Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

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Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Special town council meeting. Cler, please call them.

I will take roll call for planning and zoning commission. Um c Commissioner Graci here. Commissioner Colossimo here. Uh Commissioner Evans here. Commissioner King here. Commissioner Griffith here. Uh Vice Chair Huat. No. And uh Chair Herb, think we we have a quorum. So now roll call for town council. Uh council member Lopez, I'm here. Phone.

Thank you. For the record, she's joining us virtually. Um Council Member Keel, present. Council member, present. Council member Greer, here. Council member Schumacher present. Vice Mayor Serger here. Mayor Pagura here. We have a quorum. Thank you, ma'am. We'll kick off uh the only item on the agenda who will be leading us. John, welcome sir.

Thank you, mayor, vice mayor, council members, uh planning and zoning commissioners. Really want to thank you for making time. We recognize this is off your regular schedule and to have a turnout like this is we we're very thankful. Uh also like to thank community members that have been involved and made time to attend makes a big difference and we have an upcoming kind of community outreach like we did on the first phase. So we're looking forward to that as well. Um I would like to note um that the chair planning zoning chair Herb did contact us as well as vice chair um Hua. They're both out of town for different reasons, but they're both unable, but they've been engaged and they look forward to continue to be engaged. So just wanted to note that. Um, I'm John Jacobson, uh, principal planner and development services, uh, helping lead the team on this wildlife corridor effort. Um, and you might remember, you know, we're this is kind this is the second phase. So, there's an awful lot that goes into this and we're we're continuing on and we're just we couldn't be more excited. I know it's been a little while since we've been in front of you, but really see the value in in sharing uh and letting the consultants share where we are and where we're headed. Uh and part of that is recapping a little bit. if I could just quickly touch on a couple of things uh the purpose of this session um provide a little bit of context of where we've been and then reintroduce you know our highly qualified uh Logan Simpson consultant team uh which has been very successful not only in this endeavor but past wildlife corridor efforts uh which you might have seen case studies uh when we went through the first phase uh so I'd like to do that um hopefully you had a chance to look at the staff report. Like I said, I just like to touch and I'll read it right out of the staff

report. Uh the purpose of the meeting uh tonight, this study session, uh the purpose of planning zoning uh town council study session is to solicit input from commissioners and town council members for consideration and generation of the town of Prescuit Valley Wildlife Corridor Plan. So, pretty straightforward. Um, but in addition to that, not only did you receive attached to the uh the staff report, uh, but also emailed to you separately in hopes that you would have time to look at it is that handout. And again, just to reinforce the purpose and, uh, hopefully, you know, plant the seeds, give you something to think about before you arrive tonight, just in an effort to have a little more engagement, um, and educate you a little bit. Like I said, it's been a little bit of time uh since we were in front of you folks. Uh back in June, I think was the last time we spoke as a group. Uh so wanted to touch on that. Uh the context I mentioned phase one. Uh you might remember that was termed the foundation plan. um it's on our website and really just as by definition it's really to do the inventory and analysis of the existing conditions and then begin to touch on some possible recommendations. Uh but that's really what phase two is to dig back in, take it forward and ultimately end up with what we will call uh the wildlife corridor plan. Um and you'll hear tonight some of the different pathways that we can go uh within the the phase two. Uh so what I'd like to do again the foundation plan uh if we put this in context at the very end of the document ahead of the uh appendix we have the three approaches which now are termed pathways. So if we

look back at phase one foundation plan, the first pathway we're calling it now align land use development standards with environmental sensitivity. And you'll see that in your handout again. That's our stepping off point for phase two. Uh pathway two, conserve high value habitat areas. Pathway three, develop a wildlife corridor and habitat overlay map. Um, so as not to confuse, all three of those pathways are contained within phase two. Um, so what you'll hear tonight is much more detail on what those are and then we're going to be looking for some input on prioritizing those. Yes, there are three. They'll all be contained. Uh, but we as we move forward in implementation, you know, which of those do we feel is a priority of those three? Uh, so that's where we're headed. um like to reintroduce like I said Logan Simpson who you may have met uh during phase one um highly qualified uh as a little side note I used to compete with them when I was on the consultant side uh we've now kind of mended bridg made bridges and no that's not the case I mean in our industry we've worked collaborative I still know people that work over there even before we engaged in this But but I appreciate that. Um so it's they're comprised their consulting firm is comprised of environmental specialist, archaeologist, community planning and landscape architects. Uh sitting uh next to me here, Bruce Mian, who is a nationally certified through the American Institute of Certified Planners. Uh he's also the CEO of Logan Simpson. And I mentioned that um Bruce has been engaged in phase one and you know he really has a passion for wildlife and wildlife conservation and

if you get a minute to talk to him make sure you carve out a couple hours once he gets going you know not that I know anything about that but you know uh but really has been instrumental. He's not a CEO that sat in the background and just you know play chess. He's engaged. Um Christina Kercher Webb sitting right here. Uh again, she's naturally nationally certified planner through the American Institute of Certified Planners and she's a project manager for phase two. Uh Mary Gresinger uh has a master's um science in environmental planning and again she was instrumental in phase one and also phase two. Uh, with that, I'd like to hand it over uh to Christina. And you need to make a loud noise. Okay. Might have to make this closer. Okay. Can you hear me? Is that going through the microphone?

A little closer. Maybe. Put her right up here. There we go. Okay. Thanks everyone for joining us. Um, mayor, vice mayor, council members, and commissioners. Thank you for joining us today. Um, again, my name is Christina and I'm with Logan Simpson and I've been um, you may remember Sandy. Uh, she kind of took a step back. She still works for us, but she has been um, working towards retirement. she doesn't want to quite retire yet, but um so I've been leading phase two and I have a background in wildlife corridor planning, open space corridor planning um throughout the mountain west um and most recently down in in the Buckeye area as well. Um Mary, do you want to give any Absolutely.

Hello everyone. I'm Mary Gisinger. You might remember me from phase one as the biological and conservation expert um as part of this team. I have been with Logan Simpson for three years now um with base background in land use and management from local government up to federal government.

And first we'll chime in with some thoughts and stories and you're here to answer any questions. Um so today yeah we're going to um do some a brief presentation and then take about maybe 10 minutes or so to do some background overview what we're hearing. so far, but most of um the meeting today will be interactive and we want to hear from you. Um if you do have your cell phone, make sure it's on silent, but um you can get it out. We're going to do a text polling uh type exercise where you can give feedback. So, we're happy to have your your verbal feedback, but also want to, you know, document and gather some other feedback or if you don't feel like um you know, speaking out loud or if you have more ideas as other people are talking, we can put that into the responses as well. So, that's going to be the activity discussion piece. Um, after we go over some brief brief overview of of of phase one and when where where we've been with phase two, I'll let J Mary

All right.

So, as you guys can see, this is a phase this is a two-phase project. And so phase one was really crucial for identifying the existing conditions where the town was at and what opportunities exist in the current environment as well as consider every sort of example that we could bring forward to find strategies and themes that will fit with the habitat that is Prescuit Valley. And so phase two is really building off of that foundation. And so kind of stacking that on top of everything that we identified and found within phase one to look ahead and innovate and aim towards implement implementing this plan for actions that this town can take and can put in place to then secure a wildlife connectivity in and around. So next, so with looking at phase one, we really engaged a wide variety of groups and identified key technical advisors that were really crucial with one-on-one listening sess se sessions, three focus groups, and one major community meeting um where we really just got to talk with people. listen to what the citizens concerns are. listen to what the technical group's concerns are and really get to understand where everyone kind of pictures a wildlife corridor and where everyone kind of envisions the town in the future and really carry forward these kind of ideas into identifying the crucial strategies that need to be taken um to kind of combine the town back into the ecosystem.

looking at the three base habitats that really bring Prescat Valley together to what you see today. And so the main focus was on riparian waterways, grasslands, mountains, and the forest. And so these three habitats are crucial for the ecosystem around. And connectivity goes in between all of these habitats. You can't just look at them in one isolated form. However, they each present their own kind of strategy that can be taken to help support them. And so with these strategies that we found, we were able to kind of bring together ideas of a pathway forward. And so those lead to our three pathways that we're including within phase two and identifying the key tools as part of those strategies. So when we look at the phase 2 schedule, we've already been some key evaluation, key engagement again with our technical advisory committees that include the state land board. It includes large land owners in and around Prescat Valley. It includes planning organizations such as simp-y plan and really getting to have these engaging conversations of what works and what can work with the town. And so we've made it to where we are now in January where we've just held some small focus groups as well talking to citizens um mainly the wildlife groups as well as developers and considerations for regional planning. um including the Yavapai Prescuit tribe as well as Y Plan again. And so these these groups have really allowed us to

be able to gain crucial feedback for establishing the directionality that we'll be going with these pathways for implementation. So our technical agency advisor feedback we had very wide variety of representation from US forest service Arizona state land board Arizona game and fish department simpo yavapai plan yavapai county p parks and public works departments as well as Arizona central Arizona land trust and overall the feedback that we've really heard is they really want clear timelines a nice clear schedule for how they're going to we're going to implement this plan. No restrictive actions and really focus on guiding the right kind of plans and keeping partners involved. Partners has been the major topic that's a really key linkage between every single action that's going to occur. If we go to the next. So, some of these agency top action topics, uh, when we were pulling them on options, uh, what tools were they most drawn to? Which tools do they want more feedback on or would like to see more flushed out ideas? And so within these five really really intriguing conversations, we kind of found a focus around different programs that focus on development regulations, cluster development, revised plan development. So that we kind of had this channeled focus towards land use. However, there are within our additional pathways other considerations such as conservation easement program as well as considerations towards acquisition and partnerships.

Our focus groups that we got to chat with today also brought in a perspective from the local citizen and the wildlife groups as well as large land owners. And really the major highlights here was the term connectivity. You know, not focusing on a corridor with firm boundaries, but connectivity between the landscape, between the land that's available, between the land that's being utilized in different ways that the wildlife will wander across. And so again that big point on partnership everyone is excited to hear about us including different groups and being able to bring together the town and the council here today so that we can have these conversations continuing across different regional partners as well as bringing in a balance of interest. You know, the wildlife groups do understand that we need h housing. We need economic drive to help these projects get funded through. And so getting them to be on the same page as as our regional partners and as the town is here today. And so we still understand the need and for continued research. And that's something that is being highlighted to us uh repeatedly by Arizona Game and Fish is things are going to change, habits change, corridors are going to change. And so an aspect of this is is helping us understand how much updates are going to need to occur throughout the years and how we're going to integrate this into general plan updates from here on out. So that's what we've heard so far just in you know really the past month or so. So now we're here to to gather your feedback on the implementation piece. So what does that mean? Um so what you're going to get after after this phase two

is really chapter five. So phase two is going to be added to the foundation guide. Um we might you know call it the plan and document it and put it all together. Um so you'll get an implementation plan that includes um actions that you can take and phasing. Um so the goal of that plan is to guide the next you know year or so but also 5 10 years out where you know some of these projects might be longer term but we're going to work up to them and we're going to build off of them. So today and in your implementation guide in your in your in your plan, you're going to have a variety of tools from planning tools, regulatory funding and policy, and also a number of projects such as capital improvement projects. Each of these tools will be outlined in the plan. It's going to include a description. What does that mean? We'll briefly go over some of those those descriptions today. Those were those were kind of what were in your in the exhibit in the packet. But we're going to add on to that. What is the level of effort? What is the staff needed? What is the funding amount needed? Basically like magnet orders of magnitude cost to get that completed and what are the appropriate steps, timelines and phasing. So do you need to do a certain tool? Do you need to take a certain planning action before you can jump into policy or capital improvements before you do other things? And then a funding approach. And then we're going to provide you with some examples. Where has this been done before? What are some um key considerations for you to take um as you implement that into the next steps? So, a couple definitions um as we go through like John mentioned uh we're now calling this project pathways and there's three project pathways and these are just um three sort of themes to organize the tools around and we'll describe those here in a second. Um and then we have keystone projects. So within each of those there's going to be a number of keystone projects that are identified. So today when you're thinking about what what should we do be doing first we'd love to get some of your feedback on that. So those are our keystone projects, some of the things that might need to be done first. And

this is kind of an example um of a graphic that can you know change as we get your feedback. Um but one of the you know one example could be you know do your general plan update that focuses on the environmental section first. You know that um guides the the future of um implementation for other wildlife actions. So that could be one example. Um and then where are we where are we going? What is the end goal? What is the legacy project? And so there could it could be a project, it could be an outcome, sort of a goal at that very top. And then in between there you'll see all the different types of tools. And then also we have this idea of linkages. So throughout phase one um we heard you know the need to uh well like we were just mentioning too um partnerships and staffing and public outreach. So as we're implementing this isn't the once we finish the plan isn't the last time you go and talk to the community and talk to the public. you're going to continue to do those types of things through all these implementation pieces. So, you're gonna need to have that community support, the public outreach and education. You're need to have staffing and as well as partners. So, all of those are going to be described for each of the tools as well. Okay. Now, we're going to jump into jump into the meat of it. Um so, the three project pathways. So, um these are summarized in sort of a high level at the end of the foundation guide. And we've taken a little bit more time over the past month or two to refine um based on that agency guidance, based on staff, based on what we've um know of the community to um boil those down into a number of tools. So this is the quick overview and then I'll introduce the activity and then we'll go into more detail of each of the tools. So um this is the first one is align land use and development standards with environmental sensitivity. So, building off of the guidance that we've gotten in the guide from what is what are important um connectivity corridors, what's important wildlife connections that we've heard from Arizona Game and

Fish, how can we pull that into guidance for uh future future development to develop in environmentally sensitive ways um in certain areas. Second is to actually conserve high value habitat as well as connectivity areas. Um, and we can do that through a number of of measures, whether that's um, you know, working with willing land owners. Um, whether that's including uh, conservation easements or maybe even direct acquisition. And then finally, and these are no real sports and they can kind of um eb and flow and and happen in tandem and happen in together, but the third one is to develop um a actual wildlife corridor map and then a potential overlay map that would be integrated with your land use code. Okay, this is where we going to we're going to go into the activity. Um so again, we um we want to put into the plan what's implementable, what's actionable. Um, so you have a clear path. Um, the planning staff, the parks department, um, in your partners have a clear path of what should happen first, what needs to happen next, and how we can actually get that implemented. So, we need your input. We need your input on helping to guide the implementation plan. So, we're going to tell you and inform you of all the different types of tools from planning elements to regulatory elements to projects that we can use to um, implement the vision and the goals of the wildlife corridor. Um, and so we want to provide in the document the necessary level of detail. So that's why we need your feedback today. So we're going to rank um we're not going to rank projects. Sorry. We're just going to get your um your input on these and get your ask you for clarifying um ask you to give us clarifying questions so we can um make sure that we have in the plan the necessary information that you need.

Okay. So before we jump into the first description, if you and um commissioners and council members please and I think we have one council member online. Um so this will be um ask for their feedback. Um and we will be going out to the general public and getting their feedback here in the coming months. So we're going to ask you to refrain from participating but um this will be for the joint work session here today. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Hi, Bri King. Uh, Planning and Zoning Commission.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding the assignment correctly. So, if we are looking into the intro into the three project pathways, which we have defined as one, two, and three. What you're saying is these aren't mutually exclusive. They kind of blend together. And so then when we're probably going to be doing our answers based upon these questions that we're being asked, we might be asked to rank them, but just maybe in order of sensitivity or so yeah, at the very end, we're kind of just going to look at the the three overall um pathways together and and look at prioritiz prioritization of the three pathways. So kind of which one is more kind of the first goal for you as well.

Okay. So these are overall pathways that we're trying to get to. We're trying to see which pathway here is of the highest value that we could bring, but they intertwine in between. Got it. Okay. Thank you so much, Miss Christina. May I ask a question? Yes. Thank you, Sandy Griffith. On the um three project pathways. Number two, you've used the terminology high value habitat areas. Number three, you've used the terminology just the word habitat overlay. So, is there a difference with high value habitat areas? I thought it was all high value habitat versus

Yeah, that's a great question and something that I would love to hear your feedback on what kind what kind of criteria should we put into these tools. I don't think that's quite you know, we'll we'll we'll go through those some of those details eventually, but yeah, you're right. Words matter. Do you have anything to add to that there?

Yeah. So, you know, that second project pathway is is more focused on targeted land acquisition, targeted land actions. And so, that's with a focus more on high value habitat versus project pathway number three focuses on all land land home uses. Um, because we know that pong horn as a key species is part of this plan. They don't see the lines and the boundaries that we see. They don't see the land use and the differences of lands that we consider for in what value we place on them versus what value that they have. And so that one looks a lot more towards the connectivity versus just the quality of the habitat and the protection of it. Crash course and planning 101. this is a you know a master's level course in planning here but um so out of the um case studies that we reviewed so really looking at um in the foundation guide we asked um communities around Arizona around um best practices across um the nation as well what's working what's what's what are some of the um guidance and and direction that you took to get to where you are to preserve um wildlife corridors conservation areas protect open space, those types of things. So, these are some of the tools that came out of out of the case studies and what the community as well

is now exiting.

Okay. So, the first one would be looking at the general plan update. So, this could be um probably just we're looking at a minor amendment really to look at your environmental section and and align that um with your um with some of the goals and and policy and vision that's coming out of this document. And so I know that's a you know relatively uh recently um approved document and so we're not going to crack the whole thing open but we could do look at a minor amendment. There are other you know other circumstances where maybe you would look at a major amendment if you're looking at your land use plan. So the general plan is setting your your policy guidance uh to guide some of these other elements. So that is one that we would recommend to kind of look at initially um that would help inform other other tools. Um re the second one is revised plan development agreements. So um a lot of the land um are you know they have some sort of already um entitlement or maybe a development pattern that's already happening. And so one is to look at reszoning that makes that actually incentivize um having straight zoning more in more of an incentive than having their planned agreement. So this is one thing we could look at and this would be coupled with some other tools um where you're looking at different incentives to um help uh look at mitigation um of of of certain areas that are tied to that wildlife overlay. The third is looking at um zoning and development regulation updates. And so this is looking at different standards to be more wildlife friendly. Um th these could happen townwide or they could happen in that wildlife corridor overlay area. So again, that would that's where it kind of these things start to overlap a little bit. Um and so you could look at incentivizing and providing um some of these development

regulation um updates as you know a a way to get other um benefits as well. So we could look at you know native landscaping wildlife friendly site design such as like fencing planting water wise strategies and dark skies standards as well. The next one is around your riparian areas and and flood plane buffers. And so again, this would um look at some of your development regulations to um provide um buffers around your different waterways. And so these may vary depending on the size and the volume and the importance of that wash to not only protect your megapana, but also some of your amphibians as well. Um and looking at different areas and then this also provides that um multi-use benefit. So um you know flood control um if you protect some of these water waterways um and repairarian areas you could um you know have some passive recreation like a trail. So a lot of good waterway corridors are good trail corridors you could have some of those other benefits um with um not only this this concept but some of the other ideas as well. And then cluster development. Um this is a specific subdivision design or conservation development um sometimes that's called is where you um you get a benefit from clustering some of your areas. And we'll talk about some other land use patterns as well. And one of the things that we would want to do is align this with um a corridor overlay so that um folks are clustering. And actually I might move on to this graphic. So you're kind of clustering um all to one side. So if you have whatever your corridor is um then if you have that corridor in place and then you ask folks to cluster or do some sort of transfer of development rights or set aside open space that everyone's kind of doing it in that same vision. And so you're not having like someone's open

space over here and then someone at open space over here which creates smaller islands. But if they put them in the same sort of general area, you're kind of creating a broader um benefit to um to wildlife movement, to trail corridor planning, um to flood control, to other um benefits of with visual um visual identity of looking at um preserved open space as well. So really um this is the question that we'll have for each of the pathways. It's just um trying to get some information from from you if you have any um questions or thoughts about this pathway. Um what are some things that excites you about this pathway? Um if you if you want to yeah you throw your throw your feedback up there or happy to you know hear hear your input as well. This is so this is the question that we'll be asking for each of the pathways and then we'll um have a final question to kind of prioritize and rank the three the three pathways um amongst each other. So yeah, feel free to put something in there if you have any ideas, have any questions. Um yeah, what are we what are we missing? what do we need to make sure we have in the plan that's um that will make this clear for you so that and you can flip open your I guess your packet so you can read those five five things again um so yeah anything around the general plan development agreements regulatory development standards what are the questions any questions or thoughts thoughts. I think you just add one bubble, but you can put as many thoughts in there or if you hit submit and then you think of another idea, feel free to to send it. But does anyone want to Everyone's thinking really hard.

Or if you don't feel like typing, you can just Sometimes it's easier to type, sometimes it's harder to type. And just something for maybe it's too close to that. Um we'll end up with all of these strategies. So it's you know what we're trying to find is what's the right pathway for us to really begin this this whole thing. And this is a long journey ahead. Some of these are heavy lifts. Uh they involve lots of different outside agencies, entities, uh private land owners have to be at the table. That takes a long time to to negotiate those things. There's a lot of regulatory components as we look at updating the zoning codes and stuff. So, um yeah. So, I just want to make sure everyone knows that we'll end up eventually over time with all of these tools, but we want to find what is the best pathway going forward to to begin to implement. Good scroll. If we get another Yeah, a lot of great questions. So these are yeah very good questions for us to clarify in the plan you know um can cattle access yeah we were talking with um a large land owner ranch owner that um you know wildlife habitat happens to be a byproduct of of their land you know so um working with those as well see it always sorry I didn't mean to scroll

And I think a crucial part of some of these questions is really that integration of all three of these project pathways. So we're going to see more and more of of the answers to these questions coming up with some of the actions and tools that will happen with the other project pathways, especially project pathway number three. And so it's really important to know um that the focus isn't about restricting land use but working together with land use on these sort of actions.

I might have missed this in phase one but um and my middle name is kind of skeptical but um what's unfortunately early this afternoon I read a a critique of an an inconvenient truth 20 years later. So, it makes me worry about new kind of concepts that wind up being damaging over time. Like, does a wildlife corridor for the predators become a corridor to the messole, for example, as an unintended consequence? Um, how long has this science been around and how many examples do we have of things that worked or more importantly things that didn't work so we don't repeat those? Thank you.

Yeah, that's a great question from like a biology like from a wildlife like not not I'm I'm I'm less worried about the regulations and more worried about the animals. and in meddling and they're and they're very adaptable creatures.

This afternoon I'm heading uh you know sort of down the hill towards Analopee Hills and by the uh Granite Dell's exit there, you know, 30prong horn laying down very happy 150 yards from the highway. uh if we try to manage you know overmanage that sort of thing that's that's my basic concern and messing up the animals um who are naturally very adaptable. Yeah, I I'll answer from a landing side before we talk about

Yeah, from the wildlife side, you know, there is no there is no managing how and where they want to go. You know, it is about finding a way that we're preserving the area that they are using and that they are pre preferring. And so that's why this continued research is always going to be needed as any part of this implementation plan because things will change, habits will change, and we've seen that across many many projects throughout the years. And you know, even looking back in history um to how the Native Americans tracked tracked these herds, tracked the the ancient bison species that used to be across the landscape here. and so they change their movement patterns. So it's how can we bring in that flexibility into the plan without giving a hard firm um boundary that isn't flexible with with the different uses of the landscape so that we can adapt as we go into the future without restricting ourselves into one area. you know, it's it's a focus on the aspects of the habitat that they need. You know, when we're talking with the large land owner, they are drawn to the water sources that he he has for his cattle. Um, that's a crucial aspect when the aquafria dries up during the dry months and during and with all the other drainages when they don't have any water flowing in them. Um it's crucial for pong horn to take advantage of the ranching infrastructure that we have throughout the valley. And so that can be a really crucial thing where we don't want to limit those land uses that do still support the wildlife and they can work together with the wildlife. And so that's a big aspect of this project pathway number one is bringing together those land uses and so that we can

support that that already joint use that we're having. And I I would also add that, you know, we've been planning for for a while and we do need to look at adaptive management of of wildlife and and and planning and so but we've seen, you know, uh riparian buffers, for example, um benefit um and protection communities from from flood from flood planes. We've seen um communities that were built adjacent to, you know, forested areas burned down. So like looking at different communities where um there's there's good planning that has identified where certain infrastructure has gone to uh you know not create traffic problems too. So if you're kind of planning with all of these aspects in mind, you're having an efficient more efficient community as far as you know more roads to plow and more um infrastructure to manage um those types of things as well. So we're looking at you know efficient planning communities as as well. So yeah, I can't figure out how we can

Can I ask a question, please? Brie planning and zoning. So I'd like to uh maybe ask one of the hard questions related to cluster development. And this is more somewhat I'm I'm very very much an environmentalist myself and all for conserving the animals but I have a question maybe more so towards the citizens of the town and this cluster development piece that we're looking at for number five. And so from being the experts which I'm not in this so that's why we have you right from other clients that you've represented and from the knowledge and background that that you guys have acquired what are the best practices that you have been able to bring to the table and suggestions as consultants as to how do we facilitate such cluster development and I recognize here it's maybe a GP update right and a revised plan and that takes a lot of time and energy and consensus. So what are the best practices and maybe the road of least resistance that we can use for such and then also what happens to those constituents who might be on the side of a corridor where it's not clustered. And so if we want to maybe make that a piece of the area, what happens to those what happens to that property? Where do we go from there? I know that might have been twoprong. Yeah.

So it's kind of a two twoprong question. What's the road of lease resistance to update like maybe a GP or something of that sort meaning the general plan and then what happens to the existing builds from there?

Yeah. Um we can't what is it? You can't write the wrongs of the past. Um and so unfortunat there are certain things we can look at for you know educating community members on you know on landscaping species and fencing um on existing built development. So we're going to be primarily thinking about future future development here. Um and one of the some of the best practices and um that we've seen in cluster development is around the like providing incentives, right? And so um some of those pieces are are are important to to this as well. Um we're also seeing, you know, different different land use patterns, you know, different changes in um folks wanting to downsize as they retire. And so some smaller homes or more affordable homes and things like that too. So some of those things that may that are changing housing patterns as well are probably um in our favor as well.

I don't know Bruce, do you have any other thoughts on that? Yeah. These are more of our how

Yeah. Now just on uh cluster development, how it would work maybe if I answer it that way. So essentially, if you're talking about I like where you were going because it's a really easy tool to get done quickly. Um, in addition to, you know, the general plan amendment might be another way to do it in terms of an overlay, but just imagine that you have an overlay where the wildlife is generally going, you know, and it's a little bit amorphous, but it's generally here. So, it gives you some flexibility. um you provide uh private property owners an opportunity to opt into a cluster development. Why would I ever opt into a cluster development? Meaning restrict some of my land and leave it open space and then develop the rest is because usually that's associated with a multiplier. So if you think about hey I can get uh say it's a large piece of land 100 units or well let's bring it down maybe 10 units on this property. Okay, I can cluster those and I can have 10 over here in smaller development. The rest is open space, but usually it's associated with a multiplier. So if I cluster, your multiplier might be two, so I'm allowed to do 20 units instead of 10. Or I'm allowed to do my property's bigger, maybe the incentive is bigger and I'm allowed to do 30 on that unit. Maybe if it's bigger and I own a huge piece that I I put together, I'm allowed to do a six multiplier or something and I'm allowed to do 60 units and save the rest. So that would be something where that developer could choose maybe wildlife friendly design, keep the current entitlements or choose option B which is incentive base and go get more units but get more open space adjacent to that. As far as you know properties that are adjacent to this

area um are people allowed to this is more a John question. Does the code allow people to exercise that zoning even if they're not in the overlay zone? Maybe they're on the edge, but they still want to use that zoning classification. There may be a family that says, "I love how beautiful it is here. I want my farm in my area to look the same, but I want to make sure that I get a good return on my property. So, I want to execute your new zoning classification or your new incentive, which is this cluster development. even though I'm not part of the overlay zone, but I'm close enough. So, that's something that we would have to work out in your code, but I don't know if that's what you're getting at, but that's an easy, very practical. I wouldn't say till I said I wouldn't say easy more in planning. There's nothing easy, but uh it's a very very obtainable successful tool. Not a lot of drawbacks. Um the one thing I would say is you also asked about lessons learned. You don't you'll see the these sort of books where you see these little pods of six houses, six houses, six houses. It's not the greatest pattern. You're looking for more what you saw in that picture where you see that larger quarter. Um I'll add one other component to that just add some more uh fuel to the fire. It's possible that even your open space is transferable. So where you were going to preserve your open space on your property, you're allowed to actually preserve it somewhere else. uh meaning somewhere else in that wildlife corridor. So, I'm going to do it over here. I'm going to develop all my property, but I'm going to take my I'm going to develop a lot of my property, but I'm going to also do my preservation somewhere else in the in a different part of the corridor. So, I yeah, I hope hope that helps that detail. So,

very helpful. I'm enlightened. Thank you.

Um I wanted to look at this as what what kind of tools does this program have for those that may be more development focused more concerned with the town's growth economic boom they how how do we educate those people um who have that focus at the forefront?

Yeah, definitely. I think we're not trying to um provide one direct complete direction on either side. We're definitely looking at that balance and that flexibility um for the town to to um listen to like the willing willing land owners to come to the table. And so part of that um and we'll talk about conservation easements here in a minute and working with willing land owners to do that. um where you you know you pay for pay for that development um or that right to not develop I should say and so so there's there are some tools in there that will um be really important to work with the partners like the Nature Conservancy and folks that are on the ground um the Catelan or the Central Arizona Land Trust Alliance people that want to um be on the ground and and talk to and and kind of establish those relationships and it's really about the those relationships with specific land owners and that um that education push to them. Got some groupings of some conversations. So, we'll continue to yeah put in some more information about wildlife management, um water protection, corridor standards, and other elements as we go forward. Oh, man. Sorry, I'm having issues with the different screens here. Okay. So we will continue to refine and address those considerations as we look to get put your implementation plan. So we'll move into project pathway number two. So conserving habitat and that highv value habitat and that connectivity. Um there's a number of ways to look at doing this. Um so some of these are also land use uh kind of concepts as well. So density bonuses and so density bonuses um is where you get you know that incentives or that tradeoff for um the mitigation of protection of open space within a wildlife quarter. So if we have

that sort of yeah amorphous uh wildlife overlay then you can opt into um density bonuses. That's another kind of similar to cluster development um conservation easements and so um working with partners to to hold conservation easements. believe Yavapai County is is currently working towards becoming a certified land or they are thinking about um being in the conservation easement realm, but other conservation easement holders such as land trust could um come in and work with willing land owners. Um and part of that um you know there are funds there's transaction cost there's the the fee to take that that percentage of that development. Um so there is some funding um that could be um helped to to move that forward. Um direct acquisition, you know, if you want to be in the the realm of managing open spaces um and we could look at some of that uh fund uh is one one option. um a lot of communities who um want to have an open space, you know, department and manage lands um or you could look at different partners like um that would would want to do that type of activity. Um transfer development rights and so this is where you have sending and receiving areas. So you would um similarly want to develop um a a mapping element and um to what areas would be your sending areas. And so this is the sending areas are taking those development rights um and setting them away. And then you identify different receiving areas. And so this is um conversation to identify where those receiving areas would be. So where do we want to have higher density um and then there's a you know fiscal analysis, a financial model to um make everyone kind of whole throughout that process. And so we would need to um complete a study to

see if that's feasible, if that's desirable, and what areas would be um amendable to that type of of program. And then finally, you know, working a restoration plan. This could be working with existing open space lands, existing land owners um as well as um any lands that are newly conserved um to to conserve those lands for those wildlife habitat values. This could be um informing people of of how to conserve or how to restore the land, what are best like grazing practices, what are best management practices of that land. Um and then finding research and grants and funding to you know work on um you know a repairarian quarter that might be insized or something like that as well to um be more um amunable to soil health and to waterway health um as well. So those are different ways we can um conserve that hive that high value habitat. This is just um kind of a similar s different diagram of how you could how you could do that. Like I mentioned for transfer development rights you would identify some of those sending areas and those receiving areas um as well. So that's kind of just a quick overview. Okay. on to the same question about pathway two. So we're talking about density bonus, conservation easements, direct acquisition, you know, what are some of their thoughts on this? What are the questions? Any of these really excite you? What's missing? What do we need to I mean this we're trying to give you a a quick overview, but we want to make sure that in the plan that we provide all answer any questions that you have about this. So, um, when it comes to who implements this tool, what are the partners? Um, any questions we can clarify when we're putting together the implementation plan?

Hi, Janelle Keel with the Presca Valley Town Council. um when we're talking about um conservation, putting it in a conservancy like the nature conservancy, would the wildlife corridor would would those rights be transferred into something like that or would it be transferred to the town? Um you know, are those are the two options, right?

Yeah. So, um the land still stays with the will with the with the land owner. So, whoever if a conservation easement is an agreement um by a land owner to um give up their rights to to develop and build on that land. Um often they get like a building envelope for like an extra house or a building um where they can do that and then they have to have certain prescriptions of like this is how we're managing the land. This is the restoration that we're going to do on this land. But it still stays within the ownership and the management of that land owner. Um the conservation easement and like the the um the rights of that and that monitoring is held by a land trust or conservation a certified um conservation easement holder. And so like the nature conservancy, a county can be a conservation easement holder. Um a city can even be a conservation ement holder. All that means is that they are going to come in and monitor, make sure you're that you're not building um outside of that development envelope that you said and they're going to um work with that land owner to um um protect that land and manage for the resources that are on the land. So that's what it means to be a conservation easement holder. It's, you know, it's some staffing and some time um to do that. You have to monitor conservation easement every year. Um, but it's not like they it's not like the the conservation easement holder is managing that land. The the land owner is managing that land.

Two answers in there that sort of sounded the same. I was having problems with the app, so forgive the rep. You're having apps. Oh, sorry about that. Are you able to get back on? Okay. And can the town um transfer land to say the nature conservancy to do a a a conservancy easement uh if some of the town own land is in a wildlife corridor? Yeah. So the town Yeah. The town can still own the land and manage the land and have the development rights held by the conservation easement holder. So but would be protected. Um yeah. Yeah. Sure. Okay.

Yeah. So, um, previously I'd done some work in New Hampshire with the, uh, Society for Protection of New Hampshire Forest, which is one of the oldest, um, conservation land trust, um, organizations in the United States. Um, and so over they've been around for over 100 years. And one of their key aspects of their conservation easement program um is jointly working with towns, municipalities to have a a joint working and conservation focus and plan for each property that they get so that they can jointly manage with the land owners to achieve uh whichever goal is identified to be key for the property. whether it be restoration, whether it be forestry management, which was a key aspect in that state, um, or whether it be creating a new open space for the public to be able to come to and enjoy the property.

So, yeah, kind of to answer that other question, the con the easement acquisition is done by the conservation easement holder. So, like a the nature conservancy or land trust. I have a question also from Kendall Sheam uh town council um on part of this it looks like that this has trails and parks master plan and I know we're planning on doing the lasso loop which will be um a lot of traffic on it let's say for horses, bicyclists, pedestrians, whatever. Um if it looks like part of this actually goes into where there's um like trails and parks looks like it has also part of where the conservatory is. So how close are people going to be able to get to this area um to photograph even for a lot of people who like to photograph wildlife. I know there's more than just the um pong horn, but I know when I drive um 89A, especially in the morning or late afternoon, I see all the pong horn there anyway. Um, but I know it's for all other wildlife as well. And I was just wondering if the having the citizens or the people there, is that going to interfere with the natural habitat of what the animals are going to adapt to?

Yeah, I think a couple pieces of that. Um, one, it would depend on the actual land that is conserved and that that land owner. Um, another piece is that sort of the definition of of open space. Um, and looking at um through your general plan update to um identify more preserve versus um pass and and passive um recreation types of activities that we would want and that could uh be in tandem with wildlife movement. We see that in other um you know other jurisdictions that there's there are trails um and there's certain densities of trails that you could recommend um versus other types of of of parks and open spaces that are um more active develop. And so I think that was that's one of the things you could do in your general plan and your um regulations is defining what that means. And so when that area is up for that conservation that you're like, "Okay, this is the type of open space that we want it to be and these are the activities that we think are um, you know, consistent with wildlife movement." Um, yeah, wildlife can can cohabitate with trails if there's like a large enough buffer, if they feel like they're um, you know, have that sight distance as well. Um, yeah. Does that answer?

Yes. Thank you. Anything else on pathway two? Okay, so our third pathway um is around developing a wildlife corridor and and habitat overlay map. So I'll pass this over in a minute. Awesome. So this pathway really has much more directionality. So there is an order of action that would need to occur for each of these steps to fall into place and to work together. And so starting with that is the wildlife corridor overlay. So this is the map that would provide the soft boundary of targeted area that would aim for where we want to support agriculture, support acquisition of conservation easements, support the acquisition of parks and open space, support how we'd want cluster development and these planned developments to take action. as well as then in the future guide trails plans, guide transportation plans so that we can have these ideas and these locations that we want to prioritize these development regulations. Following that is research. Research is huge. Um the climate and environment is ever changing around here as well as the habitat and the movement of all the species in this area. And so this is something that Arizona Game and Fish as well as regional groups really want to work together on and must just keep being integrated in with this overlay map. So ideally this wildlife corridor overlay map continues with each general plan update and will be updated regularly with the research that is done. Then we have wildlife crossing designation. So following the research and integrating with this corridor

overlay map is identifying those key locations of wildlife crossings and aiming those towards capital improvement projects. So whether it is updating of signage for certain locations, updating fencing, updating considerations for transportation and then leading into our fourth action of fencing, transportation and wildlife crossing plans and standards. So add creating that sort of standard around with the usage of transportation, with the usage of trails, with the usage of development so that the fencing, transportation and wildlife crossings can come together to really support the human wildlife conflict and reduce that human wildlife conflict to then support that movement of the habitat and the wildlife and connect each of these landscapes. and so that we can still have all of the areas, all of the uses, but can connect across the different barriers that we have throughout the town. And then finally, you know, that fifth that legacy project would be a wildlife overpass. And so as research has been done with the support of state agencies, federal agencies, we can aim towards a large capital improvement project with the state and federal funding to create that beautiful wildlife overpass that then connects the landscapes,

which I know is the dream. It's the dream. And so that's kind of this project pathway. It's got its sort of steps and directionality that needs to come together to then get to that end legacy vision.

One one of the I I I attended a uh a game and fish presentation about the the wildlife migration in the area and one of the uh big problems they they stated was it John? Was it Mr. Gagnen? Was that Jeff? Jeff Gagnon. Yeah. Uh he he indicated that one of the uh things holding us back from having good data is that there's not enough uh there aren't enough collars uh GPS collars for the prong horn. And that seems like a fairly minor barrier that we should be able to uh you know it it's one thing to to build a a a highway overpass. It's another thing to you know buy some collars.

Right. what what what can we do to make that happen? Yes. So that's a really um great starting point for talking about like the partnerships and looking towards grants that can then support the town to help support research around whether is be collaborating with Arizona Game and Fish so that you guys can bring on a consultant biologist that will help conduct the studies for you so that we can find these key crossing points that we want to aim these development regulations towards or working with one of the land trust or nature conservancy groups around so that they can help support their research that they're going to be doing and that that can be integrated within our future plans.

Kaden grass planning and zoning. I have two questions. Uh one, you you touched on the funding. Could you elaborate a little more on the overall funding for this project? You mentioned the state and federal grants. What other options are there? But what is on the funding tool belt?

Yeah. Yeah. And feel free to as I'm talking to add some more comments on funding into this um mentee here as well. But um we will be providing some funding um recommendations for basically a toolkit in the in the plan as well. Um so there are there will be a need for a some sort of dedicated funding. Um your um privilege privilege privilege use sales tax or property tax um at the county level um could be an option. Um we see that across many communities to dedicate um um a portion of those fundings to projects. um those are very well um documented as as things that could be used for um in perpetuity. Um it's not easy to get grants and you need staff to write grants and you often need matching funds um for those grants. Um and so having a um having some sort of dedicated funding source is going to be most likely needed. I'll you love to hear some feedback on that as well. Um but we will have a number of other funding sources. Um there's yeah partnerships at the county level at the simple there's federal grants um sort of the federal climate um keeps changing as well and so we've we saw a lot of um programs through COVID recovery IRA funding you know but those big funding bill packages change a lot and um your state transportation um funding as well u there could be priorities in your state your state funding transportation um but again those are all things that require effort to go to go after um so I will say that there yeah there's going to have to be a mix of um of partnerships, grants, and maybe it may be a dedicated source.

Thank you. My second question refers back to the project pathway one. Um I know the term acquisition easements, people get really scared, uh think you're taking their their land, they can't do anything on it. Can you explain it to us as as we're children almost? Yes.

Yeah. Um so conservation easement is where a willing land owner um takes their uh so every based on how your um zoning is you are dedicated to and entitled to um a certain amount of level of devalument and so that's worth something that's worth monetary cost. Um and so conservation easement is a willing land owner um gives up that right for that development and so they get paid for that um buil that removal of that development right. Um there's also some some states have um incentives to to monetize that and and and and give you your benefits for that as well and reduce your your tax liability also. So you you're reducing your tax liability and so there's sort of multiple layers of of benefits that way as well. So

I see that a lot with ranchers. So if you have a ranching family and uh let's say you know they're probably not going to have the kids wanting to continue, it's a great way to to preserve all of that, but they're able to still have the ranching operation, the lifestyle, but they're not having to to, you know, carry the the cost of that property. That's why I ask so those that aren't aware can reduce the fear. Yeah. It's it's a common thing of like you're taking my land. No, we're we're protecting it into perpetuity. Yeah. And it's all done with willing

on this same question. What does has it looked like other there are other towns that have adopted simil these this process and what are we getting ourselves into what uh I I have a feeling that not everyone is going to agree 100% on implementing this so what in re in in typical communities what kind of uh responses were there what did it look like

yeah you were I'll I'll kick off with talking about one of the case studies that we looked at in the first phase. And so that was looking at the town of Morirana here in Arizona and all the work that they've done. And so over the last 20 years, they've been implementing through research studies through town their town general plan and working together with the county as well as the sonor and desert conservation to implement their wildlife corridor and movement through their town. And you know what they've really seen is really positive development, really positive planned communities coming in and working with this. And they have a whole game camera system up on some of their wildlife underpasses and overpasses tracking the animals that are using them. and they've seen really good success with the research that they've done with Arizona Game and Fish um through correctly identifying these right passages, placing them in crucial areas and then animals using them and so that we have this direct connect connectivity across the town between the two conservation areas that surrounds them kind of in a similar situation where we are with the Forest Service surrounding us. And so we see the success they have there. Even though they are a slightly larger town, they were able to work through that over the last two decades to now a very very functionable actions that had are integrated in every level from their transportation plans to their town general plans to now a really successful um natural areas. I'll just add what was there during many of those years. Um what we saw happen and there there were many debates and and you know p private property owners

that were concerned developers who felt like this was you know undue regulation and and whatnot. I think once a lot of some of these planning efforts were all, you know, put into place, developers began to realize we could, you know, they could make more money, they could have better uh outcomes, um, still build and I think it started to create a u where there weren't any surprises.

So in our environment, we have surprises all the time, right? So a developer comes in and they want to go through they go through a process and then it turns into a whole community debate. If you know upfront this area that has been mapped out, we know where some of these corridors are. This is a highly sensitive area. And if you're going to be in that area, here's the things you're going to have to do. So, it's all kind of laid out where we still can accommodate our future of our community and have growth and and welcome growth in in areas, but we're also really put in place the protection for open space and those connectivity. And you just you eliminated so many surprises of people going through a whole process and then it having, you know, people being upset about it. So, it was a really good way to kind of level set all the way through. Um, and you know, developers began to realize, wow, you know, we can market homes built in this particular area that you're next to a permanent wildlife corridor, preserve, whatever you call it, and you know, the value goes up astronomically. And the quality of life for those residents, they know like that's going to be permanent open space. Uh, and so everyone kind of benefits with that.

Right. Very, very well said, Gilbert. I think that's I was going to add on to that the the benefits, the predictability with also having that flexibility where you can opt into some of these things, but it creates that multiple benefits where yeah, you're next to wildlife corridor and so you're you can sell more more properties at maybe a higher value. Um you you're attracting, you know, high quality residents that want to be a part of this community. And and we still have some challenges. is we still have to talk through, you know, um some of the criteria for for the wildlife quarter. So, I think we still we still have conversations to have. So, that might be, you know, some of the the considerations, but

just and one other thing, the difference, we don't have a protected species here, which is a good thing. Um Pimac County where Tucson, Morirana, or a valley, they had several endangered species. So, they had a a pig, it's called the pygmy owl. It's a cute little owl. uh when that got put on the endangered species list, you know, that triggered federal uh literally it shut down development and broad huge areas of the community. And so, you know, we don't have that. And I think that we have an opportunity to really kind of look at it. You know, obviously prongghorn is near and dear to everyone, but there's other species too that we want to think about in terms of how do you get from one mountain range to other mountain ranges for that c, you know, being able to to cross over for breeding purposes and prey and and whatnot. So, there so I think we are in a good position where we don't we're not up against the federal government saying um you now have this and now all of your plans are put on hold until you get this figured out. So I think we're this is we're doing some really bold innovative things I think as a community and are going to help to lead the way for the rest of the region with this type of of thinking. Any other questions? And so yeah feel free to ask us any other questions. We do want to get your feedback on two more questions. This one um is about which project pathway would you prioritize? And I know some people put in some feedback on that last slide of of rearranging some things and we can look at doing that. So happy to hear any feedback on on prioritization. Um as well as if you have any ideas on, you know, if there's one key project or thing that you want to see happen, um throw that in there.

Yeah, I think the wildlife mapping is critical. Um, and I was curious, are you working with Prescuit or Yavapai County at all? Okay. Because there are areas that connect that that there are some areas that are at risk very soon.

That will definitely be. Yeah. And some of the initial mapping that we have in the foundation guide shows that bigger that bigger framework of the of the wildlife movement and conservation and um you know corridors that come through the headarters of you know the aquafria for example that come through the town will want to connect with um broader conservation that also makes it um more feasible to folks that want to hold um the conservation easements for example they don't want to see as much like they don't want to see the patchwork right they want to see a bigger vision. Um so working with the county and and and having some of these conversations at the broader level I think um are very important. So all of this will have to have some regional coordination for sure

and they seem they seem um ready to do this. So conversations I've had. Oh, any other thoughts? The other breaking planning and zoning, the other piece that I really like about pathway project three with this wildlife corridor overlay is that it way requires the collaboration that we need with the state

and these other big players that are going to be involved. And so getting that relationship, maintaining that relationship, getting them involved in such relationship then really builds that rapport that will then have that trickle down effect to everything else that comes there too.

Got one final question. If you had to summarize your vision for the next 20 years with wildlife in Prescott Valley, what would that be? So what do you want us to take home that we want to make sure is in this implementation plan? You know, what's your main main goal? Just kind of bigger big picture if you were if you were writing your post postcard to yourself in 20 years. Um would it be that one big project? Should we put all of our coins in one big project? Should we focus on some smaller projects? Another way to think about it,

a whole picture. A big picture. Yeah. Can you draw us a picture? Yeah.

Yeah. Later. Waiting to see what other people say first. What is there? Any other final questions or thoughts as we um you know work with the town staff the technical advisors stateand a do game and fish um we really want to make sure that they're part of this implementation plan getting those regional partners on on board as well. So, um, any other thoughts as we start to draft draft the plan for for your review? The implementation piece of the plan, I should say. How does it impact current development? Um, Right. Yeah, we are, you know, we are primarily looking at influencing yeah the future undeveloped areas and so that's the main

the main impact that this will have. Um not going to tell anyone to not going to buy anyone's land and tell them to tear tear down their house because that's where we want the pong horn are. So okay. Um yeah, any other questions or discussion? we can um we can take that now. But I do want to just let you know the next steps. So um this month and next month we'll be drafting that implementation plan. So that chapter of the F wildlife corridor plan um we'll be continuing to meet with um the technical advisors. Um number of them we mentioned to you today um to make sure everyone's on the same page. Um March we'll be preparing the plan for public input and then in April we'll be doing community outreach. I should add here we'll be coming back to a joint work session probably in April as well. Um and then so we'll share with you the the recommendations how the plans coming together and then we'll take um we'll have the community outreach. We'll have some online virtual engagement that will probably be open through you know the end of April and then we'll finalize um the plan and the chapter um for you um in in June. Uh that's kind of our tenative plan is to have the the plan adopted by council in June.

John, anything else.

Um if I could just quickly thank you again. I know it's an awful lot. I mean really um if you're feeling overwhelmed, you're not alone. It's it's a lot of information. It's a rigorous process and we know this. We've been through this to some extent some of us um these folks many more times. But but recognize that it it just to be real it's a lot and you look at each of these pathways even individually it can be overwhelming. So we understand that and that's why we're looking at a longer rigorous process uh to really end up where we're most comfortable you know and that synergy between development and uh the conservation the wildlife corridor that we're talking about it it's just so dynamic and and we see some of the comments and we're in agreement. I mean, it's a lot of variables and a lot of things to consider. It can be overwhelming, but really appreciate your time. I'd also like to thank Gilbert and the management office. I mean, think about um, you know, the facilitation and why we're even to this point. Um, really, you know, give thanks for that. And I know Gilbert reached out, correct me if I'm wrong, early on, you know, to game and fish to contacts he had from his past uh experience with the conservation plan that he mentioned uh but also with the county uh which was previously uh Simpo now Y Plan um you know brought them in. Gilbert brought us in the room just to kick this thing off and talk about the regional aspect of this and that continues. So we appreciate that uh as well. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that that we wouldn't be sitting here today, standing here today if it wasn't for that facilitation. Uh so thank you all. We appreciate it.

And again, vice chair, I have one question. Go for it, Sandy.

Thank you, John. And I don't understand how we can um implement and adopt and bring forward a final plan without having any dollars connected to it and know what we are going to do. How how does that happen? Um if I could and you guys jump in uh you know my simplistic uh understanding and approach I mean we're working through that um and we've we've agreed that this plan will have a schedule of fees in it and ranges of each of these elements which will help us you know move forward and implement and um so that that is a requirement to be in this plan. Uh, yes. Yes.

Can I ask staff to definitely send Logan Simpson's information to all of us just so we if anyone has a questions or any, you know, concerns and so forth that we can relay uh to Logan Simpson. Uh, I would definitely appreciate that. Uh, definitely want to thank Logan Simpson and staff for all their hard work for up to this point. And if there's anything else from anybody, we'll stand adjourned.