Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

depend. Good evening. I now call to order the February 19th meeting of the uh Coast and Planning Commission. Can I have a roll call, please?

Commissioner Trout, present. Commissioner Hartley, present. Commissioner Hirs, Commissioner Peterson, present. Commissioner Joerger, present. Chairwoman Shot,

present. Thank you so much for that. Um, if you can and you're able, if you could stand this evening as we have our prayer and our pledge of allegiance. Let us pray. We thank you for the opportunity to serve our community through this planning commission. Grant us wisdom and fairness as we consider the matters before us today. Help us to work in unity, respecting respecting differing viewpoints while remaining focused on the common good. Guide us to listen thoughtfully to the concerns and hopes of our citizens to make decisions that reflect stewardship, responsibility, and care for the future of this community. May our service be marked by integrity, humility, and a dedication to the public trust. Amen.

Armen, could you lead us in the pledge, please? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I thank you for those that have joined us this evening and have come out in this rainy, nasty weather. So, we're glad that you're here this evening. We're going to do things a little bit differently this evening. Um, our agenda has one item, uh, agenda item F, new business comprehensive plan amendment. And this is something that planning commission has previously considered. City Council spoke about it at its last meeting and I actually had a a conversation with Mayor Hux last night. So, I wanted to share that with my fellow planning commissioners this evening. Um, I have spoken uh also to Mr. Horton earlier today. he is prepared for what I'm going to share with you this evening and I'm hoping that this will alleviate some of the concerns by the Oakmore subdivision um and you know it becomes on rep recommendation that we discuss that this evening. So um in looking at this there we have heard some concerns as you would imagine about this connecting roadway if if that's the operative word. This is just a plan if it goes in the comprehensive plan to go into the Oakmore subdivision. It's a subdivision. It's a step street. We we all understand that. We we understand that. what we've heard and what Mayor Huck shared with me yesterday evening was we want to preserve the tranquility of that

neighborhood. So in addition to other items that Mr. Horton is going to go over tonight that's been remanded back to planning commission to consider. I would like to ask that planning commission also takes into consideration that this roadway and stop me how I phrase this if I'm improper that is proposed. It is a plan. It may or may not come to fruition. no plans on the books. That it extends from Legacy Boulevard that currently exists with a street light across the property by passing Oakmore in that subdivision should environmental concerns not say, you know, it has to go. There's a lot of should and would. We don't know that. We don't know with that environmental impact assessment. But when we're talking about this this evening and I do see several of our residents this evening to tonight here and I know we have a packed agenda. I wanted to be able to address this concern first going forward having this conversation and then we will proceed into the public hearing portion of the meeting if that is okay with the fellow commissioners.

Yes sir. Uh essentially what the uh city council manded uh to the planning commission uh does not differ a whole lot from what was presented uh to the uh council in joint work session back in December. The big change I think being what Miss Shot just alluded to is that we would not mention uh Oakmore or and we would mention Yorktown as far as uh the legacy should continue Yorktown. I mean we you know again guidance document. So so that's the kind of language we use. Um the city council did agree uh that the research uh or Indian district uh should be redd designated general commercial. Um and I think it's number four where we've got to uh you know we need to do some work on number three and number four make sure it threads with uh with the city council's uh directive. Uh we are going to call it big woods doors. uh the development style should be exclusive. This is ex should be planned in much in the way that a master plan would be. But obviously before that happens, they'll have be a lot of conversations with the property owners

and that sort of thing. Um um so I mean that's basically what what we'll get and uh we'll talk more about it in March I'm sure. Uh one of the things that I also wanted to point out was that the city council came down uh with some recommendations for the plan open space conservation overlay district. Now, those would have the effect of basically tighting our regulations on the planned open space, but still making it a an affordable and effective alternative to what we might consider the cookie cutter type subdivisions. So, uh, one of the things that I was going to do before we we meet again, and we can have a public March, there's no reason we really can't. Um, but one of the things I want to do is look at some of our existing planned open space and get an idea of how these regulations would affect it. Um, essentially, you know, we're still keeping the carrot of allowing some lots on private streets and and to me that's a that's a big carrot of our will reduce the number, not 10, maybe five, maybe four, something like that. Um uh the intent I'm going down here a little bit. I apologize for that. But uh very small print. Um permitted land uses. Uh they they'll spell out that they already do actually. Uh general dimension lot size and design requirements. There was some talk about um doing some work on that. The lot size were a quarter of acre right now. What I think really will come to the four is

the open space. How we calculate open space. Right now with the amendments that we did last year, we count open space, but you can only up to 50% of your non-title open space and the rest of it has to remain undisturbed. there is an opinion out there that maybe we shouldn't count any of that as open space. So, you know, as far as for density calculations and that sort of thing. So, um, basically, uh, we'll be going down these changes that I expect to have a full report for you, uh, in March how these would affect our existing or, uh, you know, we'll let our citizens weigh in as well and know what's going on.

Um, I'm going to go around and just see if any of the commissioners have any other comments on this. to you. I think what you said makes sense as far as using, you know, where the lights already at and Right. I mean that. Yeah. Okay.

Have your guidance for future meetings. And now to do Thank you. Yes, you do. So, we took care of that. We're going to the minutes. No. To that go.

Um, so thank you for that and thank you for uh taking this out of order and I apologize to those that this may hold up, but I'm hoping that that helps alleviate any concerns. Um, we are going to now move to item C of our agenda. Thank you for that. And uh, we do have one change with the name uh that has already been brought to Miss St. Pier's attention and she will correct that. Um, is there any additional changes this evening that commission the commission would like to?

If not, can I have a motion, please? And a motion to approve. I have a second. Second. Can I have a roll call, please? Commissioner Armen Trout. Yes. Commissioner Hartley. Yes. Commissioner Hirs. Hi, Commissioner Peterson. Hi, Commissioner Joerger. I, Chairwoman Shot,

I. And this is being approved as amended. With that change, that's correct. The motion passes. Thank you. We are going to transition now to our audience for visitors. And this is a time when our audience can come speak about anything that's uh not related to any of our public hearings this evening. So, if you have an item that you would like to come up and speak to, um, please feel free to. If it's regarding the public hearing, please hold your comments until that time. Would anybody like to speak? Seeing none, I'm going to close the audience for visitors. We are now going to transition to our public hearing and that would be under item E. Um and this um is the first public hearing is for Bob W. Moses and foundation fountains of

Yes. The I can't talk all of a sudden. Apologize.

Oh, you're fine. You're fine. Uh I want to make just a few notes before we get in uh to the presentation. You'll notice a green tab in your uh in your documents there, your uh your packet. uh that is to point you for ease of pointing to where the actual staff report and the approval resolutions are. Uh instead of combing all through the documents, we thought it might be a little bit easier to to get you in that area. I am going to give a presentation. Mr. Moses is going to give a presentation and and of course we'll answer any questions you might have. Uh but uh and after that I wanted to point out that uh Mr. Bailey is here who uh was principally involved in the preparation of the TIA. So uh hopefully we got everybody on board to answer any questions you might have.

Okay. And uh Mr. Horton, if we could pause on you at this podium so commission can ask you questions before we transition over. Okay, great. Thank you.

Absolutely. Uh this is a conditional resoning application from village commercial to uh R3 uh residential. That's the highest density residential district that we have. Uh uh you know these these involve four tax tax pin numbers. It's 2710 O uh O5 and 2709002 uh on the uh I guess you'd say east side of the EDA pond and uh 270187 and 2701 sorry O86. 086 is actually owned by Albert Sydney White. He is a part of this uh reasonzoning application. Uh the proposal is for use uh on the east side of the pond as 38 town homes and on the west side of the uh EDA pond would be for 28 duplex units, not houses, but 28 actual units. The application was advertised for public hearing on February 4th and February 11th of 2026. Uh adjoining uh notice letters were mailed out on the 4th of February, 2026. The overall site has not been developed in accord with Mr. Moses's past approvals. Uh most recently it was used as a lay down yard. Uh if you've been by the property and I've got some pictures later. Uh the front part or I'll say you

know since I've started this east side of the EDA pond I I'll continue with that is pretty much cleared. Uh although it's uh looks fairly neat but it is cleared. The back two parcels uh which were the old phase 4 and Mr. Mr. White's property is wooded. Uh, I'd say I'd say well wooded at this point. Uh, the parcels are bordered by village commercial zoning to the west and extreme northwest. Uh, village commercial in the uh, area of building number one, which is the one building that has been built. Uh, B2 with Picosen shopping center and a grass area. And uh you've got uh TJ's and Langley is general commercial. TJ's is business uh uh B2 business. Uh the remaining parcels along the uh east side are in B2 zoning. They're across from W Creek Road. Uh on the uh extreme south is an R3 area for the uh uh Oxford Muse LLC. It's a It's a community down there as well. All right. This is the access off of Alphus. Uh if you'll if you remember from your TIA, and I know it's a big document, but uh there was going to be a new road coming off of Whit Creek Road, there is going to be some spillover into this area exiting and entering off of Alpha Street. Uh you can see building number one there and you see basically the gravel that is the area where that access would be uh site of the future future town homes east side of the pond. As I said it is

kind of cleared off. You can see that uh from the uh from the uh photos there. Uh and this is your vicinity map. And if you look at the vicinity map closely, you can kind of see what's underneath these zoning districts. But uh the uh the properties with stars on them are the properties that are part of this resoning request to conditional use R3. The uh properties and I'll get my pointer out here. new technology. Um, these are the these are the site of the town homes and this will be the duplexes uh back in the rear. Past history. Uh, I don't want to weigh y'all down with a whole lot of past history, but just suffice it to say, there's been a lot of activity on these parcels over the years, and I I tried to do what the culminating action was for each one of these properties. Uh, reszoning was approved in 2012 to reszone, if I can go backward just a little bit, maybe I can, uh, to basically reszone this area up here. uh to village commercial. It did pass. There was also a comprehensive plan that was done as part of the same meeting that redesated this entire area uh as village commercial. As far as uh there was another reasonzoning that really affected this

property down here. It went from B2 to village commercial. It was done in 2016. Uh I should back up just a little bit by saying the actions in 2002 included a conditional use permit that allowed u for uh residential over commercial more than one story a sec a second uh one there. That one was extended to 2019 and extended again to September of 2021. Uh so again that's expired. Okay. So as we move along with past history um the CBS for phase three and four are likewise they're all expired as well. But just so you know, there was we did pass those back in February of 2020 and they were they started off several iterations of both phase three and phase 4. They started off as as allowing you know a 2:1 ratio in the same building. uh sort of over time it became that these cups allowed for separate residential and separate uh commercial buildings as long as the 2:1 ratio of residential to commercial was maintained. Basically, there's no longer any consideration of commercial units. All past exhibits will be replaced by the concept layout showing in Mr. Moses's propos PowerPoint which you'll see in a few minutes. It is an entirely new direction for the development of the area necessitating this conditional reszoning proposal from VC to R3.

This will have the effect of resetting the area with one proposal instead of many. Frankly, that's been a bit confusing. Um, this is the last reasonzoning amendment that we did back in uh February of 2020. And I show you this basically, and this did not come out great on this thing. I think it comes out better in your your packet, but what it shows is it shows a pretty large area of imperous surface with the exception of the area in the front, which was denoted wetlands at the time. And of course, Mr. White's property that was never a part of his proposal until tonight. So, you know what I would say is I haven't put a pencil to it to see exactly how much impervious area was on this plan because we never did get a site plan approved. We got one in. We had comments, but we never got it back. But, uh, I think what you'll see from Mr. Moses proposal is an attempt, a good attempt I think to meet the the R3 zoning requirements. Uh if approved by city council after recommendation of of the planning commission, the new zoning of R3 uh conditional zone would permit the town houses and duplexes. The applicant is not required to go to the ARB for the reason that if this reszoning passes, it will be commercial. It will be residentially zoned property and residentially zoned property is not uh doesn't fall under the ARB's jurisdiction. Uh Mr. Moses has added added a proper condition that the layout in all units will be consistent with the architectural drawings which he'll show

you in a minute submitted by the applicants. The applicant has also submitted a request for comprehensive plan amendment. Um I will I will show that separately but just uh understand for now that uh it will go to highdensity residential uh if it's approved ultimately and um I just want to say one thing about a highdensity residential. Uh R3 is the highest density that we allow. Uh and that is up to 12 units per acre uh with open space provisions and that's what and of course parking um and that will be assessed at the site plan. But but again high density is not 30 30 units per acre or anything like that. I just just wanted to make that clear. um ingress and egress cons uh considerations. The site is access directly off of W Creek Road and from Alpha Street. As I explained a little bit earlier, the entrance from W Creek Road will be via an access serving the east side of the development uh the 38 town homes. Uh of course, as I've said before, there will be some spill over into that uh entrance off of Alpha Street, which is close to building number one. Uh the second access for the 28 duplexes will extend from the existing alpha street into the duplex development via an approximate 24 ft roadway with gutters. In some the submitted traffic impact analysis assumes all of the traffic coming off of W Creek Road. Ultimately this is true.

uh and talking with Mr. Moses and later confirmed by Mr. Bailey uh the preparer of the TIA they that I was a little puzzled when I saw that statement in the TIA. So I asked I said well you know what about Alpha Street? Well it assumes W Creek because Alpha Street goes into W Creek and so the assumption is and Mr. Bailey's on hand if you have any additional questions about the TIA. Um it that's basically why that statement was there. Uh all the traffic to my understanding is uh has been okayed as part of the traffic impact analysis. Boy, this is really bad. Um well, you can see the existing roadway. This is a plan that Mr. Moses has in better detail, but that's the roadway coming off with Greek road. It is 24 foot wide with radi of 25 ft. Um, these are the town homes. You can see those there. 38 of them. And going across the road, you can see the duplex units, two two a piece. Uh and this roadway is a 24 foot roadway with curve and gutter as well. Site of the further future duplexes. This is the west side of the EDA pond. You can see that these properties are wooded. Um both Mr. Moses and Mr. White's property. Um should the planning commission make an approval recommendation? staff does recommend that it include the following conditions proper by the applicant or owner. And if you'll forgive me, I will

read those out. Uh 55 and over age restricted ownership. Granted a future 20 foot wide easement in the area shown on the presentation by Robert Moses, which we'll see in a minute. Consider the Alfred Street Extension Quarter on tax map number uh 270186 and 2710 O87 for lining up the yetto beet determined 20 foot wide driveway coming from the parcel to the west which is owned by Iowa LLC and they did get a conditional use permit for a gun range among other things. um uh as long as it's also aligned with the Alpha Street Extension Corridor. Uh the applicant will provide a connector easement to connect the properties on the west side of the EDA pond to the properties of the east side of the EDA pond. It's important for me to point out that that it stands on its own though. the two parcels to the west and the two parcels to the east stand on their own in meeting the R3 requirements. The overall layout, including all constructed buildings, will be in conformance with uh the proposed layout and architecture renderings submitted as part of the development. And at that point, I will stop and I'll answer any questions you have uh before Mr. Moses takes uh takes a stand. 55 and over have any real teeth to it? Like that can I mean

well it's a proper condition. If if he doesn't go by that then that throws this whole reasonzoning into limbo. Uh but that again that was voluntarily profered by the applicant and so we we took it at face value 55 and over. There will be some obviously they'll there'd be some documentation. Not everybody who's 55 looks 55. So, you know, they'll need to know what the age is going in. Is there some core architectural plan for that area that I notice that if this goes through that there will be architectural viewboard requirement but is there a plan in place for that area that

well what I what we have proposed uh and as part of the uh property here is that the materials that were submitted as part of this application which again I I'll probably fuse these two reports together but Mr. Moses will be showing you some architectural renderings and uh and what the applicant has done is proper that he will be in conformance with those renderings. So I mean basically if you if you like the drawings, they look good to you, then you know that's that's the architectural review board. That is the architectural review that we're going to have. If you don't like them, then of course you're you're free to to do that as well.

Well, I had a question about um the turnaround, culde-sac turnaround, if you will. Thinking about I think the city fire department has recently acquired a a large fire truck. Yes. and just looking um thinking about the turnaround space if needed for for a vehicle of that size. I think if I remember correctly the height of those town houses somewhere around 33 ft 35 twotory, right? So I guess the chances of it of the big fire truck going down there if need be. Um just making sure I guess thinking ahead with

well we tried to plan a turnaround and we did this in the pre-application meetings that was one of the uh the things that we pointed out is that we would need to make sure we had enough access turnaround and you know perhaps Mr. Moses can speak to that as well. And the and the connector, if you will, is that a walking path uh or will that be It's not It's not going to be used by vehicles. It's just basically going to be a walking path. Serves as a connector basically. Run. Yeah.

Concrete. All right. Well, I'd like to add to Mr. Hartley's comment about the 55 and oversees and as a 55 and over community, I I wonder if that's particular market with stairs that age. That would not be something I would be looking right be looking at a change in that in the future if it's not successful.

Well, you know, that's always possible that it could submit a reasonzoning amendment, but uh again, you know, it would have to go through all the proper, you know, scrutiny by the planning commission and city council. But as it stands right now, it's 55 and over. The applicant feels like he can sell this. Now, he can speak to that a little bit better than I can, but but interested in how the uh uh residents getting in and out onto with Creek is going to work out. I think that maybe that discussion can happen with Mr. Moses's Okay,

Moses, if you'd like to come up.

Let me set you up here, Bob. Uh, I'll set you up here with the slides. And thank you all for the opportunity to speak with you tonight about this proposal. Like to give you a brief summary of what we've gone through in this um development. I bought the first piece of land in 2012 and that was uh along the west side of the pond and then we moved forward with building one at the head of the pond. And it's it's uh it took us quite some time to get village commercial going in the city because there was no comps. uh the banks and lending the money. We were fortunate enough to get lending for building one construction from Virginia Company Bank because many of those board members were from Picosen. Uh while we were constructing the building for occupancy in 2016, uh Virginia Company Bank changed hands twice. And so we uh we continued to move forward and try to get building two done. Um we never were successful to get building two under construction. Uh we got close and then COVID hit and each time we had struggle with what how the development of village commercial was set up. So one of the things we had to do and come back for uh permission from uh the city was instead of having all the buildings on one track of land, we were going to divide it up into individual lots per building. So we got that approved. Uh I had some interest in the all commercial building about where the two is on there uh three times. Uh we even redesigned the building, did a little site plan development to show that it would work uh for businesses here in town that wanted to move. And when it was time to get letters of intent uh to move in and occupy so that we could get the lending from the banks,

we did not get the letters. So those those entities have now moved uh one entity has moved in into a smaller space um over here and that's truest bank. So we we've uh just haven't been able to get the commercial underway. So uh I came back number of times to try to just get the cup extended to be able to have a little more time to work with clients, potential clients, but we never could get it um going. Um the cups uh expired in July and when I came over to meet with uh Wally and his team I explained to them that we were just not successful in getting the commercial to to go and so the suggestion was well what if you get rid of the commercial and so we started looking at that from a an R3 perspective and that's what I'm going to present to you is basically getting rid of the commercial component and staying below the units per acre that was already allowed under the village commercial.

Okay. Did you want to speak to this?

Yes. So, Wally had already gone through uh where the tracks are located. Uh the R3 considerations are 35 foot height to mid roof, 12 units per acre maximum, 20 foot setback from the rear property line, and then 20 ft between buildings. So, uh, some of the additional considerations were landscaping buffer in the rear of the buildings and we certainly have the pond in the bag. So, we'll we're going to put forward the landscaping plan once we really get a little further along with the site development plan. And instead of dumpsters like we have at the building uh at 200 fountains Lane, we like to unit individual unit trash. Um, also we had to consider the firet truck turnaround at the end of the long driveway on the west side of the pond. And we understand that there's going to be or possibly a a 20 foot wide easement coming from the property to the west of us to connect with Alpha Street. So, we were simply going to say, okay, we'll we'll try to match up whatever that 20 foot comes in as that site gets developed. We'll try to bring it into our driveway, whatever that looks like. Uh, as long as it stays in that Alpha Street corridor, which is about a 40 or 50 foot wide, uh, strip of land. The proposed floor plans uh for the town houses on the east side of the pond is basically a 35 foot deep by 24 foot wide twotory uh age restricted, no garage, a main floor master because that's what uh folks my age like. And I have no trouble with stairs. And if some of the clients want to get uh one of the lifts that goes on a staircase, they can certainly install one of those. Um, and we meet the setbacks. In terms of two family dwellings, it's a little different

footprint, but it's still a nice roomy uh dwelling, 31 ft deep by 85. And since there's two of them, it's 85 ft wide for the two twotory age restricted, no garage. Again, a main floor master. It's weak. And we meet the setbacks. So, I'll look give you some more details about the town houses on the east side, the pond. No, go back up, please. So, you you wouldn't look at a town houses and that's further down here a little bit. There we go.

Okay. So, we've got six twotory buildings uh vary from four units per building to seven units and nine units. It's the the whole site of these two parcels is about 4 acres. We have about 46% green space total. uh and not count the green space that's in the the the setback, we have about 32% uh green space. The impervious cover in term uh for the storm water usage of the pond, you'll scroll down just a little bit, please. Why it's a little over two acres. We have 99 parking spaces, more than enough. And let's see what else it Yeah, I'll get to the um total units in a bit. Let's go on. Okay.

The architectural. You want to speak through? I'm sorry. I've got architectural next if you want to talk about that. But it's it's up to you. You tell me where you want me to go.

Yeah. So, look, this is the ele front elevation. Uh these are some of the front elevation facades we put in there with parking in front of the units, age restricted sidewalks, uh connected uh development. Go ahead. Next one. This is the rear elevation uh where it's a roomy outdoor living. Uh there's a a separate uh attach shed utility room for a lawnmower or putting your uh your lawn chairs or tables away during the storm. Go to the next one, please. And here's just some additional facades that we we're kicking around and we can certainly look at others just to increase the curve appeal of the of the units. Next one, please. and the se first floor and second floors. The first floor has a downstairs master and then the staircase goes up to two bedrooms with a Jack and Jill bath and plenty of closet space. Then the two family dwellings on the west side. This two long strip, we have 14 buildings, two units per and then we have the long road down the middle with the culde-sac at the end. we meet the 20 foot set back and in terms of scroll up just a little bit while

Sure.

Yeah. the the total acreage a little over five acres. We have about 60% green space total or about 45% not counting what's in the setbacks around the perimeter. And our impervious cover on this is around 2 acres as well. And we have about 58 parking spaces. And we've looked at several different u facads and and concepts for the uh curb appeal. And we show uh two buildings with two different concepts on on how the the the interior can be. And that's that's the rear of them. Got a little uh in uh undercover type patio area. And then you got the big sun room in the back. Go ahead. There's some additional facades to consider. You can keep going, please. And then this is the uh first floor is on the top piece and the upstairs is is on the bottom piece. It's a pretty open floor plan with a downstairs master. So, how do we all sum up? Uh, as Wally mentioned, 12 units per acre is the maximum allowed. Uh, for the previous plans I had was uh around nine units per acre. And so that would have given me 81 units if I wanted to come back with that uh same number of residential units that were allowed on the village commercial. But instead, we're only proposing 66 total units, which is about 7 and a half units per acre. So we're a little maybe 60% of what is the maximum allowed with the 38 town houses and the 28 two family developments. A traffic impact assessment. Wally mentioned some of that and Mike Bailey here to address any questions you have

on that. But other than cutting in the new entrance under W Creek Road on the east side for the town houses, that's the only uh uh modification to Wid Creek Road that would be required for this. And of course adding the driveway from the west uh just to get into the two family dwellings. That that's just a simple modification to Alpha Street. And again, regarding tying into the property to the west, um, this 22 acre strip is the what I call the Alpha Street corridor that heads west. And

again, we're willing to set aside whatever to tie into what the 20ft road or driveway that we hear is coming in potentially coming in from the property to the west. Any questions and answers sessions? Yes, I'm first. Um,

thank you. Uh, I'm I'm interested in what the traffic analysis foundation to people getting in and out of there on with Creek. If it were me and I was turning left, like when I'm leaving Langley Federal, it's a bit challenge depending on the time of day. So, and I don't know if that within scope of the traffic analysis or or out that question, but thoughts. Yeah, Mr. Peterson, Mike Bailey conducted the TIA and he's here to answer any questions you have.

Good evening, commissioners. My name is Mike Bailey with Grove Slate Associates. I'm the transportation engineer. Happy to answer any questions. I'll start with you, Mr. Peterson. Um, I don't know if you have I assume you have the document in your in your folder. Um, so as part of this, we did do an AM and PM peak hour analysis, which is standard for the busiest times of the day, morning and evening rush hour. Um, we found, and I can point to it in the document if you'd like, but we did turn lane warn analysis to see if any off-site improvements were needed at either of the intersections with Creek. Uh, in addition to that, we did level of service delay and queuing. These are measures basically of efficiency uh for ingress and egress of the site. um at the you're speaking specifically I believe to the the new full movement driveway on W Creek. Yeah. So the northbound left movement those are A's and B's which are really good levels of service. Uh levels of service are measured A through F. F being oversaturated. C is what we designed for. So this would be an underutilized or under capacity movement. Um, so if you were to look um in your packet, it would be page 16 of the TIA. If you look in the top right hand corner, you'll see the page numbers. We're looking at the bottom of that page at table five specifically.

Excuse me. Are you with me? Yes, we are.

Okay. So table five, the title of that, excuse me, is Whitre Road at the proposed full moon driveway. It's the one we're speaking about. And then in the second column, you'll see lane group, you've got the um the northbound left, the NBL. That would be the movement coming north with taking the left into the site. So that'd be a form of ingress. Um and you can see in the morning it's a level of service A and also in the PM. So, it's it's as good as it gets. The average car would have um a delay of about 10 seconds in the morning and in the evening would have an average delay of about 8 seconds.

I'm going to ask you to sit down while we continue talking to Mr. Moses first and then if we we'll call you back up here if you don't mind. Thank you. That was helpful. Appreciate Mr. Peterson, did that answer your question? Uh, yeah, I think so. Thank you. Thank you.

The um the pond that um I guess sits kind of in the middle of the two developments, if you will, between the duplexes and the town houses. Um, from a from a thinking about safety, I guess, or do you have any plans about adding any type of fencing around that or anything that may prevent some type of a accident occurring from a resident? Cuz I believe they do back up some of those duplexes are going to back up to that water. And same same with the town houses. Is is that a concern or a thought or leaving them as is?

This topic has come up in previous hearings and the first of all, the storm water ponds owned by the EDA and it's only be used for putting storm water in there. So, there's not supposed to be any recreational uses. People aren't even supposed to be going to the W's edge in the first place. So, that's that's one constraint. But, I understand your concern for safety. what we've done for uh the building that's there now. The the tenants tenants acknowledged that the storm water pond is not on our property and it's is for storm water, not for entertainment purposes and that they're at their own risk for that. So that's that's all we've done at the moment. We haven't put any physical barriers. We brought that up in the past putting physical barriers, but then it would uh deter maintaining the pond for the storm water features. So it presents an obstacle. So that those are certainly a valid issue. We could have discussions on that and see where it goes. But understand your concern.

You there's no community center that I've heard mentioned it shared area space building wise or is there? There is. And that was the reason for that connect connectment from the duplexes over to the townhouse area. There's There's a there's a clubhouse. Okay. Thank you. The townhouse plot, please.

Apologize for not pointing that out earlier.

Sorry if I There we go. Across the driveway from the fourunit building is a clubhouse. That's a common area for them to meet. And then this huge grassy area that runs behind Langley Federal Credit Union and TJ's. Um you the property for TJ's is not current. As you know, the building's in the back where we've got the blank space there and all where the building is. That's all new parking lot. So that's going to be probably the the largest component of the outdoor grassy area. And the purpose for the clubhouse is so that uh all the residents can have monthly meetings and gatherings and also put up a few wedding tents along that grass and really have a nice party if they wanted to outdoor events.

It looks like you have some visitor parking there near it in case for what you just said. extra parking just by virtue that building two of the fountains was going where the four units shown. So, we have plenty extra parking there as you come into the property from Alpha Street. And that and that'll be great because that's that now that those parking spaces would be dedicated to the clubhouse and and use of the common area, that largest common area.

And I don't correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't see a way to enter from with creek and and be able to stay on a path that would take you over on the other side of the pond, which would be the western side. Is there a way to do do that? There's not. You'd have to turn around and come back out on W Creek. No, you go right onto Alpha Street. Okay. And take a left on Alpha Street. Go around the front of the existing building and turn left right. So So you would leave the development and come back into the development if you come in on with Okay. Yeah, and that's what Mr. Horton was talking about earlier about two separate It's really two separate developments and we're just going to connect them so we can take advantage of the common area for all of them.

All right, thanks. That helps. Yeah, you're welcome.

Uh, thank you. What are the heights of the town homes in the front? I know it said within limits, but uh do you have a rough idea? It looked like they might have been 25, 30 feet, something like that. Well, my architect is here, Greg. Greg, do you remember what the height are? It's about 24 25 ft. Thank you. Yeah, we're well below the height. Do do you have you happen to have any renderings of what those buildings in the front would look like as you're driving down W Creek? I'm just curious what's on the end of those two nine unit buildings. I don't know if you have any rending. If you if they're in the packet and I missed them, I apologize. I just didn't see anything that looked

Let's see if I can get a Maybe on the the next one down, the rear one. Maybe we can get a a in view. Okay, we can barely get an in view. There's going to be a window there trimmed out with siding. They'll be able to see um some concept. Well, coming from this coming from the south, you probably see some of this like it is here from a isometric perspective. And then you pass the buildings and then you'll see the front from the corner. But those sides will complement what you see here in terms of the color scheme and

thank you package. So I don't have any questions. Thank you. I don't have anything. Have a couple. Um, how is your 55 and older going to be enforced? Well, it's going to be ownership. So, they are going to be owners and not rentals, correct?

Well, that's what I understand is the ownership has to be 55 or older. That there is an opportunity for and I we brought this up in the discussions that what if the person living there needs to have someone living there. Do they have to be 55 years of age? The answer was no. So, if you need an in-house care or you got some family members living with you to help you get around or whatever the situation is. So, not every occupant has to be overbody.

I understand that. But, um I was curious about that. And um you talk about an outdoor event space, have tents and and all of that. Who's going to oversee that? Are you going to have

Well, the tenants will do that. They'll have their own community and their own um um property agreement for how the common space is managed. So, I was just suggesting that's what they could do if they wanted to. If they all decide they want to have a little party, they could. There's plenty of space is what I'm getting at. That'd be totally up to them. Um I can we open the public hear? Sure. Going to open the public hearing. Um thank you. Thanks.

Um I do we have anybody like to speak regarding this application this evening? You raise your hand. Yes, sir. John and if you can come to the podium so the viewing audience at home can hear you. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Uh my name's John and I uh live just a couple miles from here. And uh had a couple questions u uh it was raised about enforcement of um or who would be responsible for the common area and whatnot. Is this going to be an HOA kind of community or

So, what what we would like for you to do is this is your time. If you want to ask your questions, we can call Mr. Moses back up here and have him um answer those and staff can also uh help with those. But right now, this is your time to speak regarding that. Okay. Well, then and can This is my first time doing this, so I can express concerns or whatever. Absolutely.

Yeah. Um, I wasn't a real fan of the Legacy Project. I lived in Picosen now for I believe it's about 17 18 years. Uh, one of the reasons I moved here was it's just a beautiful place and, uh, lots of trees and water and all that. And so, um, I see that slowly disappearing and it's it's very, um, it's very unfortunate and and the wildlife and and just the trees are coming down and it's it's just disheartening, but the other the other thing that that Legacy brought I feel and and this might aggravate it is I know there are traffic studies about going on W Creek Road, but as for those of us who exit Picosen to work in Hampton or Yorktown or whatnot. Uh the traffic has really blown up on Victory. Uh and so this will add to it. And I think if you work in Hampton and you go down further with Creek Road and over the the bridge or the causeway there, uh that's going to be backed up in my opinion. And I think the uh intersection at W Creek and Victory, I think that'll really back up off of the the W Creek end. Uh, I know it's only 66 units or whatever, but I'm guessing that's probably about 120 140 cars, something like that. So, um, yeah, those are those are my concerns as far as the traffic. It's more than just getting out on W Creek Road, which is a challenge in itself. I think it it just bleeds into more on um on Victory and Whit Creek going into Hampton and then uh just whether it's an HOA or not and just about the uh shall we say the the image for Picosen and making sure that it's a natural community and so on and uh I just think we're losing that. Thank you.

Thank you. Hey, Chairwoman, I have a question for Mr. John. Oh, yes. May I have your last name, sir? Oh, sure. Last name is Foden. F O Den. Fod. F O D N. And what's your address, sir? Uh, One Barrel Factory Court. Thank you. Mhm.

I was just going to say as part of the site plan process, which Mr. Moses will need to go through. If there are areas of common area that's being managed by homes association, we're going to want a copy of those documents as part of that. Who else would like to speak this evening? Yes, sir. Hi. Uh, my name is Rob Carter. Um, just a quick question regarding ownership that maybe he can answer. Um, you're saying they have to be owned by someone who's 65 or older?

55. 55. Sorry. Um, but will there be some kind of in the the purchase or whatever that they can't rent, lease or use it as a like a B&B where people could be less than 55. So just I'm just curious about that because that seems to be happening a lot. People are investing in properties but then not living there. So Mr. Carter, may I have your address, please? Yeah, I'm in 11 Oakmore. Who else would like to speak?

Randy Neil, 7 Oakmore. I just wanted to echo support that uh we all moved to Picosen because it's a a warm community. We wanted to remain that way. I was interested and it would be a question uh right now the traffic patterns are altered. We all know that through detours because the Wyatt Creek uh bridge and I'm wondering if that affect the traffic studies. I don't know when those traffic studies were done, but if they were done this year, you already know the pattern's been altered. Thank you. Anybody else? Seeing no one else, I'm going to close the public hearing. Um, regarding the traffic impact studies, um, if I can get you to come back up here, I will share with you in our packet the traffic impact studies as well as some other commissioners have shared. They were very hard to read uh, with the colors. I it was that text to me um, was a little unrecognizable at times.

Okay. Sorry about that. Um, one thing that I did note was in your VOTE, uh, it looks like it's a chapter 527 study, um, traffic impact, uh, prescope work. You're talking about in the appendix. Yes. Mhm. Um, was at 34 town homes and 12 duplex. That's correct. Okay. But what you all are proposing is 38 town homes and 28 duplexes.

Sure. So, that form is just a standard form that we use for scoping. There's a lot of assumptions, growth rates, what area we're going to study, all that. So, when we first reached out to staff to scope the document to make sure that we were on the same page, it was a smaller development at the time. It increased, I think, 14 units, whatever the the delta is between those two. And so, we revised that. And if I may address the gentleman's concern, Yes, please. I assume that would be coming up next. Yes, sir. So, the traffic counts were conducted last year. Again, we've been doing this for a while. It was in September, the middle of September last year. Okay. Were they done over multiple days? No, just one day. Yeah, they're conducted typically on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. Okay. All right. Thank you.

Any other questions about the traffic study? Or does that answer your question? Yes. Just a quick overall question. The scope of the study, was it primarily focused on just the ingress andress from the study site? Yes. Correct. Okay. Just one one thought here. Uh 66 units. My guess is it would be approximately two cars per unit or slightly less than that. Does that sound about right?

So it's a little different than that. So we use something called the or IT or Institute of Transportation Engineers. That's a federal standard that for all states. This is what VOTE uses. Everyone's adopted it. In this case, we're using the most current, the 11th edition. And what they've done is since the 1970s, they've surveyed sites with different land uses. And so based on whatever land use it is you based on square footage or number of fueling positions at a gas station, what have you, they can tell you what the average trip generation is for that. So that's what's based on it. And if you look at page, there's a trip generation table. Um, if you look at page 11, it's going to be table two and you'll see the heading is it trip generation typical weekday 11th edition. What you'll see there is the land use code 215 which is single family attached which is what this would fall into. There's not a differentiation between condos, town homes, duplexes, whatever. They're still uh considered single family attached dwelling units. You'll see what would the site would produce per day and the AM peak hour and then the PM peak hour. And that gives you also the breakdown between ingress and egress. And that's where those numbers came from.

These are just sort of standard methodology things we do across the board. Any other questions? Thank you. Great. Um speaking to the uh 10 seconds for the cars leaving and 8 seconds or coming back. I mean, but it's fair to assume that uh you that builds on each one, right? You mean 10 seconds for that car, 10 seconds behind car behind that? No. No.

So, so that's the average. So, um the easiest way to I think explain it would be kind of like a stop light. You might be approaching a stoplight and it's green and you have no delay. You just sail right through. I I might get there, my luck, and it's just turning yellow. And so, I have to sit for the full cycle. I might wait a minute and a half, two minutes for that total cycle to go through. But if you average us together, that's that's where you would get the delay from. Same with this. If there was a gap in traffic, someone may not even stop. They might just make the left or the right depending on which way we talked about the left earlier for the 10 seconds. Um or you may actually be there 15 20 seconds if you have if the light to the north for instance were to release a platoon of vehicles coming south. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. Any other questions?

Thank you. All right. Thanks, Mr. Moses. There were two uh questions asked by citizens. Would you care to address those, please? Yes. So, I I think uh Mr. Horton addressed the HOA. If we do have a homeowners association, which I I'm anticipating we will, then there will be an agreement that all the the owners buy into and have to sign upon purchase or closing on the purchase of the property. And um home ownership versus rentals being able to rent out,

right? So, so the idea is not to have a whole family living there, not to have children living there. We we are not putting a playground there for children, and we don't anticipate buses there. Um, I'm not sure how to tell an owner. They can't have someone younger than 55 living there unless there's some type of I don't know. I don't know how to do that. I'm open to suggestions, but Additionally, I think um the uh gentleman also asked about those being used as a B&B and in rentals for um short-term rentals, I think, is what he's referring to. Uh would you care to speak to that?

We we don't seek that use. And so if we need to put something in the HOA or sign whatever legal document uh that's allowed by law, I'll have to consult an attorney as to what we're allowed to to put into there. But we also passed an ordinance last year, right, short-term rentals that basically made a condition, right, uh districts only this would not be a business, right? and but wanted to capture uh the citizens concern. So, sure. That good. Okay. Thank you.

I'm going to close the public hearing. Uh love to hear your thoughts. I really appreciate that a lot of work has been done in this project and I think it's going to be uh fairly attractive to live as a pedestrian that close to the cafe, the bank, the uh grocery store. Uh so that brings something positive to the uh community that we have very much of u you know not in quantity. Um legacy is a little bit of a a track from uh walking position. So I I think it uh eventually will be a very special environment for people to live in. So you want to consider supporting

Edgar.

I spent quite a bit of time today looking at the comprehensive plan and uh specifically the housing section and the strategies and recommendations associated with the central district. And it was mentioned several times about the need for housing for citizens that are over the age of 65 or 55 or the desire um that resonated with me. Um and affordable housing, you know, that's a big topic uh nationwide. So I think it checks the box for those two in a you know this land has been sitting here for quite some time now and um appears to be a pretty solid plan to to put put it to good use. Um so with that being said uh I'm like Mr. Peterson Mr. Uh I echo my my fellow commissioners comments. Uh it looks like it's uh well thought out and certainly has some level of attractness attractiveness. Um I I I do have a a a pretty significant concern about the architectural aspects and what it does to the feel of the area. uh given that it was meant to be a commercial area and particularly that the spot the means of ingress and egress at the right at Wick Creek where those buildings those town homes come up. So that's that's kind of where I'm stuck with that with uh how to figure that out. Um uh think that's that's kind of my sticking point right now.

Go ahead. Um this is a difficult one because um anyone that invests in our town is a hero to me and I know it's hard um it's hard anywhere and um and I understand that you have tried to uh build commercial you know there and it hasn't worked out. Um, with that said, we have specific zoning in specific areas for for specific reasons. And I don't see how what I'm seeing here, uh, that's what we've been trying to do. Um, you know, I hear the whole affordable housing thing, I don't I didn't hear that at all come up in any of the presentation. And, uh, let's let's face it. I mean, it's going to sell. Anything here is going to sell for as much as they can sell it for. And that right now the going rate seems to be about a half million bucks a picosum. So and um you know as far as the taxing goes we make way more money off of a uh commercial entity than we would uh a home. I mean that's just a mathematical fact. And uh you know school I mean this obviously won't affect supposed to be 55 and over which I'm not um hearing too much about how that's going to be enforced but uh you know it's not going to bring more kids in. I know the school is way under. Legacy only brought in like less than 50 kids over the three schools. So, I just don't see how this fits what we're trying to do. Um, that's just where I stand on it. Um, well, I certainly appreciate the the time and the the money that you've invested in this application. I probably understand that probably more than anyone. Um, and I also understand the frustrations you've probably felt over the years trying to market uh this parcel. Um,

but I'm a a very staunch fan of commercial development in Vicosen and we and we need it. I know it's hard to get it here. um I haven't seen a good effort put forth anyone to really market that from my perspective and uh specifically um your parcel, Mr. Moses, I think it's probably the best opportunity for any future commercial development to come into this city anytime soon. Um, and I would hate to relinquish that to more residential development. Unfortunately, I can't offer my approval application. So, I'm trying to get my thoughts together as to what I'm going to say. Um, I looked at your application. you can tell with all the flags here. Um, and I understand um I understand uh everything that you've presented tonight. Your you know your presentation is good and and I appreciate that cuz quite often we don't all get that. However, I can't support your application this evening. other commissioners. Um, so

Commissioner Armen Trout, I'm sorry. Do we need to make a motion? Just the motion is denied. I'm sorry. Please forgive my ignorance. I don't know what to do in this game. We have a motion right now. A motion for approval. It's which obviously is not going to pass. I can see that but there are some people for it. Perhaps they could motion second it and then we could all have a vote. Correct. I Right. Thank you. So can I have a motion? So moved. And that is is that a motion to approve? I have a second.

Second. I have a roll call, please. Thank you. Commissioner Armen Trout, nay. Commissioner Hartley, nay. Commissioner Hirs, no. Commissioner Peterson, I. Commissioner Jerger, I. Chairwoman Shot, nay. The motion is denied. Mr. ordinance. We're going to uh go to the next section which is the comprehensive plan amendment. Yes.

Got the floor. That's usually the comprehensive plan amendment. is to uh is to basically bring these four properties under a designation of R3 instead of what they are now village commercial. Uh that would that would include uh 271086 2710 O87 uh 27 01 O00 5 and 2709 O2. Um I think uh you know the reason why we would do this comprehensive plan amendment would be to bring it into conformance with what we recommend that the zoning be. Of course, you know, we've always wanted to get the comprehensive plan and the zoning uh align. The only thing I'd really say about the comprehensive plan is that apparently on the uh 2018 map, Samaria and that and up in up in the area of uh uh the fountains showed to still be general commercial or where basically there's a motion on record that shows it being re uh redesated as village commercial. But uh you know it seems like to me

the planning commission may have made their decision on that already but you do have a separate you do have a separate motion Mr. Horton on the Yes. Um can I just pause your presentation? Yes.

A clarification um that was just brought to my attention and I appreciate that. Um a failed motion to approved is not an approved motion to recommend against. So what we have to do is since we did not approve it, we will have to make another motion to deny the application and then it will have to be voted accordingly. So with that being said, do I have a motion to deny the application? like to make a motion. Do I have a second? Second. Can I have a roll call, please? Commissioner Armen Trout, I.

Commissioner Hartley, I. Commissioner Hirsch, I. Commissioner Peterson, I. Commissioner Jagger, I. Chairwoman Shot, I. Motion is approved. The motion passes. Thank you. Thank you. Now, please proceed. Thank you.

All right. Uh the application was advertised for public hearing in a daily press on February 4th and February 11th, 2026. Excuse me. Adjacent property owners were notified of this request by letters mailed on February 4th. Comprehensive plan amendment that is uh all stored properties designated as village commercial. um and they're proposed to be redesated as high density residential as as I explained before with the credential use the highest density residential district we have is the R3 district. So again it would be limited to 12 units per acre. Um parcels bordered by village commercial comprehensive plan designation to the west and extreme northwest. General commercial designation across Alpha Street to the north uh Posen Common Shopping Center and Grass area. General commercial designations for Langley Federal Credit Union and TGA's respectively and additional general commercial designation to the east and south. Uh above the southern boundary line of the two west of the two westernmost properties is an area of high density residential and that's the Oxford Run LLC community. Uh as we as we know the site is going to be accessed directly from W Creek Road and Alpha Street. Um the comprehensive landings map and this was what I was trying to explain before uh before I got my PowerPoint up in May uh 2012 uh resolution did redd designate this entire area as village commercial. uh not despite what the comprehensive map says. I think what happened what

likely happened is when the comprehensive plan map was revised, it just simply missed this resolution that came through. But uh anyway, this is the area in question. Uh and this is sort of the longer view of it. And of course, you had the vicinity map that pretty much shows properties involved. Um, unless there are any other questions, uh, you know, I'll take your questions.

Wally, can you refresh on high density residential? High density residential is a designation that we have in the comprehensive plan. The only thing high density residential that we have currently on the books in the zoning ordinance is the R3 residential district which is what Mr. Moses applied to go to right tonight. Okay.

Uh and again that's capped at 12 units per acre. There's open space requirements as Mr. Moses pointed out. Of course there's parking requirements as well. So when we say high density, we're we're perhaps not talking about New York or any bigger city where, you know, you might have, you know, any number of units crawled crammed into an acre. Uh here we have a limit of 12. Thought that would be helpful because people hear that. Sure. Yes. Questions. Questions.

Questions. Thank you. Seeing no questions by planning, do I have a motion and the comprehensive plan?

I'll make a motion to approve to approve. So, ma'am, I'm sorry. Um I think Oh, go ahead. I think the I understand that motion would be not to amend the comprehensive

right the the motion to approve will get I don't know how many votes or even if we're going to have a motion to approve it and then we would do as M Okonnell suggested appro uh disapprove I was under impression we were good with we talked about here. So that's okay. Yeah. Just wanted to give you a whole question. I'll be under the weather for uh so excuse me. Hey, um I thought what we're talking about is ending the comprehensive plan to modify commercial to R3. Is that correct?

Yes, sir. Chairwoman Shot, did you want to open the um public hearing? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. You're keeping me on my toes. Uh I'd like to open the public hearing this evening. Would anybody like to speak to this? Seeing none, I'm going to close the public hearing. So, would it be appropriate to make a motion? All right. Uh, I'll offer a motion to approve.

So, specifically, that's I think we was village commercial. We're amending it. Village commercial to R3. Correct. Right. That's what's on the floor. Second. Second. Roll call. Commissioner Armen Trout. Uh, nay. Commissioner Hartley. Commissioner Hirs. Nay. Commissioner Peterson. I. Commissioner Joerger. I. Chairwoman Shot. I. The motion denied. Seeing that motion, can I have a motion to deny the amendment to the comprehensive plan?

Motion to deny. Do I have a second? Second. Can I have a roll call, please? Commissioner Armen, I. Commissioner Hartley, I. Commissioner Hirsch, I. Commissioner Peterson, a. Commissioner Joerger. Hey. Chairwoman shot. I.

The motion passes. Now we're going to move uh to item G and our communications and correspondence. Just for clarity at home, we did take this out of order this evening uh to consider the uh the amendments to the comp plan with the legacy uh north project calling it uh before this. So we are going to move into communications and correspondence by our planning commission this evening and like to start with Mr. Horton. Uh, I don't really have anything tonight except to say that Taylor Stewart was approved by the uh, city council.

Welcome to the other end of the planning commission. Uh, I have no comments, but thank you. Comments? No. Go ahead, Mr. I'd just like to say that uh no matter what the issues are in front of us, it's all nice to see a full room in here and engagement from the community. So appreciate that.

I'd like to echo that. Thanks everyone for coming out. Um, Wally, I would like to, you know, one of the things that additional methods and means to other than the daily press. I feel like um

I got a feel like a lot of people really didn't know what out tonight, especially us. We just got this and uh and we didn't even have a could have been better advertised. I don't know what those means. kind of good stuff coming here in the next few days on social media that anyway this my thoughts maybe we can explore another option critical as as this

we'll also have a work test next time we have something this size thank those that came out this evening and, you know, let your voices be heard. That's what we're here for and try to take into consideration. Um, I appreciate you all uh serving alongside of me on planning commission and welcome Laura to the other side. Um, I with seeing no other comments this evening, I have a motion to adjourn the meeting. Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second. We have a roll call, please. Commissioner Armen Trout. Hi. Commissioner Hartley. Hi. Commissioner Hirs. Hi. Commissioner Pet Commissioner Peterson.

Hi. Commissioner Jerger. Hi. Chairwoman shot. Hi. Motion passes. We are journ. Thank you.