City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening and welcome to tonight's Thursday,  February 5th uh work session uh between the city   council and school board during work session.  I don't know if I recall us ever having as many   folks uh here um in one place from the school  department um school board and city council.   So very excited um about the collaboration uh  starting certainly earlier um than it was last   year and to come to solutions as we're all facing  pretty significant challenges but nothing that   can't be overcome um by being reasonable and and  working together. So, I'm excited that we have   uh new uh chair Lisa Rapaort and just want to  thank everybody for the dialogue that we're about   to have. I'll pass it over to the city manager.  Um actually, before I do that, uh Chair Raport,   anything you would like to to say before We  are also quite appreciative of the opportunity   to have the conversation. I think we serve our  city and our kids really well when we're all on   the same page about what's best for students and  what's best for the community. So, we're looking   forward to the conversation. I appreciate it  indeed. All right, city manager. Thank you,   mayor, and thank you, school board chair. We're  pleased to be here tonight as a group. We um we   game plan this conversation to a certain extent,  but we also know that there will be a whole lot we   uh we didn't plan for. So, we're looking forward  to the conversation. This, as you will recall,   stemmed from a request from councelor Cook  to bring these groups together to try and   understand better how the capital planning process  works and to take conversations about facilities   and grounds and and schools further together. So,  with that, I'm going to start with Dr. Mclofflin.   I'm going to start our presentation. Great.  Uh, good evening, Mr. Mayor, city councilors,   uh, school board members, and city manager. Uh,  thanks to everybody to uh, for being here and   taking the time to do this all together. Uh  I want to start by framing our presentation   tonight. Uh our goal is to discuss our process.  Uh it's an opportunity to give you insight not   just into the next five or six years that are  visible in the capital improvement plan, but  

how we think beyond the horizon. Uh how we come  to conclusions, how we plan multiple years out,   uh how we try to be stewards of very expensive  public assets uh responsibly over time. Uh our   understanding based on prior conversations is that  part of the reason for this meeting is a sense of   surprise about the expansion of what we proposed  for new Franklin uh school. And that reaction   makes a lot of sense. Uh when projects move into  a different scale, it naturally raises questions   not just about the project but what else you know  might be coming down the road. Uh what could feel   surprising in the future? whether the level of  clear thoughtful planning that should underpin   investments of this magnitude is really there.  I also appreciate the genuine curiosity uh here   a desire to be to be responsive to the schools  which I know uh the council values while at the   same time being mindful of cost uh tradeoffs  and broader responsibilities to the city. Uh   and that tension is healthy and we I know all of  us here sit with that tension uh all the time.   Uh tonight we're not asking for a decision about  anything. Of course, uh it's about transparency.   It's about pulling the curtain back on how school  facility planning works, how much of it is rooted   in preventative maintenance and long-term asset  management and how uh individual projects fit into   a much longer arc of planning uh that extends  well beyond any single CIP cycle. Ken Lynchi,   our director of building grounds and maintenance,  is here to walk you through how we plan for and   manage school facilities over time. Uh his work  is grounded in preventive maintenance system   life cycles, long-term asset management, and he  brings a deep practical understanding of both   the buildings themselves and the trade-offs that  we've made over the years in trying to maintain   those buildings. Ken will walk you through the  facility side of the work, the history behind it,   how projects like New Franklin in the Career  Technical Education Center fit into a disciplined  

long-range planning process. Our goal tonight is  a shared understanding. If we leave with a clear   picture of how we plan, what you can reasonably  anticipate both as a board and as a council,   and how we stay aligned as projects evolve, then I  think the conversation's done exactly what it was   set out to do. Uh, so with that, I'll turn it over  to uh, Ken Lynch. Wherever you're comfortable. Thanks, Zach. Thank you, Zach. Uh, good evening,  mayor, city council, school board, city manager.   As we go through the presentation, I'm going  to give a brief summary. Um, I thought it would   be best to kind of go school by school, kind of  give you a timeline of where the high school was,   go through the middle school, elementarymentaries,  and then we'll get into broader into the   elementarymentaries as we move through. As you  can see with with PHS Wson High School 1958,   we've did three additions throughout those years  with the Ninth Complex in the middle. U, we did a   major renovation 2002 to 2005 with a 36 mil with  an additional 4.5. Thankful to our career tech at   that time, Pam McCartney was able to recalculate  that funding to get us additional funding for   free. That 4.5 million that process also started  when we built started in 2002. That process   roughly starts about 7 years prior. That would  then roll into our middle school built in 1930   75 addition where we are now today with a major  renovation between 2010 and 2013. Again, that   same process starts roughly 5 to seven years prior  to that as well. As we move into the next slide,   Loto Harbor Elementary, originally construction in  1969, open concept building. No walls throughout   pretty much the entire academic side. Over time,  slowly, they would put up a wall here, put up   a wall there. But imagine you going to school  back in the 70s and there's no walls through the  

classrooms to the hallways to the science areas  to the amphitheater. When we looked at that um   through that process when I came into facilities  in the '9s, we did a window replacement as part   of the 2012 central office move to relocate city  hall. Then we expanded the kindergarten to that   way. And then we did a full complete renovation  2015 and 16. Again, that process started about   2012 2013. I'm going to elaborate more on these  elementaryaries as we get into a further slide.   As we get into Dondarrow 1973 75 it burnt down  u mainly the roof and infrastructure came down   we left the concrete walls rebuilt in the '9s we  had two modulars uh I believe they came in in 96   we moved 2002 as part of that renovation we did  a renovation in four classrooms which we call the   castle some people might rich coach councelor BL  shaking his head as part of that full renovation   17 and 18 and then we just did the windows and 50%  of the sighting down 24 and as well as you know   RJL Robert J. Listister Academy established in  1996 was out to Jones base out to peace air force   base we shifted that into Sherman school in 2024  and we were fortunate to move it into community   campus with a recent renovation two years ago.  New Franklin school has warranted its own slide   construction 1963 flag pole edition in 83. We did  have a fire in ' 85 which we just renovated that   area as part of I believe the redistricting back  in the early 2000s granted an addition of four   classrooms and additional cafeteria. At that time  the gymnasium was a cafeteria come 10:30 in the   morning. They only had Fezette in the morning. So,  we were able to flip that cafeteria 180 degrees   given its own space and allow the gymnasium  to be there throughout the day. We looked  

at energy efficiency upgrades and like I said,  I'll get into more elaborate in the next slide,   but we looked at condensing boils. New Franklin  was our model school. We did mechanical upgrades   in 2019. It was a perfect timing. That school had  no mechanical systems besides some cabinet unit   heaters against the wall. when we came out of co  that school had full 100% mechanical system fresh   air throughout the building at that time was also  conversations of AC then we focused in adding AC   into 22 throughout the school and again here we  are requesting funding for phase 1 2 and three   um for the future renovation. So back as I stated  before, if I look at the elementary timelines,   we started in 2002 with New Franklin as part  of that redistricting which fell into Dondere   a little bit, but we actually sat there with  a few schoolboard members of where we are with   facilities. So we looked at our facilities with  the door and Whittier. We put out a study. They   came back and gave us an idea of where we are,  what's the construction cost, what's a renovation   cost. As that folded out, central office, as I  stated, moved over to city hall as part of the No   Child Left Behind Act. The kindergarten revolved  into renovation, but also required us to install   a sprinkler system. At that time, we didn't  have one. However, the state fire marshall said,   "You have until 2017 to finish." So, that really  grounded some of the funding through Mr. Baheno to   allow us to then where are we going to move at our  elementary schools? At that time, that's when we   looked at energy-wise as we move into renovations,  where do we want to go energy? Do we want to do   condensing boilers, gertherms, you know, how do  we want to move through? So, we did another study   with EI and then we ramped it into New Franklin  as a model and we did about 500,000 or $480,000   there to see how these condensing boils, DDC  controls, refrigeration, thermal insulation,   and some other window repairs. We used that model  and then turned that into the renovation project  

for Little Harbor. Again, first renovation since  1969. Fire code requires that took us two summers,   5 million a summer in nine weeks. Pretty much 18  to 20our days in order to flip that area into and   be done. We then shifted into Dondo school.  Same process. 10 million, 5 million a summer,   nine weeks. If some of you don't recall or don't  know, the fifth grade wing had no corridor. The   corridor actually went in between the classes.  So when I went down that corridor, I'd actually   walk in through my class to get to Pip's class  to get to Mrs. Cook's class. So we turned around   and looked at that structural wise and created a  corridor, which now you see the yellow walkers.   They kind of give that transition to middle school  as well. But we helped adapt that school to have a   better environment for the teachers in the fourth  and fifth grade wing as I stated then. Then we   shifted into just before CO New Franklin had new  mechanical systems. We felt that was the practical   renovation to do at that time. Then we shifted  into the AC as that was another conversations   as we knew the capital funding as renovations for  elementary schools were coming and knew Franklin   was on the docket. We as administrators looked  at ESSER funds for the Dondo windows and siding   replacement. And here we are with new Franklin  request of the three and the five and the five capital process. As we look at our community  and our schools, we know they're long-term.   We don't build new schools. We renovate  them. You look at the dates we have every   20 25 years. We look to upgrade our schools  due to the age. High school's 1956. has been   through three little ones, a major one and  a major renovation. Here we are in 2026. So,   how do we identify our needs? It's through regular  building work orders, staff inputs. You know,   do we look at engineers? We look at equipment  failures. We look at building age systems. How  

do we operate not only as operational, but how do  we operate as educational safety, educational and   oper efficiencies? Next slide, please. When  you take that assessment and you put it into   categories that we start looking at roofs, HVAC's,  interiors, safeties, I do want to point out in   grant funding to date, I've been able to receive  from the state $929,46 free from multiple grants,   Homeland Security Grant 1, two, three, and four.  Um, so we've allowed to put a lot of cameras,   access control, and other things throughout  our schools at no cost to the taxpayers.   And then we look into code compliances,  educational needs and site infrastructure   as we categorize our problem. As we move into the  CIP slides, this slide has been with us for in my   tenure in facility director for multiple years.  Over the years that investment has grown first,   we'd be $500,000 about every three years.  Then it turned into a million dollars every   three years. And then we've kind of grown that  in based off the individual needs of smaller   capital projects but not large scale where  we can do multiple things within that time   frame. The next slide kind of gives you that  idea of whether it's paving I mean excuse me   brick repairs gym floor replacement refinishing  security. So we kind of give you a broader range   to allow us to do smaller project but then  warranted to be in a capital plan. uh most   of these projects above 50 as you can see that  250 100,000 we try to project out yes there is   one year open but that allows us some flexibility  or me some flexibility depending on how I have   to fluctuate or depending what project comes in  line that we need to adjust to next slide please this is the elementary slide that  we present uh this is usually was  

toward geared towards the elementary  schools we had little Harvard Dandereo   As you can see here, this is our FY27 and  28 request for 5 million each. That last   5 million will then revert back to Dondo.  During the esser, we are able to use every   penny that we can get and get a bunch,  excuse me, to get additional sighting,   but we weren't able to side the entire place. So,  we want to revert back to that and just wrap up   that siding piece on the back side of the skull.  There's nothing wrong with it besides showing some   age. Um so we felt that we can hold off for a  few years and then we can revert back to that. Next slide please. Excuse me. As we talked  about the elementary schools, this is how we   talk about what we proposed in phase. When we did  the original design back in 2014, meeting with the   principles and administrators, we had a design.  We had a plan. We had to create a layout of how   we want to proceed with the school. As things  resolved, programs change, building needs changed,   um support services, um case managers, we  brought the architect back in also part   of the redistricting conversations and we brought  in and said, was this model going to work that we   already had planned and ready to move forward with  or was it not going to work? And this is where the   adjustment came into play. As you can see, there's  three phases. First phase is to allow us to get   the plus one classroom up in the left. This allows  us flexibility to move classrooms around as we   work in the building and renovate. Phase two gets  us into the additions and we have to get into the   additions on the bottom left in the pink and beige  because that allows us to build this centerpiece   which we sorry shouldn't touch it but either way  allows us to build that centerpiece. Forget it's   a touchcreen. Allow this to be the centerpiece  that we can bring all the case managers,  

support services, all them into one cohortedware  area where they allow to work together cohesively   versus somebody being down in off the cafeteria,  somebody being over here by the main office and   somebody's down here as well or they're working  in a hallway. So, we've strategically planned   this place out and how we can work through, but  also try to meet the needs when we're done. And   then the last phase is falls into cosmetics and  some security in pieces as well. A lot of roof   replacements. There's some additions, paving,  there's a lot of infrastructure upgrades. AC   is going to be reused. There's some additional  mechanical systems to cover these pieces as well.   So it's it's a wellthoughtout investment for for  ports goals and the city of Portman. Playgrounds   as the grateful the city council gave us funding  to to talk about the playgrounds. The process in   years past was supported by PTAs. We then brought  that in-house in in multiple conversations. We are   as you can see in 27 and 28 are the $500,000 for  New Franklin and then the $500,000 for Dondarrow.   We are in the midst if you can jump the next  slide please. We are in halfway through for Little   Harbor. Um, as of today, we are 99.5% done with  the plans. We have one little tweak that we will   do on Tuesday. And then as of next Friday, we're  100% is what we call is called turn the page where   we've reviewed the entire project where it best  meets Dondo's need, excuse me, Little Harbor's   needs and PEEP, the early education program. We're  also in the middle of permitting right now with   the wetland and trolling talking with uh Suzanne  Woodland today. will get into the perimeter proc   uh bid process and getting the bid out shortly  and we'll be moving and breaking ground April   break. Now, we already know we got to put a plan  in place to where the kids are going to play,  

how we going to get them moving. Is it the fields  across the street using Cloud Fields a little bit?   So, we're working on a play in order to meet the  timeline for school of August 20 21st 22nd just   before school opens. We have to backtrack  a timeline. It's construction. There's site   work. There's demo work. There's grading work.  There's wetland requirements we have to do. So,   we're in talks with Aaron Lawson, the principal.  So, they're working on a plan now and how are we   going to work co cohesively to make sure that  happens and we'll be done hopefully April 21st.   The CTE slide, this is what we brought to city  council um two sessions ago. It's to identify   that the state is we are coming up for state  funding in FY3031 that this time in the next   year or so we will be creating an RFQ to look for  qualified architect for services to sit down with   staff our director superintendent of where we're  going to move change adapt to grow our CT program   to where it is to move forward um such as we did  back in 2002. We also asked for additional funding   to start placing in for the mechanical systems.  The career tech is also not just in the back end   of the building. It's spread throughout. So, this  is hopefully going to allow us to piggy back some   of the state funding for the mechanical upgrades  that the life expectancy of the high school is   starting to reach. built in 2004 to hopefully ease  the burden or ease however we can look for state   funding or the renovation eventually is we're  going to have to start talking discussions of with   the superintendent as well as the high school's  reaching its life expectancy on the mechanical   systems life safeties and we can just I'll discuss  that a little bit more in broader terms in one of   the last slides but we're going to have to start  looking at things just it's life expectancy of  

mechanical systems but this is what we put in two  years ago and now we're adding or starting the uh   out years of years. What I want to make a quick  note is after this slide normally in the capital   improvement book I misplaced and didn't put the  paving roofing slide in that slide I added to   the capital plan that's not on this piece is was  I believe was warranted to take out of that first   slide due to the square footage of the paving  which is just over 900,000 and the roof square   footage that we have districtwide is over 500,000  due to the magnitude sometimes of flexibility or   cost I felt that it was worn its own page I just  forgot to put it in in this slide. So I want to   at least make a comment on that next steps and  from capital improvements. So it kind of gives   you a broader page. We have these I have had these  identified in a form up in my office. But if you   look at each school, I kind of give a broader some  of these bigger capitals, some of these are little   capitals. But when we look at each building as  a whole and we look at the age, we look at the   deficiencies, we look at where we are in image  management, we look at usages, it gives you a   broader spectrum of what we need a pen coming  down the pipe for CIP, you know, sound systems,   clocks to classrooms. We're always cosmetically  painting. We have a lot of things and I'll give a   slide shortly coming up but you can kind of gives  you an idea of what's coming down the line for the   high school as I talked about with the CTE FY30  how the RFQ will solist for an engineer to revisit   and vision the needs and design as we will tie in  some of the mechanical systems. Uh we come into   the middle school to give you an idea that I also  put in here for the windows. The windows that are   beautiful in the front white on the side are nice  and white. Those are installed 1986. Now we've   refurbished them. They work. But his question  is how many times can we continue to refurbish  

to at some point we come back in the line and ask  for funding to replace those windows or look kind   of what is the next step for the facade of that  building. We're working on some step replacement   this summer. Uh sidewalk restoration this summer.  The deterioration between the winters and and the   salt is is really taking a toll. And we look at  the upgrades as well throughout the expansions.   Next slide, please. Same with Dondereas. I talked  about the exterior. We're continue to do roofs   and that's in that slide. We'll start looking at  exterior mason repointing, brick repairs. Same   way with Little Harbor. As we revert back out of  New Franklin, there's always conversations on how   to get a security entrance into Little Harbor.  We have a slight plan with the architect now   that we're trying to define more based off the  building needs, but we'll continue to do that.   And then when we feel that we have that I've  solidified, we'll bring that forth as well as   into one of the slides. Again, that windows there  were 1986. They've been all refurbished. They work   well, but those who eventually will have time and  need replacement, stage lighting, athletic complex   built in 1989. Uh we continue to do irrigation  repairs, fencing replacements, uh soccer field,   uh hockey boards, grass restoration. And if  you take an area view, look at Google Earth,   you can see the wear and tear that our grass field  significantly tank. We love our turf field. We use   it day in and day out, nightly, weekends. It's  been, I believe, the best investment for porcel,   even our new one. However, it doesn't have a life  expectancy of 10, 12, 13 years. And that's why I   did put it in the bottom of the slide, just  so that some point you're going to see that   pop back up. Our goal is to get it to at least a  12 13 year life like we did the last time. Um in   addition to this field that we have, we put the  shock pad underneath which gives that additional  

cushion to help with the GMAX as well. We that's  a investment that Porson spent wisely in the first   phase because we can reuse that in the second  phase. That's a about a $100,000 investment. So   that'll get reused as part of that process and  then we'll we'll move on from there. to give   you an idea what our summers kind of look like or  what my summer will look like. This is what we're   projecting to kind of look like what this summer  is for for workload with new Franklin little hover   playground. There is roofs at both schools going  to be happening as I stated. We're continuing to   look at security upgrades. We're looking at a  blue light notification. There's a couple other   things as well we're doing this summer. The RFP  will begin sometime between the summer and the   fall. We continue to look at interior upgrades.  uh stairwell treads, carpets are getting replaced   again this summer. Mechanical upgrades as we talk  about age assessment on equipment. Air handler 3   lost its cooling coil. We tried to do repairs.  It's just it's shot between the air movement and   the salt water. So that's going to get replaced  this summer with some mechanical dampers. Again,   athletic complex built in 1989. Slight  improvement in 2002, but we're looking to   do some further things. And then we have paving  as well with PHS. And then this last slide here   kind of gives you an idea of what we did this  past summer. Not only do we look at, you know,   the central maintenance and safety upgrades and  we support summer programs, but in addition to   routine work of custodial, regular maintenance,  work orders, mowing fields, painting fields,   you know, whatever it may be. This is also what we  do as a generic list between each school between   building repairs, capital improvements throughout  all our schools and throughout the summer priority   ties through the energy efficiencies and safety  improvements as we move through the buildings. And as we get into questions, I got one fact  that I'd like to talk about facilities. Education   schools are the second most used facility  in the United States besides an airport.  

If you use the high school as an example, we  move roughly 1,00 to,200 people a day in that   building six to seven times. If you take  that seven times by five, that's 35,000 ft   moving throughout that building. Not counting  the weekends, not counting the nights, plays,   basketball games, things like that. You take that  over 40 week 44 week, you open about five 1.4   4 million plus foot traffic in that building  moving through doors, classrooms, bathrooms,   life safety and all that. It takes a lot.  It takes a It takes a manpower and the team   that we have to help maintain and keep that  building where we are. Portman Schools has   done a great investment in our schools.  We hope to continue that investment and   continue to make our schools look that they  do right now from 20 years old to 5 years old. Thank you, Mr. Lynch. Uh, you did forget the  tennis courts on there. Uh, they were fantastic.   Um, but a a great job. I know that we threw that  over the fence uh for pickle ball requirements,   but a great uh a great job um on that and really  um a uh impressive turnaround on that. But   um clearly know a lot of information and do a  fantastic job. And I would never have thought,   although I will dine out now knowing that they're  the second most used um building besides airports.   Uh that's reasonable and it could easily um it  could easily I mean sure they're um all as uh very   easy on buildings as my nine-year-old is. I'm sure  it just keeps getting easier and easier. Um but   they're kids, you know, it's that's what they're  there for and then you know and we'll you know   fix it and maintain it afterwards. So this was  a um a great overview. I know that there's there   um this is hopefully the first of a couple of  work sessions that we can have uh this um this  

budget cycle early in the budget cycle. I'd like  to schedule another one. I would like to keep this   um as possible uh focused on the facilities.  That's what was prepared for uh this evening   um and to focus on you know the questions that we  have around facilities. Obviously there's a lot   of other questions that make up a budget, health  insurance, all of those things. uh we will have   hopefully have those conversations uh with you  guys. But considering this was in the packet, this   was in the um this was uh you know noticed. If  we can keep the conversation on uh buildings and   facilities and what we're doing uh to manage the  expectations, I think that will uh serve us well.   If it drifts off, you know, uh we can certainly  address that. Uh but want to make sure that we're   we're here to answer the questions that you guys  uh graciously came to prepare uh to discuss. So,   with that, I'll open up to any questions. Um, I  don't know how many. It sounds like Kenny, this is   not the first time you've given the presentation  to the school board. Um, they've probably heard   that. But, um, I will try to kind of go back and  forth uh for questions between the council and the   school board if that's uh if that's all right.  If there's not questions in the school board,   we don't have to come up with them uh just to come  up with questions. Um, but uh and likewise for the   the council. But, um, I'll start off with just  opening the floor to any questions after thanking   uh Mr. Win for a great presentation. Councelor  Cook. Thank you, your honor. Um, thank you,   school board chair, and thank you to the team from  the the schools department for the presentation.   I did ask for this work session, and the reason I  did is I wanted to make sure that we were planning   adequately for the next five years plus. Um uh  I chair the municipal buildings committee and we   have a major project that's sitting on the docket  and that we're trying to plan for and I don't   want to be in a position that we plan something  and then we have to neglect the schools. Sure.   So um that's that's my biggest concern is making  sure that every item that has been addressed here  

um is actually in our CIP budget. And so, um,  that's really my my biggest question is is all   the things that you covered is every single one of  them in the CIP budget in specifically I believe   that there's a school facilities, um, capital  improvements, um, kind of a generic CIP item. Does   that encapsulate all of these improvements beyond  the major capital improvements? Yeah. So, we so   with facilities, you have to look at it two ways.  We have to look at we call lowhanging fruit and   big hanging fruit depending on where the category  that we have. Yes. So we talk periodically if you   go up to my office I have whiteboards everywhere  that have a lot of these things. Not only we   talk about this but we talk about piping and  elementarymentaries. We talk about you know   this potentially coming down from the state radon.  You know we going to be testing for radon and we   look at so there's a broader range. So then we  categorize where does that line fall and then we   look at generically putting that statement into  CIP. So it doesn't pinpoint us to one particular   piece that we can do. When we talk about athletic  complex upgrades we talk about allows us to do   broader repairs depending on where the funding is  of the irrigation or the fencing. Then we also get   into facilities as we talk about there's a lot  of lowhanging fruit of the stairwell treads that   we've been doing out of operating but there comes  to a painting when you want to do a larger scale   and try to change the aesthetics like we did in  the elementarymentaries then that falls into the   CIP. So yeah we put everything and anything into a  category and then we put it into the CIP plan. One   thing I'd mentioned just in terms of the planning  process for for um for you be that's beyond us. Um   the the CTE um year is a guess on our part because  the way in which that you basically we're cycling   through all the CTE centers in the state and  the state has a vested interest in maintaining  

those centers regionally. Uh and so we those the  earliest we think that we would be up is FY30 but   it could be 32 because of the bienium. Uh and it  depends on who is who's in front of us what they   do how many places get funded. So for us what we  will need to do is we will start the the we will   start the work of building towards being prepared  uh to and and along well building to be ready for   FY30 if if we're uh if it happens knowing we  might have to push to 32. But along that route,   there's a whole bunch of decision points that  are for the board and for the council where   at any point there's off-ramps where we could say  we're just not gonna we're not interested in doing   that or interested in doing it in a smaller way.  Um but uh the way this system works effectively   is we we have our window and for the most part  even though it's not formally laid out this way,   if we miss our window, we'll see you in 25 years  for the next opportunity. So um so that's where   we're where is and that's a big one. That's a  big ticket item for us obviously coming down   the road. A followup on this? I have a followup  specifically on CTE. Um because that is the next   major budgetary item from what I can tell. Um  state funding is challenging right now and it   seems to be getting more and more challenging. Do  we have any alternate planning process in place   for the case scenario where the state decides not  to fund these programs and these improvements?   Uh I mean I I think the the the scale of what  we're trying to do would be dependent upon the   state continuing and I think we're in a moment  politically where there's not a lot of things that   both parties agree on in terms of education but  one is the the kind of the school to work pipeline   uh is one that people do and so regardless of  I think party most folks are are uh supportive  

of career and technical education centers even  if even folks who are less supportive of other   parts of public education. So, I think right now  we're confident it's going to it that money will   be there and be available uh for us. Uh but no,  we I I don't think we're not in a position where   um I mean the the plan B in terms of that funding  source is if we as a as a school board and a city   council and this community uh wanted to take that  type of step and for some reason that money wasn't   there, which again I think is going to be, uh then  we would have a really hard conversation about to   what extent can our local community absorb those  types of costs or to what extent are we going to   significantly scale back the scope of what it  is that we would hope for our our career and   technical education center. Thank you. Thanks,  Councelor Cook. Any schoolboard questions? Uh   Nancy? Well, I think one of the things that I'm  really afraid of, and some people think I'm crazy   for saying this, but I'm worried about the current  2,000 building units that are now being built in   Portsouth and what effect that's going to have  on our schools. I know I was part of the joint   building committee for the high school in 2006.  Our high school is built for 1500 students. So,   we've got plenty of room at our high school. Our  middle school is just about a Well, no. Our middle   school has room for more student. I don't think  we have to worry about those two schools. But what   I'm worried about is our elementaryaries. If if  families move into our community, that is going   to affect our elementary schools. And so to answer  your question about future building needs, are we   going to add need to add on to New Franklin,  Little Harbor, Dondo, whatever to absorb these   families? They say that it's only single people  and, you know, people that don't have children   that are moving in, but we have the Sherban School  um project. We have the Christ Church project,  

we have the Christmas tree project. Um, I  just I can't believe that families aren't   going to be moving into Portsmouth. Now, I could  be wrong and there's no way to substantiate that,   but I just warn everybody that I think we could  be facing adding on to an elementary school. Thank you, Nancy, uh, for that. I think it's worth  uh it's important uh to remember that in terms of   the elementary schools and I would uh maybe it's  a a question for or reinforce something that Mr.   Lynch said in that we renovate and expand. We  wouldn't necessarily build another school uh   because of that, but we would expand and take that  into account. Um I think the uh the lesson at the   high school it is there's room there um and for  the middle school and so um moni monitoring that   you know closely and to how quickly we can find  out especially in the little harbor neighborhoods   you know if that is ever going to start filling up  faster um that's going to place more pressure. Um   I saw councelor uh Taber and then councelor  oh then we'll go back. Thanks mayor. Um, we not only have to look at ed what we do  in our schools now, but what we're going to   be doing in our schools five years from now.  And one of the big drivers, it seemed to me,   of the new Franklin renovation was the space  didn't work for the way we do education now. there   was not a place for the support staff for the  psychologists for the paras you know and all that   um support we now give kids so when you look at  our seven buildings now are there any other areas  

that you see the space doesn't work for the way  education is moving so it's more are there some   pain points where program is moving one and the  space is not keeping. I mean, I think it's always   wise as you're trying to build, you're trying  to future proof um uh things. Uh I think within   the realm of the trends we see now, um I think  we're I think we're comfortable where we are at   the moment, but you know, uh what was the build  date, Kenny, on Little Harbor? 1969. Right. So in   1969 it seemed like a great idea to have no walls,  right? Uh and so when did people start to decide   geez I don't know that that's the best idea. Uh I  think that's hard. So but I think to answer to be   you know to answer your your question in terms of  our current analysis we don't see trends that we   can't of the things we understand about how you  know how education is evolving. We we don't see   things that are in the way of you know the next 10  to 15 years of what we're going to be doing. But   it's so hard to predict how our field is going to,  you know, evolve and and uh from from, you know,   from uh how is AI going to impact what our what  our uh what our instruction looks like, what our   uh day-to-day operations look like. Uh, I mean  those are things I think we're still trying to   I think a lot of people are trying to figure out  in a lot of different a lot of different areas,   but I would say there's not things we see right  now that are a clear block to what we can what   we can project out on the horizon. So, councelor  Tabber and maybe just a quick related followup   to that. Um, and this is anecdotal and I'm not  an educator, but it does seem as though there   is more support within the classrooms now um than  previously. Is that a trend that we will continue   to see kind of rise? Are we flattening out on  the support levels? Are we, you know, I guess  

that's the the question. Do we expect that trend  to continue up and to the right or do we think   that we've kind of met the moment there and it's  about finding the space to work or do we expect   it just to kind of keep going where the ratios of  adults to children in the classroom grows? So I I   think the the trend even outside of ports I mean  just in general in education more and more people   more and more people uh seeking uh opportunities  for indivi individualized opportunities for their   for their students and looking at you know the the  legal structures that give them an opportunity to   do that. And so, you know, I think when you think  about New Franklin and Kenny was speaking to this,   a lot of the work in New Franklin is around taking  that li what is the library space now and really   trying to rework several different things so that  I know a lot of the council we really appreciated   um uh folks who came out uh whether it  was during redistricting or during this   uh tour that we did. uh when you saw the other  schools, you saw what like Dandereo looked like   uh with the you know nice spaces that were  for small groups or individualized instruction   uh that didn't exist in New Franklin and part  of what we're trying to prod reproduce is is   that so to answer your question I think that trend  we'll see if that trend subsides but I think that   trend has been the movement nationally is more  towards those types of things as people become   savvier about how to navigate those systems.  Okay. uh back to the school board, but I'm   just going to break my rule that I set out at the  beginning first. I think it would be helpful as   um you're talking about as we talk about capital  programs together if you know Dondarrow and New   Franklin are different and we have to put  more um more either pair of professionals or   um educators in the classroom because there's  not a centralized way to take advantage of that   and kind of make them more effective. Do not  know if that's that's true. But if there's a   way to look at the improvements that we make in  terms of having an efficiency for our educational  

process and delivering to the students in terms  of outcomes and tests a higher level potentially   with less people because they are uh arranged in  the school in a better way that would go a long   way in terms of our kind of long-term planning in  terms of balancing operating and capital costs to   invest in those things faster if it means that we  can I guess stem that that uh that growth a little wonder if I might speak to that just briefly  as an example. I think where we have more space   particularly in the high school, there have been  a lot of creative changes. Oh, sorry. There have   been a lot of creative changes in the use of  space at the high school where we do have more   room in the physical facility. So, for example, we  redid the nth grade social studies curriculum. So,   it's kind of a maker space combined with looking  at UN global sustainability goals. and they have   three groups of kids in three different classrooms  and they move through that space in small groups.   So in New Franklin we don't have the space and the  physical plant to reimagine how we can accommodate   kids but in the high school we definitely do  when we're doing that in a lot of ways. So I   think it's a fair question and I think when we  have more room to maneuver literally it's much   easier to reimagine things and futureproof it as  we reinvision how we want to educate kids. So,   I just wanted to add that. Thank you. Um, that  will count as school board's question. I guess   that was more statement and I made like three.  So, um, oh, did Baron, did you have a question?   Okay. Uh, councelor Bagley. Um, thank you, your  honor. Um, with the latest data, we're at 27,600   roughly cost per pupil, which is above the state  average of 22,700. Um, and it's quite a bit above   comparable communities. A lot of the really small  communities, their cost per pupil high because  

they don't have economies of scale. um how are we  capturing your costs so that we are ensuring that   the tuition didn't kids from outlying communities  are paying their fair share? Brian. So, so I   think the um the so our area agreement between  with Newcastle with all the SAU50 communities,   Newcastle, Greenland, Newington, Ry uh spells  originally originally passed in 7172 and then   uh their clarifying agreements, four different  clarifying agreements uh in between u spells out   exactly what those communities contribute to and  won't. Um, but for the most part, most of what it   is is our uh we effectively take our our cost  for all for to run the entire high school and   then do a per headcount and then distribute  it out to uh SEU50 communities uh with some   um some exceptions around some of the some  special ed costs and and out of district   special ed costs for SA50. SEU50 covers those  those costs themselves for their students. Um,   but there's some there's some nuance to it and  I don't have the entire list in front of me,   but definitely something we can come back to  the council with to be like to to show you the   actual agreement. Here is the latest version  of those things, but I don't think that the   um um I don't know. I think it's better for me to  return in a future date and be able to show you   exactly exactly what goes into that the um the  overall number that we then uh create and break   out and give out to people in SU50. Sorry. Yeah.  Because I I have serious concerns that Portsouth   taxpayers are paying for these costs and that  burden is not shared by other people using our   schools and I want to see the data that shows that  that's not the case. Sure. Councelor Beagley. Uh,  

you want to jump in, Nathan? I I just feel like  I should on the numbers. Yeah. I just want to   say out loud just because I don't want folks to  walk away with a sense that there's the capital   investment is really missing. There is a capital  investment component that makes back uh a piece   of that. I I think that the superintendent uh  they can bring that back, but I but there is   an element of the two of the area agreement that  speaks to the capital costs at the high school.   uh to the extent that we bring in students on an  elementary or middle school basis and they pay   you know a rate those rates aren't aren't baked  with any capital component but the high school one   that we have in the area agreement is and you'll  see that when you when you see some more of the   data but I just didn't want anybody to walk away  thinking that it's it's absent because it's there.   And just in terms of the numbers um  you know going on the Josiah Bartlett   uh Institute which is not necessarily a  left lining think tank uh they pegged that   on a state average of 26,000 and a half or so uh  roughly there. So, we're still in line in that,   but I think having that understanding and that  that conversation would be helpful to know where   we are based on that and that a lot of that  is declining populations. Um, that all of a   sudden we have fixed costs and pushes up the  average cost. Going back to the school Oh, uh,   is there anybody on the school board before we go  to councelor Hopkins? Okay. Um, councelor Hopkins. Thank you, Mayor. Um, as in regards to, you  know, the facilities not having enough space   for students, from my understanding, which  correct me if I'm wrong, um, Little Harbor   has had decreased enrollment. New Franklin and  Donda are kind of bursting at the seams. Um,   and then how how did redistricting play into  all of this? And what are the projected numbers,   you know, redistricting in the future? I'm  not really sure. I I I was left a little bit  

unclear as to how redistricting was enforced  and where we stand with that and how that will   affect things going forward when we're looking at  space constraints for students and staff. I'll let   school board member Matt who's whose hands have  been all over this uh answer that question. Uh I   think so. I think the short answer to that is if  you took the the blocks of neighborhoods that we   sought to move, one block of neighborhood from New  Franklin, two blocks from Derero to Little Harbor,   and you took all of the students that were in  those blocks and you moved them over in one year,   then the uh it would essentially I say fill  up Little Harbor uh in terms of the number of   classrooms. I think it was 23 number of classrooms  that we projected with the current enrollment   through the redistricting process. However, um it  became apparent that um you know the community was   uh you had serious trepidations about being forced  to move schools. So we built in a transition model   that would allow for um essentially grandfathering  uh of students. Um and there's a report, happy to   send you the report that shows the trend lines  over the next five, six, seven years to get to   that point where the schools will be balanced. The  downside of that, of course, is in the short term,   it doesn't feel like the problem is like  served overnight. Um however, it was a balance   of community input and those families and sort  of where we get to in those years based on the   projections we had had previously. Thank you. Can  I just add something to that? We recently voted   to have the new WHGB complex go to Little Harbor.  That is that should go to Dondiero, but the board   voted with those I I forget how many apartments  it is, 350 or something. Students from that less  

than 100. Oh, okay. Those students will not go to  Dondaro. They will go to Little Harbor. So, we're   always and with Byron's help, we're always looking  at the new developments to see if we can put them   in a different school. Yeah. And I I think it's  an interest just as like maybe a commentary on   when you get into uh individual class sizes at  the different schools. um and like hyperfocusing   on a class of 12 in one school or a class of  20 or in another and trying to overoptimize by   moving neighborhoods and not understanding like  where bubbles are and those things go through the   system. Um so I think that I think one of the  learnings that we had from the process was to   um not try and micromanage specific like perfect  equal distribution and understand that there's   going to be differences across the different  schools just by the nature of population. Any other questions? I guess I have one. Uh Kenny,  you've been standing up there. Great. Um Oh,   uh councelor uh Cook, but I'll um I think it  would be helpful um when we have it in the   CIP and we we kind of get it in the CIP and that  goes through your process. Um, unfortunately, we   have to weigh it against like all of the projects  within the city. And that's where it gets um it   gets difficult. And I I want to say that because  I don't think it necessarily gets worse for the   uh school department if we see a greater ability  to impact, you know, citizens of Portsouth,   albeit they're 18 and under, um with investments  that we make. We can be talking about the capital   improvement plan in a different way, but we need  to see like this is a like this is scheduled here   and it's a uh much more um critical and this  would be the impact to I know that we have in  

the the CIP pages, but to be able to write that  out a little bit more and to have a collaborative   conversation as we're doing now for um you know  potentially this year's CIP, but to understand   what that impact is so that we're able to balance  that impact against things that we could or   otherwise not do on the city decide if we think  that there's a better way to serve our residents,   our kids, our parents. Uh if we saw that  information, councelor Coop. Uh thank you, your   honor. I always have lots of questions. Sorry.  Um so, um I think one of the reasons that the new   Franklin project was a surprise this year is that  usually in our CIP items for larger projects, we   have a budget for design that comes a year or two  in advance. and we didn't have that element sheet   that had design in it. So, we didn't anticipate  that the program was coming. Um, and I I know you   mentioned that uh we'll be issuing an RFP soon for  the CTE program for design, but that's not in the   element sheet. Um, and even if it's coming out of  um the general out of your general fund budget,   one of the things that I think would be helpful  for me is to have it included, have that funding,   projected funding included because then we  can anticipate better. And so I'm asking kind   of what are the other things that maybe we're  not seeing here um that you're doing like we uh   when the police or the fire department when they  have to replace vehicles we have that goes in the   CIP budget so we'll see it and we'll see kind of  which part of the budget it's coming out of. Um so   vehicle replacement um I know the school we have  yeah we have that as well. It's a rolling stock.   Yes. So, um, just making sure that we have rolling  stock included, small repairs that maybe don't   seem, um, as critical, but maybe aren't included  here because they're coming out of operating   budget. Um, so that's kind of where I would like  to to maybe see a little bit more so that way when  

we're planning, we're not overlooking those  things. And I think it it's also incredibly   helpful um because the budgets are getting really  tight. operating budgets are going to be really   tough this year. And so, um, I'd like to think  that we're looking at the CIP really carefully   as a tool, um, because of our our AAA bond rating,  um, a tool to finance projects that we can finance   over time um, and have less of an impact on the  operating budget. Um, so it's more of a statement   than anything. No, and and I agree. I mean, we we  do look long-term capital role in stock. Um and   and I didn't mention earlier and and I thought Mr.  Taber would kind of comment on energy, but when we   look at all our projects as well, we do a full  energy analysis of LEDs, condensing boilers, how   do we reduce our carbon footprint? How do we lose  reducing our energy as well? I the city just did a   study, Peter Rice did one, I believe about a year  ago. We piggybacked that. We have a new updated   um report on what the high school potentially  can move down to and then also what the middle   school. Those are the tour schools that don't have  as much LED. And then we'll look at rebates coming   down the line from Eversource or Unito as well.  So we we want to as as managers or directors,   we want to make sure that when we do a project,  similar I talked to about Homeland Security   is we don't miss any unturned stone for grant  funding, free money, um whether it's local, state,   Washington DC as well. So we we want to make sure  that we're as efficient as we can to his project,   but we can look at those that data and try to  broaden that out as well. And I would just I would   just say I mean I think as we've worked through,  you know, thinking about what we're putting in   the CIP and we're thinking about what is hitting  those dollar amounts that, you know, we're getting   in that $50,000 range of of of projects and and  I think we try to articulate those things when   when they come. I think the diff one of one of  the places where it's a little bit a little bit  

different is in that that role kind of that annual  um the first of our is it the first first slide   the first slide and sometimes there's a there that  can be a lots of different things that might be   smaller that live in there um but we're always  open to being as transparent as we possibly can I guess I can ask one councelor Cook um I'm  going to ask the elephant in the room question   We're making major improvements to New Franklin  school, which are definitively needed. Um, but   there's always this question about the location  of New Franklin being extremely difficult,   surrounded by roadway, highways, noise that we  cannot address very easily that the state is not   going to address. Has there been discussion about  expanding Little Harbor and Dondo instead to take   on the student population because New Franklin  is so challenging of an environment? Kenny,   you I mean I can start. Uh I mean the  the if if the direction if we were to   make that change I mean we we assume that  that would not happen at Low Harbor because   there too many environmental issues there's  too much regulation too close to the water   uh and if we were going to make it makes if  it was going to be like some type of major   uh addition conceptually it makes sense that  Dandereo would be where some you know some   significant it would be the first place we would  look. Uh but uh um but that is what I I would say   uh I don't know there's not been a significant  costing out of that scenario but but when we   when we talk about it that's been that's been  in a discussion it wouldn't be Little Harbor   Little Harbor probably stay exactly the way  it is and we would Dundere will be the place.

Uh school member Meadow um the so um I think it's  just just one anecdote from the redistricting   um process was um that uh general concept I think  was something that um there was some uh casual   conversations with community members about like  that being a potential future. Um and something   that I think folks who are in New Franklin, have  kids in New Franklin know and that I learned was   like the deep sense of pride in the neighborhood  school um at that location. And I just wonder I   I definitely you know the assumptions around noise  and location being difficult I think are real from   the outside. Um but I don't know that that's felt  necessarily on the inside um at that location. So   I think it would be an interesting conversation  with the community as if to I mean because I think   it would be a larger investment you know knowing  nothing about that kind of respective on like what   that would look like now. I think it would be a  much larger investment that we're looking at now   and you have to weigh that against ultimately,  you know, um I think the kind of community   support for for doing that is is is my take.  Yeah, it seems not and I'm somewhat biased on   uh New Franklin. Um it would be very interesting  to see if building an entirely new, you know,   facility for cost per square foot would,  you know, we would be making up money on   uh demoing what we have at at New Franklin. That  seems like in order to to to get to that place,   it would be significant cost savings that we're  talking about reducing the amount of teachers and   expanding classroom sizes much larger than we  have right now. I'd also think that um and I'm   trying to be as unbiased uh as I can as somebody  that um is tied to the new Franklin School. Um but  

one question that I wanted to get to in terms of  facilities as uh councelor Hopkins and had been   a conversation that we'd had previously um on the  council after MC3, but how do we activate and use   our schools in partnership with um you know if the  city is uh is the um is the go-to for child care   um opportunities outside and we are the ones  that are working with um you know our SE coast   community schools because we understand that we  can't crowd them out that we need them in terms   of the pre you know the the very small toddlers  but looking at our facilities that I know are   you know I'm not talking about making them used  to the point of airports but in terms of before   school and after school um the fact that we have  three separate um elementary schools that is close   to many different folks seems like a positive  in terms of transportation um when it comes to   you know picking up your after. Would just like  to continue that conversation as we get further   down as we look at these capital assets as  city assets that are used by the school and   if there's a possibility to use them more to  bring more benefit through partnering with you   know the the private sector in terms of um child  care as well as you know potential funding that   would expand the opportunity that we see there.  just, you know, putting that out there. But, um,   that's part of the reason why we want to have this  conversation is look at the assets that we have   and how do we best um, utilize those assets going  going forward. Uh, or school board member CL. Um,   I just wanted to expand a little bit on what Byron  said. Um because not only is there a great amount   of pride in New Franklin school, but one of the  things and we have we have actually opened this   conversation several times over the years about  um consolidating the elementarymentaries and and  

one of the things we hear repeatedly from the  community is how important their neighborhood   schools are to them. And it's in fact a  reason that many people move to the city   um because they they can have a neighborhood.  They can many many of them walk and ride bikes   and that seems to be really valued by the  students and the families. So I I do think you   actually didn't propose but you offered that  as an option and it got some you know it got   very negative feedback from the community right  away. So, um, it is it is a conversation that   we've considered and I don't I think it would be  wise to look at the financial impact, but I think   it would have an impact on our community that  would be not what we are looking for. Stephen,   I just wanted to say the Portsouth schools have  performed very well and I suspect that part of the   reason for that is the small neighborhood schools  uh do make them able to be very effective and that   larger schools are more difficult to run and  you may not have the same level of achievement. Council Maro, I'm wondering in your conversations  around the energy efficiencies. We've gotten   letters from uh classroom of eighth graders every  year talking a lot about the different ways some   of our public buildings and a lot of the schools  could be used for solar. So I'm wondering if you   have explored any of those as a way long term as  we're thinking budgeting how we could actually   reduce utilities. Yes. So middle school for  instance has a solar reheat hot water system   on the roof. We help it re reduces probably 40%  of our hot water heat usage, our energy cost.   Dandereo and New Franklin have educational solar  purposes up there. So they have a 42 KVA panel   up there so they can actually see the energy  and growth. And as part of the high school,   we have two systems. We have a library has a  42 panel system that they did as an educational  

purpose. However, we also piggybacked in 2015 as  part of 2016 a grant that Marramac backed out. We   jumped in with with the water department as well  and did Mandbury treatment plant where we have a   262 panel KVA system on top of the high school.  Now, it's in a PPA agreement that we don't own,   but I believe in the next year or so based off  the contract, Peter Rice and I have been talking   about it where we almost have the right to buy  that contract out so we can then incorporate   those energy savings within us. So yes, we look  at solar. We also have when we look at solar,   we can't look at newer construction. We have to  look at the older construction of the buildings   as instance for the high school like the 1956  1960s. They were built for snow load. Now we   don't see that snow load. Yes, we have a kind of  an odd significant load of snow outside right now,   but we also have to look at how we can  structurally support that added weight on top   of the snow in an instance of 2015, we had that  crazy January where we spent roughly just under   $60,000 shoveling school roofs as the second floor  above the library did not see out their windows   due to a 12oot snow drop. So, we we do look at  solar, we look at our options, and we also have   to look at what we have for rooftop space versus  taking up ground space. Thank you. I had no idea,   Dr. McG I I want I have that information for  um councelor Bagley and I just wonder if it   was all right if I just kind of plug in that  on the SAU 50 agreement. Oh, sure. Yeah. So,   so in that agreement they pay the the current  costs, current expenses of the operation for   grades 9 through 12. So that includes instruction,  admin, so it's teachers, instructional materials,   administration, student support services, health  services, uh operation of the physical plant and   maintenance of the physical plant as part of uh  part of our costs. uh central uh central services  

uh are some of our costs that we we price out  for district level services, student activities,   uh teacher retirement, uh FICA, insurance, all  that stuff is built into our overall operational   costs. They uh they pay the students who are  on IEPs that are at the building. We have a   um we look at the overall cost of all all  students including including that. So,   our students are on IEPs, their students are on  IEPs, and then we come to a an ADM um the number,   you know, the average daily count of people in  the building, and we divide it and put it out. Oh,   there's also a we also charge a a 2% rental fee  for for students from those communities uh on the   depreciated value of the land, the buildings uh  and the equipment um the longstanding equipment   at uh the high school. So it is built in as part  of their agreement, part of the tuition that   they pay. Uh that is not something that that uh  those communities uh get for the maintenance and   operation of the buildings is not something that  those communities receive for free. Would it be   possible to get a copy of that? Yep. Absolutely.  Definitely. Would that include I didn't catch the   uh carrying cost of the bonded money? Uh I'll  I I'll I'll give you I'll give you the I'll   I'll give you the most up-to-date version and  I can't I can't answer that question right now. I think um obviously you guys are working hard on  area agreements, what that could mean with open   enrollment coming to the state of New Hampshire,  at least uh passing through uh the Senate. Um that   would be something that a um there's a lot of  people with a lot of questions on that. A lot   of people are incredibly uh concerned. It would  be great um not only to have that uh presentation   amongst the school board once you make a decision  on the path that you will take but we would love   Dr. Mclofflin if you could present that um to  the the city council as well. I don't want to  

put too much work. We might just uh watch your  if it's going to be a schoolboard meeting uh but   we want to make sure uh that that everybody knows  as much about that as possible and the potential   implications uh for that. Yeah, we we can do  some more work. I will say that the school board   um took a position at our last meeting uh in  relation to that. I don't believe you want   to speak to So we have been in conversation  with school boards around the state who are   almost universally opposed to this just for the  potential to induce chaos for lack of a better   word into our enrollment budgeting programming  because essentially we have the fixed costs.   We have a certain number of teachers and there's  nothing in this legislation that lets us have any   predictability. There's no caps on when students  might elect to go to a different district, how   long they have to stay, what happens if they come  back, how we pay for busing, how we handle special   education students. I mean, there's just so many  unknowns and black holes. It's almost impossible   to list them. So, we took a vote as a board  unanimously to oppose it and advocate against   it and conquer in the current form along with most  other school districts in the state. We I think   it's been signed now by over 500 schoolboard  members and superintendent from all around   New Hampshire. So, we'll see. But certainly um  excited to hear the advocacy. If it were to pass,   is there anything that we need to do in advance of  it passing in terms of policies, restrictions that   we would need to take under advisement before?  And again, I'm breaking the rules. This is this   is I'm tying it back in terms of buildings.  Um, but you know, in terms of building space,   um, is there anything that we need to uh or uh the  school department or the city needs to proactively   do in terms of if it were to Do you want to go?  I would say yes. And we're still trying to get   our arms around it. Some districts are having very  preliminary conversations right now about whether  

we might band together with other schools in the  region to adopt a certain approach to this that   might protect our predictability and enrollment.  But that's not a conversation that we've had as a   board or as a community. There are some districts  that are looking at, for example, setting the   number of students they will accept and the number  of students they will allow to leave at zero,   which would hypothetically neutralize this. But  that's not a conversation that we've had. We're   also not clear legally whether the legislation  in its final form will allow that approach. Um   so we're having conversations in our policy  committee and it's something that we're going   to need to figure out because it might be with  us by July. And I I think the the inability to   predict exactly the form that it would come  in could have issues. The big one for us,   one of the big ones for us in terms of our greater  school community could be that we have existing   area agreement with SEU50 where they're going to  pay 100% of the of the costs per head that we just   talked about where potentially depending on the  version of the bill citizens from any community   could send a kid to us for 80%. uh our agreements  with those communities are binding without a vote   of all the each of the different communities to  end the agreement. Um, but what so then do you   have are we do we end up charging SEU50 families  more than we're charging other families coming in   to our system from somewhere else and or do those  families have the opportunity to say well I'm as   a citizen I'm choosing to send my kid there not  through the area agreement but through this other   um through this other mechanism and the state  can't explain right now how those things work   together. Um, so, you know, that's concerning  for us. It's concerning for SCU50. Um, and,   uh, to try to map out those types of things when  the state hasn't done the work to understand what  

the ripple effect is of this potential move is is  challenging. So, and to circle back to councelor   Bagley's question on tuition, the last version of  this bill that I saw would mean that the sending   district is paying their per pupil costs. So if  you have your fixed cost stay the same and you   lose 20 kids, your cost per pupil goes up. So that  can start to very quickly be a death spiral for   whichever schools start to lose students. So it's  a bit of a mess. All right, we went farfield. It   was my fault. Um any other um questions uh while  we have the school board here? Hey Brian or a   school board member French, I'll stay on task if  you want, but um uh yeah, just I I think another   thing that um maybe not all the counselors know,  but we do track um enrollment projected enrollment   data through NASDAQ and every year that we've  been looking at it has been basically creeping   down a little bit. Um but for the first time it's  actually leveled out. So the projections are flat   uh for the next 10 years. So and that's not that's  not taking account all the the building that's   going on but it's more it's based around bursts.  So um and it's been traditionally correct. So at   the very least I do think at least our population  when we talk about our buildings um the the   enrollment data uh projected is flat. So, um,  I just want to let let everybody know that one. Thanks, Brian. Nancy, um, I, you know, I've been  around for a long time, but I remember when we   did the renovation at the high school, the state  building aid was, I can't remember the percentage,   but then when we did our middle school,  the state building aid was was there. So,  

and again, I can't remember what the percentage  was, but there was state money to help with the   renovations of those schools. You all know what  the state building aid is now, a big fat zero. So,   just to give you some history of what it was like  when we had some money coming in from the state.   School board member Ma, thank you. Um coming back  maybe to a little bit on on the framing of the   of the work session which is sort of getting a  better understanding and transparency around CIP   projects in the school. I think something that  I struggle with is the presentations are good   um and like in the moment I think it's a good  representation of where we are with projects.   I think just a gentle nudge I think on like a  more live sort of living source of truth on the   projects that are going on at the school so in the  school department so us at the school board level   counselors as well and just the general public  can maybe have a more active way to understand   the current progress of those things um even at  a high level it's a great idea yeah and maybe in   terms of project page I don't know if there are  project pages but we have that for infrastructure   projects to have that might be helpful and again  you know there's heightened there's always a focus   on delivering as efficient as we can in terms of  the capital I think uh the capital projects there   is a a we are now in you know a 3% inflation roll  in cola that's looking back which is different   than what we had you know for the first you know  if we look at the last 10 years um we've grown at   4% in terms of our overall budget year after year  averaged out but for the first six of those years   it was about actual above inflation by about  1%. Now for the last four years, we're about a   quarter percent below inflation. And so it's the  still the same increase. And so we need to have  

um as much efficiencies as we can and especially  when it comes to capital projects to be able to   know where we're going to get the biggest bang for  our buck. And I mean that as as um you know not   just as a as a parent um you know thinking about  um the investments that we make in our education,   but it's half of the you know it's half of the  budget. And so if we can be as efficient as   possible with that, it might mean crowding out  some of the other uh things that we would like   to do but can't afford to do on the city side.  And so that's why, you know, collaboration isn't   simply about saying guys got to do a better job  telling us what's going on. It's to try to figure   out collectively for the city how are we meeting  that moment better for more people knowing that   we value education in this community and we also  value doing things ahead of the times that they   are actually critical falling down like we really  don't want things to get and pushed off and that's   the the the luxury that we've had of the councils  and school boards that have come before us. So,   we've made investments at a time when it was more  cost-effective to do so than, you know, as a as a   a band-aid, you know, and less disruptive. Uh, my  sister was at the middle school in one of those   reserv renovations and they just went half the  year, you know, because they didn't they didn't   have like it wasn't the summertime. They just  said, "All right, you got, you know, you got half   a half a school year here." And so, I know that  that's, you know, obviously we got to we got to   meet the moment a little better um than that. And  that's what the the genesis of this conversation   is. Councelor Cook. Uh thank you, your honor.  And I want to follow up to what I asked about New   Franklin School. Um that's really what started my  whole questioning about um process and CIP budget   on this. And and part of the reasoning is the  location of New Franklin being difficult. And   um we're going through an extensive process at the  city to try to make decisions about the municipal   building project. and we looked at other sites for  a potential police facility. Um, I just want to   make sure that we're doing all that due diligence  on the school side as well. You know, have we  

talked about potential, I hate to even say this  out loud, other sites for New Franklin school,   you know, before we invest a huge amount of  money in New Franklin. There's some lovely fields   behind the right aid on Woodbury Avenue, which we  talked about for a municipal building project that   is just down the road from New Franklin school  that's not surrounded by highways. And you know,   did we look at all the possibilities? Because  when we're making these kinds of investments,   we want them to be long-term investments in our  schools and we want what's best for the students.   So, so that's really why I asked that question.  I want to make sure that when we are planning,   we're making uh a a strong effort to do  what's best in the long run. Um not putting   band-aids on things because that's all we can  afford right now. Thank you, Councelor Cook. Let me just to answer that question. I mean,  we we have not I think Kenny talked I think   the way Kenny talked about it before, I think he  said, you know, we build hundred-year buildings.   um because of the because of the cost. We just  keep renovating. So I think the our assumption   has been that um since I've been here, I don't  know what the conversation was before me is that   the cost of building a new school is is so  prohibitive that it would not be, you know,   that the cost of the taxpayer would be exorbitant  and and not something that people would be looking   to do. So So we haven't had that. There's been  no um there's been no new new new Franklin school   conversation since since I've been around. So  I mean middle school we did middle school we   explored a lot of different whether it's the um  ash dump off Jones a I think there's some property   out towards um unitail or aversurus all the way up  back on the Gaza. So we did look at that broading   piece. However, when you get back into the  neighborhood school piece you look in renovation  

cost versus construction cost. Yes, we're asking  for 13 million now plus the other five or so we   put in a new education elementary school right  now is going to process roughly probably60 to   $75,000 just because of the market value coming  out of co the cost of construction as you're going   to see as we you said you're looking at the city  hall municipality complex it's just gonna it's   going to skyrocket so as right now we believe  mean 60 60 70 million million sorry yes million   sorry 60 70,000 we're we're in we'll do that  deal today Kenny Uh sorry million but but being   said that this is where we believe it's the best  bang for the city,000. I'll buy been a long day   long week. Councelor Block. Thank you honor. Um I  attended Dandereo School but so I'm not as biased   towards New Franklin. However, I do live in a New  Franklin neighborhood. Um and my neighbors are all   very proud to bring their kids to New Franklin  school. Um, I've also learned after four years   being on the HGC that new construction always  costs more than an addition or renovation. Um,   you know, you're dealing with you got  bones, you got something to work with. Um,   so whenever you start from scratch, it's going to  be more expensive. U, but I think that the pride   um of the New England parents and students um  I know the mayor attended New Franklin. Um, so   um but I think I think that would um that pride's  very strong. But that aside, I guess like you know   I try to be as objective as possible. If there  were numbers, I'm just I would be hesitant to   understand what those numbers would be for an  entirely new construction build versus expanding   this out when, you know, in terms of the folks  that are in there, you know, the highway noise   uh sucks, but we have uh or is not ideal. Um it's  uh but in terms of the HVAC um changes that were   made um allows you know you don't have to open the  windows as much um to to cool it or to to heat it   or to when it's heated to let it out you know like  so there's been some um significant improvements  

there but just from a a dollars and cents  standpoint you know if there was rough math on   that that you could share but the 65 to 75 million  that number is um I think is it's difficult to to   do something that is um right now looked at as you  know a lot of people including myself love it. Um   but if we you know have to if we have to look at  everything uh we will but that's not something at   the moment that I I see as a as a huge priority.  Um, and I know that it's going to be it would be   um it would be a difficult conversation at best  to have that conversation and I think it could   distract from the other things that we need to get  done um as uh you know as a city as a school board   that are certainly higher uh that that might have  a generally higher impact for west disruption in   terms of what our what your meetings uh would  be and then our meetings after that. Any other   questions? We have public comment, so we can get  to that if there's none. All right, we'll open up.   Thank you again, Ken. That was great. Thank you,  Kenny. Any um anybody rising for public comment. See, oh, I don't see where the Zoom is.  Seeing none on Zoom. I was like looking at   uh where I was like, oh, I look at there's no  there's no Zoom on there. Okay. Well, um I I   think that this was a there's a lot in the capital  stuff. Obviously, we scheduled this before knowing   um about some of the healthc care um costs that  we're running into, operating budgets. I know   that you guys are far along in your budget. would  like to have this conversation you know in terms   of operating costs again and to share it as as  collaboratively I think as as the tone was here   to try to find you know the solutions that we need  knowing that it's a difficult you know situation  

that that we face because of things that you know  while unanticipated not in our control um at the   moment we're still going to have to deal with them  so hopefully um this is a good first step in terms   of understanding this and our desire to better  understand this long term and then be able to   with that information incorporate it better into  our capital plan. So it's not just hey you know as   we did with the uh the the playgrounds there was  a ground swell for that we saw there was a way   to include those in terms of you know the city's  capital plan want to take that same approach when   it comes to our building uh facilities and  again understand how do we use those assets   as best we can uh throughout the entire city.  But with that I just want to thank you uh for   being here uh this evening and for the questions  and for the uh the the preparation in this. It   really was helpful to see all of that. Um, and  well overdue in terms of our ask to you. So,   thank you, Councelor Cook, for putting that  out there. I think it's uh it's valuable.   All right, we don't actually have to uh motion  or anything, so we'll just Good night, Portsmith.