City Council - Regular Meeting

Please rise for silent invocation and remain standing for Pledge of Allegiance by the Sugar Mill Elementary National Elementary Honor Society students. Amen. All right, can you guys come on up here to the podium for us? And when you guys are ready, you can lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance tonight. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, if you guys can wait right there, the rest of us can sit. We have six questions we're going to ask each of you tonight. All the questions are different. I hope you studied.

Starting with math.

We're going to start down on this end. If you guys would, come on up here to the microphone. You can kind of pull that down a little bit, okay? Come on up here. We want you to tell us your name, tell us what grade you're in, and what is your favorite topic in school that you like to study?

My name is Holden. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is math.

Very good. Well done.

My name is Skye. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is math. My name is Owen. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is also math. My name is Delilah. I'm in fifth grade, and my favorite topic is reading.

My name is Kylie. I'm in fourth grade and my favorite topic is reading. I'm Ethan. I'm in fourth grade and my favorite topic is math.

I'm Isabella. I'm in fifth grade and my favorite topic is math. My name is Oliver. I'm in fifth grade and my favorite topic is science.

There we go.

My name is Will. I'm in fifth grade. My favorite topic is social studies.

All right. Please introduce yourself.

I'm Buffy Snipes, the AP at Sugar Mill Elementary. My favorite subject is math. Awesome.

We want to thank you guys for being here tonight. We start every meeting with an invocation and a pledge of allegiance and we are so grateful that you guys took some time to come to see us tonight and do that. So thank you very much. As a side note, I would let you know that part of introducing yourselves, we were looking to see who really liked math because our finance director is sitting right over there. She starts recruiting really early. So we don't have any NIL deals. But she does start recruiting. So you guys excited about summer being right around the corner? School year is almost over, right? Well, we hope you guys have a wonderful, wonderful summer. Thanks again for coming.

Good job, guys.

Thanks, guys. Will the clerk call the roll?

Councilman Foley? Here. Councilman Gifford?

Here.

Councilman Green? Is here. Vice Mayor Groves? Yes. Mayor Stiltner?

Here. Everybody is here. Item 4 was a presentation by Buddy Davenport, the chairman of the Florida Inland Navigational District. He unfortunately had an incident late this afternoon and he will need to reschedule, so he will not be here. That's going to bring us quickly to item five, public comments on consent agenda items only. Any public comments on consent agenda items only? Robert, welcome. Good to see you.

Mayor, council members, Robert Reinhagen, Port Orange. I would like to talk about item number 10, license agreement for the use of the Riverwalk Trail for special events. This summary here says that It's limitation of use to Sunday only. But when I read the license agreement, I can't find that in the license agreement. The only reference to Sunday is it just says the licensee currently hosts a weekly Sunday morning waterfront market, creating a community-oriented market experience in conjunction with the restaurant, special events. And when you read special events, it says approval by the city for any special event shall be required in accordance with the code of ordinance my concern is that uh ultimately uh you know they might open it up again for friday or thursday or another day because it just is not clear it's it's much too vague so i think you need to get some clarity there

thank you thank you thank you anyone else on consent agenda items only all right back to council council can i get a motion to approve consent agenda item 6-3-13 moved to approve consent agenda item 6-3-13 second we have a motion in a second will the clerk call the roll

Councilman Foley? Yes. Councilman Gifford? Yes. Councilman Green? Yes. Vice Mayor Grubbs? Yes. Mayor Stiller?

Yes, 5-0. I'm aware that we have a little bit of a conflict with our agenda and also a neighborhood HOA meeting involving the Cypress Head. So I'm interested to see do we have a, which our golf advisory board appointment item 19, do we have anybody who would like to make a motion to move that up to the agenda for us to take care of now?

So moved. Second.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. All right. So let's go ahead and move. We're going to move item 19, golf advisory board appointments up. You can get that taken care of now. And unfortunately, I don't have my computer with me yet. Oh, there he is. A little bit of an IT issue. None of the students, they were all math, science, and reading, or I was going to pass this on to one of them. Wayne, can you... Bring us up to speed on this item, what we're doing here while I'm trying to get logged in. I know we've got to fill some positions here. Or somebody at council? I do.

So there's four seats that are actually up for reappointment to a three-year term. And as part of the ordinance the golf advisory board is is supposed to have somebody from the women's golf from the men's golf And etc. So what we have here is two people are stepping down Miss Jane Taylor who's been on this board for a long long time and she also represents our HOA in our neighborhood, so she is stepping down and so also is a Mike Bagnato and he's here tonight and again, we want to appreciate his service and So we have two people that are up for reappointment, and that's Gary Brigadoo and Dennis Flesh, who I know Dennis has been on there quite some time. But there are two new applicants, Holly Purple and James Walsh. So with that, I think basically you've got two people trying to fill two seats and two reappointments. okay would somebody like to make a motion to that i'll make that motion to uh to reappoint dennis flesh gary brigadoo and to appoint holly purple and james walsh to uh to these new uh three-year terms i'll second it all right we have a motion and a second would any of the applicants like to speak you guys want to talk us out of it hopefully golf right

all right uh okay excellent thank you that's good all right so uh back back to council council members any comments all right we have a motion in a second all in favor of this uh motion say aye aye aye aye any opposed like sign five oh just like that you're hired thank you all right the pay is incredible

Thank you, guys.

Oh, yes. Thank you. All right. That's going to put us back on schedule here to item 14, Memorial Day 2026 proclamation. So give me just a moment. Let me go ahead and present this. Whereas since our nation's founding, Americans, sons and daughters have given their lives in service to our country. Each day, as Americans, we enjoy the freedom, the peace, prosperity, and independence. These are virtues upon which the United States was built and ideals that bind us together as a nation. And whereas the first Memorial Day was observed in 1868 in remembrance of soldiers who died in the Civil War, and since that year our nation has set aside this day to pay homage to American patriots who have fallen in service to our country, and whereas on Memorial Day we pause to remember that freedom comes at a great cost. Throughout history, American military personnel have stood tall to oppose the enemies of freedom. Many of these brave servicemen and women gave their lives to defend our liberty and to uphold the promise of our democracy. And now, therefore, I, Scott Stiltner, Mayor of the City of Port Orange, Florida, do hereby present this proclamation in remembrance of Memorial Day and urge all citizens to show respect for our veterans and continue to remember and appreciate the sacrifices they have made for freedom. Public participation, non-agenda. We have Angela LaDuke. Did I say that right? Did I get the last name right? Yeah. All right. Welcome.

Thank you. Angela LeDuc, 674 Herbert Street. Thank you, council members, for listening to what I have to say tonight. In 2022, the city entered into a two-year agreement with Flock Safety for nine Falcon cameras. The contract renewed in 2024, and it's set to expire this year. I'm here tonight to ask you not to renew this agreement. The taxpayers have spent at least $103,000 over the last four years to be unlawfully surveilled. These Falcon cameras are marketed as automated license plate readers. They are actually AI-powered surveillance machines that capture every passing vehicle and person and transmit that data to a private corporate cloud that state and federal agencies can search at will. Flock Safety is a private for-profit tech company with no transparency laws and no oversight. Their 90,000 cameras nationwide are always watching. Their algorithm never sleeps. 24-7 location tracking should require a warrant to uphold the Fourth Amendment. In 2012, U.S. v. Jones, the Supreme Court said you can't track a car without a warrant. You can't retrace your steps from information collected from third parties. In 2018, Carpenter v. U.S., the court said A person does not surrender all Fourth Amendment protection by venturing into a public sphere. These cameras continuously record our movements without a warrant, probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion. Privacy is a right we must demand and protect for everyone in Port Orange. The city does not control the data, and the residents have no public record against a private company's servers. Privacy isn't about hiding wrongdoing. It's about autonomy, dignity, and the ability to live free from unjust scrutiny. Our data is simply just not safe in the hands of flock. YouTuber Ben Jordan has discovered their system is severely compromised. He found that many cameras are live streaming directly to the open internet and that any reasonable skilled hacker can gain access to these cameras. i would like our city to audit the vulnerabilities of this software that we are paying for i will also ask you to have a vote to early terminate this contract and remove all flock cameras from our city many cities nationwide are in lawsuits and are canceling their contracts from Ithaca New York to Santa Cruz California to Austin Texas to Cambridge Mass and many many more taxpayer money is funding data harvesting and i ask you not to renew this contract i'll end with a quote from benjamin franklin those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety thank you thank you thank you rebecca geishin with the portland south katowna chamber of commerce welcome

Thank you. Good evening. Rebecca Gatton, 3250 South Nova Road. And I am here representing the Port Orange South Daytona Chamber of Commerce. I want to thank you all for your continued support of our wonderful chamber. We do have a couple events coming up on Memorial Day, May 25th. We do have a ceremony here out at the pond at 10 a.m. And then there is a ribbon cutting on June 2nd at 4 p.m. Realty Pros Assured on Dunlaughton. So thank you again for your support.

Thank you. All right. Council member comments. Let's start with Mr. Foley tonight.

Nothing to nightmare.

All right. How about Mr. Grubbs?

So on consent agenda item number nine, just wanted to bring up some of the importance of what's going on with the sidewalks. We're about halfway through sidewalks on Willow Run. One of the big keynotes here is everybody's always asking why it takes time to get things done. And the reality is, is this project has been slated for many years. I mean, many years, over eight years. And the beauty of it is, is it's over a half a million dollars. And it gets down to the taxpayer money when it all shakes out to about $55,000 is all being paid by Port Orange. So sometimes waiting, it comes around, it saves the taxpayers thousands of dollars. So thank you for staff and the citizens for waiting to be able to get this project together. It's on the home stretch now down by Williamson being cut in, 12 foot path going all the way around. uh will run and connecting into town park so that should be done here within the next month um and then memorial day uh park boardwalk is all set up and ready for the memorial day event this weekend so if you haven't been over there and look at it the the staff did a phenomenal job rebuilding that area it looks beautiful and it should be a great event absolutely that's it sean how about it

Yeah, so Saturday I got to participate in Rotary Club Port Orange South Daytona's road cleanup. They decided to tackle Riverfront Park and from basically the chamber office or the kayak launch all the way to Dunlaughton. And I started in that area working my way through our property. And I was really impressed with the fact that I didn't have a lot to pick up. Our staff is doing a really good job of keeping debris that comes off of trucks and gets left behind by folks. Just keeping it clean. I really appreciate that. There was a lot of debris that we picked up along the river. And that just happens every time I've done a river cleanup. It's, you know, just that's where it ends up is on the shoreline. There's quite a bit of debris on the west side of Tiki Docks parking lot where people park and drank and throw their cans over into our property there but outside of probably 50 mosquito bites I'm doing pretty good and our staff is doing a pretty good job of keeping that area clean so we certainly do appreciate that I did find though there is a shopping cart in the middle of the property that we failed to get but that's still sitting there shopping carts have a life of their own I have no idea where anything else nope that's all right excellent

Mr. Green.

Nothing tonight?

Nothing. All right. Just a couple of short things, and we don't have to have a lot of discussion on it tonight or make any decisions, and I'm going to talk to the city manager a little bit more about this, but one of the things I want to make sure that we're doing, we get a tremendous amount of citizen contact and concern about issues that are not related to the city governance. A lot of the concerns or comments we get a lot of times are related to county government or state government or what have you, And I'm concerned that We haven't ever had really a good discussion on some consistency on how we forward that to those agencies. Now I believe, and we'll get the city manager, he doesn't have to comment on it because I'm not trying to put him on the spot. But I know through our internal process system that they do have a process if a citizen sends in something and says, hey, I'm concerned about this in this particular area, and it turns out it's county, they forward it. But here's what I'm not sure is happening. The elected officials for those areas, are being informed about it they're not hearing about it unless we are reaching out to them to you know the county the county district rep or the state representative of the state senator or whatever and passing these things on so I want to just have a little discussion about it be thinking on that I want to have some consistency on how we do that because I want to make sure that not only our staff to those government agency staffs are giving the information on what the concern is but I want to make sure those elected representatives for those other organizations government whether it's school board county council state representative state senators whatever that is i want to make sure they're getting i even had one not too long ago from a from a resident in south daytona who thought they lived in port orange and you know when i so i called mayor hall to be able to pass that on directly to him but i just want to make sure we're having some consistency and i do want to make sure those elected officials are hearing it because i know that's a lot of what we hear back in the public On that note, I had staff do a little work because I was getting a lot of phone calls about the repaving project that's been going on west of I-95. And so thank you very much, Robin, for giving me information on that. That is a county project. We were able to get the full scope of it. It basically will cover Taylor Road from I-95 out to about Crane Lakes. And then it will only go south on Williamson to just past the VFW entrance, but then it's going to go north all the way to almost the base of the bridge. So there's still a lot of work there. The rain hampered and delayed some stuff. They also had a lot of crews that were going out and doing some of the beforehand work, if you will. The curves and fixing some sidewalks and some areas and some driveways and things like that. Looks like all that's done, so they should be getting close to just doing the mass part of the painting. But the work that they've already done looks really good, because there is a lot of concerns in the infrastructure in that area with the roadways. So I know the residents are appreciative.

Just a note on that though, Mr. Mayor, they're all working at night. Yes. Be aware.

Excellent. Also, just want to say it is National EMS Appreciation Week, May 17th through the 23rd. So thank you to all those that serve in the EMS capacity. And last week was National Law Enforcement Appreciation Week, May 17th. 10th through the 16th so thanks to those folks and incidentally enough you know I know we all see you know I don't do a lot of social media anymore but from time to time you'll see things on social media it's this week and it's this appreciation week and so forth and and uh I did want to say that I noticed that law enforcement gets a week the firefighters get a month I think the whole thing is September, right, Chief? Like, the whole month of September, I think. So we'll be thanking them coming up.

They're always looking to, you know, get that upper level.

So good deal. But thank you to all those that serve in the public safety capacity and all those roles. We do appreciate you guys. And that's all I've got. So let's see what the city attorney has tonight. Nothing for you tonight. All right.

Mr. City Manager, you got a few things? I got a couple on our list. For Riverwalk, obviously tonight we did the Tiki Docs license agreement. One of the things that we had been told by the brokers and people in the area looking at the overall project is activity down there is good for us. Anytime you could show activity, that Sunday morning thing is an outstanding thing. It originated that the coffee shop guy had hired somebody to help do events. Tiki Docs is a bigger company. They stole the event person from them. But they have done an outstanding job of drawing energy down there on Sunday. So that's the kind of stuff that when you go to show somebody this site and what its potential is, it's making a difference. So that's a positive step. The people that we've been talking to, we're thinking probably sometime this summer would be when we would bring whatever the top two or so people are for you guys to consider for potential sale of it. But one of the things that we're hearing different when Bristol was in here, basically they were going to own the whole thing and have it all be private. And the roads, the seawall, the park and all that, I think that was probably part of the problem they ran into is that they couldn't probably make that work for them. uh one of the everybody's really been talking to us has asked that question do you ha do we have to own the roads can would the city be willing to maintain the streets in their public they ask questions about potential fine grants for the seawall and how the park would be done so i would expect when we get proposals this time around it won't be give us the 11 acres, we're gonna make it an entire private development. It's likely that there'll be some questions about infrastructure being shared, some public, some private. What we're gonna do with Bristol is they were gonna get TIF tax increment benefits to offset the cost of it. I think these guys don't, they just wanna go, how about you cover some of the infrastructure that will be public, like typical in other downtown. So just be aware as that's going forward. On stormwater projects, the coming up in on June two, we're going to have the contract to start demolishing the three properties that we already have acquired the two and sugar forest and the one on trail woods and now that we own and we've got to get them knocked down in July, and then about then so there'll be a contract on June two with the company that we did bids for principally because they've got to be able to work under federal requirements. So it's a little bit it's not just like some guy to go knock down a house, you've got to follow certain rules to to knock these down under this funding source. So that's coming forward for activity for those lots. I know it's important that we make sure that those lots, we're not gonna build Augusta National looking greens on those properties, But we need to they're going to be in residential areas. We've also got to make sure that it's okay and fits into the neighborhood without it being a super high level. So there's a balance in there as we get these lots cleared and move forward. Also in stormwater, the Cambridge bid awards or the bid bids are due May 29. So we expect to bring the whoever is the best bid to you in June. So the second meeting, the second meeting in June would come to you for that and then depending on how the award goes, you're looking at late summer start of construction for that project. So we did spend quite a bit of time with people during the bid process. There's some complex questions asked, which is good because it's a whole lot better to get it right on the front end and have the bids be good. They bring you change orders later in the process. So a lot of people showed up and had questions about the electric in there dealing with the pumps and how everything works. You're also dealing with the complexity of working in the FEC right away and You know, they have almost as much power as anybody railroad companies do. So they had questions about how do we do this, what are the rules that are going to apply to us, and how do we work in it. So there were a lot of good questions to clarify that hopefully that makes the bids better so that gets you a better project price and a more accurate project price coming forward. So it was worth the time to put into it because it's not a simple project. There's going to be some complexity there given the nature of that. One of the things the county's doing, they brought them up at the roundtable. The committee's name is Stormwater Mitigation and Flooding Subcommittee, real long name of that regional group that does that. So they've got a meeting coming up at the end of the month. The county's working on a dashboard on their website that will track county projects, sort of two ways. They're going to look at the projects and the maintenance. So what are they building new and how are they maintaining what they own? And they're trying to set it up so that the cities can upload their stuff so you can go to one county site and track regional stormwater. They're going to probably spend most of the summer working with this committee, trying to make sure they get it the way they want to. But they've been really good at communicating with us. They're already doing a regular newsletter in which we get to submit stuff to it. So that's been out for a couple, I think two or three issues of that have been put out. So the county's working on communication and where that helps us all to have their bigger span that gets to more people that way.

Will they basically just be able to pull the stuff off of our website? or what would be different?

They're wanting us to put it there. They're saying we don't want to be editorial control, so you tell us what you want on it.

So basically all of our information in the city of Port Orange will be available on our site and on the county site? Correct. Okay. What else you got?

The parks bond project. So this one's not a park bond project, but people were interested in that. The Bushman disc golf course. So the signs started going in, I think it was last week. It should be completed this week. Is that the correct number? Okay. And then they're going to advertise the opening. So we expect late this week we will advertise the opening of the golf course. And then tonight you also awarded the contract to start design for Rec West. That one, similar kind of components to the rec we have here. But as it goes forward, we'll bring updates to council and give you a chance to comment on the plans as it goes forward. It won't just show back up as a finished thing. We'll talk to you as we go along. And the trail project, so Tim has already submitted that to the TPO. It's in a feasibility study for the bigger trails that are part of the bond. But in addition to that, the Presbyterian Church across the street over here owns a bunch of land to the north side of the church underneath the power line easements. don't think given their future plans that they want to hold on to that so they have shown an interest in letting us acquire it from them so we're in early stages but it's a big piece of land it's over 10 like 18 acres of land it's a fairly large piece of land that could work as part of a trailhead or something so we've had some preliminary conversations with them on that so that that's part of the park spot that's all i've got thank you appreciate that information anybody have any questions for this event or any of that stuff

Brings us to item 18, citizen advisory committee for the TPO. Mr. Bobby Ball. How are you, sir? Good, how are you? Good, good to see you.

Good evening, Bobby Ball with the CAC for the TPO. We had our monthly meeting. It was probably our shortest meeting in a really long time. We didn't have any agenda items, and we really just got a couple of drafts for some future items that are coming up to us probably next month. So I don't really have anything to report, but I'll take any questions.

Any questions for Bobby? Great report.

How's our new official doing so far? Doing pretty good. Our new representative. No complaints?

No complaints. Thanks, Bobby. Appreciate you.

I'll try harder.

All right, and that's going to bring us to the public hearing portion of the meeting, item 22nd, reading of ordinance number 2026-2.

it's an ordinance of the city of orange volusia county florida relating to comprehensive planning amending the future land use map of the comprehensive plan amending the future land use designation for approximately 56.53 acres consisting of 52.96 acres from volusia county agricultural resource one unit per 10 acres and 3.57 acres from volusia county urban low intensity zero to four acre 0 to 4 units per acre to City of Port Orange rural transition 0 to 2 units per acre for property generally located north of Charles Street and west of Airport Road with text amendment adding a future land use element policy to provide density limits for the overall 56.53 acres 56.53 acre property authorized transmittal to required agencies provide for conflicting ordinances severability and an effective date

Can I get a motion and a second to approve on second reading ordinance number 2026-2?

I move to approve ordinance number 2026-2. Can I get a second?

Second. I have a motion and a second. Mr. City Manager, on the first reading, there were some discussion and changes that council had asked for. Can you comment on that for us?

This includes both a large-scale comprehensive plan and a zoning plan. And the density limits in both of them don't line up perfectly. The land use limits were a little different flexibility, and council members had asked about a way to limit that. And so one of the things that the mayor brought up and council agreed to put into the motion was to limit the land use to one unit an acre. That got put in there. That was what got sent forward and transmitted to the state. So that is part of it. It's part of the motion. It's part of the item. So if you approve this tonight, you are approving that one unit an acre density limit on the land use as well. Thank you.

Council, any comments? No? Not yet. Anybody from the public want to speak to this item? Come on up. Welcome.

Hi. Jan Albert, Country Circle East, Port Orange, appraiser and hydrologist for 54 years. I'm kind of surprised that we're not going to the end of the moratorium on this piece because changing the names doesn't change anything, but... What I want to talk about is the one per acre density would normally be wonderful except on this site it isn't suitable enough because it's hydrologically very fragile. And you're going to need other things besides just the density change. You're going to need to have stem wall construction to individual cisterns, to dry wells, to vegetative berms, rain gardens, etc. the way it's drawn you're going to have 25 million gallons going for into the creek with each four inch rain event we had eight of those last year and that's typical without a hurricane and that is in violation of both chapter 50 and of the volusia stormwater as well as the house bill 403 and So we met this morning with Jane Dye, who is the stormwater manager at Volusia. And the basin study is delayed, which is not a surprise, but the first phase of it is not going to deal with the meander point. And it's gonna take a long, right now, they're not even, they're modeling data from 2021. so I'm gonna tell you what's at the meander point and she actually invited me to send her my own Manning's calculations which the Manning's coefficient is a function of the impotence of the water flow from the debris and there's still 60% of the debris at the main tributary as well as to the south so we need to do those elements of design to to get this in compliance and the reason we need to follow the compliance is to avoid multiple flooding events from this so even one house on that site that's what i'm saying it's not one per acres sounds great on any other parcel but this one is very challenging with the astatula soil how it flows into the creek so I think you should wait and let them come back with a plan that can actually meet the standards of lucia chapter 50 and House bill 403 thank you thank you thank you anybody else want to speak to this anybody else wish to speak

My name is Gary Singleton. I'm a resident of Tomoka Farms Village. First issue, setting aside the one-year moratorium. Rules are meaningless unless enforced. Allowing superficial changes to nullify the one-year moratorium is a perfect example. It demonstrates a blatant disregard for both the letter and intent of your own rules. Paytas Homes, Paytas Engineer, Paytas Attorney, Vintage Acres. Paytas Homes, Paytas Engineer, Paytas Attorney, Palin Acres. Paytas Homes, Paytas Engineer, Paytas Attorney, fill in the blank, Acres. same property same company same engineer same attorney putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact that it's a pig the second issue reducing the number of units is irrelevant when it's management of storm water that poses the greatest threat to the safety of neighboring properties only the implementation of low impact development methods will enable paytas to comply with the legal requirements to maintain volume and discharge rates at pre-development levels Today, Jan and I met with the Spruce Creek Basin project manager, Jane Dye. We were distressed that phase one was complete, but they were still modeling with data two to six years old. Even more distressing was proposed scope of phase two, which appears to not consider the debris from the last five hurricanes at the meander points. This section of Spruce Creek is an essential element of the Spruce Creek Basin environmental stormwater system. Whether you accept our expert testimony based on extensive data files or the legal application of Chapter 50 on municipalities, it remains incumbent on you to do your due diligence so that your actions do not lead to or allow this or any other development to harm surrounding properties. No approval should be given relating to development of properties within the basin until Spruce Creek's current capacity is known. No overall development plan should be approved without legally binding guarantees that stormwater runoff will be maintained at pre-development volume and discharge levels. The world will never be a better place if no one is brave enough to do the right thing.

Thank you. Anybody else? Come on up. Welcome.

Good evening, Mike Poniatowski, Tomoka Farms Village. Thanks for having me tonight. You know, we've come a long way with this development, from 111 homes to about 49 or 50 homes, and I think that's a great step forward. Looking at the land, and you've seen the pictures we've showed you of Hurricane Ian and Milton with the cows up to their bellies and watering on that piece of property, They're going to have to do drain, fill, and build on slab construction. We would love for them to incorporate, and we're very happy with what Mr. Paytas is trying to do by reducing the densities, which is nice. We need to put in more low-impact development. into this project, being stem walls, cisterns, more water accumulation points, things that keep the water from running off into an already corrupted Spruce Creek. And we've already heard that the study is going to be delayed, and we're really not going to get good data out of it if they're using data that's six years old. So let's be concerned about people who live in Port Orange adjacent to that land and the county folks that live adjacent to that land and to Spruce Creek. Because Spruce Creek, as you know, is where most of the stormwater drains from east central Volusia County. from Beville Road south and probably New Smyrna north and every point in between drains into Spruce Creek. And we've seen what happens, not necessarily with hurricanes, but with four and six inch rainstorms. And we've had a couple just not too recently ago that did flood some roads thank goodness this year we're supposed to have a lower below average hurricane season so we may not see some big storms so this will be the test if we don't have big storms this year we will have our typical thunderstorms that'll give us four to six inches of rain over three to four-hour period and we'll really test what Spruce Creek can handle what the roads do and hopefully we can get you guys to work with staff and Paytas Construction to put more low-impact development features into this development and make it a test may cost a little more money but it's something good for the community You know, this is a collaboration and we've come a long way since about eight months ago when it was a big, big development and we had a room full of folks here and you guys really changed your mind and you listened and you listened to what we had to say and you did your own research. We appreciate that. So I think moving forward, it needs to be a collaboration again with the city, the staff, the residents and the developer to really put in some nice low impact development in there. Hopefully we can wait for the study, but I don't think that's going to work because we're not going to get good data out of it anyway in phase one. But thanks for listening. I appreciate it. You guys are doing a great job and carry on. Thanks.

Anybody else wish to speak to this project? All right, back to counsel. Counsel, any other comments?

No. We hashed the heck out of this thing last time. It's just tough, man. I'm going to open up real quick just because it's very plain speak to me. It's such a tough spot to be in our chairs. How do we look at somebody that is wanting to invest in our city who has come forward and compromised a lot? Say, hey, thanks for the steak, thanks for the eggs, or thanks for the potatoes and the veggies, but we need you to throw in dessert too. And we've seen a lot of things come forward where They may or may not have been the right fit. I can't think in my time on council, albeit short five years, when someone has come forward and made this many concessions. my my home flooded twice in sleepy hollow all right that is not a fun experience and you know i roads flooding is one thing right a lot of people don't realize especially in older port orange we did not have the drainage system we did not have the data that we have today to know what we needed back then and so the the idea was road holds water water eventually makes its way out we've learned so much from there um It's just a really tough spot because on one hand, when my house flooded twice, I never wanted to see another two by four go up ever, right? That's how I felt in the heat of the moment. But then I sit here and I see someone who is really trying to do the best they can with the property they're doing. And you know, how do I tell a developer, a landowner, whether it be someone who owns a third of an acre in a neighborhood or whether it be someone who owns, you know, we're looking at here 50 56.53 acres you know it's it is just such a tough spot i don't want you guys to sit here and think it's that it comes easy to just say hey yes yes because if it was would have rejected in the first place i still have i've still been very very 51 49 on this because I still felt like the right thing to do is to make them wait the whole year. But overall, I think we have to admit and have to acknowledge that there's been a great deal of work done on the other side to try to do the right thing here while still also proceeding with their plans. And so again, that comes from the heart of somebody who understands what it is like to be the neighbor and to be the one on the wrong side of things, right? So I just wanted to speak my piece on that. I hope you guys understand what I mean when I say that.

Anything else? My only comment is that... this is not the same project that we started with and so it's not even remotely the same project not even close in density or scope or any of that so you know we've had some comments about well they have to wait a whole year well no they don't if the project has that amount of significant difference the ordinance allows for the applicant to bring us back a different project so that has been the case and that's what's happened here so court called a roll

Councilman Foley? No. Councilman Gephardt? Yes. Councilman Green? Yes. Vice Mayor Gross?

Yes.

Mayor Silver?

Yes. 4-1. Item 21, second reading of ordinance number 2026-3.

It's an ordinance of the city of Florence, Volusia County, Florida rezoning approximately 56.53 acres consisting of 52.96 acres from Volusia County A1 prime agriculture and 3.57 acres from Volusia County A2 rural agriculture. to City of Port Orange R20SF single-family residential for property generally located north of Charles Street and west of Airport Road, authorizing revision of the official zoning atlas to provide for conflicting ordinances, severability, and an effective date.

Can I get a motion to approve on second reading ordinance number 2026-3 or a second?

Move to approve ordinance number 2026-3. Second.

I have a motion and a second. Council, any comments?

I'll just make one small comment here is, while I do think the mayor is right, there's been a great deal of change. I still don't like the optics. And I've learned from some of my predecessors that have sat up here, oftentimes perception is reality. And my convention lies in the one year waiting period. And that is the sole reason for my vote being what it was and what it will be for this. But I do think I should state that.

and i can appreciate that and i would just say that optics are difficult very but our job is to not be swayed by optics our job is to look at the material the facts the application the ordinance and all those things and understand that we have to govern by those rules and standards and past practices and all those different kinds of things Um, but, but, and there are times when clearly, you know, uh, optics and the community input and the contact and all those things are very meritorious and are part of it.

Well, and it's, it's absolutely factual for me. It's, it's, it's still, it's still the belief that one year would have been the right thing to do. And that's just where things lie for me. That's all.

That's good. I meant to ask Mr. City Manager, do you have anything you wanted to add to this particular item? Nothing on this. Okay, I'm sorry.

Yeah. In reference to waiting the whole year. I kind of want to know if Scott can help me the history of that kind of that rule. So I understand it and you can correct me if I'm wrong when that when that was put into play. When Port Orange was developing rapidly, which we have seen a complete slowdown in development in this community from 2000, I'd say 1996 on, it was, you know, Water's Edge was being developed, Sanctuary, Ashton Lakes, all that stuff was coming. And I think that that rule was in place for that error. And that error is gone. We don't have in the city of Port Orange. A lot going on when it comes to development. We don't have the land. We annexed in this property knowing darn well that there was going to be a development there. And I like the product now. I'm glad you didn't wait a year and come back with another 113 and we had that tough discussion. I'm glad we're back to 50. I think it was a smart move. I think it's what people want too. I think you're gonna have no problem selling them. I certainly like to be on an acre. I know a lot of other people would like to be on one as well out in that area, in that rural area. So it's a win-win for the city. But back to that waiting period, I believe that was in place. And correct me if I'm wrong, back in the heyday when we were just, I mean, they were knocking our doors down to build in the city. And if something wasn't right, we didn't have enough time because we had another one in line. And I remember many times being in this room where it was one development after another. So we're not in that position where we have to wait. Now, the water study, and I see the sign, wait for the Spruce Creek Water Basin Study. So not a whole lot's changed since the last one was done out there. If there's a study, you can go find it. It's in Bush County's records and I read it. It's about an 86 page study and I sent it to every one of you guys to look at. And not a lot's changed, but it did educate me on where the water's coming from. And it's not going, it's not really coming from the east headed west. It's from the west coming east into the Creek, two and a half feet above sea level from 48 feet out west near the, uh, the jail. So water's coming and it's not from development. It's from mother nature, bringing it this way. And it just heads, it just heads to that inlet and it gets to the Creek and the Creek Creek flooded big time. But I don't think it was naturally from runoff. It was from storm surge. and when you look at studies like that it's storm surge that causes most of the flooding in modern day development everything west of 95 not much of it flooded there were a few homes in certain aspects but that was due to large amounts of rain in a short period of time but overall when we have four to six inches range we don't have any flooding problems we don't have water in the streets but that's where it belongs and then it's gone within the next day so i've very much looked at this i've looked at prior studies I've been in the business and we'll say for 30 years and insurance for 12 I've looked at every angle and I feel very very comfortable and very thankful that we have a development with just 50 homes going out there to keep that world feel to it which is a lot less than what's across the street at water's edge I couldn't stand it when they developed that neighborhood but it's there and I've lived there at one time so I just wanted to say that's kind of why I'm okay with this now I understand where you're coming from.

Well, I hope what I'm saying doesn't come across as rebuking what you guys are going with here. As I said, it's very much a coin flip for me. I could land on your side, and I did in the first reading. I've really been thinking about this a lot, knowing it was coming back to us. It is no disrespect. As I said, we have a developer who has made an amazing amount of concessions and who has become a great partner, and we should value that. On the same side, I have run into this conviction that I... we have that in place if we don't want that in place then we need to adopt a different ordinance and change that policy but i don't want i can't vote on what i think the policy should be i have to vote on what i think the policy is now yeah i apologize guys and i'll stop oh yeah i apologize i have a role here and i can't let us get off the actual agenda item yes sir and a couple of times i think the city attorney has kind of glared down at me like you're

I got to bring that back in. Yes, sir. Any comments specific to the motion on the floor and the agenda item? Those are all great points, and we can have further discussions on those at another time, but any specific comments to the agenda item that's been motioned?

I'm good. No? No.

Anybody in the public wish to have further comment?

Come on. And it's a segue to what Mr. Gephardt said about stormwater, where it's coming from. And if I'm off topic, you can just tell me, and I'll come back at a different time. So I live out in the support of Parma Zillow. It's been there 40 years. And behind us, Port Orange has developed tenfold since we moved into our home back in 1986. And we never had flooding. We never had standing water out there, regardless of hurricanes, tropical storms, 7, 8, and trains. until Port Orange built their two huge water reclaimed water plant or ponds directly west of my home. And we have the data during storms like Ian and Milton, the city of Port Orange pumped over 20 million gallons of stormwater to those ponds every day. I've got the data. And that water outflowed to Spruce Creek and to our village because we've modeled it. We've got drone footage. We've followed the water from the outflow of your ponds. And that's the water that, because of development, floods our homes. And we have that data and we have that footage. So when we're told that the water comes from way out west, yeah, it's west. It's just about 10 miles west of us. For our homes, the water that comes from your reclaimed water ponds, the 75 acre and 100 acre pond, and you just built the berm up on one of them because you knew you needed more capacity there. That water is still overflowing into our neighborhoods. And I'd invite you to come out and I'll walk you out there and show you where the water is actually coming from. And it is coming from the water that Port Orange is pumping out to its reclaimed water ponds because you guys don't have the capacity to hold it in the town anymore, in the city anymore. Because you've developed the property and that water flows somewhere else into your storm drain system. It floods to your water processing plant and it's pumped west and sometimes I guess it's pumped into the river. But we've got the data. We get it from the state every month. And we can show you the facts, figures, numbers, date, times, all that good stuff. And I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just want to tell you that we are actually getting water from the city coming into our homes in the Tmoke Farms Village. And we have for about 12 years now. So, I'd be happy to meet with you out there and show you that. Just a point of fact. Thank you very much.

The Press Thank you. Mr. Mayor Schiller, before anybody replies to any of that, there's a pending action that we've got a notice for a complaint coming in on that specific issue. I'm requesting that nobody respond that issue and i would tell you i i would advise against going out and doing any site visits at this point under these circumstances thank you anybody else to comment on this specific agenda item

Thank you. My name is John Gerchak. I live on Country Circle Drive East. I'm a Vietnam veteran. And when I was in the Army, if they said to be somewhere at 0800, you'd be there at 0800. That was the rules. Now your rules were one year moratorium on this. And you said it was good for the city. But what about the rest of us? The rest of us on that whole block on Country Circle Drive East flooded, including me. And I think you're doing the wrong thing by approving this. And It's hard to take from the military. Because I wanted to leave the city as a Vietnam veteran to the country. And now I'm being surrounded by urban settings. And I don't like it. I've been at my home almost 50 years on Country Circle Drive East. And it was not fun being flooded. We were out of power because of the floods. Our power transformer went underwater. So that is my opinion that it should have been on the one-year moratorium. You don't change the rules like they told me to be there at 0800 because you might not make it. You just might not make it. Thank you very much.

Thank you for your service. Anyone else want to speak up? I'll get you next. Go ahead, Roberts.

Mayor, council members, Robert Reinhagen, Fort Orange. Since I've lived here, to my knowledge, Spruce Creek has been an impaired waterway the whole time. And it's been identified that way. And part of the requirement is that there be a basin management plan available to study that. And now it's been years and years and it's still not done. So I think it's time to say, stop. Let's understand what's really going on. So I think you should turn this down. Thank you very much.

Welcome.

It's hard to believe that Matt, introduce yourself. It's hard to believe that the way of life depends on four people, how you vote up here. Out of four people, this council, four of you want to change everybody's life out there. Ruin a way of life. Nobody out there wants that. You know that. And the people that want it out there are just going to be the one lining their pockets. They're getting paid. But, you know, take a way of life from everybody out there. So we gotta sit at home and just be all right with the judgment of four of you guys that vote yes on this and nobody else gets a say in it. So that's a tough pill to swallow. So it's, I just can't believe you see all these people that don't want this and you all still just think it's all right. And for you to say that water comes from the West, It comes from the east too. So, probably want to get your facts straight before you start saying stuff like that.

Anybody else have any comments? All right, back to back to council. Council, any other comments? Good? Call the roll.

Councilman Foley? No. Councilman Gettiford? Yes. Councilman Green? Yes. Vice Mayor Groves? No. Mayor Stilner?

Yes. 3-2. reports. Item 22, First Step Shelter.

First Step Shelter is in search of a new executive director and the nice thing about that search process, it's made up of volunteers that provided us the first director that was with us for over five years and they've done a phenomenal job out there housing over a thousand people. So that's the latest news there and I can share with you. about ford orange south daytona chamber of commerce yes ford orange south daytona commerce i've got some notes here from our executive director today there and uh just give me one moment they're doing fantastic they've had uh i know the information is not looking uh they have uh 50 new members since january 1st they had their uh One of their biggest fundraisers was the Tasteful Affair. They had over 22 restaurants, over 160 people attended. So that was one fantastic turnout. The weather was perfect and a lot of new faces there. Today they had their new member reception. They had eight new members join today and share their story. So a lot of good things are happening. They've got a new staff person there to help them with events. So they're fully staffed. They got a great executive director and our former mayor.

understands our city and i think they're doing a really good job they have i don't know that i've ever seen the amount of new membership sign up in such a short relatively short period of time that we've seen since Don's been there. I mean, he's really doing a great job, which I know is the bloodline to the organization to begin with. So that's great. Art House, Vice Mayor Tracy Groves.

So their biggest fundraiser, the Fun and Funky event, was... Last week, we had honoring Buddy Davenport. It was a phenomenal event. They're, how would you say, recovering from the event. Fundraising was huge. We'll have the numbers here at the next committee report meeting, how that turned out. But one of the big things is to understand is when that event goes on, it actually pays for kids' scholarships. And the summer program is just amazing, what these kids get chances to do. There's only a handful of spots left. They're almost completely full. So if anybody's interested for summer camp programs for the kids, it's a phenomenal place to take them.

That's it. Anybody else have anything to come before us tonight?