Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Oh yeah. What did you buy? You almost Yeah.

The Plymouth Township Planning Commission meeting will come to order at 6:30. And if the secretary will please call roll. All right. Dennis Sabolski here. Tim Boyd here. Bob Dorchitz here. Steuart Pop here. Dan Callahan here. Dave Lawway here. Bills may may show up late. Okay. Bill's not here right now. Okay. And we have the approval of this evening's agenda and we've gotten notice that the uh mic on we can't hear you.

Oh. All right. We're up to the approval of the agenda and we've gotten notice that uh um the the Chevy Corvette La Fontaine people are being asked to be postponed. We'll get to that. So uh whatever discussion we have will be brief on that one. So with that uh modification, is there a motion to approve the agenda? Uh Mr. Chair, I move we approve the agenda as amended. Second. Second. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to approve the agenda. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I.

Opposed. Motion carries. And is there a motion to approve the minutes of November 19th? Mr. Chairman, I propose that we um approve the minutes from the meeting on November the 19th. Is there support? Support. Moved by Commissioner Pop and supported by Commissioner Boy to approve the minutes as submitted. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. Um, now we're open to public comments for any non-aggenda item. So, is there anyone here that wishes to speak to a non-aggenda item? The mics must have been on. Are the mics on? Can you tell?

They're on. Okay. It's just quiet. Okay. All right. Moving on to uh application 2558, the 13101 Hagerty Road conditional resoning and planners has the report.

Thank you, Chairman Sabolski. Good evening, planning commissioners. Laura Ha with McKenna. Um this application is one that the planning commission has reviewed um and discussed twice now. Tonight will be the third public hearing for this agenda item. Uh the request is to conditionally reszone 13101 Hagerty Road. This is the um uh northwest corner of Plymouth and Hagerty roads. The subject site is approximately 15 acres in size. It abuts lock performance to the north um and residential to the immediate west. Uh currently the property is zoned the C2 general commercial district. The applicant is requesting a conditional resoning to the uh IND industrial district. The process for tonight is to uh conduct the uh third public hearing and then procedurally the planning commission has three options. uh recommendation of approval to the board of trustees, recommendation of denial, or uh to postpone this agenda item as a resoning map amendment request. The board of trustees has the final authority uh as a legislative body. We have discussed this project before and our review is largely the same as it was uh for the first time. We are not recommending approval of this um tonight. Um [snorts] our findings of fact are listed on page eight and there's five important findings there. Uh the first is that the resoning we find does not align with the intent of the zoning ordinance. Um the applicant even though it's a conditional

resoning has not uh in writing limited the uses on this property. So that means effectually that all of the uses that are listed as either permitted or special on page three of our report could be potential uses in the future. Um so this is not ensure that the property would be used for light industrial or research purposes and we cannot recommend that um for for the township. Um the second is that the resoning does not sufficiently align with the goals of the master plan to provide a transitional um character between the surrounding uses. perhaps if the uses were more limited. Um however as presented they are not. Uh and we cannot um we cannot find that that is a transitional um land use. Um the third is that the applicant um is is proposing uh a very industrial building appearance. This isn't a site plan, but the rendering that they have provided um is very similar to the industrial building facads that we see along five mile or in some of the established industrial parks and does not match the character of lock or burrows at that intersection. Additionally with the courthouse, um the fourth finding is that they while they present um landscaping uh it is not beyond what is required by the zoning ordinance. So there's no inherent benefit um with the landscaping proposal. Um and last uh finding is that the township retains the responsibility to ensure compatible land uses and the protection of adjacent residential and public uses which we find um as presented would violate that. So recommendation tonight is to recommend [snorts] denial to the board of trustees

based on those findings. Um but as the third public hearing the next step would be to open and close that. We have not received any written communication um on this item. So is the applicant here? [snorts] Okay. So no applicant. Um does anyone have any uh comments before I open up the public hearing? Okay. Uh is there a motion to open the public hearing at 6:36? Uh, Mr. Chair, I move we open the public hearing on project number 2558 13101 Hagerty Road at 658 or 6386.

Yeah. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to open the public hearing. Is there anyone here that wishes to speak to this item? [snorts] Okay. Hearing none, then is there a motion to close the public hearing at 6:37? Mr. Mr. Chair, I move we close the public hearing at 6:37. Second. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to close the public hearing. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Opposed.

Okay. Motion passes. Uh there's no further discussion. Is there a um motion to deny this uh application um and providing the statement of facts as contained in the planners report?

Mr. Chair, I recommend that the um planning commission um recommend denial to the board of trustees for conditional reasonzoning to industrial district at 13101 Hagerty Road PC number 2558 for the reason stated on page 8, findings of fact on the planners report. Is there support? Second. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Dorsch to [clears throat] recommend denial for application 2558 subject to set conditions. All in favor signify by saying I. I.

Opposed. Motion carries. [snorts] Okay. Next is application 2582, hidden enclave, the cluster housing option review. And uh Miss Hart, your report.

Thank you, Chair Sagolski. Good evening, commissioners. Liz Hart with McKenna. Um, the applicant is requesting an approval of a cluster housing option located off of Powell Road on a vacant parcel near Napier Road, Napier Powell Road intersection. Um, during our preliminary review, planning and engineering did identify several items that need to be addressed before final determination. So tonight we're recommending you hold a public hearing and then postpone for one year. Um so the first step in a single family housing cluster housing development is for the applicant to apply for a cluster housing option [clears throat and snorts] review which precedes any formal site plan review. So this before you tonight is a consideration of the subject site uh if it's approp if it's in an appropriate location for a cluster housing development. And the items that we uh came across um they may affect the site design and lot configuration and even compliance with the cluster housing option standards. And we listed a few of them. The key issues was the culde-sac needed to be enlarged. Uh right now it's at 84t diameter. It needs to be 96. And then um the future Powell Road right away must be accommodated for. Right now the site plan shows it at 120 ft and with discussions with engineering it actually is 86 ft. Um and that's probably going to be dedic required to be dedicated by Wayne County which in that case we want to see the setbacks from that future rightway which is definitely going to impact that landscaping up front and setbacks to the house as well. So, um, and then additional revisions are needed like open space calculation, natural feature preservation options. I think there's 20 trees on site right now.

They're not proposing to preserve any of them. Um, and then housing layout considerations and parking circulation. So, we're recommending again you hold the public hearing and then postpone up to a year. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Any engineering report? Good evening, commissioners. Uh, Lisa meet with phone. Um, we uh received the Can you hear me? Excuse me. Is your mic on? It is. Oh, can you hear me? No. It's hard to hear you. You're going to have to have it closer to you. Better. Oh, bet. Much better. Much better.

Okay. Sometimes I speak too close and I think it's worse, but okay. This is good. Uh, good evening, commissioners. U Lisa with Sping the Decor. Um as mentioned by the planners and list um we uh are not going to recommend approval of the cluster housing development and the main reasons are going to be the was mentioned by the planner. Um the rightway dedication needs to be taking place and right now it's showing us uh 120 I believe um road but for research of the wing county website it seems like it should be 86. So that will need to be coordinated with Wayne County Road Commission. Um another item is that um the drive approach needs to also be approved by Wayne County. Uh we believe that the the the radius needs to be increased to meet the county standards. Uh right now it's only appears to be 5T radius. Um as well as mentioned by the planner um the radius of the culdeac needs to be increased to meet the township private road ordinance. Um the site overall does meet uh does have availability of existing utilities. So they that is really not an issue on our end and they are proposing um retention basin on the southeast of the site with a pumped emergency outlet to the ditch along the power road uh rightway. Uh the preliminary calculations uh were provided and it appears that it will meet the county standards but this is something that um the county will have final authority and they will have to um provide approval. Um for these reasons we are not approving this closer housing this time as the layout of the site will

definitely be impacted up. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. And we received a report from the fire department where there are a number of deficiencies and they must be corrected before any plan can be approved by them. So is the applicant here? Yes. Do you have a presentation or a comment or anything? Um if you come up to the podium, give us your name. Hello, my name is Brian Visker. I'm from the UML group. Um, and uh we we we weren't prep prepared for a presentation, but uh um I I would I we've heard some of the deficiencies of the plan and we're going to work on them. Uh the 86 uh foot wide rightway. Did I hear that properly? Yeah.

80 86. So 10 and No, it's 43. So half Yes. Okay. There we go. Um to take a look at that and we're going to redo the plan and bring come back in front of you. Okay. [clears throat] Okay. Well, you know, we'll be looking at some of those same issues that have been raised in the planners report, preservation of natural resources. Um, so read the report, meet with them, and Okay, I'll open the public hearing at uh 6:45. If is there anyone here that wishes to speak to this issue? Yeah, if you come up and just uh come up to

Oh, I'm sorry. The motion is there. Come on up. You can come up because you have to sign it. Is there a motion to open the public hearing [snorts] at 6:45? Yes, Mr. Mr. Chair, I move we open the public hearing on PC number 2582 Hidden Enclave at 6:45. Is there a second? Moved by Commissioner Boyd, supported by Commissioner Pop to open the public hearing 6:45. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed? Motion carries.

Okay. Go ahead.

All right. Uh I live in uh the country co village of Plymouth which is just south of the property then in question here and uh there is a burm that goes up from my backyard up to this property and my my my so my main concern is with the rain runoff uh poss possibility and I've read their proposal and they have talk about infiltrate infiltration of the land and the backup basin and m uh emergency some pumps that have already been mentioned but one cons and some of my concerns have already been addressed by the other people but one thing that my question is if these uh emergency pumps are powered by electricity is my assumption If we have a major storm rain event that is so powerful that it's going to fill up this B basin, then it most likely will all very also uh turn uh had the power off by that point. And so at the time when these emergency pumps are really needed, they won't run because there's no power. And so that was my concern because this retention basin that they're talking about like they say is on the southeast part of the land which is the closest to my house. though that if that overflows for whatever reason, you know, I mean, the plan that they have sounds good on paper of the infiltration, the basin and the pumps, but if something goes wrong, then the overflow of the water most

likely will come cascading down that burm into my backyard and possibly my house. So, I just wanted to express that concern about the these emergency pumps not working when they really needed because the storm knocked power out. Okay. Thank you. Is this where the burm is right here? Yes. Yes. Among the And my my house where I live is right where your arrow is. That house right there. That's where I live. And so and and like I said, it's the southeast corner where they're going to put that basin. And you you don't you don't see it on that map, but that burm has a pretty steep grade. Yeah. Coming down.

Steep grade. So if the water starts coming down, they'll be coming down pretty a pretty good clip. 16 ft grade paper. Yeah. Well, we'll, you know, they'll be back. Uh they have a year uh if they do come back. And so I'm sure we'll have another public hearing at that point as well. But we'll make a note of it. I'll ask the engineer uh to make a note of it. they may already have that on their on their uh punch list to look at when they review these kinds of things. Appreciate you coming and expressing that concern. It was a good one. Okay. If there's another public hearing in a year, I'll be back. Okay. Good. We'll see you then. Good. We'll see you then. Anyone else?

Okay. If we can close a motion to close the public hearing at 6:49. Mr. Chair, I move we close the public hearing at 6:49 p.m. Second. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to close the public hearing. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. And if for the minutes we'll show that Commissioner I came in at 6:46. Thank you. So [snorts] we need a motion to postpone for up to a year. Is there such a motion? Um, I wanted to Oh, you have my comments.

Okay, I have a couple comments. Um, Laura, this is a cluster housing option and if my memory is correct, which is questionable these days, um, to approve a public to approve approve a cluster housing option, there needs to be some kind of community benefit. Isn't that right? And I'm as I look at this proposal, sir, sir, excuse me. We Okay. Yeah. Thanks. We couldn't hear you.

Um, when we look at a cluster housing option, there needs to be some kind of community benefit that justifies going to the cluster housing option. Um, often times, if I'm remembering correct, that would be preserving a natural area that's on the the site that would otherwise have to be obliterated if we did traditional single family zoning. Um, I don't see that really on this plan, but I just wanted to make sure I'm remembering this correctly that a cluster housing option needs to see some type of community benefit to justify the increased density that it provides. Is that correct? The the intent behind the cluster housing is to, you know, almost smush the homes closer together and then with the uh leftover space that that that space is um either left as a natural feature that provides a benefit to the larger community or you know when we look at the farmer Jay's property um Plymouth Farms in that case they kind of created a natural area. Um they preserve some and then they had that other area that they reforested. Um so it can it can go both ways, but there there definitely needs to be some sort of larger um benefit to the site.

Um having reviewed the plan, my take is that I don't see that level of um benefit [clears throat] to the community. So as the applicant develops your presentation u to come back, I think that would be something you need to look at. Um, I also wanted to comment on these elevations that were provided to us. Um, I opened this up and I these are gorgeous elevations. Um, and the plans are the floor plans, you know, are first floor master mostly all first floor bedrooms very responsive to our concern about aged. However, unfortunately, um, these plans, when you go back and look at the dimensions on the house on the floor plans, you'll see that they're proposed for 80 foot wide lots. Um, that enables the side entry garages that are illustrated in all of these elevations. The actual plot plan shows 60 ft lots. So the elevations here are not possible because they would have to have front entry garages. And what you would be looking at is that probably roughly just under half of the front elevation would be the garage doors. So you all know that I I have a feeling that um side entry garages are one of the benefits or one of the premium features of the homes primarily in the western part of Clement Township. There are exceptions. One of the exceptions is the country club village condominiums directly south of this site. So that in and of itself is not a reason to deny the the application. But I do want to point out that all of these elevations that you see here are not they're not physically possible with the 60ft lots that are shown on the uh in the bigger layout here. So just I want to be clear that

everybody understands what they're looking at. Um, I also, uh, as I looked at this, um, there's a tree chart on page two, which thank you for doing a very comprehensive tree chart early on. That's a big improvement for us. But the majority of these trees shown on this tree chart are along the southern border. And assuming that this plot plan is actually correct where the trunks are located, most of these trees are not on this property. They're actually on the Country Club Village property to the south. Um, we also see that most of the trees along the far right border, it would be the east border and the far left border, which all have the red arrows, are removed. So, there's very few trees on this site that are actually being retained. Um, I did a look and it looks to me like it's well, I won't I won't say the exact number, but I just think this is this chart here. If we look at that, you would say, "Hey, great job retaining a lot of these trees." But in actuality, most of these trees are not on this property. They're on the property to the south. And the ones that are removed are mostly along the western border. And when you look at the site, uh you'll actually see that that's a really nice feature to have those trees along that western border. Provides some privacy with the homeowner to the west. Um they're nice trees. So, I'm concerned that that benefit of preserving natural features really is not being reflected here. Um, and also want to make clear that the chart that the majority of these trees on this chart are actually not physically located on this site. Um, so I wanted to to make that clear. Um, see if there's anything else. I I think this is, you know, I mean, we've talked a lot about the need for first floor masters and so forth. So, I think this proposal deserves serious consideration, but I don't believe the

way it's presented right now really meets the expectation of what's required for cluster housing.

Yeah, just to echo that, as I recall, some years ago that that property was owned by, I think, a mother and a son, and they came before us. they were going to build a home for them to live in and and develop the rest of it and they couldn't come up with an appropriate uh community benefit there. And so we never heard from them again. Uh and we're very sensitive to trees, especially as they are on lot lines to really identify who really owns those trees because we just recently lost a tree estimated to be over 300 years old uh where the two sites were being developed almost simultaneously. So, we're extremely sensitive about preservation of trees that are really on your site and not on somebody else's. Any other comments?

Yeah, I had a couple. Okay.

Uh, I wanted a clarification in the um document on page one under section 22.1 statement of principles item one, right? Um, it talks about under the traditional development, this community park is not possible. If you go up to the second sentence, right, it talks about because we want to implement the public housing option. It allows residents to enjoy a future community park located in outlot B. So, the plan is there, but it doesn't sound like putting the park amenities in is part of the plan to to be CHO. That reads to me like it really should have an incorporation whatever it is whether it's a swing set or a climbing I don't know what the theater right there's things you could put in there okay to make it be functional for the buyers coming in there upfront then it's less of a you're not following cluster housing option guidelines if that's truly what you want to do then I think this is an and it's not a eventually kind of thing number one. Number two, to Commissioner Boyd's point, right? Um, my goodness, first thing I looked at is you're killing beautiful trees, walnuts, elms, maples, right? Uh, hardwood trees that they're there. They're beautiful. So, find a way, please, okay, to not take them out because they're residents. They've been paying taxes for years here for the oxygen we're breathing in this room, right? So, they get a free pass, right? They're not paying the money, but they're they're taking our CO2 and they're pumping back the oxygen that we ingest. So [snorts and clears throat] we we want to keep as many as possible, right? And you know, we we're very passionate about it. Our residents are too. That was one of the number one highest things they wanted in the community was to keep the greenery a and when you look at on the housing, the first floor master, right? I I think the plan of what you guys could incorporate from content is phenomenal. It's much needed in this aging community. Okay. Uh

that you're looking at up here as well as in the metrics. So, you've got some good foundations, but I think there's the two big points there um are are must things, right? You have the time with one year. So, that that's all I want to add. Anyone else? Okay. Do we want do you have any comment back? Any feedback or questions? Okay. Okay. Well, you see where we're coming from. So, all right. Is there a motion to postpone application 2582 for up to one year?

Um, Mr. Chair. Um, I move that we postpone the cluster housing eligibility request for property number PC-2582, hidden enclave cluster, for up to one year to allow the applicant time to revise the plan and address the issues that were raised in the planner report and in our discussion tonight. I'd like to second that. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Iikes to postpone for up to one year application 2582. All in [clears throat] favor signify by saying I. I. Oppos. Motion carries. Good luck.

Yeah. The next is application 2560. And uh as you heard me say earlier, they've asked for a postponement. So, do you need you don't need to read your report or do you or what do you want to do?

I I figured I go over our our concerns with the site and then if you have any additional comments that we can pass along to them. Uh we're having a meeting with them next week. Okay, hold on. Let me get my material. Um What page are you going to be on, Liz? Yeah. Uh, I'm going to start on page two. Page two.

So, this is a tenative site plan for the Chevy Corvette Plymouth dealership and detailing center, which is proposed off of Ann Arbor Road. And uh it's it's two parcels. One's based on Ann Arbor Road and one is uh further down on Mammassie Drive just after the hotel. Um and in April of 2025, the planning commission granted special land use approval with uh 10 conditions. Uh and most of those conditions have been met. Uh, one I do want to point out, um, this isn't a concern, but they did submit a a sound, uh, study and from that, or I'm sorry, the noise study concluded that predicted sound levels comply with the applicable noise ordinance limit and the development's not expected to generate adverse noise impacts to the surrounding properties. And the [snorts] other one I wanted to note was the uh sidewalk connection to the dealership and detailing facilities. Because of that middle site in there, there's no sidewalk right there. Um they were required to work with the that property owner to possibly get one in and we haven't heard that they have done that. Um so that that would be a requirement for their site plan. in terms of preservation of site features. So phase one has an existing 39 trees which were part of the site's previous landscaping which includes the street trees along Massie Drive. Um, and the pro the applicant's proposing to remove 29 of these on-site regulated trees. And the tree survey states that there's 507 in of DBH that will be removed, but the applicant is not proposing to replace these. They're actually proposing a waiver request. Now, they are meeting landscape

requirements um for Massie Drive, but again, what they're proposing to meet landscape requirements doesn't meet the 57 in DBH requirement to for the trees that are being removed. So, and then um for phase two, this property has a a large stand of trees and they're proposing there's 280 existing trees. 28 of them are considered heritage trees and 27 of those are considered healthy which comes to a total of 566.4 ines of DBH. And then the survey doesn't actually call out a protected non-heritage trees. So really what we're going to be asking the applicant to do is to conduct a final tree survey and provide information for all the existing trees and like non-herit nonprotected [clears throat] heritage trees and and heritage trees so we can have some clarity on what's being removed and what's being proposed. Um impervious surface while the arc district does not have a maximum uh lot coverage. I just want to point out that specifically phase two it there is a significant increase in impervious surface for this uh site. Phase one is is is kind of already existing. Uh we we discussed the rightway sidewalk. Um that will be discussed with the applicant. But um for internal circulation uh they do have sidewalks around the buildings, but there actually is no uh sidewalk connection from the public rightway into the site. So we just want to make sure that they have something on there so pedestrians aren't just walking through the driveway accesses and the the aisles.

Um as I said, landscaping they um they do meet it. There is just some clarification on uh which portions they're including for interior landscaping just so we make sure those calculations are accurate and no buffering or screening is uh required to be provided uh from phase one to the property to the south. So that's why you don't see any there. Now phase two there was some discussion from the residents to the south um in the last plan during the special land use. Uh so the planning commission required in the special land use that a masonary wall be placed. Um but the applicant believes that the one that is existing is sufficient enough and they are uh proposing to keep all most of those trees um along that area and then in addition adding some additional trees. So they're proposing from that wall to the edge of the parking lot 60 ft of a buffer. But from previous discussions um the planning commission wanted to see a larger buffer um and they have not proposed that yet. Uh that is part of our discussions with them. And then in terms of building design, so phase one is is a pretty modern um mix of non-traditional materials. Uh the main concern for staff is the phase 2 building. Um it currently consists of a continuous flat facade with multiple overhead service doors and pedestrian entries, but there's no articulation or art architectural detailing beyond the change of the material at the base. So they would be asking for a lot of uh waiverss for the building design. um

which it might be applicable for this and it is set back. It's not against Ann Arbor Road, but again it will be visible probably from the residential lots to the south. Um and so it just it may be uh that you know strict adherence to these requirements might might not contribute mean meaningfully to the intent of the code. But the um the industriallike use of this or design of this just really might not be appropriate for this site. Um but that but the planning commission does have the ultimate authority to determine if the proposed design is consistent with the overall character of the surrounding area. Um and the last thing regarding to exterior lighting um they are over some of the limits like phase one exceeds the um any point within the site. Uh and and there are specific measurements of where those need to be measured and they aren't measuring them at that. So, we want to make sure that those are accurate um with the site plan. Uh those are our main comments for the Chevy site. We are recommending that we postpone the site plan approval tonight. Um so, we're able to address these comments with the the applicant.

I have a question. I know when I started reviewing the material, you know, my I was struck by the fact those are very large parking lots and then looking at your report, if I'm interpreting right, I think I am. So, um I can see they they are underparked in phase one. Uh [snorts] but there's they need to provide 75 additional spaces um that they said they would do in phase 2 which only requires 18 but they're having a total of 552 spaces. Yes. Do you know why so many is it for storage of new cars or used cars? Storage storage of the new cars.

So is there any do we have a standard for that kind of thing? We don't don't. Is there room even for that amount of cars? You mean for that amount of parking spaces? Yes. Yes. Well, it doesn't seem that big, but maybe it is. Could we ask them to benchmark other dealerships, right, that are in the township to try to level set? You look at Bob Janat on Sheldon Road. They don't have 500 parking spaces. Okay. This is a Corvette dealership. Okay. Well, I think it's regular Chevy. They're saying Corvette. It is. Don't know why, but it's they're going to move the deal.

Yeah, they'd never sell that many Corvettes, but if it's regular Chevy, they'll get the volume. Okay. So, we're trading off trees for ashalt to have a lot of dealer floor plan. And they have other sites that aren't that far away. It would be interesting to see. So they have the old uh the Chevy dealership uh Lula Rich's old dealership. So how many spaces are there? How how did they come up with that number that they feel that they need that that many uh and I see uh Hines Park, you know, they have a separate lot for new car storage, but it's empty. Right. Right.

Um couple comments here. I actually my career at Ford had a couple of assignments that relate directly to this um regarding dealership developments and then later on I was a franchising manager for one of the brands. Um this is going to be a very high volume dealership. If you look at the plans, it's it's basically a Chevy car and truck dealership um with a second floor dedicated Corvette showroom. So most of the volume will still be Chevy car and truck because Detroit is a um manufacturer site. The primary volume of cars sold by the domestic manufacturers in this market are actually through an employee plan. At Ford, it's called the A plan, but GM has something similar. This will be a very high volume enterprise. Um and therefore the storage needs are significant. Um I I though struggle with the um there the applicant is asking for a lot of exceptions here it seems to me and I think there's I think if we take look at this from a holistic point of view there's justification for some of the exceptions that they're asking for but I would like to see us get something back as a you know some benefit to the community for perhaps not insisting on some of these normal requirements that we would ask. And again, um to your comment, Commissioner IS, I would like to see a wider um uh buffer on the southern end of the site. Maybe they could eliminate the last row of parking spaces on the southern end of their parking lot. Might give us a bit more chance to retain a few more of the trees. Um, but I just think that we need to I I think there's justification the big picture for some of the exceptions

they're asking for, but I'd like to see us ask for something in return. And I think that the um, you know, I would ask that you all in the planning department really take the lead on that. Um, I also would say that the um the when we were at the last meeting, we asked for that that wall between us. Um, I went and looked at that today and actually, um, the wall is in very good shape. It's it's it's concrete panels, but it's stamped to look like brick and it's actually appears to be in quite good shape. Um, from the Bradberry Park side, it's 6t tall, so it comes right to the top of my head. On the other side, which is the elevation's a little higher. It comes to my shoulder, so it's about 5t high, but it is a 6 foot high wall. And much of that northern boundary actually has carports uh along that. So between the carports and the and the um 6ft wall um there is quite a degree of privacy but it would be beneficial I think to the community to add further privacy by expanding that 60 ft wall just a little bit farther to the north trying to save a few more of these trees. And Commissioner Boyd did provide me with some photos that he took this afternoon and I've given it to the planner so they can raise that those issues up when you meet with them. Is there any way another another thing your point is a good one to eliminate role of parking and and put safe try to save some trees but uh perhaps they could also explore you know a rain garden approach to the parking do something a little bit more environmentally you know uh sensitive. So are there other issues that you're concerned about that uh that they can raise up when they meet with them? Yeah. Um I was encouraged to see the report

Sabolski on the KN&S engineering LLC, right? Um sound power, sound quality. There's a difference, right? They have a logarithmic scale. So what I want to point out to people that aren't technical, right, is every 3 decibb on an a scale, okay, of an increase is doubling. So when you look at the gradient from 70 to 65 to 60 to 55 to 50, it's like, hey, those look like numbers. It's not a linear scale. So every three 55 to 58 it's a double. From 58 to 61 it doubles again. Right? So sound is is very important to understand which is why I like the plots. The fact that the work was done it's money well spent. Okay. Um because information on noise is important. Information on the traffic density is important too. Information on having a tree plot would be extremely beneficial. Right? Because I'd hate to say, "Hey, just give us another 20 ft from 20 to 40 and then you lose 55 heritage trees." I don't know what I don't know, but when I I look at the the noise plot here layout, which I really enjoyed, right, it did a very good job on meters of trying to show exactly what you're getting, right? And these trees actually do act as a sound buffer. Not as good as a wall, okay? But with the wall that Commissioner Bordon looked at today, it looks good to the residents. Great. uh it doesn't have that level of feature towards the building. If they were to incorporate um an anooic type of coating on there, right, with like the the triangles that bust up the sound pressure waves, you don't need a brand new wall to the epic point, but you can enhance it to try and knock those waves and bust them. So, the sound power level that reaches the neighbors that all came up here and spoke, right, they're very good about the noise. I think it could be improved from a tree coverage standpoint. A, let's get the plot done from putting some to sort of material on the side of the wall towards the

building. B, maybe slide that building a little bit further north. I don't know. I asked a specific question about where is the dumpster going to go because the one thing that grinds me the most living the township is when the waste management truck shows up, everybody always wants in the far back corner. And who gets to deal with it? The residents. I don't want it near anywhere near Bradbury. could put it towards the freeway, right? So, it's away from the the Massie road, which would be fine, but I'd like to see that on this this map as well. So, I'm encouraged that they've spent money here to provide good information, right? I just want them to be able to convert the information into the right solution for the trees, the residents, and the community consistent with the township survey. Uh, I don't want to uh slight the engineering report, but would you did you want to read any part of your engineering report tonight or are there issues that you think we need to address so that can be passed on to the applicant? Yeah, I mean um we noted um one of the comments we did have was on the sanitary sewer uh that the sewer district might need to be revised, but that's something that can be taken care of in engineering review. Um the storm, we just want to point out that they are using an existing regional detention basin. So the county will have to determine if there have to be any updates to that um regional basin but we believe that there will be withstander. So it's just more of a comment or not for them to know that um the main comment will be on the traffic uh or or traffic engineers provided a report based on the traffic study that was submitted to us on October 16. Uh it appears that there is already an existing um issue and it doesn't seem like that

this new development is going to make it so much worse. Um it's going to make a little worse but it doesn't seem like it is already existing. So this development is not going to increase that issue by um like it's not in the developer I guess or this development. Uh but there is a recommendation that um they do provide a do not block intersection sign for eastbound in Ararbor road and Macy drive. Um and then to look into upgrading the signal intersection of Inarbor Road and Kager Road and this will need to be validated by M do county. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. I have a question. Yeah. Okay. Um, page three of the planner report. Um, number eight, no major repair or major refinishing is permitted. I mean, it's a Chevy dealer, so what do you expect? I mean, of course, there's going to be some repair and some refinishing, so I don't know what that means. I guess did unless I'm not understanding it right,

you know, we need to go back and check that. I the prior material may have stated that they were going to retain their body shop at the old old site um on Plymouth Road. Oh, so we should we should check that. Oh, all right. I I believe the special land use was for minor repair or that's what they were minor repair, not major repair. So that's why that condition was in there. It shouldn't be major repairs or refinishing happening. All right. Then I I guess I'm mixed up if this is a real Chevy dealer or they're trying to do like a mini dealer but still keep the other

parks park has their own body shop downwhere else on Hagerty Road. Yeah. So I I think that most most dealerships now don't use the primary property to to do body work. Ford dealer in Northville does the same thing. So I I think that's where confusion is coming from. All right.

However, there's you know the dealership you'll see on the plan there is a quite an extensive service drive. They will be doing service and unfortunately right now GM has a potentially major recall on engines, V8 engines that were managed. So they will be replacing engines, replacing transmissions. They'll be doing major work, repair work. Any automotive dealership does that. So I'm the wording of that does kind of we got to make sure that's realistic the way the way it right. I mean automotive dealership actually operates. It's too vague. It needs to be defined. What is it and what is it not?

I think that, you know, having a body shop on the site might not be appropriate given the emissions and all the work they're done there, but a dealership's got to have ability for major repairs in their service department. You got to replace the Yeah. the engines like you're saying. Yeah. Did you have a comment? the the township ordinance defines what major and minor repair consist of and this was the applicant's application for special land use. If that is not going to work for their business plan, then they need to request a modification to their special land use. We can't address that during a site plan review. Okay. I think they should be clear what clear. If it's just a plain old Chevy dealer, fine. Just say it though.

Yeah, we went through that with that. Um, we went through that in detail with I forget the name of that safar. Yeah, that okay. We really need to clarify that because yeah, this is a this is a major dealership and that's a major part. I mean, a lot of automotive dealerships make far more money on the service department than they do in any other part of the business. I Right. I mean, I'm assuming they're going to just move the dealership, but maybe not. Maybe that's not correct. Yeah, you look at the plan here. This is the blueprint. It's a full service. It's a full regular

what it looks like, Tim, which means you've got air compressors going all the time, whether it's paint repair or tire inflation, right? Impact tools going on, which the noise survey is is accurate coming out of the doors the way they've shown it. I mean, you are right next to the entrance ramp of the freeway, so it's I mean, there is of course noise that's going to happen. Yeah. I mean, the noise the noise of the of the parcel one, the main dealership is, you know, to all your points, there's always a lot of ambience. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's the it's the sound of the second site storage site that probably needs a little closer.

Yeah. The phase two, I agree 100%. I'd rather see this building moved as far north on that lot as it is, as far away from the owners as possible so that noise doesn't reach them if if I were the king, but I'm not. I can only provide guidance here, right? But, you know, having wrecks, damaged vehicles of accidents sitting out is is something you can do if it's in a fenced area behind a building that no one can see, which is what they do at Janot GMC Buick. And I'd love to see a Chevy dealership come to Plymouth cuz Chevy does drive the Motor City. And I actually drove my Acadia through the ice and snow here with We were to have a Chevy dealer. We have a Chevy dealer. Yeah, I know. But it's not in this part of town. [laughter] It's in a different part of town. Should we have one on the west side?

No. You got a You got a Buick GMC there. Okay. Perhaps you could ask them on this parking. The thing that concerns me is that when when um the Henry Ford Health, you know, [snorts] site was being developed. I think we all agreed that that was an overparked facility, but they insisted on that parking. Yeah. So, are there standards that the U GM has for parking or is that vary by dealership to by dealership or what what do they see as their perhaps their own standards? You know, a little bit more data on how that conclusion was made that that's how many parking spots they need.

Commissioner Spy, that's an excellent point. I'm, you know, it's been several years since I had that role, but typically a manufacturer has pretty specific guidelines on um facility requirements based on what's called a planning volume, which is a forecast of what the dealership should actually be selling in today's environment. So, for a given PV, it might be 1500. There is a specific requirement in terms of facility size and so forth and so on. And I I I would imagine that number of parking spots is part of that. So that would be a good question to ask. What what is the Chevrolet guideline? What's the planning volume for the dealership? What's the guideline for that? Now, I think when the applicant was here, I think they mentioned that for the phase 2, part of that is actual storage of collector corvettes, which is not something that would normally be reflected in a manufacturers's facility requirements. So, I think we do need to keep in mind that this is a bit of a it's a regular dealership plus a dedicated Corvette showroom on the second floor plus a business model for storage of collector Corvettes in the second site. So, it's a little bit of apples and oranges. We have to be careful that we don't undermine their whole business approach.

They wouldn't be parking collective corvettes outside. I would think I would think not. Yeah. Well, it's a good question to ask. Yeah, it's a good question to ask. I thought I thought that's what that back building was for. That's what the back building is for multiple multiple layers storage that wouldn't be outdoors. Anyone else have any additional comments? I guess you have enough to talk to them about.

Yeah. So, um, do we need a motion or okay to postpone it for I'll say up to six months, but they can come down sooner. Is there such a motion? Yes, there [snorts] is. Uh, yes. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to postpone PC number 2560, the Lafantine [clears throat] Chevrolet/C Corvette dealership uh tenative site plan for up to one year. I think we should add in no 6 months. Oh, okay.

I would have been okay with the one year because they got a lot of work to do. This isn't a couple weeks with Christmas and whatnot. Okay. You got snow on the ground. This is too Let's get it right. I one year wouldn't be unreasonable. Um but I also would recommend [clears throat] that we amend the motion to say given the number of outstanding items. Yes. It's recommended that we postpone. Fine. [snorts] Is that good? Yeah. Good. That's fine. Okay. You got that. Laura, do I have to restate it or no? If she hasn't, I'll second [laughter] it. I'd like to second it. what he said. What he said. [laughter] Okay. So, Commissioner Pop made the motion. Did someone support it? Yes, I did.

Oh, you did? Okay. And Dan Khan did, too. It was a double support. Oh, okay. All right. So, it's been moved by Commissioner Pop, supported by Commissioner Iikes to uh postpone application 2560 for up to one year subject to conditions. All in favor signify by saying I.

I opposed. Motion carries. Okay, moving on to application 20 2568, the Al Car Wash tenative and final site plan. And Miss Hart, your report.

Thank you, Commissioner Sabolski. Um so this is um I believe the agenda says tenative and final but this is only for tenative site plan approval. Um and it's the applicant is proposing to construct a car wash facility along five mile road uh next adjacent to the future meer store. Um and the proposed facility includes three pay stations, uh stacking spaces and and 21 interior vacuum vacuums. Um it's zoned in the IND industrial district and it's uh in August of 2025, the planning commission granted the special land use and also postponed the tenative site plan approval. Um the site does have adequate setback in landscaping proposed along five mile road. Um however it was noted previously that um the impervious surface is there's a large amount of it and we recommended that it be reduced to 50%. Um but the applicant stated in their letter that they made their best efforts to do that but with the required sidewalk along New Meer Drive um that's not un that's unable to be met. Uh the building height is proposed to be um 35 ft which is compliant with the IND district and they also are compliant with all lot dimensions and building dimensions. um preservation of site features. They did provide a tree survey and the that indicates that there are removal of five trees and the preservation of 14 trees. However, the updated landscape plans uh don't did not show that the

trees that are being removed that were located within the proposed building footprint um that was shown in August of 2025 in that previous plan 28 existing trees are to be removed. It's unclear what's actually being proposed and so we are recommending as one of the conditions that this be updated to reflect what is existing and what they're going to be proposing. um previously stated the developments proposing to tapping into existing nearby utilities. Um they're proposing to do a water management strategy uh to um limit the strain on the public services. Uh the plans state that a significant amount of water [snorts] required for the operation will be reused and should have minimal impact on public services. Uh and the township fire marshall did approve the plans vehicular access and circulation. So access to the site is contained to Meyer Drive. There is no proposed access from 5m. Uh the site includes um actually 32 stacking places and they're only required to do 12 per bay. Um and I believe there's only one bay on site and a traffic impact study dated October 3rd, 2025 was provided and the township engineer did do a review of that in their letter. Um, I do want to address the the plans you have do not show the current sh the proposed shared access agreement that they're proposing with the property that's going to be to the south of them. Um, but we felt that there was minimal impact to what's they're proposing now in terms of landscaping. It there shouldn't be much impact to that besides the dumpster being moved a little. Um,

so we felt that that was okay to be addressed during final site plan. But you do have a picture of that shared access [snorts] uh site plan in your report and it shows the arrows right going north to south on the bottom south border. Yes. Mhm.

Um pedestrian access. Uh again there's an 8ft pedestrian path provided along five mile and and then a 5-ft sidewalk along Meyer Drive. um landscaping, screening and buffering. They met they are compliant with all what's required. Um even some exceed some of it. Uh parking loading. So they required one parking space per employee and they're showing five regular spaces. In addition to that, there's 21 indoor vacuum spaces. That's just one space per vacuum space. And then the stacking space is 32. So in terms of site circulation, um it [clears throat] was was discussed with the access of people coming in coming out the car wash and then the stacking spaces. There's so many stacking spaces. There really shouldn't be any internal circulation problems with people leaving the car wash, coming in and getting into those stacking spaces. But I just wanted to note that that that is kind of a busy area. People coming in and leaving and you know there there is sufficient stacking spaces. I don't expect it to exceed 32 cars at any one moment. Um building and design. Uh so it was noted in the special land use um that the building was originally proposed to be white. They have changed that. Um there the main colors of the building now are being proposed as shades of gray, off-white, and khaki. and they do meet the material requirements for the 75% of the building facade to consinary products. And then the indoor vacuums, some of them were proposed outside, but they are all now enclosed um in the building that's entirely faced by glass panels. There are they are still proposing bright colors and stripes to ban the top

of the building, but they're minimal, but they do stand out. um just recommended that the planning commission discuss that um facade material and color palette and provide direction if you don't find it suitable for the area. Um the exterior lighting uh was met for they don't exceed the maximum allowed. However, um one of the lighting the lighting poles are proposed to be 26 ft in height. The maximum with the new exterior lighting code is 25 ft for the industrial district. So that will just have to be reduced in size. Um accessory buildings they are proposing a 9 ft x 6 ft attendant booth which doesn't conflict with any requirements of the district but um they do need to provide us architectural details of that booth. Um and again the waste enclosure right now it's proposed on the south side of the site. Uh but we don't expect that to with the new site access that shouldn't be um I think they're still proposing in that area and it shouldn't be impacted too much. They did submit a sign plan. Um most of it is compliant. There is some questions about the ground signage in terms of sign height and sign area. But I do want to note even with site plan approval, signs must still be applied through the township under a separate permit. So there will be an additional review of their signage. Um so based on upon the number of outstanding items that require adjustment uh we are recommending that the planning commission grant tenative site plan approval for application 2568 the alcarwash site plan on five mile and that the applicant submit revised site plans for the f for the final site plan

uh review. Um that's my report. The applicant is here um and I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you. And the engineering report.

Good evening, commissioners. Um, we have received the site to for the car wash project be prepared by Stonefield Engineering. Um, at this time, we're recommending approval of the final site plan and our approval is contingent that the following comments are addressed to the satisfaction of the planning commission. Um this side is access ad adjacent to the meer development which is currently under construction. Um the car wash is proposed to connect to a meer project. Uh therefore the coordination with the township and meer will be required. The sanitary sewer and shared driveway entrance by the meer development uh will be required to serve the car wash. Um there is a current sidewalk occasion along Meyer Drive is shown to pass through an existing sewer manhole and we will want them to move easily far enough to avoid having a manhole in the sidewalk. Um on the watering sewer, uh we do not have any concerns although um we did have some discussions with the engineer that they might try to extend the public sewer um to serve uh the future development to the south um known as tractor supply. Um this will need to be coordinated during engineering review. Um, regarding the storm, they did make changes from the last submittal. Now they're proposing, well, they're showing that the over the car wash system will be accounted for in uh tension um that will be designed under a separate project. So this is something that we will have to look into once the other submet is um

uh done. Uh this is original detention basin for the BTE and at this time we yeah a formal submit has [clears throat] no I actually I'm sorry it's for next month I guess so this is something we'll have to review but um this um original basin will need to be installed and constructed before the car wash can be um done and approved. Um this will all have to be approved by Wake County and uh everything will have to be by their standards. So this is something they will have to coordinate with them. And regarding the traffic, a traffic study was provided by Fishb uh dated October 3rd and our traffic engineers provide a traffic review. Um they found that there is already a filling of service at the intersection of five mile road and Johnson Creek Drive but this Elc Carwash development is not cost of that it's already existing and um it is recommended that El Carwash works with Wayne County on coordination for the optimization of the traffic signal if needed at the interse um happy to answer any questions if needed. Thank you. Thank you. And the applicant is here for brought their own easel. Easels.

Good evening. Uh my name is Steven Barrett. I'm with All Rig USA and El Carwash. Uh grateful to be back in front of you guys for a second time tonight. Um I do want to first start off with an introduction to my team. Uh, I've got Alejandro Fernandez with Stonefield Engineering as well as Eric Meyers with Career CL Architects. Um, with us today, we've brought our updated site plans, landscaping plans, renderings, signage plans, and happy to go through them and the various updates that we've made uh, since our meeting in August. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Alejandro to go into more detail and our updates associated. Thank you.

[clears throat]

Hello, members of the commission. My name is Alejandro. I'm with Stonefield Engineering. We're located at 555 South Old Woodward, Birmingham, Michigan. We're the civil engineers on this project, and we're representing El Car Wash. Um, I know this is the second time you've seen this plan, so I'll try to keep it brief. Um, we're proposing a state-of-the-art car wash here with fully enclosed vacuum spaces, 21 to be exact. Um, five employee spaces along the south at the, um, southeast corner, and then the stacking which wraps around the building on the east and north of the site um, to provide 32 stacking spaces. Um I know water was brought up in the planner review. Um this site is equipped with a um reclamation system. It's composed of three tanks, three settling tanks and at the end it has a reverse osmosis filtration system. That's the system that allows us to reuse up to 90% of the water from wash to wash. Um so since um we were last year our plans have been revised to address the comments that we received on August u from the review letter. We've added sidewalks along both the frontage of 5mile and all the way along the east property line um along the meer drive. We've also added um the crossaxis driveway to the future south commercial development. I know it wasn't in your plan, so I brought the latest uh for you to to have in front of you. Um we've also removed the previously shown outdoor back spaces along the south. Um and we've basically replaced them with

just five employee parking spaces. Um, in addition to that, we relocated the flag pole further south to meet code and we've added, excuse me, can you point to the flag pole on there, please? A new location. So, it used to be somewhere around here.

Okay. And you had mentioned the sidewalk on five mile was clear, but you said on the east property line. Did you really mean the west property line? Okay. [clears throat] Uh [snorts] and then in uh in addition we added 11 trees to our site from the previous iteration bringing um the total trees in our site to 29 trees overall. [sighs and gasps]

Um, we've also, you know, supplied the planning and engineering department with the required documents, including a traffic study and a tree survey. As for the additional comments that were mentioned in the agenda packet for tonight, um, we've really been working uh towards that 50% redu or total impervious area uh recommendation. Um with the addition of the two sidewalks along the full stretches of our property both north and west and the addition of the crossaxis to benefit the or to improve the circulation within the overall development. It it really wasn't possible without compromising the functionality of the site. Um but we're also be uh well below a typical commercial um imperous area coverage. Most commercial sites are from 75 to 80% of conver of impervious coverage where we're with those additional impervious areas only at 60%. Um and I want to clarify the total trees removed. The discrepancy um was because of the updated um tree survey that we provided. Um we provided a tree survey to meet um the ordinance requirements of showing any tree on site that's 8 in or larger. Um and that's what's depicted in our plan along with their species and their condition. Um, so any additional trees that were shown to be removed will be removed, but they're just small trees that are not regulated by the requirements of the zoning ordinance. Um, and then the light bulbs, that's an

easy change. Um, at the time of our initial submission, the ordinance stated that we were at 30 ft or allowed to have 30 foot light poles, which is why we provided 26 ft. But we'll be happy to work with city staff and reduce them to to 25. Um, and then the proposed monument sign. I know that was also a need to show. This is a preliminary rendering of what the sign will look like and we'll make sure it meets uh all the requirements both the maximum 8t height and the um 40 square ft total area and we'll also work um with city staff to obtain all the signage permits that are required before the start of construction. As for the engineering comments, um we're working alongside PEA who's designing the regional basin for the VTEC development and we've been coordinating back and forth to uh make [clears throat] sure everything lines up and that we're fully included in that basin. um and any changes um with their design or any of their plans is not going to impact our um site layout whatsoever. So, I think that addresses all the the civil comments with that. I'll leave it to Eric Myers, the architect, to talk about the elevations.

Can I ask one clarifying question? Of course. So, on the trees, there was confusion. So, you were putting in 29 new ones. We total we are putting 29 new ones. We've added 11 since our last iteration. So you went from 18 to 29. And how many are on the site today? Whether they're scruffy ugly trees. There's scruffy. Yeah. Scruffy ugly trees. We um surveyed all the ones that are 8 in in diameter or bigger. Okay. Everything else wasn't um measured. So what I was trying to get to is you're putting in more trees that are there versus what's there today and they're better quality trees. Is that

Yes. Also, um, if you look at the trees that we're removing, the conditions of the trees are between fair and good. So, none of them are excellent. Um, they're aging trees, so we'll provide brand new ones. Okay, thank you for clarifying that.

Of course. Hello, my name is Eric Meiles with Creger Clutch and I'm the project autoch on this site. Uh there wasn't too many architectural comments from last time, mostly civil, but the main one that we uh wanted to address was the concern about the amount of white that was on the um original concept that we had submitted to you guys. Um the alcohol wash brand is typically an all white brand. We usually incorporate a little bit of gray and then we have the uh the essentially magenta and cyan colors which is the corporate branding um colors for this site. We did try to uh add some more warm hues into this building. Um I'm just going to stand over here. Um you can kind of see the rough difference between the two um concepts. We have being the main primary color. um throughout while what used to be the uh dark gray um inset bricks come out while the white is regained. We've also updated the uh the [snorts] metal metal panels at the entrance of the vacuum. We had a bone white. We have that mean gray. You can also see the uh color choices um right on this panel which we're happy to pass around to anyone who wants to see it as well as the split base CMU that'll be at the base of the building. I want to make one suggestion here and I apologize for interrupting. If you could take the the civil drawings down and put that beside on the easel beside that you have an A to B which allows us from a

color match and trim to see this very clearly on following the direction that Commissioner Boyd gave a couple months back. No, that does help because white is very common down in Miami where it's Florida where your headquarters is at, right, which we get. It reflects. It uses less AC load. It's all the right stuff. But this is a gray area and we don't get that much sun. So, it matches what's in the community much better with what you've come back with. Can [snorts] you pass the board? Can you give him the board and we'll pass it by so we can see it a little more carefully. Thank you.

Up right in front of Commissioner Boyd. We'll stand behind looking good start any missing um materials they would just transfer to this one that just means they stay the same. I'm not a color and trim expert so I appreciate those that have a better eye.

While you guys look at that there's also a request for the trash enclosure elevations. It will be a split base just the same as the base of the building. Um [snorts] matching a stormy color. You can see it by the gray. Can put that book right by the gray. Look at the color match. I can pass this around. It is a bit heavy. It's all right. We're used to it. Got to do heavy lifting on this. [clears throat]

Colors are the same colors. You see they've rearranged [snorts] where they're located in the building. So is this the main square? That's the update. Switch these two. Put that by. This is better. Tim. What did you I just wanted to show brick so you could see. Yeah. The match. Yeah.

Lighter gray and the darker gray. How heavy is it? Yeah. You pay people a lot of money in the auto companies to do this. Special pallets, rooms, lights, you name it, man. There's a legion of people that do this. It's an interesting use of this reflective mirror to kind of call attention to that tower and uh without using lighting uh that's an interesting concept. Oh,

it's like a mirror. And then also show the timers as well. Yeah. It's a very much improved over. Yes. Uh I did look at at your website where you have uh other facilities and I have noticed that uh it seems like you were settling on a certain look because there's quite a big difference. I looked at the one in Brighton uh as well as some of the ones you have in Florida.

If I if I can make one comment on that. Um, this will be the first, I'm going to call it quote unquote khaki design that we have across the entire brand, our entire portfolio. This is the first time we've deviated [snorts] pretty substantially from the brand standard. Um, so hopefully, you know, we feel like that matches the Meyer architectural and the overall feel of the area. Hopefully you guys appreciate that as well. Well, we do. I'm just wondering, are you going to call it the uh the Boyd khaki gray or the Plymouth Township khaki gray now as a secondary option on [laughter] color? I don't know why it's me.

You pointed it out. It was a great call. I mean, we're doing it, but hey, whatever. [snorts] Um I I had a a couple questions actually. I'm going to direct it to the planner, but also you the access to the site to the south. Now, there would be other access to that site as well when it's developed. So, this would not be the only driveway to that site. Correct. Correct. There will be another one just further down that on that site. Do we have any idea what that site is likely to be yet or is that not for public discussion at this point? Do we know what it's going to look like? Do we know what the other site will be? What the use would be? Tractor Supply. Yeah,

tractor. That's correct. Yeah, intended use is tractor. Okay, gotcha. Um, and then on your sign, your podium sign, can we pull that back up? Um, related to that, you obviously have the blank space to the left of the LC car wash. Would that be for tractor supply or That's correct. For tractor supply. Gotcha. Okay. or if the tractor supply use changes, whatever the secondary use behind our site would be, right? Is that background going to be white like that? Correct. Okay. And it's backlit. That's correct.

Okay. I I totally agree with Commissioner IS. The color palette is, I believe, much more appropriate for Plymouth Township. So, thank you for making that. I think it's it's it's ideal, I think, for almost [clears throat] any other location because it's sort of a neutral color palette. Yeah. Um, so

we're also seeing on top of the Michigan expansion, we're moving into new markets in the Northeast as well as Chicago, the greater Chicago area, we've definitely seeing, especially in the Northeast, the increased requirement for masonry and a non more more white or sorry, uh, red brick color. And I we feel like this is kind of the first iteration in that new prototype for us. So most your other sites are all white brick. That's correct. Either either white brick or strictly white ephus.

What is the color of the roof on the top if you were looking down from a drone? Uh we use tpo observing white. Good. Good answer. Great. Other concerns or comments about it?

Comment here is this is the first indoor dry your car vacuum at car wash in the township from a safety standpoint. The fact we're all aging, right? I can't stress enough how important it is to be able to not slip and fall whether it's spring, summer, fall, or winter, right? Because I I go to the pure wash today and everybody's out there slashing around. [snorts] So, I see the benefits. It's quiet. It's got the 90% circulating water. You have all the right stuff. And now the appearance looks good. And the the the orientation of of trees on there is good as well. So, this is significant improvement, which I'm pleased to see. Thank you.

Okay. Are we ready for a motion for tenative? Um, Mr. Chair, I recommend that we the planning commission grant tenative site plan approval for the application number 2568 L car wash site plan in 5mile road and that the applicant submit a revised site plan for future consideration which addresses the outstanding items we discussed tonight. Is there support? Second. Moved by commissioner boy, supported by commissioner Kevin to grant tenative site plan approval to application 2568 subject to set requirements. All in favor signify by saying I

opposed. Motion carries. Well, good progress. Think we like what we see. So, thank you. We're excited to be in Plymouth Township as evidenced by other [laughter] dollar signs instead of the snowflakes you see in the dollar sign. Thank you very much, guys. Really appreciate it.

Miscellaneous business. An update on the master plan. Thank you, commissioners. Um, we continue to um make progress and updates to the plan based on the feedback that was provided at our last meeting, and we're very close to sending out that um draft. We have the study session planned, the joint study session with the board um planned for that first week in January. And uh we have an agenda for that that will be shared shortly um coming from the supervisor's office. That should be a a good discussion. Okay.

Is there another study session with just us or those are done now? Um right now just the joint session. Okay. This all right. And then are there any questions on the uh November planners report? Um, actually before we get to that, Laura, I thought I saw in your note when you cancelled the the work session we had last week that you had planned to actually give us a rough draft of the entire master plan update tonight. Is that no longer the case? Yes, we're still we're still finalizing it. So, I said we're close, but not ready for prime time.

So, when do we see that done? Uh, we should be able to send it out and um we can print the copies and have dispatch drop them off at your homes. Um, hopefully no later than like early next week. Next week. Yeah. Okay. I don't think this Friday is feasible, but Okay. Next week. Thank you. Sorry.

Oh, that's okay. Um, so any questions, comments on the November planners report? Um I I have one on page two 41661 Plymouth. This is the hillside site. Um it said board of trustees granted final PUD approval on November 1st, 2024. Applicant has submitted for file stamp under review. What where is the what is the status on courthouse?

Uh that that has been approved. The applicant has requested a meeting with engineering and planning in the supervisor's office to discuss some potential future modifications. So they may be coming back with some revised plans, but as presented it it was approved. Okay. So we are making progress. Yes. Okay, great. And then I just had a just a a question I guess or so the one underneath it 46200 North North Territory application for residential lots split. I think the house is built. So, it says under review. So, I don't know what that means.

There was a previous lot split for for the house that's constructed there today. Then the applicant requested another lot split which is just stalled. Oh, okay. Okay. So, that's something else. Okay. Yeah. There's a number of engineering items that have to be addressed and may never be out there for a while. Um, can you also get on the Sarapun site?

Um, they have been in discussions with engineering and Wayne County on the extent of the or the the improvements that they have proposed regarding the sanitary and water line. Uh, they have until the the first week of January to either make a decision that they are going to go that route um or um the application will be delayed. Thank you. Anything else on this? I'm just curious the praise Baptist Church thing. That's just that one house.

Yes. Yeah, it's just that one house. We're still trying to get the sewer connection separated house. That's what's stalling it right now. Okay. Any comments from the commissioners? I have uh one. Okay.

Um so I'm going to be stepping down in probably in January uh probably after the um [clears throat] January 21st meeting is uh Supervisor Kermy is um has to find a replacement because we're required, you know, by law having a board of trustee uh member in the in my my seat. But um and I'm it's been 9 years um it's you know for health reasons I think most of you are aware that I have Parkinson's and um I'm doing fine with it. Um but I need to spend more less time in my chair and more time in the gym uh to fight it off. It's been 3 years now and you know it's a progressive disease but I can I can last for a long time if I um if I focus more on on my on on the things I need to do to maintain my health. So that's the reason. But I've really enjoyed it's a really good commission now. Um, everybody contributes and does their homework and um, I think this is a really good time, appropriate time for me to to leave. I've been thinking about it for a while. So,

well, we appreciate your contributions. I mean, they have been really valued and wish you the best of luck and success in in your battle. Yeah. I had no idea there was anything wrong with you. Everybody thinks there's something wrong with you. Well, [laughter] not mentally. That's what we know about him, right? No, I had no no clue. So, you should still be with us for our next meeting in January, the third day.

I think I I I will. Um, my intent was uh to stay through the um update of the master plan and I had uh talked to Kermy about that about a year ago. Said I wanted to stay through and see that see that help see that through and then um and then transition it off. So, somebody's going to need to learn to drag the computer. Um uh yeah that's very handy in the meetings for sure. Yeah that's huge. So it's not that I mean anybody who

you know can do it but um I'll you know provide some training if somebody wants to you're very good at it and your wittiness is also very good also. Yeah. So it's been a pleasure working with you Bob. I'm speechless but yeah [snorts] you know we're all behind you big time. Thank you. And thank you for everything you've done here. Thank you for training some of us on We need to be realistic in our expectations and so forth. Yeah, you got that pesky board of trustees to deal with all [laughter] the time. Just wow. Thank you for all your service to the township all these years. All these years.

Wow. Okay. Thank you. I know. [clears throat] So you're I mean you're stemming out from planning commission but also the board of trustees. No, no, I'm going to just planning commission. Just planning commission. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So Okay, good. So you're still on the board. Yeah. You know, but my job is the treasurer. um in front of a computer and in a chair all day long and I'm not moving and um

you know I need to uh focus on um getting thing the thing about Parkinson's is the most important thing you can do to fight it off is uh movement exercise. Mhm. Um, and my the first year I was really good at it. I ran a half marathon after being diagnosed for a year.

Um, and then in the recent months, I've been less uh disciplined and I need to get back to [clears throat] that. My wife's starting is noticing um you know I'm starting to have like trouble um uh if I like I can't get in and out of the car is I I if you when I get out of the car and I look like I'm drunk and I park in the police That's right parking lot. So, [laughter] you could watch videos of me going out the car and it looks like I'm drunk, right?

But it's not, you know, it's um it's not a death sentence. Uh and you know, it is what it is. You deal with it. My brother also has it who's two years older than me and he's uh progressing at a lot faster rate than I am. So, don't know where it comes from, but I'm mostly convinced it's something in the environment. Um, you know, we we're probably exposed to the same thing as children and um we grew up not far from wot chemicals and it was pretty polluted down there. Mhm.

So, um they don't know. Yeah, they don't know. [clears throat] Yeah. Well, we look forward to seeing you again next month. Thank you. And best of luck and success in in your fight. Yeah. And uh so with that on a little maybe a happier note, merry Christmas to all. Happy holidays. Enjoy yourselves and uh hopefully see each other in early January.

Wait, one one sorry one one question. The planning commission dates uh I don't know was this we voted on it. We voted on it and it's fine last month. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, are we ready for uh a motion to adjourn at uh 8:11? Uh Mr. Chair, I move we adjourn at 8:11. Second move by Commissioner Bon, supported by Commissioner P to adjourn the meeting. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Motion carries.