Historic District Commission - Regular Meeting

Good

evening, and welcome to the City of Rockville's Historic District Commission. It's Thursday, February 19. This is meeting number two two twenty six. I'm joined I'm Peter Fosserman. I'm the chair of the HCC, and I'm joined by fellow commissioners, Seth Demba, Michael Goldfinger, Anita Neil Powell, and Mercy Shengay.

With us this evening also are staff members, Sheila Bashiri, who's our preservation planner, Cynthia Walters, who's our deputy city attorney, Katie Gerbace, who's comprehensive planning manager, and Megan Flick, who is the principal planner. The meeting may be viewed on Rockville's channel eleven, and that website is rockvillemd.gov/rockvilleeleven. And each meeting is also you have the ability to view the meeting later on. And that's also at rockvillemd.gov videondemand. First item on the agenda this evening are committee and organizational reports.

Is anyone from Peerless Rockville here this evening? I do not see anyone. Sometimes they show up a few minutes later, so we'll move on. If they show up, they can report. Next on the agenda is the Lincoln Park Historical Foundation and fellow commissioner, Anita Powell. Good

evening. Again, my name is Anita Neal Powell. I'm the president of the Lincoln Park Historical Foundation and the Leroy e Neal African American Research Center. The foundation will be hosting its forty ninth anniversary of February 28, 4PM, at the Mount Calvary Baptist Church in Lincoln Park, and the one hundred and thirty fifth anniversary of the Lincoln Park community in June 2026. We would like to ask that you stop by City Hall and visit the showcase depicting black history throughout Montgomery County.

And finally, as we continue to celebrate Black History Month in Rockville, please check out the African American Heritage walking tour or virtual tour of downtown Rockville. HTC have really recently included the former Carver Junior College located at 850 Hungerford Drive as one of the many stops on the walking tour. Currently, it's the Board of Education. For more information, contact the foundation at lincolnparkhist@aol.com or h d c staff for more information on the walking tour. And this concludes my report.

Thank you, commissioner. Next on the agenda are any public comments. It's open forum time for anything that is not on the agenda this evening. If anyone has a comment that's here this evening or online, if you could please speak up. Next is the HCC, the commissioners, and any comments from the staff. Commissioners, anything to say? It is time.

Good evening. As I've been doing for the last several months, I've been highlighting a different historical building within the city of Rockville just to make everybody aware that history is there. We just have to look for it. And tonight, I've chosen the Farmers Banking and Trust Company building in Downtown Rockville. In the late nineteenth century, attempts to establish banks in Rockville were less successful than in other parts of Montgomery County.

Farmers Banking and Trust Company opened in 1900, joining Montgomery County National Bank of Rockville, which opened in 1884. Farmers Banking kept its funds at the National Bank while its original building was under construction. During World War I, Farmers Bank played a significant role in the city as its President, Robert G. Hilton, headed the committee that promoted Liberty Bond sales. Farmers Banking and Trust constructed its Art Deco building in 1931 as construction of the new courthouse required the demolition of the bank's original building along with several other buildings.

At the time, it was reported that this was the first Art Deco designed building in Rockville. Today, it remains as the only Art Deco building in the city. Farmers Banking and Trust Company survived the Great Depression of the 1930s, closing in March 1933 for the banking holiday and reopening on 04/15/1933. The building is one of the very few that survived the urban renewal projects of the early 1960s, which witnessed the demolition of more than 100 structures. Most of those that survived were demolished in succeeding years. During that time,

the Farmers Banking and Trust Company building changed ownership several times following the closing of

the banking company. In 2025, the Farmers Banking and Trust Company building was given historic designation by the City Of Rockville and today it houses Montgomery County's historic organization. The building sits within the Montgomery County Courthouse Historic District, which is characterized visually and aesthetically by a uniformity of building design, scale, materials and settings, that quote coming from the Department of Interior National Register of Historic Places Inventory nomination form. Building is located in Rockville's old commercial government and residential center. Designed by architects Thielman Moyer and company, the building's simple lines make it a classic example of the synthesis of neoclassical and art deco.

The granite facing on the building features carved ornamentation tip It's with County Courthouse Historic District, which is characterized visually and aesthetically by a uniformity of building design, scale, and material. Just said that. Typically, the art deco style, and that concludes tonight's, talk on the, on that historic building. Thank you. Thank you, commissioner.

Commissioner Powell.

Hi, Jen. My great grand uncle, Walter Johnson, had an account in that bank. As a matter of fact, I have some of his receipts and his statement because I know there was some issue with black people getting

Is that

involved in it. Yes. So Alright. Uh-huh. I thought I did share that information.

Thank you, Anita. That's

You're welcome. Great.

It it brings the building more to life. Yes. Thank you.

Remember when

Sir, if you could just

If you can speak to the microphone.

Yeah. If you could just because the meeting's recorded. Thank you, sir.

Hi. My name is John Dufief. I grew up in Rockville. I was born in Rockville on Mount Vernon Place. My father was a builder, and he had an account at that bank. And when I was three years old, I went in the bank, and there was a lot of farmers in there. And I could smell the manure on their shoes, and I didn't know what that smell was. I was only three years old. And I said, dad, what is that smell? You know? And he explained to me. So it that's been around for a long time. I'll never forget that.

Thank you for sharing that story. They

were farmers back

Any other commissioners have any comments this evening? Okay. Staff, anything to say? Okay. Thank you very much. Next on the agenda, our consent agenda. Approval of the minutes from last month on 01/15/2026. May I have a motion?

I make a motion.

Second. I'll second. Okay. Any comments? All in favor? Thank you very much. Next on the agenda are evaluations of significance. We have three items this evening under that category. The first one is twenty twenty six dash two thirty two evaluation of significance EOS. Our applicant is Mike Whitmer, who is a civil engineer, and this is in reference to Saint Raphael's Catholic Church. Staff, do you have a presentation?

We do have a presentation for everyone this evening, and we do also have a couple of remarks to make before we actually get into the presentation.

Okay.

For commissioners, if you've checked your email in the last hour and a half or so, you saw that staff have sent over, a series of pieces of testimony that were submitted into the record this afternoon relative to this case. We also have several folks that have signed up in advance to speak when we get to the public hearing portion of the meeting here today. There in looking at the testimony that was received, there were several questions, and it seems like a little bit of clarification might be necessary about the HDC's role in the hearing tonight. So I just wanna take a couple of minutes to share some facts for you all as commissioner as well as for meeting attendees, folks who might be watching this afterwards just so everyone is operating off the same kind of basic background information. So for those who don't know me, my name is Katie Gerbis.

I'm a comprehensive planning manager here in Rockville. So I oversee our long range planning efforts as well as our historic preservation program. I'm also a member of the city's development review committee. So this is an interdisciplinary working group made up of staff from every department across the city that is tasked and responsible for reviewing all development review applications as they come in to make sure they're in alignment with our approved and adopted ordinances, regulations, processes, everything like that. Tonight, we have application 2026232EOS, which is an evaluation of significance for a structure at 1592 Kimblewick Road.

Sheila, when she gives her report, will talk to you much more about that building. But, specifically, what I wanna remind this body of tonight is that, as a quasi judicial body, which the historic district commission is, you have certain authority that the city code gives you. Evaluations of significance is one such use of that authority. So your role here when performing an evaluation of significance is quite simply to determine whether or not this property meets one or more of our nine designation criteria. The Historic District Commission does not have any authority or jurisdiction over new construction on sites that are not historic sites, so this body would not be involved in any review or approval of any future construction that would happen on this site.

We also had several members of the public reach out to ask questions about, this project kind of as a whole, many understanding that the HTC is one component of kind of a bigger set of processes that need to happen. So I'd like to provide just a little bit clarity on what that process is, what the city has officially received so far, just so that way the public is aware. So we currently have an active minor site plan application in our development review committee right now for this property. The site plan number, for those who are interested in that, is STP2024Dash00478. The scope of the application, and this is a verbatim quote, is for replacement of a 4,386 square foot church office building with a new 5,002 square foot church office building, and their proposed replacement is in roughly the same location as the existing structure, which you all are reviewing here tonight for an evaluation of significance.

The original application for this minor site plan amendment was submitted to the city in January 2024. To date, there have been three revisions to that application that have been submitted by the applicant. The way that that process works with our development review committee is an application is submitted, staff review and provide feedback, then the applicant has an opportunity to resubmit to address that staff feedback. And we kind of continue as long as we need to in order to get to the approval of the site plan. So to date, there have been three revisions.

The most recent revision, we had comments sent out to the applicant in December 2025. We have not yet received a fourth revision, a fourth submittal. So at this point in time, the city is waiting for the applicant to determine if they would like to move forward, and if so, to submit their latest revised plans there. To date, all of the revisions that have been reviewed by city staff have been completed within our posted review timelines. The plan has not yet been approved.

There are still some revisions that need to happen, as I alluded to earlier, so nothing has been formally approved at this point in time. As you all know, as the HDC, the evaluation of significance is one component of what is required for a demolition permit. But this approval on its own is not this does not immediately say, yes. You can demo. The building's demo permit still needs to be applied for. It still needs to work through its process. This is considered a minor site plan amendment. Our zoning ordinance has a section that kind of describes what's considered a minor amendment, a major amendment, level one site plan, two site plan, and it kind of goes up from there. The approval authority for minor site plan amendments is done by the chief of zoning. That's Jim Waselik.

You all met him last week. He came and presented on the zoning ordinance rewrite. In the city of Rockville with our current code, minor site plan amendments do not require mailed notices. Most of our other site plans do require notification by snail mail that goes out to a certain radius from the structure. Minor site plans do not require that.

HDC does require that. The radius is 500 feet from the property address as well as HDC requires a sign posted on the site itself. As well as no mail notices for minor site plan amendments, we also do not require public meetings for minor site plans. For our major site plans, we do require public meetings to take place. That said, we have a case planner who is assigned to this case that is always willing to meet and share, what has been submitted to entertain comments and feedback from the community.

They are always available. So the case planner that we have who is assigned to this case is a gentleman whose name is Christopher Davis. His email address is cdavis@rockvillemd.gov. So if anyone from the public is interested in seeing more details of what the plans that are currently submitted for this minor site plan amendment or if they would like to have official comments be considered by the chief of zoning when he uses his authority to make a decision on this case, they are welcome to and encouraged to reach out to Chris, and he'll be able to note all of those and add them into the record.

And Katie, excuse me one second. Could you just repeat his email address for those that are online with us?

Yep. So his name is Christopher Davis, and the email is c davis, so the lettercdavis,@rockvillemd.gov.

Thank you.

And at this point in time, we have no other active applications for this property. I know in some of the testimony, there was talk about other structures that might be on the larger church property. We have not received any development review applications for anything beyond this structure that we're discussing here tonight. I know that was a lot, but I think it's important to share that information, especially because it is a minor site plan. It's not advertised kind of as heavily as some of our other site plans. So hopefully, this was informative for you all as commissioners as well anyone who we have attending our meeting tonight.

Absolutely. Thank you very much.

I will turn it over to Ms. Bashiri.

Michael? Yes. Yes. That was very thorough, Katie. Thank you very much. But just to make it clear because listening to what you just said and there may be some confusion, but none of what you said applies district commission. This is all other commissions and bodies in the city, is it?

So the evaluation of significance component comes before you all.

About all the planning stuff is not within our purviews.

That is correct.

I just wanna make that perfectly clear. Yep. Thank you.

Good evening. I'm Sheila Bashiri, preservation planner. This review is for 2026Dash232DashEOS, which is for evaluation of significance. 1592 Kimblewick Road. Okay.

The property itself is located on Kimbell Wake Road, and it's own this is the campus that you're looking at, but the only, demolition that is proposed here is for the church office. And so that's what we will be reviewing is the church office itself, looking to see, what the historic significance is of the property of the building itself. So as you can see, this is the building on the campus just to give you a look at it. K. This is the front of the building.

It is a colonial revival style building. It's got, multi multi light windows, double hung windows. The front door here has a, has panels flanking it, and it's got a panel door with a multi light, glass windows and also additional windows on the other side. The, shutters are vinyl, and you see the multiple gable roofs here. And, basically, the multiple gable roofs are the indication that it was built within, several times several periods of time that it was added onto.

And so that's why you have the different sections of the building itself. So, looking at it, you can see the, grounds, the the the hedges, the the landscaping that's on the property itself, and the sign that's on the office building. And the campus itself does consist of, school. It does consist of a single family home that's used for, priests to live in, to reside in. Does have a a daycare, nursery there, and a actual school there and a actual, assisted living home as well.

So it is quite the multiuse campus. And this showing the west side elevation. This is showing the north side rear elevation. So you see all the, different gable roofs, the, asphalt shingle gable roofs, the vinyl siding, the brick chimney at the end. So you can see there's one section here that is a flat roof.

So that's all these different types of roofs and the different heights. That is the indicator that it was built over several periods of time. We don't know the exact date of the building itself. We do know that there was some remodeling going on in nineteen nineties, and we do believe that it started out as a farmhouse in the nineteen sixties when the property was purchased. But beyond that, we really don't know exactly when the building was built.

It was a chicken coop.

It was a chicken coop?

Yes. It

was. They turned into a at all. Okay. See if we k. I'm trying to here we go. Okay. So finding that the building proposed for demolition at 1592 Kemblewick Road does not meet any of the historic district commission's adopted criteria for historic significance or architectural design lands and landscape significance. Staff recommends against historic designation. Do you have any questions for me or for miss Gerbez who assisted with the report this this time?

Commissioners, any questions? No. Thank you.

Okay. And I did wanna point out once again, just reiterating what miss Gerbez had said to you. Tonight, we are only looking at is the building historic or not. There is no other purview. We do not have purview to say what, whether it should be demolished or not. We do not have purview to say if it is demolished, what will go there. We are only, absolutely only, looking at is it historic, does it meet the criteria for being historic, or is it not?

Reservation.

Don't worry.

So any questions for me at all? Then if no questions, then we can proceed.

Thank you very much. Sure. So is anyone either online or here this evening to make a comment on what's before us?

Yes. So we have someone from the applicant team here in person, the mayor and council chambers.

We

also sorry. Forgive me. I said that earlier. And then

That's alright. We also have a representative from the applicant team available on Webex.

Okay. Great. So whomever from that team is the lead is more than welcome to speak. Mister Dufief, sorry. I didn't realize that.

Yes. Good evening. My name is John Dufief. I'm a parishioner of Saint Rayfield's Catholic Church on, Dunster Lane. We've been trying to get this accomplished since 2022, and we've been working hard and trying to answer all the questions and jump through the hoops that we need to.

The building is an old chicken coop that has been added on to many times, before the school was ever built and the church in 1966. So, the the building is is corrupted. It it has crooked floors that are 18 inches out of level in seven feet, and it's it's in bad shape. It's in very bad shape. And so we have a very large fam parish of over 2,800 families, and trying to conduct business out of this church this little parish office is just possible.

So we we propose to demolish this building and build a new office in the exact same footprint, maybe a a few feet bigger, and it would just be a half story below the earth and then one story above. So it'd be when you walk in the front door, there'll be six steps downstairs and six steps upstairs. So it's not gonna be a tall obstruct looking type of a building. So the the style will match the church and the school using the same brick and the same roofing material.

Excuse me, mister Defief. Staff, is that something we can bring up for the folks that are online?

I don't believe we have a copy of that image. Okay.

And, again, it's not our purview this evening to what's okay. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to comment this evening?

We do have several members of the public who have signed up in advance to provide testimony. As I call your name, you will be promoted to a panelist, and you will be given the option to unmute yourself. You will also be given to the option to turn on your video if that's something you would like to do. All test or all members of the public testifying have three minutes for their testimony. The first person that we have signed up to speak is Caitlin Orth. Caitlin, give me a moment here. You are now a panelist. You should have the ability to unmute yourself.

Yes. Hi. Good evening. Thank you so much, council members, for welcome welcoming us in tonight. And thank you, Katie, for providing that context at the start. That was really tremendously helpful. My name is Caitlin North. I live in the Montgomery Square neighborhood adjacent to Saint Rayfield's Parish. I'm a member of the parish. Up until 2025, my children attended the school, so have a very vested interest in this community.

And this context is very helpful because as mister Defeat said, this has been going on since 2022, but we as parishioners had no idea. So thank you so much, Katie, for clarifying what this conversation and what the purview of this community committee rather overseas, and we'll continue to advance our testimony and our concern about this project moving forward. Because, again, this is the first time we, as personers, are are learning that this has been going on since 2022 and has been under review by the city since 2024. So thanks very much.

Thank you very much. Katie, next.

The next person we have signed up in advance to speak is Jose Padin. I hope I'm saying that right. And he is present in person here this evening.

Thank you for the time and thank you again Katie for the explanation. That was very much appreciated. I'm a Rockville resident and a parishioner. I believe, you know, today's questions, I understand are about historical significance. I do we do have a few questions about next steps and process here.

Is this the appropriate format to be able to achieve and understand what's next in this process? It sounded like this was a minor event. So is there is there any other proceedings or any other sharing of information about this? Because like the last person said, this is kind of the first that a lot of parishioners are finding out about this. There are concerns about health and safety of our children, what what the plans are during this, during the demolish timeline. There are many concerns that we have about what this project will entail, the impact to the community, the impact to, you know, our our our school and the children there. What

would

be the next appropriate action to be able to find out information about this project?

So thank you for testifying. Two things. One is I think the staff can respond to what the city's role would be, and then I'd have to defer to the client or the applicant to talk about their process. But I don't wanna go too much into that. From the city's perspective, we should, but not really from the clients. That's something that probably should be discussed at a different meeting.

Okay. What when would that meeting be? I think that that would be a clarification. Is there a next step or appropriate action that happens in this room or with City of Rockville?

I think Katie can respond.

So for the historic district commission meeting, this is the next step. In theory, well, I guess three actions could happen at the end of the meeting here tonight from the historic district The historic district commission could vote that this property does not meet our designation criteria and not recommend historic significance. They could find that this does meet one of our designation criteria and recommend historic, designation, that would trigger a whole separate process, which we can go into perhaps offline. I can give you the rundown of that. Or in theory, the HGC could decide not to take action tonight and bring this back on a future meeting agenda.

As far as what I think you're asking, Jose, about, like, the building itself and the approvals and all of that, so that would happen outside of the historic district commission. That would happen through the case planner, Christopher Davis, and the chief of zoning. I can write down their contact information, and I can share that with you before you leave tonight so that way you can get in touch with them. Because it's a minor site plan application, we do not require the same public meeting notices that and actual hearings that we do for larger site plan applications. So from the city's perspective, it would really be coordinating with the case planner. I certainly can't speak on the applicant's perspective of if they have plans to do something. It looks like perhaps mister Dufif has some thoughts on that.

Okay. Because

I I can help you

with that.

Okay. Beautiful. Yeah. Let's talk after. So ccdavis@rockville..Maryland.gov.

Rockville MD dot gov. Yeah. I'll write it down for you too.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, sir. Next, Katie.

The next person that we have signed up in advance to testify is Kelly Shires. Kelly, I am promoting you to panelist. You should have the ability to unmute.

Hi there. I just wanted to echo what Jose and Caitlin, said. I really appreciate the clarification on what this meeting is about and the next steps we can take. I am a parishioner at Saint Ray Fields. I'm also a parent to three kids in the school, and I'm also a staff member. I'm the school nurse there. So I had quite a few safety concerns, and I appreciate, you know, who I can speak to for the next steps. And, obviously, this is not the place, but, I appreciate the time and willingness to have the public come on. So thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else, Katie? When when everyone's testified, mister Defief, you can certainly come back up. Thank you for your patience.

The next person that we have signed up online to testify is John O'Brien. John, you should have panelists' privileges now to unmute.

Thank you so much. Members of the historic district commission, my name is John O'Brien. My concern is

not only about

the demolition, but ultimately what comes afterwards. In reviewing the HTC website, it appears that the commission is responsible for evaluating eligibility for any site or building outside of its storage zone for which demolition or substantial reconstruction is proposed. While I understand the purview of the commission as it relates to historic designation, mister Defief was provided an opportunity to provide context on the structure. To date, I've not seen any blueprints or detailed plans for what the proposed church office building will look like. So without transparency, we cannot evaluate whether it will respect the size, style, and character of the surrounding neighborhood.

As someone who lives in this community, I care deeply about how this decision will affect the place that I call home. Right now, we're being asked to approve a major change without knowing much about it. Dropping an office building into a residential setting without clear design details creates a major risk of putting something that's looks completely out of place. I'm not opposed to this project, but we need to know more. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Next, Katie.

That concludes the list of, members of the public who have signed up in advance to speak. If there is anyone who would still like the opportunity to speak on this case, if you are here in person, you can simply raise your hand. If you are participating virtually, please use the virtual raise hand feature. It should be at the bottom of your Webex screen.

You all can see the host who's okay. Because we cannot. Thank you. Don't see anyone. Okay. Mister Defief.

The safety and concern about the students and the school, we will surround the construction site with a chain link fence. The children won't be anywhere near the work area. We will use water to when we demolish the building, there will be a fire hose with a spray that will knock down any dust or anything that will go throughout the neighborhood or anything. There's not a a problem with any of that, and we will make sure everything is done properly. And the reason why we haven't really bought the neighbors and and the parish into the fold about this whole thing is because we don't know from the city of Rockville if we're allowed to even do this job.

So we don't wanna give anyone false hope, and that's why we're waiting from the city of Rockville to let us know if it's of historic historic value or if that we can even do this job. So that's what we're waiting for.

Thank you. Thank you for the clarifications. Yes. Katie.

We do have some additional folks who have indicated that they would like to speak on this case.

Okay.

The first that I see here is Nilo Kennedy. You should now have panelist privileges. Are you able to unmute yourself?

Can you hear me?

Yes. Now we can.

Wonderful. Thank you for this opportunity. My name is Nilo Kennedy. I am a parishioner at Saint Rafael, and I also have two boys that attend Saint Rafael School. This is the first I'm hearing about this project, and I would like I would like a lot more detail.

I would like to know a lot more about this project and how our kids are gonna be projected while this is happening, if it's gonna be happening while our kids are attending school, or is this gonna be during summer. So I would appreciate if we could be provided with those details so we could have an opportunity to have a say. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

We have one more hand that is raised. This is from Kelly Shires who spoke earlier. It's up to you, chair, if you would like to allow her the opportunity to

speak. Miss

Shires, you should be able to unmute.

Hi. I appreciate mister Dufif speaking, briefly on the safety. I just wanted to, touch base that while I appreciate the points, I really think that without, being a part of the school day to day, experiencing the school, it absolutely will be impactful to the students and where they are and their location. Again, as the school nurse, I'm there all five days. I see where the kids are playing. I am all over that campus, and I just don't really see a way that safety wise, this can't impact the students. So I just wanted to bring that up. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else, Katie?

No. We do not have any other hands raised. For our virtual meeting participants, if you open the meeting chat, you will see I've provided the contact information for the case planner, mister Davis, as well as the site plan number, as well, which should be used to reference this case, to mister Davis if you want to get in touch with him, to view any plans, give any comments, anything like that.

Thank you. So in my neophyte position as the new chair, I failed to ask the commissioners if they had any questions of the folks that spoke. So commissioners, any questions?

I have a question.

Okay. Commissioner.

So I do have a question. So, you know, I was thinking that I was wondering, instead of demolition, have you ever thought of, like, adding the building, some kind of reuse adaptive reuse instead of demolition, the whole building?

I would assume that would be for you, mister Defive.

Yeah. I didn't hear what you said.

Okay. No. I'm asking that okay. Instead of bringing it down the building, have you ever thought of adapting reuse, like reusing the building and maybe adding more elements to the building?

The building is on a you could Sir,

you could speak

to the microphone. I'm sorry.

I have trouble hearing. The building is on a crawl space that's only eight inches tall, and there's no way to get underneath to move pipes and remodel the the building. It's in terrible shape. And it's very hodgepodge, and it the heat doesn't work. And we have electric baseboard heat, and and that that does doesn't work as well either. So we have a difficult time working in there. We have three ladies and three priests and a deacons a couple deacons that work out of there, and it's just very difficult for them to work in that building. So

Thank you. Any other guests, commissioner Colfinker? Yeah.

Where appreciate everybody's interest, but it seems like I just want to reiterate basic part of Rockville's code in that any building, regardless of how old it is, if there's a desire to demolish it, must come before the historic district commission. And that's all that we as a commission can do is to determine whether this build whether that building has any historic significance. If it does not, if we determine it does not have historic significance, then the owner is free to do whatever he, she wants, demolish, remodel, add to or so on and so forth. So I think from all the comments I'm hearing, should the commission determine that the building has no historic significance, then I guess the recommendation might be or the suggestion would be just to take it up with the local powers that be within the church and go from there. But, you know, we have no no authority over that that part of your campus development.

So I just wanna make that clear. It seemed like there was a missing misunderstanding or of what we're here to do. So just wanted to make that clear. Thank you.

Thank you, commissioner. Any other comments or questions from the commission? So going off the reservation for a moment. I think it would behoove the community. Clearly, this is an important issue for the number of people that testified this evening.

If we could somehow get their contact information so that when mister Defief and his folks decide to have a public meeting or, you know, community outreach meeting that he knows who to contact so that they're involved and able to participate in further changes that might happen to the property if that's possible. Okay. Thank you very much. Staff, anything else before we call for a motion?

No. Okay.

Thank you. Commissioners, may I have a motion?

Second.

Alright. So finding that the building proposed for demolition at 1592 Kimble Walk Road doesn't meet any of the historic district commissions adopted criteria for historic significance or architectural design and landscape significance. I move that the HDC recommend against historic designation.

I'll second. Thank you. All in favor? Thank you very much. Thank you, staff. Thank you to those who testified. Next on the agenda is 2026Dash229 EOS, City of Rockville and Robert Bidler from Parks Facilities Manager is either online or with us this evening. Staff, do you have anything to add, comment, presentation?

Have We a presentation. Do have a presentation. Give us just one moment here.

Thank you.

Alright. Thank you for your patience. We have a brief staff report for application number 2026229EOS. This is for 14625 Rothkeb Drive. There we go.

Alright. So the evaluation significance that we're here for tonight is for the purposes of demolition. This is a city owned site and a city facility within a larger city owned site. So at the aerial map that you see on the left side of your screen, the red boundaries there, that is all part of about approximately 15 acre parcel that's owned by the city of Rockville. It's used primarily by our recreation and park staff, for maintenance and storage purposes.

You can see it's a little tiny on this screen, but the hashed yellow outline, that is the location of the structure that we are talking about here today that's proposed for demolition. We had recreation and park staff previously working out of that facility up until this fall when we opened a new building at 6 Taft Court. All of the folks who were working in this building have since relocated to 6 Taft Court, so we no longer need this building to be serving its current function here on the property. This next slide is just an overview of the maintenance facility as a whole. You can see in the bottom lower corner of your screen a red outline.

It's around Building Number 1. That's the structure, again, that we're talking about here today. But you can also see all of the other structures that exist within the site as well as what their uses are. So a lot of these uses are for storage. The city salt barn is there. Fleet maintenance facilities are located there. Our sign shop, our storage rooms. There's all sorts of kind of back of house functions for the city Of Rockville's day to day operations. This image is of kind of the front elevation of the building, which faces west. The main structure that you see here was constructed approximately 1970.

The trailers that you're going see on the next slide were added in the late 1980s. As you can tell from this image, it's a pretty simple structure, symmetrical on both sides, nothing really notable or noteworthy about its architecture. And then as you turn around the site, turn the corner, you'll start to see those trailers that I mentioned that were added on in the late eighties. They are wood sided trailers. You can see them in those two images there.

And as we continue our way around the building, you can see the back of the building. It very much looks like back of house. We have some dumpsters, chain link fence, other enclosures. And then our final elevation looks remarkably similar to that second elevation, kind of mirror images there. So you can see the main structure in the front as well as the trailers towards the rear.

So this is a site that has been owned by the city of Rockville since 1965. The structures that you see on-site were purpose built by the city for the city for our uses. There has been nothing noteworthy that has been found in the deed history. No important figures or events that staff can locate affiliated with this property. And as such, staff do not find that it meets any of our designation criteria, and staff recommend against historic designation.

Thank you, Katie. Commissioners, have any questions for Katie or other staff before we hear? Okay. Can this would this be the appropriate time to ask Robert to speak? Mister Bidler? Beidler?

Sure. It's mister Beidler. Robbie Beidler. I'm the Parks and Facilities project manager. Katie, thank you for covering all that. You did a great job, and thank you for putting the presentation and things together. Commissioners, thank you for hearing the application. Katie covered it really well. So all of our staff the building in question, housed our, public works operations staff as well as our parks and facilities staff, so most of our operations folks. All of the staff moved out of that building last April.

The building has now since kinda just sat there. There's no immediate use. The building is in not a great state currently. I certainly wouldn't want someone new to be moving in there to use it utilize it as an office in its current condition. All of the staff had moved to the 6th Taft Court, which is the on the adjoining Taft Court parcel.

Kind of adjoins the maintenance yard on the back. The city is currently undergoing a master planning process for the site in in whole to make sure that we're meeting the city's maintenance requirements. And as part of that, that includes repurposing the site, in the future. There's not a clear current need, but it currently is also not being utilized at all, and there's no real future use of this building.

Thank you very much. Any questions from the commission? Okay. Staff, anything else to add?

No.

Okay. Then may I have a motion? Bueller? Okay.

Here. Finding that the building proposed for demolition at 14625 Rothgeb Drive does not meet any of the historic district commission's adopted criteria for historic significance or architectural design and landscape significance. I move that the HDC recommend against historic designation.

May I have a second?

Second.

Thank you. All in favor? Thank you very much. Next on the agenda is 2026245EOS. The applicant is Ben Fisher, also the owner, and it's 931 Maple Avenue. Staff?

K. So this is case 2026245EOS, and it is a evaluation of significance for the purpose of demolition at 931 Maple Avenue.

Thanks.

Okay. So 931 Maple Avenue is located on the south side of Maple Avenue. As you can see here, it's nearly at that southeast corner where Maple Avenue meets Woodburn Road.

And

then here is the front facade of the home. It's a one story minimal traditional or ranch style home, so nothing really notable about architecture here. And it was built in 1947 according to SDAP. And then here we have on the left the east side yard and on the right, the west side yard. And you can kinda just see, the vinyl siding, the enclosed brick front porch. Nothing super notable here either. And then here we have the rear yard and the rear of the home.

Okay.

Okay. And then staff recommendation is finding that the building proposed for demolition at 931 Maple Avenue does not meet any of the historic district commission's adopted criteria for historic significance or architectural design and landscape significance. Staff recommends against historic designation.

Thank you very much. Just as a side note, backing up a moment. Again, as an EFA, I've detected another failure on my part. I did not ask if anyone from the public had a comment on the previous agenda item.

We did not have any.

Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. Okay. Commissioners, any questions of staff? Comments?

Commissioner Goldfinger? Again. Yes. Oh, me again. That's what you're here for. Comment, please.

Yeah. Personally, I don't find the building particularly historic in nature. But and I've said this a number of times at previous meetings, and I just want to bring it up again because I think it's something that if we don't have if my fellow commissioners don't have it in the back of their minds, should sort of keep it in mind. And that is that we have no criterion to indicate that the building and its neighbors represent a style that's significant in the post World War II growth of Rockville. While demolition of this building has a very small effect on the overall area, continued demolition of these small houses will ultimately alter the historic fabric of this part of the city.

And while we shouldn't be stopping progress, I only want to remind my fellow commissioners and the public to remember this important chapter in the city's history and growth. And now a question for staff, Is anyone documenting these neighborhoods today before all before it's unalterably changed? I think sort of important, something that the area of historic preservation we should be doing. And I guess I just don't know. So

K. The documentation is within the report itself when we do, add the photographs and all the history. This is something that stays on file within the city, and so we do have this documented. As far as the neighborhood as a whole, no, just one by one as houses come to us. There may be Well

We have requested for the past several fiscal years funding to do a windshield survey to kind of go throughout the entire city and document all of our, you know, structures that might be up for historic designation. To date, we have not received that funding, and that's simply too big of a task for staff to have the bandwidth to do in house ourselves. But that's certainly something that we continue to advocate for because we understand exactly what you're saying, Mr. Goldfinger.

Yeah. And, you know, I'd hate to see all of that change. You know, it changes for the better, But again, it erases a significant part of the city's history, its growth post World War II when we saw tremendous growth in not only Rockville but other small suburban cities. So it shouldn't be lost one by one as we demolish individual structures. And I'm going to keep saying that as long as I'm sitting here. So thank you.

Thank you, commissioner. I know that that's very important, and I agree with you. And also staff the windshield review or tour, that something we should be advocating for council the next budget session?

We would love that.

Okay. Thank you for letting us know. If you when you have a moment, could you send us some bullet points? Okay. Commissioner Powell?

Were notifications sent out to the community regarding this application?

Yes. Public notices were sent out, two weeks ago.

Yes. Okay. Thank you.

Commissioners, have any comments or questions? Anyone here this evening from the public in person or online that would like to testify? Or actually the applicant. I'm sorry. Mister Fisher.

I don't see the applicant joining.

Okay.

If the applicant is here but has joined Webex under a different name, if you can use the raise hand feature, that's at the bottom of your Webex screen. That will indicate to us that you are present. I am not seeing any hands raised. I do know that we had a few members of the public that expressed interest, in hearing about this application tonight. They did not sign up in advance to be on the speaker's list. But if anyone, whether they are online or in the room, is interested in speaking on this application, now would be the appropriate time to use the raise hand feature. Or if you're in the room, you can just raise your hand.

Sir, if you could just come up to the microphone because we are recording the meeting, please. Okay. Thank you. No one. Okay. Any other comments, commissioners? No? May I have a motion?

Find that a building proposed for demolition at 931 Maple Avenue does not meet any of the history district commissions adopted criteria for historic significance or architectural design and landscape significance. I move that the HTC recommend against historic designation.

May I have a second? I'll second. Thank you. All in favor? Okay. Thank you, staff. Okay. Next on the agenda are our discussion items. The first one is old business, which is our preservation month event, which is coming up this May.

This is your item, Commission. I'll turn this over to you.

Wasn't sure if you had something to add. So first of I just want to thank Commissioner Demba for taking the time. The two of us met and discussed sort of a rough agenda and some ideas of what we thought this year's event could be like. And then Seth did a memo, and staff has distributed the memo with the commissioner. So I guess we should start with, are there any comments on the memo or is there anything Commissioner Demba would like to add?

I don't have anything to add. I mean, I think it's it's, you know, it's still very rough. I just wanted to let it by the rest of the commission and get everybody's input, then we can sort of see where we where we are from there.

Okay. I didn't receive the memo, so can you share what's was in it?

Okay. Hang on. Give me a sec. Okay.

And I'll give you the the 10,000 foot version of it. It's the idea is to make it a little bit more active than last year. So meaning we would pick some buildings and homes around the city to do a tour. And then for instance, if it's a home, they would open their home up to the public for a tour. And then the owner could talk about what it's like to own a historic home and the process of what goes on to purchase it, plus keep it up, plus anything that we'd like to add if they've gone through the process in the past to improve the home.

And we had talked about maybe a bus depending on the number of folks that we if we thought we're gonna be far. If it was a short distance between each of the properties, then we could certainly consider walking. Commissioner Dumbo, did you wanna add anything?

So the idea was to yeah. Just to add a little bit. We sort of, you know, some because what we focus on is often, you know, private residences to find a way to get people sort of to understand that a bit more, but also for people who are interested, who have a historic home or are interested in owning a historic home. The theme would center around ideas like how to make your historic house work for you or what are the benefits and challenges of living in a historic residence. And then not only to see the properties but talk with the homeowners about about what it's like living in a historic district and, you know, how to go about doing the kinds of things that people want to do to our home to their homes and that we and that we adjudicate on.

So, you know, it would be good to have properties in different parts of the city. And so that's the question is really, you know, what does the does the the commission as a whole think this is a good idea? And then, you know, if we can get some input into what who we might ask to participate. And I think we should also reach out to Peerless Rockville. They have historic properties, including Frida's Cottage, which is a home that is actually occupied.

I know they pretty sure they still own it. And they rent it out. Right? And they've I've been in there because they opened it up for their anniversary year or so. So they have properties like that, but also other kinds of vernacular architecture. So reach out to them and see if they want to participate and go from there.

Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Powell?

A couple of questions. So are you looking to are you thinking about having it a a full day or half a day? That's the first question. The second question is, are you looking to I heard you say something about a bus maybe going around and doing that. So particular style so that if you decide to, let's say, go to certain areas in the in the city, you'll be able to see the different types of styles that you would have.

You know? Now you plan on including any businesses that historic nature? So what and then, I guess, the other question is what type of theme are you thinking about that could be inclusive of what we're trying to do?

I think thank you for the questions. I think the length of the program would depend on I know we're gonna have limited staff for this event, but I think the length of the program would depend on how much energy the commissioners wanna put into it. But also on top of that would be how many folks wanna sign up and and allow, you know, the public to come into their building or their home. And yes, definitely, we had talked Seth and I had mentioned, actually, the Farmers Banking and Trust building is maybe a possibility to look at. And then the property that Seth mentioned earlier that Pierlis Rockville has and any other significant commercial building that might be around or even a church.

It could be a place of worship. And then we did talk about geographically trying to spread it out and cover different parts of the city. And also, talked about diversity in terms of the size of these structures. Maybe it's a two bedroom house. Maybe it's a, you know, a seven bedroom house or it's a large church or it's a small bank or what have you. Did you want to add anything else?

Anita, those are all good questions. Think some of that is still open. I think probably a half day is better than a full day just because people are busy and it'd be hard to get people's attention and get people to be willing to open their house for all day. But maybe we get people to be willing to open their house for a couple of hours on a Saturday, late morning on a Saturday or something. So we'd have to figure all that out.

I mean, there are open questions too. Thematically, I mean, of what I said was how to make your historic house work for you. And what are the benefits and challenges of owning a historic property? Because I think some people are really committed to that as a thing, owning a historic property. I remember the and I always forget the address.

But we just recently looked at some work that's being done on the house that used to belong to the teacher, Lucy Barnsley, over on Anderson, on that funny little corner there, which I can't think of the name of the street. And he was kind of very specifically saying, oh, we love this historic house. And we want to preserve it as much as possible, but also make it work for us. So finding people who think like that would be great. And I think there are homes like that in the West End, in Park, in Twinbrook.

So it would be nice to have a diversity of properties and maybe one or two commercial properties too because I think that's all interesting. The other Peerless property, it's not home. I don't know if they still own it, but the railway station has businesses in it. So just throwing ideas out at this point, but we should kind of try to narrow that down a bit so that we can start actually talking to people about this.

So how would you what are your plans in terms of marketing and locating folks and getting them interested in it, and what timeline would you use? Would we advertise it from h HTC, or would we put it in the Rockville newsletter, Rockville reports? And then this is March for real. So you have April you have, like, sixty days. And so if you're going to reach out to the community of whatever the community is, then we need to start thinking about marketing tools in terms of getting them, you know, involved.

I know at our last meeting, well, our last preservation conference, there was someone there who's really interested in sharing his story about having solar panels or something like that. You know? And so you get that excitement. So so I think we sorta need to and if you're gonna go in different parts of the city, you would def and and plus, you know, whoever's interested, they can set up a time, and we can make it sort of like a tour. Okay?

And set up, like, we will be in $10.02 at 02:00. So that person, that owner would not have to be there all day, but they know their designated time would be at 02:00.

Yeah.

So and we can we can do that. I mean, if you wanna have a bus and just no. You go and you look at different locations and, you know, let the communities know that we're coming and that we want them to be a part of preservation conference. To hang in, but you can

Well, think there's a number of ways we can advertise. But I think because of the time and also because of our desire to make it diverse in terms of the types of places, we should probably get a list from the staff as different historic properties and contact information and then reach out to ones that we think might be of interest to the public in different sizes locations and target those might be the best avenue. And you're right, time is short. We seem to always do this.

That's okay. We do our best.

Yeah. We do our best. I can't remember who was asked wanted to ask a question first or whoever hits their button.

Would call them. Okay.

My concern is if we spread this out across the whole city of transporting people from one area to the next in a short amount of time on a Saturday. If you've ever been on Rockville Pike, that's a significant challenge. So might we maybe want to consider doing one area this year or maybe on two different weekends? I mean, the whole month is historic preservation month. Is there any interest in maybe doing it on two different weekends and focusing on two different geographical areas where the distance isn't so great, we can cover more territory in less time.

Or maybe for future events, we look at several weekends over the historic preservation month. So something to think about.

Thank you, Commissioner.

So my question is I was going to ask, are we going to have like, a keynote speaker? Then the second question was also about transportation. Since we'll be going from house, I was gonna ask, so how are going to, like, move people around?

So the second question so I did reach out. As promised, I reached out to the director general services for the county in reference to a ride on bus, which they hold over 60, and that's definitely an option. The first question, the keynote speaker, maybe at the beginning we could have someone speak, but it might be hard to since we're going to be moving around not one location the whole time. I

think that if you want to have a think about a keynote speaker, We could all meet at a central location. For example, we might meet at the Ray Brick Courthouse or somewhere that would allow us to because you have to have an introduction. You have to have information. You have to share what we are doing. You know? And then you can board the bus. Or, you know, after you finish the tour, then you can go back to that location and then have some conversation afterwards. Because there may be a lot of questions. You know? So it depend on how we set up the agenda in terms of responding to, you know, whatever.

And then if you have a let's say, if someone again, it it goes back to marketing. You know, you can have, like, maybe a church. You could have a school. You could have, you know, like, I think it's the B And 0 Railroad off of maybe next to the metro station, which would be different. So you can have you know, there's some historic sites right here in Downtown Rockville, you know, that we could focus on or just piggybacking on what, commissioner Goldstein said, you know, and not make it so wide so that we wouldn't be able to do whatever.

But if you have a shorter space that you deal with, you could still get your diversity of what you're talking about and and having a presentation there. That might be I don't know if that's what you were speaking of, but, yeah, that's a possibility as well.

Yes. We have to have a place where we'll begin from then come back again. So, like, maybe a place where we can have some kind of introduction. Let people know what we're doing. Then when we go out, we'll always come back to that particular spot again.

Yeah. We definitely wanna come we wanna start and come and end in the same place because a lot of folks may drive to start, so they wanna be right back where their cars are.

And, you know, the other thing that you can think about and these are all thoughts. Okay? Because you asked me to give you some input. So and so you can have folks we can have they call them step ons that you can have person on on the bus who can share the information. And, you know, as we're going to the next location, you know, let's say we're going to

a

church, we could have someone from that church even though there would be someone to meet us at the church to talk more in-depth, but you could also have that person another person on the bus giving us the information ahead of time, and then we'll be you know? And we'll end up with the second person

It's a good idea.

Instead of riding in silence.

So And then we need to have some refreshments. Food. Food refreshments.

That's. If you haven't already, which I don't know if you have, spoken with Peerless Rockville

We haven't, but they're definitely on the list.

Well, because I know, seen from past, that they put together a number of walking tours of historic properties. So I think one thing we want to be careful about is not step on any toes or conversely asking if they might assist in putting together a step tour of historic buildings to assist us spot in putting on this event in May. And they may be willing to do that. So

So commissioner Goldfinger, if I can interject here, we have had conversations with Peerless Rockville about a potential partnership here for preservation month. They were absolutely open to the idea with a few caveats that they already have existing programming on the books for May. So if we wanted to partner with them, perhaps it's taking one of the programs they've already started planning and organizing it and doing, like, a dual branding, a dual marketing effort, have it be kind of hosted jointly by this body and Peerless Rockville. They did expressly say they could probably not take on a net new program in the month of May, just given other activities that they have going on. A few of the things that they mentioned that if this body was interested in a partnership could be options.

They are in alignment with the America two fifty celebrations. They are hosting an exhibit at the Red Brick Courthouse that will open in May for Rockville two fifty, so it'll be a collection of largely images. But there might be some other artifacts there too kind of documenting the past 250 of Rockville's history. They are planning on doing a series of different talks related to that exhibit, so that might be one opportunity. They also flagged that, they have an ongoing, as I believe most of you know, and Glenview Mansion have an ongoing relationship where they do programming throughout the year.

So there might be opportunities to partner with that as well. Specifically, there is an event in May, that's basically a walk through of the building and the grounds, and there would be folks at different locations throughout the building and the grounds to kind of give the public information about it. Perhaps that's something that this commission could support and kind of co brand. One thing that we were saying is maybe US commissioners serve as some of those experts that's speaking to different activities that happened in different rooms or on the grounds. They also mentioned that there is plans for a similar opportunity in September That's not quite as fleshed out, so there might be a little bit more flexibility and creativity there.

But, of course, that would be in September and not necessarily in May. So it's kind of up to this body to determine how important historically, we've done this in May for preservation month, but there's not a law that says it has to be in May for preservation month. So those are just some other ideas this body may or may not want to consider.

I think freeloading off of Peerless Rockville is a great idea. It'd be a lot less work.

And you

want your own identity as well. So

Should I get in touch with Nancy and and see what Sure. And tell her what we're thinking and see what they think. And

Yeah. If she wants to meet, I'm happy to join you guys.

Okay. So

where are we? Well,

you know, what Katie's just said is a little bit of a different direction, which is fine. I'm not I'm not I'm not, so I think talk to Nancy.

And to be clear, staff are not advocating for one thing.

No. No. I I get that. You're just giving us information. I appreciate that. Talk to Nancy. Tell her what you know, find out what they're planning. How find out how in what way she's interested in working together. See what they think about this idea. Maybe this is an idea for next year if we wanna piggyback with them on something this year and then start planning something like this for next year with them if we can. When we have more lead time, that might be one way to do it. I really appreciate all of everybody's feedback. I mean, it sounds like this is something people think is a good idea in principle. The question is how to turn it in, you know, turn it into something that actually works. So and that was that was all I really wanted to accomplish today.

So we'll get back to you know, try to flesh out some of this stuff once we've just spoken to Peerless Rockville and then figure out where to go from there. And so in terms of sharing every things with I know this is always a question with Open Meetings Act, but if we if if Pete and I continue to work on this and then we send stuff to you, you can then share it with the commission. So

That's correct.

Okay. Yep. Good.

And I would encourage commissioners, if you're hoping to send anything over the next several months to all staff, so the three of us here, use the history@RockvilleMD.gov email address. That distributes to all of us. So if I'm out of office, if Sheila's out of office, if Megan's out of office, things aren't sitting in inbox limbo, you'll get all of us at the same time.

What is that history?

History@rockvillemd.gov.

Thank you. I didn't know that. Thank

you. Different from our That's different from the one that that goes to all of us.

That's correct.

You're also on that one.

Yes. We are also on that one.

Alright. That's helpful. I didn't know that either.

And to just piggyback off of what was said, I want to reiterate. We will be very low on staff in May. I'm likely to be out of the office most of the time. We don't know anything as far as as far as, miss Gurbis, whether she'll be in the office or not at this point. We're hoping that Megan will be there, but, you will have some sort of, you know, minor staff report I mean, support, but it will be minimal.

So, hopefully, whatever plans you come up with, we will have them together by April so that we can can, get them going. And so that when there's no one there, everything won't be on Megan, and she won't be overwhelmed by trying to get everything done. Okay?

Commissioner Napal.

In response to that, I think more of the logistics is what we would be needing from staff. And I think that we can carry the load somewhat so that it wouldn't burden because I know that we're having a baby. We're having a retiree. You know? So we understand that we're gonna be short on staff.

But I think the commissioners, and I can only speak for one myself, I don't mind at all working with you to make sure that we have a successful preservation month because I really would like for it to stay in May. And then we can cut down and do whatever we need to do, but I think that because it is preservation month, it gives us more visibility across the state and across the county because other folks are going to be doing something. And I heard what you said about Peerless Rockville, maybe there's something that we can, as commissioners, think about that we could piggyback on. But I still would like to keep our, HDC, project or preservation month planning, ongoing.

Thank you, commissioner. Any other comments, questions from commission, staff, anything?

I want

to add. So are we including refreshments?

Oh, we'll definitely Depending on the time of the day we pick, we'll cater to that hour. Okay. I know you offered to bake and cook. Yeah. But definitely, I mean, we would have refreshments. Staff, did you have anything to add?

I think I did, but then I forgot. You said refreshments? My mind just went so no.

Thank you, everyone. And, Seth, thank you for meeting up, and you've kind of taken the lead. So I appreciate that very much. Any other old business? New business?

Okay. Then may I have a motion to adjourn?

I move that we adjourn the meeting. Second.

I'll second. All in favor? Thank you very much. Thank you very much, staff. Appreciate it.