Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

to welcome everybody to the work session of the Bossen Planning Commission tonight, Monday, June 16th at 6:30 p.m. Uh Laura, can we have a roll call, please? Absolutely. Commissioner Armen Trout, present. Mr. Peterson, Commissioner Peterson, absent. Commissioner Herd, present. Commissioner Hartley, present. Commissioner Joerger present. Vice Chair uh Vice Chair Gisinger present. Chairwoman Shock present. Uh a quorum has been established. Thank you. Tonight we have a special guest tonight. We have Mayor Hux who's going to be joining us to say a few words to the planning commission. And mayor, we're grateful that you're here and you have the floor. Good evening to all. Uh thank you uh Chairwoman Shot and good evening Chairwoman Shot uh Vice Chair Gisinger, Commissioner Armen Trout, Commissioner Hartley, Commissioner Jagger, Commissioner Hurst, Mr. Horton, Mr. Canela, and Miss News. It's my pleasure to be here tonight. I'm here on behalf of council to remind y'all how much we appreciate what y'all do for us and the time and effort that goes into it. Uh in particular, as you know, with the two CUPs that we have currently in play, uh these situations have been particularly demanding. Uh we appreciate y'all uh accepting the cup for the pickle ball court being remanded back to y'all. Uh we wanted to demonstrate to to all involved the extent to which we are willing to go to make the right decision and to never be in a hurry to make a mistake. Um, I'm in my 14th year between the school board and the council and the cup for the pickle ball court has undoubtedly been the hardest decision

I've had to make and I'm not there yet and council members talk quite a bit individually uh amongst ourselves and that's a common theme with this CUP amongst the council members. We've all gone back and forth and uh we just weren't ready. We do appreciate y'all's in y'all's input and shared expertise. Uh evidence of the value that we place on y'all as individuals and commissioners is the fact that the retreat that we're having this coming Saturday. Uh we would not have done that uh without the support of the planning commission and direct involvement with the planning shared with Heather. Uh the next step in the process that we intend to take and this goes back to the vision and mission and vision statement that came out of the strategic planning retreat that we had on January 4th uh is to pursue a a comp plan adjustment to better suit the north side of Victory Boulevard. Uh that's one of our objectives and to initiate the planning stages for a community recreation center, whatever it ends up being. But once we get past the retreat on Saturday, what we hope to do is provide clear specific guidance uh for what we would like the planning commission to do for us and we can turn that overall and we can work in parallel with the planning for the community center and we're thinking September time frame to the planning stages for the community center. and I've talked a couple times lately and uh planning commission involvement with that will be critical. Can't imagine doing it wi without uh

representation from the planning commission. Uh just something to think about and uh remember value and the appreciation we have for the plan and my presence tonight of course is certainly my pleasure. Uh, I first broached this subject with Heather several weeks ago and we've talked a couple times about it since then uh to determine a good opportunity for me to come. I'm glad it worked out tonight. Uh, especially with the retreat being on Saturday. Thank you. Uh, have a lot of respect and admiration for y'all. Uh, is there any questions or any anything else that I can share? Thank you very much. I'd just like to say that uh we appreciate your u role as mayor and the work that you guys are doing as uh city council. I know that some of those decisions are tough and uh I know you you catch a lot of flack and and uh which really isn't deserved in my opinion. I think uh too many people like to say too many things and aren't willing to get more involved themselves. So, I appreciate you and the rest of the city council members and what you're doing and uh very grateful to have you. Thank you, sir. It's uh it's our pleasure. Uh we do our duty. Uh and as I was talking earlier, I've had so many role models in my life. Uh I mean, I'm a product of the community. uh and so many of us are uh I mean the the debt of gratitude that we owe uh to so many people is just immeasurable and I'm I'm so thankful to have the opportunity to pay it forward and and do for others what others have done for me. So I I thank y'all for that and wish you the best.

Thank you Mayor Hawk. Thank you for coming out tonight. Next, we'll begin our work session. And Wally, you have the floor. Thank you. Take a moment to get my screen adjusted here. How do I get to this screen? Oh, so the current Okay, easy. Okay. Hi, y'all will remember, well, the planning commission will remember that we went over conditional use permits a bit last month. I wanted to take this opportunity tonight to maybe go back a little bit and talk about the nature of conditional use permits uh and also to go over some changes that uh came out from the last meeting. So, uh, I guess we're sort of going going over to a certain extent what we went over last month, but well, with a few changes. Uh, conditional use permits are, uh, permitted under Virginia code 15.2-2286 A3. Uh, governing body is authorized to grant special exceptions under suitable regulations and safeguards. Special exceptions are also known as special use permits or conditional use permits. We use the term conditional use permits in Pakosa. Key principles to know about conditional use permits. And I'd love to take credit for this slide, but I will say it is from the Alammoral Land Use Handbook. Uh I did not cite that down here, but that's what it's from. Uh CS are legislative in nature as evidenced

by the fact the planning commission uh and then the city council later makes the final decision. Uh planning commission of course represent uh recommends action. Uh uses allowed by a conditional use permit are considered to have a potentially greater impact than those allowed as a matter of right. I think we could see that when we talk about things like pickle ball courts or or uh uh indoor gun ranges or things of that nature. Uh you know they might be allowed but they might have a few more conditions on them at at the end of the day. Uh cups must be evaluated under reasonable standards based on zoning principles. This is this is very important because really we're looking at the land use aspects of could this use permits not necessarily a financial impacts or impacts upon the uh property owner of having to go a certain way that might be more expensive. Um impacts from cups are addressed through conditions and that's something that we're all familiar with making conditions. Uh conditions must be excuse me yeah allergies conditions must be reasonably related to the impacts to be addressed and the extent of the conditions must be roughly proportional to the impacts. Uh that's sort of borrowing uh some language from some land use cases that uh have been been through the Supreme Court the last 50 years or so. Um decisions by a governing body granting or denying conditional use permits are presumed correct and reviewed under the

fairly debatable standard. We always say in planning the presumption of validity, but that's um um there are uses for which a locality may not require a conditional use permit. I'm not going to go over all of those today. They're in your memo. Uh I would just point out um one that we've had sort of recently has been group homes. We cannot require a conditional use permit for group homes. Um, and then I'm sort of back to where I was last month. As the planning commission is aware, there have been some rather detailed conditional use permits, particularly of late, and I think we all know what they are. Uh the city council has expressed its desire to classify these applications so that all required information is provided well before a public hearing uh deadline for material submitted to the planning commission public hearing which is another way of putting it. As such you will note the language referring to officially submitted in section 1-7B. Uh this is of course in the proposed language. Um, this includes classifying CUPS as major or minor. Uh, I did check um in reference to a question from uh planning commission member I believe Peterson uh last month as to whether uh we were okay doing that. Essentially, we are it's it's it's an important classification from from our standpoint, but it's really I mean a conditional use permit is a conditional use permit. Okay. So, I'm I'm skipping around a little

bit, but this is the new language to be included at the end of section 1-7A. uh conditional use permits be shall be considered as major as either minor or major. The difference being generally that a major conditional use permit involves a new principal commercial building to be constructed. I'm not sure how wedded I am to the term principal, but certainly we needed to uh differentiate that we're talking about a commercial building. I think Mr. Hirs Hirs brought that up at the last meeting. uh requires the middle of a concept plan including but not limited to all of the following uh ingress and egress property lines building orientation and dimensions inclusive of all phases the parking lot landscaping and a general at this point location of storm water best management practices. Um, I added that in there. We had it in our application, but I went ahead and I put it under the actual language, too. Um, number three, required approval by the architectural review board, ARB, for a new building or an exterior refurbishment of an existing building. uh andor. And you'll notice andor is at the end of each one of these because either any of these conditions can trip the trigger basically for saying it's a major cup. Uh traffic study required by section 17C of this ordinance. That was something that we put in when we did the uh zoning changes back in November uh of last year. unique impacts concerning noise, dust, and or odor requiring certified professional assessment and/or environmental concerns

as determined by the zoning administrator. Perfect example of that would be a noise study for a gun range. Um the effects of this proposed change would be to separate CUBS as major or minor depending on requirements for the contemplated use. It would aid the applicant in knowing what is required of a particular proposal. Actually uh that would be explained to them at a pre-application meeting but they would they would have this reinforcement uh as well. Um, section 1-7B, subsection one. Uh, this is where we got into what the, uh, city attorney wanted to have added into the language. Uh, application for a conditional use permit as required by any provision of this ordinance shall remain to the city council and filed with the zoning administrator. The application shall not be deemed as officially submitted by the zoning administrator until all required information is provided by the deadline to establish for submittable of conditional youth use permits which is generally 30 to 35 days prior to the next planning commission hearing. Um this is what's different. After the deadline has passed for the planning commission, additional or modified materials, and we've certainly seen a lot of that, shall not be allowed. Should additional or modified materials be submitted to city council after the planning commission's made it recommendation, the application shall be remanded to the planning commission for recommendation prior to the additional or modified materials being considered by the city council. And that's

basically to put it into uh what we've seen a lot late submittals inadequate time to really review those materials uh and that sort of thing. Um once deemed officially submitted and not before the application shall be advertised for public hearing before the planning commission in the manner prescribed by the city. That's uh except for that first that's that's existing language effects requires a complete application prior should be a to in here prior to advertisement for public hearings eliminates late submittals of materials without adequate time to review and as a result of that provides due process for all materials to be factored prior to a recommendation or a decision. Okay, now we get back to the the options from last month. Um, and these are are in uh the first part of uh 17 17A. Two options are presented and they could probably be best seen when you look at the uh the uh the language of the uh that I gave the planning commission current ordinance and proposed changes. You can see the two options at the very top. Um but uh but I I can give you a summary is that option one basically leaves everything as it is now. Um which basically allows applications anywhere as long as the contemplated use is not explicitly explicitly forbidden in a particular zoning district. Further CUP applications applications for non-commercialally zoned properties can be anticipated.

All uses whether major or minor CUPS would still be eligible for a conditional use permit application again anywhere anytime. Certainly, this is the least restrictive option and as I think I said last time, it's the only ordinance I've ever seen that really is this liberal on content to use permits. Uh we did take out the most restrictive um due to concerns by the city of attorney city attorney. Uh but it does leave us with option two which I think gives us a great opportunity to begin regulating cups in in a more responsible manner. It would limit major cups to commercial districts whereas minor cups could still be applied for anywhere. Kind of the middle ground. uh eliminates larger non-residential uses in residential areas in terms of scale and impacts. In other words, something like the uh like the gun range, not to pick on the gun range, but it's the more recent one we've had or the uh the the my storage building. Those would not be contemplated in residential areas. They would still be contemplated in commercial areas. Uh this will allow for some commercial use in non-commercial districts. An example being the design uh business that uh Joe Joey Hanberry has which I believe came to this board about two or three years ago. Um minor CUPS would still be eligible for a CUP application in residential districts. So really what we're trying to do here is we're trying to put the minor CUPS, they're okay anywhere, but the major

CUBS would only be allowable in commercial districts. So that's basically the two uh the two options. uh everything else uh you know was from last month with a few embellishments and corrections made uh pursuant to comments made by the planning commission then I'll be happy to take any questions you have questions and again this is just for an initiation so seems like the distinction between major and minor has significant implications so I think the definition would need to be clear. What happens if there's a situation in a gray area where it isn't crystal clear who makes the ultimate determination on that? Well, that would be the zoning administrator would would make the uh again these are you know these are general criteria, but uh the zoning administrator does have that discretion. So, if they um are submit their paperwork and they're late or want to add something after process again through the planning commission, well, the planning commission needs to be able to factor that information in. So, if that blaze them to that point, yes, have a question or at least a comment. Sure. the term officially submitted has been used and I it's my understanding that all of those required documents or information for the application would be presented or official at that time if you will they would be received yes okay and then at some point once everything's been checked off then it will be brought

to the planning commission that's correct okay so then I that the the hope is the desire is that information that comes late will be much the chance of that is reduced because all the necessary information has been thoroughly right reviewed and it's been greatly reduced checked off and and which I think is great uh is a really good idea and for some members who were present we had an application who submitted it a key piece of information right before a planning commission meeting. And that's really one not fair to planning commission. It's not fair to the public who has a right to be able to view this information. Well, it's due process. It's due process. Correct. And so what this is doing is it's sort of option two is the best of both worlds where you still have your property rights. You can still do these minor cups. you can still do major cups. We obviously don't want a major cup in a residential area, right? And it puts the burden on the applicant to make sure they get their paperwork here in a timely, accurate manner so that you're not bottleneck in making these decisions like, "Oh, well, we need this piece of information before we can approve X." And so it really is streamlining the process more efficiently and and the burden for imparting that will of course be on staff. That's correct. True. And and staff's going to vet that information. Correct. Right. It's a it's it's a very very good work. Wally, thank you. Wally, can I uh clarify? So this the submittal information will be vetted by staff

prior to make sure like the landscape plan and the park absolutely parking is that that is our responsibility. Okay. So what you're looking for tonight from us is a consistent a idea of which option we would like to proceed to go forward with for at a future meeting. That's what you're looking for from us tonight. Yes. And along with the other material obviously but yeah right I have a thought that I'd like to share and I'm not exactly sure how strongly I feel about this but uh the the requirements seem fairly comprehensive and in a way that's good because uh it does minimize the consolidation or it it consolidates the information that gets submitted so that we can review it as a whole, but it I wonder if it also puts an undue burden on an applicant to put together a whole bunch of information, incur a bunch of cost for something that may not be able to move forward anyway. So, would that prohibit someone from even applying for something that might be beneficial because of the cost of putting this big package submittal together on something that they aren't sure they can get approved anyway? Well, I think that's when staff would would partner with them and work with them and explain the process and and really advise them because, you know, our staff here does a great job at really working with the applicants and and you know, telling them what they need and what would work best. And so, while I I understand 100% what you're saying, we don't want to put an unary burden on anyone. I do think that with staff partnering with them as well as um the applicant wanting to establish business or something to that effect here. We have one application right now that

city council can't vote on because they don't have all the information. So, it just keeps that moving forward. I I think if you're going to bring a business forward, you know that you're going to in, you know, incur some type of cost. I I believe that's true. I mean, take a look at my storage, uh, which was it's been almost two years in the rearview now. Kind of hard to believe, but uh, but they need to go through ARB and they needed to get that. They had a concept plan. It wasn't a full-blown site plan. That's not what we're asking for, not a full-blown, which, you know, that does cost a lot of money. uh but a concept and general location of your BMPs that may change but you know just a kind of general idea how it's going to be laid out. I don't think that's asking too much and and really anybody who's serious about commercial development is going to know that those those things are required anyway. It's no commercial development in residential areas is really uh there'll be some commercial development but there won't be uh any commercial development where you've had the big commercial building or you know ARB or you need traffic studies or or any of that. I mean like um the old restaurant down there the old crabcake house. Yeah. Cuz I mean there's there's no parking. There's no Well, so it's kind of a limit. That's the the example that I wanted to give. You know, if somebody wanted to come back and open up a restaurant back there, Yeah. probably appropriate. If someone wanted to tear it down and put a 7-Eleven on that corner, probably not approp. So you know they would still that that's the situation where okay a restaurant or a minor use that's we can

consider those things even if it's major okay we'll we'll consider it as a CV but you know this kind of just gives us a line uh to start with and these applications you know we have those outlier commercial buildings and residential districts that have been used as commercial structures for decades. Um, and it's not the purpose of well, we know what either of these options to make that unavailable, right? But you know what I think we're trying to uh you know get away from is is cups that are either submitted um I'll say half-hearted in that you don't have enough information to make a recommendation but right now they can basically come to our office with the one-page application filled out and a check and say I want to apply. Oh yeah. And we really don't have a choice to take up a where you know in this case it's kind of it it kind of gets us towards almost our site plan process. No, no, no. The code says you have to do these things and provide these things before we take this application as officially submitted. Then once you do that, we'll spend the5 67 $800 to legally advertise your public hearing. Then we'll take you to the planning commission uh you know for recommendation. Yeah. And at the end of the day, you'll know what you're supposed to do once you get put a brew through in that place anyway. They don't have a whole lot of room down there. That would definitely require traffic impact. Right. Exactly. But but Thomas makes a good point. I mean, one of the things about these minors, you know, we're not trying to put these people out of

business. In fact, our, you know, we always kid amongst ourselves, you know, we try to find a way to get to Yes. and and that's what this is about, but doing it in in a more responsible manner and not putting excessive burden on the planning commission or city council. And just if I can add one thing, there's always another option. You know, that option is what Mr. Harbin just did with his property on W Creek Road, conditional reszoning. So, if a conditional use permit isn't necessarily appropriate or if we're we the zoning administrator design or the zoning administrator who right now is the city manager, if if it's in that gray area that may exist between minor or major, okay, are they even eligible to apply? Anyone can apply for a conditional reasoning. Yep. Basically, for anything anywhere. Um, so there's still, I'll say, an out uh for folks who may fall in this limbo area that will inevitably always, it'll always exist. Um, but we we will always offer a way for someone to come to the planning commission and to city council to basically do what they want to do uh to at least have it considered. So that's option three. That's just not covered in this part of the code. No, it's not covered in this part of the code. But, you know, even if you get a resoning application, the theoretical reasoning application, you're probably going to want some of the same material. Yeah. Uh, at least generally. Um, but anyway, more more on that later. But Thomas, the fees for um for the permit applications, are you thinking to um pro you make the the fee appropriate

with a minor a major? A major, you know, the major would you charge more of an application fee because it's going to involve more effort? Well, it the application fee more or less the purpose of is just to cover our cost to legally advertise in the newspaper. The state code still requires us to legally advertise in a per in a newspaper of general circulation, which we have one um and it's owned by a company in Chicago. And I could tell you that a one paragraph, the planning commission's having a public hearing, here's the one item it's on, is about 500 bucks. when we have three or four public hearings, most times we don't even cover the cost of advertisement with our fee. So, the fee is really just to cover that cost of advertising because ultimately it's thoughts on all of our taxpayers uh and that application fee and this is what we tell applicants all the time. Why is this so expensive? um because we have to per the state legally advertise. So that that cost isn't necessarily proportional to the the scope of the application. It's it's purely um related to the cost and it increases every July 1st with the consumer price index. Um but sometimes covers our cost, sometimes doesn't. But um we the city council you all can manipulate the application fee or cost uh but you know it's not to prevent someone of course from applying. We wouldn't want the cost of it to to you know basically make it cost prohibitive for someone to make application. So, uh, I think how it's

structured now achieves that and yeah, I think so almost covers our cost in in most circumstances. And just to be complete, it will go up 3% beginning this July 1st. It's 711 now, but it'll go up 3% from there. And I know it will because Laura's on top of I'd like to uh bring up a another similar to what Commissioner Hirs mentioned but a little bit different when looking back to the gun range that we worked have worked on uh indoor gun range here. Um to me that falls under the major category relatively it would easy to to determine that by looking at the five criteria here. But when I when I switch over to the pickle ball cup, I go down to number five and it says unique impacts concerning noise. So with that because because it does that that nature of that sport and and has been a big topic with that cup. Would that trigger a major? It would not trigger a major. We would it would still be a minor. Uh there are some concerns about in the ways of pickle ball courts. Uh but we did not require a sound study as part of that application. And okay, you know, really we we've had frankly some highly contradictory information given to us by both sides. Yeah. So, you know, that's one we just have to kind of sip through and and sort. I would think the traffic impacts and you know if you have an actual business going on and you're renting that versus what they're trying to do it for which is just family

or friends there's the difference major minor impact to me um that's just my thought process right so I would agree with that thought process thank you so do I do I hear do I have anybody that would like to give their thoughts on what option we should go with. I mean, I have my own viewpoint, but I'd like for share. Seems like we're honing in on it option option two, right? The one, right? uh with just the the idea that we would have more complete application and less time getting last minute information and kind of spinning our wheels and having to send things back and forth between city council and planning commission. Right. That would be my thought. Right. I do believe all of this is a major step in the right direction because it's like we just start from scratch every time. You know, you hear people make comments about, oh, it wasn't zoned for that. was well that's not true because we have such relaxed laws here in town which are great in a lot of ways but you know we need some kind of structure you know you want to be fair but I mean I think we're getting there with that so I mean this is really good I mean both options are I would argue that even this language is is really liberal very right it is it's still very well I' I've um experienced York County's uh special use permit process on from an applicant end and it's it's it's grueling. um expensive a major project and so you know if a project does require you know after going through those you know

there's needed and you need to yeah take a hard look at all the things that impact the site and the community I'm I'm glad to see this. So, you know, I I am in fa that part anyway to have um the major uh conditional use permit. Um I think it's good. Um I think that certainly necessarily that we kind of tighten the strings a bit as liberal as it it has been. It just it makes sense. Sure. kind of asking people to commit for the most part and to kind of, you know, due diligence into before they're applying for something so that not such a burden on staff as well, right? As well as us kind of running back and forth. So, makes sense. I'm all for um this the process of of making things clear. uh for for all involved the applicant uh the planning commission the zoning staff I think it's great um ultimately I think the decision is rest on well the determining factor for me is what which option will will allow is best for the applicant and and for us to make the best decision and I think ultimately that's what we're here for us to make the best decision for the city, the residents, the community. So, absolutely. And and I think this is a move in the right direction to enhance that

as far as which option is the best. I'm still plowing through that. But I I I do see a lot of value in option two for sure. I I agree. I think option two um is the best of both worlds. Um it provides some teeth uh for this process as well as like you know Thomas you explained with the advertising cost if if you're if you're serious about doing it and and you want to you know open a business and it doesn't you know backlog uh the process of being able to make those decisions to move forward to get these businesses up and running. And so I like option number two. I just think it makes sense where it gives some guidance but it doesn't preclude anybody from major or minor and so I do like that that option. So do you have what you need? Uh, so what I'm getting from the planning commission, I can just get an acclamation is that we're going to go with option two and I'm going to present this language as presented tonight at the public hearing next month with everyone. I'd like to see some maybe a little more thought put into the language around defining what defi what kind constitutes major versus minor just so we make that as clear as we possibly can. And I I don't have any specific suggestions off the top of my head, but I think there's still some gray area there that Okay. Well, I'm not going to dispute that there might be some gray area because one thing in this business we know is that no two days are alike and you haven't

seen it all until you've seen it all. uh but I would say that the uh if there is a question we do have a mechanism in place with the zoning administrator's uh final decision. So yeah, okay, thank you so much for your presentation. All right. Um that is actually it for our agenda tonight. I know that some people have said that they cannot be present, but on Saturday, there is a joint work session with city council and the economic development authority and Mr. Neil Morgan, county administrator from York County, will be uh doing the uh retreat. Um so that's an exciting step in the right direction to get all councils together. Um and that's at 9:00 a.m. So if you can be present, um it's public safety building. I'd encourage you to be there. have have any other comments? All right. Well, with that we stand adjourned.