City Council - Regular Meeting

deal.

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

water and so matt found me a water because i have to have a drink even though i'll maybe have to go to the bathroom but i still absolutely need that i was trying to find my lip traps

Mexico. I'm not sure if that's how you say it.

What? Your son got his mission call?

Yeah. Mexico? Oh. Oh, nice. Well, his cousin just got back from Mexico. Does he know Spanish? No, he doesn't know any of it.

Well, that's a good thing to learn, let me tell you. Like, we have an opening for our assistant secretary, and we asked if they could speak Spanish, but only one that applied could speak Spanish, so...

Okay, where's Alexis?

Where did Alexis go? She needs to come because it's 5.30. She's in the corner. Should we start without Alexis or tell her to get her butt up?

Alexis.

Yeah, because it looks like she's in a heated discussion. Becky Winger's here. She's been the one sending that email about the RDA and all that. I've just seen her walk in.

Okay, are we ready, Brittany?

Okay, we'd like to start our meeting today, September 1st, 2026. I'd like to recognize all of our council members, Council Member Spahr, Council Member Saxton, Council Member Jackson, Council Member Wilson, and Council Member Hulbert. Council Member Jackson will lead us in the moment of silence in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Please join me in a moment of silence. Thank you. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. OK.

Now we have a business item, and Michelle, you'll be leading us in that.

Mayor and Council, thank you so much for letting us be here with you today. We are here to present a Years of Service Award to one of our Roy Recreation Complex longtime employees. And I'm actually going to turn the time over to Deputy Director Flint to make the actual presentation.

Mayor and City Council, thank you. To my right is Cindy Taylor. To call Cindy a legend at the recreation complex is a major understatement. Today we gather to celebrate an incredible milestone. 40 years of dedication, service, leadership, and friendship, reaching four decades with one organization is remarkable achievement, and it speaks volumes about the kind of person we are honoring today. Over the years, Cindy has done far more than simply come to work. She has made a lasting difference in the lives of thousands of people in our community. Cindy developed aerobics programs including silver sneakers and women's strength training. These classes brought people together, encouraged healthy lifestyles, and created friendships that extended far beyond the walls of the gym. Watching these classes grow and seeing the smiles, laughter, and confidence they inspired has been one of my favorite memories of my career. Cindy, I hope you realize that these classes didn't just improve people's health, they changed lives. For many participants, they became a source of strength, friendship, purpose, and hope. In some cases, I truly believe they even saved lives. Cindy has also been a dedicated swimming instructor. and has led our swimming lesson programs. She didn't just teach strokes and water safety. She gave children and adults confidence to help them overcome fears and equip them with skills that will stay with them for the rest of their lives. It is safe to say that Cindy has taught more than 10,000 young swimmers. That's over 10,000 children who learned water safety, developed the love of the water, and gained a life-saving skill because of her patience, encouragement, and genuine care. Think about that for a moment, the ripple effect of Cindy's work is immeasurable. Every child she taught, every family she impacted, and every person she inspired has become part of her incredible legacy. Her commitment over these past 40 years has been defined by hard work, compassion, professionalism, and a willingness to always go the extra mile. She has been a mentor, a teammate, and a friend to so many. Her positive attitude and unwavering dedication have left an impact that simply cannot be measured. I know I speak for every member of the Recreation Complex staff when I say how fortunate we have been to share this journey with you. We've worked together through challenges, celebrated successes, laughed together and created memories that will last a lifetime. The Recreation Complex in Royce City is a better place because of you. I'd be remiss if I didn't recognize Cindy's family, Arvard and her five children. Thank you for sharing Cindy with all of us these past 40 years. Being in the recreation world often requires evenings, weekends, holidays, and countless hours away from home. Your love, support, and sacrifice made it possible for Cindy to dedicate herself so fully to this community. We are grateful not only to Cindy, but to each of you for making her remarkable career possible. As you celebrate this well-deserved milestone, know that your legacy is not only found in the programs you built, but the people you inspired. Thousands of lives are healthier, safer, and happier because of your passion and commitment. Cindy, thank you for 40 years of extraordinary service, for your friendship, and for making the recreation complex and our community a better place. The only other thing I want to say is this isn't a retirement because she's got to work at least 10 more.

I was just going to ask that.

She's awesome. And, you know, what she does there, I tried to state in the letter, is truly remarkable. And obviously she's a part-timer and doesn't do it for the money. She does it because she loves the people. She loves the facility. And I can't thank her enough. We appreciate her to death. Thank you, Cindy.

Thank you.

I do want to say 40,000 children.

I think that make you the healthiest woman in Roy if you've done water aerobics for 40 years. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Okay, now we'll go on to approve our consent items. Do I have a motion to approve our consent items?

Well, I would just like to maybe pick one of those out in regards to the appointment of our new planning commissioner. I think that... Welcome. Welcome to the Planning Commission, Randy Skadden. We're appreciative of your efforts. So thank you very much and I don't even have any changes for the meeting's minutes. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So that's kind of shocking. But with that all being said, I move that we move forward with consent items to approve them.

OK. So all in favor, say aye.

Second. Second.

I mean, a second.

Anybody have a second? Anybody give me a second?

I'll second.

OK. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye.

Yeah, hey.

Hey.

OK.

on the record so now we will open it up into our public comment period we just state that you keep it to three minutes and just give us your name just be respectful no screaming clapping yelling and if any if it gets out of hand you will be escorted out of the building so just come up to the mic and talk about anything you want and you have three minutes

Dave Young, I watched the last meeting. You guys survived four and a half hours. It's amazing. I've lived in Roy a long time. We first moved here when I was three. Remember the dirt roads and the septic tanks that overflowed? Without tax dollars, we would still have smelly yards and dirt roads. It's a hard pill to take for a tax increase, but it's been long overdue. We've been kicking the can down the road for far too long. So I applaud you and your individual points of view and why you voted for it. And I do back the fact that we needed a tax increase to further the city. And in the last meeting, there were several that asked Where in the Constitution does it give you the right to tax? That's the 10th Amendment, which hands it over to the state constitution, which is Article 13, which sets up the ability for cities to tax. And Article 11 allows you to manage those funds that come in. So if they wanted to know, sounded like an open-end question to me. I looked it up and found it. Anyway, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Hello, Council. My name is Jeff Cox. Yesterday, there was an individual that crossed 5600 and 1900 West, and a vehicle, while the pedestrian light was on, A person was two lanes in, and a car came straight across, turning right, heading west, and missed that individual by about four feet. The car continued on. That person yelled at him. They never stopped. They never showed the brake lights, what I understand, and continued driving on. The report was made yesterday afternoon. And I want to compliment the Roy Police Department. Officer Baker Ward and Benson jumped on this wholeheartedly. The situation is is that it was me. So I can validate what happened there. The right turn lanes there are horrendous. One of the worst I've ever seen. I put it all over the ROI websites and it turned out that I had more responses, phone calls and texts coming back to me saying, this happened to me. This happened to me. This happened to me. Well, guess what? At about 4.50 today, I went out there again. Oh, by the way, before that, I went back to the scene of the crime, okay? I figured this gal that I saw would be returning. It looked like she was driving to work. Sure enough, caught her. Okay, so we'll see what happens with Roy PD. We have a bad situation there. Let me get into the video. The video I took was a mother and her child at 4.50 this afternoon coming the other direction. That person before was me going north to EOS. She's coming, excuse me, going south to EOS. She's coming north now. So I sat there, sat there, and I said, gosh, I sure hope I can see something so I can show you. As soon as she hit that light, guess what happens? Yellow lights are blinking. People can't see clear across the road. They're walking halfway. All of a sudden, the traffic's going by. They're stuck in the middle of the pedestrian lane. No place to go. The girl's so scared, she drops her stuff. So all the cars stop. I mean, it was ridiculous. But I got a video to show every one of you to get my point across. My... opinion in correcting this as soon as possible would be first of all maybe zebra stripes the other one is a sign and the other one is get those darn lights fixed okay thank you very much thank you

any other comments nobody has nothing okay then we'll go out of our public comment period nope oh i was gonna say that was the shortest comment

My name is Trevor Dearden. I live along the street that the homes will be proposed for the 43 units. Just wanted to say that we're not against homes being put there. That is on record. Please build there. That's fine. Just not 43. The road is physically not able to handle that traffic, for one. There's too many people. It is a very residential side street that will be well transited. Though the road is not able to be transited by 80 plus cars for 43 units, give or take a few. Please use it as zoned. That's totally fine. Nobody's against building homes there. Just not 43. 25 is just fine. We're just fine with that. But that amount is very dangerous. There's too many issues with kids being hit. There's too many kids in that area. Please use it as zoned. 43 is too much. We're fine with the zoning and the homes being put there. Thanks.

Thank you.

My name is Clay Crabtree. I'm here to speak on the same thing that he just did on the action item on the 43 homes trying to be built in that field. My house borders the field. I have a backyard that does it. We addressed this item three months ago. I don't know why it's coming back, but it is. It puts a good three to four houses across my back fence. They're too close. The area is zoned for an R8, and that goes with the uniformity of the rest of the neighborhood. We'd all like to do different things and make things bigger and do everything. We just did a big remodel on our home. And I know I could have asked for variances. But due to the respect of my other neighbors, I didn't do that. I didn't want to be right on top of them. And if you go with these 43 homes, that puts all these houses on top of everybody that lives around that field. consider it to all the people who live there and that's what we have zoning laws is it so all these people can live uniformly and you know maybe have one or two houses on my back fence and that's fine i'm not against building back there but i'm against cramming all these houses in there in an area that's not designated for that kind of houses um So we just have to be, you know, follow the, your votes that you did last time and, and think about it and not put everybody else in a situation where we're all compact in there in the road situation too. It's not. an easier to get in, there's really one access, there's two, but the other one winds through the neighborhood so you can't get to 4800 very easily. And so it puts a lot more traffic on that road and a lot of other things. So we ask you to consider for the sanctity of our neighborhood is to keep that at the R8 zoning that is already set. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor and City Council. My name is Shelly Polston and I'm coming to you this evening in peace and in my status as one of the people to give you notice and instruction so that you and your agents may provide you care. I am here tonight to remind you once again you are trustees and servants of the people, and that you are obligated by contract and trust indenture to uphold and defend both our federal and state constitutions. Tonight, I am handing you eight envelopes containing follow-up notices for the mayor, all city council members, the police chief, and the city clerk. On Tuesday, August 11, we served you notice and demand to immediately cease and desist all violations of private property rights of the people, asking, where does it say in the Constitution the people's money is not their own property? Where in the Constitution did the people grant our servants the authority to deprive us of our constitutional rights to property? What does it say in the Constitution that you can use the people's money for programs or perks that violate their private property rights? Where does it say in the Constitution you can use the people's money for the complex or the aquatic center that are not for the people's equal benefit and enjoyment? Where in the Constitution does it say that people cannot use their own property as they see fit? what does it say in the constitution the government has equity in my property in addition we instructed that if you believe as government servants any of the claims in the notice are untrue that you were to post the grant of authority conspicuously on the city of roy website home page within five calendar days Please take notice the city website was checked on August 18th, 2026, and there was no such posting. Therefore, you are in default of our lawful notice. And if you take any further action against the people violating the people's private property rights to enjoy in all forms, then any future actions will be construed as being done with malice, intent, full knowledge, and understanding against your trust indenture, your contract with the people. That would be the Constitution. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, council members and mayor. I live on- You tell me your name. Sorry, I'm Jeff Harward. I live over on 3900 West. I'm here to talk about the 43 homes as well. There's nothing more I can say than the other two gentlemen. But I have to agree with them that 43 homes is too many. The street, we don't have- There's no secondary water on our street on 3900 West. I don't know if you guys know that or not, but there's no secondary water. So we have to use culinary water to water our lawns, to water our plants, for anything like that. I don't know about the street behind the field, but I know that there is no secondary water that is in our street. So that's going to impact not just us, it's going to impact city water as well and what is available. I'M GOOD WITH BUILDING. THAT'S FINE. BUT 43 IS TOO MANY. WE NEED TO CONSIDER THE SAME SIZE HOUSES AND THE SAME LOTS THAT ARE THERE. SO THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

Hi, City Council. My name is Rachel Sandoval. I am a resident here in Roy. I've grown up and lived here my entire life. And I love living in Roy. I am 23 years old. I just recently graduated college. And I'm not able to afford a house. And it's really sad. I want to be able to grow up in my community, be close to my parents. And I also would like to note that I got a degree in finance with an emphasis in real estate. With that understanding, housing, yes. Density, I understand the hold backs of having that high of density, but there's also an understanding of economics behind that. In order for things to be affordable, there has to be a balance there. So creating a house that, sure, it's smaller, but it also allows for the prices to be lower. The house next door to my parents actually went for sale for $750,000. That's not even credible for an FHA loan. The houses that they're proposing on this 43 lots are credible for people like me that want to be able to afford a future home to use an FHA loan and also have a house that's new on code and also just be part of the community that I love and I want to stay a part of. I think that's an important part to remember. A lot of these, with the cost of inflation and cost of housing, there has to be a balance there. It can't just be build equalized houses and expect the same price when 23 year olds can't afford that. There's not the price induction for that for us. And so I want that to be considered when looking at this site plan that yes, it is a lot of houses, but that's a lot of people that you're helping out being able to stay in this community, stay close to the things they love and be parts of their family still. And I think that's, very good thing to consider, not just the fact that there's a lot of houses there. It's more people, more community, and that's better for Roy. Thank you.

Hi, council members and mayor. My name is Laura Burrows. I also live in the same neighborhood. And to speak on the housing community that's going around the area, my house backs up to that field. I have two little girls. And honestly, I'm going to tell this. It comes with maturity when you buy a home. And so when you have a home and you're looking at a $750,000 home, it's because you've earned it. And at 23 years old, you have to earn those rights to be able to afford a home. I don't want 43 homes to go behind me because I want to make sure that the people that are going to go behind me are going to be mature about having a home to call their home. I'm speaking with a lot of emotion with this, because I don't mind you guys developing the property. Develop it. It's great for that property to be developed. I want it to be smart. I don't want somebody that's not going to appreciate it and have the value to hold behind it, too. There are a lot of homes available in the area that have 400,000, not 750,000. There's a lot of options and you don't need to put that behind our property. Zone it for what it's supposed to be. The two gentlemen before me spoke very clearly on that. I can't add much more to that other than my own personal effects and making sure that my home is gonna be safe for my family too. Thank you guys for everything you're doing and consideration with all of this and hopefully we can make good choices with that. Thank you.

Hello, my name is Stacy Crabtree. I live right by the field. As we've been talking about the field and all the things that could go into it and the 43 houses and all of that, if you drive down 4800 right now, a week ago, you were stopped by a stoplight. You couldn't get past the 4,800 because of construction on the road. It has made traffic out of control out there some mornings to get kids to school. And if we think about it, of adding so many more people trying to get their children to school, It's out of, it's nuts. We have to wind through neighborhoods to get to the elementary school. We have to go different directions and add five minutes to a drive, which I know construction needs to happen and roads need to be fixed. But you have to think about when we add this many people into a little tiny area, that changes how construction on roads are gonna work. We also, I was looking up to see what are the houses that are available to buy here in Roy. We have 161 houses to buy at the most. There's some for 500, some are crazy at 700, but you have the majority of the homes that are for sale are for 400 to 450. That's exactly what he is offering on a teeny tiny little lot of .1 of a lot. um why why change the zoning to make it a smaller lot and as we discussed in the last council meeting there's not enough room in his proposal for fire trucks to get through there's um there was no sidewalks there was nothing to take care of the runoff of of all of those things our yard floods every year when we have a lot of water and what happens when you do bring in a bunch of dirt, lift it up, and all that runoff comes straight to my yard and floods my house every year. Yes, we had no rain this year, I get it. I understand the suffer of that, but we also... If we have a hard winter, I'm underwater and it's from the field and there's nothing I can do about it. But other than dig a trench in the field like we've done, put a retention pond and the ducks come and swim when there's lots of water. So I need you to pay attention to, yes, we would love it to be developed so that we have better runoff for the water, but do it a right way and remember that your decisions affect all of us on our daily basis and that we would love to see our community grow and have a flourishing good area but we need it done correctly thank you

Hello, City Council and Mayor Jackson. My name is Mark Meyer. I live near the lot, the field. I think when we had seen through some announcements that this was back up, for consideration, and it kind of just left, I think, the community at large just kind of wondering, well, what's changed since three months? What's gone on in that time? And I'd be open to seeing what's going on, but nobody knows. So I think that's part of the defensiveness and what's going on. It still looks like there's 43 homes, which was the primary concern. And there are, as has been mentioned, there's lots of homes that are for sale. I have a hard time thinking that those are going to go for anywhere less than $500,000. each of those homes. The whole idea is that we're making this affordable housing, right? But for a 23-year-old, 500,000, that's still considerable, right? So it's not like it's a one decision fix here. I will say our kids play on those roads. There's gonna be a lot more cars. There's a lot of traffic already. We live at a T and there are constantly people coming around those corners. And they come around really quick and they're always, it just never stops. And when we're gonna add potentially 43 more homes, which is at least probably around 80 cars, right? More cars going through there. We're going to see more of that. It doesn't make me want to let my kids play outside in the front yard. And there's lots of other people that have concerns about that as well. I'd also be interested to see what's going on with the watershed. There's the wetlands in that area as well. I'd be interested to know more about what is going on with that and how the city is planning to address that concern as well. I think that they should leave it zoned as is. In our last city council meeting, person after person after person, nobody is... against putting homes on that lot on that um on those lots um we just want it to look like the rest of the community and be a part of the community it's going to be separated it's going to be um there's going to be tensions um with with everything that's going on um so I would ask for for your consideration and I appreciate your all this time. And thank you, Janelle, for answering emails. Thank you. Appreciate you.

Okay, now no more public comments. We'll go out of that and go into our action items. And Brody would do the 26-4.

Thank you, Mayor, City Council. So this is on the agenda as a reconsideration for ordinance number 26-4, which is a development agreement with Stewart Land Company. This is, as stated in the public comments, but it's approximate locations on 3925 West, 4965 South. The original development agreement came before the council, it was for 43 homes that was denied by the city council. So it's back on for reconsideration and I'll talk a little bit about reconsideration. So reconsideration is a lawful avenue which any applicant has with the city council to have something reconsidered and put back on the agenda. And that's part of state code as well as our adopted city ordinances which adopt state code. The way this functions procedurally is it's kind of a two-part process. The first is an actual motion to reconsider so that before we actually even dive into the details, That has to be motioned and approved by a majority of the council members to even have the discussions. If no motion is made or if the motion is made but does not pass, there is no consideration on what would be the changes or amendments to the development agreement. And it dies and it's over. If there is a motion to reconsider made and it approves, then we would dive into some presentation by both myself and the applicant, Mr. Brown with Stewart Land Company. One kind of factual thing that I want to make clear before the motion is made is the motion to reconsider does change the development agreement. I believe in conversations with the applicant, there's a desire to lessen the amount of houses. I believe the number's 39. So there is some change to it. Again, that's the applicant's prerogative to do that. The reason that's not in the packet is ultimately We can't discuss that until you guys make a motion to reconsider it. Otherwise, nothing changes. So with that, I'm happy to answer any questions that I can at this time about the procedure or the motion to reconsider. But that is where we're at with this and how to do it correctly under the law.

Any questions? Do you have any questions?

No. Can I just clarify the first thing that would need to happen in order to reconsider is just a motion that the council would reconsider it. That's all.

So do we have a motion to reconsider 26-4? So moved. Do we have a second? So seconded. Okay. Brittany, do a roll call vote.

Aye.

Aye. Okay, so we have three votes so now we'll have a discussion on Yes, so I believe with

Input on that, Mr. Brown is here. I'll kind of turn the time over to him to present his proposed changes on the development agreement, and then I'm happy to answer questions or jump in if needed, but ultimately it's Mr. Brown's presentation as the applicant. Is there any questions for me before I?

Council, first of all, I want to thank you for the consideration. I know we've had lots of discussions, and I recognize that this has become kind of a hot button item, which signals to me that this is a community that cares about their community. You have something special, and I understand the desire not to want to disrupt that. So thank you for taking a look at this again. What we are proposing is not wildly different from what we proposed last time. We did reduce the unit count. in a significant matter for us. I know some would like it to be more. We're trying to compromise and do something that we're able to do and we think would be a benefit to the city. So it is 39 homes. It is that smaller lot size. Do you know if anybody got this thing I emailed you? Okay, this document I gave you guys kind of shows kind of the comparison between what it would be as zoned and then what we're proposing. And the best we could fit as zoned is 16 homes with about an 8,000 square foot lot size. versus the 39 homes at about an average of a 3,200 square foot lot size, which is, you know, from the beginning, that was what we discussed and patterned after a different community here in Roy. And for us, the big thing is one, that we're able to do it, and two, that Attainability, having something that people can afford. And while I think it was Mark said that even if these aren't in the $450,000 range, It's not the best. I wish I could solve that problem. I have siblings that want to buy a house that can't, and there's not a lot available, and it's hard. But as you can see on this, if we were to do the as zoned, and again, we're a land development company, so we don't build the homes. We can't dictate pricing. The market does that. But on that size of a lot, The average or typical home price would be in the $675,000 to $700,000 range for a new home. Conversely, what we're proposing would end up being around a $450,000 home. And this is very similar to the Highgate Cove community. And that... That size of home seems to be what people desire, and that community is sold out. There's no more available there. And I spoke with the agent there, and he said there's plenty more people wanting that. So anyways, I think it's a great way to try and address that need. And I wish I could answer or dictate if there are older homes available and why aren't people buying those. But we're trying to do our part of what we can do. Traffic's been brought up a lot, and I've talked to traffic engineers about this, and as you can see on here, the local streets, 3900 West would be the biggest one that would be affected by this. There is sufficient capacity for even if this whole project only went out on that street, there's plenty of capacity based on the standards for local streets. Then on 4800 South, it's pretty negligible. Those are designed for a lot more homes. A few other things on this thing before you is, you know, it is a tax benefit to the city. I mean, impact fees and yearly taxes would go to the city. And, you know, a lot of these issues, you know, as you look side by side, you know, Stormwater, for example, yes, they would make us, if you leave the stormwater issue, the engineers wouldn't let us, you know, leave the stormwater flooding people's basements. And so that's something we would have to solve. The varmints have been a problem and, you know, but if We just can't do it on the current zoning. So the alternative is those stay as they are, both the taxes and the stormwater fixing. And we are hoping that this can be a spot that brings community together, not just separate communities. And I know, you know, some kids like to play in a big field. I would too. Our hope is here, as we show on the site plan, we'd like to do a little pocket park and have, you know, a little hub where kids can come play and, you know, integrate into the community. So... I feel like we've really tried to listen to the neighbors. You guys are probably sick of hearing from me. We've tried to take in your input, and we feel like we've made significant concession, and we hope that it can be helpful and end up something that is uh a win for the city something you can be proud of and and a few years from now i hope the neighbors even are are happy with the new neighbors that come in but well thank you and and i don't know if you want have any questions for me now or want me to come back up so do you have any questions council

I have a couple of questions, and I think you have answered all of these, but maybe just to reiterate. So some of the key issues I have of concerns was the standing water concern. But I believe you said is that the retention pond that would be built up there in that right top corner would actually take care of that problem for the neighbors. Is that correct? So then that would actually alleviate them of one of those concerns?

Yes, right now it's called sheet flow. It just runs off where it runs off. When we engineer it, you know, your city engineer, John Biergard, he double-checked, make sure all of our stormwater is going in the appropriate places, nothing is leaving our project. And I've talked to a few of the neighbors. And if there are things, if there are concerns that, you know, fall outside of that, Now would be a good time to look at it. And I told them we can wrap that into our analysis and see the why, if we've got engineers out doing that anyway.

And then the traffic, it looks like traffic studies show that that would be a very minimal impact. And so that concern at least could be alleviated. So that would be a relief. And then you were talking about the new park. There was a question whether or not the new park would be open for everyone. So I believe what you just said is that new park would be open for everyone, not just people in HOA. Or how does that work?

it would be it would be a private park as these roads would be private and so would be hoa controlled but like i said my my hope is that it's a neighborhood hub that's where kids come to play you know that's what i would want if i lived there or if i were neighbors so they're welcome to come to the to that park okay even though it's private thank you and then um a question had been about the fire

and the concerns with fire. So maybe you can address that with us. Is the fire risk of having those homes with closer side yards any different than maybe some of the town homes or some of the other problems? Maybe our Deputy Chief King could just address that for us.

No, so our biggest concern is at least they have an entrance and an exit that's separate from each other to allow two different ways to get into the subdivision. And that roads are maintained in a certain width, 26 feet, to allow for our apparatuses to go around the corner, which he has currently met.

Okay, all right. And then you've already kind of addressed affordability. It's really what we call attainability, which was nice to have that kind of brought up. Those were some of the concerns I'd noticed in some of the emails and some of the comments that had been made. So I appreciate you going over that.

Can you tell me where the information that you got came from on traffic? It is consistent with what I found as well in talking to the city planner, but I'm wondering where you got your information on that traffic difference.

So our engineers, Civil Solutions Group, Michael Taylor is the one I discussed it with. He gave me the unit counts. Based on a... I just pulled up that email in case you asked me. So based on... He said, 41 homes would produce 369 trips a day, 37 trips during peak hour. And then we went through and His assumption was we split half to each side. And I said, well, I think the community thinks most are going to go out to 3,900. So we took 75% of that. 263 trips would go there. The standard is 1,000 trips a day for a local road. And then we looked at the overall area and all the area that kind of would drive out that way. And I think it said 56% is the capacity that it hits of that availability. So it was not an official traffic study. It was more based on the standards and a conservative estimate. You know, like I said, he was assuming less than 75%, and I pushed it just so we were sure. And, you know, alternatively, if it were 16 homes, you know, that's 41% of capacity rush hour. So based on the same.

Thank you, actually, for encouraging that detail in the... You say, like, traffic engineers? Is that... Yeah. So it's really good to know that you pushed him to really... factor in the routes that people would tend to take and that was what I found as well speaking to some residents that that are surrounding is that that 3900 is going to be the choice and so it's nice that you you took that extra step to just say hey let's not split it in just half you know let's let's give it reality and I really feel like um seeing the plan that you really have done a lot of extra work that you didn't have to do that you could have easily put this in there and say well it's even less you know but you wanted to make it realistic and you wanted to make it honest and I commend that um I had another question about parking. I briefly spoke about this with you but I just wanted to get a little more information and maybe to make sure that we can hear that as well publicly and can you talk a little bit about the parking, what parking is incorporated for each unit and street parking, that kind of thing and kind of address some parking concerns because that does seem to be one of the other things that is talked about often.

And I don't know if the city has any specific parking regulations for a subdivision, but it is a concern for us. We want something to be livable. So each unit would have a two-car garage to... AT LEAST TWO SPACES IN THE DRIVEWAY, PLUS STREET PARKING, AND THEN WE'D LIKELY DO A LITTLE PARKING LOT BY THE POCKET PARK. So if this were a townhome project, you know, we'd be like over 44.2 or something stalls per unit, which is far and away more than needed. So especially in this area, that's important to us as well.

I heard a little bit of rumbling. So maybe I misunderstood on that park that you said would be a private park and run by the HOA. So does that mean other people could come to that park or they couldn't come to that park? Or is that under HOA regulations that would be in the future?

It's HOA controlled. So in reality, what that looks like, I don't know of places where they police that. Like I said, if I lived there or if I lived nearby, I would hope there's a spot where kids can go play. You know, if my kid had friends in that neighborhood or if I lived in that neighborhood and my kids had friends outside, you know, I think it would be great to have something where people can play. But I can't guarantee exactly how the HOA, you know, would police that.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments? So street roads, HOA roads are not city maintained, so the HOA maintains plows, all that kind of stuff, enforces whatever parking thing they've got going on there, and that's just all their responsibility. But sewer, water, those are going to be city, right?

Be city, yeah, in a public utility. Sure.

Okay. Thank you.

so do i ask for a motion for reconsideration of 26-4 with the changes of how's that go you would just ask for a motion on the the development agreement since the reconsideration has already been voted on okay before we do that i i have a couple of thoughts to myself um in wrapping up um

I appreciate, oh, I'm sorry, I actually did want to ask from the police department if you could give us any insight on safety in the area. And this is why I see that. We have a couple of, we have a comparison chart here, and that's 16 lots versus the proposed 39. But when I was speaking with the city planner, The current zoning, as I understand, could actually go to 25. And is that your understanding as well? That was what he and I talked about, and that's what I came away from our discussion understanding. As it's zoned currently, it is possible to go up to 25. And so what we're looking at... Theoretically. Theoretically, right. So you picked the smaller end of 16 to 25.

Well, we site planned it. It's a unique... Part of the reason it's hard to build on is... Oh, I see. With a double, you know, roundabout. There's not the width of it. You can't get two roads in. Okay. It's hard to get double loaded roads. And so that's one of the reasons.

So theoretically, 25 lots is allowable on this parcel. And so we're looking at a difference of 13, 14, 14 units.

Yeah.

Yeah. not zero to 39. We're looking at a difference between 25 and 39 units. And so I guess my question is with those, with about 14 units difference, can you, can you speak to how, I mean, just on a safety concern on the safety level, as far as children about and traffic in the area, the difference between 25 and 39 units. So I don't,

I don't think we'd be able to say one way or another specifically on that. Having the field developed for us, for what we, you know, current crime that we see that takes place in that field, it would be better to be developed than to be maintained as a field. And the only other thing that I could say is as an HOA with private parking and 27 foot wide roads, we can't enforce parking there. So take two vehicles on opposing sides of the street that decide to park there, you're not getting emergency vehicles through there. So that's the only thing I could say with development that close and that tight together with that many, That's the major issue with the fire that happened along the train tracks. 2675 is basically a football field wide. And that was a massive help to us in moving people in and out during that and all the emergency vehicles, equipment, and everything. So the wider the roads would be better for us. So I can speak to that. As far as more or less houses, I couldn't necessarily say.

okay well that's interesting something i don't think has been brought up yet um as far as width of the roads with police concerned um however i i do also wonder if i don't know how this works with an hoa and like because there are certain requirements the hoa still has to have like the width the width of the road building height all that stuff still has to be adhered to and so If parking on the street cannot allow vehicles to get through, is that something that we then could require the HOA to say you can't park on the road because our vehicles can't get through?

Yes, and the 26 to 28 foot is the minimum available for fire. That doesn't mean that's our road cross section. I'm trying to look up what it is. But if... I wish I had in front of me. Yeah, we either have it wider, wide enough that you can park, or it's red marked and you can't park on it. And that has to be enforced. Sure.

Okay, but we could do that if that was ended up to be a problem. But as the project... goes forward, if things like that become an issue, will they not resolve it during the project? Will they not make amends to the proposal? As it goes on, if we start to see a problem, hey, this isn't going to meet requirements for safety, will they change it?

There would be.

Sure. And if changes are deemed necessary, could they reduce the number of units accordingly?

Okay.

By the way, I did pull it up and our private right of way is 38 feet on the current plan, so.

It's 39. Okay, so do we have a motion for development?

Do you have more? Oh, I just wanted to, I wasn't gonna make a motion. I'll leave that up to one of you. But I just wanted to say that I am, first I wanna say I'm impressed with all the citizens that came up and spoke very respectfully. I think they were thoughtful and I do appreciate that. And I also wanted to say that I appreciated you trying to change some things to accommodate the things that we had talked about last time. There's some things I would still like to see changed, obviously, to make it what i guess i was hoping from less homes more parking things like that but um but i do think that i i just do appreciate you taking the time to try to listen and try to change that and that's why i wanted to give you the recon like the opportunity for us to reconsider is because i did i think that when we ask someone to change something then they actually go and try to change it then that should be something that we listen to, if that makes sense. So I do appreciate that. And I have to admit that I've been torn on this over the weekend because I do see pros and cons to each choice. But I do think after hearing all this stuff, I have made a choice. But I do feel better about my choice having listened to the citizens and to you. So I just wanted to say I appreciate that.

Maybe I can just go ahead and ask a question in regards to the layout and the site plan. It sounds like once this gets going, this may well be changed. We may have some adjustments. So this is really just a preliminary site plan, which could be adjusted as more information, more engineering is done, and that sort of thing. Correct. Uh-huh.

Correct. Yeah, well, next steps are you get an official ALTA survey done, get a geotechnical report, get a, you know, a topographical survey. So maybe the... And the detention ends up in a different spot just because where it flows or, you know, can't be as deep so it needs to be bigger or some of those things. Or, you know, in the review sometimes setbacks need to change or, you know, something that we haven't noticed or the engineer hasn't noticed. So, yeah, that is a fluid process.

And I was just going to mention on the development, I think there are just a couple of typos. Do those need to, Attorney Wilson, do we need to mention that right now if we were going to do something about a couple of the typos on the development agreement? Or would that just be part of it? No.

yeah the only typos would be the the numbers basically if it's not within your your motion then that should be addressed but if it's um one you had pointed out i think the the high gate we could fix that easily and then and then on the definition one that would just be consistent with what we what might be said earlier yes okay all right

I had a couple of final thoughts, and I was glad that I remembered to ask the police department if they could kind of add a little bit more to the discussion, too. That helps. certainly not in the business of fighting fires or policing or engineering. And so I consider myself somebody who needs to collaborate with professionals like that in getting information to help me make informed decisions. So on the surface, I look and see, well, yeah, I mean, if I say it's, you know, what if we got 39, so maybe 40, 80-ish more cars maybe. I don't know what that looks like. In my mind, I go, that's a lot of cars. I then defer to those who make it their business to engineer that and to figure out how much that actually changes. And so I appreciate that because in my world, I think 80 cars is a lot. Driving down the street, it appears that it is marginal in the change. It is a change. It is an influx. in traffic. But as I was also speaking with the city planner, I learned that it was so marginal that actually a traffic study is not warranted after this gets developed. And so it is more than is currently zoned for. I also noticed a couple of things about the development, and it seems to be that all those that border the development have their backs to it. And to me, I see that as a self-contained project that kind of puts a natural barrier between the project itself or the HOA and the surrounding neighborhood. And I think that I see wisdom in that. I also see wisdom in trying to match the home values of the homes that surround it. So I also tried to go and look at average home values and I didn't like pull an average, but I selected some houses and they're in the 400 to 450 range through the county assessors. Obviously that's usually fairly conservative and homes are gonna sell more and this falls right in that. So if I think about if you're matching how much a home costs versus how big the lot is, back in the day when this was developed originally, everything around it, those would have been more equal. And now we see that there's a huge difference because this is a different time, right? I myself purchased a home in this economy. And so I understand that. And so this is actually, even though it's an interesting thing because everything around it's been developed, and so we have this difference between what is proposed to go in now and what's surrounding it. And... But the value is the same. And so you have a similar socioeconomic status going into this project compared to what's around it, even though the size of the lots or the houses may not be exactly the same. They're similar, right? We're not talking townhomes. They are single-family homes, single-family dwellings. And so that does make it, I think it, I do see continuity there, even though I see a difference because this land is being developed years and years later. So it makes sense that everything's not gonna look exactly the same, but in order to keep it the same, value about the same value as what's surrounding it, it does make sense. Now, if you stick $675,000 homes in this pocket of Roy, I mean, could I afford a house like that? I wouldn't be looking in the middle of this subdivision. It feels out of place to me. I would be looking at newer neighborhoods where they're all that and it would make more sense and I feel like I would fit better. And so that's just, I think that that makes more sense to me is to match the home values of that surrounding it. I also Talking to Matt today, he reminded me of something that we dealt with in ULCT this year. And that is there was talk with one of the legislators talking about wanting to possibly take zoning away from cities. And so this is different than what is currently zoned for. However, it isn't townhomes. And it's not a for sure thing, but there's a real possibility that... we would have far fewer choices in the future, if any. And what they were saying is that it was a maximum of 5,000 square feet. Anything under that is total fair game. And if those were the conditions we were operating under right now, this meeting wouldn't happen. You would be able to put anything you wanted on it, and that could include townhomes, and I assume that could include apartments, because that's under 5,000 square feet. It could be literally anything.

It happened in Idaho.

Well, okay. I didn't know that. But I know there's rumblings of it here. And so where I see is this is not precisely what is zoned for. I do see it as a better option because it is closer to what's surrounding it than townhomes would be. And although townhomes and apartments have their place, I don't feel like that's a good fit for this area. But I do like to have the autonomy in this city to say this is what we want here. And so I feel confident in hearing the different experts speak about fire, about police, about the traffic engineers giving their piece. And I feel confident in what they have to say that I feel this is a safe project and I feel it is a wise project.

And I believe that it does offer something that our city needs and doesn't have, which I think is very important because the needs are different, the requirements that... young people are going, whether that means 20 or 30 or 40, you know, they're going through a lot of different challenges that we didn't have before. And they still, it was interesting to hear that they would like to have a new home. Not everyone wants to have to have the same problem, you know, the problems that somebody else is leaving. They'd like to have a new home and to be able to do that in that same price range and still have their own little piece of the world. And And it's been very interesting to hear people that are very tired of townhomes. They're very tired of living in townhomes, and they really just want their own little place, their own little piece. And this has given them that opportunity that they wouldn't have been able to have in any other way. And I appreciate you being willing to do that. And certainly, everyone needs to make a wage, and it's too bad that the cost of supplies and The building materials isn't less, but it isn't, and so thereby we have to alter it in a different way to make it somewhat attainable. So those are some of the comments and the input I've had from people. And some people that have lived in the Highgate Cove, and they are so tickled pink, they are so grateful for that opportunity. They have been very excited about it, and for something else, so someone else could have the same opportunity that they had.

Okay, you wanna talk, Brian? Okay.

First of all, I don't have a question, but I wanna make sure that my concerns are in the narrative. I've spoke to Mr. Brant on what, two different occasions?

At least, yeah.

And I've came across with the same opinion that whether it's 43 or 39, it is it is putting people elbow to elbow and i don't i don't begrudge him wanting to develop inner life because it's a great city but at 39 homes you are you are nearly putting 10 units per acre. 4.75 acres and 39 homes. And that is tight. I'll be able to watch TV by looking out the window at my neighbor. I'm telling you. And I know that the residents that lived there came, they turned out. And if we continue to ignore residents' wishes, my fear is we are going to lose a touch of credibility with citizens who want to speak up. So for that reason, before we vote, before a motion is made, I want the council to know that I'm not rescinding my vote. And my vote was initially a denial. Thanks.

In regards to that, Brian, you bring up a good point. Things are very tight, very close. I had an opportunity to do some building inspection tours. And boy, a lot of these complexes that are built up, that's exactly what's happening. You can see people's home. You can see that. But on the other hand, at least they have their own place. They can put their own stamp on that and I guess we have current residents but it'd also be nice to invite future residents too. I don't want to completely ignore our future residents with that and hopefully this would be a balance that we could hopefully and I appreciate your willingness to try to see the concerns on both sides of it, but I believe that we do have a duty to consider that as well, and so that's exactly where it fits in, I think Alexis sadly has a really good point. The governor and the legislature has already been threatening frequently the last several years that they will take zoning away from cities and they will take those opportunities and I would prefer to have a little more autonomy and be able to fit in some single family homes would be great. But that's my comment and response to some of those concerns.

So I realize that this is, you know, there's a lot of back and forth on this. And I don't think anybody's thrilled either way. But, you know, to Alexis's point, I would rather, you know, we come up with a solution tonight rather than we'll just deny it, stays afield for five years, the governor passes a motion, and then, you know, gets even tighter. I believe the one in Idaho is anything that's over four acres, you know, they can't turn down anything smaller than 1,500 square foot lots. which is, I don't know how you do a 1,500 square foot lot in the first place. So anyways, this is a development agreement, and there's give and take. You guys can propose what you think would make it work, and I've spoken to each of you, and you care about the community. You're in a tough spot. This is a tough piece of property, but If there was a way we could make something that you're happy with and that we can do something, I'd rather see that than see this, you know, just fail and, you know, back to square one for everybody. Is there anything that you can think that this is missing? Like you said, you know, I think Brian and Janelle, you both mentioned this, not quite what you're hoping for. We can only do so much, but we want to be a partner. I don't want to be the developer that comes five years from now, now that there's a new government or governor mandate and slamming in something you don't want. I'd rather be the developer that works with you guys and we figured out something that everybody's happy with or everybody is okay with. Sometimes that compromise is painful, a little on both sides, and that's, you know, sometimes a sign of, hey, we met in the right spot.

Any more comments, Janelle? Did you?

No, I just... I mean, I like the original zoning, so I don't think you want to go that low, so Earl Toad, you know, say that.

And like it says on this paper, you know, the original zoning, the best we could fit was 16 homes, and the side-by-side, you know, some of those things don't matter. The stormwater doesn't get solved because it can't get built. No taxes because it can't get built, you know, and so that's why...

And I recognize that, I mean, you're a business. We live in a country that we have capitalism, right? So if you can't make a pencil out, it just doesn't work. So it's not your fault. It's not our fault. It's just how it is. So I understand that.

Jason, did you want to say that?

I just have a comment. Looking at this as if I was on the Planning Commission, because I was not that long ago, this is something that I definitely would have approved back then, because my job as a Planning Commissioner was to look at the best and highest use of the land and to give the recommendation to the city based upon that and not have emotion involved with the decision. So, but... That being said, my vote's going to be against the current density that's being proposed at this time, just because now I have a different type of role being a city council member. And so I'm thinking about it differently from that aspect. So I appreciate the time that's been put into it and the effort. um in the information that everybody's been able to get out and I think that's a lot of solid a solid information and good decisions so I think it's a tough tough decision to make and um I wouldn't befall to anybody for making a different decision than me but for me I'm I'm not going to vote okay then can we have a motion to consider a development agreement

I move that we consider the reconsideration of the development agreement, Ordinance 26-4. But at that point, it would be to allow 39 single family units and not the 43 as mentioned here. And the other changes, I believe, can be done otherwise on that development agreement.

Do I have a second? Yes, I'll second. OK. Can we have a roll call vote?

Council Member Jackson? Aye. Council Member Spahr? Nay. Council Member Wilson? Aye.

Council Member Saxton?

Nay.

Council Member Hulbert?

Nay. Okay, so. Thank you guys. Thank you. Okay. So now we're consideration for ordinance 26-8. Is that Brody? OK.

Thank you. Again, Mayor, City Council. So Ordinance 26-8 is adding a definition for garage and yard sales. This actually came from staff. Originally, our code enforcement officer was receiving numerous complaints about garage sales or yard sales that seemingly did not end. in trying to address that situation with the property owner. Quite frankly, our code was insufficient to address that. Planning Commission took this up and is proposing new language which basically defines what a garage or a yard sale is. Planning Commission worked through that, held public hearings, and the Planning Commission recommended to follow the language that is submitted in the ordinance unanimously to the City Council. I'm sure you all have looked at it. Do you have any questions for me?

Council, do you have any questions?

I was wondering if when we do this if we could just add a reference to the sign ordinance as well within this amendment just because so when people go to look it up then they also know the sign ordinance so it's just like basically a link to that or to a reference to go look up the signage sign ordinance if that makes sense.

I think we could probably put a line in there that says your yard sale must comply with and then put the sign ordinance.

Yeah, yeah. So a simple change, but.

I guess as I've been struggling, go ahead, Jason. I've been kind of struggling with the concept of making a law to cover just a few people causing, maybe taking advantage of a situation and stuff like that. I find that that's difficult because generally we're looking to have hopefully less laws, not more laws. We're trying to allow a little more in that regard. I guess for me, actually, I do like the way it's written, if we're going to have a law. And I think for me, as I was trying to sort it out, I think maybe the key was that it is maybe more of a clarification of current... current law because we already have a you know business license law we have you know people can decide whether that's good or bad but it's there and so I think for me maybe that's where this comes in as maybe more of a clarification and if that's the case then I think that trying to be as respectful to those people that have not been maybe taking advantage of no no limitations at this time. And as we look at the way it's written, I'm thinking that if we can have three days at a time, which I think is very appropriate, very reasonable, that means it would be like a Friday, Saturday, Sunday most likely, then I think that we should change the days to be at least multiples of three. And as I was reading back through some of the comments, some of the comments were talking about having maybe a quarterly, giving people an option for a quarterly. And so if that were the case, we would want to change the days maybe to 12 days because that would, at three days a time, give them quarterly. And then I was also looking around and talking to people that go to yard sales in the summer. A lot of them, because it's so early, they like to get there early. And I don't know if maybe changing that from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. would be a problem. Those were a couple of the things that came up to me as I've been talking about this ordinance with people. And then, oh, as I looked through the, the notes in the app, it talked about the planning commission actually having a different When they actually approved it, they did talk about including the verbiage in point two of side and rear yards. And although in point two it talks about typically, which probably would be fine, I do think that would be nice to be consistent with what they had actually ended up as their recommendation and just add side and rear yards to point two. And so those were, I guess, three things that I thought about as I looked at that. I don't know if anyone else has had other ideas as they've looked at it.

I'm okay with the time change. I think that's fine.

I would be okay with an earlier time.

I was also thinking if it's 8 and you're doing weekends, then it's like leaving a day out. So yeah, I think 9 or 12 is probably fine. I don't know if I really have any preference either way, but...

As someone who loves yard sales, I will say you like to go early. But you get your best deals at the end.

They want to get rid of the stuff. Yeah, because you want to get rid of all your stuff. You can have it all for a dollar.

Yeah, I would be fine with the time change. I think that's appropriate. I'm not sure if I agree with the other ones, but I guess I'm a little confused about the... Can you show me what you were talking about?

Right, if we have eight days and you divide it by three, that means you could have two and a half large cells. Whereas if you put it, and in the past minutes, they were talking about trying to allow one per quarter. And so if we go to 12, then that allows one per quarter, which I think that's reasonable. And I don't know that... I think people may want to do one per quarter. I don't know that they'd want to do a lot more. And I just want to be really respectful for people that are utilizing this option, you know, respectfully already. I think the idea of this is more, the idea of this is really to keep it reasonable but still be respectful of those people who are, you know, following the intent, following the intent. And so that's where I thought it might be nice to just change that up.

Yeah, and I don't think that, I mean, I think you feel like once a quarter won't encumber anybody who's, you know, I don't know, utilizing it appropriately. I feel like that's probably a good number. It's more than my neighbor does. I don't personally, but I know how many she does. So I'm like, well, yeah, that should cover the person I know who does it at least. So I'm hoping that that's pretty general.

Yeah, I think that's reasonable. And then the other part was just including that side and rear, which was part of the...

Sorry, I did understand that.

Oh, okay.

So with all these changes, do we just table this and bring it back, or do we still pass it with all the changes? So we can do that? We can probably do that. Okay.

Yeah, so can we do the changes but also add the sign ordinance to it as well? Okay, thanks.

So do I have a motion for the ordinance 26S8?

I move that we adopt ordinance 26.8 with the following changes that we have a link to the sign ordinance that we include the side and rear yards as indicated in the Planning Commission

Councilmember, I apologize to interrupt. It might be easier to just say what the changes as discussed and we can refer back to the recording and type it in the program.

I'm sorry to clarify, I don't know if we normally link the things, but we reference it. So that's just a little change. Okay.

I mean, if we would need to refer back to the recording of the minutes or whatnot to write the motion, that's fine. But can we have at least with outside motion language, can we have a list of what the changes are? I just feel uncomfortable. There's been a lot of stuff said and a lot of different ideas. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page as to what it is that we're motioning.

So the summary the summary of things that have been discussed that I anticipate would be part of this would be the addition of side and rear yards under point two and that under four, it would change eight to 12, and then under point five, we would change 8 a.m. to 7 a.m., and that the last thing would be referencing the signed ordinance. Is that, I believe, what we discussed? So the four things. Four things.

Should be four, yeah. I feel better about knowing what those are, just in my brain. Okay, do I have a second? I'll second. Okay, we'll have a roll call vote.

Council Member Wilson? Aye.

Aye. Council Member Jackson?

Aye.

Council Member Holberg?

Aye.

Council Member Spahr?

Aye. Okay, thank you, Brody. Okay, now we'll go into our discussion items, and that'll be Council Member Spahr had the first one.

Okay, let me bring it up wherever I'm at.

You're up.

Yes, sir. okay this is a discussion item number one so after speaking with city staff about things that have been running not so smoothly for them in their job talking to our building inspector found out that the previous decision to get rid of the 500 penalty for building without a permit has become a problem mainly with we'll say subcontractors or contractors that are now typically starting to abuse the no penalty rule and seem to be more getting a permit out of, okay, I got caught instead of, because it's no big deal if they did get caught. There is no penalty assigned to it. And they just tell somebody, hey, go down and get the permit now. And so it's causing our city building inspector a lot more work and trouble trying to reinforce an ordinance that has no penalty applied to it for not doing it. So I know there was some previous discussion on the previous council why it was removed. So with this, I wanted to see if there was a way for us to be able to re-bring this penalty back in, but establish a clear legal mechanism such as a first-time waiver or warning system or distinction between commercial contractors and owner-occupied residential projects to ensure that everyday Roy citizens who make an honest mistake are not unfairly burdened. And so that's kind of where we're at with that. If anybody wants to.

Yeah, so I do like the idea of giving, I don't know if we want to call it a warning or educational. something I don't know the best wording but I do like that idea of doing that and then I think if we're because I think you propose 500 right dollars and so I think if we change that to up to 500 then it gives a little bit of leeway of depending on you know I guess the old saying of punishment fits the crime so I don't know if that applies directly here but um So I do like that. I do think that, you know, it's not fair for taxpayers to have to pay for someone else that's willfully not following the laws if that makes sense.

That's what's unfortunate about it is because it's up to the, ultimately the property owner is the one that's liable for the building permit. And if the subcontractor and contractor doesn't get one, Unfortunately, it still lies to the homeowner to do it, and it's unfortunate that it happens that way. When they hire somebody, it's like when you have a medical procedure done and you're the one supposed to be submitting your insurance, but the offices do it for us, the medical, they do it for us. So to me, I think that should be an assumption that everybody would make, and I'd be upset if I hired a contractor and find out that I'm responsible for the... for their mistake in not doing the permit. And so it's unfortunate that the law states it that way. So I don't think that there's a way to get around that part of that law. But this will make it to where some subjective viewpoint could be put into it for a resident versus a contractor that's constantly being a problem and repeat offender kind of a thing.

So what was the original penalty was 500?

The original penalty was 500 for anybody. Yeah. And when I just, when I asked the building inspector about it, about maybe doing the lower two or three, and she said it doesn't really have the teeth for a contractor at that lower amount that it needed to be enough to be what would hurt a contractor enough to where they would

stop right not getting it is there a possibility of us getting that previous ordinance we probably have copies of that or could find that maybe so we could actually look at what that is and then some of the questions i had asked um and i believe we're probably getting this would is be to maybe get a list of infractions and a list of repeat offenders And then maybe numbers of how many infractions have been over the last, you know, maybe one to three years. So those, I think, would be helpful for us to make an idea or more educated decision on those sorts of things. Great. If we could do that.

And then get legal's perspective as well about what wording can do.

Well, I'm interested if legal has a perspective on, can you put something like a warning system in a legal thing? Or is it just, I don't know.

So our building inspector would have discretion just as, you know, officers. But, I mean, we could. I would just say, I mean, maybe Mr. Flint has some different opinion here. But generally you'll do, like, a first offense as a warning, and then you can put in there the $500 fine. Okay. Okay.

So that is a policy decision. You certainly could do that. I would caution you in the instances that this is needed, that would be very ineffective. I spoke with Councilmember Wilson about this, and I did speak with our code enforcement officers to talk about numbers, and it's really hard to track numbers on something that was taken away. So we don't say, well, I'm tracking, I would cite this people, but we don't have that authority. But in speaking with Gail, excuse me, She kind of estimated that this probably would have been used maybe 10 times in the last 30 months.

33 months.

10 times in the last 30 months. 30 months. So we're talking maybe four times a year, five times a year. And it really is instances of intentional disregard for the permitting process because there is no penalty.

So you say it would have been used. That doesn't necessarily mean that's how many infractions there were. That's just how many times that she felt it would be appropriate to impose this penalty.

Correct. Because 90-whatever percent of the time, when you talk with an individual on this situation, they're like, hey, you really should have a building permit. They're like, oh, I didn't know. They run in and get it, and the inspection's done and completed. This comes up in educated persons. Like, for instance, I'll put myself up there. If I was building in Roy... I would not get a permit. I would have my contractor buddies who hit nails with their hand do it. And if Gail came, I'd tell her to go away and get off my property because there's absolutely nothing that Roy City can do, right?

So I wonder if there's any danger as I'm looking at this I'm like is there any concern with having that warning as a first step like versus just giving someone discretion like we see laws where it's like the penalty for this is maximum of a thousand dollars fine and six months in jail but someone must have discretion as to decide who and I don't know how that works in the legal system but obviously there are laws that are written that way. That's

And that is how it works. And I wish I could give you a better answer, but then that is a policy discussion. If you guys as a council think that that's a good idea, you can. If you want me to opine on whether that's a good idea, I'm happy to, but not necessary. It's totally how you want to do it. The hard part is, and this is not just for this instance, right? You can't codify every situation. Right? You just can't. So again, I go back to me being the mean person that I am. Would you want Gail to have to give me a warning? I don't know. That's up to you guys. That's your policy decision.

Well, I think that most citizens don't even know you need to have a building permit. I mean, my husband turned our carport into a garage. He didn't get a building permit. I mean, that was 1991. So far, it hasn't fallen down. But I just feel that, you know, we're talking about replacing the hot water heater. We're talking about, you know, adding on a shed. I remember driving with Steve Parkinson's He'd go, that's against code, that's against code. All these people added all these sheds and things on the side of their house right next to their neighbor's fence, and I'm sure they didn't even think anything of it. Unless their neighbor complains, that's probably the only way people get caught or get fined. i just feel that unless somebody has a friend do something to their house electrical or plumbing and they really just kind of watched it off youtube and then it didn't work and then their insurance won't pay for it because they didn't have a contractor and didn't have a building license

And I can give one example that Gail brought up about why this would be beneficial. There was a couple who hired a contractor to build a deck. Contractor built the deck, left. They asked Gail, hey, I don't think the contractor built my deck right. What can you do? And she was like, I don't have any record that the deck was built. When was this built? And they're like, oh, we got done like two weeks ago. And she went up and the deck literally had about a six to 12 inches of play side to side. And she was like, yeah, you can't be on this deck. And they had to go and get another contractor who got a building permit, built the deck correctly. It cost them an additional about eight to $10,000, I think she said. When we went to go look at the contractor, he had multiple doppel violations as very problematic and actually had switched states and essentially there's not a lot of recourse. So that is like the instance of where this is beneficial to the city.

Right.

So that is my question. So because it goes on the owner, ultimately, the warning could go to the owner and they could say, my contractor's not doing that. So they can fire their contractor at that point if they really wanted.

So there's a couple of different ways. And ultimately, right, it is your property. We talked about this briefly last time. There's some pretty good attorneys in Royce City. And if you're asking me as the community economic development director how we would like it, ultimately it is the homeowners. But I believe city staff should have the ability to cite a contractor specifically and not have it go to the homeowner. And that's a pretty easy draft. Again, I know Mr. Wilson could do that. That would be my recommendation because, like I said, this is designed for the bad actors. You know, I know last time Mayor Dandoye and I got into some discussions about this, not in the meeting, but he was like, well, you're just going to go around and fine everybody who doesn't get a hot water permit. And I was like, well, one, practically that's just impossible, right? Like we don't do proactive anything as far as code enforcement because we don't have the staff and the budget. um so that's not going to happen and two if that was happening with an employee then the administrative staff and the supervisors over that employee would change that behavior you know it's the same way like i don't think officer curl and his people that he supervise gives that many tickets for 27 or 26 and a 25. they certainly could i don't think it happens i've never seen one in all my years of prosecuting when i used to do that It's the same principle right of There is discretion to to do that but however I think if we are if the council does want us to work on that we would try and draft a provision that had essentially what I would call split liability to be able to put that directly on a contractor or a subcontractor or the homeowner and have that ability because ultimately it is the homeowners responsibility, but like I said, we have no interest in chasing down people who don't know. Now, Mayor Jackson, if your husband had built eight carports for you and your friends, then it might be a different issue, right? Right. So that's the distinction.

So would such a draft still still contain language for citations of residents who are repeat offenders and i don't know if that's happening so often but obviously the biggest problem is the commercial um developers but or sorry commercial contractors but if you just have a homeowner who keeps oh i didn't know i didn't know like you didn't know like at some point like stop

Yeah, I think quite frankly, just to be lawful and as a kind of a general principle of law that you are the owner of your home and the responsibility of your home, I think the draft would have to include language that included homeowners. And then again, it goes back to A policy decision is do you write in warnings or do you say well?

We hire these people to have discretion and things appropriately right and and it was actually fortunate I would happen to be at the city building when I'm councilmember Wilson was going on a ride along with Gail and so she invited me along because I happened to be there and that was really helpful and I Observed her in her work, and I was really impressed with her She is She was very, she was just compassionate. She was wanting to talk to people about their projects and things. And she was, everything she did, education first. And so that's really her approach. And I think, I mean, I really feel comfortable with that. And I feel like that's not going to get abused. And like you said, if it did, you know, then their superiors would hear about it.

And to be honest, there are cities that that is an issue. To be frank, I think as a practical matter, that's not going to be an issue in Roy. Furthermore, why you have supervisors and administrations that that are here, that will not be an issue. I think the conduct of the employee would be changed before that became an issue if we were, what a trigger happy with the citation.

And if it really did become an issue, is this not just legislation you could fix, right? So if it really is a problem, then council can just change it. But I don't know that I would love to write in a warning system at first. I think that kind of is a little, I don't know.

I think the reason I was more for warning is just for owners. Well, sure. So if we can split that and split the liability, then maybe that's not as big of a deal. I don't know how we – maybe that's something we have to talk about and figure out. But, I mean, since Jason's, you know, in charge of this one, he can help figure that out.

I'm just bringing up what the problem was. I don't claim this one as my baby or anything like that. So anybody's welcome to continue with this.

Yeah, because I do think holding the contractor's libel is the strongest teeth you can give to it. And to have a little bit more, like for the homeowner, a lot of homeowners don't know. But it does, but on the other side of that, I also want to point out, this is something I did not realize, but I've job shadowed Gail a couple times and trying to go through the whole process of what she does. And something that her and your the rest of the people in your office have kind of talked about is they get phone calls from insurance companies all the time when something goes when a person makes a claim on something happens in their house the insurance company calls the city to see if it was inspected and put in properly and if it's not you're probably not going to get it covered and so we're really helping protect homeowners as well when we do ask them to do these things. And that's a lot of, I mean, when the law is made, that's probably why the insurance company gets to do that, because it's a law. So anyway, so that's another thing for people to think about. And yeah, if I'm a homeowner, I have a fire, flood, whatever, I'm going to be really grateful that I got the right inspection so that my insurance will cover it if something happens. So yeah, anyway.

But with the cost of everything, I think that's why more people are trying to do it all on their own, because you can figure out how to do anything if you watch YouTube, and that's what people do. But they don't realize if the insurance wouldn't cover if they did it. So is this something we need to?

Yeah, we need to give some direction on what you want to see. Obviously, I can't make any decisions today, but kind of give a direction on what we should work on as staff.

Okay. I wanted to commend, agree with Alexis and commend Gail's approach. I guess I'm a little concerned to make a policy that depends on someone in that position being as good to work with and education promoting as her I'd like to maybe make sure we have a little bit of leeway whether that's not a warning or whether it is the you know the discretion that you're talking about so as that's being done I you know whether it's the warning sounds like you know maybe plus or minus on that maybe a template that would allow anyone in that position to be able to still treat our residents the way we're hoping to as we develop this I guess is what I'm thinking

I think that's good, but I don't know that that's a good reason to require them to give a warning. I mean, we also don't want to take discretion away from her to say, I don't know if something blows up, not literally blows up, but like if there's a situation that's, you know, that's gone a little out of control, like that she's going to need the authority to enforce this if she needs to or whoever else is in that position. And so I mean, but. laws are not always written that specifically to say, well, you're going to do this and then this and then this. There's the four or five step process between warnings and then this, this, this. But we even see that in like code enforcement when we went and talked to Brock, like he does the same kind of thing. He's got warnings that he goes through and everything. And I, I, I don't know, I would, because I see laws like that, like there is discretion up to, you know, judges or whomever that they can decide what type of penalty and how much to impose and it's up to them and that is the way things are written and they're not written so specifically and there's reason for that. And I think because if you do that, you do tie her hands a little bit and say, okay, well now you have to do it this way and she may not get the authority she needs in a different situation.

No, I think you just confirmed exactly what I requested, that we do have ability for discretion in however that's written, whether that is, you know, if that's written as an opportunity for a warning or not. Because I believe that there's a really high percentage of people that have no idea that they need to get these permits. And education really is the number one focus I think we should have in those situations. And then, you know, as has been already mentioned, The culprits, those are the ones that we need to definitely try to address in a more forceful or more specific way.

So I guess I would, if it was me, I would say to see something written with language that provides for a warning or whatever, but doesn't require. And I don't know if that's like too vague that you don't write that way. I don't know. Or is that weird to, legally, how does that look? Is that a normal way to have things written? Okay.

So is the only person that can find these projects is Brody? I mean, is he the only one, like, he's driving around and sees something being added onto a house or built?

So generally this would come from Gail, the building inspector?

And so does she, like, drive around all the time just checking out the city and looking? I mean, I just didn't know how people would get caught if they get it done before they get caught.

It's from calls. That's the only way. Like a neighbor or somebody. Or like the deck example. They called the city and were frustrated with this person they hired, and they said, what do I do? So then Gail went out and looked at it and addressed the situation. It's the same thing, right? Neighbor calls and says...

you know matt's building a shed right next to my fence i don't like it is this lawful that's how this comes about there's no like i said there's no proactive well but she does see things sometimes when she's going around i mean the same with brock sometimes when he sees something he'll when he's going between different things and i mean she is out in the city a lot so she does see a lot as well so

Well, that example is clear. Last year, I missed that council meeting where all the citizens came to rally around that home that was not built by a legal contractor. And yeah, that was Remember all that? I don't even know what ever happened with that house. But I think that citizens nowadays, you know, too, you look on the internet and you don't know for sure what's true when you look up a contractor because anything can be made up, a license or anything.

So I just think people need to

do their homework and talk to neighbors.

So I would just ask, from the conversation, I know there's three or four, you want us to bring something back, kind of with the instructions you've given? Yes.

And if you would do it and have the old, the one that was original before now, so we can look at that comparison, you know, whether or not you take that one and make the changes to that, or you have two separate ones so we could look at it, I'd appreciate that. Okay.

And we'll go on to discussion two, and Jason, that is for you also. Awesome.

okay well i'm going to make this introduction short too because it's it's in the packet you can read about it this is kind of starting back up the conversation we had many many many months ago about our community commission method with the residents because i don't remember the exact deal that the standard examiner had given

It was for postage. They would do it, and we would just pay for postage. They would cover all the other expenses. They would get the advertisement. They would try to focus their advertisement in Roy to try to increase the buy local, you know, that kind of concept.

Okay, Diane, thank you. So, in the looking at what we... When I was looking back into this one again, there was a few other products out there that were digital and kind of a combination that you could do different things with. And I was doing my own research and found Civic Plus and looked into that, and there was different tiers and pricing upon different things about what was included. And after later, I found out that we are actually using some of Civic Plus's stuff already as it is. We're just not paying for any of the other tiers of services. So there's a couple other different businesses out there that offered the same type of stuff. But when I looked at it, it all said, call us for a quote. kind of a thing so for me that sounded more of a a mat kind of a job to maybe get quotes on that so that's where my research stopped right there so i just wanted to see about getting more options and pricing so that we can all look at it together to see what what might work best for everybody I WOULDN'T WANT TO JUST MAKE DIGITAL THE WHOLE EVERYTHING BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WANT A PAPER NEWSLETTER TO BE MAILED TO THEM OR SOME TYPE OF NEWSLETTER. BUT I WANTED TO SEE EVERYTHING OUT IN THE OPEN, THE COSTS, WHAT ALL OF THIS MIGHT DO. IF THERE'S A WAY WE CAN SAVE MONEY BY GOING DIGITAL, THEN I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT.

ANY COMMENTS? IT LOOKED LIKE, BRIAN, WERE YOU GOING TO SAY SOMETHING?

I believe the cost to the city with the standard deal was about $31,000 a year. If I'm I think that was, and that's the reason why we kind of backed away from it in that meeting we had with them because we weren't certain if what Roy knews would be in order to fill that space they were giving us. but it would be costly. And so I think last time I looked, the standard had 47,000 followers online. And so I'm wondering what percentage of those would be our residents and would we be overpaying that's all i that's but if we want to look at it again i'm out for saving money but i i don't know that they they're offering us any sweeter deal i think postage is probably as sweet as you're going to get so postage only from everything you know i've investigated and checked into i don't think we'd get it any better than postage

Yeah, but that was for just Roy residents. Correct. To every Roy resident. But I think I would love for this to move forward and get more information, like you said, Jason.

Just put it in a work session, possibly.

Yeah, and I think a work session, though, not in a meeting.

Right. That's kind of where I would want to go with this anyways. Yeah. Have a work session and possibly be able to direct staff to get us some quotes on some of those items.

Well, and just look at all the different options because I think there's so many ways to communicate now, but we've touched just a little bit of it.

Some of the options that Civics Plus talked about when I read about it, it sounded really nice because, like, if there's a water main break, they can just highlight an area around that and it sends back. kind of like a reverse 911, but it sends out, every resident can sign up individually for whatever they want, whether it's a text message, an email, or a phone call, whatever type of thing they want to be notified with. They can do reverse notification and everybody in just that specific area can be notified by whatever method they choose to be notified with of the there's a water main break in their area or different things like that or any kind of notices. And then the other thing that I liked about digital is that when you print something, it's out there. you need to make a change to a time or a date of a meeting that's on a printed paper it's difficult to get that rescinded and to put out another paper to fix that or if there's typos because we've had that before in flyers where some meeting dates were two different dates on the same flyer unfortunately and so that's the only one of the only things that i don't like about print is it's just slow to fix things that that come out but i still think we need that for the residents that that are 100% paper, and that's what they prefer.

And they don't have computers, and they don't know how to look at a cell.

They do need that option. I don't want to take that away 100%.

I mean, I still take the paper and read it. And then I tell my kids something, they're like, Mom, I already saw that online. that's all names but most my family does the standard online so but i do have neighbors that have the physical paper also and they when we used to get you know the newsletter through the city well the connection magazine when it used to be current when we used to get it I mean my 80 year old neighbor would circle everything you know and had it but that I just you know that was just too expensive and then it was outdated by the time we got it so that failed but it was really worked good for a few years it was really good but so there's pros and cons about both so

Councilmember Wilson, when you brought information about the standard kind of bid or the offer that you had seen, you had information about Ogden City and how they did it?

Yes. I spoke with Mayor Nadolsky.

You did? What do they do digitally?

And I don't know about the digital.

I'm interested to know just how their city, they have the printed, I assume that's not all they do. I assume they also have a presence online or something to subscribe to electronically.

I'm just aware that they do have something online, but I don't know how it gets distributed. But I do know that he felt that it was a game changer for their city. And he mailed that like over, I think he said 69,000.

newsletters and he said it's been wonderful for their city yeah at the time i i did look at what other cities did and i mean it's kind of all over the place like lots of cities do different things so i mean that's another thing we can look at as other things and i think that's why work session would be better because then we each can individually bring information that we've gained in addition to what we've asked the yeah staff to do so do we need a timeline though for that so we know like if we're going to do a work session do you guys need a timeline kind of from us or what do you yeah not necessarily but yeah just scheduling the work session and when yeah we can schedule one if anybody everybody's up amenable to our work session um

Well, in like Ogden City, there were 100,000. We're 30, what, 39,000. Most cities are... five, six, 7,000, some are 9,000. So it's a whole different, I mean, it's kind of hard to compare what a city of 7,000 does to a city of 39,000, so.

I'm just curious, those that do print, like what does their, I don't know, if they choose print, because I'm sure there are cities that don't do print and they're just online, just strictly online. So what are the ones that choose print? Like, I don't know, like what other decisions are they making for electronic dissemination of information, but.

So do we want to aim for end of October began November or that gives them about, well, I guess that's almost two months. I'm thinking, I don't remember what month I'm in right now. Cause it just changed. Um, so maybe just sometime in October aim for that to give you guys like a month to gather that information. And then we can pick a date soon. I'm gonna have to look at my schedule in detail before that.

Matt can send out an email with a few dates on it and we can figure something out. Okay so then now Councilmember Saxton is going to talk about engine breaks.

I'll just, I'll read what we've prepared. What I need, though, is I need some input on this because the game has changed a little, and so here goes. The use of jake brakes on 5600 south, coincides with the increasing of the traffic volume, which is because the project is, as you know, Fully encompassing, it was a $265 million road improvement. And the people that are concerned with the noise are those that live kind of in that quadrant of the city. if that makes sense. And while the city can prohibit the use of the brake through a noise ordinance, it's also understood this may create additional public safety concerns and enforcement of such regulations. The discussion comes forward as a result of inquiries from residents and is primarily for the council to discuss to see if an updated noise ordinance should be developed. So I'm just, I'm fulfilling the word that I gave them that I bring this to you. I know it can be noisy, but if it prevents a semi from rolling over another car, then we've done our job.

Well, right. So I don't know if the council understands. You're talking about Jake brakes. Right. Right.

And they're allowed.

Yeah. And they're for just large vehicles. Right. I mean. That's right. Right. I mean, back in the 70s, my husband was driving his cement truck down 5600. And this little old lady went out to pick up a can because she collects cans. And he definitely had to use his Jake brake. And it was my mother he almost hit. And so it. and that's when the speed limit was 35 so now it's 45 and and so that means they're probably going over 45 and so it is a safety concern um and it is a good thing to have jake brakes and so are we seeing that more large vehicles are they been using them a lot then so is that what the residents are saying that jake brakes are being used they're hearing them but you've just

You know what I mean? You've added a lane in each direction. And you've got a lot of, I'm sure you've got a lot of semis that go up in that road because you've got so much commercial now out west. And you've got the steep incline. I mean, my brother was a truck driver. That's how he made a living. He was a long hauler. And I went with him on a couple of times. And yes, a couple of times he had to use his Jake brake. And if you think it's loud outside of the truck, you ought to be sitting in the cab of a truck and hear that thing. But if there's something we can do, You know, it falls onto us, even though it's a state road. It's our concern. And the state's not gonna do anything until, right? Until they hear from us. So, help. Right.

So what way are you leaning, Brian?

Well, I'm always for peace in the valley, but... I don't know if, I mean, the volume of traffic using that road is only going to increase. So do we, I don't want to put public safety in a position where they've got to enforce something that is going to be difficult to enforce, but you guys have seen signs in other cities that say noise ordinance has been passed. I haven't had the time to contact those cities, so I'm leaning towards any kind of input from you. I think we've went the current standard for what, three or four years, Matt?

Well, the last time we addressed it in the city council, I think it was back in 2021, and we got it to the stage of a resolution or an ordinance to adopt, and there was no motion made in that meeting to adopt that ordinance. So it stayed the same.

So can you ever do, like, have an assigned word, like, just between, like, after 9 o'clock at night or something like that? Or it would have to be just all or nothing?

we did we did address that with udot last time that question did come up and no it's not because back then unless things have changed since 2021 but yeah so how many i could re-ask that question sorry how many residents have are concerned about this like that you've heard i don't know but the one that voiced the concern

But again, public safety, I'd hate for somebody to, and especially where 2700 West has so many people now that cross that street.

Right, and kids on e-bikes and headphones and not paying attention or on their phone. Yeah, it's just a whole different world.

No, it is. And you've driven... that you've seen all the modifications to the road, you know it's faster and wider. So I was just looking for any kind of input. If you want me to, I can check with other cities, but other cities are not gonna have 5,600 south. I mean, I'm a realist.

I mean, if you were going to check in other cities, maybe find some with roads that are similar, like with that hill, and maybe a similar, I don't know, maybe that's a lot of, I'm trying to figure out what streets are in what cities, but I mean, you could maybe compare similar situations.

I keep thinking, and I'm just guessing, I keep thinking Clearfield has... a jake brake or a noise ordinance addressing engine compression jakes or brakes. And that's what causes the noise is the engine. That's why it's almost like a growl.

Yeah, I've heard it.

OK, so we do have, when we're in discussion items, can we ask questions of staff, like the heads of departments? Is that OK? OK, so from a police perspective, how easy or hard would that be to even enforce?

It probably wouldn't get enforced. To be honest, it would be, we'd have to be there. We'd have to see it. We would get complaints of, it happened. 15 minutes ago, or people are doing it all the time, so we would go sit down there, and in the event a truck and trailer came over the bridge, in all honesty, they're probably not using it there. They're probably not using a Jake brake. If we were to look at the North Ogden Divide, you're coming down the Divide, you're heavy on your brakes, you need to use a Jake brake coming down that to save your brakes, so when you have to come to a stop at 1050 East, you can actually come to a stop. I don't think... that they're having to do that in a one to two mile stretch coming down 5600 south. So I don't think it's actually an issue that we have seen, that we have had to deal with really to any significant degree.

Well, and I feel that if you pulled somebody over for using it, he can say, well, a kid just ran out in front of me on a bike or something, so if I wouldn't have used it, I might have hit him. So it's just kind of a hard thing to enforce. Yeah, it would be. But, yeah.

Thanks. Well, okay. I'm supposed to be a wordsmith. I'll figure this out.

Okay. Okay, now we'll go to the city manager report.

Yeah, I just have a couple of things. I did mention this before, but it's just kind of a save the date. My hometown for September 19th. Be sure to have that on your schedule. Great day for Royce City. Also, another great day is September 8th. We're going to be reopening the complex. It's been closed down for a couple weeks for the annual cleaning. However, the Aquatic Center only has two days left, so Saturday, September 5th, and Monday, September 7th. And then after that, it's closed for the season. That's it.

OK. And I just wanted, since we haven't had only council meeting we've had since Roy Day's was Truth in Taxation, and I just wanted to thank Michelle and Brandon and everybody that worked on Roy Day's. Other than it was really hot. But they had misters and everything. I don't think we had any emergency people hauled off did we, Mike, from heat exhaustion. There wasn't as many cars at the car show because I think they're all like, yeah.

Well, there was another car show at the same. Well, yeah, I think there's three car shows that day. They can't do it on my days.

But I heard nothing but positive comments about the parade and the fireworks. Thank, you know, Mike Schultz and Melissa Foundations because that was a half hour long of some of the best fireworks and no incidents there. And for all those who donated to help cover the police that night, I don't think we had any major incidents, did we, Sergeant Curl? So... Wannabe.

Yes. I was at that park. You guys did a great job.

Right.

Yes, you did very, very well. I was very impressed with how they handled that.

Yeah, but anyway, I just wanted to tell everybody thank you for another wonderful Roy Days. At least it didn't rain, so I guess heat's better. It was a beautiful night, the night of the fireworks.

But I do want them to bring the misters back every year. That was amazing. I stood under those a lot. And then also, I also heard lots of stuff about the parade, how well it was. Hardly any gaps this year. And I just, lots of people commented on that.

And I'm grateful we can still throw candy because my grandkids wouldn't have came. And so... It's just, you know, the way you've done it safely now to where, you know, they're over on the sides and we haven't had any incidents. And I think, you know, it's been, and I know you've put a lot of planning and effort into it, Michelle, and you're the leader of the pack when it comes to the Roy Days. So thank you very much, so.

Good candy.

Yeah.

I'd like to add to that in a second. There will be a subject coming from me a little bit later about possibly making some more money for Roy Days by instituting a beer garden.

so i'm hoping to maybe bring that up to beer garden a beer garden right and so then we'll have to get more money for more police so we're always looking we're going to start because we're talking about venue changes bringing back salmon bake more sponsors we want to you know try to make everything better than it was this year. And I mean, I've lived in Royce since 1959. I don't remember Roy Days ever being rained out. And so that's always a good time of year to have Roy Days, but this was a hot one though, so. So any other comments, council? So can I have a motion then to adjourn?

I motion to adjourn.

Can I have a second?

So moved.

And all in favor say aye. Aye. OK. And then we'll go into our day meeting like in 10 minutes. Everybody take a break.

I can avoid that one. All right. Especially watching the show. you're willing.

OK, we're going to go ahead and start our RDA meeting. September 1, 2026. I'd like to welcome Council Member Spahr, Council Member Saxton, Board Member, I mean, Board Member Spahr, Board Member Saxton, Board Member Jackson, Board Member Wilson, and Board Member Holbert. We have a consent item of the June 16th, that's been a while, 2026 RDA minutes. Do I have motion to approve those?

A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM JUNE 16, 2026. DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. WE HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. KEVIN, ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY?

My name is Kevin Homer. I live here in Roy. For most of you, except for maybe Mr. Saxton, you haven't heard my thoughts on the RDA process. For a lot of reasons, and these are my personal opinions and my personal principles that I will share with you, and maybe at some point after you review your own, maybe we can have further discussion about this. For me, I know that the state of Utah, about nine or 10 years ago, created the ability for municipalities to have an RDA committee and establish an RDA fund. For me, I don't believe that sanction from the state of Utah should ever be used. Basically, it creates within this city a competition for banks, and a competition for venture capitalists where they would be able to have the money to distribute, to encourage businesses to come here in Roy City. Don't get me wrong, I do want more businesses coming to Roy. We've got many, many years and many decades of very weak encouragement to have businesses come here. And I'm glad that we've got people that have some interest in that now, not just, let's see, you're not a council, you're a board, thank you. You change roles, you change hats. But this board, and I know with our business development director, we've got a lot of people that want to bring businesses here to Roy. But my concern is anytime that a government entity takes over running a business, and we have a couple of instances of that here in Royce City, and you'll hear a little bit more from me about my concerns about this. For this board to act as a bank or a venture capitalist and decide who gets money and who does not, for me, that oversteps a line where whenever a central government is running businesses, That's Marxist and socialist behavior, and I'm sorry for putting that label. It's a pretty heavy one, but in my opinion and with my principles, these are really big concerns on my part. If it were up to me, I would suggest take the entire RDA fund and refund it back to the citizens because we have taken, the city has taken from them from the citizenry, property and sales taxes, to fund that in the first place, dissolve that, and then put all of our efforts into making this city a more freedom-loving city where we have lower property taxes, low, oh, bing. Okay, thank you all very much. And maybe you'll hear a little bit more from me in the future.

Okay, thank you, Kevin.

Okay, any other comments? Glenda, Randy?

Okay, then we'll go out of our public comment period and then we'll go into our discussion item, the Roy Economic Study Proposal. Brody, I assume.

Thank you. Board members, good evening. OK, so tonight is a discussion about a potential economic study and action plan. This has been kind of a long time coming. We've had different versions of this, some discussions about it and the necessity of it. And a little bit of back story as to how this came on. We've had certain studies done, talked about doing plans. We recently had a developer who was attempting to start what I would call a major project. They worked with city staff for multiple months, three, four months, and ultimately they backed out for a variety of reasons, none of which is under our control. But one of the things that they kept saying was like, well, what is the city's vision? What are you looking for specifically on 1900 West? We've all talked about that being a main street, something that we could improve the usage of. And now with 5600 in the completion, you know, there's some things to do in that area. We have constantly, I mean, I have multiple people a week with ideas or thoughts that want to talk to me about things. There's some people kind of going, But the reality is this, is we've had certain studies done, but right now, given that we haven't had any updated or recent studies, specifically traffic capacity analysis, best use of property along 1900 West, our hotel feasibility study, and just kind of a general business and marketing idea for that area. We're really kind of behind the eight ball when I have these discussions with developers, and the reason I say that is we have a hotel feasibility study, and that was done in 2017, maybe even before that. Anyway, just to be frank, it's really of very little value. When you talk to any experts, there is really shifting Basically, anything pre-COVID is not of much value in this type of discussion. The markets changes, interest rates, market demands on capital, what we're seeing across Utah with mixed use developments, houses, the type of housing. Really, we're just kind of behind the eight ball in what we're thinking for that area and what we think we want and what is possible and what is viable and what's even worth our time, effort and energy pursue. So with that, we talked a little bit about presenting this to the board. What I did is I reached out to individuals that we've used in the past for different RDA financing issues, bonding issues, individuals that we trust. They actually kind of partner with the individual that I'll introduce right now. And they kind of recommended him to kind of put this proposal together. So this is Kirby Snydman. And he put this proposal together. And really what I told Kirby is, And I think you all have been around me enough to know that this is what I said is I don't really want fluffy stuff with cute pictures. I would actually like some analysis of what's realistic. Sometimes we get into these discussions and like, well, me as the expert, I want da, da, da, da, da, da, da. when that's just not a reality for all the factors that we don't know about. And so that was kind of the basis of this. I told Kirby we wanted updated real data numbers and things that could be useful and beneficial as we look at planning, thoughts for that area, how we move forward, and really discussions with developers. If someone comes in and says, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z, but we have some information that says, If you did X, Y, and Z, we're gonna have to widen 1900 again, right? Or that's just an example. So Kirby put this presentation together. He's here, he has a presentation. If you would like him to go through it, we could just have some discussion, questions. I put a little memo together kind of breaking down his presentation and kind of my analysis of What is kind of an immediate need, and maybe what we don't have to do, or what I would absolutely kind of really want to see done. And then do we want to go forward and formalize it and have more plans and and kind of integrate it. We can be as as flexible or as harsh as you guys want in this discussion and kind of move forward. So one, I'm here to answer questions. Kirby's here to talk about the proposal that he put together and the ideas behind it. And we can answer any questions and hopefully get some direction on what you guys want to see and done. So with that, is there questions for me? Do you guys want to just have Kirby present kind of his proposal to you?

I guess one question I should have asked earlier but didn't is how many companies do you have to have bid for this or do we have to do that? Does that mean we can just look at this and accept this or?

Yeah, so we don't, there's no requirement with the RDA that we, you know, get bids for three different companies or anything like that. The RDA is a little different. We would trust people that we've used and have relationships with for this. If you as the board think that we should open it up to outside vendors, we absolutely could put an RFP out there and let Kirby compete with anyone else. And then we would just weigh those factors in the proposals that were submitted. But there's no requirement to do that.

Thank you. So we're gonna have the proposal and then we jump in with our questions or?

However you want.

Okay, let's hear from Kirby.

Hello. Hello. RDA board.

Like your polo by the way.

Thank you, my name's Kirby Snydman with Place Builders. I did prepare a presentation. It's just really some slides from the proposal I put together. So if you've taken a look at the proposal, I can answer questions for you or I can give you a brief overview. What would you like?

Will you just speak up just a tiny bit more so we can hear better? Yes, is this better? I moved it a little closer. That was very helpful, thanks.

Let me share a little bit just to give you a quick overview of what I see this is. If you see, it's called the Roy Economic Study and Plan. Study is phase one. It's the first three tasks. And the plan is the last three. I've done transportation planning and economic development projects all over the state of Utah. I did one very recently that is very similar. We looked at the North Temple Corridor in West Salt Lake City. And they have a similar challenge, a lot of small lot, older retail with competing interests, but maybe not what the city was looking for, not what the residents in the community was looking for and a little concerned about the big developments that were coming in. And what the RDA and Economic Development Department in Salt Lake City wanted to know is if we're going to spend money on this corridor, where do we get our best bang for our buck? Because in the past what we did is just subsidize developments that would come in. We would incentivize them. But that's not working for us. We want to do something different. We want to especially support the smaller businesses that already exist on the corridor. So I think what's really exciting about this study for me is that You know, it's really a lot of RDAs take that first approach where they say, oh, okay, what big development can we get? If you're interested in coming here, we'll make it a little cheaper. Maybe we can do a land deal with you. A smaller percentage of RDAs like Salt Lake City and Ogden and a few others in the state take a different approach where they say, well, let's go proactively spend this money to change how the corridor looks and feels or the central business district that they're working with. And you've already done a little bit of that, and your example of that is the light poles that you did and the treatments for the city, and I understand that was in conjunction with UDOT in that project. That's some of what you could do, but there's... Several different areas and what we would look at in this study is is looking at transportation, looking at the planning of the area, looking at the code requirements, looking if there's some barrier there that's not allowing you to get the type of development that you want. The other thing we'd look at specifically, for example, like the hotel feasibility study. You can bet that the companies that are willing to make tens of millions of dollars worth of investment, they have numbers of where they want to locate. When they come to you, they're not going to show that information to you as proprietary. So having a feasibility study so that you understand as a board what's feasible allows you to be a better negotiator. So if they come to you and say, oh, you know, we're thinking about doing a hotel in the area. And well, we could go to Ogden or we could go down to Clearfield. We're thinking about Roy. We're wondering what you would give us. If you don't know how feasible it would be to have one hotel in Roy, then it puts you at a big disadvantage because then you're just going to try to compete with the other cities. But if you understand, if you have good market data, a good analysis that says this is very feasible or it's not feasible except for this type of incentive, that puts you in a very good position. Or conversely, if you can understand that right now, because of the market in South Weber County and North Davis County, it's not feasible, then that allows you to put your time and energy into something else that would be, so that you can put to sleep something like a hotel, the type of hotel that you're thinking about. Any other, any specific questions about any component of the proposal?

I really liked the part on page three where you were talking about quarter-wide improvements and then the focus on the smaller businesses. I really like that. I believe that that is an important option for us and I believe that our citizens like that concept because we do have some important smaller businesses that have been around for a long time. And that milieu, that feeling, I think, is appreciated, at least with, we've had a lot of studies with our form-based code thing and things, and that, I believe, does kind of rise to the top level that they appreciate smaller businesses as opposed to one big developer coming in and making everything look like another city or look like the same thing over and over. So I appreciate that ability for you to focus on that.

Thank you.

I actually, I liked how you divided it into tasks on that page. You pointed out where we'd be with year one, year two year three the question i have is it looked like the cost was about 150 000 and i'm wondering is there any ripcord for the city to go oh this isn't working we want out Do we get half of that back, or do we only pay half of that in as we're going along? Anyway.

Typically, the way that I contract is, or the way that Place Builders contracts is by hourly, by hours completed and tasks completed. So some firms, especially firms that focus in this area of economic development, will bill per percent complete, or they'll just send you a bill. We don't do that. We like the honesty of saying, hey, these are the tasks we completed. Sometimes we finish a project under budget, and I'm fine with turning funds back. So under that contract of billable hours, there's a provision in there that either party could pull the plug, and then you're only billed for the work that you completed, and if you don't want to continue. For scale, I put in the budget of the North Temple project. That was about $200,000, that study, $195,000, for a very similar set of tasks. And I understand that there's a different budget here and it's a different scope, although the corridor was very similar. One of the things on North Temple, we had about 100 businesses that we were working with. There's a few larger lots further west on North Temple. Here I imagine we probably have about 150 businesses on the corridor between the points that staff decided we would look at it as part of the study area. And where we're a little different is we definitely give you that secondary research, which is stuff you can go out on the internet. What's the price per square foot of retail space or office space? That stuff you can look up and you can pay somebody to assemble all that together, but it's hard to make sense of it. So definitely making sense is something we do, but really what's unique about our approach is we do primary research. We rely on primary research. What does that mean? We're going out to the businesses and talking to them. We want to reach, the goal is at least half of those businesses, having a conversation, understanding what their plans are for investment. What's holding them back from making a bigger investment? What challenges have they had operating in the city, maybe expanding their business, or what have they experienced on the quarter? And sorry to go a little extemporaneous on you. One of the big challenges that you've recognized with 1900 West is that it's a UDOT facility. It's not a city facility. It's not a city street. So you're limited on what you can do with it. But I'll share an example of why a plan is very helpful in addition to what Brody said in that private parties will come to you and want to do something, but they're asking, well, what are the city's plans? Because they want to understand that if they're going to make a big investment. UDOT, it's the same question. I had a conversation with the Region 1 planner, the UDOT planner for North Utah, in anticipation of this proposal. I spoke with them about what are your plans for Roy? What are your plans for 1900 West? And he said that in 2023, they completed a 1900 West corridor study that went multi-jurisdictional. And they only identified one project for Roy. And there are no specifics for that project. So it could be a number of different things, a number of different treatments. And I asked him why that was. And he said, well, we just didn't have plans to rely on. We didn't know what the city is going to do or wants to do with 1900 West. So it limited what we could say our investment on 1900 West is. They want to be part of this process. So what was good, what was positive, they expressed, We very much want to participate. If this plan moves forward, we want to be a part of it. That will allow us to dial in what is the phase one investment that we're going to make on 1900 West. And they don't want to just impose that on you. They want to make it, they want to know what business is and what the council and the RDA board and what residents want so that they're not just coming in and doing something that's then unpopular for Roy. GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS WILL NOT ONLY HELP PRIVATE INVESTMENT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CITY WANTS TO DO BEFORE THEY MAKE AN INVESTMENT. IT WILL ALSO HELP WITH THE STATE'S DECISION, WITH UDOT'S DECISION, WITH THE REGION, WITH WEEBER COUNTY.

That might actually be the strongest reason for me is because our streets are state-owned right there, and we do have to give them reason to spend money on fixing things how we need them so that we can develop businesses, because the streets do affect what businesses will come here and things like that. So that is a strong argument, I think. I just wanted to say that, so...

So how long does this study usually take?

Well, the schedule that I set I put it on a schedule. What I was thinking was to be able to give you capital improvement project list before your new fiscal year, which I assumed is July 1st. And so normally a project like this would last a year. That's like the typical, you know, consultants always say, oh, a year for a project. I was really thinking, when are you going to need new information? You're going to need it before the next fiscal year. So if you see on the project schedule, we would conclude by January. by June of next year but we probably have that to you by the end of April and then there'd be some actual I want to save a little bit of budget to help you after we adopt the plan to actually take some next steps on your highest priority maybe code changes that you want to do and get you some draft code that you could you could adopt to start making some changes so in your study obviously you go talk to all the businesses what about the ones that are in um

that don't want to sell their property, the ones that are in, what's the word I'm trying to think of? A family trust. Because we have a big property on 1900 and it's in a family trust. Do you ever try to like, I mean, you don't, you just, you're not trying to talk them into, I mean, telling them what could be if they did sell their property. Do you do that too?

I have a 1990 Ford F-150 that's in beautiful condition and I'll drive it around on the weekends and sometimes people will just come up to me and say, hey, what can I give you for that? Well, I don't have to sell it. And so, you know, I'll throw out a crazy number just to see what they'll say. But I'm not really interested in selling it. So those are very difficult properties to work with and owners to work with, but we are going to reach out to all property owners and businesses on the quarter within the study area that's been identified by staff. And so that'll include them. It can be harder because a lot of times when it's held in trust, it requires a little extra research to understand who's the trustee. But once we get a contact person, we try to reach them by multiple contact points, whether that's phone or email and follow up.

the difficulty can be if they're out of state he he lives in roy i went to high school with him if i can answer a little more directly yes they're going to talk to them for the study purposes but they're not going to go tell them what to do with their property yeah but they can tell them that they're talking they're going to get information from them right as businesses like he said what's what do you want to see change what could the city do better what are you thinking for your property? But they're not gonna go be like, hey, you need to go sell this so we can do X, Y, and Z. That's not what they're gonna do.

Okay, but I mean, your staff looks very capable. I mean, all the years of experience and they look like a really great staff with a lot of experience. I think it, I mean, and then all the cities that you've already helped, I mean, it looks like you have a great resume, and so I think this is a great opportunity that we need to have fresh new eyes on something that can help us, because we've been waiting for them to get 5600 and all that done, and we've had a lot of people saying, when you're going to do something with 1900 and you know now we've always said we'll wait till we get 5600 done and then we'll you know and but then when they had that ribbon cutting up at the base i mean that's 1500 more employees and they want to go eat at a nice restaurant or stay at a nice hotel or an apartment so we have i just think we need to have a study just to see what we can you know what can come to roy and because i know that businesses do their research too i mean they look at who's going to sustain their business if they do come to roy you know but if we have i don't know i just think it's a great idea and i really trust brody's recommendation and and reading you know everybody that you've helped and your staff i think this is something that we really do need in our city so that's

Well, feel free to call those references that are staffed. And if I can get back to something you said, Board Member Saxton, how I envision the recommendations that I'm going to provide to staff. The process that I follow is informed from being staffed myself. I was a planning director, and I had consultants who would give me just long lists of recommendations of things that could be done, But that didn't help me at all. What I needed to know, within my limitations of the staff and the budget that I have, what are the next steps? What are the concrete next steps that need to be followed? And so my default, like for example, with the North Temple Economic Action Plan, we gave them four recommendations. Things they could do when we presented that to the mayor. She was actually kind of surprised She's like whoa This is kind of refreshing because at the same time that we presented our plan Some national firm that had been funded by HUD had also done a study on the west side And they literally provided a plan with 200 recommendations now. What's the city staff going to do with that I? Where do they even know where to start with 200 recommendations because it wasn't phased? So my philosophy and our philosophy of placeholders is really just focus in on what's possible, what's feasible. Yes, we need a long-term vision at 20 years to capture that, but we're not going to give steps that are out past 10 years. We're really looking at the immediate zero to five years and then some after from the five to 10 and then a recommendation of, okay, what do you, what's the process you follow once you reach that year 10? How do you evaluate what you've accomplished in those previous 10 years and how do you move forward? So it's a very practical plan is what we want to get to you, not a pie in the sky, pretty picture. Oh, this is what your, this is what Roy downtown could be. With that said, I don't want to oversell you on what 1900 West and Roy can be. You have some significant limitations, which is why you haven't seen the investment that's gone other places. And part of that is how car-oriented it is and where investments are being made. And also... Understanding the market that we're in, a lot of the drive for new development has been multifamily mixed-use development. And the multifamily component has really been overbuilt in Utah, especially northern Utah, in the last couple of years. And so you won't see that type of development probably for the next five years, even though we have a big need for housing, not that type of housing right now because we've overbuilt it. So that's the driver for a lot of these big mixed use development projects. What you can do in the meantime, as things will slow down a bit, is get a good plan in place. And take a look at your small business, because that's what makes Roy really unique. When you look at other commercial centers in South Weber County and North Davis County, there is nothing like 1900 West and Roy in terms of the number of small businesses in such a small area. So that in itself is something quite unique, and maybe to see it not as a negative, but as something that's very positive. And what could you do as an RDA board to lean into that with incubator space or... If I'm taking too much time, stop me, just because I'm excited about this. A lot of economic development focuses on the big guy, but I really like to focus on the smaller guy. And something we did in Salt Lake City that they're just starting to implement is the RDA is doing what's called a, we put together a plan for them to do a subleasing program. They had spaces like you do that aren't occupied, that are vacant. And so the RDA stepped in with our recommendation, our plan. They step in as the leaser. They're going to lease that space, and then they can sublease it to smaller businesses who maybe wouldn't be able to make the big jump to sign a three- or five-year long-term lease, don't have that creditworthiness, or they're a new business. And so the RDA can take a little bit of a risk on them. That's just one example. I wouldn't suggest that without doing any kind of study yet. That's just an idea of how we went to a practical recommendation of really helping small businesses along a corridor.

So, Brody, would this help us, like, if a business was looking at Roy, and we can say, well, we had this feasibility study, and you can tell them who they were, and they felt that what you want to bring to Roy would really work good in Roy. So, wouldn't that help us with that business coming to Roy?

No, that is the intention, and Kirby's kind of hit the nail on the head, and my estimation is we need, one, the hard data, but, like, I didn't want this study to be what I have seen some studies turn into, of a fluffy, let's make, with all due respect, let's make these people in chairs really happy and warm and fuzzy, even though there's no way this is happening. So yes, the idea of this is to be very practical, very goal-oriented, and actually give us some some real things that we could work toward that again it might not be what some people want to hear you might have to tell your neighbors that no matter what we do trader joe's ain't coming right chick-fil-a is not coming right now maybe kirby can do the research and disagree with me i would love it if he does i doubt he will because i'm kind of smart too But let's have actually some discussions in reality rather than some of just the hopes and dreams that we've had. And I think this benefits... us equally to other entities that may or may not want to come help us or become part of roy and then i actually think with the data that they get maybe there's some ideas that we haven't thought of that are going to be very practical practical and useful um so yeah i uh again you all know me well enough like i'm not here like let's just do a study so we all feel better like There's some very good reasons why, one, our data needs to be updated so that we can actually have practical, realistic conversations. But two, in talking with the people that kind of introduced me to Kirby, and I'll just tell you, so the main person that I talked to was Marcus Keller. He's been here a few times. He helps with bonding. He used to work for Zion Bank. He now is with Cruz and Associates. and I've used reference Marcus and he's helped other places that I represent and I don't have anything bad to say about him and he's the one I kind of told him what I wanted and I may or may not have used some French when I told him like I just want some study without the horse manure right and he was like well i got the guy you need to talk to so that's why kirby comes highly recommended and and in our conversation with him like that's what i wanted this discussion to be is and and i told all of them at lunch i said i hope if the data says you know that i'm dumb i want you to tell me that If the data says that we can't have a Chick-fil-A, let's just talk about that. Let's talk about what we could be doing and promoting. He talked in some of our conversation about the small business kind of niche. You know, when that's presented from an outside person, it's like, well, that actually probably has something that might have some legs and is something that we can actually do to benefit and move forward. So yeah, I really have no reservations. I'm happy to take more questions, but you know, you'd basically just need a majority go with the study yeah so what would do some direction to move forward with it uh what would happen is kirby would kind of present me a contract we'll go through that uh see if we're comfortable with it we would present it just okay as soon as we're comfortable with it for ratification and then we could move forward so council do you have any questions

I'd like to just jump in again. So what if we do it in a reverse approach instead of saying, hey, let's go for the full Monty and then back off. What if we planned and just did one through three? Because I think your phases one through three are very practical for us. And as I look at these numbers, this proposal, are these numbers that we can kind of rely on when we look at the proposal at a glance? So can you give us an idea of what that is? You know, I look at, if I add one through three up, that's about 69,000, and then if I add up the prime consultant expenses, I guess maybe we cut that in half, so that's 6,000. Is that something, or is that something you come to us later with?

No, you could divide it up however the expense is. All of that is associated with phase one because 12,000 of that is for traffic analyses. We use a contractor that will set up and that will work in coordination with UDOT, where we'll set up traffic cameras at multiple locations to gather data. And so that's an expense, that's all within the first phase of task one through three. So it's about 82, if you went with phase one.

Okay, that's what I'd like. Stages one through three would be about $82,000. And then what if we say, golly, this is wonderful, we really do want to get some of that other fluffier stuff, you know? Then what time frame do we need to be letting you know that you would need to be able to proceed to go up to that 151?

Yeah, if you noticed, I kind of set it up that way that we would be doing a council work session before we really get into phase two with the plan. Where that might present you a little bit of a challenge is I'm going to be going out, we're going to be going out and talking with businesses along the corridor. And so they're going to want to know why is this happening. Yes, we want to gather this information, but what for? And so being able to communicate that the city's not only studying, but also putting together a plan. We want to gather your input that this is feeding into a vision that comes from not only the board, but also property owners. And so we wouldn't have to tell them that there's a possible plan component. But seeing this as one process makes it a little bit easier. But like I said, the way I operate is we're working month to month for you on this contract. At any point, if you're not happy, we can change course. I always do that with the projects that I manage. We're flexible in changing the scope and moving things around if there's a direction you think we should focus in on.

So month to month, do you report to Brody what you've been doing and what information?

Yes, we would have bi-weekly meetings where I provide updates and also could provide an update at every board meeting, RDA board meeting. I could be available to give you an update that shows the progress we've made. And every invoice that you would receive would show the work that we've done that month.

I do think we have to be careful about piecemealing it as in like, I feel like Roy's done this a lot. We never, we do stuff halfway because we don't want to pay for it or we don't want to follow through all the way or whatever, at least from an outside. I'm a new council member, but from the outside looking in, that's what it feels like we've done in the past. And so if we do do this, and I do like that we have the flexibility to stop if we do think it's not working, but I think if we commit, that we do need to commit to the full thing. And I do like that it will help us focus, because I do think we've lacked focus. Like if we really want to get 1,900 full of businesses and doing what it needs to do to help our tax base and make our citizens happy like i think we need that focus and we need and like brian said like the tasks really help us do that but also just helping us really zone in on what we really want to do because it does feel like we've been like here here here here here like everybody has ideas but there's no like focus enough to make things actually happen. Does that make sense? So that's just my thoughts on that.

Yes, and you brought up the point that I wanted to make. You helped me realize the point I wanted to make a little better, and that is if we're going out to all those businesses, we want to go out to them to not only hear their plans, but to understand what the plan is for the quarter. So not their own individual plan, but what they're thinking about for the quarter and participate in that. So if you divide up the two, and we didn't talk about the plan part, we might need to go out again to talk with them to say, okay, now we're starting to formulate a plan. Let's get your input on what the plan for the quarter is, not just for your business and your property that you have.

so it saves a little bit to keep it together and makes us gets us to move a little faster and separate separating them but if you want to do that we could certainly do it and so obviously if you go to a business and and they say hey i i'm done i'm one i'm old retired i want to sell this place Do you go back to Brody and say... They can do that.

I think the distinction really is they're not advocating for one thing when they talk with the businesses. Like if they get that information and they want to pass it on to me, that's fine. They're talking with the businesses to understand the area, to understand concerns, for

our benefit to present ideas so yeah they're not going to go try it right they're not like developer they're not going around yeah like for example there's some businesses that have you know like really bad turn-ins from the road to their business and if like but maybe more have that same problem they haven't told us about it i just happened to meet a couple business owners from roy and they brought up stuff that if i wouldn't have if no one would have talked to them i wouldn't just happen to be there at the moment then i may have never known about any of that stuff so by them going and talking to every single business owners that are going to say things that maybe we haven't realized as a council or as a city or staff or whatever, because we're not there living it daily, but those business owners are. And to me, I'm like, oh, if I'm going there, I don't care how I get in. I'll just figure it out eventually. But a business owner knows, oh, this is hurting my business because I've seen a decline in this or whatever. So those are things that we don't necessarily easily see. but that they would be able to find out as a big picture, but also maybe smaller areas of how to fix those problems. I mean, is that right or am I totally just misunderstanding?

In surveying the corridor and understanding the challenges the businesses are facing and also their own investment plans personally for their property and their business, getting a big picture survey, having that aggregate data, but you can't just look up somewhere online. You have to go and speak with people. Getting that information then helps you know where are you going to make the best investment that can help mitigate some of those challenges. For example, let's say on a quarter you had some security concerns. Well, the businesses may not be talking to each other, but if you find an aggregate that there are some specific issues that could be mitigated with lighting or maybe a management district where they could share the cost of security to do some additional things that police just can't do. then that might mitigate that risk and allow them to feel safer about making a bigger investment themselves. So that's just one example.

So, council, any more questions, or do we just want to go ahead and three of us, three council members, say that we want to go forward with this study?

Maybe just to clarify for me, you've talked about reaching out to all of the business owners, which I think is very important. I do see that your goal is 50%. So when you say target 50%, does that mean that that 50% is your goal, or does that mean 100% is your goal, but you're going to make sure it's at least 50%? What's that approach?

That's a better way to say it. We're going to try and reach everyone. But at some point we can't spend. We have to decide we can't keep trying to reach out to people. And so once we get past a certain point, we feel like, OK, we've we've emailed them twice. We've called them twice. They're still not responding. OK, we don't have the time to keep and probably they're not going to respond. But our goal would be, we don't just go out once or send a few emails and say, oh yeah, we sent out a survey. No, we're gonna be repeatedly trying to contact them, the property owner or the business owner.

I have a question. Okay. The corridor, we keep referring to it as a corridor, but it stretches from, Where, because we're not, are we talking all the way to the city borders or?

More or less, Brian. What I told them to focus on was essentially 53, 5200 south to the city, the southern border.

Okay. All right.

There's just.

That's a good question. I should have said that a little more.

So basically 5,200 south to sunset, that area.

52 south. Okay.

53, yeah. Yeah, okay. And then essentially, clearly the east side of 19, and then the west basically a couple blocks right there.

In case the paper calls me, I wanted to make sure I got it right.

Don't you call the paper, Brian? No, I won't call the paper. No, you're the boss of the paper. Let's be honest.

Boss, yeah.

So any other questions, council, or do we want to proceed with this?

Well, I think we should certainly proceed. But I mean, I just I guess the question makes you understand. So at the end of this, like if we end up paying the 151, we end up with a product, right? Like we end up with a with a plan and we also received a service. so it's not like I like I guess I'm just not sure I understand the hesitation with you know trying to pay in increments because it's not like I you know call a plumber and I'm like hey come fix my thing and then by the end of the visit he's like oh I couldn't fix it sorry but I've still paid him like in the end we still are getting a plan what the plan says we can or can't do depends on the environment that you're working with not necessarily you but I mean in the end we do get something so I guess do I understand that right like

You do. I was just describing the way that we at Place Builders bill. We don't bill percent complete. We're not going to charge you for work we didn't do. If it turns out it only took us a third of the time for one of these tasks instead of all of the time, we don't just bill it out. We might save you money if we can get through efficiently, then we won't bill completely.

but we also agree not to exceed that amount and within that amount that we've agreed not to exceed we will deliver a plan with all of the tasks included okay and this comes out of our rda fund also so i saw yeah i saw in the packet mention of the current balance and that kind of thing so that was that was good to see i think we'd be very fortunate to be able to work on a project like this with you and i think this is I mean, a long time coming. And this is, I really like the idea that this is, like, skipping all the, like, we're done with the dreaming phase. That's over. Let's, like, do something now. And that's great. And if I know Brody, I know that's how it is. And I tend to be that way, too. You know, and if it's something that we're disappointed in, like, oh, that's not going to work, like, then just let it go. Like, and so I'm glad that this is just going to address all of that so that there's no more questions and there's no more fantasizing. And it's just work from here on out, which is great. It's tangible. Mm-hmm.

okay so we got three looks like everybody agrees that we want to go forward with this and all systems it's a long time coming and we're grateful brody found you and we go highly by his recommendations and so this is so kirby kirby and i'll go back and forth um on some contracting and make sure things are right up square i'm not worried about it and then

As soon as that's ready, we'll bring it back for another board meeting where you'll approve that contract and go.

Just the fact that you sat through, what, three hours of listening to everybody?

Not quite four.

And I was wondering who you were the whole time. I was waiting for you to get up and say something, because I didn't know who you were. I'm like, what's he going to talk about?

My thought was, I don't miss being in Brody's seat.

And I want to say for the record, I told Kirby that we took our time here in Roy and that he didn't have to be here at 530, but he didn't listen to me.

Well, look at you have conversation for the next week to go home and talk to your family about. Okay, well then sounds like it's... something we want you to pursue and we're grateful that you came tonight so thank you thanks okay so i guess we can ask for an adjournment a motion to adjourn i motion to adjourn have a second second all in favor say aye aye okay and it's not even nine o'clock