Arts Commission - Regular Meeting

Is it 401?

401. We will call the August 31st, 2026 Arts and Culture Commission meeting to order. And our first item of business is Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance by... United States of America, to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Will the clerk please call roll call?

Commissioner Erickson? If you can turn your microphone on, sir. One more time. It should stay red.

Oh, it should stay here.

Commissioner Hopkins?

Present.

Commissioner Rooney? Here. Vice Chair Busse? Present. Chair Pugh?

Present.

We have a quorum.

Thank you. So first item is we will approve the agenda. And I'll just go ahead in motion. The second to motion.

I second.

Second.

Before you go through with approving the agenda, if.

Oh, I need to change that.

There was a system error. Yeah. There is a duplicate item. the commission can decide to amend and remove that duplicate item now.

All right. I'll take care of that. So we do have a duplicate approval of minutes for the July 27th, 2026. So I would like to make a motion to reduce or strike one of those. We just have motion. We have just the 3A and not 3B. And so I'd like a second to that. Second. Perfect. Let's vote. Everyone in favor? I'll start. Yay. Aye. Yay.

Yay. Yay.

So approve, we will strike the 3B approval of minutes. And next we'll do an approval of the agenda now that we've made that correction, correct? All right, perfect. I'll go ahead and motion that too. So let's approve the agenda. Second, please. Second. Voting, I'll start the voting. Yay. Aye. Yay.

Yay.

Perfect. So approved. The third item is the approval of minutes for July 27th, 2026. And it wasn't a test. No, I want someone else to do the motions, please.

Move approval.

Thank you. Second, please.

Second.

All right. And we'll vote. I'll start the voting. Yay. Aye. Yay. Okay, so approved. So the approval of minutes, done. So next, we have public comments. And we have a person in the audience, Ms. Lori Larson from Pellet Main Street Association, and she's going to give a brief, a little, not super long, but just a discussion about their mural project so that maybe in the future, the commission and PMSA may get together and do some mural work.

And just for the commission's awareness, public comments are three minutes in total. I will give you a 30-second warning.

That's perfect. That's okay. Yeah.

You'll just need to turn on your microphone, ma'am. There should be a little button on the – yes.

Man, I have green light.

Okay.

Hi, I'm Lori Larson. I am a board member of the Puyallup Main Street Association, and I am chair of the design committee. I'm here today to talk about the mural program. We've been financing murals painted downtown on buildings. And we have enough now that the committee has taken an inventory, gone out, taken photographs, identified the artist if we could, the condition of the painting, what year it was done, its title. And we'd like to create a brochure, like the Arts Downtown is created for all the sculptural work downtown. similar to that. The one thing that we're lacking and we're hoping there's potential partnership is someone to actually design the brochure. We don't have any of the software or tools or somebody with the skills to put it together in a format that can actually be posted on the website and then downloaded as people find interest. And this is something that the city can post, Puyallup Main Street can post, so that we have another draw to downtown besides the sculptures. And there's enough now that people are starting to ask questions. The other thing was I wanted to find out if the commission has any policies about restoring existing artwork on buildings, because there are some murals that have been on these buildings for a period of time and they're starting to peel off, they're starting to fade, they're degrading. And we want to check with the city to find out if there are any restrictions or protocols that we need to follow to do any restoration of that work. I can answer any questions if you have any. Otherwise, I'm done.

Unfortunately, when it comes to public comment, the commission is not able to respond back and forth. You're able to make your comment and as such.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you so much. Okay. Next is new business. And we have two new commission members. Eric, are you going to introduce them or you want me to do that?

Either or. I just wanted to bring that to your attention. We have two new commission members, commission member John Hopkins and commission member Alden Erickson. So I just want to welcome them to the commission. Thank you so much for your service and looking forward to working with you.

We appreciate the two of you being here. You have no idea. Because up until now, it's been pretty much Paige, myself, and Commissioner Bussey here trying to hold the fort down. So to have two additional members is pretty awesome. And Mr. Hopkins is also part of AMSA and Arts Downtown. So we have some greater liaisons, which I think will really help us out in the long run. So if you guys want to say a little bit at all, just... say who you are and what your background is and why it brought you here.

Thank you. Alden Erickson. I've been a resident of Puyallup for over 20 years. I've enjoyed the sculptures and the arts in Puyallup kind of from afar, and I'd like to get involved and give back.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Mr. Hopkins? Yeah, I wanted to get on the commission because I saw the need for that collaboration that Brad mentioned. There's been a bit of a disconnect. That's kind of obvious. And being on the design committee with Laurie for Puyallup Main Street, I think should help a little bit and being on arts downtown on their board, hopefully we, uh, avoid duplication and can, uh, play to all of our strengths.

Perfect.

So.

Okay. Welcome. All right. Next is a word plan update from Mr. Johnson.

okay yeah thank you so much you're welcome commission pew commission chair pew uh so one of the things that um was brought up at our last meeting was hey where are we with the work plan you know we've done some items we've done some things where are we with this so to back up a little bit so the commission uh created uh a work plan uh back in 2024 and it was approved by this commission and also the city council uh and Basically, in a nutshell, the work plan is a working document that has basically a list of different items that the commission would like to see accomplished. And really, it starts out at a high level. There's some high-arching goals, and then there's also strategies that achieve those goals. And then below the strategies are a list of tactics, which are the items that I'll talk about with you a little bit more in detail on. So if you can see on your screen right here, so just a little bit of background, like I mentioned, we held some study sessions in 2023, which we had Arts Downtown participate in that. And then we had initial approval of the work plan by the commission in late 2023. And then in 2024, city council adopted the work plan. So at a high level, we had some goals here in the work plan. You can see these right before you. The first goal is to embrace Puyallup as a multicultural community composed of people from all parts of the world, from different backgrounds, ethnicities, and identities. Celebrating the people that make our community what it is today will help shape the Puyallup of tomorrow. Goal number two, expand beyond downtown and look for opportunities to include South Hill as an arts and culture area of interest. And number three, be a curator of different artistic mediums and tell the world about Puyallup as an arts destination. We have a couple more, strengthen our relationships with existing organizations and champion their efforts to promote arts and culture. And then reimagine the commission as a convener of ideas and a celebrator of all things arts and culture. So we've put together a list of tactics that support those goals. And I just want to go through some of the items that we accomplished because we accomplished quite a bit. So first of all, work with the school district on a community mural project. So if you remember, there is a mural on the backside of the school district building. That's something that the school district reached out to us about and collaborated on. So glad that they were able to get that accomplished. create a public art gallery in the library. As you can see that photo right there is the brand, brand new library display case that we finally got completed. We'll talk more about that in a moment. Regular updates from Arts Downtown at meetings, getting more collaboration. with Arts Downtown, specifically Nicole Martineau, whether it's regular email updates from her, but also us going to their meetings and vice versa. So really increasing that collaboration. We also approved a new mission and vision statement that was one of the first items that we accomplished from the I believe the previous vision and mission statement helped me out here was quite long and quite verbose. So we wanted to tighten that up a little bit more. Expand the signal cabinet program to the South Hill region of Puyallup. That's something that we continue to work on. A guest list for local area partners to provide updates. That's something that we started, but we want to obviously continue now that the commission is having regular meetings again. And then creation of a commission position on the Arts Downtown Board to strengthen communication. I'm looking over here at commission member Hopkins. As soon as I saw your name get approved, I added that bullet point.

Well done. Write it on your list and check it off.

And then, of course, as you all probably remember, a new meeting date and time frequency previously. Oh, help me out. I think Friday. Friday's at 10.

Yes.

I think was the totally unworkable. Yeah. And it was, yeah, just not workable. So we did a doodle poll and we found that this day and time worked the best for most everyone on the commission and obviously the new commission members. So that's always great. Here's just a few items that are in progress. Partner with the Northwest Sinfonietta to create music nature walks. I think the last we left this off, we were thinking about doing it at Bradley Lake Park. I can't, I'll have to go back through my notes.

We were close to having this on board. Yeah.

I'm trying to remember, I think it was something to do with, oh, the playlist. We had to get the playlist put together with Karen. So that's one thing that we need to finish up. Coordinate and install an art sculpture at Bradley Lake Park. I know that we talked quite a bit about that. I think at one point, I think Arts Downtown had an artist that they thought would be a good fit, but I need to follow up with them on that. And then partner with the library to create musical story times. That was another item that the commission expressed a desire in moving forward. So those items are in progress. And then here's something that I'm looking for direction from you all. Here's a list of some items that we haven't begun, but are in the work plan that I just want to get your feedback on as far as like direction for which ones we want to prioritize over the next year. Partner with the Liberty Theater to create free musical dress rehearsals in Pioneer Park. That was one item. Work with the city's branding consultant to create a marketing campaign that promotes arts and culture. I heard something earlier about potentially a brochure being made. There could be some sort of tie into that. Draft a community mural plan with PMSA, incentive program for downtown businesses to install murals on their property. Some sort of graffiti art event at the skate park as you all know, the new skate park is going to be getting installed in the next few months so there could be a good opportunity there to incorporate some artwork in some sort of way, whether it's graffiti art or some other medium. artwork on downtown street furnishings. You can see this image right here are some of our brand new, very expensive street furnishings. So some way that we can incorporate artwork with that. And then a public piano program in city parks and open spaces. I know Commissioner Boosie, you have championed that one specifically. So really, for the direction that I'm seeking from you all today is direction from you all on which work plan items that I just discussed in the last slide that you would like me and this team all together to focus on over the next year.

Well, I like your list there. I'm glad it's right down to the strategies and some specific goals. Some of the stuff Arts Downtown has been talking about You know, we've come to the conclusion that we're pretty much full as far as the downtown core, as far as sculptures. So we had started thinking more about parks. What can we do to expand into parks? And there are a few opportunities, one of which we've been talking about, you know, like on the Riverwalk.

Yeah.

Arts for the viewing area where the flag is and also where the Tacoma Trail ties in. We could be doing something there. And Bradley Lake is one of those parks where you think there's some opportunities there. So Arts Downtown would 100% support going into parks. we just have to be super careful how we do it. So we're not throwing nice little bronze work in the middle of the forests because they make great scrap metal. Yeah.

And obviously, you know, something to consider is that, you know, the parks get a lot more usage patrons than say, you know, a, you know, So in our downtown somewhere.

So, yeah, exactly. So with caution, I think it is absolutely something that we should be working on figuring out the best locations.

Well, you know, we could go the model of sculpture. That's also play equipment because we did sort of do that at the, you know, where the community center is out there. wherever it is out in the hinterlands out there that the bench. Yes. Yes. And maybe that's the tack that we look at in those parks. So it becomes an active piece and that's, it's totally doable. Which is now a permanent piece. Yes.

So yeah, that works totally.

And way back in my old life, we used to do design things like that, like tractors that were stripped down that became, climbing gyms and things like that yeah so i think that'd be a good a good thing that we could

And even play equipment can go in that direction. You take a look at Wenatchee's waterfront stuff and it's like, is that artwork or is that play equipment? Exactly. I'm confused. It's both. Oh, good.

Yeah. And so perhaps a discussion could be had with our, you know, our parks and recreation director and see like, okay, like, you know, which parks would this make sense to do some sort of like art piece that's also climbable? Okay.

Especially if they're looking at doing some upgrades to their existing equipment.

So it's perfect. Yeah. So for instance, the skate park would be a great, you know, since that's already underway. Yeah.

And that one has huge visibility. So it's, you know, vandalism is less likely in that location.

Yeah. And also being close to the river walk trail.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. That would be a good location. Okay.

Actually, Eric, I think that every one of these we want to work on. There's no question. And for sure, the last one, we've been talking about this for how long, Commissioner Puzzi? Three years, two years? Okay.

Yeah. I'd like to throw one other one out if people have an interest. Our gallery program for Arts Downtown is rather weak. So for people to have a place to display flat work, you know, artwork, paintings, that kind of thing. We have the senior center. Now we've got a nice little display case in the library. But what else is there? Somehow or another, that needs to get expanded. And I'm not sure the strategy for doing that.

I know that there was one item mentioned, and this was more of a long-term item, was leasing a space at the South Hill Mall or working on some sort of like empty space at the South Hill Mall that perhaps the city could get leased to for free or a dollar. That's like a public space where art would be displaced. Just activate some of those orphan areas that are all too prevalent there at the mall.

Well, and that ties into, you know, we get so many, we'll, we'll see what we get this year, but in the past, so many submissions for the signal wraps, that's a way to then bring those submissions that don't make the signal wraps out into the community. So if we have a space like that, they can actually show that static work for everyone to see. And, you know, that's a playbook from Tacoma. They, that's how they activated spaces. And we were involved in one of those, even in Seattle one time where we, put artwork in the old Balmarché building that had been discontinued. So it's a well-used playbook, but it works. And it activates those spaces that have just become sort of vacant. And so that would be perfect.

So perhaps I could reach out to David Montevideo over at South Hill Mall and begin a conversation with that. So, cause I know that that is in the work plan.

Yeah, it is long-term items. And I think it's just the reach out. And then again, I think that's a great way we can bring the signal wrap work further out there.

Yeah.

Cause there's so much work that doesn't get seen. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, especially in this last round, gosh, how many did we get? 300? Something like that.

At least. I think it was more than that.

Yeah, a lot of great submissions. Yeah. That was a good problem to have. We had lots of good artwork, and so it would be nice to have another form for them to be daylighted.

And then the next one that relates back to that is what are you thinking for artwork on the benches?

Mm-hmm.

Are you thinking about things that are attached to that that's a static piece?

Yeah, thinking more of like things that could be easily wrapped onto the existing infrastructure. So like the garbage cans, I've seen other communities where there's like wraps around the garbage receptacles. The city of Astoria, where I'm from originally, they're actual like, you know, they're designed to look like old cannery cans. Oh, yeah. You know, things like that, that kind of, you know, make them stand out.

Something you could actually go on the back, you could sit against it, that kind of stuff. It'd be like the panels that, was that PMSA? Sorry, but PMSA did some panels in the Diagon Alley.

Yes.

And so there would be stuff like that. That's just trying to get my head around what it might be.

Yeah. I know the last time I was at the city of Palm Springs, they had actual benches that were wrapped in artwork and then they had A really nice bronze plaque that had a QR code that it went to the city's website, and it was a biography on the artist that did the bench. So things like that.

Because that could be part of the mural law. Yeah. So those pieces, they become the static pieces, but they're part of that whole program.

Okay. Exactly.

And places to latch bicycles to, you know? Yeah. Like they have up in Seattle. Yeah, it'd be perfect. They're pretty cool too. Street furnishing type stuff that's artistic at the same time.

Yeah, unlike Spokane where they just drop them.

well and it's just it's also it's it's beautifying somewhat mundane things like you know we yes you go to every town everywhere there's benches there's garbage receptacles and then they kind of they kind of disappear in with the noise and so to beautify that just like with the signal cabinets well even again back to pmsa they put stickers on the ends of the dumpsters so all of that i know it's not part of the authorized

and is probably a discussion for future, but Dean Johnson had talked about a performing arts center paid for by LTAC. I know that's a bit optimistic and pie in the sky, but at some point, that might be a discussion.

Well, we had a student that came and gave a presentation about a performing arts center at a very, very high level conceptual. I don't think he even had cost estimates. I think it was just something that was aspirational.

It was part of his senior. It was either graduate or senior thesis.

Yeah, but it was his master's thesis for architecture at UW.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I don't know too much about his final product, but it sounded like it was pretty thorough. He had estimates of a lot of things. So if we want to take a look at it, we can definitely contact him. He's one of my friends, so I don't know if we want to contact him and see what ideas he had or anything like that.

Paige, what do you think? I got an invite to his presentation, but there was no way I could make it. Do you think he'd be willing to come back and visit us?

I can definitely ask. I know he'll still be around. I think he's actually going to be moving temporarily to Europe for a year for an internship for architecture.

Oh, cool.

But I think that's not until January or February. So I think he'll be around for the next few months.

Because he did come and present, which was cool. And so we knew about it. So if he'd be willing to come back, that would be awesome. Okay.

So I can reach out to, I believe it's Nolan, correct? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

You can have them come back.

Yeah. In the meantime, if anyone on the commission has a spare $100 million.

Performing art centers can be a notorious hole or money pit, you might say.

The City of Federal Way recently built one. I know Cody is our former parks manager over there. Talk with him and get some idea of

They can be disastrous, so you've got to watch out what you're doing.

Now that Mr. Hopkins brought it up, if we have it rattling around our agenda, that means it's rattling and we're thinking about it, and maybe we can start doing whatever we can to chip away at it.

Mm-hmm.

we can push some certain places to see if they're really serious about it.

Yeah. And it wouldn't hurt to survey the community. Not at all. There's a desire from the community to see something like that. Yes. As far as I've been here, I don't think the question's ever been posed.

Well, maybe it's time to pose it. Yeah. That would be something that could come through your department and arts commission with our blessing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Just put together a brief survey. What I'd like to do first is get Nolan back here, get some more information from him, and then maybe work with him and you all on a quick survey to put out.

It was interesting because he put it in the library parking lot.

He did what?

He put his building in the library parking lot.

Oh, yeah. That's what we needed. Less parking. Yeah.

I thought it was brilliant because that was in the bubble for sure. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think his plan actually had parking underneath it or something. It was like, that's cool. Oh, yeah.

You can always make parking. Totally. OK. Is that it? OK. Yeah. Are you guys good? That's my presentation. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Eric. Are you going to just go ahead and run right into the library display case?

Yeah, certainly.

Yeah, go for it.

Yeah.

So with your packet, there is a image. Well, and you actually also saw it in the presentation. That is the library display case that was recently installed, I think, a few weeks ago. The contractor that we have installed it, they did a great job. They came in, and I think they were done within like five or six hours. It was actually very interesting. I had my city manager come with me to go take a look at it. And when he walked in, he walked right past it because it because it looks so seamless. It's seamlessly blended in.

You can't even tell that that wasn't ever there.

And I believe that has happened with our library director too. When she was walking, she just passed by and didn't even, it just blended so well with the other display cases. So yeah, so the project has been completed. The next steps is we need to draft a contract. It's a memorandum of agreement basically between us And arts downtown for the management of the display case. So I'm working with our city attorney on that. And hopefully we'll be getting arts downtown and signatures on that. Once that's finalized, then we want to schedule a ribbon cutting ceremony with you all in city council to celebrate that. So, yeah, so I will be sending out a doodle poll to everyone to find dates and times that works best for folks and then get that scheduled and. Yeah.

Sweet. Yeah, that's great work. Yeah, that's awesome.

Great.

And then the last item was the signal wraps update.

Yeah, so just a brief update. So essentially I brought the call to artists document to you all at the last meeting and you gave me some comments and thoughts on that. I've integrated those thoughts and comments into the call to artists and we are getting ready to send that out. The one thing that I'm waiting on is the signal cabinet dimensions. So I'm getting those numbers from our public works crews because If you recall, the last time we did the call to artists, we got a lot of inquiries about the dimensions of the cabinets so that the artists could design it around the specific dimensions. And so being proactive, we want to include that in the call out. So that way we're just... okay, here are the dimensions. And then that way, that way folks have that information.

No, it's perfect. And actually this is the evolution because before we just put it out there and this stuff just got stretched over it.

Exactly.

And now people are actually thinking about, okay, how does this actually fit onto the wrap or onto the, the, the cabinet itself.

And this is perfect. Another point too, is that the cabinet is not just one cabinet, right? It's multiple pieces. And so there's, are still like, okay, well I'm going to, you know, design this part of the artwork for this part and then this part, this part. So it just looks more intentional.

So it'll be really, it's going to be really interesting to see what we get. Because I think it's going to be, it's going to change the game for a lot of people.

Yeah, exactly. And so we had intentionally put off sending the call out until the school year back up again, which I believe school is starting Wednesday. So hopefully we can get that out, get those submissions in. And by the time we meet again at our next meeting in, is it October? I can't remember when, when is our next meeting?

The next scheduled meeting is October 22nd. Sorry, 26. October 26th.

Because we're still every other month. Correct.

So by then, we should have a completed call to artists process, and we should have some submissions for you all to make decisions on.

That should be perfect. Because we could... They would be ready for a spring install. Yeah, that'd be great.

Exactly. So yeah, that concludes my update.

Yay. Thank you very much.

And Eric also sent me a flyer for the... the Signal Cabinet wraps that I'll give out. So at the fair, I help oversee the art departments and stuff. So I can definitely, when they come pick up their artwork at the end of the fair, at the end of September, they can pick up a flyer or scan the QR code.

Perfect. That's a great idea. Thanks, Paige. That's awesome.

Yep. And it's just a, it's a teaser flyer. Yeah. Coming soon, you know, more info on the city's website. So that way it gets, cause I, I knew I, I looked at the email that you sent Paige. I was like, okay, I got to get you that flyer right away. It's coming up. I was able to bang that one out pretty well. Yes. Thank you. Yep. That's great.

A little crazy.

Thank you.

Commissioner, I just have one last item regarding the Nature's Throne artwork. As you all know, it was damaged recently. One of the wings was cut off. We had the artist come this past Thursday and repair that. So the bee is back in business.

Thank you. That's a good one because Arts Downtown has been discussing that. You know, we do the maintenance on just about every one of them. And it's nice to know that you were doing that one.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think my city manager got an email with the photo and I was calling Tomas that day. So when can we get you down here?

Yeah, they were around on top. I do have a quick question on the signal wraps. I know that this process is down the road a fair bit, but looking at the future, I've had a discussion with The Conservation District, you know, specifically with Dana, they have a cabinet right on that very busy corner of Stuart and Fifth. And of course, the Conservation District would be perfect for something like a orca whales shooting out of the signal box or something like salmon or yeah that that that sort of a thing so they're very much interested in that and they even have people who can do preliminary designs on that kind of a thing so it would be nice to know the process if people can jump in and and request to see if they can be put on the list to see if it qualifies for, you know, the different things like the district, you know, and, you know, and... The busyness and all that kind of a thing.

I know that, you know, we've done some one offs before, like with the electrical box over by the the spray park. Yeah, the PSE box as a one off. So, yeah. So what I can do is reach out to Dana and Brian is kind of my person that I talk to and schedule a meeting with.

Oh, Brian, the consultant, Brian?

Brian Molman, I think that's his name. Oh, it's a different one. Okay. Yeah, but Dana, yeah, I'm familiar with. So reach out to them and have a meeting going with them.

I mean, it'd be a perfect fit there, but I'm not objective in the least.

Well, you know, we do have to be careful because we've sort of billed this as a public program. But we do have themes. And so the theme there for that signal wrap would be something that would be related to the conservation district. And I personally, I think that we should keep it the public program and not have a consultant involved in it. But make sure that those people that they may have in mind are part of that call. So they're in the pool as everyone else is.

Yeah. And the easy solution to that is we can just add that signal cabinet to next year's list. Yes. And then I can send information out to Dana, say, hey, we've got this on the list. We'd love for you guys to submit. That way the process is perfect. System is intact. Yeah.

Yeah. They'd love to participate in that.

That'd be great.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because we do, we do select based on the themes that we're given and where they're at. So that's why everything around the fairgrounds, it has a sort of fair related program.

Yeah, I see that. I look at the signal wrap and I go, that's pretty cool.

And that's the, you know, the great thing about this commission is that we have gotten more intentional with the geographic placement. Like, okay, like a signal cabinet here needs to make sense for the geographic.

Right. You know, if it's by Mika Mansion. Oh, absolutely. True.

Yes. Or if it's downtown, it needs to be something downtown related. Same thing with the fair up on the hill.

Or like down at Shaw Road, we did the containers of berries because it used to be berry fields. There's a few still there, but yeah. People get that. Yeah, they do.

Yeah. Yeah. So that way, again, the word intentionality.

Yeah. Perfect.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

All right. Oh, could you send that information on the slide, you know, with the goals and stuff, email it out maybe?

Yeah. So I will send, yeah, I'll send that and also send the full work plan document.

Perfect. That's what I was looking for.

That way you can see the full list of everything. Okay.

Okay. Perfect.

Great. All right.

That helps. Anyone have anything else?

Yes, I would just like to acknowledge our community member who's come to observe second once in a row. You're coming a bit of a frequent flyer. So if you'd like to apply for the commission, you should join us.

Yeah.

But thank you for supporting.

Thank you. Paige, anything you probably ramping up for the fair, right?

Yep. It's crazy. I'll be here late every day this week.

So thank you. Okay. With that, I think we can adjourn. It's a, 433? 436.

436, sorry.

And thank you, everybody. Thanks. Thank you. You're welcome.

Thank you. See you, Paige.