City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening. Welcome to all. This coen city council meeting is called to order. I'm very encouraged to have a great crowd tonight. Means a great deal to us when people come out and pay attention to what we're doing. And I can assure you that the decision before us tonight uh has been discussed and debated at length. We have spent countless hours going through this. But means a great deal to have y'all with us. Uh as I look around, I see most of the department heads from city staff. See lots of city employees. Thank y'all so much for being here. I see uh board chair, school board chair, Dr. Chris Burbage. see most of the school board members as well. Thank you all for being here. Superintendent Tilllet, thank you for being here. Uh Miss Miguel as well. Very much appreciate it. And of course, we got our uh old faithful, Mr. Paul Schubert back there. So, thank you for being here as well as others from the general public. So, with that being said, we'll move on to item B, invocation, pledge of allegiance, which will be led tonight by Vice Mayor Deb. Please stand with me, please. Dear Lord, we enter your gates with thanksgiving and praise in our hearts tonight. For you are worthy to be praised above all. Father, I ask that you grant us knowledge and wisdom to deliberate on the items that's set before us tonight. Um I pray that you would be with each of the workers that are represented here tonight. Dear Lord, keep them safe as duty for the city. Be with each council member, Father. as we work together to sometimes agree to disagree, sometime to share each other's perspectives. I thank you that we work together and we do that respectfully. Father, we ask these things in your name. We thank you. Amen.

May we say the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

Thank you, Debbie. Moving on to item C, audience for visitors. At this time, we will open the floor for public comment related to the city except for the school board appointments that will be addressed in just a few minutes when we get to the public hearing. Being none, we will close the floor and move on to item D, approval of the minutes of the work session of April 27th, 2026. Do we have a motion and a second? So move, Mr. Mayor. Second. Thank you. Any questions or comments? Christie, call for vote, please. Councilman Southpaw, I. Councilman Freeman, I. Councilwoman Hubard, hi. Vice Mayor Bunting, hi. Councilman Fi, I. Councilwoman EMTT,

I. Mayor Hugs, I. Mr. Mayor, motion carried by a vote of 7 to zero. Thank you, Christie. Move on to approval of the minutes of the regular session of April 27th, 2026. Do we have a motion in a second? No move, Mr. Mayor. Second. Thank you. Questions or comments? Christie. Councilwoman EMTT. I Councilwoman Hover, Councilman Five. I, Councilman Southhaul, I, Vice Mayor Hunting, I, Councilman Freeman, I, Mayor Hugs, I, Mr. Mayor, the motion carried by a vote of 7 to zero.

Thank you, Christie. Uh, moving on to item E is a public hearing. Uh, we have one item or one topic tonight related to school board appointments. And please note, there's no council action required on this tonight. At this time, we will open the public hearing. I'll call on our city clerk, Miss Christy Snap. She has a briefing for us. Uh afterwards, we'll have a a period for questions and comments from council members. And since it is a public hearing, we'll open the floor for public comment related to this topic. With that, uh Christie,

thank you, sir. I have the applicants that I have received by 4:30 today for the atlarge and eastern positions for the school board. The atlarge position have Michael Dose, Caitlyn Oresbornne, Joseph Kachchamelio, Britney Snap, Gabrielle Lingenfelder, Bradley Alger. For the Eastern precinct, I have Cara Joyce, Caitlyn Johnson, and Lauren Gilbert. Thank you, Christie. Uh, and with that, I'll open the floor for public comment related to this topic. Seeing none, uh, we will close the floor and close the public hearing. And moving on to item F, unfinished business. We have one topic tonight with three ordinances. This is the second reading and final adoption of the fiscal year 2027 annual financial plan. Uh, the first ordinance is establishing the tax rate for real estate. Second ordinance establishes the tax rate for personal property and the third ordinance appropriates the funds for fiscal year 27 proposed annual financial plan. As I said earlier, this is the most important decision that the council will make on an annual basis. And this time around, uh it's been particularly difficult and complex. Uh during my time as a school board member and my time on council, this is my 15th budget and this is by far the most complex and the most difficult. I consider it to be my duty uh and my solemn obligation to explain clearly to the community my position on these

ordinances and how I arrived at at these positions. Um, and I I would hope that my fellow council members would feel the same way. Uh, afterwards, we'll have an opportunity for all council members to do just that. But at this time, please forgive me and bear with me. My comments are lengthy, but I think it's important and necessary to provide a detailed description and a very thorough amount of context so everybody understands what we're dealing with this year. And when I say constituents, that includes all all of our citizens and certainly our city employees and our school employees. The budget this year has three factors beyond our control that are contributing to the difficulty. Um I'll address those three uh in just a minute. Uh I want to provide some context as well for the development of the manager's recommended budget. And this goes back to January 4th of 2025 when this council had our first ever strategic plan and retreat. And this is something that all council members contributed to. But one of our strategic initiatives was to commit to enhancing public employee compensation through targeted efforts in the annual budget process. When we talk about public employees, that includes all city employees and all school employees here. Look out for everybody uh as best we can. But when the manager began the development of his recommended

budget, he did that based on input from all council members during our February 2026 budget retreat which was open to the public and all were encouraged to attend. It also included input from work sessions, individual meetings with the manager, discussions between individual council members, and lot lots of phone calls between individual council members as well. The manager's recommended budget includes an extra million17,000 for public city public schools. Provide some context on that. Late last calendar year, the council approved a carryover of $1.6 million for the schools. Uh the manager and I met on two occasions with Chair Burbage and Superintendent Tilllet uh and expressed that due to circumstances beyond our control, that $1.6 million may well be all the additional money that we could provide to the schools for the foreseeable future. mainly because of these factors beyond our control. But due to the diligence and expertise of of our staff, um we've been able to overcome that burden and we have been able to include that million7,000 this year's fiscal year or fiscal year 2027 budget. And although and I I want to repeat my comments from two weeks ago at the joint work session. While council by no means dictates to the school board how to invest the money that we provide to the school system, it is our intent because we're here to look out for all public employees. It is our intent and our desire that a portion of that million7,000 goes towards pay increases for school

employees as well. And I'll talk a little bit more later on about pay raises for city employees which is dear to my heart. Three factors beyond our control. Factor number one are the tax exemptions for disabled veterans. I want to be crystal clear on this. We're a patriotic community going back to 2010. This was a referendum on the ballot to amend the Virginia state constitution to to put in into place this disabled veteran tax exemption program. uh being a patriotic community, my research indicates that this city voted about 86% in favor of that. And I personally remember voting for it. I just couldn't remember the year. I had to look that up. Uh it's it's been a while. But we certainly believe in the program. It's a great program, but it's an unfunded state mandate. This year, the impact of that totals $2.7 million. We added a half million dollars to it this year. We added threequarters of a million dollars to it last year. And that we have no reason to believe that's going to slow down anytime soon. Have no idea what it may be next year, but the line on the graph uh is a very steep incline up. Uh what we need since it's an unfunded state mandate, we need some support from the general assembly to offset the impacts of the program at the local level. I can assure you that currently uh there are efforts underway at the regional level in the Hampton Roads region and regions across the state that he that are

heavily impacted by this. in particular up to I95, but Picosen is probably the most impacted locality state of Virginia all things considered. And you can take pride in the fact that that regional and statewide effort started upstairs in the Picosa city manager conference room and a discussion between the manager self. So that started right here with us. So hope hope y'all are pleased with that. Nobody thought that it would get any traction this year. Hopefully by next year it will. We're cautiously optimistic, but we'll have to wait and see. Factor number two, the increases in employee health insurance cost to the city. It increased this year by 19.2%. 2% which totals $563,000 since last year. Staff is already working on that to see if we can identify solutions for next year. This year we have no control over it. And the the third factor beyond our control is the increased local composite index for Picosen City Public Schools. The LCI is a calculation that the state uses to measure the locality's ability to support their own school system. State recognizes this city as an affluent community. So this year they raised our LCI which has created a reduction in state funding for Picosen City Schools three quarters of a million dollars.

LCI is calculated on a bianual basis. So that offers us the advantage of that will be a known figure this year um next year. Uh we just found out about it around Thanksgiving of last year and it is what it is. We have no control over it, but at least next year we we know in advance what it'll be. We combine those three factors together that we can't control, that's $4 million of headwind that we're dealing with when we initially start the budget development. If it were not for those three factors and we had that $4 million, uh we wouldn't be having this discussion tonight because we would have ample money to provide significant pay raise public employees uh with money left over to deal with other needs of the city. Because of that, based on my request, I requested for the city manager to include in the meeting packet for tonight three amended budget ordinances. And based on discussions that I've had with individual council members, although it's certainly no guarantee and I don't know how the vote is going to turn out tonight, uh I believe that there was enough confidence that I asked the manager to provide those ordinances. And when I complete this explanation, I intend to make a motion tonight. It will include a three penny tax rate increase which will enable us

if we can pass it to provide a 10% pay increase for city employees. That being said, hold that thought for just a minute. manager's original budget that was released on October 13th included a one penny tax rate increase with some extra money that our assistant city manager and acting finance director uh identified. That's uh Miss Tanya O'Connell, Miss Rob Bellamy, by the way. So, thank you ladies for your work. Along with they were able to identify some extra money. So, for the for the increase of one penny for the tax rate, we could provide an extra 5% pay raise for city employees. At the time, I was pretty happy with that that we could do something fairly significant and only raise the tax rate by one penny. Uh since April 13th, uh we got wind of what York County was planning on doing for their employees in the way of pay. It was rumor uh that became law week ago tonight and it'll go into effect on July the 1st. But the York County supervisors adopted their fiscal year 27 budget that'll provide what I would characterized as massive pay increases for their employees. And I also want to note that currently Picosen City employees are the lowest paid employees around. And I

I will say that as mayor of this city, this premium community, I'm ashamed of that. I'm embarrassed by that. And I'm motivated to do my part. I'm only one. I'm motivated to do my part to make things better because I believe that our employees deserve better and I think we owe it to them. And I I'll I'll go on from there. While we understand that because of limited capability that we have in this community, we cannot match our neighbors. I don't see any way that we can ever achieve parity. But we we don't have to fall farther and farther behind. and the manager assures me that the other major players in the area uh being mainly Hampton, Newport News, James City, uh Williamsburg will probably match and maybe even exceed what New York County has done. And all localities compete for the same employees and everybody wants to have the most qualified, most capable employees. And Picosen is certainly no exception to that. And although we cannot achieve par, I do believe that we can take steps as as I'll describe in a while to prevent the disparity between our employees and our neighboring localities uh from increasing. Right now there's a gap. If we don't take steps this year, that gap is only going to widen. hard as it is to deal with this year, if we kick the can down the road, it's not going to get any easier in years to come. So, my feeling is we strike while the iron's hot and we deal with it as best we can.

And this 10% that I support, 10% pay increase for city employees, that's not going to achieve par. We are so far behind that even with that, we're still going to be way behind. just not as far behind and not as far below market value. Randy has compiled some comparisons for us and just to quantify and give y'all an idea of what we're dealing with. I want to go through a few of these because the this was eyeopening. These figures are based on the manager's uh proposed budget that included the 4% originally. So those figures are are here, but I want to focus on the differences between us and York County based on the budget that they have just adopted. I'll start with police officers and firefighters. difference in the starting rate is $8,500 a year. As as you work up the scale and get to the midpoint, that only increases and it gets worse from there. The difference at the midpoint is 126. Also, in the city, we don't have a step program, so employees can climb up scale within their position. York County and and other localities do equipment operator. York County starts them out at $10,000 a year more than we do. The midpoint $15,000 a year. Senior accountant

York County starts them at $13,400 more than we do at the midpoint. $22,000. chief of planning and notice the difference as as we get up in into the administrative chief of planning. York County starting pay is $30,000 a year more than us $45,000 at the midpoint. Pay close attention to this one. This is not a direct uh comparison because we have one assistant city man. York County has an assistant county administrator and a deputy county administrator. So I'll start with the lowest one. York County's assistant county administrator starts out at $80,000 more a year than our assistant city manager. That that's it. $80,000. While we understand we can't match, but we have to compete with this. And there's no way in the world that we can maintain the standards that we've come to appreciate and respect in this community if we cannot hire highly qualified, highly capable employees. Deputy county administrator, they start out at $88,000 a year more than our assistant city manager. Midpoint's 125,000. Think about what I said a minute ago. I'm embarrassed by this building official. $28,000 284 actually starting out 42 grand at the midpoint. Assessor, as it's been explained to me in the state of Virginia, a good assessor is hard to come by. There's a lot of competition out there for assessors. Uh we're very fortunate. We have a very

highly regarded assessor. She's here with us tonight, Miss Stephanie Love and her uh deputy assessor, Miss Christina Staples. They are highly regarded professionals and we are very fortunate to have them. But the fact of the matter is uh York County starts them out at $53,000 a year more than we do. Midpoint 77,000. Finance director. Uh, as I said earlier, and I've expressed my appreciation previously uh to Miss Robin Bellamy uh for being kind enough to come back out of retirement on a part-time basis temporarily to act as our finance. So, we haven't had a permanent finance director in in several months now. Uh, and there's a reason why. And needless to say, I mean, we can't go on but for so long without finance director. D County starts out finance directors at 64,000 well $65,000 a year more than we do. Midpoint $92,000 a year more. So that's the reality of it. That's what we're up against and that's what we're competing with when we're trying to hire highly qualified, highly capable employees. come to work every day that that make the city what it is. We are a premium community. We're exceptional community. Two main reasons. Number one, grace of God. Number two, our staff that comes to work every day. If it was not for them, and we sit here at this dis all the time talking about how much we love our employees, how great our employees are, how much we appreciate them. Well, tonight we have the opportunity to put some action to those words because at some point if we don't our words,

another problem we run into with our staff is we don't have any depth of talking about the assessor. We have two York County, they have a whole department. We have two assessors, assessor, deputy assessor. Um, our engineering department, two mighty thankful to get to to just get Paul. Uh, reason we're able to get Paul. Paul just retired from the military. He's a civil servant. Uh, he's got his federal retirement coming in so he can come work for us at a discount price. So that that's an unusual exception, but glad to have you, Paul. Very thankful. But we have an engineering department of two. You know, we don't have any depth or overlap. Uh right now, because we're short staffed in the finance department, uh you can probably predict this and finish my sentence. Other people that are already busy are having to help out with the finance. What choice do we have? So those are the factors that we have no control over. We need to focus I believe on the things that we can control. And nobody likes a tax increase including us. Whatever decisions that we make affects us just like affects everybody else. And I've been around here long enough that most people know my background. I come from a very blue collar background. I retired from the shipyard. I spent 12 years as an hourly shipboard mechanic getting secondderee burns all the time and foreign matter dug out of my eye with a needle. Uh but I was able to transfer over to to a design job which was salaried. I retired from there but by choice I was not management. So I was very much very much rank and file employee.

Retired as a York County high school teacher. We're just ordinary people. Um, three of our four f three of our four grandfathers were retired farmers. The fourth was a commercial warden that worked in the shipyard as well. We're just ordinary people. But I believe that there's no better way to to invest our tax revenue than in our people. and the the relatively small amount that a three penny rate increase would would would cause on us as individuals to me is a small price to pay. I think it would be a very large uh return on our investment. Uh, I also want to make it perfectly clear because I've already already heard rumors in the community that the council's going to provide a big raise for themselves. Well, let me let me clarify that whatever pay increases we do will absolutely not include Picosen city council members. And let me quantify. I think y'all find this interesting as well. This is something that's not commonly known because it doesn't get talked about a lot. It's not a big deal to us. because we're volunteer public servants. Uh we serve because of what we can give, not for what we can get, but just to quantify that Possen City M council members receive a monthly stipen of $100 and that's subject to state and federal income tax. In addition, well, let me let me I forgot one thing. Bayer gets the extra $25 a month uh which is also subject to state and federal tax deductions in addition to our duties here in Picosen. All seven of us represent the city at

the regional level on various boards, commissions and committees. A lot of these meetings take place over in the regional building in the green brower section of Chesapeake. Uh although there are occasional exceptions, the rule with thumb is Picosen city council member provide personal vehicles uh for all of our uh government responsibilities. No city council members, including the mayor, uh has an office at city hall. And since January of 2025, the Picosa mayor's office is my living room. And I got city stuff scattered from wall to wall. So, I can't use it for anything else, but that's okay. That's what we sign up to do. Coastland City Council members also provide u personal home computers, personal printers, little bit of paper, little bit of ink, not much, but it is not free. But we do provide free internet service, uh free phone service, and free phones, uh at no charge to the city, and we're glad to do it. happy to do it and we're thankful for the opportunity. But to provide some comparison since I compared Picosen to York County and other localities, let me compare Picosen to uh the York County Board of Supervisors uh the Hampton City Council in the new based on my best research, York County Board of Supervisors uh receive a stipen of $9,000 a year. Uh the the chair receives $10,800 a year. This is where it gets interesting. Uh when we go over to Hampton, uh their city council members make $43,000 a year. Their mayor makes $47,000 a year. So when you want to do a comparison,

they're uh about 45 times what? Not two or three times or nine or 10 times, 45 times. No complaints from us. We're glad to do it. wouldn't have it any wouldn't have it any other way. Uh if if somebody proposed a pay increase for us, I I would be the one screaming the loudest against it. We that's not what we what we're about. Um now getting to Newport News, their city council members get 47,000 a year and their mayor gets 51,000. Uh ju just fact. But want to make it clear to the community whatever appraises we do do not include Picosen city council members. Back in 2018, city council adopted a budget increase the real estate tax rate by seven p talking about three pennies this year. We did seven pennies that year. Reason we did that was to fund the middle school modernization which was way overdue and desperately needed. I was a student there from 1977 1981 and a whole lot of the same things were right there all all those decades later. We desperately needed to do that. So, we had to borrow the money to to fund that and we also needed to borrow some money to complete some city capital improvement projects. So, it required a seven penny increase. explained it clearly to the community and as an individual council member. I can't speak for anybody else, but me personally, in spite of that 7 penny tax

increase, I heard not one single negative comment from the community because they understood it needed to be done. I believe that's the case this time even though we're only talking about a three penny. But when we did the seven penny, the rate went to $114. That was about 2018 and here we are eight years later. The rate's still 14. At a dollar 14 where we are today might not be after by the first uh that's not the highest rate in the Hampton Rose region or the second highest or the third or fourth highest. It's the fifth highest though have to acknowledge our property values in Picosen uh are the second highest in the region and among among the highest in the state. So we have to ask ourselves why is that? Why are our property values so high? The answer is easy. Because we have great schools, we have high levels of public safety. We have a high quality and quantity of city services in that wonderful small town environment that that we're so blessed to have and we're so like I said earlier this goes around in one great big circle. Why do those things exist? Because of our employees, our public employees that come to work every day and make it happen. That's why. So if we ever fail to invest properly and allow all those things to cl decline for anybody that doesn't like the high property values that we have my belief is property values will decline. That's that's just a fact of life. Another fact of life we get what we pay for. That's just how it is.

Even if we do adopt this budget to increase the rate by three pennies, we'll move up to fourth in the region. Porchmouth, Chesapeake, Suffuk will still be ahead of us. Porchmouth is 30, so they're way ahead of us. The council talks all the time about alternative increasing the tax rates. One way to do that is to expand the business tax. That's a very tall order. Reason it's a tall order is because we're on a comm. We're on a peninsula. Two ways in, two ways out. We get no through traffic. I believe that citizens for the most part like it just like it's very hard for us to attract and retain business. doesn't stop us from trying and our staff stand ready at any time to assist. But in our free market economy in this country, local governments cannot put businesses. We hear that, too. Why don't y'all put a Starbucks in? Why don't y'all put a Chick-fil-A in? We can't put a business anywhere. That's what private enterprise does. But we're here to help. Goen doesn't own buildings. have a hard time getting the business owners to call us back. They can be quite difficult to work with at times. The Wells Fargo building council went to great lengths and approved permits, everything that was needed in short order to get the monastery school in the Wells Fargo building. We we shephered that along right up to the last minute. The business owners backed out. What could we do? Disappointing to us. took a small miracle to get to Planet Fitness and that almost didn't happen. So that's that's how hard it is. Now one example

where we were successful with expanding business tax base was the my storage building year before last. That is a textbook example of expanding the business tax base in business district. all probably well aware of the negative uproar in the community over that. So, we got the stuffing beat out of us because we expanded the business tax base and a lot of that was directed at me personally by name because I was running for mayor while that was taking a year to build. Uh the Pentagon was built in less time by the way. uh just a just a little tidbit uh to to consider. That didn't help us any, but that's what we're up against when we try to expand a business tax base. Another alternative to a tax increase is to eliminate or reduce quantity and quality of city services. We do a lot of things that we're not required to do, but these are the things that add to the quality of life and make us an exceptional premium community. We might get to that point one day. I don't believe we're there yet. I don't support that yet. Hope it doesn't get to that point. Uh next year's reassessment year and we'll we'll we'll see what happens with that. But I already talked about those factors beyond our control. And I also like I stated earlier, the market determines value. The assessor does not. The assessor measures market value. So Steph, I I'll repeat that again once y'all get into it. uh next year.

In preparing for this meeting, uh another concept came up late last week that I must never occur to me, but uh this was identified by our human resources director, uh Miss Kat Register. Actually, the second part, I was aware of the first part. Uh two weeks ago at our council meeting, uh Mr. Freeman asked Randy how many city vacancies we had. At the time, I think it was six or seven. Yes, sir. Uh is it still 13? Yes, sir.

Uh two two weeks later, it went from 6 or 7 to 13 uh with with another one pending. So that's how fast that's increased in in two weeks time. As of right now, we have 13 vacancies, have 137 full-time employees. This number was astonishing to me. Out of that 137, 44 of our employees feel the need to engage in outside employment on top of their full-time positions. City of Picosen. That's onethird. a third ofes need to work a second job. Now, I cannot tell you the reasons why. I don't know if it's somebody that just likes working and wants to make some extra money or if it's department head, I'm sorry, heads of household that need to do that to make ends meet. I don't know. We we don't have records on that. But we do know that a third of our workforce feels the need uh to see additional employment. I I personally think that's that's a sad figure. Unless for some reason people just like working and would rather spend time away from their families. Um I don't think if you visit a cemetery ever see a pat on a tombstone that says I wish I would have worked more. That concludes my comments. Uh I hope I've been clear and concise. I apologize for the length. Uh my goal was to provide thorough context as to where we

are and explain my position and how I arrived at this position. My intent is to make a motion as I described earlier. Uh this motion ordinance if passed will provide for a three penny increase for real estate tax which will enable us to provide that 10% pay raise to city employees. And as I mentioned earlier, out of that million7,000 in the budget for the school system, our desire that that go to supplement pay increases as well. We know that the standards of quality employees on the school side averaged about 11% last year, but there's a whole lot of people over there on the school side that are not standards of quality. Uh, and for people that might not be familiar with that, uh, the state funds standards of quality than they do non-standards of quality positions here in Posa. We want to look out for everybody. So that's reasons why I'm so thankful we could provide that that extra billion7,000. But after I make this motion, if we get a second, then we will have ample time for a very robust discussion and debate uh amongst council members. And I I think it's important and I I certainly hope uh that that all my fellow council members will follow my lead on this and share with the public uh where they stand on this and why. uh this period for discussion and debate uh serve very much uh like a work session

with and we've already talked about this um I contacted all the council members uh last Thursday I'm sorry last Wednesday and Thursday I talked at length with each one of them individually uh since then I've talked individually at more length uh with three of them uh opportunity has been there since then since the meeting packet came out uh to discuss this and consult with uh the manager and staff. So after I make the motion, if we get a second, then we'll have lots of time to debate and discuss this just like we would in a work session.

Mr. Mayor, I propose that u we postpone uh point of point of order. Yes. Uh Mr. Mo, point of order. I' I've not called for a motion yet. But I may want I haven't called for a motion yet. Is it Is it not? I think there's nothing pending right now. There's no item to discuss or to make a motion on until one. Okay. So some Anybody can just make a motion without the presiding officer calling for a motion. Anybody can make a motion, but only when there's an item on the floor. There is no item on the floor. Okay. So, since there's no

something comes up, then you can make a motion on it. Okay. So, right now there's no item on the floor. No item on the floor right now. Okay. And uh one thing that I'm always super careful about, I go to great lengths, tremendous lengths to treat everybody with respect and courtesy and kindness and patience. I'm complimentary and encouraging to a fault. And one thing that I that I I don't recall ever doing in my 15th year sitting here at the dis is interrupting anybody. I've ever interrupted anybody sitting here at the dis then I apologize for that.

I thought you were finished.

Uh no sir I I was not. If I was not clear then I apologize. That's my mistake. uh after I make a motion and if we have a second uh then you will certainly have an opportunity to make uh a counter motion. Uh at this time, thank you, Mr. Moore. By the way, at this time, I move that council pass an ordinance to lay a $1.17 levy for $100 of assessed value for all real estate in the city of Posen, Virginia for the general operation of the various departments of city government.

Second, with a caveat, I do request that we try to have an opportunity to discuss it before we vote. Um and um I would second the motion. If we if we can have an opportunity to have at length discussion, I would much appreciate that. Uh David, I'd like to um if you excuse my voice, I I cut the grass the other day and some pollen has destroyed my throat. And so if the audience will bear with me um in your comments David um you said a lot of things and and there is a very significant pay difference between the citizens of Bosen and other areas um much too much. However, I will put a caveat in there and that I have talked to people from the school board and another officers who have left here to go for more money who have come back and said it's not worth it. It's much better to work in Picosen. I've I've had school board employ school school uh employees tell me that and others. However, the the one set I I I don't think is enough. Uh and I I I would support the three cent I want us to have discussion about it. The reason I want discussion is this. Okay. Uh we we at first reading said 1 cent now we're talking three. Okay. And so I think that for the for the sake of the public it it was worth having that discussion for the sake of us it's worth that discussion. Um I want to expand also on the fact that when we spend money um we're not spending our money. We're spending other people's money and that's hard to do. When you're making decisions on other people's money, that's

difficult. In Picosen, we get our paid a paycheck, our pay book and a and a checkbook is made of money that comes from the citizens and it comes from businesses and some various fees. The citizens bear the brunt of it because we don't have much commercial business. We're trying hard. As a matter of fact, there are efforts right now. There's going to be a meeting tomorrow morning. Okay. Uh uh that will of efforts to try to increase business in Picosen. At the same time, I see mostly city employees in here. Okay. The public needs to pay attention to what we do and to help us. They need to help us help them. Um we've had businesses try to come here. We were accused of bringing Walmart here some months ago. And the fact is we did not. Okay, Walmart was planning on coming here, but we did not know it until after a legacy was approved that night. We found out that very night. But you know the uproar when Walmart came. But let me tell you, had Walmart come here, there would be benefits. We had a large property over there that we pay monthly payments on every month. Had they bought the property and come here, we wouldn't be making those monthly payments. Maybe we wouldn't have to be levying these taxes. And when they bought the property, they would also have to pay person, they would have to pay personal property taxes on that commercial property that we're making payments on. They would also built a multi-million dollar building that we would be getting real estate, commercial real estate money on that would help offset the the public debt, the personal property taxes. And when they sold gasoline and goods in the store, we would also get a piece of that. And so

there were positive benefits to someone like Walmart coming here and buying that property that may well have offset personal property taxes. But you know the uproar we got number one we were accused of bringing them here when we weren't. Okay. And at the same time we were terrified. terrified that they might not build it here, but they might go a 100 yards down the street and build it on the other side of the property line where all the negative comments about Walmart would still exist except York County would have gotten that financial benefit. We have recently had a public coffee chain who wanted to come to Pagosa, but the land owner decided he didn't like whatever they were doing for one reason or other. Wouldn't sign the paper. Nope, not going to do it. And so after they waited for 6 months and couldn't get agreement, the the National Coffee Chain left said, "No, we're not going to do that. The public needs to help us on that. You know, this is difficult. It's extremely difficult." In my previous life at NASA, when we had really hard things to do and and I was told I had to do something that I didn't want to do and I didn't like to do, but I was told that you're going to have to do it. I could just call my branch heads in and say, "Hey, we got a problem. I don't know how to fix it. Let's get together and talk." We can't do that. Before we can get together and talk, we have to hold publish it in a newspaper for a certain number of days, make a public hearing on it. And and and when things come up like this, right, going from 1 cent, which has been published once before, to three cent a night, we couldn't even get together to talk about it. We had to talk together one in on Wednesdays and Tuesdays. Makes it very very hard. that that's why I would like to have an opportunity for us to get together and have some conversation about this. We're going to need some details from our city attorney to let us

know how to do that. But all that being said, it's difficult for us and it's a decision I personally hate to make because I'm not just living in taxes on the city of Picosen. I'm living taxes on myself too. And like many people in Picosen, I too am retired. Been retired 28 years. Anybody want to know how much my paycheck's going up in 28 years and my health insurance and oil in the food and the gasoline? Okay, it it it hits me too. There are a lot of retirees in Post that way. But you would I vote for that tonight. The answer to that, yes, because we can't afford not to. It's not We can't afford to do it, but we can't afford not to do it. So, uh, I would much prefer that we postpone the vote tonight and have an opportunity for us to get together with the public and have discussion on going from 1 cent to 3 cent than to do it tonight. I don't know what's all involved in that. And if we can't do that, then we should vote.

That's my opinion as well. If this is a discussion, yes, sir. And Wayne, what will we have to do to postpone the vote on the 37? because the public has not been made aware of it and we haven't had a chance to sit down and discuss it as a group.

Well, you've got to there's a number of moving parts that you have to juggle your way through. City charter requires that you adopt the budget within 40 days of the presentation. So that means that 40 days run before you have another regular council meeting. So it means that the only way that I can see that you can practically do this is if you adjourn this meeting but you don't you don't close the meeting. In other words, we're going to basically say we're going to recess this meeting to a date and time certain. That date and time certainly is going to be in have to be inside of the 40-day limit that we're dealing. Once you do that uh recessed meeting, then you can have a motion to uh postpone this uh item F1 to that next meeting. And if you want to have a work session in between, you can do that. But we're going to have to do those two things to get it properly uh this this meeting recessed and then the uh item on the ordinances uh moved to the rejournment that you have as a result of those mot.

Okay. Can can we postpone the item one, continue with the rest of them and then post postpone the rest of meeting to come back and do that and have a work session with all of us and and citizens in between. If you were going to postpone, you should postpone all the items under item F1, which is the second reading of the three ordinances. Right now we've got a motion and a second on on the table. Yeah, we we do. And uh he didn't ask for a motion. He asked me to explain. Yes, sir. There is no motion and then the motion has been made. Second.

Well, that's that's that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, we have a motion and a second on on the table. Um the discussion and debate on this topic uh that I had alluded to. Well, I think Mr. Southall already started uh the discussion. So, I mean, now's the opportunity for for all the council members to I mean, to weigh in on on where we are. I mean, this this is the time to to talk about this.

Hey, do you want to go ahead? Go ahead. All right. I was just going to say I know um I don't know how I'm going to vote. I don't know. And I know we've talked on the phone and I said, David, I don't know how I'm going to vote until the word comes out of my mouth. I don't know because I don't think that there's any I think that we're all in agreement that there does need to be competitive compensation. And in my mind, the only question is how aggressively do we tackle it this year with all of these headwinds coming that that that you mentioned and um what's sustainable? What commitment can we make that is sustainable that we can continue? And I have literally in front of me a column with 1 cent and a column with three cents and I have stuff all over that and I don't know I don't know how I'm going to vote and I am very much looking forward to this discussion. Um, I think that no matter the vote tonight, moving forward, even if we do vote tonight or if we postpone, I think uh it will be prudent for us to start having some conversations um about sustainable paths forward um you know, for the future so that whatever we do here tonight can be sustainable and that we can continue to make progress whichever direction we go. Thank you, Angie.

I've got three reasons. Um, we have not discussed this together as a council on this particular rate. Number two, the second reading is for a different amount than our first reading. And even though this is legal because we have a range we can do that, I think that's kind of unfair to the public is that we have not told the public that we're proposing three cents. we should uh they should have no dis chance to comment and some of council was unaware of the new rate proposal until Thursday we got the council package. So those are the three reasons that I would be for post

I would also agree with Councilman Freeman. um council packet goes out Friday on the website. Is that correct? Um so that's the first opportunity that our citizens would have to know about this 3 cents increase. I think that's unfair to our citizens. Um postponing this vote would give them more time to find out about it, form their opinions, perhaps reach out to council members. Um, I don't want to be in a hurry to make a mistake or something that I feel that we're just we got to hurry up and get this done from getting it on a packet on Thursday and then having to vote on Monday. I think we owe that to our citizens that we represent. Um, also I think there has to be as Angie stated to agree with her about there has to be a path forward. Um, I think that has to be topic of discussion a lot. Um, we need to find that path. I don't want to hurry into something just because York County is raising their pay and then feel forced in the next week that we have to make a decision. Um I think there's lots of discussion that needs to be had. I think we need to know a path forward without having to vote on this tonight where I just feel rushed. I feel we owe it to the citizens that they should have a time input about uh have input on that instead of them just finding out about it on a Friday and then we're voting on a Monday. Um, so I think a proposal so

we can discuss and have a work session, have it all happen within the time frame if we can make it happen and have the vote when we have to since we already have that on um the floor, the first reading of the budget where the timeline that we have to to make that vote. Um, I think we have some work cut out for us in between that time and that's what I would like to see happen. Thank you. You're welcome. I'll

go. And for those that are out there that are wondering why didn't you talk about it, why haven't you gotten together and talk about it? Um Wayne can correct me if I say something wrong here. Um we have a thing called the Freedom of Information Act where basically only two of us can get together which we can do over phone calls which we have done all weekend uh but just one-on-one. So whereas I know how Jeanie feels and I know how Angie feels and I know how Bud feels, they don't know how each other feels and it doesn't go around. That's why I agree with with Bud and Carrie and everybody else that says we need to get together and talk about this because it it wasn't a real surprise. We already had one 1 cent tax increase on the books, but it was a little bit of surprise to see it go to three. Not a staggering amount, granted, but still we sit here representing about 12,000 or so uh citizens in the city as well as the employees that work for the city. And we have feelings for both groups and we want to make sure that everybody knows what's going on. Obviously, you guys have a better network and getting the information out than the other citizens do. So, that's why we haven't talked about it except a bunch of one-on-one phone calls and emails, texts. Did you have any other um feedback that you wanted to give?

I was going to say yes. I I made up please made up two lists and they weren't for and against. They were for both. Uh basically why to vote for the city employee pay raise which is basically what it is or why to vote for property tax rates where it is and uh have my list on those ones. I didn't want to go against anyone so I just tried to do the positive things which is very good. Uh I can read those if you want to hear.

Sure. Uh first one is why vote for city employee pay raise. I go one. It shows we have faith in the city employees which we do. Uh we feel the city employees deserve the city's support as much as possible. Uh city employees provide valuable services to our citizens. The other 12,000 that aren't here tonight. Believe city citizens feel the same way. I do. They do. Uh it stems potential loss of city services with the potential loss of employees. If we lose one of you, we lose services to the rest of our citizens. Uh and that involves like parks and recreation. We don't want to tell citizens that we can't have a soccer season for the kids because we had lost employees. Um and things like that. We don't have to close the swimming pool with the summer. I know how you love the pool there, Gretch. Um that public works supports. I mean, not a day goes by when I don't appreciate what public works does in in around our city. Uh, library services with all the nice programs that you put out and I see every day when I'm in there. Um, you know, we lose some of that. Uh, possibly if we lose some of your employees, uh, public safety response and response times, uh, would be diminished, which we don't want. That's why we live in the city and county. Uh and then the DME convenience and I go on with that. But on the other side, why vote for keeping property tax rate where it is? Uh we want to help the city's citizens with their tax burden. Um it shows good physical restraint and stability. It helps attract young families with children to come to the city and it helps keep older families in the city. Uh I'm one. It helps offset property assessment increases which happen by annually versus other communities happen annually. Uh and it does show fiscal stability. Those are the things I came up with just trying to get positive on both side without going into negatives

in any way. Thank you.

My turn. um in the phone calls that we've had together um individually times that we've met in person individually uh your perspectives were shared with me and I really appreciated hearing that was that was the way I went to my fellow council members. I said what I want to do is understand your position uh because I'm sure that that's a perspective that there's something there that I haven't considered and in order to make my mind up I need to be sure that I'm considering as many perspectives as possible. Um, however, I found that when I would talk to someone downstream and something would come up, for example, uh, talking to Bud, and I'd be like, I think I I think that so and so said something along this line. I was like, wait a minute, I'm not going to capture that correctly because I am I you know, it's a telephone game, right? And even if you're trying really hard and taking really good notes, and that's why I do value so much having these opportunities. One, this opportunity is huge. Um, but I do think that it would give us the opportunity for one person to say their thoughts in that perspective so that we all get the same from it. Well, I don't know that we get the same understanding because we're always going to take it through our own lenses, right? I mean, come on. um and our own backgrounds. I wanted to share with you some some thoughts I've had uh related to this that we haven't necessarily discussed when we've had our phone conversations and first time for those of you playing at home. Um the proposed amendment is a three cent tax increase, but it's only a

two a two cent a two penny increase over what we had already um heard about. Um, and that represents um, something emergent that happened in the community as David tried to explain what was found out really late in the game with York County. I really want that message to be clear to everyone that this wasn't something that the city council is trying to and obviously not since we're all very concerned about making sure that you're all informed. Um, but it happened on a Monday night and I think just the week prior you heard that it might go down, but you can't act on what might happen. You have to wait until it happens. Um, York County's tax increase, and this is

today's

paper. Um, an 8.2 $2 million increase to their budget and they're paying for it from a food and beverage tax and raising waste, recycle, and sewer. Um, you know, th those aren't channels we have open to us in this community. And bud, you explained that really well. We don't have these channels open to us. And in some cases, because we slash our own wrists, right? And I turned five here. I'm one of those people's like, I like the community be the way it was. And that's true, but in order to do that, then I'm going to have to pay to support the things that I don't want here. And when we talk about that three penny increase, we're talking of what was the house value when we came up with the estimates when you um when briefed is $450,000 home. Um which is the median or average. Those mean different things, but I can never get it straight. somewhere in the middle house range here in Picosen. Um, so that's about $135 per household per year increase over what you're already paying. I'm not saying it's just 135. So think about what you're paying. And if you're like me and you're paying a mortgage, it's kind of like hidden from you. So it really has it's it is something, but that's not per person. It's per household, right? And remember that if you have 2.7 million of disabled veterans tax exempt from real estate taxes, that represents 11 pennies that you're paying to make up that difference per household. So those are the those are the headwinds that they're talking about. So you're already and that's what they mean by unfunded tax mandate. We vote I voted yes for the disabled veterans. I absolutely voted yes. I remember doing it. I was like, of course. Um,

but you don't think in terms of, well, someone has to pay that money. And didn't occur to us that that wasn't a state thing. That was a you thing. Congratulations. It's an us thing. Uh, it's an ish us, not an ish me, not an issue. It's an ish us. And we're one big ish us right now. And it's a painful decision for something that isn't you, it's us. Bud, you said that you're involved in this tax increase, too. You're going to have to pay for it, but you're also voting on something that your own children who live in town. So, it's not just you, it's your family, right? Your friends. Um, a lot of folks believe that Picosen is special, and it is, and it's a great place to work. We talk about how much we love our employees. Um, but to work here, you have to have the same certifications for the job. Whether or not you're working here or in York County or in Newport News or in H. Your education level for that same job has to be the same. You have to continue ongoing credentiing is the same. The job description is the same. Although, when you work in a small community, you often wear a number of hats. So you're actually doing more work than the person doing the same job in the other community. Other duties as assigned and in some cases in the city manager's office you might be doing three people's jobs because we are very lean here in Pakosen very lean. We are populated with a number of highly credentialed professionals in this town. How many of you would be voluntarily working for $65,000 less than you make now? And if your response to that is, well, if I did that, I couldn't pay off my student loans, well, that might explain why people have

other jobs in addition to the ones that they have or don't see their family as much because working multiple jobs, paying off their student loans, trying to make sure their kids go through college. Tossen is special and we've made decisions to live in a community that has two ways in and out and takes 45 minutes to get to Newport News. But we do live here on purpose and that comes with a certain responsibility. Please don't sherk that responsibility. I do want this conversation, but I think it's pretty clear that I think that yes, while we need to move towards a sustainable thing, 10% increase isn't going to close this gap, but it does tell everyone we see it. We see that gap and we want to work towards closing that gap. I don't know that we're ever going to close the gap. I do think that there are reasons people want to be here instead of somewhere else. And I think that you you will be here instead of some. And I think that even if we are able to pass this, and of course I'm a a pro because I think we have to full transparency. Yes. I think that we need to have that sustainable plan to move forward. I don't know that this vote is dependent on that conversation. That is something we have raise the priority for and continue that conversation and have some work sessions and another retreat on how do we make this happen and can we get some of y'all to help us out on that great ideas, some great involvement, participation. I know the ideas are out there, right, Steve? Call you out, man. All right. Um All

right. So, I did the math and three penny increase, that 135 a year, uh, if you do the math, uh, whether your home is a $300,000 home or $450,000 home, the actual increase on your taxes isn't 3%, it isn't 5%, it's only 2.7%. Okay? Three pennies is not on $1, it's on the the amount. So, it's only 2.7%. It is an increase. Um, but I think it's a necessary one and I think had my time.

Thank you very much. Uh, Jeanie, thank you. Keith, thank you. Mr. Prima, thank you. Thank you. Mr. South Hall, thank you. Can I expand? Absolutely. Got it. Well, um,

you I said earlier that I I talked to some people who had left the coast and came back. I have a friend who's a firefighter and he said, "Well, you know what?" He said, "I did make more money over there, but I didn't have to wait for for the police to stop the gunfire before I could fight the fire." And I talked to a teacher who said, "Boy, yeah, I had a pay increase, but you would not believe the classroom. You just wouldn't believe it. It's not worth it." Possen's a nice place to live. It is. I wouldn't live anywhere else. However, we need to keep it nice. Now, I'm going to tell you what I want, okay? I want the increase to pay 50%. And I want not to do it on by raising taxes. I want more business in Picosian so the citizens don't have to get real estate increases. We're doing all we can right now to get more commercial business in here and we're trying. But when we bring some here, you know, we need some help. Don't run them all out before we get them here. Give us a chance. We have committees that could use citizen help to get ideas to get things done. Volunteer for the committees. And so I don't want to raise taxes. I want to to have a pay increase. I don't want to raise taxes to do it. But I was told a long time ago that um I'm old enough my wants not to hurt me. What we have is for increase in taxes is unsustainable for the personal property taxes, but so is the low pay for our employees. That's unsustainable also. We have to do what we have to do. I'll quit now.

Thank you, Mr. South Hall. Any other comments from council members to say just to kind of put it in perspective. So, we keep comparing to York County. Um, the tax rate in York County, um, 70, I believe, is what that rate is. So, the $450,000 home in York County, you're you're paying, um, around $18 $1,800 less a year in taxes in York County than you're paying in Bossen. And the reason I think that's important is because of those trying to come to Beosen. And a lot of families when they get that $450,000 home, if they can afford it, a lot of times the decision they're making on whether they can come is what their house payment is. And if you're right off the bat having that much more in taxes, flood insurance, insurance has gone up a lot. Sometimes it's the difference of them coming to Picosen and not coming to Picosen. So it's a lot on the table. We've heard a lot of arguments for every argument for the employee. You know, there's an argument for not raising it for the citizen who's paying that. But the biggest thing I have tonight is our citizens not finding out about this until Friday if they went to a website and for us voting on it tonight. I think that is inconsiderate to our citizens.

I agree with that. Okay. Uh, any other comments? Yeah, one more. And to add on to that, Debbie, um, where do they find out about it? In the court of social media that tells everyone what we think and what we're saying and why we're doing what we're doing. And in order to allow you to have us have the conversation is important for transparency, accuracy, and respect to every one of you. Thank you. Thank you, Jeanie. Uh, any other comments?

Have a motion and a second on the table. However, the way around that is for somebody to make a counter motion.

That's enough. I mean, you can you can make a counter motion. Let me explain to you what you you got. You got two things you're dealing with and you have to through the correct hoops. To postpone an item that's on the agenda, you normally postpone it to your next regular meeting. So, if you postpone to the next regular meeting, you'll be too late. The budget will already have been automatically passed because you missed your 40-day window. So that means you have to postpone to a date certain. Or to postpone to a date and time certain, you have to recess this meeting to a date and time certain and then postpone to that date and time certain. So it's going to require two motions to do what you want to do. The first motion is a motion for adjournment to recess to a date and time certain. And once you set that date and time certain, you can then have a motion to postpone item F1 in the budget to that date, time, and certain. And then then if you're going to have a work session, then you're going to have to establish the date and time for a work session before the date and time that you postponed the next matter.

Okay. Thank Thank you very much for the explanation, Mr. Moore. That's okay. It took me four hours in Robert's rule to figure it all out. And and does he have it written down? I do have it written down for me, but not the I got the terms which you have to do. Yes. Oh, question. Yes, sir. Can we do that with a motion and a second on the floor? You got this substitute motion. You can do that. That takes precedence over the original table. Yeah, I knew that. Yes, sir. But that was the proper way to do it or not. You would the motion would be to make a motion to recess this meeting to a date, time, and certain meeting. You would have to say that date and time.

Yes. That is before 40 days and the 23rd is I'll do it on the 18th.

Say which means we cannot Can I jump in? Please do. not trying to uh influence specifically what date you pick, but um I'm not sure if you have a copy of the of the council chamber calendar handy, but uh the planning commission uh meeting is uh advertised and scheduled for the 18th. Uh the school board that starts at 7:00, so we could potentially go later like 9 or something or earlier in the day. um school board uh meeting 19th at 6:00. Um so again, the the days are open if you wanted

the 20th or the um the 20th or the 21st open nights. Um uh your board meeting is canceled on the 20th. Um now I have not that I'm important to this discussion, but I'm out with my son's surgery on uh the 20. I was hoping to leave at the end of work on the 21st. I can do that, excuse me, on the 20th. I can do that after your meeting and drive to Raleigh, but uh I do plan to be at the following two meetings, but Tanya will be here and she can handle it.

Uh yes, ma'am. Me personally, I'm flexible and like I typically do, I work around everybody else's schedule as best I can. So, whatever y'all want to do suits me just fine. I'll be there. I'm the same. And may I ask Randy, which day were you leaving for Raleigh? Uh, my plan was to leave immediately after work on Wednesday the 20th. I can postpone that and drive at the conclusion of your meeting the evening of the 20th. 20th not available on the 21st. I'm going I'm going to be in Charlottesville.

And just a just a note, we're open daytime all of those days. We don't have to be We don't have to go. I'm willing to take leave and be here in the daytime. What we're talking is the actual meeting. Not have to determine the work session date tonight as well.

I can do the 20th during the day. If you're going to have a work session, the public needs to know about the date and time. Do we for a work session since that was not originally scheduled, do we need to provide a certain number of days notice or advertise noticed? I don't I don't know of anything that has to be not five days, but it's a work session and Andy may have more experience in that than I do.

Um well, I I don't I don't pretend to be a lawyer, but my recollection is you have to provide a three-day public notice because a work session is a public meeting. However, building on what Wayne was talking about, I'll get these terms wrong. Recess to reconvene. You can do it all tonight without having to readvertise, but you need to articulate specifically what you're doing in the right in the right motions. Once the meeting adjourns tonight, you would have to provide public notice to any recessed meeting um that you might wouldn't be recessed at that point. It'd be a special meeting. So, but if you can do it all tonight um in your motion, then we don't need to advertise it again or we even wait um three three days.

What are the workable dates for for for a work session and the postpone meeting or re postpone meeting? Do we have workable dates? So, could could we possibly Yes, ma'am. And the 20th during the day is good here. You said it was good there and it's open. So, and you can make that happen, too. Um, just clarify once more. We adjourn this meeting and then we another recess this meeting.

A motion to recessing it to a specific date and time. Okay. Okay, Mr. Mayor, I oppose second. I I propose we adjourn this meeting until and until the 20th for work session and uh council meeting. have to select the the time and you have to clarify the place in the motion. Okay. Two sounds good. Two o'clock. Do it here.

Well, I was thinking more like six, but two will be fine with me. It's got to be in the daytime so we can out 20th. Yeah. I thought you said 20th to go. Oh, okay. Yeah. For Well, in that case, we could do it on the 19th. Is the 20th still? The 20th okay with me. Keep it on the 20. You want to do it earlier though that to get I don't know how long we might I can drive to Raleigh at 10:00 at night if I have to. Don't I'll if you have it on the 20th I'll be wherever you need me to be. Your son graduating is a pretty big deal. And we're he has surgery the next morning.

Oh, okay. In the morning. Sure. 9:00 in the morning. 9:00 in the morning on the 20th. Yep. Good for me. Going twice. I'm good. Okay. I propose we recess the meeting until 9:00 a.m. on the 20th. Uh here in this room. Second. To be clear, the 20th of May. Mhm. Yes. Within the window. And that would be 9:00 am. 9:00 am. Work session at 9ine and meeting at afterwards. Does that Sure.

Okay. After lunch sounds good to me. We have a motion in a second. Just to be sure. Do we have to provide a definite time of the meeting or can we just do a provided a definite time? 9:00 a.m. So it's what? Work session. I didn't know if we had to say meeting. He said he said work station work session and meeting. Yeah, we're good. He said both. That's the way I took it. Do I need to amend a motion to add that? You're good. You're good. Your motion's fine. We have a motion in a second. We did. Okay. Any further discussion on this? Okay. Christie, Vice Mayor Bunting, I. Councilman Fi,

I. Councilman South, I. Councilman Freeman, I. Councilwoman Hover. Hi. Councilwoman EMTT. I, Mayor Hooks. I, Mr. Mayor, the motion carried by a vote of seven to zero. Now you need a second motion.

Second motion is to postpone item F1, which is the second reading and final adoption of the fiscal year 2027 annual financial plan. You need to have a date and time that you are going to uh take up that postpone motion. I move that we postpone F1, unfinished business, second reading and final adoption of the FY 2027 annual financial plan until such a time as May 20th at 9:00 a.m. after the work session.

Second. Thank you. Any further comments or questions? I guess the only comment that I have for everybody here or watching at home, we are available via phone call or email. So between now and then um if you have any input that you would like to extend um for us, please feel free to call or email. Well said. Thank you. Any any other questions or comments? Okay, Chrissy. Vice Mayor Bunting. I, Councilman F. I, Councilman Southhall, I, Councilman Freeman, I, Councilwoman Hover, I, Councilwoman EMTT. Hi,

Mayor Hux. I, Mr. Mayor, that motion carried by a vote of seven to zero. Thank you, Christie. I appreciate that. Uh, with that being done, then we can just continue on through the remainder of the agenda. Yes, sir. Please. Didn't the council take a a motion to recess the meeting? So, if we recess the meeting, can we conduct any more business? No.

First motion. The second motion count.

Move that item to the end of the agenda. I after you once you recess to another date I don't believe you take the other items on the agenda and I think you can don't know that you can with withdraw the motions move that to the end of the agenda and come back to that motion again. That's my best understanding of how to

Mr. Mayor, you you you recessed the meeting. You didn't you didn't adjourn it to have no further business. So, it's still still ongoing. Mr. Mayor, I move we amend the agenda to move F1 No. Uh item I council directives the after item I also directives second. Questions or comments on that?

Christie. Councilman F. Hi, Vice Mayor Bunting. I councilwoman EMTT. Hi, Councilman Freeman. Hi, Councilman South. I council I, Mayor Hooks, I, Mr. Mayor, that motion carried by a vote of 70. Okay. Thank you, Christie. And if a question comes up to the legality of that, we'll just simply put those items on the next agenda. Okay. So, that that will allow us now to continue on with with item G, new business. Thank you, Will. Okay. Then you have to repeat all those motions all over again, I believe. Okay.

Thank you'all again for being here. We appreciate it. And uh hope as many of y'all as possible can come back on May 20th at 9:00 a.m. and we'll we'll carry on. So, thank thank y'all again. We appreciate it. Yeah. Don't have to leave. I mean, you're certainly welcome to stay except for Jessica. You have to stay cuz there's going to be some PIO stuff here.

All right, we'll move on to item G, new business. We have two topics. The first is a resolution to improve the department of conservation and recreation to install flood sensors at Eastn Cove, Lions Creek in the northwest branch of Back River. And we're pleased to have with us our city engineer, Mr. Paul Failen. He he's going to give us a briefing on this. Welcome, Paul. Oh, can you pull that up?

Actually,

working on that'll be fine. Well, then can the public at home hear if he talks? So, the flood sensors uh were installed in three locations. These locations have been picked by the previous engineer, but they are um locations that I'm sure you're all familiar with. Uh Little Florida by Far Street and Hello. There we go.

Little Florida by Far Street on Coen. Um, I can't remember the exact location. It's it's over there close to North Lawson. Next next to the old crab cake house. Yes. And then uh the lake

and sorry Hunts neck road where the S curve is. Yeah. Um uh these flood sensors are 100% paid for by the grant and they will uh right when they go online they're not going to do this but in the future they will provide data to like ways and uh Google maps. So our residents will be able to actually look in ways or Google maps and see if the roads are flooding and be able to avoid those areas. And then long term it'll give us a lot of data that will help us engineering to uh try and predict better structural flood prevention in the future. Any questions?

Question. Would there also be um an online portal or website that citizens can uh look at real-time data if they the I I know they're doing it into ways and Google maps. I don't know if there's any other position to see the online data. I'd have to get more information for you on that one. How long is that going to take before that's implemented that it would show up on ways? Unfortunately, I don't know how long that's going to be either. I apologize. Um,

so so what is the what's going to happen when we first what what is the benefit of having these at first? Well, at first we we the city will be able to get the data and we could, you know, uh use it to make better judgment on how we uh do flood prevention or maybe even make the public aware. Hey, there's flooding at Yes, we can do that far street. It would have to be I I we would have to figure out a system for doing that, but that is a possibility. Can I can I jump in on this, Mr. Mayor?

Yes, please do. So, council may recall that we were part of the first pilot program. We had one flood sensor. It was at that similar location in front of uh the old crabcake house. Um, what is different about this type of sensor, both the first one and the second one, is it not only tells you when the road is flooded, but it records water depth, which is super important for our citizens and and our our ability when we can and cannot move emergency vehicles areas. Um, the first technology was ground mounted. It basically came up from the ground and was a essentially a float. Um, those were maintenance headaches like crazy. The new ones are arms. They're LAR arms, so they they're looking down at the changing nature of where the surface is. So, uh, maintenance is considerably less. Um, and again, as Paul said, uh, this is a this is a grant. It won't be any any cost to us in the first three years. and and really our only cost beyond that will be routine maintenance kind of stuff. Pass is clean, the debris is moved and that sort of thing. So in the emergency operations center, we used the data that we had um to tell us what was happening north Austin Road, which is again where we had the first one. If you only knew it in one place, that would be amongst the one places you'd want it. And um and obviously we build out from that and someations uh because it's always good to know what's happening on the other side of the water and how deep the water and where we may have to go.

Thank you, Randy. I have a question. Yes. So the grant is for $19,000 and that's for the installation and three years of maintenance. That's correct. At the end of that three years, does the city then take on the responsibility of paying for the upkeep of or replacement of sensors? So, yes, we would take on the maintenance. The maintenance is a basic clean and inspect and calibrate. Uh, pretty simple stuff. I don't recommend doing the the you can contract out the maintenance.

I've already talked with public works. they're willing to do the maintenance. If we if we do it in house, it's significantly less money. It's a clean and inspect is basically a person going out there, trimming up the grass, wiping off the solar panel, and then just measure to the water to make sure that's still reading the right number. You know, uh 30 minute job. Thank you. Other duties is aside, do we know what the life of the sensor is? Do we know what the life of a sensor is? How long they last?

One day I do not know what the life span of that sensor is. Uh I have a feeling, you know, it's not so much mechanical, more electrical, and those electrical things tend to last a lot longer than mechanical sensors. and they'll either fail right away or they'll last a really long time.

We have we have no continuing commitment to maintain them or to replace them should we not desire to do so or should we find that they're not providing us the information we we need longer. We have we have no obligation except for what we accept and we can terminate that at any time with no with no re Any other questions or comments for Paul? No. Paul. Thank you. Thank you very much. Can we have a motion?

Mr. Mayor, I propose a resolution to approve the Department of Conservation and Recreation to install flood sensors at East Cove, Lions Creek, and Northwest Branch River. Second. Thank you. Thank you. Uh Christie, Vice Mayor Bunting. Hi, Councilman Fi. Hi, Councilman Southhaul. Hi, Councilman Freeman. Hi, Councilwoman. Hi, Councilwoman EMTT. Hi, Mayor Hut. I pray by voting 7 to zero.

Thank you, Christie. Uh, moving on to the second topic under new business. This is an ordinance for fiscal year 2026 for the general fund, burn justice assistant grant funding for the police department. And we're very pleased to have with us our police chief, uh, Steven Casease. Welcome, Chief. Good evening, mayor, members of council. Uh, this is a grant that is somewhat recurring but changes on a regular basis as far as the dollar amount occurs. The the burn justice assistance grant for local law enforcement uh is basically a pot of money that comes through the federal government uh to the state. DCJS awards out certain amounts of it to uh units of local government. This year on April 24th, we were notified by DCJS that we were uh identified as qualifying for a grant of $1,969 for the federal fiscal year 2024 funds. So, this is a couple years behind. It's basically the leftover money uh from the the burn grant in 2024 that they did that they parse out. Uh so what we're planning to do with this uh some of our equipment uh has have big dollar figures attached to them and and don't always have a specific line item in our budget to to buy additional items. Uh so this year with that money we're going to buy additional flashlights. Some will be replacements for for ones that are damaged or not functioning uh at the peak of their effectiveness. Others will just be so that we have those available when our officers need them. Uh, so before you tonight is a is a ordinance for your consideration to adopt and appropriate these funds.

Thank you, Chief. Any questions or comments for the chief? Okay. Uh, do we have a motion in a second, please? Mr. Mayor, I propose an ordinance authorizing the city manager to accept the burn justice assistant grant and making additional appropriations for fiscal year 2026. Second. Thank you, Christie. Councilman Freeman, I Councilwoman EMTT, I Councilman Southpaw, I. Councilman F. Hi, Councilwoman Hubard. Hi, Vice Mayor Bunting. I, Mayor Hawks, I. The motion carried by a vote of seven to zero. Thank you, Christie.

No, I don't know. After direct. All right, we'll move on to item H, comments of the city manager. Randy, I have nothing this evening, sir. Uh, thank you Randy. Moving on now to item I, Council Directives. Keith,

I just want to remind everyone on Thursday, this coming Thursday, it's three days. Uh, the mobile food pantry distribution will take place at Em Baptist Church. That's 8:14 Yorktown Road. Uh, the Kuanas Club is going to be the host volunteers. I appreciate their service. Be there about 8:30. The pantry itself starts at 10:00. Um, want to thank uh Gretson Kau that she's here for the clean the bay day which had a lot of fun. It was windy and cold, but we picked up a lot of trash and that was a good thing both at uh Mesic Point with a lot of good volunteers and over at Wararf as well. And uh for those that might be interested, uh delegate uh Virgil Thornton, our delegate, is going to have a veterans town hall tomorrow evening at Fort uh Fort Monroe. Same. Yeah. Starts at 6:00. Yeah. 102 Pratt Street. There's a a modular building there which is really nice facility. Um for any that might be interested and hadn't heard about it. I just got the notice today. There you go. That's it. Thank you, Keith. Debbie,

nothing else. Mayor, thank you. Thank you, Jeanie. Nothing else. Thank you, Mr. Freeman. Nothing. Thank you, Angie. Yeah, nothing for me. I Thank you, Mr. Cello. I'm going to talk.

Okay. I'd like to thank everyone who came out tonight to the city council for paying attention to your city government and for everyone at home who watched. Please invite your friends. We'd love to have you. Thank you, Mr. Sal. Uh like to thank uh Michael Thompson for his support with the IT services tonight. Uh would also like to remind everybody that National Police Week is the week we're currently in. Uh May 10th through the 16th, 2026. And that National Emergency Medical Service Week uh is the week of May the 17th through the 23rd uh 2026. And that'll conclude the council directives. and then we'll weigh back into uh restating the motions.

I think you need a I think you need a motion to uh B says this meeting to the 20th at 9:00 a.m.

You got to do it again. Yes, sir. Is that what I heard? Okay. Um Mr. Mayor, I move we recess this meeting until 9:00 a.m. May the 20th in this room. Second. Okay. Uh Christie, thank you. Council Freeman. Hi. Councilwoman EMTT. Hi. Councilman South. Hi. Councilman F. Hi. Councilwoman Hover. Hi. Vice Mayor Blunting. Hi. Mayor H. I. Mr. Mayor. The motion carried by 70. Thank you, Christie. And you have a motion to postpone the item the same date.

So move second. That's satisfactory. Miss Moore. Satisfaction. Very good. Thank y'all. Christie. Councilman Freeman. I counsel Councilwoman EMTT. Hi. Councilman Southhaul. Hi. Councilman F. Hi. Hard. Hi. Vice Mayor Bunting. Hi. C. Mayor H. Hi. Mr. Mayor, the motion carried by a vote of second confirmed work session for the same date and time through a motion. Second through a motion or just do it in the form of a motion. That way you can't be wrong. Amend that motion or add make a new one.

Okay. I move we uh have a work session on May the 20th at 9:00 a.m. in this room. Second. Thank you. Councilman Freeman. Hi. Councilwoman EMTT. I council. Hi. Councilman Fi. Hi. Councilwoman Hover. I. Vice Mayor Bunting. I. Mayor Hooks. I. Mr. Mayor. Motion carried by a photo of seven to zero. I will review the rules. And if I am wrong in telling you you could proceed under new business, then I will abide with the city manager and they'll have to go back on the agenda for the next reg. Thank you, Mr. Moore. Appreciate you.

I don't think I'm wrong, but I will verify that I'm appreciate you shephering us through this in uh uncharted territory. So, since we are recessing, does that mean we skip item J? You do not have a motion to adjurnn. You've already had a motion to recess, right? We're done. So, we're finished tonight. Okay. Thanks, everybody.