Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

Good morning everybody. The I hereby call order the September 12th, 2025 public hearing for the city of Prescuit Preservation Commission. Present Rick Cry present. James Macccarver, yes. Diane Travis, yes. Rob Johnson here. Janelle is excused. And I'm Richard Sprain, acting or chairman. Need to change that.

Staff members present, Alex Brmlet, uh, future chairperson, Mike King, Jacob Luns, recording secretary, and mayor Phil Good. do it. Oh, and Tammy do it. Sorry.

I knew that. This is an open public meeting and is being uh recorded by the city. Proceedings are televised by representatives of the public media, local cable, andor radio stations, and may be rebroadcast. The number of commissioners present is five and require a majority vote for those to pass a motion. All parties wishing to be heard will be expected to state their name for the record. Speak loudly and close to the microphone and please turn off all your telephones. Well, do we have the minutes from the last one that we're supposed

um No, we didn't get them in in time, but you'll have them on your next packet the for the the last meeting, the special meeting, and then this meeting. And number three, I guess, unless you have a presentation we could do.

We have a presentation. Yes. So Tammy Duet, community planner at the city of Prescuit. So before you today is a request for a special use permit for a remodel adding 50% or more to the value of the existing structures relative to the premodel values. So, per the land development code, um because this is in a downtown business district, it does require a um cursory review by the Prescuit Preservation Commission to make sure it's still compatible with the remodel of the building. So, a special use permit is required by the land development code. Um it's located in the North Prescat National Register District. So, it's not in a local district. It isn't a national district, but it does require a courtesy review by this body before going to the planning and zoning commission and then then city council. So, there's four compatibility review criteria per the special use permit that we look at and these were looked at in your uh packet. The construction exterior building materials shall be high quality and longlasting. Structures shall demonstrate the general principles of good design, including but not limited to those dealing with form, mass, scale, height, texture, and color. Specific consideration shall be given to compatibility with other like structures in the vicinity where such structures are substantially in compliance with this land development code. The architectural design of structures and the materials and color shall be visually harmonious with the overall appearance, history and cultural heritage of downtown Prescuit. Generous use of architectural interest elements is encouraged and then all mechanical equipment shall be screened from view in accordance with the 6658E.

So this is the building we're looking at. It's a 130 Cortez Street. Um the the downstairs they did demo um the first level um prior to coming before this body but um we do have renderings of what they're proposing. Um the sec the second and third story are going to be converted to apartments and then they're go proposing a fourth story that'll be residents. They are maintaining the characteristics of the second and third floor um the architectural features. the Prescuit Hotel on the brick side will remain on it. So, here's some historical pro photos provided. Um, it was all brick back in the day, but you know, as many of the buildings we see in downtown Prescuit, it was stuckcoed over on the front and the north the south side. Here's another rendering of the building. as we can see uh with this part of Cortez Street with this building's gone now. Um this building's still there than this building. Um but that's the one that looks totally different than the other buildings. So here's a rendering of what they're proposing. So like I said, on the second and third stories, they're going to redo the windows. They're going to maintain the arches. Um, but the first floor, we're going to add um a new fabric awning to the first floor and then redo it to make it a little bit more a little bit more modern but still kind of in character. Install an elevator um to that will go up to the fourth floor and then the second third floor is converted to apartments and then the addition of the recess fourth floor for a new residence. And here's a side rendering to show what it'll look like on the the south the south elevation. Um they are not adding

to the back of the building. They're just putting up the fourth floor story. Then on the north elevation they're m they're going to re maintain the brick and like I said the prescuit hotel will be on there. They did add it to the renderings but they we did confirm that that will be on there. And then here's the rear. And they are providing eight parking spaces for the residential use in the back. Here's another uh view. Like I said, the Prescuit Hotel sign on the south side will remain. Then here's another view of the north side showing that they will maintain the stucco because, as we know, we can't take the stucco off the Prescuit brick. So, they're going to maintain and make it um more compatible with the area of the colors as such. Then here's another view looking um at it. As we can see on the the other building, we do have another fourstory here. So, it's not out of character to add the fourth story in this district. And it does meet the height requirements allowed in the downtown business district. Here's another rendering provided to kind of show how it's going to look like on top of the building. And that concludes my presentation. We do have a recommended action with a condition that the applicant shall submit exterior building materials materials for review and approval by the historic preservation specialist prior to building permit approval. We did send this to Shipo too because this is in the national district and I emailed you the comments that we got from Shipo. Um they did um compare it to the Secretary of the Interior standards for the treatment of historic properties for rehabilitation. This isn't they aren't demoing it. They're re rehabbing it and there's six criteria and this basically met the six criteria because they are maintaining the historical characteristics of the building, the

architectural details that are characteristic for this building and they're keeping the Prescuit Hotel um ghost sign which was very important to Shipo and adding the fourth story as you saw in the criteria they submitted. Um, rooftop additions are are are part of their criteria that are allowed. Um, but they it is set back too that also meets the shipo criteria. So, it's not as visible from the street view, which is what a lot of the design criteria for historic preservation. We're always looking at the street view of it to make sure it maintains its character. And that concludes my presentation. I'm free to answer any questions. So just a couple um just for information. So what is the fourth the four floors on the adjacent building? What is that fourth floor being utilized for today?

Equipment storage. Okay. And the equipment storage for this building will be where? Um but the it'll be the elevator shaft equipment room will be incorporated into the fourth story. So it's going to be screened. Okay. The the other thing does the state have any requirement on height? No, but our land development code does and this does meet the we are allowed 50 ft in the downtown business district and this meets the height requirement.

Thank you. I was looking on that thing from Shipo and at the roof additions for NPS and they discourage anything over the three stories and adding a fourth floor to an historic building like this even though it's I understand it is not on the register because of all the alterations over the years with it being fixed like this without the addition would it be a contender for no historic buildings still would not be because of the stucco or

um well also they now that they demoed the first story the the front there that any historic character but my understanding it wasn't eligible because of the alterations that have been done over the years but it is maintaining what's left of the historic character you know the arches and they're also in the four story as you can see they're also incorporating ated those arches over the windows to kind of maintain that historic character and those elements that are important for this that are relevant to this building.

And other than 1960s building a couple doors down, that's the only fourth floor on that entire street on that side and around. Is it none across the street? Um across the street, I don't think so. That's one, two. I think that's only three stories too. The old hotel there. Yeah. Yeah. I think but kind of stick out like a sore thumb because you can definitely going to be able to see that from the streets and even NPS says sort of I mean is not recommended for anything with floors under I think it said four stories or three stories

from the street view. If you're looking at it from the street view and looking up. I mean like if you look at this picture because it is recessed back even on the sides it's recessed back. It's not as visible. Um like so you aren't looking up at it where it's flush. It is set back so it isn't as visible from the street view and it'll blend in a little bit more with that being recessed back. Yeah, I think the rest of the building is pretty much an isore. So for most part I think this is going to be awesome. just have my reservations about the fourth edition on there

and the engineering is going to have to show that it can meet it, but they've been working on this for a few years. So, um they kind of have an idea of that this could this is going to be able to withstand the the extra weight of that four story. Any other questions?

So, I'd like to echo concerns about adding a a fourth floor. I think it even though it's not in the historic preservation district, I think that it sets a a bad precedent, uh it's close enough to the downtown area, and I think that the building uh the goal is to try to maintain the the character of our other 100-year-old buildings downtown. And uh I think this this should uh blend in with those other buildings appropriately. So I would uh have I would not be in favor of adding a fourth floor. Uh the stucco exterior is discouraged, but I think that uh uh it's that's the way the building has been in the recent past. And so I think uh maintaining that would wouldn't be out of character. Little bit of concern on the requirements for the street level window proportions. Not supposed to be over 75% of the entire opening. And I didn't get my ruler out to measure that. I think it's probably okay, but there's a lot of windows on the street level. And I would want I would suggest that they make sure that they stay within that uh suggestion. Also main concern is the the fourth floor. I think it should go.

Where's the 70%? That's for the courthouse plaza. Okay. This is not I don't this is not in the courthouse plaza. That's one of the problems. Our horrific pres preservation plan for this part of Prescuit has not been written yet. It's supposedly in progress, but I got a feel probably a year or two still away. I don't know if Cat's working on part of that. She is not working on it. Moody, she was

we had we had someone else working on updating historic preservation master plan. So, it is in the works still. Um that may be before you probably next year. Next year. But in the meantime, this is not in a local district. Correct. So we cannot apply any of our local criteria to this area of downtown but we can do shipo's historic although it's not a contributing buh I can't talk today contributing building to the street andor north prescuit correct correct it's not a contributor right so that kind of yeah

but it is maintaining if you look at you know the historical pictures of it. Um, this is maintaining a lot of the historical character from that time frame, the architectural characteristics of this building which are significant to this building. Um, so at least they're maintaining all that and redoing that all that. We'd love to be able to take the stucco off and maybe but we know that's not doable with the prescuit brick but they're maintaining the one wall that still has the brick which was a very important uh aspect from Shipo and the Prescuit Hotel being still on there even though it's not going to be hotel that's a historical character a historic portion of that building

and removing the Stuckco can actually harm the building greatly from what I understand too. Yes. So the brick won't it's will crumble up underneath it. It would collapse. Yes. So yeah, the stuckle has to stay. I understand that.

You know, my I'm aware that anything we say is just a suggestion because it's not in uh the down the the local historic district, but it needs to blend in with the other the character of the other buildings. And I think the guidelines that we use that apply to the historic district are reasonable to apply the suggestions on how they develop this building. And uh the fourth floor is it it will be visible from the street level. It's uh meets the height requirement although our recommendations are 48 ft but it's 50 and that's okay. But uh I I just feel like it needs to blend in and maintain the character of the rest of the courthouse plaza area.

But just as a reminder, this is not in a local district. We cannot apply those criteria to this project.

Okay, Diane Travis, I'm I I want to get my two cents in here. This is in a national district and I've got the national guidelines here. Generally a new addition should be subordinate to the historic building. A new addition should be compatible but differentiated enough so that it is not confused as historic or original in the building. So we don't want it to look exactly like the original building. And if you look at the criteria that was sent with the interpretation from Shipo that we do want those additions on the four stories set back like they did that does meet the the Shipo criteria for rooftops additions. So

and Adriana says that four stories it's a little bit arbitrary. Yeah.

It sets a bad precedent though. Do you mind? Thank you. Okay. Alex Braramlet, planning manager. Just want to touch on a few things real quick. Thanks for pointing that out, Miss Travis. Um, so we are leaning pretty heavily on the Shipo recommendation because we don't have a historic specialist on staff right now. Kaylee is out for some personal um time. And so, as Tammy mentioned, it's it's not the local district. So, we're not, you know, they're they're there. The local districts does have guidelines. you can kind of take them into consideration, but we can't apply them very specifically to this project. Um, Shipo does talk about the fourth story. It's, you know, kind of a theme. We don't really specifically address it. She says it seems minimal. The step back is in line and helps kind of reduce that impact, which was positive. Um, further, they do kind of keep in line with the existing second and third floor, but she noted that Tammy, can you go to the front visual, please?

Nope. Sorry.

She noted that it is important that Yeah, perfect. Thank you. on the fourth story, the arches are wider and not inset. So, it it creates kind of a cohesive thing, but it is setting it separate from the existing components of the building, and that was also positive. Um, and then the last thing I'll mention too with the first floor, the storefronts that over time in this area, it has really changed a lot from kind of the historic original component of it. And so that she really wasn't too concerned about the storefront given it's it's just changed so much over time and she focused more on the second third floor maintaining that and then the fourth story just keeping in kind but setting it apart. So just want to add that. Thank you. We don't know what the storefront what it looks like now underneath all that plywood and stuff. Right. But

there's there is no storefront. They they demoed. Yeah. Oh yeah. They had a demo permit and they took all that and they there was a lot of cool historic stuff inside. I think they're made they're trying to keep some of that stuff to reintegrate it into it. Um when they redo the bottom floor. We're just not sure what the bottom floor use will be. It might be retail or or something similar to that, but they didn't take any pictures for historic purposes. I I don't I don't know if they did. Okay. So, what do you want from us?

Well, we need a recommendation on this SUP. Um we are suggesting adding the condition that the applicant submit um exterior building materials for review and approval by when they get to that point. Diane Travis, I move to Is there anyone from the public here to speak? Just want to make sure. No. Oh, if I I'm not with the public, but I apologize I'm late. I'm the architect on the project. If there are any questions I can help with, I apologize I'm late. Come on up and state your name, please.

Sorry. Again, I apologize. My name is Colin Loved Doll. I'm with Michael Taylor Architects. So, if I can help with any questions,

we're glad somebody's finally doing something with the building. Oh, I think it's been an eyesore for years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're kind of sad that you couldn't keep the brick, but we understand it would Yeah. It would ruin the building in itself. I like that you're doing the windows back and for that part it's going to look fabulous. I believe um the storefronts were kind of eh um but our biggest concern I think is the fourth floor.

Okay. The brick, just so you know, we did do some uh a small area. You can see if you go by on the south side up at the first level of Corbals, we removed about two square feet of material just to confirm that um how it was attached. We did a larger sample on the back and it was Yeah, there's nails in that soft brick about every 8 in and it just starts pulling the brick right off the building. So, um we double checked at the front as well, just so you know. Um appreciate that.

And then as far as the penthouse goes, um or whatever term we want to use, the uh in looking at the neighboring properties, they were able to step it back a little bit farther. The challenge we've had in this situation is this building isn't as deep and so if we were to go uh farther back, we really start to restrict the usable area of that top floor. Um so yeah, so we have stepped it back as far as we could to create the angle that you see in this drawing to conceal it as much as possible. Can you bring a drawing up of the side of the building that shows the back part of it? Also, [Music]

what is that rear part behind the building that looks like it goes out? Sure. 50 100 ft. The intent is to uh so there'll be parking at ground level and then the intent is to have a patio level coming off of the second floor back there. Okay. So, parking will be underneath the patio area. Is that that's what that is? Yes, correct. Okay. Instead of a fourth hark, would they add something behind the building so it's not visible?

The u difficulty is we are required to provide three parking spots and that would probably remove or obviate the opportunity to do that. Um we have a pretty small area. We have a large uh SCES electrical power that needs to go in back as well. Um yeah, and currently they have room for eight parking spaces, which is highly encouraged.

Yeah. Not to be argumentative, but I don't think we can I don't when when you actually lay it out in there, um we've looked at doing tandem parking where you would park one in front of the other and we could maybe get eight there, but once we laid overlaid the uh power requirements and then an exit stair requirement for that second floor, um we we're our parking is a lot less. Plus, we need to provide an egress path from the back of the main floor for uh you know, people escaping in case there was a fire. And so that uh that that removes uh you know about a 40inch width for the whole depth of the building as well. So,

and so how many apartment units will be in that building? Three on each floor. Uh so six total, three on the second and three on the third. when uh on the penthouse area, the mechanical equipment that's would be on the roof is incorporated into that penthouse. It's not going to be projected above the correct

ceiling level. What we're intending to do is the stairway that serves as egress for the second, third, and then ultimately the fourth floor. Uh we would build a metal uh structure within the stairway containment itself above so that you still have clearance to use the stairs but above that we would provide uh support for the condensing units. The to conceal the condensing units uh for the other parts of the building. What we're trying to work out is putting them underneath that second floor uh deck area so that they're not obvious to the public. They're also away the noise is away from the users of the building as well. So that's what we're trying to do. We think we have the height to do that. Any other questions or comments? Can we get a motion then? Diane Travis. I move to approve SUP25-00001 with the recommendation that they sub the applicant submits exterior building materials for review and approval by the historic preservation specialist.

And that's with leaving the fourth floor. Yes. All in favor? Is there a second? Is there a second? I'm sorry. Rick Kimry, I second. All in favor? that please so we can make sure we're getting a record. So we have Diane one more time. Yes. One, two, three. Okay. A guess. Okay. Passes. 32. 32. 32. Okay. 32. So three to two against. Yeah. No. Three to 32. Four. I didn't see that. Three.

Yes. Okay. Motion carries. Three to two. Wait, is that Well, that's still Yeah. Right. Motion carries. Yep. And we do have some staff updates. And I'll turn over to Alex. Thank you, Alex Braramlet. So, um, we have Mr. Mike King here with us today. He was approved by the, um, subcommittee. He'll be on the council September 23rd session for the vote to to approve and then would be able to to join you all up here after that. So, um the session that happens after Mr. Mr. King will be there. So, we're excited to have him on board. Um the other update which I know we Sorry, you want to finish?

Okay. I'm going to switch topics. Is that okay? I just have a quick question. Is there a date set for the state historic society meeting next summer? Oh no, the state historic society meeting. Um, not familiar, but we'll become familiar and we'll update you. I don't know what's going to happen with those Shipo funds being cut. So, for mean the state conference, the state historic pro. Yeah, we haven't heard anything yet, but we'll reach out to Shipo to see if there's any updates.

We'll circle back with you. Um the other update is I know we mentioned to you all that the Plaza Hotel um they are going to be resubmitting and so um due to kind of timing we asked you all to bring your calendars and we would like to because the next um PPC meeting is October 10th and we again given we don't have our historic specialist we're going to be outsourcing it to a consultant to review. Um so we are asking for a special meeting to allow just the consultant to have a little bit more time and just to buffer it a little. So, um, we're not rushed. And anyway, so that's why we're asking for a special meeting if possible. I know I mentioned, um, the week of October 20th. Um, the 20th is a Monday, so I'll just throw out to see if maybe Monday, October 20th, works for anyone, Mr. TS. Yes,

it works for me. Is there anybody who can't do it? Mr. King, you good? Okay. Okay. Super. Um, and Rick, you gonna have to recuse yourself again? Okay. Okay. I have to recuse myself because I did work for the architect that's on the project and I have a little more familiarity with the project. Okay. Thank you. We appreciate that. Uh, but Mike will be here by then.

Mike will be here by then. Yeah. If we don't have an October 10th meeting, which we don't have anything queued up, so there won't be an October 10th meeting. We'll shoot for the 20th and Mr. King can join us at that time. Um, and we can check maybe let's get a feel for time that might work and then we'll have to check availability for the room. So, is there We'll just start with 9:00 a.m. Does 9:00 a.m. work for everyone? I'm good the whole day. Good all day. Okay, we'll start with 9. Do you have a way to pull up the calendar for this room? Make sure it's avail on on Mondays, but

I don't have access to the calendar for this room. We'll um we'll plan for 9 October 20th, Monday, 9:00 a.m. Um and then we'll follow up. We'll check to make sure it's available and then we'll circle back with you and provide that information. So, that was all I had. Thank you. I do have a question about something else though on um for HP23009 for the house on Goodwin. He was supposed to have changed the front fence on that house and he was supposed to come back to was been in Kaye at the time to do it and last time I drove by it has not been touched. Has there been any

2309 you said? Was that with the pergolas? That was for the pergolas and for the fence. The fence. Okay. I have some information on that. So So if I live right around the corner from there. So he, my recollection was he was supposed to put uh wood 2x6 or whatever three on one section of it, which he did on the alley and um and it we were supposed to come back or Kaylee was going to come back and look at it to see that that had been done. So that's where it stands right now.

Well, we'll verify that. Um there was some other things they had to do with that property, too. So we'll look into that. So, we'll circle up and follow the the conference, see if we can find some more info for you. We'll confirm the date for the special meeting date and time. Um, and then we'll we'll we'll check in on that because we'll have to do some research. Any other updates? That was it. Meetings adjourned.