Board of Health - Regular Meeting

This meeting is being recorded.

Alright, I will call the August 12th for Valley County Board of Health meeting order. Chris, you roll call Jeff Burrows.

I'm here, Doctor Turner. Greg Dowdy is excused. Lou Danes skip Chisholm here.

Alright, we're gonna open up for public comment. Any public comment? Yes Sir.

Hello again. Peter Steele, Ravalli County, resident dissident. Grace, would you do me a favor? Could you time me, let me know when I hit that three-minute mark?

Sure.

Thank you very much. I'm going to change it up instead of just extemporaneously telling you everything I have in my mind. I'm going to do my best to just give you a quick synopsis of this fantastic book that I read in the last month, The Moth and the Iron Lung by Forrest Moretti. Really interesting. I'm going to give you the back cover here and then I'll do what I can to make it brief. The Moth and the Iron Lung, a fascinating account of the world's most famous disease, polio. Told as you have never heard it before, epidemics of paralysis began to rage in the early 1900s, seemingly out of nowhere. Doctors, parents, and health officials were at a loss to explain why this formerly unheard of disease began paralyzing so many children. usually starting in their legs, sometimes moving through their abdomen and arms. For an unfortunate few, it could also paralyze the muscles that allowed them to breathe. Why did this disease start to become such a horrible problem during the late 1800s? Why did it affect children more than adults? Why was it originally called teething paralysis by mothers and their doctors? Why were animals so often paralyzed during the epidemics when it was later discovered that most animals could not become infected? The Moth in the Iron Lung is a fascinating biography of a horrible paralytic disease. Where it came from and why it disappeared in the 1950s If you've never explored the polio story beyond the tales of crippled children and iron lungs, this book will be sure to surprise. The Moth and the Iron Lung. After the Reformation of the United States, following the Civil War, silk production was at an all-time high, and therefore caterpillar moths were needed, I should say caterpillars, to generate silk. They were experimenting with different varieties of caterpillars. One in particular, the gypsy moth, had been brought over from Europe and was being kept in-house by a man named Etienne Trevelo. Etienne unfortunately set those moth eggs on his windowsill one day and inadvertently they blew off and became, well, epidemic in proportions. Those moths later hatched, or I should say those eggs later hatched, became caterpillars And the caterpillars went rampant and started chewing up just about everything in sight. All of the foliage throughout Medford, Massachusetts was at risk. A little bit of context and backing up. In the early 1800s, arsenical and mercurial medicines were all the rage. We used arsenic and mercury to treat disease at that time. Given what we knew, it only made sense. Interestingly, Arsenic was used in other industrial applications, including one particular formulation for wallpaper known as Paris Green. When the coddling moth started to rage throughout the Northeast and eating all the foliage, people were literally pulling them off of their houses in buckets and burning them. When that got out of control and the effort was too great for them to overcome, they began using Paris Green, an arsenic-based paint. in order to douse the foliage and hopefully kill the codling moth. Gypsy moths began to appear, and it created the same problem. The biggest problem with Paris green, aside from the arsenic, was the fact that it was water soluble. In order to get it to stick to the plants and onto the foliage on which it was applied, it was later figured out that we could add lead to the substance. Lead arsenate became the premier pesticide for the next 50 years. We put it on everything to the point where literally we had poems about the importance of dousing every bit of foliage and every plant and every vegetable with lead arsenate in order to keep those nasty pests at bay. Lead arsenate, obviously toxic, began to deteriorate the immune systems of particularly children and everybody that was consuming the fruits and vegetables covered in it.

CHRIS LORENZO- Chris gave me the signal that you hit three.

CHRIS LORENZO- I hit three. My goodness. I'll try to sum it up. So the lead arsenate was eventually replaced by DDT. DDT was so widespread that you can actually find propaganda films from that time period today, which we would call advertisements, showing the harmless nature of DDT, and us dowsing children swimming in pools and dowsing picnic tables with families dining at them with this DDT fog. All of these attempts to eradicate pests deteriorated the immune system of the individuals exposed and allowed enteroviruses, which poliovirus is a particular part of the enterovirus family, to permeate the stomach lining and thereby potentially infecting the spinal column. Just for a little bit of etymological reference, polio simply means gray. It is referring to the spinal column and the gray material comprises your spinal cord. Polio is caused by creating fissures in your spinal column. They predicted, or at least speculated, that it was these enteroviruses, poliovirus in particular, that was able to somehow transmit from the stomach through the body to the lower spinal column and begin the process of degradation, which led to paralysis. I highly recommend everybody take a moment or probably about 20 hours to read, The Moth and the Iron Lung, because they will see that, unfortunately, our best intentions tend to lead to unintended consequences, which we then cover up with another best practice at the time. DDT, as we know today, is certainly toxic and certainly causes issues. The erasure of DDT from our arsenal of pesticides is as a result of the fact that we recognize that DDT was causing issues. It happened to coincide with the polio vaccine introduction in the early 1950s by Jonas Salk. Jonas Salk used a dead polio virus that had been harvested from Vero monkey kidney cell cultures. Inadvertently, and in retrospect, we learned that Those kidney cell cultures contained SV40, simian virus 40, which we know to cause cancer. Of course, we dosed everybody with a cancer causing molecule in order to eradicate polio. When Jonas Salk's vaccine failed, Albert Sabin's vaccine was put forward. It also contained SV40. We created a soft tissue cancer epidemic by issuing vaccines that contained SV40. We put it in millions of people, and we realized it only after the fact. To sum up, we have found in the last few years that the COVID vaccines also contained SB40. Again, I understand our best intentions, but they lead to unintended consequences, and some of the most well-intended people in the world have paved the pathway to hell. Enjoy this book. It is my gift to Ravalli County. I hope everybody here takes the 20 hours or so to read it. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Hey, Peter? Peter? Yes. I just wanted to thank you for bringing up DDT because not just our human population was subject to the destruction of of different kinds by DDT, but also our wildlife populations, especially migratory waterfowl and precious birds like eagles and different parts of our biodiversity. And so that's something that people need to be aware of and all get on board about being careful in the future about what we let happen at that kind of a magnitude. Absolutely.

Thanks for bringing it up. I would put forth that glyphosate, which is literally raining out of the air at this point because of the fact that we apply so much so prevalently across all of our grasslands and our forests because we don't like those noxious weeds that look out of place. Bend over and pull it out. Don't spray it, right? Is that the active ingredient in roundup glyphosate? Yeah, that's the active ingredient.

One makes sure everybody understood what that was.

Right. And it's all over all of our food products. And we ingest it constantly. And we ask, why are we diseased? Why are we immunodeficient? Why are we absorbing cancer? There are unintended consequences of good intentions. I understand that. I think the best thing we can do is educate ourselves on the past so that we don't repeat the mistakes in the future.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Thanks, Peter. Any other public comment? Thank you, sir.

Roger Mitchell from Stevensville. I don't claim to be a resident dissident, but maybe I am. Anyway, I just wanted to bring you up to date on what we did at the fair last week. A number of us were there, and we set up a booth relating to the issue of geoengineering, weather modification, what we call chemtrails, which some people call contrails, but we were there for four days. We had a really good response to that, and most of the people who stopped there were at least interested in it, some quite easily in favor of our position, some were hesitant. Some didn't know anything about it. We had one couple which was aggressively hostile and abusive. That's neither here nor there, but that's the way it is. I appreciate you allowing me this opportunity to talk. And I would like to build on what Peter said just a minute ago. I wasn't aware of what he was going to express but this idea about spraying DDT and glyphosate everything like that out of the air because it's it's damaging the environment is exactly what we were at the fair for last week and my main theme for myself personally was to talk to people about what these, and I'm gonna call them chemtrails, whether that's accurate or not, but what these chemtrails are comprised of, what is in them, and the state of Montana in the Constitution, Article Two, Section Three, guarantees that every person in Montana has a right to a clean and healthful environment, And my question is, what is in those things, those white streaks that they are spraying across the sky? We don't know for sure. I don't know whether there's ever been a detailed analysis of that, but suspicions run pretty high. Aluminum, barium, strontium, coal fly ash, manganese, everything like that, all toxic metals. And the thing is, they spray them up there, the rain comes along, snow comes along, gravity, they filter down to the ground. And whatever they touch, they affect in one way or another. If they are nothing more than water vapor, which some people are pretty adamant about stating, then we have nothing to worry about. But on the other hand, if there is something more than water vapor, but they're and they come down and they land on the ground and they land in our rivers and they land on our cattle and we breed them in and if there is anything there which is toxic, all of that affects us. And if the state of Montana guarantees that we have the right to a clean and healthful environment and it is being abused and trespassed on, that I want to know about it. I want to know what is in those chemtrails. And I want to know what we can do to bring an end to it if, and I stress if, there is something going on there which is not helpful and good for the environment. Because just like with the DDT and Agent Orange in Vietnam and the glyphosate which is being sprayed now, If that stuff is, if they're putting things in the air which is going to affect us adversely, we need to know about it. We need to be able to do something about it, and we have to take action because otherwise it's just going to continue on. It probably will get worse. That is basically my statement, and I appreciate your time.

Hey, Roger. Scott, one quick one for you. You mentioned there was a couple companies that was adverse? Were they adverse to or agreeing with your theories at the booth? Because I saw your booth, and I thought the material you put out there was what at least gave people a reason to think. So I was wondering, were they hostile because they didn't like your presentation at the booth?

I think they were. They really didn't give us a chance to talk. They just came up and started just shouting and getting in our face. We tried repeatedly to calm them down, to talk with them, but it was like, you guys, you this, you that. And basically, they basically said and insinuated, expressed, in no uncertain terms, that they did not like what we were doing for some reason or other. I don't know why.

GENE MCKOWNSEN- Why don't you tell them there was other booths to go to so they could do something else instead of hanging around at your booth, that's all.

GENE MCKOWNSEN- Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like one of the fellows there, Paul Bean, came from Vermont. You met him. GENE MCKOWNSEN- I met him, yeah. GENE MCKOWNSEN- I mean, he talked with them for a minute or two. And he just said, look, I'm not going to talk to you anymore. Just go away. like that i mean that's how bad it was and i found paul to be as reasonable to communicate with as anybody there so but that comes to the territory thanks for your answer paul had a wonderful scientific background thank you sure okay thank you thanks roger any other public comment all right

First item is the approval of the minutes from July. I move they be approved.

Second.

Moved and seconded to approve the July minutes as written. Is there any public comment on that motion? Any discussion? All those in favor signify with aye. Aye. Opposed? None. Motion carries. Is there any correspondence?

Yes. Okay. You sent that out. You want to talk to him about it?

No. I just sent out a copy of a notice from DEQ regarding, I believe it's the reissuance of a Montana groundwater pollution control system. So like just for the septic system, the community septic system for one horse estates. So they're just asking for any comments if there is any.

One horse that's up in Florence. The subdivision of it.

Oh. It's not a new license, it's just a reissuance.

Is that something that happens every so often on those?

Yeah, it's on a schedule for that. Make sure that you're not putting more than what you're supposed to.

Is that one of the, not a lot of subdivisions like that are set up that way, is it? No, not a lot, no. Okay, thank you.

Okay. All right, department reports, health nurse. Hi. Good afternoon.

Hi. Okay, you know what I want to talk about?

Maybe the parade.

Yeah.

Money? You want money?

Nope. Nope, I got money. No, I don't have any money. No, we spent the August pretty much focused on getting the county parade off the ground and going. And I just want to say I think it was a huge success. We didn't have any incidents of injury, which was our big focus this year. We did learn a few things. We're going to have to step up some of our security on the main street between 4th and 2nd pretty much. the tape was down and kids were like an arm's length away from cars. I mean literally on the street, an arm's length away from cars. I think we're gonna have to really get more volunteers next year and we're gonna have to have more of those eight foot metal barriers we'll borrow from Robert's run and then I think the best course of action is to get a bunch of really mean old grandmas like me and we will be stationed out there because while we had rules for not throwing any candy I mean people still threw candy because they can't read I guess I don't know but we still had a lot of candy throwing and unfortunately when candy goes in the streets so do kids and they just broke down those tape barriers, and they were right in the street.

And so my- So more fun police at the parade as well.

Well, what we need are those grandmas. I know Jennifer Ray volunteered for next year. She'd be perfect. Brooke. Seen Brooke with a broom? Holy moly. That's what we need. We need just more. people lining on the street to try and keep those children back out of the street. Because I was just mortified. I'm like, how many parents are standing there with their kids arm's length away from a vehicle that's passing by? Fire trucks were throwing hats out the window. And so we have a little more tougher security that we're going to need to do because I really truly believe that if we have a single incident, the parade will be done. We won't be able to afford the liability insurance, I'm certain. And so it's hugely successful. Everyone had so much fun. There were tons of people. The flag at the end of the street was just off the rails if you didn't see it. That was super cool.

Can I make a suggestion? How about having the candy throwers throw it further?

Well, the rule was that you could pass it out. You could walk along the side of your float and pass it out, and somehow it still lands in the street. And then you just have entities like the fire department who just threw the stuff from their car anyway. Just to take that.

Is there someone we can contact from the fire department to inform them?

Oh, they'll be informed. They were informed at the time. I think people see us as like we're the fun police and we're trying to take away everyone's fun. But honestly, if somebody gets hurt, we won't have a parade. I mean, honestly, the candy was ridiculous. I saw kids with grocery sacks full of candy. I was the last up the route. And it was just like grocery bags and buckets full of candy. They got more candy on that day than they do on Halloween, and they have to work for that candy. They had to walk the streets to get it. This was just like, give us a candy. And I'm happy for them. It's a fun time for everybody, but we don't want anyone to get hurt. And so we have some ideas about how we're going to make it a little more difficult for them to run into the street, which is all we're asking is like, Can't you just keep your kid out of the street? I'm trying to think what else. I think it went pretty good. We didn't have any fights or incidents of injury or the special interest group, they all got along. Nobody had to be dispatched to that area. The other big thing for our community is the animal bites and communicable disease. Animal bites, I mean, five cases was all we had for last month, and most of them, I think only one of them was an actual dog at large. The rest were like, I was giving Fluffy the cat or medicine, and it bit me. So that's good. We're glad to see that. Rabies, we still had to make six recommendations, because the bats are out of control this summer. I've never seen so much bat activity. CHRIS JERRAM, Bats bites. Exposures, yeah. A person, either a bat flew down at them or I got a good one. This person woke up and their bat was in bed with them. It was in the bed with them. Yes, in the house, in their bed. And, of course, he scooped it up and took it outside and he put it on the porch and was going to go get something to put it in. When he came back, the bat had flown off. So, of course, we had to recommend Pep to that person. that's a definite exposure if you don't know. But yeah, and we've actually had cases of bats that we sent off that are rabbits, so we are seeing a lot more activity this year, and I don't know why that would be. Communicable disease-wise, I only heard one complaint about the fair. I only had one person call and say they got sick at the fair, and I referred them to Jenny, and I haven't had a chance to catch up with Jenny to see if If she had any real complaints.

I talked to Chelsea and she did follow up with the lady. Okay. There was no other reports of sickness. By the time I think they got a hold of each other, they were doing better.

That's really hard to pin down anyway. I mean like.

Especially in the same house.

I know. And like I noticed like the hand sanitizers were all out at the fair. Like we walked through the animal barn and my grandkids are like, touching everything, and I'm like, hand sanitizer, hand sanitizer, and of course there's none in the little things, so, you know, just gives more work for us to do, thanks.

Well, you know, farm kids are used to touching animals.

Yeah, my grandkids aren't farm kids, and you know, they just like, handling the chickens and handling the baby calf and it was licking them and I was just like. Anyway, and then communicable diseases reported, our numbers are still pretty low right now. STDs was only six, we'll see, give us about Two weeks after the carnival, we'll see. We always see a spike right after the carnival. I don't know why. And that's all I have.

I have a question for you, if I may.

Is it easy?

Well, I don't know. How smart are you? So this has to do with something that's going on today in Missoula, which is a... A whole bunch of different groups getting together, led by the Attorney General's office. Austin Knutson put something together. It's all about opiates and any kind of derivatives here in the state of Montana. And I was wondering if our chief medical officer was by chance aware of it or going to it. And it has, a lot of it had to do with, and they even had a whole half hour segment this morning on the radio about it, live at the conference with the Deputy Attorney General. And it had to do with Kratom and 70H, which Todd did a great job with the presentation here, especially with the interaction from Stacy Zen, who was, for I think 10 years, was the chief of the DEA here in the state of Montana. But I was wondering if you had heard anything about this conference that's going on today about opiates. And if you haven't, you haven't. But I was glad that they put something together. And then they focused so much time on something that's so easy to fix, and it's 7-0-H and create them. So I didn't know if you knew about it or had any more information.

I didn't know about the conference, but you're talking more on the law enforcement side?

No, it's put on by them, and there's a lot of people that are medical professionals that also add to the mix of solving this problem in the state of Montana and setting a good example for the future.

Yeah, I don't know if Todd's been involved with that or not. I did see that he mentioned Kratom in his report, but I'm not aware of that. It's not on my radar for public health. We're pretty focused on the handful of things that the commission likes us to stay focused on, and that's what we do. The Kratom, I do get notified of any overdoses that are happening in our community. There's an app that I have that just lets us know when we've had overdoses and what have you, but mostly for us here in Ravalli County, that's all falling under the sheriff's office.

How often do you see those reports of overdoses?

Not often. It's been pretty quiet this summer. I want to say I've only seen maybe two.

So it's unusual in our community, at least the reported ones.

At least the reported ones, yes.

It would be fine if we never hear about it here, but there's been like 31 deaths from it, especially the synthetic over 10 years here. So thank you, ma'am.

Yep.

I just wanted to hit a couple things. I wanted to comment on Director Weber's leadership on the parade. It was really a pleasure for Jeff and I to work on the project. It's kind of a planned event is what you'd call it, and good experience in incident command and coordination. I would echo that it went really well. And then, I don't know, might be taking it out of order, but Jeff is not able to be here today for the FEP report. I think he submitted his materials of what he's been working on. We've been, both of us have kind of been working closely with the Western Montana Healthcare Coalition. They've had quite a turnover in some of their staff. that position's vacant now, but kind of looking for them to fill that and be able to continue the coordination with them in the future. So I think that's what I got. Good work. Appreciate your help on the parade.

Absolutely.

I couldn't have done it without you.

Thanks, guys.

I'll wait for you, Jenna.

Emta.

I'll stay with you.

Okay. Hi, guys.

Good afternoon.

Good to see you. I don't have a lot to report since it was summer and kids were at home, or at least not at school. But I did have, I did work at the fair with Bidroot Cares Coalition, and we had the hidden in plain sight trailer, which was really cool. Basically it was an enclosed trailer that was set up to look like a bedroom, like a teen's bedroom, and inside the trailer were hidden substances, mostly vapes and vape products, but other substances as well. And we just had the parents go through and see how many they could locate. Usually, you would only locate around five or six. There were up to 20 devices and things hidden in the room. So it kind of just gave them good information and what to look for. We also gave them signs to look for, like teens being a little bit more cryptic or just a little bit more like... permit-like, hanging out in the room, not being their usual self, maybe smelling a little different. So we had babes that they could kind of smell not only the fruity smell, but that underlying nicotine smell, the chemical smell from it. So we had a pretty good turnout from that, a lot of positive feedback. Um, we, I also worked the fair parade and I also heard a ton of compliments and I swear Tiffany's not paying me to say this or anything, but I did hear a lot of people on the bystands, um, saying how well it went and also how much candy we got. Sawyer went home with a lot of candy. Um, there was a lot of candy. It was good. Um, I facilitated three in-depth classes this summer, mostly kids who had gotten caught towards the end of the school year. We are working with Bitterroot Cares to establish REACT groups, which are peer-led prevention groups focused primarily on tobacco and nicotine. We have three schools committed, Victor, Stevensville, and Florence Middle Schools. I've already presented and Steve I'll be in Florence schools tomorrow all day presenting and signing kids up for that. We've had a lot of positive feedback with that as well. A lot of kids really interested. Other than that I've been doing trainings. I finished my Mayo Clinic tobacco treatment specialist training this summer and also graduated with my substance use counseling degree.

Good for you. That's amazing.

So I'm looking forward to applying the knowledge and experience I've learned from those courses to my work here in prevention.

That's why they pay you the big bucks.

That's what they say.

All the products were deactivated before we hit them.

They were deactivated and disabled, so there was no sticky fingers or anyone making off with products.

And the candy was just candy. Yeah.

I have a question for you. Do you have any idea... the vaping level in the schools now compared to a year ago and maybe a year before that?

I don't have that information. I would say right now our statistic, and it's a couple years old, is one in four Montana teens, and that's very generalized across Montana. When I do say that in schools, I kind of gauge the student's response and say, do you feel like that number is high or do you feel like that number is low? just based on their perspective. It varies by school and by age level, but I would say a majority of them feel like the number's fairly accurate.

And is that fairly accurate for all grade levels or more for the older kids?

It's more for the older kids. However, we are seeing kids start as young as 5th and 6th grade. Mm-hmm.

Thank you. And you haven't seen any decrease in the MIPs or anything like that? That's been kind of steady, hasn't it?

It has been pretty steady, but we've only had one return MIP. So, yeah. I have them take a little survey after the classes, and they do feel like it's a pretty informative class. They aren't always aware of all the things in the vape. And we go through, like, we go through what is addiction, your brain development, what is in a vape, what is the history of tobacco. It's a pretty intensive class. And the teens take it and give them a little quiz in the end. It seems like they're listening and learning.

Do you think that the parents of all these kids that are vaping at incredibly young ages, do you think they're either unaware or oblivious or don't care or – Is there something you're finding that we can do a better job getting the parents to say, look, they want to be involved? Or maybe they don't. Are you finding anything about the parents?

Yeah, I would say that most of the time it's more being unaware of what products are out there, what to look for, and how easy the products are for kids to get these days.

I don't know that it's that they don't care. That's why I was wondering, you know, it's like... It's not a news story. It's as old as time. You just have parents that are checked out.

I mean, you're a grandparent of a parent that has children. So do you think most of the parents have the attitude that your daughter or son would have?

I think most parents do.

They care.

Yeah. They have open dialogue and conversation.

But the kids are fooling them.

Some cases, yeah. Yeah, I think that, I mean, nobody wants to think their kid would be hiding something. I'm a parent of teenagers. I also would say I would hope my kids would come to me and they wouldn't be hiding something. But teens are known to be rebellious and want to try new things. And it's just our job on the prevention side to educate them before they even try it. Because once they try it, it's just such a slippery slope to addiction.

Now, some of the kids get this over the internet. How do they buy that? Do they have their own credit cards? Or how does that work?

Yeah, kids are getting younger and younger. They're getting debit cards. I know my own kids have had a Greenlight debit card since they were 13. That luckily with that I can monitor where they're spending their money it notifies me right away, but I mean kids are able to get debit cards pretty easily. Or, if you have one friend who has a debit card they may buy several and then you'll pay that friend cash or they're taking. One of my recent MIPs, they had taken their uncle's vape from the house. So they're, you know, I feel like the story is.

Yeah, I understand how they could swipe it from somebody or get it from a friend. But I guess I didn't realize 13-year-olds had debit cards. Well, they can get.

It wouldn't be that hard to take a parent's debit card number.

Kids are resourceful.

Yeah, but didn't you?

But there's also a lot of them. This is also getting over into law enforcement in that whole area. There's also this whole gamut of trading Snapchat pictures for alcohol and faith.

I'm learning a lot. And all they have to do is check a box that says they're 18 or over, even if they're 13?

Yeah, they are trying to get a little bit stricter on that. I have heard from some kids that they do have, some kids do have fake IDs and they're going to local dispensaries. So there's a whole mess of ways kids are finding vapes online.

But is it principally vape as opposed to cigarettes?

Yeah, I've actually only had one cigarette in my pee, and he started smoking cigarettes after vapes were too expensive to keep up.

Now, is there any correlation between parents using tobacco and kids smoking?

I do have, when I do my intake, I do interview with the parents, and there are quite a few that do either chew or smoke cigarettes, some that vape. But I wouldn't say, like, it's 100%. If a parent is smoking or vaping that their kid is, it seems to be pretty varied.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, guys.

You had a certification and a graduation? Congratulations.

Thank you.

question I don't think we have can we reach out yeah let's reach out to him I know there was a specific question that we had and that was in regards to gain a function but I forgot what this specific question was that we had for him

Can we follow up with him and invite him to?

Peter? Yeah, let's see if he can come to October for the health meeting and answer those questions that we had for him last time.

There was a series of questions, Peter, that he said he couldn't answer because of, I think, the NIH.

Yeah, he's limited on what he can say, and there's security concerns, and that's understandable. But I think that at this point, the cat is out of the bag.

You think?

I think we may have a suspicion that dual use of research of concern is going on at Rocky Mountain Laboratory. If he wants to address that, we'd appreciate it. If he doesn't, that's fine. We already have thousands and thousands and thousands of pages supporting our questions.

So let's ask Dr. Bloom and then the commander that was here with him, because she seemed to maybe have a little more authority to answer questions. So let's invite them back and see if they'll come. And ask them to... answer those specific questions that you were going to get back to us on. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yep. John?

Yep. I'll be quick. We have about 11 properties left in groundwater monitoring through this week, and I think we're going to be discontinuing some of that still, so we're going to be even less going forward to next week. Fair came and went as Tiffany spoke about it. We had one reported illness. We followed up on it. There was no other additional illnesses related to that or any other illnesses that's been reported to our office. I think the fair went fairly well as far as our office is concerned. Jenny, before opening, went around, put up the flyers that if you have any concerns regarding Any other food vendors or any concerns that they can contact that phone number that was on that sheet of paper. I don't know if you guys saw that around the fair, but a lot of that stuff was handled even well before fair started. A lot of the plan reviews for temporary food booths. food safety classes. So it just came down to the day of opening or maybe a few vendors the night before doing inspections for those booths as they were getting ready.

Yeah.

Thanks, John.

All right. We'll jump into old business, and first is the Big Sky Church update. Maybe we'll go to Jennifer if you want to give an update, please.

we are still in the Supreme Court with our appeal we have an extension which I'll be filing that brief this month in response to their opening brief and then we are scheduled tomorrow to do the inspection on the property to see what what type of septic system or if there is one there so that'll give us a lot of insight So rounds are scheduled at 9, and Jeff's going to go, and I'll go, and Kelly will go.

Excuse me. What's going to be involved with the inspection?

Camering the system.

Oh, the camera system. Okay, so we're going to be able to look down those bikes and see what's down there.

You're going?

I'll go out there.

Good. Yeah, they'll probably pump at the very least the very last tank so that they can go from the outlet of that, follow that, and see where it leads to if it has a distribution box or just a manifold or seepage pit and see where that ends up and then open that up and then go from there.

Because we really don't know what's where. Right. But with a camera, we'll know. We'll have an idea. Thank you. All right.

Update on compliance order issued for 9-1-2-0-0-0.

All right, Tootie's on the line here. Hi, Tootie.

Hi. Which one is this? It's very low.

I cannot hear you clearly.

Can you address?

No, it's still low, but I'll try my best to listen to you.

So what's the status? It looks like your attorney is that Trevor, is that correct?

Yeah, Trevor Carlson, yes.

All right, Mr. Carlson, what's the status of the evictions and the issues that we're having out there?

Yeah, so the eviction notice expired and we sent off, we filed the lawsuit, sent that off to the sheriff's office and the court on August 31st. I haven't heard back as to who they've gotten served yet, but presumably they're in the process of doing that. And so things are moving along right on track.

As far as you know, what remains out there as far as occupied buildings and number of people on the property?

Well, the last I heard...

Looks like he froze.

The last I heard there was, we have six individuals named in the lawsuit. And then additionally, 2D Stepson as well. So that's seven. So as far as I know, there's seven individuals that we're going after for eviction that, you know, I don't know if some of those have minor children or not. If they do, they're included in that when we evict you know, the parent.

Okay. Any questions, comments? So by October, Board of Health meeting, you think we'll have some resolution?

I'm going to have a clear picture. You know, I don't know about a resolution. It's going to depend on how long the sheriff's office takes to get everybody served. And then they have 10 days to file an answer. If they don't file an answer, we can ask the court for a default judgment. If somebody does file an answer, then the court will set a hearing date on that. I don't know whether that hearing date will... you know, be before the October meeting or not. It just kind of depends on, you know, like I say, how fast everybody gets served and whether or not they file a response.

Yeah. Can you be back on October 14th and give us a status update?

Let me take a look at my calendar.

yes okay and it'll probably be about this same time so if you don't want to sit through the entire beginning of the meeting we most likely won't get to you before 1 30 so i'd say if you were on by 1 30 that should be plenty adequate uh and even if you get on later now we can just kind of jump you in whenever you guys jump on and we'll get to you the next item so you don't have to sit for an hour through the board of health meetings so

That sounds great. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, guys.

I just want to add that actually Travis took the money. He tried to pay that for the whole three months, which is supposed to be $2,200 per month, but he only paid $3,321. and he text that he said, oh, I will let you know when the money clear. So he has account with his dad, my husband, Gary Roque. And then couple of days later, his wife, he instructed his wife to take the money, all of them, so. Yeah, so he doesn't make any payment. This month will be the fourth month. So I really want him to go. He also have the utilities under our name. So it is 58 years old and cannot have his name. Come on, he's such a loser. So I really want him, to be out the property and taking care of all of his mess. It has been too long since last year. So this is delay, delay, and delay. And I am getting tired to have him living for free. And I'm 72 years old. I am still working so I can make the payment of the mortgage. I believe that is not fair. So I want all of them out as soon as possible.

All right. Well, thank you, ma'am, and look forward to the update in October.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right. All right. Slowly but surely. Old business number three, update compliance order issued 8-12-26 for parcel 158-000.

So the compliance order was signed and sent last week, and I believe May is.

Do we have somebody here representing this property? Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Is that this is your property or?

It is in the state of my late husband's. Could you pull up to that mic?

We can barely hear you. Thank you.

It's my late husband's estate. It's still in probate.

Okay.

I was told at the last court in July when I was here that no rulings could be made as long as it was still in probate. According to you guys also I was ordered to drill my own well get my own well on my property which is that's been my sole directive this whole summer because we've had gone three months without water having to haul our own water because of in-laws turning the water off on me and so I That's my spend my sole directive is just to try to get us back in water. I'm aware of your other the other things that you want going on. But I wasn't here last month because my mother was in an emergency state and I left to go see her. I was told by Kelly that she would send me the results of the the meeting. I asked her to send to me by email. And I watched my email all month long. I didn't receive anything. And it wasn't until yesterday I got the letter saying that you guys had already ruled on my case. And to tell you the truth, I feel like what's going on here is that I'm being selectively targeted and the other thing that I'm concerned about is the fact that Greg Dowdy is on this board and he is directly related and too close to the process of what's going on. His land is kitty corner to mine and he's in, he has constant contact with the rest of the family who have made the complaints, and the fact that I didn't even know he was on the board until the first day I was here. I heard him be excused, but I wasn't aware that he was listening in the whole time. He should have recused himself from the beginning.

He did recuse himself from the beginning.

Then why was he listening?

For him to hear the information has no bearing on the decision that this board made. So unequivocally I can say that Greg Dowdy has had no influence over the decision. And he's not here today. He's not here today.

Yeah, because after that I asked that he be recused.

He recused himself before that. So I can say that you're not being targeted and Greg has in no way influenced this decision.

Well, I'd also like to say, too, that the situation that was originally the complaint came in about has been mostly taken care of. And, I mean, some of it has.

Can we just start at the beginning real quick? What is out there? What is the property permitted for? One dwelling. It also has a DEQ approval for just one dwelling. So it's permitted for one dwelling. How many bedrooms? Three, one three bedroom. So one three bedroom. What exists on the property today for living units?

In 2007, my husband built another small guest house.

On top of the one three bedroom that exists?

No, on a different part of the property.

In addition to. In addition to, okay. So there's one three-bedroom house plus a one-bedroom dwelling?

It's a two-bedroom.

Oh, so plus a two-bedroom.

Except it.

And what else exists? Any trailers, RVs being lived in?

There's an old mobile home that hasn't been lived in for four years, which we're in the process of trying to get demolished and taken out.

Nobody lives in there?

No.

So there's a mobile with no living and no other RVs or trailers on the property?

No. There is now an RV from one of my son-in-laws that is there, but it's completely dry camping. They have everything completely contained. There's no, they... Is that that RV that's down there?

These are photos that were submitted to DEQ that was forwarded to our office. Just to let everybody know.

Yeah, I can see it now. Yes.

That's your son's trailer?

My son-in-law. Your son-in-law. It is completely contained. He has all the stuff for his waste and everything that he puts it in a thing. He hauls it away and he takes it down to Black Rabbit or whatever and dumps it.

So he's living on the property in this? Yes. Okay.

Now, are there any other accommodations of any sort?

No.

So right now, there is a three-bedroom house, a two-bedroom guest cabin, and your son. My son-in-law. And your son's place has no water going in, water going out? No. Okay.

No.

Is that your understanding of what's out there then?

Yeah, and then there's a... What's this one?

There's a mobile home right next to Bowman. That is my other son-in-law's father. He had bought a trailer. He bought this trailer. He lives in a trailer court in Corvallis. And he bought that one intending to move to Missoula and put it in a trailer in a court up there. And then after he bought it, then he found out that he lost... the spot in Missoula, but he had to get that out of there. So he asked if he could just set it there temporarily while he's trying to find another lot somewhere in the valley.

But nobody lives in that?

No, no, it's just a temporary resting spot.

So how long are you planning on having your son in the RV in the two bedroom that don't have septic systems? Is this temporary?

No, the two bedroom has a septic system.

The house.

Not permitted. Oh, you just put one in.

My husband put them in. But everybody, his brothers, the ones that made the complaints, they all put them all in illegally to start with. And all these years, my husband and his brothers, I mean, he's the one that's taking care of it. My husband was a plumber. He knew what he was doing. He put it in. And Dirk Wolf, his best friend, who you guys know does a lot of the work for the city. I wasn't paying attention to all that stuff when that was going on.

I'm sorry, can I ask you a question? Is this two-bedroom guest home, is it connected to the same system the three-bedroom is? No, it has its own system. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we're getting everything up to date. It's completely independent. But it just never got permitted is what you're saying?

It just never got permitted. And I left that stuff up to my husband. And then just like a year before he passed, there was talk about everything and the water situation and the well that we were on with the other brothers, we've been on for like 25 years. And there's never been an issue with that. It was supplying our houses just fine.

So you had a shared well between multiple parcels.

We had a shared well. And my husband had had meetings with his brothers and other things. He comes home, he tells me, We're okay, we've been on, we're grandfathered in, they can't shut our water off. And then he said the same with the septic system. And so that's the last thing I heard about it until I started getting contacted by you guys.

When was the two bedroom built?

In 2007.

2007.

And my daughter and her children, my daughter, her husband, three children live there now. That septic has been regularly maintained and it has never ever had an issue with anything coming to the surface. And because of this now, I am having a, I know of an engineer, a septic engineer that I'm having come.

You'd think, I mean, your husband being a plumber probably should have known we had septic permitting in Ravalli County, right?

He did, but like I said.

So he did know, it was just kind of like we don't want to do, or could you not?

I think, I don't know. I don't know. I wasn't, him and all his brothers, they're all in the plumbing. They all did it. Look at all the people in Pinesdale. How many systems in Pinesdale aren't permitted or haven't been permitted?

Well, that has nothing to do. We're really discussing your system right now.

Yeah, I'm just saying.

And I'm not, you know, I'm sure there are a lot of unpermitted systems, but

Okay, and that comes back to mind.

We have a complaint about your system, and we need to get you up to date on doing it the right way.

Yeah, and that complaint I would like to say, put on record, is... in-laws being petty and trying to cause trouble for me.

It's in-laws being petty, but we can agree that there's still an illegal system out there.

Yes, and I can agree with that, too. But you guys are aware of what my situation is now. I've just barely been made known of this as of the 1st of June. And then I have all this laid on top of me that I have to do all this stuff. I have to drill a new well.

and so working towards a solution can is there a possibility of getting the second system permitted uh they're going to have to go through deq review and i think you had mentioned uh you are going to be speaking with an engineer yes to go through i hadn't talked to him yet because i didn't find out that you guys had already ruled till yesterday and i've just been focused on the well

But I do know of somebody who is. I mean, he doesn't live right here in town. He'll have to come from out of town. But since I got the letter, I'm like, okay, it looks like I've got to get somebody in and have that done now.

And like we talked about earlier this afternoon, there's a date on there, but this is great that you're actually here to talk to the board.

I knew there was a date, but the last I remember hearing from you guys was we can't rule until it's out of probate. So...

Who said that, or where did that come from? Do you know?

I don't know who said it. I just remember hearing it said that we can't make a decision on it until it's out of probate.

Okay. Let's kind of cut to the chase here. You have some concerns about the well, and you have two systems. One has a permit. One does not have a permit. You're going to contact an engineer. When are you going to do that?

As soon as possible. I'm just only since yesterday did I find out the ruling.

Okay, let's make a decision right now. When are you going to contact the engineer?

I'll try to get hold of him today, tomorrow, whatever.

Okay, so can we say that you're going to contact the engineer this week and you'll be back in a month, okay? Because winter's coming. Okay. And we need to get him with a plan for you next month. Does that sound fair?

First submission.

I have a couple questions, though, for that.

Take the mic.

To agree to that, can you tell me is the second house, which is a two-bedroom, Is that a rental, or do you have family in there?

It's always been, we called it the guest house, but it's always been two of my different daughters that lived in it. One daughter at one time, she moved out, and now another daughter and her kids and her husband.

And it's on its own system that somebody put in and didn't care about the permitting system because they just felt like it was going to do what they wanted for a septic system and And then the only permit is for the three bedroom main house. Is that correct, sir? Because I mean, I can certainly have sympathy for your situation. I, what I care about mostly is that are the systems adequate for the, for the property, even though they're not permitted because like Dr. Turner said, we're coming on to winter. We've got to straighten this stuff out. And, um, and just stick to the rules as close as possible. So, I mean, you're in a tough situation.

And, you know, we can do certain things, but you violated the DEQ, and they have to do things, and they take a little bit longer than we do.

What was the DEQ? The subdivision approval on the property of just one dwelling.

I didn't violate it. My husband did. I didn't know anything about it. And now I'm here to have to deal with it.

But it's your problem now.

Yeah.

That's what I'm trying to say. It's your problem now. And what were you going to say, John? I'm sorry.

Oh, so we're just going to amend it. conditions for the compliance order, so by the next Board of Health meeting on October 14th.

What's realistic for timeframes now to march through getting an engineered design and then getting to... What's a realistic timeline there, sir?

I've been telling people don't expect much within a year.

You're like swinging really low, though.

Are you familiar with this property? Oh, no, different on the agenda, okay. Mm-hmm.

It's been sitting there for 20 years, and there's never been any issue.

Ma'am, your system can fail, and you don't see it. Your system can fail, and instead of coming up, it can go down into the aquifer, and that's our concern. So you don't know that it's failed. I think the important thing is we've got to get this show on the road and get moving with this.

We don't know the quality of your installation because it was never inspected when the trenches were there and it was put in. And somebody from the county never got to get their eyes on it to see if it was appropriate or not. And I like what Dr. Turner had to say, just as a board member. We've got to stop kicking things down the line. I'm always a proponent of keeping the bar high, mostly because We need to cut down on the incidences of pollution. And what Dr. Turner just said now was system failure is not something that you're always going to see on the surface. I would suggest that most you won't see. And they go on for long periods of time before they, and they do a lot of local pollution until they're fixed. We've got to learn more about it.

What would we like to see? John started amending the compliance order. What would we like to see by October, November, December? What sort of deadlines do we want to put on?

I think we want to see a report from the engineer. And I'm not saying that it's going to be completely through DEQ because, as you said, it probably isn't. But you've got to have a report from the engineer of what the plan is and his outline of what's going to happen. Now, the other question I have for you is there a financial problem involved here?

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, I've had right now with the well, it's been my family and friends who have helped raise the money for that.

So we may get to the point, if you cannot get this thing going, that we're going to have to ask you not to use that two-bedroom place. Because it is a, according to the regulations, it is an occupied dwelling without an approved wastewater disposal system.

We don't know what's there.

We don't want to do that. And then we have a trailer that's... not hooked to anything, but is hauling waste off. How long has the RV trailer, whatever, been there?

Just two months, and he's planning on building him something this next spring.

On that property or a different?

That property.

So he needs another septic system?

Which we'll go through that when it gets there, but right now everything is self-contained, completely self-contained, and you can come inspect it if you want.

Has he started building on this new property?

No. I mean, I know we have to get to the point where we have to get permits for all that.

No digging, no foundation?

No.

You do understand if you put a, before you put a foundation in, you have to have a septic permit.

Yes, we're aware of that now. But again, like I said, what he's doing right now, you're welcome to come inspect it because he knows all the rules and He says it's no different than dry camping out at KOA where there's no water.

So he doesn't know the rules then because that's not true. You can't live in an occupied building, dwelling, including an RV without a septic. You can camp there temporarily, but not long term. So it sounds like there's some confusion still when you say he knows the rules.

This is the mobile that's... Right next, this is Bowman Road. Yeah. Paved road there. So there's that one. And then is there another mobile home that got moved on here? In this area?

Is that the lower half? No, that one's been sitting there unoccupied for years. Okay.

This is the one that's being torn down, right?

Yeah. And then he just brought on another big storage unit. Okay. just one of those big containers, storage units.

So when all the septic work was done for any or all of these dwellings, it wasn't something you were part of. You were the lady in the family, and that was in your department. Is that right?

I just assumed they were doing what they were supposed to do. That was the guys' department. They were all plumbers.

Well, now that you're part of this, in fact, probably in charge, I guess, it would be of that property in some way. Would you be willing to do what Dr. Turner brought up earlier as far as by next month making sure we have something that's substantial?

I'll do everything I can.

Because we're coming up on winter.

I know we are.

This is not Miami. This is the bid room.

I know. And we've been living with just hauling our water for three months now. So we know what hardship is.

So by next month, what were you proposing to see, an engineer?

I want to see an engineer report, and I'd really like to see the engineer here, too. That would be a good idea.

I'll try. He'll be coming from out of town, though.

Or Zoom, like the other.

Oh, Zoom.

Yeah, I mean, I didn't physically have to be here.

Yeah, we could probably. I'm old school. I forget about that stuff.

So the closest engineer you can get to work with you is out of town? I mean, out of this area?

Yeah. He grew up here, but he's out of this area.

OK. So next month, you'll have an engineer here or a report or on Zoom.

This lady has some things to add.

I just have a question because I had just heard this gentleman say that it can take six months to a year. And now you guys are saying in one month.

That's to get through the DEQ process. Ma'am, if you're going to address us, we need your name.

My name is Shawna. She's a good friend. I'm just trying to get the facts so I can try to help me as well. And so that had me confused a little bit. And I don't want her pushed in any direction that she can't. feasibly do in a timely manner that you guys are expecting. I just want it to go smoothly and for her to not have to come back in and say I couldn't get somebody because they were booked out or whatever could be the time frames. I'm just saying that one month seems like it's a very short amount of time and I understand the constraint with winter.

Oh, yeah. And what is your name for the record? Shawna. Shawna?

Ross.

Ross?

Yes.

Okay.

So that's what we're expecting. We're not expecting a DEQ approval by next month. It's just you've talked to an engineer. They've designed, worked. I mean, even knowing what the system is your husband installed back in the day, whether it's a system that meets the regulations or not. So somebody's going to have to go in and look up and see what was actually installed, what's out there, what does that mean. And apparently you Your son's looking at building next year, so he's going to need approval, so you're going to need DEQ.

Right. I think that would be very – I think that that's probably not – I feel like May is obviously going to be taking these things into account first before any type of building of anything else is going to be going forward.

Yes. I've got to take care of all this first.

But you understand somebody living in an RV, even if it's not hooked to a system, is –

They've been doing it for several years, moving all over the place, and they love it. They love it.

It's a lifestyle. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah.

Well, there's rules in the wastewater regs that the county has. You can get a copy probably down at Environmental Health. Seriously, there's a whole paragraph on that kind of what you're allowed to do or whatnot. But by next month, it's not outrageous for us to ask for some sort of a positive step, regardless of what you see everywhere else in the county. It's not outrageous. It's nice to be part of the team so that we can get you where you need to go, but you need to be part of the fixing the problem.

Yeah, but I need to be updated in a timely manner, too. when things are decided without me here.

And I wasn't meaning that what your timeline was outrageous. What I was meaning was I didn't want her being put into something that isn't feasible for her.

I think this is feasible. Yeah, we're not asking for full-blown approval. But what we don't want to see happen is next month this comes up and it's like, oh, yeah, we got busy. We didn't call anybody in. So that's all we're asking is we start to remedy the issue that's out there.

I understand, and I think you understand.

There are more than one engineer. Maybe if this one's busy, try to contact another one.

There's a lot of them. And closer to home, too. And by the way, with the history of that property, it's time that this starts to get fixed. And everybody has to take part. And nobody gets to sidestep.

I feel that she was trying to get a different engineer so that it was more affordable because she's already having to do the well work. It's super expensive.

And that's fair.

He's a family friend. And so that was the deal with that.

Yeah.

Well, another thing to think about is you're going to put a well in. It would be kind of nice to know where the septic system is that we don't know about. Yeah. Because you don't want to put it next to that.

Yeah, we've already taken all that into consideration.

But do you know where that system is?

Which system?

The one for Kristen's house.

The one that we don't know about.

All right. Next month? Next month. Bring us a plan from an engineer. We know what presented to us. If you get it done sooner and you can send it beforehand, that'd be great. So next month, that's what you'll bring, correct?

It's well within 100 feet or more.

Well, there's going to be a septic tank or something, or a leach field that goes with it.

There is one other thing. If you have questions between now and a month, contact Environmental Health, and they will work with you. and maybe help you answer some questions. I think you have a list of consultants and engineers, don't you, John? Yes, please stop by our office. So he can help you with that.

I think it's fair to assume that you're probably going to be on the agenda for monthly updates as we progress through that. And, and there will be a discussion with possible decision on every agenda. So we're not going to notify you every month to say, Hey, you're back on the agenda until this gets resolved. Just assume that we're going to be discussing it and seeing what the status of it is. And that's, I think that's what we're asking is just work towards a solution on the property.

And ma'am, are you on the property or you're on the property? You're in the probate, not you.

All right. Lou's got a question. Thank you.

Ma'am, your husband is a plumber by trade. Did he have a business? Yes. Have you had the chance to go through all of his paperwork? Because he may have put a plan on this non-approved system. So it may be worthwhile to you, ahead of contacting a professional, to look through all of his paperwork, hopefully. Well, if he's a plumber and he kept records, they may be in there for you. And that may alleviate a lot of extra expense and problems. And it may be able to answer the question where you could put the next well or the well.

so is every is everybody good with what we've talked about now which is by next next month they're going to come back with an engineer's report but we'll allow the continued use of the two bedroom and the rv that's not um hooked any for one month we'll make another decision depending on how far you are sure if we get to the point where

you know, you're not making, you're not doing anything, then we're going to do something. I hate to say that. We can work with you, but you've got to work too.

That's right.

I have that.

Symbiotic relationship. Ma'am, were you related to Ted?

Which one?

Um, so we make sure that there's, I understand, make sure that there's nothing going on another trail, like make sure that it is being dumped in a proper fashion.

And then what was that? I'm sorry.

The RV down below, just make sure there's no issues with that. And I do have to stress one more time. Cause I feel like receipts, that would, that would help to just show that he is dumping and pumping and doing that, that if he's taking it to black rabbit, he's paying and there'll be receipts for that. So those would help show that that's being taken care of properly and not being dumped somewhere or put somewhere.

He's a neat freak. I know that he does it all right.

He's what?

He's a neat freak.

Oh. So could you bring those? That would help as well, showing that that RV is being dumped at wherever.

You can get a copy of the wastewater regs, and you'll understand it. He can read it right in there. If he's the owner of the RV, exactly what the law requires him to do here in Ravalli County.

Yeah, talk to John, and John can get you any of it. If you ever have questions through this process, call John's office and talk to him, and he can help you out. All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, item number four, old business, discussion with possible decision on depth to groundwater variance for parcel 894-600, Bergersen. Is Bergersen here?

Anybody? Brian.

Anybody from 894-600, Bergersen?

I left him a message on the 2nd regarding.

Which property was this?

On Meridian Road.

A groundwater monitor this year. And this property with all the X's.

We don't see anything but X's, correct?

Yep. Those are all failed pipes.

Is that this year or over multiple years? This is this year. That was all this year?

I think that was three, six, nine, ten pipes.

What was the closest pipe? And the variance, he's looking.

Was he here before?

So was he on the agenda for last month? He was, and he did not show up. He didn't show up this month either. And he's just asking for a variance from depth to groundwater for one. What was the closest pipe?

Let's see, 32. 45. That might be it right there, 45. That's probably it.

I think that 45.

So 45 was the closest. And that's actually where about the replacement system for the existing house was put in.

So they're trying to get a septic, or a second septic.

Second dwelling, yeah. Second dwelling. Either that or a family transfer, I'm not really sure. I could never vote for that. Okay.

Now, just looking at that property, is there any higher areas that, okay.

There's a lot of irrigation around them, too. This is Meridian.

So it's on the west side of Meridian?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Okay, so that means it all comes down. In between Meridian and 93.

It's all coming down their direction. You can even look across the street.

Okay. Make a decision today?

If you want, just take it off the agenda until they request again. It's up to you.

What's the possibilities? I can't see it as a possibility. What kind of a system would you allow and put in if we said sure?

Well, we haven't...

We've never made a variance for that.

No. I mean, if it was very close, then we could ask for a surveyor and do all that.

Which we would do before they go through this.

He hasn't been here for twice in a row. And it's skeptical at best. I would move that we reject this. Deny. Deny it.

I would second that motion. I don't know if you can do that just with no attendance or if you have to go through the category. Or just take it off until it actually requests it.

Discussion with possible decision. We should go through the variance criteria if we're going to make a decision.

I think we should go through the variance criteria.

I mean, you can't schedule a variance and just keep, like, not showing up and not showing up either.

And the other thing about it is then it's on for another time.

Too much kicking down the road. Have you talked to Mr. Bergersen to find out?

Just when he applied for it.

But you haven't had any other conversation?

Two months ago.

And he knows that there was a meeting today?

I called him on the second and left him a voicemail to remind him that he's got to show up.

So I guess the question is, do we want to go through the variance criteria today? We'll have to make some assumptions, I guess, and that is basically a three-inch variance from depth to groundwater. So is that what we want to do? I think to deny it because he can't appeal it, we need to go through the variance criteria today. Okay.

I'd like to go through whatever it takes to appropriately deny this today.

Okay. All right, so we're going to open this variance hearing and we're going to go through the variance criteria. So the first is granting the variance will not contaminate any actual potential drinking water supply. Failure. Not satisfied?

Not satisfied. What did you just say, sir? Satisfied.

No, I agree. Okay. cause a public health hazard as a result of insects, rodents, or other possible carriers of disease to humans? Satisfied. Satisfied?

Yeah, because we don't have any evidence that that's going to cause it. Okay.

Who will not cause a public health hazard?

Because we don't. What I'm saying is insects, rodents, and so on shouldn't be a problem. So it's satisfied.

I don't know. I don't know what kind of system they're proposing. So it is satisfied, same.

OK. Cause a public health hazard by being accessible to persons or animals.

That's satisfied.

Satisfied. Yeah, that's satisfied. violate any law or regulation governing a water pollution or wastewater treatment and disposal, including 1736.922, except for the rule that the variance is requested from. Non-satisfying. It's cloudy. I don't know.

Non-DAG hasn't been done.

Yeah. It's hard to tell without. I would say that it's not satisfying.

What's the closest non-DAG around there? Anything? anything been on the property at all pollute or contaminate state waters in violation 75 5605 degrade state waters unless authorized

Cause a nuisance due to odor, unsightly appearance, or other aesthetic considerations. Satisfied. Satisfied. Compliance with the requirements from which variances requested will result in an undue hardship.

We have no evidence that it would cause an undue hardship.

So not satisfied? Not satisfied, yeah. The variance is necessary to address extraordinary conditions that the applicant could not have reasonably prevented. It could have showed up to start.

Yeah.

I would say it's not satisfied. Yeah. I would say not satisfied, too.

I'm not sure when he bought the property. I think it was this year.

No alternatives that comply with the requirement are reasonably feasible.

I don't know. That's not satisfied. No. Because he didn't show up. He didn't show up. So we have no evidence there are alternatives. Not satisfied.

Yeah. Variant's request is not more than the minimum needed to address the extraordinary conditions.

Well, this isn't extraordinary. This is just a piece of land that has high water. So I would say it's not satisfied. Me too, not satisfied.

Okay.

Okay. It will notify Mr. Berger.

So the motion to deny. We made a motion, sir? Yes.

And I would second it. So it's been moved and seconded to deny the variance request for depth to groundwater for parcel number 894600. Is there any public comment on that motion? Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify with aye. Aye. Opposed? None. Motion carries. All right. Old business number five, discussion with possible decision on groundwater results, appeal for parcel 401-260. Dreo Drive. Is anybody here for that? Where is this, John? 401-260.

Off of Cootney Creek Road.

Okay. This was on the last agenda.

Oh, I see it. The owner was not here, and the representative is not illegal.

They said there was a flooding event that occurred, and that's why the pipes passed.

They're appealing the results that it failed because of the flooding event on a failed ditch or just kind of a block ditch or a failed ditch that overflowed.

And the people don't show up? There was an excavator installer that was here last time, but the property owner didn't, and we told him that he'd have to have an affidavit or consent from the owner. So neither one of them show up today? Correct.

Is this a ditto to number four that we just did?

Probably.

It's not a variance.

So continue or take off?

Pardon me, ma'am? Oh, we need to make a decision on it.

I would not grant the appeal.

I make a motion that we do not grant the appeal. Second. It's been moved and seconded to deny the groundwater appeal for parcel 401-260. Is there any public comment on that motion? Any discussion? All those in favor signify with aye.

Aye.

Opposed? None. Motion carries. New business discussion with possible decision on setback to floodplain variance request for parcel 1425300. Lynn? Aye. All right, here, here. Step number one, done.

A diligent citizen. I think we showed up on a bad day, though.

Well, what we're going to do here is okay with you. You're going to give us your names, and then John's going to present it, and then you all get a chance to talk. How's that sound? Sounds good.

I'm Chris Lynn, the landowner.

I'm Tanner Wilson, the consultant, Granite Creek Engineering.

All right, so there's a four bedroom living unit built in 1970 that existed on the property or exists on the property per cadastral. On April 27, 2021, replacement site evaluation was done on the property requiring an elevated sand mound due to high groundwater concerns. October 18, 2021, replacement sand mound permit for the four bedroom living unit was issued for the property and finalized on December 16, 2021. May 31, 2022, so the following year, planning department sent Mr. Lin a response letter regarding his floodplain permit to construct a shop building. On April 25, 2024, a couple of years later, groundwater monitoring in the property was applied for. On May 1, 2024, we began groundwater monitoring on the property, but there was no pipe installed yet. So how do you do that, John? Hold on. Let me get to it. Do groundwater monitoring without a pipe. Let me get to it. So we marked a no measurement that week. That's the week that we start. And then six days later, we did a site evaluation on the property.

There.

Uh, requiring groundwater monitoring and water was observed at 82 inches. The groundwater monitoring pipe was then installed number 232. And the, uh, that pipe was monitored that year and passed for an elevated sand mound with depth of groundwater at 53.8 inches. Uh, September 5th, 2024 planning department semester, another response letter regarding his floodplain permit to construct a residence and a shop building. Construction began on the living unit on the parcel to the south without a wastewater permit and the administrative fee for that was assessed. On March 31st, 2025, alteration permit was applied for to connect the living unit on the south parcel to the existing elevated sand mount that was a replacement system. on the subject property. And then on that same day, a holding tank permit was applied for to disconnect the existing 1970 house from the replacement sand mound and the house on the south parcel connecting to the elevated sand mound. Everybody follow me on that so far? No, Lou is shaking his head.

So the original house was disconnected, and the new house was connected. Is that correct?

That's the plan.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Let's see. Where are we at here? April 18th, alteration permit design was submitted by Mr. Tanner Wilson. On April 29th, the alteration permit was issued to connect the new four-bedroom living unit from the south parcel to the existing elevated sand mound. and the permit noting that the system may not be finalized until the older dwelling is disconnected from the system and piping is removed. April 8, 2026, this is a year later. That's not a typo. Board of Health denied the holding tank permit application on June 10, 2026. Board of Health agenda for the appeal of holding tank denial continued to the July meeting. At the July meeting, it was continued to the August meeting. On the August meeting, the Board of Health voted 3-0 to deny the appeal of the holding tank denial. And then on August 19, Mr. Lin applied for a variance from floodplain setback.

No, what's the new ESM? What is that for? The old ESM was for the old house, correct?

Correct. So here's the layout.

No, there's only one ESM. That's installed. But you have a request for a new ESM, correct? Correct. And that would be for the old house? For the old house, yeah.

So here's the proposal. So we got the existing sand mound right here that was installed. So this is the 1970 house that previously connected to that. That connection from that tank to that sand mound was severed. You can see there's like a straight line that way. And the new constructed house is connected to the sand mound. The proposal is to allow for new sand mound where the groundwater monitoring pipe is located to be installed for this house to connect to. So that's the 53.5? Correct. 53.8. Yep. And according to this map, did Rob verify? Yes. Like sign off on the...

Rob said he's not... We're outside of the floodplain, so he doesn't care. So what we're... What we're not getting is that 100-foot setback to the floodplain from the ESM. And as you can see, we barely don't make it. Right.

I know he doesn't care because he doesn't have to write a permit for this part. But as far as the boundary, has he verified or said, oh, yeah, that is the boundary?

He would have no way to – We had a professional land surveyor create that boundary, so he would have no way to check it. It's a stamped PLS. Or I guess not check, but okay it, like accept this as a… I guess not officially, but yes, he would. Okay. He couldn't deny it, I guess, because it's a professional land surveyor that put that together.

When you say Rob, you're talking about Rob Lachey's planning department, right?

Yes, yep. So with that survey.

So is that area outlined for the 100-year floodplain? Is everything inside of that out of the floodplain? Correct. Okay. So you went through and did the survey, and that's outside of the floodplain?

Yes. And so here is the 100-foot setback. Yeah, that weird little shape around the ESM, that's the 100-foot.

So a corner of the system is outside of it. Pretty much.

Well, how many bedrooms is this size? So that is a four-bedroom system shown there. If you did a one-bedroom, it would fit. I don't know if it would. I mean, it's – I don't think so because you're only – it's still going to be the same height. I mean, most of that area is your slope down to the ground. You're only taking off those little three-foot chunks when you take out a lateral.

How long have you owned the property, sir? Six years? Say that again? Six years, I believe. I mean, that was quite an itinerary of things that happened over that. It's been a busy six years. We're running out of paper on that. I was wondering how much of it, where you started in that six years back.

Yeah. So you built your new house and then connected the house to this system. You just didn't know you had to have another system?

I knew some... Before I did any of that, working with Rob from the floodplain and stuff like that, that's where the whole concept of the holding tank that I've been working or coming here to talk to you guys about came from was if I built a different thing, can I get a holding tank for the old house? Everybody I spoke to said, yes, that's a complete possibility. Nothing I was doing was outside the bounds to do that. So that's where I moved forward with that concept. I have to ask you, who did you speak to that told you that? Rob, I believe, was one of the mission leaders.

But you didn't speak to John or Environmental Health about that.

With the holding tank option? Yeah. You know, I may have led them down the wrong path back then, because in the regulations, it's allowed. And this was all kind of a surprise that you guys don't allow holding tanks. I had no idea. And so that could have been partially my fault. It would be good if that was.

The reason we don't allow holding tanks then everybody can get a holding tank. And you don't have to have a means of wastewater disposal except throw it in the tank and then get Sweet Pea to come by. Sure.

We don't need a holding tank. That's not how the regulations read to me. It's been a while since I've looked at them.

You called yourself a consultant when you first started. Are you a certified installer? No, I'm a professional engineer. You're an engineer? Yes. Okay, very cool.

So there's a question about holding tanks that we allow those, and I don't know where that is.

Is that not in the regulations, the holding tank rules in Ravalli County? Does it say that they're not allowed? Because I show up there.

No, it's not explicitly said in there that they're not allowed.

Okay. I thought there were some regulations in there that addressed them, though.

We allow them at the airport for guys that have a hanger type stuff. But we have very few holding tanks, and we're trying to eliminate those.

So where we're ultimately going to have to get to approve this is we're going to have to go through that variance criteria that you saw earlier, and we're going to have to make findings on the variance criteria So basically to grant the variance, we'll have to have that those conditions are, those criteria are satisfied by a majority of the board on all those. If any one of the criteria has a majority of the board say that that's not satisfied, then variance gets denied. So we can. Could I, before we start, could I see that picture of that?

Yeah, that you had right there, okay. So a corner of the proposed new Right there, there's no way that that's within the rules right now.

Well, three corners, yeah, are just barely missing the 100 foot setback.

So just starting with that one detail before we went through criteria, would we be setting a precedent about anything else that anybody else that comes up with a similar or same situation in the future. I don't, I don't think that's, that's a, I mean, that's a distinctly out of, yeah, no, no, no, there's, there's no question.

It's out about it is, it is outside of the floodplain criteria, but I think every variance you look at on the merits of the request and see if you, I mean, we just have to answer those questions, whether they're satisfied or not. Um, I don't think this one, I think a depth to groundwater is sometimes precedence, could be a precedent setting one, but I think you even have to look at that, like in the case of somebody coming in with maybe video evidence that, look, here's my, because that's one thing that the request for depth to groundwater didn't have. They told us it was because our neighbor's ditch broke, but it's like, do you have video of that? Do you have proof? Proof. that it wasn't just high groundwater, that it was actually an ice jam or your neighbor didn't do anything or whatever.

Which one is that?

The one before.

Which one? The one where Rod Lewis showed up last night.

The one that didn't show up?

Yeah. They didn't show us like a video of the ditch. The 45-inch one. Yeah.

I think it's on by one that got approved.

No, I was talking about the one we just denied. That could have been information they could have brought that then we could use that wouldn't be precedent setting. Like, look, this was a one-off event.

I don't think you set precedent. I think you just opened the door.

You do.

With the death of the groundwater, I think the Board of Health has set a pretty... Yeah.

That door's not open.