City Council - Regular Meeting

Please rise for silent indication followed by pledge of allegiance. Amen. I pledge of allegiance [clears throat] to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Will the clerk call the role? Here everybody's here tonight. Good. Item four, public comments on consent agenda items only.

Where is Robert? Public comments on consent agenda items. We'll check on him later. Make sure he's okay. All right. Seeing none, can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda items? Move to approve items consent agenda 5 through 8. Second. Have a motion and a second to approve. Yeah. Approve consent agenda items. Score. Call the role. Council. Yes. Council. Yes. Council Green. Yes. Yes. Mayor. Yes. 5. Item C. Public participation non-aggenda. Is this the only one I have? Yes. Okay. Uh Joey Posey to speak on Palin Acres. Welcome.

Welcome.

Uh Joey Posey, 420 South Nova. Um almost said my usual thing. I It's different being on this side of it. And um I I just wanted to take us um a little time and I appreciate you you know being able to speak at public comment and you know having this opportunity that um you know to comment on the last hearing and all of the discourse that we had going back and forth with neighbors that we had heard. Um again u even on our end going back to the drawing board trying to figure out you know what can we do to make this project the best project it can be. But uh you know the the thing that I want to you know stress and and try to create some urgency is that um you know the opportunity is here. Like the opportunity to try to find the best project is here. And I I really would be remissed if we missed an opportunity to continue to [clears throat] close off that discussion that based on what we heard that night, how to find a way to address the concerns we heard from the neighbors to um to make the design tweaks that we think that will be good neighbors and um actually plead to you guys that I think by implication of what resulted from that night that we're foreclosed by the hope we we don't get another chance at that. We don't get to have another look at this. And and again, I'm I'm first to admit that there's there's no commitment being asked for. If the answer still ends up being a no, it's a no. That that's not that's not why I'm here. Why I'm here is to not give somebody who wants to make an attempt at it an attempt to do something that he can do for the best for the community. And um you know again I I think the only path forward to make that happen uh in accordance with your code is actual uh council discretion to uh bring that forth. So you know that would be the plea from our end and um you know of course everybody's on a timeline and trying to keep these

projects alive to you know why you have why the iron's hot you know trying to make the changes we can. So um you know we have a small window here to make that happen. So, if there's a way to get there, um, you know, I would appreciate it if we at least the, you know, there's a deliberation by this body to have that discussion and to at least give us the opportunity to come back and try to work through the process again, subject ourselves to the discourse and, you know, again, engage neighbors. That's that's what we're trying to do. We're not we're not trying to shy away from it. And, you know, I would hope that uh we at least get that u that u at least consideration here. regardless [clears throat] of what the outcome ends up being. Um, and that's that's all I have. So, with that, I close my comment. Thank you. Thank you. [clears throat]

And that's the only one for tonight. Yes, sir. All right. On to council comments. We'll start with Councilman Foley. Welcome, sir. How you doing? I missed you guys. Uh, just only comment is that just a reminder that in two weeks, um, I will I may miss the meeting. I'll be flying back in that day. I intend to try to get here, but um I had no concerns, but watching the air traffic delays get worse and worse and worse, I just want to make it y'all aware there's a chance I won't be here in two weeks. Otherwise, I got nothing for you. All right, Councilman Grubs, I probably should have started with you. You're the best dressed tonight. Two eggs.

They have a county council meeting today and [clears throat] I got to finally go over there and see them and uh I will say their meetings run way longer. Thank god they start in the morning cuz it'd be 2:00 in the morning finishing. But uh they they happen [clears throat] on Tuesday, same day as us. So generally we can't get over there. So I got a chance to go over um trunk [clears throat] or treat. Wow. Wow. Staff, everybody that uh was involved in that was just amazing. Um, Willow Run overflow uh went from city center all the way down to the end of Hidden Lake Road. Both sides.

Yeah. Both sides deep. It amazing event that happened. So, congratulations on doing a fantastic event for Parks and Rex and everybody else that was involved to make that happen. Um, I know it takes a team to do that. Um, uh, shout out to the finance department. They don't get a whole lot of hearsay. Sometimes everybody goes finance, [clears throat] but finance department uh winning the contest for the pumpkins [laughter] was absolutely awesome. But not not [laughter]

the finance department. One of the things that I want to point out with them is with the new Tyler system that was implemented by them. One of the things that it does is it sends out multiple emails, multiple uh ways of contacting people that they used to have to do manually. And because of that um they've they've multiple emails going out for the water bill. They've actually had a 70% drop and decrease of shut offs. Now that's huge. you know, that's us not going out having to take care of somebody and shut their water down and things of that nature. It's us being with them as a good patron to them back and forth and getting the water bills taken care of so we're not having to shut people off, which is by no means what we want to do, but a 70% because of a new computer system. So, thank finance department for getting that going. And that's that's been a yearly average now that it's been turned on. that's happened. So, it shows that the money that we spent with this new system, even though it was a reduction in cost for the overall city, it also helped us with manpower, that we're not having to spend hours and manpower time. So, that's actually a savings in itself, too. So, so shout out to the finance department. That's all I got.

All right, [clears throat] Council Ger, did you want to yield to Councilman Green first? Yeah,

I saw that. Councilman Green. Um, again, I went to the trunk or treat and wow, what what a what a showing. It was uh absolutely slammed and uh what a great uh what a great event and a lot of our volunteers and it was pretty cool. Um, I do want to comment on uh on Mr. Posy's uh speech, I guess, or his his two minutes and and I want to talk about that project and again what I think how I feel what happened at last meeting. Um, I don't, in my opinion, I don't think we treated this developer correctly and I firmly believe that if we were not going to to consider his land use with that project, we should have never let him annex. We should have never let him done it. If we were going to say no, we should have said no at annexation like Councilman said at the meeting. And um personally, I think it's it's a good project. I think it's smart growth. And I think overall we need, you know, we still need new construction in Port Orange because we're losing houses by tens of 10 houses a year to FEMA being down. We have no new houses coming online. We're going to be no more new houses in the next 5 years. We're going to be built out. So, and I personally think this is a smart project, but if we were going to turn him down, we should have turned him down in annexation and not not let him go through everything that we've been through now and then say, "No, we're not going to let you do it." I am of the opinion that based [snorts] on their uh willingness to to modify and to come to the table again, to possibly make changes again to make the project work. I would like to make a motion to have

the 12 month waiting period to resubmit this project waved for this project. Right now, there is a 12-month waiting period before he could resubmit this project with potentially any changes on it. I would like for us to at least wave that, let him come back, and let's bring it back again to a full council. I'll second that for a matter of discussion. Okay. You have a motion. Restate the exact motion you're making again. Now, I'm making a motion to wave the 12 month resubmitt frame to bring the project back or to resubmit the project.

The same project. The same project or or an amended project or to resubmit, I guess, is what am I saying that right? Yeah. Let me [clears throat] I'll just help you with the code site because I think it'll be beneficial. So, chapter 3, article 1, section 7, once a reasonzoning is denied, u an applicant or or any individual for that same piece of property cannot come back with a relication for 12 months. So, I believe what you're you're saying is you want to wave that provision. That provision does allow for city council to make an exception. So, unless council makes an exception, there is a 12-month waiting period now for that property to come back with any reasonzoning application. um you can wave that tonight. I think that's what's being requested.

So that that's why I'm that's the motion I'm making is to wave the 12-month resubmitt. So to let them because again I I think they're they're willing to to bring this back to us based on our comments based on the public comments. Um and again I firmly believe that u they they should have a full council up here when that comes back before us. Okay. We we'll have discussion on. We got a motion in a second on the floor. Clerk, do you have you understand that motion?

Okay. My my my first comment would be that for something like this, it should be an agenda item. Um I I don't recall this particular type of motion or consideration for a decision. The entire time I've been on city council, I don't have we ever had anything like this? Not to my knowledge. Five, six years. Um so I lay down some ground work.

Well, [laughter] so we typically don't We don't do business the people's business on especially items that don't have a a major urgency without them being agenda items so that the public can come and speak to this and and council can have the opportunity to consider things like this. So my my first inkling would be if if council wants to put this on a future agenda to be considered I think that that is actually appropriate. Um that's the format it should be done. I don't think that should be voted on during general council member comments for something so significant. Obviously seeing the amount of public interest in that particular topic. Um I I would just say that the the annexation and the project being brought forward are two different things. I I don't recall anybody saying that nobody ever wanted to see any development or project ever on this property. I think everybody had some concerns. The public clearly has some concerns. My concerns were specifically to the project itself that was brought, the density that was brought, and the fact that the county has a master storm water study for that specific basin area and and the impacts of what more development would be as as well as what that area can truly deal with. We ironically what a week and a half after we had that meeting we saw this massive rain event again

30 miles south of us. I think every single one of us knows if that would have been 30 mi north tonight's meeting would be totally different

and full of people and devastated homeowners again. That's my thought on that in terms of what I was thinking in that project and and other aspects of it. Um but that being said I'll give everybody a chance to weigh in on it. Do you want to go ahead? So I [clears throat] was going to actually talk about uh not the project itself but the process. Um we we are an elected body of five individuals to represent our constituents in our city. And on that particular night we did not do that. We had a we had four members here. And I believe that when we have items like that that are significant to this city financially, we would not do our budget hearing with four members. We would not take a vote with four members. We would have probably tabled it till we had full representation of the city. That's what that's what the citizens deserve. That's why there's five and not four. We had a two- two vote on a huge project that would have that whether it was going to pass or not with five of us here. We didn't give it that chance. We owe that to the people who are investing in our city and we owe that to the citizens who have elected us to be up here to take those votes. And we did not give that developer that opportunity. and and that and I I I I shared my concern about that that night. It came off as being a bully or uh trying to strongarm the two of you to change your mind. No, I didn't want you to change your mind. I wanted you to give the citizens of the city what they have in our charter, which is five voting members on this council, and we failed to do that. So to me, uh, bringing it back, I don't think we need,

uh, we're not we're not changing the code. We're asking for an amendment to the code to bring back the project. That's what Lance is asking for. We're not we don't need a public hearing, so we're not changing code. We're just doing an amendment to it, making a decision. We're we're making a decision to to um to not to is it would it be considered an amendment or or like a variance or you're just exercising a provision of the code? It's in the code that you have the authority, city council, to wave this 12-month waiting period. Correct. So, you're just exercising provision. It's already in your code. So, it's already in the code that we can make a decision tonight without it being a public hearing because the and and I'm not I'm not trying I'm not saying you But I just want to be clear. Yeah.

I'm not saying you can't.

Okay. What I'm saying is should is that the right thing for us to do and consider that as opposed to something of that significance? Clearly, look, there's not a lot of meetings where we have people standing in the hallways and outside, right? So, we know there's a massive amount of public interest in that particular project and the decisions anybody will ever make in in these kind of projects. And all I'm saying is I think that it would it would come across as a significant amount of distrust in the public for us not to have that this particular motion on an agenda item for people to come back and talk about if they if they believe that the elected body should exercise that authority to make that decision to bring it back within the 12 sooner than the 12 months. That's all I'm saying about that.

And I'm okay with that as well. I'm certainly okay with that to put it on the agenda so people can come up and speak on in reference to uh waving the 12-month requirement because the the 12-mon requirement so everyone can understand was when this city was exploding with growth and the staff was being overwhelmed with with if if if this council said no to something because they didn't like the size of it, they they were coming back within I remember quickly causing a burden on the staff and there was just a lot of we were moving a lot of projects. We have slowed down since we've we've slowed down in development considerably over the years. Uh correct me if I'm wrong, but you've been on the planning board. You in the last 5 years, you've seen less. I mean, just think about residentially outside of the project in Towns West, which was in the plan since 2005, the project behind Sugar Mill, there hasn't been a lot of development. So, it has slowed down. So, I could see back prior to back in 1999 to 2005, we were exploding. I mean, Wat's Edge was being developed in 1996 and then you had uh Pinnacle Park and Ashen Lakes and Sable Creek and all those developments. So there was a reason why they wanted to give time a a cooling off period. We don't need that now. So if we bring it back to public, put it on the agenda so the public can speak. They just need to understand it's on allowing them to do it within 12 months. And I have no problem with that. Tracy.

So, the 12-month issue uh was brought up to me, and as a business owner, I I agree with you, too. Um I do believe it needs to be an agenda item with those same folks. If they want to come and talk to us about it, that's perfectly fine. I don't think needs to be a voting decision tonight on it, but I think it needs to be on the next agenda to allow public to come out. As far as uh a disservice or discord um of what we did as far as four individuals, I disagree with you. Um, the applicant had complete control of that of pulling that agenda item to have five of us sitting up here, the applicant. And they did not. So, the vote went through. Sometimes you have to live with what you get. I deal with that every day in business, just as Lance, I know you in business and Scott and all of us up here do. So, the 12-month period, um, I'm not going to say, uh, we're going to stick to that as far as my vote. I would war and oblige to have somebody come forward, uh, simply because you should not impede business, but it's got to come to council with the right appetite for us to decide this is the right thing for that area. So again, it goes to a vote and it is what it is. But if he wants to bring it back, I'm okay with it.

County. Yeah. Um well, a [clears throat] couple of things and and I'm sorry I'm I'm a little sidetracked here, but just because it was brought to my attention. Um apparently our live stream is down right now online. Is that Robin? I'm sorry to ask you, but it's it's down right now. Are we still broadcasting at all or It's on cable.

It's on cable, but it's not online. Okay. So that con that only further concerns like what Scott's saying, the appearance of, you know, perception is reality. I I've sat here for 5 years and been a part of this council and I've learned from the people who've been up here for far longer than me. And and sometimes the truth is not always what people hear. They hear what they want to hear. And if you know, if that's the case, I definitely don't think it's a good idea to be voting on something that was so outspoken and so overwhelmingly attended. I understand all that we're agreeing to do is to rehear it. And what we're saying is, hey, we're not going to rehear it, by the way. It has to come forward again. They have to go through the entire process from step one, which means planning commission has to hear it again. It means we got to go through first reading, second reading. They still have to have signs. You know, there's there's no, "Hey, watch this hand while this one goes over here and does something." So, I understand that. But I if if the live stream's down, I I do think this needs to be an agenda item. You're saying possibly the next meeting. I did just during count during council comments tell you guys I'm I have a flight booked to be back here on the Tuesday of that meeting in the morning but I can't control air traffic and [clears throat] you know Congress is more powerful than I am and if they don't want to fund these controllers I can't fly the plane myself you know all the simulator practice in the world is not going to get me you know back in time if it doesn't work out that way so then do you push that for two more weeks because if it's just going to be another two two vote about hearing it then you know again I understand that, you know, and I will take full responsibility. You know, my my full-time job, which this is not, it's not any of our full-time jobs, has certainly began to require a lot more for me than it did when I first took office. And I I'm very heightenly aware of that. And you gentlemen have picked up a lot of slack along the way and allowed me to do that, which allows me to provide for my family. So, I'm very grateful. Um, I it it makes things like this when we have a large attended meeting with a lot of public comment and

if you guys don't have if all five of us are not here to share in that conversation, it's it's not fair to the other four or the other three and I fully embrace that. I do think Scott's point is extremely valid [clears throat] because of that. My concern as well is setting a precedent which something when when you do things for one person, you have to do them for the next and the next and the next. That's probably my biggest hesitancy. See, if we were forcing ourselves to vote on this tonight, that'd be my biggest hesitancy. Although I do understand without having all five of us, it does give a valid reason. But then I would ask you, is every vote that goes 22 from here on out without a fifth person? We're just going to bring it back forward for five people. So I'm again, it's a lot to think about. I'm not asking for anyone, you know, to to debate or discuss it with me. Um, those are just my thoughts on it and and hopefully I'm making those as clearly as possible for you.

If I can comment on Tracy, you made a comment that it was 22 and that uh trying to find the words to it that um that the developer had every opportunity to pull it. Um, I'm not going to speak for the developer, but um, I can tell you that he brought it to us. He brought the annexation and I wasn't know I wasn't dumb to think that he wasn't going to develop it. I knew what was going to happen. He gave it a name, Vintage Acres. We all kind of knew he was going to put homes out there. And he had a 50 vote for annexation. I mean, I think he probably had a good idea and on top of that, all the things he did to make it palatable for storm water. You know, the public aren't the expert in engineers when it comes to water management. We we don't hire the public to do it. We hire an engineer to do it. He hired an engineer to do it. I have a lot of faith in that because what we witnessed over the last uh two years with the enormous amount of rain that fell in our city was that most of our modern subdivisions did not flood homes.

Council, I I just want to make sure we're not getting too far. We got to stick to the motion. So So um the point of the motion. So that that's my point. So we have a motion and we have a second on the floor. Council has had a discussion. Do you want your you want this to go for a vote tonight or do you want So I'm going to resend my motion. I want to resend my motion. Okay. So now we're just looking for consensus to have that added to an agenda. You you resend your second. I would second to uh add it on the agenda. Well, I'm going you resend his motion. I'll second the resend. Okay. So you have the the motion and the second have been rescended. All right. So, I'd like to make a motion to move this to uh the next available agenda, I guess, or or whatever, however you want to determine it.

Okay. Where next agenda where we're going to be five people, a next full agenda. And do you want to second that move? I will second that. Okay. So, you have a motion and a second to put this on as an agenda item at the next available opportunity for that. Any any Go ahead. So, you we can get you on November 18, but you've just been advised it may not be five of you. Do you want us to put it on December 9? I mean, and I'd say the odds are that I am here. I'd say it's it's 8020, but you know, I I can't control everything and I want to be fully transparent. 8020 is good. All right. If 8020 is good, I'm I'm fine with the next put it on the next one. The next meeting.

So, just FYI, my oldest daughter is pregnant. She's due to have a baby in the next five weeks. It could land in that time frame. that this goes in water, but it's better than 12 months from now, but uh you know, sorry, Mr. I'm gonna do everything I can to be there for the birth of my first grandchild, but at the same time, I know it's important to the city as well. Okay. Uh we have a motion and second on the floor. Any public comment? Stan, go right ahead. All right, that was good. Um

uh evening, Mr. Mayor, Council Member, Stan Schmidt, 5574 Trailside Drive. If I understood what the motion was, it was just to enact to waiver the 12-month period. It wasn't to vote on the project again. That's not going to happen. It's going to put it at an agenda meeting. So, you're not doing anything sneaky, if that's what you want to say. You're just saying, "Hey, we've got the ability to wave that 12-month limitation." and then we're gonna bring it back and so the public will have a chance and you'll have all of our friends out here again and that's fine. Um but am I correct in that? Correct. This motion is just to say we can

motion that's on the floor is to put this on an agenda. That's actually the motion now. We're not we're not discussing the the previous motion that got resented. Well, this whole resend thing goes back to we're going to have lessons on parliament procedure. Thank you. All right. Thanks. Anybody else wish to speak to it? I'll take my I'm still Maybe you could tell me what Palin Acres is. It's the the other name for vintage. It's the same project. Um the It's alias.

Yes, it's Alias. Yes. And I just wanted to comment that I I understand the concerns. We're on the same boat. Like we're not we want as much discourse as we can possibly get with this. And I think I say every time I come up here that I I have an open phone. I have an open email. I'm engaged on the discussions. Uh granted I haven't received any since the last meeting but um again it's it's of record. I I say that every time and I and I mean it honestly and the same is true of this discussion that if the focus of the meeting is to just give us the opportunity to submit whatever form that thing is that's fine for the 18th and and I just at least wanted folks to understand that that if they if they want to comment and again have another discussion beyond that always available but I do appreciate you guys you know making a you making the effort to try to just uh you know because this puts you in you know I understand where this puts issue. This isn't something that you u you are taking lightly and you're trying to do the right thing by everybody. I understand that. So, I at least wanted to mention that.

Okay. Anybody else? All right. Back to council. May I ask one question? Go ahead. Just just because we we did I I did watch the meeting, you know, over online last time in two weeks. Uh and maybe this is Matt Wayne, either one. Uh, number one, did did the developer know that there was only going to be four people here or did they were they aware of that or no? Yes, they were. They were aware. Okay, so that's that's number one. It's good info to have. Secondarily, if we bring this before us on an agenda item talking about whether or not to wave the 12 months, do we have to take public comment on that or this is just council's discretion? No, you'll be taking public comment. It'll be an agenda item.

I want just want to make sure that. Okay, cool. I'm I'm good. Well, public comment would be limited to that issue, which is somewhat limited. So, you know, we're not going to have a full-blown debate about what the new project might look like or, you know, it's going to be limited to this administrative process. Okay, I'm I'm good. No more questions. I'm going to have a clerk call the role on this one. Councilman Fley, yes. Council Gford, yes. Council Green, yes. Vice Mayor Gross, yes. Yes. 50 to bring this uh particular item on. No council meeting on Tuesday, November the 18th. Thank you. Your turn. Oh, I'm sorry. And that's all I had. [laughter]

That's all I had.

What I wanted to say was actually part of the conversation in reference to making sure that when we're talking when we're voting on what's significant business to this city that we have full representation of the elected officials. That's all. I understand that we all can't be here. Things happen. You had an injury. You travel. I'm going to have a birth in the family. Things happen. I get that. Um and and I know that that the person can actually pull it. Um but that's all I just want to make sure that we're conscious conscientious of that. That's all we got outside of that. I missed the Halloween trunk or treat. I don't have a trunk cuz I have a truck. No, I actually had to work that night. Um, yeah, it's volunteer work. But, uh, I did I was here for the following day and I didn't find one piece of candy on the ground for the for for the 5K and that was awesome to be here that morning at 6:00 watching the sunrise and it didn't look like anyone was here the night before. So, great job staff.

Anything else? No. All right. Just a just a quick comment. So I I would encourage all of us to keep in mind that the the the nature of what we do and how we do requires a quorum for a reason because in all elected bodies not everybody will be there whether that's sen senate congress county council a city council whatever when we have a quorum we will do the city's business.

Um if if somebody wants to pull something off of an agenda they can do that. If a council member wants to make a motion to pull something off of we can hear those things as well. So just keep that in mind. Um, all right. I've got nothing else. So, let's move on to item E10, planning commission board reappoints. Uh, we have two people who are looking for more punishment and want to stay on the planning commission. Uh, I know one of them is here tonight. So, Maria Mills uh messaged me earlier. She was not able to come tonight. Uh, she sends her apologies for that. I know Scott Stagger is currently here. They would like to be reappointed. Apparently, the pay and benefits are outstanding. Uh, and there are there's three openings actually on the board and this term would be for another two years. Scott, did you want to come up and talk since you're here? Come on.

You want to talk us out of it? Well, the payment give us a reason to do something we've never done before. It doesn't even look like Scott. He's half the man he used to be. What are you willing to pay to be on this board? That is We'll make it one.

Um, I listen, I I appreciate having been appointed uh for the first term. Um, it's a learning experience. I'm going to tell you for anybody who's watching and obviously on cable and not on the internet, but you for the first year you have no idea what you're even there for, right? You get the training of all the things you can't do. Nobody ever sits down and says, "Oh, and by the way, this is what the job is and how to do it." So, you sit quietly for a year, unless you have Stan sitting next to you. Uh, and then you go and you go, "Okay, now I know enough to actually be able to say something and hope I'm adding something of value." And quite frankly, at this point, I think I understand the process well enough just to believe that I have something to offer. And so, I would love to have a second opportunity to be able to come in and now knowing the process and the people and the staff and so forth to hopefully be more valuable when those decisions are made. So, appreciate the opportunity.

It looks and seems very easy on that side of this bench, doesn't it? Yes. And you sit up there and you realize that every one of you is actually listening to what people have to say. And I know if you're over here and the decision that's being made is not the one you want, you go, "Oh, well, they're all bought and paid for. It must be." Well, I honestly nobody has come up and offered [laughter] that. Some more tech challenges, so maybe somebody will. Uh, no, it it's it's a wonderful opportunity to be up there and serve the citizens in the city where I live. Uh, and to hopefully, like I said, bring something insightful to the table. So, I enjoy doing it and I appreciate the opportunity. We appreciate you your willingness to to serve.

So, so what you're saying is, and is it your testimony here today that you didn't learn, you didn't know anything for the first term, so you'll be reimbursing us for the cost to train [laughter] you? I will absolutely give you back every penny that I was paid by anybody who paid me any pennies. [laughter] Thank you, Scott. All right. So, I'll entertain a motion to reappoint uh Maria Mills, Banette, and Scott Staker. So, moved. Second. [clears throat] We have a motion and a second. And all in favor signify by saying I. I. Those opposed like sign. Hearing none. Carries 5. Item 11, second reading of ordinance number 2025-02. Take it away, Mr. City attorney.

It's an ordinance of the city of Orange County, Florida, amending chapter 54, article 6, 2003, general employees retirement system, amending section 54175 defined contribution retirement plan to rely on the plan adoption agreements approved by city council describing the terms applicable to each of the plans. line for codification, repeal of conflicting ordinances, severability, and effective date. Move to approve ordinance number 2025-02. Second. We have a motion and a second on second reading for ordinance number 2025-02. Any comments from councel? Comments from the public. One more time. Back to council. Cler call the role. Yes. Councilman Ger, yes. Council Green, yes. Vice Mayor,

yes. Mayor, yes. 50. Item 12, second reading of ordinance number 2025-28. That's an ordinance of the city of Cornw County, Florida, amending the land development code chapter 9 relating to residential docks and commercial marina regulations providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances, severability, and an effective date. Move to approve ordinance number 2025-28. Second it. We have a motion and a second for second reading of ordinance number 2025-28. Any comments from just that I wasn't here for the first reading of this, but I want to applaud staff and everyone. I think this is a great decision and and excited to see it uh come forward and let as a ordinance. Yeah, some pretty good discussion on it actually. All right. Any other comments?

The only other comment I had was and and Councilman Sean here brought it up is that this picture that's on this is doesn't look like Florida. It looks like Northern Michigan and a Northern Michigan boat. But uh [laughter] come on guys. Other than that, uh no, I'm good. Thanks. Any public comment on this item? Back to council one more time. See none. Clerk called the role. Council. Yes. Council Gford. Yes. Councilman Green. Yes. Vice Mayor G. Yes. Mayor. Yes. 50. [laughter] Good. Levity is a good thing. Goodbye.

Uh regular agenda items. Item 13, city attorney evaluation. I guess I'll lead this discussion. Is that is that is that me to lead this discussion? Probably. So, right. that would you sign up for when you become the mayor. All right. So, uh has everybody had an opportunity to meet with or talk to the city attorney? Yes.

I will just I will just say this for uh for those that are new to this position and uh for those that kind of watch this. This is a this is always a very interesting thing for for us because the reality of it is is that in my mind at least the city attorney and the city manager are under evaluation 26 times a year and that's every time we meet because if they're not doing the job that they're expected to be doing then three votes will make that change at any given moment. So in my mind I see it as a constant ongoing evaluation that never really ends. So this is kind of a unique thing. The other the other side of it is is that because we are a elected body in a city that has a strong city city manager form of government, we do not work for the city of Port Orange in day-to-day operations. So, we're not here at city hall seeing the day-to-day operations, the day-to-day management, supervision, direction, and things like that that the city attorney and the city manager um uh are charged with doing every day. So it's it's a very different kind of evaluation process as opposed to the way I used to do a lot of evaluations in my previous career and others do that have supervisory supervisory or managerial type of role. So it's pretty unique but the evaluation occurs in public because we're here uh 26 times a year sometimes a few more extras right um so anyhow uh Reed I'll start with you if you want to make any comments on our uh city attorney. Yeah, you know, um I' I've been had the pleasure of working with Matt now for five years and and this year is the first time in his written exam. I gave him all fives. Um I've always thought there was a little here or a little there and and I have, you know, I've had less notes each year as he's continuing to grow in his role. Um Matt, it's so weird to talk about you in third person as if you're not sitting over there. Um but no, I and and so I'll talk more

directly to you. I do I think you've done a really good job uh you know from from forfeitures uh to just you know contracts specifically come to mind. Um I appreciate your limited uh need to to speak up at our council meetings but when we do get into a gray area you do save us from ourselves and I appreciate that as well as all the education behind the scenes before meetings after meetings. Uh I'm also aware of of conversations you've had with other boards that are that serve underneath of us, you know, um from planning commission, parks, things like that. Um and so I I have a great appreciation for what you do for our city and all of the efforts that you put in. And I really I think you have evolved and and continue to get stronger in your role. And you know, I think you've become you already an asset from day one, but man, you really, in my opinion, I I wouldn't replace you with anyone else um that I'm aware of. So, I'm very very thankful to have you for our residents and and for our governing body. Three years of keeping me out of trouble. I know that's a challenge in itself.

So, uh Matt, I appreciate uh all the conversations we have one on-one. um city and personal. Um it it helps to have somebody that is deep within the organization that has come through from the beginning of a junior attorney inside that department to be running that department. I think one of the things as we u move forward um when we start talking about compensations, I'll I'll talk about another suggestible [clears throat] ideal that we'll bring up. But um he runs a department that has given back money into the general budget every year that I've set up here. Now, I don't know about y'all, but he's an attorney and he's given money back from his department.

Different kind. That's it's kind of an unusual thing. Um so that means he's running a tight ship. I I appreciate that. Um, and then having the phone call conversations before meetings, giving us guidance to make sure that we're on the right track. That's invaluable. So, thank you. [snorts] Sure.

So, um, this is my first year on council and, uh, I thank Matt all the time because he's given me a lot of guidance. He's he knows uh when I take the conversation uh like tonight a little too far and I appreciate that. So you definitely earn it. So, you know, looking at his professional skills, there's some things on uh the evaluation that obviously I'm not aware of, like his legal competency and problem solving because I don't deal with him on a day-to-day basis, but when it came to communicating to me, he's a five. That's outstanding. It doesn't get any better on this evaluation. the relationship that he has with me and and it looks like the council has been a five. Um his communication's a five. Um his relations with uh inner government solid five. So u it's been a year. You have three more to really disappoint me. I don't think it's going to happen. But keep up the good work. Yeah. You don't bring a lot to this council at our meetings. I've actually had someone comment go, "Your city attorney never has anything to say. You have a lot to say in our monthly reports and you're very clear and that's what I love about your communication skills." So, uh, keep up the good work and we're thankful. You know, one of the things that this county has always thrived to do is bring people

uh raise raise kids, have them go off and get an education and bring their talent back to Valuchia County. They've been talking about that for 30 years. from an education and you hope that that's what we do is that someone's from here. He lived here. He went and got his education. He brought his talent back. And we're lucky enough to to have have someone done done that since uh 2011. You've been on this staff, right? And uh been leading us since 2019. So, great work. So, I got and I and I think it's a I think it's a good thing when your city attorney is not having to talk a lot at meetings. [laughter] It's a good thing.

Go ahead, Lance. I'm exactly the opposite on this whole deal and I'm sure this is going to be um Matt and I met emotion coming up.

Matt and I met uh and again, you know, I've dealt with attorneys for a long long time in my career and and uh what I see in Matt is um is is all just positive, keeping us on the right track. Um we've talked about his couple of downfalls and a couple things that he's got to work on uh internally and externally and you know football teams, but other than that um couldn't be happier with where we are and um and again like I said we we we had our private talks and uh I'll leave with that. Uh but I do I appreciate you, man. You're all right. And I app I appreciate uh Sean's comments about um you know having a literally a homegrown city attorney. I think that's fairly unusual. Um, so it's it is a it is a very nice thing to see somebody who grew up in the community, went off and got the education, got all the requirements, developed under another city attorney, got all the experience and and and I think that that brings a lot. Matt brings a lot because of that as well. And so, you know, when we're talking about things and we have ideas and we want to make decisions, you know, he he not only has the the knowledge obviously for the job, but he also has that personal feel and insight of where we're trying to go, and he can help uh not only us, but the the rest of the city staff go down the path that the elected body wants to go. And so, uh, Matt Matt, it's it's it's it's an honor to have you continue to serve us as the city attorney. And it sounds like at least your job is safe for tonight. So, um, at this point we can talk about this is an opportunity. I know Councilman Grubs mentioned it. This is an opportunity if the council so deems to consider any kind of wage adjustments for the city attorney.

Can we real quick also just as before we start that conversation cuz I know also compliments to Matt's staff that works underneath of him. That's part of your job is managing that. But um you know they've been involved in in several things. Obviously uh you know union discussions and things. We get to spend a little one-on-one time with them. But uh you know your hiring and your management of that department and their work is not going unnoticed. And so you the praise we're heaping on you is also a testament to the work that they do uh for you and alongside you. So

great point. Thank you for bringing that up. All right. Would anybody would like to uh I just closed down my computer. So, anybody like to uh start a discussion on any compensation adjustments?

I think one of the things um came to mind last time and we kind of tabled it and I think it needs to be brought up. We have two individuals that we're talking about tonight and compensation is one thing and and I think it needs to be adjusted. Don't know what that number needs to be yet, but one of the things that gets left out these two individuals is a pension plan. You know, we have uh contribution plans and 401ks and things of that nature, but all the employees of the city have that. And my wife works for the state. We got a 401k and a pension plan. When you have top people and it takes us forever to homegrown them, get them to where they need to be and we trust them and they do a great job. The last thing I want them to do is to be looking elsewhere. Pension plans work to try to help cultivate and keep good people. So I think there's a combination here where we look at uh salary increase but also to add a pension plan to that system. Just food for thought for you guys.

So we don't have a pension plan. Our general employee pension is closed and to to new [clears throat] members. So um but but understand understanding that and and are you suggesting adding them to FRS? I I just trying to understand what you're suggesting. I'm sorry. It is. I didn't even not apologize. Okay. I don't even know if that's a possibility. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know that that's a possibility. Maybe for future discussions to be able to be considered because I'm sure there's we'll probably have to get guidance from a from a legal person like a city attorney [laughter] or something

or there could even and and I don't even know if our city attorney is interested in something like that, but I I you you've caught me off guard with something. I have no clue what I'm talking about with regard to that for sure. So, uh uh but let's talk about uh wage adjustments. At least we could start there. Is is there any appetite for any kind of a wage adjustment? I know uh the city attorney did provide some uh through assistance from human um human resources on um some comparative information. It is kind of unique. I will say for those that are watching or interested in this particular discussion tonight, not all municipalities have in-house city attorneys. Mhm.

A lot of cities spend a ton of money for outside uh legal assistance, which is great when you don't need a lot of legal assistance and then all of a sudden you do and now you're at that um hourly rate animal and which is there's no cap on it. So, um anyhow, so that's kind of what we're looking at currently. There's only let's see new Simona Orman and Daytona and us uh aside from the county. Uh it looks like everybody else is pretty much using outside uh legal services or combinations of the two. Um what are your thoughts guys?

If I'm sorry if you don't mind. Uh so so just kind of making public a little bit of what Matt shared with us salary wise. You know Matt's currently at 180. Uh Daytona B Daytona Beaches city attorney and this is all public data that was given to us. Uh is at 270. New Simrna uh 220 does have 2 years more experience than Matt. Uh Orman Beach has an attorney at 195 who's been there for 20 years. Um but does have a significantly stronger retirement plan than Matt from what I was able to to read up on that. What concerns me I I don't like seeing a Valia County deputy attorney or Daytona Beach deputy attorney making more than my city manager. Um and in my head like I'd like to get him a there. I'm sorry I said city manager. We're going to get to you in a minute, Wayne. Don't worry. Um, but in my head, I I've got an appetite for, [clears throat] you know, going up to around 200,000 flat. That's that's the number I'd like to discuss. Um, I want him to make, you know, he's a home he's a home player. He's he's been here. He's put in a lot of time. Uh, I want him making more than deputy attorneys are making. and um and I and I want to give him incentive to want to stay and I imagine those deputies are also going to be seeing similar raises as well. So he's still probably going to even at 200's going to come in a touch beneath them but should be really competitive. So that that's the number I'd like to entertain.

Is that a motion you're making? I I I mean I'll make it I would allow for discussion. We can have Yeah, we can have some more discussion. Tracy, you discussion particular on that? Go ahead and pass for now. Any discussion on this end? I want to know if if I could guess a little help in Okay, so it says 180 and then the defined contribution 15% plus 3%. What exactly does that mean? So the absolutely it's your it's your money we're talking about.

Yeah. Well, so there's there's kind of two ways that retirements work. And for 2011 was kind of the time when just to council or Mayor Stilner's point about the pension kind of phasing out for general employees. So I was I was coming in as those were shutting down. So [clears throat] for non-pensioners, it's a defined contribution plan. So in essence, our retirement for all those in non uh non-pension plans is a a city contribution while we're employed for the city. So the city will put in uh x% of of your salary into a 401. For us, it's 401k. For private, it's 401k and it and it accumulates in a 401k plan. And then that's your retirement. You don't get any in a pension plan, you get a defined benefit. So when you retire, they'll pay you a percentage of what your average final compensation was for

right the rest of your life. You don't have that with actually you 401 is going to be based on 401 you're able to accumulate during your your tenure as as an employee and and Wayne is in the same situation. Okay. So you're getting 15% and then you're and then they're matching you three more. So it's 18 total. Every employee here at the city has an opportunity to participate in the 457 match plan where you pay 6% to get 3% from the city. Correct. So I am I am engaged in that. So then you're you're you're again I I look at the total package. Your total package in reality is is 180 plus 15%. Sure. Correct. Sure. Okay. And and it's going to it's going it went this month to 17.5. Correct. Correct.

And it's Yeah. And there's and there's a final step to 20. Wait. We made it already council. Okay. All right. Very good. So we have one. When does that step come? Next year. Next year. Next year. Okay. And then that's that was the final. That's what was agreed to u last session. Okay. All right. I'm good. I I like the number that Reed has come up with. Okay. Well, I want to know though, but again, I want to be clear, Reed, when you say you you you want to go to a certain number. Is that the total number or is that base number plus the 15? Well, 17 and a half. Cuz currently, right now, the total package is 207. Correct. Exactly. I have the same maths. I'm glad to see both our calculators are doing the same thing.

Okay. But so you're not saying 180 plus 50. And you're I'm saying sal I'm looking at the salaries that are there of those deputies at at 190. you know, they're going to go up significantly. So, I'm thinking 200 and then he'll get 17 and a half as his retirement. It probably puts his comp total compensation package. The match is is every employee has that, right? So, looking specifically for him and actually that's pretty easy math. What? 200,000 times 1.175 and you get an ad for Well, it's really 20.5 when you do the match. 3%

but every but every employee has that throughout the entire like we even have that much we don't have that but that puts his total compensation package at 235 all in that's retirement and salary that's but I'm I'm at $200,000 salary which then the 17 would take care of the additional retirement. I I I'll just comment that I I do think that years of time in the position are very relative when we make these discussions and we look at comparisons. You're there are attorneys around the area that work in municipal government that have been in the seat for much much longer. So you would expect over time they've acquired those things. So, um I also have always kind of thought that the population has a factor, you know, where you have an attorney, uh who represents a city with 65,000 people versus an attorney that represents a city that has 25,000 or 250,000. I think there's some relative uh stuff that in in in that regard as well. Um, as far as like the deputy county attorneys, I mean, Valuchia Countyy's got 600,000 people. So, having a flight of three attorneys is makes a lot of sense for, you know, an organization that size. So, I don't know how much of that we can really make that comparison, but it's worth making that notation that you did. I I kind of had, you know, knowing what we have done for the general employees this year, uh, I was kind of thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of a 5% salary increase. Uh, so you're considerably higher than than what I kind of had in mind, which is okay. That's why we're a voting body. But, um, so those were those were my thoughts. I think a wage adjustment is definitely uh the right thing to do tonight. Um, I appreciate Matt clarifying the the pension changes or the uh retirement changes, contribution changes were made by the previous council and were designed to phase those in. So, this is in the second year of of a three-year phase for that that'll go

to 20% which is pretty pretty competitive and [clears throat] that's a that's a really nice benefit in and of itself. So, all right. Did you want to form yours into a into a motion? And one more question. So, so you're saying uh so in in 2026 the defined contribution goes to 20%. Correct. Correct. No matter what the salary is ba I mean correct it's a percent. Yeah. It's based on percent. So this year it's going to 17 and 12. Next year it's going to the next one, right? Correct. Okay. That and that put that total compensation at 240 next year if there were no salary adjustments. Correct.

No, but if if there's not an appetite for a number that high, you know, I'm not going to I'm not not going to force anybody on that. Um it sounds like Sean and I are in similar places, but I want to Can I talk about it?

Sure. Sure. Um, so you brought up a good point about population size because we're going to talk about this with Wayne's um, deal here. Um, I was 200 obviously was a number. I wasn't looking at that originally, but when you said it, I said, "Hey, you know what? Uh, based on populationwise and probably the fact that we're we're a little bigger than Orman by population of about 20 something thousand." And right now he's getting our attorney's 180. They're at 194. He's probably getting a raise. So I was thinking if that was uh something that I didn't know if that was already in place in Orman. I was thinking more in lines of 195 and then he's going to get the 17 and a half and then next year he's going to get the 20 and then we can kind of look at it next year. He's got the 20 and then we can kind of get there. work our way like Scott said, length of time. You know, six years has been a great six years and we want you another six years. So, we gotta be competitive.

And if I may, my 200,000 was kind of is really it sounds really high when I say it out loud. Uh and still I remember and and Scott could probably back me up on this. uh with our other 450 80 employees we had where we would give some raises and other states would give raises and so we're like hey we were in the bottom four in whatever it may be whichever union we're negotiating with we're like we're going to go to like top five and then all the new data we get posted and everyone come out and we were back down in ninth or 10th and I was so I'm trying to avoid that a little bit here because I can imagine a lot of other uh jurisdictions are going to do similar similar things here, you know.

Well, most of them probably already have because normally this happens earlier in the year and it goes into effect when the when the annual budget goes into November. It doesn't feel like it, but you're right. Yeah. So, so I I don't know if that's the case with some of these or not, but that that may be. Yeah. But in any regard, [clears throat] is this an annual thing? Yes. Every single year every single year. Yeah. That's big. [laughter] [screaming] They look forward to it so much. Get it over with. Je, did you make a motion at 200? I haven't. I I could tell there's not three votes for it. So, I I'll make a motion for 195 to to raise my salary to 195,000. Is that a motion?

That is a proper motion. And I'll second that. We have a motion and a second to increase the city attorney's annual salary to $195,000. Any further discussion from members of council for that particular motion? It's increasing it from 180 to 195,000 on just the salary alone. No comments. Anybody in the public, this is the fun part. The public I encourage all of the staff members to come up and talk. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, anybody in the public wish to speak on this particular item? Back to council. Any other comments? Matt, I'll give you an opportunity of uniqueness to come in on your behalf.

I I would thank my staff again. We got, you know, five people other than me in that office serving 500 and they make me look really good sometimes, but I mean, they're keeping me straight a lot of those times and all those comments, you know, it really does they they deserve the thanks to [clears throat] support me. Good effective date at the very next day. You hire those people, right? And and read on your motion. Do you have an effective date as to when this would go in? Should it pass? uh the very next pay period, I guess, is Okay. All right. We have a motion and a second on the floor to increase the city attorney's annual salary from 180 180,000 to 195,000. Burke, can you call the role, please? Council, yes. Councilman Ger, yes. Councilman Green, no. Vice Mayors,

yes. Mayor, yes. 41. Congratulations. Sorry, bud. Oh, did you say in that motion he was supposed to buy his staff lunch for a week? I I uh I believe that's against the law. All right. I'll ask the city attorney now that he's making more money than he was. Item 14, city manager evaluation says, "That was so much fun. Let's do it again." How about that? All right. So, so kind of You don't get to go home.

Not kind of the same thing, the exact same thing. Uh the city manager is the other position uh in which the council has uh the authority and the oversight to to to evaluate non-stop at all times and serve at our pleasure. Um and and I I'll go first on this one. you know, when when it the last time we filled this particular position, the city was in a different period of time and we were really looking for somebody that had the experience and the skill set that our city manager currently has. And we were very fortunate to to bring him back to to this team. And there were there were even some I will just Wayne doesn't mind me sharing. There were even some who said, "Man, this is not this is not the right guy." And I sat on that process in those interviews. And when I tell you during the interview process, he crushed the competition, it was not even close. And uh so even though a lot of us had already had experience of working with Wayne and knowing his skill set, the the other aspects of what he would know and bring to the table in municipal government really came to light pretty quickly. And so we brought him into a new role. and and uh I I think it was probably one of the best decisions that that particular council made. Um I you know Wayne and I met and talked and and a couple of things that I shared with Wayne in terms of what do I really look for in a city manager and a lot of this comes out of my experience because I think now I've had four different city managers since I've been on the elective board. Um, but as a municipal body, you there are times where we think we know where the city's going. We know where we're moving. We know what's important right now, right? We know what the the top things are we want to accomplish and we want to do during our terms as elected officials. And boom,

something happens. Things start changing

and and priorities change. And uh I would say that the experience that I have learned from that is having a city manager who can change direction who can recognize council now has new priorities, different priorities and sometimes those priorities need to happen urgently and change and sometimes maybe there is time to kind of learn a little bit and and then you know proceed [clears throat] and uh that that is probably one of the biggest strengths uh that I have noticed with our city manager is that He doesn't have a horse in the race. He is here to take us on the path and the direction that we give him. And he understands that those paths and directions do change. And um he has been very good at at getting on board with that and and switching gears and going in those directions. And so, and at the same time, uh, much like our city attorney, his demeanor with us, or at least with me, I don't know how he treats you guys, but with me, it's it's it's really good. It's it's very business. It's there's no emotion. It's very these are the facts, these are what we can do, this is what we can't do. Educating me wise, the wise, right? Because we ask a lot of wise and why nots behind the scene that most people don't really get to see. Um, and so he does a very good job of that. and he brings a ton of knowledge um into the city manager role. Um you know, again, we don't see how he handles his staff day in and day out. We don't see that aspect of of of the operational portion of managing, you know, a municipality like the city of Port Orange. But we see the results and um you know when you look at the things that have happened just in the last year since his last evaluation and and the and and again and Wayne is the first one to give credit to his staff. I I will say that he I'm not even going to ask him to say it. He does

he does it very very regularly. He is very proud of his staff by the way. You guys should all know that um he is extremely proud of his staff. he has done a good job putting a talented staff together um so that that uh we can continue to move this city forward no matter what tomorrow brings. Um and and we're in a good position with that because of Wayne's leadership and his experience that he brings to the table. Um so I you know I I think he is certainly a benefit to our our city. He is um you know he may not have the most experience as a city manager in Valuchia County specifically with that title, but he has a lot of municipal government experience and knowledge that I think is extremely unique and and he continues to learn all the time and I think he really enjoys and likes that aspect of his job as well. So I'll start on this end. Lance Lance. Um, yeah, Wayne and I, we met and and and had some some good discussion, some good dialogue, and and again, I um, you know, like I like I expressed to Wayne, you know, every good leader has to build his own team, and you're only as good as your team. And, and I feel as though Wayne is really putting together the pieces that it's going to take for him to do his job and lead us into the future. Um, and again, you know, my expression to him was is, you know, we're not worried about the cracked sidewalks here today. We let Robin worry about that. And we're going to worry about where we are 5, 10, and 25 years from now, the same as what our previous leaders had to do. And and and I think Wayne has that vision. And um I don't get me wrong, I did ask Wayne straight up, do you ever ever raise your voice? And he answered no. I was a little concerned about that, but we're going to work through that. But um we we we had a good meeting. Um I talked about the couple things that I you know that I would like us to to focus on a little a little better as we move forward. And uh but I absolutely had no complaints and

and I think um and I express Wayne, you know, I appreciate the time that he gives me as a new council member. I mean, he meets with me anytime I need to be met with. We have our Monday meetings before every every council meeting. and um and these meetings are uh that we have together are what's keeping me uh you know in the in the know of exactly where we are and what we're doing and how we do it and the ins and the outs and I do appreciate that. Um but then like I told Wayne, I said I just want you to get a little meaner, but we'll we'll we'll see what happens next year. Sean, well you didn't fill the room tonight with your evaluation.

You're disappointed right now. [laughter] 247. So, um you know, one of the things that uh our responsibilities are are to give give our city manager and our staff the tools they need to be successful.

And it's his department, it's his department heads, it's it's the people that he's put in place over the last four years that make this city one of the best cities in Valia County. And you know, I've I've been very vocal about uh some things in reference to giving you the tools when it came to the budget. Do are you going to are you going to be able to do your job with the tools that we're providing you? Now, today we're going to be talking about are we going to be able to give you the tool to remain a fantastic city manager and provide for your family? Because we're talking about your livelihood and your salary today. And um I look at the comparisons um of our surrounding cities and the responsibilities that those city managers have. I've known a few in the in over the years of living here. um some that had live that worked at the same city for a very long time or Ken Parker was here for a very very long time and uh the South Daytona manager Joe Yarro was there for a very very long time and we had you here as our economic development director. I remember that. That's when I first met you and you were in on the staff and I remember you had one arm tied behind your back because there were things you wanted to do but you couldn't because you weren't in charge. you're working for somebody. And uh but now that we've had you for four years, all I see is a full police force, a fantastic fire department, one heck of a parks and recreation department where we're going to have more kids than we have coaches. I mean, I I I get the opportunity to coach our youth here and we need coaches. It's because people the quality of life that they have in Port Orange is because of the team that you have surrounded yourself with over the last

four years that have turned things around and and I have lived in another city in Valuchia County and I have coached in another city in Valuchia County and and we we were proud of the sports we had and we had a lot of poor orange kids playing there. Not no more. I mean, we're providing that aspect of it. Parks and recreation, not just for young kids, even for adults at the adult community center. We have a sellout for this Friday's bingo event. Not the first one, but both of them. The the quality of of opportunities that your staff are providing, parks and wreck, fantastic. um your engineering team for what we've been able to do over thanks to the council that was up here prior to me and Lance. um the the the charge they gave you to go figure out what we can do to help our citizens in flooding and then to witness all that what you did with Juno and yourself and going to Tallahassee Scott and watching you work your magic to get us $4.5 million and then now an additional 20 something million and hopefully another 20 something million that is just doesn't happen by accident. It happens by leadership and you're doing a fantastic job. And then I look at and I don't mean to go long on this, but this is very very important to me. Your counterparts throughout this community, you know, throughout Valuchia County and the number of citizens. So we have 65,000 67,000 in Port Orange. Daytona's got 85,000. Deltona's got 100,000. They're all commercial. They don't have a police department. New Smyrna Beach 33,000. How Hill 13,000. So I look at the salaries of those managers because it

was provided to us. Public record I'm assuming. Um and compensation. We're lucky we've got him still here because his compensation last year 195, Deltona is 215. Newsome is 233 with 33,000 residents. Holly Hills is 181. So he's got them beat there. There's 13,000 residents. He's got 500 employees, a full-time fire department, a full-time police department, one heck of a great parks and recreation department. [snorts] And he brought his talent back to Valuchia County. not born and raised here, but worked here, left, got more experience, brought talent back, probably became a better leader being away. And I get to sit down with him before these meetings, and I try to get him to laugh, and he's just too darn professional. Thank God Robin's in there. [laughter] He's just on just on it. And uh he maybe cracks up with you guys, but man, he's so serious with me. It's just I can't get him to to I can't break him. At any rate, I'm only here for a year, so maybe over the next 3 years, I'll break you. You could smile a little in our meetings, but [laughter] um we need to work and give him the tools he needs. And

[snorts] uh so that's all I've got to say. Uh I'm not ready to make a motion uh on salary because I want Lance to Oh, did you already speak? Jeez, I I spoke so long I forgot he already spoke. Scott, your turn. No, I'm [laughter] sorry. I think y'all know how I feel. So, so you're it's your position that we keep him hired here. We're going to keep him hired. It's our position that we need to take care. So, by the way, I I will just let you know that regardless of what we pay him, he's not allowed to leave because his wife and family won't allow him to leave the city anymore. So, that's the truth behind the story. So, one our whole card.

Yeah. One one one attribute that that I I I didn't speak on and and it came to mind while Sean was talking about was how strategic Wayne really is. You know, um I I don't believe in kicking other cities or or talking trash about other cities or whatever you want to call that, but but but it is it is relative sometimes for us to look and see like how how are our how's our staff doing or our city manager or our city attorney or or whatever comparatively to other cities in Valuchia County. And there are some great fabulous city managers and leaders and and department heads all over Valuchia County. There really are some talented people and I've gotten to know a lot of them. I respect them tremendously. But just just as a quick example of when I say how much of a strategic leader Wayne Clark really is, you know, if you just look at the storm water aspect of the last few years, every city in Valuchia County is dealing with the same concerns. None of none of nobody escaped any of those concerns and every city is trying to do exactly what Port Orange is trying to do. The reality of it is we are way ahead.

Mhm.

And I don't say that to be braggadocious. I say that as a credit to a city manager and his staff to put us in that position. There are cities and organizations still waiting for their storm water master plans to be completed before they can even start really going after a lot of the funding and getting projects ready to go. There are there are cities who have identified they definitely know they have a problem but they don't actually have viable solutions that can be modeled and and we are there. We've been there and so you know there may be a city out there that's ahead of us. I don't know. I haven't seen them, but but perhaps. But my point to that is is that I know we are way out ahead of the majority and and and we owe that to to a city manager who understood what council's direction was, created a strategy really fast with a talented staff and said, "Okay, then we got to start doing this, this, this, and this right now. Right now." And and and and encouraged us and and and and he was right 100%. And and we're on that good path. So, I just wanted to make that basic Sean's comment. Great.

All right, Reed. No, I'm just kidding.

Yeah, I sit here and I and I listen to uh Councilman Green and Gart and I chuckle down inside. I remember my first year with Wayne. I I was the young guy that came on to the dis 4 months in after Ian was appointed. There was no rule book. It was here you go, good luck. and having Wayne look at me and go, "Okay, this is this is flood mitigation. This is flood." Flood. You got any other words to say? Flood. [laughter] And it was dropped. And if we had talked way before that, it would might have been a different question coming into this, right? It was understanding what I had bit off, but having somebody to be able to come back to and have those conversations,

Lance, I've seen him back. Have you? Oh, I have. Oh, man. I I've pushed some buttons. I've had some strong conversations with him.

We've had tailgate talks out in the parking lot before just to make sure he knew that this is just me. It's okay. But he always comes back just same demeanor. Fires up, comes down. And it's awesome. Don't take this the wrong way, Wayne. That was my dad. I'm used to that. But it's it's in that time frame of the last three years watching him knowing that he was here a year before me and knowing that the departments have all changed under new management, new leaderships. That's all driven by the city manager, your team that you've put together. And that's reality to this is everything that keeps coming back to the city is because of one person's leadership to allow them to go out to find resources to go out think outside the box to allow to bring that information back to him to steer the ship per se.

How many millions of dollars this year alone? A lot.

25 $25 million. Not a drop in the bucket, right? $25 million of that. And I would have thought if somebody had came in and told me $10 million we'd have been awarded, I'd have been going and doing the happy dance. But 25 million and more [clears throat] to come. So for me, understanding what you have done is is just incredible. Before I was on the DIS, you guys had the forethought of putting a storm water master plan together. I think this is something that really needs to be brought up to most people. You brought it together and was put out there for $550,000 to go get this thing. When I saw that bill, I was like, it's how much? and you go, "Yeah, that's that's the going rate." And I was like, "Good lord, that seems like an awful lot of money." I want everybody to know that he had forethought to do that because now the master plan has to be done. Edgewater master plan 23,000 people in Edgewater, we got 67,000 people. A million dollar for their master plan. [clears throat]

That's crazy. And that's all because these storm water mitigation people, they know that you have to have it. Prices went up and they're years away still. Yeah. Two years away. Mhm. So for taking your team, guiding your team and making this happen is just incredible. $25 million. If if we were grant writers and we got $25 million to us, think about what that compensation would have been for a grant writer finding 25 million. It's unbelievably Maybe you should be a grant writer. Don't do that. Really?

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know if he was either.

Yeah, he's done. [laughter] Um, [clears throat] you know, Wayne, everyone's already heaped a lot of praise on you and, um, rightfully so. Um, me and Scott were two the only two up here that actually were involved in hiring you and, uh, I think it was probably one of the best decisions that I've made on council in my entire time here. um it was down two other people and and uh I believe the other the other candidate ended up getting arrested or walked out on his city council or something. And so um you know and you've you've been nothing but a a huge success as far as I'm concerned. Um from the money that's come in uh from Tallahassee and other programs to having just you know I I would equate it to see like Lance was saying about building a team. Uh, you do a really good job of being a general manager, which which is what your job is, is put in the right find the right players to put in the right places and and throughout four or five years here, I've seen you put people in places and and you think you got the free agent and realize you got to go out and draft somebody else and and you're not afraid to do that. Your version of getting mad is hilarious to me because it's not it's it's more just your voice gets this much louder. But I can tell when you're mad and and you're not afraid to do that. And I think overall I think you're a great leader uh in that you lead by example. I'll never forget one of the conversations we had early on about, you know, getting you fired somebody because they left at like 450. You said we close at 5:00. I'm here till 5:00. You're going to be here till 5:00. And little things like that. And and and while that's an old school mentality that a lot of people in my generation might not appreciate if they had to live under those rules, um as someone who's responsible for tax day taxpayer dollars and and for 60ome thousand residents, I [clears throat] do appreciate it because I know it means a lot to them. And so um

I I can't say enough good things about your time here. Uh the I no one reaches out to me and complains about you for anything. Um, even the times that we have faced criticism up here that you've faced criticism, it's been for things that are completely out of your control or that you had no hand in uh how they first arrived to the city and are now trying to retrofit and and fix those things. So, um, you know, I I I can't say, like I said, I just can't say enough good things, especially when I look at the achievement list over the last several years. Um, it's it's massive and it continues to grow longer. And I think that's a testament to you and specifically your ability to lead and hire and all these staff members who work behind you. Um you are a sum of all their hard work. Um and you're that mouthpiece and so um you know it's your your relationship with us is is valuable. I know you and I talk all the time whether I'm in town or not. and uh you you know you keep me fully plugged in and I'm extremely grateful to have you here and I don't want you even looking at uh Indeed or any of these other websites trying to find out where there might be a job opening and I plan to talk salary about that to make sure you don't

I feel like there's going to be some collusion between the city manager the city attorney there'll be on the next agenda [laughter] there's going to be a new ordinance that during during a review you can only talk for 90 seconds each because I know for both of them this is a pretty painful thing because neither one of these these guys are are their their egos are well in check and and I know it's uncomfortable for them to sit up here and and be bragged upon but but it's welld deserved. So all right gentlemen let's uh let's let's talk compensation. Uh I know [snorts] you guys have all been provided the data uh in terms of of salary and comparisons around Valuchia County. Um, you know, I I I I'll just break the ice and and tell you that I I I I think anything less than about $215,000, um, in terms of where he should be on his salary, uh, I I I got to say I got to think that that's about the starting position, knowing what we've got, seeing the talent we have, seeing the competitiveness around the the the the county area. Yeah, there are some folks that have sat in that city manager role for much much longer and I give credit to that and I think their salaries and benefits reflect that, but I kind of feeling like that's about where we need to probably start, but I'll leave that to you gentlemen cuz somebody will have to put a motion on the table.

I don't mind jumping in here. You know, I I I took that spreadsheet and and did some deep math on it. Uh some things that bothered me as I was looking at it specifically is um New Simra Beach has half the population and does not have full service. Wayne correct me. I mean we have fire, we have police, we have obviously g employees. We they don't have utilities that that city manager has to deal with. And I'm looking at those city managers incumbent salary 233 and then the retirement being about 35 whereas Wayne's at 39. Um, when you divide out total compensation by residents, he's actually the second lowest, which is why I don't think that's the best number to completely make these decisions off of. You can't compare Pon Inlet's, you know, 3,400 people to our 67,000 or can you compare the number of employees Wayne has to deal with. [gasps] But for me looking at that, um, my I would like to to at least discuss the possibility of going to 230, which if you put that number out there, it's a little less than the salary of the new SimRa, who again does not have utilities. And Wayne does have a little more retirement in there uh than the that make that put him about even with new Samura. I do also want to remind or or not remind, I just want to point out something to everyone up here. When Wayne first took this job, he did not have any years of experience as an actual city manager. He brought tons of experience as a develop as a um community development director. Um he has shown amazing leadership in his time here and he's helped us navigate a lot of issues that we've had arise pretty well I think and he came in with that when he took that position he

came in and took that salary knowing good and well it was it was probably a year or two behind because of how the process had played out that we had our city manager Joe Hansen leave and go the way it all went down. He probably ended a year or two behind and I'm not sure that we've caught up to that when you look at this market. So again, my my number is 230 right now. I'm I'm open to hearing what everyone else has to say. Tracy, what are you thinking? You got a number in mind? I had 220 right now. You got a number in mind, Sean? Um I was closer to the 220 number. Uh and um by the way, the the the retirement stuff that we did was the same that we did for Matt, right? Yeah. that discussion the same.

Uh, one of the things that um, you know, me and Wayne met today and he brought up some really good points and you know, he we back to some of the good things that have happened. I mean, I I remember uh Steve came up here and brought the fact that they're doing some things over there. Um they're being really proactive as staff members saving the city money where we've allowed which has allowed us to stay keep our millage rate where it's at and keep the taxes uh where you know obviously we had a little increase but we were able to keep our mill rate where it was last year because a lot of things we had a zero comments on our audit without without a financial guy here. Uh

we have one

we have one now. Thank God. Um because he hired someone um the debris removal after Milton, there wasn't anyone available to do that, but he figured out a way to get it done. Um savings in our water system, the new rollover in our technology that's saves us big time from cyber attacks and so forth. the EMS division that came online that's generated revenue but and more importantly provided uh better care for our residents all these things in in the just the last couple years. So um I have no problem and and I and I I've analyzed the the salaries not to take and I'm glad you mentioned this [clears throat] and it's a public hearing and people are going to hear this. I don't want to take anything away from what the city managers and other cities are doing that I hope that no one takes it that way. What I'm trying to do is um you know you compare salaries throughout the state based on population and responsibilities. This city has all the responsibilities and a collective bargaining agreement on top of that with the 500 plus employees. So, there's a lot of things that work into this and to see that other cities, one that has don't even have their utilities. They have a utilities division.

Um, I just want us to be competitive and at 230 it does make him competitive there and I I like that. I really like that number and uh I want him to retire from here. Not anytime soon. After 12 years would be good. Um, but uh I want to I don't want to be up here having to find another city manager because he was offered something better somewhere else, like another municipality 10 miles south of us. Um, so I'm I'm good with that number at 230. Lance, [clears throat and cough]

well, I don't want to be the naysayer here, but we're doing this every year. So, what was last year's number? I'm just curious. How much did we increase his pay was last year? Off the top of my head, I want to say it was 185 or Yeah. 185 to So you went from 185 to 195. But here you guys want to jump $35,000 in one year and we're going to do it again next year. So I'm just again I I I definitely think this for me you don't have to give him a raise at all next year.

And I get it. Not not trying to like debate. For me just you know explaining my position a little bit more. I do feel like Wayne came in lower than he should have started to begin with. And so to me, this is a one-time catchup, which we've had to do in in other departments and with other things. I don't anticipate us seeing these kind of raises coming forward for everyone every year. I think we we nibbled away at it last year. Matt and and Wayne lagged the market pretty severely. U I think we took a bite. I think we do need to take one more big bite and then we'll be looking at raises consistent with the rest of the organization. So, I want to make sure I'm not saying this is a forever thing. I just feel like we have two outstanding people that we're all grading with A's. I don't want them looking at job applications. That's That's my

But I also I'm not ready to die on the hill at 2:30. I'll support 220 in a heartbeat. I'd like to reclaim my time. Sorry. Um again, so uh just to be clear, uh Mr. Mayor, the 39,000 on retirement, does that adjust annually as well? So, he has the same adjustment that is coming from the previous council. Okay. Which, by the way, we can do with wages, too, but he has the same adjustment that the city attorney. So, it went up to 17.5 uh% this year, effect of October 1, and it will go up another 2 and 1 half% next year on October 1. Okay. To 20% total. Okay.

Based on his whatever his I look at total compensation. I don't want to look at just necessarily the salary. I look at the I look at the total package. So, um I'm I'm uh I'm at the number with you, Scott, in this particular situation at at 215 on the base salary. Okay. And just because I have the just because I have the calculator up at assuming he's going to get to uh the 20% retirement, that would put total compensation at 258. Um 215 and then that put 258 is his total compensation once he's at the 20% next year. Correct. Just having a little forward there. Right. Right. Right. [clears throat]

Right. So, we we've got two of us that are about 215, two of us at at uh one at 220 and two at 230. You know what? If we can if we can, guys, let's let's come to an agreement here. Let's get this done. Let's let's try to be 50 on this if we can and and and and move on from here. So, uh, again, we got to look at what kind of facility afford. Let's not make We afford this kind of jump this year cuz again, I I feel, you know, again, we got to do this every single year. And I don't, you know, I don't want to go and take huge climbs to get Wayne where he needs to be, but at the same time, we still got to be able to afford this. Remind me, Scott, you just laid out, but where's everyone at?

So, it it looks like a we're right at about 220. I'll make a motion um for 220,000 as his salary with uh no other changes. I would second that. All right. We have a motion and a second to increase the city manager's base salary to $220,000 from its current salary of 195. We have a motion and a second. Any more discussion on council before we vote? I think we beat it up enough. Anybody from the public wish to speak to it? Stand. Going once, twice, three. Okay. All right. Back to council. Last chance. Clerk, call the roll. Councilman Fing, yes. Council Ger, yes. Councilman Green, yes. Vice Mayor Grabs. Yes. Mayor,

yes. You two will have to buy your Just and and I'm sorry, one second. I'm going to come back to you. I didn't give you a chance to to comment on your behalf if you'd like, but go ahead. You can do it.

I just want to say thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate the council that hired me and the one that's letting me stay here. The family does appreciate it. I'm very proud of the city. I think it's a great community. I do think even though occasionally we get with some some contested items here, most of the people really love living here. Very safe community. I think the the trunk or treat is exactly what we're all about. That's what we do. That's the kind of place we are. U probably the best thing out of this tonight, probably Matt and I both is that knowing that we're on the same page with the council, the same strategy, the same vision, the same direction. What that does is allow these people here that do all the work. As you've all pointed out, these guys are out there. They're proactively finding ways to do things better. All those great ideas, one of them came and brought it to me. Uh that's the best way for me to keep this team together. If we want to keep winning national championships, you keep the team together and and the the kind words and the support and and keeping Matt here. The stability among us keeps this team together. That's what allows us to continue to deliver great services at great value to this community. So, thank you.

Agreed. And we'll the five of us will all work on being as the brevity that you have. There's some lights less than 90. I I need to [laughter] make an effective date on that. I'm assuming I missed the effective date. Is that what you're going to tell me? I think your intention was to be the next next pay period. That was my intention. Same as Matt. And we we both have contract provision that specify when this takes place. We just ran into an issue where we had a bunch of seat collective bargaining agreements that were open. We wanted to get those all resolved. So if it's if I can get a quick consensus that we can revise that revisions so it's not a hard fast date of when the eval takes place just on or before the next fiscal year. It'll give us that latitude to do that. Just pull it off for a couple years.

That's fine. Good. You guys all good with that? We got consensus on all that. All right, moving on. Item 15, city council committee reports. Mr. Foley, I had a pinch hitter for this one. So designate. Oh yeah. Yeah. TPO meeting uh went quite well. Uh one of the big things that came out of it is the Willer Run and Harms Way extension for the sidewalks is coming. Uh that's a $90,000 add-on to our city that TPO is taking care of. So that's coming.

Excellent. Yeah, the side the sidewalk stuff all over Valuchia County is um is a is a big topic and there's there's it's concrete. It's going to break. You know, it's hard. What do they say? There's two things about concrete. You know for sure it's going to get hard and it's going to break at some. So, um, anything else? Nope. Anything else to come before the council? All right, we will see you guys back here in two weeks. Have a great night.