is not I I don't want my neighbor to have a carport. They can. I certainly don't want it to go up to the property line. My neighborhood is has a five foot setback. So, I only have five feet, right? I don't want and feasibly if there's carport can go from property line to property line to property line to property line now you can connect the entire street feasibly legally you could do that we're not changing the 10-ft setback from behind the curb so we don't want the carport close to the city property but we don't care about your neighbor I just don't think that's right I'm I think there's a fire concern. There's a safety concern. Now, if we're having a carport go from property line to property line, now we're cutting down all the trees in the neighborhood cuz we issued a permit in the building department to a man who concreted in almost his whole front yard legally. You don't think he's going to come put a carport up over his whole front yard? I bet he is. I just don't think that's the look. It's not the look I want in my neighborhood. It's not the look I think the city wants. Um I think the this is the fourth time this ordinance has been up here in what two years. I think the ordinance we have now meets the we took it out of the BOA. I mean, we took it out of the planning and zoning special

SU because of the cost. We we lowered the cost, but now we're going to say you have to spend more money to hire an engineer to get your carport carport. You can't park in the grass. So, now you're going to have to extend the concrete all the way up to the property line. It's just not a good idea. and I will if this goes to the PNC I will be at that meeting and I will be back in front of you if it comes back here. Excellent. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Deborah. Appreciate it. Sure. Mary go ahead.

Um also the request to allow them to be larger. I'm opposed to that. We have a new carport in our neighborhood, not on my street, that is really very nice and it's per the new ordinance and it's attractive. However, it is overpowering even though so to me if we made them larger that would be even more of a distraction and not a good look for the neighborhood. And a lot of those neighbors in this legally built pretty beautiful new carport were extremely opposed. But of course, they did not have a legal leg to stand on. So, I I would also be opposed to the concept of making them bigger because this very nice, wellbuilt, beautiful carport to me overpowers the home and is not attractive in that in that aspect.

Thank you, Mary. Um, is there is there a structural reason or a functionality reason it needs to go up to the I guess I don't understand. Needs to go to the setback or to the property line. Is there a structural does it have to for structural reasons or is that an issue? Structural reason in in Hawai is there structurally does it have to go to the So the problem is we got we got carports not allowed we've got carports just like this now. Okay. And the city saying all those carports are illegal. So technically the city can go through and tell all of these citizens you have to tear their carpoint. That's grandfathering and we wouldn't do that. Nope. That's not correct. That's absolutely not correct. That's not what I've been told. I think I think they're they're grandfathered in. Is that correct?

How does that work? So, if if they were never permanent in the first place and they were constructed in violation of our ordinances, they would not be a legal non-conforming use. It would be an unlawful they'd be non-conforming. They'd have to tear it down at their own expense. So, but but there's no for the one we're talking about, there's no structural reason it has to go to the property line. This is just an an aesthetic choice or a I think it's a functional choice. I mean well what's the functional reason it needs to go to the property line?

The well the functional reasoning is like at my house I have a onecar driveway and if I move the driveway over in front of my house then it's literally in front of my house. I walk right out my front door into a car. Um so the only direction that I could go is toward the property line and I only have eight feet. So if I wanted to do that, I would encroach on this setback. No, I guess I understand it's still going to be it still be big enough to cover up your car. So why would you have to go farther? Is your is your drive your driveway that close to the setback or I I have a onecar drive the driveway has two feet until I'm in three feet until I'm into the setback and

the driveway is one car. So, and my garage, I don't it's a onecar garage, so I use it for lawnmowers and things like that. My laundry room is in there because it's the older part of town. And so, I can't fit a car in there and do laundry. So, the only place I have to park is the one spot. And I have a teenager who's fixing to drive soon. My wife also works, so we park on the street. And driving down the street with cars parked all up and down the sides is pretty awful. Uh, I drive through my neighborhood super slow because there's kids playing. They dart out. We don't have sidewalks. It's a concern. Um, so for me, I I don't think that we should be telling people what they can do with their property. Obviously, if there's a safety concern, I think we should try to fix that if we can, but I think that just because we don't like the way someone else's property looks doesn't mean we should restrict on what they do with it. Okay.

Are any other questions, council? No other questions. I'll entertain a motion. Mayor, I move that we uh uh present this to PNZ. Is there a second? I'll second. Second.

Please cast your votes. All right, motion passes. We'll move forward, see what happens. All right, next we are at three uh F discussion regarding bid rece the old library facility. Jared Kersy, assistant director of public works. Welcome, sir.

Good evening, mayor and council. Um I'm here tonight just to talk about the uh where we're at in the process of the library old library remodel. Um just back in November uh we went out to uh sent out for bids. Um we we got a lot of interest back on that. We received 12 bids. Um it closed December 9th. So staff is currently in the process of reviewing these bids. Um thoroughly checking references, things of that nature. Um just just as a quick reminder that this project encompassed uh totally remodeling the interior of the old library uh to create office spaces uh for for different departments throughout the city, various positions. Um it also um included a connecting corridor from the old library to city hall. Uh that connecting corridor triggered some upgrades to the city hall facility. uh fire suppression, uh fire alarm, ceiling replacements, things like that. Now, how we did propose um and required uh in the bid process, we asked all the um prospective biders to um add alternate deducts and that al those alternate deducts to the bid process was the connecting corridor and the city hall upgrades. So, we received bids of what it would cost just to do the old library remodel. We and then we also received what it would would cost with the city hall and connecting corridor. Um so um with that said um we we're currently looking through um all these bid proposals and would like to uh um u at the next uh January the January 20th uh meeting uh come to council with our recommendation off of that. Um, so I'll field any questions you may have from this

council questions for Jiren. I think 11 bids is pretty good. I'm surprised we are you surprised we got that many? Was that you expecting that many? Well, we I I actually met with 18 different contractors. So, u there was a lot of interest. A lot of interest. That's great. So, good. I like that. Yes. Council, any questions? Good. All right. Thanks, sir. Okay. I was going to ask. Oh, go ahead. Do any of them work on animal shelters? [laughter] I did not bring that up to any of this. Jared, don't we get any part of that? I understand. You stay far away from that.

Thank you, sir. All right, moving on. We are at 4A. So, at 8:48 p.m., we are in public hearing. Consideration action regarding a proposed textual amendment to the zoning ordinance regarding modifying the city peritted use table. Susie Victor Trino, assistant director of economic and community development.

Mr. Mayor and council, as a reminder, y'all saw this as part of the larger permitted use table amendment at the last city council meeting, but due to some notification requirements, the item was tabled. We decided that the off-remise parking was priority just because we have a lot of developments, especially that sagal local um that are going to utilize that. And so before you you have the parking lot off premises. As a reminder, we are proposing to allow this through an SUP, so a specific use permit in community commercial, city facilities, light industrials, and heavy industrial. And we're proposing to not have this permissible in office professional, neighborhood commercial, and neighborhood mixed use. The current ordinance is written where it's not allowed. So, we would also amend ordinance 202317 to have language that would show that the applicant can apply for a specific use permit. So, with that, if y'all have any questions, please let me know.

Uh, the fire station remodel, is that is what is that zoned? What is that going to be zoned or what is it zoned now? It's a PD with community commercial uses for land. I just wanted to make sure that we weren't going to change something that would impact that later and then we'd have to because I know that's something we talked about was the parking there was a little bit of a challenge. Um and there's probably going to have to be some off use somewhere. Yes, sir.

So, they would be allowed to enter into a contract if the adjacent uh mall or whatever you call that over their head. Yes, they would still have to have legal documentation to have a mutual access agreement if they chose to do that with their neighbor, but that would come at a later day, but they would have to apply for a specific use permit. It's not automatic. So, it's on a case- by case basis for the actual use. Yes, sir. Yes. DFW Plastics was another one. Yeah.

Yes, sir. Is there any The only risk would just be if you have uh vacant land after, you know, right now if for some reason it was saginal local favorite and then years they sell. But the good thing about an SEP is that we can put language in there to protect us so that if they move eventually or sell it off, we can have a stipulation that that is for that SUV.

Just a point of clarification, can you go over uh how the ordinance reads versus how the permitted use table uh Yes. So the current ordinance does not allow off- premise parking at all. So this would correct it in the sense that it would match that. So in addition to that, we would add that stipulation where you would be eligible to apply for a specific use permit in those four zoning categories. So it would kind of just clean everything up as well. Okay. Thank you. Other questions for Susie? And it is the public hearing. It is. Thank you ma'am. Yes sir.

Um so I do have see I need to first of all is anybody here wants to speak at the public hearing. Anyone in the audience can speak on this issue at this time. I don't have anything else. If not uh if no one wants to speak on this then at 8:52 I take us out of a public hearing and entertain motion. Mayor I make a motion we approve item 4 A public hearing.

Second. Brack second. Motion passes. All right. So, at 853, we're in the public hearing consideration action regarding a change for zoning in a planned development of 25.62 acres of property located on 112 Spring Hollow Drive and 304 East Mroy. Susie again,

Mr. Mayor and Council. So, this is going to be a two portion request, but this first portion is for a proposed plan development. So essentially at our last meeting, the applicant withdrew their application based off the city's guidance in order to request a deviation for a screening requirement because that screening requirement was going to play a vital role in being able to financially be able to move the access point, which is what the Spring Creek HOA wanted. And so the developer, the city, and the HOA have met and have been deliberating on what potential agreement can be made so that everyone is as happy as possible. Obviously, it's not going to make everyone happy um to the 100% that we always want, but it's it's a good compromise. So the developer is proposing to move the access from Spring Hollow to East Mroy and the Spring Creek HOA is also have been negotiating some other things. So with that, I I'll let Mr. Walker and the HOA president Alex speak a little bit more about their negotiations, but today we're just looking at the land use itself. So, in order to get that access point, they're going to have to obtain some land from their neighbor, Star Manufacturing, because they currently don't have any property along East Mroy. So, in order to do that, they're going to change some portions that's heavy industrial and give that to Falcon. And then Falcon is going to give some property that's community commercial to start manufacturing. So for this speedy itself, it's just the property that Falcon is going to be

owning. And another portion is the property that they're also going to be owning, but that they might sell off in the future. Um, it's zoned as community commercial. So, we're going to look at this as two separate tracks. The city was proposing all of Falcon distribution center that's currently going to be used for that use to be all light industrial. So that way we have one cohesive zoning district because that's kind of what the issue was a few years ago. Some um and so in order to do that, we're proposing the PD to be tract one light industrial track 2 community. And in addition to that, we also have language that allows this development specifically not to have additional screening requirements because the HOA currently does have a burm that has a fence. And so the burm is essentially here and their fence would be down here. So it really wouldn't screen anything. And so the developer has requested to deviate from that. But from the last PNZ, it's my understanding that they're going to be constructing a portion of the fence that doesn't exist just to connect the fence so that all of it is completely barricaded and protected. With that, Mr. Walker and Mr. Alex are here to present on their behalf. However, want to ask all if y'all have any questions for me first.

Any questions for Sue or staff? The rest of staff before the So, It's my understanding that the HOA is supportive of this. Yes, sir. Including the NO and I think they're here. They can speak on their own behalf in a minute. So, yes, sir. We'll hear from them. Yeah.

Good evening, Mayor Council. Thanks for allowing me to speak. Um, will you introduce yourself, please?

Yeah, my name is Walker White. I am with the development company Falcon Commercial Development. Um, over the last few years, we've been in here a few times. Um, but over the last year since we've started construction, obviously we've worked with city council, city staff, the HOA, and some neighbors. Um, because we kind of I think everybody knew it would be an issue, but we didn't have access to McLeeroy. So, um, you know, we've worked together with you guys, including a task force that was put together that included members of the city council, um, in exploring some different options. We explored potentially crossing over the rail line, which was not feasible. And then um we've approached, as Susie alluded to, the neighbor to the south to for a land swap agreement that we've negotiated over the last like literally it's been a year probably. Um where we would we're giving them one acre of our land that's sort of on the west side of what would be the new driveway. Um in return, we're getting a half acre of their land that's closer to Spring Hollow um on the east side of the driveway. that we would obviously it would just be community commercial. It would not be heavy industrial any longer, which they're currently using for outside storage. Um, in doing this, we would then be able to move the driveway from Spring Hollow to Mc Leroy. In order to make all of this work and this land swap agreement work, we have to do um some significant improvements to the land that we're giving to uh the metal manufacturing company because it currently the grade of our land sits well below their grade. Um, and they need it to obviously seamlessly transition with their existing business, which would require us to fill that land, grade it, and then cap it with

something similar to the gravel that they are currently using. That's kind of the um that's why we're asking for the variance on the fence because we would use those dollars to make those improvements and move the driveway. Um, I've said we've worked with the HOA um on a number of different items throughout construction over the last 12 months, including um a part of this new zoning. I believe will be um single family on the north end of our project that we are donating to that we will be deeding over to the HOA on that [clears throat] land. We will also be um installing a recreational concrete pad that they obviously have they can do what they want. I think that their plan is to put basketball goals or pickle ball nets or something like that. Um, but that will be on the land that we're deeding over to them. Um, the last item I'll touch on is as part of all of these conversations. Um the agreement with the HOA has been that we are we will absolutely install some fence that will help screen our project from I think the main concern Alex can dig in a little bit more but is the um visibility of the park where the children will play to our project. So, we've kind of come up with a budget and a amount of fence that we think would provide enough screening to protect the neighborhood, the kids, and screen the last few houses that currently don't have any screening.

Um, so I know that's a lot of moving parts, but that's sort of some context as to where all this came from. It's been a complicated arrangement, and I appreciate your flexibility. Y'all have been very good to work with. You've been very honest and open. We appreciate that. as with everybody else involved. I mean, it's obviously been a team effort with city staff, HOA, everybody. So, um, yep. Council questions. I've been was involved in several of the meetings that we had and I fully support this. Thank you, sir. Absolutely. Yep.

Alex, you want to hear from the HOA? Hi, I'm Alex Costa, president of the HA of Spring Creek. Um, it's been a journey. It's been a year now. I know we had a lot of meetings. Some went well, others not so well. Um, we came to what looks to be the best decision for everybody. The main priority was kids safety and we moved that driveway to a safer location, which we couldn't be happier with. Um I don't want to say again everything that Walker said. Um pretty much it stands as it is. The main concern we have is that three houses um will not be are not screened as it is right now by the current fence that we have. So the goal is to extend that fence which uh Falcon agreed to cover and then cover part of the land that they'll give us so kids don't have to be in direct proximity to uh the parking lot that is behind the warehouse. Um besides that most of the residents were in favor of moving the driveway. Not all of them. I think two were against it. Not everybody is happy about everything, but it seems that this is the best solution that we could come up with and we are very pleased with everybody working with us to find the best possible solution. Do you guys have questions for me?

Any questions for Alex from the HOA? Mary, go ahead. Don't be nervous. I'm not. Uh [laughter] I just wanted to commend uh all the parties involved for coming up with a unique solution that you know was a good compromise. And I know that our planning department was probably very instrumental in helping you come up with [clears throat] with that uh solution. I agree. Any other questions, folks? Thank you, sir. You're welcome. Appreciate it. I you want to say

yeah I I don't really have a question or anything. I just wanted to kind of summarize and maybe Susie you can correct me if I'm wrong but um basically what this does is this enlarges Star Manufacturing's capabilities um because they're getting an acre instead of a half acre. Um, I don't believe that uh that y'all would have uh utilized that part of the property in any meaningful way. Um, so they're gaining storage. Um, the entrance is moving off of Spring Hollow onto Mroy, which is the the best possible solution there. It moves heavy industrial off of Mroy to the back of the property. Uh so it enhances the u the view of that property. Um and it solidifies community commercial in a way that makes sense for that property. So, uh, everything with this, uh, I agree that not everybody's going to be 100% happy about everything, but from what it looks like has been accomplished has really been pretty amazing.

Yes, sir. And I did forget like Alex mentioned to for the screening deviation, we did want to make sure that the majority of homeowners were in favor of that because they would be the first ones that would be impacted just because it's right next door. And so the HOA president and his team did go knock door by door and they had a good turnout in in the sense of a lot of people did say yes. There was a few people not at home at the time, but that letter on people just signatures of 20 years from now if people ask um we made sure that the HOA pulled the people that lived there and who would be affected by that as well just to make sure that the people who are affected day and night probably would make sure that they're going to be in good shape hopefully. And so,

all right, and I do have a couple of folks that sent in forms, reply forms, uh, for both 4B and 4C. And I want to enter these into the record quickly. Uh, so this first one is from Luciano Solinus and Yolanda Cerventes. And I apologize if I'm not saying it correctly. I cannot read the writing. They are opposed. They say, "We can't see this the sun coming through anymore. Foundation problems and wall fixtures coming off the walls." I assume that's uh construction related issues. Another one is from Mr. David Hana. Uh it says initially uh it was a bad situation but the residents in HOA have spoken having read voluous correspondence is apparent that they believe that having dust will be the lesser two evils. Uh one last thought he doesn't think it will go beyond the thought he said the city has shown let's see so I'm trying to read I don't read the whole thing. Uh Max Mroy should be widened. I'll all do haste which I definitely agree. Uh so I think initially he was opposed to it but after getting more information and looking through a lot of the things he he does agree now and this is primary for 4C that's Mr. Hannah. I have another one from Paul Chicowski a homeowner says he is opposed says in Texas heavy industrial zoning refers to areas designated for intense industrial manufacturing activities that may be noxious or offensive due to significant noise, odor, smoke, dust, fumes or vibrations. These districts are typically situated away from residential and commercial areas with specific regulations to mitigate their impact on adjacent properties and that's the ones I have that's into the record. So other questions and anybody else we are in a public hearing so anybody else want to speak on this you certainly can at this time. Anybody else in the audience? If not at 9:07 take us out of a public hearing. I'll entertain a motion. Mayor, I make a motion we approve item 4B and can we do C at the same time?

That's a BR question. Have we have we open 4C? We have not. Yeah. So, we need to open it to hold the public hearing. Okay. Go ahead, Bracket. So, is it rewritten for the screening fence in as as it's written here? In this ordinance because it's posted before our meeting is met. So you would just make the or the motion with the stipulation and we have reddrafted it and showed Mr. White he wants to fix it. So we're going to just change the wording so that the city attorney is also okay with the legal verbage. I just want to make sure that included in the motion

motion we approve 4B with the amended documents. Yes. Brack second. Okay. Motion passes. So now at 9:09, we're at a public hearing 4C considering tax regarding a reszoning request from some portions of property located at 112 Spring Hollow from light industrial to single family SF3 and from community commercial to heavy industrial. Susie again,

Mr. Mayor, for this application, this is straight zoning. So, the property up north that the HOA is planning to donate or I'm sorry, that Falcon is planning to donate to the HOA, it is about a triangle shape and they're going to donate that. It's currently or it's currently industrial. So, we want to make sure that that's all single family because it's going to be donated to a single family entity. And again, just to clean up everything. That's what we're wanting to do for that portion. And then the portion that is being given to Star Manufacturing due to the land swap would just need to be heavy industrial because they're a heavy industrial entity that currently already exists. So with that, anybody has any questions?

Questions for let me know. Sean. Yeah. So, do we know approximately the distance change from on this that's on the screen here from the property 136 there that lot uh from the corner of that property to where it was uh heavy industrial to where it is going to be proposed? I wouldn't have the distance. I don't know if their engineers do. I was just curious how much closer like linear feet we are we are moving the zone heavy industrial from where it was to the 136 lot right there. Hi 136 like what the distance is but I don't know if the engine 60t

the expert says about 60 ft okay and then we are moving it you know the corner of spring hollow and mccleeroy was heavy industrial that is now being pushed further away from spring hollow right okay thank you y other question for Susie we are in a public hearing so anyone can approach the microphone at this time speak upon 4 C. Seeing none at 911, I take us out of a public hearing and entertain a motion. Mayor, I make motion we approve item 4 C. So,

Nick second. Motion passes. Good luck, folks. Y'all made a lot of progress. All right. So at 911 we are in a public hearing consideration action regarding a request to amend a change in district providing development standards and a development plan for track 4 located northeast corner of East Bay Basel and Milstone Road. Susie once again

Mr. Mayor for this item we're going to shift to the left and up south. Um this is on Bailey Basel Road where the new belt mill development is. This is one of the last components to the belt mill plan development. The comments at Beltman desires to amend the development plan and so staff reviewed the submitt and requested that they reinteerate a walkable design with multiple buildings versus a strip center design. As submitted, the new layout does not meet the original intent for the area and thus is not incompatible. We included the original development plan in your memo and on the bottom of it, it compares it to what's currently proposed. I will say since these were issued, we have had a change after the PNZ meeting. At the PNZ meeting, commission members did request that we have some sort of activated amenity space closer to the pond as well as a designated patio for a restaurant. And so the developer does have an updated PowerPoint with that. And so he'll be able to show you a little bit better of how that's going to look. Um, but just as a city standpoint, I do want to let y'all know that there have been multiple plans for this parcel that look very different from what is proposed. And so staff just does not believe that the current proposal meets the intent of what was proposed to city council at the origin of this development. And one of the last major parcels to be developed within Sagnol is this parcel. We have a few others, but this is one of the major

ones from a master plan [clears throat] development. So, do we do just want to let y'all know that that is vital land. Um, but we do have the engineer for the project and so if y'all don't have any questions, like to open it for him so that he could show youall the new proposal. Anything for Susie? No, let's let's move on to the engineer, please.

Good evening, Mayor, Council, Klay Christie with Claymore Engineering, 3231 Bedford Avenue. Um, appreciate your time uh staying with us late this evening. Um, we do appreciate it. We are proposing up here at the Commons of Belt Mill is what our development is called. Um, and as Susie, we've worked with staff. staff's been great to work with trying to work through this and we'll kind of go through a little bit of what it is and the origin and as Susie said there's been multiple things that have tried to come and present here and unfortunately it it didn't work and the reason why it didn't work is some of the layouts and some of the the proximity of everything that was there and what was kind of originally drawn up in this PD um just functionally from the way that it was laid out is not function. This goes back to uh Mr. Makins who's been involved in that. We're representing Huntington Development the night that has been working with Jim and has been brought on to try to fix and try to see what they can do to try to work along this and and develop this property. This property is unique in the fact that it does have a really nice pond amenity to it that we are trying to accommodate and um SPNZ mentioned kind of activate along that ways. We have right directly across the street from us, we have Trinity Industries, which is Railard. And then on the western side, um, looking out the front of the buildings, we have the elevated Bailey Boswell um, crossing right there, which it it kind of has some pulls and tugs in different directions on what you're able to do. And so the previous, you know, proposals that had been presented to you guys was kind of a a clustered building set. And the challenge that they've had on being able to realize this and make this come to fruition is through those multiple iterations whenever they are finding tenants and whenever they have things particularly what you know has been desired whether it be restaurants and everything else is

that those layouts people have to work walk 56 hundred feet to just [snorts] to get into the center and just to get into that. And with those proximities and the way that that development lays out, the tenants of coming in there just have not been able to support that. And so that really kind of leaves the development of way they laid it out for the walkable community more of the office type layout and everything else. And so, um, digging into it a little bit, I mean, I think we're familiar or we're familiar. We've been doing a lot of talking, but, um, we're here at Belt Mill right off Bailey Boswell. You have Main Street just to the west of us. Uh Walmart's on the other side. We have some multif family apartments to the back and then we do have some obviously some single family as you move back to the northeast. And as I mentioned, we have Trinity Industries across the street from us. And so um kind of was jumping the gun a little bit. And so we went into our market analysis to try to pursue things that we had with with that layout and what it was. And the market that came back to us that says this is a nice development, but what this is really meant it for what we could develop this as is more of like an office flex office type type facility because you're walking to and from your work then you maybe could get a couple places. And so they analyze that part of the market say hey why not why flex office it's here let's rock and roll let's go and the response back that we got of why not flex office and really it's a market thing and whenever this PD was originally done market was completely different than what we are in in today into now and office space just regionally DFW area is is lagging um we see it all over lots of empty spaces lots of office spaces we actually recently just moved because we were in a big office building and uh we were having to pay a huge part of electricity and everything else because there was three tenants in a four-story office building. So, and it's all open for lease. And so, with the existing leasing

that is there, just high vacancy and DFW, people still working on hybrid remote work forces that really just kind of killed a what of that flex is. And from the real estate market right now, office space is considered one of the most ris more risky type things and that we have there. And so, what we did there is like, okay, well, if we can't do the office space, how can we do this? And what we were getting back on this parcel um from market demand was the mixeduse that we've talked about and what we're presenting here today and how does that mixuse work? Is there support for it? Is it there? And so we started going through the analytics and the numbers not only regionally and DFW which are there in front of you guys which you know we're all aware of. DFW is a hot bed. There's a lot of people moving here. There's lots of growth. Sagenov's seen that growth uh specifically to where they're at and what they're doing. Um they were analyzing the average household income of Sageno and that's been increasing in certain areas which has been good. Um household income from our re most recent study say about $98,000. Um the age prime age of marketing for retail mixed use is about 36.8 eight. And the reason why that is is because usually at about 36 years old, you have kids. So, you're you're going you're having to shop. You're hopefully taking your kids maybe not every day, but you're going out on the weekends going to eat dinner. And whenever you do go eat, you have, you know, maybe four people going out to eat versus just two. And so, from a market and a retail and a restaurant type standpoint there, that that falls right into that prime demographic of what we're looking for. Um, and then just kind of going in there, it it's a small point, but being able to support retail, restaurant, different things of that nature that do have a tax revenue associated with it. Um, that Miss Copeland mentioned a little bit earlier. Um, there is

something to that versus compared to an office space type deal that that doesn't generate as much. And so, um, we move forward with our detailed site plan. We do understand that this is a departure from what the original PD was. Um, but we hope that you just kind of listen and and hear us out on what it is. And so with a larger kind of component such as this, um, we needed to kind of find our anchor and find who can hold us and what can do there and create a buffer that you don't have with restaurants, restaurants and different things are associated with smells in the back of house, grease traps, different things like that. And on the northern side, closest to our multif family and our single family residential, we found that anchor in a fitness group. Um, we have been told we can, um, release the name of the fitness anchor that is proposed to be EOS Fitness. So, um, and I think at PNZ, one of the first things they asked us, are they going to paint the building purple? Um, no, the answer to that. So, we have a very nice building, um, that we have on on that there. And then we get into our transition zone of that which is where we have our restaurants, retails and different things like that which was kind of the the big topic with planning and zoning was to establish how does that building how does that interact with the with the pond and the connectivity to that. Um there's two different things is one from the western side particularly where the multif family is we are going to be promoting a a walkable trail that will be able to take the residents of the multif family and being able to make that connection into the proposed pond area as well as we are also going to be be connecting into that and then um as Susie had mentioned we're taking as they they called it an activated activity space that we were trying to work on Um, kind of what was discussed was having the imagine of while somebody's waiting for their table at a restaurant or while they're having some amenity there,

there's a place where parents can go and have their kids go oh um their kids can go and, you know, be on like a little small turf field. They can go run around. They can play a little bit. Try to have a little bit more dedicated patio space that was on the PD for that to get established. And I'll zoom into that area in just a little bit. Um so that we can kind of see those areas a little bit better. I know it's hard on these smaller screens. Um and then just working with us on along Bailey Boswell across from Trinity and across from um the Trinity there or Trinity Industries. Um we do have some pad lots that we are proposing along the lines here. And so to zoom in a little bit just to kind of give you guys a little better view. Um these were the changes that we made. Um, and I will take my microphone over here just so that I can kind of point out a little bit and stay on the record. So, oh, the TV's not on today.

That was not on. Sorry.

Oh, it was on a P&Z. I apologize. Um, okay. Well, then we'll we'll go over here. But, um, in the northern part of the site plan right there, we have an enlarged patio um that we've had that we'll try to work. Still trying to keep a a little probably green strip around there just to help break that up and give a little bit of separation on the patio from vehicular traffic. So it's not just you're not sitting in a chair and you're right next to the curb that's right there. And then kind of the focal point and the activated is going to be what we're going to call the bend um in our in our retail space right there that we're going to have for the larger um the the larger play area that we will probably have. you know, we'll have a turf type area there, probably a low seating bench so the parents can sit while their kids are outside playing around there. And then from that play area, there's a direct path south that comes in and then goes over to the east um over to the the pond area to tie into the existing sidewalk and the benches and the trail there. Um, I know we talked about some in P&Z. You're like, Clay, well, you guys are doing that. Why is there not just a direct connection from your facility straight to the pond? Why do we kind of have to go down in an L-shape? Um, reason B to that is going to be with the grades. So, we've got about 3 ft of fall right there, just from where kind of the existing sidewalk is to kind of where the parking stalls are right there. and just for ADA purposes, sidewalk connections and things of that nature whenever we're coming in and making that, we kind of have to get a little bit more length so that we can get those grades back down and get that tied in to where the pond is today. And so that's the reason being for that kind of you got you got to do a little jog, but it's not trying to make it go out of the way. It's trying to make it feasible from an ADA standpoint. If we went direct straight connection, we were going to be looking at putting in ramps and retaining walls and and everything kind of switch backs to be able to get down. And we just felt like

it was you didn't want to look from the pond and have walls and and things of that nature. Um it's just it's just a strip mall, right? It's going to have blue places. Pardon? Pardon? It's L that we're looking at here. That's a strip mall, right? Basic.

It it is a mixeduse. Yes. Retail. uh retail, restaurants. Yes, sir. Um and so we did that. um what we try to do. So, we've looked at this site probably 30 different ways and we we talked about it, went through the different options with PNZ and everything else on that with them cuz the first question was like, "Well, Clay, why don't you guys put the building up against um up against the sidewalk there or why don't you have it a little bit more like what they had where there's the park and you have the facing?" And the challenge that you have particularly whenever you have something like this with your restaurants is your front of house and your back of house and trying to keep those separated. So whenever you have a restaurant, you want your tenants or your employee your employees and your deliveries and everything like that. I mean you're going to have food trucks, box trucks coming in and out. You have grease traps that have smells. So, if we were to put that all towards the pond and we were working on that on the pond where you could go and have that directly on that side, then that means that your customers are essentially walking in kind of in the back area where you have dumpsters, trash, your employees when they're hauling the trash out, they're walking out the same door that your employee, your um patrons are coming into, and you're going to have the dumpsters in there. And so the creation of the L tried to really separate that to where in that back corner, that's where we can have our employees, that's where we can have our grease traps, that's where we can have our dumpster enclosures to try to keep that um isolated in that little corner of the area. Um and that kind of striped areas designated if they have larger vehicles for deliveries and different things of that nature um that we have come through the site. But we still wanted to be as close as we could to to the pond and thus being the one travel lane. Let the customers, let the patrons be able to park, be next to the pond, they can walk in the entrance, they can sit on the patio, they can be in the turf area, um so on and so forth on that versus, you know, we didn't double stack

and have multiple rows of retail parking that we have on that side. We tried to tuck some of it up on the um northeastern side right there and then we also put it along the southern side of what we had. Um and so that's that's a little bit of the reasoning kind of what it was. Um we're happy to have other questions or or things. I kind of talked a little bit more about some of the things that were heavily talked about at P&Z, but obviously if there's other concerns or questions or things that we need to go back to on the overall, I'm happy to discuss any questions you may have. Council questions. Bra, you want to go first?

Yeah. Um, so on the fitness center, is the it looks kind of like the entrance is uh kind of facing the back of the L essentially or or is it orientated differently? So, the front the front side is going to what I'm going to call plan southeast. So that long side that you see that points down at an angle towards the pond, that will be the front of the EOS facility. Yes, sir. Okay. U is there I I guess it the employee parking would be in the back of that. Um, it

it kind of seems like there's a whole lot of employee type parking and not as much patron parking. So, in this plan, are you talking about you're talking about specifically for the EOS? Yeah. uh just because you've got a full lane going all the way around the building. Um with parking, but um most of your u patrons are going to be trying to park as close to the entrance as they can. And so my my fear is is that they're going to start encroaching into the back of the L uh

parking areas there. So, we have on the sides of the parkingu of each side of the US that we have the two drive lanes. Um, that would not be the employee parking. The employee parking for the fitness center would be designated at the back of that. And we do need um we've got to have that drive lane that goes around the back of that because we need fire coverage. And so, we we have that drive lane going around there to be efficient on what we have uh for that. And then we actually exceed the city's parking requirements for the fitness facility. Okay.

By so the drive, I know it's not shown on here, but the intent is to that we would plat these into individual lots whenever we move forward with that. Um that drive that's just on just north that runs east and west that is just north of the retail facility. That is where um the property line between the retail facility and the EOS gym would be. And from that north meets the EOS. So we've we've worked in they've signed an intent LOI lease and like I said we were able to release that at this point. So we have worked with them and through that designation from pointing and proximity for parking spaces and walking to their front door going through that with them that has suffice that suffices their needs of what they need for that. And so while there is a lot of parking really running on that east west, there's those two double rows, that's going to be your prime parking of what it is, there is parking on on the sides of the buildings that are there um that would be able to go in and walk. The good thing is is that people are always going to take the shortest route for parking space. I'm not saying that, but they are they are coming to work out. So if they have to come and walk this [laughter] around the side of the building, EOS was very comfortable with that. Um I know we're doing one of these in Berles right now um that is under construction with the EOS group as well and it is a very similar layout. That's kind of their prototype is to have um a couple rows of primary parking at the front and then they facilitate in the sides. Um, this one hasn't been as detailed along as that one is, but I do know that that little bump out on the back side of that. Um, there is some workout kind of crossfit type stuff that goes on in the back part of that gym. And if this, you know, if their footprint, you know, when they do their, you know, internal planning does the same. Um, but there is some access in and out on that that they

can do on the back sides if that becomes an issue. Um, but like I said, we've done a couple of that, you know, different layouts and and seen what they've done and so that fits their their prototypical program pretty well. My my concern is just that the basically the employee parking for the retail um if they're as successful a gym as they probably hope to be uh then I think employees are going to have an issue trying to get in to park for the retail. And worst case scenario with this being on the Huntington just coming off the top of my head and everything else, I'm I'm sure that we could work through with some kind of employee only parking signage or something in the back to designate that purely as saying, "Hey, if you come to work out, don't park here." Um, so on and so forth to be able to to do that. Um, and so if that we'd have to I'm not trying to go down a rabbit hole. We'd have to make sure we can get proper signage and following all the sign code stuff and everything else. But I I would think there would be a way that we could we could sign that to try to limit that cuz you I think that's a valid point. You could if they're successful and they do fill it up more than what they're expecting, then going south is where their parking would be available.

Can you walk through the lower portion of that because it's so small we can't see what exactly it is. Appears like it's restaurants with drive-throughs, but that's what it is. They changed it to drive-throughs. Yeah, that

so and full disclosure to council and everything else I will say full disclosure on this we are amending the PD and we are coming through here. So um with what we have which what we're going to call phase one of this development of everything that we have. So phase one is the EOS that is signed up ready to go and the retail that we have by the pond is fully ready to go. Um, we did lay out along there because we've got to do the whole entire thing and we do we did lay out some pad lots. These are generic padlocks. We do not have anybody tenant and tow. We do not have those, you know, there's not a hey, this is about to be, you know, McDonald's, Dairy Queen, such and such. We have that laid out trying to show what it would look like to give the full picture versus the other two are at this point in time ready for development. And so, um, that lower corner there is, and sorry I don't have a blow up on my PowerPoint presentation of that area and everything else. But, um, the thought is is is trying to get a little bit of buffer looking at you have Trinity and you have the crossing, the aerial crossing there. um whenever they went back to that that market analysis. We've kind of hit um in another deal is that you've kind of hit a sweet spot on your retail rest, you know, type type development portion of there. And so whenever they were talking to them, what else is there? What is the market for? That that was what kind of came back for us to try to lay out and what that is. So, while we do have those padlocks, at some point in time, whenever that does come back, I fully anticipate that that would come back to you guys at some point in time whenever there's a, you know, identified user.

That's what we're voting on now. Is that down there, too, right? Pardon me, sir. That's part of what we're voting on now. It It is. We have to do the whole PD. We can't go do that. We couldn't break it out and just do this portion of this and that portion of that. So, we had to lay that out because that original had different stuff and that was parking for where it was because So, where's the family dining? I mean, I see your four that's Yeah. chicken restaurants where you did drive down there. That used to That's new added. So, where's the family dining? Because that's not family dining. I mean,

yeah. So, I was going to ask you your market research. Is that was that based on a zip code or is that based on Sagenoth city limits? The reason why I asked is because we had a survey done for residents and the big thing was not as many drive-throughs and more family sit down restaurants. And so I want to make sure that that those two things are not conflicting because the surrounding area might want more drive-throughs, but Sagenol residents want sit down.

And Mr. Morrison, I would love to give you the detail on that specific. I that was not part of I'm the civil engineer, so I don't want to lie to you. I don't want to just say on what that is. So I don't know where that break was on what that is. I know that goes down to

um when the market analysis of the brokers and the real estate and the guys that are in in a part of that of what they have and who's coming to who's coming to try to identify these corners. Um I can tell you that we did have we had two different markets when we we've been working on this one for a while. Um trying to do that. We had two tenants that were coming pretty hard to kind of look at this and then um they they kind of put the brakes on and said, "Hey, until we know that it's entitled or anything like that, we can't move forward with what we're looking at." Um so that is where those are um from that. So, Miss Morrison, I'm sorry, I don't know the exact if it was zip code specific or if it was sagen specific. I I don't know that answer. Um going back to Mr. Lawson. So, right now, the the middle building, that's 29,000 square ft right there. Um, that is the way that we are um we've laid this out for parking and accommodations there that we have. We're looking at about 30% of that to be restaurants within within that facility.

So, here here's where I was explaining when this originally the the the original plan. And I went back and looked at it. Spent a lot of time. The anchor was going to be the the the the tank there. And there was going to be a little park in the front and the uh thing around it and and you're going to have these restaurants sit down restaurants and people would come there and their kids could run around park and then you could walk around. They had the little the little readouts of things about SAG and all. That's all gone now. I mean, I guess the readouts are still there because you all already put them in, but it's now there's no green space there. I mean, it from what I can see, it's just a big concrete around it and there's so nobody's going to come there and walk around. There's not I don't see any sit down restaurants. I see four drive-through restaurants. So, to me, it's like we put this big and got no problem with the big uh workout center here and it's pushed everything down. So I I just

I understand and and so there's no park there now. So I don't see Here's my thing. Before when I had to park there, I could see me bringing my grandkids there if you had a nice little restaurant or something eating and then let my kids walk around this. Now it's like, man, it's just a big concrete sidewalk around it. There's no green space.

So there's still fairly I mean just kind of talking through some of that stuff and everything else. Um the total amount of green space that is on this development that we have here is dispersed differently than what the original PD and it is not as concentrated in one area. Um the total amount of square footage is similar in nature um from the total green that we have there versus that. I do realize kind of what you're what you're talking about because it's not centralized as kind of a park. the the challenge we had there was how do you how do you get there? How do you do that and still be able to function as as a restaurant, as a development? How do you have your people be able to come there? Um, and I don't think the original the PD overlay that that we have there. Actually, I I saw when we were at PNC, we saw the some renderings that were presented to us that we hadn't seen before um from one of the other ones that that talk about kind of little circular thing on there. I think that's even a little different than what was the filed PD that we had to kind of look at. So, I know y'all seen a couple versions of that. So, um, but the the PD one had, I think, six or seven retail restaurant buildings and there was about 45 parking spaces in direct proximity to those. And so, how do you operate that much square footage without having some sort of close proximity of parking for those to be able to function? And that crook where they were putting the park is kind of the narrowest part of the site. So, it does get kind of restrictive on how you're going to be able to get if you're trying to draw everybody into that area. That is the smallest portion of the site which will have the least amount of parking. And so, I don't I don't know if I gave you the answer that you're wanting, but I'm trying to tell you how we got to that solution for the

property. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure if you take all these little green spaces you got in here and you add them all up, it probably was the same what it would. And I wish you'd do that. take all them little green these little spaces out here in the middle of the thing. It the grass's going to die anyways in Texas. I'd rather be put back around the tank. So, what in the the lower left there's a box with the dotted lines. What exactly is that? So, that was a service station that was laid out just to see what it is for gas to get on the other side of Main Street there. Yeah. Oh, Mary, go ahead. I don't want to leave you. Go ahead, Mary. Okay. You're not going to like this. It's okay, Miss Copelan. We're here to discuss

this reconfiguration does not come close to meeting the vision and the character that was presented to us the city council that existed at that time which was probably 2018 or 2019. And I will just specify the the elements that I am opposed to.

Okay. Personally, uh, for one thing, the fitness facility, we were not looking for large buildings and, you know, this facility really takes up more room than what was originally supposed to the space that was supposed to be there. The L-shaped uh uh uh retail is like the oldfashioned strip centers that most new developments are trying to get away from that look. That's very dated. That's not the individual little retail shops that we envisioned and it does not uh add to the ability to have [clears throat] walkability. the uh pad sites down here along Bailey Boswell. Of course, I know nothing's been least. You know, you haven't talked to any particular businesses, but it does lend itself to fast food, which our residents are completely opposed to having any more fast food in this city, as am I. I would not object to maybe one of them being a uh one of those uh fast casual which might have a drive-thru but maybe on one end and then you would have some small shops that would lend to the walkability that was originally proposed. And so this is becoming this could have been or should be and hopefully will be a jewel of a development for Sagena that you know meets the vision that was

originally proposed. And I understand when we have these large pieces of land, they cannot be developed very quickly. We have to wait sometimes. And I think it's worth waiting for the right the right way to develop this rather than having a need to just hurry up and put something there just to take up the space which is not really what we're looking for. And I do believe that this configuration came about to allow this fitness facility to work there to be able to be built and so everything is dependent upon that facility being there it seems like to me. So I am opposed to this completely 100%. The fitness facility is is with you have in modern-day retail development whether you have your whenever you have your retails is that you need an anchor of some sort to continually pull your traffic whenever you have particularly retail that is off the road to be able to have there. So the EOS fitness does promote that traffic. It does bring people in and it does bring traffic for other tenants to want to be there because they know that they're going to have lots of people coming to the facility um on a routine type basis that they're going in that then can share with the other items and the other things that they have. And so from that standpoint, yes, EOS is the anchor. Um but as we mentioned that the EOS and the retail are they're proposed hand in hand. That's what we're ready to move forward with right at at the moment and we have ready to build and and to try to

move forward with if we're able to do that. Um the challenge that you say about with waiting and the challenge that you say of going through is that we do have this we have this really really nice facility that is the pond that's right there. And unfortunately, whenever you're sitting on our side of the the pond and we're looking on our side where our retail and everything is proposed, we look across the pond directly to Trinity, directly to a railard, directly to some of those items there. That makes it very hard whenever you want to have a fast casual or a national type restaurant or something of that that tries to come in and they've gone and they look that site and they go say, "We're going to put our building here." And then they look across Bailey Boswell and they see Trinity or they go to the hard corner where I and I saw your I saw your face if you asked what that was. I saw that. But if you go stand there and you say, "I want to go put I think they had retail buildings that's right there that requires some visibility to be able to do that." And you go stand on that lot where you're next to a little substation type thing. That's everything there. And you look at it, your visibility is looking at a 35 foot tall bridge that's that's going up and over the building there. Um, so to have something be able to come in there, we we're about trying to promote as much of the walkability and the enhancement and everything we can, but there are some constraints of how that's going to develop, how that's going to be able to be obtained. And like we said, from that standpoint, we've really tried to do what we can with what can be there. And I know you talked about how this part of the retail and and the strip center that we were talking about how that's that's an out kind of more outdated model. Um I I can speak a little bit on that and the

layout of that and the fact that so the Huntington group that has been brought in here, we have about throughout the metroplex area, we've got about 12 different facilities that we have been working on over the past six years with them on that. And that's all the way from we're out west southwest Fort Worth up into McKenna Prosper um that type area as well. And the trying to create something that looks like this and what this has has been a successful project for them of being able to come in, bring in their tenants and be able to lease that up. So, um I do understand what you're saying about that and everything else, but kind of creating that pocket where you can have your service in one area and have your customers on another has been um something that's been still successful um from a development standpoint and and everything that we have there. So, just to kind of talk about the market, it's not we're not trying to just fit a round peg in a square hole here. Um and and it's not these guys first time. We're we're just trying to see if what we can envision for that being if that can match up with what you guys could support.

So Gabe, the lower left across from the drawing of the gas station, isn't that the city parkland that we have? Yeah. So the parcel I think the lower left would be west that' be city-owned land. Um is that correct? Yeah. Uh there's another property in the middle and then it's property. That would be the grant next door. The grant. Oh.

Yeah. And uh certainly Mr. Christie representing his client, you have to take some reasonleness with what the market would bear, but uh Susie explained is kind of a departure of what was initially thought of. And what we have, albeit very nice, is pretty traditional strip center and pad sites. Well, here's the thing. The guy that came before you was a good salesman and he sold us on a plane and we damn well like that plan.

I I understand and I'm sure when they were looking at this as a larger plan, I've been in those shoes and there's multif family which had to get sold and there's the senior rentable houses that had to be sold and there had to be a there had to be a a prize there at the end of it all and and I understand what was what was shown there. Yeah, I know you got the big box there. They came in and they're willing to lock it down, but that that's coming now. Lower the lower part is what our residents have told us they do not want. They don't want another gas station. They don't want another fast food restaurant. [snorts]

And there there's nothing in this thing that excites me very much. I have no problem with the fitness center. I understand you need an anchor. That's fine. But the rest of it is a huge departure. I don't think it's the best use of of this land. Uh and as we talked with Mr. making many years ago. I was in those meetings and this is not what we were sold and this is not what our residents are expecting. I cannot support the plan as as directed because it gives us nothing. It it's a generic any any suburb anywhere sort of a generic and the fast food is even less as Paul mentioned. So there's nothing in here that really excites me at all.

The one big thing like I said is the tank around there is supposed to have good little thing people want to come to it. I I can get over like say I could get over the drive-through restaurants if you had to park there and and something nice people could come. And Valerie, anything from you? Everything. Valerie, anything from you? No, I like the original plan. Okay, mayor, you got something about and [snorts] I, you know, I don't want you to misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I don't want you to think this,

but I really know that developers and architects and all of the people in this line of business are very smart, very inventive, very, you know, able to come up with wonderful solutions. And I do have faith that you all could come up with something that meets the original plan much more closely than this does.

And I was going to push back on you just a little bit about, you know, looking out and seeing the the Trinity complex. I mean, there's houses all along Bailey Boswell that have nothing in front of them that have balconies that face out that way. Um, the people that that move into these areas, they know the trains are here. They know it's part of the community. And you know, I wouldn't just say just because it looks out there there that the people aren't going to shop there or or eat there. I think they will. I think it's just it. Yeah.

But it's and I I don't disagree with you there. So my grandmother lives on Thompson Drive over here and every time we'd come say with her, it was listening to the trains all the time and it was like felt like home with our family stuff. So, I don't mean that as any disrespectful way cuz I've I've like I said, we'll be there next weekend for Christmas with my with my dad when everybody comes into town. So, I don't mean that in a disrespectful way at I don't see it that way. And I didn't take your comments, Miss Copeland, as being disrespectful either. Um, the challenge isn't necessarily selling the the people that will go shop there. It's selling your tenants on it because whenever they have, you know, an, you know, you have a national chain sitdown restaurant and they have to go, they've got to see that vision and that's the hardest thing to try to get on that. And so I I do totally understand on on what that is and and everything else. And so, um, but I mean, we're we're sitting here talking and and visiting with everybody, um, this evening. I mean, I I don't I don't I I clearly hear the conversation and and everything that is going on there. Um and like you said, I I think there um as Mr. Lawson said and and the mayor as well with the original meetings with Mr. Makins and everybody else on on what was being sold there. Like I I understand what that expectation was. We were just trying to um we were trying to present something that that could maybe, you know, maybe try to move forward, present the the fitness center and and everything else that we have there. Um

well, if you could um just put on your saleserson hat and tell these potential uh companies that's above Miss Copela that's above my pay grade. [laughter] So, but I I try Sageno residents are are desperate for this kind of facility that was originally presented to us. And I don't know how you convince these retail establishments that yes, you would be successful because that's what our residents are dying to have. how you convince them of that that

and we're not the we're not the first ones that have tried. So just just being honest I mean there's been multiple people that have have tried to to make that happen and just to date it hasn't hasn't been successful yet. Okay. And like I said before, we know that we may have to wait a little longer to get the right the right uh retail, the right sitdown restaurants in there. And we're patient, right, Mary? Yes. We we can afford to be patient on this plan to make,

you know, it's been uh what uh almost nine or 10 years since this was first presented. So, we're patient and it is being developed in a very nice way and I want that to be continued and and I'm willing to wait. I think most people are any more questions for Mr. Christie. It's getting late. We've discussed this quite a bit. Any other burning questions, folks? Are we are Oh, you have something?

I just wanted to say Mr. Lawson had a question earlier about us voting on the entirety. Yes, we would be voting on the entire development plan as presented. So, if y'all were to vote on this, the action it would, if y'all were to approve it, it would have that gas station and those fast food restaurants with the drive-throughs as presented. Understand? All right. So, we are in a public hearing. So, it is available for anyone to speak at this time to approach the microphone. Seeing none, at 9:56, I take us out of a public hearing and I entertain a motion. Mayor, I make a motion we deny item 4D. Second. Nick second.

That is correct. [laughter] All right. Motion motion passes. This uh change is denied. All right, we are on to five uh new business consideration acts regarding appointments of our board. We have council member St. Clair Morrison and mayor proim. Who is going to be the spokes model for this august group? Mr. Sinclair corre I think I was uh twothirds majority voted to do this. So [laughter] you missed the meeting. All right, go for go for it. All right, so we have several changes. Um, I'm going to go in order. Uh, do I have to split them all up by board?

Ask him. You do not. You can take one omnibus vote. Unless the only reason why you'd want to separate them out is if you think different results would ensue from different.

Yeah. Okay. All right. So, um, place six on animal shelter, uh, was vacated. And so, we're moving alternate one. We're proposing to move alternate one, which was Rick Russell, to that position. moving alternate two, which was uh McCall Hoodie, uh to alternate one and then placing Debbie Norris as alternate two on PNZ. Uh alternate two was vacated and so we're proposing to move Rebecca Arrington into that position. Uh keep Sagenol Beautiful. Uh, place four was vacated. Uh, moving alternate one, uh, Brian Thompson to place four. Uh, moving George Wear to alternate one. And then appointing Miranda Bear uh, to alternate two for parks. Uh, place five was vacated. Moving alternate one, Timothy Hamilton to place five. Uh moving Scott Gillette to alternate one and moving and appointing Emily Bell as alternate two uh for the community garden. This is a new board. So, all the places will be newly appointed. Uh, places one, the odd places are for a one-year term. Is that correct?

The first one. The first. Yeah. The the first term is a one year. Um, why is that? Because they have we needed to do an alternating alternating years. So, um, so the odd places are a one-year term the first time and then the even places are a two-year term and then the reappoint is for two years. Okay.

So, for place one, we have mean place. Um, place two, Dr. Anetta Jackson. Place three, Michaela Miller. Place four, Alexandra Bradock. Place five, Francis Ruiz. Alternate one, Kendall Rogers. Alternate two, Megan Hatley Freeman. And the council liaison as Shawn Morrison. Any questions, comments on these appointments? There were no vacancies there, no change to traffic or library.

Right. But the ones that you did not cover were not changed. So, correct. And uh we actually had one more application than we had spots. So, there was one person that did not get appointed and we had one applicant that actually when we vetted it out, they weren't a resident of the city. They're across Blue Mountain Road. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Any other questions for the for the group? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mayor, I make a motion we approve as presented. Thank you, Valer. Have a second. Next second.

Please cast your votes. Motion passes. All right. So, uh, at 10:01, pursuant to Texas government code 551.0. Oh,

a motion to adjurnn. Mayor, make a motion. We adjourn. Second. Valerie made the motion. Brack seconds it [laughter] make the motion. Valerie second. That's fine. Please cast your votes. [laughter] Yes. I'm out. All right. Motion passes. At 1011, we're Thank y'all. Best smoke you did all