Board of Public Utilities - Regular Meeting

I'll repeat. I'd like to call to order the City of Riverside Transportation Board Meeting for Wednesday, August 5th, 2026. It is 5.32 p.m. We will start with roll call.

Okay, we'll start with Board Member Luke.

Here.

Board Member Joseph. Here. Board Member Karen. Here. Board Member Corey.

Present.

Board Member Cynthia. Not here. Board Member Oscar. Not here. Board Member Ignacio. Here. Thank you. And Chair John. Here. Thank you.

Okay, we'll start with the statement of inclusion in decorum, and this is a recorded statement.

Pursuant to the City Council rules of procedure and order of business resolution, the members of all Boards and Commissions and the public are reminded that they must preserve order and decorum throughout the meeting. In that regard, members of the Boards and Commissions and the public are advised that any delay or disruption in the proceedings or a refusal to obey the orders of the Board or Commission or the Presiding Officer constitutes a violation of these rules. The City of Riverside is committed to fostering a workplace that provides dignity, respect, and civility to our employees, customers, and the public they serve.

Thank you. My name is Luke Lopez. I live in Ward 1. And we've lived here for about 10 years now. And I was telling the other board members the reason why we got, I was interested in applying for this position was because I stood there some months back and we got speed humps. So that's why I'm here. yeah I think so yeah thank you very much

I nominate John again as that chair.

Yeah, I second that nomination if you need a second for John.

I wouldn't mind working the vice chair.

Okay, well, yeah, hold on just a second. And okay, go ahead and vote.

Okay.

Do I need to start that over then? Okay, this is for public comment. To comment on any matters within the jurisdiction of the Transportation Board, you're invited to participate via telephone at 951-826-8688 and enter meeting ID 92696991265. Press star 9 to be placed in the queue to speak. Individuals in the queue will be prompted to unmute by pressing star six when you are ready to speak. You may also participate via Zoom. Use the link in the agenda. Select the raise hand function to request to speak. An on-screen message will prompt you to unmute and speak.

Okay, there's no callers in the queue.

okay so no public comment moving on to the consent calendar the first item is the minutes from the june 3rd 2026 meeting and i'll give everybody a minute to go ahead and review those if you haven't done so already Okay, so now I'm looking for a motion and a second. For those of you that were in attendance.

I motion for it to accept first.

I second that motion. Okay, we have a motion and a second.

Okay, go ahead and vote.

Okay, motion passes. We have four yes votes and two abstentions.

Okay, thank you.

The next item is to record excused absence of Chair John Walensky and Board Member Joseph Trinh for the June 3, 2026 Transportation Board Meeting. And unless we have discussion, we can go ahead and get a motion and a second.

First motion to accept their absences.

So we have a motion and a second.

OK, go ahead and vote.

Motion passes. We have four yes and one abstention. Did you mean, Luke, to abstain? Go ahead. Can you press abstain then? Oh, no, you did. I'm sorry. Two abstains.

Okay.

Next item is a presentation on the Brown Act. This is a training session.

All right.

Good evening, Chair, Vice Chair. I'd like to introduce Taryn Torres from the City Attorney's Office. She's actually our designated City Attorney, and this is her first time at the Transportation Board meeting. She'll provide the presentation. Thank you.

Thank you, Philip. Thank you for having me, chair and board members. This is a quick refresher on the Brown Act. And for new members, a little bit of an update. There were some changes that were enacted by SB 707 that went into effect this year. So this is kind of an update on that. Again, starting with the purpose of the Brown Act is for public commissions, boards, and councils to do the conduct of the people's business in open ways that allows the public to contribute to deliberations and view deliberations. All meetings of the legislative body need to be open and public, and all persons shall be permitted to attend any of the meetings, except as otherwise provided by law. There was an update, again, in SB 707 that two-way telephonic or audiovisual public access is now required by state law. As you are aware, the city already provides that two-way access via Zoom. The Brown Act creates certain minimum procedural requirements, including the adoption of rules. Your board has adopted rules. They're available online. The update also requires a written policy for handling disruptions, including disruptions for remote participants. Those are handled by the clerk, and there's a citywide policy for that. A meeting includes any congregation of the majority of the board members in the same time place to hear, discuss, deliberate upon items within the subject matter jurisdiction of the board. Except as part of an open and noticed meeting, the Brown Act prohibits the use of direct communication or by personal intermediaries or technological devices by a majority of the board to develop a consensus on an action to be taken by the board. Majority of the board may not email each other to develop a collective concurrence on an action that will be taken by the board. Another SB 707 update is a clarification that informational communications are permitted, including one-way distribution of factual information and even certain social media activity. I will caution board members should continue to treat social media interactions as high risk for inadvertent serial meetings. When a member posts on social media and a majority of the other members begin to comment or express opinions on that item, that can be considered a serial meeting outside of the public and noticed meeting. Quickly serial meetings are a series of communications, but taken as a whole would involve the majority of the board. Does not require collective concurrence to be a violation. City staff are allowed to engage separately with each of the board members. to answer questions and provide information within the subject matter jurisdiction as long as staff does not communicate the comments or positions of the other board members to create a consensus before the items before the open public meeting. Another clarification again is for factual information. It's, again, only allowed if it does not reveal the other board members' positions and does not facilitate agreement on an item. Again, board members can post factual information on social media and even reply individually, but avoid chains where the majority can comment on issues. The public has a right to address the board at any meeting on any subject matter within the board's subject matter jurisdiction. An update does require the remote participation, as I had mentioned earlier. The board can impose reasonable restrictions on the public's comment as long as they do not constitute prior restraints. So things like prohibiting speech that is not within the board's subject matter jurisdiction, you can curb that, as well as a reasonable time limit. Let's see. Members of the public can be asked to fill out speaker cards to give personal information, identifying information, but it cannot be required. And the update also, again, requires the board to allow remote and in-person attendees. Here again is an example of a three to five minute limit, which the city uses a three minute. The SB 707 also requires language access. That's something that, again, the city clerk will address. And I'm sure you're aware the council agendas are also in Spanish. Agendas must specify the time and location as well as a brief general description of each of the topics to be discussed. If a matter is not on the agenda, it may not be discussed or act upon. Exceptions are brief responses by members of the body to staff for statements or questions posed by the public, questions of clarification, references to staff for other resources and factual information, requests to report back by staff, requests to agendize a matter for a later date, and brief announcements. The city of Riverside has a sunshine ordinance that was adopted in 2015 and amended in 2025. This board is an advisory board under the sunshine ordinance. The new requirement for posting the agendas and materials is three business days before the meeting. So that again is a little more time than what's required by the Brown Act, which is 72 hours. The city uses three business days. An agenda can be supplemented 72 hours before for emergencies, to delete a matter, to provide additional information, to correct errors, and to continue an item to a future agenda. So some new rules, SB 707 established some new participation rules, including a reasonable accommodation and expanding just cause for remote attendance by board members. Reasonable accommodation board members with a statutory disability may participate remotely, and they will be counted as in person. They must use a two-way audio and video connection, and they must disclose if adults over the age of 18 are present at the remote location. Just Cause was expanded to include childcare, contagious illness, physical or mental condition, traveling on official business, immunocompromised family members, military service, and physical and medical emergency. Board members are limited to two meetings per year for a Just Cause remote attendance. And you must notify staff as soon as possible. You must also disclose which of the reasons you're using and you have to use audio video connection. So there are a few entities of the city that are required to post more, their agenda with more days, and those are the City Council, Board of Ethics, Board of Public Utilities, the Charter Review Committee, the Citizens Police Commission, Review Commission, and the Planning Commission. Their noticed agendas and meetings are 12 days in advance rather than three business days. You will be getting an update on the ethics code as well, but just a quick reminder that digital misconduct is prohibited. Online activity should not create or appear to create a bias or predisposition on city matters. And this applies while acting in an official capacity and if it falls within the subject matter jurisdiction of this board. um are quasi-judicial proceedings using city official accounts and sanctions are limited to censure of the board member and now if anyone has any questions i'm happy to answer okay well thank you so much again for having me and i hope to see you guys again soon all right thank you very much

Okay. Our next item is the Annual Review of Code of Ethics and Conduct.

All right. We have Abigail Threnau. Did I pronounce that correctly?

You're so close. Threnau.

Okay. She's a member of the Board of Ethics, and she's going to provide the presentation for the Annual Review of Code of Ethics and Conduct. Thank you.

Hi, everyone. Thank you for having me here at the Board of Transportation. We are going to talk about the Code of Ethics and do your annual review for Municipal Code 2.78. Next slide. Okay, so why do we have the Board of Ethics? It's to achieve a fair, ethical and accountable local government for the City of Riverside. Public officials are expected to comply with the provisions of this code and shall aspire to meet those standards for the responsibility of the City of Riverside. So who does that include? This includes the mayor, city council members, and you. So all members appointed boards, commissions, and committees by the city council or mayor. So how do we do that? We do that through, you will get a written statement or you will get this code and you will acknowledge it and that you understand it. And then within the first 90 days of your appointment, you will get a training and then you'll have a city attorney or a designee as a resource to assist in your public officials or public officials in understanding and abiding by the code. All bodies whose members are covered by this chapter shall adopt the rules and procedures. Chairs of each body is responsible to provide the appropriate guidance to the members. And this only applies, this only applies, like someone can only come to you with a complaint who lives, work, or attends school in the city of Riverside. So what do we appreciate? We appreciate and have the core values of creating a government that is trusted by everyone, to make decisions that are unbiased and fair and honest, and to ensure that everyone is treated with respect and in a just and fair manner. So we do this to create a community that affirms values of diversity and then also that our public decisions are well informed and independent and of the best interests of the city of Riverside. We also strive to maintain that we are non-partisan and civic-minded in local government. We also strive to ensure that the public officials are adequately prepared for their duties and strive to ensure that the appointed members of the boards, commissions, and committees attend regularly scheduled meetings. So this is a new one as of May 26th. Digital communications must reflect the city's commitment to impartiality, fairness, and integrity. Online activities, messages, or actions should not create or appear to create bias, partisanship, or predisposition on city matters that fall within the subject matter jurisdiction of the public official and quasi-judicial procedures. So what is prohibited? Please do not use your official title or position for personal gain. Don't divulge confidential or privileged information. or use city resources for non-city purposes. Please don't do any advocacy of private interests of third parties in certain circumstances. Endorsements for compensation, violation of government code section 87100, regulating financial interests and government decisions made by the public officials are prohibited. CERTAIN POLITICAL ACTIVITIES PROHIBITED. DISPLAY OF CAMPAIGN MATERIALS IN OR ON CITY VEHICLES, YOU GUESSED IT, PROHIBITED. KNOWINGLY ASSISTING ANOTHER PUBLIC OFFICIAL IN VIOLATING THIS CODE AND ETHICS AND CONDUCT ALSO PROHIBITED. There's a lot of prohibited items. So also is the negotiation for employment with any party having a matter pending. Ex parte contact in a quasi-judicial matter, also prohibited. attempts to coerce official duties, violations of local law, convictions of federal and state law affecting their office, and then also digital misconduct. These are all prohibited items. So if you guys do something that is on the prohibited list, we and a resident or someone who works or a student of the city of Riverside comes to you, they will do a written complaint and that will go to The city clerk will then make sure that their complaint is valid. Complaints must be filed no later than one year of the alleged violation. And then any filed complaint not in compliance shall be rejected by the city clerk with the approval of the chair of board of ethics. So this is the fun part. This is why I enjoyed the Board of Ethics. This is the pre-conference procedure according to Municipal Code 2.78. So the city clerk has received a written complaint. That written complaint will then follow all of the rules of dates. And then that will come to the Board of Ethics. And that will be reviewed by the Board of Ethics. And that will be put on an agenda for us. We will then do a review, an informal review of the complaint, and then we will make sure that this is valid as the best as we can. And then if the majority of the Board of Ethics determines that the complaint does not comply with the provisions mentioned, then then the pre-conference will end. The Board of Ethics will also facilitate settlement discussions between parties by allowing the parties to convey privately to determine if a resolution can be reached. So at a Board of Ethics meeting, one of the first items in a pre-conference is we say, hello, do these parties want to take 10 minutes to resolve this on their own? They will go and resolve it. And if they want to proceed, then they will proceed. The Board of Ethics will review the tangible evidence to determine if it is relevant. and then the complaint may be verbally presented so the person who is coming to the complaint can verbally present it at the pre-conference procedure and then the board of ethics will determine by a vote whether the complaint has shown that the evidence is more than likely shows that will be taken in totality with equal weight given to both parties If it is determined that the Board of Ethics evidence is more than likely not, that there may be a potential violation of the prohibited conduct, the city... The hearing panel will be selected by a random draw in the Board of Ethics to consist of five members and one alternate. The city clerk sets a hearing date for no later than 45 city business days following the pre-conference. If it is determined that the complaint failed to show that it is more than likely than not to be a potential violation, then that complaint won't go further. so we did the pre-conference hearing and we have found that the complaint is legitimate we will then do a full hearing procedure and so this will happen like i said 45 days after city days after the pre-conference THE PUBLIC OFFICIAL SHALL FILE A WRITTEN REPLY NO LATER THAN 20 CALENDAR DAYS PRIOR TO THE HEARING. THE CITY CLERK WILL PROVIDE A COPY OF THAT TO NO LATER THAN 10 CITY BUSINESS DAYS. THE BOARD OF ETHICS WILL HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO ADOPT THE HEARING PROCEDURES NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THIS CHAPTER. The chair of the hearing panel presides over the hearing. If there is no new witnesses or evidence, then what was submitted may be introduced in the hearing unless hearing panel determines that the complainant discovered after filing. All right. Neither party shall be allowed to examine the other party. However, they may cross-examine. The hearing panel may ask questions of the parties or witnesses. And then upon conclusions of the evidence presented, the chair shall facilitate verbal deliberation of the hearing panel. All findings shall be approved by the majority vote, and the panel shall direct the city council to prepare a statement of findings or designate members to prepare a statement of findings to include the recommendations for sanction of the panel must approve. No members of the Board of Ethics who is in the complainant of the subject of the complainant shall sit as a member of the hearing panel. Neither the complainant, not the public official against whom the complainant is filed, shall be represented at the hearing by an attorney. Although an attorney may be present and consulted at the hearing, the attorney shall not address the hearing panel or participate in any aspect of the hearing. So then if there is a decision that there is a formal complaint and that there is evidence to it and that there is some legitimacy, you guys have the ability to appeal. There are appeal procedures. Would you like to go over the appeal procedures or would you like to read that on your own? Chair, I'm asking you. Okay. Okay. so the enforcement of this upon the finding of the majority of the city council that any public official violated any provisions of the prohibited conduct and no appeal has been made to the board of ethics finding such violations city council may impose any of the following sanctions The elected official may be asked to publicly apologize by an official to the complaint. There may be a recommendation for training, removal from your committee, removal from the mayor rotation, public sensor, or to restrict from traveling to attend meetings and conferences outside city limits. So all of the procedures and pre-conference hearing and appeal procedures essentially come out to these outcomes. The official and then also these as well, which are fairly the same except for referral to the board of commissions or committee of which is appointed the public member censure. You guys need to hear this presentation every year. And then recommendation that the Transportation Board discuss and review the Code of Ethics and conduct for its effectiveness and forward any recommended revisions to the Board of Ethics for consideration. There you go. So all that to say, guys, make good choices.

Thank you. Ranking list.

Citywide signal priority ranking list for 2026.

All right, this is our third new presenter for this evening. I'd like to introduce Ethan Sun. He's our principal transportation planner, and this is his first time doing a presentation at the Transportation Board. So welcome, Ethan.

Good evening, board members. Thank you for having me. Tonight, I will be presenting the citywide 2026 signal priority ranking. The purpose of this item is to provide an update on the city's signal priority list, explaining the evaluation methodology, and request that the board receive and file the report and utilize the ranking list as a planning tool for future traffic signal isolation. The signal priority ranking is a planning tool that helps city staff evaluate requests for new traffic signals in a consistent, objective, and transparent manner. Every year, the traffic division receives requests from the residents asking whether a traffic signal should be installed at certain locations. Because the constructing a traffic signal is a significant investment, it is important that we evaluate each location using the same objective criteria. The ranking system is based on the California Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Device, which is short for California MUTCD. This is consistent with the Caltrans traffic signal variant standards. In addition to this warrant, the city incorporates several operation and safety consideration to better reflect local conditions. It is important to note that this ranking system is a competitive. There's no maximum scores. The purpose is to prioritize location relative to one another based on the overall needs. Intersections are added to the priority list in two ways. The first is based on the residents' request. The second one, when city staff observed operational or safety concern during the routine traffic engineering activities. The current 2026 ranking list including 51 unsignalized intersections throughout the city. These intersections are monitored and updated as new traffic data become available. The ranking methodology combines several evaluation factors. These slides and the following slides are showing the point value for the collision history, pedestrian and bicycle volume, the average daily traffic volume, peak hour traffic volume, post speed, and the distance to the nearest signal intersections. Each factor is assigned a point value and together they produce overall ranking score. This technology allow us to evaluate the intersection more efficiently while keep the same consistent methodology across the city. This is an example of how traffic signal warrant evaluation is performed. The California MUTCD contains warrants that consider traffic volume and the lane configuration for both major and minor street. Meeting a traffic signal warrant is only one part of evaluation process. Engineering judgments remain an essential component too. Even when an intersection satisfies a warrant, additional factors such as safety performance, funding availability, right-of-way requirements, environmental constraints, and overall city priorities must also be considered before recommending constructions. This slide summarizes the top 15 ranked unsingularized intersections for 2026. These locations currently have the highest overall score based on the city's methodology. I would like to point out one special case, which is the first one. The intersection of Victoria Avenue and Washington Street remains on the priority list. It's only for the ranking purpose. Consistent with the city council direction and the city's general plan Victoria Avenue policy, staff is not recommending a traffic signal at this historical corridor. Instead, if improvements become necessary, alternative traffic control measures would be considered that preserve the historical characters of the Victoria Avenue. Although the ranking list identifies locations with the highest relative needs, staff is not recommending construction of any new traffic signal at this time. The ranking list serves as a planning tool that helps prioritize future projects as funding opportunities become available. For many locations, alternative improvements may provide more effective safety and operational benefits than a traffic signal. Staff will continue to monitor this intersection and updating the ranking and traffic condition change. In closing, staff recommends that the Transportation Board receive and file the report and utilize the 2026 Signal Priority Ranking as planning tools for the future consideration of traffic signal insolation. This concludes my presentation and I thank you for your time.

Okay, any questions by the board members? No, it's you.

I think that I heard this before, but can you remind me how many signals do we have here in the city of Riverside? Signalized intersections?

Yeah, for the signalized intersections, we have over 400. 400? Yes.

Thank you. And does that include the ramps, the signals at the ramp locations?

It does not include any Caltrans facilities. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And the one reason I ask that is 14th Street off-ramp gets backed up all the time. I don't know if there's been – I assume there's been communication with Caltrans to try to address that. Eastbound.

Yeah, I could answer that. Yes, we do constantly coordinate with Caltrans staff. Caltrans owns that particular signal and any signal that touches the ramps. We do have direct conflict with our objectives. Caltrans main purpose is to keep the mainline freeway moving and dump cars off of the ramps and into the city surface streets. That's their objective and they control the signal. Our objective is we want to get cars off the city surface streets and dump them onto the freeway. So you can see that we are direct opposites of what we're trying to accomplish and they control the traffic signal. So we are pleading with them and we work with them constantly to forward any resident complaints that we receive so that they're aware of the conditions on the surface street. They do have to work with us. They don't want to. have excessive delays on the surface street either but I you know when it comes down to it I think their objectives are governs our objectives so but we do constantly work with them we've actually met some new staff and we're going to meet with them quarterly is what we've established thanks okay it should be to orderly facilitate the movement of traffic either on or off the freeway or the surface street If there was enough green time for everybody, that would be great.

Yes, I agree. All right. Well, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Okay. The next item is city council actions on traffic engineering related items.

I only have one item to provide an update. A couple of months ago, the Transportation Board recommended approval for the preferential permit parking zone on Larkin. If you guys remember that vote, that ultimately went to City Council and it was ultimately approved. So we do have permit parking on Larkin Court today.

Okay, and then traffic engineer parking services updates.

The only update I could share is that we're working on the Vision Zero action plan for the city. It's the first one that we're developing. Vision Zero is a cultural shift that tries to eliminate fatal and severe injury traffic collisions in the city. We are visiting each ward to promote the project. We've also established a Vision Zero Riverside website. There's many ways to get involved. There's a survey on the website. There's also an opportunity to become a stakeholder on the website. You can attend one of the ward meetings. We're visiting each ward, so there's going to be seven MEETINGS TOTAL AND WE ALSO HAVE THE CONSULTANT VISITING POP-UP EVENTS SO THERE'S A TOTAL OF THREE POP-UP EVENTS ULTIMATELY THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE 10 PRESENTATIONS WE'VE ALREADY CONDUCTED ONE IN WARD ONE IN JULY IT WAS WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF THE WOOD STREETS OR THE NOWS MEETING SO THAT WAS THE FIRST PRESENTATION WE ALSO WENT TO THE RIVERSIDE backpack giveaway and resource fair that was hosted by the Parks Department that was on July 9. It was a Saturday. We had a great turnout. It was over a thousand attendees there. But this plan, once it's fully developed, we're going to bring it forward to the Transportation Board for your review and comments. And hopefully we'll have a blueprint of traffic safety countermeasures moving forward that we can implement and reduce the fatal or eliminate the fatal and high injury collisions citywide. That's the update for.

Are those meeting dates set for each ward? Or do they show up on the website?

We will post them once they're determined. The next meeting that we're going to have is next Wednesday. It's going to be at the airport. So that's ward three. We do work with each council's office to determine the location date and time it's up to their preference that's the only one that's set the other wards we're still working with them and then the other wards we have not established the date and time yet okay is it time specific is it the same time for each one of the meetings or does it depend on where it's going to be held Yeah, I think it's ward specific. Each council member wants a different date and time and location. So we're open to, you know, during business hours, after hours, even weekends. We kind of just work with them.

So you already know there's a Ward 3 meeting at the airport? Yes. Do you know what time that is? That's me.

I believe that's 530. It's their community connection meeting. So it's not specifically for Vision Zero. I believe there's other agenda items on there.

Would you like more information on it, Karen? I can email it to you.

Yeah, I might just stick my head in there. Okay, sounds good.

I can email that in.

I'm going to jump from my house. Yes.

Okay, sounds good.

Next Wednesday, August 12th, 5.30 p.m. at the Riverside Airport. It's the Ward 3 Community Connections meeting. If anybody wants to attend.

And that's it for the updates. Thank you, Phillip. Okay, last item is for items for future transportation board consideration as requested by members of the board. So this is your opportunity to bring up an item that you might want to get discussed at a future meeting.

I think this might go along with what we were just talking about, the zero fatalities and things. There's so many corners that all of the lights there and stuff, there's shrubbery to your left. Say you're wanting to turn right. There's shrubbery at the house to your left. That interferes with your vision to where you have to roll out. Is that something that would be addressed in that zero fatality?

Yes, we could definitely address that. It's a site distance issue, I think is what you're referring to. If there's a specific location that you want us to look into, we could definitely do that. You know, the ward meetings is really, some of the presentation slides are geared for that ward boundary community, but we're doing it citywide. So if there's a specific location that you want us to look into, we can do that. um but just to note legally when a car is making a right turn they can stop at the limit line for the initial stop and then they can proceed forward to inch forward to increase their sight line visibility if there's an obstruction before they proceed so that's a legal maneuver you don't have to stay behind the limit line the entire time and go so

i can think of a couple but in some instances the house is right on the street it's not like there's a sidewalk and then the street in some cases it's actually the sidewalk and then the curb and the curve is that city responsibility if there's something actually interfering with vision and

Yeah, it depends on where the city's right-of-way is. Yeah, if the intersection was built with the house right up to the corner, then that would be private property. And so the city may not have jurisdiction there. We can send a letter. If it's a fence with private landscaping that they could cut down or abate, but we wouldn't be able to do it.

About roundabouts. I know everyone hates it in America, but I don't know if that's an option that we can add some roundabouts in certain areas.

Yeah, we could definitely review it. The challenge with roundabouts is the corners need to be owned by the city in order to make that round footprint instead of a sharp corner for a traffic signal. We do have neighborhood traffic circles throughout the city. We have many of those along Victoria and Park and 14th. But there's smaller footprint. So a neighborhood traffic circle, it is part of our neighborhood traffic management program. We do use that for traffic homing. But it's a little bit smaller footprint than a roundabout. But it's similar. The difference, neighborhood traffic circles, you can actually have a stop sign. and then the circle, whereas the roundabout doesn't have the stop sign, they have the yield signs and their bigger footprint. But we do review those if we have an opportunity to create them right from the beginning and we would acquire the necessary right-of-way at the corners, we could definitely do that.

It would take up a lot of space.

Correct. But they are effective. They're not as popular in America as other countries. But we could definitely review that.

Okay. Hearing no other items, I will go ahead and adjourn the meeting. 6.23 p.m. All right.

Thank you all.