Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Commissioner Francis nominates himself. Um, I would like to nominate Rick. Okay, we have a second nomination of Commissioner Herman. Any other nominations? Okay, we'll close the nominations at this time and then present to the commissioners. um Commissioner Francis to serve as um vice chair for the commission. Uh could we have a roll call vote for Commissioner Francis?

Yes. Are you making a motion? Are we I got to have a motion to have a vote. Oh, we don't have a second though, do we? We don't have a motion either, right? Okay. So, um we make a motion then that we consider the names of Jason Francis and Rick Herman as uh commission vice chair. I don't. So, do one at a time. One at a time.

Okay. So, we make a motion that we approve and nominate Jason Francis as vice chair. Do we have a second? I second. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Now, can we call for a vote, please? Uh, Commissioner Herman. Yes. Sorry. Commissioner Ny, no. Commissioner Dstra,

no. Commissioner Hilton, yes. Commissioner Francis, yes. And Commissioner Anderson, sorry. No. So that's uh two three nos. Two yeses. Wait, no. That's three yes, isn't it? Three. That's three. Three nos. We have a tie.

So the motion doesn't pass. It's a draw. So, let's move on to the second nomination. Commissioner Herman. Motion is made to present Commissioner Rick Herman as vice chair for the planning commission. Do we have a second? I second it. So, we have a motion and a second. Can we have a roll call vote, please? Commissioner Anderson. Yes. Uh, Commissioner Herman, yes.

Commissioner I, yes. Commissioner Hra, yes. Commissioner Hilton, yes. Mr. Francis, yes.

Okay. So, the motion passes and is unanimous. And so Rick C, congratulations um as our vice chair. So thank you. I neglected to point out um we have two new commissioners here tonight. Uh Commissioner Francis and Commissioner Hilton. We want to welcome them and uh they come well qualified to represent the city and so we appreciate them joining with us and being a part of the commission. and also recognize uh Commissioner Nye. This will be her last meeting um as she is retiring from the commission. And so, uh Commissioner Nye, thank you for your service and for everything that you've done in making Riverdale a great place and and looking out for the interests of the city. So, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. All right. Next on our agenda, we have consideration of meeting minutes from July 22nd, 2025 for both the work session and the regular meeting. Commissioners, do we have any corrections or amendments to those minutes? I believe there's one correction as far as the spelling of Commissioner N's name. Okay, we have that recorded to correct. All right. Thank you. So, a motion would be in order for the minutes.

I move that we um accept the minutes from the last meeting uh with the uh correction that has been made. All right. Thank you. So, we have a motion and I'll second that. So, we have a motion and second. All in favor? Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. That passes. Next, uh item D, our action items. We have a public hearing to receive and consider public comments regarding proposed amendments to Riverdale. I'm not sure our new commissioners know they should say yes or no at the end of that. Did you say yes? Yes. Okay. I didn't hear that. Okay. Thank you. We'd had that conversation previously. So, we don't say yes.

I tried to school them. Sorry. Thank you. No, we're good. Thank you for bringing that up. So again, um we have uh a public hearing to receive and consider public comments regarding proposed amendments to Riverdale City Code 1010A-3 retail smoke shops. Um Mr. Cooper, if you would take a moment to give us a presentation for what that involves.

Okay. And then after my comments, uh you'll open the public hearing. Is that right? Okay. Wonderful. Okay. Hey commissioners, thank you very much. Welcome to the new commissioners. Um, as I mentioned in the work session, we'll take this one step at a time and if you have any questions, please stop me. Um, I'll ask uh Michelle if she'll put up the um code language on the TV. I think this should be on your screens as well and it's also in your packet. So, I think this is the easiest way to um to look through it. Uh I think it's on the the last page there. Yep, there we go. So, if you'll There we go. Perfect. Okay. Um, so this is in regards to certain amendments to the Riverdale City Code Chapter 10, um, or excuse me, title 10, chapter 10 A-3. And we're specifically looking at, um, item G there. And, um, in this case, the recommendation is to strike item G in its entirety and to replace it with everything that's in red. And so I'll cover uh both of those. This code was revised in uh June of 2012 and so it hasn't seen any revisions for quite some time. And it's coming um on the heels of a conditional use um permit that we received for a um in this case what is det uh defined as a retail smoke shop under the current zone. And so we received an application uh that uh didn't quite fit our definition of a a retail smoke shop. And so that applicant has requested that we look at this and uh propose some potential changes. And so what you're looking at on this screen is our current code. It's struck through with the lines. uh right now a retail

smoke shop or what we're going to redefine as a um as a uh retail tobacco special tobacco specialty business. Um that use is only allowed in our commercial zone C3. So that's the way that it currently stands now. Um it is a conditional use currently. Um they we only allow one of these types of businesses per 9,000 people. Currently our population is about 9,300. So we have one slot that's open. We had that occupied by a previous uh business and they have um they're no longer in business. So there is an open slot based on the current code. Uh there are some um distance limitations that are in our code but also in the state code and the distance limitations uh apply to um what's called community locations as well as residential or agricultural uses. So currently the code limits a a retail smoke shop to be a thousand feet from a community location. So that's a park, a school, a church, things like that. Um it also limits the location um to a residential or agricultural land use. Um and so that's 600 ft. And so that's currently in the code now. Um, and really the the item that's at at question from the applicant is the um the last bit of the the current code. Riverdale City requires that a smoke shop sell only tobacco and tobacco related products. And so that's very limiting. Um and so we've looked at that to see uh what that might look like, how the state defines those types of things,

uh tobacco related products and drug related products. Um and we've looked to see if we can augment uh a revision to this code. And so again, G is what is currently in place. Uh we're proposing that we uh strike the entire paragraph and replace it with what's in red. Um, so we start with the new code language in red as a new definition. So instead of calling it a retail smoke shop, we mimic what's in state code by redefining it as a retail tobacco specialty business that's consistent with state code. And so now as a person reads our code and the state code, they'll be seeing definitions that match up. I think that's um key for clarity. Uh we're defining that a bit more clearly as a commercial establishment in which the sale of tobacco products accounts for more than 30% if you'll uh next page please.

Is that's 35

35%. Thank you. um of the total annual gross receipts for the establishment where food and beverage products um is less than 45% of the total annual gross receipts and the established uh the establishment is not licensed as a pharmacy. And so that is the def the new proposed definition of a um a retail tobacco specialty business. Any questions so far? So that's the first proposal is to is to clarify the definition and again that's consistent with state code. Um item two is the licensing procedure. Uh so we're proposing that no license be issued or renewed for a person to conduct um this type of a business unless that um unless proof is provided that there's a valid uh permit from the state for a retail uh tobacco specialty business. Again, by mirroring those definitions, it's much easier now to look if the state is licensing the same thing that is being proposed to us. um the local health department um in this case Weaver Morgan Health uh would also have to uh provide a license again um under the same definition and that um that they are licensed in any other special way that might be applicable to that business. So there are some additional licenses that these businesses can have or different types of licenses. So again, our licensing procedure would follow suit with what the state has done under the state definitions. We're if we're moving on to item three, we're keeping the same zoning designation. So, we're not proposing to change the location in which these um types of businesses can be um can be had. So, we're keeping that as the C3

commercial zone and we're also requiring it to be a conditional use. So, that's generally the same. Um, number four, again, we're we're keeping the same restrictions. This is just an area in which we're clarifying and making it consistent with state code. So, 1,000 ft from a community location, which now we're offering a definition of that as opposed to um item G in our in our existing code. Uh we've also added um in addition to schools uh we've made that public, private or trade schools, um licensed daycare facilities or preschools, churches, public libraries, public playgrounds, parks, youth centers, or any other space primarily used for youth and public recreational facilities. that does, I think, go a little beyond what state um what a particular part of the state code uh requires. It is found in other parts of the state code. So, I've just brought those together and made it one clear uh limitation of the thousand ft. The 600 ft would stay the same. Um it would be limited to any other tobacco retail specialty business. In our case, we only allow one. So, um that wouldn't be the case, but it could be um one in which is not in the city. And so, if one is located, um in our city limits and they find themselves to be 600 ft to one that's outside of our city limits, then this provision would apply. And then lastly there in um number four, 600 feet from the from property used or zoned. Generally those are the same thing but not always. Um so used or zoned for agricultural or residential use that's how it is now. That's

consistent with state code as well. Question for you as far as agricultural zones. Is there any rhyme or reason as to why that's identified with this? I think because um agricultural zones have residential uses.

Okay. Thank you. And then that uh bullet point un there in item four um distances shall be measured in a straight line um from the nearest entrance or exit of the of the business uh to the nearest property line of the of the restricted use. And so that's um again making it more clear. So adding some definitive language to what we have to today. Okay. Item number five permitted sales. Again, this is kind of what is at question here from the applicant. Um, so we have again looked at state code and we are proposing that uh a retail tobacco specialty business may sell only the following. So tobacco products that are defined under Utah state code. So they have a long list of things. So we would honor that because again that's what they're getting licensed under as well. And so that's consistent. uh tobacco-reated paraphernalia. Uh any equipment, product or material of any kind which is used, intended to use or designed for use to package, repackage, store, contain, conceal, ingest, inhale, or otherwise introduce a cigar, cigarette, or tobacco in any form into the human body as defined by that state code. So, we're lining that up um with tobacco related paraphernalia. Uh ancillary items. Uh so this is anything that is not a tobacco product or a tobaccore related product limited to um prepackaged candies and snacks, bottled beverages, small gift items, t-shirts, keychains, ashtrays, things like that. Um but it does not include any alcoholic uh merchandise or beverage. Next page, please.

Yeah, that would be like vaping. Vaping, you know. So that's the permitted sales. Section number six is the uh prohibited sales. And so anything related to alcoholic beverages, beer, wine, that that's a separate license under the state. And so we would prohibit that as a um retail tobacco specialty business. Uh any vaping products or any ecigarette devices and accessories unless it's expressly limit expressly permitted by the state code under the license that they have. products or electronics

and then uh drug products or paraphernalia beyond the limited products or paraphernalia that are listed under the state code related to tobacco. So there's a distinction there. Uh we we're keeping in um number seven we're keeping the density limitation to one per 9,000. That's our recommendation to you. And um and it number eight is really a catchall. Meaning that as these um retail businesses come to us uh under the licensing and the procedure of a conditional use, we would ensure that all of the state licensing is um complied with and uh we would hope that the code that is in place at that time would match the state licensing. So that should be very compatible.

I have a question. Yes, ma'am. Can you turn it to the page prior to this? It says that they are permitted to use electronic cigarettes and number and number five it says they can have electronic cigarettes, but then you turn it over to say they cannot on the next one. Can you tell me the difference? Yeah. So unless it's expressly um permitted and so there are some in the state code that are allowed and then there are others that require additional licensing and so there's a distinction there. So they have to have special permission to do electronic cigarettes. So you're telling that they have special permission they can't sell here.

If the state has licensed them to do that then that we will acknowledge that. Yeah. It's a little confusing. If the state says yes, so it all depends on the state. So they have to go to the state and get permission to do it then. That's right. And then that's why number eight is is key. So if there's compliance at the state level, then there would be compliance at the local level.

Okay. Any other questions for Mr. Cooper? All right. Then we would entertain a motion to open the public hearing. I move we open the public hearing for uh to receive consider and consider public comments regarding proposed amendments to Riverdale City Code 10-10A 3 retail smoke shops. Okay. Do we have a second? I'll second it. So we have a motion and a second. All in favor? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Okay. Um public hearing is now open and we welcome the public present tonight that would care to comment on this. So if you'd care to stand step forward, we'll receive those comments. Hello everyone. Could you state your name and city of residence for the record, please? Yes. So my name is Summer Finch and I'm from Ogden, Utah. Thank you.

Uh you're welcome. So I am the owner of Smoker's Choice. Uh we were currently in South Ogden, but we had to move unfortunately. Um, but I wrote something to tell you a little bit about my shop and everything. So, it says, "With over 24 years of unwavering commitment to responsible business practices, I've proudly served my customers with honesty, integrity, and respect, building a loyal following that spans beyond Riverdale. Many customers travel from surrounding cities like Logan, Brigham City, Bountiful, Cisville, and so on just to visit my shop. a testament to the trust and quality service my employees who are all back there uh and I have provided in all these years. Customer service isn't what it used to be in many places, but at my store it's still about community. I know my customers by name and many of them have become family who's all right here. Uh I'm proud to be a great neighbor, a friendly face, and someone people trust to treat them with respect every time they walk through my door. I have always complied with city and state rules and regulations. The health department says that I am one of the best that they've ever had because we do follow the rules and regulations. We have years of awards for not selling to underage kids. I respectfully request the city council to consider amending the city code to allow my shop to continue operating like it has the past 24 years with the wide variety of gifts, drinks, snacks, etc. that I sell. It would not only preserve a long-standing, respected business, but also bring economic benefits to the community through increased traffic, sales tax, revenue, and local spending in Riverdale. My business has proven to be a tested, positive part of the community for nearly a quarter of a century. And with your support, it can continue to grow and serve as a respectful and beneficial asset to Riverdale City for many years to come. Uh, I also got an email from the South Ogden um, Chief Darren an email. Uh, he says it to whom it may concern. I'm

writing to share my department's experience with Smoker's Choice owned by Summer Finch. Smoker's Choice operated in South Ogden City for several years and did not cause any problems. When my department interacted with Summer or her employees, they were always cooperative and helpful. My detectives work with the Weber Morgan Health Department and attempt underage tobacco purchases. When those attempts were made at Smoker's Choice, they were denied every time. I understand changes to the business lease is causing Smoker's Choice to relocate. I would have no reservations if Smoker's Choice was able to stay in South Ogden. Please consider the positive history South Ogden Police had with Smoker's Choice as you evaluate at relocating to Riverdale City. Um, and then I also started a petition uh for people to sign for me to come here. So, I printed off everybody's names and all that. Um, and then their comments for you that they wrote. And then I have 333 phone numbers, names, and emails of people who would like me to reopen because we have been in business for 24 years now. So, I just wanted to tell you that and respectfully ask you to change that code.

So, are you in favor of the code as being presented? Yes. Okay. Mhm. Thank you. Yep. Well, I can see that you would be a welcome uh merchant. Thank you. uh meeting the needs of those members of our community that desire the products that you issue. So, thank you for your comments. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I really do. Thank you. Thank you.

In addition, we'd also like to make you aware that for public comments tonight, we would like to limit those to three minutes uh per per uh citizen so that we can keep the meeting rolling along well tonight. And thank you. you were within that. So, thank you. Yeah. Anybody else? Do we have anyone else that would care to make comment? Yes. I don't know if you

My name is Wendy Davis. I live in South Ogden. I've known Summer for a long, long time. Um, I've got to tell you, it's really handy to have her shop if you're like, forget a birthday and you want to run out and get a last present. You know, she has cute little mugs and little incense burners. Nothing nefarious whatsoever. Um, I highly recommend. I do a lot of shopping in Riverdale as everybody does. It's restaurant row. It's all the shops. I think she would be an addition to your city. Thank you.

Thank you. Hi everyone. My name is Grace Green. I've lived in Riverdale for five and a half years. I have had on a few different occasions depending on my route. I like to when I do my to-do list, I route it out. But 99% of the time, I only purchased my cigarettes from uh summer store because it's not just about someone who has the brand I smoke. I like somebody with a personality that I look forward to going back to repeatedly, repeatedly. and always having that smile and the friendliness that comes with it and the part that I don't know how to put it in words. didn't make sense that she wouldn't be allowed because for Riverdale to be deserving of a good cigarette shop, she would be the best. In my opinion, based on my five and a half years of doing business with Summer, it means the world to me, and I know it does to probably hundreds of other people. the little gift things and the little treats. I've done that myself. I didn't want to go to the grocery store and walk around and walk around and walk

around, especially during the Cword time. I could go in, grab it, and get out. You know what I'm It's appreciate being here and being able to have a voice and being a Riverdale resident. It is really important for us, the Riverdale community, to have a shop where we know we can go and be treated so kindly and like family and thank you very much. Thank you.

Hi, Crystal Ferris from Roy. Um, I just wanted to come today to support Summer. I'll let you guys know that I do pass four smoke shops on my way to her shop and I won't stop at any of them. When you walk into Summer's smoke shop, it's like walking into a family member's home. There's never a time where there's not a smile on the face and a high at the door. Um, having summer in your guys's community would not only bring a business that's going to bring finance financial support to the city, but it's also going to bring a business owner who actually treats their community like family and actually has customer service.

Thank you. I think perhaps we should uh additionally clarify that um the action that we're taking tonight is not necessarily um admitting Miss Finch and her business to be here, but rather to address um the ordinance regarding smoke shops and tobacco specialty shops. So, um, if we could, uh, please include that as part of your comments, uh, since that's the matter of business that we'll be addressing tonight. Thank you,

Will Garner, the old lady. Okay. So, the the biggest thing that we're at why we want the code talk to the microphone.

Biggest biggest reason why we want this code to be changed, there's not a ton of money in cigarettes. There's not we don't it's a very small portion of where we actually make our money. Uh we make our money that keeps us an extremely we're a viable company. We millions of dollars last year in sales but a majority of our sales profit was on everything other than cigarettes. So if we're forced to only sell cigarettes, yeah, we'd be a viable company. We just wouldn't be able to employ as many people. We love our employees. We'd like to keep our employees. We'd like to be a valued member of the community, but that it's got to change or we're we're not going to make as much money and be as as viable. Can we be as viable? Absolutely we can. That is 100%. But we need that code of change to to be that much more viable. Thanks. Okay.

Thank you. Okay, seeing no other uh comments to come forward. Uh motion would be in order to close the public hearing. I propose we close the public hearing. Okay. If we have a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second that. Okay. A motion and a second. All in favor? Yes. Yes.

Okay. Commissioners, do you have any additional comments or considerations, questions for Mr. Cooper? Um, fortunately, we also have Mr. Brooks here with us tonight. So, uh, if we get some really legal technical issues, we can refer to him. So, um, any comments? Okay. Next then would be to consider a motion uh for recommendation to the city council for this u amendment or this action. [Applause]

This is Colleen.

Okay. I move that the planning commission recommend approval of the proposed amendments to Riverdale City Code regarding retail tobacco specialty businesses as presented um based on the following findings. The proposed code amendment is consistent with the Riverdale City general plan, which calls for directing higher in inensity commercial uses to appropriate corridors, buffering sensitive community locations, and maintaining compatibility between adjacent land uses. Uh, the amendment aligns with Utah code by incorporating required separation distances, licensing prerequisites, and state health department permitting. The amendment includes clear distance and density standards which provide measurable protections for neighborhoods and community facilities. The proposed ordinance clarifies permitted and prohibited sales restricting alcohol and non-tobacco paraphernalia while allowing limited ancillary retail items which reduce potential secondary impacts. and adoption of the amendment will improve enforcability, consistency, and transparency in the city's regulation of retail tobacco specialty businesses.

Thank you for that motion. Do we have a second? I will second that. Okay, so we have a motion and a second. Um, Michelle, could we pull the commissioners, please? Commissioner Ny, yes. Mr. Anderson, yes. Mr. Henstra, yes. Commissioner Hilton, yes. Mr. Francis, yes. Commissioner Herman, yes.

Okay, the motion passes. So, that will we will forward that to the city council for their consideration. Thank you. Um, those of you who it isn't necessary to uh endure this whole meeting. So, if you have no other business with us tonight, uh you're welcome to spend your time otherwise, but we appreciate all of you who came in support of this moment of this action. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time.

Thank you all so much. Thank you. Good luck.

Thank you. Next on our agenda is item D3, public hearing to receive and consider public comments regarding regarding proposed reszone of approximately 11.37 acres of community commercial C2 and planned commercial CP2 zones to multiple family residential R5 zone. This property the property is located at approximately 4263 South 550 West in Riverdale, Utah. Mr. Cooper, will you give us a presentation before we open the public hearing, please?

Thank you very much. And we do have the petitioner here, Mr. J.

Okay. So, as the chair mentioned, this is a request for a zoning map amendment, aka a reszone um for some property about 12 and a half acres just behind the crispy cream. Uh and I'll cover exactly where that is. It's three parcels. It's currently split in half with two zoning designations, CP2 and C2, and request for res to an R5, which is a resial zone. Here's a map of that location. I'm sure you know it well. The area is the subject area. So all told it's about 12.449 or 12.5 acres slope here that's also

Washington. Part of what um you as the commission look at is a couple of things and I'll them specifically in a minute, but part of that is what is the adjacent neighborhood look like and is the request for a reason appropriate? Michael,

no. Thank you. Um, is the request for a reszone appropriate for uh the surrounding neighborhood? And so I've provided this map here. Uh, you can see the properties is outlined in black there. And as I mentioned, it is split in half. The norththeastern section as a a commercial two zone and um this the south section there as a planned commercial zone. So essentially both zone currently commercial. The adjacent zoning is important. You can see to the north and west it's essentially all commercial. You're familiar with the businesses. There's Crispy Cream and and all of the newer businesses that have happened there. There's a new street that was punched in a number of years ago. Um, but to the north, uh, east and to the south, uh, you can see that there is compatible residential zoning. The R5 is a is a residential multif family zone, the same zone that is under the request tonight. And then the R110 is a single family zone of 10,000 square foot lots. And it it is contiguous to both zones essentially. Um the other consideration that you will look at or one of the others is what um does the future land use map of the city suggest? And this land use map is a component part of our general plan. The general plan is essentially the Bible of the city, if you will, and it uh is something that was um adopted by the city council. It was revised in 2023. The commission had a hand, a significant hand in making recommendations to the council prior to its adoption. And so during that time and through a bunch of public meetings and and comments, it was determined by

you and the council that the future land use of the city should follow this map. And so if you look in the circle down at the bottom right, uh the um the same property has been indicated as attached residential. And so attached residential could mean a town home, it could be a duplex, anything but a single family home, which is typically a detached residential. And so the request for a reszone to a residential zone, not necessarily R5, but to a residential zone is consistent with the general plan, which is essentially a decision that you all have already made in your past life. the historic use um of the property has actually been residential. So, here's a map from 2013 and um you can see between uh 300 West and um and the 550 to 500 there uh that whole section, the subject property was mostly residential homes. The city purchased a number of those and demolished them in years past uh to make way for something like this, in fact. And so um the proposed use is consistent with the historic land use as well. Okay. So for the sake of the new commissioners especially um let me cover some factors of consideration and then next I'll cover approval standards. So these are just some things some policy considerations if you will um that you may consider as you think about what's appropriate for the neighborhood and how does a reszone work. So the first is defining an edge. Uh creating an edge to neighborhoods is important because um sometimes uses aren't compatible and people want to know uh that they begin in one place and end in another. Uh landmarks think of that in terms of um defining edges. And so um a definite

edge to development and buffering between types of uses should be provided to protect the integrity of each use and um between types of residential uses. So, as you think about this request tonight and whether or not you'd make favorable recommendation to the city council, think about whether or not um having a residential zone in this area um a budding a commercial zone, but also a budding to other residential zone defines a definite edge sufficient to um what you think this neighborhood should look like. Second there, um zoning should reflect the prevailing character. Uh, Riverdale has a unique character, I think, in terms of its evolution of retail um, uses over time. And so there's not one character defining component of Riverdale that you can point to and say, "Yep, that's that's it." But in this case, um, looking at the overall historical use of the property could be a defining character. Um, also defining characters could be um non-tangible things like blending residential with commercial uses in a way that provides easy access and walkability and those kind of things that could be a defining character. So keep that in mind as well. Zoning boundaries um should not cut across individual lots or developments. Uh in this case the proposal does not do that. It reszones um three properties which are owned by the same owner and it does not uh it does cross a public road but that's that's typically okay. Um you don't want to cross property lines and in fact if you go back to this map um the zoning actually does cross property lines. You can see the large 11acre parcel half of it zoned uh C2 and half of it CP2. So a reszone if approved

would actually correct that and make one zone in out of a single parcel or put one parcel in a single zone. Um so in terms of defining that edge uh you can look to multifamily as a good way to buffer commercial uses. Commercial uses are typically more intense. So that means lots of traffic, lots of people, sometimes more dense in terms of the building. um footprints and and how they're laid out. And so multifamily is similar to those types of uses. They tend to be um more dense and more intense in terms of their use. And so as you transition from those types of uses to a low density, low inensity use like a single family home or a traditional neighborhood, multifamily uses, town homes, apartments, things like that, mixed use, those are great types of products to use as buffers. The second to the last bullet point there is avoid isolating neighborhoods. So again, we want to create cohesion amongst um the neighborhoods in the city. We want to start to, if we haven't already, define some characteristics that make Riverdale unique. And you can do that using the land use reszone tool. And um and being careful not to isolate neighborhoods. And this proposal uh creates a new neighborhood that's currently vacant land that was a neighborhood in the past. and I think does a good job uh proposing ways of tying that into the adjacent um uses. And then lastly, uh concepts for neighborhood development and land use designations should really enhance and reflect that traditional neighborhood type of a of a use. We want to make sure that our neighborhoods are working well. um our development patterns aren't

dividing in their layout, meaning there's um roads connect to roads and homes face correct ways and um neighbors aren't looking into the back of a loading dock. You know, all those things are good examples of making sure that uh concepts for development reflect neighborhoods that people want to actually live in. So, those are just um some factors um that are more general. Um, some additional factors that you might want to consider that are more specific to our code would be that um, what is an R5 zone and what's its purpose? The definition of R5 is to permit development of highdensity residential areas that are associated um, with their necessary public services and activities. So, in land use application, we want to try to provide as many zones as the city's broken up into geographic areas and designated for individual land uses. We want to provide for as many as possible, trying to create that cohesion and compatibility as as much as possible. And so an R5 zone is a zone that allows for multi- uh multifamily and high density. And there is an appropriateness for that. Um not everywhere. Um and that's a consideration that you'll want to make uh in tonight's request. Is this one of those places that a highdensity residential zone works? Um, again, it's m it's primarily intended for multifamily dwellings. Um, but there are some other uses uh that could be available not necessarily in this particular request. I'll show you the concept map that they're proposing along with this reszone. But in a typical R5 zone, in addition to multif family dwellings, you could have other things like park and commercial buildings that provide a mixeduse environment. As I mentioned, the uh general plan designates the property as attached

residential and so a general plan amendment would not be um required in connection with um the decision tonight. And so if if you made the decision to make this a favorable recommendation to the council, there would not there would be no need to also amend the general plan because it as I mentioned uh this map here shows it as attached residential. [Applause] And uh based on the reszone tonight, um there is the intent to submit um or excuse me, based on a successful reszone with the planning with the city council making the final determination, there is the intent to um subdivide the property to create a town home project, which is uh this map here. This is a concept project. uh it hasn't gone through the formal site plan review and all the things that are required for site plans. So um don't get too locked in on this. Tonight's request actually has less to do with the site and more to do with the appropriateness of the use. So keep that in mind. Uh but it is important for you to know what the intentions are after you make your decision. And and so this is it in concept. This would be 81 town homes. it would back up to the hillside there. They would front um the the street that comes through and and connects to 550 and and and turns into 500. Uh these would be four cell town homes. Um it would be a private subdivision, so a PRUD that would be managed by an HOA. Okay. So um what are the standards for approval that you all should consider? And this is in um some of your motion language as well. So if you find that the request tonight uh meets these standards, then um then

feel free to make a favorable recommendation and and include these standards. Number one, is there sufficient justification for the proposed amendment? Um we would recommend to you that the justification is established in the general plan in the future land use map um and that the property has historically been residential primarily and so that um to to staff is sufficient justification. You all may uh want more justification or some additional information on that and so feel free to ask those questions if they come up. Um, is the proposed amendment harmonious with the overall character of the existing development in the vicinity of the of the property? If you go back to the map again, um, there is residential to the south, single family homes, and then multifamily to the to the north. Is the proposal consistent with goals, objectives, and policies of the general plan? Um, I would be shocked if you all don't have the general plan memorized. Um, that's a that's a requirement, by the way.

I'm working on it. But, um, get on it. Yeah. Laugh about that. That's funny.

So, the general plan does call for some of these factors that I've that I've talked about. um this defining edge creating mixeduse walkable environments providing additional housing for our citizens that is um that is across all ranges of affordability and and various different types as well. So all of um all of what's being requested of you tonight I we believe does um is consistent with the goals and objectives of the general plan. Is there any adverse um effects on adjacent property? Uh that again, not considering the site plan, but considering an R5 zone that would that could allow a dense multifamily product. What adverse effects could be on the adjacent properties? That could be in the form of traffic, um additional people walking around that might be an impediment to traffic that you would like to flow otherwise. Uh so there's some considerations there for you to think about. Um ha has the uh proposed amendment been determined not to be uh detrimental uh to the public health or welfare of the overall community. This is an R5 zone that's providing housing. Uh I would recommend that that is um beneficial to our community at this point in time, especially housing that is uh town homes are generally seen as more of the attainable side of things in terms of new construction based on their size and their their price points. That's not always the case, but they are starting to become the new starter home. And then one of the biggest questions is the adequacy of facilities and services intended to serve this uh project and the the proposed concept. Um is do we have adequate utilities? Um in this case

there if this concept map was to be considered at a future date or if any other multifamily proposal would be considered then we would look at um utility studies to determine the capacity and and um and demand for our existing utilities. We would look at a traffic study as well. Uh right now we have certain code that makes it problematic for a property like for a concept like this to be approved based on our required minimum street widths and some other things. And so that was one of the comments from our public works director. Um it's difficult to have um have a subdivision like this that um has private streets but public utilities managed by an HOA. So there's some things we'd have to work out if this reszone was successful and if this is the site plan that was submitted based on the reszone.

Brandon, what about water? You mentioned other utilities, but you didn't specifically mention water. Yep. There's an 8 inch line that's stubbed in there already. Okay. Yep. So, the conveyance of water is sufficient. There might be some upsizing based on overall approved density and things. And then as you as you all know, but you all may not, um, Riverdale City requires that new development provide their own water, meaning that they either bring the shares of water with them and and and dedicate them to the city or they buy the usage of water um, based on our requirements through the city contract with Weber Basin. So that would be a consideration for any application for development.

Brandon, I have a question. So when you were talking about the traffic, and I I can see that we all know that the issues with the traffic in there, would there be an a way to adjust that where we could have a a better flow like you were saying on your study with the traffic flow? Cuz once you put that many condos in there, that road right the 550 West, that's going to be a nightmare. With construction and all of the commercial that we have already, we already have an issue with 300 with the Starbucks and all that. And then with Panera and all that stuff out there, it's hard to get in and out of all of that. Yeah. As it is.

Then we come in here with construction and no in and out. So, um, so again, an R5 if successfully reszoneed would allow multif family, not necessarily town homes, but right, so I don't want to get focused on the town homes, but yes, it would it would bring in a higher density um if approved. And so traffic would need to be studied in terms of um number of trips uh where they're going, where they're coming from. uh that we are working with adjacent property owners behind Shake Shack and Panera and Starbucks to get a full connection from Shake Shack all the way up to 300.

That's something that UD do um I don't want to say required because that is a misnomer, but that was something that was higher on their priority list. Um so we're still working through that with the adjacent property owners that will help get traffic flowing in both directions. As you know, you can go out 500 to the light. That's a full movement intersection. So, that's helpful. Um, there is that uh 550 intersection there. That's dangerous. Yeah. Turning left.

And so, so that would be studied based on whatever proposal um would would come about from a site plan perspective. Uh tonight's request is about the reszone. And so, so you go back to these factors of appropriateness really and and you ask yourself, um, there's some buildings in there already, right? Is there, uh, sorry, I'm There we go. Uh, is there adequate facilities, including roadways, to handle a more dense type of a use other than what's um, currently uh,

currently allowed. So, you have to remember it's currently allowing commercial use. And so, the real question is, would a a multifamily use under the R5 bring more people and more traffic than what a commercial use um that's currently allowed would. And we wouldn't know that until we study the traffic. And Mr. Tate can nerd out on that and tell you how that all works. Perfect. Thank you.

Okay. So um so we've reviewed this um in terms of not only the uh the factors to consider but also the the applicable standards and um feel comfortable recommending to you um a a an a favorable approval to the city council. Uh this is something again that was looked at heavily with the planning commission and city council in 2022 and 23. the public was involved in those in those hearings and those open houses and it was so designated on our future Latin use map. So, we feel it's consistent with that. Um, your actions tonight could be one of uh many. You have some motion language to help you there. Um, and so approval um of a of a recommendation, approval with modifications or a denial or a table. So, with that, I'll turn it back to you, chair, for the public hearing. Okay.

Thank you. All right, having had that presentation, let's proceed with a motion for opening the public hearing, please. Okay. I propose that we open the public hearing for uh the re uh the reszoning of the approximate 11.37 acres from commercial 3-2 to and uh I'm planning into what Cath C32 is that we're want to put it into R5, right? That's right. I second.

Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. All in favor? Yes. Yes.

Okay. Our public hearing is now open. We would entertain comments from those present tonight in regards to this matter. Good evening, commissioners. It's great to be in front of you tonight. Jake Tate, 2010 North Redwood Road, Salt Lake City, Utah. Um, I don't know that I have much to add. Brandon did a great job kind of explaining the situation and the the different uh issues that we're going with with the reszone. It's definitely a property that uh you know, I think there's been hope that there would be a multif family product on there and we are looking forward to being able to bring that to the city. Um, so any questions you have, I'm happy to jump in and if you have some traffic questions, I'm happy to address some. Like Brandon said, it's a it's a little presump early without a site plan in front of you, but I'm I kind of have a general idea of the overall concepts. If you have any questions, happy to discuss those with you.

You have quite a bit of elevation on the um south side. I I I think it's the south side of the property. Yeah. Um under the trees. Yes. Uhhuh. how are you going to deal with I mean that has absolutely nothing really to do with our what we're talking about tonight but I'm just curious how uh in your future plans how would that uh how would you handle it that

it actually it it works out really well because you can use the foundation of the the basements as kind of your transition of your grade so you can come in at the bottom level on one side and your front door is on the upper level of the second side so um if it's a if it's a three-story town home you have an upper level you have main level and then you have a basement. You can park in the basement and walk out the top. So, it actually really helps to use the the foundations of those town homes to adjust grade up there and you kind of step your way up the hill. So, will there be access? Um are are you um seeing in the future the possibility of access straight on to 300 West on that north side up there? Not directly from the property. On the south side,

I see pedestrian access. We have a trail that we're proposing that could connect up there, but from vehicular, no, it would be through this uh road that Brandon mentioned that goes behind um Shake Shack and gets there. I think that's been in the works for years, I believe. I think we're getting close. I think we're we've we've been having difficulty uh getting everybody, all the land owners to approve to that. Yeah, but vehicular wise it would be difficult to get a car up that hill. So, we don't see that happening. Yeah, but Commissioner, I do think that question is appropriate given some of the approval standards and the the factors that we discussed because

um multifamily development could have a greater impact on the hillside than potentially its current zoning designation. And so that's something that you'll want to consider. That's not necessarily true. I mean, depending on what commercial use went in there, it could have just as heavy of an impact, but uh there is a a realistic assumption that multif family could as well. So, it's a it's a good question. Okay. Yeah. Is there any homes in there at the present time? No. Was there some homes there at one time? Yes. I keep thinking there were some homes way back in there or something, but they've all been vacated. And you've

Yep. Yeah. They're all They're all done. the city purchased those properties and it was consolidated a few years ago. Um, and yeah, we're looking to it's going to be I'm really excited actually to see the the finished product with those trees up above and we're going to keep as many of those as we can. That's our our goal is to keep that uh hillside as much intact as we can and it'll be a great benefit to the to the development and it's going to look really nice. It'll also clean up that underc carriage. There's a lot of kind of problems up under there that will be resolved as well. Do we have any concerns about that hill coming down?

So, there is some groundwater concerns. Um, there is a lot of water in that hill and there's currently land drains that are installed. We're our intent is to maintain those land drains and to to take that water that is coming out and pipe it so that it doesn't uh impact the basements and foundations. That's part of one of the studies that uh Brandon talked about. We'll be definitely doing a groundwater study and making sure that where the homes are placed and um how we interact with the utilities will be done in a way that will protect those homes from any concerns on that. But that's that's the the main concern is there is water in that hill and and getting it out and around the home safely is our main concern.

So if you determine that through your study that the groundwater will destroy their basement, you will Yeah. Well, not stop the pro. Well, the way the way you deal with that is you put in sub drains. You put in perforated drains around the foundations that collect the water and then it passively goes out and around. Um, and you also would maintain those land drains, which are big perforated pipes that go out and around that are currently there as well. So, they they're currently working. They work. It's just you got to put them in. That's the key.

There may be some areas further down. I know there's one that sounds like almost a waterfall when you get down there right off of the 500 uh 500 West um that uh yeah, some areas may not have homes in them, but we could use that as a water feature or an actual benefit to the community to just a nice area to to be a part of. And that water currently drains into is it that what do they call that that canal that runs uh drainage to the river? I think it makes it there eventually. It gets piped into the storm drain and the storm drain goes back to Birch Creek. Birch Creek's further north. That's what I was thinking. But so it doesn't go into Birch Creek. Okay.

It gets out to the storm drain in Riverdale, wherever that one goes. So And there are homes above us, right? There are single family on the top of the hill. Yes. They would be, I believe, dozens of feet above our even the if we have two or three story, they would be above that by quite a bit. that kind of connects that part of Riverdale City with with the rest of the city. The other part Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have any other comments that would like to be presented for this action? Okay. If none, um, closing the public hearing would be appropriate. So, if we have a motion, make a motion. I make a motion to close the public hearing. Okay. Do we have a second? I'll second that. So, I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Okay. Commissioners, any further discussion on this? I'd just like to comment that I, you know, as I heard the presentation tonight, it seems appropriate uh making this change because it would make a nice walkable community for those people who, you know, if there are homes that are placed there eventually um crossing Riverdale Road, they'll have the light to get help them across and then they've got all of those businesses that um within walking distance that they don't have to drive to. And so that would be a a nice appealing amenity for for those town homes there. So I think

I think right now that area when I've driven back there is kind of a scary area. You know, it's like let's make it nice. Um but I wouldn't walk there now and it is appropriate because yeah, the business it makes that good transition. So

any other comments? Okay, then a motion would be in order if we could have one. I move that we forward a positive recommendation to the city council for zoning map amendment as requested by Jake Tate, AWA Engineering, agent for LMH development, Riverdale LLC, subject to conditions listed in the staff report dated August 26, 2025 and based on the following findings. One, the application has provided sufficient justification for the proposed amendment. Two, the proposed amendment is harmonious with the overall character of existing development in the vicinity of the subject property. Three, the proposed amendment is consistent with the goals, objectives, and policies of the general plan. Four, the proposed amendment will not adversely affect adjacent property or public health, safety, or welfare of the community. And five, facilities and services intended to serve the subject property are adequate, including but not limited to roadways, parks and recreation facilities, police and fire protection, schools, storm water drainage systems, water supplies, and wastewater and refuge collection.

Thank you. So, we have a motion. Do we have a second? I second it. A second. Okay, we have We're really stereo second. So, we have to um could we have a poll for the commissioners, please? Commissioner Francis, yes. Commissioner Anderson, yes. Herman, yes. Commissioner Hilton, yes. Mr. Nye, yes. Commissioner Henstra, I think you said Henstra. Yep. Yes. Okay. The motion passes. So, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tate.

Next on our agenda is item five, consideration to forward a recommendation to the city council regarding reapproval of an expired subdivision plat. Are we not on number four? That was four. Oh, that was okay. All right. Sorry. That was three and four. Okay. Sorry. Again, picking up uh recommendation to the city council regarding reapproval of an expired subdivision plat for the Riverside Flat subdivision located 667 West, 4,400 South, Riverdale, Utah. Mr. Cooper, what information do you have for us?

I have another presentation, believe it or not. Thank you. We'll get that up. And uh we'd like to welcome Mr. Chris Hatch. Uh he's with us um representing the developer now and the land owners. So um that's great. Okay. Um so as you mentioned, this is a a subdivision approval. I'm not sure what the TV's doing. Okay, there we go. It's back there. It's not on mine. It's a plat approval, right?

Subdivision plat. Yep. This is the common RV, right? No, this isn't This isn't the Coleman. Mhm. Okay. Where am I at then? We're on number five. [Music] I got six. That was about five. Actually, right here. No idea. Mhm. There's a connection problem. It's right here. That seems to be better. It's just a real small section. I don't have any. It's a plant. I don't think we have one.

I think we have an extra thing here. We don't We don't have one. Oh, yeah. Right there. a six. But we don't have a five. That's right. Okay. Stay right there. Don't Don't move. Okay. So, you all know this um as Oh, man.

Yeah. So, this is the Leslie's um subdivision. It's um been before you as the commission a number of times. So, let me just read my notes. We don't have a a slide for that. So on August 1st of 2023, uh the city council granted the finalist subdivision plat approval to at the time the developer who was right develop development and uh that approval was effective for one year um until August 1st of 2024. Do we have it? Okay. not moving. Don't wiggle.

There we go. Don't break it.

Okay, so we're back. So, there's the current layout of the property owners. Now, here's the current um condition of the site or roughly. Uh you'll see the yellow line there is property that's actually under construction right now. Uh this is the a site plan that was previously approved by the city council for the Kengarf parking lot. um but it is part of the overall plat and so that's why we need to um bring before you uh and the city council a a reapproval of sorts and I'll explain that in a minute of the of the plat. So, as I was saying, this plat was approved on August 1st of 2023. And as you see there on the on the right side where it's hatched, where it says lot two, that is the property that's currently under construction. Um, but it also facilitated a larger lot which also has a site plan approved on it for some apartment buildings. This PLA again was um approved, never recorded. On um let's look at the dates. Yep. On August 13th, uh you all as the planning commission um granted a six-month extension for the subdivision plat, which is allowed for under the Riverdale City Code 1021-7. So you you did that August 13, 2024. You then did a subsequent six-month approval on January 15 of 2025, and that extended the vested rights of the plat until August 1st of 2025. The developer has um not recorded the approved and then twice extended plat as of August 1st. And so what that means based on our current

city code, if you look there on item number two, um if the approved final subdivision plat is not recorded within one year period of the date of approval, um and in this case, your extensions, uh then um then all vested rights there under will be lost and the um the plat is required to be essentially resubmitted And resubmission means that it comes before the planning commission again for approval or excuse me for a recommendation to the city council. It goes to the city council. Um and there is an additional fee which the developer has has paid. There are many causes for delays. Um some of which are described here. Uh Mr. Hatch is here. He can explain that further if you're interested. I think the key part of this is to understand that the plat has not changed since its original approval. So, it's been extended twice and now expired fully. Um, and so the the plat and all of its details and the original conditions under which it was approved have not changed. And so we feel comfortable bringing it back to you as the commission uh to make a recommendation to the city council without going through um a full-blown plat approval process. So with that um the uh potential actions that you could take tonight are pretty simple. A motion to recommend approval uh subject to uh the Riverdale City Code 1021-7L. A motion recommending denial again to the city council uh or a motion to table

uh at a later date. Any questions? I do have a question. Um I know that uh that we're already working construction on the the Kangar site. Mhm. Since this is all one plat, um there will have to be a separate building um site plan for the the um the condominiums that will have to be approved at a later date. Is that correct?

Right. So, um, you can see this picture shows the current property ownership as of today. Uhhuh. And the the plat would essentially combine those parcels into two parcels, one of which would be for the Kengarf parking lot, which is lot two there. So, the plat divides it. Is that what you're trying? Well, it creates it creates the new lots. Okay. It essentially wipes out these property lines and creates new property lines. Okay.

Um there is an approved site plan uh that's been approved by the city council for the Kenarf parking lot that's already been approved. It's actually under construction. However, they're actually working on land that's owned by Kengarf, which is that parcel closer to the trail, and then land that's not owned by Kenarf. So they're unable to occupy the project once it's complete without a dedic without a recorded plat which is why the applicant has brought it to you today. And so even though they're under construction by virtue of a site plan that's been approved by the city council um they can't actually move in until the plat is recorded and the lot is created. Now, as I recall, the piece north of uh Kerry Cycle was owned by Kenarf and is being swapped out so that it can increase the parking or the the storage lot that they have. It will consolidate all of the remaining trailer park plus the north piece and carry cycle into one unit that will future hold residential of some sort.

There's currently an approved site plan for lot one under the subdivision uh for um actually did it expire? I can't remember. Sorry. the um the apartment site plan. Has that expired? Yes. Okay. So, there was an approved site plan for lot one for the apartments, but it's expired. And there and so Ken Gar's property north of Old Kerry Cycle is granting that to lot one with the ability of being able to increase the size of lot two. That's right. for the parking area.

And Mr. Hatch is here to explain all the nuance behind that transaction if you'd like him to. Yeah. No. Yeah. If you'd care to join us and answer any questions that we might have, please. Good evening. Thank you for having me. Chris Hatch, Salt Lake City. Thank you. So, any questions? Um, basically you've got the development

is as Mr. uh Cooper explained really can't occupy that property or lot two until these boundaries are corrected with the lot plan or the the plat. That's correct. Yeah. Okay. Any further questions? And we don't have a new plot plan out there. Why have we not a new site plan? Is that what you're asking? Site plan. The site plan. Site plan for lot one is what you're asking for. The west side. Yes.

Um, thank you. Great question. Um, I we started the construction on the parking lot because we've have this project's been a long time coming and a lot of familiar faces here. Thank you for your patience with us here as we've been trying to dial in the plan and certainly to the city staff who have spent endless hours with us. So, thank you everyone. Um, you know, it's it's been a challenging time to try to build some of these larger scale projects over the last few years. There's a lot of issues, you know, whether the costs, you know, the labor that goes into the construction materials, etc. And so, and then the interest rate runup, you know, that occurred in 22 was not very helpful for that. And that hurts the back-end values, which makes it difficult to get things appraised. And it's it's just kind of really been a worst of all scenarios, all happening at the same time for a couple of years. And so, we started construction because it was very important to Garf, the way they're running that dealership, to have that additional parking. and we were getting quite concerned as we were moving into the end of the summer months. It's a 10-week process to get the con parking lot constructed and we were right on the edge of, you know, having the asphalt plants closed for the winter time for the cold weather. And so, we wanted to make sure that we didn't go through another winter time where they were waiting for us. So, we started the construction and knew that we would have to be back in front of you to get an extension. And so we appreciate you considering the matter for for us in relation to to lot one and then also that north parcel that's on the uh north side of the um 4,400 South 4100 South, excuse me. Um we are still working through the iterations of what we're going to do there. We've been in contact with staff extensively over the last few weeks trying to come up with a pivot plan and trying to come up with what we think is a viable development plan for the plan

that matches what you know what might work for the master plan here for the area. And keep in mind, um, just to reiterate, despite the future use of the lots, that may or may not be based on what's been previously approved, the subdivision plat stands alone.

And so, it's really based on um the recommendation that we're giving you as staff that the the plat um was appropriate originally. it has not changed and therefore um it's um requested that it's just it's a technicality essentially based on our code and the expiration and so we would u recommend a favorable recommendation to the council based on that. How close are you to finalizing PL uh lot two? Lot two is the parking lot. Are you asking about lot one? No. Okay. Uh lot two because that's that's the one that you're That's right. Sorry. Yeah. That's really critical at this point that you want to get paved before the season ends.

Correct. So, how close are you to completing that project? Yeah, if you've been watch If you watch any of the construction, we started about three weeks ago. It was a 10-week build. I'm sure our contractor gave us a couple extra weeks in there. So, we're probably about five weeks out from being done. Maybe six. Mido October or something, I think. So, yeah. So, we should beat the winter weather hopefully. You know, knock on wood, right? It's always tough. if you want the winter weather for the skiing and snowboarding, but you know, then it's terrible, the poor asphalt. Yeah. So, but yeah, no, we should hopefully beat that and be just fine. Okay. Yeah.

Any other questions? We do look forward to being back in front of you with a plan for lot one and the north lot as soon as we can. Again, we as we step back in to kind of take control here, our intent was to move things forward. as you can see obviously at a pace that we're ahead of the plat you know again here because of it falling out of approval time frame. So thank you. Okay thank you. So if my question is if we approve this then does he have another year or does he have six months or does he have what does uh this will go to the city council um maybe as early as next week and if they give final approval then it will have another year

then another year. Mhm. But but if the plat's recorded within that year, then then the plat's permanent. Right. That's right. Because they can't occupy that lot until it's recorded. Recorded. So it hasn't been recorded. Is that the problem? That's the problem. That's the problem. And so we And so this is just approving the subdivision, lot one, lot two, so that they can ultimately occupy lot one. Yep. Well, actually lot two is what they want to occupy. Lot two. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Is it is to the parking lot? Yeah. To the parking lot. So, they want to approve it. I haven't got my eyeballs on. So, okay.

Yeah. I make a motion that we uh forward to the uh city council a uh favorable recommendation u regarding reapproval of the expired subdivision plat for Riverdale Flat subdivision located at approximately 667 West 4400 South. Okay, we have a motion and I will second it. So, a motion and a second. Um, let's call uh have a roll call vote on this, please. Commissioner Herman. Commissioner Herman. Yes. Sorry. Commissioner Anderson. Yes.

Commissioner Henstra. That's you. I think we lost her. Commissioner Henstra. I'm here, but I can't hear Michelle at all. She wants you to say yes or no. Okay. Yes. Commissioner Nye. Yes. Commissioner Hilton, yes. Commissioner Francis, yes. Okay, motion passes and we'll proceed with that. Good luck.

Thank you. Next is item six, consideration to approve a six-month extension for an approved subdivision plant for Coleman View Estates Phase 3 as requested by Gold Crest Homes LLC. Mr. Cooper, what information do you have for us for this? We have another uh presentation. Sorry, Michelle. I'm a visual person, so I like to have this on the record. Thank you for doing that. Yeah, don't touch it.

Okay. Um so this is another frequent flyer, so to speak. This is um this has come before the commission a number of times uh for legitimate reasons. Um, so the uh Coleman View Estates Plat was approved as a single plat and I'll show you a picture here in a minute. It's in your packet as well. But it was also approved to have three phases. And so as development has occurred over the last number of uh year and a half or so, two years, um the uh development the developer uh Gold Crest Homes and Mr. Stadium Falls is here on behalf of them uh has uh recorded the individual phases as those phases have completed or thereabouts. And so phase three is still unrecorded and because of the original um approval date and the extensions, it is subject to expire and is in need of a request or excuse me, an extension. Uh, so here's a map of um a a recent picture. I'm surprised that the aerials are fairly up to date. Uh, this is the old motor view drive-in that I'm sure you all know and love. Uh, this is kind of hard to see in the in the screen, but um, this is an overlay of the plat. So, you can kind of see how phase three would look.

Is this one, two, three? Yep. I think I think three's up here. Three's on the top. Green red, green, yellow. Yes. So this is two. This is one. Okay. So red is red is one and two is green. Green. Green. Okay. Yep. Three is yellow. So the large and so again um this is three.

This is the entire approved plat with all three phases. One and two have been recorded. Uh three has not been recorded. And we'll go back to this three is essentially everything kind of the northeast part of the property. They are under construction uh of phase three. So the roads as you see it drawn there on the plat. If you go back to the the map, it's it's still dirt, but the plat there shows how those roads would connect and and come about with the new lot. So phase three is the biggest of all three phases. Um it is under construction and um Thaddium can speak to the completion date, but again the phase three part of the plat um is subject to expire.

When you when you said it's under construction, you didn't mean that phase three is under construction, did you? Phase three is under construction. Oh, okay. Mhm. So I thought they had to have a recorded plat before they could They have to have a recorded plat to sell homes. Okay. But the law allows for um certain things that they can put in place that would allow them to uh do construction of of improvements without recording the plat. And that's what they've elected to do.

So here's another map of the plat with the phase boundaries on there. So red is one, green is two, yellow is three. So same code section 10217. If if a subdivision plat um ex extends beyond that year period, then um prior to the year expiration, you're able to grant those six months extensions. Um Mr. Falls on behalf of Gold Crest Homes has asked for um a couple of extensions now based on one and two. And so this would be the third extension to allow for the phase three construction to work to get completed prior to the original extended expiration. And so we did receive that request prior to the actual expiration date of the last extension. So it does meet the code in terms of making sure that the request is made. And so given that we've kind of known about this, we we planned for this process to take place knowing that the original plat was approved but then was going to be constructed in phases. We made this plan of getting extension on a phased basis. Um, and so staff's recommendate recommendation to you would be to grant a six-month extension, which again would just apply to the phase three part of the plat. And that would give them time to complete the work and record it, um, uh, prior to its extended deadline. And so, uh, there's a couple of findings you can make. Pretty simple motion. Uh if you um are in agree agreement with our recommendation then you can make a motion granting that extension. This does not go to the city council. This is your final decision as the planning commission.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you commissioners. Any questions? Do we know why we have waited this long to do the extension? Why didn't they come in before now? Um, they actually uh it's in your packet, but I've I've noted it here. I did receive a a request for the extension in July. Um, and that preceded the expiration date. So, they're in compliance there. It's just a matter of process that it has come before you at this point. So, we knew we were going to get this down the road, right? That's right. Yep.

Okay. And we didn't have this is our first meeting since July 23rd. That's right. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I make a motion that um the planning commission approve the applicant's request for six-month extension of the final subdivision plat approval for the Coleman View Estates phase 3 based on a finding of good cause shown as permitted under Riverdale City Code 1021-7 L2 finding that the applicant submitted a timely written request for extension prior to expir expiration of the original approval. The planning commission finds that good cause for the delay has been demonstrated by the applicant and granting the extension maintains consistency with the city's land use ordinances and follows best practices in neighboring Utah communities. Just as a note, this extension um shall uh expire uh February 15, 2026. Okay, we have a motion.

I'll second that. Motion and a second. Again, can we have Michelle, will you pull the commissioners, please? Commissioner Hilson, yes. Commissioner Anderson, yes. Commissioner Henstra, yes. Commissioner Nye, yes. Francis, yes. Commissioner Herman, yes.

Okay. Motion passes and we're happy to see that that will continue. Good luck. Thank you. All right. Um final items towards the end of our agenda. We have um let me make sure I'm doing this right. Discussion and presentation. Uh Mike Hansen, Hansen Planning Group regarding Riverdale land use code update. Have I got that right or did I miss one? No, you have it right. And if I may pages. So

yeah, if I may take a minute to Mr. introduce Mr. Hansen. So um we determined the need to uh look at our title 10 land use and zoning code about a year ago and um through some discussions with uh Steve and the mayor, it was determined that it was time for us to dig into that. It's been chewed on and chewed on for a number of years. I think our original land use was like 1984 or something

84 or 85. And so we've been kind of progressively and iteratively working on this thing. And all the while life has been moving and it's moving faster than we can keep up with our code. And so a couple of months ago, we issued a request for proposals to the world asking for a team of skilled and articulate land planners and and legal ease people to look at our code and apply best practice to it and give us what we needed to be functional and appropriate and relative in today's world. In my mind, it's a comprehensive redo of the of the entire code. Um, it's not something that we'll pick apart and put back together. It's something that we're going to look at cohesively and comprehensively. And we'll do that together. As I've mentioned in meetings in the past, um, it's a great night for you all because you get to start your life as a commissioner uh, under Mike's toutelage.

That's going to be great. Um, so with that, we'd like to introduce Mr. Mike Hansen and his team. He is the the consultant that we've selected to walk us through this. He's done this for other cities which I'm sure he'll mention and uh we look forward to a 8 nmonth pro long process with him and his team and you all and the city council working together to craft a new code which a will be reflective of our general plan and b shape the future of how Riverdale uh develops. So with that, I'll turn it over to Mike if I can. Hey, is this one? Oh, all right. Mike Hansen, um, Hansen Planning Group. Uh, one thing he forgot to mention in the RFP, it says you have to be like excessively good-looking. So, here I am. This is what you guys got. So, if that's okay, do you have an HDMI or something? I can Well, maybe you have an HDMI. I saw that earlier. Well, while it's coming, uh, this is also Henry. He So, all difficult questions. Henry. Uh, also he meets our, uh, good-looking standard for the company. So, um, you can ask him about how he got that way,

how he got if you'd like. Um, with the Handsome Planning Group, we, uh, you know, realized driving up here, I've got my wrong shirt on. A lot of towns know us as a rural planning group and um, I mean rural community consultants, sorry. Um and uh um we got hired by a number of towns and they said, "Well, you know, we really got to have you just because you know, you're rural and you get us because we're rural, too." And um my favorite one was when Cedar City hired us because they said how rural they are. Rural.

What part of your airport, Home Depot, Da D is rural to you? Because I just came out of Lamington. Anyway, um so we've worked all over the state. Um uh at last count, which we actually did count, uh we you guys might be the 200 or 20st contract we've done in 10 years. Um that is stunning to me. Um but here we are. So, uh I'll just do You were saying we're toward the end of the agenda. Oh, you just beginning. I do have a lot. I have entirely too much I'd love to talk to you about. I'd love to pick your brains and have you just do my homework for me. That'd be great. Um, but knowing that's not really going to happen, I'm going to just pick a couple of things out of this uh agenda. This is my kind of big prompts and questions so I don't get all preachy or rambly. Um, and I know this is meeting number one with y'all, but uh just I I love the introduction and then and thanks again for the willingness to um be on a planning commission. The state also hires us. Um they've been doing this for years to do training for local governments and they really want us to focus in on planning commissioners. And the reason why is because cities do tend to get in some trouble with developers because they don't even follow their own rules and it starts often with a planning commission because you guys might be thinking logically go this way or you know that presentation was really good I should go down this path but your code says go the other way and uh so there's a lot of dissonance that can come out of a planning commission but there's also a lot of really great stuff that can go to uh to the planning commission. And I talk to city council members all over the state and what they'll say is if I trust my planning commission, if I know they actually did their homework, then we can just keep things moving. You know, they they trust the the recommendations that come from y'all. And and that's a a really good sign cuz I know you guys are getting paid just so much money to be on a planet. You get all the good parking spots. I know it's always funny when I say that in every single city I go to. Um the way I want to do this tonight

just because we are going to start digging into your title 10 or your land use code. It's 10, right? Um we talk to a lot of towns so I get sometimes I'll drop the wrong number but um that's our uh introduction. So if you want the way I'd like to do this is um I'm going to run through the point and then I'll just capture whatever you give me as feedback. So what I think I heard clearly heard was um very good-looking. Okay, that'll be good. So these are the notes for my team. So, we're going to go back to the office and we'll go back and and you know take these as marching orders for the next iteration. Now, the what I wanted to tell you um also as far as kind of the and this is maybe the last question, but just something for you guys to think about um before we go tonight, tell us how much bandwidth you all have. Um we would love to give you a draft, you know, in a month. You guys would not love it if I gave you a draft in a month and then said, "Hey, you got three, four weeks to, you know, get through all this and give us all your red lines." Probably not realistic. So, if you want us to give it to you in pieces, or if you want us to just, you know, keep polishing the same thing down, you know, the the top to bottom changes, there's pros and cons of doing that. We've done this so many time. I don't know if there's one right way. So, just make sure I'm working for you. And especially if we've got new members and u members that have seen the light and or I mean they're going toward the light to get off the planning commission. Um you tell us what works for you. Uh I will be uh coming back to you and this is more just for my own in um uh I guess interest. Oh, I skipped already the website. If you haven't Have you seen this website and you've noted that my blue doesn't match your city blue? I have tried to fix that. It just drives me crazy. This is the initiative website. So, it's not a city website. This is our website. If we put something on there that just absolutely makes the world come apart in Riverdale, then you guys can still go to church in the grocery store and not get beat up because you can say, "It's just that weird looking consultant I've got." That's his website. Go look at that.

It's not the officials or the city's official official website. But parts I want to show you because um this will this will be kind of the place that this group goes to frequently. This first button will take you to what we're calling the working draft. Your your zoning code is so big, it's already probably too big. Uh we like to use Google Docs just so people can watch us type, so to speak. Um you click on that right now and it'll pull up a 200 something page Google doc and that's already hard for Google to do. And when we start cutting it up with different edits and changes, it just slows down terribly. So we'll probably cut that into thirds. So next time you look at this, it might be three buttons or something. What we talked about with with the team here is with the public sometimes with Google, it's really great because it's so transparent. We're telling the world here's what we're doing and they can just watch us work. Um the problem is if we let them comment in it as well, then all the stuff that's really edgy or you know the swears are, you know, the mayor just ran over my dog and whatever. Just all that kind of stuff. You don't want that in your document. you need it to kind of be really relevant to the actual code and not tangential, you know. So, what we've asked uh the public to do or what we're going to ask, I guess, is a comment form. Uh so, they'll click on this button, it'll take them to a it's like a one question survey u where they say, "Hey, can you do something about parking or whatever uh in this area?" Or, "I I really think I'd rather have a quiet neighborhood. Thanks." Or whatever. They can send us that kind of stuff. then we as a team will look at it and plug it into that Google Doc. So, they're still getting there and the the public will still see it. It's just as a little filter. Um I had a couple of things because it was a municipal election year. We learned that that might be a better way of doing things. Uh we also think that because you guys have a new general plan and we've heard that you actually had the the community was involved in that, which was two thumbs up. Um we want them

to know where we're getting a lot of our direction from and we're going to pull a lot off of your general plan. Uh so we thought put a link on there. The other thing that we want to just draw attention to is the project news uh tab up here. So if we were to say at the end of this meeting, you guys say, "Hey, come every month." Okay. If we do that then, and that's kind of what we assumed. Oh, I broke your internet.

Is it me? It probably is. I heard I can break the internet. Anyway, um so uh so what we were this is again we can change this but um for tonight's meeting we're going to talk to you about what we saw in your general plan. So that document that we're going to talk about tonight it's been up for a couple of weeks and anybody in the public can come and and take a look at that. Um we've given some public notice because you guys legally have to tell the community when you start an initiative like this. I got you some language. Um we're working on an audit for subdivision code. So since it's not here I might bump it over to the September. I think you kind of get the feel of how we want to do it. We want to give you guys as much knowing you might have a day job or a real life. Um we we just want it really available for you when you're able to dial in and get a look. Okay. Sorry, horse is dead on that one.

I should be. Y

um there is a contact me list. I call this my I can't believe you really gave me your email list. Um I do this on every project. Uh when I did North Logan's general plan, just barely finished that one up. um 450ish 460 folks gave me their email on purpose when I told them on this website I will email you updates on when I'm coming to preach and or whatever come to the planning commission 450 people uh your list is a little bit um premature because we kind of haven't told the public yet but I got one I have one it's probably one of you guys but anyway I do have somebody Oops on that list I don't have my mouse sorry so we got one somebody in the community knows what we're out and they're all excited. Um, but just so you know, as that happens, um, we will keep track of those folks and make announcements and so forth. Um,

how do we initially let them know?

Yeah. So, what we wanted to do is legally you're supposed to, if you're a municipality, you're supposed to do a kind of a weird public notice. It's a public notice at the beginning of an initiative that says, um, dear community, we're going to start this initiative. Don't know really when it'll end, but we're going to talk about these basic issues. Here's how you get more info. Kind of like public notice for a um um the public one my gosh hearing. I just forgot what it was called. It's late. Uh it's like a public hearing notice kind of. Um so we wanted to wait until we had talked to you first and then we wanted to make sure the website's up because I don't want to tell the public, hey, we're going to do this thing. Please give us your attention span. And if they don't have something to act on right then, I swear we're going to lose them. It always happens. It's hard enough to get people to I mean it's really hard to get people to care about technical stuff like code. So anyway, so that not notice unless you guys have done it already can go out I think fairly soon um imminently. Um we can get that out there.

We've drafted it. I don't think we've uh actually noticed it. It's ready to go though. Yeah. So this Riverdale codeupdate.org that's where we can go in and view what we're talking about tonight. Okay. Mhm. Anybody in the community can too. So if you guys get hit with, "Hey, I heard this rumor you're trying to ban dogs or oh, I said the ban dogs thing." Never say that in a public meeting. I said it once. I got mobbed in the next meeting. It was in a little tiny town, Tabiona. I was just joking around. It was Oh my gosh. Anyway, strike that from the record. Anyway, uh they're not going to ban dogs, but if somebody was to ask you, that's what you would do is point them to that. Dang it, I did it again. Um, it's not me.

Oh, okay. It's not me. It's never me. Could we notify all the public on our monthly letters that sent out? Yeah. So, we already have something on the homepage of the website. Uh, there's a few tiles um that announce certain things on the homepage of the Riverdale City website. There's a zoning matters button that if you click on it, it says learn more. It takes you to this um to this project website. So, it's already there kind of informally just living there for people to come across. The public notice will be sent out next week and um and then we'll put it in the newsletter, I think, which is September. Yeah. If you put in the newsletter, I think everybody will receive it. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll put it on Facebook as well.

Yeah. And we've heard that Riverdale actually has a good social media system that works. So, that's great. Yeah. We just wanted to talk to you first before we really get, you know, the train out of the station. Um, another thing that we were we always do with a code project like this, we typically give you a a memo or a report that says how this city's code lines up with uh Ludma. That's the states version of Title 10, which is Title 10. It's kind of weird, but anyway. Um, we were going to give you guys one, but we went through it and didn't really it. It's your code has so much I call it duct tape, you know, like you can see it's kind of like this policy is kind of Frankensteined into what it is today. You can kind of see that in your code, but as far as glaring illegal stuff, you know, at the state level, we didn't really see a whole lot. Um, we found a few extremely minor things like about noticing. Uh, they changed that law, was it last year, and then updated it again. It that's not material, you know. it it's not like you guys are trying to, you know, have segregation or something. Um, there was some questions and I don't know if our team's really 100% done with it, but the airport, uh, the Ogden airport and the Hill Air Force airport, the fact that you have two airports looking at you, that's kind of a lot and we want to make sure that your code is good with that. But, um, again, that's also new statute. So, you know, you're not alone if your code isn't 100% perfect. Um, I've got some other questions later about u transit. That's a kind of a strange one in my mind. I need you to clarify on that. And then the water issue at the state level just seems to be moving constantly. So, we got to make sure that your landscaping stuff is lined up with where the state wants you to be. So, anyway, one report we did finish for you is um the general plan audit. You know, it's kind of our review of the general plan where we're folks from the outside and we look at your general plan and we go, "Okay, if this is what the town

wants to be when it grows up, you know, what do we got to do to this code or what are the topics that we really need to focus on in the code?" That report, oh man, which one was it? This one here um did come up with some things. And I know just for the sake of the the length of you guys have been sitting here um I won't go through every line um but if you could give me a couple of uh pieces of feedback. One is on the moderate income housing planning your plan your general plan sorry talked about that quite a bit. I think it's looks pretty compliant you know the way the state would like you to have it. We tend to recommend to towns even though you guys have that population of 9,000 you know just under 10. Um God, we were doing the housing plan as if it's required for all the towns we work with. Um we don't trust the state to be honest. Um we think that bar at the state is just going to keep getting lower and lower till the finally they just say it's all required. Similar with the your water situation when we write general plans, we're writing them more and more technical on the water chapter just because we think that in the lifetime of that general plan, you're going to probably be required to do it anyway. So, we get into those, but uh just a question to you. Do you if you're familiar with your general plan, um the goals and policies that you pick in and you discuss in your general plan, still solid, still maybe let me back that question up. Uh looking at what was on your your docket tonight, just uh are you seeing a lot of demand for that townhouse product, the mediumish density residential, some multif family? Is that you're seeing a lot of that, but are you hearing a lot of resistance or friction with existing neighbors? Are they saying, "Yeah, not so much." Yeah.

Yep. Yep. We are. Depends on the area maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Your Riverdale corridors seems pretty self-evident and seems like that's where the market's going to keep pushing it. But my gosh, across the state, you're seeing uh that townhouse product trying to be put in every nook and cranny they can get it into. So, um, I know you have a number of zones and we want to look very closely at those density numbers. Um, we're going to want to circle back with you a lot on that issue. I think that we're unique in that we have the commercial zone. So, being able to accommodate those transitional before you hit the the permanent family housing is going to make it easier for this.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree in that area for sure. Yeah. I was sniffing around uh the north part of town today. Um you know, when you come in off 31st, um some of those neighborhoods up there, they're pretty good. They're pretty interesting, but there's still little pieces of undeveloped land, and I wonder, you know, what develops developers look at when they see those parcels. So, um let's see, the only other one, uh the river. Talk to me about the river. What

I I That was an interesting um What was it? that hillside um application that was good timing for our team to watch. Um are you seeing a lot of that? Like is there a lot of demand for that river to develop that or you seeing a lot of demand to conserve that? There's more to conserve that we the river has kind of been you know since I've been here and since Brandon's been here has been placed in a very high focus. That's a big deal to us right now. So, that is one that we want to be very careful of when we look at any kind of developing, both commercial and our residential. Okay.

We have a really big development going south of this building here that will incorporate both of those. But on the other side of the river, we own a couple of pieces. We own some here, too. Oh, really? So, all that's going to come into play with a eventually, I probably won't be here by then because this is a long-term plan kind of thing, but we've really put an emphasis on that to take advantage of that for that exact reason because a lot of cities don't have that. And so, we want to take full advantage of that. That's going to be huge. That that is the key thing. Once you give it up,

you are not getting it back. down in Springville right now with my wife makes me I mean I'm blessed with the opportunity to go with on walks with my wife on our she calls it the nature walk. It's 300 yards long. That's the only part of the river that you can actually walk past. Well, it's the creek, but you know, you can walk that far and then you end at a high school and then you ended a neighborhood. They preserved nothing. It's gone. It's gone. You're never getting a trail back. and she came, we moved from Bountiful where there was a lot of trail and that kind of stuff and we're just spoiled because it was preserved back in the day and you know they still have the housing but they preserved the little corridor and the little access points. That's the nice thing they've done here is that has been preserved.

It sounds like it's been a priority. So it sounds like it's Yeah. Okay. We we assumed it was from the language in the general plan. Just looking at your map, we assumed it was a big deal. It sounds like it really is. It's it's really key to Riverdale because you don't have to leave to go up into the mountains. You can relax and enjoy the river and and being able to do that, I think, is Yeah. is our goal. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's in your name, so we better do something with that. I just as an example, I've got a great grandson who's four years old.

Yeah. uh he came over to you know for uh Saturday and uh I we walked down the trail and went down and played it and got in the river and played in the river. It was wonderful, you know. I don't need a swimming pool in my backyard. I've got the river and it's clean. It's like the Salt Lake rivers, you know.

You know, it's super. That's amazing. I was just coming. I did a little U-turn to, you know, see if I could park in front of all the cops that told me don't park there. Um, there's a guy. He's got his fly fishing pole. I mean, I'm thinking, my gosh, he probably got off of work and lives right there. And then he can come right to a river like this. It's amazing. It's an asset. You got to do something with it. Okay, good to know. That's a big deal. Uh, heard your agenda about traffic. Enough said. We already know. Tell me about this one, though. Um, your general plan had some stuff in there about transfer development rights and egg protection, and a lot of general plans have that. How realistic is it in your just anecdotally how and maybe you don't want to answer this out loud but to to preserve agriculture keep it is it a high priority is it just kind of like we wish but we can't uh we another I guess it's an advantage and a disadvantage but we're almost grown out too

um we again have some properties down here but those are part of this river development that will be all inclusive of that it may not I wouldn't see a lot of agricultural properties left by the time we get done if we are able to develop that. We're hoping there's there's a few out we uh South Weaver Drive but but even those Rick we is a on a long-term plan. We're looking at some of those things. So I don't see them lasting forever. They're just not as aggress. But with the cost of land right now and the value of the water that goes with it, right?

I know. I just don't wonder are you going to try to fight the fight? It sounds like you're going to try and you're going to know that you're not going to win. Sorry, but that's how a lot of yoursized towns are. They just they love to say, "Oh, it's quaint and I love to feed my neighbors horse a carrot when they tell me not to." You know, that kind of stuff. I want my kids to walk past the pasture. It's not going to be here for long. It won't there won't be much. some of the land that Steve's talking about will be inevitably restricted by the the hill. Yeah. The restrictions. So there might be hillside stuff and some other stuff that can't have um viable development. That'll probably be the remnant of the agricultural.

Oh, okay. But not like a big deliberate a protection strategy like like a park city type thing. No.

Okay. Okay. the rest. Um, oh wow. Yeah, I almost Sorry, I'm trying to go fast if you can't tell. Um, the transit oriented development and the bus rapid transit. And this is where you tell me the gossips you've heard, the gossip and the rumors you've heard because we've heard that you're actually on the list, the 2040 list to get that bus rapid transit that will go up Riverdale Road and there's consequences if that thing comes in as a fixed guide. Um it's not fixed fix like light rail but it's bus rapid transit which is our understanding is the state considers that as if it was light rail. So you got to do a certain kind of planning around those stations. Your plan kind of talked about it but it didn't go into like deep dive on it. Tell me where you're at on bus rapid transit.

Yeah we've never heard that river that's that's news to us. Um what? Okay. Riverdale Road, however, is projected to reach its maximum point in about 3 years. So, yeah, we're already busy and it just keeps getting worse. At some point in time, we're probably going to have to look at some. Our preference would probably be bus routes more than a transit system because we don't have a lot of room and we can't make we can't take more traffic I mean lanes off of Riverdale Road. That'd be a nightmare. So, it's already bad enough. I don't know how they're going to pull that one off, but I agree. buses would be our preference. So

yeah, I think that what that's what this is saying. So this is your 2040 what is it? The RTP the regional transportation plan. They're showing um a the red line I think is supposed to mean bus rapid transit. They don't have a great legend. Um and they've got it serving Riverdale up here. And the thing that I just didn't understand, that's why I wanted to ask is you've got these phases one, two, and three. So soon and not really soon and Yeah. Right. Um, that's that's a technical engineering term, but those ones that would serve this area are the phases one and two, which means before 2030. That's why I thought, what really because your general plan had a paragraph and these guys are like, oh, within 5 years, you'll see less rapid transit. It makes a huge just it makes a very big it can make a very large impact on your land uses. one right behind BYU. Uh that road was already too tight and now they're trying to cram another lane just for the bus with bus stations that you swerve in and out of the traffic. It's all over the place.

They've done that on Harrison Boulevard. Yeah, the one up and down or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think Uhhuh. Yeah. And I there was one other Oh, Washington P. Yeah.

All right. Well, I think what I'm hearing is tread lightly, do more homework. That's what our team will do on that one because that is partly a general. Well, it's not even a general plan. You're supposed to do station area plan funded by the Wasatch Front Regional Council. It It's a very different egg, but I didn't see one of those when we were talking and I didn't know if you guys had even done it or if it matters or if that's just a pipe dream. I did used to work for UTA, so sometimes we would draw lines on maps and this was forever ago. um that didn't really become a train but uh you thought it would was a good idea at the time. So I don't know if that's where that investment was going. So I will do definitely do more homework on bus rapid transit.

We have talked about um how to connect effectively the Roy front runner station. Um Oh yeah. Okay. And so, uh, UTA's talked to us about, um, it's a new acronym, but it's essentially a UTA Uber, um, micro, what do they call it? Micro, I can't remember. It's a, it's a UTA, um, on demand type of a, uh, ride share. And, um, that's their last mile solution around front stations that have that lack that connectivity. So, that's kind of their answer to our transit.

Interesting. Sorry, I just realized you all probably can't even see that. Uh, okay. Well, good to know. All right, so there isn't like this document. Oh my, we forgot to give you this like here's our three stationary plan plans. Like you guys haven't done that. Um I the reason why it's I'm going to have to make sure we get this one resolved because I actually measured it out. They they say it's if you have a fixed guideway, you know, like a light rail station or a bus rapid transit, then you kind of know where the stations are generally going to be, but you have to have a specific land use plan where they're trying to get you to put a lot of housing density and employment density around there. It's within a quarter mile. I started to measure it out. A quarter mile radius off of Riverdale is the bottom corner of Target. So, if you take that into a circle and you go all the way up, I don't know if you can see my mouse, but there's a lot of Riverdale Road planning. Like, that's the whole thing. So, I didn't know. I thought this is either going to be a big deal to this town or they're just not really loving it. So, all right, I'll keep moving. Uh, very interesting. Um, infrastructure issues. Um, general plan kind of talked a little bit about it. Uh big issues, little issues.

Uh what did I hear earlier about the water? Do you have concerns about any kind of specific utility or infrastructure? Water. Water's obviously a big concern for everybody, but uh we get our water from Weber Basin, who's a separate taxing entity, and they allow us to buy water from them that we in turn sell it. And that's what we were talking about earlier. That's in our code now. We make that mandatory. They either bring us the water shares or they buy the water through us. Okay, good. Home run. Yeah, I was hoping you were going to say cuz if you didn't, we were going to come and, you know, beg you to do it. No, I think we were one of the early ones to jump on that band.

Okay, good. Good. Um Oh, you had some stuff about graywater that was kind of new um in your general plan. Big deal. Not a big deal. I don't know that we have much of that. We don't we don't have a secondary water system. Okay. So, that's that's an issue as well. Um, as far as actual infrastructure, we try to keep up on that per I mean, we're always making improvements. I would say overall we're in pretty good shape. We've got to make there's a big development going up on the west bench and we've got to increase a sewer line coming down off of that to to hook into the main sewer line, but that's all been planned for and it's in the works. So, okay,

most of these things are taken care of. even our water to move the water up under that west bench and things. That one development alone up there is going to bring any anywhere from 5 to 7,000 people just on that west bench. So, we're getting new bridges put in right now, but it's going to add more traffic onto 4,400 in Riverdale Road. So, it's going to be crazy.

You guys need a train. Just kidding. I did not say that. Um, general plan talked a lot about mixed use and that you might want to even change your map as a city. do the app you you guys are your own applicant um to amend your map a little bit for mixed use. How much do you like your as far I'm sorry you guys first meeting how much do you guys like administering your your mixed use? Is it pulling teeth? Is it kind of work? Does nobody even try because it's

we we don't have a lot of mixed use in our city right now. We're, you know, trying to hopefully lean that direction and especially along the the um uh the river um construction area there. Um we want that to to be mixed use, but yeah, we really don't have a lot of mixed use in our city right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The plan had these uh if I remember, you had like two big overlays on, but they were big big. Um maybe I'm not remembering that. Maybe I'm blending that with your airport one, but uh Okay. Well, we'll look at that for sure. I mean, we're going to look at all the zones. I think your neighborhood across the street there where the print shop is now and stuff like that,

there's somebody looking at uh doing some mixed use in that area, too, wasn't there? Along along that road, we only had one designated mixed use. So, it's the brown area there. Yeah. The rest of it is uh you know, there's an overlay option. Yeah, the overlay one. Yeah, it's really not been applied. Okay.

So, I agree that we do want to see more of that, especially as Riverdale Road redevelops and our large parking lots um kind of go by the wayside. We're going to have a lot of land opportunity, really some of the only land opportunity uh along Riverdale Road. So, mixed use is going to be a key there. We're hoping in the future as we go forward to uh um change the way Riverdale Road uh uh is the the way that the businesses are along Riverdale Road. Um we know that's always going to be an artery.

Uh but um but it it's yeah, we want to we want to change it to something that's a little more appealing, a little more attractive. Sure. I think that's the is that is that am I saying that correctly? So your mixuse overlay zone if it was perfect right now it would it would give options right for for different kind of mixes and you like vertical and horizontal I guess like same site um but yet still have some design standard it sounds like and boy it sounds like traffic too sounds like that is just kind of a common thread. Yeah, traffic is because Yeah,

because we have that one major artery going through the the middle of the town. And that's that's part of our problem here is that we have two major arteries, 31st Street and Riverdale Road, but we don't have anything south, you know, so even Yeah. eventually something south to help spread that out. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I if I had a time machine, I I remember 20 something years ago, I was working with um South Salt Lake. I don't know if you're really familiar with it, but like 21st Southish to 33rd South, that kind of corridor. And they said, you know, if we're not careful, that commercial is just going to gobble up all our neighborhoods. It's going to take all our character away. And now it's 20 years later, I don't even go there because the commercial has eaten everything. So, and it's not great. Sorry. It's

commercial with some character. I keep forgetting. you guys take notes and stuff, so I got to be a little more reverent if I'm going to ever get another job. Anyway, um okay, good to know. I I don't want to dwell on that too much. Your your general plan was um it was pretty clear. Uh I will say that when we do the notice, we should say land use code and potential changes to general plan. I think that's how we wrote it for y'all. Um I I don't know if you're going to want to have the appetite, but there might be a few parts of that general plan we're going to want to maybe update or tweak. So, I was wrong, Mike. Um, we actually did notice the intent on the 20th because Michelle is usually a mile ahead of all of us. Um, I think we said general plan. Yeah, you probably did.

Yeah, I always say and general plan just in case you do need it. Yeah, I think we will. I think we anticipated there'd be some tweaks just because it's going to be there will be some differences. Mhm. Okay. All right. Well, if not, we can just notice that as well. Um, other things. Sorry. Uh, housing a I'm not taking notes because I just realized it's 8:20 and I keep bumping this cord. Sorry. Um,

I just don't know if I should try to fix it. I tend to break things. The new one is on its way.

Stop touching things. you guys are the first ones uh you know your first meeting you probably didn't see it but we did ask city council members you folks uh you know public works folks just we call it the internal survey that's the other reason I didn't want to go too fast with the public notice I wanted to see you know what do you guys think I and and I nickname you folks as like the folks that actually look at the map you know like normal residents mortals uh call them what you will but they don't really get into the details So, I like to do two surveys. I first ask you guys who come here once a month and do this um because you might have a different perspective and I want to make sure I find that in the haststack of all the commission the public because the public will typically say can't we just have no taxes and tons of cops everywhere and you know that's what you're going to expect from a a public survey. Um okay so I just want to show you just very briefly what we learned. Um it we one of the questions we asked you uh and and the reason why it's important for us to go through this I was thinking of using very similar questions that we surveyed you with asking the public just kind of changing some of the basic verbiage but basically what are your frustrations and these these are not surprises to us that it's feels outdated and it's feeling like left-hand and right hand maybe aren't talking to each other in this code with 200 something pages that's very likely some of the language might be a little um has a lot of and it came to pass in it. You know, like maybe we need to not make it so complicated. Um but then this last one, need to reduce the interpretation conflicts. That's what we like to do. We like to look for those because we like to make it just written at the eighth grade level so that it's really hard to misinterpret what the intent of the city is yet not paint you in such an absolutely strict corner that

you can't you know have the real world come and make something happen in your town. So that I hope that's not big surprises. Um but we did hear about that. Um we asked about specific changes you might want to see in the conditional use process which we hear from every single town. Conditional uses are just a pain. So we understand we will try to see what we can do with those. Um is your attitude and appetite on that is maybe less conditional uses generally. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean I know you kind of can't get away all the way from them. I had a little town tried to do that and that they got into it. They go, "Well, what about this and what about that?" And next thing you know, we had another dozen in there. So we stepped backwards on that one. Um your landscaping stuff that is a big deal. Um we we got to look at that. I I I would say strategically while you've got the code open, you know, the hoods open on your car, let's look at your landscaping because the water stuff, like I say, I just believe my gut says that the state legislature is going to keep banging that drum uh with water. Um recreational vehicles, um it's so complicated, you have to have a grown-up interpret it. I love that. That's totally true. Um simplifying or consolidating zoning districts. How many did we see in you guys have like wasn't it 20 something different land use flavors uh in your zone? Do I remember that right? Yeah, you've got a bunch. Um that was one of our questions is what if we maybe combined a few or you know if there's a way to do that and it makes sense. Everybody pretty much says yeah good luck but

I'm not really sure you know how to do that. We're going to see if we can figure that out. um talked about mixed use and aggre um beautifying the city is tricky. Uh yeah, we got some more than one comment about that. I think you can do a lot with new development. You can do some stuff with code enforcement, but I don't know what the Riverdale budget is, but code enforcement is the problem. Every town has struggles with it. They just they don't have the resources to have a zoning cop drive around and make sure the fence height's just right. Um, but you know, you got to we're going to have to have that conversation about, you know, enforceable standards that you're going to put into place because you cannot be putting out a policy that you can't enforce. We got to be really, really careful about that.

Uh, and that one was pretty cool, that last bullet there about shared parking. Uh, I do want to look into that, too. Um, we are looking at your subdivision process. I don't remember. Did we finish that? We probably did. Yes. Okay. He knows about your subdivision stuff. anything in particular with your subdivision, like big burning stuff you can't wait to see changed? You probably did do it last year a little bit. I don't know if you finished it, but uh anything really specific to subdivisions like to see different? No, I I I know we're, you know, shrinking the size of roads and, you know, things like that, but uh,

you know, it's all all stuff to to try to give more land for development. A lot of that's coming at the state level. Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to make a decision when they don't give you a choice. Um, we we came up with a few questions here. Um, do you still like the process of a preliminary and a final? Uh, not so much. Okay, good to know. Yeah, cuz for single family and two family and what do they call it? Townhouse and uh, yeah, town hall, multif family, single family. Yeah, you can have a faster process. The state would like you to have one. And our subdivision um, codes were updated with the last major change. Okay.

So, we actually had a state grant that we hired someone to do. So, it actually made it three to eight pages longer. Um, okay. You mind if I pop? I was going to say quick, we uh This is Henry, by the way. Good looking guy.

I think this is this might have been Mike's son, Jacob, who kind of came up with this whole process, this revolutionary approach to a lot of the subdivision rewrites we were doing last year. But as I was auditing um here in Riverdale, I noticed that you know you have a a whole process for the single multif family and you know all the all the uses that were changed under the recent um changes that stay made and then there's the uses for like mobile homes and I mean subdivision uses that I I hadn't even heard of. Right. And what we've seen be effective uh with a lot of other clients is to really streamline everything and put it all under one process and one umbrella, especially if you don't anticipate you're going to have a lot of subdivisions here in Riverdale that aren't single family, multif family, or town homes. And obviously um when it comes to things like mobile homes and whatnot, there's still some additional provisions and whatnot you can put in there to address those things directly without having to have a whole separate application process which could

really just cut the pages down quite a bit. And then a quick note on the design standards we were chatting about. Mike was telling you earlier, we're kind of writing the um and if this isn't Hansen planning doctrine, just, you know, just correct me and kick me out the pull pit, but uh we're contracted with the state to write some of these manuals or journals or or guide books, maybe even coloring books, right? I don't know what we'd call them, but the way I like to do it,

you know, some training material for folks who are on planning commissions and who work in municipal leadership. and I'm working on the pro I'm working on the section of that project right now that's about enforcable standards and writing in plain language and I came across a case study that we're using in Woodland Hills in Woodland Hills I mean beautiful part of

kind of down by Oakidge Spanish for work super pretty place right but in this case study there are these folks who um sued the city because their neighbor who had been granted a building permit and then started building um they were arguing that their neighbor was violating the city's design standards. Well, you know, they litigate it. It goes to the Utah Court of Appeals. It's this years'sl long um you know, legal process that was probably not very cheap for the city or for those people who were you know, litigating the issue. But it all really boiled down to the fact that um the people who were suing the city were arguing that the city wasn't enforcing, you know, the right slope and that the the homeless folks were building was just too high. And obviously with the airports, there's some pretty strict height regulations, but like we were talking about with landscaping, things like fence height, things like that. Um, I'm finishing up the memo that we're going to send y'all later this week. And so, just be thinking about some of those things. We're going to include some questions for you on that memo, especially with regards to some of those design standards or landscaping. How much of that do you really think you can enforce? Do you want to enforce? How much of it would you rather say, you know what, let's pawn that off to the HOA or the community association. Let's focus on these core these core things, these core tenants, and let's make it happen. So, I just want to plant that seed for y'all

um as we send this doc later this week so that you know be thinking about that because we obviously want to solicit your feedback and make sure we get it right for y'all and and for your city. So, good things. Yeah,

good things. So, we will Oh, dang. That was me. That one was me. Oh, yeah. Good timing. You made my whole computer my computer clap for you. Um, okay. So, um, we will we will look at your subdivision even though you probably updated it. We we we did 87 86. I don't know. We did a third of the state of their subdivision codes. So, we got pretty good at Henry did half of them. Um, so we're pretty familiar with what the state will buy and what it won't. But what we're seeing now that it's been, you know, 8 months after the deadline and some of the subdivision applications actually have gone through some towns, they kind of anyway, they might want to rethink what they did before uh just to be compliant. Towns we worked with and other towns as well. We're just kind of keeping our finger on the pulse of that. So if yours isn't perfect, it's not your fault. It's blame the state. That's all we do all the time. All right. Got to keep going. Um we already talked about the survey. Oh, okay. Let me ask you about this. Um, so impressed you guys are still with me here. This is something we use when we do um a large project. And this is just a template. I just wanted to show it to you. See if you guys nod your head like, "Oh, I want that in my life." Um, when we give you a 200 something page redlinined document that will suddenly turn to 300 because of our red lines and such, you might not want to read the thing top to bottom. And so we call this our policy discussion catalog because it sounds really grown up. Uh, but all it really is is a table that just says in this part we did this, right? That's what that second column is. And then our discussion is maybe a question to you or feedback you all give us. And then this last box, we like to look at it as, you know, say we come to this meeting next month and we bring all the subdivision stuff to you. If you make a decision like absolutely not, no, make it go away. We just mark it red. We leave it on here, but it's like a crib sheet

where we know that issue is done. Stop touching it or it's done. Yes, go with it and quit bringing it up because you there's so much stuff you could talk about with land use. We want to be able to consolidate it so that if you only read one thing, it's the cheat sheet. You can always go back and look at how we found a typo or something. But this is supposed to be like the big policy stuff that we need feedback from with you guys. It's another document. It's great. But, uh, is it going to be helpful or do you really just want the raw red lines? We can do either one. I vote for the the shortand. Okay. Yeah. Me, too. Me, too.

Agreed. All right. We will do that. Um, and I already stirred it up with the bus rapid transit. So, my last question to you all is how frequently do you want to hear from us? Um, not I haven't been eavesdropping on your agendas very much. Do you have a lot of public hearings that take a lot of your time? Do you How fast are you going to proceed? Because I think that that's going to be

Yeah. Well, it sounds egotistical, but our team can always go faster than our clients can because we can write it, but then we have to get all seven people basically to sit here and read it and give us their comments back. So, we can push pretty good. We originally talked about this project going like clipping along quite well through the end of the year, maybe January, February done. Um, which is really nice and aggressive. I like it personally to go faster than slower just because you guys have your attention span. We have our attention span and the shorter it is, the more we're going to stay this stays at the top of our list. You know what I mean? So, uh, that's just our preference. But again, if we overwhelm you, then all of a sudden the project dies. You guys don't invite us back. So,

I think we're okay. I mean, I think the key is just to do them smaller amounts more frequent so we can push it along that way. our calendars. This one was a heavy load tonight. Wouldn't you agree for a planning commission? Yeah, they're generally not that big. So, um, we would have time to get it in and then still get it to the council. I mean, that calendar, those calendars have been fairly light, but I mean, we don't want to get bombarded with it, but if we did a little bit more frequently, it'd probably be a smoother transition, I think. And maybe if I give you that uh summary sheet, that would help you guys understand, okay, this meeting I'm only talking about these five, seven things, and Mike's not keeping me here an extra hour. So,

so um question for you. We we meet twice a month every other Tuesday and um in some cases we cancel right um some of those meetings. So we were thinking Michelle and I were thinking that maybe in during those times to stay consistent that we actually have a work session and not a regular session and we just use the work session time cover this to cover all. I think that's a good idea. So, what that means is we'll be meeting every Tuesday despite an agenda. I'm down with that. Is that cool? I like that. Twice a month. Is that what I heard? Or I'm sorry. Every better Tuesday. Yeah. Planning Commission and council twice a month. So,

yeah. If we're going to hit that deadline, I think you guys are going to want us up here more than less. So, yeah. The sooner we get this done, the better, too. Yeah. I know, right? and and your development community is going to appreciate that too because as soon as they understand we're actually opening stuff up, they're going to be really watching what you do. And if it drags out and the public forget about it, if it goes more than a couple of months, the public just thinks they did their civic duty and they're never coming back. And yeah, it actually goes not great if you the longer it goes. Um just because they the sometimes we've heard feedback from the public that they say, "Geez, what are they doing, man? They've had this thing open forever. They're doing all kinds of shenanigans." And if you just say, "No, no, we came in. We cleaned it up. We're just trying to, you know, make it modern or something."

So when you come, if you'd bring us or provide for us an outline prior to our meeting. Yes. And ask questions, then we would be prepared to bingo. We if you just come blind to us, then we Here's a fire hose. How thirsty are you? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Know that's what we wanted to do and that's what we use the website for as well. We'll start populating that with links, but you'll also get them in your inbox. So, hopefully you just get it one way or the other, but we want to give it to you at least a week in advance. Give you a chance to and if you'll bring some cheesecake or something. I was waiting for waiting for the crumble cookies. I like where this is going over here. Okay. All right. I get it.

Can I just ask process-wise either what most cities do or what you recommended? So, are we going to be adopting different sections a little bit at a time as we go or are we going to compile compile and then do a big one at the end?

We've done both and and that's just a solid question. Um, we've done both. When we do an entire code book, like all your titles, public safety and whatever, animals and stuff, we really just think don't try to do this in one meeting. That is ridiculous. um you know, nobody's going to have read the whole thing and the public's going to be just completely overwhelmed. Um when it's when it's your land use title, it's similar, but we're on the fence. We've been asked to do both with towns. Um it's a little harder to carve it up. I just the reason why I'm just thinking like definitions, for example, I love to consolidate definitions into one place. So, as we go and maybe three meetings down, we find new definition, we have to go back and amend it. So, or maybe you guys Why don't we put together a schedule? We'll come up with a proposal on that because I kind of like the idea of maybe if we even broke it into thirds or something like that. Not maybe monthly, but bite-sized pieces. Um, let me see if we can come up with something like that because yeah, a title 10 at the end is

it's still a lot. It's a lot to go over. So, and and and you don't want to be on the record going, I don't even know, man. I just whatever. I you know I mean we'd love to be done with the project but uh don't tell the public that you just overwhelm a uh house of representatives or they spend two days reading the material and exactly and then they tell people that they didn't read it. Okay. Anyway, um that goes in our training material. It's like please don't tell people that. Uh okay. Well, we will work on a schedule um if we can break it even into half or something so that you can we're not talking about 10,000 pages or something like that. Like it's not a federal budget.

So, yeah, I can't even keyword search it. Um but we'll we want it to be logical. Like maybe we can pull subdivisions out or something and or maybe the approval we could do some preliminary work here where you hold your public hearing, but we don't necessarily send it to the city council quite yet. I don't know. We'll work something out. But knowing that you're meeting twice a month, that's great. That that helps us a lot. We assume you might take Thanksgiving off maybe. But other than that, yeah, we'll be here. So, the city council has expressed some interest in not having whether it's thirds, half or one, just not having it arrive at their desk

and have to make it take action that night. So, in in sequencing these meetings, yes, with the commission on one Tuesday and the council on another Tuesday, we might want to have work sessions with them about the same information that we're talking to the commission with um before it goes to them for action. That way, they feel like they've participated in its creation instead of just being asked to adopt it. Absolutely. Love it. Yeah. If you can get them there, that's that's going to be great. Yeah. I don't know about that, but who won't tell? We'll just put it on the agenda. They won't even know. Any information you're planning on going over with us if we could get that a week in advance. Sure.

So that um we have time to take a look at it because a lot of us have some don't but some of us have full-time jobs that we work and outside of the planning commission. Yeah. Saturday for me. I know repair packets both for the planning commission. Michelle does all this stuff and she tries to have all that compiled so she can put it together on the Thursday before the meeting. Thursday. That's what I was thinking. Like Thursday. Mhm. Most usually send it on Friday, but I get it. Wait, we tell you Thursday. So,

yeah. Yeah. Tell me Thursday. Don't tell me the Friday thing. Yeah, Wednesday. It would be great if you just get us your report by Wednesday. It's fine. If we've got that frequent of a cadence with y'all, then it's fine. You know, even if something doesn't make it in their packet. So, okay. Great. You want me to quit talking? Probably. Okay. Thanks for the letting us come up. Uh we really look forward to working with you. Um this is going to be a fun little project. Uh we'll keep trying to stir up rumors and make things difficult for everybody. But uh more bus routes. Yeah. No more Stop saying the B- word. Okay. Thanks, guys. Cable back. Okay. Um,

do we have an update from community development? Anything that's going on that you we need to be aware of? Um, given the time, I would say no, unless you have any other questions. Only Nope. I don't I don't know the rest of you. I I do have a question. I have one question. Yeah. Opening date for Trader Joe's. Nothing yet, but getting close. Okay. Just keep praying. Okay. Shooting for October. Yeah, we have our fingers crossed. I did get a report back, I think, from the mayor. Somebody went over there today and said, "Oh, it was Woody." And said, "It's looking good. It's coming." We were there just a couple weeks ago and so close. I think October is a realistic possibility.

Awesome. We're not going to promise that, but but it's looking good. We'll have them. I noticed the Walmart trucks are now making their turns at Maverick. That corner that is a mess. Anyway, that's where Walmart's coming down Riverdale Road and turning there. They're not doing the other way. But I keep thinking, why don't they go down to where go down to 700? Yeah, 700 where the where they're supposed to be. where the car wash is coming in the back way because that's not nearly as busy as Yeah, we can talk to them. We just with 4,400 being out, it's messed everything up

cuz a lot of them are heading down um down north that way and they hit that bridge and they some of them are too tall and send and then they can't turn around. That road's too narrow. It's just turned into a nightmare. So, we're trying to get some signage to help direct them different ways, but if there's a particular place, we can at least talk to them and see. Walmart's usually pretty good about working with us. But, yeah, I just I just happened to notice that they weren't coming down our 4,400 anymore. They're coming down Riverdale Road. Can't come down 4,400. They're going to end up on I-15 now. So, there's no bridge there. So,

two quick things. I'll keep it under a minute. Um, ebikes. We need to have some kind of uh for on the trails or on the street or everything street. On the street that I live on, I had a kid doing 30 passing the cars on the street going down the sidewalk. He's beating the cars on the sidewalk. On the sidewalk going faster than traffic. This is one of those that we're going to have to look at just because it's getting more and more popular. We're getting more and more of them on the streets. So,

and if there's anything along with that at the same time that that we could mention electric scooters and and those types of things as well, if we could include all that something there, all that goes into one kind. Ebikes are now required to be registered and have be insured. And I don't think people realize that. I'm 62. Second thing, still have contacts up at America First. And you didn't bring it up, so I will. The roundabout up there is open. Go around the circle and just keep going around today. Thanks. Okay. I move that we adjourn.

Second. I second. We got all in favor? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. See you, Colleen. Bye, Colleen. Bye. Good job, everyone.

So, did you time that ebike on your How How'd you know it was going that fast?