Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

No. I hereby call this March 14th, 2025 public hearing of the city of Prescat Preservation Commission. Members present at this meeting are we have James Macccarver, we have Maryanne Suttle, we have um Diane Travers, Rob Johnson, Mike King, um our new vice, Richard Spring, and I am Michael Murko. Vice Rob Johnson. Oh, I thought I called her. You did? Okay. I'm not awake. Wake up there, you young lady. I have coffee. Good. Uh, this is an open public hearing and is being recorded by the city. The proceed proceedings are being televised by representative of the public media, local cable and/or radio stations and may also be rebroadcasted. The number of commissions u present commissioners is seven. I believe it will require the majority of the votes to pass a motion. All parties wishing to be heard will be expected to state their name for the record and please speak loudy loudly at the podium. Um, all parties wishing to be heard will be expected to state Oh, I'm sorry. I read that already. Please put all electronic vices mute. Thank you. We also have um staff members present. our historian. Um, Kaylee Nunees. George isn't here today. No, George retired. George retired. Oh my goodness. U Miss

Dit. Um, or Chel. Yeah, sorry. Chelsea Walton. Chelsea. Chelsea Walton. Um, our recording secretary, Jacob Blood. Um, who else? Connie, are you here? No, I don't see Connie. No, or the mayor. We don't have any. Yes. No council members present. So, we will proceed uh with the agenda. I believe our first um uh item would be approval of the Gez, it's both been so long. I've anybody have the Anybody have the date of our last meeting? Wow. Mr. Chairman, I would make a motion we approve the November 8th, 2024. Thank you. Prescuit Preservation Commission meeting minutes. Do I have a second on that? Diane Travis, I second the motion. Motion passed. All right. Um, we have HP25002 request for approval of a new canvas fabric with lettering on the existing awning. What? On an existing awning frame. Prescuit sweet treats. Downtown Courthouse Plaza location. Property owner present. Yes. Yes. Okay. Um Kayla, you want to take this? Yes. And go with it. Thank you. All right. Uh you do not need to speak yet. Okay. Yes. Uh so good morning, commissioners. Uh so today we have one

regular voting item. Um HP25-00002. So here's a picture of the storefront uh when it was part of the Sam Hill hardware company. Um, so it would be on that very right side there and a picture of the storefront presently. So, as you can see, they do already have a wall-mounted sign and an awning with um I think it says Whiskey Row Ice Cream on the balance. So, oh, here's an aerial map for clarification on the location. This is what they're proposing. So, they're just going to replace the fabric. Uh, it's going to be striped, just different colors. And the lettering will be roughly the same size um with historically compatible font reading Prescuit Sweets and Treats. And I reviewed it against chapter 8, the Courthouse Plaza District. And basically the couple points that relate to it. Uh all colors should be of neutral tones compatible with the building design and entire district and the use of c canvas or fabric awnings is encouraged at all locations. So the proposed awning will not negative will not negatively impact the historic status of the building nor the district as a whole. Recommended action. Move to approve HP 25-00002. And again, we do have the business owners here, uh, Kevin and Cindy Ray to answer any questions if you have them. Any discussion? Jim Mccar, I just had a couple questions

to you, Kaylee. Uh, the color seems sort of bright. Did you Uh, is that still fall in the neutral color? It does. I looked it up online. Um, it isn't it isn't a bright red. It's It's more muted. And let's see if I got Oh, he has the sample. We come prepared. So, let's just pull that out. The other question was uh uh size of the lettering on is there are there any rig uh suggestions on how big or small you're allowed to have that? Yeah. So I thought ahead on that being that I'm a planner as well. And I was like well technically per the current sign code with the wall-mounted sign they have they are at their maximum aotment. However, we considered a lettering on the valance grandfathered in. So, the agreement we reached is that the lettering the new lettering would not be larger than the current. So, therefore, it's not really it's not creating more of a distraction and there aren't any restrictions as far as having lettering on the awning and lettering on the front of the building. Well, there there are double dipping. Well, no. There's not there's nothing specifically in the code saying you can't have both, but what we have are uh square footage limits. So, it's based on the lineal feet of storefrontage, but again, we had a discussion. Hey, you got to keep it the same size as the existing text and we'll be okay. You have the color. And it's really not. It looks in my opinion nice cuz you have like the grumpy Sicilian has a more bright red

awning. And there's Yeah, Lifeways I believe has a purple one. I think it will be an upgrade. It will look nice. Yeah, I I like the color. Anything else? Well, do I have a motion on the floor or can I have a motion on the floor? Mr. Chair Diane Travis, I move to approve HP25-00002. Second. Mary Settle second. And all in favor? I I motion approved. Good luck, folks. It's a great location. And good ice cream. Good ice cream. Good. Can you do something with the smell from the outside? Because every time I walk by there, it's so like it draws me right in. So, especially when I have my grandkids, it's it's like a magnet. I was wonder. Uh, so we're actually Go you go ahead and go up to the podium. Yes. Uh, so my business partner and I state your name, sir. Caleb Chunglo and then my business partner. Um, we just took over uh Shade Beyond. I know you guys were very familiar with Wolf Gang and so this is our first meeting trying to get in here. It's been kind of hectic taking over of business, but we just wanted to introduce ourselves. Uh I know Dana or Dana and Wolf Gang worked really uh close with you guys, make sure that we keep the uh the historic, you know, look downtown. So we we strive to do the same and we just want to let you guys know that. We don't want to try and change anything and ruin that relationship. So we're working with we want to work really close with you guys just to let you know that. All right, great. So Wolf Gang finally got to retire. He did. Yes, he did. Yeah, we took over in May last year. Um, and then he stayed on until about November and officially retired. So, um, he used to do neon lighting. Are

you guys carrying that out? No, I don't think Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did lighting. Um, A&B does that. Yeah, we work closely with A&B on stuff like that. Um, but A&B does all like the stencils for us. So, we do all the graphics and stuff like that. But great. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. And you guys can leave unless you want to sit through. Motion has been passed. So, good luck. You're welcome to. Thank you. Thank you guys. All right. Without further ado, uh we can pull up the next presentation. So, I'm going to introduce Ariana Urban from the State Preservation Office. She is the CLG coordinator. Is that correct? Yeah, that's right. certified local government. So, she made the trek up this morning. Um, and she has a nice presentation prepared for you all today. And you can either you can come over here. Oh, that works. This has like if you want it. Ooh. What? It has this. But the thing is you have to really go wide. Okay. It's It's a little It takes getting used to. Okay. Whatever's more comfortable for you guys. I'm I've got about an hour of content planned. Um if that if that works out I've got about an hour of content planned if that works. Okay. Um I could talk for a very long time obviously. Uh this is my favorite thing in the whole world is doing this. So anyway, my uh chair, members of the commission, my name is Ariana Urban. I uh as Kaylee said, I am the certified local government coordinator and also the planner for the state historic preservation office. So, as a certified local government, I'm here to coordinate you guys today. Um, and I've just got some training uh for talking about design review. This is

something that we've wanted to do for for quite a while. And I have been so I just I'll just pander to you guys for a second. I have been so impressed by the way you guys have conducted yourselves and um been really thoughtful and intelligent and uh pragmatic about uh the whole um Whiskey Row Hotel situation. I've been like on that beat for what it's been like two years now. Um and have always just been like cheering for you guys at home on my computer when I watch your commission meetings. So, um hopefully I'll just be able to to give you guys a little bit of um a little bit more information and a little bit more reason why we do this. So, let's get started. And uh I think I I generally like to have these more as a little bit of a conversation, but since um we're kind of short on time and we're not really sort of in the round today, maybe uh save your questions for the end and then there'll be a couple times where I'll prompt you and then we can have discussion if that works. Okay. Okay. So, why do we do historic design review? I don't need to tell you guys this obviously to protect the integrity of historic resources. That's that is why we're here. We all know and love and uh understand why it's important to to save these things. Once they're gone, they're gone, of course. Um we al obviously we want to ensure any of those proposed changes are are compatible and respectful. Um we, you know, have to follow our uh we have to follow our preservation ordinance and and have a public process. um maintain consistency with our design guidelines and uh of course comply with the requirements of the ordinance. Um but why do we do historic design review training? And this is where it gets a little interesting. What what's important to me and what you guys deserve is to really

have the information and the professional expertise to be able to feel empowered and confident in in making your decisions and speaking up when there is a project that might, you know, be on the fence or on the line with some of its design elements and how it might affect. This sounds really loud to me. Is it normal to you guys? Okay. Okay. Is it a little loud? Okay. No. Okay, I'll uh I'll stick around here. Let me know if you can't hear me. Um, and you know, I I what's important to me as as the state is that you guys know exactly h have all the knowledge you need, have all the background you need, and really, you know, get trained in some of this professional expertise. There'll be some terms that I that I uh bring up to you today that I call preservation school terms that that literally I would only know because I have a master's degree in historic preservation and you know very few other people have that. So so I really want to be here to to help you guys with with any of the any of the um skills that you might need. And of course we want to stay up to date on on latest preservation best practices. That's what the the preservation brief 16 is that I put in front of you guys. Um chairs, we'll talk about it in a few minutes. So, I went I went back to I I always go back to the beginning when I get a training session ready. So, you know, we've got the land development code here. Um I'm going to bring this up on my computer as well because I can't see that far away. Um and uh you know you guys have very clearly defined roles and powers in your in your uh preservation ordinance which is great. Not not every commission does. Um of course we know we want to review applications to establish preserv uh new preservation districts and new landmarks. Um you know we've got those uh those projects which are sometimes easy and sometimes hard about reviewing

and approving potential changes, demolitions, things like that. Um, and you know, my favorite my favorite one of these is always perform other preservation functions as the city council may provide. So, sometimes I get commissioners or commissions that are that don't really know what their role is. And and I'm not saying that that is you guys here, but you know, you you really have you guys are are the experts of Prescuit. You are the public. You represent the public interest. And also, you know, you were seated because you have some knowledge and expertise in historic preservation. So, I encourage you to take advantage of that and use your voices. Um, Kaylee, of course, is absolutely wonderful. She is truly such a good She's so good at her job and she's so good to work with. Um, and you know, she has your best interests in mind as well. All right, let's see. So, more specifically, I went to the other part of the land development code and uh we're looking at um you know, more of your powers and duties. And this one I I exploded specifically because I wanted to I wanted to make sure that you guys know that the design criteria of the districts shall be used as a guideline for decisions. And that's a shall. I know I'm sure you've been over this at least once or twice in the past couple years, but you know, shall is very different than may be used or should be used. Um, this is this is not up for discussion. It's it is the law in Prescuit that these existing design guidelines will be used to review projects and I'm here to help you interpret them and figure out what the best way is to to apply them to these projects in the future. So, this is the other reason we do historic preservation design training. And uh this was this was a little phrase that our previous deputy shipo loved. He was an attorney, but I find it funny, so I like to use it, too. Um what what we

can get into and what some preservation commissions get get into a little bit hot water for is this idea of arbitrary and capricious decisionmaking which means in fact property owners feeling like this is not necessarily the truth but property owners feeling like the commission and the standards are not being applied equally to every single project. And you know, the worst thing that happens is when one property owner says, "Well, you know, the commission let my neighbor build a second story in my house, but they won't let me build a second story on my house." And, you know, we these things happen all the time. And it it is most often some kind of miscommunication or, you know, difference of situation. Maybe it was a different commission entirely that approved that that addition. So what we want to do in order to try and ameliorate as many of those, you know, fingerpoints as possible is to really understand the guidelines as best we can and apply them fairly, equally, evenly to all cases and all situations. And that's hard because at its heart, historic preservation is intrinsically there's always going to be a little bit of subjectivity to it. Historic preservation is is just as much of an art as it is as a science. And you know that the art comes into this is the example here. We know that this feels wrong, right? Like we we all look at this. Everyone in this room looked at this at this proposal. I was horrified. Kaylee was horrified. We were all horrified. And it like our because we're preservationists, we know in our gut that this is wrong. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't look good. We have this instinct that it's wrong. But to a property owner, we need to be able to explain why and not just because and that that explanation needs to be more than oo I don't like it, right? We need to be able to actually make bullet

points and come across with with clear reasons that are backed up in the historic preservation design guidelines about why this is wrong. And I pulled these from from your guidelines. One, you know, this is this is from the the whiskey row section specifically, right? One-story building shall be between 18 and 24 feet in height. Two story, you know, no building should be greater than 48 feet in height. D. We have all these actual bullet points from the design guidelines. And Kayle's preservation, I'm sorry, Kayle's pres presentation at the meeting where she, you know, went through each sing, you know, each design element and why and how it doesn't comply with the guidelines was masterful. I have her give it at our statewide trainings um because it was so good and she did such a good job. So this is this is really why we do preservation design training because we want to make sure that um that these standards are being applied consistently throughout across all projects. All right. And then this is this is kind of my preservation motto for 2024 and bringing into 2025. Right? There's a lot of misconceptions about historic preservation out there. We know that in here that's not the case. But there's a lot of misconceptions. We think preservation, people think preservation is just about taking a building and freezing it in a block of ice so it can never change. We never want anything to change. No one can paint their house any color they want. You know, like we are just looking for a freeze in time and that's it and it's going to look like this forever. And we know that in most situations that's not practical and it's not feasible. Change is one of those things that we can never stop, right? It's always coming. It's always going to march along. And instead of preservation as being the antagonists to change, um, like we are sometimes often seen as out there within the public, um, what we

really want to sort of reframe it as is not being against change, but being able to help manage it. So historic preservation is really a tool in one of the in toolbox of many planning tools we have to try and help manage that change to try and help guide it to try and help to sort of have those changes whether they're new construction, new development, new subdivisions to try to help any of those, you know, future land use building development changes to incorporate historic resources and be respectful and compatible with, excuse me, the the the parts of of the historic landscape that are already here. And so, you know, this is kind of a different way to think about it. We want to we want to come to the table. We want to think about being flexible and being accommodating without compromising the real important historic resources. So, you know, I'm we're not I I'm not here to tell you to, you know, throw throw all your principles out the window, but we just want to be able to to have those principles be incorporated into future changes. Um, and I don't need to tell you this, like Prescuit is the example that I literally use when I go all around the state of Arizona to do these trainings. You know, people want to come to Prescuit because of its authenticity, right? because of the fact that the buildings really are from the 19th century. Whiskey Row really is where you could go and see the cowboys, you know, have drinks back, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens of years ago. We we want to preserve the people come from all over the world to see that specifically, right? They don't want to come to Disneyland. They don't want to come to Tombstone because those places are not real. And Prescuit is and so those real elements, these real

historic places, this authenticity is is what is what gives its town its character. And one by one, as soon as we start, you know, losing building by building slowly, sometimes we think, oh, it's just one building. Oh, it's just one facade. But, you know, and we turn around in 50 years and it's gone. And I call I call it the Applebees effect, right? Every time we tear down a historic buildings to build an Applebees, it it little by little the Applebees's pile up and it just becomes after a while you turn around and your city is not recognizable. It's it's indistinguishable from any other city in America. And that's what we want to prevent because Arizona is so special and so diverse and Prescuit is such honestly a pivotal part of that. Okay. Oh, I did it on my computer. Sorry. Um, we'll just jump right in. When we are reviewing potential changes, these are the standards that we use. And all of these three are specifically stated in the historic preservation code. Um, all the way on the left are the Secretary of the Interior standards for for historic preservation. These are the federal guidelines that every single certified local government in the country uses. Um, in addition to local preservation design guidelines, which uh which you guys have two sets of, which are also explicitly stated in the code, uh, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Have you guys ever looked at this document? Yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Okay, good. Yeah, that's true. I hadn't heard of it before and I had to kind of go digging for it, but it's a it's long, but it's a fun read. I need to get a copy of that. They have they have the SOIS and the master plan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yesterday the uh from what I recall the the yesterday Today tomorrow is about mostly residential um and and I read through it and it was it was it's very nicely done and and you know it's of course from the '9s like so many of

these things are but still applicable. So we'll go through it. We'll start with the national guidelines. Um this is stuff that probably isn't going to be new to you and if you all look at me and are like we already know this just kind of give me a signal and I'll move on. But um I want to make sure that uh that everyone has has the background for all this information. So I always like to start with integrity with the seven aspects of integrity. This is um these are the h it's hard to explain these things. These are the qualities of historic character that buildings need to have in order to be considered good candidates for historic preservation. So some of them are a little more obvious than others. Obviously, you know, location. We want the buildings to hopefully be in the location that they were built back in 1920. Um, we want the materials to be the same. We want to see those the the, you know, the wood banisters and the the stone foundations. Design is the same way. We're thinking about architectural style. You know, it's we never want to see a craftsman home then turned into something from, you know, 1990. It it doesn't feel good. It doesn't look good. Um, setting is is similar. you know, has the landscape around it changed? Um, any sort of specific elements of craftsmanship that are really obvious? And then association and feeling. I call them the soft aspects, but but we think about that in a way that um would someone from 1920 be able to stand in front of this craftsman home and would they recognize it? And if if that is true, then we kind of we're we're we're more inclined to think the building often has enough integrity and it needs to to to be considered for preservation. So, I'll go through these quickly. Obviously, has the property been moved and how much does it matter? Um, you know, we do see examples of of relocated properties where where the new location is appropriate and, you know, a

little house that's going to be threatened to be demolished in in one part of a historic district, we can see it moved, you know, to the other edge of the district, but it it still maintains that association and it's necessary context in order to to be um to still be listed on the National Register or local register. design. Of course, you know, it sometimes it's not obvious like these two little pictures, but uh you know, the the original design intent of this house was a little side gabled roof and uh some owners at some point decided to do these like little nesting gables. Um and it's a pretty significant alteration. It might not catch your eye as you're driving down the street, but um but but it's it's just not what it was intended to be. Setting is an is an interesting one. This is uh the Benedicting Apartments and we can well hopefully I'll get to this example a little bit later but um on the left is before uh it was sold to a developer to build student apartments and you can see the gardens which are integral to to monastic events. Um and then you can see on the right what happened and uh you know it's a it's a consideration of how important is is the architectural setting to to the integrity of the building. materials is a is another good one. Um, this is this example is hard to tell. Um, but in this in this situation, the house on the left, the original house had its original steel casement windows. It uh its brick was still visible. Um, it had been painted over. We don't always want brick, original brick to be painted, but in this case, it had, and that's okay because you could still see the the original brick. Um, and it had a little glass block window on the on the right side. Um, and when this house was flipped, all of those things were obscured. Um, and this is an this is an interesting case because we actually sent this one to the keeper of the National Register in Washington DC, and we at Chipo thought that that the it

didn't that the integrity was gone. But, um, the folks at the park service didn't agree with us. They said, you know, it's still mostly fine and we they they neglected to to remove it from the National Register. So these things are always ongoing conversations. Um and sometimes we don't always agree. Workmanship is a big one of course you know any any sort of uh any sort of manifestation of real craftsmanship, real expertise in in detailing and masonry and woodworking. Um we want to make sure to preserve because those are the kinds of things that we all know we don't we don't we don't always get anymore. It's it's hard to find. Feeling is another one. um you know feeling and association. These are these have to do with um whether the building is still good at communicating itself, whether the building um you know still looks the same, whether it still presents its same, whether people can still use it in the same way. Um obviously this Sonor and Row House in Tucson on the left uh is is not is not the same as as how it was on the right and really sort of the feeling and its association are gone. Um so character I'm sorry integrity of a property you know it's we it's hard to quantify we don't always know how to to you know break down something like location and you know how how can we measure something like feeling and workmanship and this is how this is the best way we have to measure it. This is how we kind of quantify these things through character defining features. And these are the actual physical elements of the building that we can point to and put our finger on and say this is historic, this is historic, this is original, and this is not. Um, and so each building is going to have its own list of character defining features. And we actually do make these lists sometimes when we're looking at nominating buildings. um we will we will count up the number of character defining features and and if it doesn't

have enough then then it might not have the integrity that it needs to to um to be to be considered for preservation or or nomination to the national register perhaps. So this is just this is an example from uh sort of the preservation bible that we use a field guide to American houses. But the character defining features on this little tutor house you know we can point them out obviously you know the chimney stack the half timbering um we know that tutor style houses have very steep roofs perhaps um wood shingle roofs at that uh the rows of windows the size and shape and the opening of the windows is also important. Um, you know, the little the little gable above the front door, the the arched front door is another big one. And as soon as we start, you know, letting the propert letting the property owners as soon as the these little features start going, right, as soon as they square off the the front door opening, as soon as they remove the chimney, um as soon as they stuck over the half timbering or start filling in windows, little by little, the house loses its integrity to the point where, like I said, in 50 years, we turn around and we don't recognize the house anymore. So, um, this is a little example that I pulled from, uh, Zillow, my favorite activity. Um, and, uh, this this is this is listed right now. Um, and the little this is this is an English cottage style. So, what what do you guys see as as the major character defining features here? Yep. That's called a rolled eve. That's a preservation term. Anything else? Yeah. Exactly. Yep. The stone, the flag stones, the the wood elements on the front facade. What about the

chimney? That'd be a good one. Yes, definitely. And here's a little fun example. This was before this house got flipped. And do you guys have this? Can you see it on your iPads? Okay. So, I I know the some something like character defining features can come down to the details. Sometimes we have to look closely at them. But the big one that I see here and they did a pretty good job. This is not the most catastro catastrophic flip I've ever seen. Um the big the big difference, let's see if I can do this. The Oh, the big difference is the little windows. These were the original leaded glass diamond pane windows and they changed them into something different. Um, I'll give them credit for not putting in, you know, vinyl plastic windows. They they did something that would be compatible, but these didn't need to go. You know, they never do. So, that's this is my fun example for now. We'll skip through a couple of these. Um, this one I like. What about the Kasag Grand Food City? Do you guys see character defining features here? Yep. Huh? Oh, no. Just um also the Let's see. We've got the the neon sign that would we consider that a character defining feature. Um, also and the the whole sign sort of volume itself and this little band of horizontal windows here is very n early 1950s. Um, and this this building is in fact a contributor to the downtown Kasa Grand Historic District. Okay, this is another one I like to talk about. We don't always think about these things, but we think about integrity in terms of uh how many of its original character defining features we have left. We think about condition in terms of what shape those

are in. Right? So, it's easy to to look at a historic building that that has been abandoned or vacant and go that is in bad shape, right? Poor condition, but it still might actually have a lot of its character-defining features. They might, you know, the paint might be peeling. Um, you know, the the masonry might be failing, but it's still there. And and these are the kinds of things that are really hard to replicate. So, we think about buildings that we we can and we can have all four of these combinations. So, we can have buildings that are in good inte that have high integrity and are in good condition. Um, you know, those those are our favorites. Um, but it's possible to have a lot of integrity but be in really poor condition. This is the Buckhorn baths in Mesa. Um, I'll use some Mesa examples. I was the historic preservation officer. I was the Kaye of Mesa before I came to the to the city. So, I'm sorry, to the state. So I have I have a special um understanding of of sort of this whole municipal process and and have a lot of uh empathy for it. Um but you can see you know the original stucco is still there. The the windows, the window lint holes, the the vertical wood elements. These are all character-defining features that are failing but but they're still there. Um and it's possible to have a building that's in really nice condition but super poor integrity. This is the Portland building in downtown um Portland, Oregon. This was a masterpiece, a post one of the first postmodern masterpieces by Michael Graves. Um, who uh this building was listed on the National Register 10 years after it was built because it was considered so prominently to be such an important architectural piece of history. Um, but it uh it it wasn't functional. The the city of Portland who had occupied it said that, you know, it was there wasn't enough light. it was making people sick on the inside. And so they um they reskinned it. They literally took the entire they declatted the entire building and put up a glass facade. Um

and it looks it looks completely different and it was you know dually delisted from the National Register. Um even though even though it's fancy and is new and in great condition. Um and the last one, this poor little guy in Phoenix in downtown Phoenix, he does not have very good integrity. you know, the roof has been altered, stucco, the windows have been um removed, the porch is different. Uh but, you know, this is a little uh late 19th century house and uh it's been vacant and abandoned and unfortunately in poor condition and poor integrity. And these these are the most vulnerable buildings we vulnerable buildings that we see. Does this make sense? Good. Excellent. Yes. Good. Oh, okay. So, um, we've got we've got integrity. We know how to sort of, you know, quantify it with its character defining features. And now these are the Secretary of the Interior standards. These these are what you guys have been using in part to help um to help understand whether a a certificate of appropriateness should be approved or denied. Um, and these are I like to think of these as really common sense things, right? We know we want to preserve as many architectural features as possible while still providing a building for for its new use. Um we want to make sure we don't uh you know do anything to the building. Clean it improperly. You know don't powerw wash bricks or masonry. I'll just shout that from the rooftops and everyone here should too. Um and uh we always want to repair historic features rather than replace them if it's possible. And most importantly or most controversially um when we have new additions and new construction in historic districts uh it literally says here we want to provide compatible and respectful additions and new construction. Um and that that really is standard nine and 10. Um you

know are those new condition are those new additions reversible? Are they going to uh if a new owner in the future wants to remove that addition will it irreparably harm the building? So those are nine and 10 are the are the big ones. Um and we'll go through some examples here. So these standards are we think of them as applied pretty much across the board to rehabilitation at this point which is one of our four historic preservation treatments. Um, you know, rehabilitation we say is is a new use, a new compatible use for a historic building. And it can involve um some changes, right? It can involve ADA ramps. It can involve, you know, HVAC um changes. It can, you know, sometimes even uh involve new entrances and exits, but vacant buildings deteriorate five times faster than occupied ones. So the the urgency really is to get a vacant building occupied as quickly as possible. And if sometimes we need to, you know, make some changes in order for a building to be brought back into use and to be a participating member of the community again, rehabilitation allows us to do that. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. No, I I love it. So I'll go through some I'll go So these are we have we say we have 10 standards here. I'll go through the important ones. Um, like I said, we want a new use that requires minimal change to it to those character defining features, but still some This is the the Van Beerren Music Venue downtown. Uh, originally a car dealership. And so, of course, these garage doors, right, were converted to um to uh I'm blanking on the word. I'm so sorry. converted to storefronts. Um because you know a music venue doesn't need garage doors. Uh you know these these three these three windows remained the same but the entrance was actually moved to the side here. So it's this is

a great adaptive reuse project and this building you know was truly falling down. I didn't show you the middle picture but um now it's just such a popular spot to see a concert. Um, we want to preserve those character defining features. Like I tal like I like I mentioned, this is the Kasagrron City Hall. Um, it's the former Kasag Grand High School and you can pretty much look at it and tell that it's a high school, right? But they did need to, you know, do a new entry sequence to make sure that it's accessible to everyone. Um, and uh, the interiors have been completely rearranged except for the original auditorium which is now their council chambers. And if you're ever if you're ever in Kasak Grand, I highly encourage you to check them out. It's it's beautiful. Um, false sense of history is one that that is uh also a little bit hard to explain, but very appropriate here in Tucson to I'm sorry in Prescuit to to talk about. Um, and it's it's hard to explain, but we want to avoid creating a false sense of historical development. And this is this is where sort of the Disneyland effect comes in, right? We want our buildings to still be real. We want our buildings to still look like they did in in the 19th century. Um, and and we don't we don't want anything fake because that fakeness uh we don't want fake 19th century buildings. We want real 19th century buildings. And and when those fake buildings come in, they start to confuse visitors and they go, "Why does why does Whiskey Row feel different than it used to? Like, I don't remember this." Um, and it it it it starts to put people off and and I I I tend to I tend to drag on Tombstone a little bit. Um, I shouldn't necessarily. They are a national historic landmark and and one of our most important places in Arizona, but Tombstone is not real. The tombstone that we know today is not real. Um it it

had it, you know, up until the 1950s, all of those, you know, old western 19th century buildings were were still there. And um in the post-war era, like so many towns did, uh it was decided that they needed to modernize, right? And so they added, you know, po midcentury modern type facads to all of those original buildings and and it didn't look the same anymore. Um, and for, you know, for whatever reason, in the 1960s, the the the town was considered a national historic landmark, the highest level of importance that uh that that we have in America in terms of historic designation. And then in the 1970s, whoever was making decisions in the town said, "Actually, we want it to look old Western again." So, they put 1970s old western facades on top of those 1950s facads. Right? And so, you know, it it it starts becoming Disneyland. Like, we know that the real buildings are behind it, but if you walk up to this restaurant on the corner in Tombstone and you flack you knock on the siding, it looks like it's it's it looks like it's old mind stone masonry, but it's hollow. It's pressed tin. These are the kinds of things that confuse visitors, confuse preservationists. Um, I'll give you one last little example. If you see the second stories up on these buildings, they look a little squished, don't they? Not only are they false, not only are those just parapets with nothing behind them, but they are actually at three quarter scale, which is exactly what Walt Disney decided to do at his buildings on Main Street is is a threequarter scale to I don't know why, but um so so it's important to think about these things and you know this is why Tombstone does not have the authenticity. It doesn't have the character that Prescuit does.

I'll just say it out loud. Um, these are those character-defining features and, you know, when thinking about workmanship and details and materials, we want to make sure and keep as many of those things as possible. Of course, um, this is a little chapel in uh, downtown Scottsdale that was converted to um, city of Scottsdale offices. This was the planning department in the in the early 2000s, but they decided to keep this little glass block cross and the bell tower itself. Um, and this cool bricks surround. And these are all the things that that really kind of lend uh a visitor to notice that the building is is in fact historic and and cool, right? Everyone that walks into this office says, "Whoa, this is not your typical office building." Um, because it isn't, because it's historic. This is one of my favorite Florence examples. I always tell people to go to Florence instead of Tombstone. Um, and it is, uh, standard six is to, of course, repair deteriorated features and replace them in kind. And if you do need to to entirely rebuild them, we want to make sure to do it as close to the original as possible. So, this is the Silver King Hotel. It was a ruin, right? The entire parapet here was, you know, in crackles. It was falling down. Um, and, uh, they, the town scraped together the money. We I think they got a grant from us to to help rebuild it. And you'll notice the railing here, right? It's hard to see, of course, but it has this neat staggered pattern in uh the railing. And we have this picture, right? This is like as good as it gets in terms of historical documentation. Um and uh it was very clear that that this was what the railing was and that it needed to be reproduced, but of course it's too short. Um we need to uh abide by current codes. And so we were able to they were able to uh just stretch the railing up a little bit to make sure it it complied with the building code, but they um they replicated the pattern, the

very distinctive pattern. Um and not only that, but the original railing was wood, of course, and they did this one in metal. And that's okay because it's going to last longer. It's going to be safer. And of course, someone from the 1890s looking at this building, there's no question whether it would whether they would recognize it or not. It's It's a done deal. What was this? This is in Florence. Yeah. This is one of the first things you see uh coming into town in Florence from the Northwest. So, here's where we get into the weeds, right? Compatible and respectful additions and new construction. Um I could talk about this one for a while. I I actually might just go ahead and do it because it's so interesting. Um, this is the University of Washington. And this was these are pictures that I took myself uh when I was visiting a friend there. And on the left, I love this spotlight. On the left, you can see its original 1921 Gothic style library. It's, you know, just about as just about as grand and stylish and a temple of learning as you can get. Let me pull it up here on my computer, too. You can, you know, you see the character defining Gothic style features, right? The the pairs of windows, um the pattern in the windows, uh sort of the vertical elements, how important that is, the sort of the the arched windows down here on the bottom, um the steep pointed roof, all like just just peak academic Gothic style. But they needed an addition. And so in the 1960s, this is this is like a panorama. Uh uh I know it's the perspective is a little funky, but in the 1960s they needed an addition and that's what this is here in the center, right? But you can see how they kind of looked at the goth the original Gothic style and said, "Let's take some let's borrow some elements from that. Let's let's let's use these vertical vertical lines. Let's have these little pointies

at the top with with some lattice concrete lattice work to sort of evoke um the the window details here. Let's let's keep this arcade feature with the pointed with the pointed roofs at the bottom, but let's do it in the contemporary style which was you know that sort of we call this new formalism um at the time. It was popular for for um institutional buildings. So, do you do you guys kind of see how they borrowed but still made it sort of into its own style? Good. Okay. So, in the 1990s, maybe late 80s, early 90s, they needed another addition to the library. And that's what this is here over on the side. So once again they said we're going to do it in this you know sort of academic postmodern muted postmodern style but once again we're going to look back not only at the original Gothic building but we're going to look back at the 1960s building which is historic in and of itself now and again borrow some of those features. So here you see the paired windows and in the in the spandrels underneath the paired windows you can it's it's hard to see but there are some sort of um of those gothic lattice elements that that uh call back to the other two buildings. Um again you see the vertical pilasters here. You see the pointy roof here at the top with the circle window. So, this is this was honestly like I was I just like needed a second when I looked at this because I couldn't believe what a good uh what a good job the school did in in really uh understanding how to do a new addition compatible and respectful while still making it um very distinctive of course from the original construction. And this is what I mean by reversibility. Um this is just down the street from my office on the Capitol Mall. This is the 1937 state agricultural building. Beautiful building, you know, no question about whether it's historic,

should be preserved. And this is the 1957 edition on this side. Whoop. All right. This is the 1970s edition on that side. Um, I'm sorry, 50s edition on that side. It's uh it's definitely distinctive, but I would say compatible. you know, they copied or they sort of borrowed the brick construction, but made the window bands um different and certainly distinctive. No one no one's going to think that these two buildings were built at the same time. And they were connected by this little hyphen here, which could easily be undone if the state ever wanted to tear down this portion of the building, which they actually did. and before um before the the current sort of state recession that we're in this the the 50s edition was actually slated for demo. So would have been interesting to see what happened. Okay. So now let's go to the prescuit part of it. These are the so what I just talked about those are the sort of the common sense standards for buildings all over the country. But prescuit is obviously not uh similar to any prescuit is super unique. There's no like standard all over the country that is going to speak to the specific necessities of press kit. How am I doing on time? I literally haven't been looking. Okay, shoot. Um, okay. So, we'll go to the spec I'll I'll talk about a little bit more of the specific press kit guidelines. Okay, 20 more minutes. Yeah. Okay, that's totally fine. So, we look at the spe the press get specific standards. You guys are all experts on the Prescuit historic preservation master plan. I know that for a fact. Um, and these are the specific things that that you know were written in order to preserve the important elements of Prescuit, right? Site relationships, um, doors and windows, things like materials and open space, um, that might not necessarily apply to to buildings across the country

that that the federal guidelines can't address. So, we'll look at things like site relationships. Right here in East in the East Prescuit district, all these houses have the same setback on this side and they all have the same pattern of little outuildings or garages on this side in the alley. Um, in Hayyampa over here, you know, the fact that this house is oriented a little bit diagonally towards the winding road that goes through Hiampa. Um, and the sort of the fact that the driveway kind of makes a little fork instead of this house just being traditionally oriented to the street. These are the kind of site relationships we want to be sure to preserve. Of course, landscape streetscape is important. This is East Prescuit again. And the these are I'm just talking about the trees, you know, the the fact that these trees are very clearly planted in a uniform way to create a certain feeling that is still super super evident. Um, that one on the right got transposed wrong. It's actually Indian. Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. No, that's okay. Okay. So, my bad that I promise that's what Google Maps said, you guys. Um, but uh, you know, this this spiral approach to this to Indian Hill is super important to preserve. Obviously, that, you know, was a a design element that that is important to the historic integrity of the site. Form scale and massing. We all know about this one, right? This is this was sort of our refrain. over the past two years. Um, and I I have a commercial example here because obviously this little this I know this is sort of a I can't remember the name of the street. It's a side street off of downtown. And obviously these buildings are not exactly the same form scale and massing, but they go with each other. They're compatible and and my the the reason I wanted to show you this was because the street slopes downward here and so do the roof lines of the buildings, right? These are the kinds of things that historic architects were thinking about um that uh developers today often don't really care about. Um

and here's a residential example. All three of these little houses um are the same size, the same shape. They're obviously not the same exact house. They're not the same architectural style, but but they go together. Building materials. This is an obvious one. Um, like one of my one of my favorite things about Prescuit is is the local the local masonry you guys have here. Honestly, one of my favorite things about Prescuit is a lot of the new buildings. I remember it's like a Walgreens or something on the way into town that has a a aluvial stone facade um water table that you know someone in the planning department made a decision that that new new commercial buildings sometimes need to incorporate some of these features. Okay, so let's talk about a little bit of preservation brief 16. This is breaking news from from the National Park Service. This just came out at the end middle of last year. Um, and these preservation briefs are like uh laws from the National Park Service and not laws, these are these are uh guidance documents that we often follow. There's all kinds of uh different ones. Sometimes they're about uh how to survey a building or how to preserve your windows or uh if you if you just are have a have some time Google preservation briefs National Park Service and there's about 50 of them at this point but 16 was about um compatible materials and and replacing historic features. And in the past it has always been you replace every single material in kind no matter what. If the railing was wood and you're replacing it, it needs to be wood. If a cast iron uh fire escape needs replacing, you have to replace it in cast iron. It doesn't matter if cast iron is a not a good material to use anymore. They were staunch on this. And now that's not the case anymore. They have they have come to realize that that compatible materials are essential to doing preservation going forth in the future. That the railing that at the Silver King

Hotel in Florence, that was a good example. Um, and so they've actually this is this is this document is worth reading uh cover to cover. I promise you I I was enthralled by it. Um, and these are these are good guidelines now to start thinking about when you do have a a certificate certificate of appropriateness that comes off if someone does need to replace a chimney or or uh, you know, a piece of a storefront. We can start looking at compatible materials that look the same. Visually, it does not disturb the integrity of the building, but the materials themselves are going to be more durable, more practical, sometimes more affordable, um, than those original historic materials. So, noodle on this one. Um, please take a look at the at the at the brief. It's it's a good one. You know, obviously, we want to keep things like doors and doors and windows the same. Um, you know, if if this building didn't have its curved windows at the top with the cool layered uh window surrounds, it it wouldn't be the same building anymore. If someone squared off those windows, it it it just it it wouldn't have its integrity anymore. Open space. Duh. Obviously, we know about uh the most important open space in Prescuit, but also um this is over at the cemetery, right? fact that this cemetery is an open space and then the buildings there's a you know there's a wall and then the buildings start over here list the sort of rhythm to building open space uh you know different open space is is really important I'll skip that one so these are when we're thinking about design review these are our key principles right we we really want to think about whether it's appropriate whether it's compatible whether it's subordinate and uh respectful to to the to the original historic building or the historic context around it. We want to think about making a minimal impact on that historic context or whatever whatever historic resource might be potentially affected. And reversibility, we want to

try and think about, you know, is this um new porch on the front of the house is it might not be perfect, but is it going to be reversible in the future one day? So, let's talk about some examples. Um I will go through a couple of these and then I have a fun exercise for us at the end that really is uh prescuit specific. So let's go through a couple of these. This is um this is in Tucson. This is in one of the bio historic districts and you can see the building on the left is the original sonor and row house. These this is the architectural style that is like native to Tucson um and really so important for the residential bios. Um, and this is what had happened to it on the right. Like, it's almost impossible to see where the original building was. Oops, let me move my little mouse. It's almost impossible to see where the original building was. This is a totally incompatible change. Um, you know, this this this did get delisted from the National Register of Historic Places. You can see the the new volume in the back is too tall. Um, and it's just it's not it's not the same building anymore. Oh, this is a good one. Okay, this is also I I work a lot in Tucson, so a lot I I often um have some Tucson examples, so bear with me. But this is this is in one of the little residential historic districts. This is the original house. This is our Shipo photo from 1983. Um and this is how we found it one day. Um it had been not only gutted, but uh the the rear wall had been torn down. The uh roof was gone. And we we have a little joke like if the building you if you can see through the building to uh you know vegetation on the other side, it probably doesn't have enough integrity anymore. You know, of course there's always uh there's always exceptions, but this was one this was a choice that this flipper made. Um and

then this up here is was the final example. Um they obviously added a second story which was not cool. Uh totally incompatible. And the other big thing they chose to do was to remove this little port koscher uh on the side which was of course original design feature. So this house we we got on it right away and kicked it off the national register pretty much as soon as we could. Uh okay so these are those apartments that I was talking about the Benedicting apartments. You can see so clearly that you know the grounds of this monastery were important and uh carefully designed um and really really lent it a lot of its historic character and a lot of its historic context. Um of course we know you know monastic life you know part of it is walking contemplation around gardens um and that's what these had been used for since the 1920s when this building was built. And then this is what happened to it at the bottom. Um it has sort of a U of apartments around it. The apartments are by and large taller than most of the building. They the bell tower itself is still taller, but um the they did this without telling us also. And so um and this building is individually listed on the National Register of Historic Places. So what do you think happened? Do you think that Do you think that this building got delisted? Is this that did that? No, this was a developer. No, the these were not. Yeah, these are this was not they should. They don't, but they should. Um, do you guys think we kicked we uh we nixed this building? You think we should have? No. Some yeses, some nos. Okay. So, we didn't. We decided that this building

had enough architectural integrity, right? This mission style, looking at it standing on the street is breathtaking. And there is no other building like this, not only in Tucson, in the entire state of Arizona, that is really this um this specific and this stylistic. So, we made a tough call and we decided that uh you know the the landscaping itself was not enough to delist the building, but only because it is so architecturally significant. And and that's a judgment call, right? there's that little piece of subjectivity that comes in. Um, if is this building in the historic district? It it actually is considered in a historic district, but it's also listed individually, but was it did the change get made before uh all these requirements were in place? Was it before the historic plans were developed? Um, no. So, so, uh, we knew that that there was going to be some kind of development there, but, uh, they didn't check back in with us about it until after construction had start had been well well underway. So, that, you know, we always say like a surprise is is not great. We we want we want developers uh, and owners to to talk to us first so we can help develop plans that would be compatible and would be respectful. This really isn't. But because the building itself is just so has such a high architectural value and style, we made the tough call to not not pursue it for Dellisting. This is a tough one. This is a really tough one. Okay, here's another interesting one. uh just about actually just about a year ago in downtown Bisby uh there was a fire a super devastating fire and you can see uh it's these these two buildings right here this one and this

one now unfortunately look like this and the fire was the fire uh was pretty devastating and uh thankfully it didn't damage the adjacent buildings to it you can See this little pink guy right here is still there right over here. But these buildings now are only one-story buildings and we have some choices to make, right? Do we recommend that the city uh rebuilds the entire second story just as it is? We could do that, right? It's brick. It's not It wouldn't be that hard to just recreate the second stories of the buildings. Do we suggest that the city just tears them down? you know, the buildings are they they they obviously don't have the same form as as the original architect intended. Um, you know, it would it would it be um would it be inappropriate to to keep the buildings as they are? Uh, but the on the other hand, downtown Bisby doesn't have any infill. The whole sort of winding corridor of Main Street in Bisby has no modern buildings in it. And so, this would be the first infill on downtown Bisby. Or do we suggest that maybe they keep they they shore off the buildings, they make a nice, you know, compatible parapet at the one story. Keep them like that. It's tough. Do you guys have what like what would what would you guys recommend? Second rebuild the second story. Oh, there is no insurance. Yeah, it this was this was an electrical fire in the second story and it was a unpermanented apartment. Um and the women had no insurance. So even even more of a tough situation. That's all you know all these little things go into the factors, right? You know some we wouldn't think about insurance as a precient historic

preservation problem, but but it often is. actually yeah you guys want to rebuild the second story and as prescri okay yeah no and as prescatonians I very much understand you why you would say that right because you know you've a similar similar style of building and similar era of downtown and that may happen right that that is that would be a very valid um that would be a very valid scenario and suggestion And um the idea that I had, not saying that it's right or wrong, but the idea that I had was for them to actually uh keep the buildings as one story. Um they don't look bad as one-story buildings. They're obviously not. They don't have the integrity that they used to. But at the same time, I wanted them to do some interpretation and maybe perhaps do a a interpretive panel or plaque uh with with a with photographs of what the buildings, you know, historic buildings before the fire, after the fire, and talk about what happened. Um and really you know the other kind of another way to one way that we can look at this is that fires happen and uh change of course happens like I said and uh sometimes these changes become part of the historic life of the building. sometimes they become part of the historic narrative and sometimes we have to go with it and the best thing that we can do is is document it um and do some what we call interpretation which can be anything from you know make a video about the history of the buildings but I I'm old school in the way I love a plaque I love a bronze plaque on a building I always I yeah sorry to interrupt this is a great example there was a building on North Cortez that we did a workshop on a

conference. Yeah. And this kind of thing may have to happen with it because it's not financially feasible. Totally those upper stories and it's it's quite frankly dangerous. Yeah. So, we might have to make a judgment call where we bring it down. We give some honor to the original character. I can't hear you. Oh, sorry. So, we have a we have a building. I I just violated the rule. Like, I'm always telling people to come up to the microphone. Uh, North Cortez, the old Bucky O'Neal Hotel. Uh, we may have something like this happen just for the fact that it's not safe anymore. It's financially unfeasible probably to keep those up the at least upper story. Um, so we come to a compromise where we can bring it down. We can do an adaptive reuse and honor the original character. I'm not saying this is for sure happening, but I've had conversations with the owner. Um, and so I I really particularly love this example for that reason. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. No, that's Sorry to steal. No, I'm the guest here. Is there money available? Well, I mean, I think personally I think it should have two stories and make it look like it did originally. Is there money available to help the owners win a situation like this? I would uh I'm so sorry. Chair and Commissioner, thank you. I can't read your name. Um there is not. No. uh Arizona just doesn't have the sort of institutional um importance for things like historic preservation and uh you know us at the city level suffer for it. Um

so especially for private property owners there there is there is no money for that. Um they there is potential for an income tax credit. Uh and that's a program with the IRS. Uh but in terms of grant funding that there it doesn't exist. But this if if it's rebuilt some way then it's not and it's not uh can't be placed on the historic register. That's a good question. Can it I mean that that's something that we would want to talk with our colleagues at the park service about. uh you know if it is rebuilt exactly the same is there you know of course there's a reason to delist it because it's not original but does it if it looks exactly the same you know there's there's all these kinds of questions I I don't I don't know the answer to that I don't um and this is where like I said that that sort of subjectivity can can come in this is kind of where the art of preservation starts are the front facades stay the same yeah that's being preserved Yes. Yeah. And and we we don't know what the city has decided to do with this yet. Um we we gave them our recommendations and we you know we we talked to them about all three ideas. Uh but but they haven't decided. So we'll keep you [Music] posted. All right. So this is the last thing I wanted to talk about. And this uh I also pulled from the historic preservation master plan. And I loved the beginning of this section because it's literally called threats to the character of the district, right? Um, you know, this is this is what in 1997 uh uh the writers of the plan futurecasted forecasted for what could possibly happen in the future. And this was specifically uh downtown Prescuit. Increased pressure for larger commercial venues. Uh demolition to make way for larger commercial and business uses. Um

perhaps buildings that are proposed for taller than than the courthouse. uh acquisition of several, you know, ac several properties by the same developer to try and, you know, conglomerate lots to build bigger um potential projects that are just incompatible with the character in the history of the historic district, but are allowed under the current zoning code, which is all these things are ringing very true to you guys, are they not? Right? And I was shocked by this because this act this literally is a list that we could write today, you know, 30 almost 30 years later. So, I want I I came up with this brand new exercise for you guys because uh I was so disappointed by this iteration of the building. This is the one that came to you guys first. It what I said jump scare. Jump scare. Jump. Right. I I remember opening this file and going, "Oh, no." Um and then I remember opening Oops, pardon me. I remember opening this file and being so relieved because this is so much more presskit you guys than this. I don't need to tell you that right. Um and obviously right we can see why the iteration of this building does it just doesn't work. This is, you know, where we have that instinct that goes, "No, it's wrong." Right? And now we know exactly what standards, exactly what pieces and guidelines we can use, like you guys have always done to apply to this building to break it down about why it's why it's not compatible. Obviously, uh, it doesn't fit. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm going the wrong way. Obviously, it just doesn't fit. And this version of the building, we can we can tell the developer why it does why it is better. you know, it's obviously like not perfect, but it is so it is just wildly better. Um, and and you can really see the careful uh intention

behind a lot of, you know, the the brick, the pairs of windows, these little arches at the top, the even the cornice and the parapet, the sort of the colonade element down here. Then these openings are kind of evocative of the storefronts. Um, you know, this is even an awning that would have been on an old historic hotel. All these kinds of things are the testament to to the planning department here um in terms of working with the property owner, the developer to to develop to turn oops to turn this into this. And I was the reason that that really this horrified me so much is because I looked at it and I said, "Oh, that's the building from Kierland Commons in Scottsdale." That's what I said. It looked like downtown Phoenix. Exactly. And uh it took me about 60 seconds to come up with these exact other build. This is the one in Scottsdale that I thought of immediately. But then this is this is Farmingdale, New York. This is Starkville, Miss uh Missouri, Mississippi. This is Belmont, Pennsylvania. These are not Yeah. Like you can see how this style of building it just doesn't mean anything and it doesn't even try to blend into the other downtown buildings in Farmingdale, New York. I promise you. I found these right you guys right away. And it took me about another 60 seconds to find these buildings which are also, you know, of course not exactly the same but a little too similar to really think that these developers care. They don't, right? We know that that they're interested in getting their building up as quickly as possible with the materials as cheaply as possible. Um, and it just didn't stop. I is there I do I have another slide? No, I decided to stop here because it was just going to I needed it was going to get out of hand. But the fact that all these build I mean Florida, you know, New Jersey, South

Carolina, like it it's just this architectural manifestation that is happening all over the country. And this is this is part of the Applebees effect, right? As soon as these buildings start looking exactly the same all over the place, Charleston Charlotte, North Carolina doesn't become distinctive from Sacramento, California. And of course, we know both of those cities have very important and rich history. So, something to think about. Um, that's truly why I was so happy to see the redesign of the building. Um, this is huge. And, uh, you know, as much as I I really love the old city hall. Uh, it's historic in and of itself at this point. Um, and I hope that I hope the statue gets reinccorporated somehow. Good. Um, but you know, even the font on the letters on the side of the building, like salvage those if you can. You know, the Yeah, the the light fixtures, the those cool sconces. So, anyway, I could go on, but um you know, if it has to be replaced, which we know it does, I'm so glad that that something like this is coming. So, that's what I've got for you guys. Uh oops, again, wrong way. Um, thank you. I won't scald your eyes with these anymore. Thank you. Thank you so much um for listening. Thank you for participating, being so attentive. Thank you for volunteering your time, right? You guys don't get paid for this. Um and you know, just thank you for for caring so much about Prescuit and uh working so hard to protect its historic resources. So, I want to I want to express my gratitude and thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Very much. Thanks. Um please uh reach out. I can I'll give you all my business cards. Um, I can always come back and do another training on another topic if if you guys are, you know, encounter another sticky situation and you could use some training on, you know, literally whatever it is, I can I'm happy to come back. This is

literally my job. Um, and I just I love it so much. So, thank you all. Yeah. Thanks for the effort to get here. Of course, they made it safely. You risked life and limb. Okay, thank you again, Ariana. Um, I had one separate slide. I think it was staff updates. I want to talk to you guys about where the master plan update is. Update. So, the timeline has been pushed out. Um, but we've got it firm now. We've had a couple staff meetings with our ops team. Um right now we are doing editing. I am doing editing and there are a few chapters that I have to essentially I wouldn't say well there's one I have to write from scratch but um the deadline to finish the complete draft is the end of this year and then we will start taking it in sections uh to review uh starting January 2026. it'll be put in front of the commission. So with an overall completion date goal of spring 2026, of course, then we take it to council and it has to be adopted. So just just want to let you know that is underway. What you are seeing there is that's not um accessible to the public yet, but that will be our interface. Uh Cat Moody um really started this process and has set us up for success with our new website. Uh Rick has taken hundreds of photos for us that will be incorporated in the new master plan. So thank you Rick.

Um and on that same wavelength I wanted to recognize Mike King and Maryanne Subtles. Um, I just wanted to thank you for your contributions to this commission and um, that is all I have. Oh, I believe I know a couple of you are invested in that property off Mount Vernon on Goodwin Street. We have not forgotten about him. We have been in contact. Um, he's kind of at a juncture right now. uh where either you're going to see his project at the next preservation commission meeting or we're going to send him to our hearing officer. So um just wanted to update you on that and that is all I Yes, Mr. chairman, before you if I could being my last preservation meeting, uh not being reappointed, but uh I appreciate serving on this board. I think we did some dynamite business in keeping Prescuit Prescuit. Appreciate serving with each and every one of you. Always boards need new faces, new eyes. things evolve and for the time that I served here, we we made some great decisions and I was very happy to be part of it. Thank you, board. Amen. Mike, you'd think we both wrote the same speech, but that's where it is. Uh I was I'm honored and privileged to have served on this commission as well serving the commission serving the city of Prescuit and the citizenry as well

that come before us. Uh I learned a lot. I tried to contribute as much as we could. Like Maryanne said is uh the last couple three years have been the most exciting. We made a big difference in this community and I'm glad I got a chance to work with this each one of you. I great great respect. I wish you the best in the future and I wish our new members the same. Uh it's a great opportunity to do community service and God bless you all. Thank you. Yeah, you both will be missed greatly. Thank you very much. Yes, I agree. Anybody else have anything to say? Oh, I just wanted a a little brief update. Uh the general plan, I'm sure you've been following it. uh the notes in the paper and stuff. It's winding down and we're going to be it's going to the the the the council meeting was a little bit canankerous this week, but uh not much controversy and and I had the privilege of representing this commission and uh from a historic preservation aspect, I think the general plan looks pretty good. Uh, and uh, it'll be one more meeting. I think things will get approved and then it'll go to the voters this summer. Right. So, it's been it's been fun to be be involved in that. Good morning, commission. Chelsea Walton, community development director. Thank you, Mr. Macccarver, for that. Uh, yes, it goes to council on March 25th. This will be the second time that they've um really dug into it and reviewed it. Uh the hope is that if it does get approved at this uh council meeting, it'll be on the um the primary ballot in August. If for whatever reason it does not get approved and council has

additional changes or or other thoughts, then it will be pushed out to the general election in November, giving staff a little bit more time to incorporate whatever um additional changes council might have. So, we'll see on the 25th, but um yeah, it has been quite the two and a half year process. Um and thank you, Mr. Macccarver, for your for your service on that. Thank you. Any other comments? Well, then I'll adjourn this meeting.