Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

call the meeting of the Port Orange Planning Commission for September 25th to order. Please, if you all please rise. Pledge of allegiance in a moment of silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Amen. Amen. All righty. If you'll please call the role. President here. Daniel Maria here. I'm here. Tom, I am here. Thank you very much. Uh, moving into the next item is consideration of the minutes from last meeting, which was a very quick meeting. About 5 seconds. Make a motion to approve the meeting minutes from last. Second. We have a motion and a second to approve the minutes. All in favor, please signify by saying I.

Those opposed, nay. Motion carries. Thank you very much. All right, we got a couple of items on here on the agenda. I think some people are here for this, huh? We usually have a a much smaller crowd. Usually it's crickets out there.

Yeah, Robert's usually the only one here. So, glad you're here. Uh let me give you a couple pieces of information just so you know how we work if you've never been to one of these before. So, we're going to have both uh both items opened up at the same time that relate to the project out on Airport Road. We will then um have a presentation from staff and then we have a presentation from the applicant and then we will have public comment and everybody gets 3 minutes. 3 minutes and you'll know we have a timer right up front here and a rather loud alarm will go off that will let you know your time is up. We would appreciate it. We understand everybody has has uh comments, concerns, questions, that kind of thing. If somebody's already said all the stuff you want to say, kind of stick to the new points. Uh that's that's that would help tremendously so you're not all just saying the same thing over and over again. Just a suggestion for you. Um the other thing I wanted to mention was that um we're a quasi judicial body. So when you come up, you need to give us your name and your address. And if you're not a Port Orange resident, make sure you tell us what city that address is in so the clerk can keep a record of this uh uh keep a record of it. Uh the other thing to remind you of is we all live here in Port Orange. So we're not from out of town. We're we're Port Orange residents just like you and we don't get paid to do this. Just a thought,

Stan. No, I was just saving I got you. Oh, okay. Trying to catch you were waving at something. Okay, we cool. Uh, I'll take a motion uh from the body for case number, which one are we on here? CPAM-25-00001, a large scale comprehensive plan amendment for vintage acres. Do I have a motion? Motion to approve case number CPAM-25-00001, largescale comprehensive plan amendment, vintage acres.

Cool. And we have a second. Motion and a second on that one. I'd also like to have a motion to open up the uh related case PRZA-25-00003 which is the PUB reszoning for vintage acres. Motion to approve case number PRZA-25-00003 re PUD reszoning for vintage acres. Second. We have a motion and a second on that. Okay, we've got both cases open. Uh Mr. Chairman Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, that's right. I got a cold stand.

Um before we get started on this discussion, I need to disclose that I have a voting conflict on this issue. Um and I filed form 8B with the clerk. Um it just states that my name I'm a member of the planning commission because my address um and I'm an appointed uh person and this applies to the vote that's going to be taken today. Um disclosure of local officer's interest. I, Stanley Schmidt, hereby disclosed that on September 25th of 25, a measure came or will come before my agency which in to my special private gain or loss. And what that is is I provide accounting services to the petitioner, Pis Homes, their fees are more than half of my total business revenue. And I've been working with Pis Homes for 30 years, quite a while anyway. Um, and so because of that, I have I cannot vote on either of these two uh issues. I can participate in the discussion if I choose. So, we'll go from that.

Very cool. Thank you very much, Dan. Now, we can move on to Penny. Good evening. Hi.

Hi. Good evening. Penelopey Cruz Planning. We have both items open, so I will give one presentation um that will address both items. The subject property, as you know, is located on the west side of Airport Road north of Charles Street, and it was recently annexed into the city of Port Orange in June. as discussed during the public hearings for the voluntary annexation. The next steps as required by Florida statute are the assignment of a city future land use designation and a corresponding city zoning classification. The subject applications are the applicant's request to establish that city future land use designation and zoning classification to support the development of a residential subdivision consistent with what was outlined in the annexation staff report and the public hearing discussions. The property is primarily cleared vacant pasture land with a single family home, detached garage and fullb barn located at the northeast corner of the subject property. Based on the aerial imagery, the subject property has been a cleared pasture land since at least 1978. That's the oldest imagery we were able to obtain. Um, and according to the environmental report that was referenced in the staff report, there are no wetlands on this property. With the first item, the applicant is requesting to change the future land use map designation from approximately 52.96 acres of Valuchia County agricultural resource, one unit per 10 acres, and 3.57 acres of Valuchia County urban low intensity 0 to four units per acre to city of Port Orange rural transition 0 to2 units per acre. The rural transition category that is proposed is intended for lands near Spruce Creek and its tributaries, particularly where properties lie between agricultural uses and established residential neighborhoods with a residential development limited to no more than two units per acre. The subject property meets this locationational criteria for the rural

transition designation as it is situated adjacent to Spruce Creek, bordered by agricultural land to the south and developed residential neighborhoods to the north, northeast, and west. Urban services are available in the airport road rideway to serve the site and the proposed vintage acres PUD Alliance with a maximum allowed density of two units per acre. According to the infrastructure impact analysis and the comprehensive plan amendment staff report, adequate public facilities and capacity exists for sewer, portable water, solid waste, recreation and schools to accommodate the proposed amendment. As for traffic, only one roadway segment Pioneer Trail from Airport Road to Turnal Bay Road was identified that may be above the adopted level service standard. And as is required by our land development code, any future subdivision platin plan for the subject property will be subject to all transportation concurrency regulations requiring adequate public facilities to be provided or be mitigated any impacts created by the proposed development. Approval of a triparty transportation fair share agreement between the city, Valuchia County, and the developer may be required to address those impacts to the roadway network. With the second item on the agenda, um the applicant is requesting to reszone approximately 56.53 acres consisting of 52.96 acres zoned to Valuchia County A1 and 3.57 acres zone Valuchia County A2 to City of Port Orange planned unit development and to establish the Vintage Acres master development agreement and conceptual development plan which establishes the framework for the development of a single family residential subdivision. The proposed PUD allows for the development of 113 residential dwelling units resulting in a density of two units per acre which is consistent with the density of the surrounding area. This is the concept plan um that was in

your staff report as well. The main access point to the proposed subdivision will be from Airport Road and that would be subject to approval of the Valuchia County driveway permitting process as um Airport Road is a Valuchia County road maintained roadway. An emergencyon access will be provided as a connection to Charles Street usable only during emergencies if the airport road access point is blocked and that gated emergency access will be maintained by the HOA and size to accommodate emergency vehicles. Also, because Charles Street is a county maintained road, that would also be subject to the Blusher Countyy's driveway permitting process. The concept plan and the MDA also address a right turn lane and a left turn lane from Airport Road into the subdivision, which would be constructed subject to approval of the county's driveway permitting process. Again, because Airport Road is the county maintained road, the concept plan and the PD also require an 8 foot wide sidewalk to be constructed along Airport Road frontage um of the subject property to connect to the existing sidewalk network on Airport Road, as well as the internal sidewalk network within the subdivision. All the streets within the subdivision are supposed to be public and designed in accordance with the city's local roadway standards, including a 4 foot wide sidewalk on both sides. The proposed dimensional requirements for the PUD, which was listed in your staff report, are generally consistent with adjacent city residential subdivisions in the in the PUD. A PUD will comply, the PUD will comply with the tree preservation requirements in the city's code and exceeds the landscape buffer requirements in the code. Now when the subdivision platin plan is submitted that formal review will take place uh for the landscaping and tree preservation to ensure that compliance with the MDA and the land development code. The proposed concept plan indicates a minimum of 65% of the PUD property being reserved for open

space which exceeds the code minimum of 60% open space by 5% or 2.83 acres. According to the city's regulations, a subject property must be able to manage storm water on the property after development as it does prior to development or in its current undeveloped state. Therefore, with the development of the subject property, there can be no loss in the ability to hold storm water or an increase in the volume of storm water discharged or the peak rate of storm water discharged from the subject property into the regional drainage system. And in addition to complying with those city regulations, the subject property will also be required to meet all state regional permitting requirements for storm water management, including those from the St. Jones River Water Management District, the Department of Envir Environmental Protection and Valuchia County prior to any development approval of the subject property. Currently, the storm water on the undeveloped property is partially absorbed into the ground with some collecting in low areas and ditches on the subject property and then runoff not absorbed or stored on site drains into the Valuchia County maintained swailes along Charles Street, Russell Road, and Airport Road. From there, it flows towards the county maintained swale at the southwest intersection of Charles Street and Russell Road, then to Spruce Creek and ultimately discharges into the Halifax River. According to the project engineer and the Vintage Acres MDA, the PUD includes storm water requirements that exceed the city's current requirements. Specifically, the MDA requires the storm water system to reduce the peak flow rate. storm water can leave the site and the total volume of water that the drain that drains off the site by an additional 25% beyond the current code

requirements. To meet this higher standard in the PUD, the storm water ponds for any future subdivision will need to be larger and have additional capacity to store more storm water on site than required by the current code requirements for a designed storm event. Therefore, more of the subject property will be set aside for storm water storage than would be required under the current code. There are no policy deviations requested as part of this PUD. The proposed subdivision will comply with all applicable requirements of the city's land development code and as shown on the screen according to the master development agreement and conceptual development plan. certain provisions within the PUD will exceed the minimum standards of the LDC. If a if the proposed comprehensive plan amendment and PUD resoning are approved, the applicant must later submit a detailed subdivision plan patent plan that complies with the master development agreement, concept plan, land development code, and applicable state and regional permitting requirements from St. John's River Water Management District, Department of Environmental Protection, and Valuchia County. Public notice signs were posted on the subject property on August 1st. Staff has received phone calls or emails from 13 individuals requesting general information about the proposed PUD resoning. And the primary concerns raised included avoiding vehicular access onto Charles and Russell Road, which the PUD does, and potential drainage impacts. The applicant also held a neighborhood meeting on September 4th. Approximately 45 residents attended the meeting and according to the applicant's meeting summary, the main questions and concerns raised by the attendees included drainage, school capacity, and pedestrian safety. Staff is recommending approval of the comprehensive plan amendment and the PUD resoning and is here to answer any questions you may have and the applicant is also here.

Beautiful. Thank you very much, Penny. Scott, any comments, questions for Penny? Um, I acknowledge that development is coming all around us whether we like it or not. I think that many of the people who are sitting here today are a little bit challenged by the fact that we drove in the rain and I came down that road actually from my office in Venetian Bay coming in. I I do have a little bit of a concern with the number of units being proposed in the area and I'm a little bit concerned about a an impervious service of 70% as opposed to 60% in the surrounding areas. Have you had any conversations about that?

Um not generally as far as the the impervious service because of the higher standards of the drainage they still have to meet.

Okay. Um, and then the number of units is actually, let me put that screen back up. It is actually lower than some of the adjacent density um, in the surrounding area. Oh, missing my slide. There it is. So, this this slide here will show you the density of some of the adjacent neighborhoods here. Um, 2.4, we've got eight units per acre. the largest um waters edge 2 units per acre. And so that was discussed during the annexation with the city council and and the goal and the it was foreshadowed at that point that if it was annex this is what they would come in with was two units per acre because that was consistent with the area there. Um so there was discussion leading up to the annexation and these applications that staff could not recommend approval of anything higher than two units.

Right. And do you feel that the retention and detention ponds that are being proposed are adequate to cover that? So there's no full engineering at this point because we are at a land use and zoning stage. Okay. But when they come in for um for their subdivision plan plans or full engineering, it's not a feeling they have to. They wrote in their legal document that is going to be recorded that they are holding themselves to a 25% higher standard than our minimum code. So, we can't approve plans unless it meets that higher standard. Okay. Thank you very much. Those are my primary concerns. Cool. Bo,

yeah, I have a couple of questions. Reading through that document, u I noticed there was a comment about the uh uh flooding over the past 100 years, only five years. Were they recent years? Do you know when when that happened? There's a chart in the SAP report that shows those events that were the larger the like larger events beyond the beyond the 11in storms. Um, if you look at the PUB staff report on page page 11, it has the years and the the numbers there in that chart. Okay. So, these were recent years.

Okay. Um, going back to Scott's question about the impervious surfaces, I don't know if I missed it or not, but is there a percentage of u of uh occupation of imperous surfaces on a development? I mean, do we have a uh control over how much of that can be impervious? I know. Yeah, that's what the standard impervious maximum impervious is. So, the PUD as a whole, the code requires 60% open space, no impervious. Okay. Okay. That's my question.

So, that's for the PUB as a whole. They're going above that standard at 65% open space. And then there's a individual lot impervious standard and that's where on just the individual lots the standard is 70% for impervious that includes all buildings your home any shed any kind of building you have driveway um patios all that right yeah okay thank you good for now where are you um I'm okay for now

all right um couple questions My my big thing is well one of my big things here is traffic. So when I look at the numbers and and what you guys talked about in the uh tables I know capacity how do I say this capacity is calculated we have the peak peak morning peak evening and totals but I'm looking at Pioneer Trail especially as being one of the potential bottlenecks. the numbers that that they're using, are they including all of the potential development that's already been allowed in New Smyrna Beach? Yes. And all of Wood Haven. So, cuz those numbers are already kind of defined.

Yes. So, the the analysis at this point, and there'll be a more detailed analysis if the land use and zoning gets approved and they move to actual subdivision plans where we get into the actual concurrency analysis. It'll be more detailed at that point. But the analysis even at this point does include background trips. And that's why it was saying basically um and it was documented in the staff report that with all the development proposed on Pioneer Trail in New Simra Beach

plus this there is a the concern about that one segment of Pioneer Trail. And that's why additional analysis needs to be looked at if it gets to the actual traffic concurrency phase. And at that point, we wouldn't be able to approve the subdivision unless there's either a physical improvement or some sort of mitigation to alleviate that. Yeah. I mean, that gets that puts us in the situation with like Williamson where we have that one bottleneck and that's what we still we're still building because we can find fair share money. We go put into projects that help sort of alleviate that, right? It has to meet defined criteria. So we have of of what the where the fair share goes to affect that.

Well, we have countywide trans traffic analysis requirements for how we do traffic analysis throughout the county through the the transportation planning organization. And so there's specific uh requirements of how they do that analysis. And if it meets those requirements and there's there's an improvement that can either physically be built or the mitigation to an improvement that can be built within a certain time frame then then we have to per state law address that approve that concurrency. So even though it can't be done right now it's it's planned and can be done in the future within a reasonable time frame.

Okay. All right. Um yeah, the other thing I'm trying to figure out is the um you know the storm water. Um so when when may and maybe the engineers want to talk about this, but when I look at it, you know, the you talk about the large volume rain events that are in here and and they we've had five in a 100 years, right? That's what that's what the data shows. 20 but yeah four of them have been in the last 20 years so for 80 years we had one and we all it's happening and I guess I don't have a question

I as you know with some of the discussion that's been happening you know we aren't our hands are tied right now to to revise our current standards but the applicant on their own accord has put into their legal document that they're going to go above and beyond code to add more volume storage and reduce that that flow rate. And that's really the issue here. We have to decide based on these facts and what the law says we have to look at um regardless of what may be happening down the road at the state level. So all right, thanks. That's all I had for you. I appreciate your time.

And if if something changes with the state law, just to address that, and we are able to change our standards and go higher, they still would have to comply with that even if it's above the 25%. like if we they would still have to apply without a higher standard. Yeah, I'm I'm sure the applicants engineers can help us out with these answers. Okay, cool. Thank you. Um yeah, so the applicant, Mr. Posie, you want to come up? Mr. Pis, whichever you going to bring up, you need you need to get paid, so I guess you're it's going to be a proono.

Well, that's fine, too. All right, there I am. Okay. All righty. So, uh, good evening. Joey Posey, 420 South Nova, attorney for the applicant. And, uh, Penny did a great job summarizing a lot of probably what I'm going to touch on. But, um, I mean, there's several aspects of this project that I think we need to dive in a little deeper. And, uh, we do have the development team here, the engineers here, um, obviously to talk towards the storm water issues., you know, I'm an attorney. I'm not an expert in storm water. and you have a actual builder who uh has been doing this in the area for decades and has really real life experience when it comes to these issues. So, um I think that's a added benefit. Doesn't have to be a negative and um you know, having a cordial conversation about that's a good thing. So, uh like Penny had identified, it's uh we're really dealing with about 56 acres. It's an old farm. It's you know, you can probably go back to the 50s and it's got the the farm. It's harder to see, but the farm has been there uh for several decades. It's it's been impacted. It's been uh you know farmed. It's been harvested. It's it's impacted plenty. Um the designations I think Penny had identified um and the request is as she mentioned rural transition up to 2 acres units per acre and PUD. Um just to give you a sense of the zoning map. Um that isn't an aerial. Uh most of the surrounding properties are PUDS. Uh even fly into a PUD. I think the the mobile home park is a a vestage of the county MH. I can't remember which category it is, but um for the most part they are PUDS. So uh you know that's a consistent zoning category to go to. Uh and the densities um you know as you get closer to uh the interstate the density increases but immediately adjacent is the rural transition which is exactly the the density we're asking for and and you actually have office transition which goes up to 16 units and urban medium density. But um you there's I'm

sure unique aspects to those projects too, but it isn't inconsistent. You're really stepping down. That's really what's happening here. Um these are the aerials that um uh in staff report um obviously you can see it's really the existing conditions been the same since um you know the 70s at least. Um, and uh, you know, with that in mind, the proposal from the get-go, you know, really working with staff over the last year trying to figure out um, you know, really how to design this project that, you know, we we all recognize storm water's an issue. We all recognize that traffic's an issue and doing it in a way that, uh, is just responsive to those concerns, but, you know, isn't a line in the sand that says that, you know, nothing's possible here. that that doesn't get you anywhere, that doesn't move the needle, it doesn't address issues, and it doesn't, you know, solve problems that citywide are happening by, you know, addressing other failing infrastructure or even areas of the city that uh uh are suffering from uh storm water issues. I I you know, one of the things in the staff report I thought was uh interesting was how many of the homes in the city have been built prior to 1990 uh in those standards. And you know that's not something you necessarily can unwind the clock and fix. But telling somebody know that you can't develop your property doesn't fix that either. So um you know trying to find a solution that uh helps the citizens and also keeps uh you know folks moving within reason coming to the city you know putting their tax dollars into the city giving that city and making that revenue for the city so they can put that money towards these improvements that are necessary that that's really the goal here and you know Jim can speak to that in a little bit but uh that's how I conceptualize it and really that's what we've been working backwards from with how to make this project feasible from you know where he started at 153 units

and really stepping it down from all the way to we're at 112 plus what is we call the Balman track which is the you know the the property to the north that is going to be remaining uh you know one acre track of land for uh the Balman family and here's the project um just to give you a sense of the scope uh you know just to clarify a few things real quick uh you know the like we the Penny mentioned the the the impervious coverage when talking in terms of 70% that's per watt and the idea there is that you know if you can shrink this to an extent to encourage folks to really put some money into their home and do an upscale community well that's the idea that you know if you want a bigger home that's going to have bigger coverage that's the logic of it so um you know that's really what we're we're aiming for and also consolidating it and you know keeping those lots of consistency side at those, you know, at those larger lot sizes and then trying to also balance the fact that we do, you know, less impervious is best because that's what the storm water concerns are aimed at and that's what we're trying to address too. Um, as Penny had mentioned, we exceed it. We're at 65% and I, you know, something that is very uh uh I I think that, you know, from the perspective of the engineers and how they design, you we're only 34.7% coverage. uh that's that's fairly low. Um and that doesn't mean we're impacting what the existing vegetation on the property is. That's very low, too.

Uh but we've managed to design the project where we're not impacting a specimen. You know, the pockets of trees that exist on the site, they remain. So, um you know, that's um I think trying to be responsible and trying to figure out how this puzzle piece fits together is what we've been tinkering with and working with staff with for about a year. Um, as Penny had mentioned, the, you know, the city standard that, um, the 100red-year 24-hour event standard, uh, we are voluntarily going to a 25% increase of that standard, uh, to both on the discharge side and the capacity side. So, you you're seeing at least a 25% drop on the existing condition. So, you know, for folks that are concerned about storm water, of course, you know, speaking I can't speak necessarily to the capacity beyond the system, you know, when the system is reached beyond that but uh you know the engineer will speak intelligently to this and you know it's really in all storm events you're getting a better outcome. It may not be the outcome that solves the problem for a bigger issue citywide but it's a much more it's a much better situation on the property than it would exist in its you know impacted farm state. That's the point that when you develop it, when you make a storm water system that increases the minimum standard that the discharge rate off the site is less. Therefore, that gives folks the ability to, for instance, on Spruce Creek that there's more capacity in the creek that can take that capacity. It doesn't resolve your, you know, major storm events, you know, once in a thousand years. But, uh, but, you know, from the, you know, making their situation better that that has an incremental step in the right direction, which is what we're trying to solve with this project. Uh, the landscapes, uh, buffers are all double the size uh, adjoining the roads, adjoining the project to the or the flyin that, you know, they're double the minimum standard of what would otherwise

be required in the PUD uh, minimum standards. uh there's no waiverss and variances as penny identified. Uh I I'm not sure there's most of our criteria are far exceeding minimum standard. Uh and you know from our perspective it's the right way to do it. That's why we you know we see this as a a good thing that there's a lot of good smart growth that's happening with the project as designed. Uh the traffic impacts uh I think we had mentioned that the the capacities are there. Um I was actually just taking a quick look at the vested trips that were part of that analysis and uh it actually goes as far out as if you go Lunabella all the way to 440 or 44 that Ocean Gate that's actually in that calculation.

So they're looking at all of those impacts through Venetian Bay off of Pioneer. That's what's being contemplated as part of this review because those projects are vested. are coming and although there's not infrastructure in the ground, we have to we have to anticipate their impacts. So that's something that's also being required as part of this project too. Uh and as I think as alluded to that this project does generate fair share. It does generate monies that go towards impacts that go towards those traffic improvements that we're we're looking for. And you know, as we've designed the project, you right turn lanes, the del lane, you know, you're expanding the right of way. Uh you're making, you know, left turn out, left, right turn out that, you know, there's a lot of safe traffic movements just right in front of that project that you doesn't one prohibit traffic, but doesn't make an unsafe condition either. Um the project, the rightways in the project, they're 24 foot wide plus Miami cur curbs on both sides. you know that's a very wide right of way uh for safety of emergency vehicles um and u I had mentioned the primary access off airport because a concern we had heard through this process is folks on Charles didn't want to be impacted by traffic so we said that's fine uh we're happy to do that and just make that emergency only that if in the event if there's an emergency that's the only way it can be used uh but it's off of airport is the only uh entrance for the residents to use in and out unless it was an emergency. Um, like I had mentioned the the home design, it's supposed to be, you know, upscale homes. This is just some sense of what they're going to look like. Some have, you know, side entrance garages. Um, you know, that's the goal of this community. There's, you know, architectural interest and enhanced appeal to them. Uh, another project that, uh, the PIS uh, group has done uh, that we had pointed out was the reserve of Victoria with its monument feature that we thought would be, you know, something that you guys would like to see to get a sense of it. Um, we've been doing preliminary sketches of how the

entrance would look. I don't necessarily have a color version, so it it's not meant to be Halloween and but um just to give you an idea that you know they're putting in the time and the effort to try to design this project in a way that uh you know can it that fits with the community that's not just your normal residential subdivision. Um the neighborhood meeting um we had uh there was a lot of questions. there was a lot of uh I think u acoustics issues and a lot of questions I didn't feel necessarily got answered and you know we're trying to also answer those for those folks too. Uh some things that were included was the flight path. Um you know how the management of the system management from a nutrient level and from storm water runoff, how would that function? How does that work? Uh the discharge, you know, what what happens when it's discharged? You know, pedestrian safety in the school route, flood risk, and you know, some of the things that may have not been apparent uh is that you know, the storm water design, like you said, you're adding 25% beyond the minimum just simply on capacity and discharge. uh and the Charles Point Road access emergency only. Uh and then we went and actually pulled the flight paths uh just to get a sense of what the flight paths were. And it doesn't look like any of them necessarily follow or flow or go over this property. I don't doubt that it does happen from flying. So, what we're willing to do is that we're happy to put it in our our docks that there's an acknowledgement that there's, you know, folk that there's a flight community to the north and that if planes are coming, don't come complain. Not a problem. We're happy to do that. Uh we are we have no problem with a visual buffer from Spruce Creek flying. It's it's to double the buffer size, but if there's, you know, additional screening that can be applied, we're happy to do it. Um the latoral plantings along the shelves of the storm water ponds that seems like an added plus. We're happy to do it. Um the crosswalk uh I think was mentioned too to make sure that there's

safe ingress and egress for students across airport. Not a problem. And like I mentioned that the uh recognizing the the plane paths and potential for going over the project and you know making sure that those are in the docks for the community and the developer has no problem with these changes. Um I just want to make that clear for the record and you know however this happens is that you know these are things that we're stipulating to and we have no problem to do that. Uh as to the storm water uh of course I would defer to the engineer but just to give you a sense of uh what we've been uh designing. Uh of course it's greater than the minimum standards for both St. John's and the city. Uh it's a two-stage treatment where you're talking about the dry retention into wet retention. Um and this treatment and storage uh through the wet detention ponds is you know how it eventually gets treated. And the the dry is really to capture all of those um the first round of uh wet nutrients uh you know those uh uh nitrogen and phosphorus that may be in the ground do not want to go into the creek that you know trying to capture that and you want to get to those before the discharge occurs into the wet pond. And the wet potention pond is actually a treatment volume equal to 150% of a minimum. So you know math works a little differently on the 25% but the ponds themselves are 150. And the um the post like I mentioned and this is verbatim in the document but the post treat development peak discharge rate has to be reduced by at least 25%. From what the 100year 24-hour event standard is. So water leaving the site has to be far less than water leaving the site today. Uh and you know that's the uh that's the idea. You want to design a system in a way that one it can be feasible. You want to have a development that can support itself, but at the same time that recognizes community concerns and

trying to thread that needle, you know, one way or the other to uh get a project that's uh, you know, I think can be both, you know, benefit to everybody involved, even though it's not the perfect answer. Uh, and now I'm going to turn it over to the developer just to get a sense of who he is. You for folks that weren't at the neighborhood meeting, um, it's probably, you know, just understanding, you know, his reputation and who he is. He's a local. I'm also a local. So, it's, you know, it's not like we're strangers either, but just, you know, we we want them to be reassured that, you know, it's regard what happens is, you know, when you see him at Publix, it's going to be an awkward conversation if anything ever happens. So, maybe at this Walmart,

uh, good evening. I'm Jim Pis with Pis Home and um development team. Got my son here. Um I'm from 27 well 908 Taylor Road um Port is my office and I'm at 2768 South Peninsula Drive in Daytona Beach is where my residence is just right there at Portland. Um I appreciate the time and I'm I'm after lots. I'm after lot inventory. You know, I'm a home builder, right? you end up being a developer by default because you're constantly fighting the battle of trying to get some line inventory to continue what I've done my entire life. 35 years seemed like a lifetime. Um my dad retired after 18 and I'm going 35. So I'm trying to figure out how that happened. But you know you continue your drive. It's like a motivation that you have and an everchanging challenge, you know, from customers and and what they want and need and their, you know, their their expectations and all that kind of stuff and their changes they want to do and their, you know, the things they learn. It's just a constant challenge. So, I'm trying to figure out what that battle is I'm fighting, but there's something about it that I enjoy. So, I continue to do it and the challenge of getting a lot of inventory has been been the hardest part. So looking at the site there for quite some time then we built all the I lived out quiet place in the country. So my past residents are there as well just on the other side of the creek. Um but all the houses and spring water and waterway right there on in Spruce Creek that are just north of those. Of course I've done a lot down south of there. Did a lot of neighborhoods. um you know, Pinnacle Park, Saw Grass, Cypress Head, you know, Ash and Lake was my first development I did um developing it from ground up. Um but a couple things that that I wanted to mention here real quick and except for the cost of this property. This site is virtually the I don't want to call it perfect, no perfect, but this is about as good as you can find because of the

pasture. a pasture you can clean up and you can you can help the nutrients phosphorus they call them nutrients but they're really damaging nutrients to the to the creek. So we have a chance here where we can take and clean that up from going from the pasture to the creek. That's one big benefit here of converting a pasture land to that. So, that's that's one thing. It doesn't have um I know it officially doesn't have wetlands. I know there's a chuckle on site because there's a little area there that was a pond for um horses or cows and stuff. I think they get their drink, but you know, we found no wetlands on the site for biologist study. There are no trees that we have to contend with. So, we're not going to clear cut something and get blamed for that. Even though we're forced to clear cut something every time we do a project by but you know, I won't get that. Um I don't want to clear cut anything. And um we know a couple things I want to point out. Um one project cannot fix the problems we're having with storm water because you know I in my family I have a house we have a house that my dad actually has that floods that we deal with every time the tide comes up. So we're in that situation. Um this project cannot fix all the problems. Um, but this project does contain some ingredients of the overall recipe because the way I see it is every time that a city or municipality has a project, they have an opportunity to get some sort of benefit. And we truly feel and we know through what we're going to design and provide that we're we're providing a benefit. It's not the ultimate fix. This project won't fix everything. We know that. Get a retention pod out there in an entire hole. That's not going to happen. it's just going to fill up with ground water. That's not the answer. So, it's a recipe all along all around different parts of the city. That's a different part of the city than what we're going through over here on or what some folks are going through over on the east side. It's two completely different situations, but we

do have one creek and one B19 canal and we have all that stuff. Um, this project will install and donate utility system with state art lift station that enhances the utility system. This project will create tax based income for the city, potentially offset property hikes. Some of this project will be elevated. We get um you know, big thing is is like, oh, your site's going to be up. It's going to block all our water. We've got a long way to go with that to provide all the documentation that says we're as Penny pointed out in there, we're we're none of the water's going to be blocked. None of it blocked. We're control what we have that's elevated. So, we're able to control that and keep that out that Jody that Joey was was alluding to or talking about. Harry can explain it more if you got any more questions. But literally, if we raise the site in some areas and we control that storm water, then it's not being combined with everybody else's storm water in that valuable storage area in the creek. I come to this realization and it really helps me understand exactly what we are doing. So, it holds it controls it. Um, the project will clean up all the water that were off in these major storm events. So now with what little water does get off of here, it's going to be cleaner now because of what we talked about earlier. Project only creates 35% of the area to be impervious. You know, we've seen that thing up there just there's only 35% that's going to be impervious now and we're going to control that. So that's actually a lot smaller area than what people might realize. um this project because it's going to be elevated and it's going to be designed it itself will not flood and it's not going to add to the flooding issues that we have. Now, everybody's going to write a different opinion. If it's going to help, we feel it's going to help something. What do you see it? What you can see the effects of it, you can document, but it's not going to add to flooding issues. Um, will not fix the

flooding issues in lower communities. No project can. This will not block any water that currently runs in Space Creek. We talked about that. This project was done by a builder developer with a track record, not creating issues, keeping his word, and adding value to everybody by utilizing knowledge and history of being in the area for a lifetime. I'm a don't speak a lot, but I wrote that down. I'm kind of proud of that. So, you know, and and it's true because I've been through a lot. I've learned a lot. And we're we're truly not to mention the employment base. Talk about them. We talk about tax base, talk about all thousand jobs we create, but that's for another time. the city has the opportunity to harness the developers every time there's a project as one small ingredients to this overall recipe and this is one of those opportunities. So we know if we don't do anything then we'll always get what we all got. So that's me got a question for me to answer maybe we'll just finish the presentation real quick if that's okay. We're very we're close to um you know Jim had hit up the nail on the head. I mean it does generate revenue. It's one of those things that does provide local jobs to the community, too. I mean, I'm sure that's you've heard that I've heard that every project, which but there's a truth to that that keeps people employed. People are working, they're spending money, they're, you know, raising families. That's that's the goal. That's the idea of what a community should be doing. Um, it's a small pocket. That's the focal pocket because it's a impacted farm area. That's, you know, a pasture. Those are the places you want to see if there's going to be growth in your residential areas of your community. that's where you would expect them. Um, and it's, you know, really there's an opportunity because you have a uh a system that we're trying to design that results in a better treatment for the creek. You have a system that's designed that results in less discharge into the creek. Uh, and I I mentioned this to Tim, but we're I'm not aware of any other project that's close to the standard. Uh, that's that's something

that, you know, this is one of a kind. Uh, and you know, that's not a, you know, I'm not trying to boast about that, but you know, that's the that's the point. That's the goal that when you move, you trying to move the needle to make change that you're trying to get a developer to commit money to a project that if he's willing to give you something that exceeds your minimum standard and it's something you that your code doesn't provide for nor offered that, you know, that's that's an opportunity. Um the uh so really it's you know from our perspective that you know it's a well-designed project. It has a lot of benefits to it. Uh it tries to balance uh a lot of the concerns we hear and you know some I just don't have I I don't have great answers for because you know I can't I can't speak to you know a lot of the concerns that a lot of these neighbors have seen in their communities. I can only try to address what's our community can do to help them even though it's not a complete solution for them. My grandmother flooded on Spruce Creek. I grew up in Meline. I dealt with the flooding. And you know, of course, I'm frustrated, too. But, you know, I can only control what's, you know, within my little realm of community. And, you know, trying to find an answer by uh, you know, telling every project that you can't build. That doesn't solve a problem because really what happens at the end of the day is you just make you just shift it to a tax. That means the the residents of Port Orange have to bear that burden alone rather than trying to figure out a way to make developers address issues incrementally while encouraging to want to build here. Uh we're, you know, staff recommendation of approval. You know, happy you very happy with, you know, the the effort and just the time that Annie and her group put together to, you know, really get to this point. And we're available for questions. The engineers available. Um, you know, Harry can probably talk for hours about storm water. So, if there's anything we can do to ease concerns or address them, we're happy to do it and we're available. So,

cool. You all said then. All right. Good deal. Uh, questions, comments for Joey or I do. Joey, go ahead. Um, so we were talking about raising the property, but I'm confused if you're raising the entire property up or just spots of it. It it it would be spots. Uh the raising would be in spots. I mean, of course, you have to make the the lots the lots have to be elevated. Hey, folks. Guys, guys, let's be civil about it. Thank you.

The lots have to be elevated. You know, you don't want to flood homes. You know, of course, that's not going to be elevated to a level that the same would be the grade for the road. And then the storm water ponds, you know, of course that they're not being elevated to a point. They're just, you know, it's really a reflection of water table that you want to be able to hold water. you're not trying to, you know, dig into the water table and then making a wet pond. That that doesn't accomplish your goal. Uh but if there's, you know, as to specifics, I'm happy to pull the engineer, but that's that's the idea. That that's what Jim was speaking to. Okay. That's what I I just wanted to clarify because I was unsure. I'm good. Good. Bo,

yeah, a couple things. Um, number one, I I had uh some exposure to a situation similar to this down in uh in uh Daytona, the area around Beach Street and Fair View. And every time it rains, you know, they get about 4 feet of water in there. in talking to the engineering in Daytona about it. The uh you know there was conversation about running culverts and putting in you know designing the uh roads there and putting in a roundabout. There's a lot of things that we're talking about but what the the problem with draining into the Halifax River is you're draining uphill and uh you know it's not possible to have the water run into the river when the river level is higher. And I I'm just curious about uh Spruce Creek. I mean, I I don't know how much volume we're talking about. That would be an engineering question, I guess. But uh I it just seems like we're, you know, we're adding to that flow. And I I'm I'm curious about if there's any any resistance there. I mean,

of course. Yeah. And and I'll say two points and then maybe I'll defer to Harry, but you know, especially in Beach Street, that's a very unique situation in that they have the Army Corps actually working on a full study to try to address that issue because it's you know 100 years of you know since that you have building it's low and the tide comes in it's it has nowhere to go that and I think in a in a in a nutshell that makes sense. Yeah. And it's gradually happened over the years. So and and the thing I do want to mention though is that you know the way we're designing a system is less discharge. So, you know, regardless of the time, the condition and the precondition is going to be greater than the post condition. So, you're taking a 25% reduction in the discharge into the creek,

which means there's more capacity in the creek, even though again 25% off of this project doesn't solve Port Orange's problem, but it's a project that's contributing less than its existing condition, which is the pasture and the way it sits now. Uh, but I'll let Harry maybe speak to the details a little better. You know, that's my layman's understanding of it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not clear on how that happens. Harry Newkerk, Newerk Engineering, 1230 North US Highway 1, Orman Beach. Thank you for your question.

Mhm. The uh stormwater system that we're proposing on this uh subdivision follows sort of the new rules of where we're headed in storm water. It's going from Tallahassee to all the water management districts throughout Florida with respect to systems that have more storm water on them to do two things. to solve pro flooding problems offsite which people are experiencing in say Spruce Creek. The Spruce Creek canal has a certain amount of capacity and looking at designing sites that help alleviate that and provide more capacity within those downstream discharge nodes which in this case is Spruce Creek. So, how do you do that? And how do you accomplish the goals of the environmentalist that are worried about the birds, the fish, um, keeping our creeks, our rivers clean for the future, trying to clean them up from basically a lot of bad storm water design. And at the time it was good, but there's been a lot more study on it to what needs to happen in these discharges to help with the nutrients and stuff like that. And when you hear nutrients, everyone's like, who cares about nitrogen and phosphorus? Well, the reason you care about that is because your storm water system to solve that problem gets bigger. And the bigger we make the storm water system at that same time solves the issues with flooding off the property. So these new rules you got to have more storm water. That's how I look at it. That's why everybody should like removing nutrients. It's twofold. Storm water plus save the environment with respect to animals and just water quality in

general. So this system you have every development that comes in there was a question on fill you have to fill developments nowadays you go out and you you do borings they tell you where the water is you don't just do a development right on existing grade or everybody will be complaining because there will flood so you raise the grade which during design we would figure out that is but when we raise that grade we can't raise that grade with no thought no consideration to the public that's around us. We can't dam up everybody around us and cause them to flood. We have to design so their storm water still flows into the ditches around this development and gets to the creek and that's what we have to do. It's uh required by every project. So we have to do that and the way this system will be designed it's a treatment train they call it's a new strategy where you got to have more than one storm water system here at the city you have one it's behind us it's a wet pond that doesn't work anymore they won't they won't let you do that you got to add to that so treatment train is you you start with like dry retention so we'll have dry retention areas where the water will go in first these areas usually hold about one foot about 1 foot of water in there, then you'll have a weird that gets into the wet ponds. They call it like the first flush. Now, the rain that you just experienced today that would go into these areas. It would never get into the wet pond. So, it never discharge. Just your normal rain vents up 5 in of rain. That's pretty substantial little rains. Nothing will get into the wet ponds. It'll just stay in the dry. The dry retention is in the upland areas of the of the site, a little higher than the wet ponds. The storm water will percolate. It'll go

into the soil. That reduces volume of water that could actually go into wet ponds that would actually then go into the uh outfall ditches around the property. It's how you reduce volume into the ditches. It's a first maneuver in the storm design. This removes nitrogen. You remove nitrogen from the yards, pesticides, and that you people put on their residences to make their yards look really green and nice. So once it gets in goes out of the dry and gets into the wet areas, the wet areas will be designed as Joey we we stated uh liqutorial zones. You that's putting uh plants around the edges. You get more of a natural look. It's actually a really nice looking storm bond. helps remove some more nutrients and that water body there al is removing phosphorus. You're designing it to settle out suspended solids and whatnot and that's another environmental thing. So when it gets into these ponds, it'll then have a control structure that we have to specifically design with a certain size pipe to reduce the water that comes off the property that gets into the ditch. And what we're saying here is we're going to reduce it by 25%. So you can look at it from a couple ways. 25% reduction in rate. Rates how fast it comes off site. So you don't ever want to have a pipe and have so much water coming out of it that you just blow out the uh the ditch and now the road's gone and we got serious erosion problems and you're impacting people just even driving through their subdivision. So that's why you want to reduce rate or reduce it by 25%. Volume when you reduce volume by 25%. You then have more you then have that reduction of water that we are putting

in that ditch. Now you have 25% more volume for the neighboring properties that maybe experienced flooding. Well, that extra volume will allow them to have less flooding. So if they flooded by an inch, maybe they don't flood now. Maybe that property doesn't flood because we have 25% more in the d in the ditches around the site. Maybe some other person flood by six inches. Maybe it's only two. But that's how you're solving the problems with these ditch with the flow coming off at 25%. You're helping the n the neighborhood the general surrounding areas have more room in the ditch to move their water. It doesn't have any effect on our site with flooding. It's helping that extra 25% will help the neighboring properties. U I'll add to this. We ran storm water models on other sites that are designed not as intense as this one, but the 25% reduction. We ran 20 in of rain 24 hours.

They don't fly. So the qu it's not really the question about flooding isn't about the new development. This development will not flood. Maybe drop 30 inches of rain on this development won't flood. It's not going to. But the way we'll design the site with the 25% volume reduction will help surrounding properties experience less flooding if they flood in these events. So if you have any question or detail question. Uh yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,

Dan. Um this is one of the things I was concerned about too and I I talked to the uh the petitioner. Um when you go from the dry ponds to the wet ponds, is there is that just a natural flow or is there a pipe underneath those that connects the ponds? That is a great question. So t there's typically not a pipe. So you'll have long linear driver tension ponds next to a wet pond and you'll design a we will be like 50 ft or something like that and water will get to that we and then it'll sheet flow over into the wet tension pond with no pipes. Okay. Mhm.

And the uh the ponds like there's the pond in the middle of the development. Is that going to cross the stream or is there a pipe to get that over to the discharge area? Great question. All of the ponds in this entire development will be tied together so that you get a pond at the entrance. That wet pond will tie to every single wet pond. All the dry ponds will tie together. So the systems connected from every direction. water will flow around the entire site, but it'll eventually connect into the ditch in one location.

And the and that leads me to the last thing, the control structure. Uh when I read this, I'm reading control structure and I'm going, okay, is this a mechanical pump or is this what is this thing exactly? And the followup on that is who does the maintenance on this thing? Is this going to be needed over to the city for the infrastructure or does this stay as part of the HOA?

So maintenance will be the HOA. Now when when you do permitting in St. John's Railroad Management District, now you have to sign a they call it a financial obligation certification where you have to have a operation maintenance uh plan. It's a whole another report. In that report, you do engineer cost estimates to go into mowing of the site, um, seedmentation of pipes and all that sort of stuff. And you got to come up with amount of money it's going to cost per year. It gets it's tied into the St. John's permit now. And the HOA will do that.

Is that a one-time report then or do they have to file it every five years or three? Every five years you have to reertify with St. John's and you'll show them what you did so you're in compliance with the permit and that's all going to be on the HOA to do that. The HOA will have to do that

and Joey posy and that's also um besides being a condition of the permit. It's also reflected in the easements and the legal documents that St. John's is now requiring to bind these projects. So they really can just force you your hand if you don't comply which is you know for many years was a big issue. You know how do you come out even though you have a permit how do you come back 10 years and say well you should be doing X Y and Z when you don't have necessarily a legal right other than the original permit well they've solved that problem and the legal documents that you put in place through the HOA covenants that St. John's is now putting in where you cannot modify them even if you want even if you had the votes and also legal easements. They they now are being parties to them and creating these enforcement mechanisms to where they they can they can sue you. That's essentially what it boils down to.

Well, it's it personally affected my family. My daughter had a house in Summer Trees and it flooded in both Ian and Milton. And uh of course what happens out there is the drainage is a responsibility of the HOA but the HOA hadn't really done anything. And when we talked to the HOA they're like well we don't know if we got room in our budget for it or not. I'm I'm going okay it's your job. How does this work? So if this is a St. John's Water Management is going to have a big hammer to force the HOAs to do this. Who's going to go back and and educate the older HOAs that kind of forgot about this stuff? Well, the problem is is that they don't have

the the hammer is for new development. Um, you know, it's it's something and every year there's a maintenance inspection. So, that's those are the new standards that are now being implemented as part of the approvals for the new projects. So, you know, something like summer tree just wasn't subject to those rules, right? And you know, for new development, you you can't just, you know, within a year, you just can't even ignore this anymore. You have to be on top of it. You have to address it. Otherwise, again, the hammer will come. Okay. That's what I was curious about because I've had it.

Scott, uh, so curious, we mentioned, uh, 25% less water going into Spruce Creek extensively. Is, but I've kind of heard it said two different ways. Is it 25% less water in terms of volume or a 25% reduction in the flow rate that's going out or is it both? It's both of them. Okay. Yeah. I I just heard it said different ways both times and I think for the benefit of the audience kind of less water actually making it out is what we're really saying. Meaning that the surrounding communities would be able to take up that 25% less water and that's less than it's currently shedding in its existing state. Is that okay? I just want to make sure I understood it right.

Uh and then I my only other question really is for Jim. Um are you going to be the one who's building the houses here? And it's really more out of curiosity than anything else. I hope so. Well, I'm just curious is it as the developer, are you the going to be the builder as well or is the Typically in bigger neighborhoods we have to sell off part of it, but this at 113 lots is, you know, perfect size for us. So, yeah. I I just I love local people who are doing local stuff because like you said, we're going to run into you at the Publix and Wind Dixie or the Walmart or wherever and so it'd be nice to see that. Absolutely. Thank you. That's it for me, sir.

Okay. Thanks. I got a couple questions uh for Mr. Newkerk there. So, when you talk about you said you said I think you said 30 inches is what you you ran in at 20. 20 in. Are we done? Make me feel better trusting what your numbers are saying. The the the How do you model this? How do you model 20 ines of rain? So in a

we have a we have a there's a computer software that you utilize to to do soar calculations and you you input all the data. You have your ponds, your site, how much impervious surfaces and whatnot, and you tell the model how many inches of rain you want to run in 24 hours, 72 hours, whatever storm events are. DOT has certain criteria. The city St. John's. So, we tell the system how in this case, I told uh my engineer, hey, run it on three of our newer subdivisions. I'm just curious because we actually had a discussion about this before this meeting a couple weeks ago. So, we ran it. So we knew the answer. So we inputed 20 in run in 24 hours. And the way St. John's I mean the way the system runs is it's very simplistic way is rain comes and you like DOT does this curve is like this. It's just real smooth. But St. John has this curve. It goes real like pops.

So it'll be raining and next thing you know you're dumping 10 inches of rain in 5 minutes. Kind of like this afternoon.

Real quick. It's real. If St. John gets it. So they they they it dumps a lot of rain real quick and it puts a lot of strain on the storm system and then you'll see the ponds do the same thing. They come up real quick and it's a very very very conservative design method and it makes the ponds jump up and you actually get a more conservative design with this method. So with with the way the rainfall is distributed in the model, but when we ran 20 in, it didn't it it flew on it it it overtopped a couple ponds, but it didn't flood the site. But you got to think about when you hear something like say at 20 in you over top the the pond. Everybody's over top the pond and you're going to when you flood at that level, you want everybody to flood around the same. So the entire basin is flooding around the same and you don't have this mountain over here. So you want at 20 inches of rain. You want to look across and see the water around the same elevation because then that means everyone's storing levely.

I guess where where I want to go with this is are you modeling against the the the geography against the physical contours of that property with Spruce Creek involved with the drainage ditches with the roads that are in there? That's correct. Yes. With all of it. Right. That's cool. That's all I needed to ask. Mr. J, Mr. Chairman, one last thing while I got you handy. Um, so there is going to be a storm water system in the streets. Is that correct? In the proposed streets. Yes. Yes. The proposed streets will have mining curb be graded to to sheep flow into inlets. Those inlets would then go into dry retention ponds. They'd bubble up in the dry retention pond.

Okay. So, it's not going to be pipe going out to Airport Road. Absolutely. There you go. That's what I was looking for. We We'll do a driveway connection to Airport Road and we will do drainage out in the rideway to keep the water still flowing how it should out there. Okay. Yes. You good? Yep. Anybody else? Thanks, gentlemen. Thank you very much.

All right. We're going to open up to public comment right now. So, um, what we're going to do is raise your hand. Uh, we'll go one at a time. If you've raised your hand, you you don't have have to keep holding it up there. We'll just look around and call on you. Uh, when you come up, give your name, your address, and if you're from out of town, what state you're in, and you got three minutes so they can see the counter, right? They can see that in front of them. All right. Three minutes per. And like I said, try to keep the comments fresh so we aren't rehashing the same same ideas just to make it a little easier. Yes, ma'am. Come on up. And then sir, you're next. I saw you. You won't get an answer. I'm sorry. They won't get an answer,

right? Yeah. This is public comment, so we're not looking for any kind of debate or anything here. Just express your opinions. Thank you.

My name is Jan Albert and I live at 435 Country Circle Drive East, Quiet Place. Been a Valuchia County resident 45 years, a real estate appraiser for 53 with a degree in hydrarology. And basically um I have seen all of every hurricane and all that have come through and I'm not even talking about hurricanes. Where I'm going to disagree with what I've been listening to is that I have kept detailed records of the water flows every day at the creek and they don't correspond necessarily to what falls in Port Orange. And we average 6 to seven 5 in rains a year. I'm not talking about the 11s, the 15s, and the 20s, but these 5 in. And we had a 5 in. We just had a 5 in. And I don't feel that what they're showing is enough to stop it from going into Spruce Creek. And right now we have um you know the meander points on Spruce Creek are completely blocked right now from we we have you know we've had Matthew, Michael, Ian, Helen and Milton and that silt has not cleared any of those meander points which is where the geology of the creek turns you know and so the creek is at the top right now you know and I live on it. I I do own land on both sides of the creek, but um I feel that you're going to need more um in terms of I mean I know they talked about the dry wells, but I think you need more. You need you you need permeable pavements because the two per

acre yes that's the overall density of the site but putting the homes on 60 by 100 ft lots you're concentrating let's say they're I don't know what are they going to be 1,800 square foot homes is that about the size so you're not going to have much sideyards you're going to concentrate all that roof onto the site you And the site is Maka and Astatula fine over Samsula Lomom which is a very poor perkable soil. That's why it's been farmland for all these years you know. So I don't know whether the engineer is taking that enough into consideration because well we see what happens just on these daily rains and you're talking about a swimming pool. So if they're raising these and they're going to have to obviously you're going to be flooding a lot of the area no matter what you do but you're going to need more of the high-tech devices. Thank you.

Thank you Miss Albert. Good afternoon. Mike Ponyowski. I live in the Tmoker Farms Village. My address is protected under FL statute. So, you're about to approve this large-scale development changing density from one house per 10 acres to two house per acre. This is a recipe for sure, a recipe for disaster. Currently, undeveloped land, pasture land, by the St. St. John's water management calculations holds 1.5 million gallons of water for 5 in rain. That means this property holds about 85 million gallons of water. Now, are those ponds going to hold 85 million gallons of water? No. Water doesn't run off the site now, but it will run off when this is done. I own acreage. My land is still holding water from the storms at the beginning of August. I've had 8 in of rain, 8 in of water on my pasture land, and it's just now percolating into the ground. you've reviewed the site plan, you've re you've listened to these experts and you know what? They're doing whatever the regulations say they need to do. They're good to go. So, approve the site. Not really, because the math is wrong. The math hasn't changed in decades. What's changed is the amount of development that these commissions approve. It's building, building, building. And all that storm water has to go somewhere. And where does it go? To Spruce Creek. Spruce Creek hasn't been maintained in about 40 years. All the water that goes into Spruce Creek gets held and it becomes tail water. And that tail water is the flooding that you see every day with rains of two to three inches. Today we had about a 3 in rain. And you all drove through roads that were probably flooded. You probably have flooding in your subdivisions because that's what happens. The development does not allow the storm water to be held on that property anymore. And these ponds are not going to hold 87 million gallons of

water. I guarantee that it's going to flow out into the creek. It's going to pollute the creek and it's going to become tail water and flood all of the subdivisions around it because that's what's happening today. You see it. You've seen it in the media. You listen to people talk about it and it's destroying our homes. Now, I want to be able to give my home to my kids. Well, when you guys approved the Westport subdivision, my home is now flooded in the county twice. my neighbors three times for the tombs of tens of millions of dollars worth of damage. And that water flows from the Westport subdivision. They said they had ponds to hold the water. It does not hold the water. It comes through my property and my neighbor's property because that's the reality. We see the reality. Even though you know what, these are respectable gentlemen. They're professionals, but the math does not add up. The water is going to flood the homes adjacent to it. And then we're left holding the bag or the tail water because we pay for it. Not insurance, not the city, not this commission, not anybody, not even our homeowners insurance. Flood insurance may give you a little bit. So that's why you need to say no to this subdivision because we can't afford the water. Thank you.

Thanks, sir. Yeah. P O N. Yes, sir.

Oscar. Yes. My name is Vincent. I live at 790 Airport Road, which is next door to this subdivision. My pasture got rained last week, 5 in. I got to mow 7 days later to wait for it to park. I just built a brand new house on this 6 acres. I brought it up to what the standard to make my septic tank flow. Now, they're going to bring a subdivision in next door. Raise the property. They won't give me an elevation. I know where my elevation is, but they won't give me any idea what height they're going to be. If they come up 3, four feet, my house will be underwater. If my water cannot flow through that pasture when it flooded out of water's edge from him, the water came through my whole property 12 to 18 in deep and flowed through that pasture to the creek. It's always thrown out. There's a major ditch on my property when that property was 250 acres of a dairy farm. So there's a big swale that goes from the back of my yard all the way to Charles Street. That is what drains the back of my property besides the ditches that flow to the road during Ian. the road, all the ditches, three ditches that drain my property to the connect to the ditch flowed out of there and ran through my property as the water flew out of water's edge. My concerns is my property. Am I going to be in wetlands now when this happens? Who's going to pay for the destruction of my property? You know, I'm just concerned about that. and the road runs up and down my north side of my property. I got to look at those people and wave to them every day.

I don't want to look at those people. I, you know, I don't want to see nobody. That's why we moved there. We've been there for 37 years. And four years ago, we built our house that we dreamed of. And now I'm sitting there wondering what's going to happen in my golden years. You know, I've got many other concerns, but that's pretty much priority. Everybody knows that and that's all I'm here for. Just protect what I have. That's all I ask. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Father Victor Lopez, 2156 Springwater Lane, Court Orange. I'm going to object object to the uh plan that they have starting with page 15 uh according to the city which page 15 of which documents are this is your this is the staff report on page there's two there's two staff reports well yeah we have two projects is this the title is this the master development can you tell us what the number on the front is what's the the number at the top

the number on the front is uh CPAM25 5001 on page 15. Um, basically it says according to the city's comprehensive plan and land development code, a property must be able to manage the storm water or the subjected property after development as it does prior to development or in its current undeveloped state. When they are doing all of these modelings and everything else, they are looking specifically just at this piece. What you don't realize is that property is also part of the surge area for Spruce Creek. When we have hurricanes and heavy waters, that creek overflows. This is the last hurricane. This is that property that you're now looking to develop. Okay? They're going to build it up. They're going to push that water someplace else. That's going to go into the creek, into other people's property. That's in direct conflict with what your code was. Uh, also you state in your um goals, objectives, and policies of the city comprehensive plan that any changes that you make does not adversely impact water quality and quantity or increase the potential of flooding. Well, as you've heard, it's going to increase the potential of flooding. There are a bunch of single wide trailers that are just adjacent to this property. that water, if it's not going into this farmland, is going to go into their homes, the people who are least able to afford it, right? Okay. Um, that's my big objection. Also, the quality of the water, as you know, Bruce Creek is under the OFC and it cannot have any any contaminants going into it. their plan with all of their retention ponds and everything else. We did the models. Gee, it's not going to

go under, you know, normal conditions, but nothing, no pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, bleaches, or anything else can be put into Spruce Creek. They have not accounted for that, and they can't account for it. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Yes, sir. My name is Steve Shino, 3724 Lisa Lane, New Sima Beach. I live in one of those cardboard houses. Okay. Half of the people on the street are 60 and above. We all got hit by some people just devastated, never recovered, just lost everything. Uh I don't know if you're familiar with mobile homes, but they have cardboard floors, okay? They get wet. You can't just tear out the sheetrock 6 in and put in new. You got to do the whole thing. There's no insurance for any of these mobile homes at all. Flood regular. It's all on the fly now. Okay. You just can't do it. And they're putting the retention ponds at the top of Lisa and Lacy Lane where they are. And you just heard from their engineer stating that their ponds will overflow, but it won't flow their development. Where do you think you're going to go? Go down Lisia Lane tomorrow and look at Sploo Creek and see that it's a foot away and it's 14 ft down. Okay. Where's it going to go? And if their little bit overflows into our street, we're gonna get it from Spruce Creek coming up and we're going to get it from them giving it to us. You make the decision. You got to live with it. You know, you may be only, you know, I mean, granted, you don't get paid or anything else, but you still got to have some, I don't know, dignity. The bottom word. This whole state is getting flooded and they're just building more. They just built all that project off of Pioneer Trail and those houses may look pretty as you go by, but you look right

through them cuz not one of them is sold. And you know what? And the people that are going in there buying them, they're looking to the left of it where the go-kart place is and seeing the swamp and say, "Huh, my house is built on this." It's only common sense. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. Who else? Come on up.

Oh, no. Go ahead. One of you.

Good evening. My name is Jay Schaefer. I live in Spruce Creek. fly in. What I heard out of these guys here are a lot of nevers, may hope, and nothing guaranteed by them. And what I learned through education, never always are bad words to use whenever you're doing a presentation because they're not the truth. I do believe they're hiding behind a curtain. Get this development through. They're hiding numbers. They're changing numbers and they'll uh try and convince you all that they know what they're doing. It's obvious if we continue to keep building, we're going to put the plug in the drain. and the drain is going to quit functioning. We're going to back up and we're going to have an entire lake in southeast Valuchia County.

Thank you. Thank you, sir.

Young man in the back. My name is Gary Singleton. I live at 1998 Spruce Creek Circle in Spruce Creek Farms. Uh last night I attended a meeting and I learned that the designs for storm water systems, if they're fully compliant with the state, that they are presumed to be adequate. I have a few questions. Do you follow up to ensure that the designs are working as promised? Are you going to follow up and confirm that there is actually less runoff post development than there was pre-development? Are there consequences for failing to fulfill the promises that are being made today? Are there consequences for producing more runoff? Runoff that floods neighboring properties. We have the engineering calculations and we also have our own eyes. And there are examples throughout this county where you can go and you can watch storm water flow from recent developments into the homes of surrounding neighbors and there doesn't seem to be any consequences out there. Thank you.

Thank you. Let me get somebody who hasn't been up yet. Go ahead, sir. Please bear with me. I'm very nervous. My name is David G. I live in Spruce Creek Flyin. Um I've got some half-hazard notes here. Um first off, um I know that Mr. Pis at his uh company meeting last week mentioned that he's been driving past this property for over 30 years. I can't imagine why a developer wouldn't jump on a property after 30 years except that he had already determined that it was not a good investment or a viable development for those 30 years. And now he's running out of land to address. So, he's going after what's left. What's left is a piece of land that's been underneath the flyway for the Spruce Creek Airport, which was a PUD developed in 1978. You heard testimony tonight that this has been farmland since 1978. There's good reason for that. Spruce Creek Airport is one of the busiest private airports in the world. We run about 33,000 operations per year. On a weekend, we'll have about 160 operations. And that particular piece of land that they're targeting to build these 113 homes on is the specific point that every arriving airplane aims for to join the traffic pattern for the Spruce Creek airport. It's also, as you've heard testified tonight, it's the headarters of the Spruce Creek and it is the overflow drain for when the Spruce Creek backs up. So, it served two purposes since 1978 documented and you're about to violate those two purposes if you approve this development. I don't know what your remedy will be when it doesn't work out the way you anticipate, but I can promise you that you will have the

effects that are being testified here by the citizens tonight. If you go forward with this development, I would ask that you require the developer to require a covenant of every purchaser of these properties that they will never be allowed to complain about airplane noise so that you can protect that modality of transportation which is also recognized by the Department of Transportation called aviation. You've taken care of car transportation with your traffic studies. you need to take care of aerial transportation and protect that flyway. Also, additionally, I know that your staff study only looked at adjacent city properties for your density. They failed to look at the Bowman property, which is one unit per acre, or the property to the south of this proposed development, which is one unit per 5 acres. And so when they say two units per acre is commenurate with neighboring developments, they're only looking north and east, not south and west. I have more to say, but I see my time has expired. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. G. Yes, sir. Just got to ask one quick question. Why can't the developers put some kind of bond in place protecting us? Like if these mobile homes do flood out, why can't they come in, buy us out, and they can elevate, build up as high as they want, and develop that? Why isn't there a simple 30-year blond bond that would protect us so we could sleep at night? Got it. Anyone else?

Oh, there you go.

Hi, I'm Paul Holmes and I live in Spruce Creek and uh I took some notes about what they were saying before and I do agree this is a it's a well-designed project. It's just in the wrong place. It's in the wrong place. This is a lake that forms every time we have a hurricane. That's what it looked like at 2:00 today. This is the property. This is the back of Spruce Creek. And this is what it looks like in every hurricane. It's a lake. It goes back 2,000 ft as a lake. And it's where our water overflows that little berm. And that's the only way we have during a hurricane to get rid of our water. If you trap us in, you are gonna flood one of your highest paying areas in real estate taxes. Spruce Creek is it, folks. If anyone in this room believes you can build up farmland, pave it, and put over a hundred houses on it. and after that put out 25% less water on the surrounding areas during a hurricane. I think we're all being very gullible here. If we actually believe that, like if we in our heart, if we actually believe that that's possible, well, you caught Spruce Creek by surprise. This annex thing that was done, which I think is very shady. You're taking you're annexing in Valuchia County property, making it into your town's property, and then you're shedding the water back into the three portions of Valuchia County that surround Arch. I think it's very unfair. Uh the Swiss Creek BOA has now gotten organized. The property owners

association has already in the last two months raised $350,000 and we're going to be well on our way to a million. We are going to fight this and we are going to hire lawyers, engineering firms, surveyors, advertising agencies, and forensic accountants to find out where the money is going and where is it coming from. We're going to do this to make sure that the public knows what is going on here. We're going to use QR codes. It's so simple. Thank God we have modern science. If you hold up these QR codes, we can put these everywhere in this town. We're going to have them hanging from banners that fly over these properties. We're going to have them under 1,000, no 2,000 ft of southern border showing all the prospects that want to buy that property. We're going to have those QR codes and we're going to have hours and hours of the truth. We're always going to tell the truth. I promise never to lie. I promise to only show the damage it can do. Show the flooding. We got thousands of pictures like this and we're going to tell the truth and it might end up as pay at this.

Thank you. Is there anybody else? I hope it doesn't. What's up? Oh, I think you you have somebody over here who hasn't been Do I? Where was They're only supposed to couldn't see in the corner. Sorry.

Thank you very much. Um, hello everyone. I'm a little nervous myself. I'm Lisa Haymons and I live in Spruce Creek. Um, as a history lover and stuff, I've learned that this is a very rich archaeological area as well if something is to be found. Has it been scanned first? And isn't there a plan in action if something is found while developing? Because this makes me very nervous that we're destroying more of our history. environmental survey. It's public comment so we're we can't just want to point it out. Thank you.

I'm sure the the applicant would love to talk to you afterwards. Anybody else back here trying to get new folks? Nice shirt.

Appreciate it. More formal. Do apologize. My name is Eric Johnson. and I live on 2136 Spring Marley Lane. I'm uh in Spruce Creek with the rest of them. Um but I do live on the southern border. So the elevation change is my primary concern with the development and I would ask the board please limit what they can build up due to the flood issues that we are seeing both as our community but also for the communities surrounding us. that pasture has acted as a filter for taking the flood waters from Ian Milton and every other high rain event that we've had in the past 20 years have had major events. Any elevation change that I didn't see discussed in the plans this evening make a major difference on what the rest of the communities are. So if there's a development plan that can be done to be looking at those whole picture not just the pasture uh for how those waters are acted that would be my main concern and I would hope that would maybe take a pause to consider those actions. Thank you. Appreciate it, Mr. Johnson.

Yes, sir.

My name is Matthew Fitch. I live next to the the plan development there off Charles Street. They talk about they did the where the water level is. They did in the dry season. You go out there now in the last two months, you go see where your water level is now. And during Ian and Milton, the water come across us too and flooded my grandma's house. When they build that up, it's going to stop at us. It's going to form around us and then have to get around their development. But not only that, Spruce Creek, it drains all Samula from Lake Ashby all the way to where it dumps out in the Halifax. That's the only means of drainage through Samula, Lake Ashby. It all come down through there around us. So they talk about they're going to build it up. So it's going to affect the rest of us and continue to circle around us and flood us. They'll be fine. Them houses in there. But you don't take in consideration for all the runoff. them cars that drip oil, leak gas, bring the pollutants off the road into that development. It's going to go through their their thing and get clean, but it's not all going to clean it. Then it's going to go into Spruce Creek. So, it's just then you got people that lived out there that's been a dairy farm for since the late 40s. So, then you got people that move out there for the scenery. I've grown up there. I'm 34. seen it all just cows and pasture land. You're going to put a house in there, you're not going to see the sunset no more. They're going to rip down all the trees that surround that and be no cows in there no more. Thought it's the way of life for a lot of us. So, it's going to take away a beautiful scenery just for

somebody line their pockets like Pis said a lot grab. So, just in for the money. Thank you. Anybody who hasn't spoken yet? Anybody wants to speak? Supposed to come up. Didn't miss anybody around the corner there? No. All right. I've already had you up, sir. We're good. Anybody else? Last call. All right. Public comment is completed. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. By the way, not related to this particular issue, but uh we have a position open on the planning commission here, so you could be up here helping us out.

All right. bring it back to the commission here uh for commissioner comments. Stan, I'll start with you. Um I guess what I was just going to ask the attorney um our attorney is that just to uh reiterate what we're trying to do here. So the the petitioner is asking us to change the zoning and and does Port Orange have anything similar to what those county zonings were? You may not know that. It might be a Tim or Penny uh question.

Shelby Cruz planning. Um so we have so there's two things that the applicant's asking to do to change the future land use designation, right? And then to do the resoning. Um we have an agriculture preservation category which is like one unit per 10, but this also has two categories on it. It also has a density on it that allows four units per acre. So, they're asking for two units per acre. Um, we do have those other categories, but we have to process what the property owner is requesting. That's I just want to make sure because it kind of came up with, well, they're changing the zoning. And that was part of the whole issue. In order to be able to build houses here is you have to change the zoning to get the

well when you annex property. Florida statutes requires you to put a city designation on the property so that you can have full jurisdiction on the property. It doesn't stop at any and this is the first time that the city has designated any zoning on that particular piece of property. Is that correct? We haven't designated anything yet. But I mean this this the first action because it's yeah it it just got annexed in June. I was going to say the next step the next step is for them to apply to change the future land use and the zoning and so that's we're in those next two steps. Right. Okay. Let me pause you because I I didn't see Joey stand. He had some things he needed to fill in here some of the comments I believe.

I appreciate it. Joey Posey 420 South Nova and and I appreciate the comments that I heard. Uh there's a few things that I know we addressed during the presentation, but I do want to reiterate. Um you know, again, we're talking about 25% less discharge. That's that's the key here. Um you know, I saw some pictures, you know, of you know, flooding on the property, etc. That's the existing condition whether what action happens here or not. And the question is is how do we address that condition? and what we're representing and we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and is that it's 25% less discharge and the site's being designed to actually have a management of the storm water. And I just spoke to the client, he has no problem putting a bond in place for the HOA to ensure that that maintenance continues. It's it's not something we're looking to avoid. It's something that the standards of St. John's are moving towards that you know making sure that those future issues don't happen and that there's an accountability. So again if the reassurance that you know our engineer just botched it completely and uh and that the the site is compromised in some way storm we're happy to do a maintenance bond for storm water for the project storm water system. That's not a problem. Um the the other thing I want to mention too is that you know sometimes pictures can be misleading. Uh I I do recall seeing a picture pretty recently from uh uh uh Jim that actually showed the water discharging from this site into that stormwater pond that the gentleman from uh Spruce Creek Flying was mentioning. So I again I'm not here to say which way the water flows doesn't flow but what I'm trying to accomplish here is how do we solve a how do we do an incremental step to solve a problem which is making sure that that discharge rate is less into the creek that there's actual storm water capacity on the project to accept all of the existing storm water that's shedding to it which would include the neighbor's property. We do not want to flood him either.

That's the there is that existing ditch there. We are not looking to compromise that ditch to where it's a problem for him in any way and that that's the stormwater system has to contemplate that too. Um the covenant for the um just to be clear the covenant for the the flying or the flight routes and that there won't be any complaints. We're happy to do that. That was something mentioned in in passing in the presentation. Um we also have to do an environmental study. Um you know again it's like I think one of the gentlemen mentioned it's a dairy farm since the 40s. Um, I can't imagine there's something out there, but you still got to go through the exercise. Um, and the trees are staying. Uh, I I mentioned that in passing, too, that, you know, this is a cleared pasture. It's not a it's not a forested uh piece of land that has, you know, wetlands. It's it it just isn't that. I I understand you know some of the issue or the perceived issue from the neighbors and you know what you know what the fear of the unknown is but um you know in terms of what it is it's a pasture and we've already represented that we have no plans to impact the specimen trees on the site or keeping those pockets of vegetation that it makes sense since it's along the road and can already provide for that vegetative buffer. So I outside of that um I you know I do I do understand where they're coming from and you know I want to try to address problems. Um I've only had three calls at the office um you know to just have a conversation about this project which all we're all cordial. It's just you know it's it's always an open invitation to have that discussion. So, um, other than that, um, you know, again, we're available to answer any specific questions that come out through deliberation, but I do at least want those points to be clear that, you know, whatever motion is made, we're happy to add that condition because, you know, we're confident in our design. Uh, but, you know, if there's any other, you know, feedback or questions that we can address, we're

here and we're happy to have it. Thank you, sir. All right, Stan, you were speaking there. Yeah, I just was asking just to be clear that we're really this isn't a go or no go. This is are we going to zone and are we going to look at this master development plan? I mean, we couldn't say no, nobody can build on this property. That's not our job. Is that correct? No, we're we're only voting on changing the the land use and we're only voting on changing zoning. Right. Just want to make that city. City land use and city zones. Exactly. Right.

But you're right. We can't say no. We can't right prohibit anybody from building on that.

Scott, first I'd like to address everybody who's sitting out there. Uh if you think for a minute that you're not heard, think again. I got pages of notes over here because y'all brought up some things I hadn't considered. I'm going to be honest with you. We uh we read these reports just like you guys have the opportunity to try to draw our conclusions based on what we see. But we also need to hear when you come up and say, "I have a mobile home that's close by and I'm concerned about flooding." Um I have a ditch that's going through that property and the water drains through there. How are we going to be addressing it? and it is on us to ask those questions of the developer and of the attorneys and to get them to come up and propose responses. Um, I've been impressed with the responses that we've seen. I know that it is not going to cover everyone's concern. I completely understand. I'm also a pilot, so I have flown over that property. Um, I'm aware of how it's used for inbound traffic. Um, I'm a neighbor. I'm a real estate agent and I believe in people's property rights. yours as existing homeowners and the rights of the people who are purchasing property who want to build. This is a challenging thing I think for for all of us to listen to this and to see what's coming forward. Projects like this are going to happen. The best thing that we can do is listen and try to propose or to accept the best projects that come our way and then give our advice up to commission and the council to say this is what we think is the best answer. Um, your developer is a local. I've known him for a long time. If he's going to be the one who's building this, I believe that he's going to stand up to what he says he's going to do, and I think he's going to do his best to protect the property that's around him. Um, buildup is required. That is just the new code. If you're going to build a house, they're going to make you build up to a higher elevation. I think they're doing their best that they can

to try to sustain what's going on around you. And I believe that um development is going to happen here. So I I just want you guys to know you're heard. There's not anybody sitting on this board that's not going you guys don't matter. You do. Um somebody brought up money. Uh if somebody's given somebody money, please tell me where I get mine cuz no one has ever come up and said we're going to give you some money for making a decision here. We sit here and make difficult decisions based on being citizens and your neighbors. So, this is difficult for all of us every time one of these comes our way and we take it very seriously. I just wanted to make sure everybody understands that. Um, thank you for the presentations and thank you all for your comments.

Thank you, Scott. Bo did a Scott remarks. Um, I appreciate that. I do have one question for Joey if I if I can. the u the bond that we you mentioned. Uh explain how that would work.

Well, it would be simply that there'd be an assessment of the maintenance responsibility costs, how much it costs to do annual improvement, etc. And my my conceptualization of it is that the city would be probably a party to it in some respect so they're aware of what's going on and that the HOA has to maintain those uh storm water areas consistent with the permit and the as built as designed. And if they don't, there's an enforcement mechanism. You act on the bond, somebody pulls the money out, becomes responsibility of those folks who are negligent and the improvement happens. So there's no debate over who's responsible, when they're responsible, how do we get the money out of them. It's something that would go and it would it would follow the development and as it ages, I would hope encourage folks to do what they're supposed to do rather than having to go to that option. And that's and and again that's the assurance we're trying to create that we don't want a situation like summer tree where you know folks come and go people forget what's happening HOAs change you know they but there's there's never there's never any obligation or consistency that follows and that's what a bond can do. a bond can keep it to where there's an enforcement mechanism through the governing agencies that the HOA has to act or if they don't choose to somebody's going to act for them and there's money put aside to make sure that that happens.

Okay. The other question is the assertion that there'll be a 25% reduction and how do how do we how do we know that? I mean in conclusion we say this development goes in and we don't have 25% reduction. I mean what I I I really don't understand that. Well again I can have the engineer speak to the specifics but the the as design it has to function that way right

if it doesn't then it's a failure of the design that it wasn't designed to the appropriate standard. But do we know that with a 25% reduction that there's going to be no impact on on the surrounding areas? But I think to re maybe recate or maybe rephrase that a that makes it easier. I mean you have an existing condition which is the water sheets in all directions in its current way as the property flows.

Right. Our obligation is to ensure that our design at the 100redyear storm water standard also has a 25% reduction into the discharge offsite 2. So we're obligated to make the situation better. We have to that's that's verbatim in the PD. Okay. Thank you. Otherwise we violated the PD. Yeah. It's a breach of contract. Thank you, Joe. That all I got, folks. Yeah, it's all I got. Mario, your thoughts?

Lots of thoughts. Um, first of all, I joined this board to stop developments like this because if it were up to me, every piece of empty property in Port Orange or heck, even Valuchia County, I would be perfectly happy if they were all turned into parks. But that is not feasible. You want to turn your house back into a park?

I would love to turn my house actually. you don't want to know what I did on that property as a teenager. So, let's go back there. However, it's just not feasible. Um, legally, it's not feasible and it's just not realistic. Um, unfortunately, um, I've lived in Port Orange my entire life. I now live in W's Edge. Um, and you have to realize that you're getting if you're getting water from W's Edge that I've lived there for 14 years. I don't even remember when that development was built, but you have completely different um things to abide by now than you did there from a storm water perspective and an engineering perspective, hurricane, building, the whole nine yards. I mean, things are vastly different. Um, and projects like this, like Scott said, they're going to happen. Unfortunately, if it's not this one, it'll be another one. We'll be sitting here again. So, what we have to do as a board is we have to evaluate with our brains and our hearts what's the best option. And as you can see, we've reduced how many homes are going to be there already. And and that helps. I mean, it's not going to be perfect. It's never going to be perfect. Can we 110% say they're going to retain 25% less? No. You can't. You don't know. We could have some supertorrm and we will never know. But the fact that Pis is going above and beyond what's required of him to try to help that situation, that's what we have to think about cuz the next developer that comes along may not. And I'll tell you, I've been sitting on this board probably 10 years, and most developers

don't. They don't care that you want better storm water, 24 25% or whatever the case may be. So, the fact that he cares means a lot to us as a board. And at the end of the day for me, Penny's one of the smartest people I know and I have to trust the staff that they've done their due diligence to make sure that PIS does his due diligence and that's where we are unfortunately. That's all I got. Good, good thoughts. Good thoughts. Um yeah. Uh

yeah, when I saw this come coming forward, it was like, oh man, cuz I don't want anybody's house to flood. I really don't. I want my house flood. I don't was Mr. Faltt. I don't want anybody's house to flood. But as we talking earlier, sir, we're done with public comment. Thanks. Um this this is we we have we have to deal in the facts here. We have to deal we we we have to look at what the numbers say. And I one of the things two of the things that I always looked at is the traffic Mhm.

and and water. And I would hear traffic counts come forward and they'd read off how many daily trips and how many in the morning, how many afternoon, and I'd sit there and go, "That is just full of crap. There's no way that that's all the cars they have on that road." And so I would sit in Tim's Tim's office. I went over there. I would sit for hours and we would look at traffic numbers for all these different roads, real traffic numbers, counts, and then we'd look at the the traffic flow because when we get these reports, you'll see that if they're going to put in uh uh Dutch Brothers Coffee Shop at the corner of Taylor and Dunlot, right, they'll show you how many cars are going to come to and from that location all the way out to Ridgewood and up 95 and down 95 and over into the flying. And I still didn't believe it. I said, "You're full of crap. These numbers are just made up. There's no way this could be right." So, I found a third independent source that had a traffic system. You could run your own traffic pattern flow reports. Said, "This looks cool. I'll prove these guys are wrong." Sure enough, it was all right. All the numbers came just like they said. And that's why they've got the traffic manual. There's a traffic manual that's been around for decades that says if you've got a coffee shop going in in a location, here's how many trips you're going to get in and out. Now, I don't know water hydraulic hydrarology, I guess, is the the term. I don't know how water flows. We all look at it and we go that's downhill. That's where the creek is. It's going to flow out to the river and it's got to get somewhere. And if we put more houses in, it's going to going to uh put more water into it. Yeah, I we all look at it and go, this is where the this is where the water's going to go. I don't know what happens when you put a house on a piece of

property. I don't know what happens when you put 113 houses on the property if you put in all these retention ponds and the detention ponds. I'm working off the numbers. I have to go off the numbers that the engineers give us and say, "Here's how it's going to work." And that's what we've got to face up here. And based on the numbers, he says they're going to have 25% less than what's already on that property and 25% less outflow in terms of velocity, speed, whatever it might be. On the other hand, I got to look at the other things from the from the good side. He's got sidewalk going in on both sides of the streets. And I have been a proponent of that forever. If you aren't putting sidewalks in a subdivision, you just

that's just not right. And he's not coming back and asking for a variance on sidewalks.

He's not asking for a variance on trees. He's keeping all the specimen trees. And we that's one of our biggest things here. He's not asking for any variance or any deviation from what the normal land use and the normal zoning would be. And those are all good things. So, I like I like that. Um, that's it. That was it. Those are the things I've got going on. So, anybody else got a comment up here? That's all my ideas. I don't know. Let's see. Um, if no other comments, we'll go ahead and assume you're ready to vote on. We'll do the first. We'll do uh each one separately, but we'll do a vote right one after the other.

Mr. Chair, question. Yes, ma'am. um with the addition of the bond um that Mr. Pis is going to do, do we need to add that in somewhere? Because we've learned our lesson with that in the past. So, we don't want any lesson learning. We want to make sure the bond is here in there. If that's what we're going to do is planning. Um, if the applicant is stating that they are committing to that and making that a requirement, then I suggest that you amend your motion to for the the second item for the master development agreement that they add that requirement into the master development agreement prior to this item being scheduled for city council.

And also the representations and stipulations in the PowerPoint because those are not also on your report. to the point regarding your covenants correct

if they want to add that. And again, there's there's a section in the MDA that speaks to um covenants and restrictions and things like that. Um so if that is the pleasure of the board, they are committing to do that. If it is your pleasure that you want them to make that required language in their master development agreement that they have to commit to um then you would amend your motion for your MDA that that language be added and reviewed by staff um and may ensure that it's there prior to this item going to city council. How much? Covenant and bond. Do you want to make that motion there or

Well, let's Why don't we do the first one? Oh, that's good idea. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. So, we'll do the first first uh first case because that's the the rest of it is in the second one. Um so, uh we have a motion and a second on this particular issue. So, we'll be voting on the uh land large scale comprehensive plan amendment, which is CPAM-25-00001. clerk, if you call the role on that one. Do I still call him? Yeah. Uh, as previously stated, I must abstain. Scott, yes. Daniel, yes. Yes.

Thomas Jordan, yes. All right. Four, I guess four zero then. That passes. All right. Uh, so we're moving on to the resoning, the PUD resoning case, which is PRZA-25-00003. We have a motion and we do have a second. Do you want to try and make a motion to? So, we need to amend the motion for case number PRZA-25-00003 to add the covenant and the bond to be reviewed by staff before the next council meeting and added as required language. And added as a required language. Do you need a motion to amend?

That's an a motion to amend. I'll second the motion to amendment. That's what she said, right? As long as as long as your terms are going to work with the legal people, I will second your amendment. Amended motion. Right. So now we vote on the amendments. But can you second? Oh yeah. He made the second on your Oh, okay. No, you made the second on that. I was say and I will second, but I have a question. Are you good with the with what's she said? So you're strictly your motion. So we're amending the motion. Yeah. The motion was to approve and now she's amending it to add the bond.

That's what I'm saying. You're you're you're saying I think you're we're saying two different. You're you're trying to do an amended motion and I think first we're just motioning you got to get a consensus to amend the motion. That's you wanted to say make a motion to amend uh and add required language. Yeah. I thought that's what I was doing was getting consistent to amend Then you'll amend it. Okay. So I need two steps. Yes. Yeah. Oh, two steps, not one. Got it. Yeah. So I need a vote to amend the motion, right? To add the bond and the covenant. You're making a motion to amend your motion. A motion to amend my motion. Okay. Got it. I'm not adding that yet. Right. And then you're

I will second that. Okay. Now we vote. Got it. Call the roll on. Sorry, folks. Procedures. Amen. Again, I must abstain. Yes. Mario, yes. Yes. Yes. All right. So, motion is approved to amend it. You want to read out what you want to amend it as? Motion to approve case number PRZA-25-00003 adding the covenant and the bond to be reviewed by staff before the next city council meeting. And I will second for discussion. I have a question. She didn't put any required language in doing and add Yes. as required language. Okay. Very good. Is that good?

Yes. Second. But I have a question for discussion. Okay. Go ahead. Should we have a an amount and a time frame on the bond? Would the bond be per perpetual? And does there need to be an amount that's commensurate with the maintenance costs or something along those lines specifically? Doesn't the bond already automatically have an time frame? and I'm not familiar that's why I'm asking maybe Joey can answer that. Well, the the amount I can't uh specify but I can say that it's based on the engineers estimate for the cost of the improvements, the ongoing maintenance and the overall life of the project. Um that I think that we just talked briefly that 30 years is probably the uh

useful life. I was going to say I thought they were typically about 30 years and I had no idea why I asked the question and we've done these before where staff staff understands the intention here and they can work out the details with legal and I'm good with that. I just I thought I heard someone from the audience ask the question. I want to make sure we're clear. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. All right. Uh you made the motion. Do you second it? Yes. Okay. Great. Uh roll call on amending the original motion, right? No, this is the amended motion. Thanks. I again have to abstain. Scott, yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Motion carries. I got any more votes on that one? You're good. All right. All right. Good. All righty gang. Thanks everybody. We suspect you're all leaving. You don't want to stay around and hang out for one more minute to disperse. We're going to take a short intermission in while y'all clear out. If you want to talk to the applicant or the attorneys, grab them out there and let them know and reach out to him. Man, that one was an internal battle. [Applause] the shortest ever took a look. Yeah. But I think that was the first one where I actually felt like I needed to really do some studying homework and understanding of this

cuz we haven't had a subdivision for a long time.

No. And honestly, I I could use another two weeks after this because there were a lot of discussion questions and I'd really like to Well, yeah. This public item agenda on the agenda here is a request for land development code text amendment uh updates. Sir, I thought you were going to stay. Oh, yeah. Okay. Let's amend chapter nine

of the land development code as part of an effort effort to update the land development code. Motion to approve case number DCAM-25-00004 LDC text amendment chapter 9. Thank you very much. We have a motion and we have a second. We got that from Stan Penny.

Hi, good evening cruise planning. So, the proposed amendments um to the land development code are related to water dependent uses such as marinas and residential docks and boat houses. And as part of our ongoing um LDC maintenance effort, as you know, we try to bring forth a few amendments to kind of slowly just clean up the code as as we can throughout the year. Um so, they're intended to improve and update the LDC as it it responds to these uh residential and commercial docks. So the first item in the in the packet is regarding a terminal platform for a residential dock and it's currently limited to a maximum width of 8 ft in area and not to exceed 160 square ft. If the board recalls, um, there was a variance back in, uh, last year in 2024, and staff noted that the city's regulations for these residential terminal dock platforms hadn't been updated in over 30 years. And we were actually directed by the planning commission um to to go back and kind of evaluate our existing codes with regards to this um, and seeing if an amendment was warranted. And so that's why we're here before you tonight with with these amendments. Um and that kind of direction applies to all the rest of them that are coming is um that variance included a request included a variance for multiple features of residential dock requirements and in all those cases um our requirements hadn't been updated in over 30 years and we were asked to take a look at that compare what other C's requirements are and if needed bring back an amendment which is why we're here before you tonight. So, um, upon comparison of those current requirements from, um, the neighboring jurisdiction, staff did find that our regulations appear to be outdated and could be revised to reflect advancements in marine equipment, modern construction materials, boer and residential resident safety, larger boat sizes, and to provide more functional space for homeowners to place outdoor furniture, safely maneuver around their dock to better align with um, modern practices. So, you can see the table that's on the presentation as well as in your packet.

um that other jurisdictions and FD FDOT allow residential terminal platforms that range in size from the 180 square feet to up to 1,000 square ft with no restriction on the width of the terminal dock platform. So the proposed amendment before you is to change the city requirement to remove that 8ft width restriction and to increase the maximum allowable um area to 500 uh square feet to align with those standards of adjacent cities and the current FDP standards.

Cool. Okay, the next one is regarding uh residential boat house height. Um, currently we allow a height of 12 feet above the water level at the mean high water line. Um, similarly we this was part of that variance request in 2024. We looked back at um some you know what the other standards are and again found that our standards to be out of date and in in need of of um update. So comparing that, um, other cities allow a maximum boat height that range from about 15 feet to 18 feet. So this proposed amendment would change our maximum height to that 18t height to kind of align with those other um adjacent cities. Um, and the intent of that is to better accommodate the larger boat sizes that we're seeing, modern boat lifts, boat equipment features, and to respond to rising tides and water levels, which are expected to continue to increase in the future. The next one with regards to residential docks is um setback requirement. So our code right now has had um only a setback for residential docks for properties that are um 65 ft in width or larger

or larger. Yeah. So, if you're if the property is less than 65 foot in width along that shoreline, basically we've just been implementing for the past 20 plus years the FDOT standard um because we don't have a standard in our code um that they basically has you um center the dock in between the property lines. So, we're just basically codifying that FD standard that we've been implementing for over 20 years. Um, and also adding the provision that FDOT allows um to adjacent single family property owners to to share doc structure and um subject to a setback waiver. And we have that setback waiver document that they use that we be able to use and and record. The next item, the last item is moving out of the residential side going into the commercial side for marina sighting standards. Currently, the land development code limits the finger peers of marinas to a maximum width of 3 feet in width. Um, and so basically, again, staff has explored what other communities have. FD um looks like, you know, our code is outdated. Most people allow a little bit larger, especially to accommodate ADA standards. Um, and then just say providing more space safer for the boers to to access the boats. So, we're looking to just increase that from that 3 foot wide to 4 foot wide width there um to accommodate that. So, that include Yep, that's everything. That includes all the amendments for this current cleanup um that we're doing and chapter 9. I'm here to answer any questions you have.

Stan, any questions? No. Scott? Uh, no, not at all. both. Didn't we deal with this in 24? Wasn't there a similar issue? Yes, that's what I stated before. There was a variance that came in 2024. They asked for variance. Yes, they asked for a variance for many of these items when we explained during the presentation in the stash report about how our stand, you know, what our standard is and how it's been outdated. You guys asked us to go back and and do some more research and and determine if we need to do a code amendment and that's why we're here. That was a long time ago. Come on, Bo. Keep up. You're good. I forgot what we did yesterday.

Yeah. Thank you. I'm good. Uh the only question I had was on the and I this totally off this sort of off subject. The shared dock on on on uh for two property owners. Does one of them have to own it or how do what happens if if property A sells later and the new owner that's there? So there's they have a they have a legal document that DOT uses and we would use that same document if somebody want we haven't had that request yet. Yeah. I because it's something that is that's common that um we had some requests but we haven't had anybody like actually go through with it but it's another provision that FD FDP allows. So Oh okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So if it's shared because they put it right on the property line is that

it depends. I mean where they Yeah. I mean, you could, but they there, you know, how they want to design it. I just wonder how it would fit in the rules. Okay. No, I think it's a great idea to blow that. That's good. Good, good, good. Um, yeah, I don't think you could put it actually on the property. You still have to meet the setback requirements. So, if one of the lots It's just that they would get to share it and there would be it's almost like an easement then. Yeah. It's really just a barrier from whether you put it in the middle of the lot. Yeah. To put it off to the side and share it. That's not for you. That's what they get paid to do, right? Right. You can be able to settle that. All right. Great. Um, anybody else? No. No. All right. You want to call? We have a motion in a second on this one. Stand. Oh my god. Robert, you're forgetting. We cannot let him go home.

Public comment, man. Our public, come on up. Public comment. You're going to get this chance to speak, too. Hit us up. Why? Why? Commissioners Robert Reinhagen, 1425 Dix Drive, Port Orange. Uh my only question has to do with um residential and um for for marine sighting. A11 says no fingerp should be ex shall exceed 4t in width. But then the next uh section B3 says no finger pier should exceed 3 feet in width. And so should that be four feet also? Did we miss one? Pen instruction.

Pen, you want to you want to I'm not sure where you're at. Thank you. Yes. So, we specifically um consulted with our engineering staff who reviewed the dock permits and and asked that question as well because we we had the same question. Um the only place that this comes up as an issue is the commercial marinas and there wasn't a need to to widen that for residential fingerps. So, there was there's not an issue there that we've ever run into. So they said for them that's we have the standard we have now for the on the residential side is fine residential versus marine. Okay. Thank you Robert. Good catch. Last chance tonight. We're going to give you

all right. Now we can move on and uh do a vote. Right. Good. All right. You want to call the roll a minute? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes ma'am. Thank you very much. Very good. Any other business? I have uh commissioner's comments. Where are you?

No, I I was just going to say this tonight was rough. You know, we feel so bad for the residents, but we have a duty to do on legality and and city standards and stuff. And I just want to thank the staff. I mean, I think at the end of the day, this is the best plan we're going to get. and I know that they've done their due diligence to make sure it's the best it can be to protect all the residents. So, I appreciate them.

Mr. Bo, I uh I just wanted to say that I the staff never ceases to amaze me with the detail and and the research that goes into these presentations. And uh I I think we probably got probably got the best of the crop here. And uh poor orange, great job. Absolutely. I echo that. Scott,

I I echo both of what you guys said. Um you come into this and you have to look at these reports and go, I absolutely trust the people who wrote them and not knowing Tim or Penny or really anybody when I first came in. Um the level of detail that goes in and the level of trust that I think we have to have uh on this panel is high. You have to be able to go I believe what that person says. And I I think what I was trying to say earlier when the the crowd was here,

I have spoken to committees like this more times than I can count. And oftentimes I've walked away going, they not listen to me. They've already made their decisions. They've already all of this is already figured out. Um what were you saying? Yeah, exactly. But sitting here now and hearing them speak, I'm making notes and going, I hadn't considered that these are things that are very important. We need to go back. And I think, you know, even our applicant went, okay, I heard you. Here's some. So, it I think it's just evidence that this really does work if people will come out and actually speak and speak their minds and speak it clearly and articulately. I'm just proud to have been had the opportunity to serve.

It was a good good actually a good night cuz it was relatively civil and and uh a lot of great information. I agree with you. I agree with you. I didn't come in with my mind made up. My mind changed 30 times just sitting here. really haven't really had an experience like this in quite a while because we haven't had subsision we've had since the phone tower actually no it was my first night as chairperson um when I was chair this last term it was my very first night remember we had a crowd they were spilling out the door and it was my first night I was like oh it was rough that was the last time we had a night like this at

I don't even remember [Laughter] All right. Uh, hey, great job. Thank you, uh, Tim Penny for helping. I mean, that you guys do great work. Uh, we got one more thing here, and that is staff comments. You have any comments? I'm good. Thanks. Oh, yeah. It's time. Yeah. New policy. Someone asked me, "How do I get in the list?" And I said, you know, people always ask me that. I think the magic number is 995. [Laughter] All right, last opportunity for public comments. Uh, Robert, anything? No. Yeah, you good. We're

good. Introduce yourself. We're hungry, though, so make it short. I should have. My name is Russell Ramsey. We just moved to 1016 Wexford Way. Oh, welcome. Oh, cool. We moved from New Hampshire 10 years ago. and we chose Port Orange. I was in the real estate business, so I did all my due diligence and I chose Port Orange. Nice.

Um, I got the bug, so I sold. We lived in our motor home for 5 years, lived in Beachside. Mama wanted to come back to Port Orange. We chased from Edgewater to Palm Coast to Dan and we just bought on Wexford Way. um first we moved in 1st of March. I've been attending these meetings. This is my first planning board meeting, but I've attended the um code enforcement meetings. I've attended the council meetings and I am thrilled at the quality of the volunteers and the staff in Port Lunch. Oh.

Uh it I come from a a real estate background. I own my own company. I had people working for me. I come from the securities industry. I I did real estate, insurance, investments. I built homes. Um, and the people here are just spot on. I'm just thrilled. I'm coming just to learn. I'm coming just so that I can tell my neighbors. I went to the meeting and those guys are doing this. I was telling my neighbor, how come Oak Street in Jackson is still wide open? You know, and everybody thought it was just a contractor problem. Well, it's an FPL problem. It's what it really boils down to, you know, and so I'm I kind of like to know what's going on and I want to thank you guys for it was a tough meeting. Um it was a tough meeting and and you guys had to make a tough decision. So, thank you for your volunteer work.

Well, you know what? We've got a chair for you. We just made the pumpkin bread list. I'm not sure. Thank you for saying you could thank you for saying all of that. That means a lot to us because this really is a hard job and thank you for showing up to meetings and caring about the community because that means a lot to us as well. And someone recorded that right. Good choice in picking a new home. Oh, great. Anybody else? Nope. Seeing none, I assume we're all ready to adjour the meeting. Motion motion.