Development Review Committee - Regular Meeting

All [Music] right, we're all here. Thank you for your patience. I'll call the meeting to order. It's uh 9:04 a.m. Looks like we got landscaping on our agendas today. So, first case, case UV 202562, Homebased Properties, Inc. Sheriff Mike Krillley 1050 North Chesterton, Indiana 46304 in Liberty Township. Zoning currently is rural residential RR 4.27 acres. This is an informal review allow landscaping supply yard mulch production operation including outdoor storage equipment materials. We have a representative. Please come sit. State your name and address and request

right here. this table right here and pull the microphone up too. My apologies. That's all right. [Music] Thank you, Larry. Hello. Michael. Michael, your address, please. 405 Drive. Okay. And what are you requesting? uh to get a variance to the zoning for the 1050 property to allow landscape material multist distribution recycling facility. And what is the land used for now? Rural residential. So there's just a house on the property already. There's actually nothing on the property.

So it's a vacant piece of property. It's been a vacant piece of property for I mean essentially 40 plus years. Okay. Very good. What we're going to do, we're going to ask each of the staff members on the board to Mike ask question. Yes, sir. Is is can I ask a question? Sure. Is this is not the property that they've been filling on? Is this that piece of property on the south side? It is. So that you've been filling in that property? Yes. Okay. Was this a mine before?

No. No, it was flat property. it. I just went by it and was surprised cuz I thought there was water spinning on there at one time and it was when he said there was nothing going on. I wanted to make sure there's no right property. There's no home or barns or anything. No, there's no structures on this property. But you have been filming. Yes. And how long has that been going on? uh two months but not daily, not consistently. Just putting a parking pad. Okay, we'll get to that.

David, while we do staff will ask you some questions. Okay. Um a couple preliminary questions here. Um are you currently uh performing this operation on the site right now? Yes. And um what what I'm sorry the operation of Are you currently are you currently running the business on the property right now? No. No, there's no business but you're preparing for it. Trying to be prepared for. Okay.

Um how uh did you how did how are you before us today? Did um did the county come to you? Did a complaint come in? Um did you know that you needed to apply for uh you know to apply for this use variance? What's the background there? been working on applying for it for I mean essentially since beginning of the year. Um trying to fill out forms and have an attorney take care of things. Okay.

Um not trying to get operational until I have any variance, but trying to if I can't do this with the property, it needs to be able to do something with it. So I've, you know, applied for permit, driveway, you know, all of that. So I have access to the property to get in and at least clean it up, make it more presentable and high school. Correct. And and the the question isn't I'm not trying to play like God or anything. A lot of times people are here because um they were already doing something and then by knowing how they came before us kind of gives an indication as to you know is this operate kind of nuisance to the community or

right I have I have equipment there but I'm not operating any form of a business out of it. It's more cleaning up the land right now. You know trying to keep the grass off front clean and just make it a more presentable. Okay. So regardless if I get told no I can't do this and still rather be able to functionally use the land and figure out what to do with it correct the long term I believe I read in your notes that um it said that you didn't have any permanent structures proposed as part of your longterm is your long-term vision for this longterm I would like to put in a barn and I believe that was put in there but it wasn't

oh I thought there was a note that said there was no building and there were no buildings for booze. In the file I have, David, it does show locations for post bares in the future. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was confused by that because when I when I read the description of what was what you were looking to do, I was surprised when I saw the note that um since there are no permanent buildings proposed at this time, at this time right now, but if you get the variance, you will have

uh yes and no. If I get the variance, I would like to at some point, but I also need to make put it out. So, it's not a I mean, often I think it would also add those are all make the land more collectively on there. It's not a it's not going to happen. I'm not going to come back and ask for that anytime soon.

I just bring it up because um in the review that I do would be largely based on the way that the site was drained. So when people come in and they shake land and they improve it and they do something to it can cause drainage issues. So that's something that reviewed in in a future submitt that you would put into the county reflective of how you plan on changing the impervious nature of the um of the ground cover.

Understood. Um can you kind of walk us through I know that this is going to be something that a lot of folks will want to speak to and address. Um, can you kind of describe the operation if if if this were to go through, what would an average day Monday through Friday or weekend as well? Like for the surrounding community, what would an average day look like and sound like on this property? Are there going to be, you know, trucks showing up at, you know, 3:00 a.m.? Um, is there going to be a Is there going to I think you said that you were actually producing product on the site as well. So there would be recycling the material um wood chips, trees, you know, landscapers. So nothing would be being delivered during off hours.

Okay. um at most during the bulb season. So, April through June, July, you know, landscapers are wanting to pick up earlier, potentially have loading, you know, 7:00 a.m., but nothing nothing crazy. Um, but you will be running a chipper or shredder on your

It would be a tub grinder and then again that would be during normal business hour operation. Um, okay. Hopefully, you know, Monday and it wouldn't be every day. You typically want a stockpile of that material so that when you're running it, you're being effective at burning fuel for minimal return. So not every day that need [Music] and then I believe that you had indicated that you would be have that you would be proposing uh visual buffers for the property. Correct. Okay.

Um again trying to clean up what's by the street right now. You know, I like I said, cleaning up the garbage, but making them more visually appealing with nicer looking trees, bushes, not just overgrown, invasive. Okay. So, yeah, those are just some questions that I know those are the types of questions that would be of impact to the surrounding neighborhood. Um, and then again, if if you were to get a use variance, we would um we would communicate after that point about um you know, the design that you would actually putting on the site and to make sure that it didn't create um drainage issues for your both yourself and downstream folks. Yeah, that's all I have at this time.

Maybe David, one other thing before we go to stand. He mentioned earlier that he they're filling on site that give you cause for cause from a stormwater perspective. Yeah, that's a good can you kind of walk me through a bit more like what what are you currently doing? Uh right now the northeast corner of the property that up to the neighbor's property um just putting in a parking pad there and then essentially the rest of it just been mowing and cutting down. Yeah. So, um, what is the current what is the current drainage there at that uh portion where where you're putting the parking pad in? Is there a culvert? Is there a swale there?

There there is a I mean I'm I'm behind definitely behind the offset um by 20 20 to 30 ft. Um there is a version of a swale by the road road was built up higher than than the property all the properties which obviously makes sense not flowing out so I understand that um the again permit for the driveway was put in and a cer pipe was put in under the driveway larger diameter than okay

and you said that was permitted the driveway the Yeah, I mean I applied for it a few months ago and went back in and tried to get a receipt and had to give another check. So that my first check. So yeah. Okay. Definitely making sure I actually met uh Mike I can't remember the the gentleman's name um out there to discuss the placement of and and size and diameter with him. Correct. I would just say be be cautious with any other work that you're doing that you're not putting some, you know, you're not putting material down somewhere that's um impacting drainage. We we've had some pretty significant rain events over the last few weeks. So, if you've been out there doing it, if you start to notice, you know, standing water, ponding water, um you know, something that you want to be looking out for,

right? Understood. Yep. that they expand. Uh so on your application, you said there's going to be employees out there. Um what is the plan for restroom facilities, that kind of stuff, any kind of wastewater generation? Where is that? So as of right now, don't know what the plan is yet. I'm trying to figure out what I would do once I get approval. Um

okay. Ultimately, if it requires putting in a well and and building some sort, fine. Uh if not, continuously between I guess either the attorney or whatever department to speak with to make it approve. Well, that would that would be my I want the health department. Okay.

So, we have jurisdiction over septic systems and and all that. So, um, if you're going to do a septic system, uh, you need to get soil warnings and because this is non-residential, it's going to have to go through the Indiana Department of Health for specking. And so, um, the soil borings would get sent to the state. State would have us do an on-site. We would go out and do the on-site for the state. We would send them our findings. They would give you specs and then um on what would have to go there in terms of a design or if a septic could go there

um and it would tell you like the size of the system. Does it need drainage? Where does how deep is the drainage? Drainage has to flow by gravity and how wet to daylight on this property. I don't know if that's doable. Um, you know, so that would all have to go through the state for specking and then depending on the size of the system, either the state or us here locally would do the review of site plan and then we would issue the permit locally and we would do the inspection on the system. Um, so if you're going to have a bathroom there, um, with sink and so people can wash up your employees and use the restroom, that's going to have to go into a septic system. Um, the state does now allow for if you couldn't get a field in, the state does allow for permanent holding tanks, okay,

on commercial and residential. Now, you still have to go through the state to get approval for that, but um and there's some other things that go along with that. You have to have a contract with a licensed wastewater hauler that has to be on file with us. And every time you have the tank pumped, you have to submit those pumping receipts to the health department um for the life of you using that holding tank.

Yeah. So, um, that's a potential option or porta johns are always an option. There's not really a lot of regulation on portag johns. It's just they can't create a public health issue. So, you they can't get dumped over like if a storm blows through and everything. You got to maintain them and stuff like that. So, um I guess once you kind of get an idea, you know, okay, come see me. Um would it be impossible to get like your contact info? Yeah, I can give it to you. Yeah.

And then um you know just contact me and I can kind of walk you through the process once you you know if you do get the approval if you decide hey I want to try to do a septic or something. I can kind of walk you through that process and point you in the right direction. But there would have to be some kind of wastewater disposal on the property if you're going to have a restroom and stuff. I think pardon my ignorance in this but I I don't know you know does the course come before the chart the chart before the course like what do I have to do first or second so trying to get all of this in place I don't know if I need to get the variance first or if I need to have all the answers first so I apologize for not

well you would the the BCA is going to ask you those questions and you're going to make a commitment to those okay so in order before you appear BCA my suggest testing to you is they have no answers. Correct. That does that mean you got 10 thousands and thousands of dollars in engineering. They might be satisfied with you making that commitment which will be part of that approval if they so planning to give it to you. Okay. But you got to be prepared for it. That's a business decision you're going to have to make.

Okay. Okay. Be aware as well with um Dan referring to your septic system that um especially given the nature of what you're doing that area um the area where the system would go in a certain radius around it would be off limit to doing things like you know you won't be able to stockpile thousands of pounds on top of it wherever that would would be would if I don't know if any of the the drawings were given to you guys but that would be one of the green areas, you know, specifically. So, grass over

just so you're aware. So, the area where if you're going to get a field in there, it has to be untouched natural soil. You can't fill it in. You can't disturb it. Um, you know, it's got to be untouched. Uh, I I proposed like retention areas on here. Um, you have to be a certain set distance away from those with the septic code. Um, you got to be 10 ft from structures. That includes parking areas. You got to be uh 5 ft from property lines, 50 ft from wells, all that. So, all that separation distance is well, it'd be 100 ft from wells for you because it's it's non-residential. Okay.

Um so, you know, wherever your well goes, 100 ft away from that is where your field will be. It have to be outside of that 100t radius. So, these are things to like kind of start thinking about and I'll give you my contact info like when we're done here and I will um and if you want to set an appointment, come in and kind of talk to me, I can kind of sit down and kind of go over all this with you. Um, you know, in my office downstairs. So, all right. You probably want to actually even like around the site like close off the area because you're going to have, you know, trucks showing up to deliver things and there's nothing they love more than to accidentally dump something where it shouldn't go. Right. Completely understand what you're saying there. Very good. Anything else? That's all I have for Kevin.

Yeah. Let me just begin with Do you live proximate to this parcel or No, I live in Bel.

Okay. So, do you have a relative or somebody that lives around here? Why this piece of land? Uh this land was originally purchased uh by a relative for a different use and then they went a different direction with it. So it's it's in a good location um for it. It's not surrounded by neighborhoods. It's surrounded by other businesses um doing similar work. Um it's a decent size. What I'm going to suggest is you identify those other businesses that you say are similar for the trust of the board uh at BCA as Mike has said that uh you're here just to get an understanding of what that board may ask you and what their desires are and what our concerns are from the technical standpoint. Uh starting off with the septic field, considering how wet it is in this area, I suspect that you're going to have to have some sort of this drainage that requires a gravity outflow wall.

Yeah, that that's going to need to be designed. And I'm not too optimistic that that that's why I brought up the holding tank option because kind of knowing that area. I mean, he can get soil borings and he can see if there's somewhere on the property to do it, but if there's not, he might have to fall back and do the permanent holding tank option where he just pumps it out indefinitely. And that a pump and hall will be up to the state. It's discouraged. Uh it's I'm not too optimistic, but that's their decision. Well, it's allowed now. It it was it was passed. So, but he would still have to get approval through the state. He would have to get an approval letter through them that says, "Yeah, you can do a holding tank here." And this is the criteria they have to meet for that holding tank. You could also do chemical toilets.

Yeah. Like Port Jones. Yeah.

Temporary. Um with permission of the state of course with the ECA. Um going back to the uh issue of the ground itself, I would suggest that you need some kind of development plan to come back to the uh particularly this port because uh it should include the soils, any potential wetlands uh that information as well as your access. But as Mike said, hold off until you see BCA so you know what they're going to say before you start making large investment. Hopefully you haven't uh done so much excavation that you uh cause problems for your plan particularly with a septic field. Um access is another thing uh you're going to have to talk to Bob about. uh your uh access to the county highway and the design for that. Uh it's it seems to me it's relatively flat here and trying to figure out uh how you your flow. Are you going to have customers come to this site?

I mean yes. That would be the goal would be landscapers and owners coming. You're not a landscaper yourself. No. This is to supply materials correct to landscapers. So if I might sure not just landscape companies but me as Joe Q says and can come and buy material. Yes sir. Thank you. Cuz we need to gauge how many visitors are coming to the site and how it's impacting the surrounding neighborhood as well. Are you going to have lights out here? Lighting. security lighting.

Uh again, if it was required, sure. Um well, our our concern more is a nuisance to the neighborhood. Okay. Fugitive lighting, I think. Uh most people with businesses want some kind of security lighting for protection. How's a business or is something that DC will bring up? Also, are you going to have limitations? Are you planning on having signage on the site? Uh, not initially. No. Um, ever eventually? Yeah.

Then that's something that you'll be discussing with PCA and probably have requirements for certain variances. Um, I think that'll do that for the time being. Thank you, Kevin. Mark, um yeah, to follow up on what uh Kevin was saying for access from the county highway. Um I I do see applied for your permit um back in April. That was under a residential application. So, uh if it's going to be commercial use, that require a new driveway permit meeting current standards.

Okay. Um, you said you upsized the culver that was going under. You showed you showed a 12 in on your permit application. What did you install? Uh, 16, I believe. Okay. All right. 15 or 18. 15. Okay. Yeah. 15 or 18. Okay. If I may, what material did you use? Okay. Uh, metal or plastic? Metal. If you're going to have heavy trucks going over that, you might want to upgrade to ductal iron or concrete. Okay.

Because uh corrugated, whether it's plastic or steel, okay, deforms, it crushes because you're going to be possibly looking at some heavier weight. particularly I assume you're going to have also landscaping stone or blockhawk available.

Uh I I don't really want to get into block or um like papavers or anything of that nature. Just stone paper base decorative, you know, river rock, pebbles, things like that. Um and and sand. So you really don't want to deal with pallet. Yeah. Yeah. You have to have adequate cover on top of it if you were going to use CN, but it's a pretty shallow area as far as that soil goes. I imagine it isn't very shallow soil, right? So I I'd agree, Mr. Bryky, that most likely reinforce concrete pipe will be your best.

Okay. [Music]

Furthermore, I had a just kind of going through your application. And this is is something I'm curious on. Um the question was can the property be reasonably used for any purpose permitted in the zoning district without the use for experience? You said no. Can you tell me why it couldn't be used as a residential property? I mean based off what has been said earlier in this meeting and and the potential inability for the septic to go in. seems like it would be a lot harder to turn it into residential based off that. Um, nothing else around it is residential or has been residential for the entire duration of its documented existence. Um, [Music] there are no other homes on this side. Uh, and with any potential of a uh, I know it's been shot down, but any potential of a data center or something of of that nature going in across where prostate golf course needs to be. Um, I mean, it seems like it's already shot down the desire to go, you know, as a prostate, it didn't work out uh, residential. So, it doesn't seem like this would be, you know, transformed into any residential any kind soon, if at all. So to me, this would be putting in something else that matches well other establishments that have, you know, went up, including the Animal Hospital on 1050. Um, and then obviously farther down, there's there's more commercial going farther west. Um, so obviously I'm not going to say it could never be residential, but it hasn't been

turned residential and it's really residential. Was the is the septic prohibited for residential in the same way that prohibited for commercial? So yeah, I mean if there's a shallow water hill there and he has nowhere to get a perimeter drain outlet by gravity and out and and flow to daylight, then we're not going to give him a permit because the code says because there's a shallow water table, you need a drain and it has to flow by gravity and outlet to daylight. So if he can't physically get an a drain outlet, then we would say that site is unsuitable for a septic system. Right. And that's the same for commercial or residential.

Yes. But because a couple years ago, the state allows for permanent holding tanks on residential and commercial. Now that gives them potential another option because you don't need drainage for a holding tank, which is the same for both commercial. Commercial and resial. It's not prohibitive from that standpoint to do residential, right? But who wants to pump out a tank for the entire that's living in a house 24/7, 365 days a year and have to pump a tank out like three times a week at a cost. It's going to be cost prohibitive. for residential. What's that business for porcelain using? What the pumping? So the porcing. Yeah,

it would be us. Um, so he would have to provide pumping receipts every time it's pumped. And if we check when we check and my goal is to have operating permits for all these permanent holding tanks where they have to renew it every so many years. And um, I just don't have that in place yet, but I do have it. I' I've started working on that, but it would be something that would have to be renewed every year. And if they're not submitting um the pumping receipts as part of that, well, even if I don't have the operate operating permit, if they're not submitting pumping receipts, that's considered a a violation. And so, we would send them a complaint letter. They would have to provide us with pumping. And if they're not pumping, we would have them vacate the property essentially. We would do like a vacate order, a health officer's order um until they do that. South. Hey Mark.

Yeah. Going back to your line of questioning, you know, I'm looking at chapter 2 for RR permitted uses. It's not just housing. It's a whole multitude of agricultural uses that are also permitted. Absolutely. To answer your question, yeah, maybe it's not suitable for a house for maybe those reasons, but it's still suitable for all these agricultural purposes. Right. Irrespective of the subject. Where where is the site in proximity? You mentioned Deosci where where in proximity or how close is this led to directly excel right? Yes sir.

Um you said that that area had with with the the data center being shut down it has no leanings towards residential usage. Well I it with the data center in mind it didn't okay. I just I just want to point out I don't know if this is relevant to the discussion or not but the um myself and another engineer in the county got invited to I don't know the date yet but um there is a pre-application meeting going on with the town of Chesterton that um the county has been invited to for a very substantial uh residential subdivision being built on the Deoxy uh course

um very substantial. So again, I haven't I haven't seen it yet, but we were in the town of Chesterton reached out to say that there is an applicant coming in for a very substantial submitt for that area and it's going to be um residential subdivision is what's currently being proposed about about 500 units. I I would then say that I am still this this property is at the very end of um Mineral Spring Road. So it's still a quarter mile from the Brazier entrance. So it's not close from a sound decible level but from a communities of landscape material and beautifification of the you know development. um you know, homeowners doing work. You know, obviously homes get built, they have a budget, and then over time they progressively improve. You know, adding lens, increase in home value. It would I I think the benefits of convenience to go pick it up and do that weekend project or have it delivered and do that weekend project would create greater benefit for the community than nothing being on the land and you know lacking there for short homeowners.

Yeah. And then again that I I only bring I only brought that up said that you know hey there you know there's there's nothing there. interesting thing isn't going there but like there are plans there you know there are there are okay and I again didn't know that there are potential future expansions nothing has been done for handful of years on that site well it might work well to have that to support any anything going on in the neighborhood you might be asked why this site why not get get a commercial site in that area if that's what you're interested in doing why this one is the questions going to be coming And and again, I I are you looking for an answer or just I think you're aware of that. I mean,

you're probably going to be asking question. Um you said that uh the use and value of the area adjacent to the property including the variance will not be affected in a substantially adverse manner because and one of the things you said the traffic will be managed to avoid impact on neighboring residential parcels. What's the what's the traffic that you're managing and how are you going to be managing them? Um, I mean, right now the there there are two roads that Mineral Springs kind of dead ends not into the property, but corner of the property. There's already a stop sign there. Um, it's a not heavily traveled area, but it's a main road to connect um 149 essentially to 49. So in terms of uh vehicle traffic and whatnot, putting in any required entrance exit um you know going through talking to and saying okay if I have to put in a second one exit one entrance or anything of that nature then I I would do that. Um but cleaning up the bushes, making it high visibility so people can obviously safely enter it would be you know top priority.

Okay. Um yeah having the commercial drive is going to affect having 24T is a minimum width for a commercial drive. Okay. So that's two lanes of traffic. So going in and going out. Okay. [Music] I think that's all that I have. Yeah. Thank you, Mark. Rich, do you have any further? No, I shared some pictures. Yeah, thank you. Um,

I guess I had one more question about containment of materials because you're stockpiling loose materials. You're going to have concrete bins or some kind of fencing to sort your materials. So, what design are you looking at?

The holding areas would be the goal would be to do concrete bins um concrete 2x 2x6 concrete blocks creating storage bins um again in the front north east corner of the property. so people can see it from the street. Um the back part of the property would be where the recycling would actually take place with the grinder and that would be more of a open concept so that the material is able to be properly stored and flipped um you know during the course of the year to make it a product that is desired for home owners and business owners. So the the back of the property would be a you know larger piles um not necessarily high but be longer and then the front would be storage with concrete blocks.

Okay. And this is really more for rich with these MS4 with concrete wash out if you're constructing materials and you're going to have concrete trucks there. No trucks. in the beans. No, no, not for your purpose of the business, but for construction of the bins themselves. [Music] Those bin blocks are pre-cast. Well, if he uses block, I heard kind of both. But you got to decide what you're going to do. No, block 2x2 by 600 block. Okay. You will use those. No mort.

So again, that would be uh you know ideally how how high would I be required to put it? What would you know is preferred? I'm not trying to I'm not trying to do anything wrong. I'm trying to make sure that what I'm putting in is hey this is more visually appealing than not is providing benefit. So if it's hey you need to go too high all right two you need to go three or three. Yeah. This is up view, but a lot of times what we do is put footings under those walls. And there again, there's concrete floor, but it's just something to think about. We're we're just bringing up questions that somebody else may bring up that you just need to be aware of.

Understood. And I mean, I did not say to think about any asking about putting this in. Um, I know typically if you go to any of the strip malls during the winter, people are using those same blocks on on you know asphalt or concrete to use to store their solvent. So the same same concept as as those mobile setups, if you will. I mean it's the same block. It's the same design um just put on ground level. So no different then also barriers.

Those are mostly temporary and yet you're doing something that I think they're going to be there for a longer period of time. I mean that is also the standard for the industry of using those blocks. Right. So if if it was hey you do need to put in a you know more they do have like you said the keyway and you know the ability to lock them together here again just something to think about understood we don't need answers

y [Music] um so parents today is just informal to prepare you for when you go in front of the BCA. After listening to the questions asked and the responses, I think watching the BCA, I think you better be prepared for the for your presentation to address some of the following issues. One is certainly the sanitary and the water issue, whether or not you're going to use temporary holding tanks of any kind. Of course, that'll be subject to any kind of reviews of any agency. Certainly, storm water is going to come up. This is all lowlying area and pretty flat out here. So, they're going to be concerned about the runoff of the water, the maintaining of the runoff. You talk about that you're going to be a business for landscapers come get materials as well as individuals such as a regular citizen to come and go and get this. So traffic is certainly going to be a concern and a question asked of the ECA. I think pollution and noise. I think you're going to have to address those as well. You say you're running a chipping or grinding business, especially when you're dealing with dry materials. You're going to be putting a lot of dust up in the air and things like that. Plus the noise of those operations. I think you need to uh make sure you address those. Hours of operation. That's that's a real big one is I always see the BCA get into because you got to be compatible with your surrounding neighbors which does bring up compatibility with the surrounding properties. Now fortunate for you two properties immediately to your west and one to the south there are no houses there parcels like that with small structures. That's

correct. And the properties to the um property to the north is farm field. Uh before you even get to the Rossier property to the northwest is wooded area that from my understanding cannot be built on or at least not as subject. So those are things that I think in your presentation to address. Okay. They're going to be concerned about compatibility concern properties which then leads to a buffer not only for site but for sound because I think you're going to be a noise generator with chippers and brands going on. Now being this is going to be a commercial enterprise on a rural residential, I don't think that precludes you from turning in site development plan before you get your final approvals. So, as David suggested, you would have to address things such as storm water and address what the the county highway engineers said as far as driveways and things like that. Those will have to be addressed in a formal site development plan provided that you get BCA approved. So, again, no need to spend money on engineering at this time that that will probably be a point. Then lastly, you're talking, you know, it's kind of interesting. You're you're doing all this stuff. There's no cover for the employees during the inclement weather or anything. I would think that you're going to be wanting to put structures on there very soon. Is that correct?

I mean also the the weather landscape is not working. Sure. Weren't working. Okay. I just think if you had employees, you always got to have no understood. I mean I totally understand. Right now there's also you know until it gets going with the employees which would be but eventually a structure is in your plans correct

yes and at which time I remind you that we don't allow on our our zone property structures without a residential on it so you'd be facing other variances if that time so from my understanding if this continues rather than continuously applying for a variant um I was told and could then apply for um permanent reclassification of you mean reszoning. Re yeah reclassification of zone that option. So I was told that I should seek this out first um to see if it would be approval and then if it is deemed to be within tolerances over time and you know worth continuing doing then seek that out that is an option. It's one of two options you go. I'm just preparing you. Either one, you got to get in the proper zoning or two, you got to get a variance to build the structures.

Okay. Okay. That's all I have. Any questions for us? Uh other than getting at least your contact info, is there anybody else that feels that I should sit down and meet with them to discuss anything in particular to better understand it from their perspective?

No. Once you have a use but once you have a use variant at that point you would probably start making that development plan with um with the firm and then uh typically what we advise is that you come to the county building uh with your surveyor engineer and we have what's called the pre-application meeting where we go through in more detail the specifics of you know here's our checklist here's the information you'll need to provide. So, I would say that you wouldn't need to meet with me until that point, that one you've used variance, and then you've also established a relationship with um you know, a local professional that could put together that a professional that's familiar with the type of documentation and drawing that would be submitted in support of your application. [Music] All right. So for comments for you to take and use at your discretion

discretion, but we're trying to point you to a successful BCA meeting. So I think you're prepared for that. You are appearing before the BCA on September 17th, 5:30 here in the same chambers. There be no question. Good luck to you. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. Next case is UV 2025-63 Cruz Siano 1454 Smoke Road, Valarezo, Indiana 46385 in Center Township. Current zoning is R1 low density single family residential district. Acreage is.57 acres. Today we're having a formal review to allow the operation of a landscape business including the storage of equipment and materials as well as allowing employees to report to the site. If I might say the reason you're here is I think code enforcement came and visited you. Yes. And told you had to come in for you just so me.

Um so you heard what going on on the other one. A lot of similarities here. So we'll let you explain uh introduce yourself and what you're going to do. Uh this is Jesus Srian and I'm here to see if I'm allowed to operate my business from the smoke room 1434. Um and I know there materials but we're not really storing no materials. I think just a typo. So you're doing most of the equipment and yes material you use personally for your business. Uh yeah but not like tell us more about your business. How many employees and how many vehicles you So we have uh three employees so three trucks. Yes.

Okay. And we do mostly uh mowing. So the equipment will be mowers. Um we only work Monday to Friday. And uh from Monday to Friday we leave the mowers on the trailers so that way there's no noise. So when we get there in the morning, we just park our personal car, get on the trucks and leave to the side. I mean personal cars you say maximum including your fours with mine. So total four cars on the property always. Yes. And I'm sorry introduce yourself. Jessica is our um coowner business.

Welcome. Thank you. Uh anything else about business? What kind of hours are operation Monday through Friday? Uh we'll do the uh we usually start around 8 8:30 to 5 4:30 to 5 p.m. And what do you do during the winter? You refer to like snow plowing early. We offer Yeah, we offer snow plowing, but lately it's been dead. So barely any movement in there. Any material you store, fuels or anything else you s? No, no, no, no. like that. So to recap, it's just simply mowers on trailers and you have trucks. Yes. And you're simply moving those around and that's just the place that recording started.

Yes. If your business grows, are you thinking of going to other lands for your operation? Are you planning on staying the same? Uh I guess in the future if we grow, we will need more space more space. um for a few years and I think you're fine. Keep me out. I remember based on the code enforcement officer, you do have a sign currently that identifies you as a business. Yes, we put a sign uh but we took it down right now. And last question escapes right here.

Oh, you got barns and everything you store things inside. It's a or ash in there. How big is that facility? Uh I think 24 by 22 motors and all that. Yeah, we only have motors. Not me. Very good. Well, that is up there. Anything else you want to add about your business? No. Not yet. Okay, David.

Um yeah. So Mike kind of asked the first question I always ask folks in these situations. Um so I guess you got a visit from code enforcement. Do we know do we have an understanding of what what led to that? Was the count I don't know if the c did this county stumbled across it. Was it a a noise complaint that came in? Was it a a visual and was it an eyesore complaint? Was it somebody who said, "Hey, I had to get a permit for my business and that guy didn't. So, I'm going to Did somebody rack you up for that reason or is there a lighting issue?" But I'm familiar with that because it came across my desk before it went to office. Okay. It was a resident noticing the signs that's in the residential neighborhood.

Okay. I just like to get a I'd like to get a feel for what what precipitated the call so we can see, you know, are are you guys being noisy at 4:00 a.m. or you know the the the truck the headlights are going into people's windows at weird hour? That's what we try to get for here. Um so you want how long you been operating the uh operating for off of this property? Uh we moved uh last month. So like a month and a half or so. It did it didn't take long. Well, now we put the sign last week or two weeks ago. Oh, okay. So that so prior but prior to the sign, how long have you been doing what you're doing now? I

think I'm on. Okay. Um so let's see. Yeah. Uh I feel like I've seen this movie before. We almost had an identical meeting. we just had an identical uh hearing in the previous case. Um so we talked about that. Can you kind of walk us through for what you're doing uh if I live if I'm this person to the south of you? Mhm. What's my experience like living next to Jesus's landscaping business? Am I Am I seeing a am I hearing a bunch of noise at weird hours of the day? How would Would I Would I even know that you're doing it? What do you think on that?

I don't believe so cuz like you say, we just get in the morning our our personal cars get in the trucks and then to the sides. There's no movement really on. So customers aren't coming to you. You're always going to your customer. Okay. Um did you change anything on the property with uh when did you purchase the property? End of May. End of May. Okay. Did you change anything on the site regarding any did you add any impervious cover to the property to support this business or did you just buy it and start selling? Did you have to did you widen the driveway? Did you put in a structure? No, nothing. Nothing like that just as it was. Yeah.

Okay. Do you have any plan if this were to go through, would you have any plans of adding any impervious cover? any expanded driveway, bigger parking area, structure? Uh, no. No, I don't think we will ever need more space in what we have.

Okay. Um, I will that's all for now. I might want to jump back in later depending on other as the conversation progresses. But again, you heard what I um the previous case a lot of the things that we would be looking at. It looks like if this were to go through, you probably would not be applying for a development plan because you're not looking to change anything about the rent to make it workable for you. It found that this is going to mostly be a impact to the public um case rather than a you know, I need to change this property to support this plan as the case. So my role in this case will be um reduced from the prior one. But that's all I have at this time. Yeah.

So, the only structure on there is a garage. Right now, there's no cuz it used to be residential, right? So, or it's residential. So, it used to Is there a house there or was there a house? Trailers. There used to be a trailer on the side. Okay. But someone lived in that correct trailer for 5 years. Um, but that's not Well, that's no longer there. No. No. We purchased it. Do we know when that was torn down? Did they properly abandon the existing septic system? Cuz I'm assuming it had a septic system um on the property cuz that area is not on sewer. Um do do we have any indication if that's been

we think there's a well? Well, there there should be a well

if it was a residential house, it would have a well and then it would have a septic system. And generally if that residence is no longer there um they're supposed to properly abandon the septic system. So what that entails is such a tank should have been pumped out by a licensed wastewater hauler and um and then that tank gets crushed and filled in and back filled over the top of it because um if that hasn't been done it's potential environmental hazard cuz one of the one day the sewage could start leaking out of that septic tank and the other thing is someone could be on the property and if that concrete tank cuz I'm assuming it's concrete tank cuz they didn't do plastic tanks um and I don't have anything on record with that property having a newer septic system, that tank could collapse in and someone's out there walking around, they could fall into that septic tank. So, um, it's a safety and an environmental. So, um, I would see if you could find that out. If you can't,

how would you find that information or who would that have?

I mean, you would have to talk to I mean, you could maybe ask who you bought it from. Um, you know, and see if they properly abandon it. um you might have to poke around and see if you can locate the tank and be kind of near where the structure is. I would just if you can't find it, I would just be aware that it's there because if you see like sewage coming up one day or um you notice like a sinkhole in the yard and you're like, "What is that?" That was probably where the sud is. And I would be very careful about, you know, going around there cuz I don't know how old it is. And you know they do eventually degrade and give way and you know it it is an issue. Um the other thing uh so you guys are just reporting to the site and then you're leaving. Um

there there's so there's no need for restroom facilities or sinks or anything there. They're just showing up getting new stuff and and leaving. Okay. Um, and then the other thing is, are you doing any kind of maintenance on your mowers and stuff there? Like changing the oil and all that? Uh, no. We usually take it to the shops. We don't Okay. You take it to shops, you take it off site and you're change oil and stuff because I

you're doing maintenance on them and like you're changing oil, you know, making sure the oil doesn't get spilled and and all that cuz then that would create like hazardous spills and things like that. But uh yeah, I mean if if you're not having a need for waste water, you don't have sinks or hand washing or bathroom or anything there, then that's pretty much all I have. Kevin,

so along the same lines of question, you're you're taking your equipment to be serviced by somebody else. You're contracting that out. So you're not uh holding uh liquids, oils, oil, gasoline on your side. The only thing that we might have is like the small ports, but it's usually on the trucks for to mix oil, I mean the gas, but oil ports. It's not like a big amount,

right? Yeah. And typically that's what a lot of homeowners do too with having within their vehicles or within the garage. But more important is that you're you're not storing uh large volumes of liquids or any prochemicals. Uh do you do any spraying? No.

So you're not doing herbicide or insecticide sprays. So, okay. Um, and what's a little bit what's different than the previous case is you're not having customers come to site. No. So, I got to ask what was the point of having sign up? Was it just for business? Okay. Like advertisement, free advertisement.

You don't have to have it. There's a problem with having sign out as kind of an invitation for people to stop and check out the business. [Music] Make their purchases or whatever. Um I can't I don't have anything else. Thank um so I did see that you said that this could not reasonably used as currently zone. Why can't this be used as a residential property? That was a misunderstanding of our partic. Okay. But it can be used as research.

Um to follow up on that septic item. I see that it was Yeah. was a trailer had like a build on attachment to it previously in the 2019 Google Street View. Um if you're trying to find the septic, you'll see where the toilet stubbed through that concrete pad. So that's that's one way you can kind of track it down. Okay. And generally they were like 10 ft off the foundation or probably off that pad that sucked it. So it could be but generally it's 10 ft. So um looks like you have a existing gravel drive. Uh if it's if you don't have in-n-out vehicles, everyone pretty much arrives on to this location at the same time and leaves at the same time.

Yeah, pretty much. Yes. I wouldn't see any concerns then with the needing to widen your driveway at all. Um I'm not not sure at this time but uh it seems to be okay. I have no other comments. That's it. Thank you. Bridge can Okay. So you're going to be pairing also the 9th the 17th

the 17th for the BCA like the case before you kind of heard what we said before prepared. I saw I looked in your file while everyone was talking you did address a lot of questions such as operation and the equipment and things like that. So be prepared when you sit before them explain your business in its entirety give them a good understanding. I see according to a deed record you did, you just recently came over to the property. Congratulations.

So, um the property is legal non-conforming simply because it doesn't have a residential structure on it and you have those accessory structures. However, I think it still remains in that state. So, a decision by the BCA is very appropriate in this case. Um, but if you decide to do something else with it in future, changing structures, adding structures, that's another conversation we'll have to have. So, just so you know. Okay. But I think the questions uh you pretty much answered all of them in your um submittal. Okay.

So, I would recommend you just making sure you have a presentation where you're stating all that stuff. Kind of get ahead of the curve. Let them get a good understanding of what you're trying to do here. So, do I have to find out about this or the septic tank? In order to do enough research, if your quiz, they're going to ask you, you may have options you're going to commit to, but they'll ask you to permit.

I do have one more coming. So, the are are you guys intending to still use the well? Like, are you going to put like a faucet out there like to hook a hose to or anything to like to hose things off? is cuz if the well isn't going to be used, you should also properly abandon that well because that well is a direct access to the aquifer. So, everyone around there is tacked into that aquifer to get their drinking water. And if that pipe is just there and it gets damaged and anything kind of spills near it or anything or gets in there, it's potentially contaminating everyone's wellwater. So, if you don't have plans on using the well, I would get with a well company, a licensed well company, and have them properly abandon it. Um, if you're going to put like in like a, you know, like a little

a spet or something to have water there to like, you know, hose off equipment or something, then, you know, that's fine. But if you're not going to use the well, that would be another recommendation is to have that well properly abandoned. We might need so nutrition, you know, right? Yeah. So, I mean, you can look into that. That's fine. I mean, it needs to have power. Um, you know, there's a pump in that well and everything. So, I don't know if there's still power in the property structure was torn down. But, um, if you're going to do that, that's fine. But, if you're not going to do anything with that well, I would recommend that it be properly abandoned.

This is just my suggestion is that you visit with the health department. It seems like this property could potentially be a residential site again someday, but you need to find out what it's going to take to get a septic field in because now it's virtually been abandoned. Probably not acceptable by today's standard, right?

But he can give you some direction. If your long-term plan is to put a house on this or to sell this as a residential property, at least you'll know ahead of time whether you've got a a usable piece of land or may even have to consider uh getting connection to the city of Balo because sanitary service is not too far away from terribly far away. Yeah, it's it's approximate and that's a possibility that in there again before you commit to all these connections and stuff, you can find out what it's going to cost to put in a septic system or to extend sanitary sewer service or even get public water supply as opposed to the but in the short term and answer your question in preparation for VCA. I'd highly recommend as it was suggested meeting with Dan. Okay,

then you can have options because you're going to be asked that question whenever you have employees. Where are they going to use a toilet facility? Where are they going to wash the facility? So whether you put a temporary wash station in the tank or puts in plus you got a place for them to go inside. You know what I'm saying? So you get before the day look at options and be ready to one. Does that make sense? Yes. Any other questions? Appreciate your time. Rich,

from a excuse me, from an MS4 perspective, you said about equipment wash off that probably needs to be uh considered in some sort of plan for, you know, to do that to take care of that water. I don't, you know, it's it's not just grass. There's other fluids that can be washed off, you know, from the equipment. That'd be a good idea. Yeah. Typically his department requires storm water protection plan.

Well, that's going to be an issue. I mean, I don't have to do that. I think the the solution to that could be extremely simple. If if you want if you want water, don't let that dissuade you from having the water. It could be it could be as simple as with some of those plants it can be as simple as hey um I've got a little you know the water when it runs off the area gets you know collected right here instead of going into the roadside swale it can be as simple as that yeah it is but it's got to be part of a plan you know

you have to commit to doing that and I guess that was the last comment I had thanks for reminding I think just like the case before you since you're running a commercial business, we need some kind of form of a development plan. Now, not asking that you have to go out and get pay bucks to an engineer or something, but I think you may have to put together some simple development plan showing that. But we can talk about that if you're approval. Okay. Okay. Very good. Any questions? Any other questions for us? No, we wish you much luck on the 17th. So, we'll be see the 17th at 5:30. All right. Thank you.

Thank you. Good luck. Anybody else have anything else they want to bring up?