City Council - Regular Meeting

Please rise.

Amen. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Councilman Holey, Councilman Gford here. Councilman Green here. Vice Mayor Gross here. Mayor here. We do have a quum for this evening. All right. Item four, public comments on consent agenda items only. Do we have any public comments on consent agenda items? Seeing none, I will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items. Get approval for consent agenda items uh five 5 through 10 through 10. Second.

We have a motion and a second to approve consent agenda items 5 through 10. Will clerk call the role? Council Gford. Yes. Councilman Green. Yes. Vice Mayor D? Yes. Mayor Ser. Yes. 40. Moving us quickly to item number 11, retirement recognition for K9 Buddy. Chief, why don't you guys come on down? [Music] [Applause]

Good evening, uh, mayor, council, city manager, city attorney, city staff, and guests. uh Manny Marino, Chief of Police, and I get the distinct pleasure tonight to um to welcome Buddy into retirement. Evidently, um you saw on the consent agenda item, there's an there was an item before you uh to grant um ownership to K9 officer Christa McBride. Chris has been Buddy's handler for the last six and a half years. Um like me, you can see uh Buddy's put on a couple gray hairs and he's moving a little bit slower and uh he actually though was still still going strong. I believe right up until the summer he was still I saw some apprehension, some narcotics arrests. Um unfortunately he did suffer another injury and we decided it was time. Uh Kristen Buddy have been uh representatives of the department as you've seen through social media, you know, between doing, forget the, you know, the law enforcement work part of it, you know, K9 detections and more, I mean, narcotic detection and more recently tracking. Um they've been great with um community groups, schools, special events like family days, and uh they really enjoy the work they do, and you can see buddy light up uh when they're doing it. In addition to that, uh, Officer McBride and K9, uh, the most recent award they won, I believe, was top dog, right, Kristen?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. For two years in a row, she was selected as the top handler and buddy as the top dog in the Space Coast K9 conference. Correct. So, together, they've been awesome partners. Uh, we really appreciate you uh allowing her to do this. Uh, there's a special bond between the K9 and their handler. uh you know they they're together all shift every shift they train even on their days off and the dogs with them in their home uh so I think it was only fitting and we appreciate you doing that for us so with that Kristen

uh just want to say thank you for uh giving me um for giving me such a good partner I'm really happy that I get to retire him on his own terms. Nice. Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you. Don't go anywhere. [Applause] Christa, I just want to I want to say to you u you know, having worked in your world a little bit and and and been involved with K9 teams in the past, I can truly appreciate the amount of work that goes into that partnership. not only when you're on the clock, but when you're at home, it's it's a 247 commitment that a lot of people really don't realize. The amount of training, the amount of care, it is it is it's it it's a part of you. It is truly a partnership that probably is unmatched in any other element of law enforcement because they are with you all the time and they become not only your partner, but they become your family members. Um, and they mean the world to the family and um, we appreciate everything that that you and Buddy have done together for the community. I know I I've seen you out and about and I've seen you interacting with the community and the kids and all that stuff and and it's amazing and it it's priceless. It really is. And uh, but I just want to thank you and your family because by the way, I know there's other people involved and partners on on on the shifts, right? I mean, everybody plays a role and and with these K9 teams and so we truly appreciate, you know, what you have done and what you have been able to bring to the department and and the in the level of quality that you bring to it as well. I think I think the accolades and the recognitions that you've received, you and Buddy have received uh go without saying that you guys have done it right and you've done it extremely well. So, we are we are immensely grateful and I would agree. I'm glad that this is happening on your terms and Buddy's terms and uh I and I know Buddy will be well cared for and and plenty of love and they get extra treats in retirement,

right? I mean, a lot extra. So, lots and lots of extra treats. So, again, thank you uh for everything you guys have done. Tracy, you want Yeah. What having this as an opportunity for y'all to stay together is beyond what needs to be. Uh having partner uh humankind is one thing, but having an animal at your side 24/7 is is special. So congratulations.

Yeah, it's good to see uh someone serve our city for six years. Some officers don't make it that long, but he has. So, thank you for uh your service and thank you for taking him in for the rest of his life. And I'm sure your family's excited about that. All right. Good. Yeah, I think the mayor's covered most of it, but again, thank you and uh I know Buddy Buddy's in good hands and uh and he's going to enjoy his retirement. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, guys.

Thank you. Christa, can we get can we get you and your family just kind of come right over here um with any other officers that are here tonight and the chief and we want to just get get one more final picture. And if you don't care, I'm going to come down this way. Maybe he could fight the mayor one last time on the way. Good boy. Good boy. Good boy. [Applause]

No rules. [Music] [Laughter] No rules.

Smell over there. All right, item number 12. How about the Valuchia Young Marines come on down front and center here tonight. All right. who is speaking on on behalf of this fine group. What do you want me to say? Come on. Come on up here. Come on up here and and introduce yourselves. Tell us a little bit about your organization and then when you're done, I've got a proclamation to read for you guys.

Uh my name is David Owen. Uh I'm the executive officer for Lucia Young Marines. Uh we are ages 8 to 18. Uh we kind of mirror the Marine Corps rank structure, but uh one of the things that we're here tonight for is drug demand redemption and it's we try to keep the drug the kids drug-free and teach them about the different bad drugs and how to say no. And we're all about teamwork, leadership, and discipline is what we try to teach them. And we meet twice a month, the second and fourth Saturday of the month. Um, this past weekend we were at uh the American Legion for the Veterans Expo where they had the traveling wall and our young Marines honor guard got to present colors and do different things for the veteran expo down there. We do a lot of community service.

Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. And you can you introduce You know what? Let's have them all in introduce themselves. How about that? Can you guys come on up here one at a time? Tell us tell us your name and how old you are. Where do you go to school? Oldacre 10. Where do you go to school? I don't go to school. I'm homeschooled. All right. All right. Come on up, guys. Who's up next? Hey, make sure you tell your rank. Okay. The right way. Get close to the mic there. There you go.

My name is Young Marine Private Venom K. I'm 9 years old and I go to Portal Elementary. Great job. Excellent. Great job. My name is Young Marine Lance Corporal Van Orbin and I am 13 years old and I go and I'm actually homeschooled FVS. Excellent. Thank you. [Applause] I'm recruit. I'm 14 and I go to Silver Sand Middle School.

Thanks. Great to be here. [Applause] Um, I am I Messiah. I am 11 years old and I go to Creek Side Middle School. All right. [Applause] Hi, I'm Young Marine PFC Burkhard. I'm 14 and I go to Silver Sands Middle School. Great. Thank you. And I see you've got a fist full of red ribbons there. Yes, sir. as well.

All right, if you guys will give me just a moment, I want to read this proclamation and then I'll come down there and get a picture with you guys. Okay. Whereas communities across America have been plagued by numerous problems associated with illicit drug use and those that traffic in them. And whereas there is hope in winning the war on drugs, and that hope lies in education and drug demand reduction, coupled with the hard work and determination of organizations such as the Young Marines of the Marine Corps League to foster a healthy, drug-free lifestyle. And whereas government and community leaders know that citizen support is one of the most effective tools in the effort to reduce the use of elicit drugs in our communities. And whereas the red ribbon has been chosen as a symbol of commemorating the work of Enrique Tik Camarina, a Drug Enforcement Administration agent who was murdered in the line of duty and represents the belief that one person can make a difference. And whereas the Red Ribbon campaign was established by Congress in 1988 to encourage a drug-free lifestyle and involvement in drug prevention and reduction efforts. And whereas October 23rd through the 31st has been designated as National Red Ribbon Week, which encourages Americans to wear a red ribbon to show their support for a drug-free environment. Now therefore, I, Scott Stilner, mayor of the city of Port Orange, do hereby proclaim October 23rd through the 31st of 2025 as Red Ribbon Week in the city of Port Orange and encourage all citizens to participate in drugrevention education activities, not only during Red Ribbon Week, but also throughout the year, making it a visible statement that we strongly we are strongly committed to a drug-free lifestyle. [Applause]

Got it.

Smile. Great job, guys. [Applause]

Great handshakes. You guys have been practicing those. I love it. Thank you guys. All the way across the top. All right. Good job, kid. Thank you. Hey, keep it up. All right.

Oh, you won't get it. You're fine. Yeah. Very much. Thank you. All right, that'll bring us to item number 13, proclamation for manufacturing month. We have anybody here to present? Come on up.

How are you? I'm great. How are you? Good, good, good, good to see you. Go ahead and tell us who you guys are and I'll read this proclamation here.

Fantastic. My name is Jessica Lovevet. I am the president and CEO of the VMA, the region's number one resource for manufacturers. We service Felia, Flaggler, a little bit of Seminal, a little bit of Bard counties. We get all of our manufacturers together in the area to share best practices so they can become better, faster, stronger in any way that we can help them do so. I don't know if you know this, but we have over 500 manufacturers in Valuchia County alone. So everybody clap. We need to make sure that we have great goods here that are local and that we don't have to ship in from anywhere else. So thank you for the proclamation, y'all. I appreciate you being here. Thank you guys.

All right. Whereas October 3rd, 2025 is recognized as a national manufacturing day by the manufacturing institute. The Valuchia Manufacturers Association will launch the month with we make it here day followed by events throughout October to raise awareness of the importance of manufacturing in the Valuchia County area and highlight its industry highskill highwage careers. And whereas manufacturing month is an opportunity to recognize the key role manufacturing plays in Valuchia Countyy's economy, supporting over 12,000 jobs and contributing more than 1.3 billion annually. The industry offers careers averaging $62,550 per year and plays a vital part in driving local growth and innovation. And whereas the VMA supports manufacturers year round through advocacy, training, partnerships, and resource sharing. During manufacturing month, the VMA showcases local innovation and economic impact through tours, outreach, and events that strengthen the manufacturing community and raise public awareness. And whereas the city of Port Orange proudly supports manufacturing month and recognizes the vital contributions of our local manufacturers and leadership of the VMA. Now therefore, I, Scott Stiltner, mayor of the city of Port Orange, Florida, on behalf of the commission, do hereby proclaim October 25th as manufacturing month in the city of Port Orange and encourage all citizens to join in recognizing the vital role of our manufacturers and the importance they serve. [Applause] There you go.

Thank you so much. Thank you guys. See you later.

Item 14, Art House update. Do we have anybody here from Art House? I don't think they're here tonight. Wave your hand if you are here.

I actually have Cameron's report. So Cameron, the executive director of Bird House, uh, apologizes for not being here tonight. She's actually at the county council meeting, uh, fighting for the cultural grant. Um, as many of youall know, the V County Council re recently pulled the long-standing cultural grant and it is consent agenda, leaving more than 600,000 of funding unallocated. The grant represents 0.04 of a percent of the overall budget. Nearly every dollar that is done for the cultural grant, $2 have been uh notated. They've coming back in investment back. uh the impact of losing this uh funding uh countywide of hundreds of students, scholarships, exhibitors uh affecting over 200 youth scholarships of free reduced costs of programs and field trips throughout the year. Uh so that's where she is currently. Um there is a petition that is up on their website and she's just asking for people to go forward and sign a petition to try to help with the new fundings. Um currently there is 2,300 people have signed up as of the last 10 days. So 10 days they got that many people that are there and that's and that's why she's not here tonight.

Okay. Okay. They did a great job during family days with the uh with the sidewall chalk chalk art competition. So, I would have definitely liked to have praised her for that tonight, but we'll do that in the future. Item D, public participation for non-aggended items. Cassandra Rhodess from the Port Orange South Daytona Chamber of Hi, welcome.

Come on up. Evening esteemed council members, guests. Just wanted to give kind of an update. As usual, we do have our monthly business after hours that are going on as well as the morning mix and mingles. But also to highlight, we do have our annual banquet that is going to be coming up quickly, December 3rd. Tickets will be going on sale shortly. So, it is sure to sell out. Always does. So, definitely want to, you know, see everybody there. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you for what you do. appreciate you. Lori Becker on National Preparedness Month.

Hey Lori, welcome.

Good evening, council members. Um, I would just want to remind everybody that this is National Preparedness Month. Here's a big ready.gov information flyer on this. While we are still searching for short range plans, short-term plans for flooding mitigation in our community, I would just like to add two items possibly we could think about. One of them is a social media PR showcase, diying some projects, some very simple projects just as a reminder to our community that we are responsible for our own property. And perhaps we can do that by putting some DIY programs on this website, something flood related. Number two, a residential mitigation grant program for substantially flooded homes that meet criteria. I have presented that proposal to each of you. I appreciate uh Mr. Green and Ghart and mayor for actually responding to that proposal. I seriously think that we have got to get our community built back better for the next flood. We have to fight this from the inside out. We don't have time to wait for all these great projects that are coming our way. I'm well aware of that as everybody else is. But in the meantime, we're going to take on water. And a lot of people just don't have money to fix their homes. I personally have spent $10,000 in the last three years trying to make sure that I will not flood again and get a nasty gram from the city that says that I substantially flooded three times. So, let's work together. I really believe that we have to stop fighting the water and we have to start living with the water through mitigation, waterproofing, floodgates, French drains, gutters, building back

better, and hopefully a storm water master plan that will put this city back on its feet again. Thank you. National Disaster Preparedness Month. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Katherine Pante to speak on the consent agenda items. Oh, I thought it just was public comment. No. Did you want to talk about the previous consent agenda items that we already approved? No, they told me public comment. They said that's already been passed. This is your time to speak. I got Come on. Okay. Yeah. It just said on here it said for consent agenda. So, go ahead.

Good evening, commissioners. Katherryn Pante, address protected. I'm here tonight to speak in opposition to the Vintage Acres Development. I'm sorry. I had a feeling we're going to come to that. That's actually an agenda item. I apologize, Kather. All right. I'm so sorry. I will get you back up here in just a few. You go first. That sounds like a wonderful plan. I got it right there on the top. All right. Sorry about that. Um, item 15. We We didn't have any other for the Okay. Item 15, council members. Tracy, go right ahead. We'll start with you tonight.

We'll start off with family days. Uh little bit of dampness on Saturday, but Sunday was absolutely gorgeous. If you haven't uh had a chance to walk around city hall and looking at the chalk art, which I know uh the mayor got a chance to vote on it, it was absolutely spectacular. Uh I think he would agree upon that. Um it's out there. They uh earnest are just unbelievable. ages from I think the youngest I saw was age eight moving all the way up. And what they do is just amazing. Uh they they seal it so it's actually out there for the next probably month, month and a half. It'll be sitting out there for everybody to walk by and see what they do. Um, on another note, uh, two weeks ago when we met here, we talked about, uh, the red tapes and things of that nature of how we have to get through to get to some of these permittings is dealing with the Army Corps of Engineer, uh, as being one of our hardest ones. Um, had great news yesterday and I'm going to pass that news off to, uh, uh, our assistant city manager, Robin, and let her deliver that to everybody. Good evening, mayor, council. Robin Benwick, assistant city manager. And uh Lori Lori's right. We we have a lot of great projects coming our way. And the first one is is the uh Cambridge Pond and Pump Station project. And we did receive good news that we they've issued our permit from the Army Corps. So next up is and we're working um diligently with the St. John's River Water Management District now finalizing some things, but we are still on track for that to go out to bid in the next couple of months later this fall and construction is anticipated to begin early 2026. So, that's the first project you guys will probably see.

Excellent. Very good. Thank you, Rob. You're welcome. I I can't top that. Phenomenal news. Leave it right there. Right. For sure.

Sean, go right ahead. I just want to say um I'm thankful that the buildings on the corner of US1 and Dunlotton are coming down now that they've been vacated and we can start making that that corner a little more uh appealing for a potential purchaser in the future. Also want to uh commend the staff and our safety for u running a well it was Port Community Trust doing this family days event here on our our property every year. Yeah, we had some rain, but it didn't slow too many people down. It was a great event. Sunday was fantastic. Great weather. Uh, so just thank for our our safety and our parks and wreck for just having a really smooth event. Um, I got to participate in that little parade. That was a lot of fun and uh our company participated in and uh supporting that event with three booths. I had never had so much cotton candy up my elbow in my entire life, but uh it was a lot of fun and um looking forward to to uh the future events uh for them and hopefully they'll be able to have them this year. We got lucky and didn't get rained out or didn't get hurricane out. So, um really that's all I have for now.

Nothing tonight for me, Mr. Mayor.

All right, sounds good. Uh, I I I just want to echo thank you to all of the volunteers with the Port Ranch Community Trust, all of our city staff and all the different departments that it takes to do a family day event. Um, you're absolutely right. It was a great event. Sunday was gorgeous. I mean, beautiful event, very well attended. It was great to see people be able to get out with their families and enjoy the city center complex. Also want to to uh from item 10 tonight on the consent agenda. I wanted to just a quick thank you to our city and our county staff for moving quickly to get the uh transform 386 JPA done and get that ball rolling quickly as possible. It's only it's this is the first meeting and there's always already continuing progress. So uh thank you to you guys for that. City attorney, what do you got?

Nothing for you tonight. Nothing. All right, Mr. Mr. City Manager, I don't have anything additional. Nothing additional. All right. See if you guys can drag you guys into something later. Item 18 is the citizen advisory committee for TPO. Bobby Ball reached out to me. He was not able to be here tonight, so we will get an update from him on the next one. Item 19 is parks and wreck board update. And I believe Mike Navaro is here. There he is. How you doing? In the flesh. Welcome. Good to see you. We haven't seen you in a while. I know. All right. Hey, Mike, parks and wreck board vice chair. Um, thanks for being here. Tell us what's going on in parks and recck.

All right, we had our uh meeting tonight and um we had project updates. The parks and wreck is a new page where all the project updates are located. Um they were showing it to us in the meeting. It's it's pretty substantial. Um locates tells us all the projects, what's going on, where they are in process. So I think that's going to be good for everybody to get the uh uh items out there from the bond issue. Um they had a white place meeting. Um it's 100 100% planned out. So um they would need to be doing that renovation soon. Uh city center is in planning and Willow Run Park is in planning and they had a citizen meeting the other day about that. Um rest rec west is out for plans. I mean, that's been a big thing for

the parks and rec board since I've been on it is having another rec center out in the west because the one here is so packed and it just seems like that's where people need to, you know, get some people out there. So, I think that'll be a I think it's going to be well uh received from everybody. Um Karachi Fields drainage improvements. They're working on drainage improvements. Get Karachi fields taken care of. Um they hope to get two fields done right now and then we'll get another two fields done in a little bit. And uh according to 26 projects for next year we're going to be doing. So that's all I got. Did you guys get a chance to uh talk about and and look over any of the feedback that I know staff was working on and some of your folks attended on the light place uh project over there on the east side of the city.

We haven't seen the feedback yet. Okay. All right. Very very well attended. Oh yeah. A lot of pickle balls. A lot of pickles with a heavy pickle ball flare. Um, but uh I tell you what's interesting is is to to go over and see how well which is that's our oldest parks and wreck area of the city and to see how well it is still being utilized all the time cuz that was the only field you could get. You know, it's we sneak over there all the time and practice. Yeah. I I I actually learned that there is an actual Port Orange Horseshoe Club that I was unaware of and they are serious about horseshoes. And all you got to do is talk to them for a minute and you'll find out how serious

it just if parks change, you know, that's part of the the board. You know, parks change over time, you know, like that wasn't well developed. Now we put a pickle ball and it's most one of the most used parts we have. So sometimes it's just, you know, you have to move on from what it was and move on to what it needs to be. That's right. So all right, thanks Mike. Appreciate you being here tonight. Thank you. All right. Item 20, first reading of ordinance number 2025-26. And uh if it's okay with everybody, I think we're going to open items 20 and 21 at the same time since they are same topic. Does that sound okay with you, Miss Cruz? Yes, sir. All right. I'll I'll yield to the city attorney to read.

Sure. Um, ordinance number 2025-26 is an ordinance to the city of Orange Blush County FL relating to comprehensive planning. Amending the future land use map of the comprehensive plan amending the future land use flu designation for 52.96 acres from Valuchia County agriculture resource one unit per 10 acres to city of Port Orange Rural Transition 0 to two units per acre. Amending 3.57 acres of the Valuchia County urban low intensity zero to four units per acre to city of Port Orange Rural Transition 0 to two units per acre for property generally located north of Charles Street and west of Airport Road. Authorized transmitt to required agencies providing for conflicting ordinances seability and an effective date.

Can I get a motion and a second to get um item number 20 on the floor? Yeah, I move to approve ordinance 2025-26. Second. We have a motion and a second. Can you go ahead and read and introduce item 21, ordinance number 2025-27?

Sure. It's an ordinance of the city pool and Valuchia County Florida reszoning property consisting of approximately 56.53 acres uh of Valuchia County A1 prime agriculture and plus or minus 3.57 acres of Valuchia County A2 rural agriculture to city of Port Orange's plan unit development PUD and establishing the vintage acres master development agreement and conceptual development plan for property generally located north of Charles Street and west of Airport Road providing for conflicting ordinances severability and an effective Can I get a motion and a second for item 21? Go ahead and do a motion for 2025-27. Second. Have a motion in a second. Floor is yours.

Good evening, Mayor Council Penelopey Cruise Planning. Um, as the city attorney just mentioned, the subject property is located on the west side of Airport Road north of Charles Street and it was recently annexed into the city of Port Orange in June. As discussed during the public hearings for the voluntary annexation, the next step as required by Florida statute are to assign a city future land use and the city zoning um classification that's required by Florida statutes in order for us to have jurisdiction over the property that was re recently annexed. So, the subject applications that the applicants um requesting is to establish that city future land use designation and city zoning classification to support the development of a residential subdivision consistent with what was outlined in the annexation staff report and the public hearing discussion for the annexation at that time. The property is primarily cleared vacant pasture land with a single family home, detached garage and pole barn located at the northeast corner of the subject property. Based on the aerial imagery available to staff, subject property has been this cleared pasture land since at least 1978. We've been told it was a lot longer than that, but that's the aerial imagery that we have. Um, and according to the environmental report, there are no wetlands on the property with the first item. We guys, listen, hang on a second. We can't have that in here. We we're going to let everybody speak tonight that that has signed up to speak. Okay. Ple please let the speakers and the presenters provide their information. Okay. That that is that is important.

Go ahead. Thank you.

With the first item, the applicant was requesting to change the future land use map designation from approximately 52.96 acres of Alia County agricultural resource and 3.57 acres of Alutia County low impact intensity to city of Port Orange rural transition. The rural transition future land use designation is intended for lands near Spruce Creek, its tributaries, um, and where properties lie between agricultural uses and established residential neighborhoods with development limited to no more than two units per acre. The subject property meets this locational criteria for the rural transition future land use designation as it is situated adjacent to the Spruce Creek, bordered by agricultural land to the south, and developed residential neighborhoods to the north, northeast, and west. Urban services are available in the airport road ride rightway to serve the site and the proposed vintage acres PUD aligns with the maximum allowed density of two units per acre. According to the infrastructure impact analysis and the comprehensive plan amendment staff report, adequate capacity exists for sewer, portable water, solid waste, recreation and schools to accommodate the proposed amendment. And as for traffic, only one roadway segment, Pioneer Trail from Airport Road to Turnbull Bay Road was identified that may be above the adopted LOS standard. And as required by the land development code, any future subdivision platin plan for the subject property will be subject to all traffic concurrency regulations requiring that adequate public facilities be provided or mitigated um any of the impacts created by the proposed development at that time. Approval of a triparty agreement um for transportation fair share between the city of Port Orange Valuchia County and the developer may be required at that time to address roadway network um impacts. With the second item that was opened, the applicant is requesting a reszoning of approximately 56.53 acres consisting of 52.96 acres zoned Valuchia County A1

and 3.57 acres zoned to Valuchia County A2 to City of Port Orange planned unit development and to establish the Vintage Acres Master Development Agreement and conceptual development plan to establish the development framework for the proposed future single family residential subdivision. The proposed vintage acres PUB allows for the development of up to 113 residential dwelling units, resulting in a density of two units per acre, consistent with the density of the surrounding area. The main public access point into the proposed subdivision will be from Airport Road. An emergency only access will be provided as a connection to Charles Street, usable only during emergencies if the airport road access point is blocked. The gated emergency access will be maintained by the HOA in size to accommodate emergency vehicles. A right turn lane and left turn lane from Airport Road into the subdivision will be constructed. And all of these roadway improvements will be subject to approval through the Valuchia County driveway permitting process as they are the maintaining agencies of those roads. An 8 foot wide sidewalk will be constructed along airport road frontage of the subject property to connect to the existing airport road sidewalk and the internal subdivision sidewalk network. All streets within the subdivision are proposed to be public designed in accordance with the city's local roadway standard, including a 4-ft sidewalk on both sides of the road. The proposed dimensional requirements for the PUD are generally consistent with adjacent city residential subdivisions in a PUD. And the proposed PUD will comply with the tree preservation requirements in the city's land development code and exceed the landscape buffer requirements. And when that and when a future subdivision platin plan is submitted that formal review of the landscape and tree preservation areas will occur to verify that compliance. The proposed concept plan also indicates a minimum of 65% open space of the PUD,

which exceeds the city's standard of a minimum 60% open space by 5% or 2.83 acres. According to the city's regulations, a subject property must be able to maintain storm water on the property after development as it does prior to development or in its current undeveloped condition. Therefore, with the development of the subject property, there can be no loss in the ability to hold storm water or an increase in the volume of storm water discharged or the peak rate storm water is discharged from the subject property into the regional drainage system. In addition to complying with these city regulations, the subject property will be required to meet all applicable state and regional permitting requirements for storm water management, including those of the St. John's River Water Management District, the Department of Environmental Protection in Valuchia County prior to any development on the subject property. Currently, storm water on the undeveloped subject property is partially absorbed into the ground with some collecting in low areas and ditches on the subject property. Runoff not absorbed or stored on site drains into the Valuchia County maintained roadway swailes along Charles Street, Russell Road, and Airport Road. From there, it flows towards a countymained swale at the southwest intersection of Charles Street and Russell Road, then into Spruce Creek, and ultimately discharges into the Halifax River. According to the project engineer and the Vintage Acres MDA, there is text in the MDA that includes storm water requirements that exceed the city's current requirements. Specifically, the MDA requires the storm water system to reduce the peak flow rate storm water can leave the site and the total volume of water that drains off the site by an additional 25% beyond the current requirements in the land development code. To meet this higher standard in the PUD, storm water ponds for the subdivision will be

required to be larger and have additional capacity to store more storm water on site than is currently required by the land development code design storm event. Therefore, more of the subject property will be set aside for storm water storage than would be required under the current code requirements. This added storm water pond capacity is to hold more storm water on site, reducing the amount of storm water leaving the property during major storm events and going into the public drainage system. There are no policy deviations requested as part of this PUD. The proposed subdivision will comply with all applicable requirements of the city's land development code. And according to the master development agreement and conceptual development plan, certain provisions within the PUD exceed minimum standards of the land development code. If the proposed comprehensive plan amendment and vintage acres PUD are approved, the applicant must later submit a detailed subdivision plan that complies with the master development agreement, conceptual development plan, land development code, and applicable state and regional requirements from the St. John's River Water Management District, Department of Environmental Protection in Valuchia County. Public notice signs were posted on the subject property on August 1st. staff has received phone calls or emails from 13 individuals requesting general information on the proposed resoning and primarily the concerns raised during those calls were avoiding vehicular access on Charles or Russell Road and potential drainage impacts. The applicant also held a neighborhood meeting on September the 4th. Approximately 45 residents attended that meeting and according to the applicants meeting summary, the main questions and concerns raised by the applicants included drainage, school capacity, and pedestrian safety. The planning commission recommended approval of both items. Staff is recommending approval of both items and is here to answer any questions you have. And the applicant is

also here and I believe has an um presentation they'd like to present. Okay, we'll come back to you in just a bit then. Yes, sir. Thank you. You're welcome. All right, Katherine Pante. Sorry to make you get up twice, but come on up. Can you have a have the applicant speak first? Yeah, but we're not but but we're going to want to ask questions later. They want to do that first. They wanted to do their Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Sorry, Katherine. I got to I got to delay you one more time. Well, no, no, no. You I'm sorry. Just hang on. We'll let them give their their presentation first. Just kidding. Yeah,

I just figured we would let you hear questions and you could address those later, too. But go ahead. I'd love to have that opportunity, too. But um we'll see.

We'll see. Um but uh here we go. And uh uh good evening, uh Joey Posie, 420 South Nova, attorney for the applicant. Penny touched on a lot of what I'm going to touch on very briefly, but um just to add some context and color to a lot of the conversations that have happened. Um you know, this isn't something that happens overnight. uh you know this these conversations are years in the making that when you go to site design when you're thinking about how to design these projects um you know it's it's a collaborative effort with a lot of consultants and a lot of staff time that uh doesn't seem readily apparent because when you get a public notice sign that goes up in August um that's really for a lot of folks that's the first uh impression that you get that you see a sign you wonder what's going on and you you feel the impacts so uh with that in mind I I just want that to be clear that you this is, you know, you've been vetted over and over again when it comes through these processes and it's not for lack of, you know, being pulled in all directions. You try to make the best project you can, but that, you know, these things just don't happen overnight. So, uh, like at Penny had identified, uh, it this is an old farm. We we have aerials going back several decades, but, uh, the easiest available ones were from 78. And really just to show that uh you know as uh Spruce Creek Flying was coming online and development was occurring and a lot of the other subdivisions that are older in that area that uh this was this was a farm. Um Penny and I had mentioned the future land use, the zoning, the request. Uh just to give you context again uh just of what's around uh it's got residential communities in three directions uh in a future land use uh designations that you can see the transition that's occurring. And when it comes to what would appropriately be identified for this site, you can see the the easy transition into the rural transition, why it would be two units an acre. uh even uh you know even in the county back

in the 80s with the mobile home community I think it's around 2.4 units per acre. So it's even more dense than us to the the west of us and it's clearly more dense to the north of us at closer to three units an acre. Um here's the historical aerials. I added one from 84 just to maybe give some more context and uh like I was talking about with the evolution of this uh project and how it keeps how it's moved and a lot of it is you know feedback from staff of it is feedback from consultants and it's you know originally uh the the concept included a little bit of additional property uh and it was at 153 units and it moved down to 124 units and then there's a redesign that occurs um with the access point of Charles and one of the rap and one of the culacs and then we're at 119 units and then we're again talking about Charles Street and how to accommodate concerns um you know given the folks to the the south of the community that are feeling impacted and you know the redesign that was agreed to required an emergency access only to keep residents and keeping it a little more private and a little more rural as you move south. uh which got which brings us to today's plan which is the 112 units plus the Balman track to the north. Um the points that Penny identified with the 65% uh in loop 60 uh you know we were able to capture 5% more acreage uh or 5% more uh uh open space coverage. Uh it's only 34.7% impervious. Uh you know there's many many projects that far exceed that. Uh but the thing I think that's really nice about this project is 100% of the specimen trees are uh being preserved. Uh you know it's part of the design that we're trying we don't want to impact those trees that they're an amenity when it comes to this but you know amenities come at a cost and when you're come when you're talking about site design. Uh and the minimum requirement for a site like this is 34.

Uh this as Penny had alluded to the storm water discharge we're increasing beyond 100year. Uh that's something we voluntarily agreed to as part of our PUB plan. Um the it's going to discharge uh at Penny identified the runoff would be less the volume the rate uh you get more volume get less rate creating more capacity into the system and and that's the that's the overall goal through the storm water design for this project. Uh we've doubled the buffers on Russell Road, Charles and Airport uh to give folks uh you know more screening to make this a little more uh blend a little more than would typically be required by the PUD. And there's no waiverss or variances. Uh it's it checks every box. Every PUD box that you got, it checks. And um again, it's uh you know, dimension dimensional standards are compatible. You know, it's a give and take when you're talking about how you design storm water, how you design the open space and those in those common tracks and how to incorporate them in a way that uh clusters the development to in some respects and but these are larger tracks and it helps maintain the character and the surrounding neighborhood. Um the current as Penny had mentioned the roadway is can accommodate the project volume and there's uh left turns and right turn lanes being incorporated as part of the design to to address that. Uh and we're required to enter into a proportionate share agreement for impact fees which can go towards other improvements or more specific improvements that may be required or may be a priority for the city. Um we have a uh standard 24 foot wide lanes plus the twoft Miami cutters. So there's no issue with clearance in the community going um in both directions. So, um it's in that way that you don't get an issue with the parking in the road and you know there's plenty of clearance in the community uh and for especially emergency vehicles and the pedestrian

uh concerns that were identified again the right turn left turn lanes that we have no problem with trying to create a uh pedestrian friendly access point to to get to the school make sure you can get to the sideway sidewalk network. That's we have no problem with that. And there's sidewalks on both sides in this community, unlike some of the some other projects that maybe incorporate sidewalks in one side. U just an example of some of the features that are going. These are larger upscale homes. They have architectural interest, enhanced curb appeal. It's supposed to be a quality community. It's, you know, and that's that's the goal from the developer side. Uh you know, he's a local builder and I'll mention him briefly uh once we get to it. you know, just some artist sketches of the renderings of the entrance, the project again, and uh and then as was mentioned in the neighborhood meeting, uh we've had many conversations post meeting. Um the existing flight path was mentioned also. We were happy to address that concern too that we have a covenant that is very clear in our in our documents that make it clear that you're moving into potentially a flight path community that that's that's the flying. That's that's not a problem. We were happy to address that. Uh management of the nutrients and storm water runoff. You know, part of the commitment we're making too with the upgrades to the storm water system is that loro plantings and trying to add that to the shelves of those ponds was also something that we're happy to do. Um pedestrian safety and school route. again those access points we we're we have the same concern and we're happy to do it to make sure that there's there's a safe way for folks to get to the school for just to walk around the community or walk generally. Um and as Penny had identified, you know, minimate those risks when it comes to floods. Uh we we've designed a system at 125%. That's really what we're talking about. and and that in itself is besides being a benefit for volume, it's also a benefit for nitrogen nitrogen and phosphorus because of the dry and wet

retention that's now required for these type of projects. Uh this is the flight paths that we were aware of. Uh just to you show that you know we're diligently looking at these issues too. Um we've agreed to the visual buffers that's not a problem. The Florida friendly plantings uh for the landscaping we're happy to do that too. Uh the HOA docks. Again, we're next to a private airport community. We and we recognize that and so will folks that move into this community. Uh and we've agreed to all those changes. That's not a problem. Uh just to quickly mention the uh the wet detention ponds is a volume that's 50% of what is required by city code and that results in at least a 25% reduction in the 25 year and 100year at a 24-hour storm event. when it comes to rate, volume, everything. So there and I had confirmed with Tim that there's no other project that meets that standard in the city. So you know we are at the I guess both the guinea pigs and at the front end of something that is trying to be ahead of a concern and to do it the right way because we want to be a part of the solution. Uh and you also have a local builder. Uh I mean it's most of the folks in here I'm sure can recognize Pis Homes and they've been a family that's lived in Port Orange all their you know since at least the 70s and uh you know they're they're part of this community too and they recognize that a lot of these projects are a reflection of them. So when you see names like Cypress Head Sawrass Point building even in the flyin he his name's on those. So you know he's also accountable to these folks too. So, that's just something to keep in mind that you get a a rare mix of somebody who has local ties like this to a project that um you know that just has that local connection. Uh again, the obvious stuff I think is

the new houses. It's you know it's a new tax base because you know when you're talking about how to fund these improvements when the bigger discussions happen with storm water, the money's got to come from somewhere and you know we're not trying to be the problem. We're trying to be part of the solution. So when there's new revenues that come in that can address maybe the broader needs that for communities that didn't have storm water standards or didn't develop with uh adequate stormwater infrastructure that there's a way to tackle those problems rather than kicking the can later and saying that we'll come up with the money somehow. uh and it's a fillable pocket next to where you have three developments that uh predate to the 80s that this is, you know, this isn't necessarily the most rural part of the county anymore. That, you know, you do have two major communities and the mobile home park there that are its neighbors. Um the other than that, um you know, the we're happy to answer any questions. So, we're happy staff's recommendation plus the planning commission's recommendation and if there's anything that we can do better, we're happy to. Um, and you know, we're always here to listen. Uh, you know, I I got very few calls to at the office. Um, and not shy about saying that you're welcome to call my office. Even if it's 100 people, I'll try to get back to you. But, um, it's the it's the same thing that we we all work here. We all are trying to do the right thing. And uh as much as it's uh you know maybe painful for you know folks when it comes to these big storm events you know trying trying to throw you know trying to throw out a good project because you you because is is what I don't want to happen. So if there's any questions or we're listening to feedback we're happy to address them but u we'll be available.

Thank you. Don't go too far. Okay. All right. Catherine, are you sure? I I promise I won't make you sit back down.

My apologies for that. Welcome. Good evening, Commissioner Katherine Pante, Slope Growth Valuchia. I'm here tonight to speak in opposition to the proposed vintage acres development. The builder has annexed approximately 56 acres from Valuchia County into city of Port Orange, effectively bypassing the Samsula local pan. The plan was created to preserve the lowdensity rural and agricultural character of Samsula, a community with deep historic roots and a distinctive way of life. If a rural boundary charter amendment were in place, residents would have a greater voice in determining what lands are annexed and how our communities grow. Across Port Orange and throughout Valuchia County, we've seen the harmful consequences of overdevelopment, particularly increased flooding that threatens homes, roads, and public health. Despite these ongoing issues, new highdensity projects continue to be approved, compounding the risks. As a commission, you have both the authority and responsibility to protect public safety, health, and welfare. You're not obligated to approve developments that endanger residents or underlying community plans. It is time for the city of Port Orange to take a stand to prioritize its citizens over developers and ensure growth happens responsibly, substantially, and safely. Adding yet another development when existing residents have flooded multiple times is not ensuring growth is happening responsibly and safely. Part of the solution is not creating or adding to the existing flooding by building another subdivisions. Is Pum's homes willing to carry a bond in the event people flood yet again from another development? Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you,

Mike Pennet. Mike, that one. Thank you, sir. You're welcome. And it'll be followed by uh David Gaul. Welcome,

Mr. Mayor, city manager, commission members, staff, visitors, thank you for listening to me today. So, this piece of property was in the Samsula overlay zone, as capital said, where we had a lot of restrictions so that it would maintain its rural presentation. That pasture land holds 1.5 million gallons of storm water per acre. Do the math, and that's from the St. John's Magical Water District. Do the math. That's 84 million gallons of storm water that that property holds over a 5 in rain over one or two days. Now, we had about four or five inches of rain beginning of September, didn't we? We had many roads, many properties flooded in the city of Port Orange. Those properties were flooded directly as a result of projects that this commission approved listening to your staff, listening to the developer, listening to their attorneys and their engineers saying they would not flood adjacent properties. I'm a victim of that. The Westport subdivision on town's west has flooded my property and multiple neighbors properties multiple times over the past several years, including Ian Milton and just this ring we had at the beginning of September to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage. I think you've all been notified of that, especially recently from uh a law firm. So, we're going to make sure that, and by the way, did we get the flood bond that we were promised zoning and planning when this came up for approval? Because we were told there would be a flood bond on this property to protect the neighbors. Did that come to fruition, staff? Did that happen? Did we get a number? Did we get a year? I'm not sure. I didn't hear that. I haven't seen it in the presentation. Haven't seen it in the paperwork. But those are some of the things that we're told when we came here for zoning and planning and sat for 3 hours and we asked for a flood bond. Not sure that ever happened. We listened to the attorney saying and the engineers saying they're going to hold all that storm water. They're not going to hold

84 million gallons of storm water in those detention ponds during a major rain event. It's going to flood out, flood neighbors. It's going to flood into the into Spruce Creek, a protected waterway the way other properties do because we don't look at all of our development in congregate. We look at them individually. We just say, "Well, here's development. Let's prove it and let's get it done." You don't understand what all this does cumulatively across the neighborhoods and communities. It floods because we haven't cleared these waterways. We're using mosquito control ditches that have been around for 60 years that haven't been improved to now contain or flow all that tail water that accumulates and runs off of the fill and build that we continue to approve. They're going to add about 9 ft of fill onto this property. That water's got to go somewhere. It's going to go into those ponds and out into the neighborhoods. Thanks for listening. We need to understand what we're doing overall.

Thank you, David G. And after Mr. G will be Sue Larkin.

Hi, I'm David G. I live in Spruce Creek Flyin. I live in a PIS home. Thank you very much. I'm concerned that Mr. Pis is now going to flood my home. Thank you very much. I would like to contest some of the things that the lawyer said a minute ago. I I think it's um kind of specious to claim that Spruce Creek Flyin is three units per acre. You can look at the drawing on the map and see that the houses to the north side of that beautiful PowerPoint presentation actually have larger lots than are proposed here tonight. And if these are two units per acre, I can't imagine that we've squeezed more houses into bigger lots just north of that. So, I would contest that characterization of three units per acre at Spruce Creek Flying. Um, I've got a few notes here, but I don't have time to cover it all, and I'm very nervous. I apologize. Um, I'm reminded of a story when I hear this 25% reduction in drainage from a a piece of pasture land, which, by the way, I drove out there on Sunday. It hasn't rained there very much, and on Sunday, the west side of that pasture land was still underwater. So, as far as it not being a wetland, that's why everybody in the audience laughed because it's underwater right now and it hasn't had significant rain for the last several months. We haven't had a hurricane this season, nothing. And yet that pasture land is underwater today. And I would also like to point out that you have one person, one person entity, a corporation in a room full of hundreds of people who are here and virtually here who are protesting this. And I would like to have 12 minutes in a PowerPoint presentation, but I don't have that luxury. So I'm going to get to the point. 25% reduction in drainage. A hundred years ago, traveling salesmen went around the Midwest selling

refrigerators before the rural electrifi electrification program. They used gas. A farmer watched a man put in a refrigerator one time and he said, "You're going to have to convince me how you can build a fire under a box and make it cold inside." 25% reduction in storm water drainage is a magic miracle that will not happen. You have not reinvented the refrigerator. And saying that you're going to preserve the existing trees is very specious since there's only about six trees on the lot today. The only way you're going to increase the amount of water leaving that piece of property, whether you build on it or not, is to put a lot more trees on it, not water retention ponds. I see that I'm out of time, so I'll stop now. But I have much more. You're welcome to call me also, just as you're welcome to call the proponent's lawyer. My phone number is on record. Thank you.

Thank you, Sue Lin. And then after Miss Larkin will be Adam Dovy. Welcome.

Welcome. Thank you. Well, thank you for allowing me to speak. I'm uh Sue Larkin. I live on Whisper Woodway. I'm also in the flyin. I'm not against development, but I am against harming the existing area surrounding proposed developments. What's happening here with vintage acres is disturbing. The city council may not be aware or may not have been aware, but what's happening is unacceptable. The existence of the Samsula local plan, which was an agreement with Valuchia County to maintain the rural and agricultural nature of this property, was completely negated by the voluntary annexation which was requested by the attorney and the and the builder. There are approximately a dozen local plans in Valuchia County, all of which are designed to preserve and protect the nature of each area. Protect those areas from overdevelopment and from flooding the neighboring properties by allowing the annexation and the and then development of this property. All of that goes away. It's fair game. As I said, I don't know if the city council was aware, but apparently the attorney for the builder as well as the builder was aware because there were prior deals on this land that fell through because of the Samsula local plan. They were aware. The way that this was accomplished appears to be sneaky and without integrity. The results are going to be flooding. A lot of homes in the area that have never flooded are going to flood. That whole 56 acres is a giant sponge and it turns into a giant lake. And any one of us have a dozen pictures of cows out there up to their bellies in water, not just during hurricanes, but during big storms. Uh, additionally, Pis built the homes on Springwater Lane, which is just directly

north of this. So, as much as he doesn't want to flood his own homes, that is exactly what's going to happen. So, um, thank you for letting me speak tonight and I hope you give this great consideration. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. And and then uh Paul Holmes, welcome. How you guys doing? Um, mayor, council members, council, and Mr. manager, sir manager. I don't know how it works. That's fine. You covered it all.

I uh my name is Adam Dovy. I was born and raised here. Actually born in Quiet Place behind uh the said project. Um back in the 70s. So, a little bit of context on on this city. I remember when they built this building. It was pretty cool. Um I love this town. I was born here, raised my family here, raising my family here. Uh my business is here. Um Penny's fantastic. I've dealt with her for years. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this stuff. We've looked over the over the dollar to pick up the dime for three decades now, two decades, give or take. Um, I follow a lot of this stuff on what we develop. Daytona's has set a very good example of what not to do by our development and has caused their uh amateur hour policies to flood down the Nova Canal and then show up in our backyard. Um, there's a lot of stuff about what it's going to happen. A lot of people here smarter than me. All I can do is speak to what I see, common sense, what I've lived. And it's a little ridiculous. I will say we've got good luries in this room. The whole two houses per acre. It's a little slimy cuz it's not. It's two houses per total. So, I'm assuming per developed acre, we're going to be maybe 0.2 two or 0.19 um acres per house. It's a different picture. The gentleman was up here before me kind of alluded to that. Didn't know exactly how to phrase it, but it is the I don't like Miami. I don't understand why we're taking such an amazing town of where I used to dirt bike and and four-wheel and turn it into what everybody's trying to escape. Um I followed I I live now in uh off of uh near Meline. the decisions we made in the past couple years on Meline, not my uh not my idea of a good decision, but all the water flowing down there, all the traffic issues, all the problems

that we can easily avert by just taking a step back and seeing where we stand versus where we're going. Um, I do windows and doors. I'm in construction and I'm against this. Um, Cypress Head, Wat's Edge, something that's relevant, close. I walk those houses all the time. They're flooded in between every house. It's not a surprise. And those aren't zero lot lines. And I misspoke earlier. I said this was going to be zero lot line. It's not. But if those developments that were done right are flooded for the past 30 years, how is something that looks exactly like it going to be any different? But I'm running out of time. I have to get home and protect my four-year-old, my nine-year-old in bed. And I hope that in 30 years they can enjoy the city like I got to enjoy the city, not just another metropolitan housing dump or concrete jungle. So thank you very much.

Thank you Paul Holmes. Come on. Welcome. And uh after Paul will be Denisha Stevens maybe. Sterns. Sorry.

Hi. Um, my name is Paul Holmes. Uh, I live in Spruce Creek. Uh, first of all, I'd like to give a hats off to the police of uh, Port Orange here. I think they do an excellent job. We really appreciate them where we live and hats off to them and thank you very much. Um, I'm going to start with just kind of facts. There'll be a lot of people talking about how bad this is. I'm I'm just going to tell you a direction that this community is going that I hate to see, but it's going in that direction. So, at the planning committee, uh, the planning commission meeting on September 25th last month, Jim Pis said, and I'm quoting exactly, I'm fighting the battle of trying to get some lots inventory. That's what he's doing, folks. Uh, he's right. He got that right. This is both a fight and a battle. Uh, and fortunately for those citizens behind me in red, it's a really wellunded battle. Uh we have received those people behind us have received $36,000 put in actual accounts to fight this this week. And they're going to start off with just simple stuff. Here we have uh lawn signs. These cost these cost 87. Uh guess how much a bumper sticker cost? 67. We're earmarking $36,000 for lawn signs and bumper stickers. Uh there's only 27,000 homes in the community. We can easily get one on each home. Um then after that, uh there'll be social media posts. You guys kind of pushed us back on our heels on this. We didn't know this was coming. It was We feel it was a little bit sneaky the way you annexed that in there. I know it's legal, but it doesn't feel good on our side. Believe me, when it's one time it's a a cow pasture and the next minute all the rules change in one fell swoop,

one meeting, it's not right. So, there'll be YouTube videos. We'll be filming all of the people that have lost things in Valuchia County. This is a countywide issue. People love to talk about this. It's all coming up. We've got thousands and thousands of dollars to make these YouTube uh and these are real people behind me. All of them have a story and we're going to get it out. Uh then there'll be an advertising blitz. We have $100,000 earmarked through private monies and I know personally for a fact that Spruce Creek Flyin has got 250,000 earmarked against this development. Then there'll be picketing. The picketing is going to come at PIS offices. Of course, where else would we go? Anyway, I just want to say Jim, you the choice is yours. Please stop this. Please don't go down this path. It's very decisive for our community. Uh we don't like it and I don't think you're going to like the end. I think it's going to be your Bud Light moment. I'm sorry about that.

Welcome. After Denanisha will be Meredith Cassandra. Go. Welcome. Go ahead.

Um hello. Hello, my name is Denanishia Sterns. I live at 3705 Lacy Lane and that is in the Samsula Estates mobile home park area. So, I wanted to talk about um the most obvious problem that um we people have seem to have about um the Spintage Acres and that is the flooding issue. Uh, I know that um that Penny spoke and the engineer um and the attorney all have said that there would be um ne like a no net loss and and no net increase in flooding and in in flow and in volume um and in fact a 25% reduction and that would be awesome if that happened. That would be awesome for our community and the other communities. But um let me tell you what happened in Ian. Okay. Hurricane Ian came and um now we did not evacuate. My husband and I live um on the corner of Russell Road, which you know, which runs adjacent to the back of Vintage Acres. Uh and so we saw at least a foot of water, a river that came from Water's Edge across the Ventage Plat uh and into our neighborhood. Okay. And we live, according to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, we live on the highest elevation in our neighborhood at 20 to 21 feet. Okay? And we have neighbors that as you go towards the creek, they live much lower. So their damage was worse. Okay? So this was is my suggestion and my hope is that um as uh this project is going forward and being considered by you that um that the you would ask the engineer and even insist that um that the engineer use the predictive software that he used to get that negative 25% flow in volume and uh and first and redo it. Um, first adding about a foot of

water that's flowing like a river on top of vintage acres and then uh and then add the 20 other inches of rain or 10 inches even, you know, as a as a not a a 100year event, but maybe a 50-year event and see what uh the data bears out. And if it bears out that you're still getting, you know, 25% 0% um net loss, then then great. But insist on those facts and those figures and um and then we'll be talking more about reality of, you know, of what we experienced during Ian, during Milton, during Nicole in the flooding. So, thank you very much. Thank you,

Dr. Meredith. We'll have uh Victor Lopez. Hi, welcome.

Thank you. Meredith Cassandra. I live um at 1849 Spruce Creek Boulevard. Um I moved here to get away to get away from exactly what Port Orange in Valuia County is becoming, a concrete jungle. I worked very hard and was fortunate enough to be able to buy my dream home in my dream community just last year. This is my forever home. I finally found the place where I belong and I plan on passing it down to my daughter. Spruce Creek. Um, but I live on Spruce Creek and if this development is built, I and so many other homes along the creek and homes not on the creek will absolutely flood and every and continue to flood every time a hurricane or even just a big rain event comes through. I won't be able to afford to rebuild and clean up every time this happens. We have all witnessed the flooding that all the new development you approved is causing. If you don't stop the overdevelopment and instead focus on figuring out a way to deal with the flooding mess that has already been created, this city will become unlivable. Do you really want to be known as a member of the city council that failed its residents? I attended the planning commission meeting where the commission sat here and listened to so many people voice their serious concerns. One member of the commission told us that they joined the commission to stop development and then voted yes. I left that meeting feeling really sad. I don't understand why you continue develop to develop at this rate after seeing the devastation that it has already caused. When is enough enough? Why are you not considering all of the residents in the area surrounding this land? You have people who have lived there for years who whose entire lives and everything they have worked so hard for will be destroyed. Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome. Mr. Lopez will be Susie Holmes.

Paul Victor Lopez. I live on Springwater Lane right across from this uh development proposed. Um, you heard the laughter when uh people said this isn't wet area. Oh, yes it is. This is part of the surge area on Valuchia County's map for Spruce Creek. When Spruce Creek overflows, it floods right into this area. It gets two, three, four, 5t high, thousand ft wide. It's flooded now, right across from my house. You're building on it, that water is still going to have to go someplace. The surge area from Spruce Creek is going to have to go someplace. what they say they're going to discharge. That isn't going to happen because Spruce Creek going to back them right up. Uh what bothers me also is that they couldn't get this through Valuchia County. Now, we recently took the commission from Valuchia County on a tour through Spruce Creek. We showed them how high the water is. I think it was 10 or 12 feet over the Le Bridge alone. This is only going to exacerbate this problem. uh you know, you were elected by the people of Port Orange to serve the people. These people, especially the ones in the trailer parks, they're going to be the worst. They're going to flood the fastest and they're going to flood the highest. We'll survive a little bit more. Maybe we can get flood insurance, bond insurance, whatever. But God, I moved out of New York 40 years ago to come to Florida so I wouldn't have to sit in an asphalt jungle. Now he's taking 56 acres and he's telling you, "Oh yeah, it's two per acre." Well, guess what? He's putting it all on 10. The other 40 acres is off to the side. It's used for different areas. He's building it like Queens, New York. So, I would say to you, put this off. One more meeting. Come take a look at Spruce Peak. We'll show you where the watermarks are. We'll show you the property. Walk it with me and see what they want to do. Then come back and make your decision. You can't tell from all these things that you're looking at on

paper. Please, the people elected you. Vote for the people. Thank you. [Applause]

Susie Holmes and then Gary Singleton. Welcome. Thank you. I'm Susie Holmes. I live in Valuchia County, Spruce Creek Flying. I want to thank you for allowing me to speak about the Vintage Acres development. First want to address what the attorney said, which there were many comments about how great this project was, but particularly I want to say he says this project checks all of the boxes. Those are the boxes for Port Orange. Just last June, those boxes to be checked were one home per acre in in the Samsula area. So checking all of the boxes are what somehow it was finagled into Port Orange. And those are the new boxes. Those aren't the boxes that we're looking for to be checked. We're looking for the Samsula boxes. That's what needs to be done. Next, I'd like to say to Jim Pis to plea to you directly, you've been on your phone most of the time or laughing with the guy sitting next to you while people are talking, which I think is really disrespectful.

You have to address the council.

Okay. The PIS family has built beautiful homes and developed beautiful communities throughout our area. At the last planning meeting, Jim said to the commission himself that he would just wanted to be a home builder. He said that it was hard for him to find lots to build on, so he had to become a developer. It sounded to me like he meant our area is out of land to build on. I have two suggestions or requests for developers going forward to help with drainage or flooding. build vintage acres with the correct zoning that existed only a few months ago before it was changed to Port Orange zoning, which was one house per 10 acres. These could be beautiful homes with beautiful big lots. By building vintage acres with the previous zoning of 10 acre lots, we would secure Samsula's royal plan and have no negative impact on flooding Samsula and the surrounding neighborhoods. My other suggestion to be for people who want to be homebuilders is to find more lots to build on that could be re that could redevelop dilapitated communities. Like Lori Becker said, build back better. There are plenty of tear down homes in our area. So, please look at rebuilding areas with dilapitated homes that would also increase the community's tax base and help with flooding and drainage problems. These homes already have utilities and dense res residential zoning. Therefore, the new homes would not contribute to the drainage and flooding issues that our county faces. Please consider the suggestions to keep the PIS brand respected in our community. Build on bigger lots and start a beautifification initiative to tear down homes and rebuild them on the

lots. In my opinion, it would secure the family's legacy. Thank you. After Mr. Singleton, we'll have Jan Albert.

My name is Gary Singleton. You speak of rights and rules and laws, but there are are greater rights and rules and laws. And one of those is whatever you do to the part, you do to the whole. Everything is connected. vintage acres will have its harmful effects on the entire Spruce Creek basin. As you narrowly focus on the ensuring on ensuring that all of the rules are being followed, you refuse to acknowledge how this one project will affect the entire basin as well as its every one of its tributaries. You'll be satisfied with retention systems that the state presumes to be adequate. Even as these types of systems are failing all over Valuchia County, storm water does not recognize municipal boundaries. The flood waters produced inside the city of Port Orange will not be confined to your citizens. We are doing all we can to make you aware of the fact that Spruce Creek Basin simply can't handle any additional stress from overwhelming runoff. By the time you realize what you've done, it will be too late. Too late for those who will have lost everything to the greater rights, rules, and laws you choose to ignore. Thank you, Dan Albert. Good evening, council members. Uh, my name is Jan Albert and I live in an quiet place in the country on Country Circle East on the creek, but I have been a appraisal institute appraiser and hydraologist for 53 years. And I want to discuss the storm management standards regarding this division. Now, normally you would say that a PUB would be

superior, but in this case it isn't because those 60 by 100 ft lots, you're going to concentrate the whole 113 in a small clump, which the idea behind it is to save trees and other things and have ponds. But the trouble is that those figures that were given are just impossible. I have 18,000 days of data. That's over 50 years of keeping records 300 ft to the west of this property, which is my property. And I know every day how much rain we've had. And as a hydraologist, I know that we average around 6 to 7 5 in rains. So that would be about 125 million gallons. And those retention ponds, while great, they're they're 2 in from the water table because that site, as Denisha mentioned, it's 18 ft elevation. And so it'd be like taking a glass of water. If you have a a an 8 oz glass of water and you have 6 ounces in it and you try to put another 8 ounces in there, you're not getting it in. 2 ounces will go in, the rest is going out. So to say that you're going to keep it to 25%, that's impossible. And the problem is that this storm runoff going to the creek, which already has five hurricanes worth of silt at all the meander points, has not cleared, will be breaking. House Bill 503 and state and federal laws. So, it's got to be drawn a different way. Thank you.

Thank you. [Applause] There's anybody else who didn't get a chance to fill out a card that had something else they wanted to offer. Robert, come on up. I'm not sure I'm allowed to let you speak with an orange shirt on. Go ahead.

Mayor, council members, Robert Reinhagen, 1425, Dexter Drive, Port Orange. Um my comment is that you know I spoke against this at the annexation and I went through that data packet the agenda packet really thoroughly and I try to do that every time go go through this packet and this agreement that I just heard about tonight about the Sam Sula agreement that would have put restrictions on that property um that's comes as a total surprise and I don't know why the staff would not have put that into the data packet. Uh because that would that's critical information to know about restrictions on the use of this property.

Uh so I would like to say again uh do not do this. Turn it down. Thank you. Thank you Robert.

Is there anybody else? All right. back to back to council. Um, Mr. City Manager, anything from any of the comments or any of the information to that you need to correct and set straight on that? I I think when you get the applicant back, they should address the bond issue. I think it's more related to maintenance of the facilities, but let them clarify that. And then you probably want them to have their engineer address some of the questions about how the storm water facilities work. Those were the two items I picked up. All right. And we'll do that. Let's uh we'll touch base with council here first. Lance, we're going to start with you. No, I got nothing right now. I want to continue to listen. Okay, Sean, I have nothing. Tracy,

uh what Wayne was talking about on the bond and all we'll get to that when it comes up here. Okay. And you want to come back up?

Good evening again. Joey Posey, 420 South Nova, uh attorney for the applicant. Um the the bond language is in the PD. We agreed to that. uh we are happy to do it. Uh we're confident in the storm water system. It you know repairs maintenance obligations for a perpetual bond in in the agreement itself is outlined for a 30-year period that we're required to do it. Again, not aware of any project that makes that commitment in a PD, but uh that's posted online. It's publicly available. Uh but that is the commitment we made and that was the representation made at planning board. So that is in our agreement.

Specify what? Yeah, I think you can clarify because because I think there were people that think you're putting up a bond to protect them if they flood offsite. This is to maintain the storm water facilities on your property. That is correct.

In the event the HOA doesn't exist anymore to maintain them. Correct. That is correct. Because we would be that would be the contributing factor that would create the issue that it's the maintenance of our storm water facilities and to ensure they're maintained. Uh and again the discussion that was at planning board or planning commission was around what happens in 10 years 20 years those discussions that how do you how do you ensure that your systems functioning that was the commitment we were making and that's the commitment we put in writing. Um the other points I wanted to quickly touch on and I'm happy to get the engineer up to talk to specifics. Um, again, we're we're talking about in the agreement and outlined commitment that it's a 25% reduction on the 25-year 24h hour and the 100redyear 24hour. It's not the existing condition. The existing condition is is you have no storm water maintenance or storm water control. So, the water goes where it goes. Uh, you know, that's I think important clarification that was lost in the discussion. Uh, and as to the trees, the specimen trees, the big trees, the trees that are the ones that you want to preserve, that want to again, as folks would that I hear a lot of that they want to keep there to be those anchors that absorb the water and those those type of things. Those are staying. None of them are being removed. And there's, if I remember, it was 41 or 43, I can't remember off hand off the top of my head, but but there's 43 of them that they're not going anywhere. Uh, and the other thing too is there's not a wetland. This this isn't a wetland. It's a farm. I I I understand that that may be hard to you accept that it's a farm. It's not a wetland. Uh, it's not jurisdictional in any way. That that's the reality of what this piece of property is. And um the other thing too that I wanted to mention is that the a little bit of the discussion is around this idea that lots is equating to uh storm water. Uh to a degree that's

understandable, but really what controls storm water is your system that you know how do you design it? How do you design what standard do you design it to? That's that's the part that it see is lost in this discussion that you know the lot sizes are indicative of the storm water what what storm water event we're we're designing to and that that isn't true that this system is being designed to accommodate a storm water event or a major uh major event a system that doesn't exist in the city that that's the commitment. it's not relative necessarily to the lot count that if you take lots off that somehow the design of the system is better. So I I just want them I want to make that clear. So other than that uh I I I'll defer to the engineer to really walk through the specifics for everybody. Uh and if there's any specific questions I am happy to answer them. I want to go back to the trees that you say are staying on there because when you look at this lot, those are all the trees along the south side running along the road and then there's a ditch between those trees and the actual road

to our Yes. to our That's correct. Right. And then when you make a right-hand turn and head back north, there's a ditch between this lot and that street and there's some trees that sit along there. Those are the specimen trees you're talking about leaving. And there's some to the front, too. Okay. Thank you.

We'll let the engineer come up. Welcome. Good evening. Harry Newkerk, Newkerk Engineering, 12:30 North US Highway 1, Orman Beach. I've been doing this for for quite a long time. 20 uh 24 years. Um when it first started out, storm water was designed like the flyins. That was the system. That's what we did 20 23 years ago, 24 years ago. And since then, the storm water rules through the state of Florida, St. John's River, W districts changed about 10 times. And in this area, there's in this specific area where we're doing this project, there's not one project designed for the new rules. What you got to do now, and these new rules are put in place to require you to get rid of just doing a wet detention pond system. Wet detention pond systems flow out. They have a lot of uh controlled flow off the site that doesn't remove nutrients. So the state of Florida changed these rules to add a best management practices. You got to do a call it call it a treatment train multiple disciplines of storm water to reduce off-site storm water. There's no way to get around it. It's very difficult to get to work. It uh usually has about four submitts four or five over five submitts to St. to get it to get approved on one of these projects nowadays.

So, and at the same time, this will be reviewed by the city. It's going to be reviewed by Valuchia County. It's going to be reviewed by St. John's. It's going to be reviewed by Army Corps at with the new state rules. The system to make these new rules work. Yes, you have to fill a site because nowadays you wouldn't build a site at the existing grade or you would probably have sto flooding problems, right? So everything comes up. That's I'm just saying you don't build at existing rate. You build up just like you see DOT building all their roads up, all their bridges are up. People are building for the future. And when you're building for the future using these new rules in place, so you have to have roughly 30% of your site in storm water. When I first started, we were doing 10%. Then it went to 15, then 20. Now it's at 30% of your site has to be storm water to even have a conversation of it working. But sometimes you go underneath the pavement and stuff. You see that on commercial properties. We're not doing that here because it's residential. You don't do that in residential developments. So we have 30% of the site and at the same time we put additional criteria to reduce the rate runoff rate volume into these ditches that go to Spruce Creek by 25%. When we do that we're going to put less water into those ditches. And when we do that, the flood stage of those dishes ditches goes down and those some of those properties that say they're experiencing flooding, they flood stages will drop down because they'll be able to get into the off-site ditches through Spruce Creek quicker. That's the idea of adding all this storm water to the site. And the way it works is it goes from the houses, the houses will sheet flow in the back to dry retention ponds. The front will go to roads. The roads will

have pipes they convey to the to the uh dry retention ponds. Driver retention ponds are first flush pre-treatment. They call it pre-treatment. And why it's good to do dry retention is because you get infiltration. You get storm water removal that does not go into the next system which is the wet detention pond. So your five inches of rain, this site's not going to even discharge in five inches of rain. Not not from the development when you have to do this additional 25%. just not going to happen. So, we're going to be doing dry, then it overflows and goes into the wet. The wet systems are designed 150%. Larger than what the city requires right now. So, you got that additional volume in there that will hold them back and then we can discharge it into the ditch. At the same time, we'll have toal zones and other measures in there that's going to be required for us to remove what it 90 98 99% of the nutrients. And when we talk nutrients, you're looking at 90% phosphorus because they're worried about Spruce Creek to the river to the bays protecting the environment. So that's and when you hear that, a lot of people go, "We don't care about nutrients." You care about nutrients because it makes the storm water system bigger. And when you make the storm water system bigger, you're enhancing the off-site flows. Everybody and every meeting I go to, it's all about storm water. Now, it used to be traffic. Traffic was hot. 10 years ago is all about traffic. And you've been on these boards long enough, you know it was traffic. Now it's storm water. And it's rightfully so. But we I believe and I know that we're the first in the area to add on top of the state standards. The state standards are not easy to deal with. We're adding the 25% rate and volume reduction even more above those

standards. So we know that when we discharge off this property, we're going to be a benefit to these ditches, thus helping the surrounding neighborhoods. Any questions? Hang on. Yes, sir. Any questions for the engineer trace? Lance. No. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Mr. Pis. Did you want to speak? You don't have to. Just All right. There you go.

Jim Pis. Um, right here at 908 Taylor Road. Um, I did make a couple other commitments. Uh, a neighbor here. I've, you know, talked to all the neighbors around there, or not all of them, but the ones that in front that are being affected by this. I know there's some to the south that we're we're talking about tonight. Um, but I did make some commitments there um to create privacy around the around the perimeter with the walking path for him and also um offer to be able to connect to utilities there if that's in his best interest as well as blocking some, you know, headlights that pull in. So, I want to make that known here as well. Um, all the other stuff you I'm just not gonna let it get to me. I know what it's like. I do the best I can. I know that. Thank you very much.

All right. Thanks. Penny, can you come back up? I'm going to come back to to council here, so I figured you might be you might as well be close at hand. Mhm. So, can you talk a little bit about that that regional area, not specifically to this property, but regionally in the topography of the area with regard to the Spruce Creek Basin? What h how much of that regional area is actually all going to that Spruce Creek basin area roughly? I mean, I'm not trying to say exact. Yeah, that that's not my specialization, sir. All right.

But that's what we have a team of engineers that analyze. And I just want to reiterate that tonight we're here for land use and zoning. So we don't have detailed storm water engineering or anything that anyone's reviewed. Right now we're looking at

land use and zoning and devel legal development regulations in a legal master development agreement. basically their own mini mini land development code that they are going to have to be held to if approved when they do come in with engineered plans. And so right now what we've what staff has analyzed and looked at is the rules the rules that they'll have to play by when they come when they come in for future development if approved. And so that that's what's being analyzed is that they they're basically following the code and exceeding the code in the certain areas that were outlined. So that's what's being presented tonight are the rules.

And I apologize. I don't mean to put you on the put you on the spot conceptually. There's there's a lot in this broader discussion and and city manager, you're welcome to jump in. So there so I I guess what um one of the the ideas or thoughts that that keeps coming to mind is as we discuss land use, future land use, and how that will go hand inand with what is the area capable of of handling and what are those problems. Now, I know that the county has has implemented a Spruce Creek Basin study. Isn't this property in that geographical area that's impacted by and would be impacted by that study?

Yes. And so all and all that would be analyzed in that storm water analysis. If the land use and zoning is approved and it were to come forward with subdivision plans, that detailed storm water analysis, all that would be taken into consideration at that time. Okay, Tracy, we'll start with you.

I really probably go uh first with the the flood bond, wrapping my head around that one. Uh flood bond, what you're saying is it is to maintain the retention and the ponds for the next 30 years is what that bond is for. What does it do if retention and pond lets loose and causes catastrophic down river? I think I think it may be better character characterized as a maintenance bond. You know, that's really I think the flood bond's probably a misnomer. Okay. So, it's a maintenance bond. It doesn't do anything if something fails.

Well, that's but the point of it is to ensure that it doesn't fail. That that's that's the goal. And if you're doing the appropriate maintenance and you have somebody out there that one has a commitment from a bond side that has a city commitment that has an HOA commitment doing it the right way. That's that's the way to handle it. Um and it there should be no failure. That's that's the point of that assurance.

Let me take a stab at this because you may not be aware to some of the discussions that we've had up here in the last few months. So, one of the things that we have noticed in our city is that people communities have a tendency to move into areas that have an HOA where common areas and ponds and ditches and stuff are being maintained and then a day comes and residents decide they don't want to have an HOA anymore. So, now those things are no longer being maintained, right? They don't belong to the city. They belong incrementally to the residents in that area. And I think is that is that what we're we're talking about is something that kind of protects that that if you were to build all these homes and then in five years when the HOA is relinquished over to the actual homeowners, they say we don't want to have an HOA anymore and and now who's maintaining all those those storm water assets? I think that's what we're trying to make sure we're understand. I see a lot of head nodding. I'll let you matt what your understanding is here. Yeah, you're gonna this bond guarantees 30 years of proper maintenance of that storm water facility that ends up getting permitted.

Okay. And and it gives the city an enforcement right to that too. So even if in the worst case scenario, there's collapse in the HOA, the city as an enforcement mechanism is not out of pocket that they can enforce that right, which is not which is exactly the issue you run into in these other communities. There's there's a back and forth of who's paying and well, we we've taken that out of the equation. Okay. Uh Penny, uh these are going to be directed to you. So I know you I know you got this. You said in their roadway LOS. Talk to me. What is an LOS? Level service standard. So it's all all public facilities have a level of service standard. All right.

And so that's what in the comprehensive plan staff report, there was a table and then some paragraphs after it that that did the the mandatory analysis at that theoretical max. So as of right now the roadway out there will hold a a capacity and it's meeting that capacity if we correct put that in.

Yes. The only there was one segment that showed with existing reservations in other areas there being a potential issue um that will get reanalyzed at actual development plan stage. And at that point, if that's still an if that's an issue there, then that's when um the concurrency review, the adequate public facility review comes into play where we can't approve their actual development plans, their subdivision plant plans, unless there's either a physical improvement that's part of it to address it or a mitigation option to address it.

Okay. And I know last time you talked about it and I just want to make sure this is still on record. um dealing with police and fire. We did a comprehensive study to make sure that EMS nothing is impeded with higher density of population. Correct. They so they were part of the annexation review where we did that initial impact analysis um and and their capacity was there. Their service capacity everything met the requirements. They're also part of all these reviews as well. And they will be they will also be part of the development review. If this gets approved and it moved forward to subdivision platin plans, they would be part of that design review as well. Okay. I know we can't you can't speak for it, but did y'all do a review as far as school capacities?

Yes, it's required. We cannot move forward to any public hearings without approval from the Blush County School District. So, that certification is an exhibit in your comprehensive plan in your zoning packet. Okay. And they will also have to give us another approval at the development phase when it comes forward to subdivision plant plans. This is at this phase they have a reservation approval and then at the next phase they have a concurrency certificate approval. That's it for now. That's it. Sure. I have nothing for the staff for the order. Staff comments, questions. Right now is the time.

So, um I appreciate everybody coming in and expressing their concerns. Uh, it's not the first time residents in Port Orange have come into these council chambers and talked about developments that were going to be developed um, and their concerns about flooding. Your development when it started happening, you probably had people in here going, "What are you doing building homes out there around that airport?" because that airport's been there a long time and the developer built those homes and you moved into them and you love them and you want to protect them and I get that. When W's Edge got developed, does anyone remember what it was prior to that development?

Correct. How many trees did it have on it? Lots. None. It was It was It was flat. It had no trees.

It had cypress heads on it. Correct. And and it has cypress heads on it now. And it has a hell of a lot more trees on it than it ever did before. So we hear a lot about developers coming in and and wiping the land clear and then building on it. This land's clear. This developer is going to add some homes and he's going to add over 400 something trees that we need in this city. And like those developments that are across the street to the to the east at W's Edge, Cypress Head, Sable Creek, Pinnacle Park, Ashton Lakes, all those wonderful places where people love to live. All 65,000 of us in this city love Port Orange are because developers had the foresight to say, "Hey, I want to build something special out there." And a lot of those neighborhoods are very special. Now, there's a lot of neighborhoods in this area that are not uh Towns West Boulevard. Not my I'm not a fan of it. Dr. Horton, National Builder. Jones, National Builder. Paid his homes. I've lived in his houses. I've lived in his neighborhoods. Good stuff. And we have a gentleman wanting to commit to this community to provide homes like you live in right now. And you want to shut the door on that. And I just don't think that's fair. And a gentleman talked about South Florida. Oh, I grew up in South Florida and I watched them go all the way to the Everglades and now they're coming back and they're buying up and they're doing redevelopment. They're taking small homes on a couple acres and they're putting 11 units in there. I will never approve something like that. I might do a redevelopment down in Ridgewood, but not out here. This makes sense. This is exactly what you live in right now. And yeah, that that flooding that happens on that right now, that that pasture that gets that water, it goes

wherever it wants to because there's nothing containing it. There's nothing controlling it. And it probably didn't flood as much when your neighborhood was a vacant lot. So the difference between the development of Spruce Creek and the development of W's Edge and the development of everything east of 95 is that the state has stepped in and said there's requirements that we have to meet. And this builder is going above and beyond that. And and we've sat through several meetings this year where people have talked about their house flooding in the last two years. And several of those residents have lived in those houses for 45 years and had never flooded before. Well, why is that? The homes have been there in that neighborhood. The fact is is that in the last 2 years, what amount of rain have we had fallen in a short period of time? Not there's not a standard in the state of Florida that says you have to meet that requirement because it was a natural disaster. And that's why those homes flooded. A couple weeks ago, we had a gentleman sit up here and and and I'm like, I want facts to be out there. A gentleman came up tonight and said that we had several homes flood in Port Orange early this month or September when we had a Sunday afternoon thunderstorm that rained 4.9 in of rain in 2 and 1/2 hours. Half of what we received in August. The streets were flooded. That's where the water was supposed to be. That's where it's designed to be. We had a house flood in Port Orange, Sleepy Hollow, from the back of their yard, not from the street. That's the fact. So when you come up, bring the facts. I want to hear the facts. I know the facts. I'm watching this. We had a subdivision just built behind Sugar Mill Elementary. The night

that it rained that hard, that's the first place I went because I was concerned about Sixth Street. No sitting water. 30 plus inlets in that subdivision handled all that water. So that street and those homes did not flood. Same amount of water fell. So the newer developments are preventing flooding. And the older developments when you get 22 inches of rain, there's not a darn thing we can do about it. and we're going to spend millions and millions of dollars east of 95 to help prevent that with no guarantee that it's going to work when we get 22 inches of rain in 24 hours. So that's what happened with Ian and Milton.

It is and and there's there's not standards in place right now to prevent that. So, um, Spruce Creek floods when the tide's too high and it pushes back in there. And it's common with every watershed that goes out to the ocean. When we have king high tides, which we did on top of a week of onshore winds out of the north, pushed all that water back into the creek. It wasn't runoff from your neighborhood into the creek that flooded. Okay. You want to see the video?

No. Let him finish. Let him finish. So what I'm what I'm saying is you had a king high tide. You had push up the river and when your water flows into it, it just exasperated it. But it was something that does not happen often. It's happened often in the last two weeks, but the facts are in a 100 years it has not. So we've had lots of rain in this town. 45 years of rain and you flood twice. That's what someone had told me. So, I'm looking at this and you know it's uh they're doing their best. I think the state makes requirements that we control the water and uh that's what I wanted to say. Lance.

Well, again, I know this is not not a popular project with anybody, but I'm I'm a numbers guy, and as a builder, I'm a numbers guy, and I I look at this development and the amount of effort that we are going to put towards retaining this water on this property. Uh, I believe it's going to benefit the neighbors by this project holding more water by design. And so, this particular project has the ability to hold and retain and before any of its discharge right now, it's just discharging into the creek or it's discharging wherever. This is this design and the numbers that I've calculated on here is is far in excess of uh of even some of the other newer neighborhoods and I firmly believe that this project will not contribute to any additional flooding beyond that's just my opinion of it.

Anything else? No.

All right. So, my uh you know I I spoke with Mr. Pis about the project and and and and what he's looking to do. You know, my my concern is there's several things. Much like a lot of us in this room, including Mr. Pis and several of us up here, we're born and raised. We've been here for a long, long time, and we've lived in this community almost all our entire lives. for whatever reason, whatever it's happening, I, you know, I believe it's just a total change in environmental conditions in our region of the country. This is not a Port Orange thing. This is a Florida thing. Unless you are living under a rock and not seeing what's happening all over the entire state of Florida, I don't know what to say about that. But the reality of it is is it's not a Port Orange thing. It's not a Valuchia County thing. This is a regional thing that they are seeing all over the state from an environmental impact. But those environmental impacts are are happening. We're watching them. We're living them. And you know, the state of Florida has land development codes and regulations as do cities and counties. And those regulations get based on historical data and to some degree what I think are assumptions, right? And you so you hear like, okay, well, you're going to have this uh plan or these rules to build a community that's going to be able to withh with withstand 10 inches of rainfall in 24 hours, right? And so then what happens? You get a storm that brings in 11 or 12 or you don't even get 10 in, but you got five or six too fast, right? Which we saw recently, right? We didn't we recently what we saw was is because we've all been up here mostly for the last couple of years working on a lot of these other projects that stem from impacts from you know Ian and

Milton and other rain events and we've been focusing on this concept of a certain amount of rain over 24 hours. Well, in your mind you start thinking, okay, well that's incrementally happening, right? So if it's a half inch of rain per hour for 24 straight, that's one thing. But then when you start seeing storm related events all over the state and including ones that recently impacted us where now you see four, five, six or seven inches of rain that fall in less than 25% of that time frame and you're like well wait a minute why are these communities flooding? They didn't get 10 inches in 24 hours. Well, but they got four and a half or five or six inches in two hours and and this the infrastructure is not designed to handle that volume that fast. That's not to point a finger at any developer or anybody because I get that at some point uh like the engineer talked about the rules are always continuing to change to try to get better and accommodate these things within within reason. You can't raise these developments 40 ft in the air, right? So th those kind of things are weighing heavily on me right now because they've been so recent. Um, you know, we talk about this concept of a 100redyear storm and a 500year storm. I have a hard time even hearing that anymore only because I'm only 55 years old and I feel like I've lived through seven or eight of these things, right? So,

but but I get what that concept really means. It really doesn't mean 100 years. It means 1% every year, right? Or half of a percent every year or whatever. The reality of it is is we're seeing more and more of these things. I mean, we are we are really transitioning into a time over the last 5 years and what seems to be now a year after year thing when we get to August, from August to November, we're watching the weather nonstop, right? And even if it's not impacting our community specifically, we're seeing it around the state. I don't know the answers to all those things. That's a lot to say that my big concern for this area of our city is what's going to come out of the Spruce Creek basin study. We have we have seen Williamson flood over three times in the last four years. albeit a couple of times for days it stayed flooded and impassible even emergency vehicles and other times for short amounts of time and that's because the outfalls on Williamson go into the Spruce Creek River. When the Spruce Creek River is rising and the outfalls are now underwater, it's pushing water back up in and and closing the road down. I've lived out in W's edge for for 21 21 years. the first 17 16 17 years out there I never saw anything like that. Now now I would have to say never had that much rain. So we haven't had storm related events during those periods of times to even test that to see what that would be like. Um the the other thing is is there are communities in this area and this is not the fault of the developer but like the Spruce Creek flyin for example which I most of you that have spoke tonight live in that neighborhood couldn't be built today the way it is today

cuz it doesn't have the storm water retention and conditions that would be required today that you you just it wouldn't happen. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. Um, you look at the other communities, whether it's Sanctuary, Cypress Head, Wat's Edge, those areas were built to different standards and have tremendous amounts of storm water retention and infrastructure and it does work. I mean, it takes an Ian to to exceed that, but that's not what they weren't built to Ian standards. they were built to much less but I would say 98 99% did well even in Ian that being said regionally in this area I'm very concerned about this spruce creek basin and and my interest and I and I mentioned to Mr. us is I would feel a lot more comfortable today had that study been done and completed for us to see because ultimately that is the the heart if you will for this area as I understand it and city manager you can correct me if I'm wrong but um that as as I understand it that is the key element to this much like we are seeing in other parts of the city where the key element might be the Nova road canal system or the recanal outfall or the Cambridge area and things like that. And so I'm I'm very concerned about that. I'd feel a lot better tonight had that study been completed and we had some kind of idea on what the capacity continues to be or what kind of projects should be underway to improve things like that in that area. So that's kind of my my you know where I'm at with that right now. Um other than that I don't have anything else. Did you have anything Mr. Unless you just on the on the basin study it it

expect to start beginning of 26 it it'll probably take a year. So by the time the stud is done it'll be Christmas of next year. Any scale of project that comes out of it's probably going to be like the same thing we're dealing with where it's likely to be two years before the projects get completed because of the the large scale. There may be some small scale improvements and things that can be done but likely the the what we're looking at is the same the same level thing. So, I think that the the short-term solutions being the challenge and possibly even some kind of program to to help individual homeowners, but just for practical reality because I want to make sure people have that expectation. These are long and slow. You're trying to undo 10 20 years of not having having had that. So, I'd likely say that study probably isn't done till the end of 26 and it may be again another 12 to 18 24 months before you see projects in that basin as a result of it.

Okay. Understood. Mr. Posie, did you have anything else that you wanted to

just quickly mention again? Joey Posey that came out of this discussion. I thought that I I did want to mention that um the uh interestingly enough, the stress test that you're talking about with the the rate of rainfall is actually something that's part of the St. John's rules currently. So, uh, in talking in terms of 4-hour intervals, that is something that actually is implemented in these storm water designs now. So, in addition to having a better system and a system that is controlling the rate and the volume and it has much more volume, you're getting that stress test that doesn't normally occur. And the mention of Williamson, interestingly enough, I'd asked the engineer, uh, FDOT doesn't do that, funny enough. So, um, that's a a little nuance that again comes out of the design when you get to the when you get to construction plans, when you get to the subdivision plans, these are the little nuances that you that um get get lost in a discussion. Um, in terms of uh trying to address concerns and moving forward, again, this there's two there's two hearings that when it comes to this and that, you know, the opportunity to listen to feedback and to try to do the best we can. Uh again, we've we we think this is a great project and we stand by it, but if there's ways to work towards trying to uh you know, work those out between first and second reading, we're happy to. That's that's not uh that's that's not something that we're shying away from on our end. But uh you know like you like I think I alluded the city manager had alluded to that you know something sometimes these things are just timing and the stud the spruce creek study as much as I'd love to have it today too you know it may be end of 26 and then um and then where do we where do we go from there but um we're we're ready to make the commitment and uh and do what we can and do do our best

by the neighbors too. So that was just a little suggestion I just wanted to throw out there and you know based on the feedback because you know we we want that opportunity too.

And and I and I I do want to be clear of all the communities and the builders that have built over time in Port Orange. Pis Homes has been a fabulous builder. They build a good quality home. They build good subdivisions. We see them all over our neighborhood. And you can you can almost ride around and you can see certain subdivisions and you can recognize the quality of a subdivision. And so it it really for me doesn't have anything to do about the particular builder or the particular apple. These are just these are concerns that are happening in real time right now in our most recent f uh history and and in our future and in this particular area. You know, like you just said, I'd feel a lot better too if that study was done before tonight. So Yep.

Okay. Anything else? No, other that was it. All right. Thanks. We'll bring it back to uh council for the clerk on the first uh for item 20, the first reading of ordinance number 2025-26. Call the rule to the motion on the floor. Councilman Gford, yes. Councilman Green, yes. Vice Mayor Gross, no. Mayor S. No. To two. Item 21 to the first reading of ordinance number 2025-27. Uh Penelopey cruise planning. I just want to say with the denial of the first item that we can't do the second item. Okay. Okay. So do I need to do anything from a

somebody just need to I'm sorry. Go. Well I I would again I if one of the motioners would be willing to at least let us go back to the table and try to address concerns. Um, you know, I think that's at least do an opportunity given the feedback we received and trying to do right by the neighbors, too. It's uh that that that would be something that I I I think would be fair just given the circumstances. Well, we've had a vote. How does that that would be up to the two members of the prevailing? Um well, actually the prevailing there is no prevailing. If there was a vote for reconsideration, somebody'd have to one one of the council member here would have to bring that up to reconsider the vote at this point

to give to give consideration to tableling. I believe that's what he's requesting. Well, I think we've already had the vote. Yeah, use that. You can you can reconsider that. Don't do that. So, you can reconsider the vote. Okay. If you want to entertain tableabling the motion, tableabling the item for a future date rather than a straight no tonight. But we've already had the vote. We just Correct. You can reconsider a vote after it's been done. Okay. At the same meeting. So it happens tonight or or it doesn't happen. Kind of confused on that what you're saying.

So one of the members of council can request to reconsider the vote. Okay. by making a motion to table the item. That can happen tonight and tonight only. You can reconsider. The applicant can bring something back in the future anyway. It would have to go through the full city process again. Correct. Right. Guys, please please please just please okay? Don't do that. Let let us just be respectful in the meeting. Okay. So,

and there may be some timelines on how quickly you can come back through as well. So, that's I I I think what you're what what you've just got back in feedback is is absent this other study being done and us having this other data, I don't think there's this isn't about like how many trees are on the property or something like that. I think this is larger than that.

Well, in in all due respect, um I I understand your position, mayor, but I I did not hear feedback um from the full commission and I also we have a missing member, too. So again, I I'm I'm only making the request of tableabling. It seems fair just given the um just how the discourse went and the ability to try to do the right by the neighbors and try to incorporate where we can those changes and if there's feedback that is directed when it comes to how to decite how we design it. That's we want we just want that opportunity. That's it. Am I allowed to speak to council members about Oh, absolutely.

I'm just kind of curious. Were you two under the impression that you're waiting for a study from St. John's Water Management or a Spruce Creek study from the basin? I I'm just kind of curious. Um when we you know when we annex this property back in uh January, February, I don't know when it was. It was in June. June. June of this year. Okay. It was this council that annexed this property and clarification. Um, I mean, obviously at that time I clearly knew the reason why was for us to have a subdivision built to continue uh quality growth throughout Port Orange.

And we were clear with that representation. Very clear. So tonight you brought up some concerns and I'm curious what those concerns are for the no vote because we clearly what why would we have a gentleman annex property in to keep it a farm? Yeah, we can discuss a a redo of the vote but we're not we can't go back into the So my question to you is why um are you are your concerns with the study coming? Is that going to change your mind or is it is it a solid no because I don't think I'm a yes vote. He's a yes vote. It's it's those it's those two that they would have to make the consideration to table. Correct.

And you don't have to do that here tonight. That's an option. You don't have to do that here tonight. Every So we could just move on to the next item or we can reconsider right now. The the but any councilman can reconsider. I think the two nos are in the prevailing party right now. The prevailing party. So, one of those two can reconsider or or you don't have to. And this does that go for the tableing too? Correct. And just to be clear, this is this item is for the FLU. Correct. Okay. By implication, density. So, they could have brought a project tonight for one unit an acre as opposed to 0 to two units an acre. they they applied for what they

So, I'm just basing this on what they've brought forward to answer your question. I'm not I'm not opposed to development, but there's a lot of other factors other than just, hey, here's a development I want to build. So, and I agree with you, Scott. And and that's what I was trying to do. Thank you. What do we need to do with with item 21? So item 21, we'll just have to take that motion off the floor because it's no longer relevant because now we don't have the underlying future done by the person who made the motion. Who did make that motion? I don't recall. Sh. I did 25 uh 21. Yeah. 20 2025-27. You want to resend your motion? Rescended. Okay. For the motion. And Sean, would you like to rescend your second as well? I rescend my second.

Okay. All right. So, we have had the motion and the second rescended for item number 21. Item number 22, first reading of ordinance number 2025-28. I move to approve item number 2025-28. Second it. Have a motion in a second. You want to read that?

Oh, the read the word. Yep. That's an ordinance of the city of Porsche County, Florida, amending the land development code chapter 9 relating to residential docks and commercial marine rags, providing for repeal of conflicting ores, severability, and an effective date. Okay, motion go right ahead.

Planning. Um so the proposed amendments are related to water develop water dependent uses like um city attorney said marinas, residential docks and boat houses as part of our ongoing LDC maintenance. Um currently a terminal dock platform is limited to a maximum width of 8 ft and a total area not to exceed 160 square ft. Um about a year ago there was a variance that was reviewed by the planning commission. Um and staff noted that the city's regulations for residential terminal dock platforms as well as other water dependent uses um several of the items that are in this current code amendment tonight haven't been updated in over 30 years. And staff was directed by the planning commission to um after they approve that variance to move forward and and do that analysis with other local government code amendment codes requirements and see where we stand and whether we need to actually amend our land development code. So upon comparison with those current standards in neighboring jurisdictions, staff found that the Port Orange regulations do appear to be outdated and could be revised to reflect advancements in marine equipment, modern construction material, boater and resident safety, larger boat sizes, and to provide more functional space for homeowners to place outdoor furniture, safely maneuvering around the dock, and to better align with modern practices. Um in this particular case, the um other jurisdictions and FDOP allow residential terminal platforms ranging in size from 180 square ft to 1,000 square ft with no restriction in the width of terminal docks um platforms. So the proposed amendment would remove the the 8ft width restriction and increase the maximum allowable term terminal platform area to 500 square ft aligning with those standards of adjacent cities and FD. Um, with regards to boat house height, the currently the maximum permitted height for a boat house is 12 feet above um the water level at meanhigh at the mean high water line when compared with

uh the height requirements for other adjacent cities. Ours was a lower and hadn't been updated since about 1991. Um, other local governments allow a range from 15 to 18 ft. And so our proposed amendment here tonight would increase that height to 18 feet feet to come into alignment with adjacent local governments. Um and it would update that that height for the boat house to accommodate the larger boats that we're seeing now, modern boat lifts um and equipment and features and to respond to rising tides and water levels. Uh currently the land development code with regards to residential dock setbacks um only addresses setbacks for properties with a shoreline length length of 65 ft or more. Um for properties with less than 65 ft of shoreline. There's no specific setback in our land development code. So for the past 20 years, staff's basically been applying the FD FDP standard um for those lots. And so what this part of the amendment does is incorporate those standards um from FD that have been implemented for the past 20 years into our land development code. um basically requiring um for those lots that are less than 65 feet of shoreline to be have the dock centered um centered there on the lot and also allowing the provision that FD has for two adjacent um property owners regardless of shoreline length to share dock structure subject to a setback waiver um agreement. So the last item is regarding commercial marina sighting um criteria. Similarly, these setbacks haven't, you know, been updated for about 30 years or so. Um, currently our LDC limits the finger peers of marinas to a maximum width of 3 feet. And the proposed amendment is increasing to increase that to 4 feet in order to improve safety um of the peers to allow for more space for Boers to board and exit their vessels and to meet

ADA accessibility and public accommodation standards. So with that, staff is recommending approval and here to answer any questions you have. Oh, technical jargon there. Any questions? No, this uh this came in front of me when I was on the planning commission and um I was one of the ones that kind of helped us to say we were

we this is something we needed to update um with with you know obviously you know people's bigger boats if they're going to spend the money for a boat house going to have a nice boat on it and uh they didn't have enough enough room to get the boat out of the water. So um I um I'm I'm good with everything on this and I think it's exactly what we discussed previously. Can you go back to the the You're good then. Can you go back to the final slide, the marina?

The maximum. Yeah, we talked about the maximum is now three and it's going to be four and then there's no width requirements in Valuchia County, no width requirements in Pon Inlet. Are we I mean, do we have can we go to six feet? I mean, someone wanted a wider pathway. I mean, for their finger pier. I mean 4T still I mean a foot that's 6 in on each side. It's not it's not really wide and we're putting a maximum on it. So if someone wanted a little wider space I think it would be I mean there's no width requirement right now for Valia County Pon inlet

and uh and well Orman they don't allow any marinas. I just think that I mean if if a developer or someone wants to bring six feet, we're going to tell them no. When actually six feet safer than four.

Yeah. So if the council wants to amend the ordinance in that in that way, we can do that and that can be changed and and and reflected prior to the second reading or subject to the amend the motion tonight. Um, we were basically going off of actual like marina proposals that we have seen over the past several years. Um, the number that they've asked for is four and we were just we we had three. So, no one's asked for for anything wider than four. Um, that's what I believe we're designing the riverwalk day docks at as well is the four. Um, so that that's why that number came there. It's it was a standard ADA number and that's the what we've seen from from proposed marinas. Not that many have gone forward. Sean,

because I kind of was thinking what he's thinking. Could we do a minimum of four? But there is no max. So if they want to make it wider than four, they could. I think other communities don't have a width requirement. So I if if that's the council's pleasure. Well, you're talking about minimum.

Yeah. I wouldn't want anything I wouldn't want anything minimum than four. I don't like three. Uh and certainly the minimum would be four if they needed to go a little wider. It's it's a lot more accommodating to somebody who's actually using it, especially if there's somebody who's got a handicap chair and then you got someone who's pulling a cart and now you're tight and you know, we're talking about safety. So, I would say that we revise this that it's a minimum of four. No one's going to go too wide because it's costly to do that. Well, and there's still going to be a cost thing when you set minimums, too, right? So, you know, that's Well, we're we're going a maximum of four. So they could So I'd say let's increase it to a maximum six and then they could come with the a variance request. Correct.

Yeah, they could always ask for a variance request. Um you could also if you wanted to change it to to no with requirement like some of these other communities, we could do that too. So right now we don't have even a minimum requirement. No, we have the the maximum in historically that was to to prevent impacts to the seafloor and things like that from having too wide of of peers. I'm not good at reading. I'm sorry. Yeah. I guess in my brain I'm I'm kind of thinking like Sean's thinking I I don't think it should be any narrower than 4T. Yeah.

And as far as the the the maximum goes, I would I cuz cuz if let's say you did a a minimum four, no max, are they still going to have to fall under this 500 square ft total? No, that's a different. So So this is for Marina. We don't have a square footage. This is just for the finger pier for marinas. The 500 foot was for residential terminal dock platforms. So, we've got residential dock standards and then we have commercial dock standards. Yeah. Yeah. I I I like four four minimum like at least a minimum of four maximum of six. Yeah. I I like that. I mean, because I'm just thinking if you get somebody down there in a wheelchair and they're turning around, a little bit more than four feet would be would be a pretty good thing to have. Yeah. Probably just need to amend the motion, I guess.

Yeah. Is there a consent? I I I would make a motion that we amend this uh marina sitting uh this was what it sighting criteria that it's a minimum of 4 feet and a maximum of six feet. Okay. Do you live with that? I can live with that. I'll just

just the Valuchia County code is no width requirement. You know, it makes it easy. It it coincides with Valuchia County. It makes it a standardize. If you want to make a minimum of four feet and then or just keep it to the Valuchia County code, that's perfectly fine. I'm with both of y'all with the wheelchair access. Trust me, living in one for 4 months and going down a dock to go fishing since I had nothing better to do is a nightmare. Yeah. So, 3 feet don't cut it. Yeah. I I I don't like the fact that it's wide open in the county. I I made a motion and it hasn't been second for rules of order. You want hang on before we get your second

I just want to clarify there's nothing in this amendment that changes the width for residential fingerps. This is just for the marina. Correct. So okay those still have that same standard. I'll second what you said. Okay. So back to my ideas. I don't like no requirements. Um, I've been there and seen why. And I would like to set a standard to say if you're going to do this that we're going to do it a minimum of four and a maximum of six with the idea that if someone needed to widen it for some reason, then we could come to them. They could come to us.

So, let's uh let's walk through this procedurally real quick. So, we have a a motion and a second to amend this. Lance, any discussion on that? Anybody in the public wish to discuss on comment on that part? See none. Back to council. Let's vote on on that amendment to this. Roll call, please. Robin is looking at me like, "Hey, he he did this, right?" Got it. Go ahead. Council Gilbert. Yes. Council. Yes. Council member. Yes. I'm sorry.

Yes. 40. And now a vote. Anybody wish to from the public wish to speak on the full motion? As amended. Yeah. Seeing none, back to council. Call the role. Yes. Yes. Vice Mayor. Yes. Yes. 40. Moving on to item 23, council committee reports. This will be the Councilman Sean Gupert show. Starting with the First Step.

Thank you. Uh First Step Shelter had our meeting last month, last Monday. Um they have uh 2.1 million in assets. They've exceeded a thousand placements. They had a reception for that last month. It went very well. They served the food that they served them. It was fantastic. Uh good turnout for that. So everything's moving good. They have their gala coming up, the mayor's ga, Daytona Beach mayor's gala coming up. I'd like to see if we could have some representation there since we do support them.

All right. Um so um with that being said, uh Firstep Shelter is uh you know it it's doing what it's uh meant to do and that's to help people take the step towards uh living out of their car or out of someone else's house and maybe living in their own home which is very exciting. Uh the Chamber of Commerce, we had uh one of their board members speak today and they've got a lot going on. Uh they actually have a uh ribbon cutting for a new business uh tomorrow and they just got a lot of good things happening. Don Bernett is their new executive director bringing in some new members. They've got some great events. They do have their uh installation coming up in December. So if you can attend that, that would be nice, too.

They've had a lot of uh presence on the radio lately, I've noticed. Uh working towards membership increasing just um supporting small businesses. is their their goal and it's working out really well. We have a lot of small businesses in Port South Daytona, Daytona Beach Shores and Pon Simland. Not as much as in Ponlet, but they do participate in a lot of activities that we offer and that sounds good. Gentlemen, anything else to come before us tonight, Mr. City Manager? Mr. Attorney? Yes, sir. No. All right. Have a good night.