Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'd like to call to order our August 17th work session at 6.30 PM. And Mr. Horton, you have the presentation this evening.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to cut right to the chase pretty much with the PowerPoint presentation. And depending on how many people show up between now and then, we may be giving another one at the public hearing. This particular application is part of two applications. This first one is for the Bob Moses to Albert White property, 2701-00087 and 2701-000086. The proposal is to rezone it conditionally from village commercial to the R3 residential district for use as 28 duplex housing units subject to proffers offered by the applicants. On the heels of that is the application to amend the comprehensive plan future land use map in the 2018-2038 comprehensive plan from village commercial to high density residential for the same tax parcels I just referenced a minute ago. We are respectfully asking the Planning Commission to sort of consider these both together. We'll tell you that there are separate approval and denial resolutions just before the PowerPoint and the packet. Applications were advertised for public hearing in the Daily Press on August 5th and August 12th. Adjacent property owners were notified of the request on August 5th, 2026. Okay, these started properties are basically the properties we're talking about, 0086 and 0087. And you can see the aerial, and they are wooded, as they show right there. The site is, counting the two parcels, the site is about 5.123 acres on the two properties to the west of the EDA pond. It lies to the south of Alpha Street. The applicant has provided a concept layout of the property, which we'll cover, contained in his application materials. And I believe Mr. Moses, in a public hearing, is going to want to show his PowerPoint as well. Again, 14 two-story, two-family dwellings, 28 total. 5.123 actually, but it is approximately 5.03 acres. 60% green space is the proposal. About 45% outside of the setbacks. Impervious cover for storm warning usage of the pond is approximately 2.02 acres, and there are 58 parking spaces provided. These are some concept layouts of the duplexes and they are proffered to be true to this design. You can see one view right here and you can see another one. I guess the first one is more a look at the front and the back is the second one is more the reader. here's layout front rear of the duplex units and interior spacing of the units as well the applicant submitted the request is the condition rezoning if approved after your recommendation by City Council the new zoning of r3 would permit the duplexes The applicant is not required to go to the architectural review board for this because it's residential in nature. If it was commercial, that'd be a different ballgame. In light of this, Mr. Moses has added, as a proper condition, that the layout of all townhouse units, that should be duplex units, shall be consistent with the architectural drawings submitted by the applicants. properties are contained within the village commercial area on the comprehensive plan use future land use map if this conditional rezoning is recommended for approval of the city council an amendment to that land use map would be necessary to fulfill the intent to keep the city's zoning ordinance and comprehensive plan in alignment the consideration of a change in designation Other properties as presented as part of this request for purposes of clarity. Kind of put them both together because they are related. However, please note the two sets of separate motions, as I said at the beginning, for or against recommendations to the City Council. One concerning the conditional rezoning and one is for this comprehensive plan amendment. If the conditional rezoning is denied, the comprehensive plan would not need to be amended. it would still be, by not amending it, you would keep the comprehensive plan in step with the zoning. Submitted TIA includes a total of 55 units. 28 of the units are within this application as duplexes. The other units in the form of townhomes and a cafe restaurant are the subject of a separate application to be heard subsequent to this case. Access for the 28 duplex will extend from existing Alpha Street into the duplex development via roadway with gutters, which will be required to be built at a public road, meeting all standards for such. The applicant, per a second proctor, will grant a 20-foot-wide easement for connecting to the gun range parcel to the west. The parcel to the west is owned by Iowa LLC, and its tax payment number is 27-01-00-0092. Michael Bailey will be at this meeting should there be any questions about the TIA. In order to carry out this proposal, it will be necessary to vacate the interior boundary lines separating these two parcels and to improve Alpha Street to public street standards to the terminus of its entranceway into the duplex development. site plan is also required it must be approved along with meaning all applicable city land use provisions before any construction activities occur this is to include all permanent building code permits and provisions as required The two items, I've already covered these, but just to be complete, the following two items have been proffered by the applicants. A 20-foot wide easement for connecting to the gun range. This would go basically between the terminus of the public road going into the duplex development back towards the property owned by IFO. And the two family dwelling designs as presented are proffered as well. And again, as I said at the top, the Planning Commission is respectfully asked to consider both the rezoning, the conditional rezoning, and the comprehensive plan amendment as well. Again, the approval and denial resolutions for both are contained in the packet. At this point, I will be quiet and take any questions you have. why would the recommendation in the comprehensive plan be for high density residential wouldn't our three be considered more medium density or something along those lines or well what we consider a high density in in this city is is probably not what most cities would consider high density there are a lot of larger cities anyway I mean you know sometimes there you get high density residential that allows as much as you know, eight units per acre or more. But we called it high-density residential as a comp plan. You know, I understand your point, but obviously we're not going to allow eight units per acre.

I'm good. I'm good for now.

OK. Mr. Wharton, I think we are good for now. I do have some questions, but they are going to be towards the applicant.

Sure. Sure. Absolutely.

Appreciate you being here tonight and us. If Planning Commission has no other further comments,

7 p.m. when our public hearings can be conducted so with that being said any okay well we've got one more to go through all right one more one more one more let's say let me get the proper PowerPoint presentation up here oh yeah Hmm. Hang with me just a moment. I'm having a momentary, uh... Yeah.

Okay.

This one's, uh, I believe Mr. Moses is... Hold on just a moment. I'm sorry. Child's ominous. Okay, second one. This is covering two different parcels. Again, part of a separate application. These are parcels 27-10-000005. And 2709-00-002. Mr. Horton. Yes.

Could you enlarge that for us so that it's a little bit easier to read?

I didn't put it on slideshow. My mistake. I'll do that real quick. Sorry about that. Thank you. I apologize. Okay. Okay, conditional rezoning request from Bob Moses representing the Fountains of Pocosin. Again, to conditionally rezone 27-10-0005 and 27-09-00-0002. Gonna go two ways on this. The total of the properties is 4.036 acres. 2.916 acres are proposed for going to the residential district. The remainder of approximately 1.12 acres is proposed to go into the B2, conditional rezoning again, to the B2 district for a cafe restaurant. Like the last application that I went over, the request to amend the comprehensive plan from Village Commercial to High Density Residential and to general commercial where the proposal is to rezone to be two. And I think by illustration here, of course they were both advertised for public hearing, but I think my illustration will point it out. We're talking about these two properties. and really that front part denoted by the uh yellow square and shaded is the area that's going to go to b2 the rest of it is going to be it's proposed to go to r3 for townhomes the south the the area does a lot south south street the applicants provided a concept layout in the PowerPoint presentation he intends to present but I've got part of it here 27 townhouses on the east side of the EVA pond you can see that there's five units that's going to encompass those 27 townhomes 47% green space total impervious area for stormwatering usage of the pond is about 1.5 4 acres showing 74 parking spaces golf court emergency vehicle access to the commercial parcel that's what you see I don't really have a good clicker with me but that's what you see over towards the the left side going into the commercial area that is going to be paved by the way which is really what it needs to be if it's going to be a functional commercial entrance access. These are some pictures of the townhomes. They look a lot like the duplexes. Not sure why that's true, but anyway. Okay, those are the architectural renderings. Knows with the inside and this is a his proposed cafe. You'll notice that the restaurant is showing as a total of 7,000 square feet the applicant is proffering a 3,500 square foot footprint To to go into that Be to maximum height is 35 feet so obviously You know, he's going to really have to, I mean, a third floor would be tough, but a second floor is certainly more plausible. These are some proposed architectural features of the cafe restaurant. I want to say that these features are not property. Okay, so the applicant is presenting this request as a condition to rezoning. If it's approved by the Citadel Council after recommendation of Planning Commission, the new zoning of R3 and B2 would permit the townhouses and the cafe restaurant. The applicant will be required, he will be required to go to the Architectural Review Board in this case because the front part of the property will be zoned commercial B2. Mr. Moses has added as a property condition that the layout and all the cafe and the cafe restaurant shall be consistent with the architectural drawings submitted by the applicant. He has also proffered that the size will be at least 3,500 square feet in size, not 3.5, 3,500 square feet in size, and that the exterior shell for the building will be built before proceeding with construction of the first. townhouse building. I want to make a correction in there. I'm not sure that he's proper to lay out of the restaurant. I'll have to go over the proffers when we get to them. uh the properties are contained within the village commercial area on the comprehensive planning future landing land use map if this conditional rezoning is approved obviously we'll have to go to general commercial for the b2 area and uh to r3 high density residential for the townhouse area townhome area um and that will keep it in line with the comp with comprehensive that will keep the comprehensive plan if i can get that out the comprehensive plan in accord with the zoning ordinance uh obviously if this is not recommended for approval then a revision to the comprehensive plan would not be needed because that would in turn be out of step with the zoning ordinance Site is accessed directly from a combination of Wythe Creek Road and Alpha Street. Although there is an extension access depicted in the concept layout plan, most of the entranceway off Wythe Creek Road would immediately serve the proposed B2 Cafe restaurant. The applicant did mention the encouragement of golf carts, which may utilize the access between the townhomes and the cafe restaurant, but not on the streets. Golf carts are not allowed on the streets. The applicant has stated that access will be paid with a suitable service to allow for emergency use. Any use of golf carts shall be in conformance with Chapter 78, Article 7, which regulates the operation of golf carts. city code and TIA I think we've already pretty much covered that this is the mirror image of the last one that included 28 this includes 27 townhomes and the the cafe restaurant we did or I did include an executive summary in your packet the entire TIA is with you tonight. And like I said, Mike Bailey will be here to answer any questions. Much like the last proposal, it will be necessary to vacate interior property lines between the tax map parcels to separate the property being conditionally rezoned to R3 from Village Commercial from the property to be conditionally rezoned to B2 from Village Commercial. site plan is also required must be approved along with meeting all applicable city land use provisions before any construction activities incurred occur including property conditions and that includes all building code permits and all applicable codes as required Okay, here's the offered profits. B2U's will be a cafe restaurant. Okay, so it is proper to be a cafe restaurant, but design is not proper. Would have a minimum footprint of 3,500 square foot. Townhouse designs as presented. The cafe building exterior shell will be constructed prior to proceeding with construction of the first townhome building. I didn't really understand four very well. Perhaps the applicant can clear that up at the public hearing, but states mow the grass along the walking trail by the EDA pond that borders these parcels, as shown. Our note would be that additional work needs to be done on this proffer prior to the city council public hearing to clarify the meaning of this proffer. You know, if it's going to be property that he's rezoning that he owns now, we have city code maintenance provisions that require that the grass be cut below 12 inches in height. but obviously if he's talking about the EDA, and he did not cite the EDA parcel number in this proffer, but if he's talking about that, of course, that's property owned by somebody else and not a part of this rezoning. So we'll just need a little bit of clarity on that, and normally we wouldn't get that clarity before the Planning Commissioner, City Council, but I think in this case we can probably straighten that out. again the Planning Commission is respectfully asked to consider both the reconditional rezoning and comprehensive plan amendment together the approval and now resolutions for both are contained in your packet questions I don't have any questions

It's clear that the cafe is new from the last time we heard this matter. Correct. Have other details shifted going through it?

Well, certainly there are a lot less townhouse units than was proposed last time around because you've got some area that's going for the cafe restaurant, about 1.12 acres. So there is a decrease there. The previous freezing applications that I talked about is basically the same as last time. Great. Thank you. No further.

Mr. Horton, can you go back to the site map? And you mentioned the golf cart. Yes, sir. highlight that or kind of point that out?

Yeah, let me point it out. I won't talk while I'm away, but let me point it out on the map for you.

That would be hard to do.

I'm not going to talk.

right there that continues on back to the uh that continues on back to the townhouse parking area and to the left is that uh right there gray yeah that is going to be the cafe restaurant parking spaces

I believe he's showing 47 are provided.

Does this depict access off with Creek?

It does. Right there.

That would be in and out, ingress, egress?

That would be in and out, yes.

Molly, with all of the applications related to this, because we have different ones, obviously, what is the total ask of homes? Are there duplexes, or what is the total ask?

There's going to be 28 duplexes, 27 townhomes, and a cafe restaurant.

And the applicant, based off of his plans, and I can also ask him this, is assured that he has enough parking for all of this?

Well, parking will, of course, be looked at in the context of a site plan. And staff would make sure that there's enough parking by our zoning ordinance regulations. Anything further, probably the applicant can answer that.

The rest of my questions, again, will be geared to the applicant and the traffic impact. OK? OK. Questions of planning commission this evening? All we have to consider in our work session tonight, Wally?

That's it. Okay.

We're going to stand in adjournment for five minutes until 7 p.m.

Very good.

Now call to order the August 17th meeting of the Bocosin Planning Commission. Roll call, please.

Commissioner Armentrout?

Present.

Commissioner Hartley? Present. Commissioner Hirsch? Present. Commissioner Peterson? Present. Vice Chairman Yeager? Present. Chairwoman Schott?

Present.

A quorum is present.

Thank you. We're going to pause for just a moment while the public comes in.

Yes.

all those who have just come into the room this evening if you are planning on speaking tonight at our one of our public hearings could you please see our clerk to register so we can capture your comments in an orderly fashion additionally if you're here in support of something you may stand if you do not wish to speak

if you're able will you stand this evening as we pray as well as say our Pledge of Allegiance let us pray as we begin this meeting we ask for wisdom and clarity in the work before us help us approach each matter with open minds thoughtful consideration and a willingness to understand different perspectives may we work together in a spirit of unity and respect remembering the responsibility we share to those we serve God our conversations strengthen our judgment and help us make decisions that will serve the best interests of our community now in the years ahead amen mr. Almerchuk one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We're going to move on our agenda a little bit further down. We're gonna move to item C, which is our approval of minutes. We have two sets of minutes to approve this evening, both from July the 20th.

First is for our work session minutes. Are there any changes that Planning Commission would like to make? Seeing none, do I have a motion to approve?

Motion to approve.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Roll call, please. Commissioner Armantrout.

Abstain.

Commissioner Hartley.

Aye.

Commissioner Hirsch.

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson. Aye. Vice Chairman Yeager. Aye. Chairwoman Schatz.

Aye.

Motion passes. Thank you.

Next, we have our regular session minutes from July the 20th. Any other commissioners have any changes that need to be made this evening? Seeing none, do I have a motion?

Motion to approve.

Second. Roll call, please. Commissioner Armantrout.

Abstain.

Commissioner Hartley. Aye. Commissioner Hirsch.

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson. Aye. Vice Chairman Yeager. Aye. Chairwoman Schott. Aye. The motion passes.

Thank you.

we have quite a few items on our public hearings this evening but before we go there we do have an opportunity for the audience for visitors and what this specifically is is an opportunity for you to come and talk to planning commission about items not related to one of the six public hearings this evening if you wish to speak can you come forward to the podium and state your name and address please seeing none I'm going to close the audience for visitors and we are going to start into our public hearings and item number one this evening is on a comprehensive plan amendment to address the big woods if We are carrying forward our public hearing from last meeting and at that time I read a statement that I'd like to read this evening for those that are present if planning commission allows me to do so. This was shared at the last meeting of the Commission and I wanted to share this again. The Planning Commission has been reviewing portions of the comprehensive plan over the last several months and in many respects over the last several years. Under state code, we are required to review the comprehensive plan at least once every five years. throughout the process the importance of preserving the character of our community understanding the needs and most importantly considering the concerns and input of all stakeholders including the city council our citizens and city staff before we begin the discussion this evening i would like to remind the public what was stated at that last meeting concerning this before us this evening is a proposed comprehensive plan amendment concerning the north side of Victory Boulevard I want to emphasize that this is not a zoning ordinance action or any other regulatory action the comprehensive plan which I have in front of me establishes a vision and provides guidance for how an area may develop in the future what is shown in the plan may or may not occur The comprehensive plan is a guidance document. It is not regulatory. It is also worth noting, remembering back to 2025, the planning commission voted six to zero, followed by an action of city council who voted seven to zero to eliminate the provisions of the city code that allowed someone to submit a development similar to legacy under what is commonly known as plan unit development mixed-use a copy of the council's minutes in which that was adopted are on file with our clerk this evening I also want to be clear that there is no submission development plan or proposal for a mixed-use development similar to legacy on the north side of Victory Boulevard as this is allowed not allowed in our city code The area we are discussing is zoned R1 residential and has been for decades. Under that existing zoning, a property owner could submit a plan for single family residential development in the future, just as property owners have had the ability to do for generations. finally I want our citizens to know that city staff members of the Planning Commission and City Council are available to listen we encourage citizens who have concerns and questions or ideas to reach out to us and share them public input as we see this evening is an important part of this process and we want to hear from our community as we consider the future So with that being said, we're going to move into public hearing number one, and that is our comprehensive plan amendment to address the Big Woods. Mr. Horton.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Get oriented here, sorry. I think I know what happened. Okay, I know what I did wrong. Sorry about that. Okay, this has been a rather long process. I think it's fair to say. I'm going to start off by sort of reframing where we are so that everybody can follow along, either here or at home. this is the north side of victory as it currently exists a lot of woods there there's general commercial zoning indicated by I'll call it purple R&D indicated in the blue and R1 indicated in the beige sort of color There's 56.6 is zoned R&D. 56.6.5 acres zoned general commercial. I think I said 56.6. I meant 56.5 for zoned R&D. 97 acres zoned R1. And for context, the entirety of the legacy of the coast and development is about 100 acres. So it's a pretty big area we're talking about. Just a little bit of history here, on February 10th, 2025, the city council adopted a vision statement containing specific strategic initiatives. Strategic initiative one states as one of these, quote, conduct a careful review of the city's comprehensive plan and supporting ordinances, prioritizing the north side of Victory Boulevard, followed by an evaluation of the city's central business district, unquote. After initiating work on amending the comprehensive plan at a joint session on June 21st, 2025, the Pagosa City Council on February 9th, 2026, adopted Resolution 5404, directing that the comprehensive plan be amended to include the following items, which I'll cover here, related to the north side of Victory Boulevard as recommended by the Planning Commission on December 5th, 2015. As the Chairwoman stated, the Planning Commission did hold a public hearing on July 20, 2026, which was held open to allow for legally required advertising which had a correct date of initiation, and that is June 21, 2025. Okay, so tenet number one. The Planning Commission elaborated on Big Woods North distinctions by recommending references to the Big Woods North residential and Big Woods North commercial. The distinction is made apart from the reference in the comp plan to the Big Woods. Description in chapter four. talk about area the zoning districts the pluses and the minuses for development which I have not talked to about yet but there are their public units available however road access to our wind properties is restricted by commercially zoned parcels of about a hundred and thirteen acres with frontage on Victory Boulevard may need a creation of new public streets. There are environmental challenges, wetlands, flood, those type of things. Big Woods North Area, no mixed use, and this is following up on what the chairwoman said earlier, no mixed use as the planned unit development mixed use overlay district has been deleted by city council on April 14th, 2025. Commercial development along Victory Boulevard is subject to conditional use permit requirements for certain uses unless they are specifically prohibited. This is different than B2, where there's significantly less conditional use permits. The City of Pocahontas, or the Economic Development Authority, owns several parcels in the Big Woods, most notably proximate to City Hall Avenue. The ADA parcels do, by zoning ordinance, have prohibitions on uses that are fully residential in nature, including single-family homes, apartments, townhomes, and condominiums. The ADA parcels are not to be developed in pieces. general commercial zoning requirements chapter 8 referring to the Big Woods commercial area proposed commercial development in Big Woods should be permitted with attention to controlled street access and we mentioned three places City Hall Avenue Legacy Boulevard and Big Woods Drive utilization of principles of better design as I pointed out in the last meeting several books on that a lot of books on that enhanced landscaping in green areas architectural control guidelines overlay to guide aesthetics form and appearance aside from the EDA properties which I talked about need to be coordinated developed in the coordinated fashion the proposed language in Chapter four will be as follows the city encourages private property owners to develop the area and a complimentary design concept rather than a series of independent developments quite honestly whether that happens or not is really up to the independent property owners Any traffic in R1 zone properties, Big Woods North Residential, for by-right development in accord with all zoning district regulations should be off of existing public streets and should be focused on areas where existing frontage is available or can be acquired for a new street access and, in any case, should require a traffic impact analysis for review in order to ensure efficient traffic flow. The City Council directed on motion from Council Member Freeman at the February 9th, 2026 meeting that all references to roads be deleted, specifically Yorktown Road and Oakmoor. Therefore, Chapter 8 includes language identical to number 3, which we just went over. Traffic and... In cases where R1 properties are landlocked or where no access exists or can be created, access to a new development from a new public street off of Victory Boulevard should be in the ownership of the developer at the time of application, B, be limited to the new public street. C, be focused towards existing intersections, such as we mentioned earlier, City Hall Avenue, Legacy Boulevard, and Big Woods Drive. And, of course, require traffic impact analysis for review. In Chapter 8, the text is proposed as identical to what I've just read off. The research and development district in the Big Woods commercial area should be re-designated in favor of general commercial in 2018-2013 comprehensive future land use map. We do not have a B2 category of comp plan-wise. It's all general commercial, which is a little bit confusing because we have a general commercial zoning district, but we also have a designation of general commercial in the comp plan. Chapter 4, this plan envisions the elimination of the research and development designation in favor of general commercial designation on future land use map in the 2018-2038 comprehensive plan. Properties are described as Big Woods North Commercial. Just as a little bit of background on this one, as stated in 11.2-1 of the zoning ordinance, the first sentence notices that the intent of the research development office district is to encourage quality light industrial manufacturing and office uses within the big woods. The conditions bringing about this zoning district simply have not materialized. The long-term prospectus is for development away from the uses permitted within R&D and more towards the uses permitted in general commercial zoning district. So again, this plan recommends the elimination of the, envisions the elimination of the R&D district in favor of general commercial. That would give us a future land use map that will look a little bit like this. You'll see that these colors are a little bit deceiving. But the general commercial was the first color, slightly purple in tinge, I guess. And as the planned unit development has been limited, you'll notice there's no crosshatch lines over that either. Steps after this meeting will be continuing of the Planning Commission public hearing held open on July 20th, which we're doing now, followed by a recommendation to the city council. And I do have approval and denial of recommendations in your packet just after this PowerPoint presentation. And then we'll go to city council, and there'll be city council action on the proposed changes public hearing as well. We're looking first at language specific to the north side. We'll move after that to the central business district area in accord with city council's strategic initiative number one. After this, an update of the entire comprehensive plan will be necessary over the next one to two years to square any language changes with the remainder of the plan along with updates. Prime example, Legacy is almost completed. The comprehensive plan currently treats it like it's something coming in the future. This will include updated demographics. And at that point, I'll be quiet and take any questions you might have.

Questions? Thank you, Mr. Horton.

Seeing no questions, the Planning Commission, I am going to open the public hearing portion of our meeting. Currently, I do not have any slips filled out for anyone to speak regarding this this evening. Doesn't mean you can't still speak. If you'd like to speak regarding this, you can come up to the microphone, state your name and address. Seeing no one, I'm going to close the public hearing and ask for a motion from Planning Commission.

Motion to approve. Second.

Second.

Can I have a roll call, please? Commissioner Armantrout?

Aye.

Commissioner Hartley?

Aye.

Commissioner Hirsch?

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson?

Aye.

Vice Chairman Yeager? Aye. Chair Milchak?

Aye.

The motion passes.

Thank you. I'm going to move now to public hearing number two, an application to conditionally rezone two tax parcels. And Mr. Horton. Thank you.

There's a lot of new people in here from the work session, so if you don't mind, I will go through the PowerPoint again. Oh, let me just get a minute to get set up here. This pops. Oh, that's the second one. I'm sorry. Okay, for tonight. The request, as I stated earlier, is an application to conditionally rezone tax map parcels 2701-00-087, I promise not to repeat that, and 2701-00-0086 from V.C. Village Community to the R3 Residential District for use as 28 duplex housing units, subject to proffers offered by the applicants. On the tail of this and sort of wrapped together with this report is an application to amend the comprehensive plan future land use map in 2018-2038 comprehensive plan for village commercial to a high density residential for tax map parcels 0087 and 0086. And I didn't go to a slideshow, I apologize. Okay. I don't know why this is not wanting to go to a slideshow. It's kind of weird. I don't know what, I wouldn't get to a slideshow, gang. But I can get around it in another way if I have to. There we go. Okay, the applications were advertised for public hearing in a daily press on August 5th and August 12th, 2026. Adjacent property owners were notified of this request by letters mailed on August 5th. These stored properties indicate that the properties that are subject to this conditional rezoning, you can see in Ariel that they're both well wooded.

Mr. Horton. Yes. It is not showing on the screen up there. It's not changing. Huh. Okay.

Well, let's see what we can do about that. This is a All right, let me back up. I'm sorry, guys. What I'm trying to do is get this into a PowerPoint. Yeah.

Well, now it's up. OK.

Good, you have the tongue the right way. Thanks, Chase. Okay, here's the aerials. You can see the EDA pond a little bit to the east. The site is a total of about 5.123 acres on the two properties to the west of the ADA pond, 086 and 087. And live to the south of Alpha Street, the applicant has provided a concept layout of the property contained in his application materials, which he intends to present as well, but I will present it right here. 14 two-story, two-family dwellings, 28 total units, 5.123 to be exact, but approximately 5.03 is correct. A probability 60% green space total and approximately 45% outside of the setbacks. And pervious cover for stormwater use of the pond is approximately 2.02 acres, and there are 58 parking spaces depicted. These are some designs for the duplexes. That's the front view. That would be the rear view. There's the front facade and the rear and the interior. applicant has submitted the request as a conditional rezoning if it's approved by city council after the planning commission makes recommendation the new zoning of r3 would permit the duplexes the applicant was not required to go to the architectural review board for this because it's a residential it's residential it's not commercial um In light of this, Mr. Moses has added as a proffered condition that the layout and all should be duplex units shall be consistent with the architectural drawings submitted by the applicant. properties are contained within the village commercial area on the comprehensive plan future land use map if this conditionally used rezoning is recommended for approval of the city council an amendment to that land use map will be necessary to fulfill the fulfill the intent to keep the zoning ordinance and a comprehensive plan in alignment The consideration of a change in the designation of the properties from village commercial to a high-density residential, again, as I stated earlier, is presented as part of this request for purposes of clarity. However, please note the two sets of separate motions for or against recommendation to the City Council, one concerning the conditional rezoning and one for the comprehensive plan amendment. If the conditional rezoning is recommended for now, the comprehensive plan would not need to be amended because it's already in alignment with the zoning ordinance. TIA includes a total of 55 units, of which 28 are represented in this application as part of the duplexes. The other units, which we'll get to shortly, in the form of townhomes and a cafe restaurant in a different case, are the subject of a separate application to be heard later tonight. Access for duplexes will extend from existing Alpha Street into the duplex development via a roadway with gutters which will be required to be built as a public street. Public road meeting all standards for such. The applicant for proffer number two will grant a 20 foot wide easement for connection. Now this is at the end of where that public road will go into the actual duplex development. uh will add a 20 foot wide easement for connection to the gun range parcel to the west which is owned by iowa llc and its text now pin number is 2701-00-0092 michael bailey will be at the planning commission and i believe he is uh should there be any questions about the tia In order to carry out this proposal, it will be necessary to vacate interior boundary lines and to improve Alpha Street to public street standards to determinants of its entranceway into the duplex development. Site plan is also required and must be approved along with meeting all applicable city land use provisions before any construction activities occur. This, of course, includes building code permits and provisions as required. The following two items have been proffered by the applicants. A 20-foot wide easement for connection to the gun range parcel to the west. Two family dwelling designs as presented. The Planning Commission, again, is respectfully asked to consider both the conditional rezoning and comprehensive plan amendment. The approval and denial resolutions for both are contained in the packet. I'll take any questions.

Who would be responsible for the improvement of Alpha Street?

That would be the applicant.

Thank you, Wally.

All right. Planning Commission's desire, I know Mr. Moses had a PowerPoint he wanted to present as well.

Certainly. I'm happy to hear that presentation this evening. My request would be to highlight also the changes, because we had heard that back in February, something similar to this.

All right, let me pull that one up here. Mr. Moses, you'll need to present this, but I'll get you started with a slideshow. This is actually a PDF. Let me go to the PowerPoint. Wow.

Hmm.

Okay, Bob, we got you sorted.

Audience and on TV, thank you for coming to this hearing tonight.

I'd like to summarize the difference between this presentation and the one in February is nothing other than clarifying a few points. It's still the same duplexes, the same street, the same improvements to Alpha Street that then converts over to a 20-foot easement into the gun range. Everybody hear that? You want me to repeat it? So between the February hearing and tonight, There was a lot of communications held with the city staff, city manager and so forth to just get clarity from you all in city council on what needed this. What did this side of the pond need to look like? And one of the feedback I got from the city manager and Mr. Horton is try to be as far away from the gun range building as possible. And we're about 100 feet from that. So I'll walk through this presentation and then answer any questions you have. So as Mr. Horton mentioned, we want to rezone and do a map, a memo, and a comprehensive plan from Village Commercial for the rezonings to R3 for two family dwellings. For the comprehensive plan, it would be designated as high density residential. That's really the only designation for the R3 in the rezoning into the comprehensive plan. But as I'll show, we're nowhere near the maximum on the density allowed for the R3. Again, these are the two parcels to the west of the pond. The owner of 86 is Mr. White, who's present tonight I'm the owner of 87 and it runs the whole length of the pond as well as up to Alpha Street. Just some regulations here. 35 foot height to the mid roof for the buildings. The R3 allows up to 12 units per acre maximum. We're nowhere near that amount. It's a 20 foot setback from the rear property line to the back of the building or the roof and then 20 foot between buildings. just in general uh landscaping buffer in the rear of the buildings or other considerations uh we'd like to do individual trash cans rather than a dumpster and then in terms of the fire truck being able to maneuver at the end of the long driveway we've added a roundabout or not uh yeah a cul-de-sac we've also are going to extend alpha street to the proposed access and then again we will extend that on to the gun range with the with the uh a 20-foot driveway easement. And then the other consideration, this is different than what I presented last time, is that we try to maximize the buffer adjacent to the gun range parcel. I've met with the owner. He assures me there's not going to be any noise to worry about on my property based on his building designs that he's hoping to put forward. The proposed floor plans that I'll show, and Wally's shown this, is two-family dwellings or duplexes on the west side of the pond. They're 31 feet deep, going from the street, you know, front yard to the backyard, and then 85 foot wide, and this is the same as last time. They're two-story. They meet the height requirements. There's no garage. It's a main floor master suite. They meet the setbacks, and again, it maximizes the bar between the dwelling and the gun range. So... These are the two parcels again. Now we're looking at it at landscape mode rather than portrait mode. And here's the gun range over here. So taking these two parcels and laying out a site plan on those, the new road and the cul-de-sac would basically come down the middle of the two parcels. We'd have duplexes on both sides. And Just want to point out that based on the gun range having a 50-foot easement on its own property from where it can build, and then the 46 feet to the back of the first duplex, it's about 96 feet or 95 feet. I've looked at other gun ranges. There's one in Virginia Beach. I think it's called Freedom. The building is above ground, actually, and there's a residential single-family neighborhood. The back door is a lot closer than this. And I think that's been presented in the past by the gun range people. This just shows a blow up of that in terms of the dimensions. This gives a little color to it, separated different pieces or squares and boxes on here. The green is of course the grass and the landscaping and then we've got the building footprint and then the drives and the parking areas. So 14 two-story buildings, 28 total units. It's about a little over five acres. It's 60% green space. The green is about 60% of the total area of the two parcels. The amount of that that doesn't count the 20-foot setbacks in the rear and so forth is about 45% of the total space. Now, this is five acres. Five times 12 is 60 units. I'm only doing 28, so by right, R3, I would be able to put 60 units here. That's not what I want to do, and I don't think you want me to do that either. This is some facades. We've tried to change up the dormers, the gables, the front entrance, and so forth between adjacent buildings. Again, these are conceptual looks, and my anticipation is the building plans will be very similar. That's the front view. And then the backyards, a lot of outdoor living is intended. And these just give you wireframe plans. Front is on the top and the back is in the bottom. And in terms of the floor plans, very spacious open floor plan is two stories. The downstairs is on the top view. And then the upstairs in the bottom view, three bedrooms. i mentioned earlier by code i'd be allowed 60 units but we're only trying to do 28 so we're we're less than half the maximum we're 5.6 units per acre traffic impact assessment mr bailey's here to address any questions you have but it's the same impact as last time no improvements are required on alpha street to accommodate the proposed two family dwellings other than extending alpha street over to the front but the new interest in and and That will be included on the site plan that's going to be reviewed. In terms of a 20 foot wide easement that would pick up after the entrance, the entrance would be down the middle. After the entrance of that, that would have to be determined based on what the site plans look like for the gun range. So we'd try to match up to that with a 20 foot driveway. Um, and then likely be paid because it would be for emergency vehicles and questions and answers.

Sharp trap.

On the other parcel, there was some accommodations for golf cart traffic. Is there something back in these parcels as well for that?

Well, that's a good question. So let me go back to this one. I could envision the owners here owning golf carts, and they could come around the pond on the walking trail and drive right on over to the— There'll be an easement along the townhouses, which I'll get to, and then the access that goes right to the cafe restaurant. So we envision that if it's permitted, it has to be permitted according to the ordinance, but I could see where golf cart and foot traffic already walks around the pond. So if golf cart traffic is also allowed to go around the pond, then they could easily get to the cafe from these two parcels, and from Legacy.

Mr. Moses, thank you for your presentation tonight. Can you go back to the picture that illustrates the front of the duplex? So there's a couple cars parked in front.

Is that or would they be on the side or both? The actual parking spaces are between the buildings on the side. Yeah, I don't know if they're parked or moving.

Okay. But I guess then the follow-up question to that would be, will parking be allowed? Because it won't allow. It's not wide enough. And how many parking spots would be at each end, are you proposing?

We have 58 parking spaces for 28 units. And so you can see the parking spaces here. There's two for this unit, two for this, two for that one, and so forth. But there are extra ones added in certain places. So if there was two per, it'd be 56. So we're allowed two additional. And the site designers here to answer any questions as well. But I think we exceed or meet the parking requirement.

And the turnaround will be no parking as well, I assume?

That's correct. We anticipate full use by the fire truck or whatever emergency vehicles or anyone wanting to turn around. We're after the clean look. that this presents rather than having to look like it's a lot of cars there now maybe during hurricane season we might get a few more visitors than normal but so does food alliance so one of my concerns when you came in february and it's still my concern today is the traffic impact of this with

One proposal is a four-bedroom home, if I read correctly in the notes, and one is a three-bedroom for a total of 55 units is what you're proposing with everything combined. Is that correct?

We use for this application 27 is or the other or the other.

Right. But I'm saying that he is part of all of that. So for this, my my concerns still exist on at the end of office. I remember that when the traffic impact study was done previously, I was told that with Creek Road did not have a whole lot of traffic going down during that time, but here's the concern with that there's not a whole lot of traffic going down with creek road right now because of the construction at the new bridge and it being 35 mile an hour so if you go building more houses back there there's going to be a traffic impact with the inclusion of Langley Federal Credit Union an eatery that's a little bit further down or a commercial space I don't know what that is I don't have names of that as well as this that's my concern is the residents turn out on office and things of that nature that hasn't changed

Correct. And Mike Bailey is here to address any particular concerns about the traffic impact. Thank you.

Another question, Mr. Mose. Before you go, I apologize. It's no longer an Act of 55. Correct. That's been omitted.

The feedback I got was don't do the age restriction. So I removed it. OK. Just wanted to make sure. You're right. That's the second change.

OK. And then I guess a follow up, as far as a community building that would be associated with this development, would there be any type of community building or community center that residents of this neighborhood, if you will, be able to attend or go to?

didn't include one on this side of the pond there's one proposed on the other side of the pond that we can make available to these is that what you're thinking that yeah also think the community is going to have their their monthly meetings or whenever at the restaurant cafe is my guess thank you do you anticipate another traffic light there

It's probably a good time for me to jump in. My name's Mike Bailey. I'm the traffic engineer. I'd be glad to answer your question, Chad. I'll start with you and kind of work my way back. No, it doesn't meet signal warrants. So there's one there's no need for a traffic signal there. Also, it wouldn't meet the signal warrants for traffic signal.

So you've heard my concern and we met previously in March and one of the things you said at that time was Well, there's not a whole lot of traffic going down with Creek Road and I thought about it after the fact and I thought well That's really odd because with Creek Road is you know a major third. Yes well You know, there's a lot of road construction going on there. Personally, me, I don't take my vehicle down there because it's bumpy and it needs to be paved, but it's going to be great once it's done. And I'm super excited about it. So I guess my concern is until we know what that traffic is and with this whole is holistically, I'm looking at all all pieces of this, not just this application, but all that's in front of me tonight regarding to Mr. Moses.

Mm hmm.

That's That's a lot of traffic coming there, and we already have a traffic issue.

So if I may, a lot is somewhat subjective, right? So we compared the traffic data that we collected with VDOT historic counts. So the counts were not shown to be artificially high or low detours, things of that nature. That is something that we checked originally. There's about 10,000 trips per day that use Whitt Creek. It is the main way in and out, as you're aware. So we calibrate the model when we do that based on the historic ADTs with VDOT. So I don't know if you have it in your packet in front of you.

I do.

OK. So if you look at the trip generation, I can tell you what page that's on, it'll tell you precisely what the single family, or not single family, but the multifamily homes are producing. That is going to be page 11 of the TI itself. So for the 55 homes, and I know that this is sort of maybe kind of conflating and spilling over into the other case a little bit or combining them, but all residential units will use Alphas. So it's important distinction to make. So all 55 units. But you're talking about, if you look at that table, the top line where it says single family attached housing, you've got seven coming in in the morning, 19 leaving, 18 entering in the PM peak hour, and 13 leaving. So I would not say that's a lot of traffic.

OK. Seven coming in in the morning.

Vehicles, yes.

OK. But what we're proposing is going to be more than seven vehicles. That's not correct.

Yeah. Maybe I'm not following your question.

I'm looking at not currently. Correct. But I'm looking at in the future.

These are the proposed trips generated by the site. That's the site trip generation at that table. And that's based on data from the 70s to current.

The 70s.

From the 70s to current. It's an ongoing 50 years of data.

I understand. But you're talking about building more homes that are going to be utilizing one way in and one way out.

Correct.

And you're telling me that there's a minute amount of cars coming out of there?

That's correct. So what I'm telling you is on top of the existing traffic, the proposed site would add the 7, 19, 18, and 13 that we just discussed.

During that short period of time?

During the peak hour.

That's a two hour walk, correct?

So when I say the peak hour, there's an AM and a PM. It's effectively rush hour. We look at the worst case scenario.

hours on each end, AM and PM.

Yeah, 7 to 9 and 4 to 6. And then within that data set, we pick the highest interval. And that's what we base the analysis off of. So residential trips are extremely what we call peak heavy, meaning everybody typically leaves for work in the morning around the same time. excuse me, they come home around the same time. So they they tend to like schools, right? They kind of let in and take in and let out of bed together. So this is what you would expect from 55 homes that are not, you know, 55 and up age restricted.

Yes, sir. It's conceivable, I think, from Alpha Street will eventually be connected. Okay. you know I know it's not in place now I think for Heather's concern for their madam chair you know it's future traffic through there I know you're working your numbers on current but the potential for how many homes are in legacy right now three but a lot of folks are going to start finding their way through Alpha Street and I'm not sure that your numbers are

coming in play with any of that future traffic yeah I can speak to that no the future connection I was not made aware of any plans for a future connection I don't know if the the city has a study or any sort of plans and development for that but I was unaware of of that does this does the city have anything in development for connection through there well there's discussion and you know already tonight about

I don't know that there's any plans, but it

So we do add a background growth rate to account for ancillary development in the area, if you will, and we base that off historic trends. If there was going to be a direct connection from a large development, especially if it were commercial or something like that, then yes, I would anticipate that that would have a measurable impact on the area. But without that information, it's too nebulous to make any sort of decision. I don't think there's any numbers to take into effect is the point I'm trying to make with it, sir. Any other questions?

to clarify that mr. raffles when he got approval for its conditional use there was no provision for a public street access off of City Hall Avenue right it's going to be like a 20-foot easement but it's not going to be a public road it's not there's not gonna be a road there

And from a capacity standpoint, keep in mind that the trips from the site, excuse me, they're commingled with the existing food line shopping center trips. You know, those are your existing counts that we took. There's a lot of existing or remaining capacity even after we did the build condition with the site trips with all 55 units. So the gun range, I wouldn't anticipate that being a very large generator. I don't have those numbers in front of me. But I wouldn't anticipate hundreds of vehicles per hour coming in and out of the gun range. So it should be a negligible impact. Any other questions?

So he mentioned the cafe as a possibility down the road. Will there be access from, did your study look at With Creek to the cafe into the development or is that not fee that's not going to be feasible?

We're not we're not showing a connection so that would not be feasible. So all residential would use Alphas and then all the commercial the cafe trips if you would would use a dedicated entrance to the cafe on With Creek. Being commercial and residential we didn't want to commingle the trips.

Thank you. Questions? All right thank you for your time. Well, I have one other question. You are right that it is subjective, what's a lot of traffic, but what did you base Your thoughts or your data on as far as what's, you said it's not a lot of traffic. Was that based on a town like Newport News or Hampton? Or was it based on a smaller town?

I don't remember saying that it's not a lot of traffic. I'm saying that there's additional capacity. I do not think that this site generates a lot of traffic. But as far as the amount of traffic on Wythe Creek, 10,000. If you're in Northern Virginia, that's nothing. If you're in a more remote rural area, that could be a lot. That's the subjective part.

Thank you. All right. Thank you.

With that, we are proceeding into our public hearing. I have one individual who wishes to speak this evening, Mr. Schubert.

Good evening, commissioners, staff, neighbors. I am Paul Schubert. I reside at 102 Hudgens Road. I have general comments that relate to agenda items 2, 3, 4, and 5, so I'd appreciate your indulgence briefly. I'm happy to see that Mr. Moses and Mr. White have abandoned the concept of building for the 55-plus community that they brought to this body in February. In a word, stairs become a challenge as we all age. Two-story townhomes are not desirable. As Mr. Moses points out in his application, the demand for a Pocosin home is high. From my research, it is and has been high for many years. Property sales average a brief of 30 days on the market at a premium price. I'm curious to hear what the target market is, as these are relatively small townhouses at 1,300 square feet. I can imagine a young family will grow out of these quickly. Rhetorically, what's the target price? What's the HOA add-on fee to maintain the common areas such as the pond, the yard, and the clubhouse? Who will be expected to pay for a new roof in 20 years, the owners, the HOA? What will be the HOA covenants, conditions, and restrictions that run with the land? And why is there a clubhouse for just 55 units? As the argument for more residential property is made, which in turn requires more from city services, so then will the argument be made for higher taxes to pay for these services. The additional Pocosin residential revenue stream that this development would generate will be disproportionate to the value of the services needed. Commercial growth should remain and elevate to the highest priority for the city. Mr. Moses also points out that there is no commercial interest, yet Planet Fitness, Axe Place, TJ's Bar, and now Pangea provide a contradiction. Others will follow as we continue to make Pocosin the best it can be without sacrificing what we love about it. The long-time permanent residents will argue and claim to keep the Kosen as it was. From my perspective, that's a single family home with a detached garage and at least a third of an acre. These townhomes I find to be entry-level and utilitarian. If my younger self was in need of a starter home, I would look for amenities such as a fenced-in yard for the kids and the dog, some shade from a hot summer day, and a space inside to get away from the kids and the dog. Specifically to agenda items two and three, as this property is adjacent to the new gun range in the municipal center, I feel the village commercial zoning should be maintained and developed as such and not necessarily with the residential component. As an aside, I would hope that the architectural review board would be included to review and comment curb appeal or the lack thereof has a measurable impact on property values and economic development. I thank you all for your time and your indulgence.

Thank you. Mr. Schuber, just for clarity, you did speak on all items in one. Would you also like to be, because you marked two, three, and four. Absolutely. Just trying to get that clarity. Thank you, sir. have no one else that wishes to speak this evening regarding this one thing I would like to clarify before I see and I've seen the Facebook post we are here for zoning and we are here to for a comprehensive plan amendments I know there's been some conversation about a certain coffee shop going in here we're not cons that's not and mr horton i will i would like you to just to reiterate that what our role is with this that is that is correct we're just looking at a digital rezoning and a comp plan amendment tonight correct Thank you. So just for clarity's sake, that's all I have to speak. Would anybody else wish to speak this evening? Come on. Can you come up? Mr. Simpson, I need you to speak in the mic for the people at home. They can't hear you, and I want everybody to be able to hear you. Yes, you are.

First time. My only concern is this gentleman says something about the streets being too narrow. Nobody can park on the street. That is my only concern that needs to be looked at. If the streets are too narrow to park on the street, that's going to be a nightmare for normal families. Guests coming over Thanksgiving, the teenagers driving. It may be wide enough, but from what I heard, he said it's too narrow. That alone would concern me heavily. you're going to have a quagmire of problems in that neighborhood and people not buying and then traffic problems and everything else in the neighborhood. So that's all I have.

And for the record, can you state your name again?

Oh, Paul Stimson. I live on the boat, not a house, but yes.

That's okay. Thank you for speaking. Would anybody else like to speak this evening?

you could state your name please Cheryl Moses I live at 200 fountains Lane and lived in downtown Pocos in there for a while is wonderful place for residential and I think the new development with the duplexes and what we're going to speak on later plus the commercial funding is going to be really nice for the community and much less residential than the village commercial was with the apartment buildings like we have now so i feel like you know the feedback's been heard and this would be a really nice place for residences okay thank you anybody else seeing no one else i'm going to close the public hearing

Comments from Planning Commission? Start down at this end.

With all due respect, I appreciate everyone that wants to invest in our town. I know you've been here for a while. This just goes completely against everything that we've been building as far as getting rid of high density. We need more commercial here. There's been other developments that have

promised the whole commercial thing and nothing's happened and uh for other reasons before i just i just don't see that this uh benefits attack mr armatrout any comments um i was not in favor of reason this rezoning in february hopefully you know splitting the application in two and throwing a token um commercial parcel in really doesn't change my

Continued development of our central area is pretty challenging as puzzles go. And I appreciate that Mr. Mullis and Mr. White have worked hard to put together a viable solution that is walkable and higher density form of living that I think has a strong future in the community.

bringing that to us yeah I also think that I had objections in in February and I feel like the applicants have listened and resolved those objections in a way that I'm pleased with the direction it's gone. I do like the idea that we would have some walkable places to live as we continue to build out commercial in this area and I think it fits that scheme well and I actually could support this development.

I like the fact that you've made some adjustments from earlier in the year and I think there are positive adjustments that you've made. It's my understanding that you received approval back around 2012 for the village, hopefully I'm correct with that. It's my understanding at that time that the proposal had more housing units in it than what you've demonstrated tonight so far. I also like the fact that you're proffering the extension to the office, which I think at some point that that lane will be an important use from the emergency response personnel in our city. will be wide enough for them to traverse as they need. I do have concerns as I brought up about parking. I do scratch my head over the possibility of the homeowners, future homeowners maybe hearing the gun range. And to find out how that truly is gonna be would have to, when everything's built out, or would be built out, to know for sure. But, you know, just that this piece has been empty for quite some time other than phase one. And I personally think it would be a good thing

Do I have a motion?

I'll go ahead and ask that we make the motion to accept the proposal.

I have a second.

Second.

I have a roll call. Commissioner Armentrout?

Nay.

Commissioner Hartley?

Nay.

Commissioner Peterson?

Aye.

Vice Chairman Yeager?

Aye.

Chairwoman Schatz?

No.

Motion is denied. Oh, sorry. Commissioner Hirsch.

Aye.

OK. Motion is denied.

We don't have a majority recommending for or against, I guess, at this point. It's three to three, right? Correct.

I'd like to proceed.

Well, it looks like we'll hopefully have an odd number next month, and we'll have to get a recommendation from the Planning Commission one way or the other.

Okay, comp plan amendment or not?

Well, you have a rule of the comp plan amendment. Yeah, we'll go ahead and do that.

Okay, next item is going to be public hearing number three, the application to amend the Comprehensive Plan Land Use Act.

This was for one for 0086 and 0087. Correct. Yeah, gotcha. I've pretty much presented what I was going to present for that.

All right. Okay. No further presentation?

No.

Okay. Do you have a motion? I need to open the public hearing for this. Public hearing is open. Anybody wish to speak regarding this? It's already spoken. You can speak. Sure.

This is for the same two parcels, but for the comprehensive plan piece.

Comprehensive plan amendment.

Yes, I think Wally's already presented that and only had the one chart.

Okay, great. Thank you. Anybody else like to speak this evening? Seeing no one, I'm going to close the public hearing and ask the pleasure of the Planning Commission. Anybody like to make a motion? for public hearing item number four ma'am okay we're we're on three right now okay thank you thank you for clarifying motion I'll make the motion that we

up the resolution in favor conference a plan amendment okay may I have a second I'll second roll call Commissioner Armentrout a commissioner Hartley Mary Commissioner Hirsch I Commissioner Peterson I vice chairman Yeager I a woman shot no the motion is denied

now we're going to move to public hearing number four this evening three to three also yes yes correct motion is to nine Wally for item number three this is the application to resume the tax parcels for public hearing item number four

Here we go again. It shouldn't be so hard Wow. Okay. Success. All right. This request is a little more complicated than the last request. You've got two parcel numbers, 27100005, 0005, and then you've got 2709000002. When you put both the parcels together, you're talking about about 4.36 acres. We're gonna take, the proposal is to take 2.916 acres out of both the parcels to carve out an area for 27 townhouse units to go to R3. The remaining is approximately 1.12 acres within parcel 0002 for a cafe restaurant. So you've got two things, two rezonings going on here. The request would also be to amend the comprehensive plan future land use map in the 2018-2038 comprehensive plan from village commercial to high-density residential on 2.916 and 1.12 acres for area within tax map 0002 to go to general commercial. Applications were advertised for public hearing in the Daily Press on the 5th and 12th of August. Adjacent properties were notified on August the 5th. All right, these are the two parcels that we're talking about. The one to the north is 0005, the one to the south is 0002. But I think we can... kind of break it down a little bit in terms of what's going to residential or three and what's going to general commercial if you look at these two properties and you look at the the yellow enclosed box that's basically the area that's proposed to go to be to the rest of is proposed to go to our three It is to the south of Alpha Street. There is a concept layout like it was with the last proposal. It's in the PowerPoint presentation, which he tends to present, but I've got some of it myself. 27 townhouses on the east side of the EDA pond. It's five buildings, 27 units. There is a clubhouse there. area and 47 green space total impervious cover for the storm wearing usage at the pond one point five four acres 74 parking spaces golf cart and emergency vehicle access to the commercial parcel and I think we pointed that out out at the work session is everybody okay with that Okay, these concept designs, for some reason, they're the duplexes. I don't know why, but probably my mistake. But Mr. Moses does have those concepts as part of his application as well. This is basically the front and the inside portrayal. um this is the close-up of the uh the area that will go to b2 you see the parking spaces you see the uh the gray building uh uh says 700 square foot for a two-story building i will point out that he is profiting a 3 500 square foot footprint so um You know, 3,500 times 2 is 7,000. As long as he stays at the 35-foot height requirement in B2, that's what the requirement should have to mean. Now, of course, he's saying his total first floor will be 4,500 and second floor will be 2,500, but he's profited at least 3,500, so he should be okay. Parking spaces are 35 parking spaces for the cafe and the restaurant. These are some architectural features. These features are not proper. What is proper is the footprint, but not the overall design or the architectural renderings. If this is approved by the City Council upon the Planning Commission's recommendation, the new zoning of R3 and B2 would permit the townhouses and the cafe restaurant. The applicant will be required to go to the Architectural Review Board for the cafe restaurant because it is a commercial use and that is subject to Architectural Review Board review. In light of this, Mr. Moses has a proper condition that the layout in all the cafe, restaurant, well, that's actually not true. The layout, he's proffered 3,500 square feet, but he has not proffered the design of the restaurant. He has proffered the exterior shell for the building will be built before He proceeds with the construction of the first townhouse building. This is speaking to the comprehensive plan now. The properties are contained within the village community area on the comprehensive plan. If the resulting amendment is recommended for approval, we'll be going to high density residential for the R3 area and general commercial for the B2 area for the cafe restaurant. And this would be, again, for the purpose of aligning the comprehensive plan with the zoning ordinance. If the rezoning is, the conditional rezoning is denied, the comp plan, I mean, it could be amended, but it really doesn't need to be amended because it's already in performance with the zoning ordinance. scientist access directly from a combination with Creek Road Alpha Street I think earlier we heard that Alpha Street is going to exclusively serve the the residential use which would be the townhomes in this case and the entrance off of with Creek Road would serve the the b2 use of the cafe and restaurant The applicant has stated that access will be paid, that connector access for the golf carts and commercial entrance, which I think we pointed out last time during the work session. This would be to allow for emergency use. It would have to be paid for emergency use. use of any golf carts have to be in conformance with uh city code chapter uh 78 article 7 which regulates the operation of golf carts but i can tell you that golf carts on public roads will not be allowed by that ordinance uh tia includes uh 27 units as part of this proposal 55 total and I think I've already talked about the access a little bit. The access to the cafe restaurant will be off the entrance off Wythe Creek Road, whereas the townhouses will be served off of access, off of Alpha Street. Executive summary was provided as part of your report. Mr. Bailey is here today. Should there be any specific questions about this proposal? Like with the last one, I'm going to have to vacate some interior property lines, most likely to separate the DR3 from the B2 zoning. Site plans also required must meet all code provisions, including building code permits and provisions. Offered proffers be to use will be a cafe restaurant having a minimum footprint of 3,500 square feet. Townhouse designs as presented will be built. The cafe designs exterior shell will be constructed prior to proceeding with construction of the first townhouse building. Number four, this one's a little bit confusing and maybe the applicant can straighten this out a little bit. Mow the grass along the walking trail by the EDA pond that borders these parcels as shown. The parcel he actually mentions is part of the previous one. And in any case, it's very hard to figure out exactly what is being said here. Now, if the applicant owns the property, I mean, per the maintenance code, he can't let his grass grow higher than 12 inches. So, you know, a little clarification is needed. We can certainly do some additional work on this proffer prior to the City Council public hearing. Normally we don't, but in this case I think we can have clarifying the meaning of this proffer and possibly state the proffer as part of the previous application as well. But again, maybe the app can shed some light on that. Planning Commission, there again, is respectfully asked to consider both the conditional rezoning and the comprehensive plan amendment together. The approval and null resolutions for both are contained in the packet. And I'll take any questions you might have. Any questions?

location of the cafe, what can be built there right now, as it stands, by right?

Right now in Village Commercial, you could build an eatery in Village Commercial.

Right, so that can already be done, by right, right?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, so there's no need to go to Planning Commission or anything like that. I just, what I'm getting at is here, this is presented in a way that we're changing it to get the cap, but that's already been done. That can already be done right now? Right.

Okay.

Mr. Horton, just a follow-up to Commissioner Hartley's comment about the restaurant and the right with Village Commercial.

does a percentage of residential have to be a component of that as it currently is though that's a good question the answer is no uh commercial is is very desired in in village commercial uh residential You know, more than one story, which is what Mr. Moses had previously, does require a conditional use permit because of the large percentage of residential compared to the commercial. Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Horton.

Okay. Here again, Madam Chair, Mr. Moses is going to want to present a panel point. Mr. Moses, I'll get you started here, and then you'll present the way you did with the last time.

It allows me a one-to-one square footage. So if I'm building 7,000 square feet commercial space, I'm only allowed 7,000 square feet of residential. So that would be four townhouses, one building. If I did just that, if I get the conditional use permit, then I can go up to 14,000 square feet. Now give me nine or townhouses because not the full 27. So that's the way the village commercial is. That's why I'm not wanting to resume the village commercial. And there's more reasons why. Because if I do build out 15 more four-story buildings because that's what I would be allowed under conditional use permit for the property right now is just currently zoned. And you talk about a traffic impact, that's what I'm trying to avoid. What I've brought forward here, and Mr. Yeager got it, was that I'm even bringing a plan that has even less residential units than what the current zoning would allow under conditional use permit. So if it's your wishes that I continue With the current zoning, under conditional use permit, I'll have 30 businesses that'll be vacant. No one will be in them. So we'll have broken glass and broken doors. And I'll be allowed 120 apartments. Are y'all really wanting me to do that? Because that's what the current zoning would allow. What I brought to you all was a kinder, gentler site plans for the property that are more conducive to pocosin. Far less construction because I'm only proposing one business and 55 residences, not 30 businesses that'll be vacant for a long time and 120 units. Far less traffic is what I'm offering with the rezoning. Far less housing density. Far more open space and landscaping and a better fit for Pocosin. That's what I was offering here tonight and y'all denied the first half. So we'll see if we can get through this one

find out where we end up and and then i'll i'll re-vector if it's your intention for me to go full up village commercial there's consequences to pocosin but that's the right mr moses while i understand that you're frustrated tonight threatening the citizens of pocosin is not the appropriate thing to do this evening i'm not threatening i'm just saying that i i understand but for people that are listening and as well as me, I get what you're trying to do. I understand it. I really do. But please don't take that out on the citizens and threats, because I won't stand for that.

I'm not threatening. I'm just trying to make sure that it's clear to everyone. We understand. Okay, great. Thank you.

Please proceed with your presentation.

Well, did you talk about what the current bill is commercial?

Previously, I think everything is different.

since mr moses is up here right now can we let him make his presentation and then when we have our comments since he's up here yep thank you go ahead okay so this is for the uh east side of the pond uh a portion of it fronts with creek road

And so the idea for here is that 0005 would become townhouses, and then the pond side portion of 0002 would become townhouses, so that townhouse development would just extend in there. And then on the front side or street front of West Creek Road, 0002 would be a cafe restaurant. This just screenshot from the GIS. And this just repeats what I said. And the comprehensive plan, instead of being R2, it would be high density. I'm sorry, R3 would be high density residential. And so now the cafe, the restaurant portion, again, it would be the 1.12 acre running with Creek Road. That is approximately 260 feet across. the street front and 180 feet on this side and a little less on this side. It would be a minimum 3,500 square foot building. Main access would be with Creek Road. You can reach the parcel based on what we're proposing through golf cart or foot traffic and emergency vehicles and I'll show that. So this is the initial layout. We've got a two-story HM open foyer, and I found some photographs on the internet that provide some clarity on that. They weren't profit because I don't own those photographs. It's got patio seating in the rear, 7,000 square feet when fully built out. So we expect it's going to be a phased construction project. They'll build the initial first floor, get underway, and then add the second floor seating afterwards. And the second floor design, we expect you'll be sitting up top, look through a balcony, you can see downstairs. And then the building footprint would be basically 60 by 75. And here's the rear access. It would be paid. And that is for the emergency vehicles to come in from not having to have a cul-de-sac in the townhouse piece I'll show you in a minute. And this is colorizing the different portions of the property. The green is the obviously landscaping and grass and that's about That's about 36% of the total area is green space. The impervious cover based on the 47 parking lot, parking spaces, the driving aisle, and the building footprint is about 0.72 acres. That would be required of the pond. And then for 7,000 square feet, you only need 35 spaces, but we got 47 here. This is just a screenshot off the site plan created by Mel Hopkins, who's here tonight. And then in terms of some architecture.

Can you go back one? I just wanted to look at something. Thank you. OK, thank you.

And then the proposed architectural features, it's an open field, open dining inside, some outside dining. Of course, I wish the ocean was right next door, but it's not. In this case, you got a pond out back, but you may not be able to see it. But it's a two-story field. And of course, we'd have to go through architecture review board for all this. Now jump to the residential component as townhouses. That's on the remaining about three acres shown here. Not sure what happened there. So in laying this out, the entrance would come off the same entrance used by 200 Fountains Lane. Instead of coming in on the right, you'd take a left, entering, and then the right. right along here in the parking spaces. There are a total of six buildings, but five are townhouse buildings, and then there's a clubhouse and a covered area for meetings, but also if they want to have events there. And maybe other events. There's more than enough parking. So the townhouse floor plans are two stories, three bedrooms, two full baths, 35 foot deep, 24 foot wide, about 1,300 square feet. a rear patio, storage shed, and we have multiple front facades to show. And then the clubhouse would be a male kiosk and then a 16 foot by 16 foot condition space, and then a 16 by 28 covered patio. What that looks like in terms of area uses, again, the total acreage is about 2.9 acres. There's 47% green space. The impervious cover for the stormwater usage is about an acre and a half. 74 parking spaces. Golf cart emergency vehicle access to the commercial space through this connection here from the townhouse main And this is just a snapshot of some metrics that are tied to that portion of the site plan. Here's architectural renderings from the front, from the street view, parking in front of the townhouses and sidewalks. And then the backyard view, The little attached shed separates the view. It gives a little private outdoor areas for each of the townhouses. And here's some more front facades that are optional. And then this shows the downstairs master and then the area out back, living area. Then upstairs, two-bedroom shared bath. then we've got the traffic impact and Mr. Bailey can address that any questions you have on that but as far as I know we're we don't see any improvements required on Wythe Creek Road other than creating the entrance into the cafe questions at the end speak to me a little bit about the cafe I saw two different times there so is it gonna be two different businesses proposed to operation I just need to understand that what we discussed in the restaurant guys are here what I was envisioning or based on our discussion is there potentially two sorry wrong one Two different menus. They just switch over to more of a dining menu. That's why there's a break in the hours. The cafe might actually be open from 6 to 2 now, I think. And then that'll give them a changeover of the menu to maybe a little more formal dining. And again, they're here. They can explain their vision for the new space. They currently occupy suite A of 200 Fountains Lane, which is my building. They desperately seek to expand to a larger place. So they can do this, they expand their menu.

Mr. Hirsch, questions? Mr. Yeager? Mr. Hartley?

When did your last permit expire for this?

had a conditional use but it expired that was june july last year that permit allows that's correct

it could be all commercial or it can be half commercial and half residential in other words a one-to-one exchange of square feet by right and he can get conditional use permits for more he can get conditional use permits like he did last time for two residential over one commercial floor yes right now it's with about right it can be early commercial without having to get a condition correct well I mean with the permitted uses in MVC I mean there are prohibited uses in DC as well as far as Well, I don't have the ordinance in front of me, but I know you can't have a gas station in Village Commuter, for example, or a service shop or something like that.

Conditional use permits.

Well, actually, they're prohibited uses, so you couldn't even get a conditional use permit.

Yeah, there's a fair number of... uses that would be permitted in general commercial that are just not allowed in village commercial the way the ordinance is written right but i'm not oh go ahead yeah eateries and offices are fine within the village commercial but if you start getting into other like a dry cleaner or those aren't allowed certain other labs or garages things like that auto shops

this is less than what you had proposed or got permission for in 2012 but that all expired last year so you currently do not have the rights to do the things you were talking about earlier i just want to make it clear you made it sound like you had the right to do these other things but you don't that's what you're asking that's why you're asking us for this i don't necessarily need a conditional use permit to still build a shorter version of what's there now

yeah you can do commercial stuff there right i can do commercial and then residential over top now but that that's that's going to still generate a lot more traffic than what i'm proposing now and i don't know that that's what this the city's asking me to build more of these buildings because We tried to get commercial, we marketed it, we could not get commercial entities to move forward and mainly because they were hidden from Wythe Creek Road back there because they're behind Langley Federal Credit Union, TJ's, then Dollar General. It was the piece fronting Wythe Creek Road, we had a building six which was like the building now but it was all commercial in exchange for being able to build apartment buildings behind it that would do the two for one so where we're showing where we're showing this piece here this half we would have had a building six but this building one is the current one building six would have been all commercial looked like, and it would basically be the same size, maybe different facade since it's commercial on the front. But I would have, I would have building five here and building six here, which would be all apartment buildings, 12 units in each. So it'd be 24 apartment buildings already and a big commercial building. I'm already way above the traffic that what I currently am presenting for all the properties. Just those three buildings would generate more traffic than what I presented here tonight in its entirety. And then that doesn't include buildings two and three, where two would go here, three would go here, which would look like building one. And then I still got the other two parcels on the other side, the property where another eight buildings like these could go. That's a massive development that I don't think I'm going to be asked to build. I don't think that's what we were wanting here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're trying to get away from four story, three story buildings, trying to get to something that's more gentler and kinder with more open space for because.

I got a question.

I think what we're looking for and I'm not

village commercial zoning always be rezoned as you're asking I hear is most of the residents in this town have got a belly full of multifamily construction and so be it smaller it's not a legacy well I don't know legacy is condos and it does have some apartments so I see it as the same And I think a lot of our residents don't want to see that. And as far as traffic, I think we'd much rather see traffic from commercial business than traffic from residential. Cafe, I like to see that there and that progress there. But that would be successful. It seems awful small to me. that larger parcel where your five units or four units are now or is it five i can't yeah they're that's a tremendous you know being hidden from the street i mean there are many large um properties that you know all over the place that are right on the front of with creek road so proper vision and financing, you know, office could create some very nice properties and, you know, give the citizens out of. And I don't think we would be experienced with broken windows and stuff that you inferred to. I guess while it's going to be difficult. I should have been a little more informed on that before tonight, but as they currently are without.

Can you repeat what you just said?

I'm sorry.

I would like to know think all of us need to be a little more educated on what the possibilities and restrictions are for the current village commercial zoning that we currently have what we can do and what we can't do and what's about right Wally are you able to bring those up quickly on the laptop I don't know how quick it'll be

So, Mr. Yeager, you had a question.

Mr. Moses, I like the fact that from February to where we are today, it looks like the behind TJ's, if you will, to your property that we're talking about. TJ's, correct me if I'm wrong, is in the old location. TJ's is actually moved and they're closer to your property, correct?

Correct, that's why there's no townhouse building there.

Right, and I think that's a good move. You have a clubhouse there, which I think is better than a row of townhouses, if you will. I'm scratching my head a little bit about the townhouses to the left of that that sit behind the cafe and the proximity to TJ's. My concern would be I guess just for residents and the noise and so on and so forth as the night progresses. It looks like you've made a consideration for that with this new design here. And a follow-up, another question, I guess, would be emergency response. They would arrive via Alpha Street, it appears, possibly, and then turn into this development in question to exit when they are finished or...

moving on what would be their path anticipated path they were just pulled right along here and out onto with Creek Road

so that that will provide ample room based on this design for the newest fire truck that we have yeah and that i'm getting the thumbs up from my side planner perfect and through that parking lot when you have a big event or something we've got ample room because i don't see it turning around prior to that little lane there's no i don't think that's feasible correct

Right. We're not going to ask for it to either. Right.

So we'd have to go that way.

So we're just, yeah, just pull through counterclockwise from Alphas to Wood Creek Road.

Thank you.

As a follow up question to that, how would you prevent other traffic from using that path? Would you have signage or emergency vehicle only signage or something like that?

We could also put Bollinger's You know, the vertical stacks, concrete-filled steel, and the emergency vehicles would have the key to move those out of the way. Those are not an emergency situation. They're just an eating rest situation. The emergency to get there was coming in on Alpha Street. we also mentioned golf carts going through there so there'd have to be some way to keep the things you want on there and then the things you don't want not on there well I envision the golf carts actually running along the grass here so people will be walking there anyway to go over to the cafe and just to clarify in terms of the walking area that we're proposing to mow there it's on the pond parcel And I'm sure y'all walking around the pond before there's a foot trail and it's not mowed as often as I mow my property. So I'm just suggesting that what's in the backyard of the townhouses and what would have been in the backyard of the duplexes we would go ahead and include that to the top of the bank. We're not gonna go down the bank towards the water into the shelves and cut cattails and all the other water plants in there. Those are protected. But up here it's just grass. So we would cut that as part of our proper. And also behind building 200 Fountains Lane.

Moses, the clubhouse there does not illustrate, or at least I don't see a parking.

Yeah, I, I, I slid it down some to get more greens, uh, I guess balance out the green space in the pre in the previous version. I had it down here closer to the, well, we got dumpsters shown there, but this parking spaces, it was going to utilize these parking spaces down here. We've got far more parking than is required. Just like 28 duplexes require 56, but we gave 58, 27 townhouses require 54 plus two, 56, and we got 74. So there's an additional 18 spaces there. But I envision that a lot of folks going to the clubhouse are the residents. So they would walk or get in their whatever, golf cart or whatever. I don't really see the clubhouse being utilized maybe for a few special events by people who live there. They want to have a party or something.

Or family members that come. So I guess what I was going to get to, Mean through a DA or whatever reason somebody needs to be dropped off or parked close to there. I assume they'll be parking Dedicated without a clubhouse in that green area.

I assume well what I'll probably do is just move that back But you're right. I could add I could add some parking spaces there for a DA Yeah, whatever you have to do. We can do that as part of the site plan review.

I

This question's for, I think, Wally. Is there any regulation, and I may have missed this, and if I do, I apologize, but for wetlands or anything, any additional pond or anything that would be required with this total buildup, if you will?

It's a good question. We will look at stormwater calculations as part of the site plan, and he'll have to be... Yeah, we had a board with all the regulations.

Got that huge pond there that's already existing. Yes. And some infrastructure has already been in place for that, if I remember correctly.

Under the previous site plans, I had already paid for a portion of the pond for all this acreage you see in green. I've already got those agreements in place with the EDA, and I've already paid about 40% of what... was required for the previous village commercial now we've got a lot less impervious cover with this version compared to what we had so could be i've already paid the full amount we don't know yet but wally mr horton's mentioned we'll review that so i know we have people signed up to speak and i would like to open the public hearing but mr horton we could take a 10-minute recess

so that you could pull up those requirements in village commercial and you can pull that up in the code so we can discuss that here this evening yes we can't let me let me make one thing clear though and i i totally don't mind doing that but the application is for a cafe restaurant to rezone it to b2 now yes you could have an injury in vc but you know i don't i don't know Yeah, we're asking the applicant now to go back and basically recreate what he did before, which he's already said that will work. But I will pull up the regulations so we can have a discussion.

So I guess what the ask is, the ask was, what is permitted? and so it would be helpful not to have the applicant go back if the question of planning commission is what is permitted just take that recess i i know we have a full docket this evening but it would be helpful and then we can proceed forward if everybody is thank you yes so thank you So with that being said, Mr. Moses, I think you're good right now as far as to sit down. And we're going to stand for a 10-minute recess so Mr. Horton can pull that up. You have a comment.

I just wanted to say that one thing we did on the prior resolutions for 008, 0086 and 0087 is we looked at the recommendations of approval, but we never did vote on the recommendations of tonight. And since it was 3-3, I thought it would be beneficial to go through all that and see where we stand.

Okay, so...

We voted on the resolution recommending approval to a comprehensive plan amendment, but it was three to three, I believe it was. It was. Okay, so, but, I mean, I think I know how the dial's going to go, but, you know, we did actually vote on it, so.

Okay, so let's stand and recess for 10 minutes while we work all of this out and get that pulled up and we will come back to it. Okay. Sit down. Sit down. No. The answer's no. We're good. Okay, we're back in session. And Wally, thank you for pulling that up. What I think is best currently, and I don't know how my other planning commissioners feel as of right now, but certainly consensus on this is, as Wiley pointed out, we don't have here tonight a consensus to do either way. What I'd like to do is open the public hearing, if Planning Commission approves of this, And then here we have several residents here tonight that wish to speak to that. Again, we're talking about just the rezoning and then continue the public hearing as well. is because we don't have a majority vote on any of these and continue this to our next meeting, which would be in September, so we can have some further discussion, maybe one of us with you, not all of us, but one of us, one-on-one with you, as well as getting the clarity from the applicant on the mowing, things of that nature, and then bringing this back forward uh for planning commission to consider and then we'll have ducks in the row but this has been a good opportunity for us to understand each other and hear what we're coming from with that being said um could i i'd like to open the public hearing first and then we'll go from there okay that's a great plan okay great So I'm going to open the public hearing this evening, and this is going to be, again, Mr. Schubert, you signed up first when you first came in, and so you are up first, and then Jay Barnhouse, you will be next up just for planning.

I'll be extremely brief. Again, I am Paul Schubert, so ditto my earlier comments to also apply here on section four and five. But let me add to this that I strongly suggest that the cafe be considered separately as there is no grave change to the existing zoning requirement, should not be held up in this process as part of the consideration of the residential component. I emphatically support the approval of Pangea's relocation to Front Whitby Road as proposed.

Thank you for your time. Thank you. Jay Barnhouse? Barnhouse? He stepped out. Stepped out? If he comes back in, just signal and we'll call him next. Cheryl Moses, I have you up next. Did you wish to speak regarding this? And next up will be Connor Daniel after that.

I just want to speak up in support of the business fronting down the cafe. I respectfully disagree that businesses could do well in the center. That's not what we see in Pocosin and in small towns. So the residential on the interior would be preferable, and they would support the businesses that are local and they're in downtown Pocosin. So I'm in favor.

Thank you.

How's it going? Connor Daniel. I've been here two years. I have some questions about something that was said earlier, saying that he had permission in 2012 to build commercially. And I'm just wondering why he hasn't done that. Is it because he wants to build a residential as well on top of that?

So this is an opportunity for you to speak and share your comments.

OK. Well, I was wondering why he hasn't done it. If he wants a residential business, or a business like Pangea was stated, I don't understand why, from 2012 on, it hasn't been put in place. Is it going to keep going further? I just don't understand. OK. OK, great.

Thank you for that. Mr. Barnhouse, I previously called on you. Would you like to speak this evening regarding the application?

I apologize. We were walked out. That's OK. Jay Barnhouse, 200 Fountains Lane. I am definitely in support of this. I am a part of the business, and I obviously have a biased perspective, but for us as the business to be here in Pocosin, we are extremely proud that we planted a seed here and want to see it grow. We are proud to be here and put Pocosin on the map for a lot of people that have obviously everyone knows the past of this town. Don't need to bring that up. But many people have steered clear. They have no reason to come here. And you're talking about trying to boost economic development. And you have a business like us where as much as we want to be out there, we're hindered by the site that we're at. We can't currently have signage on the road unless we do move to the with location and legally have that land that we can put a sign on to be a prosperous business. In no way do we want to sacrifice the character of this town that we love and many people have come to show their supports and many as well that can't be here we do have signatures as well from many people locals as well as those that do go out of their way to come to picosan to us but we then also steer them to other businesses here in town. So we are trying to boost economic development here and get the name out of other businesses and do the best we possibly can that we can with social media. But there are only so many things that we can do without having signage, visibility, and we would definitely benefit from that. Obviously, we're a business. but it's also to offer so much more than what we are capable right now. Do you have any questions?

This is this is an opportunity for you to speak to planning commission, not for us to ask questions.

We are so much more than just a cafe and a restaurant. This is us trying to build a community and to create a space where people can come as well as cultural education. We would like to bring about language classes, ASL. We have a huge interest from many people that you know, from all walks of life. So we have a much bigger vision. And this would be a stepping stone for us. But then bigger picture for the coast.

Thank you. Thank you for your comments this evening. Next, I have Jesse Del Prado. You could come up to the mic. And next after that will be Brad, I believe it's Vickers. I'm sorry if that's not correct. You'll be next.

Hi. Thank you for having me, council members. I'm Jesse Del Prado, co-owner of Pangea. Kind of hard to follow up after Jay. He literally said it all. Thank you. I've lived on the peninsula for 26 years. I love small town. I love growing with it as well. Change is inevitable. The most important thing to consider is how we go about doing it. We decided to go into business and we picked Pocosin out of 14 locations from Richmond all the way down to Pongo, west to Suffolk. Pocosin was the last and 14th location. We walked in and we said, yes, this was it. It's just a small town. We want to be a part of it. We want to bring a community together. How are we going to build that? We thought of the name Pangea. was a supermass continent that connected all the lands together. We're in the most military congested area in the world and we're supposed to see culture everywhere, but unfortunately we don't. So our motto was bring people back together in a serene and neutral environment So we ran with it and we blew up. We didn't know if we were gonna be a failure or a super success, but a lot of people love us. We get guests that come in, say they drove up from Raleigh, down from D.C. Wow, we saw you go viral on social media. We're bringing people in from not just the peninsula, all of the surrounding communities within the Hampton Roads and more. Yes, we are biased because we are business owners, but we want to be successful business owners that stay afloat and evolve. I am personally for the condos and the town homes to build and start a community that you can walk to, Pangea. We want to focus on having wedding venues. People that will, wow, there's a venue in Pocosin. We want to get married in Pangaea. That's where we want to head. And I think this is definitely the first steps and a lot more steps to take to... bring this new community to fruition, and we respect everybody's opinions, but we do see over 1,500 people a week, and a large percentage of that are locals. We know them by names. I see all of you here. And a large percentage are military that will come and go. Townhomes, military can buy them and rent them out to younger families. there are a lot of other more useful ways to use this property but we want to build a community and we chose this place for many reasons and we do want to stay here i do have the signatures if i could put these on record absolutely you can give those to our clerk one question before you leave and it's for both of you all are you do you still have your restaurant over at anderson's No, we sold that three months ago.

Okay. I just was for clarity. Have you been? Yes. But I just wanted to understand that. Absolutely. Okay, great. Thank you.

That's all. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Brad, is it Biggers? If I've pronounced that wrong, I'm sorry. Okay. He is not present. Miss Del Prado? No.

Jesse is my son Jay's my other son and when we first got here we moved here in 2003 right after Isabella and Langley came here and actually one of the first homes I lived in was out here in Pocosin A lot of reasons, it's beautiful, small town, history, and I admire, probably envious of a lot of you that get to actually put REACH down long term. And it's a beautiful thing to hear that you discuss so much important things and you have an open mind. Each and every one of you with your opinions right now, you have an open mind and I do appreciate that and seeing this process go on. having said that I come from a background of I've sold hundreds of land home projects and in seeing the plans of what mr. Moses what Bob has in front what he's proposed I think it's pretty impressive for the space and such the townhomes I think a really nice idea for a few reasons Well, being in Pocoson, they're going to be priced at a certain level, which brings in a certain ownership and a certain bit of pride. And over the years, as the beauty starts to come out with individuals owning and living in those town homes and raising their children up in these fine schools, it's like a diamond in the rough. That area right there is like a diamond in the rough. Everybody, you know, sees, they imagine the beauty in five years from now, 10, 20 years from now. I mean, I've seen a lot going on. And when we have citizens that actually live here, like a few of the people that have spoken, I mean, you can go to the Pocosa Museum and see what Pocosa looked like 100 years ago. 100 years ago, people, men and women just like yourself sat here 100 years ago to plan this city. And I think they did a fabulous job. And I've seen, when we started out, as a matter of fact, was in Hampton with a coffee shop. And I've seen how Hampton and Newport News and such, we see how they develop. And we see how people take care. But this potentially is a beautiful idea. We have the lovely water that I know is going to draw people. That pond is going to look spectacular. The townhomes will look spectacular. Once the landscaping gets in and the lovely trees, hopefully some crape myrtles. And some magnolias. And... Families will live in them for years. And yeah, they're two stories, and one day we all choose to move because we can't go up and down stairs, but you know what, a majority of the people are gonna live in two-story homes. And not everybody's gonna be able to enjoy an acre in Pocoson. Because I've sat with people that wanted to buy acreage in Pocoson. And I know a little sliver here that you can maybe put a driveway and that's about it. People are still trying to find a way to move here. Now having said all that, bringing in the restaurant area You just have to, you saw the photos and you saw what it potentially could be one day that you would be enjoying it yourself, just like we go over and enjoy some of the restaurants on the water and such, and just bring a little bit of that in here. People enjoy, they will come here, they already have to come here to come to the cafe, Pangea. And when you allow people to do that and to have businesses like this, the creativity comes out. And my sons have really, really brought creativity to this location. And people feel it, and they drive from far away. And I'm not used to it, but I get used to it. online and saying that they're going to come and they tell all their friends. And when you also see the vision of, yeah, a wedding venue or just a beautiful place for people to come and just be with nature, enjoy a safe. And when I say safe, bless God, the coast and their police department. They're stellar, and they take really good care, and you guys are all part of that, and I'm real proud. I live in Yorktown. I'm proud of Yorktown, too, in a lot of ways, too, most definitely. It's a beautiful place, but you do have a beautiful area, and I do believe that it would compliment, it would be a huge compliment. Some would squeeze in as many town homes as they could, And it sounds like there is a possibility for more town homes, but Bob has put in a good design in my thoughts for spacing. And what you all have to do together with our encouragement is to figure out how to do the parking, it sounds like, right? And also figure out the shooting range, the noise level. The gentleman, was it Mr. White, was up here speaking about other facilities that, you know, I said you really can't hear the shooting rain, but I know there's things to talk about. But hopefully it's tipping more to the side of allowing this project to happen, because I know you all can figure that one out, and it does seem like a beautiful project for the future.

Thank you. I don't have anybody else who wish to speak or register this evening. Seeing that, is there anybody here in the audience who would like to speak regarding this? We are going to continue the public hearing to the next meeting if the Planning Commission so desires to, since we do not have a consensus on the applications currently.

It's going to be September 21st.

So we're just going to not close it. We'll just postpone that to the next meeting as well. Planning Commission I hear you say you're for or against just continuing these applications to the next Planning Commission so we may haven't have another member present who could be a tie vote so that we could advance these forward to our City Council and then some of the questions Mr. Moses that we have discussed tonight if you could work with Mr. Horton and get some clarity on those, that would be most helpful. And that way, I think it might be a better opportunity for us to have a full house here next month. Mr. Hartley, are you in agreement with that? I am. Mr. Armentrout?

I am.

Okay.

Sounds good, yes.

I didn't have you register okay certainly you are present so who was wishing to speak Let me, before we do this, so the public who is here knows what the intent of planning a commission is. Mr. Hirsch? Yes, I agree. Okay. Mr. Yeager?

Since we started, we did take a vote on number two. We have not voted on number three. Is that correct?

The recommendation I have going forward is to take the 2, 3, 4, and 5 and continue those to the next meeting in September. Is that correct, Mr. Horton?

Yes, I believe in light of the fact we didn't have the majority vote yet.

Right. So that is what the plan is. And I concur with that plan. But we do have public here tonight to speak. So we will capture those comments this evening. So if you could please state your name.

Monica. last name pairing okay you have the floor thank you um so i am here specifically for the pangea the restaurant and not for any other cafe except for pangea i do believe what they do for the community is very impressive i didn't come to pocosin for the community for a little background i'm from northern virginia so the traffic conversation is something that i'm very much aware of I do have concerns about all of the provisions or the additional plans for different sections of the community being built. I'm not sure that I would like to stay in a community that's constantly under construction with increasing traffic. As specific reasons, I came to Pocosin was for the slower pace of life as well as the reduction of traffic in the community that's already here. I also would like to say I live in the legacy of Bocosin, which you're familiar with. We have an HOA there. I am currently in the process of trying to get some approvals from the city to build. However, all emails that we received are people that have left the city in the last three to six months. So I have concerns if we do bring in additional town homes or even just homes in general, that it would be additionally harder for me to try to get permits or to do anything to the additional property that I do have currently here in Bocosin. So I don't feel like I'll be able to continue to build my legacy here as is what I moved for. And then lastly, I would just like to question what are the intentions of the townhome? I'm not sure if the community that I currently work with or met with or reside with has been in favor of additional townhomes or additional properties. And I did hear that there was already provisions in 2013-14, whatever the dates were. The question is why weren't those built and why wasn't there public interest from the residents or from the commercial side? It also did feel threatening from Mr. Moses coming in to say if this does not work out, this proposed plan, that he will continue with another proposed plan that the community is not on board with or the commercial use of this land.

Thank you. And ma'am, I would tell you that Mr. Horton at the Community Development Office would be a contact for you to contact. So he would be able to assist you with the situation of the city that you referenced earlier. I'll get to know you really well. I like to stay very much involved with the community. Good. We're glad you're here. Thank you. Somebody else that wanted to speak? Yes. Mr. Wheeler.

Good evening. Randy Wheeler, 31 Ferguson Street, city manager and zoning administrator. I come to you only as it looks like you're going to continue. And I just had a question about that. Your first two public hearings, you opened them and closed them. So those public hearings can't be continued. But the items certainly can. And you can certainly ask that a new public hearing be advertised for those first two items. So I just was unclear on continuing whether you were going to continue the public hearings relating to the cafe and townhouses, but the other two have already been closed. That's correct. Did you want us to advertise a separate public hearing for the first for the for the backside again? I just wasn't clear.

And I apologize for that. We have closed those public hearings for that. And you are correct. But for these two that we have not taken a vote on, seeing that we do We clearly do not have consensus one way or the other. Felt it prudent to send those forward. So the only two that I would be proposing would be the ones that we have not actually closed. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for clarifying. Did somebody else wish to speak? Yes, sir.

Hello, my name is Lawrence Garcia, 319 Waterman's Way, and I would like to make it clear that I'm against the additional residential buildings. I think it is not what Pocosin wants and what I would like to see as a 31-year-old living here. And I feel misled that I believe that this was only for the addition of the cafe and that that is not what was presented. It feels manipulative and not within the interests of the community. So I'm against the residential piece. Thank you.

Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

for this opportunity. I'm Patricia Bullington.

Can you pull the mic down so the public at home can hear you? Thank you.

I'm Patricia Bullington, and I've been in Pocosin four years. And I come from a little tiny town, much like Pocosin. And the Black River way up in northern New York by Canada, St. Lawrence Seaway. And I've felt... Kind of, I thought I felt out of place in the beginning, but not at all now. And one of the things that did make me feel comfortable is Pangea, and I love the little stores, the Ace Hardware and things like that, but I see in Pangea a place where community can come together, and there's no airs, there's nothing, it's just, a relaxing, it's like going out on your back porch, but you don't have to think about what you got to do inside, if I can make you understand. And so I'm really all for this little restaurant. It's more than a little restaurant. It's all about community here. it's just right in your face about community if you go and visit go visit have a cup of coffee they have breakfast and lunch it's it's absolutely wonderful it really is and i just wanted to say that because i would like to support them in any way i can and the little town of the coast and two because i think it would they will everyone will enjoy it if they haven't heard about it anybody i've taken there they absolutely love it and they come back And I want to thank you for your time, all of you. Mr. Horton, too. Thank you.

Did that fully capture the people on the second row? OK. I just wanted to make sure. OK. So with that being said, and thanks to Mr. Wheeler for bringing to my attention so what we're what we're going to do this evening with Planning Commission is since we did not have consensus on the first two votes and the public hearing is closed on the first two items and with the next two items we they or may not have consensus on those and We are going to continue those to our September meeting. The public hearing for those two items have not been closed as similar to our very first item on the docket this evening, but it was closed tonight. So with full support of those here present at Planning Commission this evening. Mr. Horton, that will be our plan for September will be to continue the applications to that meeting where we can have a little bit more time to digest, be able to ask more questions. One thing that was brought up this evening that I would like to ask clarity for from mr. both Moses if you could come back one last time to the microphone is one of the comments that I heard this evening was would you consider the commercial piece as presented tonight separate from the townhome piece of that I heard that being broken out into two succinct applications. I just wanted to get clarity before we left this because I heard that from one of our commissioners and I'm not entirely sure who that was, so I apologize.

I guess it depends on what is going to get approved for the pond side because the way the cafe is set up now, If you wanted to do commercial behind it, you want the access to it through the cafe. And right now we haven't done that.

Okay.

So we would have to reevaluate the cafe property based on what could or is not going to be permitted behind it.

That's fine. I just wanted to see clarity because I know the question was asked this evening, so I appreciate you coming back up here. So we will consider these items in our September meeting. And we are going to move forward and make one suggestion.

Yes, please Would it be best practice to maybe do a work session prior to the public to the next meeting?

We certainly can.

Because it sounds like there might be some new information that may come forward regarding some of the items that Mr. Moses presented tonight, would that be beneficial?

I think so. Yeah. Absolutely. So that'll be the plan. That'll be fine. Okay. Great. So we're going to move to public hearing number six, and that is the constrained capital improvements plan. Ms. O'Connell, you have the floor.

Thank you, Chairwoman Schott, Vice Chair Yeager, and commissioners. I promise I'll be quick. I know y'all have had a long evening. So I was going to start off by saying good evening, but obviously we're past that. I should say good night. I am Tanya O'Connell. I'm the Assistant City Manager. I'd like to thank you for allowing me to present the City Manager's Constrained Capital Improvement Plan for fiscal year 2028 and beyond fiscal year 2032. In the past, the City Manager's recommendation included utilizing debt service for one to two larger projects, as well as cash funding a few smaller projects. This presented CCIP that you have in front of you provides school divisions requests and city departments requests, which a five-year period totals $26.6 million, and the beyond years request of $21.6 million for a total of $48.2 million. Based on this, if we anticipated debt issuance for these projects, we would be looking at an equivalent of 16 cents on our tax dollars. So in addition to this, the city manager has to take into consideration a future project by York County. As you're aware, the York County Book Hosting Courthouse is under consideration with York County. Right now it's estimated at 150 million. We are responsible for 22.5 million by state code. Therefore, that's an equivalent of seven to eight cents on the real estate tax dollars. Therefore, the City Manager has not recommended in the CCIP any projects that require a tax increase to support debt issuance. His only recommendation is supported by state revenue, revenue generated by the sewer fund, and cash funding smaller projects if available for public safety. Looking at the upcoming budget for fiscal year 2028, the recommendation would include $980,000 for paving, which is supported by state revenue. $730,000 for sewer, which again, supported by state sewer revenue. And then the following cash funding, if available, when we go into the budget. $260,000 for public safety equipment, uniforms, cars, things of that nature. And again, $206,000 for Phase 2 for sidewalks on Pocoson Avenue, along with what we hope to get is $648,000 from Congressional Community Project Grant that has been supported by Congressman Rob Whitman and the help of Senator Tim Kaine and Mark Warner. In the package, you have a resolution to either approve or deny the CCIP that's presented to you tonight. I thank you, and I'm here for any questions.

Do you have any questions?

Do not.

No. Question? Question? Mr. Armatrout?

Sidewalk. Exactly where is...

So if you come off Kessler, as you're turning off to Kessler onto Pocosin Avenue, do you know where we have an existing sidewalk on the left-hand side? If you're coming off from Yorktown Road, it'll start from that existing sidewalk all the way down to Woodland.

And the need for that is kind of where I don't know what the requirements are.

This is actually one of the strategic missions of City Council to put sidewalks in. And so they started with two phases. Phase one is on Little Florida Road from the CVS to Galen. And the second phase is on Bocosin Avenue. So this is a direction of the City Council for sidewalks.

It's an exciting package. Thank you.

Well, thank you. I have another question.

to open the public hearing this evening I have to have seeing no one wishes to speak I'm going to close the public hearing and ask for the pleasure of Planning Commission yeah have a motion please to gonna have discussion all right

So first of all, I'd like to say that I really appreciate the amount of effort and planning that goes into a document of this nature. It's clear that there's been a lot of work and effort put in by city manager and staff and everyone. I guess the piece that I'm conflicted about It's the seven to eight cents tax increase for the courthouse, and I know that's probably non-negotiable on our part right now. We're committed to that. But is there a possibility of spending to be reduced elsewhere for, and maybe some of that's funded from the general fund as opposed to all of that coming from a tax increase? And I get that there's, as I look through this packet, there's a lot of really important stuff in here. I know that those are hard, hard decisions to make. I don't have all the answers here. I just got the first look at this over the weekend. It gives me pause. And the other thing that I'll raise in that same point is I think I saw a future budget item for a $20 million gymnasium to be funded by debt service. And I feel like that might also very well lead to more real estate tax increase. And there's been a lot of discussion in the community lately about real estate taxes. And in general, I think we should do the best job we can to not spend money that we don't have. I know that's a crystal ball of magic. Oh, sorry.

I figured I'd want to answer your question. Sure, sure. The York County Pocosin Courthouse is something that through this next budget cycle, we're absolutely going to see how we can tighten the belt. So therefore, we do not have to potentially raise the seven to eight cents taxes. We cannot commit to that right now. But for this next budget process, we absolutely will be planning for that commitment. As it relates to the gymnasium, it's been an aspiration of Parks and Rec to have a building in which to bring people in to communicate, to be part of the community. Council understands of the cost. So, again, I don't think they're ready to move forward with a gymnasium anytime soon due to the fact that it will be a tax burden on our citizens.

Thank you.

I do think it's worth noting that this is a plan, like our comprehensive plan, where they're allocating buckets of money into that plan. So it's a plan document, and that's worth noting as well. Any other comments? No? OK. OK.

I'd like to offer the motion to the IP I think it's getting past my yes so make a motion to adopt our resolution in favor of the CCI second roll call Commissioner Armentrout aye

Commissioner Hartley? Aye. Commissioner Hirsch?

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson?

Aye.

Vice Chairman Yeager? Aye. Chairwoman Schott?

Aye.

Motion passes.

Thank you.

We have no new business under item number F. We're going to move to item G, communications and correspondence. Mr. Horton?

Do you have anything?

Not tonight.

Mr. Hirsch.

I'll be quick. Most people are gone here, but it's just great to see all the people that are coming out, showing up, getting involved. Hope to see more and more of that. Seems like we're getting more engagement lately, and I'm just very pleased and happy to see that.

I'd just reiterate that I appreciate the feedback and the engagement from our community members regarding tonight's menu.

I think the cafe would be a great idea. That's all.

Mr. Armatrout?

I'll echo that. I mean, I think. Angio, I think. But I think we were more of the. Correct.

the effort that went into putting together this time I've seen that echo just thanks for everybody who came out tonight and or who might be watching this later online very much appreciate your participation

Thank you all for coming out this evening. It was great to see a good community turnout one thing It's worth noting while things are a little bit bumpy for a while. What's worth noting? I think to close the meeting is Planning Commission strives to get this right and that is certainly the reason we deliberate it with council on the legacy comprehensive plan and we want to get it right and by postponing this it's not a yes or a no it's we want to get it right and represent our all you know concerns constituents concerns and community concerns again like Someone reiterated we are rezoning in a comp plan amendment. We're not here to focus on a specific business that's not planning commissions purview. But I do appreciate everybody who came out. I would encourage planning commission if you think of any questions between now and then to contact Mr. Horton. um who can get you your answers that you need and going forward at the next meeting uh will become more informed all of us so that we can make an educated and informed decision which is best for our community so uh that is all i have for that and with that that leads us to an adjournment at five minutes to ten um do i have a motion to adjourn

Second.

Okay. Roll call. Commissioner Armantrout?

Aye.

Commissioner Hartley?

Aye.

Commissioner Hirsch?

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson? Aye. Vice Chairman Yeager? Aye. Chairwoman Schott?

Aye. Thank you, Barbara.

Stand adjourned.