City Council - Regular Meeting

Well, good afternoon, everybody. We're going to call this study session to order. This is a joint study session with our Youth Commission. I want to welcome all of our members here today. Thank you for joining us for this. This is going to be covering their, looks like, final report, looking at e-bike policy. Thank you for all the work in advance that you have done this year, and we're looking forward to hearing your insights and what you're going to share for us. And I'm sure we're going to have a lot of questions, but as we get going, I'm gonna turn it over to Megan DeMoss as our staff contact for this and let you take it from here and facilitate.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. All right, so I'm happy to bring the Youth Commission here to you this evening. They've been working on this since November and they've been really excited and done a great job. So we'll go through this real quick. I'm just gonna give you a little background on what they've done and then I'll turn it over to them. So when they came back to you a few months ago, they talked about their three key concepts, connection, education, and safety. Since then, they've been researching, doing a survey with their peers, talking amongst each other to kind of figure out the main issues within these areas and come up with some ideas of how they could be addressed. Go to the next slide, please. So this included learning about the issues from public safety, legal perspectives, they talked with the bike shops here in town, just looked around at riders and did a survey with the youth and the public and also a trail tour. So next slide, yep. So their goal was to compile information relating to e-bike use, safety, and education, and to put forth a suggestion for a policy and campaign on e-bike regulation. So they're here today to bring to you their final reports, and I will turn it over to Liz to start us off on talking about the safety concept. One tap.

Thank you, Megan. Yes, Akoi, Eason, and Liam and I have really been looking at safety. And our biggest concerns off the top of our head were really just like lights. So obviously people can see you. So we were thinking headlights, rear lights, and helmets was a big one for sure. We were looking at different... like shrankness of helmets for a while, seeing like what would be the most, what would keep you the safest as well as also being the most practical for young writers or even older writers. And we also looked at reflective clothing. as well as just age restrictions and requirements for bikes. As we learned in the previous meetings, there's different classifications of bikes. So we took that into account when coming up with are recommendations for ages to ride them. So for example, for class one, we didn't feel the need to have necessarily an age requirement because we feel as though when riders are wearing the recommended gear, they should be safe and Yeah, class two, we did feel should have a little bit of an older audience. So we thought that was 12 and above as well as they should have taken a safety course to try to get to know a little bit about the difference between a class one and a class two bike and what class two entails as well as just to keep themselves safe on those. And then for class three, We also had a big jump in age. We believe that 16 and older is a good recommendation for riders riding that type of bike because, again, it is another jump in different modifications on the bike. And we also believe that there should be a safety course required so riders also know the differences between Class 3 to Class 2 to Class 1 and how to keep themselves safe. whether it be on the road or just in everyday places. Yes.

Question.

Yes.

Can you explain what class one, class two, and class three mean for us, please? It's what? Oh, it's there. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Sorry, I did not get down to that. Okay.

It's not on there. No, that just says the same thing that's on there.

Oh, okay. Yeah. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I just think a review on what the difference is between class one, two, and three would be helpful for us. We haven't been as entrenched in this as you guys have.

Perfect.

I'll turn it over to Bayla.

She has it in her notes.

Okay. So a class one is pedal for assistance and it can go up to 20 miles per hour, but like barely can barely get there. And then class two doesn't have pedal power, but it has a throttle and that goes past that exceeds 20 miles per hour. And then class three, um, I think I wrote this down wrong. I don't know. It says only pedal assistance, no throttle, 28 mile per hour. I don't think that's right. Is that right? That is right. Okay. Okay.

Do you know? What's that? Class 3.

Class 3s tend to be the ones that are kind of your e-motors.

And they're like electric dirt bikes almost, so they're easily altered and they're more dangerous.

I know you guys have a lot to go off of here, but are there easy telltale signs? You mentioned pedals, but if we're looking at them, if RPD's looking at them, are they able to easily tell just from the street if it's class one, two, or three?

I mean, I can't speak on behalf of the police officers because I haven't been around necessarily all of them, but I believe there is quite a difference between Class 1 and Class 3. For example, Class 3, we were talking about how they look closer to emotos. They're kind of more – they can either be really big and bulky, or they can be tiny and compact, which makes them faster. And when they're bigger and bulkier, I believe they have more of the – technology to make them go faster as opposed to class one it's like your regular just town bike that you kind of see that has pedals and just doesn't go very fast but it's kind of like a technology assisted more for like a convenience purpose as opposed to like a speed and like yeah hurry purpose okay great yes other questions on this follow-up council

Just to make sure, the class one, two, and three, that follows the Washington state guidelines for classes. And then class three is not, you can't have that on just any sidewalk, right? Class one and class two are for sidewalks and roadways where any bicycle could go. And then class three, you need different, correct? Yes, I believe so.

I'm not quite sure if class three is... Can I pop in for just a quick moment?

So class one, two and three, those are the legal devices that can be on the roads. All three of them can ride on the roads. Their recommendations today do not address the non-legal emotos that are not included in those classes and are legally motorcycles. Our recommendations, those are already not street legal and we're not going to address those because they're not legal. So there are no recommendations for those.

The question I had, Class 2, what was the speed on them? 20.

20.

Both of them. Class 1 and 2 are 20?

No, Class 1 is up to 20, and Class 2 is above 20. Oh, above.

And then Class 1 includes pedals, while Class 2 is throttle-based. Okay. Yes.

Okay. Great. Other questions on this portion, Council? No. Thank you for clarifying. We can move on. Oh, one more from Council Burkle.

Am I correct? All e-bikes can be ridden on sidewalks?

All the ones. These three classes? Yes, all these three classes can.

Thank you.

Never mind, not.

Double checking, Consular Davis.

Yeah, and so only class one have the pedal and it's got like power assist, right? Two and three don't have pedals.

All of them have pedals. In order to be a bicycle, they have to have pedals that propel the bike forward. The differences in the acceleration between one, two, and three is that one, you pedal and it makes the bike go faster and that can go up to 20 miles per hour. So it's a pedal assist. Two, you have a throttle. So you can pedal or you can push the throttle and that will go up to 20 miles per hour. Three, you have pedal assist, but it will go up to 28 miles per hour.

Okay.

All right.

Above 28 miles per hour is not a legal e-bicycle. Okay.

All right. Thank you. I think we're ready.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, if we're done with safety, then I'm going to hand it over to the... Sorry. No, you're good.

Thank you. Just a question on safety. I'm 13 years old, I'm riding an e-bike, I'm on a sidewalk, and I crash into a woman pushing a baby stroller. Who's responsible?

I probably wouldn't... Probably not the best one to ask, but I would say if you're riding an e-bike on the sidewalk, you need to be extra aware since no matter what, like I know for driving courses, the first thing is always watch out for pedestrians and like always yield to them. So if you're riding an e-bike, you should be yielding to pedestrians and like maybe saying like, oh, on your left, on your right, being aware. And that's also with like lights and stuff.

So that would be me. In the unfortunate event, someone riding an e-bike strikes a person in a sidewalk, where does the financial responsibility lie? Any suggestion, or have we even broached that subject?

We haven't necessarily talked about that, but I feel ultimately it should lie on The person with the bicycle, because we yield to pedestrians and just people on the sidewalks. And if there's a bike lane, you should be using the bike lane anyway. But let's say there wasn't a bike lane. Ultimately, people should be walking on the sidewalks, so you need to yield to those people.

I guess to maybe reframe it differently, would an e-bike be treated differently in that situation than a regular bicycle when somebody had that collision? I guess that's probably the root of the question, right? Yeah. Is there a difference?

Well, it depends what class, like we said, because class two and three were saying that we should, we're recommending a course for those. And so obviously if it, If it's a two or three and they have taken the course, then it should be treated as almost like a deadly weapon because they have been trained in that sort just as a car.

Oh, so it's like a vehicle. Okay, all right, thanks.

Okay, other questions, council? Okay, I think we can move on from safety and go to education.

Okay, so me, Kenley, and Audrey, we're on education, and education is obviously a big thing because if you're going to have the laws, then you've got to educate people or else what's the point of the laws? But definitely, there's lots of different ways that we talked about. We're going to educate them on the new laws and like, the different safety, and, like, what the safety talked about, and the different classes of e-bikes and stuff like that. Um, the different places that we're gonna educate is, like, through, hopefully, the City of Richfield page, like, Instagram and Facebook and stuff, and, um, like, lots of different places in the schools, because it's mainly teenagers riding e-bikes, like, um, bulletin boards and TVs, and maybe, hopefully, um, either, like, city council members or police officers coming into classrooms and educating, if that's a possibility. Definitely at like city events and stuff like that too. But yeah.

Councilor Hamilton.

So of those methodologies, could each of you kind of speak to one that you notice or that has been impactful for you, even outside of this arena? Like, how are you interacting with those education pieces personally?

Well, I would say, do you mean what form has reached us for? I would totally say just the people coming in and talking, because that's how I heard about I would totally say just by word of mouth and just by having the presence to inform and to kind of guide children, as well as just the simple posters and bulletins. When there's a bunch of kids walking in a hall, you necessarily don't tend to just look at the floor. You kind of look up at your surroundings, and when you see posters on the wall, when you go to the water fountain to fill up your water bottle, there's a poster right there. Those are definitely just hotspots to reach children. no matter what school, whether it be high school, middle school, the elementary schools.

I also, I'm chronically online, so social media is a big reaching factor. Like all the stuff I learned about the city, I learned from the city's Instagram or Facebook page. And so I think especially with the older youth who are using e-bikes and will be impacted by the different education requirements that they may need, that social media would be a great outreach process to get to them.

Thank you. When we talked about safety and having a class requirement, in the process of building education and safety, did any of you identify a class that these people would be able to take? So if you were doing social media campaign or any messaging to students, they actually had somewhere to go to check out where they could get these classes done?

So we looked online. And there were classes, but they were like $60 and so in this we kind of talked with megan and we were talking about maybe having a team put together an education or having it required through a health class at school like adding that. to the curriculum in some sort because I mean, I remember stuff from health class. So I think that would be a good outreach and a way to get there. And then also I think for me, the biggest one that I thought was good was like the posters set for each age group. So like having a different poster for the high school than the middle school, because there's different classes that people can ride and different than the elementary school, more focused on those certain age groups and their likes and wants and everything like that.

Other questions? Yeah.

From a timing perspective, we can't really move on any of this till we formally adopt, correct? Correct. Okay. So, I mean, you guys have two weeks left. So in terms of our school outreach, I mean, I would suggest that we probably hit the social media element a little bit harder. I mean, I think that the school outreach would make sense, but if we want to, especially if we decide to move on this, take action, we probably want to do it before summer hits, but I'm not sure in-classroom outreach is going to be our friend with 10 days of school remaining, and we haven't adopted anything formally.

I do know that even though, yes, we only have two weeks left, the posters and bulletin boards and that sort of thing that are not in classrooms is a great idea because the clubs are starting to dwindle down and everything that takes up space on those bulletin boards and such are starting to slowly go away or be done with their... season or whatever so it does give us like we might be the only poster on a bulletin board and that might get someone to draw their attention because that's the only thing to like read when they're filling up their water or something like that you are okay perfect well with that

Hello?

Oopsie, I thought it was on. Okay, with the outreach of social media, what is the likeliness that we would be able to kind of like set up some sort of like city event? So if we like put up a post just saying like come to Abrams Park, six o'clock, come speak with some of the city council members, come get your kids educated, just kind of talk and if you have questions, we can answer them. What is the like... likeliness that something like that could be set up in like during summer or just sometime after these posts are made or is it just going to be like some sort of like education piece like is there can we like I guess what I'm asking is are we able to set up a sort of event like are you guys free to do something like that yeah absolutely yeah we could and if we if

If your strong recommendation was that that was necessary and then this council felt like that was necessary, then what we would essentially do is incorporate that into whatever action we take and then direct staff to kind of plan it accordingly. So obviously we do have to be mindful of the fiscal impacts of whatever we take on and what we do because we want to make sure we're lean with something like this. But I think the outreach component and the education component are highly necessary to make this successful. Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yes, sir. Megan, do we have a TikTok?

No.

We don't. I mean, this might be where we have to open one, I guess, because that's what the youth like.

It is what they like.

Okay, other questions on either side at this point? Okay. Do you have more on the education piece for the presentation portion?

I believe that's all.

Okay.

Okay, so this is our connection group. It's us three and then Connor and Connor was a very big part of this. Unfortunately, he's in Atlanta for nationals right now. But what we talked about was we did a survey and we asked one of our last questions was where do you want to see more connected? And a lot of it was going from neighborhoods to parks or connecting the school to to other places and stuff like that. So our biggest places that we wanted to connect were downtown to Pioneer and up to like the Rosars area because there already are trails set in place around there. So if we got that trail set up, then it would connect everything else. And then also was the... was Royal Road, right?

That's where it is?

Okay, Royal, because that's a dangerous road, and I see people walking there. I see people riding there, so it wouldn't just be for bikes and e-bikes. It would also be for pedestrians walking, and if we got that, then it would set up this triangle connecting Abrams Park in downtown to the schools, to Rosar's, and then we also had across the freeway because that's also a dangerous place where people like to ride. And I've seen a lot of people there. So those were our three biggest places that we wanted to connect just for convenience and for safety in those. Yeah.

I just want to add something with the one that's going across I-5. We also felt that that one was a necessary one to put up there as a high priority just because we know that the new elementary school is going in like right there and there's also a bunch of new like developments and neighborhoods all in back in there and there is at this rate there is a sidewalk that goes across that bridge and but people drive very fast on the sidewalks on the roads and the sidewalks are very skinny because they're on a bridge. So that one might take like a little bit more work to get a bigger path and more accessible but to connect the one side to the other side is a big priority.

I'm trying to figure out what exactly you're communicating here. Because when I look at the visual, the map here, you have priority connections outlined and park areas outlined. But AJ, to what you were just saying, across the freeway, it's red. So what does red signify then? Is that still a priority connection?

Those colors are just showing the different trails. Those weren't... we just colored them to show like this is a different trail that we, or trail or like sidewalk, like multi-use path that we need than a different one. It's not that one is like specifically more dangerous. Like we do feel that some are higher priority, but yeah, the colors are just to show that they're different areas.

So you said you based this off of a survey. What did, did the survey ask what common routes most people take on their e-bikes. Did you capture that data? Like is Royal Road or Abrams Park to looks like 35th or something like that, is that an area where people have indicated that's where we ride most frequently anyways and that's why that's a priority route or is that just where it seems like it's easiest?

Um, we had a question on there. It wasn't like, where do you ride most? Um, but we did have a question of where do you want to be connected? Cause personally I would not ride any bike, um, down from like the high school to Rose hours just cause of that big hill and like the road conditions and everything. Um, but I would love for that to be connected. Um, so that I can get, like, I live behind the middle school and I'd love to be able to get to Rosario to hang out with my friends or something. So we were more looking at what they would want to see so that they can use and why they would want to see that, more of where do they ride originally. Okay.

And then, did you guys, in your research, consult RPD on anything of, like, stats or areas that they're seeing more usage, more injuries, more anything like that, more... Anything like that? It's okay if you didn't. I'm just curious.

I believe it was brought up a couple times, but I'm not necessarily sure if we took the next step to actually communicate and ask.

I just have one comment. You're tapping in to our transportation plan. We have plans of upgrading railroad. We have plans of putting another overpass from Par Lumber across the freeway so people wouldn't have to navigate the traffic on Pioneer. And so everything that you're asking for is actually in motion. And it will take a while to get it done. Not a long time. We're in planning. We're in engineering. right now, so it's happening, but you're coming up with the right ideas.

Well, then that's great.

In the PowerPoint presentation, it mentions a trail tour. So what did the trail tour consist of, and was there anything of note that you saw, captured, had an idea about other than the priority areas?

We visited the areas around Rose Hours, and we walked the trail around there on the sidewalk and through the strip mall in that area. And we saw some contradictory signs and a few things that made it very difficult for someone who isn't educated on how to use it, for someone to cross the roundabout, specifically the one behind Rose Hours. As you can see on the map, it's the one going from the I-5. No, not the I-5. Where is it? I don't know where it is exactly. But it's behind Rose Hours, following along the strip mall, if you're going towards the I-5. I don't know exactly where it is on the map. It might be Royal, yeah. Yeah, the roundabout on Royal behind Rose Hours does have some contradictory stuff on there, and it's very hard to navigate, especially for pedestrians.

We also noticed on Royal, there was parts where there would be an entrance onto the sidewalk so that e-bikes wouldn't have to drive in roundabouts, which they shouldn't, because that's also dangerous. And there was an entrance to get on, but there was no entrance off. So they had to continue on the sidewalk all the way to the next driveway or cross section and then get back on, which there's multi-use paths all around those roundabouts. And it caused riders to have to go on the multi-use paths, then go onto the single sidewalks that are just meant for pedestrians, and then have to continue down those single sidewalks until there was a possible time to get on.

Just a quick question back on safety, please. I noticed Class 3 e-bike could go 28 miles an hour on a sidewalk. I'm not real sure that I'm in favor of that. I experienced just the other day an e-bike on Hillhurst in front of Tavenner on the sidewalk at 31 miles an hour. I think there should be some emphasis on respecting speed on sidewalks no matter what power level or size or class your e-bike is yeah totally um all of that stuff will be gone over in hopefully the safety course but when

people choose not to listen. We obviously can't enforce that. We can say something, but we can't really do anything at that point. It'd be something that The police would have to take care of, but yeah, no, totally. That is something that we are planning on teaching people or just trying to get out to the public. Like, Hey, these are sidewalks. People are going to be walking on them. If you're going to ride your bike, at least do it respectfully. Don't go fast, be cautious, like know what you're doing. And for them to be able to know what they're doing, we have to teach them.

I appreciate your concern and willingness to do that.

thank you thank you um i will i would also like to add on to that um we did see a bicycle speed limit sign um at the roundabout that main big roundabout right by rose hours it was tiny and it high up um but it did say a speed limit for bicycles it didn't say i don't think it said e-bikes um but it said bicycles and then it gave a speed limit um which could be helpful but honestly that is the first ever bicycle speed limit sign i've ever seen and i think they would be very helpful if that could also be implemented to to combat that concern

Do we have a bicycle speed limit in the city? That's not a thing? No. So there's nothing that governs bicycle speed? No. Okay.

One thing that I wanted to point out about what you had said is we originally had said that all three were allowed on the sidewalk, but I believe the class three is not allowed on the sidewalk because of its increased speed. So just pointing that out, Eric, because I didn't know if that came across clear.

I wasn't aware of that, but thank you very much.

I am curious, you guys being in the schools, obviously, and talking to your peers, what is the overall temperature? What is the thought and feeling around e-bikes in general? How receptive were people to you when they're like, this is what we're doing? Is it like, OK, we're still going to do whatever we want? Are they like, OK, we need that? What was the overall temperature from your peers?

Well, as of yesterday, so I work at Raptor, so I'm kind of able to talk to the youth whenever they come through to watch the baseball game, and I noticed an e-bike there yesterday, and I was just kind of sitting and waiting, and then we had some kids come up with some helmets, so I was like, are those your guys' e-bikes? And we got to talking a little bit about it, and I told them who I was and what we're doing, what we're studying, and I was asking for their feedback on it, and they all agreed that It's something that you should be doing already to keep yourself safe. Some kid pointed out that he had already been wearing a motorcycle helmet, like a big helmet, full gloves. It covered his face so he'd be safe. And I brought up the fact about wearing reflective gear. And he goes, orange looks ugly on me. I'm not wearing that. And then I just highlighted the fact that It's either that or, you know, risk your safety. So it's definitely something we're going to have to be like, hey, if you want to stay safe, you want cars to see you, you need to do this. And I was talking about lights. He goes, I already have lights. And they were just all kind of in favor and just overall agreeing that this is something we should do and something that people should already be doing. And I just feel that. From where we're coming from, I don't feel that we're pushing too much. It's kind of just like minimum, hey, keep yourself safe type of thing.

I also wanted to add that it does depend a lot about age and age as in like, I want to say maturity. Just because I know from like my friends that are in high school, we use e-bikes a lot just to get around to people's houses to then hang out. But I know I've seen so many middle schoolers and like intermediate schoolers that are just on their e-bikes just to like run around and do stupid stuff and do wheelies and play around on those bikes as the entertainment, whereas older kids are tending to just use it as a form of transportation to get places.

To touch on what AJ said is one thing that I assume will be the case is the people who have already been riding e-bikes and doing this stuff, they're not going to want to implement the new things. But for the up-and-coming people who maybe haven't gotten e-bikes yet, maybe they're in third grade now and then In a couple years when they're able to ride the e-bikes, then they're introduced to these rules that aren't sort of new to them while they've already been doing it. They're probably going to be more receptive to the idea of, oh, this is how it goes, as opposed to the people who are like, we've been doing it this way, we're going to keep doing it this way.

Yeah.

And then to touch on what Liz said, it was kind of the opposite end of the spectrum for me because I noticed a lot of my friends, they have e-bikes and they ride them around all the time. And when they found out that I was on this, they were trying to really point out their point of view on how it was. And I don't particularly remember what they said specifically, but I do remember they were like, don't take away our ability to go hang out with each other. And I tried to explain, we're not taking away, we're making it a safer experience for not just you, but for everybody else. And they were just not receptive to the idea. They're like, just let us do it. I guess they didn't see the downside to it of, oh, this could be hurting people and a danger to ourselves. Okay. Councilor Davis.

Yeah, I appreciate that commentary. And I mean, sort of that, acknowledging the thought that people that already have, like, are set in their ways, you know, they might move a few degrees, but a lot of this is maybe going to impact the people that are about to get an e-bike or something like that. A question I have, and I don't know if this is something you guys talked about, but did you venture into the conversation of consequences if people... don't follow the, you know, if we were to adopt new policy, what would be appropriate consequences for not following?

We did, but then we ended up thinking too much into it, like, to the point where we were thinking, what can we do to stop them? And our main focus was just bringing up our recommendation. So we kind of veered away from it, and we realized, like, it's not our place to come up with consequences and, you know, just represent. Yeah.

No, that's fair. I was just curious if you guys had that conversation, because there's a lot of layers to that. But I didn't know if you guys had. And if you had, then I would have loved to have known what that was.

Well, in addition to what Liz was saying, it is very difficult to enforce, even for a professional law enforcement force, because there's so many e-bikes out there. And a lot of them are unregulated, at least until we propose you our plan. it's already very hard to enforce. And I don't see it getting any easier with consequences attached. Because how do you enforce those consequences? I think, to add on to a little bit to what you're saying, we've focused mainly on preventative measures, like the educational courses and requirements for age before you can purchase one. And those are our main strategies to minimize accidents related to it, less so consequences. OK. Easton.

Um, we also just had a hard time thinking of, like, what consequences there could be. Because, like, police can't arrest a 10-year-old kid. We give them a ticket. So we just had a hard time thinking of, like, what could be a consequence. Because you can't really enforce things on a kid.

I see a couple of questions, and then I want to shift the discussion.

Just a quick question. Is there an expectation from what you've discovered that they don't expect any consequences?

I believe there's kind of like... a sense of, like, people that are set in their ways, just like, oh, I've been doing it for so long, they're not going to catch me, they're not going to do anything, blah, blah, blah. But that's just simply not the case, because if it's an older writer, these younger writers are going to look up to them, and they are kind of setting the example. So once, if... Anything gets implemented to try and teach the kids. We really want that to be the example. Like, if you see a safe rider, we want kids to kind of adapt to them and take away what they've learned. So, yes. Got lost in my train of thought.

I also think on Liz's part that you don't know a law has been created until it either gets explained to you or put in front of you or you be aware of the, quote, consequences or suffer those consequences. So... to begin with, not everyone's gonna know what's happening and what are the new rules and regulations and stuff. So that goes along with like education and just like getting information out there for everyone to know. And that information could spread all from safety to education to maybe like, oh, what's being connected and how can you like touch base on those.

Thank you all for that. So far, we've covered the safety component, education, and connection. And my understanding is that concludes the bulk of your presentation. And the way I see those is your findings, right? These are the things that you discover along the way. As you know, from coming out of this, this council will have to... Adopt an ordinance that that actually creates some gives gives your recommendation some legs We're gonna have to come up with a policy around this and and it's also gonna be enforceable So what I would like to know from from you all is number one to kick that discussion off and have our council bill ask questions pertaining to the implementation side of this and did you look at other jurisdictions other cities counties other places in Washington State preferably what are the policies that those jurisdictions have and what are some of the actual recommendations that you think that this council should adopt and form into policy as I go forward we did look at other counties and just places around us and

Yes, we kind of highlighted and took inspiration from what they were doing. And we do have notes, I'm pretty sure. And I'm just gonna hand it over to Bela.

Yes, Easton has it. Okay, so there was actually a county in Texas who was focused on the same exact thing. They focused on the same three components of connection, safety and education. And when we, they actually, we learned about it like a month ago or so. And when we heard about it, we kind of, we focused ours on their basis almost and like use some of their ideas, but a lot of their ideas already aligned with ours. So most of our presentation is what they have done in their cities, making sure there's enough multimodal paths and connections, making sure that there are safety requirements to clothings, helmet, and those sorts of things. And also just like education-wise, they did social media, they did stuff at schools and those sorts of things.

Great. I also want to point out, I don't remember if I, I think I said something about it, but I'm not sure that it made it into official conversations. I was doing a little bit of research on the side and noticed that in bigger cities like Chicago, New York, and LA, They had commissions. I don't know that it particularly was about e-bikes and that sort of thing, but they ended up determining that they could implement electric-only bike lanes in addition to a normal bike lane, and it's outlined in a different thing, and that's what I noticed, that they've come to a conclusion in other places that if you designate another spot, it's easier to... keep between those inter accents that could happen if there's multiple use on one area. Great.

I just, I wanted to go over this really quick. But they did like posters and then they included in school newsletters, social media. They created like a little mascot and his name was Simon and it was like stay safe, meet, oh, it was Scooter Simon, sorry, Scooter Simon. And then they had police go into children's classrooms. And they did digital outreach through the police department and they reached over 200,000 people, parents, teachers, students, and like just the broader community. And then they also enforced a no tolerance, zero tolerance enforcement with the police department. And I can just pass this around if anyone wants to see it.

Questions for the commission council?

I like the sounds of Scooter Steve, right? Get ourselves a mascot.

So one of the things you talked about in your safety portion of the presentation, you said that riders of motorized e-bikes and scooters must comply with all local helmet requirements. So number one, did you research what Ridgefield's local helmet requirements are? And are you recommending that classes one, two, and three all wear some form of head protection?

So to answer your second question, yes, we are. We are recommending that no matter what classification your e-bike is, whether it just be a bike in general, that there be some sort of head protection. And I believe in Ridgefield, we had talked about it. I don't really recall. But I believe in Ridgefield, you have to wear a helmet on a bike, whether it be anywhere, correct?

It's the state of Washington. You have to have a helmet.

The state of Washington says that?

Yeah.

I do not believe Washington does not have a helmet law. It says it does not have a statewide helmet law for traditional bicycles.

Correct.

Right. My understanding is that they refer that to local governments. So do we have a helmet law right now? No. Okay. So as part of your recommendation, was it safe to say that you're recommending that Classes 1, 2, and 3 all have some form of helmet protection that they wear?

Totally, yes.

Okay. And then with regards to classes one, two, and three, let's talk about, there's been several questions about sidewalks. Like, is there, what is your, what would you say is your commission's final recommendation on riding on sidewalks? What can and cannot be on sidewalks?

Class one and two, I would say sidewalks, yes. Class three, no.

Okay.

Just for the simple, they go faster, you hit someone, more consequences, you know, so...

Also, multi-use paths. The singular sidewalks that are really skinny that are clearly meant for just pedestrians, we hope to try to limit as much e-bike usage on those, just since they're so small. And you can... only fit two people walking, let alone a person walking and an e-bike. So multi-use paths are really our friends here in just getting around our city on e-bikes and so are bike lanes.

Is there access to data about like how many ones, how many twos, how many threes? Are we seeing ones way more than we're seeing threes? I'm trying to gauge what the main usage is.

I bet there is data somewhere. I see a lot of twos, class twos. I've seen some class threes and even some illegals, not in this city but around. But I don't tend to see a lot of class ones. I see class twos a lot. lot more and mostly with middle schoolers to early high schoolers.

I will say that if you go into Costco and many other stores, they have these Jetson bikes, which are class one. And so I see a lot of those because they're the affordable option. And these class twos and threes can come with a big price tag. And so while I don't discount what AJ said, I'm sure there's many class twos in a community where it's like lots of smaller kids. And maybe if the parents are buying them, they don't want to shell out. a huge amount of money to something that their kid probably will destroy in the first six months of having it, or the kid buys it themselves, they don't want to raise $4,000 to buy a Class 3 bike, the Class 1 is the more affordable option, and so I would say there's probably plenty of Class 1 out there.

I would also say I did volunteer at the Outer Rim Bicycle Shop for their safety event for the youth, and the amount of Class 2 bicycles or e-bikes that I did see come in on that day in specific was... really outnumbering the class one if I'm going to be honest I didn't see any class one I saw majority just throttles and it was just it was I was talking to the people that really repair them and they said that their biggest takeaway from them was just like what actually caused them to need repairing was that kids just crashed them or that they were reckless with them whether it be at their house or simply on the roads so yes that was just my little takeaway from that

understanding is that the police in Richfield, though, have stopped kids on e-bikes and had them call their parents to come and pick them up. Is that correct? Has that happened? Can I ask the police lieutenant here?

Yeah, we do that a lot.

And what are the kids doing that causes you to do that? I mean, what brings that about?

We can get you more information, like

I'll have him come up, but we're all at the table. I'm happy to have him come up if you want to grab the mic.

We'll have follow-up.

So I guess to answer that, the reason we contact them for multiple reasons is that we're, you know, we've been part of this conversation for the past year now, so our officers are kind of trained to recognize, hey, what's a class one, two, and three? And obviously the E motors are a big issue. Those are the ones that we're generally contacting are kind of the E motors, and those are the kind of the immediate stop, and then we contact parents. The class two and threes or any behavior that we see that may be deemed kind of reckless, we can still stop, right? I think someone said it doesn't really matter if it's an e-bike or not, right? If you're behaving recklessly, we can still contact and have those conversations. So usually it's through the parents. That's kind of the enforcement side of it. We have impounded one or two of them, but it's traditionally through parents. The parents, parents getting involved. Most of the time, it's kind of the same thing. We find that parents aren't that knowledgeable of what these classes are. Most of them aren't necessarily aware, hey, what I just bought my kid is actually illegal. So that's usually what we go through is kind of the contact of recognizing, hey, that bike is not legal to be riding where it is. We force that contact. And then it's calling parents, getting parents, educating parents of, whether they're bikesleeve or not, or, hey, your kid's behavior was reckless because of ABC.

Thank you. Thank you.

And kind of to add on to that, I believe when we were talking about safety, we were talking about safety courses to the buyer or just the children in general, we were kind of focusing on that, but really the safety course is kind of to educate everybody, whether it be parents who are buying them or parents of children who bought them themselves, just kind of trying to educate everybody on the fact, whether it be your kid has one or your neighbor has one, just trying to get everyone a little bit more educated to keep everybody safe.

Well, and I think that, you know, there's gonna be an appropriate place to have regulations when it comes to class one, two, and three, but I think in terms of some of it, we have to focus more on the activity and like what Lieutenant Marvitz said is just, you know, I imagine you can take a class two e-bike and go on YouTube and figure out how to make it behave a little bit closer to like a class three, right? And so, just saying, oh, well, it was a class two, well, but if what it's doing is closer to over here, so I think that we should have stuff that's more related to actual action, as opposed to just what it's capable of.

I've got a question. Okay. I've got a little recommendation. I know it isn't binding now. It'll come up before the council. But there's about three things. Number one, I think we should have a sticker on the bikes, have it required in the city, whether it's a Class 1, Class 2, or Class 3.

Like a golf cart sticker?

Like an ORV, off-road vehicle, like to have on four-wheelers or whatever that way. So... the officers would know exactly what sticker is. And if they're not stickered, then to ride in city, you need one. You can go, I'm going to say, city hall, go wherever. That'll be determined down the road to get one for your vehicle. I know helmets are going to be to your peers. They're not going to like it because we've been riding without them. Well, there's some of us never had to wear seat belts. And now we have to wear seat belts. And there was a lot of opposition. And most everybody takes care of them, does them now. Right, Clyde? Yeah. He does. But what I'm trying, and he's been around long before seatbelts.

I was around before seatbelts.

Yeah. More than one of us. But so we've all kind of morphed into it now, so they will too with pressure. But I really highly recommend some kind of a sticker on them so that the officers would know. And in our day, if you didn't behave correctly, you were escorted home in front of your parents and say they're not abiding to the rules. They don't have to arrest them. And some parents, I won't say that. Anyway, that's my comments.

I do want to touch on that sticker idea. I was thinking about stickers before he even brought it up. And I love the idea of a sticker because I know a lot of kids don't want to be carrying around like a wallet. So like some kind of driver license like thing probably wouldn't be the best. But it could always be like you do your safety course and you get a sticker either from the safety course or you show your completion of the safety course to a place where you can get the sticker and then you obtain that sticker. And then that's how we could prove that the person riding it or that bike has been certified in safety courses.

I do want to touch on what Councillor Davis said earlier. I am guilty of modifying a bike. One of my close friends, he had one of those bikes. And so in the winter, I believe it was last year, when we got that decent amount of snowfall, we took it out into a field and we took off what's called the governor. which if you are familiar with golf carts or some other off-road vehicles, they have a governor which limits the speed that you can have them at. And so we – most of these – I believe it was Class 3. It might actually have been an illegal one. It's gone now. He sold it. But all that to say, they do – They do have that limiting feature. And it can be easily removed. I'm firsthand experienced that it can be. And I'm also firsthand experienced that they can be very dangerous. I crashed that bike. And thankfully, I didn't get seriously injured. But it could have been a lot worse than it was. And I don't regret the decision because I'm a very adventurous person. And I enjoy that. But good to know.

Thank you. Great, yeah. Thank you.

That was a great comment. I also would like to point out, obviously e-bikes have a lot of danger, but there's also a lot of danger with any... thing on wheels that you use, whether a little tiny scooter for a five-year-old or a normal bicycle. I've had people crash, people that I know crash on e-bikes and they get away with a couple of scrapes. Obviously some are worse, but they get away with a couple of scrapes. But then like some other kids that I know that were on like a bicycle or going down a hill, and like tumbled over and like hit a curb or something and like they all had to go to the ER. So there's dangers across every wheeled thing and e-bikes might make that dangers higher but no matter what there is going to be a danger and we're just trying to prevent that from even happening and that same with like consequences with like law enforcement and stuff. We want to get to a place where there's not even a chance that they would have to get to those consequences because they would know how to act and how to be safe.

I got so overcome with my story there. What I was going to get at eventually was the Class 1, to my knowledge, don't have a governor because they physically don't have the power You can barely ride one of them up a hill using the pedal assist feature because they don't have the power. Class two, some may have a governor, but again, it's still limiting and the power is still limited. When it comes to class three, that's when you get into more unrestricted power if you remove that governor. And so the class one and two are a little bit safer on that side that you can't really tamper with them to cause to have them more power unless you're an electrical engineer and can give more power to it.

So I think one of the things we need to consider in these safety training is the safety of the people that you're riding them around because what I see in that in Tavenner is kids riding these e-bikes and not And they think that they have the right to do whatever they want, and people are driving, and people are walking, or whatever. And I've seen a few mishaps. There's probably been a lot more that I haven't seen. So I think it's pretty important in the safety training that that is also part of it, being careful about the surroundings and about the people that you are affecting by riding your e-bike in their sidewalks. Seriously. Thanks.

I've got one more thing on safety. Are more than one individual allowed on an e-bike in your perspective? Because I've seen three on one.

Okay, kind of like what Liam was talking about, not to throw anyone under the bus, but I've seen my brother do it, and absolutely not. It's common sense. Not more than one person should be on a bike, let alone an e-bike. I mean, it's... It's really funny when you see people do it because it's just like, why? Like... you know, common sense kind of exists, but I guess it's not as common anymore, but it's just kind of like, yeah, no, no. So to answer your question, no.

An additional thing to consider is in Taverner, there's some kids that have e-bike, and then they tie their skateboard to it, and they have a kid on the back riding on the skateboard, and then the kid's on the e-bike, and I mean, it's like insane, but you know, not tying other moving objects to it is another thing.

Yeah, totally. That just sounds like we need to get RPD, like, just watching.

I do think that no matter, like, how, like, on bicycles, there's, like, people, and then they're, like, someone will stay on the handlebars, like, straight out of the notebook or something. But two people can fit on an e-bike, but... fit on an e-bike or in my case that I've had is like an e-scooter. But for example, like e-scooters, they have brakes on the back on the wheels and you can't get there with a second person. So it limits the e-bikes safety and like form and like way. Because those e-bikes are not meant for, let's say, like 250 pounds if you got two kids on them. They're meant for like a normal size human or child to be on the e-bike and not like hurting it or weighing it down.

to touch on what Councillor Wells said. There are, I cannot think of the name, but there are different sorts of, not e-bikes, but bicycles that have actual seats for more than one people. And it- Yes, it gets into a different classification of the bike. And as of right now, I haven't seen any e-bikes that have that sort of thing. And most of the e-bikes that I'm seeing are a single seat. And when you get into Class 3 and the e-motives that are illegal, they start to have that bench seat. But the Class 1 and 2, they only have a one-person seat that really only one person can fit on.

There's always a seat, am I right?

Do they have pegs on the back?

I think also like what Judy was saying about the kid on the skateboard, that's just a normal kid thing. I think we've all done that as a kid, right? So I don't think we want to take away from that fun side of it. But at the same time, yes, we talked about it in the very beginning that e-bikes can be good too. And they can be a way for transportation, a way for fun. We just want to make sure that people are doing it safely. And I think if they're riding class one in their neighborhood with a friend on the back, that's different than going 30 miles down the road with a friend on the back.

I think I'll give you just a second here. But you hit on a good point here. And as we look towards a policy that we implement, I think that the primary purpose should be to make sure that we have something to help regulate and keep people safe on the streets, both pedestrians, drivers, and cars, and people on e-bikes themselves. Caution would be to not be overly restrictive on it But also make sure we have the right amount of teeth to it that we can help and you know help RPD or whoever else Enforce it in a way that keeps them safe, but doesn't kill the fun. So we'll go to AJ and then

I did want to just like reassure on that like skateboard example. With like trucks and trailers that have like short wheelbases, they can only go a certain speed before there's like that like death wobble. So at a certain point, I don't think the skateboards can even get up to that really, really high speed while being pulled behind an e-bike.

Let's go to Liz, and then we'll go to you, Councilor Buerkle.

Well, yes, I just kind of wanted to touch. No, I lost my train of thought.

Okay. Councilor Buerkle. I just want you all to know we're not here to eliminate e-bikes. We're here to make sure they're used correctly, safely, and not endanger other pedestrians. I think e-bikes are terrific. If I were younger, I'd have one, and I'd have a class three, and I'd make it go faster than that. I'm like you.

I like fast.

You don't have to wear a seatbelt on them, so. No, like I say, we're not here to eliminate e-bikes. We just want them to be safe.

Did you find it?

Yes, I did. On his point that we're not here to eliminate them, yes, we really want to just come back and say we're not saying that they're terrible things and that they should just go away because they're not safe. We're just here to just touch base and try and keep people safe. as well as when we were talking about the connection piece, like we were talking about how people get from point A to point B, and we wanted to touch on the fact that not everyone is just riding with their friends, messing around, that there's actually people who need them to go to work, or there's people that take them to school. Like, there's multiple aspects to the connection piece of it that people don't see and that aren't really highlighted as much as the recklessness. So, yeah, we just want to kind of come back and just be like, or and just touch that they're not terrible and that they're actually extremely useful when they're used to it.

I saw you, and then we'll go to Counselor Davis.

Also, this is like a... This is a cheap alternative. They can cost as little as $200. So paying for that rather than paying for car insurance, the car payment and everything is helpful for people. So like Liz said, we want to really touch on that point of these are tools, but they also are toys. So we need to treat them as both.

That's good. Councillor Davis and then Councillor Woodville.

Yeah, I guess going back to like maybe things we could put into action, you know, you guys had recommended doing some outreach, social media type stuff. You know, I'm not sure what kind of a budget we would be looking at for this, but I think, you know, we can maybe figure out like some videos. I think it'd be fun for council and the Youth Commission to maybe all have a part in that. you know, going through some of that stuff. I mean, no stunts, sorry, but, or maybe as an example of what not to do, right? I mean, we could probably have some fun with it. You want it to be catchy. So I think that might be appropriate for us to get involved with. That's good. Council member, you want to go first?

Okay.

On the video aspect, I know we talked about it and like we talked about like what kind of like especially social media and like videos could come out. And there was some crazy ideas and it involved me getting hit with an e-bike. But we can do like in formats that make teens like want to pay attention, which usually comes with like humor and like approachable stuff, not being like, hey, We don't want you to write them more of try to do this the right way so that we can all have fun on them.

Yeah, 100%.

I'm just going to switch topics a little bit here. But during this entire process, y'all have been working together for a while now. Is there anything that you have learned from all of this that you were least expecting or something that you learned about yourself through this entire process that you're kind of going to hold on to and take with you? Yeah. Yeah.

Don't be shy, guys. Let's hear from somebody new.

Well, I guess I'll start off. I would say generally in school, we're given the opportunity to do assignments. And in school, we're given long projects. But those projects generally come with a set of instructions, information we have to put together. whatever it is, guidelines. One thing I've thought that was really interesting about this was, of course, we're given an objective, but we've been given a lot of leniency on how we want to accomplish that. We were the ones who split into the committees and all of that. So I think one thing I've learned from this process is not only teamwork, but how to build from the ground up and not from a starting point up with the team. OK.

I think that I've learned a lot about collaborating and just taking a topic that I've never really considered that much before and learning so much about it and all these different opinions and then kind of synthesizing that into one final recommendation that we have.

That's good.

I feel like this taught us how to stay on our toes. We went over several different ideas, and we thought of something, and we were like, oh, how can we make that better? How can we change that? And we just put a lot of effort and thinking power into all our different decisions.

Not so much of what we learned, but what really surprised me and made me happy with this group was a lot of us came in not necessarily owning an e-bike or knowing a lot. There was only a handful that had previously had an e-bike or even an e-scooter. I feel like all of us showed the drive not just because we thought that maybe the topic was the most interesting thing in the whole entire world, but more of we had the drive to come up with something that was presentable and that we could figure out and accomplish and succeed at.

Go ahead. It's all you.

I think it was a great opportunity to learn from each other. I think that getting to work with other people is really helpful to hear others' ideas instead of just your own idea the whole time. So it was really good for collaboration.

That's good life skill.

That's good.

That's good training for being on the city council in the future.

Well good, this has been really helpful. I do want to say, and I'll probably say it two or three more times, but I want to thank you all for your contributions to this process. it's not understated that this is a very real problem that we're trying to solve in the city and that when we eventually get something passed, you'll be able to look back and say that you actually contributed to that. And that's kind of a cool thing. So, you know, know that you guys have really made a real impact on, you know, citywide policy. So thank you for that. I do want to be respectful of everyone's time this evening, but I do want to make sure that everyone on our youth commission has an opportunity to say what they want to say. So for the good of the order, is there anything else that maybe somebody has been itching to kind of contribute to this or wants to add that they've heard along the way, however random that might be? Any other illegal stories you want to tell about things you've done? We're happy to hear those, but I'll give you guys an opportunity. And then I'm going to do the same thing for council, let council have their last words as well. Go ahead. No surprise.

There we go. Going back to the videos and stuff, I do think a lot of us would be interested in making some of those videos just because we have the background of it and we've already thought of a bunch of funny ways to really reach out that are not just captivating for us, but we think that it would be captivating for everyone else to watch a funny moment of someone doing something stupid on an e-bike to learn to not do that stupid thing on an e-bike. 100%, yeah, good.

Anybody else?

I would also like to say, and I'm a very honest person, so if my honesty offends anybody, please, I apologize.

You're good, you're good.

I understand it was a new thing, and so we were kind of getting the hang of it all together. And if we have the opportunity to do it in the future, I know I would love to be a part of that again. But I think in the future, very clear guidelines on what we're intended to be doing. and how we can do our part in executing it, because my issue, if you could call it an issue, was I didn't exactly know, like I knew the purpose of what we're here to do, but I didn't know as much as what we could do to help execute it, and so like clear, very clear guidelines could be helpful in the future, as well as, I lost it.

Yeah. I think that's really good, too. And I think that, Megan, you will have an opportunity to kind of get some feedback on the whole process. I'm sure we'll have some as well. But, you know, for an inaugural year of this commission, I think that this has been really great to see you all and how you have adapted to it and learn along the way. And it's been a learning experience for all of us, too.

And on Liam's note, I truly just want to take a second and thank Megan so much for all her guidance. I mean, I know I've been lost for a while. But, yes, truly thank you so much for guiding us. And when we get off topic, which happens a lot, you put us back right on topic. And you've truly been a really big help. So thank you so much.

That's great.

And Lee and all of you and everyone else.

That's wonderful. In addition to that, I actually wanted to thank the city council. You guys have been really helpful in this process, providing us the resources we need, but also allowing us to do this in the first place is a really rare opportunity, especially for people our age, and to be able to interact with each other. I had met maybe two people on here before coming here, and now I've got a lot of new friends, I've got new experiences, and I've got a lot of interesting abilities I can take on in the future, and I want to thank you guys for providing us this opportunity. That's great. Anybody? Yeah, go ahead.

Okay, I just want to say one more thing about e-bikes. So I heard... The lieutenant who's gone right before the meeting say that it's all about watts now. And when we talked to Sergeant Jensen at the beginning of the year, he was saying how there's a 750 watt maximum for a class three e-bike, but you can't really tell when someone's going down the road. So we might want to take that into consideration because there are ways to modify it in different battery. It's super easy to do. we should maybe figure that out.

I'd agree with that. And I think that's gonna be really important. So thank you for mentioning that.

That could be like a little variation of the like sticker idea and have different kinds of stickers saying this is educated and maybe have a sticker that shows like the wattage or the class or like something that makes it so that we don't or like enforcers don't have to dig through to find that information.

That's good. Anybody else from the Commission? All right, Council, anything from any of you? Councillor Buerkle.

I would just like to personally thank each and every one of you for your efforts on this issue. You need to pat yourselves on the back. I'm not sure that any other group of young people such as all of you have had the opportunity to do what you did and do it so well. Thank you very, very much.

Councilor Wells or anybody? Okay, Councilor Pavela.

Yeah, I want to echo that. You know, when I first got on council and learned about youth commissions, I was like so excited to bring this to Ridgefield, and this has really been something I've been excited about. And watching all of you be... the first in Ridgefield to do this. I don't think we could have asked for a better group to stand up and represent the youth in the community. And then I want to also congratulate Bela and Connor, even though he's not here on their graduation. I am really excited for you. I know you only have a few days left of school, but I cannot wait to see what you do in the future, and I'm really glad you were a part of this. Congrats.

I'm just gonna echo, but put my own spin on it here. I think it's really cool, as I get older, I look back on things that I didn't realize were gonna be super impactful in my life. I didn't give it the weight or the gravity that it ends up being, and I think this is probably gonna be, and I hope it is, for all of you, something you get to look back on, and you developed a skill that you didn't even realize till later, you learned how to collaborate, you learned how to get involved in your community, and you really stepped up and you showed up, and so we're all super appreciative of that, and I just wanna congratulate everybody. Mr. Davis?

Yeah, I mean, I would echo all that and just add that, you know, we gave you kind of an interesting task, but it was a task that was asking you to maybe make decisions that weren't going to be popular with your peers. And that is sometimes not an easy thing to do. It's not easy for us as adults sometimes because those are things that we have to consider. But, you know, it's especially hard. for kids, and so I really applaud you for, you know, taking kind of a holistic look and looking at data and looking at what's realistic and for the, I guess, the findings and recommendations that you guys brought forward. You know, it's, again, it's a topic that is going to impact your peers, and so we really, really appreciate you doing that because that's the most appropriate way to tackle it is from folks like you, so job well done.

Before I close out, Megan, anything from you? I don't want to put you on the spot, but I do want to give you an opportunity. I just haven't led this program.

I don't have anything to add. These have been amazing youth to work with, and I've really enjoyed watching this conversation tonight. So thank you.

That's great. Okay. Okay. All right, well, just to close things off here, again, I do want to thank all of you for your contributions. And from number one, going back to last summer when you all stepped up to apply for this and going through the process to interview for it and to spend month after month as a team participating in this process. It's important to us, and I hope that you see the value in what you've been able to bring to the city government. That's no small thing. I hope that going forward, whether you are on the Youth Commission in the future or do other things, but you are involved in your community wherever we are. If you go to college or wherever beyond, be involved in your community. Be a contributor to it, because as you will see, the things that you contribute to, the things that you speak up about, you can make a real difference in. And so I think that's incredibly thrilling, especially as a young person going back to Councillor Hamilton saying that, you know, I think I wish I would have done that sooner too to see that. So you guys have a really unique opportunity. So again, thank you for your contributions to this. I hope that you will continue to stay involved and we look forward to learning from you about this as I go forward. In fact, you know, The idea of youth commissions is taking hold, especially across the state, and this week I was just asked by the Association of Washington Cities, who's holding a conference later this month, for me to speak on a panel talking about youth commissions, and so the word is getting out that you guys, I think, did some good things, and so I'll be able to use this experience and reflect on what you guys contributed to that and brag about you a little bit at a state level, too. Be glad for that. I would be remiss if I didn't personally thank and acknowledge Megan DeMoss for this effort as well. You did fantastic. Thank you for the energy you put into this and everything that you did to help coordinate and keep this herd of cats on track. I think that you guys were probably a good bunch, but again, thank you for that. Really great. Looking forward to hearing your insights coming out of this as well. And council, for you all, thank you for being participants as well. And then going as I go forward, I think that what we're ready to do is look to staff towards putting together hopefully a draft ordinance here soon for council to consider using the input that we heard here today and getting something more in our city code. So we're excited to see that happen as well. It's definitely a need. Unless there's anything else, I don't think there is. We're going to close out this session, but once again, thank you all for your contributions here, and we're looking forward to seeing what happens next. Okay, we're all done here. Thank you.