Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

I call to order the May 8th, 2026 public hearing of the city of Prescuit Preservation Commission. Members present. Rick Emery, present. James Macccarver, Connie Canteling, here. New Lynn, here. Jeffrey Miller, present. Diane Travis, our vice chair here.

And I'm Richard Sprain, the soon to be outgoing chair. Potential or staff members present. Alex Brmlette, our planning manager. Tammy Jacob Lun, the community planner. Elaine Moore, the senior assistant city attorney. Medie Frederickson, our council leazison. And that was about it. This is an open public hearing and is being recorded by the city. The proceedings will the proceedings are being televised by representatives of the public media, local cable and/or stations and may be rebroadcast. The number of commissions present is seven. First time in a while. It will be require it will require a majority vote of those present to pass a motion. All parties wishing to be heard will be expected to state their name for the record, speak loudly, and to the microphone in front of me here, and please turn off all electric devices, electronic devices. Thank you. And before we start, we have some new members present. And to my left, Connie Cantel. Welcome.

Thank you. Jeff, Jeff or Jeffrey? Jeff's fine. Jeff Jeff Miller and New Lin down at the end down there. Welcome everybody. Thank you. And go off to a discussion for the approval of the minutes from the April 10th of 2026 meeting. Body read them. Anybody have any comments? Mr. Mr. Chair Diane Travis, I move to approve the April 10th, 2026 meeting minutes. We have a second. Second. All in favor say I.

I. Oppose. Motion carries. And do you want to do B or you want me to go ahead and start it? But before we get going, I know um we have we have new members. if if you all wouldn't mind everyone just as we get to know each other just saying a little bit about yourself before we kind of go go forward if that sounds good. Start down at the end down there.

Hi, my name is N Lynn. I'm the COO of Depiana LLC. Um let's see. I moved to Prescuit in 2000. So, I've been here for 25 years off and on. I did my graduate work at Twain University in architectural preservation. Worked on the um let's see, master plan for the city of New Orleans post Katrina. um moved back here in 2017 and have been involved in restoration preservation projects here in Prescuit since. Rick Kimmery, a small business owner of JRK Architecture Studio, licensed architect here in Prescuit. I've been in Prescuit area total of about eight years and uh on this board and a couple other ones for the city to give back to the community, give my professional advice.

Good morning, Diane Travis. Um almost lifetime resident of Prescuit. Uh I am a accountant um specializing in construction accounting. um worked for a contractor here in town for many years working on historic re rehabilitation projects uh most notably the Elks Theater. Uh also live in a historic home here in town that my husband's greatgrandparents built.

Rick Brain. I've been on for about seven, eight years now and I will be leaving the commission probably in September. We have a house being built out of state and we'll be relocating and has been a privilege being on this board and I plan on being on at least until it's time to go.

I'm Connie Caneli, former city council person and mayor prom. Uh, in my professional life up until a few years ago, I was the owner operator of Kezwick Construction and Design. I'm a licensed general contractor. uh did a lot of historic preservation in my very long career and uh been back to Prescuit for 20 years and absolutely love it. Love watching what's going on downtown and it's exciting to have such qualified people on this committee. Thank you.

Jim Macarver moved here in 1984. I'm an almost retired physician. I have a uh great history uh love of history. I volunteer at Charlotte Hall Museum working in the archives and do lots of oral history, get to talk to all these seniors who have wonderful stories about the Prescuit area. Uh and uh hopefully can spend more time doing this. Uh Jeff Miller, a friendly neighborhood architect, uh firm moved here about two and a half years ago. Um love Prescuit, love the climate. Excited to see how we can help preserve the the character of this great little town and help it grow.

Wonderful. Well, thank you all. We appreciate you being here. Uh my name is Alex Bramble. I'm the planning manager. And so, uh, yeah, if we want to move forward, we can go ahead and go on to, uh, chair and vice chair. If you'd like to lead that, Rick, I would. It'd be my honor to nominate Diane Travis as the next chair. Rick Kimrys that. And if you could all please vote now. And all in favor say I. I. I. I. I. Oppose. Motion carries. And time to switch seats.

Do we want to go for vice chair first and then we'll get that and then we can reorganize. Yeah. Do we have a nomination for vice chair? I'll make a nomination for Jim Macccarver for vice chair. All in favor? Sorry. Oh, we need a second first. Diane Travis, I second. And all in favor? I I I oppose. Wow. Congratulations, Jim.

So, we do magical chairs now. Oh, I can help rearrange. Got it.

Okay, Alex. Um, hi,

welcome. Uh on to item C, the presentation and discussion regarding the commission's member orientation. Thank you. Let me plug in and we'll get going. Okay. Well, good morning. As I mentioned, I'm Alex Bramarlet. Originally, Tammy was supposed to be here for this presentation kind of orientation, but she wasn't able to make it today. So, uh, we'll just be kind of running through your binders. They're rather large, but, um, we'll work through it. It's not too daunting. And then just some this presentation is in your packet at the beginning. And the main point of it is just a reference document so you have it when you need it. there's um further some snips of websites, but we have links for those. Um so, it's really just a good resource for you, but we have some things we want to touch on as we go through. Uh before we get there, in your binders, if you go to um the first tab, number one, that's just your schedule. So, the first page is the PPC schedule. We meet the first Friday of I'm sorry, the second Friday of every month. Um, if there's no items to go over, we'll let you know in advance. We don't meet unless there's something to go over, so we'll let you know. Um, the second sheet in there is just all of our boards and commission meeting schedules as just a quick reference point if you're interested. Council's on there, too. It's just what staff uses to manage our boards and commission. So, it's a reference document. If you go to the second tab, the first portion of that is the city code. Um that city code is for it's chapter 1-22. It's the prescuit preservation. These are your forming

documents in city code. Um so it's just again a good reference point. It was just updated a few months ago and that was brought to you in February um with just the update of chair vice chair things and and some absence language cleanup. So the second portion of that um tab is the land development code appendix F which is the Prescuit Preservation Commission bylaws. So, it's that's in our land development code, but attached for reference um for you all to have. If you have any questions on it, we're we're always here to go through it, but we wanted it to be in your packet so you have it for for reference. Moving on to the third tab. This should look familiar there. This is the board's commissions and committee handbook. The um clerk's office when they did the annual training, the open meeting law training, um this was covered. So again, it's just a reference point document for you to have. Um, similarly, the fourth tab is the city uh council rules of procedures. Again, this was gone over with you all during the open meeting, annual open meeting law training, but again, it's just we want to make sure you have everything you need moving forward. If you have questions on anything, we're we're here to help you. So, please let us know. The fifth tab is the whole historic preservation master plan. Um, it's from 1998. We'll learn more about it as we go along. Some I know are very familiar with it. Rick Spring, you do not have it in your plan cuz you already are covered, but everyone else should have the full master plan. Um, and so again, it's as we bring projects forward to you, we'll be letting you know like what what portion of the plan we're working in, what chapter, what district. So you'll have that information, but we wanted you to have the whole plan as as a reference document. So um the rest of the binder is ordinances, and I'll go into those as we kind of work through

the the orientation training. Um so we'll move on for now. So generally what we're just going to go over today is a little bit of a history for Prescuit. What is a CLG? It's a certified local government. That's what we are, but we'll go into that. We'll go over national versus local historic preservation districts. We'll compare the SOIS, which is the Secretary of Interior Standards, to the local guidelines. There's commonly referenced guidelines in the master plan. Um, again, we'll get back into the Secretary of Interior standards, how they're kind of applied, how we lean on them, but the differentiation between some of the documents. So, just in brief, in 1966, again, this is all detailed because we wanted it to be a reference point in your packet. So, we're not going to go through all of this in detail. I just want you to have a snapshot of information as a resource to you, but 1966 is when um the National Historic Preservation Act was established. really seeing as like a national trend of wanting to pre preserve um heritage and and preservation. So, it did um a couple of things. It conceived the National Historic Preservation Partnership, which is largely with federal, tribe, state, and us, the local government. It fostered a system in which historic places are preserved. It established the National Register of Historic Places, which is what we refer to it as today. It created the advisory council on historic preservation which we call you all which is the prescuit preservation commission and it also authorized matching grants now called historic preservation fund grants. So kind of throughout the 60s and the 70s the secretary standards were established. These are national standards that really um pivoted into the local guidelines. So when the local guidelines were established, they were

leaning and using the secretary of standards as as a guideline. It changed a lot throughout the years, but really importantly in 1977, that last portion, the seven sets of standards were reduced to four. And that's what we lean on right now for preservation, restoration, rehabilitation, and reconstruction, which we'll kind of go into a little bit in a moment. More context. So for Prescuit specifically in 1974 um was the Bashford House when they relocated it and that was a pretty big moment for Prescuit really leaning into wanting to preserve our our historic places downtown and and throughout the Prescat area. Um and so in 1974 uh the Heritage Foundation also organized an outgrowth for the above community action. It was a big kind of moment the reconstruction and relocation of it to the Charlotte Hall Museum. Um so in 1976 the city council um created by ordinances the overlay zoning which permitted owners including eligible properties in the local register as a townscape conservation district. That's what it was referred to as in 1976. We now call them um historic preservation district. So you'll see some reference documents that refer back to townscape conservation district. Those are just what the district names used to be called. Um so that's why we now call it the historic preservation district. Um so on the note of ordinances there is national districts and there also the local districts. What you all are doing is implementing the local districts. That's what we have jurisdiction over. So if someone is expanding on their property and they're only in a national district, we have some guidelines in our historic preservation master plan to give them. But we don't have the authority to say you have to go to PPC to get this reviewed. Um if it's in a local

district, the ordinance is established is what gives you all PPC the jurisdiction to um review and implement those design guidelines on exterior projects. So speaking of the ordinances, the rest of your binder is those ordinances for each local district. So we have it organized in um in order. So the the table of contents is in order of your your uh master plan. So the whole master plan encompasses a combo of local and national districts. It's not just local districts. So the um ordinance table contents all your ordinances are organized um per just the master plan chapters themselves. So again, when we bring a project forward, like you'll see a little bit later today, um we're giving you the ordinance information and the master plan information so you have all of that when when you move forward. So we are a CLG, which is again a certified local government. It's a joint federal, state, and local partnership, and it's created by federal law and administered by the federal and state offices. um is to help local governments again like us to preserve historic places. We have been a CLG since 1986 and um we largely that's administered through the state historic preservation office shipo. So we work closely with the state instead of the the federal government. So what responsibilities do we do? Again just kind of a quick snapshot but just a reference document for you to have. Um we maintain our historic preservation commission which is you all. We make sure that any um project again exterior we don't look at interior. Um we're just really focusing on the street facade and what that looks like. Any one of um a structure in the local district we

ensure that we're flagging it and bringing it to you all for um compliance with with the design guidelines. So there are some advantages. Um, we do have a lot of support from the state. They're really wonderful to work with. Um, and they're very excited about historic preservation. So, we lean on them a lot to help us kind of review projects or get some feedback and they give us a lot of great resources as well. They also have some grants that they um inform us of which we are eligible for since we're a CLG program. Um, even just this year they let us know there was some CLG grant money available. We applied for and we were awarded that money which we're using towards the uh historic preservation master plan update which we'll get to in a moment. Just some hit pictures um because that's why we're here. So this is um 1959. It's How's Hall, which was then the old city hall building, which is now going to be um a hotel, which you'll be seeing signage for as an application later on. This is just showing um the demolition and kind of what that process looked like, heavily documented and fun pictures. So again, this is just a picture on the top left corner of Howie's Hall. top right corner is when it was then turned into the um prescuit which is now the old city hall building. There's a couple other uses but uh and then the bottom photo is what you all should be familiar with and have seen before. This is the 2011 uh South Cortez Hotel that's going in. And again, we'll be seeing that signed package here in a little bit.

Alex, if I may, I don't see the ghost on that second picture. The photography is not very good. Can you open that up for next time? We'll add it in.

Wonderful. So, just again moving on couple couple photos. This is the the bottom right photo um is what this picture is now and it's the county jail. So, just showing how places change just giving historic representation. Here we have uh the cross street is Monizuma and Gurley. You can see how some of the structure has changed over the years. Some of the elements are maintained. Um, but just looking at the difference from 1903 to 2007. Which one's prettier? Here we have the cross street of Cortez and Union. It's a little hard to see the picture, but it's also still a cool picture. Maybe this is where the ghost is. I don't know. Um, he fled the scene. And so yeah, I was just looking at the difference between um what it used to look like and what it does today and where as these projects get brought forth, these are the components that you're looking at because it's all exterior changes um and that's what's impacting here. We have the corner of Cortez and Gurley just showing that it actually um on the upper left hand side was the original photo and then on the upper right hand side they did add a kind of an awning wood shingle which they then at some point removed and kind of brought it back to the prehistoric state with the awnings and and removed those wood shingles. So it's kind of just showing how it's progressed throughout the years. And so here is the um Bashford House that was relocated in 1974 as I mentioned before. It was brought over to Charlotte Hall and I have a picture of that in a moment. Um and then what is existing there today on the right hand side you can see is the Bosa Donuts. This is in action and it was a big day. They had a lot of people on the streets as they slowly work their way over moving the um house. And then on the

right hand side is the picture of it currently right now at the Charlotte Hall Museum. So again I mentioned there's national register districts versus local. We in our master plan have kind of both intertwined. Sometimes a property is can be in a national and a local district. Sometimes it can just be in a national, sometimes it can just be in a local. So sometimes they overlap each other but they don't have to. Um, you can have a local district with it not being a national district. They do a couple different things. The national district is national. Um, so we again don't have that regulatory authority. We have some guidelines that we use to implement it. Um, we lean on the state historic preservation office a lot for if we're reviewing a permit, we kind of check in with them to say, "Here's what we're working with. Do you have any comments?" But again, we can't require them to do a variety of different things because it's not local. in the local districts. That's what we are able to do. We have you all here to review and ensure that they are complying with the design guidelines. So, some of the different things and we talk about the secretary of interior standards and the local guidelines. We lean on if a project comes in in a local district, we're leaning on the local guidelines first. These are very old documents. Some of them are from the 80s and they're not as really well detailed as could be helpful to this day. So if there is an element that's not in there that we can address for that specific project, we do lean on the Secretary of Interior Standards to help kind of fill that gap for the national or the the local districts. Um but the national level is again looking like super high level. They're looking at uses. They're looking at interior and exterior whereas we are just looking at the exterior. our local um districts are overlaid of our zoning. So the zoning itself is going to regulate that use, the interior, the setbacks, things like that. Then the the

local um district kind of overlays that and it's kind of a blend of the two working together. So we printed a larger version of this and you're it's also online which I'll show you in a moment. Um, but these are just a snapshot of our national um, districts for you to have. And I'll show you the local here real quick. And then I'm going to show you our website. So that second page is just your um, your local district site too. And just want to show you our website real quick because there's a lot of great resources there. And I'm usually okay with navigating this, Adam, but it's it's not working. Oh. Oh, no. Hang on. It's black. Black's not good. No pressure.

Oh, thanks, Adam. Not sure why it's I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Probably not doing anything wrong.

I did take this off. Oh, was it using this? I was using this before, though. Just minimize this. I may be sending you a link to the website after this. that you

okay? There we go. Thanks, Adam. Okay, we're in. So, this is the city of Prescat website. Um, if you scroll down to view departments and then you go to us, planning and zoning, there's a historic preservation tab. So, a lot of what we've printed for you is also available here. Um, if you scroll, you can see towards the bottom is all of the different chapters for the historic preservation master plan that you have. And if you go up a little bit, um, here's the the two maps that we've printed for you are available here. So, if you can't see them or you really want to zoom in there, um, there's a link here which will pull up the PDF and you can zoom in clearer. So, if you have questions or need some help, we're happy to do that for you. And so the next um I want to show you this is also again linked on our website. It says Secretary

of Interior Standards. Um this is a page we is kind of lean on a lot but it takes you to the whole website itself. And so in your actual presentation that we've printed for you is just screenshots of this web page. So you can have access to the actual site itself, but then again the reference document in the presentation is in there for you if you um if you need that too. So um I'm going to pivot. Okay. So okay. All right. So that's uh where the maps live along with other information. And so here again reference document. We don't need to read all of this. You'll see a lot of this in our staff reports. We lean on um again depending on where it's located is going to determine what kind of design guidelines we're using to to make that determination. So, uh this is just kind of a reference of a lot of language we're using, a lot of things that we're looking at and and different things of that nature. So, that's kind of the I can pause Alex. Just a question in the process. Um, where are we in the rewrite and review of the historic preservation guidelines? I know that we were going outside. Uh, are we have we done that yet?

We're It is still in the process. Um, staff over the last few years have been updating the plan itself, adding in new chapters. Um, but we are at a point where we're sending out an RSOQ to get a consultant on board to help us finish off that process. So we're hoping by the end of the next fiscal year um if not potentially a little bit after that. So in the next year year and a half we are hoping to have a new master plan that's uh completed since

and is the plan um for the city for your staff to give us the revised along with the original so that we can actually see I know you used to do the red strikethroughs. Could we get it in that form and is that the plan so we can see uh specifically what was changed?

You're talking with the update for the master plan. we'll yeah we'll be sure so that the documents itself I suppose maybe depending as we kind of start this process we're going to learn a lot about it but um if there's chapters that need really a big overhaul it it may make more sense to have a new version but otherwise we could do the underlying kind of strike through to understand what changes have happened and how how significant are those changes yeah thank you I think that's really important thanks

absolutely so those are kind of the the higher level. Like I said, we're looking at our guidelines. We're looking at the ordinances with each project that's brought forth. Again, if there are components from the ordinances or the design guidelines that aren't hitting what we need for the actual review, we're going to lean on the Secretary of Interior standards. And so, um, again, here is that web page I just showed you. It's going to go through a lot of different information. This is not regulatory in the sense that we're requiring it. It's just resources as we begin our review and can lean on um but not require. So, they're very helpful guidelines for us to fall back on and use as we work through some of these projects. Working through it's the same web page. Um but just a quick high level again those four standards that we're looking against is preservation, rehabilitation, restoration, and reconstruction. Um so just a quick plug that the preservation is um sustaining the existing form integrity and materials of the historic property. Rehabilitation is making um possible a compatible use for the property through repair alterations and additions while preserving those historic features. Restoration is depicting the form features and character of the property as it appeared at a particular period of time. And reconstruction is basically recreating it but a whole new building. Um so making it look as if it had before but it is a completely new building. And again reference document just so you have it's still part of that web page that um is part of our website. So technically feasible is the um consider the substitute materials only if the original materials are not technically feasible and compatible substitute materials shall be permitted only when the use of original materials

again is not feasible. We love resources and references. So here's just some more. Again this is in your binder as a full packet resource. Um just trying to help orient on the website a little bit. This table is helpful. Um it's a list of materials that are sometimes used as substitute substitutes for replacement of historic buildings and features. So, it kind of can help outline if you have certain existing materials, what that could um convert to or different substitutes instead of actually having the historic building feature material. And so, with historic preservation, um it's design, it's not black and white. There's a lot of elements that go into it. There's no oneizefits-all. That's not possible because it is so unique and it's so different from one site to another. So just keeping in mind that there is no quote silver bullet. Um there's no way that it's going to be exactly the same because what I see is meets something is different. So there has to be a layer of um some subjectivity while also making sure that we're complying consistently. And so allowing for the design to really come in but still meeting the criteria and our standards. So from national to local level we just have and I tried to print them. Um this is part of a presentation that's been done by previous historic preservationists um updating a few years back and so um I can't find the source document but I've reached out to Shipo to see because it's a little bit blurry but I've tried to print them as large as I can for you all. Um largely though I think the real meat of it is the pictures just trying to really on if you

look at the upper portions of the photos um they're going to do an addition. So if you look at the the photos down number one doing it in the back so it's not really taking over whereas showing photo number two at the the third one down it's it has an X because it's really a large portion it's a large addition. So trying to really minimize the impact, put the additions to the rear side of the property to try and kind of maintain that historic character is the overarching kind of goal and themes of what these are trying to help guide us do. We're just going to go through a bunch of fun pictures. Um again, I tried to print them as large as I can, but really the the pictures are kind of what helps largely. And then you can see the the check marks that these are all um good ways to add on and do different additions. Again, depending on what type of structure are you looking at, is it historic? Is it listed? Is you know, kind of there's a lot of variables that go in, but these are guidelines that kind of can help make that determination. And so here we see um kind of a lot more X's. So this is just trying again to visually depict what is best practice. The lower portions are kind of really large additions. They kind of take over the existing structure in the character. And so again really trying to just reduce that. If there are additions, how do we make that best fit in the um design guidelines? So the left hand side is things that are do good. The right hand side is um things that are discouraged. So if you do look at the left hand side, these are all buildings that have had additions done, but the additions have been um small in nature, not overtaking the character and implied in certain ways that just help it add to the property but not overtake

the property. Whereas on the right hand side, you can see there's a lot of kind of second story additions. Um, but they really have completely changed the way that the the structure looks. They're really big additions. Um, and so this just kind of like looking at the two different scenarios. when looking at additions on the upper um picture is talking about using materials that kind of match. But you can see from the first two stories that's the existing structure. As they added on, they've stepped it back to try and not really dominate that pedestrian experience. Again, we're at a local level just looking from the streetscape. So, we're not looking at the alley side or inside. We're just trying to minimize that impact from the the street side and some more pictures. Uh again, just trying to demonstrate when additions are done, how can we do that in different ways? Um there again, there's not one sizefits-all. There's a number of ways you can go about a project and still meet the intent, still meet the guidelines, and um make it a nice project. So, here is showing different ways that you can add on to an existing structure. Again, stepping it back, uh making it look a little bit different, but still compatible with You want to make sure if you have a historic building, like the picture on the upper right hand side, you have your historic building. you want to add on. You make it look kind of similar, but you're distinguishing that a little bit. You're stepping it. You're separating it so that it's like here's the historic portion and then here's my addition. And that for the orientation is um what we have for you today. Again, it's a lot of information, but we do try to make

sure as we bring projects forward to you, you know what portion of the master plan you're working with, what ordinance you're needing to lean on, and um obviously we're always here as staff to to help with that. So, there any um questions for me? No questions. Thank you, Alex. Uh let's move on and get to HP26-004. Uh request for approval of signage for new building at the AC Prescuit Hotel. All my stuff out of your way.

All right. Good morning, chair, vice chair, commissioners. Jacob Lun, community planner for the city of Prescuit. Today we will be reviewing HP26-004 uh signage for the AC Hotel Prescuit located at 2011 South Cortez Street. So as Alex kind of briefly touched on in her orientation, we know this is a historic site. How's Hall was originally constructed in 1876. It was demolished in 1959 for the construction of our old city hall building. and that as we all know has since been demolished for the construction of the new hotel. So the property is located within the courthouse local courthouse plaza local and national historic district. However, it is not a contributor to the district. Uh the property is zoned downtown business. Since it is located in the courthouse plaza, it is subject to Prescuit Preservation Commission approval per ordinance 3744, which was adopted on April 14th, 1998. Uh that ordinance was also amended June 26th, 2001 by ordinance 4119. And then this is a map kind of just showing its relation to the downtown area at the corner of Goodwin Street in Cortez. This is a site plan showing the location of the four proposed signs in the package that we're presenting today. So, as you can see, there's one sign on the northwest corner of the building uh along Goodwin Street and Cortez Street. They'll have a sign on the entrance to the building off of South Cortez Street and a wall plaque sign. And they'll also have one channel letter sign in the back. So, the signs that are being proposed, you do have two channel letter signs

that are approximately 19 1/2 square ft each. Uh, one double-faced illuminated Blaine sign, uh, which is approximately 56 1/2 square ft. That will be the sign that's located off of the building along the northwest corner of Goodwin Street and Cortez. Uh, one non-illuminated entrance plaque sign, roughly 3.88 square ft. Uh, the proposed channel letter signs will be white acrylic lettering with Risco Brightite anodized aluminum and GE tetra white LED lights with a 3000K color temperature. Uh, the proposed uh, blade sign will be a gray cabinet with acrylic surface and white vinyl lettering for each letter. Uh, that will also be white LED lights with 3000K color temperatures. And then the proposed wall plaque sign will be a gray background uh with stainless steel graphics for a total of 99.42 square ft of signage. Uh per the land development code, this is quite a bit under the total allowed signage for the building. I came up with roughly 204 square ft of signs would be allowed for this building. So in the future once they have future tenants, they also have room on the building for additional wall-mounted signs which would come back to you guys as well. So these are the channel letter signs that will be located at the front entrance and in the rear entrance. Um these are going to be white acrylic signs and roughly 19 1/2 square ft each. This is the blade sign in question. Uh with this sign, it is going to be approximately I think it was 50 54 square ft. Um however, it's going to have channel letters and it does project from the

building about 3 1/2 ft per our land development code. It is allowed to project uh up to 4 feet. So, it is under the 4 ft allowance and it will require a right-of-way permit with this as well. This is a graphic of the wall plaque sign that'll be installed approximately 3.88 square ft. It'll be located right under the channel lettering signs at the entrance to the building. So, as you're used to kind of seeing lately, we have been doing a third-party review with a lot of our projects. This one we also sent to Broadbent for an analysis and they determined that the signage is minimalist in design, complements the modern building and does not distract from the historic architecture of the district and is also compatible with the historic architecture of the district. Uh, one perpendicular sign is proposed for the northwest corner of the building and that sign complies with all of the guidelines in that section. Uh all of the lights that are going to be illuminated are 3000K LED color temperature. And then we have a section of our land development code for downtown business signage. So one perpendicular sign is permitted per building and it shall not exceed four linear feet in overhang. All signs shall count towards the maximum aggregated allowable total signage. Uh, one wall-mounted sign is permitted per business on each exterior wall of the building facing a street or containing a customer entrance. And the LDC doesn't specifically allow or disallow LED light fixtures. So, when LEDs are provided, uh, staff does verify that the color temperature is 3000K or less for dark sky compliance. And that brings us to the recommended

action. uh move to approve or deny HP26-00004. And that concludes my presentation. I'm available for questions and the applicant is also here. Thank you, Jacob. Do any commissioners have questions or comments for the applicant? I'm just curious, what's the AC stand for? members wanted to say thank you for your service and members of the committee.

I don't I don't think that microphone's on. Uh so uh AC is actually a Marriott branded concept. Um so it's tied to the Marriott brand. It's one of their newer brands. Uh AC I think stands for an individual's name. Uh his name was Antonio Cologne. He was the original founder of the brand. I'll sit here if there's any more questions.

Do we know how bright that blade sign is going to be? Uh, I know the color temperature was going to be 3000K or less. Um, which is standard like office lighting. It's pretty common. We've had a few other signs in the courthouse plaza within the last year that also used a similar 3000K color temperature. I know the fire and sword got approved for that uh last year.

Sorry. The color temperature and the brightness, the intensity of light um are are a little bit different. And the reason I asked my office literally looks right at that sign. Um and so it's going to be well going we just we just vacated because of the construction site. But the um is that a concern about like the brightness the intensity of that because the dark side compliant limits temperature but temperature is just the the color of the light. It's not the intensity of the light. Our LDC also limits uh glare and um light trespass. So, we will be making sure that there won't be any issues with the signs intensity at the time of permitting and inspections.

I want go ahead. Uh, thank you, Alex Bramble, planning manager. Just to kind of um orient a little bit, when projects are brought forth in local districts, they come through PPC first and then they still have to go get permits. So they have to go get through planning and zoning and anywhere like the right ofway encroachment they'll they'll work with public works. So this is the design portion. Once they get through that they move forward to permits where we're checking those elements. Also I I believe I looked at this sign myself and I believe this is partially shielded the way it looks as though the lights are recessed behind

stick out. Yeah. Yeah, but but that exterior coating isn't illuminated.

Thank you. Any other comments? Go ahead, Jim. Jim Macarver. So I I'm I want to picture the the signs the the channel signs is each each letter is illuminated uh separately. Is is that right?

That's correct. And uh on the historic preservation plan versus the land development codes, they say that the blade signs can't extend more than 30 in from the building. It's my understanding that the uh preservation master plan supersedes or trumps the land development code. My feeling was 30 in. Yeah, that could be a condition we put on there if that is in the master plan that would trump the LDC since it's by ordinance.

So, thank you, Alex Braramlet. We um in with the project being brought forth, we did check it with the ordinance. So if it was in the ordinance as a requirement um we made sure that that was part of the analysis and that is what the the third party consultant helped analyze as well. So um in the actual ordinance I don't believe they have the 30-in limitation in the ordinance. It could be something that they lean on in the master plan but that is a kind of supplemental document helping support the ordinance but not a a requirement. My understanding is the ordinance is pretty general. It just says that you're going to use the master plan. It doesn't go through all the specifics that the master plan does.

The ordinance itself does have the design guidelines and the criteria of which that we're analyzing against on each project. Do we have that in our new uh folder? Yeah. Doesn't the hotel St. Michael have a blade style sign that would be considered historic in this context? The Hotel St. Michael has a very similar sign.

Yeah. The other question I had was uh did you consider the use of neon signage? you know that right across the street is the big is the iconic Goldwater sign from that was discovered a few years ago. Uh that might be more historically significant. What are your thoughts?

Um so the question is regarding whether or not we considered using neon as as opposed to this. Um we did have a discussion about that. Um, we thought from a our perspective on maintenance, um, this sign would be easier to maintain, fewer, uh, bulbs going out and having issues, um, with lights that are no longer shining, and that's why we decided on this route. I

I don't think like in a modern like usually when we do a modern neon sign though, it's still an LED just expressed as a as a neon. something that could use the form of a neon if that was a if if maintenance is a consideration. There's other ways to to address that besides just abandoning the the form of it. You sound like an expert in this area. We probably aren't. I think that we're compatible and so that's what we were trying to get to. Don't leave yet. So, the ordinance does say the the perpendicular sign shall not extend more than 30 inches from the building. Would you be willing to amend your sign so it's only 30 in instead of um

36 or 40? Would would that mean that the St. Michael and the Hassaya signs are not compatible because this doesn't extend any farther than they do? Okay. Yeah. I don't know the exact limitation. Yeah, they extend well beyond 30 in. I'm sure they're grandfathered in. I bet you they're grandfathered in. They would be legal non-conforming signs. They've been there a long time. Yeah. I guess our perspective is is the analysis is that we comply. Um I think that our sign is that um it's consistent with aesthetically what we think looks best. So,

thank you. Do do we have a rendering of the sign?

Um, yeah, there was a sign rendering included in the presentation and I believe the height of the sign off of the finished grade also had something to do with the projection from the building uh as it pertains in in the LDC. Alex, you mentioned that in your presentation. And I think we're talking about grandfathering in sons that are historic and saying that this is not historic. And I'm trying to reconcile that.

Well, there there's a precedent. I think that would be like a cause, but normally when when we hit that, we have to go through some kind of variance process. Um, if we're over if the code says 30 inches and that's it and we're over 30 inches, it's not always a hard no, but we usually have to go get a a variance in approval through another um another process prior to I think that's where the code versus the ordinance would differentiate since the code says up to 4T. I don't know if there would be a variance process for that. It would be a complete change of the ordinance. So, thank you. How the uh Sorry, I can wait.

I think as as our commission that we're the we're the ones who would provide that waiver or allow them to do that.

If there's if there's no more dis discussion, I'll make a motion. Did you have a little more discussion? Anybody? No. Go ahead. Okay. I move that we approve HP26-004. Is there a second? I'll second. Everyone for I I I I I I Anyone against? Motion passes 6 to one.

Thank you. Thank you, Alex. Anything else?

Yeah, I just have some staff uh announcements. Uh we don't have a project to bring forth next month so far. Um if we haven't received anything by early next week, it's likely we won't have uh anything to bring forward. But I did send out the email yesterday or at some point this week. Um, the state historic preservation office is holding a design review training on Saturday, May 30th in Mesa. And so I just wanted that it's a commissioners are welcome to go. And so we wanted to just see if anyone would be interested and available to attend that training.

I'd be interested. I have to check my calendar, but I'd be interested. I can let you know. Okay. Because uh Oh, go ahead. I was just going to say I agree. Did they say is that going to be a Zoom meeting?

No, it's in person. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So the other thing we can do um is I know it was either last year, the year before we had um the CLG with the state kind of the coordinator come and give a presentation just again more kind of training for the secretary of interior standards. So I asked if she was available June 12th which would be the next meeting. So we don't have an item to go over. We can try and meet to do that or if you want to wait till we have an item. I'm kind of just trying to provide some opportunities for learning and training and additional resources for you all. Um, but we'll certainly follow your lead. Thank you. I would be willing to do it on the 12th if even if we didn't have any other things coming in front of us. I think that would be nice to applicants to not make them sit here and wait for our training first.

Okay. Uh, and it's not the same as the May 30th design review training. It's more the May 30th is design review focused and then this would be more of a general overview for secretary of interior standards, things of that nature that Shipbo is kind of looking at. So, they're doing different things. So, if you still can make it to the May 30th, it is free to attend. Um, so just let me know if you are interested and then I'll see if we can get Ariana here on June 12th and we will we'll keep you posted. That's all I have. Thank you, Alex. I just want to say thank you, Rick Spring, for your leaders leadership and service to the commission. Uh, Prescuit's historic character means a great deal to this community, and I believe this commission pays an plays an important part in helping preserve that sense of place while working through respectfully with property owners, applicants, staff, and the public. I appreciate the work of everyone on the commission and I look forward to continuing to work together in a thoughtful and professional way. Thank you everyone. Meeting adjourned.