City Council - Regular Meeting

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All right. Well, let's go ahead and kick it off. It's officially 52. You've had two minutes to get in. If you can't get in, you might be able to join late. Um, hi everyone. My name is Angela Fouse. I am with the development services department here at the city of Reno. Also joining us is Lauren Knox. Her and I work together doing kind of planning, zoning, um a lot of kind of policy things, working with our city council. So the topic today is live entertainment. We have two meetings this week. We are presenting the same information. We just tried to coordinate different times of the day depending on people's personal schedules and work schedules. So this is our evening meeting. We have another meeting scheduled for Thursday at 9:00 in the morning. Um but again it will be the same information. So with that I am going to share my screen and kick it off for a presentation. So hopefully everyone is here for the same purpose. Um today we're going to be talking about a pilot program related to live entertainment. And a little bit of uh history behind this. We've been working on the topic of live entertainment for a couple years now. Um, as as we came out of COVID, we we we for a long time did not see live entertainment because of COVID restrictions and as more businesses have opened and live entertainment has kind of come back to life. Um, it's been a hot topic especially with more residents moving into downtown whether that is postcoid or just in general as new construction has happened. So, we're seeing kind of a I would say a um some challenges where we have a 24-hour downtown kind of Midtown area um with again that live activity, things happening all night long versus people that are trying to live. And it was different, I think, when we had less people living in downtown and more people just coming to visit. So, it's just a it's a different dynamic now. And um I know this is something that our

council is interested in and trying to both, you know, encourage businesses to move here um but also encourage people to want to live downtown. So more recently, we went to council. We initially went back in in March and just gave an update on some of the things that we've seen with live entertainment. We held a community survey, did some meetings last fall, and out of that council gave us direction to come forward with what we're calling a pilot program. and they were looking for ways to encourage more business kind of uh live entertainment businesses in our downtown area, especially as summer is kicking off, but also find ways to protect residents from um some of the undesirable parts of live entertainment, which is the the loud noise, kind of the rowdy characters, um business operators that aren't operating on on with I would say good security plans and those sorts of things. So, what we're doing now is going forward and talking about the draft language for this pilot program that we're going to kick off. Um, we do have several public meetings to get through before it's adopted. So, just everyone knows this is not something that's been adopted. This is something council said go forth and get some public feedback and then bring it back to planning commission and council for the next steps. All right. So, my computer's not working. There we go. Um, kind of the intent of this is that council was looking for something really to help some of those small businesses. They heard a lot of complaints from new bars that were trying to open and they wanted to have live entertainment. Our current current rules say that if you have live entertainment after 11:00 at night, it triggers a conditional use permit. and they were getting a lot of push back from the small business community saying, you know, that's expensive. It's about $5,000. Um, it's a long process, takes about three months, requires a public hearing. Is there

anything we can do to really just kind of bring more energy to downtown in a way that's faster and quicker? Um, but council also wants to make sure we have some guardrails in place so we're not just randomly saying yes to any live entertainment. And we want to make sure that we do it in a in a way that really protects again residents that live downtown. And so that's what this pilot program is intended to do. Just to get everyone on the same page, what is live entertainment? That's really any kind of activity, whether it's a band playing music or a DJ playing music, whether it's people there because they're dancing. Um, trivia. We we have a lot of places that do trivia. That's considered live entertainment as well. So right now, everywhere in the city, you can do live entertainment up until 11 p.m. And that's citywide. And so really the the the trigger, the distinction is anything after 11 p.m. that's indoors has to go through that conditional use permit process. So as part of this proposed pilot program, um we're going to walk through some of the things that we're proposing to also put in is like I said, as our guard rails. Um, so one of the the big benefit to the business is that through this pilot program, you would no longer have to go through a conditional use permit. And again, that's about a three-month process about $5,000. And there's always the uncertainty of what added conditions am I going to get? Um, you know, is it going to affect financially how my business operates or if I have to construct something differently? A lot of feedback from the businesses on just the unknown in going through that process. Um, this isn't permanent though. We're just going to try it. So, we're calling it a temporary pilot project. The intent is once this is adopted later this summer. Um, it would be about an 18-month window. And so, within that 18 months, it gives us a chance to work with businesses that come in, they have to go through again a series of steps in order for us to approve them without that conditional use permit. Um, but then after that 18 months, we would either go back to the

old rules which triggers that conditional use permit or we'd go back to council and propose some changes that would be more permanent. Now, one thing that is specific is that this is only for indoor live entertainment. We have a lot of businesses that maybe have patios or seating areas outside. So, this would not be um something that would allow them to do outdoor live entertainment. If you still want to do outdoor living live entertainment, you would still trigger a conditional use permit. So again, this only affects businesses that have live entertainment indoors. And then we do still require through our business license department a cabaret license. And that's um just a separate business license. It does require city council approval, but there's not a lot to it um from a a public perspective. there's more of a a series of background checks and and those sorts of things, but there's not like a lot of Q&A or back and forth on should this business be allowed to have that cabaret license. Okay. One additional step that we're adding that's currently not in our code requirements is a security plan. Now, a security plan is different depending on how you operate, and we realize that. So, we we didn't want to make it a one-sizefits-all, knowing that every business is a little different, and we want you to design it to to your business. Um, we were seeing some similarities with more of the nightclub type uses. You know, typically the nightclubs have a bouncer or some kind of security. A lot of times we see people lined up to get in. Um, so, you know, similarities in terms of how the business operates. So, we put together a checklist of what we would need to see if you are operating more of a nightclub type of live entertainment. And so, we have this checklist here. You, as the business operator, would submit that information to us and we make sure that it gets reviewed through our police department, um, through our code enforcement, through our planning department, through our business license. And so, they they've seen kind

of the pros and cons of, you know, good operators and bad operators. And so they can kind of help, you know, work with the business to say, "All right, let's figure out how you're going to handle um queuing when people are lined up." You know, is your staff trained when there's a fight? Is your staff staff trained to know when they're over sererving somebody? You know, how are you guys double-checking to make sure that you're not serving to minors? Um kind of bigger picture. In the past, we've had some bad operators who had a lot of weapons and a lot of fights in their bar. there was sex trafficking and drug deals being done inside. And so through that security plan, that gives us a little bit more protection that you as the business operator acknowledge these are the things that we are looking for. And we want to make sure that you as the operator are also making sure um those types of events are not happening inside your bar. Um and so with that security plan, there's a list of things you have to do. For the other types of bars, maybe you're a bar that, you know, just wants to have live music until midnight or 1:00. Or maybe you do more of the low-key, it's not like a nightclub, but you want to have bands here and there. You know, you you may have a different type of security plan. Again, the key things we're looking at is are you operating in a way that's safe? Um, you know, how are you handling crowds when they get out of control? Is your staff trained to handle those types of situations? And so your security plan may look a little different, but again, we we try and curtail it to make sure that you as the business operator have kind of um safety uh you know, in the community's interest at heart. And then um we would approve that again through our departments and that would have to be approved before we issue you a cabaret license. So that's just our part of the process um if you're through this pilot program that you would have to do. And we're also putting in some extra teeth. I would say that we basically acknowledge that if if you get a security plan that's approved and we find that it your business is operating

in a very different lifestyle um you know than what you had thought. So again for instance if you're a bar that has a lot of you know maybe you're open till 6 a.m. you've got bands you've got music going you got crowds all hours of the night maybe you weren't anticipating that that was going to be what type of bar you have but that's the crowd that you're getting which is fine. Again, we just want to make sure that your security plan um is able to address from a safety perspective that type of crowd. And so, we reserve the right to say, you know what, maybe your security plan didn't anticipate that you were going to have that kind of a crowd. And so, we want you to go back and make sure you're doing training again with your security personnel. Maybe you need more security personnel. um if we run into issues where there's a lot of fights happening at your bar, we're going to go back and talk to you and say, you know, your your security plan's not working. So, we're going to give you a chance to try and fix it and make it better. However, if you continue to be a bad operator, we reserve the right to potentially remove your cabaret license. That means you can no longer have live entertainment. Um there's been one time in the city of Reno and that was just recently where we had a a really bad operator and we work with them and you know we had them redo a security plan and it didn't take long and they weren't adhering to that security plan and at some point they had their license revoked and so again we tried to work with them through the process. We gave them the chance to improve. We gave them the chance to write their own security plan that we approved and again still it wasn't working. So we revoked their license. So, we're just acknowledging that if that happens through this process, again, this pilot program, and you're not able to to operate in accordance with, you know, from safety perspective, um, what you agreed to do, then we reserve that right to revoke your license. Now, with this pilot program, we're not only limited it to just indoor live entertainment, but we're looking at where it should be citywide. And I don't

know if people realize this, but from a citywide perspective, almost everywhere in the city, if you want to have any business past 11:00 at night, whether it's just a restaurant, whether it's an office, if it's past 11:00 at night, that triggers a conditional use permit. Doesn't have to be a bar, doesn't have to be live entertainment. Um, but within our downtown entertainment core, and that's the Midtown area, downtown Fourth Street corridor by right, you can open any business 24 hours a day. So, that area in particular is known for a 24-hour kind of activity and thriving downtown. Um, so that's where we said it probably makes more sense to limit this pilot program to that area. If you can already have a bar 24 hours a day, then what changes if you have a cabaret, you know, again, live entertainment, it's allowed for 24 hours a day. So, if you do want to use this pilot program and not go through that conditional use permit, you are limited to only those parts of town. And we call that the entertainment core. So, we have had questions on, well, what are you doing to protect the residents? You know, again, that balance we're trying to strike between a thriving 24-hour community where we want businesses to be successful and we want tourists and locals to come to our downtown and Midtown area, but yet we also want people to feel comfortable living in downtown. So, some of the things that we're doing as part of this pilot program with the intent of how we're protecting residents, um, we are limiting this just to the indoor and we talked about that a little bit before, but again, we realize that the outdoor live entertainment is loud. Um, we don't want that to be a free-for-all. So, this this pilot program is just for your operations that are indoors. And secondly, it's just within that entertainment core. Again, these are places that today you can operate 24 hours a day. So, if you can operate a bar 24 hours a day, what's the difference between that and live

entertainment? So, it's not citywide. It's truly just that that 24-hour area of town. And then, um the the big thing that we're really pushing with this is that we're letting businesses know if you don't follow that security plan that you wrote and you agreed to, we 100% reserve the right to pull it back. And so if you are a bad operator and we will try our best to work with you and let you know, you know, what you need to do differently to be a better operator and you're still not able to comply, we 100% will reserve that right to pull back your CPAP license. And so that's something I don't think we've been very good at in the past. Um, you know, when we've had continual complaints about one bar or two bars, we haven't been good about pulling back anything, whether it was a conditional use permit or a license. And so that's something we're putting really face forward in this to say we're going to try this. It's a temporary thing, but make sure you're being a good operator. So in terms of next steps, um this this month or this week, like I said, we are holding our two community meetings and then next week we are going to go to planning commission. They serve as um kind of our our zoning body. They get to approve anything that affects our zoning code. So, they'll get to review the draft language that's proposed and make a recommendation to council. And then this will go to council in June. Um, we have to go to council twice for final approval. So, we have a again kind of a series of public meetings in front of us. This is just the first of many. So, once this pilot program is approved, we're going to take the next 18 months and really spend some time just tracking, you know, what's working and what's not. Um, we're going to try and be more proactive on the staff side of things. And when we have complaints from the community about a bar that's, you know, not being a good operator or maybe they have, um, a lot of people that are outside at 3:00 in the morning and they're not very good with crowd control. Um, we're going to do our best

to just be better at talking to them saying, "This isn't working. We understand you're trying to operate a bar, but let's find a better way to handle some of the crowd control." And then we're going to go back to council, you know, through this process over the next 18 months and give them updates. And so we're we're really relying on the community and the people that that live and work downtown. If you see something that's that's not working, um if you see a business that's not operating in a in a way that's safe, um you know, contact the city and we're going to put that on our list. And so again, gives us the ability to kind of have eyes and ears out there when we're not out there. I think a lot of people think that we have staff working 24 hours a day in our downtown and we do not. Um, you know, we have a business license department and code enforcement department, but they generally don't work weekends or evenings. And so we rely on complaints that come in through um our Reno direct line. And so um the more that we hear from the community on businesses that are are not being good operators um gives us kind of more more information than we would have otherwise. So ways that you can provide feedback, we do have a web page set up. It's probably 20 characters. So the best way for you to get there is just to go in Google or find a search engine and just plug in City of Reno initiatives and updates. And there'll be a link um to the actual draft language that's proposed. And then if you have any feedback, again, take some time this week, um, review the information, kind of let it sink in, see what you think is a good idea or maybe what we could do to improve it. And then my contact information, fouse a reno.gov, is there. And then all your um, feedback through email, I'm able to share with planning commission and city council. So if there's things again that we need to modify to address whatever concerns you have, that would be the best way for us to get that information.

Okay. And with that, we're going to open it up to our chat box. So, if you have questions or comments, go ahead and and share your kind of um virtual hand and we will bring you over and so you can speak to the larger group. Also, I just want to note that I did put the website um in the chat box link if anyone wants to access it from there. And if you do have questions or comments, you can also put it in the chat for everyone.

Perfect. All right. And at this time, I'm not seeing anyone raise their hand. And again, it's probably a lot to take in. Um, like we said, go ahead and click on that link, and there is a um another link in there where you can review the draft language. I gave you the high level of what all that language says um for that proposed pilot program. But um as you think about it and whether you are a resident or a bar owner or business owner, we definitely want to get your feedback, you are the ones, you know, that we we look at and ask the question, what are we doing right? What are we doing wrong? Um council asked us to put together this pilot program. So, we're just kind of taking that direction and trying to come up with what we think will work. But again, it's temporary, um not permanent. So, if we find that this was a a bad idea and we should go back to doing conditional use permits or we should add additional whatever, um, you know, again, you guys are the eyes and the ears of of what's working, what's not on your end. All right, I think we do have one person. Um, Ed, I'm going to move you in and if you want to unmute.

Yep. Go ahead. recap. Wonderful. All right, let's lower the hand. Um, okay. Uh, this is this was the one that started out as a noise ordinance. Correct.

Two things. So, we had kind of two topics with council. One is whether or not council wants to initiate a noise ordinance and the separate topic was live entertainment. Should we be stricter or excuse me, stricter or less strict? So, really two separate topics. Okay, not a problem there. Um, yeah, I kind of like that. Um, but from the meetings that I was in last summer, um, I was I was impressed by the number of operators that had jurisdictional issues with that they could only enforce their rules to the sidewalk and no farther. And is there some kind of mechanism for them to be able to try to control the crowds and stuff like that outside of that or is there some kind of you know sharing agreement or is there something is that being looked at? Oh, so I think maybe um you're referring to like when when people leave a bar and they're out on the sidewalk and they get in a fight,

the um the security personnel or the bouncers of that bar aren't aren't supposed to go out there and and break up a fight because now you're on publicly owned land or you know a street or a sidewalk and the police need to be the one to enforce that. Yeah. But if it's a line, you know, standing around waiting to get into the venue and a fight starts in that, do the bouncers have jurisdiction there?

So, that's a good question. I don't know that I have the legal answer to that. Um, as part of the security plan, we do ask that they put together a plan of how their bouncers will handle kind of crowd control. Um, in the past, what we've seen often times, if it's a place where you know you have lines coming in, um, the people that are just kind of loud and crazy and obnoxious, number one, if they're out of control and already overs served, don't let them in the bar. Um, number two is, you know, if they have weapons on them, a lot of times we we have bouncers that that check for weapons. And so that's another issue of they're being a little bit more proactive before before people come in and they're over served and they've got weapons. Um, so those are some of the types of things that we're doing, but that again it goes back to crowd control before they come into the bar. Um, if they're getting in fights, do not let them in. You know, those are the kind of things that we're looking for the bouncers who are trained to know what to look for um to handle that kind of thing. And we also I mean we definitely encourage the the operators if if there's a fight, call 911. You know, that's our we have police force. I can't guarantee that they'll get there in in three minutes. Um, but that's what their job is is to is to help handle that kind of situation that's outside of the bars.

Okay. Thank you. I just want to note that it sounds like the chat box isn't working. Um, but the Q&A question does seem to be working. So, either raise your virtual hand or use that Q&A function. And we did receive a question in the Q&A box. Angela, I don't know if you can see that. If you'd like me to read it out. I am not seeing it on my end. All right. So, it's from Andre Taus and it says, "What is the benefit to the business owner vice another layer of work?"

Oh, there we go. Um, so right now as a business owner, you have to go through a conditional use permit and that is an application to the city of Reno. It takes about three months to get through and it requires the planning commission approval. So, that's what the rules are today. If you want live entertainment after 11:00, it's an additional process. Um that conditional use permit runs forever with the property. It's not tied to the business. So if you're in a in a um a place now and you go through and you spend all this money and you get it approved and a year later you leave as the bar operator and you go somewhere else, it doesn't transfer with you. So that's what the rule is today. So what we heard from the businesses is like it's expensive, it takes a long time, you know, Reno, why are you being so difficult? Um, so what we're trying to do is say, let's take that out of the process temporarily and see if it works. Um, so you no longer would have to spend that money or spend that time. You would, as long as you're within this downtown kind of entertainment core, you could buy right, you know, just start operating with live entertainment. The key things though is you need that security plan and you you do need a cabaret license regardless of the conditional use permit or not. You do need a cabaret license. So the benefit for for you as a business owner if that's what you are um is that you would no longer have to spend the time and money to go through that conditional use permit process. Okay. All right. And I apologize that our chat doesn't appear to be working.

Not sure what happened there. All right, Reanuel, who would like to talk? So, I'm going to bring you over now. And Art, you should be able to talk now. And you are still muted on our end, Art. Okay. Yeah, I've got it. There we go. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Thanks for the presentation. Um, first question is, how many people are are participating at this right now? Right now we have five attendees.

Wow, [laughter] that's disappointing. Um, a few questions. Uh, you indicated that the aim is to help activate Reno's entertainment districts. I've been, as you know, I watch or or participate in a lot of the council meetings. What I heard I heard you go to the council make I did not hear what is what does it mean to activate the Reno's entertainment district? What does that mean?

Well, from from this perspective, the direction from council is what can we do to be more businessfriendly and encourage live entertainment in our downtown core? What is it? What's your your definition of a thriving downtown?

I think it can mean many things. I think from again the perspective of what council has tasked us with doing is are there things we can do to encourage more businesses to open and to operate. Um, from a live entertainment perspective, we have gotten, like I said, a number of complaints, from business owners who say, why are there so many, you know, why is there so much red tape in order to open a business in downtown Reno with a bar and live entertainment? So, this will help them to have, I would say, less red tape. Um, and to be able to open with that live entertainment faster. And so that that's kind of the intent of this program is to help bring live entertainment to our downtown in a in a faster but yet safer way.

That's that's interesting. Uh and I'm glad I'm one opinion. Arch, feel free to share your opinion. We're doing the best we can to do what council directs us to do.

I'm glad to see the staff has accepted the fact that there's a lot of residential properties going into into the downtown. [clears throat] Um, for those of us uh down there that have been living with this for many, many years, it really is primarily the electronic dance music. I mean, the things about trivia and singing and things of that nature, I don't know that that's ever been an issue. Um, I understand businesses that uh have those kind those kind of entertainment uh businesses that would have uh heartburn over it. And I mean any any of us that have ever run a business, I mean it's kind of standard practice that you're told when you go into business, expect to have a loss for at least six months. and and and there is a process especially for something like this when you you've got what I call incompatible uses next to one another a loud bar that stays open to 3:00 or 4 in the morning and people trying to get asleep especially you know in in a like in the downtown residence especially those people like in the montage we have people who are in the u in the medical profession over at St. areas or other places. It would be nice if they could get a night a good night's sleep. So, the noise has been for us the biggest issue and yet I don't see any reference to noise here. I also didn't see any reference to the building staff being part of this because it seemed I mean again the noise even though it's inside if if a if a building is properly um acoustic acousticized um that noise need not go out out into the community. So that to me is important. We've got a few other questions.

Um, go ahead. The this and you indicated this going to the planning commission next week, right? Yes, that's correct. So, you must have a good idea of what you're going to present to them and I hope I hope it's a lot more than this, but I few questions. How will the city evaluate the success or failure of of the of this experiment? Well, I would say that's up to council. You know, our job is to present them.

But you're the professional information, but you're the professional. They are not. Those of us that are city planners, you know, as you know, I did this as a career as well. And they rely on us to be the experts on these things and give them answers because they don't they're not okay. Specifically, what metrics will be measured to see if this works or not?

Yeah. And there there's no metrics like I said at that point. Okay. Okay. No metrics. What? Um Well, okay. So, there's no metrics and you can't measure them. Um so, you you don't have anybody to measure, so you can't audit them. Um okay. Well, that answers a lot. So, this clearly is an experiment. I don't think you're ready, Angela. And until you have answers that you can go as a professional, go to the council and tell them this is what we expect to get. My big issue is this. This city could be insolvent by, according to Vicki, who I have a lot of confidence in, could be insolvent by 2030,331. The city has no money. I'd like to see a costbenefit analysis of some of these, especially the bad actors, and you know as well as I do that it took an eternity. It took a tremendous amount of city resources to shut down some of these some of these establishments. There's no way in my opinion that they could have generated nearly enough uh income to justify the amount of city expenses um that these bad actors cost. So I'd really like to see are you will you do something like that? Do a costbenefit analysis as part of the metrics.

Uh it's up to council if they want to spend money on that then that's they are not the professionals. It's up to All right. You've answered my questions. I think that's pretty much it.

All right. Thank you, Art. And anyone else? Okay. Like I said, um this is a a pilot program, so we don't have all the answers right now. Um what we'd like to do is is to try this out and report back to council. Um, and again, we rely on the community. So, if there are bad operators, let us know and we can do our best to reach out to them as staff and say, "Hey, you know, we're getting a lot of complaints on this or this or this. Um, let's talk about what we can do to make you a better operator. Um, the better off you communicate with the city of Reno, the better we can communicate with the bar owners and hopefully find a place where you guys can can cohesively live together. Um, this is a 24-hour town and that's not going to change unless council changes that. And at this point, there's, I don't believe, any desire by our council to not make it a 24-hour town. So, our goal as planners is to find a way for you guys to live here and to operate live entertainment all night um in a way that that doesn't disturb the neighbors that you know, people that are in a hotel or people that are living here. Um, we want to make it a thriving downtown. We want to create a place where people from outside the area want to come to Reno because they like the 24-hour nightife and maybe they can't get it anywhere else because most bars across the nation close at 2 a.m. So that does make us unique and special and and we should do what we can to protect that. Um, so again, this is temporary pro um program. If it doesn't work, we can say we tried it and we can try something else next time. Um, like I said, use use that email, fouse a

reno.gov, check out that website. You can see the information provided and um hopefully we can can get to some resolution by the time this goes to council and and something that we can all be positive about. Um, the business community can support and the residents can support knowing they have some safeguards in place. So, with that, oh, looks like we have a couple more people. It looks like Edward Goodrich, you should be able to unmute on your end.

Yep. I keep seeing my icon. Okay. So, yeah. No, I think you guys have done a good job. I know it's originally started as a sound uh innovate, you know, a sound uh limitation against the residences there. But you know from the feedback that I heard in the meetings that I attended last year um it was you know security and you know use and time were the three main issues. It looks like this is addressing it. It's yeah opening it up but then again if you don't open it up you're not going to figure out what's wrong. I mean, that's part of the feedback you're going to get before you go back for the uh to the council that is for the 18month period, I believe, in this.

That's correct.

Yeah. So, you know, it's a fixed use and they're there your metrics will develop themselves. Anyhow, you know, I mean, I kind of look at look at it. The only weakness I can see is if you you know it's it's indoor, you should have a limitation of X number of decibb or floating factor um which I which I'm really in favor of you know at X point which uh looks like the 200 ft center line of four street and um I would say the oh boy River District I mean at first residential thing, you know, have something like, you know, 50 dB or something like that or, you know, 40 dB when it hits residential areas. I mean, that's, you know, because this is in down. It's inside only out outdoor is a different animal. I agree

and you're not have and you're not addressing this here. I can see that. Um, so you know, but other than that, I think it's, you know, it's good to experiment because you want a a a lively and vibrant downtown after dark. So, you know, I mean, that's that that I what I see goal is and where people will come and spend money, we hope. Yeah. All right. That's my that's my two cents. Give it to somebody else. All right. All right. So, we're gonna um I think Art um did you have one more comment, Art?

Yeah, I just you know I I think I think there I understand there a you know it's touted to be a 24-hour city and that's the way it's always been. It's 1950s mentality, but that's what it is. And I but I think there are ways to have these businesses coexist with residents. It's just a matter of really getting out there and really finding out what the answers are. And you really can't rely on counsel to do that. And I and again, I know you guys are understaffed. I sympathize. I've been there, too. But, um, just find the ways. Uh, if you need some help, we can, you know, I mean, you know, where some of the sound decel studies came from. It came from Gary Ceil. He went out on his own and found that these things were happening all over the place. Basically, it's an electronic dance music issue. Uh, and once you start getting that kind of noise, it kind of creates mayhem and creates the crime and all of that that goes with it. If you can minimize that, I think downtown will be a much much safer place than it is today. Anyway, thank you for your time.

Yep. All right. Thanks, Art. Okay. As long as we don't have anyone else from our list of attendees, we can let you go. Again, we appreciate everyone spending their Monday, whatever today is, Tuesday, Tuesday evening. What is today? Um, and if if you think of anything else you want to add, like I said, send it in that email and we'll make sure and include that with the public comment or if you just had a question, feel free to to send that over as well. We appreciate all of you and and look forward to hopefully working together as we get through this process. Thanks everyone. Thanks everyone.