Planning Board - Regular Meeting

for street soldiers. We good? I watch it over time. Call this meeting of the Pmpton Lakes Planning Board to order.

Following is the agenda for the regular meeting of the Pmpton Lakes Planning Board. Meeting is to be held in municipal building 25 Lennox Avenue, September 16, 2025 beginning at 7:30. Formal advanced notice is required by NJSA 104-1. It sec has been provided of the meeting at least 48 hours in advance of today given the time, date, and location and to the extent known the time of the agenda of the meeting. Such notice stated that formal action may or may not be taken. The notice was one posted on the bulletin board outside of the offices of be the municipal clerk reserved for this and other similar announcements. Two provided to the suburban trends newspaper designated by the burough council to receive such notices and three file with burrow clerk. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [Music] Well, first of all, I'd like to welcome Susan Omali to our esteemed board. Thank you. She's taking over the uh duties of the board secretary. So, welcome. Thank you very much. And um you're going to have your handful tonight. So, I'm glad you have a little help earlier. I have my help, so we're good. Liz, thank you for coming. We're fine. Yes.

Okay. First item on the agenda is regular meeting minutes for June 17th. That's pending. So, we're not acting on that tonight. And then the regular meeting minutes for our August meeting. Uh we did have and if so was your pleasure. Make a motion to accept. Motion by Mr. Tro, second by Mr. Bulby. Any comments or questions on the minutes? Seeing none, all in favor? I. Any opposed? Any present? One present. Present. How many presents? Present. Pres. Okay. Uh, roll call approval. Okay. Roll call, please. Yes. Mr. Simone, here. Mr. Otto, here. Mr. Tro, here. Mr. P Dr. Pendster here.

Mr. Boby here. Mr. Kading here. Mayor Sarah here. Councilman Patrick Quinn here. Uh, Mr. BMA here. And Mr. Foster. We have Mr. Andy Brewer here and uh Mr. Dan Block here. And Mr. Miss Nikki Lao here. Thank you. You're welcome. All set. Yes.

Okay. First item on the agenda is approval of bills. We have Collier's engineering and design professional services from August to September and Maraziti Falcon Legal Services retainer for June 2025 and Dom Falsi Engineering Associates July to August engineering inspection fees. The totals for that are 11 $1446 for Collars, $2,423.50 50 cents for Maraziti Falcon and $560 for Donald Engineering. A motion and discussion. Motion first. Make a motion to approve.

Mr. Keing, Mr. Trost. Any discussion or questions on the bill? If not, we can do a roll call on that, right? Yeah. Yeah. No roll call vote, please. I mean, I'm sorry. Yeah, you can do it. You can do um Yeah, just all in favor. see one by saying I

any opposed. Thank you. Okay, there is no correspondence, so we're going to go right to the applications tonight. First application on the agenda is PB25-01 Sarah Realy LLC 714 to 720 Hamburg Turnpike Compton Lakes Block 911 lot 11 zone GWD. Please note this is carried over from the June 17th meeting and it was notified at that time that it would be post it would be continued. With that said, representatives for that applicant, please step up and give us the best of what you got.

Okay. I will do that.

Now, [Music] good evening, members of the plane board. My name is Justine Delveio and I am an attorney with Greenbound Row Smith and Davis. Uh tonight I am representing Sabor Realy LLC with regards to an application for preliminary and final site plan approval with bulk variances for construction of a threetory mixeduse building located at 714720 Hamburg turnpike in Pmpton Lakes, also known as block 9001, lot 11 on the burough tax. This is a continuation of a hearing which began on June 20 June 17th, 2025. To refresh the board's memory, the project the properties currently improved with a singlestory commercial building and the applicant is seeking to construct an additional two stories of residential use. In response to the board's comments and the public's comments from the prior meeting, we are pleased to report that the applicant has worked hard to revise its plans to eliminate some of the variances, reduce the intensity of other variances, and otherwise mitigate the concerns we heard. Notably, there will now be eight residential units, and the trash enclosure was moved to reduce the intensity of the variance previously requested. Additionally, and at the board's suggestion, the applicant met with the county planning board and its professionals and has revised the plans to remove the parking spaces in the front of uh the property completely. As such, the project will have 37 physical parking spaces and a total of 38 parking spaces, including the electric vehicle credits. The removal of these front parking spaces has eliminated the need for one variance in this application. As will be outlined in the testimony you hear today, the applicant took the boards and the public's comments seriously by incorporating revisions to alleviate their concerns to the fullest

extent possible. Today, you will first hear from the engineer Adnan Khan regarding the updated site plan he prepared. You will then hear from the AR architect Yogesh Mystery regarding the updated architectural plans he repaired. And finally, you will hear from the applicant's planner, Paul Richie, regarding the justification for the variances requested. So with that, I would like to bring out my first

to be sworn in. You were sworn in earlier in the first application, right? You remain sworn in. Yes. To put a copy of your plans up. Yes. [Music] the password for the computer. It's right on top.

Oh, thank you. You're welcome. working the other two. [Music] Mhm. Thank you.

Okay. Uh so as the board, you know, previously heard from your testimony, you testify about the original plans you prepared. Uh can you please walk us through the updates to the plans you prepared and what is now being proposed for the project?

Uh sure. Good evening board. Uh as you recall, we were here a couple of months ago and at that time there was a lot I mean neighbors as well as some board comments and then also we met uh with the county and one thing that came out of the county meeting was that for this application they will not allow any parking along Hamburg turnpike. As you understand there is a parking for the existing stores uh perpendicular on in front of the store storefront. So the county outcried this as like for any applications along that corridor that's their policy now like there will be no parking within the front. So what we did is based on the comments and again I believe the board has the concern as well as some of the neighbors had the concern about the exercise within the parking area the location of the stair and elevator addition that we were proposing. So that all has been thought out again and what we did is the plan that you have in front of you uh is uh reference the plan number please and in the current date.

Okay, it's uh sheet CO3 and the date on the plan is what is the vote? Whatever the latest revision is?

Yeah, August 7th, 2025. and I'm testifying on CC-3 which basically is the site plan uh that's been uh prepared after the changes and as you can see the parking in the front of the stores along Hamburg is all eliminated. So we're not proposing any parking in the front area. uh because of that uh we did we did had a reduction in the toy parking count as opposed to parking. Then there were other one other major issue was the continuous access from the adjacent lot into our lot in the rear. So what we did is like we eliminated that uh completely. So the plan that you have in front of you will see that we used to have two parking spaces and then a 16 ft aisle here. So what the architect did that he eliminated the stair tower along the northern portion of the building and we moved the stair tower to the back uh or to the rear of the existing building and then the remain and then along that stair tower we move this trash enclosure uh which will be located in the same area before the trash enclosure was along the L-shaped uh east western corner of the property. propert and I believe there was some concern raised by the neighbors with the location of the trash enclosure close to their property line. So now the trash enclosure has been moved to the southern portion of the green area that we created to cut any excess from the adjacent lot for any parking uh between the two lots. So this all area will be turned green as except for the area required for the sidewalk to access the trash enclosure and the storefronts from the back and then we also have

landscaped along the property line along the edge. So do by doing so we eliminated uh two things. One there was an excess aisle which I believe it was 16 ft in this area. So now that excess aisle is completely gone and also those two parking spaces that were serving through that excess aisle has been eliminated. So this area again uh we heard the neighbors and the concern and the constant parking they're mentioning between the two lots is being eliminated. So that is one of the major change or the second major change after the elimination of the parking in the front. Uh by by moving the uh stair tower from the northern port side of the existing building to here we were able to eliminate that variance. If you recall, there was a small uh what do you call a a confluence point where the drive aisle was reduced to 21 ft approximately 21 ft. So by eliminating that we have now full access uh approximately 25 or close to 26 ft drive eyes. So we eliminated that uh uh viral variance as well. So now have now we have fully confirmed driveway eyes throughout the access points of the parking. Uh so those were the major changes uh that we made. Uh we also added like as as we discussed that a small hashed area which would be loading and loading. However, we also kept the existing asphalt in front of in front of the store storeway where there used to be uh uh parking and the idea there is like during the morning hours whatever there is loading unloading that required for any particular or when loading required

for any particular store or it will provide a safe path for people walking uh through the stores. So we kept that uh area as asphalt. However, uh we providing we are providing the curb along and again that was another requirement by the counties that they want the frontage of the lot uh where we eliminating the parking to be fully curved and landscaped. So we have added a landscape in the strip uh along Hamburg turn pike in the area where we liberated those parking and matching the other side the northern side where we already had uh the landscaping along Hamburg turn pike. So there was a combination of adding more landscaping and more trees or shrubs in the front uh and of course the other two uh items that I mentioned. By doing so we we are required uh I mean we reduce the parking count. If you remember originally we were proposing 408 parking spa I mean 48 parking spaces were required and now we are proposing or now with the new project it's 45 spaces. One other thing that I want to also address is the unit count have reduced as well because when we realize that we're going to reduce quite a few number of parking spaces and the applicant uh we discussed this with the applicant and applicant say let's try to minimize that gap. So he was willing to sacrifice two lots and we basically give up two lots and now instead of 10 lots uh we are proposing eight lots. So that reduces the parking count towards the residential portion of uh the requirement. So uh yeah so so as far as the parking so now we are proposing 37 parking spaces with the

EV credit it goes up to 38 spaces. Uh so uh and originally I believe we were proposing 47 spaces uh with a EV credit of two. So again there is still a difference but the difference is minimized by reducing the number of u uh units uh and again based on the applicants my inter interaction with the applicant like I believe he mentioned that in actual I mean know even though the based on the ordinance requirements for the commercial we require larger number of parking spaces but in actuality during any peak time the maximum commercial spaces that he observed are between 10 to 14 spaces. So we are proposing lot more than that dedicated for commercial use. So we have enough parking for commercial use and we have 16 parking spaces dedicated for residential. So the residential will have their parking spaces then that we don't have to go through the commercial

one other sorry and just to clarify uh the ordinance requires us to have 45 parking spaces. Correct. We are proposing 38. We are proposing 38. Yes, thank you. And also by making these changes uh we have also uh reduced the impervious coverage requirement. Uh originally if you remember the pro uh original project was n approximately 90 little less than 94% now we are at 89.84%. So we added more green area along with landscaping uh to the project. And can you tell the board uh what the current existing impervious coverage is just for their own knowledge or comparison?

Sure. [Music]

All right. Current uh inress coverage is 89.2 and we are now proposing 89.84. So it's slightly slight I would say less than 1% increase of the impervious coverage. So those were the major changes uh that we did to the plan. Otherwise as far as the access point and uh uh drive a uh location, they are all the same except now the drive is a fully compliant. They are more than 24 ft that is required. Uh we have the required number of handicap spaces. We have required number of EV parking spaces uh that we are proposing. The trash enclosure has been moved as per the concern of the neighbors. The retaining wall has been clarified on the plans as to what would be the height and it's a gravity wall. It's maximum at a height. The maximum height at any given point of the wall is about two 2 and 1/2 ft.

So it's not a major uh or it's not more than a 4ft height. And with regards to the garbage enclosure, can you just speak on the change in the variance that we are requesting because I believe we were previously requesting zero foot setback but now it is now it is 1477 uh variance but again it is because we moved the garbage from the rear property line uh towards the

uh and can you also speak to the additional variance we are requesting regarding the minimum rear yard setback? Yeah, the again the minimum rear yard set back again that that has increased because we moved the stair tower from the side to the rear. So even though uh we we landscaped it along the perimeter but that still triggers a variance for the rear yard. And what are we now uh proposing for that? Uh it's 28.28. And what is required? Uh 35. Okay. And then can you also speak about the minimum signage setback because that varies as well.

Uh yes the signage again uh why by as per the discussion with our count with the county uh they want the signage to be installed in the green strip. So by pulling uh the sign toward into the green strip now the setback is reduced to 75 ft uh uh from but it is located in that green landscape area along the Hamilton pipe [Music] and as far as the engineering of course like uh we reviewed the colleagues report and then we tried to address as many comments in the engineering comments and they were addressed and as as listed most of them are satisfied by Kier Kier satisfied with those comments. So we in making those changes we tried to address some of the other engineering comments as well.

Thank you. Uh I'm going to go to the Collier's report first because it was a lengthy letter which you've coordinated which is great and I'd like to see where Collier stands on both the engineering and the planning aspects of this project which will help the public and the board understand it a little bit better. [Music] Yeah, let me uh go for uh Dan Block filling in for Christian Russell for those who don't know me. Um I do have a couple of questions. I reviewed this application with Christ in this.

Pull that microphone over towards like between you guys, please. Thank you. Um, as far as the number of required parking spaces, I think there was a little bit of a miscalculation in our letter, um, because the ordinance requires a two and a half parking spaces per three-bedroom unit, and we had calculated only two spaces per all of the units. So, it does increase the required parking spaces by one. Um, so be 46 instead of 45. Doesn't change the So, it goes to 46.

46 is what is required, right? Yes. So it doesn't change what they're proposing. U and then the other question is how is the shared parking going to be handled? Is there uh assigned parking anywhere or is it reserved for tenants or or vice versa for the commercial uh customers or how does that how is that going to be handled? Yeah, it is intended to have a dedicated parking spaces for the tenants. So uh the area in the back those nine spaces and the parking spaces to the uh northern side of the building the other was close to the uh stair tower. All that parking will be dedicated to the tenants

and there will be a total of two parking spaces per unit for a total of 16 dedicated to the tenants. Correct. That is correct. Yes. Could I just tell what does that mean dedicated? means there is a sign to uh but is there a sign that says do not use if you're not a tenant. I guess that's was that what you were asking. I didn't mean to hop in. I apologize. We can add the signs like we can say like tenants only sign him you got to talk to. Yes. So that that should be added to the plan say whichever spaces you're you're dedicating and whatever signage is proposed um that should be added to the plan. So it'll be reserved per unit. So each unit will have two spaces assigned to it. Yes. And then we can appropriate signage for that.

That is correct. We can tell them spaces one and two is from this unit, two and three is from that unit. And and we would ask that be part of resolution compliance should this application be and the spaces just to make clear is the spaces along the rear property line and along the northern side of the building, not the northern side of the lot.

The northern basic um I mean uh not all of the northern side because we have EV charging stations there too. So between the one EV charging station and then the eight spaces that you see. Uh so between actually what I would do is like I would do the whole strip along the western uh property line and then those eight spaces along the northern side uh to uh come up with like 16 spaces for the tenants. Okay. There's nine here. There's nine and seven. So that's

Yeah. And then the other parking spaces that would be open for customers um you don't want the tenants to park there. So are those going to be restricted from residential parking or they won't be restricted because again uh the commercial like again those parking spaces the tenants can use and then the businesses are closed so they can use it. So so we restrict them then uh because again on Hamburg Park there's no parking there. So so we're going to reserve it for off hours. Okay. And do you need signage indicating that or is that No, I would say any open space can be taken by any of the tenants or the guests that are

Let me ask one question conjunction with that. The access to the housing units, the uh rental units is strictly from that tower in the back or is there should be two exits obviously. Where is the other access point for those buildings? Uh the main the main access is through the towers and of course architect will go over his plans but that is the main entrance. Well, how how else do they get in and out? Uh I mean I will leave it to the architect but I think we have a secondary access point as well. All right. The only reason I asked is because we're talking about whether who's going to park where. People are lazy. They're going to park closest to the building where they have a door. So my guess is if if the bulk of the entry is going to be in that corner, uh

just to remind people are going to want to park back there for the building. The the uh residential units are second and third. So So again, so they are access through the staircase. So I believe they will be using the rear of the property to access their apartments, but I'll leave it for the audience. Okay, that's fine. Uh the other question I have is regarding the loading and the I don't know what you call it the the pavement that you have in front of the building. Um the loading area that you have striped is very small. It's not really large enough to be a loading area. So is that the intention that entire strip in front of the building going to be the loading area?

Uh no not in front because we have seven parking spaces proposed in that area. You're talking about this directly in front of the building.

What is parking? This is not not loading. This is just I mean first of all the loading we expect is like uh you know vans delivery vans or box trucks. So we're not expecting any bigger vehicle than box typical FEX and UPS truck type. So there is enough ample space for them to park in this area. So we this is about like 20 ft long or I would say 22 ft 20 ft by 12 ft. So that's ample area. But again then we have for smaller vans we have the area in front of all the uh stores that they can just pull in they can deliver and then they can leave the site in a regular parking spot. No the the area the paved area in front of the store.

Yes. Yeah. That's where they can the smaller vehicles can park there or move into let's say there's a delivery to pizza stores. So the van can just pull in in front of the pizza store deliver. However, you don't control anything to the south of your spots. So, if someone decided they were going to park for the bagel place, the legal spot for the bagel place would close off that strip, which forces them to back out of that strip into the oncoming traffic of the parking area.

And that's something that we talked with the county also. And then now what we agree to that we're going to provide a curve between the two lots. So if you look at it this area right here where there's a potential for the cars that can uh come in and out we can provide a curb there small curb that you don't control that lot. No no on our lot on our side. So you're going to make that just a dead end aisle. It will be just a dead end. Okay. Yeah. Okay. No parking there. Just drop all drop. Exactly. Yeah. Does that need to be striped as as a loading area? I mean that's kind of confusing. Uh we can stripe it.

Uh loading unloading if that area is required. But again uh I mean it's up to the board if the board wishes. We can stripe that area. I hate a lot of striping. Yeah. Won't look nice. Yeah, it won't look nice.

We can talk we can talk. Let's see where things go. that area in the front has troubled all of us because that's why we told you from the first meeting go talk to the county because your proposal we knew it wasn't going to sail. So now we know you're limited what you can do and so we can delve into that a little bit more as the planner said. Uh but it's just going to be tricky. So let's let's let's go beyond that one and see where we what other questions do you have on this other than parking? Uh, parking and loading were really our major concerns from a planning stand. Yeah, I us too. [Music] Okay. Engineering.

I'm concerned with that being a loading aisle without understanding how a truck backs out from there if that's a dead end. Um, I'd like to see if you have any correspondence with the county. I know you've talked to them. Do you did you provide a formal submission and do you have any comments? Uh we did not provide a formal submission to the county just yet. We had a preliminary meeting with them on this and their com their major comment was to eliminate the front yard parking uh as you know the board and the public had commented.

Let me throw this out there real quick. If if and this is only you know depending on where the project goes. were really talking about, you know, what if do you think the county might say to you, for example, you could put an exit driveway from that so that the landscaping would go, you know, so they would let you come out just one spot there? No, I don't think so. The county will like a circular driveway in and out for park. No, I don't think so. county will allow that because according to their uh master plan county master plan even for having the existing access that's there we need to get a variance from the county for that for

I'm just wondering if they would allow it as a a through one way in and out pulling out onto the turnpike forward is a whole lot easier than backing down that strip right into the driveway. We can discuss that with the county when we formally apply for it if they allow. My understand. Yeah. My understanding based on our discussion is like it will be they said like it it can be granted the waiver for the existing driver. They says it should be granted but still we have to request for a waiver from the county. So we can add that scenario and see or discuss that with the county. Do you think that would make some sense if the county would allow it? If the county allows them to make an exit,

I think single single lane exit, you know, they're not for a large truck. Right turn only. I think it would make that perfect sense. Yeah. That means the county won't make it. Probably not. I know cuz we're dealing with the county and some other things. What they're trying to do is stop all entrances and exits from businesses off the main roads. So, they don't care which way it's going in or out. But they can't they can't landlock businesses. And all I'm saying is there's a there's a safety issue here where you would almost have that area completely useless then unless the trucks unloading come in and then back in there if they just back in there.

Yeah, they can back in K turn or J turn or whatever. People on Hamburg turnpike tend to be going a little fast when they turn in there sometimes. And again we're not talking about like a constant delivery or loading unloading like we have a three stores there and uh so I I would say it's not going to it can be monitored so again in the morning time let's say if they're coming early morning or midafter afternoon they can always I mean the idea there is like it's not to actively use it as loading and loading but since it's already paved area there we want to keep it so that just to provide uh the customers kind of an access to go into the store in and out of the for more conveniently. So, that was the only idea.

Why don't you, and I'm probably not going to be popular with this, cut that in half, make it 12 ft wide and only have like 12 ft of pave service and then increase your green space there. It's going to reduce your impervious your impervious coverage and there's going to be no way for anybody to park there. Absolutely. Yeah, we can do that. Absolutely. That's a very good suggestion. Yeah, we can increase the width of this uh landscaping uh strip that we're doing and we can add more green area and and I would ask that that addition be part of resolution compliance and or condition of approval that we present updated plans with that should the

I think that that's a good idea. These are suggestions for uh trying to make it work better if poss if possible. I have one more question if I could uh on parking. The uh the 13 spaces along the street on the northern side, the very last space, can a vehicle maneuver in and out of that space safely? It's right up against the edge of the the loft. Yeah, we have a 24 ft backup alley area and then again the template. So yeah, you can back out and move and again this will be just one way. So there will be not if they need a cave to turn they have enough room that they can do it within the without backing out into the street.

Yes. Um and I I did speak with the applicant. He is okay expanding the green space there. So should the board, you know, approve our application tonight, we would ask that be a condition of approval that we can adjust the plans. No, but if he increase that like then we'll reduce the drive from My apologies. I meant in front of the stores. My apologies. Yeah. Anything else that u couple small questions and and by the way, make sure your letter is covered.

Yes. Um this wasn't in the letter, but I I do know that um there were some residents questions about streetscape and additional street trees um along uh Hamburg turnpike. Is it possible? I know that that whole portion on the southern this side is all concrete. Um, is there any I don't know this is if the board would like it reason why you couldn't put a couple of trees there in a in a grass strip.

Yeah, I think we can do it probably two additional two more trees. That's something like uh we didn't think about it like since you said we are in completion of the plan but yeah now again there is all this sidewalk I think the only thing the county will be concerned is about that we need to provide at least 5 ft of uh clearance for people and uh to use the sidewalk. So but I think we have still room and we can provide maybe few more trees. Yeah, you have the same condition to the north. So we can add few more trees there. Yes. and uh the applicant is happy as part of resolution compliance to work with the board's professionals to uh determine any additional treat that we could place. Okay.

I think the main other concern, Mr. Chairman, is the fence around the back of the property. Um let's talk about that. Above the wall, above the wall. Yeah, let's talk about that.

We went from a 2 and 2.8T high wall to I think it's still a 2.8 foot high wall with a fence above it. Um, we really don't have any details of that fence and I know there's a lot of concern from the neighbors about that as well and the screening. I know the screening requirement is 6 ft. So, you're getting the 6 ft, but can you speak a little bit to the the retaining wall if it's going to have any drainage? Um, if it's like a keystone wall, where does the drainage go? Does it have geog grid? I think we touched on that the last time as well.

Yeah, it's always totally gravity retaining wall. So no geog grid. Uh this only two 2 and 1/2 ft high walls. So it will have a drainage in the back and I believe uh what are the drainage pipe that we're going to have in the back will be tied to the dry valve system that is out there. As far as the fence, I thought we added a fence, but it's not. It's going to be like one of those aluminum decorated type fence, safety fence. Aluminum what? Uh decorated metal fence. Oh. So, it's going to be mounted on top of the retaining wall for the safety. As the neighbors pointed out last time, this is solid.

Uh, no, it's not solid. It's like the pickets, but it's more decorative like metal fence that you see usually in the front yards, uh, 3 ft, 4 ft high. So, okay. So, it it will serve the purpose of safety, but not a visual screen. It'll be less than a solid visual screen. Yes, I think we need a visual. Yeah, that's why I'm asking. Screening requirement is for visual not so much. We want safety too. Yeah. But it's a visual element.

We we can do then either a board on board fence, wood fence uh to blend more with the whatever landscaping is in the back area or vinyl fence. So up to the board like whatever the board wishes he can do that too. and the applicant is fine with using either of those.

Okay. And what I think we'll do with the fence is hold that for discussion. Um, and we know it's got to be there. We know it's got to be a certain height. We know it's got a screen. Uh, the board will discuss it and and I'm sure the u the residents in the area will have opinions on that. So, uh, aside from the fact that it will change from what you said, I I'd rather just hold off on the discussion on that till we get a little further along. Everybody's okay with that? Okay. Anything else that you wanted to add to the record? Okay. So, drainage wise, they're okay with their proposals with the uh the pipes. Yes.

And the cleaning out the catch basins and those things and the county will have final say on that as well. But actually, that's what I was about to say. We did discuss about the drainage also and the county wants us to design this system particularly like 25 year 1 hour or 2 hours strong. So we going to do that and that will probably increase the size of the dry. So instead of one, maybe we might have to go two, which is better for Are they making you put a detention basin in or detention piping? No, they are okay with what we have right now. We have a dry system, so they're okay with that as long as we meet the storage requirement. Okay. You're okay with soil erosion, too? Yeah. Are you over the 5,000 square foot? Yeah. Well, we're deleting.

Okay. Cuz I know there was a soil erosion plan in the set. So that's Oh yeah, because I think the last two sheets are so erosion. SO1 and SO2. Are you talking back? Yeah, so one and yeah. Okay. Another thing is lighting. Um there were some general questions about the lighting. Is this still your uh area? Yes. Okay. And the other another question I had was access for emergency vehicles, particularly the larger fire equipment. So, I'd like to discuss that as well between the engineer and you guys. But lighting purposes, uh, we all know lighting needs to be screened and properly shielded so that

it doesn't reflect off all of the neighbors. So, you called for down lights. All down lights, full screening, down lights, fully shielded, and all all LED type fixtures. Okay. Okay. And you guys were okay from the perspective of uh lumens or for candles. Um we didn't get the stats I believe on this drawing. That was one thing we had requested on the lighting.

We did actually in this revised plans we did add the table as for the comment like the intensity of lightings with the average. So we are meeting the average like about 4.8 4.7 4.8 from the sidewalk and roadways. So which is u I mean which is not something overpowering or glowing but it still needs the minimum safety requirement. What about in the um that's more in the front you're saying right? uh throughout the site on entire site. Does it need to be that bright on the rear rear part? The rear like again where the light fixtures are of course the intensity under the light fixture will be more but again if you look at it by the time it crosses over the property line in the rear we are almost very close to zero.

Okay. So so it's not something and then again then we have a landscaping buffer existing landscaping buffer along the rear property line on adjacent lots. Plus now with the solid fans that we're going to put in there that will shield it further. So So do you you need anything more from them on the lights or the lighting patterns or anything? The only thing was the five the freestanding sign at the front. I think you mentioned you were going to provide details there. Yeah, right now the applicant doesn't know whether what kind of a sign it is but right now we are assuming that it might have a light in it but it's a possibility that it won't. So once we finalize it for whatever feature we finalize it, of course, we'll run it back by your office and well, it can either be an internal light or it can be an external spotlight.

Yeah. Uh depending on, you know, what they proposed. External lights may a lot of waste of light. No, I know. Yeah. So, so I think that's something like we haven't finalized yet what will be the sign type. Uh but as far as the distances and the measurements, we have it on the plans. I would want to make sure that again all of this is if everything goes through. This is one of the things I'd want to have confirmed with the engineer. It doesn't have to come back to the board, but the board can certainly express their opinion as to what they prefer to see and then ask you guys to u make sure that it's going to meet the requirements that we have

and the applicant agrees to that. Okay. They should give me insurance that more than access for fire equipment particularly our new tower ladder which is John how much of a radius do you need on that do you know off hand I do not offand

okay the uh I'm not sure what uh I didn't really look at this in detail to see what you have designed it for but um I would make sure want to make sure that somewhere between the engineer and the fire prevention bureau that you guys get what the minimum that we need for that tower ladder to get to a point where you feel that the proper positioning of the vehicle should be. It's never going to be against the building but you know we should have you you know an automatic area for parking or access so that we would need to know it at least it can get there. Uh the engines I'm not so worried about the shorter we'll be. Yeah, as far as the circulation like I can talk about like I think we have enough ample circulation. We have uh the way we are proposing the the project is uh along Pquanic it's oneway entrance which is a 24 ft wide uh driveby even though it's one way and then the exit along Hamburg turnpike or vice versa and I think the radiuses we have it's all open there are no parking spaces in between so I think the vehicle any fire truck will not have any problem pulling in and out through those two access points

good Uh, okay. Board members. Um, I'd like to get Do you have uh any more dis uh testimony besides what Mr. Khan went to? Any other experts? Oh, yes. I have two other experts. Two others. Okay. So, regarding specifically what Mr. Khan has testified to? Uh, does any member of the board have any questions at this point? Mayor, I just I maybe I misheard it. between the two uh lots there's going to be a curb or there's not going to be a curve. Do you mean in the front? In the front when that area where you're going to rellandscape it walking. Is there going to be a curve? That's what we are thinking of putting a curve there. Yes.

All right. Because I'm just concerned that people going to see the space if they're trying to run into the stores on the other side and be able to drive right in there and know it's illegal parks park in there and then we have issues. So if this curve they can't do that. Yeah. Exactly. And that's the whole idea. We don't want that situation for our lot as well. And I believe I don't know like if you want to talk about it like the applicant research there is no existing easement agreement between the two lots for the parking or access uh between

two separate distinct if you cut that area in half or by a third there's not going to be room enough for somebody to drive in front of those existing stores sideways in front. Yeah. No, there won't be because if if they narrow that down by 10 feet or 12 feet in that green space there, you're not going to be able to get a car in front of those stores. Okay. I thought it was at least 6 ft wider, right? You know what? Right now, it's probably it's more than 18. Yeah. Even when you reduce it, it's going to be 6t wide. It'll be 10 ft wide. So, you could if there was no curve, you could pull up back out. But, I think we'll be able to provide a curve to like because that's something we don't want on our lot as well. So yeah,

just a question about the fence on top of the wall. Um, and we would have to look this up. What is the what is the require or not the requirement, but the maximum height a fence can be for the property owner? Cuz now you're measuring from the parking lot to the top of the fence. And it's going to be 2 and 1/2 or 3 ft shorter for the homeowners because you can't measure from their backyard to the top of the fence. You have to measure from the parking lot to the top of the fence. So, how high is that fence going to be? The fence is not going to be 6t by itself. Like, let's say we have 2 and 1/2 ft of wall in the back.

So, it will be like another balance of 2 and 1/2 is like 3 and 1/2 ft high fence on top of the wall. So it's going to be a maximum whatever the maximum is for 6T. Yeah. So I mean how much screening does that really even provide? It will still provide 6t of screening for the neighbors. The neighbors will see retaining wall at the bottom and then 3 and 1/2 ft. No, you'll from the parking lot you'll see retaining wall and then three and a half three and ft. Yeah. Are you going to see the same amount or are those or those properties higher along Quant? They they are higher on the higher side. So they will see probably 3 and 1/2 4 ft. A 3 and 1/2t fence.

One thing we could do again is something that the board would have to decide is we can put a variance provided the applicant is okay with it to say that they can exceed the 6 ft total height. Why I'm bringing it up? And that for that would give you you could tell them say 6 ft above whatever the uh level of the wall height is which would provide more screening. want to bring that up. Okay. So, I just want just to be to complete this. The applicant seeking a variance to allow a fence along the rear side higher than six with a the amount to be decided potentially during discussion with the board. Is that correct?

If the board would want to impose that as a condition of application approval, yes, the applicant would be fine with that. Okay. So, they they have to seek to apply. We can't force it. No sort of variance. That's what I want. We would seek that. So that becomes another area from Navy. That's so good. That go with that. That helps. Um, do you have more? No, that was it. Okay. Anyone else? The signage you were talking about along Hamburg turnpike, what what would be that what would that be for? Was it for the stores for the apartment complex? The eight apartments or whatever? for stores. It would be for the stores. Okay.

And a building number maybe. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Here. Anything else, Bill? No. Uh. Yes.

Thank you again for your presentation. I just had a quick clarifying question and you probably went over this. Can you just uh explain what exactly is happening with the landscaping in the front and how this has or has not changed from what we last saw? Well, in the front it's changed significantly. Uh, if you recall like we were we there is an existing parking from the stores which had been eliminated because the county will not allow us any parking along Hamburg Pike. And so what we did is we added a sidewalk along Hamburg Pike with a green strip with landscaping on it. And then based on the board member's comment, we're going to further reduce this existing asphalt by turning into green for the green area in the front.

Thank you. Other board members questions. John, um the tenant that's the most south right now, it's a um a pharmacy. His exit in the rear. Can you explain? It looks like on the drawing there is a huge like rectangle. Not sure what that is there. Yeah, that is the there is an existing door uh from that store. Okay. So, so this is the existing door and with with a slight ramp like to meet the existing grade there. So, that is going to be redone because we are proposing a walkway as I mentioned earlier from these doors in the back uh to access the trash enclosure as well as to the parking area. Okay. And then for the uh restaurant that's there

is the same all the doors that opens up in the rear. Okay. Yeah. They will be having this uh walkway sidewalk connecting to the trash enclosure as well as to the parking area. Okay. And that'll be a gate there that they'll be getting out or is it going to be open? How is that? It's going to be open. It's going to be open. Yes. Okay. Um the tenants, both the um pharmacy and the restaurant, have they be been considered or asked their opinion of the project? Uh my I haven't I haven't uh discussed that with me, but my understanding is the owner probably had discussed that. I would just be curious say for the restaurant here we're talking about accessibility in the front.

I know he has some delivery service and currently he's got disability. So I was just kind of curious if he had his opinions. Uh I spoke with the applicant. He has spoken with the tenants and they are okay with uh the proposed change. They're okay with Okay. Um, different topic. In our master plan, it does say that um, it asks to consider um, the use of the burrows DPW for parking. Has that ever been brought up, which is the adjacent property that you have in the back? That's way down though. That's depressed quite a bit.

Just saying what's in our master plan hasn't been considered. for this project to use there. I'm sure right now you're sure it's part. Yeah, I don't think so. is being considered because I believe based on our assessment of the existing uh uh uses plus the additional use that we are proposing the tenant I think the lot itself the parking we are proposing will be more than enough uh to accommodate both the uses on the property and you will hear testimony from the planner on on that and and we're doing we're going to redo that whole area so we're changing that okay go back my thank All right. Anyone else?

Yeah, I have a question. Yes. I'm still a little confused about the sign that you're going to be putting up. Can you show us again on here where the sign's going to be? The signage for what exactly? Well, I thought it was for the store. Yeah, there's a sign. Yeah, it is like Yeah, it is uh if you look at it like uh it is in this green strip uh on along Hamburg turnpike the residential I mean the landscape area that we have. So this is a freestanding sign that we are proposing right here. Okay. So right now there's no signs of any kind. Correct.

Why do you feel the need to put a sign up? You have them on the front of the stores. Yeah, it's more visibility for the stores. Uh because right now the stores have only their sign. So yeah, so it's more like like for uh I mean uh for basically just have a more visibility from the uh cars point of view like if somebody's driving they can see the sign that okay there is a deli here and there's a pizza shop and whatever. So and in addition they just ask to put trees in from the storefront. Yeah. No, I I see the trees but I just don't see the stores. The need for a sign that's all. But if you can't see the stores you need a sign. Yeah, un until unless you are in the front of that store when you see the sign. This is more for the car that are passing through for the businesses to attract. I understand what you're saying.

Is that necessarily agree with it, but I understand. Is that freestanding sign even going to be visible? It says in between the trees. Yeah. Know it's about I think 12 ft high maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yes. Are these shrubs in the front? Yeah, the shrubs at the Are those shrubs along the Hamburg turnpike shrubbery? Meaning like how tall roughly will they get? I mean, they have to be trimmed. They have to be maintained about 3 to four feet. Okay. There's something that obviously there to be a line of sight issue coming off Quanic Avenue.

Yes. And uh they have to be something that's uh attractive. You know, plain old plain old crappy boxwoods are fine up to a point. And that's something we will work with the township uh to basically make sure whatever is acceptable. The only thing that deer don't eat. True. I don't know if they're going to be there on the turnpike though. They may be roadkill. Um I I have a question. What if one of the tenants needs to use a handicap spot on a regular basis? We are meeting the requirements. So if they need to then that can be that can be dedicated to them. Okay.

Yes. We have enough as per the requirements. But if one is dedicated then that eliminates the availability for uh multiple or it can be accommodated by restriping for them uh specifically that they can use that handicap space one from one of the dedicated tenant space that can be striped and uh can be provided to them.

You you have both a um an elevator and a stairwell in that. Yeah, I know it'll be the architect, but both the elevator and the stairwell. Um, we are going to ask I don't know if you have any input on it about access to the upper floors for a second location. That's the architect. That's the architect.

Okay. Just want to make sure. All right. Anything else on the engineers uh testimony? Okay. Uh for the public, um we're going to open up the meeting after the testimony for public questions. And in case you weren't here at the last time we had this meeting, the the way this will work is we'll get all the testimony. The board will ask questions. that'll help answer some of the things that you might have and then I will open it up to the public so that you can ask questions of any of the professionals and you can also ask questions of the board members and after that we'll have final comments and you'll have another opportunity to make statements. The first open session is questions that you may not have had answered or if you're not sure what something's going to look like, you're certainly welcome to ask whatever you like. And then statements of opinion as far as whether you like something or don't like something or want to see something. That gets done under testimony and that'll be at the uh the last thing that happens before we go to a vote. So, just so that you're aware, we're not ignoring you all, but we'll certainly have ample ample time to go through things. You want to continue with your uh professionals?

Uh yes, thank you. Thank you very much. [Music] [Music] All right, let's see. [Music] [Music] He was sworn in. He was sworn in last time. Yes. Remain sworn in.

Uh can you please walk us through the updated plans you prepared and what is now being proposed for this building?

Sure. Uh I'm referring to uh sheet A2.01 of the architectural plans. These are dated uh 723 2025. Uh these are the latest drawings submitted as part of this uh application. Um I think the site engineer kind of brief uh everyone on the significant changes to the building. Uh just reiterate them. So there essentially two main changes. the the stair tower that was on the north side of the building or the right side uh was eliminated and was shifted to the back. It's an elevator and stair tower that's combined and that's been shifted to the back. Um and then the second uh significant change was the number of units. We had 10 original apartment units and now it's eight. Um we used to have five on each floor, now it's four on each floor. Um the the ratio is seven two-bedroom units and one three-bedroom units of of which two of those are KOA. One one of the two bedrooms is COA and and the threebedroom is a COA. Um essentially that was the you know the the change that um was made to the architectural plans. The uh the facades uh basically stayed the same except we we did eliminate the the tower to the right. So um you know that that's not seen from the front. It's only from the back. Um the question regarding the uh the number of access points there is only one access point. It's a egress. It's a entry and egress. You enter through the through the rear. There's a vestibule. There's an elevator uh kind of a mail area and then the fire stair that goes uh and connects the floor. It actually connects the basement as well but goes up to the uh upper levels. Does that satisfy all the requirements

of um residential buildings as far as access? Yes, it does. Yeah. Once we eliminated the fifth unit, it allowed us to reduce the the second fire. Uh and is this the the updated design still in keeping with the neighborhood? Yes. Yes. And then in fact the overall square footage went down from 19,700 ft to uh it's up here 19 um 191 ft. So there's a slight reduction in the overall square footage.

Yeah. Other than that, it it essentially stayed the same from what we had testified to last. Um, I don't know how to describe this except to say that in the front of the building where you have the bay type protrusions. Mhm. Uh, seems kind of u not very private. Um, if you're basically looking across 13 14 feet into somebody else's front window there. Sorry, where where are you referring?

If you're standing in the one one of the bays. Yeah. Right. And you have a side window that looks right into the other one across from

Yeah. I mean it this is common. I mean in in terms of like when you have row houses and you have bay windows essentially you do have conditions like that two of the two of the bays are within the same unit. So obviously you're looking at the same resident the one uh I guess the leftmost uh bay is part of the uh a separate unit but uh it's not a direct line of sight. I mean it is you know they are angled. Well, the whole idea of the bay is that you kind of when you're sitting in the living room or kitchen area that you kind of have a nicer view towards the street rather than just like a flat window. So, you kind of have a sort of 180° view versus just a flat view. And this is a common feature in this kind of a building.

Yeah. I think when you look at residential kind of uh low houses or just even homes, they'll have bay windows. Just it's a nicer feature. I think it adds to the uh aesthetics of the exterior of the side where rather than just having a flat block that it will be sort of faceted and yeah it's a threedimensional quality to it. Tell tell us tell us about the um exterior treatment of the building. Yeah. Let me um what is the rendering? I don't think I let me do the

second. [Music] [Applause] [Music] We don't get very much u visual information on what this looks like to the town and the neighbors to see, you know, what um what it's going to be like. [Music] Yeah, go ahead. You have a nice color rendering or something?

Yeah, I do. I was just trying to bring it up [Music] far away. Mr. Chairman, it didn't change the co-lication, right? I'm sorry. Did it change the co- obligation two units? Uh, I don't think so. They still have two COA units, right? Yeah, I think it's tasty. Yeah. Yeah. One, two, and one three bedroom. [Music] [Applause]

Sorry if there was for a second. My computer's not opening it up. [Music] on the back of that. Are these renderings that the board has seen before? Yes, there was there was a um I thought that was submitted also. It was also last time it was submitted and uh just made the update

evidence again if needed. I thought it was submitted a nice room as hard. Oh, okay. This is nice. Sometimes I don't know what's happen. I don't remember seeing a colored one either, but yeah, I did have one last time I presented at the meeting. If you change the scale up and down, it might show the whole thing sometimes. Try zooming out a little bit. Okay. Uh, if it hasn't been entered as an exhibit already, I would ask that it be applicant exhibit A1.

If you provide a color, you'd have to provide a color copy copy. Yeah, you just describe it when you're talking. So, what's on the screen right now is a 3D color rendering of the proposed project looking from the Hamburg turnpike. Uh, it's doesn't have a date on it. It's prepared by our office. It just says, um,

Hamburg turnpike mixeduse Compton Lakes, New Jersey. Um so so this uh 3D rendering shows our building and then you know sort of the photo montage of the adjacent building. Um you can see the ground floor has the retail spaces. The upper two floors have the apartments and then those kind of um tan colored bumpouts. Those are the bays that uh we were just discussing. Um and I again I think it adds a little bit of visual to it. The signage is essentially the same. We are kind of

resurfacing that. Um we're also the resurfacing the facade at the ground floor level with new brick. Um the upper the upper stories will be all uh Stuckco material. Um and then you know the the bays do kind of protrude out but they go right over the sign which you know the sign right now extends out slightly over the uh front of the building. So and on the right side we eliminated that um elevator stair tower. So it's now in the back. Is that an Ius type product on there? That is a Yeah, that's it's proposed that isn't the material.

Yeah, it's it's like an it's it's insulation that has stuckle over it. It's like provides continuous insulation and stuff. The problem with that is it's not very color fast, is it? Uh it is a light color. So I, you know, sometimes when you have really dark colors, it it'll fade a little bit, but our colors are essentially white and tan, so the won't fade as much. No proposal to use any kind of um faux brick or anything. Well, we do have brick down at the bottom that's on the facade. You can't really see it. Yeah, the

the the ground floor um I think it has some kind of stone right now, but we're going to proposing to renovate that and probably new brick on the side. Is the structural support for the upper floors what's on the side there sticking out? That's part of it. Yes, we will have some the the the existing building ends kind of where this flat face is where these little bumpouts are is part of the structural support. There'll be additional columns inside the building as well, but those would be uh part of the support system. Is the signage an auditing? Is that is that is the signage the signage is is that Yeah, that's what's there right now. Right. So, there's there's a set back a little bit. Yes.

Yeah. Is the signage right now overhangs slightly kind of creating like a covered walkway. And the sign among the uh shruby is not shown here. the sorry the signing no the the freestanding sign is proposed is further north it's not shown on this okay to the right of the picture to the right of the driveway [Music] it's a lot of white

um have you have you looked into how the aesthetics and materials of this facade would match the uh aesthetics or materials, a lot of facads in the immediate vicinity and or in the rest of the town. Yeah, I mean I I did look down this street. It it's really a mix of, you know, different finishes and, you know, there really looked like some of these older kind of, you know, retail, you know, one one story, twotory type structures that really didn't um you know, we we were just trying to propose something new and refreshed on the site. Um, but it is still in keeping with the style of the neighborhood.

And again, we're trying to break up the character by, you know, creating not just a flat plane, but these threedimensional bays that uh I'll break up the facade and give us some threedimensional quality to it. I think the white breaks out just cuz we know our town, we put a lot of brick in, you know, recently. So, the white separates it out a little bit. We have a lot of older brick in a lot of the store rooms. I I was the main reason I was bringing it up. I know someone else brought up brick. I know you brought up brick. I was wondering if it is, you know, better to do something that's cohesive with the rest of their brick structures or if it is better to do something that uh kind of sets itself apart, but it was an open discussion.

The building right across the street's white. Yeah, white. I I think that

we ever occupy it. the way the town is sort of eclectic as far as the buildings are. It adds a lot more character than something like Wanuku has which is all brick. Um I I think the design works well uh by just adding character to the building. Uh whereas some of the other buildings in the area, again it's not a downtown area per se, it's a uh but it uh I think it works well. And just out of I mean this small thing, but the protrusions of the windows on the drawing on the colored representation,

they almost don't look like they're bay. They look like they're straight back. Is is is that true or is that just the way I'm looking at it? No, they are 45 degrees on the two sides. Yeah, it it I mean maybe it's the angle, but no, they're meant to be. Okay. So, it's matching. That's all. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Any other board members have questions about that or any additional questions for the architect? John? Yes. Um just a couple of the mechanical features. So for example, say fire protection any sprinkler system. Yeah, we have to spray that that would be required for the res. And where's your fire department connection plan?

We don't I mean we'll work with the fire department where they want the fire department connection. I mean typically it's near the front or you know kind of whether it's on the front face or like on the side but near the front but um you know that that's we'll kind of coordinate to uh place it wherever they now with the second floor is there what about a stamp pipe in the stairwell is that planned?

Um we haven't got to that level of engineering but if that's building code requirement then yeah we have to provide that. Okay. Um I know you have currently a restaurant there. They have features of an oven and so forth. So their ventilation, what's your plan for that? Yeah, most likely we will have to feed it through to the apartments and then you know I mean we we've commonly done this where we have mixeduse buildings with you know restaurants on the ground floor and they have to get flu up to the past the the residential units and yeah we'll create a chase to allow for you know like a fire rate chase all the way up to the roof and then have the exhaust fan on the roof itself. Okay. Because I wasn't sure if that was on the plan.

It's not on the plan right now. I was actually looking at it before myself, but you know, something we'd have to coordinate in sort of the the back left unit and, you know, just have a a box out of maybe a twoft x2 ft chase that goes all the way to the roof. And we would ask that be part of resolution compliance should this get all of these. And I guess the one thing kind of missing in the picture is like the power lines. So typically they run along that side of framework turnpike but I think the power I think goes to another utility pole that's in the back I believe. Was there any plans for the change of the utility wiring or

No, not right now. I mean I know it yeah it kind of runs on the right side of this parking lot and it there's another pole towards the right like kind of right back here. There's a pole right on the property line between the two buildings in the front. Yeah. And I don't know where the next pole up this way is. I thought there was one also on this side. The right side. Right on the property line, I think. Or there's one in between the two buildings. I mean, that's right between the two buildings right there. There is everybody got a transformer. They're expensive bagels when you get treats.

All right. So the question is is there any plan for any of that changing? Um I do see a note on on the uh site plan about relocation of that one utility following that the one. Yeah. And I believe that was discussed at the last meeting as well that was was pointed out. Okay. All right. Because again as chairman brought up before just accessibility say fire apparatus in the front what could be going through the back with the big truss. So the only way to gain access is from the front wire going by is to minimize the accessibility. [Music]

And I know I'm going back a second, but those spots that are against the units themselves, those are for retail, not for uh rent renters. Correct. The these couple here. Yes. Yes. That the intention was to have the renters along the back and then on the north side. How are you going to stop renters? No, I thought the I thought the north side of the building, not the north side of the parking lot. I thought you said the north side of the park cuz there's like eight spots there. Okay. Right. So, those are those are uh retail parking. Yes. Closer to the building.

And are they going to be I know we covered this, but are they going to be marked so tenants don't park there? So, there is a place for retail space to stay up. We can we can mark them. And I believe the engineer also testified that the tenants spaces that are assigned will be marked for their use. So you have guests over and they look for a spot, they're going to park in those retail spots. If they're not marked, understood. I would I would put an hour limit on it or something, you know, I can certainly discuss that with the

uh any other questions for the architect? Okay. Thank you. Okay, great. I'll have my

house come up. Okay. Please state your name. Spell your last. It's Paul Ricky. R I CCI. Do you swear or affirm? the testimony you'll give this evening before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you got uh can you please elaborate on your license and qualifications as a professional planner? Sure. Um where's is this the answer? Yes.

Yes. I'm a licensed professional planner since the year 2000. I have a master's degree in city and regional planning which I received from Ruckers University in 1997. I'm currently a municipal planning consultant to six towns. I I do additional work as well in other other towns. Um um I've been qualified um throughout the state over 250 or so towns. Um never here locally though. Well, we'll make it 251. Okay. Are your licenses current in New Jersey? Yes, they are. Does the board accept Mr. Richie's plan? Thank you. Okay. Uh so can you please elaborate on the variances requested for this uh project from a planner's perspective?

Sure. And just just a little background. Um as part of my my review, you know, I looked at your most recent master plan, the 2017 master plan. I was in the area several times. Uh I I did measure some of the signs in the area to give the board uh information about how our how our sign package uh compares to what's out there. um you know, reviewed your zoning ordinance, um site plans, had several calls on on the case and the like. Um the project itself, it seems it's it's really geared towards meeting the recommendations in your master plan. Um when I reviewed in my review of the site, it is a site that it it does have deferred maintenance. It's it's not really, in my opinion, providing a really attractive aesthetic in this corridor. And really what I think what what is occurring here and what your master plan is calling for is is what the applicant is trying to work with this board uh to achieve as part of this application. Um with that said it is existing site that already has some nonconformities. You saw the impervious coverage today at close to 90%. It looks like that's going to be reduced just based on the changes that the board asked for under what's what's existing and parking today and asphalt today is set almost property line to property line. So the extent that um we're seeking variance relief associated with those really existing conditions, we're going to seek that on the C1 hardship provisions for legally existing non-conforming uh conditions in that report, excuse me. uh with the remaining variances, we're going to be seeking those under the C2 flexible standard where we can show we advance the purpose of the municipal uh land use law and we're going to advance your master plan and that they can be granted without a substantial detriment to the public good, namely the surrounding property owners without a substantial detriment,

key word being substantial, uh to your to impair your intent and purpose of of your zone planation. It's slightly higher. Uh it it is slightly higher but I believe that the applicant is proposing to to add some additional green space based on what the board has asked for. Correct. That was my sitting down. So I don't have that calculation. Since this application was I think 6% above existing it seems pretty logical that it's going to be reduced under the existing condition. So the extent that we're seeking that variance it's to reduce the impervious coverage below the existing condition today. Is that clear?

Mhm. Okay. Um, in in in my review and I mean I have a pretty detailed outline and um I'm going to go through that outline. Um, I saw this as as an opportunity again to to provide a new attractive gateway building. Um, we're in your gateway uh zoning district here and it seemed to be again a significant emphasis um in your master plan. Uh I think it was a uh tremendous benefit associated with the revisions that occurred since last time we were at the board particularly that backout parking. I mean that's a condition that exists in the area at some other properties. I mean this area developed a long time ago. That's how things occurred back then. We all understand that that's going away and hopefully that does provide incentive moving forward for other projects to follow along uh to that suit. county clearly had a strong emphasis in in that regard. Um, regarding um uh some of the changes, I don't want to be be repetitive, but again, this project we went from 10 units to to eight units. That backout parking was removed. The relocation of the trash enclosure to the rear of the the site. Now, while we are seeking that that small about I think it's about I'll give you the exact number in a second, but less than a three-foot encroachment into the rear yard associated with that trash enclosure that would adjoin your DPW yard as I think the chairman said that that's at a significantly lower grade and there's really no physical relationship between those two sites and that area is all pretty much treed up as well. So there's no real negative input uh impact in that regard that that that I see from a from a a planning standpoint. Um and then some of the changes also uh previously some of the drive aisles weren't uh uh conforming at 24 ft. That's that's all been uh

improved and there's there's more on-site landscaping. Um, since this meeting started, I I I saw there's going to be some changes to the buffering along the the residential property line, maybe with fencing and a combination of the both. So, it it seems to me here, it's clear the applicant is trying to do its best to take an existing site into and harmonize it with the neighborhood to the best uh uh as as possible. I mean, clearly a key issue here is off- streetet parking. Um, from my perspective, you know, I I I work in towns and and I testify, you know, parking is one of the greatest limiting factors when you're looking at this style of development, mixeduse development. Um, your your parking standard of of two spaces per residential unit. I mean, that's what was being provided by the applicant for residential. While that's a it's an adequate standard, it's the same standard for under the residential site improvement standards for a three-bedroom single family home as well. Two and a half spaces would be the same as for a fourbedroom single family home. So to put in perspective how a parking is generally looked at, it's it's a high and it's a conservative standard. Um um and here we we do have the benefit of all four stores are existing and when you have parking standards clearly when you have a zoning standard the need is going to vary based on a use. I mean the greatest example is typically if you have a shop right compared to a food town with the same I mean typically that shop right has a greater parking demand just because it's a busier land use in the area. Here you do have the benefit of all those uses are in place in the testimony from the site engineer that the maximum parking that was witnessed on the site was for 14 spaces. So with the 38 spaces despite the 46 uh uh

requirement um what was observed on site was a maximum of of 14 spaces for the for the commercial. no residential exists today and that the applicant would provide two spaces for the residential that would be dedicated. So we feel despite the parking relief that adequate parking is being provided as a part of this land use and and here there is a balance that is occurring because you do have competing interests. You have in you have the need for parking, you have the need for landscaping, buffering and the like. So, um it it's my opinion here in the way that we're delivering this land use that providing as much parking as we can is a better zoning alternative than you know taking existing parking that's too close to the property line and and and trying to cut that back. the trash enclosure. Again, that's a little too close to the rear property line and not meeting all of the landscape requirements on site despite the fact that we are adding to um your site. I I I did look at your master plan and I'm going to try not to read every point here, but your 2017 master plan, the gateway area objectives advanced by this project. Promote redevelopment of the burough's southern gateway along with Patterson Hamburg and Turnpike to improve the physical design, parking and circulation and streetscape conditions. here. You know, we proposed a new mixeduse building with affordable housing, landscape improvements along the entire street frontage, including the Quanic Avenue and removal of the front parking. So, we advanced that objective, establish shared parking, municipal parking, and structured parking arrangements located to the rear of these properties in order to facilitate redevelopment, revitalization of the business district. Again, we're removing that front parking and we have parking on the the side uh and rear of the building. So, we're making that more

conforming to your to your master plan. Establish new use bulk and design standards that encourage multi-story mixeduse buildings that are pedestrian friendly. Again, we have a multi-story mixeduse building um with sidewalks along the entire frontage. So, we advance that objective. As a planner, I think it's important also to speak about this project and how it relates to how the state looks at projects like this. And uh New Jersey Future is a think tank down that provides its own um uh provides its own reports and analysis for for for the public and and planners typically look at. And this demonstrates the need that a project like this provides um to residents in in the region as a whole. and they indicated in 2024 that New Jerseyy's present housing affordability crisis stems from a shortage of smaller lowerc cost housing options and that housing costs are among the highest in the country. The state ranks seventh in median rents cost. Uh it says that the state is losing younger households to other states and evidence points the high housing costs as one of the reasons. North Jersey was recently rated as the number one most difficult region in the country in which to find an apartment. And that's uh ROI New Jersey.com. Um and and New Jersey future continues to indicate uh to create more of the kinds of homes that younger households are looking for in the neighborhoods they want to live. New Jersey should continue revising and it's zoning and parking requirements. So the house the type of housing that's needed gets built. I mean I I I see this type of housing as as you have the two co-a units. It's the type of housing that's workforce type housing. people getting started out and an opportunity for maybe older individuals. They want to stay in

town, they can sell their home and and have a a new place to to live as well. These aren't family type units. These are people starting out and the like in my opinion. Um, what I did find interesting as well is that I think to me as a planner I I at least found it interesting is that New Jersey has the highest incidence among the 50 states of people ages 18 to 34 living with their parents and that's 43% or nearly half as reported by New Jersey Future in 24. This gives them a place to to to move out of the house in my opinion. So as a planner I think there's a significant need for for the h type of housing that that is being uh proposed here. So essentially many benefits could could benefit from that as well. I I I did speak about the trash enclosure. Um again that borders the the DPW line. We're trying to move it away as far away from residential as possible. I think that the site as proposed works. It's a better land use alternative than did initially. Um, again, I already mentioned there's the it's a difference in separation. There's trees back there. We're just a couple feet uh uh shy of meeting the requirement. So, we're we're stantially compliant and we meet the sideyard requirement where we did not meet that uh previously uh as well.

Can I just ask one clarifying question? Yes. Uh we also have the minimum uh rear yard setback where 35 ft is required and we are proposing approximately 28.

Yes. and that and thank you. And uh for the building itself that relates just to the the stair tower to provide access to the building uh the majority of the building uh in the in the rear yard will have a setback of approximately 51.88 ft where 35 ft is required. So if there's an area where an encroachment is needed to provide that that access to the upper stairs, it's the base pl best place to place it. Um it doesn't impact um views from the street. uh it it borders an area that has a a a high degree of of vertical separation from the DPW yard and has that additional um high tree line that that would screen it. Uh on balance, the majority of that rear yard setback exceeds the requirements and we we adhere to every other requirement um for the for the building itself. And that building is is well under the amount of building coverage that is allowed for the district that approximately 11% less. So we're not overbuilding here. We're just looking for an encroachment into that rear yard for the for the stairc um regarding the um the signs. Um my observations were that here you have a a small shopping center with with four businesses. Um the applicant well part of beautifification while adding those street trees. Those street trees are going to block buildings and signage. So I I do believe that there is the need for a freestanding sign here. Um this site is 2.7 times larger than the minimum lot size for the district. We're seeking a 32 ft uh freestanding sign where 15 square ft is allowed. So on balance, your your your ordinance, the

area anticipates this amount of this amount of signage. And I I I did measure um in my review of of your of your sign regulations. I mean, it seems clear that the intent is to control appearance here. Um, and that the ordinance itself does not change the permissible size of the sign if the lot's larger, if there if there are additional businesses or the like. So, if you're on a 10,000t lot with one uh business, you have 15 square ft. Or in our case, if you have um a lot that's 27 times larger than that with four uh uh commercial spaces, you still have the same requirement. And I I believe despite the the slightly larger sign that it would not result um in a substantial detriment to the character of the area. I measured the Gulf sign um our sign is what 12 ft high I'm sorrying.

Yeah, it's 12 ft high and 32 square ft. The golf sign I measured to be approximately 16 ft high and approximately 50 square ft. What I do is I measure one dimension, place it to scale, uh, and then I give a a very good estimate of the size of the sign by by doing that. And the rightway sign, I measured at 22 ft high with approximately 58 uh square ft nearby. So immediately adjacent to us, there's there's signs that are significantly taller and larger than us. So it it won't feel out of place uh in my opinion. Also, it's it's better suited where we're placing it, uh, surrounded by landscaping, adjacent to the roadway, where it could be visible. If it's not placed, um, essentially where it's currently proposed, it would have to be placed in a parking area, which I don't believe would result uh, in an improvement by meeting the the 10-ft standard. So o overall, you know, it it's my finding that that this application um advances several purposes of municipal land use. So I'll go through those in a minute a minute and um can overall results in in sound land use planning. And again, just to summarize, uh we're providing two affordable units, six workforce housing units. We're making significant improvements to the building facade, improvements to the condition of the parking lot, new landscaping, improve storm water management, new site signage, uh and and the like. And for these reasons, we meet several purposes in this millennial law. Uh purpose A, the advancement of your master plan, uh promotes the general welfare of the community. Uh I talked about the need for this type of h housing which advances purpose G to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of residential uses and also I believe through the uh purpose I to promote desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good civic design. I think this is a substantial improvement to the visual

character of the area from what it from what exists today. Um, regarding the the negative criteria, uh, I believe the variances can be granted without a substantial detriment to the public good of the surrounding property owners here. The applicant is looking to improve that relationship with the improved uh, buffering uh, and the like and without a substantial detriment uh, to your zone plan. Um, in this case, the development of the upper floor apartments would not directly conflict or have a substantial detriment to any of the land uses in the surrounding area. Uh, rather it would implement your mixeduse vision for this area as indicated in your master plan. Um, there's there's sufficient infrastructure in the area to provide uh the services. the building is is fully conforming to setbacks with the exception of the stair tower and I mentioned that that building footprint is well under uh the amount of square footage that's permissible in the zone. So we're asking for place some more to the rear yard rather than in in other areas of the site. um mixuse building would exude a positive aesthetic environment and and as we indicated despite the the variance for parking we believe that ample off streetet parking is being provided in terms of your your the zone plan uh again this fulfills uh several objectives of your of your zone plan um the improvement of visual impairments and sight aesthetics high quality new housing and that create creation of both lowincome and new workforce housing So again, in balance and to hear the benefits are are substantial. Um the negatives are slight and that I believe that the benefits greatly outweight the detriments overall. So I think this is a it's a good application for the town and and one that I hope the board supports.

Thank you. Does have any questions? Tyler, thank you. uh the Edgewood teachers report or study that you were referencing. Can you provide that citation?

Um I will. Yeah, it's it was updated. I've I've relied on it several times. It was most recently updated 2024. I'll provide your any board members have m questions to Mr. Ricky. Seeing none. Uh it was a good presentation. I appreciate the um the insight on the planning end of it. Um we don't have any more questions for you, sir. The the only thing is our attorney said, I didn't mention because defense variance may have been added as part of uh this evening and I think here if the board feels that adding additional height provides increased buffering um to the residential property owners, I mean clearly that's a that benefit outweighs the detriment and that would meet the burden for for the fence varian as well. Great.

I just wanted to say that. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um what I'd like to do now is take a like a quick break and um then when they come back when we come back in about 5 or 10 minutes at the most uh I'd like to have the meeting opened up to the public for questions um of the of the uh professionals and then we'll go from there. So we'll uh break. It's now 9:05. No no and uh just come back please in no more than 10 minutes. 5 minutes if you can. You call back. I'm professional. Say that again. Do we need another roll back?

I think I got an extra one. No, no, I got one. Okay, we're uh we're back in session on the meeting. This application is uh PB2501. Okay, at this point, I'm going to open up the meeting for the public. Again, it's just for questions. You can ask a question of any of the three uh professionals that made testifying tonight. And if you do, just come up here and state your name and address for the record and then go ahead and ask your question and then we'll get answers for you. Actually, your professionals aren't in the room. We have to get him here. Uh I'm sure he'll be back. There he is. Okay. Do they need to be sworn in or Mr.

Ricky? Those are questions. Okay. Just questions. Sorry. Oh, well. Bootsman's not here yet. Okay. So, I'll start off with whoever has a question, please raise your hand and then come. Yes, sir. Come on up. [Music] You're welcome to have a seat there. And there's a microphone there. [Music] U my name is Frank Sneezek. I live at six for quantic

six. Yeah. Um moved there in 1983. The reason I'm here is in regards to what you're talking about. Uh a a boundary encroachment. the there has to be questions. You'll have a chance to make a statement. Well, okay. My my question would in a form of a question is what how is this going to be handled? Uh if I'm 4T over, where do we go from here? Um I do have paperwork. Do you want to look at that or

you'll get a chance a second time? Like I I know it sounds very formalistic, but we have to do it. The first thing you get to do is because right now we are at the part where they have put on their case. So their case is on and then you get to question them. When they're done, then the public gets to put on things. That's just the way it's broken up. And I know it sounds way too technical. I mean, all that stuff you have in to talk about and to make a statement that'll be shortly that'll be tonight and it's going to follow the questions. Yes. Okay. I I'll I'll wait till uh you you reach that point. Thank you. You didn't mean to jump. That's okay.

Questions for the professionals, ma'am. [Music] Welcome back. Thank you. Hi, I'm Kimberly Adams. I live at 10 Ponic Avenue. Can I ask that the picture that was up earlier be put up so I can um the building itself? Still rendering. Yes, please. So I can just um And what number did you say? Ponic 10. Okay. Sorry. Right next to Frank. Excuse me. Can I reach? Oh, sure. Do you mind? No, no, no. You're okay. I I'll pull it up on you. Thank you so much. Is this the only rendering that was shown tonight? Just the first

You mean you're saying of the facade? Of the facade. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, before I start my question on the facade, is there also a picture of the backside of this facade? So, we could The architect's going to Okay, second. The architect's going to come up. Yeah, there's no rendering of the backside, but there are uh elevations of the backside as part of the application. Okay. Um, are are the their balconies still on the back side?

There there are four balconies on the back side. Two that are behind or kind of on the south side of the tower and two that are um north side of the tow. Okay. [Music] 1 2 3 4. It's a drawing. Uh, what? That's okay. Yes, it's fine. It's drawing 8400.

Sorry, I have my [Music] I just need to Yes. Thank you. So, this uh image to the bottom left corner of the page is a rear elevation and there's four balconies. Um one for the apartment on the third floor, one for the apartment on the second floor, and then on the south side of the tower. This the middle portion is the tower. Um, there's a balcony to the right of the tower and then on the third floor and then on the second floor there's four balconies. Okay. All right. Thank you.

All right. Um, if we could go back to the main. Oh, yeah. Thank you. I I need to see that so I can get to where the one that's in. Yes. Thank you. Um I heard um that the parking spots in the front um are now taking taken out. Um and can you tell me what will be there? Is that just pedestrian space or is that for deliveries or [Music] see right there there's there's green green space right in the there's green and then it looks like there's maybe a walkway in there. on yeah the county require us to provide a walkway in front as you see it in the picture then we have a green space then we have the existing asphalt okay

and based on the discussion today I think one of the board members suggested that we replace half of that asphalt space with more green space there okay and then there's a sidewalk that's now going to be built there sidewalk is in front right now by the road by the edge of the road okay and then um it was mentioned there is a pole that's between auto parts store and will that again will that be removed or is that what is going to happen that would carry wires for the I'm guessing the the street the entire Penber turnpile of the engine uh the pole by the auto uh store doesn't impact this project there's another pole by the driveway the existing driveway correct

and based on uh the plans that what they have is that that needs to be relocated and it will be relocated of of course uh away from the driveway uh it's where the access uh drive aisle goes into the building into the parking area. So where would that pole be relocated? It it is relocated based on the utility company. Utility company usually design where it is appropriate. It depends upon what are the utilities running on that pole and they decide like okay how and where it's going to be located. So it could be that pole could be moved right into the back side of the homes that are there. No, it's in the front. So it has to be within it has to be within the right.

Okay. And the other pole that's between right now that you said doesn't affect the project. Is that going to be stay there? Uh I on our property it will it will be removed because we can run all the underground uh utilities within the property. So that hole is coming out. Yes, it can be removed. Yes. And then the utilities will go underground to serve into the ground. Okay. All right. And we have a note to that effect on our plan as well. And on the side of the building now, um there is going to be tenant parking. Sorry, can you see that picture again? Not on the side of the building. Uh the north where these nine spaces and then the eight spaces right here.

Absolutely. Just to clarify, it would be a total of 16 because it will be two for a total of 16. So, okay. And um they'll be tagged. So, when I don't want to I don't want to go there. Can I see the main picture again? Oh, of course. It's easy for me to see. No, no, it's okay. Yes. The blueprint. Sorry. Okay. So, the cars that are here on the side where I'm pointing on there's the white car on the right. Those are tenant parking. Those are customer parking. Customer parking. Okay. And tenants are in the back then. Correct. It'll be if I would be back there and then it would be along here which is tenant parking is going to be headed to the wall. Okay.

On the perimeter and across from them towards the property line is going to be tenant versus customer. Okay. And where are the delivery trucks and um where are the delivery trucks? Where do they go? right now. This area in front of the white car, this is the area, the white car that you see here. This So, how big is that? It's about uh I would say 12 ft by 20 ft deep. So, it's enough for a panel van or something in that size. Yes.

Okay. So, what about the large trucks that come to deliver? Uh we don't expect any uh currently the based on the tenants there is no large delivery large truck. No no no beer trucks or anything that'll be coming in. The beer standard like box uh box style trucks. Yes. Okay. And what about um during the lunch hour? There's um landscapers who are parking right now um in the Can we go back to that main picture? Sorry. Okay. I'm happy to help. I'm not an architect but um okay um so they park now I can't see on this side but there is the other parking area that is orders

comes off of photo where yes photomat yes exactly I remember that um and I'm sorry was there discussion on what is happening are you trying to still put the spots in that yes area okay and will those be um tenant parking, customer parking, customer parking. Okay. So, the right now during the lunch hour and things like that, there are large um trucks who are working, landscapers, they have double rigs, they have where when they go to eat at the pizza, where where will they park? Do you have parking accommodations for them? No, we don't.

No, we don't. And again we don't expect like again if they're parking illegally there if they're not supposed to because we have designated spaces 9 by 18 if the car doesn't fit in those spaces then they cannot park. So you said you don't expect you don't expect like the larger trucks you don't expect the trucks that go to the stores now to come after this is built. There is no provision for providing parking for bigger uh like a landscaper who wants to eat lunch in that area there. Nor is there a requirement. Yeah, there is no requirement. Okay. Thank you.

So if if they cannot fit their car there then if they're sticking out then they're blocking the driveway or blocking the path for other cars which is illegal and the owner can call the police and the police can provided he gets title 39 coverage. And what is title 39 coverage? that allows the police to enforce. Title 39 is the part of our state statutes that regulates what where you can drive and what you can do. Okay. And if an owner on private property agrees to give that to the municipality, then then the burrow lease can we go back to the Thank you. Thank you. How do we make a good team?

We do. So, the signage that's up now is against the building, but there's also talk um in asking for um let me see the signage, the maximum freestanding sign area. Um where will that signage be? I know we have to go back to that. No, it's okay. I'll let I'll let the engineer answer the question. Thank you. Yes, that's perfect. And that's proposed. It doesn't mean it has to stay there. Okay. So, let them tell you what they're proposing. Sure. You might have to I know that you're approaching approximately 32 square ft. It's right here. It's a freestanding sign right here between the two two shops

between the two about midway between Avenue and building. Okay. And that is you're asking for um the maximum permitted right now is 15 square ft and yours is 32 square foot sign. So, you're asking for I guess that to be um ruled on that it it's okay to do that. It's a variance. A variance. That's a variance. That's what we requested.

And you had um someone had mentioned that they took measurements of the other signs that are in the area and they're all much larger. Um, so I'm just wondering if it makes it right that because those are larger and maybe I don't know if they got variances if it, you know, it would be looked at at this hearing, right, for the variance hearing to make a decision on that. Yes, I'm just pointing that trying to point that. But we will consider size and location, lighting, and um the type of sign and the height. The height says that um the applicants requesting the sign height of 12 feet. Is that still or did that change? That did not change.

That didn't change. And so 10 ft is the free uh the ordinance limit. So Okay. Correct. We are requesting a variance for that as well. Right. Okay. Can I explain something real quick? Sure. When you asked why would you compare other signs? Yeah. The reason you would do that is in order to get a variance. You the rules are set. Let me go. In order to get a variance, you have to say that it would be a good idea and you have to say it wouldn't have a bad effect on the area. They very generalized. And if there's 19 signs that are bigger, what their argument is, and I'm not saying anybody disagree with it. What you would say they're saying is there's a bunch of big signs. We're not going to make a difference on signs. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing. That's why you would say that's that's why it is a valid point to bring up.

And are these well-lit lightup signs? Like I will look here. Uh the other signs you mean the signs? Yeah, the freestanding. Is that like a big bright sign? I'm not sure, but uh I believe it to the planner because he inspected that. Typically a sign is going to also have illumination question. So like you don't want the thing on all night long when it's not in use or you can dim it. So you know there's there are issues that can be discussed to mitigate some of the concerns and the planner can better answer. Okay. I'm sorry. Can you repeat part? Yes. I asked about the sign, the freestanding sign, and the the if it's

well lit, the brightness of it is going to be on all night. Talking about our proposed sign. Yes, your proposed sign. My understanding is the site engine that has not been determined, but I think it's reasonable for that sign if it's an issue to be turned off after business hours. That's traditional. So, let me ask this. So once do you need to provide that information before they can make a determination on the variance or no? Um I mean I I can't say that I I know the when signs are turned on. I didn't do that that type of analysis. Yeah.

Um I mean I'm sure that we can demonstrate that that the lighting of the sign will not in any way extend past property lines, but you won't see a lit sign at night. It will be on. I just didn't know if this is like a staged build. So as things come up, would we come in and review things certain variances or No, it's all or nothing. Well, it's it's a complete application whether it passes or fails. Okay. tonight. Okay, if we get that far. Okay, assuming that we do, which we should, then there will be a vote on it and the vote will determine whether it passes or fails.

Once it passes, then it passes with all of the requirements that were discussed and the attorney will prepare a resolution with conditions that say, okay, the applicant is uh granted an approval, for example, and these are the conditions he has to meet. Okay. So, if for example using the sign and we turn around and say, "Okay, well, it's got to be turned off at 10 p.m. Um, that'll be a condition of the resolution and then when the plans come back to us, they go to the engineer and planner for review. We look at them to make sure and I can't sign off on it until everything is complete." Got it. So, there's that protection so to speak.

Okay. Just can I add there is redevelopment does have some rules affecting light and types of light that can be used for signs. So this is in the redevelopment zone I think. Um so that there is some overlay on that. Not that they're going through redevelopment but there are some laws in place for that and the applicant is more than happy to comply with any you know requirements related to lighting of the signage as we previously indicate. Okay. Now, in the back corner, we had talked spoken about at the last hearing about the trash and then I believe that's being relocated now. That won't be in the corner that it was originally suggested. It's going more on the other side by where the auto store is.

I know you can. Thank you. Right there. It's uh right here. It's about as far away as it can get from the house. Okay. All right. And then you spoke some of um spokes about um to um for the homes that are right on the side and a fencing and some kind of um aesthetically for the noise and whatnot. Can I can you can we talk a little bit about that? Um what was said about that was there

well the discussion was basically that we would we would consider a request from the applicant to ask for an increase in the height allowance so that as an example if they were to choose this they could say we would propose a 6' high uniform height fence and then I asked about being solid not open and they said earlier that they would consider

either a board on board which is wood or they would consider a vinyl fence that would basically line the property and it would provide both a visual and a um sound impact reducer and that's the way it was left. We don't have a detail yet. Okay. And I just was asking because the um concern of course the balconies that I we saw that were on the back side um and the fence like I it's and I can I'll talk about this later. But it's right it's looking right into our yard. So that's why I was I Yeah. The height of the the height of the balconies is substantially above the height of the fence. Correct. Correct. You can't do it. Yes.

Okay. Okay. All right. But but that maybe you may have a thought about that because what they said without attaching a numbers there's a retaining wall and then there's a fence of x height and normally it would be a total limit of 6 ft but they have asked for something above 6 feet that members of the public may have on your during your statement time what you know something to say about that if this was going to happen might be right um I think that's all I have right now I thank you for your time thank Thank you for flip-flopping between the picture and thank you for coming and um thank you. Thank you. Another per. Yes, sir. Come up. State your name, your address.

When you get here, 10 Avenue 10. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. What my wife was talking about is the green space that you achieved in the front of the building, but not along where the residential of the community of Frank's will all those trees will be gone. And in my side of the back where the dumpster used to be should have some green space or with the ordinance 4T off of off of the property lines. question or you tell them. Um, I got a question. I'd rather see trees and bushes in the back than in the front of the building.

Question mark at the end of that. I'm It's just questions. You can say that. These are all supposed to be questions. Okay. You got to work this out. You got to work this out with the misses. Well, the pole that is existing on that wall and they propose it to put it into the back, right? That's that is holding the line of electric coming. Sorry, sir. He's shaking his head. Yeah, I'll let the engineer clarify for you. Good question. Okay. The pole that's right now that's between my property and Frank's property. It's right in the middle.

You're talking about this right here. Yeah, I'm talking about that one right there that supports the street electric from falling down. You proposed to put it to the back of the lot. Now, that host be that's supposed to be posted down to the ground. So, it's it takes that weight from the street right now. That's the way it is right now. The hole's here and there's a w a line coming down. Where in the back is that going to be posted to the ground so it doesn't fall down? There that is the pole relocation has to be closely coordinated with the utility company JCP know yes did you guys with them yet

it's a usual practice during construction project they do it they don't do it right now at this stage once the project is constructed when we have a more detailed engineering plans done then the JCPN will come and before like and then they will tell us like okay we can put a pole here we cannot pull a pole here we can run overhead here and underground there so that is all part of the precon construction. Okay. Um but that has to be coordinated with building [Music] and one more thing about another question.

Delivery trucks ample space for delivery trucks to come and go. I know for a fact there's tractor trailers going there all the time. So I don't foresee this arrangement working for them. Thank you. Anyone else like to speak or ask questions? I mean, yes, sir. Step up. Good evening, Brett Lake Bonica.

Uh, just could I get clarification, how many parking spaces are they short? Are they short now? I know they reduced the units. It was 45. Is it I don't know. There's been a ton of numbers thrown out. We are requesting a variance for the parking. We are proposing 38 with one EV credit and uh required as 45. Okay. So, seven spots clear or clearcut seven. Where are seven people going to park?

We don't we don't anticipate those seven spaces to be utilized based on the current usage of the commercial space. Tenants are staying there. So right now the maximum uh usage for during the feed time is between 10 to 14 parking spaces required of customers for retail store which we have ample space around them to put. Okay. And as uh the planner did also testify he he testified that he believed the parking was adequate from a planning perspective. Okay. When people have a chance to speak you can say that it's not adequate. You can ask now. to know how many clear if if there are if there's seven testimony. Yes, that's what you said.

Okay, you get an answer to your question and you can comment on your answer later. Okay. Um my next question is you're being asked to vote on a final approval. There was no mention Mr. Keing brought it up about the fire department connection uh any kind of uh standby connection and a stairwell. That's all typically what is one of the conditions is they have to satisfy the fire department and you there's change and I'm not saying anything's getting

police and ambulance police and ambulance. So the plans they'll have to say they're going to show the fire department we have this we have this we're going to put the line here and I'm not saying the words right and the fire department has to give the okay before he signs the plans and the engineer signs the plans. That's not uncommon that one that it's not a thing that you're going to, you know, everything that the public sees is is most definitely fair game here. But some of the technical things with fire department and police and other things, those are left up to those those professionals looking at say now you got to move it here. You have to put the line here. That that's that's not that's not uncommon.

Okay, I understand. But if the fire department connection is going to be placed in a spot where they have a less it takes away a parking spot because you can't park in front of a parking fire department. Now you're an additional parking space. Oh then they violated it and they can't they have a problem that no they wouldn't they couldn't be signed. They couldn't be signed because they don't have the parking space. I understand that. All right. My next question and uh they changed the egress one way egress and entry is one spot now just one way in one way out in the back where you're talking about the the rental areas. The rental area. So you're talking about back here?

Yeah. Is only to get to the apartments above. It's one way in one way down. Not for the car. architect this type of building as architect testified it is it has to meet the building code requirements complying with the building code requirements. Okay. So what is that based on the number of apartments? So if we have eight apartments you only need Yeah, it's based on the number of apartments per floor. Okay.

Okay. And my other last question longwinded uh gentleman testified to the master plan. Did he take into consideration the apartments that are already built? You have what 200 and something pending apartments that are not completed that are going to be have to be filled. Um, however many other apartments on Guanu AB that are still being built. You approved what was it 10 already on Cooper Oil property, old gas station. You have the development and the June meeting, right? There was a plan for the quarry with that was going to meet your low income requirements for a decade moving forward. That's Riverdale

or Blooming Deal, either one. But you know, was that considered like is this, you know, everything was rosy according to him. But, you know, good evening. And you know, you know your town better than I do. And I I did through my going around town noticed all the development. I saw the downtown right by this building. uh and the like. But no, my analysis did not include that because my analysis included what the master plan indicated for for this specific area for the municipality uh and what your zoning ordinance called for and what I understand it's permissible to be built there.

But it was encouraging um this is a gateway district for it to revitalize and to redevelop. The actual master plan spoke to those elements to encourage this type of development to revitalize this specific area. So I think it's different for for that reason. Um um I can't say I analyzed the the other areas of municipality because I was focused here. Yeah.

Okay. And just for your information, the um state of New Jersey has found a way to make sure that the building of rental and housing units will never end because they have every several years they have a new requirement. And so you struggle in a developed town as we have here and most other towns that are like this to all of a sudden come up with a 100 fair share units. Where do you find them? And so we're struggling to get to the numbers that we need for this new round as probably every other town does.

So I wouldn't go by what you see being built because in a few years they'll probably double it. Okay, thank you. Sorry for that bad news, but we have to deal with that all the time. Anyone else care to speak? Ask questions. Mr. Evangelista, welcome, sir. Yes, sir. Hello, Evangelist. Ringwood Court. I'm a little bit late to the game, so I apologize if some of these answers have been asked in previous sessions. I have to sit. You don't have to sit, but you got to come near the microphone.

Come up here. All right. So, um, first of all, let me commend the applicant because it's always good to see people that want to redevelop and invest in the Burough Pump Links. I can see that as a a longtime homeowner here, it's good to see. So, thank you. Um, some quick questions. There are questions. Questions. Good. Are there any snow retention areas built into the parking area? I will let the engineer answer that question. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a space like uh in the back the green spaces that you see like that can be used for the stores? No retention. Will they displace cards? Cards? No, they will not. All right. I understand there's a gate. Is there a gate between the two buildings? The two building owners in the back. You mean in the back?

No. There's going to be no gate there. It's free and open access. No. No. It's sealed. No, there's no gate now. It's cut off. It's cut off. So, you're not going to be able to go around the building? No. Okay. That said, what is the distance between the rear wall of the building to what would be that uh retaining wall? What is that distance? I can't see it from up here. Are you saying from there all the way to the back wall? 51 ft. 51 ft. Not counting. Okay. Um, another question. Is this building fully sprinklered? I thought I heard someone say that the basement and the retail is not going to be but the apartments are the architecture

on the proposed that the the apartment units will be placed. So if a fire starts in the basement of the restaurant or in the retail we have to provide a fire rating between like the retail tenants and the apartments. You don't think you don't think it'd be advantageous to sprinkle the entire building for the safety of all the rest? They may they may consider it, but based on building code, we're not required. Okay. Thank you. Uh, a couple more. All right. Guest spaces. Um, the one thing that I think it's Mr. Richi, is that how it's pronounced? Uh, Ricky.

Ricky. Ricky. um he made a comment that was very interesting in that these apartments and I'm paraphrasing here but the apartments are not really meant for necessarily older people or older residents that want to stay in the community but aimed more at the younger population and people that would want to get a start on the correct way last year I felt sir that it would be likely for both types people starting out and people that wanted to stay in Okay. Potentially stay down, sell their house, and have a a new place that they used to live.

Because the reason I'm asking that is I know this for a fact from other towns where people, for example, myself, I can invest in one of these. These are rentals, correct? All rentals or are these for sale? So, I could rent it as the primary renter and then I could sublet to, for example, we're in proximity of Ramapo College, William Patterson College. I can sublet in the three-bedroom apartment. Okay. To for students where do we park is that going to be prevented no or prohibited?

So typically in a residential lease uh they have a sub lease and assignment clause in which you'd have to get the landlord's permission to do so. And I don't think it is the intent of the landlord to permit subs but in any case you wouldn't be allowed to do so without the consent of the landlord of the landlord. But if he consented that we could and then we double our parking requirements perhaps. I don't understand what you mean by double the park. Let's say several people invested in these apartments and then decided to rent them to multiple people, two and three occupants in the same apartment. Okay.

Now we end up instead of having two and a half cars per apartment unit, we're ending up with four or six. Where do those people park? So the the units would each be assigned two parking spaces. That will not increase and that's it. Regardless of the number of occupants that would correct it's two per unit per unit because I know in one s southern Bergen County town was just recently in there

where they limited the parking on the main street because of that overflow and it became a problem for the residents and that's the only reason I asked on that. All right. So, I think um Oh, the elevator side is the last one. And I'm asking us for a friend. You know who it is. Our ambulance volunteer. Not that it it makes a difference whether to pay or volunteer. They're answering calls in buildings of this type. And the elevator is not big enough for a stretcher that is fully laid out flat. So what they have to do is they literally have to to bring the patient up to put the backup on the stretcher to get it into the elevator for transport. So my question is, is this the oversized elevator that will accommodate a stretcher when it's fully flat? Let's say they're doing CPR. They can't sit this person up. They've got to be in a prone position and it's necessary that they do it. And there are there are buildings in this area, relatively new buildings that they go to that do not have that size elevator. So that's

I'm going to look at Sure. Absolutely. Sorry. The architect. Yeah. So the requirement is I believe 40 four stories or higher would need a stretcher. We probably would put something larger here just because you know that's the only elevator that has ability to move furniture up and down. So we typically do provide structure elevator. We haven't committed to anything here but I think the size of what's shown there would accommodate. Yeah. I would suggest that if you do put an elevator in that you go for that reason. Just to cl just to clarify, it is not required that we do that for this and and if if they get an elevator that's larger, it can't affect the outside of the structure because correct. Then they come back, right?

That's why I wanted to clarify it's not required for this for this kind of building. Right. And and just so you all know there the applicant is required to comply with the standards or requirements not to exceed them but they can but the other problem is if they don't meet those standards then they get the variance. So if they've met the requirements then they've met the requirements and they have a right to an approval based on that. when they can't, they get asked for the variance and then as you see tonight there are several variances that have to be approved. So yes, uh well I just have one one more question.

Sorry. Um hold on. Hold on. Is there anyone else that would care to ask any questions? No. Okay. Go ahead. One more question. I don't normally go back to the second time, but Thank you, sir. I didn't ask about the employee parking. Where are the employees of the businesses going to park? Uh the calculations for the retail store requirement is part of including the employees as well. So the employees will park within this area as well in the customers customer parking area

in the customers. So how many spots are for customers? Uh we have 38 - uh 16, right? 22. Is it 12? 22. Yeah. Okay. Um there are also in the back um there's like backs of trucks, cargo just sitting on the ground. Will those be removed? Oh, currently you mean? Currently there is. Is there a plan for those? Everything will be Okay, we're done with questions. Do I get to ask? You got an extra one in there. Can I submit a document now or do I wait? Wait when you make the statement and if it's document I just didn't want to open. You could but um

never if if it's if it's Thank you. Okay. Seeing no other questions, I'm going to close the public question period now. Thank you for your input. Okay. Do you have anything else to add to the testimony from anybody based on what you've heard? Uh, I do not. I have a summation, but I will wait until

Okay. Well, we'll get to that. I just want to make sure there's nothing that came up that would require additional comments. That's all. All right. So, we're going to go to questions that the board may have, see if there's anything else that we need to address. Then I will go to statements and statements from the public and then we'll take the last stab at it to have any last minute comments and pick a vote. So with that said, anyone have questions right now? You got your share of question.

One last question I did forget. Uh property management. Does the owner intend on doing it himself or does he have a property manager company that will oversee the building? Yeah, we'll be doing that. Okay. Thank you. It's up to you. You got it. Okay. Got it. All right. Any other questions? I just have one. Oh, yeah. Um, this might be overly technical, uh, but the drawing of the bay window almost looked like the bay windows were a little bit recessed. Is that true or did it just look that way in the rendering?

Bay windows are protruding. [Music] Okay. Okay. Good. Good. All right. So, you want to go ahead and sum up summarize your I'm sorry. before her. Oh, yeah. Okay, that we can do that. Sure. Mr. Chair, can I pull a question? Sure. Um, on the affordable housing units, was there any testimony on complying with U-Hack or are you hiring an administrative agent? Like, was there any testimony on that before?

Um, no. I know that the um that the the mix would be the twobedroom and the threebedroom um we're going to have to comply with all the required new hack regulations. I guess I'm not sure how it's done locally, but through your local administration process. Yes. The requirement will be that they comply. Um they're going to have to get approved by Triad, who I think is the the affordable Phoenix the affordable housing um advisor and they're going to have to have their language indicating the restrictions going to have to be approved. I just want to make sure that that's addressed. Yeah. So, so that's our call obligation. Okay. And that will

and I think we're we're fully aware understand that the hardest part is to make sure the bedroom distribution is met. We can meet that. Yeah, that'll be one condition. Okay. It's a good thing to state it.

Okay. Now come statements. Anyone from the public wish to make a statement or if you have something to present, now's the time to do it. Again, come here. state your name for your record and your address. And uh we're going to limit it to 5 minutes each. Um it is getting late. We will run the meeting till 11. Uh and we'll see how everything goes. So I open the meeting to public comments. Anyone wish to comment. [Music] the gentleman just to the manager. I'm sure Miss Adams, are you going to comment? Yes, I am.

Okay. Why don't you start? Okay. Otherwise, if no one shows up, I close it. You remain standing for this. I swear to you. Please raise your right hand. State your name. Spell your last. Uh Kimberly Adams. A D A M S. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give this evening before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing about the truth. So, help me God. So, help me God. Yes. Um, first, um, I submitted via email, um, back the last two times ago. I just want to make sure everyone got it. No, that that's when you put something in by email, that's not part of the record. You have to swear in and say you have if you have a copy of it, you

Sure, I do. I should I get that for tonight right now? Yeah, but I'm I'll I'm going to give you this piece of advice here. If you're handing in a document that's six pages long and they're going to vote tonight, it's not getting read, right? If you want to read it, you want to state it or give them a chance to, but just handing out a six page or three I don't even know how to them, but they they been my advice because there you can't you can't present evidence like that unless you're there and sworn in. So, they haven't they have not they've been advised not to read it because you can't because it's not fair to an applicant if you didn't show up. Um, they can't consider that because it wasn't sworn testimony. It's just our objection and that I'm guessing that's the same thing.

I understand what it just did, but the best thing you can hand it to them now, but if they're going to vote soon, it's you're you can think as well as I can. How likely will it be that they read it or would you like to state on the record what your objections are? Probably a better choice. I can do that. I'll just read it, but I have five minutes. All right, I'm going to skip a little. Yeah, it's fine. Just read it and be done with. Okay, thank you. But it's either you reading it for five, you stating it or them reading it. So, that's that's my whatever your preference. You got five minutes.

Okay, I'll take it. Um members of the planning board, um thank you for the opportunity to speak. I'm going to skip through the above. Um we are strongly opposed to this project and this is on behalf of um several of our street members on Quanic Avenue or here um we um it's being proposed and we feel that it's I'm sorry I'm just trying to summarize it. Um no one's going to rip it out of your hands or or get you out of here in five minutes. Okay. All right. get all your objections on the record.

So, we're strongly opposed to the project that's being proposed by Sarah Realy, especially because the applicant is requesting multiple variances and substantial relief from the burough's land use ordinances and zoning district requirements. These ordinance ordinances exist to protect the health, safety, and character of our community, and this proposal undermines those protections. We're also opposed to this hearing being conducted, but well, it's going. So, we were going to ask for stage so we could be on top of just anything that might develop. Um, [Music] we spoke about the front yard parking. We spoke about the side bridge setbacks. Um, this just all outlines the reasons why we oppose. Um, the required parking spaces. You've heard testimony to that. Um, and the lacking of that. Um, the freestanding sign. We discussed um the sign height um this signage setback um the shade tree um we've discussed more um I don't know if there are going to be animals or pets that was brought up last time but they'll be you know are there grounds for them if they you know for pet pet owners who need to take their dogs out or will they be walking them up quantic avenue and letting them go on our yard. We have a lot of overflow. I'm going to just stop. I'm just going to talk. Um, we have a lot of overflow um from cars, from um, you know, business owners, from overnight guests who are in the other apartment straight across the street from us. They all park in our streets. They stay there all weekend. They stay there during the week. People park when they take the bus um, into New York City. Our our road is completely distressed right now from all of that. Um, this only adds more to our concerns. Um, you know, we have a beautiful little street. Um, you know, there's garbage

when I walk to the store. There's garbage in the the parking area. I have pictures of that. When you go through, there's there's garbage that comes over into our fence area into our backyard. There is smoking on the backside. There's a smelling of marijuana in the back. These are just all things that, you know, is happening now. So, I don't know. No one's cleaning it up. They took my the bushes, the trees that divided us have been gone now for years. Um, they just cut them down. It's it's it's just a lot now. They want to put in something new with a lot more people. Um, and not a lot of space to do it. Um, especially with the cars and the trash and whatever else might be. Um, but that's just that's that's um trash and rodents. I spoke about that last time. Um, I know that the garbage is going to be moved to the other side. Um, but I don't know that could that could come in to light. Um, and just the construction dust and the health hazards alone, I think from this construction, um, it'll it'll generate dust. It will pose a serious health risk risk to nearby residents, prolonged exposure, um, and so on and so on. Um, and my biggest thing is my privacy in my backyard. That is the biggest thing to me. Those balconies are going to look over. I don't know who's going in there. None of us can say, you know, no one can say who they're going to rent to. We don't know what kind of family member come over and start hanging out with them. They'll be out on the back if they're making noise. We have they're smoking cigarettes on the back, you know. Um that's what's right in our yard. I want to be in the backyard with my kids, my family, our dog. And I think it's a total invasion of privacy for those homes that are

right there on the side. So that's I come with a lot of not just facts, but I'm trying to understand, but just a lot of emotional attachment to this home I've lived in for over 14 years. Um, and that's it. Um, I do have pictures um that are of the um employee parking that's in the back right now of trailers of Let me just ask you two questions. Did you take the pictures? I took I took some of the pictures someone else. Did you? Yeah. You have to testify you took them. And do they accurately portray what existed when they were taken? Yes, absolutely.

Yes. Uh you can mark them 01 023. And if you want to just kind of explain and you can hand them out, please let uh the attorney see them first. Sure, of course. So she has a chance to see them. May I borrow a pen? You This is in the back. This is okay. That is that. And you can see the containers with no wheels or anything on it. This is in the back as well. This is the pizzas um they have for fairs and things. They go out and that's it from the back. These are the people you want to hear. She's in favor of it. These are the people you want to convict.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought explain I You can tell her, but then tell them. I'm sorry. I was going to dance. And these are at lunch. Excuse me. Andy exhibit was it? 01 02. She'll she'll be naming them. And I think at the end they'll say only the ones you took. Yeah. The ones that you the pictures that you took. Yes, I took that. Oh, no. The lace printed it for me. Okay. Um but I can She's here if you want cuz her name is on that. She needs to testify. The person who took the picture needs to testify. Yep. I took it and it's an accurate representation of what existed.

All right. Now, same. Yes. Okay.

Yes. May I swear you in real quick? Please raise your right hand. State your name. Spell your last. B L A K E. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you'll give this evening before this board be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. The pictures that are taken that are being marked 01 through 07 or 8, did you take the ones that are being indicated? Yes, I did. And do they accurately represent the property at the time you took them? Yes.

Okay. Best thing to do would be to explain to the board what those pictures represent, why you believe they're relevant. We have concerns about um the parking spots. Parking spots have always been a big um contender of our worrying because it floats into like I said onto our street. So um this first picture marked as exhibit one. There's parking here. There's the employee parking plus there's like a what is it? The steel container back there. No wheels, just parking.

Yeah, just that. Then there's the um pizza thing that you take to like pumpkin bag. That's all for kings and sons. So where are they going to park that? Here is a better picture of what others thing from there. It sits back there 90% of the time unless they're not there. Then this is the empty lot. This is the way people park. We just were taking pictures to they're just going across the street just to prove the story of the box trucks. This is how big some of them are. And we and on this one is the telephone pole that we've been talking about and all the electricity poles that come out of it. You'll see it's quite a bit.

This one This is Yes. Okay. Yeah. Uh drop off or delivery um parked out front. That's exhibit for exhibit five. And know they talked about no um landscaping thing, but if they're going to do landscaping, there's the trailer and the parking that's out into the like where you drive through and get around. Y then it's just the way they all park. I mean, exhibit, you know, Yeah.

exhibit seven has a combo um right on the of the landscaping. Um the beer I think it's a that was a beer trucker. Beer truck beer truck in the along the wall closer to the property. And then there's a a trailer for things. They all go to Kings and Suns for lunch. And then that's just more parking in the back, you know. It's just where it's just something hand them actually hand them to the board secretary and then board. Thank you. All right. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your listening and um Oh, no. No. I think they may want to respond and I was just indicating. No, no, no. You're good. I will if you want.

Unless you want to unless you have questions for us. If you do, then No, no, no. Uh may I? Yes, sure. Okay. Uh they they mentioned the this is just response. This is just response to the statements in the photos. I don't have the exhibit numbers in front of me. Uh several of the exhibits showed a container and what looked like some kind of pizza food truck. Um as we previously testified, those things will be taken away. I believe that question was already asked. Uh, with regards to the illegal parking, I believe the engineer testified on that specific matter wherein a landscape truck were to park in one of the spots, it would then be blocking the flow uh and we would be able to tow that vehicle presuming that we met the I believe it was title 39 uh regulation with the town. Okay.

So, I just wanted to clarify that for the board that those things were addressed and will be addressed by the applicant. Thank you. Anyone else from the public here to make any statements? Sorry we have to make you come up twice, but there's a certain procedure we have to follow. Stay standing. You can you can see please raise your right hand. State your name. Spell your last. Uh Frank. Spell it please.

S N I E Z E K. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you'll give this evening before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. Absolutely. Thank you. [Music]

It's been 40 42 years since I we bought the home. And at that time at the time of the closing they told us there was a this encroachment for foot encroachment. And when they when they told us that at the last minute we went ahead my wife and I went ahead and did it. So if there's any I don't want people thinking well you you did it you didn't care. But that that was the circumstance that Mr. Mr. I I when you say a 4 foot encroachment, they don't know what part of your property, where, who, what. I think that's the question. I'm not sure that anybody knows what exactly.

I don't. No, that's why I brought these pictures. Yes, please. Thank you. Are those copies that can stay with the board? Yes. Okay. You can you can sit. Someone will get them for you, but explain what they are. Just when you say I'd rather give them to you because pictures with the Watch the wires. Are those Excuse me. The pictures that you gave, are they all the exact same thing? Yeah. Okay. Sorry. What block and lot is this? I don't see it on it. Look, this looks to be a survey, but I'm just not sure what block and lock. He's right. Oh, no. This is not all the same. No, it's not. There's a lot of different sheets except for

Wait a second. Before this happens, the just the survey, we need to mark this that's being considered. Yeah. How many are been marked so far? That was exhibit eight. So, this 09 can I just let me I'm looking at what is going to be marked 09. This is all part of it. Okay. And it is a appears to be a survey done by for Frank Snezzac uh and Carol Anne Sneezac um dated January 20th 1983 um this and it shows Hatterbike and Aquatic Avenue

does not have a block and bottom but that's the sheet I think you're going to need to explain it's the same I just want to make sure that what I have I think so Okay. So, you're going to have to explain. I don't mean to jump in. What What do you mean encroachment? Who's encroaching on that? And I don't mean to be, but the driveway is when they

when they put the driveway down. That was a that was a vacant property the next door where they're going to use parking now. And uh well maybe what they did they they ran out of room I guess they didn't have enough room uh to accommodate 10 ft for a driveway and that's why and since it was an empty lot didn't ex uh to to that was allowed I mean I don't know I wasn't there when when again I have I do not know what you're saying. Let me guess. Are you saying that the driveway my driveway your driveway? Oh yeah, my driveway is on your property or is on their property?

On their property. On their property. This is they we signed off on it because they they said their uh I forget who said it at that meeting for the closing. They they said u Oh, that's okay. Don't worry about it. At that time, the owner of Well, I I I Yeah, maybe maybe this will help if um if your engineer is able to look at that survey. I don't know if there's any way to maybe we can't tonight but determine whether

show on the on this survey the plans that you are presenting to do it shows it on the existing conditions will will they take apart take 4T of the driveway that he's been using that appears that he believes to be overlap is that part of this board's decision they ought to know it's not the decision they can't give permission to do it but he He think he's saying he has a driveway that he uses that's on their property and if in fact that's true when this gets built is he going to have a driveway that's 4T narrow that's I just want at least that's it

for the board to know and I didn't talk we're trying to keep a clean trying to keep a clean record one person at a time you can always come I think that's the issue we have that I'm just assisting get this on the record record's going to reflect that everybody's looking at the survey while the entire entire entire Can we get a copy down it's 4T over I think uh his property driver

shows but that's the way I bought it I put that driveway down. It shows that line that's on that survey. That's why in 1983 dates I I didn't do it because the house, but I I don't think so there is recorded or dedication or anything recorded for this. No, there's as far as I'm aware there's nothing of record related to it. So, it's his encroachment onto our property, which Okay. So, I'm going to ask the question that seems to be kind of hanging out there

because it shows on your plant C02, the line that he's pointing out in this, what is your intention to do with his driveway for those four feet? Uh, we we have our existing I mean, we have our parking uh spaces going in there. So, so your intention is has to be removed. Yes. You're saying that you're going to remove four feet of his driveway. That's that's not going to be Please, please, let's got we have to you have to listen to people. You can finish answering the question. Yeah. Again, based on our plans like that is going to be utilized for the proposed parking that we are proposing there and there's no record easement or anything.

That's argument. We just want to know what's being done. There's plenty of time for argument. Okay. If the chairman wouldn't mind, can I have a 5minut break just to review this if this is good information for me? If you don't mind. 5 minutes is fine. Let's keep it short.

Okay. So where we are right now is we're discussing the application or not the application the easement that uh Mr. Steak showed the use. The use I don't want is a technical term. Thank you. Use the use. Um so I did have a little bit of time to review. Um this does not have any bearing on the approval at hand. Uh this body cannot judge the validity of this. You know whether it is an approach or not. They do not have the power to do so. So it should not have any excuse me should not have any bearing on the approval of the night. Right now my driveway stays intact. Can I Mr. Although that's the hearing your official opinion.

There's a bunch of issues that let me let me see if I can lay out the issues quickly and explain why generally this is not something the board would be able to decide. The issue is when there is um a confusion or dispute about who owns or controls a piece of property, the there's a principle of law called adverse possession. If one property owner um owns 100 square feet, but there's a piece of property next to another 100 square feet, and that person for 21 years or more openly and adversely possesses, which essentially is tell the entire world that's mine, it's not yours, and I know it's mine, it's not yours. Despite the fact that person is wrong, there's a principle law that if you go to court and you prove it to a judge and a jury, then in fact that you would then own the property. But that that requires a judge and a jury to decide that because there's a factual dispute. If and were you uh were you an adverse and open possession of that property for the longest time, this board is there's no jurisdiction for them to make that decision. Um if you if it very well might be that if you go to court, the judge would say no, they can't build this because you've owned it and by adverse possession. But that's not something this board can do. this board can only look at property lines as they're drawn. I wish they had that ability, but they don't. If they if they voted on that this basis and denied it because of that, the judge would overturn that decision in a heartbeat because they don't have the power to do it. So that's my issue. You very well may have a very good case,

but it can't be done here. It's been like that for and that's the point. That's the judge that has to decide it. If in fact they did it, there's no way it would stand because they don't have that power. Well, then that means I have to get a lawyer and a real estate lawyer. I wish that that was not the I wish that that was not the case, but I'd have to give this board the advice. My only recourse. I have to give this board the advice on what they can and can't do, and that's not something that a court would uphold. Well, that's what I came here for. I know it wasn't going to be uh taken taken lightly, but Well, I appreciate hoping that you guys had the uh they don't have the authority. All right. But you know, you you put them on notice and the property owner knows and that maybe

Have you ever heard of this kind of a situation? It's called adverse possession. It's been happening for the last 400 years in our jurist prudence. It happens. Yes, it it is a it is a well-known legal principle, but it is something that a judge and a jury must decide. They would have to hear evidence on how long it was, how long you had it. Did you tell the world no, they can't use it? Did you There's a there's a bunch of different things that go into it. This board simply can't do that. When my wife and I bought this house and they threw that at us on the closing that there was an encroachment, I knew it was going to be trouble, but it took 42 years to uh that come to fruition. Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Does anyone else have a um statement to make? All right. Seeing none, I'm going to close the public se Oh, sorry. I'm going to close the public session and we are now with a complete application from the public. Um I will look for statements from you and then we'll board will discuss uh and decide. Okay. At this time I would move to have applicants exhibit A1 the renderings that you all saw tonight moved into evidence.

Okay. Uh I will keep this brief because we have taken up enough of the board's time. Um, as evidenced through the testimony you've heard today, uh, the proposed work consists of an addition of two stories onto the pre-existing singlestory commercial building uh, to provide for eight residential units. To complete the proposed project, the applicant is seeking several variances for the project and such variances are supported by the testimony you heard today. Can I jump in?

Yep. Before you finish, decide exactly what the height variance for the fence is being requested because you can't request a height variance. You have to have height bearings for 6 and 1/2 ft, 9 ft, 12 ft. It has to be something that you're granting and that's if they're if they grant it, but you have to ask for something specific. So, put that on the record. You may want to consult while they're doing I got a question for the attorney. Can they go? Can this board us go higher than the the ordinance and that? Yeah. Yeah, that would not be. Yeah, that's a that would be a bulk variance like the parking space. So, we can go say it's 8 ft high if they wanted.

Yes, they can. You can you can grant a Yeah, that often we've had them on the corner lots with you know, you can't be more than three or four feet. You've given them given up to five. Yes, you're allowed to give height be clearances on fences. Mr. chairman. Uh I did look up the requirements for fences in a non-residential zone. You're allowed up to 8 ft. If it's an open like a chain link tech fence, if it's solid, it's allowed six feet. The fence itself 6 ft. Correct. Total height. If it is total, so if it's a three-ft retaining wall, you can have a three-ft fence on top of it. Permit. Yes. Okay. Okay. Back to you. Okay. Thank you so much. Uh do you want me to start from the top or

go ahead continue?

Okay. Uh so as indicated by Mr. Brewer, uh in addition to the variances we are we have already requested, we would also seek to request a variance related to the fence uh in which we would request 8 ft in total with the wall included uh as the engineer testified to. So it would be 8 ft in total height. I believe the wall is about two two and 1/2 ft. So would be expense on top of it for a total of eight weeks. Um the applicant has worked incredibly hard on this application and is taking into account all the comments received from the board uh and the public as evidenced by you know the additional fence requests after further discussion with the board here tonight. Um you know Ms. Adams mentioned something very interesting. She called her neighborhood a beautiful little neighborhood. Uh, and I really like the way she put that through this project, the applicant wants to enhance this neighborhood and keep it a beautiful little neighborhood. They want to make it better. So, I thank the board for their time and consideration on this matter and I hope that the board votes to approve this application.

Okay. Thank you. Okay. So we have to discuss the application as it's been presented with modifications with variances and I'll start off with some comments but I'm going to ask each member to comment as they see fit. Um, a lot's been done since June and and I want to thank the applicant for taking the time to go through the process of revising the application of what we see tonight. Uh, it's substantially improved in several areas.

There's a couple of unique things that that peered from this application, but not something that we can't make a decision on. I don't find the variances to be extreme in any fashion. Um the variances that were requested are I don't want to call them dimminimous, but they're not really any major um major variations from the zoning. So that doesn't bother me. Um the appearance of the building is is good. The site itself looks good and it's a distinct improvement. The only thing that concerns me is the uh the vision down from the balconies towards the residence. I I think that's a legitimate concern. Um, I will ask this question and and you can tell me whether or not you want to even pursue it. But the the question would be is are the balconies something that would be nice to have or are they absolutely necessary for this applicant to do the project? They obviously closed the door 20

or a French balcony either one you know

so I have consulted with the applicant and uh his his architect we are fine with doing something like a French balcony uh if that would be a condition that should Well, again, this is from my perspective. It's the board's decision, but the variances are not a problem that to me. The building is not a problem to me. It's certainly doable based on master planning, but I do think privacy is important and that that one item alone, we've helped it by adding the fence a little higher. We made sure that the lighting is not going to be blown on the other side of the property line. Um, if we can eliminate the the balconies where that'll also eliminate some of the outside concerns for smoking and noise. French balcony for those that don't know is basically like a false balcony. It looks nice but it doesn't allow someone to stand outside the building. Am I correct Mr. Beth?

Yes. So, so basically it would still look fine but it just wouldn't provide an outside uh location. With that said and with the understanding that we just got from the applicant, I would be in favor of the application and I would like to hear all of your uh comments regarding So, who wants to go first? John. Okay. All right. So, I have concerns. Plenty plenty of concerns. Tap the switch. Not that concern, but um let me start fire department access. You removed the north stairwell, the second stairwell. Correct. Okay.

So now the only access is in the rear. I did make a comment at our last June meeting that I I'm not concerned about apparatus going into the rear because I can get a hand line. Say if there was an incident on the second or third floor, I can access that north stairwell. Now I can't. So now the truck has to go around the back. I heard that it's not required because it's only three story for the uh uh standpipe system. So now that kind of leaves me I have to put a truck back there in order to get hand length to the second third floor. So that's my concern. That's number one on the safety. Number two is the ladder truck talked about turning radius but then again I didn't get a full answer on the power lines. I heard something's getting moved. Something might not be moved. If I did have to get access with the tower ladder to there, I'm afraid I might not be able to. So, and that kind of limits the and that's kind of my safety concerns there. Uh, number two, the planning board. This is called the gateway district. So, the gateway, when you read the burrow ordinance, it says intended to offer a transition. So we're transitioning from the Wayne side which is more commercial of the CVS and a car dealership and then it's supposed to transition into the residential. So once you get beyond pukonic it's all residential. To me putting that building there kind of as the planner said is going to put more um residential on top of the commercial. So now you got this building and you're not transitioning. you got everything's kind of low story and then it goes into residential. So my concern is again from the master plan this intent was supposed to be a transition and that's going to uh change that. Um it also says communityoriented

commercial and retail uses. Now again I'm picking the words because right after that it does say professional uses and where appropriate multifamily residential. So, I don't want to spin on it, but community oriented commercial are encouraged in this area. I don't see encouragement to the two tenants that are there. Now, I know the third tenant obviously is the owner of the building, but for the pharmacy, you just blocked off his front entrance. The pizza restaurant is now blocked off in the front, blocked off in the rear. How's he going to get his access? And I just heard from pictures that his um food truck might be removed. I don't know if we asked the if the tenant was here right now. We asked him, "Hey, how do you feel about that?" He perfectly fine. I disagree. So I'm thinking from the master plan, I don't think that was the intent. Um the last part is and again I use Puquanagav coming from Ramipo over to Hamburg turnpike and it is very congested there. I now know why because there are other uh say the residents across the street are parking there and again we are not again we don't know who's going to be renting there and we could say yeah two parking spots that's enough for each place that has not really been proven in the fact and even just recently this board approved five parking spots for another place three blocks away I'm very I'm disappointed that in our master plan when it says consider use of Burrow's DPW, it wasn't brought up here. That to me would be a nice you could uh build a very nice walkway down and have plenty of parking spots down there depending on what the plan is for down there. But I'm just saying it could have been

considered. So, um, so with that, I'm not in favor of this applicant, and that's where I probably need it. Thank you. Anyone else care to comment? [Music] Sure, Mike.

I like the presentation. I think it's a good job. I I think what we're looking to do is make buildings that'll look a little worn down, look better, and that includes putting some residential on top. I don't I have no issue with that. I disagree with some of the things that were brought up just now in the fact that the gateway is the gateway entrance into our town which we want to make look good coming into our town. We don't want it to look good. However that works to make it look good is what they what the word gateway is. Um aquatic is a beautiful street. You know, it's one of the nicest streets in town. Um we do have ordinances in our town right now that allows anyone to park on any street at any time. We can't isolate one street and say we don't want parking on that street because once we change that, we're changing the whole dynamic of what we do in our town. Every town, every street is going to say I don't want parking on my street. Okay? It's first come, first serve. It's the way we've been. It's the way it will always been. So, I have no problem with the project. It's upgrading a building that's not looking so good right now. It has plenty of parking. Redevelop the projects that we're using. We're using 1.5 as our number, not two. We're using two here which is higher that we're requiring on the bigger buildings that we're building living in town. And I think the planner mentioned and other people mentioned right now this is the future of New Jersey. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, this is what's being built in New Jersey right now. We're not building homes. There's no space to build these homes. We're building apartments. If we want people to grow and live in this community, we got to provide space for them to do that. So, I support the budget.

Thank you. Anyone else comments? Mr. Bulby. Um, John made some very good points, a couple of which I was going to touch on, but I um he did better job of it than I could. I have some concerns about the balcony. Um [Music] um there when people who live upon avenue moved in there, the balcon that was not an issue. It is now an issue. Privacy is very important. Parking also concerns me. Um especially uh we've seen evidence that there would be uh trucks, bigger trucks than maybe what was described, beer trucks, uh tractor trailers. Um and the customer parking is also a concern. And I have long held that let me back up a second and I grew up out in the country and it always amazed me that someone would buy a house next to a farm and then complain about the smell. Well, my position has always been that if you were there before it, you got a right to complain. And that's what I feel is is uh the situation here. These folks were here before this pro this uh project was ever envisioned. So, um I am not in favor of the application. [Music]

Others? Well, I have comment, but I guess I'm not allowed to make a decision based on stuff that we heard here tonight. So, um I do not like the fact that somebody may be forced to narrow their driveway by 4T to a driveway that's going to virtually be useless after 42 years living in a home. His driveway is going to be rendered virtually useless. Um, you know, I hope it does go to court and I hope he does win if this project does go through. Um, one suggestion or comment that I do have if the project is approved is the sign location, the sign that everybody seen the the freestanding sign. Um, again, we're talking about two pieces of property that are both retail spaces that butt up against each other. Why don't we take that sign and move it from all the way over on the right and put it on the property line between the two pieces of property, which will create more of a barrier to also discourage people from driving through from the bagel store onto this property. Um, it'll be tucked all the way over to the side. It'll it'll alleviate any problems with lights at night and it'll tuck it off out of the way. So

just to comment on it, that is certainly something the applicant is willing to explore. Just a suggestion. Okay. Any other questions? Don't know if the project will get that forward, but we'll see.

Just one comment. I I would ask the applicant going forward with any variations in any part of the process to just act in good faith. uh when it comes to being a neighbor, uh the fence, any lighting, just be honest and and give them a chance to be heard. [Music] All right. Some question about the um access for that 4T and the fact that it would go to court possibly or not. But um the board should vote independent of that. It it should be based on the application.

It is my opinion that you don't have the jurisdiction to take into consideration a dispute about ownership of a property that's not somewhere in writing right there. Adverse possession which what was described at least falls into that category as impossible. Mr. Act may own that property via adverse possession. He may not. That's not something that this board has the authority to decide. So, so what I'm saying is we need we need to kind of ignore that issue. It's my opinion that that that cannot be a basis for your decision. It would be subject to being reversed if they challenge it. That's my opinion to you.

Thank you for very well win that in court. That's not something that you would be able to make the decision on. So, and I agree with what you're saying and if it did go to court, which seems like it should. Um, what happens to that project? It stopped. It freezes until court.

The the um it's probably like anything else. It's a challenge that they would have a risk that they are building on a property that is ultimately determined not to be theirs. They'd have to tear it down. They wouldn't have the parking spaces. They would never be able to get a CEO if that happened. Typically, that doesn't happen automatically. Typically the if they're about to tear up the pavement may and the judge thought that there was a good case and I'm winging it here. A judge a judge might say no I'm going to put a temporary restraining order until we figure this out. I don't know that to be the case. That's something that could happen. I'm not saying that that is a likelihood at all. But if if the facts bore that out, that's a possibility. I don't know. I don't know how how likely any of that is. That those things are possible. But that's a that's for court to decide. All those things I'm saying, you know, those various ways, that's why this board shouldn't be doing it. That's for a judge and a jury to decide.

Uh there's another question for you, too. I want to make sure that whatever decision this board makes needs to be supported by the facts and the requirements of the land use law as it applies to our board. So, for example, the parking variance um that they're looking for, some people have suggested that it should be higher than two spaces. Some people said, well, it may not be good for trucks that park there. I don't believe we should be considering that because it's beyond the scope of what's required. So, for example, if we grant the variance for parking, it's because of we feel that they're not going to use as many spaces as might be required. That's something that we can do. But to say that we can't approve it because a landscaping truck may pull up and take up five spots is not something in my opinion that we should consider.

Potentially legally illegal parking is not something you should consider. If you don't, it is a consideration on whether or not there's sufficient area to load and unload deliveries that will go there. Yes. But but illegal parking and improper parking, no, that is not something and the same thing with the number of spaces. They can't control they can't control someone coming in and parking illegal. They simply can't do that. So you can't

you would not be able to deny this by saying somebody may be coming in illegally parking on your property. That that wouldn't be fair. So, what I'm trying to do is is narrow down some of the objections to see I want to make sure that whatever we vote on is is correct for us to be voting on. And I don't believe the issue of well there could be a big truck as a pro is a proper issue for us to vote on. Illegal parking is not something that you should deliveries or something can but illegal parking no because that can happen and they can't control it. And that that happens all over by the way. So um did anyone did you have a question or

I was I was simply going to make the comment that based on the master plan based on uh what has been said about the way that we define a gateway the purposes of uh this district and then also based on what both the the chairman and Mr. Brewer, you have said uh even though I am an alternate, it seems to me as if uh what we are allowed to vote on leads us in the direction of uh approving this project and that the variances have been you know uh addressed and you know within reason. I I just wanted to say that I agree with those appreciate it.

Mr. Chairman, if I may, I just wanted to address one point that you Mr. Keading had made regarding the standpipe. I believe there actually was testimony from the architect indicating that we would be willing to put one in to address that concern that you had and to work with the fire department and I would ask you know the board were to grant us an approval. That would be you know part of resolution compliance working with the uh fire department and we etc as needed. I just want to make sure that your concern was addressed. Thank you. Of course. I think uh the applicant's addressed what he can. I think he's done a good job of removing some of the u what I would consider obstacles. So, um, unless there's other comments, uh, we can take a roll call vote.

I want to make sure on the vote we have nine nine member board only. So, we can only have n only be nine people voting. Anybody that was not So, we have to go full membership and I think one of the members was not here. So, we'd go to an alternate the first alternate cuz we No, just Bill. Yeah, cuz you only people that were here. The alternates if you were here last time, the one alternate can fill in for nine votes. Were you here for the Were either one of you here for the June meeting? June meeting. Okay. So, we would have ultimate one plus ultimate one. You got Okay. Now, yeah. I need a motion.

Okay. So, I need a motion and um any one of you can make the motion. If you don't want to, I'll make it. Just as long as we get a motion out one way or the other. I'll make a motion that we approve the application with all of the conditions and changes that were discussed tonight which the attorney will have in his uh resolution. Second. Anybody? Second. Second. Okay. Uh, I want a roll call vote on this, please. Any other discussion before we vote? That was on the second. Um, yes.

One, two, three. Any uh questions on the motion before we go to a vote? And let's call a roll. Mr. Simone. Mr. Simone. Yes. Mr. Otto, no. Mr. Trost, no. Uh, Dr. Pres, uh, Dr. Penduxer is not. So, let's just Okay. Mr. Baldby, no. Mr. Keading, no. Mayor Sarah, yes. Councilman Quinn, yes. And Mr. BSMA, yes.

And Mr. Foster because you have 39 votes. And Mr. Foster, he doesn't vote. He doesn't vote. He wasn't here. How many votes? Oh, you need nine votes, right? What' you get? Five, six. You got nine. You got only eight. Yeah, there was eight. There's only eight valid me. No, Dr. Zer wasn't here for the last meeting. There's seven up there. Me, eight, and one of them. None. But we've only had eight people. Bill wasn't here. So there should be six people on the dis voting. The mayor seven was here. I didn't think I had enough. No. No. We need nine votes.

Right. So Mr. Okay. Okay. Yes. You were here on He said he thinks he was here. He was here. The only person that wasn't here was Dr. Fandexer. Okay. Mr. Foster. Yes. Thank you. Okay. So does five yeses, four nos. Do we have writing? Yes. No. Yes. [Music] And that we don't need more than five yeses. And we don't need more than five for this. N you cars. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Well, thank you. Um, thank you very much for your time. Appreciate it. Good luck with the project.

Thank you so much. Can I just ask, how do I know if my fence is going to be high enough? High enough for what? That's part of what you guys put into. It's going to be 8 ft. What they've been approved for is there might be a problem with parking or that other stuff. But right now, they can only build something with an 8ft fan. Total height of 8 foot.

Yeah. You sure? Thank you. All right. So, we have make the announcement on the second week. I'm sorry. I'll announce on the second you open it. Well, is he going to comment at all or is he Oh, he's there. He's there. Forward. Yeah. We have to keep going, guys. Get another two hours worth of meeting. That was motion approved.

Yes. Motion approved. 54. Okay. The next item on the agenda is PB2504, Washington Urban Renewal LLC, 125 Wariku Avenue, Pmpton Lakes, block 3101, lot 401, zone DR A1. And Mr. Belt is here. Mr. Beltree is here. Okay. Good evening. Uh, my name is Steven Belt. I'm an attorney. I represent the applicant. My understanding is that um because of the lateness um all the witnesses have gone but this application has been open it will be continued to the September the October meeting. Uh no further notice will be required or provided.

Very good. Thank you. See you in October. Sounds good. Thank you. [Applause] Okay. Then we have no resolutions, no conceptual. There's a new unfinished business item board to discuss a recommendation to the council for a change in an ordinance regarding correspondence from township of Wayne dated April 17 on ordinance 26-2025 and 27-2025. I have no idea what that is.

Mr. Keing had noticed that Wayne had new ordinances. I think they were sent around a few months ago. Since I forgot them, other people may have forgot them. It might be best to make sure everybody gets copies tomorrow in the mail and then be discussed next month. Next month that would be my carry to next month. This was a continuation that we were supposed to continue. No meeting. Continue. Continue. So that was left off on the So he still has concerns. He'd like this to be brought up um to the governing body. So that's what the concern This was taking about pictures, John. Yes. Yes. Yeah. According to the Wayne ordinance. So I have everything here, but we will continue that. Yeah. if you want to discuss it yet. I I thought No, that's we talked about it last time. So, I'm

Okay, that's fine. We can we can we can move it on to that and then um move it on to the next meeting. Yep. That's fine. And with that, unless somebody has anything else, we can do a um public discussion. Anyone from the public wish to be heard on anything? Seeing none, uh lasting item on the agenda is a German. You don't want to say anything? Make a motion to adjourn. Second. Second. Okay, hold on. Motion in a second. All in favor. So you got to hold on here. Motion to adjurnn. Motion approved by two motions and the second

me Patrick at the same time. [Laughter] Yep. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All in favor? I. Any opposed? stuff. Nobody postes it. I don't understand. Thank you all