Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

Everybody, I hereby call to order the November 14th, 2025 public hearing of the City of Prescat Preservation Commission. Members present are Rick McMy, James Macccarver, Rob Johnson, Mike King, Diane Travis, the vice chair, and I'm Rick Sprain, the chair. Uh, other staff members, Alex is not here. Tammy Dit, community planner. Jacob Lund, Chelsea Walton. Yep, they are. And the mayor, and they're not here. And we have J. This is uh Susanna Bond. She's one of our new assistant planners. Welcome.

Welcome.

Welcome. This is a open public hearing and is being recorded by the city. The proceedings are being televised by representatives of the public media, local cable and/or radio stations and may also be rebroadcast. The number of commissions present is six. I can add is required a majority vote of those present to pass a motion. All parties wishing to be heard will be expected to state their name for the record. Please speak loudly and clearly close to the microphone at the podium in front of me. and please turn off or mute all your electronic devices. Next on the agenda is to approve the October 20th, 2025 prescuit preservation committing minutes. Do we have any comments on it? Rick Himry, I wasn't here at last meeting, so I can't uh approve or disapprove these.

Do I have a motion to pass? Diane Travis, I move to pass the October 20, 2025 minutes. It's Rob Johnson. I second that. All in favor? I. And motion passes. Next down B, HP25-00007, a request for signage approval for a new business in Doc's Barbecue and Whiskey located at 202 South Monizuma Street and Goodwin.

Thank you. Good morning, chairman, members of the committee. Tammy Duet, community planner. So, we have before you a a request for a new signage at the previous coat grill for Doc's Barbecue and Whiskey. Um, here are some uh historical pictures of the property. Um, pre-fire, we did have a four-story hotel in the corner there. And then, uh, after it burned down, we had another building built. It was had different uses. There was an oil change facility. Then, I think the last was the cigar shop. and and then was vacant for a while until the uh new owners um purchased the property and they developed it into the Colt Grill property which you guys reviewed a a few times in front of this body. So um now we have a new sign that's being proposed. It is approximately um 20.53 square ft. It's [snorts] at the same location that um the Colt grill sign was. It um will be the letters will be white with text um docs barbecue and whiskey in large font with a amber halo illumination. The land development code does allow up to 96 square feet of signage on the building, but this is all that's being proposed at this time. We did review it against the historic preservation uh guidelines. The master plan for the courthouse plaza historic district um which the district for signage promote continued use of courthouse plaza historic district as a cornerstone commercial and business area with historical consistent and compatible development. Use historically consistent signage. Use only flat against the building. No flashing, revolving or roof mounted signs are permissible. and use incandescent or neon lighting for signage. Box cabinet or fluorescent signs are not acceptable in this district. So, this was reviewed against that criter criteria. It was found to be in compliance.

And that concludes my presentation for this and I'm happy to answer any questions that you have for this portion of the Do we have a representative here that would like to talk about it? Sorry. We have our sign guy here, sir, that can answer any of the questions for the sign. Do we have any questions from the commission? I just wanted to verify that the lighting itself is not a fluorescent light. There's no fluorescent aspects to it.

No, it's LED. And the how far from the wall does it extend? Uh we're going to keep it pretty tight to the wall. We'll keep it about a/ inch, maybe 3/4. So the whole sign itself will be 6 in. Uh the letters, I believe, are 2 in deep. And then you have your half inch standoff. So you're talking 2 and 1/2, 2 and 3/4 in. Any other discussion or questions?

Diane Travis. I move to approve HP25-007. We have a second. I second the motion, Mr. Chairman. Mike King. All in favor? I I I oppose. Motion carries 6.

Okay, we'll just go to the next one which is HP250008 for the same Doc's barbecue and whiskey for their exterior improvements that they're proposing. So what they're proposing to do on the property is install new retaining wall with versal lock block 8 by6 to level the patio floor [snorts] to the existing exterior interior floor. Install ADA compliant pavers 12x6 on entire north and east patio areas. Install new metal and wood design safety fence around the patio. Um, you did previously approve a fence and I do have pictures in the in the presentation what was approved before and what they're proposing now. Remove existing smoker at the northeast elevation. Install a new smoker on the west corner of the property which has kind of already been done if you've been by there. If you look at the front that front patio cover where the smoker was has been removed and the smoker [snorts] they have permits for that. Um create new bar area at the northeast patio and install metal frame and standing seam metal patio covers painted black to match the building over the north and northeast patios. So this was also reviewed against the prescuit preservation master plan. Um so use only um integral natural colors of a neutral tone compatible with the building and the district. As we know, the building they put in the the black brick and that that's what the whole building was made out of and that's not going to change. Um, compatible use of materials strongly encouraged to continue design theme established in the district at the turn of the 20th century. Details of a facade can add character, vitality, and a sense of craftsmanship. And details should generally be constructed of materials already present in the building as in brick. If different materials are used,

they should be compatible to the primary material material. So, this is showing what they're proposing for the outside patio area. They're going to Let's see how this works. So, they'll put in these pavers to level it. It does slant with a lot of drainage, so they want to fix that to make it a level patio. Um, they'll put the new fencing, which will be vertical instead of horizontal. That was approved before. And then a new ADA ramp too from from the patio area. This is what was approved previously um in 2020 2022. Um they had like I said the horizontal fencing between uh the the um planter boxes. This was kind of installed on the property. They didn't really finish it. So but they're proposing something new now. So this kind of details some of the improvements they're doing. So, the front entry here is being turned into a bar area, and then they'll have another new entrance area. And then we'll have the outdoor patio area that will be leveled out to be more user friendly. And then there's some other improvements they're doing for for the new business. And the smoker has been moved back to back in this area. And it's electric smoker, so it won't smoke as much as the LA the other ones did. So hopefully some of the complaints that we had before will not apply for this one since it's an electric smoker. So for the patio cover, um when this first came to us, it was wrapped around, but now they're just proposing it over this area, which is be the new bar area and then over the new patio area to provide shelter and make it more user friendly throughout the year. Um, and what they're proposing is the uh cover to be the black um standing seam metal to kind of blend with the brick. Um,

they at first they were proposing a fabric, but um, we feel that the metal will be more withstanding for the weather we have here and look a lot better on the property than having something fabric over that patio area. So, this was reviewed against our criteria and felt it was met. There there isn't a whole lot about patio covers in the master plan. Um, but we do wanted to have consistent material that blends well with the property as we see in this picture that before they had kind of the corrugated metal that was approved over the cover there for the smokers. Um but so the the streamlined what they're proposing now will be a lot smooing and uh probably more compatible with the building. So that concludes my presentation. I'm free to answer any questions that you may have.

The outdoor where the bar is that going to be an outdoor bar? Yes. With an open area to the inside with seating or is this strictly outdoor patio type? I'll defer to the applicant more about that. Um what they're proposing for that. Please come forward. Yes. State your name.

Morning chair, vice chair. It's Kel Paluda. I'm part of the team with the docs barbecue. The question in regards to there won't be access to the bar for patrons from the inside. It'll just be an outdoor seating. So what what you currently have seen before at at Colt where the where they would have the smoker right there and then it was fenced off. It's no bigger the footprint is no bigger than that. And then the cover there would be no bigger than what was approved before. Um that corrugated metal that was currently extending over the smoker. That had to be removed because when Colt constructed it with the smoker, they welded everything to that. So when we first came to the city, one of the big concerns and questions were what is going to happen to that smoker? And we immediately our plan from day one was to move it and get it out of there. Um that's an old type of smoker and we constantly heard complaints where there would be a lot of smoke going throughout the plaza. And the new smoker we got, it is electric, but it does run on wood as well, but it's a new state-of-the-art technology where it burns a very clean smoke where you'll smell barbecue, but you won't have that dirty haze that lingers throughout the plaza, so you won't quite even know it's there. In regards to the smoker, the canopies, are they going all the way out to the edge of the property to the sidewalk or are they kind of hard to tell there? How far out does that extend? So there'd be about it would go about 20 feet from the building out and there's about 24 feet to the to the sidewalk. And the reason with the metal, the metal would allow for it to be more flat. And then at the closest to the sidewalk, you'd have more of a height as opposed to if you did cloth, it has to be more of a slope. And we're being told it would only be about 6'8 almost 610 at that lowest point, which

we felt was kind of low. And in reference the patio pavers as we all know it's currently like a parking lot literally. Um Colt had picnic tables with sitting with uh over the handicap parking spots and you can still see the lines painted. Uh we got a lot of complaints while we've been out there over the last 8 weeks. People talking about the challenges they had entering into the building because of it was a parking lot. It was sloped a certain way. And our goal is to have a level patio uh with pavers throughout the whole thing with ADA access to make it easier.

Yeah, this is Rob Johnson. [clears throat] So the bar that's out front, so I assume there's no access from the sidewalk into that open bar and the only access is from within the building to it, right? No, sir. There' be there'd be access currently how they cult had it where it was accessed with a quasi fencing where people be able to walk into the area where they had outdoor dining. The access points would be similar to that. So they still be able to be seated or walk in from the sidewalk and sit down and not necessarily have a drink. They could have dinner there as well. Um and it meets all of liquor liquor board requirements. They're compliant with that as well. All right. Thank you. And just out of curiosity,

are you going to have it so they can have sides put down for the wind and rain? And that's the goal, sir. Yes, sir. To have shading, shade as well as heaters uh for the winter time, misters for the summertime. Any other questions? That's Jim Macarvery. So, the the reason you couldn't put fabric u was uh it had the fabric has to slope at a different angle than the metal roof. Yes. Why is that? Building the building code requires it for the snow loads that we have here.

And there was one picture, I don't think you showed it in our packet that showed like red fabric covering the area. Or was that just uh

that was previously what they were proposing was the fabric, but after discussing it more with them and the criteria for the courthouse plaza that they came forward with the the metal at the the last minute before we had the packets out. So, we were able to provide that information to you. But that was what they were proposing to do. Like you see at Park Plaza, how they have the fabric covers over that patio. That's what they were proposing at first. But um they come back with the metal which will blend a lot better with that brick and look a lot nicer there than that the fabric would have and it meets our design criteria to blend in with the building in the surrounding area. Although for the historic district they recommend awnings with fabric

but these aren't awnings or patio covers and it doesn't really address it in the the master plan of patio covers. Yeah. So, that was one of the biggest challenges we had trying to figure out where else in the overlay this would be consistent with. And Courtney, uh, we we've talked a lot with her and trying to figure out what works down at that location to be able to provide that outdoor seating as opposed to what was currently there with literally Bud Light and Michelob Ultra umbrellas in that parking lot for outdoor eating. the retaining wall. What's the height of that at the

So, currently, if you go back, if you can just move the next slide forward, uh, for those of you familiar with it, there's currently black planters that are there. Um, those are a little bit of a challenge. Those we found out are city planters that were put in we think during the enterprise car rental days for when it was basically stopping cars from going out of the sidewalk the way they had it configured in the parking lot. So at the highest point which would be the furthest west we expect the the retaining wall to be about 22 in. So if the planters were to stay the planters are currently about 18 in high. So the retaining wall at the highest point would extend about 6 or 8 in visible at that point. Um, but then as you proceed further towards Monizuma, the wall will virtually end up being flush to the ground. So there's only going to be a small portion that will basically be 18 in 20 in tall

and that butts right up to the sidewalk.

So what is in between? We would butt up to the planter and the planter butts up to the sidewalk. Ideally, we would love to remove the black planters and I think you might have a picture of it in your packet. They're literally just concrete. Some of the planters have rebar showing out of them. The plants are all dead and we were hoping to just take all that out and make it a consistent consistent wall. If you guys are in love with the planters, that's fine. It's our design will still work on the other side. It would just be more aesthetically pleasing if the planters were gone. Do you plan on refurbishing the planters and or using them for plants or is that totally city responsibility? Well, we Yeah, that I don't know what is going on or what the deal is, but there's a bunch of dead plants. And if if the planters stay, we would love to be able to take care of it and make it look a lot better than what it is. But ideally, if we could remove the planters, it'd be a more consistent look with the retaining wall. And again, even by removing the planters, the retaining wall will still only be 22 in at the highest point, 22 to 24 in. So Tammy Hoots decides whether the planters stay or go. Is that a city decision?

Well, I mean if they wanted to remove them, they can get a a demo a permit from us to remove them. Um who is they? The app them the applicant so that they can apply to remove those from the city right away. Um we don't maintain them. It would be the responsibility of the property owners to maintain them, but if they want to remove them, they can get a permit to remove them through the a rightaway permit. We would need permission though from you guys. There's nowhere else that has these planters. I don't know if you know that or not, but just that strip is the only place on the plaza that has the planters. And like I said, we believe they were put in during the car rental the car rental days

just for safety purposes. for a safe from that position. Your wall probably provides more safety from a car crashing in than the planters. We would like to think so. And then current, as I mentioned, currently it it is falling apart. It's um not very uh appealing to the eye. So, the city wouldn't look at that and say they're not needed anymore. He would have to actually apply for a to remove them. Is that on your property? city property. City property. Yes.

There currently is a one portion of the planter. If you've been there, if you can picture it, there's a a a portion of the planter. It matches the current planters that run parallel to the sidewalk, but there's a part that te's off that goes towards the building that is on our property, but the other part that is connected to is city property. And we've already been approved to remove the part that goes that's on our property so we can have a flush patio. Um, but they told us that we can't touch the planners until you folks say it's okay or not. And again, it's totally fine if you guys don't want us to touch it, but we were willing to make that part look better.

Diane, Travis, Tammy, can we put that in with our motion that he's allowed to remove those planners so that he doesn't have to come back a second time? Yes, that would help streamline that. Mr. Chairman. First of all, Mr. Mayor, thank you for being here. Oh, today I'm Kell. [laughter] [snorts] I listen to Kell on the radio. I don't know why, but I do. Anyway, I'm not sure why you do, sir, to be honest.

Uh, I had the privilege this morning walking around town like I normally do and do my research, and I met Mr. Ag and I've got a a very thorough orientation to what you're doing today. And uh first of all, I'm embarrassed that if the city put up these planters that they don't take care of them and if there's rebar hanging out, that's a safety issue. Uh so if you want to remove those, that we make that a condition, fine. But that's that's still that's up to you. I think they would look better, your site would look better without the the planters, but that's up to that's up to you. Uh secondly, thank you for the thorough uh pre-work that was included in your package. Um, I have no objection. I think that the uh the color like the clarification on the color it's going to they're going to be black even though it's blue on the first they were red now they're blue and but it's going to be black. I stood there and I understand the slope of the awnings and why it's there. Uh it's much more visually appealing. It's less of a parking lot industrial looking uh site that it is now. Even though we approved it, this will enhance that corner. Uh, I'm just wanted to commend your company and partnerships in doing so. I fully support what's presented today. Thank you.

Anybody else? Do we have a motion? Uh, Mr. Chairman, my name is Michael King and uh I move that we approve the project. I don't want to have the number right here right now, but uh it's on the screen. 508. Thank you. And that would be with the condition that if you wanted to remove the planters, that's you don't you wouldn't have to come back to this to us to uh to do that. We're we're supportive of removing the planters. I second that. Will that motion work for you?

All in favor? I I guess motion carries 6. Thank you. Thank you very much, guys. When do you plan on opening? [laughter] Hopefully first week of December. December 1st is a Monday. Hopefully, we're cooking some barbecue. So, you're all welcome to come on down. Thanks, guys.

And we do have some updates for you. Um so um we were asked about the property on Goodwin with the the patio covers and the that go in the rideway. So um we reviewed where they were in their process and what still needs to be done. So they have we had started a code case on it the property and so they were given a list of everything that they need to do in what order and so to come in compliance. So, they've been sent that and they have a deadline to respond to that. Otherwise, they'll be going forward through the violation process. Um, so we are working diligently on that property to work still on getting him back working forward and getting in compliance. You're welcome. And also about the historic preservation conference, we have not seen anything posted about that yet, but as soon as we hear anything from the state, we will definitely let you know about it. And what who we can send or if we have any money for that. And and in regards to the the hotel on Whiskey Row, I'm sure you all have heard that it did get approved by council. So, they will be moving forward next for their water applications. So, um but that's all we have for you today.

Yes, Jim. I just have an additional comment that's not involved in this, but I uh have an opinion that I wanted to express. Uh so I'd like to make some comments about the broadband and associates evaluation of the action items that we had today. It's my opinion that the commission has done an outstanding job over the years reviewing and making recommendations on remodel and construction projects brought before us. I think our goal has always been to maintain his the history integrity of our historic downtown district. We have practical guidelines to assist us in this endeavor. In fact, the city ordinance 3744 approved in April 98 uh said that we are to use those master plan guidelines in our decision making. Occasionally we have reached out to Shipo uh for their input but I feel that decisions regarding outsourcing opinions should be made by the preservation commission in information related by the consultant as another layer of bureaucracy and in some cases controversy to decision making on the commission's part. And if there's a cost involved in this, which I suspect there may be, I don't feel that's a good use of our city money. Uh I think we can make those decisions and get help if we deem it necessary. Thanks, Mr. Mr. Chairman. I didn't know that my colleague would address this issue, but I I don't have a different opinion, but I just want to

thank the city for bringing broadband into our dialogue as subject matter experts. Uh Kaylee has not been with us. Kaylee is not trained in historical preservation. We have people that are subject matter experts and that includes Shipo as well cuz we have asked Shipo for advice. uh it would be we'd be remiss if we if we didn't. So I thank you for bringing in subject matter experts broadband in this particular aspect as well as the other as far as who determines whether they should bring that in. I think that's still up for grabs because I think that was talked about at a city council study session on October 28th.

So that's still up in the air. But I just want to thank you for bringing in subject matter experts to help us analyze these kinds of things. I view it no more so than if if Kaylee was presenting the information. Thank you.

All right. Thank you for the comments and and I do apologize. We're a little bit off topic from the the staff updates and general announcements. So, I do appreciate the comments and we can discuss this um further if if you'd like at a future um future meeting, but uh yeah, I don't want to stray too far off the uh off the agenda. Um, at this point, anybody else have anything? Ready?