Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I left my pen in the car.

I only have the one. That's fine. No, no. [Applause]

Hi. Yeah. Turn on your light. Yep. Mine's on. Do you want? His is on. Red means it's on. You want his off or? No. No. I I think he's going to be here or you didn't tell me he wasn't. Okay. Yeah. You start, I guess. Okay. Oh, here he is. Okay. Just hang it. Stop that. Too early. Hello. Hello.

Hello. This The Plymouth Township Planning Commission meeting will come to order at 11:31. No, 6:30 or 6:31. That's what time we're going to end. That's what you think. I was thinking this is 10:30. Uh, okay. 6:31. Secretary, please call roll. All right. Dennis Sabolski here. Tim Boyd here. Bob Dor Shvetsz here. Steuart Pop here. Dan Callahan here. Billy

here. David Labake here. Uh, it's a full house. Thank you. And do we have a a motion to approve the agenda as submitted? Uh, Mr. Chair, I move we approve the agenda as submitted. Second. Move by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to approve the agenda as submitted. All in fig all in favor signify by saying I opposed. Motion carries.

Um is there anyone here that wishes to speak to a non-aggenda item? Okay. Application 2567 5 mile road to Al Carwash special land use and the planner please read your report.

Thank you chairman Sabolski. Good evening, commissioners. Liz Hart with McKenna. This is a special land use request for an auto wash facility in the industrial district. It's on a vacant lot off of five mile road. It's just west of the water tower uh property and is east of the those new meer site. Um, so a car wash within the is not outright permitted use in the industrial district. It does require a special land use. That is why they're here tonight. We based our review off of the six standards within uh section 2.7 of the zoning ordinance referring to um considerations for evaluating the special land use. Criteria one uh has four considerations within it mainly re referring to the use of the location and size and character of the property. So number one one a the intensity and scale of the use in comparison to the surrounding uses and condition. So, the property again zoned industrial dust the in the industrial district. The properties to the north uh I'm sorry to the east, south, and west are also in the industrial district. The properties to the north past 5 mile road are in Northville Township and are zoned public recreation and open space and residential. And the future land use map for the properties within Plymouth are under are classified as light industrial. And based on the surrounding properties within Plymouth Township, we do find that the project intensity and scale are generally fitting. Um again, the site butts industrial zone properties to the east, south, and west. And the site is of a similar use to the incoming adjacent meer store and gas station.

[Music] Consideration 1B, consistency with the master plan. Again, the site is designated as light industrial and the proposed commercial use is within the scope of the light industrial and light industrial future land use designation. Um, and the surrounding uses of similar service type have been permitted nearby like the Home Depot, Bank of America, Taco Bell, and Panera Bread. These are all just east of the site. And also the project has the potential to serve as a buffer between the residential district in to the north in Northville Township and to the land south of the parcel that's industrial that is zoned industrial. Consideration 1 C the impact of the use of natural features on the site. Currently the site's vacant and much of their surrounding area is also vacant. there is a significant amount of natural vegetation to the south of the property. Um and then across the road in five mile in Northfields Park there is a small water pond or small body of water. Um and we do see that these areas are particular vulnerable to runoff especially with the proposed use using so much water and how uh the surf how imperviously paved the surface is for the use. The applicant does plan to use a modern water reclamation system with settling tanks, oil water separators, and a reverse osmosis system to contain and reuse a majority of water for the wash. Um, they also plan to use environmentally friendly biodegradable soaps. Um, so as submitted, the plan does reflect mult multiple storm water catch basins where storm water runoff will be detained prior to leaving the site. Um the proposed landscaping plan. Now I know your report says it does

appear to satisfy the ordinance that is supposed to say does not. Um we did do they have submitted a site plan application where there is additional review of this. Um and those do have conditions to help it meet the ordinance. Um and also uh the applicant will need to submit a more detailed tree survey. But overall, the proposed use is not expected to significantly impact the site's natural features or the surrounding area as long as appropriate landscaping and buffering are maintained and implemented and as well as their water management practices and the implementation of the biodegradable soap are used. Consideration 1D, the intent of the zoning district is met. Again, this is in the industrial zoning district. Um, and while it's not an industrial use, it is a service-like use and the subject property is surrounded by similar commercial uses as I noted before. So, we do find the site is appropriately located um to protect surrounding uses from potential nuisances associated with car washes. However, the site does need to comply with the industrial district standards, which does require each use to conduct wholly within an enclosed building. The site plan does show some vacuuming spaces on the outside. Those would need to be enclosed within the building as a condition. Criteria two relates to the public health and safety and welfare of the public based on the use. Um its location again is within the industrial area and the preliminary site plan information provided. The applicant appears to meet the intent of this criteria. Um the site is largely contained which serves to protect nearby uses. Um and the facility complies with setback requirements and is appropriate located on the site in

proximity to similar uses. However, as noted above, the unenclosed vacuuming stations will need to they're on the south, but they do need to be in complian with the industrial district. And the fire department and engineering reviews will be required as part of the site plan. Criteria three, will the use be adequately served by public services and not adversely affect public services to the existing land uses in the area? Um, again, the site surrounded by commercial developments which are served by existing utilities and the applicant intends to tap into these existing utilities to serve the site and the applicant has stated that a significant amount of the water required for operation will be reused and should have a minimal impact on public services. Criteria four uh is in regards to vehicular circulation and traffic impact. Access to the site is contained to the internal road meer drive. There is no proposed direct access to the site from five mile which does reduce the curb cuts and limits uh turning conflicts on five mile. And for the site plan, a site impact or a traffic impact analysis has been requested by the engineering department. The site does contain 29 stacking st spaces which does comply with the indust or with the car wash specific use standards and it's not expected to generate overflow onto Meyer Drive. Criteria five is in regards to the proposed use will not be hazardous to the site and to the surrounding areas. Um it's not anticipated that this area that this use will interfere with neurot traffic or be hazardous to the surrounding areas. So we do find this criteria to be met. Um and criteria six is in regards to the site development standards. Um and we put those we

reviewed those under the site plan application which is on the agenda later. But in terms of specific use standards um for car washes, the first one be consistent with the purpose of this article and the a car wash can be classified as a service use as it is a commercial facility providing a service which supports the user base in this area as well as the industrial district. Um the second use standard not impair the present or potential use of adjacent properties. Again, the sites adjacent to the future Meyer store, which provides access to an internal access drive. We do not find that the shape or size of the parcel would hinder future development of the surrounding vacant areas. Um, and the proposed landscape in Birming, which would need to be finalized in the site plan review, appears to be sufficient. Um, and additionally, the proposed development is not expected to impair with permitted industrial uses and a future development. Pending any additional information during the public hearing, we do recommend the planning commission approve the special land use application PC number 2567, a drive-through car wash facility on a vacant parcel in five Mile Road with the following conditions. Approval of a site plan which addresses all planning, fire, and engineering requirements. And number two, the enclosure of all vacuuming stations so that all activity occurs indoors. That's my presentation. I'm happy to take any questions and the applicant is here as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Hart. The applicant is here. You want you have a presentation. Just sign in here. Do you want like a company and address? Um, just the company name and then of course of course

Okay, perfect. Good evening, members of the planning commission. Uh, my name is Steven Barrett. I'm with All Rig USA and Elcar Wash. um 3200 Telegraph Road, Bingham Farms, Michigan. Uh grateful to be back up in front of you guys again today as we previously were back in April. Um first I want to say that uh Gabe Shookman and Shannon Price could not be here tonight. Um they both say hello and thank you guys for the time today. Um I want to introduce the team that I have with me today. Uh I have Mitchell Harvey with Stonefield Engineering and I have Jeff Clatt with Kger Clat Architects as well as Rob Spak directly with Elcarwash as well. Um today we've brought our we've brought some boards with site plans and material boards. Uh and we're happy to talk through and answer any questions that you guys have. Um with that I'm going to turn over to Mitch Harvey to go into more detail about our plans. Thank you. Good evening. Mitchell Harvey with Stonefield Engineering. Um I know this is specific to the special land use, but I do got to talk a little bit about the site plan just to kind of paint the picture for you. Um so as mentioned is this is the existing site just to the east of that future Meyer gas station. Um it's on 1.46 acres. Uh and one thing about the property is it's it's fairly unique in the fact that it is less than 150 ft wide but is over 350 ft deep uh to get to that that 1.46 acre size. So really it's a a narrow and longer lot which is naturally conducive to a car wash use there where you have that longer tunnel which is a little bit narrower compared to your typical to your typical building. So, um the proposed site plan, uh will include an LC car wash over here and then we'll have the fully enclosed vacuum spaces uh

kind of more central to the site. Access to the site, which is not shown, is going to be through this uh Mayer ring road that actually comes in through here, goes around here. I have another site plan that I can bring up and if if there's any questions in that regard, but there will not be any new curb cut onto five mile. I want to make that clear. Um, general d traffic flow through the site will be in a counterclockwise direction with uh stacking along the south and east side of the property. Um, providing a total of 29 stacking spaces fully within that designated stacking lane. Um, and as you know, majority of that stacking lane is going to be paved with heated concrete to kind of limit any ice and snow buildup. uh interior of the site, we have those 21 uh vacuum spaces that are going to be fully enclosed. Uh with the submitted plan, I understand that uh the 11 space to the south down here have to either be fully enclosed or removed or used for employee spaces. Um we're willing to to abide by that and we'll either um remove those vacuums or uh you know come up with some solution there to enclose them. Um just briefly on the lighting, all the lights are going to be fully down lit LED fixtures, dark sky compliant, and the landscaping plan um is going to be fairly robust with 25 trees and various shrubs and ground covers throughout the site. We'll also add those additional trees as required within the site plan review and we're willing to commit to that as well. Um utilities, uh Elcarwash uses a state-of-the-art water reclamation system to limit the impact on municipal water and sanitary. The building will be fitted retrof will be fitted with a three-stage oil water separator or three-stage settling tank which goes to an oil water separator and then through a reverse osmosis system to allow for 90% of the water reuse from wash to

wash. As mentioned in the staff report, um all soaps are envir are environmentally friendly and biodegradable. And um really some of the modern wash equipment that Elcar Wash uses uses significantly less soaps than these older model car washes where they're really relying a lot of that on that soap. The the modern equipment is able to reduce that that soap soap need. Um so with that, um I I that brief highlight of the site plan. Um, I would like to touch on the special land use criteria. In a nutshell, we're in full agreement with the McKinnon review letter. I don't want to repeat everything they said, but I did just want to go through a few items. We feel the use is harmonious with the surrounding uses and zones. Um, it's consistent with the Meer store as well as the Meer gas station directly adjacent to us. Uh, it's consistent with the master plan and continuation of the commercial corridor kind of along that south side of FiveM. um no impact to any natural features with all those bio biodegradable soaps and storm water management. Um follows the intent of the industrial district um by providing a service auto service use to the community. Um no detriment to public health, safety and welfare. Uh site is adequately served. We have utilities directly within five mile actually on our side of the site. So um very very readily available. And then sight access again is going to be off that that uh that ring road that services meer. So there's going to be no new curb cuts um on to 5 mile and then just the natural uh customer base of a car wash is relying significantly on pass by trips. So people that are going to and from school, to and from work, you know, you're not going out of your way to go get a car wash. You're not leaving your house to go get a car wash and netting trips. you're, you know, doing that in part of your your trip

train as you're going from place to place. Um, and and that's really it from a special land use criteria. Um, with that being said, I we're happy to answer any questions. We thank you for your time and um that's all I got. Thank you. I'm going to request our attorney to lead off uh with a question uh that uh he has and I think the rest of us has as well.

Thank you. just forformational purposes. What impact will it um if if the planning commission grants the special use in this case, what impact will that have on LC car wash's um existing application to install a similar car wash at 40700 Ann Arbor Road? I I do you want to speak to that or you want me to?

Sure. Um there there will at this time there's no no impact to that. We intend to pursue both locations. Uh we believe the sites are far enough apart from each other and kind of two separate markets of Plymouth Township and serve different areas of the township as well. Um so long story short, there's no impact at this time. Do other commissioners have a question? have one. Um, my only question was on the enclosed vacuums. Um, is that facility heated during the winter and then cooled during the summer? I

believe it's heated. I don't know if it's cooled. Uh, yes, correct. We'll we'll have a proper HVAC ventilation system and everything will be, you know, heated in the winter. We obviously don't want our, you know, the the cars produce exhaust obviously. So, we will we will uh adhere to Plymouth Township's ordinance from that standpoint. And um yes, it it will be heated and and cooled in the in the and specifically cooled in the summer with air condition. Correct. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Other questions? No. No. Good.

Yeah. I mean, I know you're going to do both. This seems like a a pretty logical site for that. Right next to a Meyer's, you know, gas gas station and on Five Mile and you're the first ones there. And I don't know. I think it's it's it's pretty good there. Bill, the question was on the interior from health and safety, right? Carbon dioxide poisoning, the venting, right? Are there any tubes you can put on exhaust pipes that hang from the ceiling like typical, you know, car repair shops or is this just going to be, you know, vented with something sucking stuff out? My architects trying

Good evening, Jeff Clay with Creger Cloud Architects. That's a great question. We have We will have an MEP engineer, mechanical, electrical, plumbing engineer that'll dive into that for us to make sure the building is compliant from a code standpoint. I don't have an exact answer for you, but it will be safe. it'll it'll adhere to all the code and uh zoning regulations from a mechanical standpoint. Okay. Thank you. And and I did want to echo echo Commissioner Pop's comments, right? This is a logical place. Okay. There is not a

high density of car washes within a a onem radius. There is another one. Okay. And and I did drive by the site today on the way back from Brayburn, but I did see a a billboard or a signage. Maybe I just missed it, but I did see you the M1 DC Gary Jones, you know, that was signed that was there, but there's nothing on letting No posted. Uh, no. Yeah, I just drove by there a couple of days ago and now I don't remember seeing that sign. Has this been properly noticed? Yes, we did a public hear public hearing notice. Um, it's they are not required to have a sign on site. That's for zoning reszonings. Okay. just for reasoning. Fair enough. I just

All right. So, can um can we consider this? We're not going to get into the details of the site plan at this stage, but is this uh expected to be a prototype for the facility that you're seeking on uh and Arbor Road? When you say prototype, what do you mean? This

is it going to look similar to that? is are the mechanics you know the you know the interior vacuuming and the interior vacuuming the equipment will will be very similar. Yes. So, uh, I don't know what the timing of all of this is, but when we had our public hearings for the one on five, there was always a big concern about noise, which I don't think is going to be as big of an issue with this particular site. But with the noise, uh, if we drove drove by there, once you have it built, that noise level would we can expect that to be the same as what it would be on five or

Yep. It'll still have those same. All the vac producers are going to be enclosed. Uh you have the speed doors and then you also have the uh dryers that have silencers on them. So it would have that same noise dampening equipment. Um yeah, other questions from anyone? Okay. Are we ready for a motion? Yep. Mr. Chair. Oh, wait a minute. Before we do that, open public hearing. Yeah. So, do you uh is there a motion to open the public uh hearing at 654?

Uh, Mr. Chair, I move we open public hearing on the application at 654. Second. Moved by Commissioner uh Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to open the public hearing. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Motion carries. Anyone here wishes to speak to this application? Okay. Yeah, because it's recorded. And I'm Dale Burnernhard. We know that whole area was brownfield. My question is, is this a brownfield site that requires mediation of the soil? Was it bought from Meyer or was it bought through the MITC process?

Oh, ask the question. Anyone else or Okay. Is there a motion to close the public hearing at 6:55? Mr. Chair, I move we close a public hearing at 6:55 p.m. Second. Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to close a public hearing. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed? Motion carries. Uh, can someone answer that question?

Uh, yes to your question. Um, the site is considered a brownfield. Um we it is a part of the MITC um act I guess and then we're purchasing the site from retico not meer directly um we have yet to do geotechnical investigation but our preliminary environmental investigation has uh warranted this site as a brownfield. Good question. All of the MITC is one big brown field. The MITC's the entire all the parcels are considered part of

correct uh this one brown field. Not including the property west of uh Ridge. Yeah. Even that so there's nothing anyone has to do to No. Okay. That makes it quicker. Yeah. Okay. Any any other questions? Um I I would just want to say that my vote on this is specific to this site and has no bearing on the other application that you guys are presenting right now. Understood. Is there a motion?

Uh Mr. Chair, I move that we recommend the planning commission approve the special land use application number PC 2567 for a drive-through car wash facility at 5 Mile Road with the following conditions. One, approval of a site plan which addresses all planning, fire, and engineering requirements. Two, the enclosure of all vacuuming stations so that all activity occur occurs indoors. There's support. Yes. Second. Who said it first? Okay. Move by Commissioner Boy.

Move by Commissioner uh Boy and supported by Commissioner um Iikes to um approve the special land use for application 2567. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Motion carries. Okay. Next is Application 2569 to 15,000 Ridge Road special land use for outdoor storage and MARA your report.

Thank you chair Molski again. Good evening commissioners. Liz Hart with McKenna. This is another special land use request in the industrial district for an additional five acres of outdoor storage. 10 acres of outdoor storage was previously approved for the site in 2023. Outdoor storage is an accessory to the office and industrial building. Um and the property is 103 acres in size and um contains a site for an office and industrial building and then also the 10 acres of outdoor storage. We based our review on section 2.7 of the zoning or was set for six standards for the planning commission to consider in evaluating a special land use. Criteria one has four um considerations. 1A the intensity and scale of the use in comparison to the surrounding uses and conditions. So again the site currently contains almost a 300,000 square foot office and industrial building and 10 acres of outdoor storage. The site is zoned or industrial and then the surrounding uh sites are also zoned industrial except for the south to the site which is in the technology and research district. And the future land use map also classifies these properties as light industrial except for the property to the south which is technology and research and development. We do find that the proposed outdoor storage is appropriate in terms of intensity and scale to the area. Again, adjacent properties are all zone for industrial uses um except for the southern boundary are zone for technology and research. Um and the adjacent parcels in the industrial are industrial or they're vacant and undeveloped. The previous

approved site plan number 2416 for the existing building specifies that the eastern portion of the parcel will remain undeveloped in some areas to preserve the existing wetlands. Um and this application does identify the protected wedglands which show that it will not be encroached upon by this expansion. A new burm is also proposed along the eastern side of the storage area with landscape plantings to form a clear separation from the rest of the site. Uh due to the compatible adjacent uses, this expansion of outdoor storage is in harmony with the orderly development of all surrounding of all the surrounding sites. Consistent or criteria 1.b consistency with the use consistency consistency of the use with the master plan. Again the site designate is designated as light industrial on the future land use map and the proposed use is not in conflict conflict does not conflict with this designation consideration 1 C the impact of the use of natural features of the site. Again, um the eastern portion of the site has not been developed. Um contains mature trees and other vegetation and the site plan for the proposed outdoor storage lot includes a tree survey and clearly identifies the details of trees to be removed and provides adequate replacement trees. So per the tree survey which is on uh their documents or their page C3C3 and the landscaping plan LS1 uh this project will include the removal of two heritage trees with a total DBH of 49 in and 12 regulated non-heritage trees a total of 58 uh a total of 38 in at a replacement rate of 1 one for heritage trees and 1:4

for regulated ated nonheritage trees a total of 58.5 in um of DBH must be provided and the landscaping plan shows 18 proposed trees with a total of DBH of 59.5 and we find that these the replacement trees are sufficient uh consideration 1D the intent of the zoning district the purpose of the industrial district is to accommodate a mixture of industrial research wholesale and service uses uh the proposed outdoor storage will not be disruptive to the existing business park um to the south of the proposed site or the surrounding undeveloped land. Criteria two in regards to public health, safety, and welfare. It's not anticipated that the proposed use um it's anticipated that proposed use can be successfully constructed and operated to support the public health, safety, and welfare. It's not expected to be associated with any hazardous substances. Um and fire the fire department engineering review will be required during the site plan process. Criteria three uh in regards to being adequately served by public services and not impacting public services or facilities to the existing land uses in the area. Um the proposed use is a gravel lot used for outdoor storage of materials. There is no proposed usage of public services for the project. Criteria four in regards to vehicular circulation and traffic flow. Um the outdoor the proposed outdoor storage is located behind the existing building and will not directly access public streets. No additional traffic or circulation concerns are anticipated with this expansion. Criteria five. Um, in regards to the use being hazardous, it's not anticipated that the outdoor storage will be

hazardous to the site um or in conflict with the existing traffic pan pattern. And then criteria six in regards to site development standards of article 29 um compliance with the following use standards of section 19.2 must be met. So use standard A outdoor storage of of of combustible materials shall be prohibited and um storage of such materials shall be limited to an enclosed building with 4hour construction etc. It's not anticipated that rags, waste paper or combustible materials will be stored on site. U standard B outdoor storage is required to be enclosed with a 6 to 8 foot high obscuring wall or berm and set back from 20 ft from the street setback line. Um the plans do detail a 6 foot high screening BM which complies with the setback requirements and the plan also indicates that there's a 630 foot of exi f feet of existing chain link fence which will be relocated from the eastern edge of the 10 acre lot um to along the far edge of the new 5 acre lot. You standard C storage materials shall not be piled to a height of more than 8 ft. Um the height of the proposed store materials has not been identified. So we are requesting a condition of the applicant must provide written documentation that materials will not be stored or piled to a height of more than 8 ft. You standard D. A roadway shall be paved, graded, and maintained from the street to the rear of the property to permit free access to fire trucks at all times. A paved graded roadway connects the existing storage lot to Ridge Road and the extended storage area will be accessed through the existing lot. So we find the standard to be met. You standard E. Waste material shall be kept in a neatly stored container screen from

public view. No waste shall be piled on open ground. Uh sheet C1 states that no trash will be generated nor stored within the proposed outside store storage lot. So we find this standard to be met as well. Uh staff is recommending that the planning commission grant special land use approval for the additional 5 acres of the outdoor storage at 15,000 Ridge Road. Planning Commission number or I'm sorry, planning review number 2569 provided that the height of the store materials does not exceed 8 ft. That is my presentation. I'm happy to take any questions for staff and I do believe the applicant is here as well. applicant is here.

Yep. Do you have a presentation? No presentation. Oh, well, could you come up anyway because there's some questions. Yeah. Any question? Well, one question that I I gleam from the U planners report is the, you know, restriction on the height for the storage. And I see you're one of the things you plan on storing there are transformers. So, about how tall are the transformers? Uh the transformers are not over 8 feet tall. They I don't have the exact height, but I know that they are not over 8 feet tall. Okay. So, and you don't see any other material that would be back there that's more than 8 feet?

No. Reading the review, it just is some electrical equipment that won't be over 8t. Okay. And um so, Commissioner, do you have any questions on trees? because there's a couple heritage trees there that you might be concerned about. Not yet. Oh, okay. Not yet. Thank you for asking. All right. Anyone else have questions? I I have several. Sure. Um, do you own the entire 105 acre site there or is the part behind to the east of your storage lot, is that still part of MITC or somebody else?

I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question? Yeah. The U entire site of 10 uh 3 acres. Do you own that entire site or is the area east of your storage lot under somebody else's ownership? I'm going to have Joe Webb answer this one. Okay. Hello. Uh Joseph Web Web Engineering host the engineer record. Uh Halo Ridge Business Park LLC owns the entire 100 acres.

Okay. Um, and I presume from the Well, let me ask the next question. Um, I noticed that when you guys first came forward with your original storage site, you extended the road to the south along the entire almost entire border of that site. This time, you're not proposing to further extend the road east. Correct. And as you probably know and as the planning commission needs to know, the MITC uh material shows that road eventually u connecting to a easement that comes off of Anchor Court on the business park to the south.

We do have a master plan in the works that's it's gone through many many iterations, but we are eventually going to connect to the I apologize I forget the name of the court there. Yeah, we will be connecting to that. So, why aren't you putting in the road at this point? No, not at this time. If I answered, can you repeat your question? I apologize. Yeah, I just Why aren't you extending the road at this point?

Um, the thought process is is in the future when there if there's more cars, we plan on having those go through the um to the south and trucks will still stay on uh Ridge Road. I guess I'm not completely clear. So, what you said is your plan, your long-term plan does include extending that road. Yes. And connecting to the easement off of Anchor Court. Is that correct? Okay. So, you're not going to do it now, but you will do it at some point when they build a building to further to the east. Yes, they will be.

Okay. And then I guess the other question and this probably is a commission to the question of the commission as a whole but does this um formally rule out the use of that site for the PAL hydrogen plant that was proposed at some point? My understanding is they're not coming. So okay so this is not preventing some other plan. I'm sorry Bob that's not the N side I don't think. No isn't it fur a little further north. Yeah it's further north is it? Okay. All right I stand corrected. Okay, that's all my questions. Any other questions? I I did have a question. Go ahead.

Um as I look at the site, I just want to understand right between this 10acre storage lot that's here and the five that will you be able to drive internal between the two. We're going to the grading meetes meets right at the existing to the proposed.

Okay. So my my second question is to what chairperson Solski had to say is did I have a question? My answer is yeah, I I do. Right. We put a rectangle next to a rectangle. Was there any way, right, either rotating the rectangle, right, to save those heritage trees or changing the shape to a box, right? I could not determine where those two heritage trees were. You can see there's a ton of trees there, right? And we're just getting into it the way the the that wall is, right? But I just want to know, is there any way possible to avoid two heritage trees? That's the question. And couple to that question, do you know what kind of trees they are?

It should be noted on the 3.0. [Applause] I couldn't [Applause] get my reading glasses on. or I know how that it's on page um C3.0 of the site plan and I I the way I read Oh, okay. There they are. The H column. Yeah, the 32.

It looks like um a straight edge to draw across here. Let's see. Looks like it might be a basswood and a a burr oak. I'm reading this correctly. Tree number 573 and 577. I couldn't find them on the survey either. So, thank you for the one is a burr oak. Yeah, I believe. It's kind of hard to I know that's why need a straight edge.

I look I just couldn't figure out which two it was or where the two were located which was the basis of my question. Okay, gentlemen know if I can take a look. Yeah, sure. I don't know. Number 574 is a basswood. Sorry, can you flip over? Sure. The number 577 is a burrow. So 575 577 they're right. So 74 and 77 in the middle. So it's possible if you took this and tilted it this way you'd miss both of them. That's above my pay grade. Okay. I'm just one more trying to ask the question. Is it possible? Right. So did he answer? So look at that.

Do you have an answer to that or No, you don't. I can't answer that question. Okay. Uh well, who can answer that question? It would have to be ownership. Okay. Well, he's with the general contractor. I'm the engineer. So, yeah, we're really concerned about the trees. And if if this is easily um modified, which I think it could be, uh I'd like to know why it couldn't be. If you We do have a lot of grading issues out there. I don't know how familiar you are with the site, but there's 40 plus foot. goes it drops

and to put this right next to the existing outside storage lot is the most practical for the current tenant. Well, is it uh is the tenant doing this lot or is the own owner of the the tenant is going through the owner to do the lot to do it? Um so, but the owner is paying for it indirectly. Yes. Okay. Well, perhaps there's a way to build an embankment wall around it or do something to try to preserve it. I can take a look at the grates, but again, I know that there's there's quite a lot of great fall through that area, existing grades.

Okay. Well, we could turn this over to the administrative review committee and and uh once you get your u you know answers formulated u and perhaps you can coordinate that with uh Laura and she'll pass it on to the committee and see what can be done. That makes all the sense in the world. I I think the commission would agree that we need to look take a little closer look at it to see if there is a a easy way to to try to save them. We can take a look at it, but again, I just want to make sure everyone's aware there's a lot of great differential out there. Well, maybe some of that could be done with a wall or

there is um looking at the map, it does appear that both of these are kind of in the center of the of the uh right in the center of the development here and right here. And you need to make the land flat effect more. Yeah. Yeah. So, could we make a recommendation? Is it right in the middle of a thing? I want to know like that one in that one. Right in the center. What is that? 8 854.

And then where is this other one? I'm looking at 854. I'm looking for the number up in here. Almost everything is just doing this to go this way. I was looking at the topographical map here. It's 857 to 868. So this is higher ground. Yeah. Right. And over here. So you have to push dirt from here to here. Is that what your plan is to take? Are you going to take Earth from the higher portion? More or less push it to the north. Push it to the other side. How many feet drop is that? Can you read it?

From 875 here down to here, this is like 860. So it's 15 feet in that direction. Yeah, I'm looking right at like right in here. It's like 865. So it's only a 10ft drop from here to here. So you drop quite a bit more going Yeah. this way. I don't know how what what would happen to the root structure though. That's the thing. Are you piling five foot of dirt around it then? Right. Would it be appropriate to recommend approval with a request that the administration committed this for a decision as to whether it's practical or not practical? If it's practical. Yeah.

I just want to note that that isn't a reasonable condition to add. What' you say? That's a reasonable condition to add to the recommendation. All right. Other questions or concerns from anyone other than other than the one we just discussed? Are we ready for a motion with the stipulation that that question be resolved by the administrative review committee? Laura, do you have a question? 574. Um 577 is a burr oak and 574 is a basswood. What kind? Basswood.

Basswood. B V B V B V B V B V B V B V B V B V B V B A S S W O D. Both trees show in good condition.

While we're talking about trees, a compliment is that I thought the landscaping as it currently exists is very well done. I I anticipate that. My landscape architect know that. Thank you. Uh I think once they mature a little bit more, it helps break up the mass of that building. Uh, so I think it uh it fits in well with that site. So just just keep after them because as we know some of them die and we just as they currently stand. So that's a key and we know that you already did one round of of refreshing. So just please keep an eye on it. Get the water in.

Are we ready? All right. I'll make a motion that we approve um public hearing public question. Public hearing. Oh. Oh. Okay. Is there a uh motion to open the public hearing at 7:19? I'll make the motion. Second move by Commissioner Ladawick and supported by Commissioner Pop to open the public hearing at 7:19. Anyone here wishes to speak to this application?

I'm making the check mark right now. I don't quite understand. It was made by Ladwick and supported by Cop Boyd. Oh, no. Me pop. Not boy. I I meant uh Pop. Yeah. With two two P's P. I put that in remember. Okay. I understand this is going to be for storage. I don't quite understand what is going to be stored. I heard the word transformers and I know that transformers in the past have had a lot of chemical issues for cancers like PCBs. I'd like to understand what exactly is being stored there.

It's electrical equipment cabling. Let me just hold on a minute and we'll ask that question your question. Okay. It's in the thing. Um, it's in here. I got to find it. Do you want to answer that after I sit down? Yeah. Yeah, we'll we'll answer that. That's fine. The other thing is um last week I spoke briefly with a couple commissioners about um instituting a tree bond. Now that we have some heritage trees here, we would certainly like to protect them. I'm just wondering if this is a good place to start that tree bond. Okay. Thank you. We'll

look into it. In that vein about the trees, I noticed that she stated, I'm sorry, I can't read your name from here. Hart.

Yes. She stated that this would be a reasonable ask. I think your mindset better be not that you get to ask. It's the difference between can I or may I. I think you can set boundaries like Dale just mentioned. And as I suggested before, there should be some mechanism, a bond, I'm not sure how that works, or a huge fine to put some teeth into it because like um Bill said at a former meeting, if you're cutting down really treasured old trees, you're responsible for that. You should have had teeth in it. It's not you can ask. It's this is our township. You're in charge. Do the right thing. That's my opinion. Thank you.

Do I need to sign this?

Anyone else? Okay. Is there a motion to close the public hearing at 7:22? I'll make a motion to close. Okay. Second. Moved by Commissioner Ladawick and supported by Commissioner Pop to close the public hearing at 7:22. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Motion carries.

Um I'm looking I I had it here before, but I'll What is the applicant here? Can you talk about what I just read it now? I can't find that piece of paper where you uh itemize what's going to be stored back there. The use right here. Oh, okay.

The use of the storage yard is to store electrical equipment including but not limited to transformers, telephone poles, and utility cables. Do you have any comment on on leakage from the transformers or any other hazardous things that might be I do know that transformers no longer have PCB oils in them. They more or less use a mineral oil which is it's not as it still has issues but nothing like PCBs. A follow-up question. Are you storing the same equipment here that you are in the It's the same equipment just more or less expanded. We've already approved it in a prior.

Yep. Okay. Mardar, do you know anything about a tree bond? Are we Is that That's not part of our ordinance. But the pen penalties for taking the tree down. I know they're light. Do you bond? Do you know what they might be? The penalties for taking down a tree. I don't know. I know there are penalties, but they're very light penalties. And that's some and that's something that would have to be addressed by the board of trustees. Yeah. Well, we plan on putting something like that in the U master plan, a recommendation that that they uh look at that and beef it up.

Okay. Uh are we all set up here? I think so. Okay. Is there a motion? All right. I make a motion that we approve uh PC number 2569 um uh special land use for outdoor storage um on 5 acres at 15,000 Ridge Road um provided the height of the store material does not exceed 8 ft and it is I don't know what the verb is administrator administr and and um preservation of the of the trees be um reviewed by the administrative review committee. Okay.

All right. 574 and 577. Yeah. Tree. Okay. Tree. Those two trees trees be put in that motion. Laura, the two tree numbers. If you put it in the motion. Okay. Um is there support? Support. Moved by Commissioner Pop and supported by Commissioner Poy to approve application 25169 special land use approval for 15,000 Ridge Road subject to set conditions. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed? Motion carries. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Continued success.

The trees are counting on you. I was looking for this. We got the same library.

Okay. Application 2568 the Alcar Wash tenative site plan um approval and M Hart your report. Thank you chair Mski. Good evening commissioners. Uh Liz Hart with McKenna. This is a tenative site plan request for a 16,420 ft car wash facility located on a vacant lot on a vacant 1.4 46 acre parcel lot off of 5mile road next to the future meer store. The property is zoned industrial district where car washes are permitted by special land use which you just approved. Um in reviewing the application we reviewed uh I think 11 different site requ site requirements. The first one being site design, zoning and use. Again, the property is zoned the industrial district and designated as light industrial in the master plan. Uh the site we do find that the site is appropriately sized and configured to accommodate this use. I will note that um just as the applicant said the site is oddly shaped which um might not be great for an industrial type use development or office use. It is it is an appropriate site for this type of commercial use and it also does have the commercial development around it as well that is similar uh site appearance and coordination. The site is located on five mile road with adequate setback and landscaping proposed on the front line to minimize visual and physical disruption. Um the facility scale and location are not expected to generate barriers to development of the surrounding vacant properties. Um

approximately 35,785 ft of the site is to be covered by imperous surface. That's about 56% of the site. And both the C2 which is the general commercial district and the existing um IND industrial district do not have standards for the maximum amount of imperous surface coverage. However, if there is an opportunity to reduce the impervious surface of the site closer to 50% which is what the C2 I'm sorry closer to 50% um is what we which is what the maximum lot coverage for the T and O districts that is recommended by staff. The building height is proposed to be 35 ft which is the maximum and it is um compliant with the lot dimension summaries and building dimension summaries. I will note the site plan does show a flag pole which does not meet the minimum front yard setback for flag poles which is 50 ft. Right now it's at 38.4. preservation of the site features. Um the plan does propose to remove 28 existing trees. A basic tree survey is shown on se sheet C7 which identifies which trees will be removed. However, additional information on types of trees and their size and condition are not provided. These additional details must be submitted by the applicant and identify if any quality trees could potentially be saved by minor changes to the layout of the development. And as noted before um the impervious service of 56% uh the applicant does uh the proposal does significantly increase the impervious service of 56% which we

uh recommend the uh reduction of that if possible to 50% and then the applicant does propose multiple storm catch basins where storm water runoff will be detained prior to leaving the site. impact on public services. Um the development proposes to tap into existing nearby utilities to serve the site. Um the proposed development will utilize heated concrete for a portion of the proposed pave service uh settling tanks and oil water separators. Again, the applicant proposes water management strategies and product specifications to preserve the environmental character of the surrounding land and mitigate some strain on public services. Um, public services including emergency response are not anticipated to be adversely affected by this development and the township fire marshall has approved the plans. Vehicular access and circulation access to the site is contained to the Meyer Drive which has been planned for this area specifically. Um there is no proposed access to the site from 5 Mile. The site contains 29 stacking spaces which complies with the ordinance and is not expected to generate overflow onto my onto the Meer Drive. Um and the site does have adequate internal circulation and driveway access to accommodate vehicles including emergency and service vehicles without creating new traffic impacts. However, the engineering department did uh request a traffic impact analysis. So that is required as a condition for the site plan. Pedestrian access and circulation. Right now, there is no pedestrian infrastructure proposed except for an internal path from the attendant booth to the car wash. Pedestrian infrastructure must be added to the revised site plan, which includes the continuation of the 8-ft pedestrian path

along 5m and a 5-ft sidewalk along the internal drive. Emergency access and vulnerability to ha hazards. Again, the township marshall has approved the plans and we refer to their letter. Landscaping screening and buffering. Um, the proposed landscaping and maintenance plan do not satisfy the ordinance requirements for appropriate natural screening and buffering. Due to the site's frontage on both 5mile and Meer Drive, additional frontage landscaping is necessary. Um, additionally, the size and location of planting islands must be clearly delineated on a revised site plan. Uh, so we are recommending that, uh, trees are along Meyer Drive to meet the tree frontage requirement, the streetard landscaping requirement. Um, that's unknown right now because we don't know the how long that frontage is. Um that's based on one tree for every 40 ft of frontage for the Meer Drive parking and loading. Um based on the submitted plans, the vacuum enclosure entrances and exits are sufficiently sized and arranged to accommodate the turning radi of large vehicles and trucks and the 29 stacking spaces meet the requirements of section 24.5. However, um car washes are required to have one parking space per employee. The applicant's narrative states that there will be three employees per site. However, there are no parking spaces on site on on the proposed site plan. So, the applicant must meet the parking space requirements for three on-site employees. Additionally, the architectural and engineering plans have a discrepancy between the number of parking spaces represented. So, we just want to make sure that is corrected on the updated plans. Building design and architecture.

The primary building materials consist of splitface concrete masonary units, mortar and brick. These meet the requirements of the minimum 75% of the building facade to consist of masonary products. However, they're not very decorative in nature. The building does not employ aluminum composite panels which are permitted in the industrial district. The building is proposed to be white and it's not consistent with the neutral colors of the other commercial establishments in the township and the proposed bright colors uh colors and stripes to ban the top of the building are minimal, but they also do stand out. So, it's recommended that the planning commission discuss the facade materials and color palette, provide direction to the applicant prior to the submission of the final building design. Exterior lighting. A phototric plan was submitted and is currently under review. Um, additional comments will be provided in the final review for the site plan. Accessory uses in buildings in business and industrial districts. The proposed 9 ftx 6 ft attendant booth does not conflict with the requirements of the industrial district. However, architectural details are required for all proposed attendance booth and other accessory structures, waste enclosures. Um the proposed waste enclosure on site is located at the southeast corner of the site and is proposed to be surrounded by 10 evergreen trees. Um per requirements of the industrial district, waste materials must be stored neatly in containers and screened for public view which we have a condition that details on the proposed enclosure materials must be submitted. and signage. There is a proposed monument sign on the plans located 20 feet from the setback along five mile road. The plan does suggest that sign is under the maximum height requirement of 8 ft. However, no formal signage plan

has been submitted. So, additional signage plans are required for approval, including the signable area and design components. Because there are a large number of outstanding items that require adjustments to comply with the zoning ordinance, staff is recommending that the planning commission postpone application 2568, the Alcar Wash site plan on 5 Mile Road to allow for the submission of a revised site plan that addresses the underlying items in this report, including any outstanding engineering items. And this recommendation is also contingent on the acceptance of the special land use approval, which you guys did approve. Um and we did not receive any public comment for this. Um that is my presentation. I'm happy to take questions for staff and again the applicant is here.

Okay. Thank you. We have our engineering report.

Yeah. Good evening. Um we have received the site plan for a car wash project u prepared by Stonefield Engineering and Design. Uh the following are our observations. Um the Agusen Meyer development is currently under construction and this project is proposed to connect to a Meyer project. Um coordination with the township and meer will be required. Uh the sanitary and shared driveway entrance by the Meyer development will be required to serve the car wash site. Um, we also would like to see a project narrative describing the nature of activity, operational function both on and off site and hours of operation. Um, for the water service, uh, it will be provided from the existing 12-in water man along the south side of five mile road. Uh, a domestic lead will be provided to serve the building. Um sanitary service will be provided from the future 8 in sanitary sewer along the south side of five mile road as 6 in lead will be provided to serve the building. Uh the sanitary sewer is been built by the meer site. Um storm water um will be collected by a single storm sewer collection system and discharged to an underground detention system on site. uh review and approval will be required from Wayne County Departments of Public Services to confirm the proposed underground detention basin and pre-treatment meet their current requirements and are acceptable as designed. There appears to be underground space available in the parking lot on site should the detention footprint is um be required to increase. Um during engineering review stage uh the existing topography near the southeast corner of the site will need to be investigated to determine whether tank flushing tank flushing runoff from

the existing water tower uh requires mitigation as part of the l car wash site improvements. Um on the traffic um the development is capable of generating 78 total trips 70% entering and 17% exiting when estimating and utilizing the Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation uh manual uh automatic car wash during the P PM peak hour between 400 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. Um well the typical IT recommend practices recommends a traffic impact assessment uh which focuses on the side access points uh sping the decker is recommending a traffic impact study including the east meer drive and five mile road intersection and east meer drive and the driveway entrance to the proposed development. Uh with the Meer development still under construction, data from the Meer TIS data uh dated June 2023 should be used for the uh traffic impact study. Uh given the comments noted in our report, uh we're recommending tentative site plan approval uh with items to be addressed before final site approval. Um thank you and happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. And we've received the uh report from the township fire department. They have no um no deficiencies were found from a public safety perspective. Any applicant is here ready to address any of these concerns. Again, Mitch Harvey with Stonefield Engineering. I don't have anything to add from a a site layout and design standpoint. I think um we're agreeable with both review letters. Um they seem reasonable. I do want to um just to touch on the facade. I would like to call up uh Mr. Jeff Clatt with career architects kind of talk through the building uh explain some of the materials and that kind of thing. And then after that just happy to answer any site plan related questions.

Can you bring this up a little closer because it's hard for us at this end to see it and then we can turn it around for the public to see. This is [Applause]

We do have some other images here we can show. Oh, good. Thanks. And these colors are representative of what you're planning on constructing at this point.

Uh yes, our current goals. So So again, thank you for your time. I'm Jeff Clatt with Creger Clat Architects as Mitch mentioned and as you may be aware uh Elcarwash shows and operates numerous facilities across Florida now Michigan and Illinois as well and the dominant material in the majority of their buildings is really a very crisp white stuckle material pretty common in Florida and uh pretty common to their brand too. So after a quick review of the ordinance we found out that there's going to be some deviations required here as masonry is the dominant material and also a covering for the for the vacuum area as well too. So instead of looking at that as a negative, our team really embraced it. So I think it led to a better building, a more beautiful building, and one that's more consistent with our future neighbors and our current neighbors, too. So from a I can go up there and point to it if that helps.

Yeah. But there's also a couple of metrics that were pointed out in the staff report. Uh those relate to texture, scale, mass, proportion, materials, and color. And all those are key objectives in the zoning ordinance. And we feel that we comply with with with all those metrics too. Um when it comes to mass and proportion that's pretty evident in the floor plan. If I can step up here. Yeah. I don't have the microphone. If I can step up. Yeah.

When we look at this forward area, our goal is to break up the mass of the building to reduce. As you can see, this is the primary tunnel, the car wash tunnel, and this is our equipment area uh office area. And this area right here would be the enclosed vacuum piece, you know, clad in glass. So, what we're doing is we're breaking up the bulk of the building by pushing that area back. You know, from a scale standpoint, we're adding a little bit of verticality to the building with the two towers, which is really a staple of their of their branding, but it's in a tasteful way, and it's also a pretty minimal component of the overall volume. So, again, from that standpoint, it reflects the ordinance objectives in my opinion. Um, when it comes to some of the other objectives that I mentioned, uh, scale, texture, materials, and colors, that's really with the material pallet that we're proposing. So, when it comes to scale, we're looking at, as you can see next to Mitch right there, we have two, we have brick, which is a very smaller scale component. And if you compare that against the masonry, the splitface masonry, that's a little bit larger. So those two play together, the smaller texture, the larger texture. The brick has a very smooth finish to it. Uh the masonry is more of a split face texture. So we're kind of playing against those two, a smooth and a split face. So I think it adds a lot of visual interest to the building and a lot of depth, too. Um as you can see on these on these renderings here too, maybe this one might be better. We're also breaking up the overall length of the building too. So you can see this the overall the dominant color is the white the white. And then we have a nice rhythm along with the building of the darker gray color. So it helps to break that up, breaks up the length of the building. Then there's key accents to some of the aluminum or some of the metal around the building. As you can see at the very top here, just simple access to when it comes to the vacuum area, there's a requirement to cover those. So instead of looking at that as a a simple low slung inexpensive structure that's

dark and and dreary, you know, we like to do something beautiful. So it's really a full glass enclosure. Brings a lot of daylight into the space. Makes it, you know, beautiful for our guests in the community that I'll use that space. So lets views in, views out, and it's a nice design element, too. But again, it has some height, but it's step back from the main road to kind of break up that visual massing. Then the last component is really just the accent striping, and that kind of helps to it's like belt and suspenders around the building. It helps to tie those two masses together, and it's part of the corporate uh branding, but again, it's in a very small small sense. So that's really it. So, if you have any questions about the materials we're proposing, again, all high-end, timeless products, uh, it's all brick and masonry for the most part with some simple metal accents, and we feel it, uh, it it'll complement the again the the Meyer gas station and some of the other buildings that have been built around town on FiveM there. Uh, very simplistic, modern forms, clean lines. I think it'll be a beautiful addition to the streetscape. And you mentioned speckle, but that's just plain white brick or

I can bring it up here, too. And I also have the color of the That's the beauty of brick today. There's so many different varieties versus just the reds and browns. Yeah. And this does have a warm feel to it. It's this more of a product. So, it's very smooth. It's just Yeah. white. Yep. And we can also look at the mortar colors, too. We can try to match these. This is shown as a plain mortar. Sorry, I can that's fine. And this is a this is a split face material. So you see has more of a rockier texture to it. Y and it's bigger. Those are more 8 in 8 inch high where these are, you know, every three equals 8 in. So three of these would equal one of those blocks. So again, it's a nice plant texture color. The blocks are more on the bottom, right?

Correct. Yeah, I should have explained that. The block would be along the bottom of the building right here. So it's a firmer, heavier foundation building to support it. So I can put these brick is a very smooth not not much texture to it. Correct. Is that what you were referring to in your planners report or Yeah. What what isn't complying the color or something? The color the color the staff report just said it it's not matching what's existing the neutral colors of the area. It's white. Um if you consider that to not be neutral. Do you know what colors are going to be on the Meyer building? I do not.

I I do recall seeing a picture of one of your other car washes. Is white an element of the branding? Yeah, like I mentioned earlier that the majority of the buildings are are very white stuckco texture, very smooth. So, we're trying to honor that, but in a way that's compliant, we feel is compliant with the spirit of the ordinance and the and the local context. So, it plays off the white. This is a little bit warmer though in color. But again, the grays helps to provide a little bit of accent, a little bit of punch along the walls, too.

Well, in the local uh look of it, you you know, most of your uh facilities are in Florida and we're in a northern climate here. I'm not real sure about the white. It, you know, we have always try to get to more neutral tones, earth tones. You mean b like a light beige? Earth tones. Um, I saw a picture of one of your other facilities and when you were doing your other application and it did strike me that the white was I mean it wasn't called out to me in advance. I just looked at the picture and said, "Boy, that white is really bright."

So, I'm kind of thinking that the planner is raising a, you know, an issue. I mean, this is it's a really big building and it's really white and you're going to see it coming down FiveM Road and you know, you may be surprised. So, um but white's only part of it, right? Or no? Well, it's actually quite a bit of it. It's the primary color. Yeah. Um along the side you've got those really nice inset areas and I think that's great. But as you're driving down Five Mile Road, you're going to be seeing an image more like this one on the right. And it is, you know, you're going to see a lot of white.

Are you are you lighting that those towers up or building itself? There'll be some subtle accent lighting. It's not It's not intended not to be a beacon. It's not a Yeah, I'm thinking about Looks like an overhead on that on that tower that we see on this image. So, is is there going to be lighting on Yeah. Is there going to be lighting under there?

There might be some lighting a can lights up in the canopy, but it's not intended to be a beacon at night. Nothing like that. I mean, personally, I'm not crazy about the pink and the magenta either, but that is part of your corporate branding, and I understand why you would want to hold that. I I just as a from an architectural point of view, I'd like to know, are there any other whites that you could come up with which aren't just quite as brilliant white and maybe toned down just a tad along the lines of what the planner said. So, from my perspective, that's something I'd like to ask you guys to look at. Yeah, I think they're too explore options for the break.

But white goes along with clean. I I I get why they want white, but yeah, it's it sticks out. Yeah. Yeah, I I do too, but you know, I mean, I think the I think we have to listen to what the planning department is saying and at least investigate options. I mean, I I'm I'm big on corporate branding, so I understand why you want to do that, but there's degrees of,

you know, tweaking that might be able to you you might want to bring bring in some photos of some of your other actual facilities that we could color photos that we could look at. Maybe maybe other people wouldn't have that. Maybe the rest of you guys wouldn't have that reaction I did when I saw them. Can we pull them up now on the computer? Bring them up. Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry.

I mean, if if we're taking the recommendation that we uh table this for the moment, that's something we should ask for when we do the next review. We don't have there's I think I drove I visited a more facility which recently opened today and same thing is adjacent to a facility that's now wire and it fits in well in my opinion there that one again is more of the the very pure white stuckle building and I went there for the sole purpose of taking pictures of the vacuum canopies attended booth and we do have that information we can share with you I know that was a request so if you'd like us if I can pass that out it's it's in a handout and what Other states are you in? I know Florida is your primary home.

In Michigan right now, I believe we looking at 20 plus locations. We have four that are through there in operation, four under construction, and then 14 more that I believe are in the planning and design phase in Illinois. We're also looking at location as well too. Do they all look like this? Uh they all they all vary to some degree either based on township requirements, ordinance requirements, but I think it's safe to say the majority are material. The majority are in Florida. If I could pass this along, this is just the the attendant group from the vacuum canopies. I know we were short on our application that information. So, I wanted to share that with you to make sure that you understand the proposing there.

Yeah. If you could re-examine the the color scheme, it' be interesting to see some of your other facilities and uh particularly that may not have that. I would call them optic white. I believe he's used that same material in Stone Heights. Yeah, we can take photographs of that. It was one of your two facilities that I saw the picture of. I think it was one of Warren, but I'm not sure. Are these on uh these happen to be on your website? The pictures of the facilities. If if I may. Yeah. Ste Steven Barri Elcar Wash. Um

yes, there's there's photos of the facilities on the website and we can happily provide them as well. Um, and to to additionally mention regarding the bright white color, we've um we've looked at other options and as Jeff mentioned, our Sterling Heights location uh at the 16 mile in Dwinder on the path of the Lowe's and Target, we are uh opening up there and soon to be two weeks. Uh so the building is building is fully up. Um and that has more of a I want to say a gray tone to it. So, we are not um we're not I don't I don't I can't commit to anything at the moment, but we are not opposed to relooking at the colors at this location and um you know, hear the concerns regarding the bright white. It's it's not something that we've uh shied away from previously. We're we're open to changing.

Okay, good to hear. Thank you. Um, and you're will you be providing us a tree inventory? Pardon? Will you be providing us a tree inventory? Oh, sorry, Mitch. Do you want to address that? Yep. We'll be providing a detailed tree inventory. Okay. And do you think you can um decrease that uh impervious services by 6% to get it down to 50? I don't know what that might impact what you're doing with the vacuums, what decision you finally make with that. Yeah, 6% might be a little tough to get that all the way down to 50, but we can definitely dial it back and we'll do everything we can to get as close.

I was wondering with the elimination of the outside vacuums. Maybe that area could be Yeah. So, we'll eliminate some of those. Some of them are going to be needed for those employee spaces and then we'll see where we settle. It might be a little bit above 50, but we'll definitely dial it back. Okay. And you know the flag pole is not compliant. Yeah, we'll pull it back. Okay. Um, presuming that we vote to postpone the application, how much longer would you need to provide us with the information that's called out in the planners report?

I I think the the key thing will be the traffic impact study as to whether we need that to move on here. Um I know that it was a condition of the engineering review as well as an item that was brought up in the planning. Um I think we can utilize Meyer's design um from their traffic and back study and use their information and then we'll have to model it against what the car wash is contributing. Um besides that everything should be relatively quick I think. um taking another look at these elevations um you know be pretty quick to settle on a color and all the other stuff including the tree survey should be a monthish um so I'm hoping that hopefully that a traffic impact study could follow that that timeline

you have any estimate of what that would be because typically when we postpone something we add a a time period give us a month to get everything together so then two months from now planning commission would be ideal I assume is that Good with you, Stephen. We can we can do up to three months and whenever. Yeah, that would give us enough time. Yeah, I I think we'll be ahead of that, but that would give us plenty of time. Thank you. And you and you know the U traffic study comment in here? Yep. Okay. Yep. All right. You have a problem. Just And you have a you have no problem with the sidewalk? No. Okay, that's fine. Go ahead.

This this white color, it's probably due the fact you're headquartered in Miami where it's hot and everyone in Florida likes to use white roofs, white everything, right? To reflect, not absorb to reduce the electrical draw. We don't have this unload here. Okay. Nevertheless, going to an off-white or whatever white, right, gets us to something that's more consistent with the township, right? The look is absolutely the right call. So, this was the deferral delay is is great. Two months, I think, is good, too. Good catch. And you'll be working on the signage? Yes. Okay. All right. Any other questions from anybody?

Bless you. This I'm going back in my mind on the clock timing. Okay. Because the the one thing that's that's kind of inside that's got me a little bit uh concerned here is when Stephen mentioned the fact uh to answer our our very good attorney's question earlier about 45 minutes ago, right? Um that had a six-month deferral maximum. Okay. We were in here in March, right? So the clock will run out in less than 30 days. Yeah, it's in it's in the uh planners report. I don't know if they saw that.

So, I I'd want to get that one put to bed and back in here so we can, you know, focus on this two months from now. But, so I like the fact that if it's coming back in or not, maybe it just times out. I I don't know procedurally if if that's going to time out 6 months where it just goes away by itself regardless of what Steven told us of, you know, senior management want to have two in the township. So, um I think the applicant I think we agreed that the three-month postponement would be the best just to cover any last minute details. So, that would put it after the uh re contentious look here. Just give me a moment. I can see it in this room in there somewhere. I just now got to find it. If I may, um the the date is September 26th is my understanding and we've reached out to Laura Ha uh regarding an extension to that postponement as well while we work with Kevin, Mr. Bennett, um on the vacation of the consent judgment.

Okay. Yeah, I don't see it either. It's it's in there. somewhere because it's hard to find. Wow, that's Yeah, this is it right here. It's the last one on the first page. Planning Commission considered the application on April 16th and table the project for up to six months, but you already till till September 26, but you said you're going to ask for an extension on that. Correct. Yes, we're we're evaluating the options with Laura.

Oh, okay. All right, good. And then one other, when you do your tree survey, you've heard the discussion, we're really sensitive to trees, particularly heritage trees. So, if uh you find one in the way, see if you can work around it. We'll definitely try our best. Thanks. Hopefully, they're all invasives and we just take them all out. We'll see.

All right. Would I be remiss in stating with the timing of this proposal 3 months and a potential extension of the first one that's on the bottom of page one? Right? I I don't want to um grant one and then still have something hanging over our heads, right? I would rather get this clean, okay, with that first site, right? Decided and then come back to this one. Well, um, why don't we Well, let's let's, uh, I'll, you know, I'll raise it up with Laura, say what your concerns are. I think others may have that same concern. Do others have that same concern? Aren't these two separate things? They're two separate things. Can Can we do that? Uh,

I mean, Kevin, they're two separate applications, correct? So we shouldn't try to join them together in any way and approve one without the other or that would be a discretionary consideration the scheduling. Um you could do it either way. Obviously the other application is a little more involved from a legal standpoint. I'm my take is these are two separate these are two separate are separate fair enough I'm ready to make a motion we got a good legal guidance here okay

you guys are all good with it was worth exploring okay we're ready for a motion

okay um I move that the uh based on the number of outstanding items that require adjustments to comply with the township zoning ordinance as well as the issues we raised tonight. Um recommend that the we postpone application number 2568 L car wash site plan on five mile road for 3 months up to up to three months to allow for submission of a revised site plan that addresses the underlying items in this report including any outstanding engineering items. Second move by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to postpone application 2568. All in favor signify by saying I.

I. Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you for your time. Okay. Thank you. Look forward to seeing you back. Thank you. Thank you for all the excellent feedback. Sure. [Music] Okay, we have our monthly planning report. Are there any questions on the report? Couple business cards.

Bill, did you have anything on? I I just want Oh, go to my neighbor. What's going on with North? Oh god. Sarapin. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's my question too. Do you happen to know what's happening uh with Sarapin? They're on Northville Road by M14. I haven't been privy to an update as of recently. I do know they have until I think it says September 26th to Yeah, I saw that report. Yeah. Okay. Is that group home? They're continuing to work on So, but it's also No,

it's also indoors right now, so you don't see a lot that's going on, I think. Oh, okay. What group home? What are you talking about? There's a uh right two two doors down from me on Northell Road. Um the couple that came in here because they we did the R1 or R2 to R1. Yeah.

And they had a zoning opportunity with the garage. Um they told us at that point that and including the neighbors uh which I happen to be one um that they were making it their family home and turns out that it's part of a uh large uh larger scope than just them. It's they have several of these around and it's a u home that's take they take can take up per per ordinance uh up to six adults. Yeah. Wow. You never mentioned that, right? No. They were going to raise their

They're immediate They're immediate neighbors, not a happy camper. We're not either, but Wow. Yeah. And you said that they ended up cutting down a lot more trees. I don't think so. It happens. Okay. All right. All right. Any other questions or comments on the report? All right. And then the master plan, the master plan discussion. Did Laura leave you any comments to I just asked her if she wanted me to do anything. Pardon? I just asked her if she wanted me to say anything about it, but I haven't Oh, okay. gotten a response and I'm not

Yeah. Well, you talked, you know, these are the the uh sites that we had uh the steering committee had looked and uh one of the other things you have to decide on if we're going to when is our next work session meeting. So, the thought was that you can drive around the township and look at these sites, think about the sites, and then we can discuss in detail uh your reaction, what you feel about it. Um, so that's what we'll do. Did Laura talk talk to you at all about the work session, the dates?

No, I just from the last meeting we decided we would discuss it today. So, are we meeting tomorrow then or we're meeting tomorrow? We are. Okay. Yeah. But are we is it is it Well, it would be the Wednesday after uh Labor Day. So, that would be this group as a work session next next week. Next week. Next Wednesday. Yep. That would be the third. Mhm. So, are people available or I do we talked about it. So, I put it on my calendar. So, I think so. Otherwise, I think so.

We could do the sixth or any other date that you think you might want to meet. Third is yes. for me. Third is when I I mean that's when it was supposed to be originally originally. Right. And I I really like the idea of having an entire meeting just devoted to this subject because it's going to need a lot of discussion. Oh. Oh, for sure. For sure. I think we'll be perhaps meeting twice on it, maybe even three times depending on how involved these discussions become. So is next week talking about the individual, right? So, drive by and and look at them and

see what you think. Okay. Yep. And if you have questions, you can look at the existing future land use map that she gave you, but you can also go to the township website, look at the zoning map which tells you what it is today. And also, there's a land um a present land use map which tells you what's actually there. Mhm. So, those are the three you have to cross reference we put together to come up with the original list. Do they have like the big ones here? Cuz I printed mine out, but they're just I mean, you can't you got get like a magnifying glass. Yeah, we can get them printed in like 11 by7.

Yeah, I guess I could try to do that at work, too, though, to be honest. No, we should maybe you can ask Laura to have those larger maps uh at our next meeting distribute them out just because it is easier to see and we don't want them otherwise us nearsided guys are going to be like this. Yeah. Well, when it's too small, you need a magnifying glass. Yeah. I I I think I have one of the older ones that's still current. Uh but when I look on the website to make sure I have everything the latest, um I can just blow it up. It's easier to see on the computer where you can just blow it right up. Yeah. I was just thinking when I'm driving around it might Yeah, that's true.

Now, I'll try tomorrow to print it 11 by 17. I should be able to. If you need to, I can do that. Yeah, but I'll try first. Okay. I mean, Bob's your backup. Yeah. But yeah. Okay. Okay. I mean, that's just me. I prefer paper. It's simple. I could go do it right now. Oh, well, we'll wait. Yeah, I don't want to. I mean, I printed out on the little one. There's no reason why it shouldn't print out on the bigger one. Yeah, it should should fit fine. Okay. All right. Are we set for September 3rd? Everybody can be here. 6:30 again. 6:30. Okay. Okay, then. Yes.

Let Laura know. September 3rd. 6:30 here. Any commissioner comments? Yeah. Just a a question on this an exercise, too. These 13 sites are the 13 sites that um Laura and the subcommittee couldn't agree on or get. That's the one we wanted your input. Yeah. Okay. Where's the other ones? Like, weren't there like Yeah, there's 20 some Yeah. Yes. And those were ones where um a number of them were from the 2015 master plan that were recommended but never adopted for some reason.

Okay. uh some of them for from the 2021 master plan draft that was never adopted and then there were a couple of others but they were ones that we thought were very obvious what the answers would be. So we will need to review those with you just to make sure you're on board but the ones that require the discussion and some serious thought. Right. Right. Are these these are these are the more sticky sticky ones if you want to say more complex. There's supposed to be 13. We had there's 13. I thought somebody there's 20 21. No, there I think in the draft I did there were 28 27 or 28 and we'll share those remainder with you. But this is the hard part. Okay. Yeah.

The other cleanup like you're saying. Yeah, it's more clean up. Most of those were ones that were recommended in prior studies but for whatever reason they were not adopted. Oh, they've been looked at in the past, but there's never Yeah. incomplete work that wasn't finished. Sure. But but those, you know, we have a list of them. Yeah, you will have to look at them. But the we I think we need to do these first. One obvious one wasn't there a little strip of land along a recreation area. Yes, exactly. That was pretty That's an example. Little strip of land next to recreation. You know, that's kind of a no-brainer. just north of the uh the one we went to last time, the uh the summer school. Yeah. Yeah. Y the very new morning,

the one on Hagerty. Yeah. Mhm. There's a by the soccer field. Yeah. It's the remaining part of the soccer field that was north of that site, north of the school. So, it had been recommended to change the zoning, but there was never done. So, the township owns it effectively. That piece of land is part of the soccer park. Lake League point. Well, yeah. Stuff like that. I mean, yeah. I mean, it's it's really grimble, but you really need to clean it up. Yeah. So, it's still kind of a little That's fine. Yeah. It has been discussed in the past, but

for whatever, you know, this thing kept getting delayed and so it's kind of a leftover. I mean, there's a strip, no man names land between the bank and the apartments on North Territorial. Oh, yeah. I've noticed that. There's a part not ever cut. So, say it's like 20 25 ft wide. It's kind Start cutting it and you can take an adverse I was going to think about that to be honest. Just think of all the neat things you can do with that 25. Drive my riding mower over there, sir. Well, here comes Laura. Just in the nick of time, I think we're settled on September 3rd for our next work session if that works for you. Okay. I do have some additional master plan.

Okay. Documents to share with you if you have just a minute. Yeah. Yeah. We were just going over this a little bit, not in detail, but just explaining it. Okay. Uh I did make some copies of the the future land use map, too, just in case. talking about this. We were Yeah. Do you think we could get bigger? Oh, a bigger one. Okay. Yeah, we can work on that. Then the first exercise.

This is an example. It's just to illustrate what we should be looking for. doesn't have any rules. Do or do they

are they have rules? Okay. So, what I just passed out are pages, a couple pages from the Canton Township master plan. And the reason that I shared them with you is just to provide an example. I'm not um implying that any of this language is right for Puma Township, but uh in in the exercise one handout that you have where it has the current future land use like statements and descriptions, you can see that it's pretty it's pretty short. It's pretty limited, right? Which sometimes can be uh a good thing, right? um to be succinct, but there's not much detail as to what this really looks like. So having uh maybe a clearer picture in talking about land uses um design, connectivity like the Canton example can help paint a better picture for the developer and the community as to what is expected um and desired uh in in those areas in the future.

Is is this similar to the design standards for the Ann Arbor Road corridor that we looked at? That that's closer. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. So, I think when when going through this exercise one and thinking about the different uses that you'd like to see in each in each district or future land use classification and what design um and like character each of the future land use categories have uh that's really important if we can articulate that. So, I think just using the Canton example um to kind of get you thinking in that mindset and brainstorming might be helpful. Other communities um are doing this too. They're really putting a lot more emphasis on the future land use designations and describing what that looks like in the future and using graphics. Um, I'm not saying these graphics would be appropriate for the township, but a lot can be said with a photo. Um, or, you know, a render

thousand words. So, the the four pages that I just printed off as examples. Um, there's two commercial districts, the community commercial and then the general commercial to kind of highlight the difference of what's regional and what's more local. And then with the industrial land uses differentiating between the light industrial and the heavy industrial, the general industrial. Um, so maybe that just provides a little bit of of context. That's where I see the township's master plan needing to go in that direction to be more uh specific.

Yeah, I I read through this today and I I didn't really get the difference between regional and local. Um, it really wasn't. Um what is how do you describe the difference between those? Typically local is more uh neighborhood serving commercial. It's going to be smaller square um term smaller buildings in terms of the square footage maybe 5,000 or less. Whereas regional commercial contains more of the drive-thru uses, big box stores, chains, um something people would travel from outside the community to come to. Not like a Taco Bell. A Taco Bell would be regional. It's regional.

Really? Yeah. The local commercial um would be smaller scale shops. Picnic Basket is one. And uh over where you remember Gino's Pizza on Ann Arbor Trail near the Miller family? That's also C1. That's local, you know. Okay. Or the the coffee and cuts um place on Ann Arbor Trail. things that um have a much smaller footprint, generate less traffic, um an overall volume, are less intensive uses, don't have as many employees, that kind of thing. Okay. Meant for the people that live around there. Mhm. Yeah. Like a nail salon. Yeah.

But a nail salon would be regional cuz that draws from outside area. Oh, all right. Well, yeah. Then local is pretty specific. My wife drives to Farmington Hills to get her nails done. Okay. Well, that's a bad example. I get mine done. [Laughter] Okay. Anything else? Oh god. Okay. And then um I understand there were some questions about the the Meyer development, so I just quickly printed off.

Yeah. just when we were looking at the car wash, you know, how does that fit in with uh like next door? What's that? We have no idea what next door looks like. Yeah, there's just two copies there. If you wanted to kind of briefly look at and that was a result of the consent judgment gray, I guess, beige or like a Yeah, just generic. I was more concerned about the color. Yeah. Something. Well, they have a big white sign where it says Meyers. They do. Yeah. Meer. No. Meer. I know. No S. No S.

But that I think that's an anomaly, right? Compared to the other buildings that the planning commission has reviewed. So, just for some context. Well, you know, you can see the white. I mean, CVS always wanted a white background because they like that red color pop out. Mhm. any comments on but I mean I could see how the how the car wash wouldn't want to match this cuz that looks slightly No, we're not suggesting that. Just looking how how does it flow with the rest of Yeah.

that corridor. The the picture I saw it was really pretty white. It was really brilliant. Yeah. No, it's done on purpose to steal. This is provided by somebody who had written this in opposition to the one on Ann Arbor Road. So, you know, maybe they played with their computer and tweaked the colors. You never know. But just looking at the picture, it really stood out to me as being um a real beacon and and really something that I don't think was in the context of the other type of developments along Ann Arbor Road. This is a slightly different scenario, but again, we just take a look at it.

That's fine. He said there's thousands of brick colors. So, yeah, I'm sure they have a slightly less We've always leaned toward more earthy tones, you know, subtle tones uh than particularly white. The grays were a pretty good color match, right? To from a not much contrast. The white was a stark contrast, so it was a great catch and find. I mean, he could still have some white somewhere, maybe, just not the whole thing. That's what they have here. Like like Yeah, kind of like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Even if you look at the CVS sign here, you know, the CVS on this corner, the background is not quite white. It's it's subtle because they CVS does want white background. Mhm. Okay. No, it sounded like they're open to changing it. Any Anything else from the commission or Laura? Liz, we're all set. Okay. No, we just have to drive around this this weekend. All right. So, is there a motion to adjourn the meeting at 8:21?

Mr. Chair, I move we adjourn at 8:21 p.m. Second. Move by Commissioner Boyd in supported by Commissioner P to adjourn at 8:21. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Motion carries. Ajourn