City Council - Regular Meeting

We are recording. All right. This is the first time we've had the uh planning and zoning commission with the new council and the advisory committee plan is here too. So let's do some introductions. Randy Wesley, mayor. Jack Mosby, city council seat.

Aaron PL, city council, seat 2. area city council seat one Joey council president city council seat 4 and zoning James city attorney Chrisut director superintendent schools

advisory Christine, advisory committee chief. Wade Jaclyn, advisory committee, Bergkshire Hathway State. Bill Grimes, SCJ Alliance Consultant, City, City Clerk, Billy Andrew, city administrator, Mark Police, Robert Hall, city engineer, Jenny Holmes, citizen, Chrisman, parks director, Justin Souer, associate planner. John Manley, planning manager,

Bob Seal, community development director. Um, so thank you all for being able to make it tonight. Um, and uh, we've got our presentation from Urban 3 on the fiscal impact analysis. Um, and after she g she's going to go through the presentation in its entirety. Please take notes and make questions along the way. At the end, in approximately 45 minutes, uh, there will be that time for Q&A. um at which point uh I'll be kind of um ask you to raise your hands, ask your question. We'll be able we're want to type it into this, but I also might just uh reiterate it. And Maggie Lions with the advisory committee in PAHA has just arrived. Um and with that, I think we'll go ahead and turn it over uh to Heather with Urban Three.

Great. Good evening. Thanks, Bob. I am Heather Worthington with Urban Three and I'm going to share my screen. And you should be able to see our intro slide here. Everybody see that? Yep.

Great. Well, thanks for having us here this evening. We've really enjoyed working with your staff over the last several months. I'm going to do a quick intro of myself so that you know who you're talking to this evening. Uh I am Heather Worthington, principal and COO with Urban 3. Uh I was actually uh born in Lancing, Michigan, and grew up in Lancing where my dad worked for the city of Lancing. And my dad was actually born, excuse me, in Idaho. And oh uh and so uh as a kid, I really enjoyed um obviously Schoolhouse Rock and my mom and dad's world book encyclopedia and my globe. Uh but to this this quote really kind of drives our work here at Urban 3. We believe that knowledge is power. And so when you bring the data, you can do some amazing things with that. In my career, I've worked in um four different local government jurisdictions as a city manager and a county manager and lastly with the city of Minneapolis uh as their long-range planning director where I led the Minneapolis 2040 comp plan. So, I have a deep familiarity with what you're doing there in Postfalls with your comp plan. Um that was the third comp plan I led in my career. Uh and so I'm excited to talk with you this evening about what's happening in postfalls with the data. And let's start with uh asking this question. And this is a question we ask all of our clients. What is a city? Well, it's really shaped by the people who settled there, in your case, back in the 1870s when people came to this part of Idaho. Um, they were really interested in living in this place, but thinking about how they might shape it to their own needs. And of course, when they got there, it looked more like this. And as anybody knows uh you know a city while it's a fixed area of land it's not unlike this idea of how you think about land through the lens of land use economics or we like to say as a farmer right so farmers think about land uh in terms of the yield of the land. They think about uh

the inputs of water per acre or fertilizer per acre. They think about labor per acre, crops per acre. So what if we did the same thing for buildings in our cities? What if we thought the same way about the economics of land use? And this is an example I'm going to share from where I live. I live in St. Paul, Minnesota. Um, actually today I'm coming to you from Asheville, North Carolina, just to make things super confusing. Uh, Urban 3 is located in Asheville, North Carolina, but I live in the Twin Cities. And and we just did recently an analysis for both Ramsey County and Henipin County, which are the two largest counties in Minnesota. And we looked at these two properties. These are kind of just a a good primmer slide on what what does this mean land use economics? So, we were looking at how regulation can shape the productivity of land use. And you'll note that the Walmart on the left sits on about 19 acres, which is small for a big box store. Um, a lot of these types of uses throughout the US take more like 25 acres. Um, most of the land it sits on is devoted to parking though. And then you have the Osborne 370 building which is the former EcoAB headquarters in downtown St. Paul. Sits on about a half acre. So it's a relatively tall building. It's very productive in terms of taxes and jobs. So just put a pin in this and we're going to come back to it. But you can kind of understand now how land productivity can be measured. What we might be doing looks like scary math. I can assure you it's not this scary. One more analogy to drive home the point though. When we think about cars, we think about uh miles per tank. No, we're actually talking about miles per gallon. If we were talking about miles per tank, that Lariat would win every time. Instead, we're talking about miles per gallon. And that little hybrid from Ford is the more efficient vehicle. Again, so comparing miles per tank versus miles per gallon, it's the same idea of assessed value per uh versus your value

per acre. So, let me show you a couple of examples in map form. Uh, this is Bunkham County, North Carolina, where I'm sitting right now. This is the home of Urban 3 in Asheville. And you can see the Builtmore estate in purple. This is usually where I ask the audience, have you been to Builtmore? A lot of people have. Um, and it is the uh largest single family home in America, and it is the most valuable parcel in terms of sheer dollars in Bunkham County. But when we look at the model adjusted for value per acre, Builtmore kind of disappears. It's relatively unproductive parcel when you compare it from in the terms of land use to the downtown. And that's what's really popping up on the map here in Asheville is the downtown spike. That is downtown Asheville. You see a little bit of purple spike out toward Black Mountain to the east and then out toward Canton, west of Asheville. But Asheville is the primary economic driver in this part of North Carolina in western North Carolina. So, let's pop over to Post Falls. Um, beautiful area of the state and our little greetings from Idaho uh card. We do these for every presentation because these were a very popular tourism uh piece back in the probably 1950s and60s. We like to start with tax systems and how your tax is structured in Idaho. And in Idaho, you are primarily um reliant on property tax like like about a third of the country. Heavily reliable, he heavily relying, excuse me, on property tax. A little bit of sales, a little bit of income tax, um but primarily property. So, let's jump into how taxes work in Idaho. You go through this every year. You understand this, but I think this is always a a handy little primer for um for everybody to kind of refresh themselves on. In Idaho, you take your assessed value minus your homestead exemption. You get to that taxable value and you

multiply that by your levy rate. That gives you your tax bill. In Idaho, you have three classifications. You have commercial, residential, and residential homesteaded. And this is kind of what it looks like with that homestead exemption applied. It's a fairly significant exemption. Not every state has this. Uh this was really seen as a way to make property tax less regressive. So most states adopted this homestead exemption as a result of that discussion on a more national level, but not every state has this. What you do have in Idaho that's a little bit unusual is that you have these unique system of overlapping taxing districts. So depending on where you're at in the city, even by address by address, your tax bill could look different than your neighbors. And in your county, you have over 45 different taxing districts. And so this next slide is going to show generally what all Post Falls residents would anticipate seeing on their tax bill. This would be the anticipated breakdown, but it could vary by taxing district. Um, and City of Post Falls itself is getting about 38 cents of every tax dollar collected. And that's what we're mapping this evening. So just tethered to that. Your budget looks like this. You have revenues of about 41 million, expenditures slightly under that. Well done, y'all. And when we look at that flow of funds in a Seni chart, uh, or butterfly as some people call it, we can start to see those inflows and outflows in terms of what you're taking in in revenue and what you're what you're spending. So, we'll jump into your model here. We looked at your total assessed value for pay 2024 and then we extrapolated that to your value per acre. So, let's look at that in three dimensions. This is what postfalls looks like. Um, and we're going to zero in on a couple of very productive parcels in this model. So, let's look at those. We especially like to look at that what we call the lake

effect, which is not what that means where I'm from. Um, we, you know, lake effect is all about snow. In the case of land use economics, it's all about the value of parcels adjacent to lakes or other bodies of water. And you have a very strong lake effect around Lake Cordelane. Um you have very high value per acre on the lake and in fact you have a peak parcel here and this is that ranch golf and lake club and the lakeshore lodge which is pulling about $35 million in value. And if we dig into the property card for that one you can kind of see what it looks like on Zillow. And then we wanted to look at your total assessed value in the model. So, we looked at that and then we looked at your total assessed value per acre and then we wanted to put that into a three-dimensional view for you so that you can kind of see where those very productive parcels are popping up. Some of those are right on the river, some of them are kind of in that fringe around downtown. We also like to apply what we call a productivity ratio. So we use that as a kind of shorthand to describe how a specific geographical area is producing revenue for the city in comparison to the model as a whole. So let me walk you through the math here. It's fairly simple math. It's ratio math. Um and what we come up with when we look at the county uh versus the city uh is about 8.6 times the value in the city compared to the county as a whole. So let's kind of look at that in map form here. Um so Postfall's taxable value is about 8.6 times greater than the amount of area in the county that it takes up. And when we look at Celane, they're at about 13.6 times the value of the county in the area that they take up. Downtown Post Falls is about 12.9 times greater than the amount of county area it takes up, but it's only about 1 and a

half times greater than the amount of city area that it takes up. So, we would expect to see something six or better, six times or better here for an American city. So, Post Falls has a little bit of runway here. They have a little bit of space to to make some opportunity improvements in those areas. We also looked at taxable versus exempt land in the county as a whole and about 44% of your county is exempt. A lot of that is federal land. Uh and that's in the tan in this model. And then we looked at taxable versus exempt just for your city boundaries. And about 20% of your city is exempt. That's a very respectable number compared to most American cities. we would expect to see something in I would say the 15 to 25% uh range for a typical American city. Capital cities are extremely high because of the level of state-owned assets within those cities. So my city of St. Paul, Minnesota is 44% tax exempt. And then we look at taxable versus exempt just in your downtown just to get a sense of kind of what's really producing for you in the most productive part of your model. So again, your downtown is the most productive area. And how much of that is exempt? You've got a couple of exempt users like Boys and Girls Club, the couple of schools, and City Hall in the downtown, but relatively small amount of tax exempt. Then we like to dig into land use types. So let me start this chapter by kind of explaining what we're talking about here. So when we get into taxable value per acre, this is example we like to use just to explain kind of what's happening here. If you take a typical big box store, this one is sitting on uh just under 30 or just just under 21, excuse me, just under 22 acres. There we go. And if we if we look at the current value, it's pulling about a million dollar in value per acre. If we add some land to that, let's say we add 11 acres for parking, we pop that up

to 33 acres. We look at a dilution of value down to about $700,000 per acre. But if we subtract 11 acres from the original 21.6, we end up with almost $2 million value. So I think what's nice about this is it just illustrates how parking can really ultimately dilute value on a parcel significantly. That's just something to think about. Uh we we like to look at Walmarts because across the nation, they are very consistent land users. They build the same types of buildings on almost the same footprint in every community in the nation. So they are very reliable sort of longitudinal data point in our models. And so we always start with the Walmart and in and in the case of Post Falls, your Walmarts are pulling just under a million dollar per acre, about $900,000 per acre. And you'll see that little that little data factoid pop up in the left hand uh of each screen because we want to kind of tether to that as we move through these different land use models that we did for you. So, we're going to start with residential. And, you know, communities are really where people sleep and have their families and their dogs, right? That is primarily a a very common land use in cities is residential land uses, right? And so, when we think about land uses, we're really thinking about this opticose model, which is really illustrating the idea of low density, gentle density, medium density, and high density. Kind of this missing middle that we talk about. You probably hear that all the time. Uh and so we start with single family. In the case of Post Falls, we are looking at a range of one and a half to about 2.4 million per acre for single family. For your missing middle residential, this is going to be duplex, forplex, cottage court. Um anywhere from about 1.9 up to 5.4 million per acre. Your multif family is pulling between two and just shy of 4 million an acre. And this is what your

rollup looks like. So your missing middle right now is the most productive land use in your residential category. And the peak parcels in Post Falls are these three. We've got the 371 lofts with the gold and then the silver for the condos at River's Edge Marina and the Riverfront single family home at 10.7 million per acre. So that's what your s your your peak parcels in your residential chapter look like. You might be wondering why 371 Lofts is so much more productive. So, let's dig into that a little bit. The story here really is what I mentioned earlier. It's really about parking. Um, 371 Lofts uh only uses about 10% of their site for parking. Relatively small number of spaces and you've got that angled typology, but the Sawtooth Flats on the left is using about 36% of their site for parking. So, significant parking and look what it does to the value per acre for those parcels. So it has a significant economic impact as well. Um when we talk about land use productivity and let's kind of look at some of these let's go a little deeper with this idea of typology and how land is used. So one of the things that we like to do is look at different neighborhoods and compare them uh economically. And in this case we looked at the Cascade Court and the Travis Court neighborhoods. These are very different neighborhoods. Cascade Court is a little bit more of a open uh larger lot development and Travis Court is a smaller, more compact development on a grid pattern. The buildings are closer together and uh it is a more sort of walkable neighborhood. Uh and Cascade Court uh sits on is is pulling an average of about 370,000 per acre. Travis Court pulling about 340,000. And if we look at the number of parcels, Travis Court has almost three times the

number of parcels as Cascade. The parcel size is significantly different. It's twice in Cascade what it is in Travis. And the total value though is uh just like slightly less than three times the value per acre of the Cascade uh site, the Cascade neighborhood. And the value per acre is about 6 million compared to 2 million. So it's three times higher than Cascade Court. So that's a quick look at Cascade and Travis. So what if you did Travis in Cascade? What would happen there? Well, we would expect to see that 4.1 million that Cascade Court is producing right now in taxable value increase to about 12.8 million. So relatively small input with a really big difference. And so that's just something for you to think about. I think it's also a good reminder that growth and density can be very incremental and very gentle in terms of the type of future planning that you do to achieve your economic goals. And I also just wanted to show you this really quick too. There's always a lot of questions about what does multif family do to single family residential near it in terms of valuation. We asked this question in Sugarland, Texas. That's a community that's a little bit bigger than you. It's kind of you in maybe 10 to 15 years. And uh there was no discernable impact on property values for multif family adjacent to residential, single family, residential. Let's dig into your commercial sites a little bit. We're going to start with your mall. This is the Silver Lake Mall. It's pulling about 1.2 million per acre. Very typical mall in America is pulling right around um the lowest I've seen is 200,000. I've seen as high as 3.1 million. I'm going to show you that one. And one of the things about the malls generally is that like like most malls in the United States, they're only doing marginally better than your Walmart. Um the big game changer for a US mall right now is how they use all of that parking,

all those outlots and all of that empty parking. It's empty a lot of the time that's diluting the value of the mall itself. I want to show you an example in Minnesota. This is the the OG, the original gangster, right? This is South Mall in Edina. Edina uh the Dayton brothers built uh the Southdale Mall as a as a an alternative to downtown Minneapolis in the 1950s and Southdale has been there for a long time. Uh and just about 10 years ago, the owners of South started to develop the outlots. And so if we looked at the mall itself, it's pulling about 2.1 million without the development on the outlots, but with those parcels that have been developed since then, it's pulling 3.1 million. So that's how you activate your mall. Um and and every community in America is struggling with this right now. So you are not alone. Um we also looked at a couple of your large scale commercial sites. So again, these are big boxes. These are things like um your your strip malls, uh Ziggies, the Lowe's, and Cordelane. We looked at all of these. These are pulling anywhere from about 400,000 up to about 1.8 million. And then we looked at your smaller scale commercial. So, this is a very classic kind of auto related mall. Um, you got the nail place in there. You got the insurance guy. Um, this pulls about 2.4 million per acres. And then you've got your smaller scale commercial. So, these are things like, um, in this case, the White House Grill, the Bunker Bar. Um, these are pulling about 700,000 to right up to 2.6 million for the Bunker Bar. And this is the rollup for your commercial properties. So your small-cale commercial is actually the most potent within your model. It's the most productive and yet it's probably kind of seen as lesser than, right, in terms of people thinking about the value of the land use, but it's really really productive for you. And then we looked

at mixed use and again your Walmart average 900,000 per acre. The Atlas Mill is pulling is 5 million per acre. And then we've got the Prominade pulling 5.8 million. We've got the village at Riverstone. This is in Celane. It's only 17.2 million. And this is the rollup slide for this chapter looking at value per acre by building type. So here we're looking at um everything from residential lower density all the way up to mixed use higher density. Uh and that that parcel in Celane is the is kind of the winner. But the peak parcel in Post Falls is that one in the middle uh on the lower uh column or the lower row, excuse me. And when we look at it in bar chart form, this is what we're seeing again. We're seeing those those usual suspects that you all know and live with. Uh and and they are being very productive in terms of your uh tax revenue. We also want to kind of look at the tax model with some on street examples just to reconnect your brain to what we're talking about here. So we picked on a couple of parcels. We picked on the riverbend place, the bunker bar that I mentioned earlier, and is it Tobler Tobler Marina like the chocolate bar I think uh River's Edge and we also looked at Cordelane and Post Falls next to each other. So we wanted to look at sort of how is Cordelane producing uh visav Post Falls, Cordelane being a little bit more uh of a a larger city. And this is what we found the 371 lofts and of course the parkside condos in Celane which are extremely productive and you don't have anything that tall yet in Postf Falls. So that's a that's something uh that you may be interested in doing but that's very different than your typology right now in Post Falls. So those are the two comparisons of peak parcels. The one in Post Falls on the left and the one in Celina on the right.

We also looked at your zoning analysis since you had done your zoning map. We took that, we correlated it uh to the primary land uses in your model to try and uh make a pretty clear chart of what we think is happening. This was our attempt at taking your zoning and kind of uh creating a map that could show land uses that were relevant to that zoning and what their relative productivity was. And so that's what we did here with this map. Uh so again, this is an expression of your overall zoning. We looked at it by acres. So, this is land uses devoted to these categories in uh area on the tree map on the left. That's called a tree map or a tree chart. And then we looked at how land is broken down by specific uses and those correlate back to that zoning map. And then we also looked at the market value of those various uses. So, here we're trying to determine what is really producing revenue for you in terms of land use and where do you have some opportunities? Um, and you know, you've got small pieces of highdensity residential in this model and small pieces of medium density, the the green and the blue on the lower right. Uh, those are all areas where you have some opportunity. We also wanted to express market value in terms of area. So again, just showing you what the most valuable real estate or the most uh prominent use is within your market and that's low density residential. But as you can see uh that large percentage of your land area and market value are lowdensity residential uses. So you have a an opportunity here when you think about it through a market value lens. Uh your your highdensity residential is much more productive in terms of revenue generation and uh it could be it could be that you have that opportunity to increase medium and higher density uses within the community long term. You can just kind of see how this breaks.

And then just looking at value per acre by zone type. Again, here your your high density residential is your most valuable per acre and your public reserve is the lowest, but your industrial is just above that. And then your low density residential is is kind of in the middle of the pack here. So let's kind of take a look at some place comparisons and and look at these numbers side by side. In the 1960s, you deanexic some property in Post Falls and you kind of shrunk your jurisdictional boundaries and the result of that was that your population uh did sort of stagnate for a couple of years but then by the 1980s you were growing again and um so in that rebound time uh the rest of the county got bigger, Celane got bigger and you were kind of faced in the late 70s with this kind of boom prospect. There was a lot of talk then and we found this spokesman review article from 1975. There's a lot of talk about um this part of Idaho really growing and of course Celane grew quite a bit in that time period as did Post Falls. And so we wanted to kind of compare um Post Falls and Celane just to understand within the county what's happening here. And so the side by side here is that you know Postfall's taxable value is about 8.6 six times greater than the amount of county area it takes up. And in Celane, it's about 13.6 times. The average value per acre in Post Falls is 1.1 million and in Celane 1.9 million. Not that not that too different really. Um you certainly can make up uh make up that space if you wish. And then we looked at a couple of specific areas. We looked at downtown Celane and downtown Post Falls and then the cities as a whole. Uh so that was our our quick little monopoly card review and just looking at acres total value and population for those

those areas. Let's jump into your fiscal review. The other part of this project was uh for us to do a pretty significant fiscal review of your books. So we were looking at your budget. We're looking at your annual comprehensive financial report. We're looking at things like your pavement income or pavement in uh condition index. We're looking at all kinds of different data from you. Um, we also wanted to look again at this butterfly to understand sort of where is money coming in and how is it flowing out. So, uh, we looked at a couple of enterprise funds that you have, including your capital projects, your general, and your enterprise. Now, your enterprise contains water, wastewater, and storm water. Transportation is funded through a separate account, and that's a transportation account. So, we're going to tackle those separately, those those two different buckets and then some of your capital as well. Let's start by just kind of doing uh table setting around what what constitutes an asset. Well, the Government Finance Officers Association will tell you that there's all kinds of things that are considered assets. They include computers, um things you own like trucks or snowplows or vans, and buildings that you own, right? They also will tell you that roads are an asset, but we um respectfully beg to differ with GFOA on that because you can't really pick up your roads and sell them to Cordelane. So, we think roads are really more of a liability for you long term. And some of your other things like pipes uh that carry storm water, sewer, and water can also be liabilities and your tanks. So when we think about life cycle cost, what we're talking about is how much do you have, how long will it last, and what will it cost to maintain and replace? And we're talking about the pipes, the roads, the water tanks, right? So, we like to ground our clients in this idea that if you kind of think about how you're repairing streets before they fail, uh it's likely that you can get a better return on

investment for that infrastructure that it will last longer, that it will be less expensive to fully reconstruct when you get to that point. And so if we know the revenues and we can apply those geospatially relevant costs, we can get a picture of that return on investment by subtracting costs against the revenues. And that's basically what we're doing here. So we're showing you that if you take on significant preventative maintenance, you know, you crack seal and seal coat and you do real pothole repair, um, you can really lower your preventative maintenance cost over time. Another way to look at it is thinking about it as a reactive versus a proactive approach for maintenance and ongoing uh inputs of cash and labor to maintain these these roads. And we're just talking about roads at this point. So in the first scenario where you're reacting to things, you're letting the pavement sort of get to the point where it's considered to be poor condition. We're thinking it's like a $15 million investment. But if you kind of stay in that proactive space and you're always doing those things to keep it in good condition, um you're looking at more like $12 million. So it's it's considerably different. And remember that 175 of your road miles out of 197 center line miles is considered very good right now. So the opportunity you have is to do that preventative maintenance and ensure that those roads stay in as good a condition as they can as long as they can. Another way to look at is through life cycle cost lens. So if we look at the average mile of collector road in Post Falls, that initial construction cost is right around 1.3 million, but you have to maintain it and that includes yearly maintenance costs, a minor rehab cost every 3 years, major rehab every 25. And then finally, we think it's a replacement of around every 50 years. Now, that's going to vary um from city

to city across the nation. Warmer places where it doesn't snow, the roads last a little longer, that kind of thing. So this is the cycle that we envision uh for postfall. So that initial um what we call inside that city financial planning window is about 1.41 million uh a year over that 20-year window. And then outside of that, we think it's about 4.65 million um outside of the financial planning window that you're already doing. In other words, about 71,000 per year uh and about 155,000 per year for those um for those roads. And this is just kind of an annualized look at it. So when you think of this, you know, you're here, right? We're right there. We're in the 2020s and you're not building very many new roads right now. You're really replacing those 1979 roads, that sort of peachcoled peak in the bar chart. And there's a wave of replacement that's going to happen and it's happening right now. But you also have that second rebuild cycle that's going to be um kind of right now, right happening right now. So you're about to spend you're spending about 12.6 million, but you're also going to move into that third rebuild. So the lesson here really is that your roads never go away. They're kind of forever. And so you have to think about how you're funding that asset or liability in this case long term. And in the case of postfalls, you've got about 19 square miles that you serve with roadways and with other infrastructure including your sewer pipes, your storm water, and your water pipes. And we like it's we think it's fun just to say how far could you go on those roads or in this case those storm water pipes. You can go to Celane. That's not that far. With your water, you can go to Albertton, Montana. And with your uh sewer, you can go to Drummond. And then with your miles, you can go your lane miles, you can go to

Ellison. So, actually, this looks pretty decent compared to a lot of cities. We mapped Gilbert, Arizona a couple years ago, and they could go all the way to New York City on their roads. Um, that's how much road liability they had.

We also like to just kind of look at key infrastructure and making sure that uh here I'm just emphasizing that um you're this is to maintain what you have. It's not for new development, right? And so when we think about water pipes, we're looking at um $7 million current spending with what we think is around 10 million needed. Again, $14 million versus 23 on your sewers and one versus six on your storm water. This is the rollup slide, transportation, water, sewer, and storm water. This is your annualized spending currently. This is what you're spending. We think what you may want to consider spending on the right and just kind of looking at that as an opportunity area for maintaining this infrastructure in the very good condition that it's maintained in currently. You have a plan for uh continual fee adjustments to support your year enterprise fees and that's your water, storm water, and sewer. Your transportation does not have a utility attached to it. Uh and that's something we we would ask you to consider doing is thinking about that 50 to 100year time horizon for your uh for your overall infrastructure. And then if we look at it on a per capita basis, we're really looking at an additional $6 uh for your water in particular. And if we look at return on investment, uh just wanting to again ground us in the idea that we looked at all these different documents and we did this analysis and came up with a round number of about 62 million annually that you need to spend on uh your existing infrastructure and then spatializing those costs out across the city based on the revenue per acre you are currently making for these land uses. Now, this model um is a green black model. It's not very not very

creative title for this. Uh but what we're looking at is the green portions of the map are your revenue and the red portions are the needed expenditures. And when we turn the model on its side, we can kind of start to see which parcels are producing enough revenue for supporting themselves and which are not. And so, uh, one of the things that we see pretty typically across the board in American cities is that single family uses do not support their service delivery needs in terms of the revenue they generate. And that is without uh without exception that we have seen that in every community that we've modeled. Your net position is about uh minus 36 million. And when we look at it again here, these black parcels that are popping up, these are the really productive parcels. Those are net positive per acre. And then you've got a bunch of net negative per acre in this model. Again, we see this everywhere that you you're not unique in this regard. We see a couple of them though where you have a really positive net position on those properties and those of course are your peak parcels that we talked about earlier and you have a net return on investment that's positive for some of those parcels and we think that's that's really good. That is something you can think of as your largest opportunity uh really is to increase that net return on investment with regard to intensity of land use going forward. An example of that would be here when we look at those net ROI per acre examples by building type. We see the prominade that mixeduse parcel as an example of the really net very productive type of land use. That lower density residential is underwater at about four uh four almost $5,000 per acre. your lower lower density commercial just under 2,000 and that medium density commercial is almost

$10,000 uh dollars underwater in terms of uh net ROI. Uh we thought it would be good to look at a couple of growth projections since you do anticipate growing uh over the next several decades. So we looked at a land use portfolio for these what we call projections that were based on your planning department uh generating these different parcels to look at. So this is a slide that explains what each scenario was. So we added commercial, we added residential dwelling units and then we reached a a DUA uh dwelling unit per acre model and then uh we looked here at the number of parcel acres and in each case the parcel acreage was 2 and a half thousand and a range of 2 and a half up to 6.3 dwelling units per acre. So that's the projection that we established for this chapter. We used our development evaluator tool. You'll have access to this once the analysis is complete and this is something you'll be able to plug numbers into and it will generate this kind of return on investment data for the city so that you can evaluate different development scenarios as developers come forward and want to um talk with you. This was a tool I wish I had when I was doing economic development. So that's why we created it. I said, "Boy, it would really be great if uh if my friends over in local government had this." So let's kind of take a look at this. We did scenario one and this we added 7.9 um million square ft of commercial and about 6,400 residential units. In scenario two about 10.4 million square ft of added commercial and about 10,000 residential units. Scenario 3 was 9.2 million and about 15,000 residential units. You can see we just have a break even there. Okay. And then scenario three star we added

because we wanted to get a net positive position on one of the scenarios. So net position for scen scenario three star is actually positive 5,000 and that's primarily due to our inclusion of a highly potent mixeduse parcel and that's this right here. So we basically replicated the prominade in this scenario and we net out just over $5,000 per acre on that. If we look at the rollup, these are the projected parcels. So, this is just the parcels we just looked at. And we net out about 5.3,000 per uh per acre on those. But if you look at the scenarios compared to the city as a whole, uh all of those are still net negative. And I think this really speaks to the challenge of getting to a net positive position in terms of compact development and density going forward. So, we're in the home stretch here. That's the good news. Um, so now what? Uh, well, we have a couple of main takeaways for you this evening. One is we really think you have an opportunity to kind of thicken up, as we like to say. You have, uh, finite land resources. We strongly recommend that you use them wisely going forward and think about how you can achieve an intensity of land use that will make the city economically sustainable long term. and we can help you decide what that's going to look like in terms of those building typologies. But one of the easiest things you can do is just build more compact single family when you build compact single family, right? And so that's a really simple thing that you can do. Um you can build and grow that Purple Mountain. Um your friends in Celane have done that fairly successfully. You definitely have the market to be able to do that. And so that's another opportunity area for you. We also really strongly urge our clients to really know costs and consequences,

right? And so when you build something like medium density commercial that's really auto oriented and heavily dependent on parking, you are diluting the value of that parcel to the city in terms of revenue generation. But when you build something mixed use like the prominade, you are really um increasing the city's revenue over time, making that parcel much more productive and using that land like a farmer would, right? Um inputting fewer chemicals per acre and getting more crops per acre. That's another thing we like to think of in terms of a city. A city again, a finite collection of land uses. So think of it as a portfolio, right? It's just like your retirement savings really. And occasionally, especially as we get older, we re-evaluate those retirement savings and we kind of ask ourselves, should I be in this risky category or should I move out of, you know, like AI stocks and into something that's a little safer? Um, the same is really true with your land use portfolio. So, think about how you can limit that financial risk and really grow those land assets to ensure long-term economic sustainability. And here you have great examples. Travis Court versus Cascade Court, the Riverr Rungated Community uh is another extremely productive uh land use within within your model and the rollup side here. You know, thinking about those land use portfolios that you've established, you know, it's not that you can't eat potato chips. I mean, my god, I don't think anybody wants to give up potato chips. So, we we love our chips, but we we also need to eat our broccoli, right? So, think about those infill opportunities and think about a little more broccoli and a few less potato chips. And then consider spatial consequences. Spreading out is really expensive. It really costs you money long term. Um, again, back to Cascade versus Travis Court. And look at how much more productive that Travis Court neighborhood is. And then finally, really look for examples of repro of very productive places and just

replicate them. Right? This is just a very very general anywhere United States slide, but there's really three different ways here to build 32 homes, right? The end result is you end up with 32 homes, but you can build them in a very different way. And I can tell you that the on the left there, that low density typology is very expensive to build. It takes a lot of infrastructure and that very compact high density takes relatively little infrastructure. And so those that's the difference in terms of your net return on investment. We also really appreciate our friend at uh Strongtowns, Chuck Marone. Strongly encourage you to read his book. And as always, we encourage you to do the math because um the math will guide you uh to making good decisions and datadriven decisions. That's my contact information. And I will turn off the presentation and I will stand for questions. It's open for questions from council PNZ advisory committee. Yeah, I think that uh and sorry really sorry Justin's gonna type in the question so we can keep that as a reference as a record. Um and you can speak up when you ask the question so that Heather can hear you too.

Oh man. Yeah. So in your modeling of of infrastructure longevity, uh is there a a factor calculated in for increased use of infrastructure and higher density neighborhoods? For example, a a neighborhood with 10 residences per acre is going to use a lot more car traffic than a a large lot single family. Is that calculated into your to your numbers? Yeah. Yeah. I'm assuming I'm assuming a road in in a on a culde-sac is going to last a lot longer than a road downtown.

Uh likely likely. Uh yes, roads. Yes. For other infrastructure, not really relevant. Usually pipes are sized. They're oversized, right? And so usually there's additional capacity within your underground infrastructure, your water sewer and um storm sewer. roads are are yes a little bit different but I would say the cost differential with uh say 8 units per acre versus four units per acre is probably negligible. I think if you were in a a very high sort of density and high commercial traffic situation that would be a differential that we would want to look at. I think from my years, and I got to defer to your city engineer on this, but my years of rebuilding city roads, and I did a lot of them over the years, um the most damaging traffic on those roads is heavy vehicles like garbage trucks, commercial vehicles like trucks. Um and so again, if it's primarily residential traffic, I would say the impact is relatively negligible. It's not that it's not that significant, but I think it just depends on the road where it's located and the kind of traffic it's carrying. And we could certainly factor those in. To answer your question, yes, we could factor those into the modeling. We didn't for this scenario.

Thank you. Chris,

just a question on the modeling. when we're talking about, you know, certain land being more productive than other land, we're looking at assessed values, tax assessed values. And in Idaho, our assessors aren't all that informed, I guess, would be the way I would put it, especially when it comes to commercial real estate. So, when we're looking at especially like at the Walmarts or at Lowe's, the assessed values on those are less than half of market value. And that's So, I'm wondering how much that plays into we start talking about, well, Walmart's only a million an acre. Yeah. Assessed value, market value, none.

We're looking at assessed value, though. So, it is apples to apples. We're looking at everyone's assessed values. Um, we're not looking at uh we do look at total market value, which is an assessment number that they base their assessment on. uh but that value per acre is assessed value. So we are looking at that really the biggest difference uh is the amount of parking and how parking is taxed. So parking tends to be a lower taxed uh item in terms of that portfolio of land uses and so parking does dilute the value of a parcel. The building itself may be worth X but the parking is worth much less than that. And so that's what's diluting the overall value. And and I just like to chime in in the sense that assess is what the taxes are based on. So we have to go that

right just as a apples to apples comparison. Right. We want to make sure we're we're talking about the same things. I can't speak to your assessor. Um but I would I would generally say that properties are assessed much lower than their market value generally, right? Whether they're residential or commercial. Mark, you had a question.

Yeah. So, I'm new here, so forgive me. Um but uh but I'm wondering did is there any discussion when we look at value about the impact on the expense side for different types of parcels and uh you know one building one acre with 50 apartment units versus one acre with snowbirds that come for four months out of the year are going to have a different drain on city services. Um, what types of city services are you talking about in particular? Water and sewer or are you talking about other services? All services, water, sewer, police, um, roads.

We didn't Yeah, we didn't look at public safety. Okay. Public safety data is very challenging to assign per parcel, right? Um, but we we can explore that. Uh we did look at water, sewer, storm water and roads and I think that is fairly consistent across those uses. Um so I can't answer your question about public safety but I can tell you that we did analyze sort of overall costs uh for infrastructure for all types of uses within your model. And sorry I'd seen um yours before.

Thank you. Yes. Earlier in your presentation, you mentioned that the adjacent multi- multif family developments have no impact on single family. Uh was that based on assessed value or is that based on market value? That's all assessed value. And that's that's a model that we did in Sugarland, Texas where that question came up. And so we were curious, well, is there an impact negative or positive? And there is zero impact in terms of valuation of multif family on surrounding single family owner occupied.

Nothing. And in fact some other examples would show us that there's actually a positive impact that it tends to skew values for single family slightly upward which is interesting.

I'm gonna try to frame this and bear with me. Um it seems like the models that are being advocated in this all include a type residential. So my first question is is that what you've seen in other cities of that like meet kind of like we are because even mixed use I mean that includes residential and then you're saying that commercial is actually diluting like that middle commercial is diluting the value. Um so is that what you're seeing and then also is there a solution that doesn't include high density residential in it, even if it also has commercial that would help meet your needs.

The the dilution of value is really tied to parking in particular. So that your commercial could be more productive if it had slightly less parking. Right? So I think that's the the takeaway in that chapter. I'm going to show screen again for those growth projections really quickly. I I think you asked an important question. I want to make sure that I answer this. So in the growth go ahead.

I was sorry I was just going to note so the growth projections that she's that we put together this was just kind of back of the napkin. Let's try and put together a bunch of bunch of numbers to cover these land use areas uh to give us some models. And John worked on it going from like okay if we just do kind of low density and uh

scenario one is building asis. So we keep doing everything we're doing about three to three and a half dwelling units per acre but in commercial a very typical pattern we've been doing it that's asis. Scenario two is adding in some missing middle. So I throttled the density up to the residential areas that are typical single family up to about four and a half dwelling units per acre um sometimes five along some corridors. I did throw in some multifamily where it was along a busy intersection that you more than likely wouldn't be the most pleasant for long-term single family residential values, but I did add some there. And then scenario three was okay, let's say we created some mixeduse thickened areas and um moved the density up a little bit more with some more six dwelling units per acre, keeping the multif family where it was previously and just kind of look at how it played up. had no idea what the outcome was going to be. I just took three scenarios on three different avenues. So that way it gave decision makers something to chew on, you know. And then before I conclude, I would say that I think the process isn't to culminate a 100% result. We have to make everything ripe and rich with good return. It's just understand that if you have a lot of larger lots or you have a lot of big boxes with a lot of parking, then if you want to stay revenue re sustainable, then what are you going to offset that with? How do you It's like the potato chip idea. What are you balancing it out with? Either way, aside from this, the three scenarios with the grid that shows the different residential, commercial, and then across the other side with some of the quarter lane things thrown in there. Um, it looked like the like strip mall over off of 41 was the lowest producer, right, and was the most diluted and the

most effective one was the prominade. But for the life of me, I cannot visualize in real life. I don't know why I can't picture it. It's because none of you have ever seen it. It's in a weird It's in a weird location and it actually barely has any commercial in it. Okay, I'll let Heather. No, that's fine. Thank you. Thank you, Bob, and thank you, Jen. Um, did I answer your question? No. Okay. Not a new phenomenon. Um,

okay. Everything that has increased taxable value per acre includes higher density residential and I'm curious if there's a solution and what that is that is commercial. So in your second slide you quote you like showed an office building in Celane and one of the comments that you made was that it has a lot of jobs and a lot of taxable value and I'm curious if based on your analysis of Post Falls that's something that we could reasonably do here or if we just don't have that kind of I don't know vibe in post or something like that. Yeah, I think I understand your question now. Mixed uh let me say this sing multif family residential is not the only option you have for increasing productivity in your model. I would argue that maybe the most productive opportunity you have is some kind of mixed use. Um, but putting on my old development hat for a minute, I will also tell you that is the hardest thing to land for a community because mixed juice, true mixed use, where you have a commercial retail housing for instance in one building is a really difficult thing to do. And I think the parcel I showed you, I'm trying to pull it up right now, was that parcel in Celane that is that really dense, tall residential building. and I having a hard time finding it right now, but I'll find it. And I think that that is an outlier in any market. So, Cordelane did that, but I don't know that I I don't know that I'd expect or anticipate any community to be able to replicate that. That seems like a little bit of an outlier parcel. And another example that you had that kind of might speak to this and it does go back to your first statement just a

couple minutes ago is like when you look at Sherman Avenue I think she had Clark's Jewelers on there and you look at Avenue and that was at 13 some odd peri million per acre there's really no parking associated with that. They don't have to provide so through the additional parking requirements.

Yeah. This is the prominade on the left and this is Riverstone and Cordelane. Again, those are those would seem to be relatively replicable for you. And again, ve very the Riverstone in partic Riverstone, is that right? Uh is pulling a lot more value um for Celane, right? It's pulling 17.2 million per acre. The parcel that I showed, the tall parcel, I still can't find it for some reason. Oh, there it is. I know now where I'm going. Okay, hang on a second. My po PowerPoint has been behaving all evening and now it's decided to misbehave. There's a um an animation in this slide. Here we go.

Oh, went too fast. There you go. Parkside condos. I think it would be hard. I think it'd be hard for us to do parkside condos, which would be incredibly productive, but I think that would be challenging to accomplish, especially in this market right now. But that, you know, but that said, if you just do a couple more 371 lofts, right, you're on the right track. You don't have to do a lot of that. You just have to do a little more than that. A little more of that, which is also probably the most controversial building that's ever been put up in Ghost Falls. So, of course. Of course it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Questions. Um other Yeah. Other questions.

So if we're talking about delution of commercial values due to parking, it's because of the actual square footage of parking. So the land area

in the case of like you said, we have minimal parking there, which is one of the biggest complaints that we get any kind of questionable story. Higher density residential. even went down one and a half and a half park lot which is not. Um, so have you seen any or is there an opportunity to do any um architecturally dense parking like parking garages or even in like town home style or vertical living under the structure to get that density down?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, you know, and I'm not an architect, uh, but this is an area where I think you can bring in some people to do some urban design work. Um, the most creative solution to that I've seen, um, in my market is what I call a tuck under garage. So, it's an the town home is elevated at the street level or it can take advantage of a a topographically sort of sloping lot um where you have parking um in behind the unit off a common drive and then uh the town home sits on top of the the part of the parking and then it's a walk up to the first story. Um that's a very typical we see that typology throughout the Midwest. Um, and that is a way to make the site very compact in terms of the parking needed.

I'd be curious like on the Walmart model, how it would change the value if at 170 parking spots that over 12 acres and you just had a garage. How would that change the commercial? Yeah, that's interesting. You know, Oh, go ahead. Sorry. It really comes down to the cost to Walmart to build that, right? $50,000, right? So close to, you know, plus thousands per parking stall. Taxable value on parking spaces. Is that based on the number of spaces or the area that surfaced?

It's usually surface, but Heather, do you have anything on that?

You're you're you are probably discounting parking as a land use in terms of its assessment. So you are assessing it, you are valuing it lower than its inherent land value. Okay? And so that is a built-in discount that you're creating. So I would suggest that if that incentive was removed, you would see big box developers willing to park fewer cars on site. It doesn't mean you park 200 fewer cars. It just means you park, say, a 100 fewer cars, right? And when you think about like the Black Friday rush, so kind of how I think of retail parking uses, um, if those outlots are empty on Black Friday, you probably have too much parking. That's a pretty simple calculation. You can look at your mall the same way. Those those sites tend to be overparked because large retailers want to have the assured parking for those sort of peak days. But I think they're probably overbuilding parking by a factor of 10 to 20%. So that's that's something you can easily regulate. You can regulate it in different ways. You can require less and you can tax it at a higher rate.

Taxing would be RS and that's getting him different.

Sure. Sure. Um, I would just also suggest to you that big box development, they're very set in their ways and they will tell you as much and so getting them to change the actual sort of type of building they're building is very challenging. Um, and I have some firsthand experience with this because uh, Menard's, which is kind of a Home Depot type of retailer, built a two-story store in my neighborhood, but the amount of um work that took with the city was was quite substantial. Uh, and so that's a very unusual approach to building that type of big box, but it can be done. It's not impossible. I saw a hand. Yeah, Randy.

So, this is a a very difficult trade-off for us as policy makers because if you ask most local residents, they'll say they want low density and low taxes. And right, there's trade-off, right? Because the more we have more parking spaces and more of the open areas and less productive land uses, effectively, the higher taxes have to be in order for the city. That's really the trade-off.

That's right. You just described it perfectly. Uh and I think that is the challenge and I think that's also though why it's helpful to show people the actual economics of land use and why that scenario does not pencil right it never it never is a break even for a city low density low taxes that doesn't work and it with the the projections you have if we're spending 26 million a year on infrastructure we should be spending 62 to maintain if that's even close to correct that's a pretty substantial Yeah,

I I do want to just chime in on that really quick. Uh, and we've kind of gone through these numbers a lot. We're for like our water and wastewater, we're we're currently collecting

on basically a 20-year horizon, but there's the anticipation that when they're looking at 50 to 100 years, there's going to have to be those gradual increases through updating the plans and recognizing, okay, instead of, you know, 2.5% increase every year, we need to modify that. And that gets addressed with the planning models that John does. Yep. And also just say that um mayor, I think this is the other qu the other thing that comes into my mind if I put my old city manager hat on for a minute is just the challenge of trying to forecast that budget increase year-over-year and wanting that to be a fairly predictable number year-over-year. And so if you have that longer life cycle sort of picture, um it can really help you plan that fee increase or that taxation increase year-over-year. So that's the kind of I like to think of that as looking around the corner. You're able to kind of see what's coming next. Uh that that's why we offer that because that's a true cost in terms of the the value of the asset over time as a life cycle cost. So it's kind of akin to thinking about your house or your car and the types of financial inputs you need to make there. New roof, foundation repair, new set of tires, you know, those kinds of things. So, um I see a question in the chat about a parking garage increasing the value of Walmart. Um it could I think it won't pencil for Walmart, which makes that really challenging for them because they want to build as cheaply as they can. By their own admission, their own real estate director has told us that they anticipate a 20-year lifespan for their buildings. So, they want to build a 20-year tip up, right? They want to build a tip up building that basically looks and acts like a big warehouse uh but is able to be used for retail and they need parking that will accommodate sort of turnover uh per sort of per per person turnover for that store um for

the period of time they're open during the day which is pretty long for a lot of Walmarts. Um and so I think that they they have a magic spreadsheet that they use for that I'm sure. Um, but I can tell you that for a project like that Menards in St. Paul, it it was really hard to get that pencil for Menard's and they kind of went kicking and screaming. Um, that Menard's been very productive for them in terms of the store location, but I'm sure it ended up costing them money, uh, in terms of how the the site was built and how they parked it. Uh, it's it's underparked a little bit, but it sits on a light rail transit uh, line. So, you know, those are sort of the the give and take that go into that conversation, but you certainly could um lower their um parking counts with something like that and you would increase the productivity of the parcel if you did that. It'd be kind of fun to play with that as a model.

Mark question. Yes. So, as the mayor stated, the people tell us they want low taxes and low density, and the city's been around a long time, and we have both of those things right now. How have we gotten away with it? I That's a great question. I think that's a really great question. I think the way you've gotten away with it is that you've grown to the point where you can sustain yourself, but you cannot grow further. I think that's what the numbers would show us is that if you intend to grow as a community, you will probably find that you can't sustain that low tax uh structure that you have right now.

And I think that also with her as uh some of the one of the this the screen shots showed is that we're already negative. Longterm were already negative just I mean that's all numbers were based on present day. So present day, we are short, you know, $64 million over that multi-year, well, $64 million million a year, whatever, whatever it was. Sorry. The the the gap that we're already in over the long term. And if we don't build stuff that has that thickening um the options or potential options that we could find, you know, it's kind of

to make up that $40 million in infrastructure that we're not currently spending on maintenance. Is that what you're saying? I guess correct in a life cycle. I I I see John like crunching. He's like I I don't like this. Um

yeah. Yeah. I think this is tricky because I think you're looking at a like a 20-year window. We're looking at life cycle cost. Um the two things are not in conflict. I think we're just looking at it through a different lens. And you know, in your I just pulled up this key infrastructure slide really quickly. in your enterprise funds, you have a regular uh utility fee for these, right? And so you have a plan to stay whole or net positive or net sort of neutral on these over time. It's through your transportation costs that um we have a little bit of concern because again, you've got a fair amount of road miles and you don't right now have needed spending to meet those needs over time. So, I think that's the thing that we just want to again this this is not this is not a Chicken Little situation. Sky is not falling here. Um, but it is something that we think you have an opportunity to think a little bit differently about as you as you grow as a community. Um, and you're going to kind of address those market pressures that you're going to that you're going to encounter.

John, did you want to try and better answer?

I think I'd say a couple things to add to that. I think one interpretation of this is as we look at future and future planning cycles for water, wastewater, and streets, you're going to see the replacement costs for some of those aging assets come into those plants in a way that they're not in there right now. Our sewer was built. So, if it's got a 50-year life cycle, we have we're not even seeing those in your time frame. Yeah. Then it wouldn't necessarily make sense to plan for that today. We we should know it's coming. We don't necessarily need to again increase rates to fund a project in 50 years. We just need to make sure that we are thinking consciously. The other thing I'd say to kind of L's question about how we gotten away with it. And I'm not the right person to answer this question, but I I know enough to be dangerous. The way levy rates and the state code worked for the previous 20 years allowed you to use allowed growth to fund maintenance of things in a way that it doesn't currently. So the growth that we saw over the last 20 years helped us to fund and even to build in some cases replacement roads that needed replacement. That model no longer exists.

This sort of ties into the presentation. We can't necessarily grow our way out of this maintenance predict maybe it was grown out of00 and if a financial person from the city wasn't correct correct well you like to jump in. So that's a pretty good job

because we become sort of like a Ponzi scheme, right, where we're trying to grow our way out and continually grow, but that requires building more road miles, building more sewers, building like adding to the problem. Somebody might say, well, shouldn't you just stop doing that and and you know, stop throwing more gas on the fire? But this is saying that the gas is what we need is we need to increase our density in order to catch up on property values in order to pay for the things that we already have and the maintenance that that's going to need.

Well, it'll certainly help you. It won't be a panacea, but I think if you think about how you're going to grow and how you might add population over time and think about that sort of incremental approach, that infill approach, right? So that you are when you build something new, you're not just building large lot single family homes that you're thinking about a mixture of of uses and types so that you are increasing your productivity overall. We got five minutes um left before the council needs to be able to head upstairs. Uh are there any questions? What's the impact of sales tax like from

We didn't map sales tax for your model. Um, we can look at that and it's a relatively small amount of revenue for you as a city. I don't know how that would look for the state uh and and how productive that that use would be in terms of sales tax because the sales tax goes to the state. The state then gives us back a little bit. Is that that partially offset the property tax or not really? We get about 5 million a year in sales tax sharing from the state and that's a portion mainly based on population not based on so it doesn't really help us to add sales transactions unfortunately

uh anybody else anyone from the advisory oh yes

a question I guess just looking at our city has a lot of what you think of traditional zoning. We also have some smart code depending on intensity I guess allows different uses on a single person within smart code. If I wanted to make it a home office, add something to it. Is there a difference in those property values versus like commercial? She's kind of um

Yeah, I could barely hear the question. John, do you want to take that or Bob? I think Bob's I I think part of I can handle it. So, one of the things I wanted to point out was when she talked about Cascade Court and what was the other? Travis Court or something like that. Travis.

Travis. Right. So, one of those is your standard R1 single family. The other one is a smart code. So, that brought in that extra density under that smart code which made it much more valuable per acre. Um and then uh obviously if you know in the in the downtown and the other smart code zones, yes, if you had those mixed uses um tied into you know a single family house with a home occupation probably doesn't add a lot of value to it. Um but if you had you know an addition you know if again if it has to do with that uh thickening uh larger footprint uh larger you know more valuable structure per acre is really where the value comes in.

Yeah. This is the Cascade Court versus Travis Court. So if you did Yeah. If you did Travis Court on Cascade, you'd get about 12.8 8 million per acre. I think they assess it what it is and what it's on, not what it could be. So if you have a 0.1 acre, okay, now you have a smaller lot. So you get its land value. Then you have a structure value, whatever that is. And then so you may have an age of your built may play a factor into the age of the home. Is this a difference I guess?

Yeah, potentially. And then you being downtown, you may have a proximity. Right. Well, it depends what the base land value is in the downtown and what you're getting it in incremental. So, a 0.1 in downtown land value could be different than a 0.1 acre farther away from a city. So, the base whatever that land value increment is. They're not going to give you credit though for something that you don't have built yet.

All right. Thank you everybody for your questions and comments. I do want to say that this uh presentation was recorded uh and we once we receive it we will put it on the postfalls 2045 website um and likely on the city website as well just so we have it um so you'll be able to share it with your friends um and thank you again and urban 3 will be coming back uh in April uh along with SCJ to kind of work on some of those land use scenarios among some other things um and so there will be more kind of dive into some other aspects of this at that point. Are we getting the slide deck?

Uh, we can't the Yes, I Heather, can we get that slide deck then? Well, it's kind of like one of those because it's animated. There's certain things like what do you actually get from um we thought about I mean looking at it I didn't want to send it ahead of time because I was like you need the narration to go along with it but yeah we can provide the slide deck. We can we'll absolutely provide it as PDF. Yeah, absolutely. And then I think with the recording it will be more meaningful. All right, dismissed. Thank you everybody. Thanks. Have a good evening. Okay, bye bye. Thank you Heather.