Youth Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the Wednesday, June 10th meeting of the Animal Wellbeing Commission. This meeting is now called to order. Will the clerk please call roll to establish a quorum?

Yes. If you would unmute your microphones, please, commissioners. Commissioner Treat is absent. Commissioner Wells is absent. Commissioner Verga is absent. Commissioner Contreras? Here. Commissioner Hayes is absent. Commissioner Bodegon?

Here.

Commissioner Bell is absent. Commissioner Benedict? Here. Vice Chair Bagley? Here. Commissioner Christie? Here. Commissioner Asquith?

Here.

Commissioner Few is absent. Commissioner Morris? Here. Commissioner Garcia? Here. And Chair McDowell? Here. Thank you. We have a quorum.

Thank you. I'd like to remind members of the public and chambers that if you'd like to speak on an agenda item, please turn in a speaker slip before the item begins. After the item is called, we no longer accept speaker slips. You will have two minutes to speak once you are called on. And we'll now proceed with today's agenda. First, so please rise if you're able for the opening acknowledgements in honor of Sacramento's indigenous people and tribal lands. I've asked Commissioner Baragon to read.

Please rise for the opening acknowledgement in honor of Sacramento's indigenous people and tribal lands. To the original people of this land, the Nisenin people, the Southern Maynou, Valley and Plains, Miwok, Patwin, Wintun peoples, and the people of Wilton, Rancheria, Sacramento's only federally recognized tribe, may we acknowledge and honor the native people who came before us and still walk beside us today on these ancestral lands by choosing to gather today together today in the active practice of acknowledgement and appreciation for sacramento's indigenous people's history contributions and lives thank you please remain standing for the pledge of allegiance

Thank you. Next is approval of the consent calendar. Clerk, do we have any members of the public who wish to speak on the consent calendar?

I don't have any speaker slips for this item.

Okay. Thank you. Are there any commissioners that wish to speak on this item? I will acknowledge myself. There are a couple of things in our follow-up log that have been resolved that I would just like to make a point so that we can remove them from the log. Namely, number one, increasing the number of dogs a resident can own. And number six, the redemption policy, as we spoke about that last month. Oh, and the other point I wanted to make was number four, the audit updates. I believe it's been over a quarter since we've received an update. Thank you. Commissioner Asquith.

That was me. I'm actually at Commissioner Asquith and Pugh's seat, I think. Anyway, I was just kind of wondering how we might update this log, so thank you for catching those items that I think are reasonable to take off. I think there's a couple of items, like, for example, item 11, the community survey that Commissioner Berrigan put on, and then you passed out something a couple of meetings ago, and so I just hope that at some point we can catch up on some of those things as loose threads, like what Commissioner Berrigan was working on.

That was in the poll, and it's number eight in the poll.

Thank you.

That would be the newest column over to the right, right after the description.

Ah, thank you for explaining that. Some of these things get by in my brain. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Any further discussion? All right, is there a motion to approve the consent calendar? There's, are you good? All right.

Just quickly, I had a motion by Bartagon and a second by Berger, is that correct?

Correct.

Okay, thank you.

If you all could unmute your mics and we can do a verbal vote. All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Any abstentions? All right, the motion carries, thank you. I did want to, I've reordered our discussion calendar for today. So number three, or the first item that we'll be discussing, which is actually listed as number five, is the Animal Care Service Manager Report. So we'll be going backwards. So five is now the first thing. Four, the interim shelter will be the next thing. And then the last discussion item will be the steps to a new shelter. All right. Okay. Now hopefully we got the manager report queued up because we... Excellent. So Ryan, I will let you take it away. Oh. Never mind. Sorry. Go ahead. Sorry.

computer has conveniently decided to freeze right at this moment. So let me get past the spinning circle of death here, and then I will get started.

Sorry, it's my fault, I know.

All right, lots of updates for everybody, so I wanted to have all those notes. All right, well, I'll start with our statistics here. All right, so month of May, it took in a total of 1,113 animals, pretty evenly split between cats and dogs. Kitten intake certainly has increased substantially. 139 cat adoptions, 271 dog adoptions. Looks like we had 10 cats sent to rescue, 14 dogs sent to rescue. We had 116 cat euthanasia. That's going to be mostly bottle babies, neonatal kittens, and they're dying in care or not... not thriving, and then 45 euthanasias for dogs. So that puts our overall live release rate at 80% with 71% for cats and 89% for dogs. Cute story of the month. One of the things I always tell staff sort of as a motivational point is that It's not just getting the animal out of the shelter in that moment. It's that we're getting them an entire life to enjoy and to also bring joy into someone else's life. And so this is Skittles. So Skittles came into our shelter at about two years old. And that was based on, we age based on teeth. So it's our best guess, but usually pretty accurate. It's about two years old. And that was in 2006. So Skittles just turned 22 years old. And I believe it. But yeah, so she's doing quite well and thriving in her golden years there. Touching on a few... A few follow-up points. So myself and our public information coordinator met again this Monday with the final plea working group to further develop and discuss, talk through the procedure, the selection of animals some other some other finer points and so far we've had nine animals posted to final plea we have had so we had red who was adopted because of the post but then returned but fortunately we also had arranged had also gotten rescue interest and Commissioner Morris actually drove the dog five hours uh-huh well done thanks for doing that um that's not the most exciting drive either from what i've remembered and that was a rescue shelter in nevada douglas county and then um debo was adopted to the program but was returned uh had some uh pretty major behavior concerns come out in the home. We had Rupert the cat, who we have a rescue expressing interest, so TBD on that one. And then King Cutie was posted last week's post and was adopted yesterday. And they did say it was because they saw the post. So out of nine dogs, we've had two permanent outcomes and then a couple others that have gotten interest as a result. So I think that's pretty good so far. All right. On the kennel mock-up, we'll be getting into this, but just a brief kind of overview. So we had the initial prototype put in place. Staff got to test it out. I'm not sure if any of you were able to come by and take a look at it. But there were some modifications that we wanted to make. So we're currently working on sort of a second draft of that kennel and really trying to get it right the first time. So one is a slightly wider grate that would allow kibble to go through. another is a latch that would allow the door to open inwards and outwards and yet also catch itself if the door let's say you're opening the door inward a dog were to jump up a big strong dog and and knock the gate back we've had instances of Our current doors open a bit until they hit the curb and we've had staff get hit with that door So a mechanism that would allow the door as it swings back in to catch itself But then still be able to be opened kind of allows the best of both worlds in terms of cleaning and safety and other considerations we realized that a partial curb removal and kind of just introduced new tripping hazards with the foot-long section that still remains. To save costs, they weren't going to take out the entire curb. They were going to leave the one-foot sections, but we kind of realized those kind of present instead of a tripping hazard coming in and out of the kennel, sort of a tripping hazard perhaps as you go turn from one kennel to the other or being kind of pulled down the hallway by a big dog. And then we also requested for SOME SECTIONS OF THE GREAT TO BE REMOVABLE SO WE CAN CLEAN OUT THE DRAINS IF THINGS DO GET STUCK DOWN THERE. THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THAT. SO A COUPLE OTHER MINOR THINGS AS WELL. THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THE KETTLE MOCKUP. ONCE WE DECIDE ON A FINAL VERSION, ESSENTIALLY THE CONTRACTOR WOULD NEED THREE WEEKS NOTICE BEFORE THEY COULD ACTUALLY GET STARTED ON THE PROJECT. For the policies and procedures, the contract has been moving along. We anticipate starting for the contract to be live and being able to start with the vendor on June 22nd. So it's less than two weeks from now if that all goes well. I have gotten clearance to announce the vendor. It is CityGate Associates. We worked with them back in 2019 for a fee study audit. And they have a pretty impressive team there. That's you know, they service they provide consulting to many different types of government agencies And they the folks they hire have extensive experience. So if you go on their website, you can read about the folks that they have You know working on on these projects a lot of a lot of shelter experience about it combined about 70 years of experience multiple experience in multiple director level positions and you know they've done this sort of work with many many shelters across the country and that's definitely something that I was hoping for is to be able to work with a vendor that can say hey have you ever thought about doing things this way or you know this this would be more efficient for you to do it that way or here's you know you know legal considerations or whatnot so I'm eager to get working with them And it is certainly needed. On the staffing end, lots going on. So our animal care team, our ACTs, are definitely short-staffed mixed with the fullness, the extreme fullness. They are definitely working very hard. And it shows in the last couple of months, despite how full we've been and taking in you know, in the heat of kitten season, you know, we've averaged 90% live release rate for dogs for those two months. So I think that's a testament to, you know, their work. And dog foster, we completed our first round of interviews. Our second round is anticipated in the next week or two. So very excited to get that very important position filled. The shelter operations manager posting is currently live. I just found out today we have received one application for a veterinarian. I haven't seen it yet. It hasn't been forwarded to the department, but obviously very eager to take a look at that, and we will keep our fingers crossed that we've got a good candidate there. We selected an animal care technician candidate, and we're reviewing applications to schedule additional interviews there. I just received the applications for a senior animal care technician position today. We currently have someone in an interim position with that role. That's a very important role. And then the animal services manager selection will be announced this month. And probably the best of all, we filled our final animal control officer vacancy. We had a candidate accept the position. Assuming that goes through and nothing changes, we would be fully staffed in field services for the first time in a very long time. Our chief also let me know that we hit a pretty big milestone, which was dipping under 300 active pending animal control calls, which it's been many years since we've been under that number. So considering we have quite a few new staff and we're going to be getting additional staff, and they're still in training. I think that's a really strong accomplishment from the field services section. Let's see. I kind of mentioned it briefly, but I don't think everyone was in the room. The $500,000 for the community spay and neuter clinics has been kept within the budget, so that is very exciting, and there's a lot of the next steps involved with that, but we'll be beginning discussions about what's next for the planning of over 2,000 community spay and neuter surgeries. So let's see. We have our, we are doing, actually I think it probably is posted now, but we're doing our big bottle baby class. I had mentioned difficulty with recruiting fosters, so we will have that class soon. this Saturday. So if you go to our social media, check it out, share it with your contacts. We're really trying to get as many people as we can into that class for those very vulnerable kittens. We're still in huge need of those types of volunteers. And then lastly, Saturday, as I think many of you know, is California Adopt-a-Pet Day. It was a very successful day. We were the regional leader from everything I've seen. We had 138 adoptions in a single day. That included dogs and cats, and that was at the shelter as well as at our Petco Adoption Center and at PetSmart. So I think that's a new record for us for California Adopt-a-Pet Day. Okay, council and committee dates for some of our items that have been forwarded. So the final plea pilot program is scheduled for June 23rd at the PNPE committee at 11 a.m. The ordinance amendment to own four dogs is scheduled for July 21st at 2 p.m. And the language changes for the mandatory spay-neutron pet redemption is scheduled for PNPE on August 25th at 11 a.m. From the last meeting, the language changes for when animals come to the shelter and they're getting redeemed, the mandatory changes for mandatory spay and neuter or payment of a fee. Yeah, that item will be on the August 25th PNPE calendar. That was the change, the four dog ordinance amendment. Yeah. And that date was July 21st. That was the 21st.

And do you have a time for June 23rd? 11.

11 a.m.

Thank you. Yep.

And then lastly, Commissioner Berger, I know you mentioned Gunther, maybe had a soft spot for him. He was just in the process of being adopted as I was leaving the office. So, yeah, hopefully that sticks. All right. That's all my updates.

All right. All right, are there any members of the public who wish to speak on this?

I don't have any speakers' lips for this item.

Right. And we do have some commissioners. Commissioner? Oh.

Is this one for the manager's report? Oh, I apologize. I thought it was moved to number five. No, that's fine. Susan Falcon, come ahead. No, no, you're fine. I, five, three... This is the right one.

Go ahead. Good evening, commissioners. In 2025, Front Street killed 1,823 animals. That is roughly five animals intentionally killed every single day. That is exactly why Final Plea matters. Final Plea was meant to be a simple life-saving notification tool. Not a controversial concept, not a radical policy, just a basic effort to give animals one last chance, yet there are serious concerns on how this rollout has begun. Former Director Philip Zimmerman had a public tirade on Front Street social media about the clearly aggressive nature of some final plea dogs. For once, I agree with him, but I also have to wonder whether that selection was intentional in order to undermine the program, especially since Zimmerman also said Front Street was forced to implement final plea. In my opinion, that's a problem. Front Street needs to be honest with the public about animals whose lives are at risk. What is unacceptable is that there are still no written procedures clearly stating how euthanasia decisions are made, how animals are deemed available for public adoption, how rescue only decisions are made, and how related life and death shelter policies are applied. A Front Street foster recently shared that a dog had been at the shelter, was deemed aggressive, was actually a sweetheart. That is exactly why proper procedures matter. Without clear standards, animals can be unfairly labeled and public can be put at risk. I know this because my dog is a rescued two and a half year old Akita. He is wonderful, but he is not a dog for just anyone. That does not make him bad. It means he needs the right adopter, someone who understands his breed, temperament, and needs. That is why responsible placement protocols are vital. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, commissioners. Commissioner Baragon.

Thank you. Thanks for the report, Mr. Hinderman. I appreciate it. I had a couple of questions about different topics, just to better understand. So the $500,000 that you said was kept in the budget, how does that compare to previous years? How much money is allocated for spay and neuter, typically?

So there hasn't been, to my recollection, there hasn't been... specifically city-funded spay-neuter budget. There's been funding, you know, half of all of our unaltered license fees will go to a program. We issue vouchers for spay-neuter. We've also obtained a number of different grants to provide spay-neuter. You know, right now we have a grant that's about $50,000 that we're working on spending specifically for the unhoused population, and we're pursuing another grant of a similar amount for this similar purpose. So But this is the first I've seen of this type of grant come down to us.

So it's pretty like an unprecedented amount of money.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, cool. That's exciting. The other question I had, or two other questions. So you were talking about the current improvements of removing the curb. So a couple of clarifying points. One, is that part of basically the already approved and interim shelter improvement plan that this commission set forth? Or is there still, because I know it's another item here, and so I'm just curious, is it a moot point at this point? So does that make sense?

Yeah, so... The interim improvements were approved by council in 2025 through a capital improvement project. And so those funds are allocated to go to kind of improvements. But again, we are still in this phase of feedback as far as what that looks like and how that can best serve animals and the staff.

So we're not set in stone in terms of how that money has to be spent so far? Or does it have to be consistent with the plan that was set forth?

My understanding is it has to be used for kennel improvements.

But there's still latitude to decide what that looks like?

Possibly, yeah.

And so the follow-up question to that is, since you said that there's this new tripping hazard now with that portion that's remaining, does that mean other items that were on that plan are going to have to be put away to exhaust additional funds? Does it mean more money? I'm just trying to understand, because when you balance the benefits versus, you know, I'm just struggling, like if it becomes a runaway train of $400,000 to fix a cement curb, kind of an issue.

Sure. Sorry, what was the question before?

I'm trying to understand, like, is your impression right now, because, you know, I know you've only done one kennel, right? So there's that, you weren't at I'm sure the contractor was not contemplating removing that additional portion. So are they now coming back to the shelter and saying, hey, we weren't anticipating this, we need additional money to do this right, so does that mean now we're gonna have to exhaust additional money beyond what was contemplated, or does that, something's gonna have to fall off the list, so I'm trying to understand who gets to make those decisions.

Yeah, so that will, removing that extra section of curb and putting grade there will increase the cost, but I was also, one of the things that we removed when we met with the contractor a couple months, about a month, month and a half ago, was that they had originally quoted self-closing hinges, which surprised me. Talked to the whole staff about it. No one saw any benefit to it. It was actually flagged as probably a safety concern to have a self-closing hinge. So that was removed, and they told me that that would save a lot of money. So I'm hoping, like they said, there's a really big portion of it. So I'm hoping it balances out. Otherwise, we would have to reconsider that. you know, the, the, the budget and, and what could be within it.

I appreciate the back and forth into clarifying. And then my last question was, I appreciate the update on the final plea. It sounds like, I know, I know that it's still going to go. What we voted on is still going to this other committee. Right. And so what you're doing is like a preemptive strike, which I appreciate. Um, it's good to see that it sounds like nine animals. Right. And so, have kind of been put up on the list. What are you guys doing in the interim while the committee decides what they wanna do and how they're gonna interpret the recommendation from this commission? How are you guys determining what animals are selected to be put on as a notice for a final plea? So.

Sure, and I can kind of respond to Ms. Falcone's question or comment there. So, generally speaking. There's there's going to be a couple different categories of animals and I agree with you euthanasia policy is absolutely essential. That's probably my highest priority of the many priority policies that we have. But generally, I would say there's a lot of nuance because every animal is an individual and there's just so many factors. But there's going to be a category of, let's focus on dogs, a category of dogs that are going to have safety concerns where we're not comfortable with any form of placement. So either, because eventually it is going to be an adoption, whether it's directly from us to an adopter, a member of the public, or to a rescue, and then to eventually a member of the public. And so, you know, if a dog has, you know, a bite, like an aggressive, you know, unprovoked bite, or If we're not able to vaccinate the dog, we can't even handle the dog because it's so aggressive, or the dog has really severe aggression towards other animals, where if that dog got, let's say you were walking your dog across the street, if this front street dog got loose and it saw you walking your dog, what are the chances that we think that dog is going to attack your dog and very likely result in a bite to you? So those are kind of a few of the examples of animals that we would not deem safe. So that's kind of one category. I've sort of, as I've been wrapping my head around how to craft this into a policy, I've sort of thought of these dogs as like, let's say, like red dogs, right? It's like, stop, let's be very careful with these dogs and not put them out. Now, beneath those dogs might be, let's say, yellow dogs. These are dogs similar to what you were describing for your dog that I think you had said, it's not a dog just for everyone, right? So there's probably a behavior issue that makes it very difficult for them to find a home and could potentially create a safety issue if it was in a home where that wasn't managed. But let's say a simple example would be food aggression or some other type of possessiveness. where, okay, it's not likely that if this dog got out into the broader community, it's not likely that a community member is going to stumble across this dog and reach for its food bowl that's out in the public somewhere. Another example might be a dog that doesn't get along well with other dogs. It could be not a good situation if it's placed in a home with another dog. But a dog where it's an only dog in the home, that could be successful. And it's the sort of dog where if it gets out, at least from what we've seen, it's not like It's not like a seek and destroy behavior. If it's introduced to another dog, maybe they don't get along very well. That makes it hard for it to get a home, but it's not necessarily If we ask ourselves, if this dog gets out, is it going to pose a substantial safety risk to a member of the public? So those dogs in that category, or in that category could also just be dogs that they're incredibly kennel stressed. It's inhumane to keep them in this environment. That could be another dog that could be considered. Now, so far, I've mentioned this to the working group, that it's a good problem that we've had that the only dogs that have needed to be considered for euthanasia are those, at least since we started this pilot, are dogs in those categories. So dogs that are simply having a hard time getting adopted or are older, like Gunther, or have some maybe behavioral needs, Maybe a bit of anxiety, but they're a perfectly good dog. Those dogs have not met the definition that was written by the working group, which was an animal at imminent risk of euthanasia. So these might be dogs that are having a hard time getting adopted. Maybe they're long-term dogs, but they are not at imminent risk of euthanasia. We're not planning to euthanize them. Now, if we got to the point where our capacity, we got so full that we, even after those first two categories of dogs, we had nowhere to turn but just the dogs that were really struggling and long-termers and didn't have a good outlook you know, might take a really long time to get adopted, that then would absolutely be the right time for those dogs to be on final play. So, long answer, but does that help?

No, no, I know that's helpful to understand that you guys are trying to iron out something now about how to determine what animals, and do you, would you say that all nine thus far have fallen into those first two categories of yellow and green?

They've all fallen under the yellow category. So we haven't needed to, you know, our capacity issues haven't caused us to need to take a green dog and say, hey, this dog has a week, right?

Yeah, because they get picked up right away.

Yeah, or we feel like they'll get picked up eventually, and as long as they don't have a safety concern or it's not inhumane keeping them in this super stressful environment that they have a lot of anxiety for, then we can continue to hold them as long as we have the ability to. So, yeah.

Thank you, appreciate it.

Commissioner Berger. Hi, thanks. So I've got a lot of questions and comments. I'm just gonna start with a couple so that everybody else has an opportunity and maybe I can chime back in later. So regarding final plea, since we've been in the working group As you know, we've had a lot of emails and a lot of conversations about the animals that were selected to launch final plea. And in our email conversations and in the document that basically I extracted from our email conversations to try to put together per chat GPT what we had discussed, I would definitely disagree that the dogs that were selected were yellow dogs or green dogs. And I think Shannon and Julia, who are not here, but Kelly and Hillary, we all were kind of like, whoa. And for that matter, as Susan pointed out, as Director Zimmerman even talked about how aggressive most of these dogs were in this list, which was just very concerning. At the end of the day, what final plea is about is notification of euthanasia. And so that an animal, whatever animal they are, unless they're a documented dangerous dog, which the city of Sacramento has a great ordinance that discusses that, documented dangerous dogs, potentially dangerous dogs, and it gives you all this criteria and ability to be able to document what the problems are with that dog so that you can take them out of the running for final plea, you can take them out of the running for rescue, you can take them out of the running for public adoption. But that's not what we saw happening here. which is what I wanted to discuss with you. So for instance, Joey, Deebo, two dogs, their descriptions of them was that they were lunging, snapping, escalating over arousal, mounting mouthiness, fearfulness, and recommendation for an adult-only pet-free home. And by the way, I believe that all these dogs were available for public adoption too, which Look, as much as we all love animals, we do not in any way here, as this commission voting for final plea, want to put any humans at risk. And so it's not just about saving a dog's life, it's about making sure that they're a safe dog to be out in the public and to be around people. And they're not going to be attacking your mom's dog and all of the above. So then I'm looking here at Debo's description. Kettle mane aggression, barrier fighting, escalating kennel arousal, growling, strong cat fixation. And this kind of goes on and on with all these dogs. And with Sage, for instance, one of the things that I pointed out is that Sage was, and these are all great dogs. I'm not trying to denigrate these dogs. I'm just trying to describe what. the descriptions were and what some of the concerns are with this rollout, because this is really important. You know, these dogs' lives matter, and anybody who's going to be taking them, their lives matter too, and their animals' lives matter. But Sage, one of the concerns with Sage is that the description for her on Final Plea, the description for her on her public, on the website, and the description for her on the rescue page were all different, extremely different. And they told three completely different stories And I'm not going to even get into Biggs Descriptions now, but I just want to point that out that that that is a concern and I know we went round and round and round but discussing this and one of the things you know that I'd really like to understand is how these dogs were selected for final plea and because as we all talked about, I think, especially if we're gonna be rolling it out, we wanted to be careful, because we wanted the program to be successful, right? But for instance, I'd like to ask you about Deebo. I know, quite frankly, I was shocked when Deebo was adopted, because looking at his kennel notes, they were serious, they were concerning. And I saw that he was adopted right away. I've also seen, per public records, he was returned the next day, and he was killed the next day. I should say killed, euthanized. So I'd like to know, you know, a little bit more about Deebo. I'd like to understand the reason why he was euthanized. You know, what happened there? So that we can talk about this and make sure that, you know, we're approaching this the right way.

I don't know if it's, Attorney Benner, is it getting the, are we able to have discussions within this item or is that getting too, too off-topic, possibly Brown Act issues.

I don't think it's too much off-topic. I think we can continue down a little bit further, but just everybody should be mindful of time, if nothing else.

Okay, so I know you had mentioned those in an email, Julie, and I did try to give as detailed a response as I could, so I'll kind of respond quickly. with, I don't have the dog's behaviors memorized, so I'll kind of read off here. So with Joey, so he did not display, and again, these are the notes that we have at the time of final plea. He did not display human aggressive behaviors other than shelter-specific fear-based behaviors. Given his size, fearfulness, and lack of leash skills, he could present a safety concern to an inexperienced adopter, not because of aggression, simply because I'll read a note here. There was a note from his spay-neuter transport. UC Davis declined dog as surgical candidate. When trying to load into vehicle, dog would flail around with whale eyes even with minimal restraint and three people. UC Davis transporter indicated dog would not be suitable as candidate for their needs as students would be novices at handling. That doesn't mean it's an aggressive behavior. It means he's a big dog and he has no leash skills and probably very few other life skills. He has done very well with multiple volunteer handlers. He was one of our volunteer networkers favorite dogs. They were really advocating for him. A lot of really positive notes. His dog-to-dog introductions were generally not seek and destroy, like I mentioned. They mostly reflect poor sociability. So the behaviors that you mentioned, lunging, snapping, escalating over arousal, mounting, mouthiness, fearfulness, and the recommendation for an adult-only pet-free home, those are things that are manageable in the right home. This is not a dog that we felt was uh would if it got out that it would run across the street and attack someone walking their dog um he was you know um but it was you know when you were introducing these dogs then you know that that can be a different story i i own a dog like that that you know perfectly mine minds her own business but another dog you know someone inexperienced takes their dog and and walks it up and the dogs in her face she's going to react to that there's going to be a growl there might be a snap. So you know it's and anyway that this is kind of getting down the lines of what the city needs to discuss as part of a euthanasia policy is what are what do we consider a safety risk and what are we comfortable sending but so far dogs that just don't get along with other dogs when deliberately placed in close proximity have not been instant deal breakers. Deebo, kennel mate aggression, so didn't get along with the dog, so originally must have had a successful dog to dog introduction because he was paired, but they had a fight, it definitely happens, shelter is an incredibly stressful environment. Barrier fighting, this means that we have these thin kennels, dogs hear other dogs on the other side, they're incredibly bored, they're incredibly overstimulated, high anxiety, they can bark and slam against the kennel and have that, what we call barrier aggression. Escalating kennel arousal. So this is you know An anxiety behavior and then growling in the context of again This isn't growling at a person all these things have to be taken in context for where we've seen them So what we interpreted those as are very shelter specific behaviors that don't by themselves Represent a high level of risk out in the real world but you know, it's we adopted him out, he had, and then he did, the dog was, did in fact become what they described as very reactive and aggressive towards other animals, lunging towards other animals, having really high prey drive, things that we didn't see when the dog was with us, right? We're trying to predict how this dog is gonna react, but it's not a perfect system. So based on that new information, oh, and he also, there was also something about him snapping when the adopter tried to pull the leash, snapping, the adopter so based on those notes that is what we would classify as a red dog so we did not you know place that dog back up for adoption sage um i'm sorry you said you what were you just saying that you classified him as a red dog well that behavior if he's snapping at people if he's lunging and trying to trying to get to other dogs that would be what i would again this is not official shelter terminology but kind of in that red category just for sake of discussion. Not adoptable, not safe for community placement. Based on those new notes.

Which is why he was euthanized? Is that what you're saying? Correct. When you brought him back, okay. Because I did see in his notes that it was a strong cat fixation, which I would think is prey drive, right? Mm-hmm. Okay, so I guess what you're saying then is that, because I'm just looking at the notes here about the animals that appear to contradict that they maybe were green or yellow, and they appeared more red. Mm-hmm. But you're saying, in your opinion, they were green or red. There were no other dogs that would have been less reactive or problematic in final place?

Those were the only dogs that were at imminent risk of euthanasia that we also felt were safe enough for public placement.

Gotcha. And I know that you had confirmed that you do not, or that you only make sure that if an animal is euthanized for behavior, that I guess you'd say that they're rarely euthanized for behavior or that that's the only time you would euthanize them is for behavior, not for space or not for capacity?

I mean, everything's interrelated. That's kind of a hard question to answer because, I mean, in theory, there could be a home for every animal. I've been to rescues that have, you know, dogs that are out an outdoor enclosure by themselves incredibly scary dogs But you know in theory could those homes exist and there's given enough time space could every single even the most aggressive dog find home Maybe I don't think it's it's in any way realistic. So I mean the capacity does does play a part in it And it's also weighing like okay like this dog With these issues is going to be really difficult to like in any time in the near future very unlikely to find an outcome, hence the final plea. But we have not, in this period of this pilot, have not had dogs that we've planned to euthanize for non-behavioral reasons, unless irremediable medical.

because that is why rescues are there for animals that do need more work and do need more time for behavior. And I did, after you said that, after we had our conversation earlier the last couple weeks about about that and when you do euthanize for behavior and that there was no other animals that were going to be subject to that, I just went and looked at all the animals that had been euthanized in the last three months for behavior. And there were 95 dogs in the last three months alone that had been euthanized for behavior. Which brings up another point. So it's not just public safety, it's not just dog safety. because I know you wanted to change some of the language that we had adopted, which is that a dangerous dog would be pulled, a dangerous or potentially dangerous dog would be pulled from the final plea, which I would agree with, to that it would be up to the shelter's complete discretion to determine whether an animal was unsafe or not. And if there are 95 dogs that are deemed to be so behaviorally problematic that they're euthanized, which is obviously pretty extreme, that my concern was that that went to the other end of the spectrum that was a little too far. And so our concern, my concern, and I don't know about the other members, was that that language gave too much discretion. And so, again, what I want to emphasize is that really, what became clear in all this is there's no euthanasia protocols. There's no protocols to determine whether really an animal should be available for public adoption or not under these circumstances and some of these languages that we see here are concerning. What makes them available for rescue only? I mean, just everything. So I think the sooner that those,

descriptions are put in place the safer everybody's going to be including the animals it's humans everybody so that's it for now thank you i agree commissioner benedict yes hi thank you um i uh touching a little bit on what uh commissioner vergas said um i can't remember i'm sorry in your report you had the number of dogs euthanized last month it was four total was I didn't write it down. I know in the 90 days. 45. 45. Okay, that's what I thought. Do you know of that 45? I know we put nine on the final plea. Of those 45 minus the nine, was it behavioral or was it medical? Do you have a breakdown of that at all?

I don't have the exact breakdown, but it would be a combination.

Just to get everybody up to speed, other commissioners too, during our working group too, we talked about the final plan, all the different guidelines, and we all kind of agreed that if it's medical, of course, there's no argument there that medical is seems like pretty tight and dangerous seems pretty tight. Like we know that we shouldn't put dangerous dogs out there. The one that was not so tight and has a lot of gray area is the behavioral part, right? So, and because of that, I thought, um, would, uh, maybe the commission would like to help to make a plan, like to have some guidelines. Maybe we can assist the shelter with that coming up with some guidelines to, to maybe formulate what behavioral, issues might look like or...

It seems like a good idea at the end to put on the follow-up log.

Okay. I'll put that for the follow-up log. Okay, so the next thing I had was going back to the, oh, the 500,000, which is great news. Is there, like, a plan for that or is that something that has to be formulated?

A lot of formulation to go. I think, you know, in general, the plan is to... YOU KNOW, FIRST PLAN IS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DISTRIBUTE THAT GEOGRAPHICALLY ACROSS DISTRICTS AND PERHAPS CONCENTRATED MAYBE IN SOME OF THE AREAS WHERE WE HAVE THE HIGHEST SHELTER INTAKE. THAT'S ONE POSSIBILITY. AND, YOU KNOW, FROM THERE IT'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF FIGURING OUT LOCATIONS AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME HELP FROM OUR COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT WITH THE SCHEDULING AND SOME OF THE LOGISTICS BECAUSE WE'RE DEFINITELY PRETTY MAXED OUT AS FAR AS STAFF TIME, YOU KNOW, TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS. SO, YEAH, SO WE'RE STILL VERY early planning stages of exactly how we're going to roll this out.

Thanks for that. And then I have one more thing, and it's regarding the, was it $300,000 for the capital improvements that was allocated? Is that what it was?

Do you have it, Franny?

$400,000? Okay. Do you have, like, do you know how much the guillotine doors cost? fixing the guillotine doors, how much that's going to cost, and then how much latches. Do you have that breakdown?

So the guillotine doors themselves didn't make it into this estimate. They are looking at a different pulley system to make it more ergonomic and are quite heavy to lift. And there's some concern about repetitive motion there. I do somewhere in my emails have a file that does, I think, break it down. But what I'm waiting for is the revised version of that quote with the new, you know, the breakdown with the curb and with these new latches that we're going with. So what I have is going to be outdated at this point.

Okay. All right. And then my last thing, sorry, I know this is a lot. uh... the uh... as far as the curb goes do you have a number of uh... like official reports of people tripping or do you have some sort of data there i don't know that there's data definitely a lot of anecdotal anecdotal accounts i don't think we've we've kept records of falls specifically from from that as a cause okay thank you

Commissioner Esquith?

Thank you for the report, Ryan. Regarding the behavior, for just real quick yes or no questions, do we have any certified behaviorists on staff? No. We do not. Okay. And do we do doggy play groups, dogs playing for life?

We do do play groups when we can, yeah.

Does that happen on a regular basis? I know staffing is short, so that sometimes is the first thing to be cut.

Yeah, I wouldn't say a regular basis. I believe there's going to be one this weekend, so I think it is when...

Okay, so they're obviously not happening daily.

Right, correct, yes.

That really helps keep them behaviorally sound. And then when- Can you repeat what- Doggy play groups, which is also the most- A notable group is Dogs Playing for Life. Amy Sattler and her group have gone around the country and trained staff at shelters to do the play groups, which really help keep the dogs. It's like when we get to go out, right? We're not stuck in our house all day. We get to go out and do things and go play and so forth. So that's always a plus when they get to do that.

and then if they do see if they are they is there any chance that staff have the opportunity to reassess behavior and see either market declines or increases or does that just upon incident yeah there's there there definitely is and for a number of these final plea dogs one of the things i asked for was another dog-to-dog assessment because it was like maybe the first one or two weren't super conclusive and wanting to get some more data there so that's definitely something we do when it's needed

Okay, and when the pleas go out, is there a summary of the behavior notes that go with it and the medical notes?

Like posted on Facebook or?

With yeah with with the.

Yes yeah so when we like when we've been posting our public information quarter will turn the notes into something you know kind of comprehensible. By the public and try to highlight you know be transparent with the issues that the dog has and but also try to highlight. highlight the good characteristics.

Like a summary, if you will.

Exactly.

Cool. Couple more quick questions. You mentioned that there's an application in for a veterinarian, or an at-candidate, excuse me. Do we, how many vets are we short right now?

We are short one vet.

One vet, okay.

But yes, yes.

Okay, and then regarding the curbs, you mentioned that there was tripping on the existing curb that was still there. Am I understanding that correct or is that, help me understand that, where the tripping hazard still remained?

Sure. What's the best analogy for this? So, okay. Do you ever bold and put the bumpers up? Have you ever done bowling and put the bumpers up so the the the curbs are basically like the bumpers and Then there's you know and the thing that the ball falls into that's kind of like the trench where we would wash everything into so imagine if you like just removed like a section of the bumper and you're like walking along there there would still be you could still like you could still hit your foot on that on that gap and if that makes sense. So if it was completely gone and you were walking along, there'd be nothing to trip on. But if there was still like a piece of that bumper that was still left and every six feet there was another piece of that bumper that didn't get cut out, you could walk along and like kick that.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think I'll come by and get a visual.

Yeah, you're welcome to come by and check it out for sure.

Think of like if you're walking through an empty parking lot, but they have the cement stoppers for a car. There you go. Periodically.

Better analogy. They're still there.

Parts of it are still there. Okay. Okay. And one last thing, just kudos on the adoption event. The more events we can have like that, the more we have to even deal with final pleas and such. So kudos.

Yeah, thanks. Vice Chair Bagley.

Let me just, is it unmuted? Know that I need to have it unmuted. Let me just ask a couple questions from your manager's report. I just had just a couple. Regarding the curbs again, you haven't had a chance to hose anything out. The one that's, I guess, partially done, you haven't had a chance to experiment with a hose where the water would go if this water is draining properly. My biggest concern early on when I heard about this was the infrastructure underneath, what you see, and the flow, and if they're gonna get in there and find a can of worms, and they're gonna say, oh my God, all the piping, and it's rotten, and we gotta replace this and that, and so my question is, this flush drain system is there going to be puddling in the walks walkways because that water can carry a lot of disease to the surrounding animals and then do you feel in what you see that the waste dog poop is not going to be flowing down as easily as it did before. Because that also is where the disease is.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, we have had the chance to hose it out and do all the normal things. So far, it seems like the grade is working out. I mean, generally what the team does is squeegee, so it's not purely a gravity-fed situation. And then... With the solids, we will likely go to just picking those up. That's what most shelters do. And that's best practice as well for disease prevention because you're not spraying things all over. And it's not a lot on the inside. The outside of the kennels are going to still be the old system because humans aren't going in and out of there as much. And typically, especially volunteers, don't use the outside. And so, yeah, not... Not super concerned about that. This will actually, as far as our existing drains, those are functional. The problem is that things keep ending up down in there. Multiple times a year we have to have them come out and clean out. The last time they found like three master locks or something like that way down there. The theory is actually the rats might be like pulling things down there. Because I don't know how else that would happen. There's toys and stuff. So this grate will actually protect our the rest of our plumbing by preventing like the big toys and things like that from getting down.

And then the outer doors, do those open where that would provide access to volunteers to take dogs out so they wouldn't have to go through these curbed areas indoors?

There's curbs outdoors too.

Okay.

Outdoors, the same system.

Got it. You're not pausing on the guillotines, correct or not correct?

What do you mean by pausing?

In other words, it's still part of the contract where that's going to be something that's replaced. To me, that was one of the most important things because it would cause injury to the dog and the tails and everything else that when the guillotines come down too hard, too fast. Are you pausing on the guillotines and you're just doing the latches and the curbs? I didn't understand that.

The guillotines didn't make it into the original quote. Everything, it was the curb removal, latch replacement, the grate, potentially also the pulley system to make it easier to raise and lower. But the actual, like, replacement of the guillotine doors was not part of the estimate.

Is something, the pulley system, is that going to fix it coming down too fast that people are complaining about?

Well, it could. I haven't heard that specifically as a major concern. But, yes, what they're talking about doing is going to, like, a double pulley system that would increase... MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE. SO IN THEORY, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE RAISING THE DOOR, THEY'RE NOT, THEIR ARM'S NOT GOING TO GET PULLED UP. IT'S GOING TO BE MORE GRADUALLY LOWER IT.

HOPEFULLY THAT WILL REMEDY WHAT THEY, AT LEAST THE REASON FOR, THAT IT WAS ON THE LIST ORIGINALLY. AND NOW YOU MENTIONED CITYGATE FOR IT BEING THE CHOSEN VENDOR AND THAT THERE HAD BEEN A PREVIOUS FEE AUDIT IN 2019. WHERE WOULD THAT BE IF I WANTED TO READ THAT? DO YOU KNOW?

I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. I ASSUME SOMEWHERE. probably accessible with a public records request.

Okay. Let me just see if I had anything else regarding this. The daily list, you mentioned to me, you sent me an email that it sounds like something that's doable, doesn't require a lot of staff or resources or anything. It's now on the follow-up at the very end. I guess tonight we'll be talking about how we're going to... handle things that get on to the very end that's outside the poll that we took um but do you think you can do this do a daily list faster than having it be listed as number 21.

Oh, yeah. I don't think it needs a discussion item because essentially the one you sent me, it seems like people contact Bradshaw directly to be added to it, correct?

Well, they just email the one gallon. I think it's an automatic thing and they get on the list.

Yeah. Yeah. It should be doable. A lot going on, but... No, I don't think it needs to wait until whenever that is.

That could be a year. Yes. Okay, so now final plea. To me, they're kind of risky. What I've seen are kind of risky dogs. I don't know that I'd put them in yellow. In an effort to be transparent, I love bullies. I've had seven purebred bullies and five bully mixes. I have two, one right now at home. Love the breed, but I'm looking, I know it very well. Without going into a lot of history, I can tell you that one of them was a potential dangerous and I had to jump through a ton of hoops to keep that dog. Not only the insurance, I had to build a kennel. I couldn't walk it without a muzzle. It goes on and on and on. And my concern is the dogs might be in the final plea now. And if I'm looking at them, I don't just say yellow. I say steering toward orange. And I'm thinking they're getting out and they don't have the hoops to jump through that I had to jump through. I didn't resent it. I understood perfectly at the time. But this isn't quite how I envisioned it, to be honest. And I don't think I speak alone here. To me... I think that there's ways you can determine if a dog is starting to deteriorate from kennel stress. And of course, if you wait two or three weeks, it's going to get to the point where you have cause to put it down for temperament. I think if you wait that extra two or three weeks with that noise, cacophony, stress in that small section, that's what's going to happen and then you have cause and you can just say you put it down i'd just envision that you would find a dog that when it is starting to deteriorate it's not manifesting aggression in its kennel stress it's cowering in the corner it's not fear biting it's not dominating it's not mounting it's not snarling growling are those dogs non non-existent at front street because To me, I mean, they may evolve into that yellow, what you call yellow, what I might call orange, given the size of the dog. I've taken a lot of dogs out of Front Street. Some have been considered perfect in the kettle, and they weren't. And then I've had some that nobody wanted, starting to break down, took them home, and they were wonderful. So we have one shot to get this right. You know, there's a huge difference between an Akita starting to show kennel stress and manifesting whatever natural traits it has versus a Britney Spaniel who's cowered in the corner and you know it's going to start snapping in a week. And that's the one that nobody's looking at. It's not really a Britney Spaniel. That's just an example. It's a mutt. It's unappealing. It's not garnering attention. Nobody has asked to see it. And it's starting to go down. That, to me, was what final plea was going to be. Now, if it means you've got to pause it because we're not getting it right, if it means you've got to change the language or change the thought that, you know, imminent euthanasia, well, then it's worth waiting or pausing or figuring this out because, like I say, you've got one shot to get it right. If we don't get this right, I don't think anybody's going to let us do it again, quite honestly. I mean, it's just my opinion on it, knowing different breeds and having to break up a lot of fights and having dogs that they said were good that weren't. I mean, I don't think I'm the only one here that feels that way. I mean, if I could save them all, I could, but I know they're, and it's so subjective. It's so subjective. Kelly could walk through a kennel, and five minutes later, I could, and she'd say, that one right there is the what, Hillary? And I'd say, that one over here is the what? And it's unpredictable, and it's speculative of what they're going to do. And so when you say, OK, look, the perfect home's out there for this one, that's really scary. And then I had another question. I didn't get a chance to ask it the other night. You know, Friends Street went into no barrier adoption counseling or non-existent adoption counseling compared to what they used to do. They used to vet people. And I want to make sure that that is not what you're using for final plea because these dogs need counseling. two times what you used to do in 2015. You know, now you've got all this fast and loose stuff going on, but that's not the kind of counseling these dogs need. If you're going to be putting these, what I call orange, you call yellow. They need extensive counseling or they're just going to keep coming back. You know, it's one of the few times I have agreed with Mr. Zimmerman on something, maybe not the way he expressed it, but it's a concern and it's risky, very risky. So that's all. It's not a question. I just want you to think about it, Ryan. Okay?

Commissioner Morris?

Thanks. I just had two points on the interim improvements. I know it sounds like... ...or whatever, but I just wanted to sort of revisit. It was a broad type of discussion with, staff and volunteers about issues at the shelter. If we weren't going to build a whole new shelter, what were the concerns? And so they were sort of categories. And so, um, commissioner Barragan, I think you used the term, what was the plan? We, the committee at the time didn't like have a plan. We had categories that the staff and the volunteers and other guests at the shelter had pointed out where safety concerns and and that is listed in the needs assessment. That's, thank you, listed in the needs assessment. So you'll see categories, for example, fix the guillotine doors, repair some. That's a pretty broad statement of what does it mean to fix the guillotine doors, and I will say at the time, then Chair Heffner and I were present for a walkthrough with the Public Works team, and we pointed out the problems, But at least for me, I'm like, I am not an engineer. I'm not an architect. I'm not sure how you fix this, but this is the problem. So I just want to say there wasn't like a specific plan from this body that said, do these things. It was more these broad categories. And then Public Works kind of dived in. And so it seems to me that Public Works kind of took the reins and said, oh, this and that and the other. And so it's not that they're not following a plan that we somehow wrote there they said for this 400,000 we could do this we could do that Commissioner Garcia and I have had taken the pleasure of touring other shelters and she and I have been to SPCA or SP Sacramento SPCA we've been to Bradshaw we were down to Tulare County and we recently were at Elk Grove and it's for those of you who maybe want to take a minute to go to some of these other places, because like I have a picture right here of the shelter enclosures that, and I could pass this around, but it's like, it's not just the gutter. It's, it's like the chain link fences at our shelter that are dangerous. It's the latches. You know, some of you who were there, you know, I look at these latches, this happens to be Elk Grove. It's a very simple, easily liftable. It's not like a little tiny thing. I mean, there's so many options out there. And I've sent pictures to Ryan of these things that I saw. We had asked Public Works to go tour some of these other shelters. I don't remember whether they did or not. But just to say it wasn't like we had a specific plan, and this was the budget for latches, and this was the budget for X. It was like, these are the things that need attention. Thank you, Ryan, for keeping it, like, just do one, and let's get feedback on when. That's what I've heard from you, is that they have done one. They haven't done a whole full 99 kennels. They've done one of 99. And so people giving ideas and input, et cetera, is why they did one. And so if you see other kennels, like I've been sending Ryan these pictures of the grates. What we talked about at Elk Grove was grates that they can lift up and put back down and stuff about the flow of the matter, et cetera. So I appreciate that you're doing like let people look at it and give feedback because I heard about the tripping with the cutting out of separate spots. Public works. The other thing I just wanted to share a little bit with folks is this $500,000 for spay and neuter. At least over the last 12 to 18 months, what I've had the opportunity to be part of and observe is Animal Balance, which is an organization that many of you are familiar with. And Animal Balance has come in and done an intense weekend, so like three days, and done 250 dogs, animals approximately. And the first couple that I think were being done at the shelter were funded by grants, not by city budget dollars. And they were shelter animals. They tended to be animals in foster, because if you remember we had the foster to adopt program. So those hundreds of foster to adopt animals were spayed and neutered through these animal balance activities, which if you haven't been to one, It's an amazing thing to watch and see. The last one that I remember that we did was a public, open to the public. Right, Ryan? We did, like, if you... Just a point of order.

This needs to be a response to the shelter manager, and it's kind of getting off topic. Okay, thank you. I appreciate it.

I was kind of following up on the $500,000. So that was where the difference is in terms of this money or the money for last year, and The one that was for community was partially funded by members of us helping raise money for that one. So this is a new venture, so to speak, with public, with the city money.

Thank you. Thank you. A couple comments I had. Final plea, I agree, kind of reflecting what everyone else said, that it seems like there's more aggressive dogs being selected and you know, it'd be good to see some of the, like, shutting down fearful dogs on there. I don't know if this commission necessarily meant in the proposal that it had to be, you know, this dog is going to be euthanized, like, you know, tomorrow, versus they're heading that way because of behavioral issues. And Shannon actually stole my question about if we had a behaviorist on staff as I know that many shelters do, and that not only are there to assess the dogs, but actually work with the dogs that have behavioral issues, and that would be something that front street looks at in the future uh... ideas actually this uh... between work in this meeting stopped by to go see the uh... one kennel that had been done and and i you know at this point it is just uh... piece of of the cement that is missing so discreet new tripping hazard because people are going to Wander right off and into the hunk that's still there And I'm glad they're looking at different great options I have to say that personally on a as a registered nurse and in the health issue I have a lot of concerns about that that going away because it is a stopper of you know spray being volunteered and watching people hose it and That's what stops the, you know, the kettle wash down from spraying all through the walkway, you know, spreading all of the diseases. That's, you know, we were just asking for a Giardia spread with a nice hose down of shingles. everywhere without that bumper to stop. Personally, I would have thought it had been a little wiser if it's a tripping hazard because it seems like most people aren't paying attention is to paint it yellow so it actually stands out. I do understand that there's incidental stories of issues. It would be good if there was some sort of documentation there were actually injuries or actual problems because it just seems that there's incidental stories. Um, and by the way, and the other thing to think about in, uh, kennel improvements is matching the signage with the new letter buildings to what's on the website. Because I went to go look for Wendy, um, who said she's an M 15, which is actually B 15, which I know that, but most of the public is not going to. So our online need to match what the new building numbers are. I'm glad that we're finally getting the four dog thing hopefully passed to the city council. That'll make me finally legal because I still have one that I, well, he's technically still a foster, but if anyone out there wants to adopt a anxious, neurotic, 106-pound flat coat retriever that does lunge at anything that has wheels, because wheels freak him out. He is still available for adoption should you so choose. And then with that $500,000, community balance, yes, that's a good way for us to use it. So that's all I had. Commissioner Christie.

Thank you. I agree with the other commissioners tonight about the concerns in the final plea. I also just want to remind myself and maybe others that these were some of the concerns that we addressed when we talked about the final plea proposal two months ago and that it felt a bit rushed and the draft felt a bit too drafty to move forward. and the sentiment then was just that we have to push it forward because waiting is going to cost dogs their lives but um you know pausing such a program now to fix things that we've learned along the way seems like a a good option, potentially, because it's not the merit that we are concerned about. It seems like a great idea. It's just the methods that we use to get those dogs out. And so one of the concerns was just emphasizing to those bleeding heart individuals to adopt this dog that has a lot of issues and that could potentially lead to a mismatch. And then when that mismatch goes awry at home, it leads to a dog being returned for euthanasia. That's a really common story, unfortunately, with final plea programs. you know, an unfortunate reality to see it come true. Um, I totally agree with the behaviorist question and I, um, I would ask, you know, not right now for us to discuss it, but I would love for more information on the team that makes those pathway determinations for the dogs. Um, so pathway to public adoption to rescue only status pathway to humane euthanasia. We've talked about, you know, Commissioner Askwith has shared some of the things that she's been a part of with like daily rounds or weekly rounds and the team that evaluates those animals. And I would be really curious what the composition is of that team. And do they have access to all of the continuing ed and support that they would need for that really difficult job that they're put in? So yeah, I'm just hoping that final plea gets looked at more. And I'm curious, Ryan, what and what's, state? Does it go to PP&E on the 23rd? What happens then and what are they looking at?

Sure, I'll jump in on that particular one. So what we have going to P&PE is essentially the background on how the program was developed, the communication that STAFF AND THE COMMISSION AND THE WORKING GROUP HAVE HAD SO FAR. IT HAS ATTACHED THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT, THE ORIGINAL DRAFT THAT WAS PRESENTED ON IN MARCH, I THINK IT WAS APRIL. AND THEN IT ALSO HAS So I've sent sort of a staff revised version of that original draft back to the working group. But we haven't, you know, the working group and staff weren't in alignment on that staff revised draft. So I included both in the P&PE as well as sort of a breakdown of like these are the primary drafts. you know, these are the primary areas of, you know, where staff and the working group aren't aligning.

Okay, thanks.

Commissioner Verga or Contreras? Hi, just a couple quick things. One of the things that has come up in our conversations about, because there's been a couple dogs that have been returned, or that people don't seem to have understood what they were taking on when they took the final plea animals. And one of the things that we were talking about is, for instance, it used to be you had a serious application process and there was a lot of different questions that were asked. It wasn't just about the behavior of the animal, it was about what's your experience with this kind of animal. Do you have dogs, do you have cats, do you have kids, do you have fences? Are you renting are you owning and that used to be I could sleep at night knowing that there was a lot more work done To vet people who were taking animals and I think especially Since this is such a life-and-death situation and you know if this animal comes back or if it doesn't work out It's pretty much lights out that there be a more stringent and maybe specific I'd like it for all animals but in particular for the final plea animals and That there is an application process that's more, you know, defined and detailed. And then the other thing that came up was some of the animals are going to foster, which is great, of the final plea animals. Because I know you said initially you didn't want that to happen. But what you're seeing is that some of these animals are doing so great in foster. And that's what you want to see. And then one of the questions was, or concern from staff was, well, what if they're in foster forever? Foster really should be a temporary measure, you know, and it should be that you keep marketing that animal and you make sure that, for instance, can they go to pet co-adoption center once a month you know that all the animals that are in foster are somehow getting back to where they can be adopted or seen because that is obviously how foster to adopt and a lot of problems happen that you lost track of they were stolen they were lost or whatever foster animals so i think to re-emphasize that foster should be a temporary measure to save lives would be important and then one last question and yes or no please does this agenda tonight is it Is there anything on this agenda tonight that was submitted by the Chair or the Vice Chair to be on the agenda? Any item, discussion item?

No, it was based on the poll priorities.

Okay, so it was not based on the agenda that was given to you by the Chair.

I wasn't given an agenda.

We're giving a suggested agenda items?

What we've been doing is prior to the meetings is sending out what we are planning to place on the next month's agenda. So that's what was sent out. And then I received feedback after that point. But I did not receive a draft agenda. It was also made clear that staff does set the agenda, and that's why we did the poll, so that we could get the priorities across the entire commission and factor that in. And as I sent the email to the entire commission explaining exactly how those were selected, we chose for the main discussion item the highest priority item that could be discussed.

Manager Henderman.

I just wanted to touch on a couple things. One, the concern with these types of dogs, coming out, as this final plea was suggested, I was fully aware that the vast majority of dogs that are at risk for euthanasia have these sorts of behavior concerns. And that was one of the issues that I brought up is, hey, from a marketing perspective, we need to get, it's not just these dogs, we need to get all these other dogs adopted. My concern is we're putting out this messaging that we, my concern is potentially changing the narrative that this is, even though we're saying, hey, these are just the few dogs that are at risk, that that could eventually change the narrative of like, oh, this is the type of dogs that the shelter has, right? Where It's great that we've had a couple successes, but the concern is, have we scared away other people who maybe wanted to adopt because they are afraid of liability or they are afraid of some of these things? So that was one of the cons that I mentioned when we talked about the pros and cons for this program. So share those concerns. Absolutely share public safety. That's my number one priority. But it's, you know, it's a very nuanced thing. You know, initially the working group's draft said two to four of these final plea posts per week. I think that reflects sort of an assumption that there were just so many of these animals that were just adoptable, that were being euthanized, right? We've heard it thrown around so many times, Front Street. you know, euthanized this many animals and it's phrased in such a way that it's like, oh, these were all healthy, adoptable animals. And, you know, that's not the case. Like the vast majority of these animals have, you know, some behavior challenges. The ones that we've selected so far, we felt have been manageable in a home environment that could manage those specific concerns. But I hear what you're saying. And I think we will continue to learn from it. I think with the working group, I'd like to, you know, maybe establish a more regular meeting to kind of talk through these things. I think that's been a better way of going about it than email. And we've kind of thought about, you know, anticipating dogs in need, right? Like, okay, or anticipating our capacity, right? But it's hard to do. And what happens if, okay, we put this final plea because we think we're going to be at capacity, but then it doesn't happen. Or, you know, we think this dog's deteriorating, so we put on final plea, but we don't, you know. It's an option, but that's not, at least how it was, you know, phrased in the draft when we talked about it was for animals at imminent risk of euthanasia, which those would not be, and so there's there's elements of You know honesty with honesty with the public That come into play so I think there's just more discussion that's needed there may be a couple dogs this week that might fit the Criteria, but I guess one of my questions for the group is you know there's that X week we committed you know in like the staff version of the draft to one a week, but if there are no dogs that you know would fit sort of the maybe they don't have any dog aggression issues right what if we what if we don't have any dogs like that can we be forgiven by this group if we don't do a final plea post for that much can we be trusted can we be trusted that there are there aren't green dogs that that fit that that description for example um so just some thoughts there um And as far as returns and euthanasia, returns don't necessarily result in euthanasia. There's plenty of dogs that return that are not euthanized. Red was one example. One of the nice things about Red is that someone else posted him, and that went kind of viral. So there was quite a list of, there was actually a list of people interested. We haven't had that for the other dogs. But we have considered, like, do we want to put some sort of email on this post so that we can collect interested parties? So if the first one doesn't reach out, we can reach out to another. Fortunately, with Red, we had a rescue who was kind of, on backups. That was the outcome that we went with. And yes, it was a very long drive, but it was also a very certain outcome, right? So I think it was worth it. Thank you for your efforts. As far as applications and counseling, yeah, I know in our working group, Andrea, who was part of the adoption counseling process, our public information coordinator, had kind of described a very thorough adoption counseling for Red. And I think for a lot of these dogs, that's going to be the case. We had talked about basically doing a special memo, like taking the exact final plea post and putting it in the dog's notes for whatever dog counselor is going to be working with them to kind of make sure that they're getting all of that, even though theoretically they would have seen it online. So, but yeah, we can certainly talk about that, you know, internally is strict for counseling. There are a lot of animals that have behavior issues that we make a staff-only council. That would probably be the case for a lot of these dogs. And then lastly, I've said I've been sitting on this one, but it just got approved last night. We were able to do basically an add and delete. So we removed... ANIMAL CARE TECHNICIAN POSITION TO CREATE AN ANIMAL SERVICES COORDINATOR POSITION THAT WILL BE FOCUSED ON BEHAVIOR, ENRICHMENT, AND POTENTIALLY MORE TIME FOCUSED ON RESCUE AS WELL. THE THOUGHT BEING THAT OUR ANIMAL CARE TECHNICIANS ARE TYPICALLY THE ONE DOING THESE DOG TO DOGS that takes a lot of their time anyway. So maybe converting one of these positions to a position that focuses on that element of the work that also has the expertise and experience to be able to give more accurate assessments. So another bit of good news, but sorry. That's all for me.

Commissioner Asquith. That's me. I think I'm on. Commissioner Christie, thanks for bringing up the reason some of us hesitated on pushing this forward a little too fast, the final plea. So thanks for that. I think that's kind of where some of us were coming from. Also, Brian, The folks that came in for the dogs on final plea, did they come in looking for those dogs because of final plea, or did they come in and see them in the kennel and want to adopt them from there?

So we've been tracking specifically that. So for red, so for the ones that have... For red they came in because the final plea. So all of all the ones that people came in for were because of the. Final plea post the best of my. Knowledge the only one I'm not sure about is Rupert the cat who has rescue interest but I'm pretty sure actually I don't know if it was. Well probably was because the final play I think it was our one of our volunteer networkers. So it was internal, but I think probably as a result of the cat being placed on final plea, that gave them kind of the boost to look for a rescue for him. So essentially, yes.

Commissioner Benedict.

Thank you. Yeah, I just had a question about the foster dogs. And I just want to make sure that you're, are they all spayed and neutered when they go out the door?

Foster dogs are not always spayed or neutered when they go out the door. They shouldn't be going to foster homes that have another unaltered animal of the opposite sex, though.

Do you guys keep track of all the fosters? I know that was a problem in the past. I mean, do you have a list of here are all the fosters, here are all the dogs in foster, and all their status?

That's very well tracked, yeah.

And you check in with them? Mm-hmm. Okay. That's all I had. Commissioner Barragan?

Thank you. I wasn't planning on speaking again, but the conversation continues to evolve. I just want to say for the record that I don't think it was well settled that staff gets to set the agenda. I think that there was considerable debate on this topic and it was clear that it was supposed to be a collaborative process along with this commission. So that did not sit well with me and I'd love to Now that there's no counsel, if you can point me to some clear language on that, I'd appreciate that. We can connect offline.

We don't have to do it right now, but our office stands by what Mr. Vanderlinden gave this body multiple times. So there's no change in the law.

No, but there was some debate about the interpretation of the law.

The city attorney's office has opined on this now, I think, four times, and our opinion has not changed. Staff sets the agenda with consultation of this body. But at the end of the day, staff sets the agenda.

With consultation from this body?

Correct.

So I think it's important to acknowledge that when making a statement, they're setting the agenda with consultation. It's not a unilateral thing that they're doing.

It is unilateral. After consultation, they set the agenda.

Okay, but so they can set the agenda without consultation as well?

No, they have to consult, and then they set the agenda. Okay, but he didn't say that, so I'm just... Well, I'm not saying. All right. After consulting this body, staff sets the agenda.

Okay. Thank you. And then the other thing that I've grown frustrated with, too, is maybe I'm naive, but I believe in democracy. This commission voted to move forward with the final plea. I understand that people do not on all fronts agree with that. But what I don't appreciate is that we set that forward for the PPE commission to committee to interpret and to decide how to best implement a final plea program. And to be hearing as though there is staff and others that are trying to undermine that process and that democracy and to stack the deck and to do a lot of politicking in the background so that they can say, I told you so, seems really immature. And I think it's very disrespectful to democracy and what I think we're supposed to be doing here in trying to basically volunteer our time. So I'm very frustrated by that. I don't understand what we're doing. If we're just gonna undermine or play games to support your own objectives, it's very strange.

Last speaker on this topic, Commissioner Asquith.

I just, it was me who pushed the button, but I think we're actually, and Commissioner Berrigan, you bring up a few points. I think we're in a real learning curve, a learning process. This body went from seven people to whatever we are, 15. And previously, the engagement with the P&PE committee and or city council was more after the fact. Here's the work that the commission has done. These are the things that have been changed or implemented. The idea of bringing something to P&PE to look at how to implement is is actually, in my understanding, not the role of P&PE that we would bring to P&PE. This program was implemented under the operational and consultation with the commission. And here's what we've learned. Here's what's come out, et cetera. So I think we're definitely in a learning curve on how we work with. P and P or other bodies of the council. Um, and so, uh, I, I just want to sort of say it's because I'm still, I mean, Kathy and I are the longest tenured people and we're still learning like, okay, why, why does that happen that way? And why does this happen this way? So I think I'm interested to see what, what happens at this committee meeting in June from P and P, but, uh, generally the operations, as I understood, were really the function of the staff at the shelter and this body giving guidance.

Point of order, we're talking about the manager's report. It's kind of...

Sorry, I was... Thank you.

Okay, last speaker for sure. Commissioner Berger.

I just wanted to end with that it's always been the charge of this body to bring recommendations to the mayor and city council. It never said that you had to do it at a particular time or at the end of the year, so that's what we are doing. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, we're going now to our next discussion item. Do we have any speaker slips on number four, review of interim shelter improvements?

Yes, I have one speaker slip. Jared?

Hi, I am one of the volunteer adoption counselors and dog handlers at the shelter. I was looking over the one-page outline for the concerns regarding proposed curb removal. I am very concerned by some of the comments in here about outside kennel gates already swinging outward. Our outside kennel gates also have a curb and do not swing fully outward. They do not swing outward enough for a person to get out. They do swing outward enough to let small dogs out, so we would never swing them outward if we had the choice. Further volunteers almost never take a dog from the outside of the kennel. You only take a dog from the inside of the kennel with the kennel doors closed. That way, if you lose control of the dog exiting the kennel, the dog is contained. If you take a dog from the outside of the kennel, the dog now has complete run of the entire shelter and can even escape the shelter grounds. So I would strongly recommend against the testing anything by taking dogs out through the outside kennel. The comments about adding painting the curbs bright colors, I think, deserve some consideration for protecting the public. from tripping over them. I have seen people trip over the curbs, but they will not help the dog handlers. We know very well where the curbs are. We trip over the curbs when we are backing out of a kennel with a 100 pound dog. Making the curb bright orange is not gonna change anything about that situation. I think that is everything I have to say there. Thank you very much for hearing me out.

Thank you for your insight. Manager Hinderman? Do you have anything further to start this? We've kind of spoke a lot of it in your report, but anything else you wanted to add?

Yeah, I just, just a little bit of history. So in 2024, there was a shelter needs assessment that was, you know, combination of staff and this commission. Acknowledge Commissioner Morris and Commissioner Garcia had a lot of input on that. And the conclusion, and that was attached to the to the staff report and the briefing email I sent as well. But conclusion was that we need a new shelter. We need approximately seven acres to build it. And there's a total expected cost of $40 to $60 million. We looked at other options, like expanding the current site and doing a number of different things. But that was kind of the final verdict there. So that seems like a long way off, and it probably is, but if someone started that process five to 10 years ago, we might have it now. So I think starting that conversation, taking some initial steps, moving it forward, even though it's not as motivating, if it's so far off, it's important and it'll make a really big impact on animal welfare someday. I THOUGHT MAYBE YOU MIGHT LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, LEAD THIS DISCUSSION. I'M JUST GOING TO DO A POINT OF ORDER.

CORRECT, WE'RE ON INTERIM IMPROVEMENTS.

OH, WE MOVED INTERIM BEFORE SHELTER IMPROVEMENTS?

I FEEL LIKE WE'VE KIND OF COVERED AS MUCH AS I NEED TO TALK ABOUT WITH THE INTERIM IMPROVEMENTS, SO UNLESS ANYBODY HAS ANY additional questions or thoughts from yeah Kathy is reminding me that in addition to some of the discussion was the way finding with the signage to be more intuitive etc but thank you for pointing out it's not consistent on the website apparently yeah

We have ordered the, I believe we're about to order the little placards that would go on each individual kennel. So yeah, the macro signage is complete, but the micro signage is still.

I think you're talking about on the website, right? So B, which used to be M, the micro ones on the kennel said B. But if you look online and you look for a dog, like I wanted to go look at Wendy, it says she's at M15. But it's B15. Because the online, so chameleon needs to be updated to the correct building designations. But B does have, on all the kennels, has B now.

Good, okay. Almost there.

Anything else on interim improvements? Oh, Commissioner Verga.

So, a couple questions about this, the one kennel that you guys did the fabrication on. How loud was it? How disruptive did it seem to be the other animals in the shelter, like I'm not sure what time of day it was done, but if you could tell kind of how that all went down and how long it took, and then what you anticipate if you're going to be doing that curb work down the road. Because my concern is, you know, I'm not saying that there aren't pros and cons on that, it's just that we need We know we need a new shelter at some point, and that's a lot of money and a lot of disruption. And so I'd just like a better understanding of how that all happened.

Yeah. Before Mr. Hinderman answers, do you have anything else? You haven't even given the report for number four yet before we started jumping into questions. So did you have anything else to add to interim shelter improvements before we get there?

Not that I didn't already talk about. Thanks, though.

I asked. You missed it. I did ask.

You asked, but I was confused about the item.

Oh.

You were supposed to re-ask to keep me on track. I'll keep that in mind. So for the mock kennel, there were two days of work that required loud machinery, so things like Concrete saws to get the curb down there is a generator there was There were grinders so our public works department was kind enough to so we did send all those dogs to foster Sort of what did an extended doggie day out pups and PJs? situation a great response So we got the dogs completely out But something I was very interested in is like okay. Well while they're doing the loud work What if dogs were on the outside? Maybe we could you know for the for the guillotine doors, which are thin metal Maybe we could create some insulation something to prevent having to move all these dogs and One concern there, of course, is we're doing this in the summer, so having dogs outdoors was a problem heat-wise. But those decibel meters also picked up some pretty loud signals. I did just a little bit of Googling. It sounds like 80 decibels is, like, of sustained is what could be, you know, damaging to a dog, and it was, they put it at, like, four different locations, and it was anywhere from, like, 70 to 100 so it's pretty loud um so maybe have the opportunity to do more research on that consult with maybe a veterinarian who might specialize in something like that but it does seem like we would need to go the removal route so the first two days had that had that work being done and then the last day was like quieter stuff so obviously that's with one kennel it'll be a lot it'll be different they'll create efficiencies by doing the whole curb at once so it's not like every kennel is necessarily going to take three days like this one did but that was the timeline for this and so as far as The plan, I mean, we've had such great success with short-term foster in the past, foster for the holidays and whatnot, so that's probably going to be our best tool. But as I brought up to the commission a number of weeks ago, for ideas for projects, other ideas are absolutely welcome.

And question, you also checked the decibels in the kennels that were not cleared out, the other kennels?

We didn't put them that far, no. Yeah, I would suspect that that should be okay though, but we didn't check.

Question, did the contractor give you an estimate of time that it would take to do one building?

Yes, they said anywhere from two to four weeks per building.

Any other discussion on interim improvements?

I would just love to throw out, you know, that there's, And by the way, this list that I got was from volunteers, current volunteers, that I just compiled and put together of one-page outline concerns regarding proposed curb removal. But they brought up things like the play yard, enrichment, like a decompression chamber, or type of chamber for animals that really just need to chill. And that's number eight. secure playyards, you know, of course, guillotines and the latches and all that, that's maintenance, that obviously would need to be addressed or replaced as is needed. But I know that they were talking a lot about the things that could really help the animals have a better environment while they were there, is what I was hearing was more important to them, or what it's worth.

Okay, before we get into our final discussion item, it is 7-19. Seems like we should have a motion to extend this meeting. Otherwise, it will be a very brief conversation.

Point of order. Can I ask a point of order? Here. Could we possibly... put this over to the next meeting. That is the other option, yes. Adjourn at our normal time. I think we've been going three hours many nights and to adjourn and put this over to our.

So is that a motion to move this to our next meeting?

I move that we put the discussion on new shelter over to the August meeting, recognizing there is not a July meeting.

Is there a second to that? I second it. I would just like to make an amendment that maybe it shouldn't be August. We're breaking in July, and maybe there's other more important matters for August. I would say we could put it over and not continue today, but I would just say maybe not August.

Well, it would be based on the poll and the staff. So there's a motion on the floor and a second. May I clarify quickly? Yes.

Is there a motion to move it to a date? uncertain or specifically to the August meeting?

I'm requesting August meeting based on the poll and the intention to work with that.

So if you want to propose an amendment, you may do so on the motion.

I would like to propose, I don't know what I want to propose. I would like to just propose that we push it forward to a future date.

Is there a second to the amendment to the motion?

Second.

Is there a discussion on the amendment to the motion? My discussion would... So we would be discussing whether or not to push it to open-ended. That's the motion on the floor right now, is to amend the motion to push it to the future without a specific date. And that would be what we would be discussing if there's a discussion as such. Commissioner Asquith?

I want to acknowledge that this is important enough because this is something to not keep pushing out. I don't know if I'm on.

Yeah, you're on.

It's just, turn the mic. That it be specifically added to August.

Any other discussion on pushing it out to the future without a specific date? So that is the motion on the floor for which we're voting on is just to amend the motion to pushing it discussion item to a future meeting, not specifying a date. So that is what we're voting on at this moment. So if you all in favor of the amendment.

Correct.

We are asking for a vote on the amendment to the motion. I'm voting aye. So we might need to do a roll call.

I was gonna say do a roll call and that would be easier.

Okay, I've unmuted everybody. So to a date uncertain, moved by Verga, seconded by Bagley. Commissioner Treat is absent. Commissioner Wells?

No.

Commissioner Verga?

Yes.

Commissioner Contreras? No. Commissioner Hayes is absent. Sorry, one second. Commissioner Baraghan.

Aye.

Commissioner Bell is absent. Commissioner Benedict.

Aye.

Vice Chair Bagley. Commissioner Christie. Aye. Commissioner Asquith.

Nay.

Nay. Okay. Commissioner Few is absent. Commissioner Morris.

No.

Commissioner Garcia.

No.

And Chair McDowell. So the motion on the floor as it stands is we move to push a new shelter discussion to a future date unknown.

So that is the motion on the floor. Is there any further discussion of that? All right. I think this one we could probably just do a verbal one. All in favor of moving this discussion item to a future agenda?

This was specifically the August meeting?

No, this is, no, future date unknown.

Now we already voted on that. We just voted on that.

Yes, but now we're voting on the actual whole motion.

Do we need to do a second?

We do? Yep. Thank you.

Yes, we do. So we are voting on moving the discussion of steps for a new shelter to a future agenda, date unknown. The last vote was to amend it from August to future. So now it is the full motion that you are voting on.

Okay.

So all in favor of moving.

Did everybody understand what kind of, I think there's some confusion. So because it wasn't a friendly amendment, we had to vote on changing the original motion. So that's what the first vote was. And you voted in favor of changing the original motion from the original language. So now you're actually voting on the substance of the motion itself.

Welcome to the muddies of politics of which this I'm actually very good at.

Yeah, okay.

So all in favor of moving steps to a new discuss or build a new shelter to a future agenda vote, or all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

No.

No. Any abstentions? The two opposed. Commissioner asks with Commissioner Morris. All right, so this agenda item has been moved to a future agenda. Thank you for that. We have five minutes to discuss Commissioner comments and ideas. agenda and we have and we do have one public i i am moving to move the public at first i have one uh jared you have two minutes take your time um so i wanted to make a couple comments as i am one of the dog handlers for depot and i have done

various meet and greets with other dogs similar to Debo, though I did not do Debo's meet and greet. I did look over the notes on his return and the notes before he left, and I worked with him extensively beforehand. Available for adoption to public does not mean anybody can walk into the shelter and adopt Debo. Before any meet and greet occurs, the adoption counselors, of which I am one, look at the notes on the dog and determine what houses that dog will be appropriate based on the instructions given by the shelter staff and by the dog's personality profile. The first thing we do when meeting somebody before we ever bring a dog to the yard is we ask about their home environment and their experience with dogs. Deebo is a dog I would not consider adopting out to just anybody. We had to have very strong concerns and very extensive counseling. The person who did eventually adopt him received an hour of counseling beforehand. In the case of Deebo, I would probably ensure that the adopter could physically handle him as he is very strong. He also was very, as the notes indicated, very cat fixated. Cat fixated does not mean he has a high prey drive. Cat fixated means he sees a cat, he stops everything until he can go over and say hi to the cat or until you move him along. Cat prey drive, as he sees a cat, and makes an immediate dash for the cat. That indicates to me that when he entered the home environment, the stress of changing environments, which takes roughly three days to wear off, probably drove his behaviors over a threshold. I would, in a case like Deebo, I would have counseled them not to interact with him or take him out of the house unnecessarily for at least three to five days.

Thank you so much.

That's all the speakers I have.

All right, we have two minutes. We have a couple of speakers. At this point, if we actually want people to be able to have a moment to talk about what to put on the agenda, I move that we extend this meeting time. Yes. You can put a limit of... Okay, there's a motion on the... Is that a motion? No. We can finish. Maximum of hour. So is that a motion for 15 minutes? Verga?

Yes. Is it a second? Second.

Okay. Any discussion on extending it only 15 minutes? Okay. We're voting on the motion. All in favor of extending for 15 minutes to be able to have time to put anything additional on the log? Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Any abstentions? All right, folks, 15 minutes. Commissioner Benedict.

Thank you. Yes, I'd like to make a motion. Is this where I can add to the follow-up log?

You don't have to make a motion. You can just make a request.

All right, I'd like to make a request to add to the follow-up log a discussion item for the future to discuss the behavioral assessment guidelines or to come up with some behavioral assessment guidelines for the final plea dogs.

Yeah. Duly noted. Commissioner Berrigan.

I wanted to congratulate City Council for passing $1.6 billion budget successfully that included the $500,000 for spay and neuter. That did unfortunately come at the cost of eliminating 100 staff positions for the city, as well as increasing fees pretty much across the board. that'll impact all the residents that live in the city. So with that said, I do think that it'd be really important to see in the follow-up log a discussion item, and I'd say to make it for the next possible agenda in August, for this commission to weigh in on how to best spend some of that $500,000 on spay and neuter, where to allocate those funds. This commission has set a successful precedent when they did the needs assessment of saying there is $408,000 set aside and how to best make some recommendations for using that money. I think if we have any hope with the city of not running into another deficit, then we need to be really mindful and make sure those funds are spent in the most judicious manner. Thanks.

Commissioner Bagley? Yes.

Okay. I am requesting that a particular item be put on the follow-up log. It's very important to me. I've brought it up twice previously. And it concerns the shelter's lack of response to healthy stray dog calls or stray animal calls. Last week, again, I received another complaint. This one on Facebook. I happen to know the person. and they actually publicized what they had told 311 and the response from 311 was posted on that complaint. I received these complaints quite a bit and I'm assuming the shelter does as well. As you recall, Manager Zimmerman stated at least twice on this dais that he was shocked when he came into Sacramento in 2019 and realized the shelter was not picking up or responding to healthy stray dog calls. I want you to be aware that it's very dangerous. Ryan, I know you are concerned about public safety. It's one of the most dangerous things that occurs. Large, stray, roaming, intact. 90% are intact. In the first six months of this year, 1,176 stray dogs were received over the counter. 400 were brought in by field services, and the protocol is field services only picks them up if they are injured or sick. When I asked Manager Zimmerman about it, he again admitted that it was something that was shocking to him when he came to Sacramento. Understand that the city code requires animal control officers to pick up healthy strays, as does state statutes. And I can meet with Mr. Benner and go over those at any time. This is very concerning to me. that these animals are not coming in and they're being ignored in the community. You talk about bites, attacks, breeding off the hook by these roaming dogs. Not everyone is going to put a 70 pound dog in their car and bring it down to the shelter. And that is the directive they have had for the last six years. It was implemented by Gina Knapp. and it has to change. It's just in violation, and it makes no sense, and it is an extreme risk to the public. So I want to be able to put that on the follow-up blog with some urgency, please, and in the meantime, I can meet with you, Mr. Benner, and we can go over the laws, or I can send them to you. I have no problem with that.

Commissioner Verga? I just wanted to talk about that $500 for us being neutered, and I agree with Commissioner Baragon. that it needs to be more than just animal balance. I'd like to ask that at least go on the follow-up blog as more than just animal balance, that you have mobile spay-neuter clinics that maybe utilize community spay-neuter and SVCA, and in particular that there's an emphasis for cats and kittens because they are breeding out of control. I mean, if you just look at Nextdoor, it's like post after post after post after post of cats and kittens in people's backyard and they're like, how do I get rid of them? And it's tragic. And that's what happens when you turn away animals at shelter doors unaltered. That's what I think is just really a bad byproduct of the reduced intake programs that Friend Street has employed. And that leads me to my next concern is for the standard operating procedures entity that you hired, CityGate, I'm familiar with City Gate, and I know that they have been very involved and supportive of reduced intake programs at other shelters. I've seen their audits and their findings, and I would ask that we immediately, as commissioners, can have a conversation with them and be involved in that process to ensure that they do know what California state law is and that we can have a conversation about that. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner Asquith?

That's me again. Just making an advertisement for at the shelter, there are pride T-shirts for sale. This year's T-shirt, $15 cash. You can get them from Abby or at the shelter in the CAT conference room. That's it.

last year people were excited about them and they ran out so hopefully if people want them you can get there commissioner benedict yes thank you um i'm not sure if this is allowed maybe mr benner can help me out with this one um because we have so much to do i know we're not scheduled for a beaning next month um i'd like to make a motion that we have a meeting next month can we do this you cannot Okay. Okay.

All right, well, that answers that, I guess.

That answers that. Thank you.

By the way, under what precedence is that?

We're at the portion of the, with just comments, ideas, and questions. There's no motion available at this time. So if you'd like to talk to staff about maybe putting one on, they could. But to be honest with you, I don't know who set the schedule of no July, November, December meetings. I think that's pretty standard across the commissions though. Is it?

Yeah. So we're not sure if we can do that then or not.

You can't make a motion at this point.

Okay.

In the proceedings tonight.

So we can make one later?

But no, you can ask staff to look into it. I'm not sure, Ryan, I don't know, do you know why there's no meeting in July? I do not.

I might have a little background. At least from the time we've been on, there has always not been a meeting in July and December, and the calendar for these meetings is adopted today. by city council at an early date, and then the calendar's posted yet, so that's in our- There you go.

So if city council set the meeting schedule, then that's what the meeting schedule is.

Okay, thank you.

Yep.

So if the council is in recess, we cannot have a meeting.

Any commission cannot have a meeting if the council is currently not meeting or in recess.

Okay, thank you for the clarity.

I learned something new tonight, thank you.

A question for the chair. Yes. Do I need to get in queue to ask that? So we voted on prioritizing a lot of things on the follow-up log, and now there's all these new requests for things to be on the follow-up log. So what is gonna be the process for deciding what is there or not? Because I truly think that if they just balance the budget, that's an important, I mean, that's my opinion, right? And we all feel like our issue's important, so I'm just curious.

So that's a good question, although this is not an area we could have a discussion. I was going to talk with Manager Hinderman about putting that on our next agenda to figure that out, but also some of these newer things that may be more time-sensitive, like the spay-neuter. We could, you know, with staff, with consultation with staff and I, can make decisions on that. All right, with that, we have nothing else to discuss, and so that concludes today's agenda. Thank you, everyone, for your participation, and this meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.