Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

[Music] Yeah. Can you also on the current project? Yeah, I was just going to do that. Yeah. The Plymouth Township Planning Commission meeting will come to order at 6:30. And if the secretary please call roll. Uh, Dennis Sabolski here. Tim Boyd here. Stuart Pop here. Bob Dorschitz here. Dan Callahan is excused. Okay. Bill I here. Dave Lawick here.

Okay. and the approval of this evening's agenda. There'll just be one small change. We will move the uh uh Plymouth Flex uh item which is 7A. Uh that'll be right after the discussion of uh the gray uh greenhouse. So with that change, is there a motion to approve the agenda as u modified? Mr. Chair, I move we approve the agenda as modified. support. Is there anyone in support? Moved by Commissioner Boyd and supported by Commissioner Pop to approve uh the modified agenda. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed? Motion carries.

And is there a motion to approve the minutes of June 18th? Uh Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to approve the um the planning commission meeting minutes of June 18th. support. Moved by Commissioner Pop and supported by Commissioner Boyd to approve the minutes of the June 18th meeting. And is there a motion to approve the minutes of the study session of July 2nd? I move to approve the minutes of the study session of July 2nd. There support. Support.

Moved by Commissioner Dorschitz and supported by Commissioner Boy to approve the July 2nd minutes. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Motion carries. Is there anyone here that wishes to comment on a non-aggenda item? Okay, moving on. Application 2564, the grace greenhouse conditional reszoning with a plan unit development option as an overlay. And Miss How your report.

Thank you. Good evening, commissioners. Laura How McKenna. The application before you is for 8820 Lily Road um commonly known as Graze Greenhouse. The property is 6 and 1/2 acres in total and consists of two separate parcels. Um the northern property is vacant and contains just a wooded area where the southern parcel contains the greenhouse as well as um the the farmhouse, the residence and uh an accessory barn structure. The applicant is before the commission tonight to ask for um uh two approvals. The first is a conditional resoning from the R2A multiple family residential district to the OS office service district. And that is a conditional resoning request where the applicant has voluntarily offered to develop the site under a planned unit development, a PUD, so that there is um a a larger degree of certainty as to what could be developed on the site in the future. So we'll start with the conditional reszoning. I'll go through that criteria and the recommendation and then we'll move into the PUB option since they are they are tied together. So for the conditional resoning wanted to just um start off by acknowledging that the way the township um zoning ordinance is written, the applicant could not propose a PU PUD today under the current zoning. So a PUD is not allowed when the underlying zoning is residential. So in order to even seek the planned unit development, it must first be reszoned um to uh office or commercial or industrial district. So the applicant has proposed the OAS office service district. Um,

I'm on page two of our report and here we note where the applicant has voluntarily offered conditions that are tied to this resoning. Um, these are noted in the applicant's letter and briefly include the following six conditions. The applicant will provide an enhanced buffering area and vegetation trees on the site, within the parking areas, and along the northern boundary to mitigate any potential impacts on the adjacent residential area. The applicant will restrict business hours of any on-site business to 11:00 p.m. closing time, so nothing can be open later than 11:00. The applicant is prohibiting any drive-through businesses or drive-through restaurants. So that would include um a fast food establishment or a drive-through coffee shop or a bank um with a tellers and ATMs, those uses are not permitted. The fourth condition is that the applicant um is states that other than the uses listed above and on our proposed site plan which is tied to the PUD um all the other principal permitted uses in the C2 commercial district will be restricted. uh condition offering number five regarding events. Um for any events that uh consist of over 150 50 people, a parking and shuttle plan will be coordinated with the township to mitigate um the parking of vehicles and surrounding businesses or neighborhoods. And um lastly, uh the applicant offers a light touch traffic study to be conducted by a local civil engineering firm. Um, one important detail to note at the bottom of page two is that if this property is not developed as a planned unit development in the future with with

the specific mix of uses that the applicant is proposing, the site would revert back to the R2A multiple family district. So is there is that catchall. On the third page of our review, we just outline the different steps in this process because there are two uh applications running concurrently. We have the conditional resoning in red that is this review. Um that's a recommendation by this body to the board of trustees. Simultaneously, the planned unit development um is running and we are at stage um uh 2I the PUB option which also requires a public hearing tonight and is a recommendation to the board of trustees. So I want to make it clear that this is not a site plan any specific uses, buildings, landscape plans that would come during the site development phase. This is just to secure the resoning and move to the board of trustees um with the understanding that there is also the PUB option tied to it. Moving into the conditional resoning review on page four, uh we lay out the six criteria um that the township must evaluate a resoning request against. The first criteria is will the proposed resoning be in accordance with the basic intent and purpose of the zoning ordinance. Um we lay out the different existing land uses, the different um zoning designations and the future land use designations of the current 2015 master plan. And as you can see from the table, this subject site is really surrounded by uh a range of uses. There's single family um to the west across Lily Road. There is single family and multifamily to the north. There are industrial and even

some heavier industrial directly to the east of the property. And then south in Canton Township, there is a mix of an industrial, commercial, and autooriented uses includ including a gas station as well as the Plymouth Canton airport. Um based on the context of that mix of uses at this intersection, um we find that the proposed resoning is consistent with the purpose and intent of the ordinance um as it furthers the purpose and intent statements actually of both the R2A multifamily um designation and the OS service designation. Both of these zoning districts are intended to provide a transitional area between residential uh uses and more intense uses but utilize different standards to do so. Uh we note that the applicant's proposed conditions that they are voluntarily offering um will help mitigate impacts of higher intensity development um and that additional community benefits are provided through uh this proposal as a PUB um as opposed to just conventional uh zoning and development. So we find that this standard is met. The second criteria is will the proposed um resoning further the comprehensive planning goals and policies of the township um and is it consistent with the future land use map of the master plan. Um so in our findings we note several goals first that are in the 2015 master plan that this project does further. Uh the first is goal A um guide the development of the township in a manner which will create preserve and enhance the positive living environment of the community. Um we note that this is achieved in a number of ways with this development including a mix of uses that is specifically intended to serve local

residents at a smaller scale. So this is not large scale commercial intro will introduce um a variety of housing types again at a smaller scale and will provide um substantial usable highquality open space. Uh the second goal we note that aligns with the master plan is goal C. Uh promote the existing positive image of the community and guide development in a manner which encou encourages a sense of order, identity and open space. Um and we note that the specific uses that the applicant has listed in their PUD um option and the additional outdoor spaces and buffering um supports this goal. Um we also note goal D of the master plan which is strive for a circulation system which will facilitate the smooth, safe and efficient flow of all users, vehicles um bicyclists and pedestrians. Um that this this development would um trigger improvements to the existing site access. Um it would improve circulation at the intersection of Joy and Lily um from a vehicular standpoint. Um and it will add sidewalks um along both frontages as this is a um a gap in that sidewalk network. Um so while we note that there are um several goals of the master plan that this proposal furthers um we do note that the it does not uh specifically align with the future land use map. Um the future land use map intends that uh this property be developed as multi multiple family. Um while there is a u uh element of multif family that is

proposed with this conditional resoning in the PUD um there are additional uh uses that are being proposed. So, it's not a strict um alignment. Uh but it does still support. The third criteria um is will the the zoning correct an equitable situation created by the zoning ordinance rather than merely grant special privileges. Um we we do not find that this uh request will grant any special privileges. The applicant is pursuing this development as required um in the adopted zoning code. So, they're not asking for any variances. Criteria four, will the amendment result in unlawful exclusionary zoning? Um, no. Uh, we the applicant is proposing a mix of uses on this site. Uh, criteria five, is the proposed zoning consistent with the zoning classifications of surrounding land uses? So, as we noted in uh criteria one with the table of surrounding uses, none of the adjacent properties are zoned the OS office service. Um, however, when you look at the zoning map, there are uh instances across the township where the OS district is located between the industrial district and the multifamily or single family districts um as a transition zone. And this is specifically one of the intents of the OS district is to serve as a buffer um to protect single family residential areas for more intense uses. Um so we find that that standard um can can be met with this development. Lastly, criteria six um can all the requirements in the proposed zoning classification meaning the OS um be complied with on the subject site? So we break this out into both the dimensional standards perspective and also the use.

So as far as dimensional standards um the the table there on page six um highlights that the the proposed use could comply with the OS um dimensional standards. Um so this is an indication that the applicant will not be creating a nonconformity um and may actually rectify some of the non-conformities on the site today. So as far as dimensional standards, we find that that is met and we'll talk a little bit more about those dimensional standards in the PUB review as well. And then as far as the proposed uses, um again as a voluntary condition, um the site will be developed um as a PUD um with a specific uh list of uses. Um and if it is not if the PUD is not approved um then the site would revert back to its original zoning multif family. Um in the applicant's uh PUD concept plan um they specify uh those uses um 1 through 7 as shown on the screen. So, this includes um the existing greenhouse. Um some additional square footage um for to add to the permanent greenhouse. Um an additional 5,000 square ft of event space um including potentially an additional farm shop. Um up to 28,000 ft of commercial uses. And that is limited to professional offices, restaurants, cafes, retail, brewery, distillery, exercise studio, hardware store, retail bakery, sauna, wellness spa, bodega, neighborhood general store. So again, none of the drive-through restaurants with fast food. Um, up to 18,000 square ft of residential. Um, this could take a

variety of forms, walk up, condo, apartment, or townhouse unit. up to three uh 3600 square feet of covered pavilion areas for events um or programming by the school district or the library and a minimum of an acre and a quarter um of open space that will be dedicated to native plantings, enjoyment of um the outdoor space and other green infrastructure like rain gardens. So what 1 through 7 um is stipulating is that these are the uses up to that amount of square feet that could be considered for this site. It's not locking specifically all of these uh uses in at those square footages. Those would be determined during the site development plan should the resoning the conditional resoning and the PUD option move to the next phase. These are um guidelines to which the developer cannot go over the square footage. Um so it it gives an idea of what could be developed on that site but the the actual buildings the type of buildings their square footages those would be developed in the next phase. Um it is too preliminary for that. And so based on you the limited amount of uses that the applicant is proposing uh we do find that this criteria can also be met. On page eight is our recommendation again as a conditional resoning. Um the planning commission is charged with holding the public hearing tonight and making a recommendation um either for approval or denial to the board of trustees. they are the ultimate deciders on a conditional resoning. Um there's also the option of of tableabling the application. Um our recommendation though um is that based on adherence to

the uh six criteria that the conditional resoning to the OS office service district um be recommended for approval to the board. Um and this is based on several findings of fact um that the proposal uh aligns with the intent of the zoning ordinance. Um it still protects the public health, safety and welfare. Um the applicant has placed a number of voluntary conditions um on the property and development to further this intent. The proposed uh resoning is consistent with the goals and objectives of the 2015 master plan. The resoning does not grant the applicant any unfair advantage or special privileges. The proposed development will still be required to meet all applicable zoning design and site plan requirements for planned unit developments per the zoning code. The amendment does not result in unlawful exclusionary zoning. And the proposed resoning um will be consistent with the zoning classification of adjacent land as there are um again instances of the OAS office service district located in these transitional areas throughout the township. Um so there's a a development pattern that's already um prevalent. I'm happy to answer any questions on the conditional resoning first before we get into the planned unit development review if that would be helpful or I can move along to the PUD option review.

Well, let's see. Are there any questions from the commission on this part of the proposal? So, this is like two separate um votes effectively, right? Correct. This will require two separate motions. One for the conditional resoning and one for the PUD option. And they are uh tied tied together. Yeah. All right. Then I guess we could move on to the PUB part of this.

Okay. Thank you. Um our second uh report details the planned unit um development option. And on page two of our report, uh, we just kind of lay out in more detail the planned unit development process. This is a multi-step process. We're only at that first box, that first square, um, where it says PUB option. So, that is where the public hearing will be held tonight. And, uh, a recommendation to the board. The next step would be for the board to review the PUD option and either approve or deny um of the option which you can kind of think of as the concept. If that is approved then the applicant would need to submit for the development plan which is the actual site plan and that's where it comes back before the planning commission. That may take a meeting or two that along with the PUD contract are eventually referred to to the board of trustees who have the final approval on that. And then the applicant has one year to obtain building permits uh to to solidify the development. So this is at least a four-step process if not more. On page three uh we start our PUD option eligibility review. So this is governed um by article 23 of the zoning ordinance. Um and the um the PUB must meet eight eligibility criteria in order to be granted the option. So uh this review goes through those eight um eight criteria. The first is that it must conform to the spirit and intent of the PUD option which we have listed there in the first paragraph. The PUD is intended to permit flexibility in the regulation of land

development, encourage innovation in land use and variety in design, layout, and the type of structures constructed, achieve economy and efficiency in the use of land, natural resources, and the provision of public services and utilities. to encourage useful open space and pedestrian and non-vehicular interconnectivity and to provide a more desirable living environment with housing, employment, recreation and/or commercial opportunities particularly suited to the needs of the resident of the residents of the township of Plymouth. Um so we note that um the the goals for this property as described by the applicant further um the intent of the PUD. So the first goal is to preserve the greenhouse structure and its history. Um and the second goal is to use the greenhouse as the central fixture and create a vibrant um support network of commercial, residential and outdoor uses and spaces um that give sustainability to the entire property um but also becomes a destination um in the community. Uh we note that the proposed development as a PUD with this mix of uses would incorporate far fewer dwelling units than would otherwise be permitted on site within the current multif family zoning district. Um and instead it focuses on providing small-cale commercial spaces that would serve the new recreation and open spaces. Um the expanded planting area um uh would also support the existing greenhouse um and allowing this flexible range of uses um that the applicant has proposed um with the site improvements is really what the planned unit development is intended to um to produce. So we find that that criteria is is firmly met. The second criteria is to

create a benefit um to users of the development and to the community that would otherwise be unlikely um achieved without the PUB. Um we note that there are numerous benefits that this PUB brings. Um the first is the mix of land uses. Um the the mix of uh uses um will generate um we note traffic at different times of the day or week. So overall have less of an impact on the neighborhood than um developed as just multifamily developments. Um, in terms of environmental improvements, um, uh, an acre and a half minimum or an acre and a quarter, excuse me, minimum of the site would be dedicated to open space, um, including some in, um, green infrastructure elements, uh, which are not normally required under traditional zoning, um, and would would further the township's goal, uh, to protect the natural, um, environment. And uh lastly, we note that there are just sort of general site improvements that may potentially not be made um without uh this PUD option. Um I think it's also important to note here that the existing greenhouse and um the the barn are already uh non-conforming uses, right? the property is zoned multif family today yet those are not multif family uses yet they are still um able to operate in harmony um on the site. So this would be an extension of that um and it would also uh alleviate an existing non-conforming use um in the township.

So the PUD would would alleviate that. The third criteria um is that the um the site would contain either natural assets um or um uh I'm sorry natural assets that would otherwise be um eliminated uh without the use of a PUD. So, uh, the applicant has provided some information about the existing topography and, um, woodlands of the site. Um, we note that there really are are limited natural features. Um, there are some strains of trees, however, they don't appear to be quality and, um, there are some invasive species on the north side. So, it would be a benefit to um remove remove those um and plant quality trees that would contribute to the long-term environmental sustainability of the township. Um one important environmental distinction is regarding the land coverage. So in the conditional resoning review we briefly touched on the dimensional requirements and um this is this is tied to that. So in the multif family district the maximum land coverage for buildings is 30%. Um and with the applicant's proposal only 15 just over 15% of the land is proposed um for building. So, uh the applicant is proposing half of the amount of um land coverage that they would otherwise be allowed to um build upon under the conventional multif family zoning. Um so we note that this will provide additional um additional green space benefits that would

otherwise not be achievable. The fourth criteria is that the site um contains um natural or man-made features of significance which can be protected through incorporation into the PUB to minimize negative effects on adjacent properties. And this is um a very important criteria for this uh proposal um because this PUD option does preserve and enhance the existing historic man-made resource of Grace Greenhouse. Um as we just discussed, the greenhouse is currently non-conforming in that multif family zoning district and this PUB would allow the owner to further invest in the maintenance and enhancement of the existing structure. um and to ensure its um survivability uh moving forward. The fifth criteria is that the development be designed in harmony with the character of the immediate area um and support the stability of adjacent development in in the the general area. Um we find that uh the local mix of um uses that are proposed with this development and the limited residential um does um does lend itself to being compatible in this location. We talked a lot about the um transition of uses and this um furthers that. Um we note here and the applicant will discuss this um during their presentation but as part of this process uh the applicant held a community engagement event of their own um at Grace Greenhouse um to receive feedback and um there were a lot of positive

comments that resulted in that to to see the um the greenhouse remain um in terms of the building locations um kind of the the massing the bulk of the buildings and the height. Um we note that the layout and footprint of the buildings um creates a sense of a more organic distribution of site features. Um without the PUD, the planning commission may not have as much um control or influence um uh on the the placement and sighting of buildings um than they would under um this scenario. Um and included in that is that the mixeduse buildings that are proposed would not be greater than two stories in height. Um whereas the maximum height in the OS district and the multif family is two and a half stories. So this would actually be less intensive intrusive in terms of building height and massing um and reduce those sight lines. In terms of building design character um at this stage in the process the architecture the building plans um are not required. Um it's it's really too preliminary for that. That comes later with the site development plan. Um but the applicant um has provided some kind of um character um imagery um to give a sense of what development on that site um might look like. And as a PUD, the township has more of um an opportunity to work with the applicant on the design of those buildings and the architecture. Um lastly uh regarding stable development for this criteria um we

don't find that this would uh impact um the adjacent uses um as it still provides for that transition. Um the next criteria is that the use would not generate traffic that adversely impacts adjacent properties or creates conflicts with the normal traffic flow. Um and this includes pedestrians. um the applicant uh has offered as one of their conditions to provide a more comprehensive traffic study and that really would come later once the uses are concretely defined um and and proposed. Um however just based generally upon um what what they are intending to do um they anticipate that daily traffic of the site would be increased only by approximately 2%. So that would still need to be vetted, but at this time we don't have exact square footages. We don't have exact uses. Um so it's really hypothetical. Um what we do know is that as part of this development, the circulation of that intersection would greatly be improved. Currently the way the drive um approaches are located on Joy Road is um presents a dangerous situation. Um the new site entries um uh one on to Joy uh further from the intersection and another on Lily further north at the end of the property um would help break up anticipated traffic and create a safer environment. Um this aligns with the master plan objective to reduce the potential for vehicular conflicts by keeping the number of curb cuts along major thoroughares and collector roads to a minimum and encourage the use of shared access points. Um we also note that um pedestrian connections will be improved as part of this both internal and um internal to the site and along the perimeter to Joy

and Lily. Regarding parking, again, this is still conceptual. Um, but based on the potential square footages that the applicant has provided, um, 207 spaces would be required and the applicant is showing on their concept plan 221 spaces. So, there is and there's additional green space should that be necessary down the line um, to accommodate even additional parking. So there is the space to accommodate parking for for these uses. Um and again a parking study uh could be triggered um during the site development phase. Um the seventh criteria is that um the intensity of uses must must excuse me not be so that it would um generate noises, vibrations, odors, glare, reflection of light, heat um or other external effects which would um not be compatible with the existing land uses um surrounding the site. And based on the applicants limited uses that they are proposing on the site, we do not see a concern with any of these. Um at 6 and 12 acres of the site, it can be so designed um to minimize um disruption. And the last criteria um is in considering of an existing developed site, the PUD would facilitate redevelopment um for uh a property that may be aging, functionally obsolete, um or such that the commission finds that the redevelopment would create a substantial benefit to the township. And we note that um this is again a non-conforming use and structure um on

the property and that without additional support um uh on the site to uh maintain the historic greenhouse that uh the property may become functionally obsolete. Um so we feel as if this last criteria really is met. um because it allows the property owner to to bring in a greater range of uses and support um the operation of the historic greenhouse. Page 10 of our report details our recommendation. Again, this is a um a recommendation to the board of trustees who have the ultimate authority for the PUB option. Um we are recommending approval with uh several conditions um that are listed A through E. And following that um we list um four findings of fact that support this recommendation of approval um based on um compliance with those eight PUB option criteria. I'm happy to answer any questions about the PUD and the applicant also has a presentation this evening. Engineering has reviewed the PUD option um as well.

The applicant is here. Okay. If you want to step forward and give us your presentation. What do you mean by a crosswalk? Yeah. Not uh you're not talking about a a bridge, right? I guess I just walked over. I just put your name. Sure. There's four of us. Yeah.

Come on. I should have brought like a step stool just so I look you. If you can fine Yeah. Yeah. So, um I'm my name is Rachel Nish. Uh I am the current owner of Grace Greenhouse. Am I supposed to be addressing you guys or is that

this guy? Okay. Uh I'm Rachel Nish, current owner of um Grace Greenhouse. You want to just introduce? Yes, I'm Kyle Key Faber. Um I'm an architect. Uh I own my own business Faber Zo and am a Plymouth Township resident. Kristen Arthur is also interested in um the development of the property um sustaining the greenhouse. I'm a Plymouth Township resident, Mary Dyle. I'm Adam Hutenstein. I'm the owner of Michigan Natives, which is on the site currently. You see the plan? Um and this and this would be the new ownership group if all this so you you'd be partners in this venture.

Yeah. So, the um the four of us would become a new property group that would actually be purchasing the property from my LLC property um right now. Uh yeah. So, I just I I think um I mean Laura's everything Laura said was um you know, I don't want to I don't want to be repetitive here, but uh just really briefly, the the greenhouse property, it is about six and a half acres. Um and it has been um you know a part of Plymouth for a long long time. Uh, Alex Wnuk was the original uh, builder of the property. Uh, the greenhouse was built in 1928. Uh, he actually built the, um, barn in 1918 and the house in 1919. Uh, and his initials are on the chimney. That aw, if you, if you drive by. Um, so uh, and basically three generations of his family then, uh, owned the greenhouse. Alice is sitting I'm going to just do a call out. Uh, sitting in row number two over there. So, so Alex Hunuk was her grandfather. Um, and uh Alice's mom, Sylvia, who is widely known as Mrs. Gray, bought uh bought the business from her father in 1945, uh with her husband, Joe Gray. So, that's when it became Gay's Greenhouse. Um, so I um I grew up, you know, going to the greenhouse. It's been a special place for me, as it has been for many, many people. Um, and then I was lucky enough to convince Alice to let me uh hang around and work there for a few years before purchasing the business in 2019. Um, so I'm in year seven right now and um kind of have been just trying a lot of things to figure out how to kind of make it work financially and uh haven't really been able to figure that out on my own. Um, which is why I'm trying to rope these guys into it, too. Um but just kind of the the wise behind behind our plan a little bit. Um

is you know the first and foremost I'm here because I want the greenhouse to continue. Um I want the historic structures to stay. Um it is a community asset that people uh are it's important to a lot of people. Um, and I'm trying to figure out how to, uh, basically create additional revenue both to sustain the operation of the business, uh, but also to kind of proactively care for a collection of historic structures. Um, so like I said, these are structures that, you know, are are near, if not over 100 years old. Uh, and um, they they need more than just uh, you know, paying the bills. There's there's a lot of expenses beyond that. So, we're looking to to develop the property. um you know, not in the sense of a a traditional development, uh not as a a profit driven goal, uh but in the sense of building on the foundation of community and history, um and the love of nature that already exists and and really defines the space. Um so, you know, sure, it's it's hopefully not development in the the bad word development. It is development in terms of enhancing something that the community really loves and and appreciates.

I can stop rambling. No, that's great.

Um, I'll just talk about my why a little bit. Again, I'm an architect. Um, you know, when I founded my business, I it was it was to work on projects that enhance the community. So, I work on schools, I work on libraries, I work on community centers, small businesses, do historic preservation, and um you know, this was just kind of like one of those things that you don't expect it coming and it kind of like hits you in the face and it's like you look at it and you explore it and it's like you just can't stop thinking about it as an opportunity. Um, again, you know, we are Plymouth residents and we have two young kids and it the idea of in 3 years that everyone in this room has has gone here and experienced this um, you know, as it's been developed is is just really really a cool thought. And I do this, you know, I've probably spoken in like 12 15 of these in the last couple years, but not on this side. not on the side where like it it really really keeps me up at night thinking about this project and how much it really matters. Um and just how much time we've put in over the past few months, you know, to try and make this happen.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um yeah, I would just add, you know, my my main passion, I guess, would be the more so the land and the preservation of the property. Uh the greenhouse is super cool. the first time I ever visited here, met Rachel, like I had literal goosebumps that just how neat and unique this place is. So, uh, it's one of the three oldest green houses in Michigan that's still left, arguably the second oldest, which is pretty cool. There's one, I think, from the 1700s on Groil. Uh, so it's really a a neat almost hidden gem of a place for the township to have. I grew up in the west side of Michigan. There's a lot of u tourism and destinations and places that are similar to this and that they're a few acres. Uh people gather there, they do things, they slow down and do things that they don't normally do coming from the suburbs of Detroit or Chicago. Uh so kids can kind of run around. There's open space. There's green, you know, there's parks around. But this is a little uh more interesting, I think, what we're trying to propose where parents can have coffee while their kids are running around. Um we've got plants, we've got butterflies flittering around. It's kind of a an idealic type place at least in our mind. So, um yeah, just eager to get going and hope that it's uh you guys see it as an asset to the township as well.

Okay. Um, so, so, uh, I guess I guess it get sounds a little bit redundant now, but the goals for the property are are to create kind of a vibrant, um, kind of a vibrant, uh, support network for the greenhouse. So, like I said, I've I feel like I've kind of tried a a bunch of different avenues to generate enough revenue to sustain not only the building and a business, but also, you know, the people, myself, employees who work there. Um, and that's been a really challenging thing to do. And what I've kind of thought and and had conversations about for many years now is wouldn't it be cool if this was actually part of a campus of kind of compatible um like-minded but more just uh compatible supportive destinations. So it's not a tomato season destination which is you know kind of where we're at now. Uh and more of like a you know every week you stop there. Um, so I don't know if you guys are familiar over in an arbor like the Argus Farmtop kind of model, you know, someplace that's really local agriculture um, events, kind of a hub of activity that people stop by every morning for their coffee. Um, they stop by the bakery, they do their produce shopping there. Um, and it's not just like we love you guys so much, we love these tomatoes so much, we will see you in May. And it's um, it's just we need more traffic than that. So, uh, that that's been that's been the primary goal, um, for me anyway. And, um, and then also kind of as Kyle said too, just thinking about this as a as a destination for people who are, you know, not necessarily just coming for the greenhouse. Um, both in the Plymouth Township community, but also in surrounding communities. I mean, this, you know, there's nothing like this in Canton. There's nothing like this, you know, anywhere nearby. Um, and it really would kind of bring bring a lot of people to the area.

Yeah. I mean, I I can and this vision board is awesome.

Yeah. Um, you know, I was kind of speaking to like the opportunity that it can create and I think, you know, the vision really is to just create a lot of opportunities within the township. So there's again the opportunity to have a free place, a park essentially that people can come and run around and be without having to pay any money. Um there's the opportunity, you know, for kids and parents to like share moments and emotions there. There's an opportunity for, you know, husband and wife or, you know, two friends to open a coffee shop, open a bakery, um as part of as part of this larger plan. And I again I that's that's just what we are trying to create. Um and we have got a lot of support. Um we I I don't know the exact number of letters. I think it's like in the 30s. Um both from individuals and businesses and I don't know how many you know were sent directly in. Um but we presented a lot of these visions and vision board stuff at uh the community event that we had. And um you know again these plans which you have seen here and so just kind of illustrating that a little bit and and I think that there's a picture of my kids in the bottom lefth hand corner and I think that's like one of the most interesting ones because it's like this little tiny sandbox

and like they're both just like having a ball and like like every time you come in there there's kids at this little tiny sandbox like having a blast in the greenhouse and so like if we can expand that to be something that's an acre of just like fun, like picture what that does as an asset for for Plymouth Township. Um, and again, that's just kind of like echoing a lot of the sentiment for the people that were here that were supporting and just the neighbors and people that we've talked to um, you know, throughout this couple month journey of like coming up with all this and um, you know, working through it and getting it to this point right now. Um, again, this is just kind of like a report. I don't know if you have this or not. I We had this and I didn't I didn't think it was something that we should submit and then I I sent it to Laura um kind of recently, but this just kind of the idea of this being a community asset and community project. It it has to be communitydriven. And so that was a big piece of it. And just having that one event was not the only thing that we're going to do. So, like along the way as we, you know, develop what this plan's going to be, like we want the community's feedback on that. Um, and you know, we asked questions at at this thing to to get feedback that helped us get to hear and helped us steer a little bit even since the, you know, the the images and stuff that you've seen. Um, we've talked to, uh, again, different businesses, art foundations about doing programming. Uh we got a letter from the LI Plymouth District Library that they're interested if this goes through as another like extension of their programming that they can provide. Um which is also very interesting and like geographically um you know it kind of spreads out where the library is um over you know the large Plymouth District that they have. Um,

so yeah, I think we had 75ish people that showed up for this event, um, with like a twoe notice, which is pretty good. Um, you happen, you know, we're not going to be talking about site planning, but many people that come would like to visualize this a bit more. Do you happen to have the a slide of this sort of map type thing or did you already have Okay. Well, that's I I didn't know I know that Laura had kind of like gone through each of it and so I I don't if you want us to go through I'm more than happy to but I just didn't want to be like over redundant with it. So, right. Um I think it helps people conceptualize C

for sure. Um so this is this is just kind of like a 3D massing um kind of like elevated from the intersection of Joy Road and Lily Road. Um, let me see if I can find the green. So, the buildings that are in purple, um, the house in the corner, the existing house, the existing barn, and then the greenhouse, and then the boiler building that sits behind that. Those are the existing buildings. And as far as like how we are going to approach this project and oh, sorry. um the Tilly's Cutflower um which Carrie is here uh Lisa's space there and then Adam this is his business uh Michigan NC natives and so one of the basic site things that I think everyone notices that goes there is that just pulling into this if you're trying to turn a left like 50 ft from the stoplight is not very fun and so moving the the entrance down to the end of the site will allow a little bit more traffic and not back people up at the light um and force you kind of to like make a choice of going into the turn lane um you know to get through there. So the idea is that we would close that off and that this would become sort of like an event court area where a food truck could pull in there and you could have a small event um or food trucks could pull in there. Um you could have like a another small event where you're setting up tables out here and shade structure and you know a tent um that could hold you know 150 people and it just kind of is sort of a central element to these three existing buildings. Um, and then, you know, creating a larger restroom building as part of this barn. And then, you know, the farm shop that Rachel was just mentioning would be part of like the early phases of, you

know, developing another entity on the site that can bring in revenue and brings in foot traffic. And then also, you know, Adam, I don't we can speak to this if you want to, but you know, he's kind of got a plan for clearing out the the middle of the site with the invasive species and the tree of heaven and um buckthornne and all that. Um but that would kind of that would be where this is right here. And I can click it back to the beginning just to kind of like do a

Yeah, I'm a certified applicator. uh as is my partner Reed. Um so we were able to do commercial applications of it for invasive species. So we worked on tree oven in the past. It's a particularly nasty one. We've done some work at Miller Woods nearby. Um you it takes about a year, year and a half to remove. What's even more impactful on their studies um about the economic impact is they can spread a half a mile a mile underground. That's pretty amazing. And impact near nearby properties. Not to get too in the weeds, but they are step forward. Sorry. I'm sorry.

They're aliopathic, so they release chemicals that kill other plants around. So over time, if you neglect an area, uh, like this, the woods will basically turn into nothing but tree of heaven. So, uh, it's particularly nasty one that I'm sure is into the neighborhood to the west. It's probably to the neighborhood to the north and kind of spreads around and finds these places. So, there's some of the larger ones I've seen that have probably been there for, you know, 20 or 30 years. uh back in that area. So, while I have the mic, the only one other thing I would say is Kyle's drawing uh potentially under he had to kind of slice away that tree canopy and coverage to see the buildings. So, my first take even was like where did all the trees go? I think it's a more you know, you wouldn't be able to see it in the site plan from that angle. So I think that's one thing that's um you know had had to look this way so that you can see it but there'll be far far far more trees and actual you know meadow space than it looks like in the drawing. So

yeah and and I think that one of the distinctions you know I think was in the the report sorry um that was in the report was like that there there'd be a um acre and a quarter of open space and like that that was just what this area right here is. So there's far more like open space and landscape space that will be part of the property than just, you know, just this middle space. But that that's what that was to designate. And I realized that that probably wasn't quite specific enough. And it could have been designated better on this site plan as that's what we were intending. Um, but I think that like I would be surprised if if um, you know, we didn't have a good bit more than an acre and a quarter of open space and landscape space.

Well, we're going to be talking into into just a minute when we open up the public hearing. Okay. Thank you. Um, and as as part of developing this, you know, with the native planting and getting rid of the invasive species and, you know, having some sort of natural water feature that enhances a business that's already on the site. Like Adam does aquatic plants that clean the water. And so this sort of gives him another like, you know, advertising thing that helps, you know, again, augment a building that's currently on site. Um and then the Argus type farm stand farm shop again you know it enhances the greenhouse it enhances uh tillies flowers gives them another place and an avenue to sell those things. So we're trying to create like a a good robustness of the site where it's all working together. Um and then to the very north where the trees are currently where you know it is more wooded and covered. Um you know we would would be a place where we could add other commercial um and potentially residential units above and as town or town houses beside. And really that's just to help again generate this campus. And so they would be buildings that and tenants that we would seek out and find more than just advertise open build or we would definitely not spec build these without having a potential um you know tenant for these in place and and I guess that's another another reason is like okay for us to be able to make this site work um you know having the option of of having a residential component is another way to again gen generate the revenue that could help sustain the site. And so that could be something

where it's like we have people that are saying, "Hey, we want to live in these and we could build three units and then have the spec unit or, you know, the spec uh commercial space be below it." That's not ideal, but I think that in any development, you're trying to um you know, create a bunch of different avenues for success. And I think that that is the I mean that's that's the approach that we're taking to help ensure success in this development. Um trying to think if there's anything else that I missed. Yeah, I think I think we we could say it all again, but I feel like we've probably

what we'll do is we'll open I have to hear from the engineering report yet and then um We we'll ask the commissioners to see if they have questions for you and then we will open up the public hearing and and hear what other questions or concerns that the the public may have. Sure. So hang up there and we will uh open it up for commission comments, questions, concerns. I engineer report. We're going to get Well, you want to do it now or it's up to you?

Well, let's focus on what they just said and then we'll switch to engineering. Wait, tell tell me again about the residential. It's they're only above like a commercial space or what? In in this particular drawing that is the case. Okay. I I think written in there it it opens the avenue for like a town home.

Um and again that's just to like meet need. Um, I don't I think the being able to do something above a commercial space to me makes more sense for this site and would be more advantageous. Um but I know that like town homes are a very popular thing and I think last planning commission meeting um I came and you know PY was presenting you know different different housing choices and it's like that if that's what's being purchased in Plymouth you know it would be silly of us to to like go completely away from that and you know stray in a completely different direction. So at least that gives us an avenue to to deliver a product that people are wanting to buy. Not to say we're not to say we're building a bunch of fulty homes on the

No, definitely not. That's that wasn't the case. But it's, you know, just just trying to I don't know if hedge bets hedge our bets is the right term, but like um yeah, create create some balance on the site with that. But your intent is to make these mixed use, right? That's the intent.

Each of every one of these buildings will be a mixeduse building. Um not necessarily not not everyone. Um again I think within site planning approval for example like we could come and this could be all one building together. I don't think that would make sense from a a bunch of different building code reasons. But like these two buildings could be essentially together and um you could have six units and like a larger commercial space. Um, but I think like being able to have uh yeah, being able to have the mixed use just just creates a vibrancy. And I know mixed juice is a scary word, especially like I I've had so many mixeduse conversations and I've done so much more research just in conversations that I think we've had um or I've had with a few of you about that and I'm happy to go into some of that research. But um if done the right way and designed the right way, um it it's a tool and an avenue for growth. Uh you know, I I started my career in Nashville, Tennessee. I know Plymouth is not Nashville, but in the suburbs and surrounding the towns that were there grew because of really welldesigned mixed use. And I saw it firsthand and I got to work on it firsthand. And um you know, the the places that you all have mentioned to me about, you know, well, this this failed in this location, this failed in this location. Um you know, I could talk more about that if you want me to. Um, but I I think a lot of it is just in the planning and design stages. Um, and and not really strategically thinking that through.

Well, Kyle, the my my take is that you're looking at doing the south side of this first, correct? And leaving the north side. How far back are you going? What what's your initial thoughts? Are you going to the what you call that the Michigan or the walking path area or is it just the redoing the existing buildings? Um you're talking about like when we first start

um I think we we would definitely start doing some of the walking path area. Um and us ourselves, you know, with with the capital that we have is working on, you know, really sustaining the existing buildings. um there's a lot of work in fixing up that greenhouse um and you know the site work that's there and so if if somebody you know shows interest in you know doing one of the buildings on the north side because they hear about this project and the opportunity to be on the campus like we're not going to hold them back from doing that. Um you know we want that to happen but we're not going to like

actively push for doing that immediately. Okay. What about sustainability of you? You talked about the fact that it's not generating enough income to survive today, right? So, if you start investing in this property and you don't expand, don't have the real estate expan expansion on there, are you afraid that it's going to go away?

So, I think Okay. Um, so I think too in in that kind of what's now a south parcel, so basically walking path south, uh, I think there is still quite a lot of space and even quite a lot of structure that's being currently underused. So I think um, yes, kind of the the blue buildings are sort of still a little bit like foggy, you know, future and we want to find really intentional tenants for those spaces. um the Argus farmtop which we have to come up with a different name because it won't be Argus farm stop but um that's that's you know within year and a half I mean that's really one of the very first goals because I think that would be hugely beneficial for revenue and traffic and you know I think the current idea is to actually put that in the barn um and then with adding that green kind of restrooms uh some space to that so so that structure is already there definitely would need to be kind of fitted for that use. And then likewise in the house, um I think I and we are currently kind of like scoping out different possible tenants for that. So I think filling that with a really cool tenant like a really awesome, you know, coffee shop, bookshop, bakery, or um I have a secret wish for a hardware store, but that's who knows. Um that would help a lot. Right now the house is used uh kind of to support the business but it definitely has a lot more potential for a revenue source. Um so I think you know we really don't need to go much beyond the walking paths to make it a pretty vibrant space.

But you would do the parking lot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean to to whatever size it ends up being. Yes. The shifting the curb cut down would be huge because if you have like the the farm stop in the barn, you have the coffee shop in the house, and you have a pedestrian courtyard in between three historic buildings with picnic tables and lights. And I mean, that changes the space dramatically without actually adding up a lot of structure.

Okay. and and you know I kind of mentioned that that would be an event space but like we've we've really looked at trying to cater uh you know some specific things to like a if a business wants to have um you know like a foundation dinner or their Christmas party or something like that at this space in the greenhouse um you know that's also something that's being underutilized right now as a as a revenue generator. So, um,

um, Kyle, um, the blue buildings at the north, um, the I think as I mentioned to you, the the track record of mixed use of retail and commercial first floor in Southeast Michigan, certainly in a number of test cases have been pretty miserable. Um, can you provide us with examples of where that approach was actually successful? Perhaps not in southeast Michigan, but in some of the other areas where you have worked on these projects. So, because what you're really asking us to do is look at this, approve this entire um, piece of land and its entire use. So those blue buildings at the north really are something that we need to do due diligence in our end because if we look at the track record here, it's not that good

for sure. Um so is there something more that you could provide us? Um real world examples of where this type of approach on the blue buildings has been successful. Um yeah, I like Do you want me to do that right now or you is that something like homework per se? I can do both. I just I'm um it's probably homework, but could you just give us kind of a high level summary here? Something that could build confidence.

I mean, I I do think even in even in this area right now, I mean, downtown Plymouth has a good bit of that. I know the Mayflower building is one of those that is like kind of looked at as, oh, that's a failure. I mean, there's a Panera Bread in there, but like that that building was set up to be a residential building and the like the bottom floor, like the scale of it feels very residential. The windows are really tiny. You can't see what's in there. So, like you're not going to get any like actual retail tenants. You could get a a restaurant tenant like Panera Bread, but like if Panera Bread is moving out to a new location, my guess is it was too expensive for Panera Bread. And if it's too expensive for Panera Bread, like who's it not too expensive for? So like I don't I don't know that that's a case of of like that that that mixed use being wrong. I think it was just designed for the wrong uses and designed the wrong way. Um so I I worked on a project when I was in Nashville. It was a a developing neighborhood. Um I'm trying to remember how many units it was, but it was probably like um 12 or 15 units. They were they were like live work units. So um they were built in a way that whoever bought them could, you know, make the bottom floor like an additional bedroom or it was like a shop. So they could have a barber shop, they could have a um you know, a small business, an insurance business out of it. and it was situated on a corner and it was the first building in that um development. And now I mean that whole like 8 10 acre plot around it is like completely full of five six you know story buildings. That's not the that's not the goal here. But like it was

designed um it was designed well for the needs of that community. And I don't know I I like

downtown. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what I was going to like before I got in the Mayflower building. But like that whole downtown strip is exactly that. It's, you know, it's lower floor retail, upper floor, you know, residential and um where is that at? Just on Penman, like just in downtown Plymouth. Oh, you okay? You're talking like jump there. But um yeah, the Nashville location, it's Wedgewood, Houston is the neighborhood. Mhm.

Um you know again I can provide the homework for and show that hey this was the first building there and I can provide a today you know 8 years later what that looks like and you know again it was a catalyst for growth like that that one building spurred the rest of the development and the developers saw that as the as like the first piece which we're not even doing. We're building around a greenhouse. we're building around its own um you know we're working around an existing thing that is very vibrant and very um um loved in the community

which I do think is one area where your proposal is different than some of these other failed mixed use developments. So I think that's a really key point. Well and one

Yeah. Well, the um and the other one that I know is talked about a lot is Cherry Hill and I actually so my boss at that same firm in Nashville like worked very briefly on the Cherry Hill initial development and he kind of mentioned that there was he remembered there was some sort of uh tenant that was going to go in that corner building and then at the last second it it like sort of vaporized and they had to change their plan. And I found a an article that was saying that that was actually bushes that had said, "Hey, we're going to go in that that corner building." And at the last minute, cuz it was 2008, 2006, I I forget the date exactly, but you know, around the downturn of the economy and they had bushes got offered another location at half the cost. And so when that happens in a design process, um, and as a developer too, you're like, "Oh, shoot. I had bushes that was going to be this like amazing tenant and now who do we have? And you're scrambling to change the design of that building and like you can tell the design of that building like something's not great about it because it was kind of supposed to be a bushes and then now it's hey we're going to break it up and make a bunch of different tenants out of it. So again I think that's just a product of design and how that played out. And if something is also vacant for 2 years, you you're probably wondering like, well, why is it vacant for 2 years? Why do I want to be the person that goes in there?

Um, and it's at the end of that, you know, stretch of housing and development, whereas maybe that was in the middle of everything, the result might be a little bit different. I don't know. Um, again, that's just speculation and experience. And um you know I I don't it's easy to say this from this but like we wouldn't want to do this if I didn't if we didn't think it was going to be successful.

I think too I think one difference also that that Kyle touched on earlier is you know the plan is not to just build a bunch of empty buildings and put a bunch of big fore signs on the windows which is not the aesthetic anyone wants. And again, you know, as with Cherry Hill, once you kind of drive by this vacant storefront long enough, you don't really want to go rent it. Um, and it does sort of fuel fuel that problem, whereas these will sort of be developed in conjunction with a tenant that we think is a good fit. So, it's it's not going to be just the most, you know, generic

set of buildings that we see on every corner right now, um, sitting there empty. that nobody wants to. So the the tenants would lease the space from you guys. The residential is lease or buy or you or you don't

it could it could be both. I think it's I think it's set up to be in in both ways. And like I mean as you probably know too like it would be great for us to build it but we if we have you know somebody that comes in and says hey um you know Ace comes in and says hey we want to build a really cool hardware store um you know would you you know we would partner with them potentially. we would do residential and they would build the store or, you know, if it's just a a straight commercial building, like, you know, we would condo off that that piece and they could sign a 20-year lease to, you know, build that building and, you know, help again make the site more vibrant. So, I think there's a bunch of different ways that that could go. Um,

yeah. Have you reached out to any potential uh folks that might be interested in in leasing space? So, have you started that process?

Um, yeah. I mean, this is well sort of different. We we've definitely worked with um with Argus quite a bit. I mean, done the you know, their classes and whatever on kind of how to how to open those stores and so we I have relationships with them. Um, so that's helpful. That's not a tenant, but that that is helpful. Um, right now I am I am beginning the hounding process at uh Literati in Ann Arbor, which I think would be a really awesome Plymouth edition. Um, it was it's an awesome bookstore in downtown Arbor if you haven't been. Um, what are other ones?

Um, I mean Arbor Distillery showed interest. Yeah, Ann Arbor Distillery. Um I uh they they said, you know, they have one license available. They would love Plymouth. They've been looking at Plymouth for a long time. Um this would be a beyond cool space. But they basically, you know, when I called them, it was pre this. And I was like, do you do you want to be in the greenhouse? And they're like, we can't do that. Um so anyway, that was a little unrealistic, but but they they love the idea of being associated with the greenhouse and being on kind of a really a unique property

and and I do our al our intent also is because this is a community project and because like you know I think there's coffee shops in Plymouth that we really want to reach out to to you know do the coffee as part of like the farm stand um or you know own a coffee shop but I I think that like getting through this process and not makes it easier

it it makes it a lot easier when you have something tangible to say hey yeah there's there's m you know there's momentum on this but until we get through this process and you know if you guys vote on this and provide a recommendation the trustees do then we have a lot more momentum and the project's more tangible the conversation's better. Um and again like that's our two years down the line like hardcore focus while we work on you know the stuff that we really need to do. Um you have mentioned with infrastructure now you mentioned hardware stores. Have you looked at uh an operation similar to downtown Hardware in Ann Arbor?

Oh boy fancy. They are uh I haven't. I should talk to them. My love is Stadium Hardware, which god that is a good hardware store. Um, Downtown Home and Garden is more of a a retail kind of gift clothing shop. They have I mean they have great bulbs and they do have a lot of good and like bird seed so they do have that kind of farmy element. Um, which would be very cool. Um, another one I mean well clearly I spent a lot of time in Ann Arbor so I don't want to be overdoing that but um, well you live there. I do live there, but uh don't don't disclose anything confidential here.

Yeah. Yeah. My address is No. Um but but Stadium Hardware is an exceptional real hardware store. There's also Ace Barnes, which is um I don't know if you've been it's in the same kind of parking lot nearby. Those two together do kind of scratch that Downtown Home and Garden itch. Although Downtown Home and Garden is beautiful. Um I worked there for about a day. a coffee shop without a drive-thru is, you know, pretty limiting. Um, that was one of the reasons Panera left downtown Plymouth because they didn't have a drive-thru. Um, so that's something to keep in mind.

Yeah. I I think like again um I will go back to Argus again. Uh they they have a coffee shop. So their their model is that um they sell produce and other you know meats and all that kind of things from local farmers. Farmers get 70%. So, it's kind of a consignment model. The coffee and bakery, um, they run themselves, so they don't have a, you know, percentage. And they actually do twothirds of their revenue is just coffee. And, and they have the worst parking. I don't It's They have maybe three spaces of parking. It's It's pretty terrible. And it's a super vibrant coffee shop. I think we don't really want the drive-thru cars, pedestrian interference um, so much. We want a really walkable property. Um, so it's a little bit a little bit of a different model

and it's it you know it is more of a destination to come here but it's another reason to come to this destination if you have multiple things that you can do on one trip. Mhm. Um, and so that's that model works really well because, you know, it does it's not it's not solely solely reliant on just like non-stop um coffee traffic or uh drive-through traffic. Sorry. No such thing as coffee. But you were initially thinking of putting the coffee in in the house. I mean, we have we have talked about it at

I mean fine. I mean, I was just thinking if you're gonna park in the parking lot and walk to the house and walk back to your car. I Yeah. Oh, that it's that it's a that is a far away saying. That's not that's not but but All right. Yeah. No, no, it's okay. It's okay. It could be I mean it could be in that farm um excuse me, the Argist kind of barn extender building. Um that's fine. I was I was just throwing that out. Yeah. Yeah. I think the overarching word that's always in my mind is like a place to go slowly. Yeah. So if it's Tuesday morning and I'm late to work or I'm on my commute, you know, I'm going through a drive-thru on Hagerty.

If it's Saturday or it's Thursday afternoon and I have some time off and I'm, you know, going to slow drink it here, that's read a book, whatever. Yep, that makes sense. Are there any other We've never been big on convenience. It's not any other questions or concerns. Okay. Yeah. I I had a question on ownership in the ownership in the structure, Rachel. So, you're the present property owner of the 6.73 acres today?

So, no, I So, currently it's two parcels. I um am the property owner of the south parcel and actually my dad because he's just a nice dad owns the north parcel. So, when I bought Graze, I couldn't buy the whole thing. And it was, you know, I know we had been we uh the previous owners had been approached by developers um at that time too. And I think the concern was if we split this property and I can only buy the south, the greenhouse is going to be just backing up to condos. Um, and so my dad said, "Hey, I'll buy that parcel. I'll hang on to it." And the idea being that Grays would eventually buy it back.

I haven't been able to do that. So, um, now, you know, we're kind of in a good position where we can again re kind of unify it as a parcel, but separate owners, you know. And your dad still owns the the north part. Okay. And is Adam like a renter tenant? Adam leases. Yeah. Adam rents from me. So I have I have kind of like a like a business LLC and then the property LLC and Adam rents from their property. Okay. Now the four you guys together an entity but you're not a business yet because you haven't sub because we don't know if this is a go. But if it's a go, we will be an entity and then uh we will be purchasing the north parcel from my dad and then assuming that land contract. Okay. All right. That that helps me. I mean this is out of the box. It's creative, right? It's

something that uh I don't think is unique to anything other than maybe the Bill's Beer Garden Hardware store that's in Ann Arbor. It's the only mini campus that that I I've seen locally right in Southeast Michigan. Um all right. So that that helps answer the ownership structure part which is one of the questions I had. So thank you for being clear on that. Anyone else? And then we'll move on to engineering report and public hearing. Okay. All right. You let's move on. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Well, why don't you have a seat and we're going to ask the engineering to give her report. [Applause] I'll second.

Um good evening. Uh we received the preliminary PD option exhibit. um summar for the Greyer's greenhouse project uh prepared by the applicant and the following are our observations. Um a utility plan was not provided but there are existing utilities around the site to serve the proposed development. There is an existing 12-in diameter water man on the east side of Lily Road and on the north side of Joy Road. And there is an existing 12-in diameter sanitary sewer on the north side of Joy Road and on the west side of Lily Road. Uh storm water runoff is not addressed in the proposed site concept. Um a viable storm water management system shall be proposed during site plan review. The storm water storm water control system and outlet will require approval and a permit from Wayne County DPS. uh paving and circulation plan was not provided. Uh during site plan, a traffic circulation showing turning movements around the site and the full maneuvering movement entering and exiting Lily Road and Joy Road for emergency vehicles will be required. Uh the proposed development must dedicate the ultimate rideway 60oot rightway half width shall be dedicated to Joy Road and Leeling Road. the appropriate setbacks shall be provided or variances might be required. Um based on the availability of the existing utilities around the site uh it appears that the proposed development can be designed to meet the engineering requirements of the township. Uh therefore we we're recommending approval of the PUD option.

Okay. Well, thank you very much. So, um, we'll be opening up the public hearing in just a few moments. And I ask you that, uh, when you come forward, uh, I think there's a signup sheet at the podium to sign in with your name and address. Uh, you'll be limited to three minutes. We ask you to be clear, concise, cogent, and most important, civil. So, um, we will, uh, take a vote to see is there a motion to open the public hearing at 7:54. Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to open the public hearing. Okay.

Now, move by move by Commissioner uh, Iikes and you support and and supported by Commissioner Boyd to open the public hearing. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries. So, I'll ask the secretary. We did receive some letters. You want to just summarize that? Yes. Uh we received 17 letters and most if not all were quite positive. So um and no no letters in opposition. Is that correct? Yeah. No. Right. No.

How many were from within the community? Uh cuz I noticed that they were coming from like several of them came from far away. From my count, there were two that were from Canton. Uh there was one from Pikney and one from Ecourse. And so in the material that we received from the applicant, uh they do mention that this is not only a local draw, but also uh Southeast Michigan. So Canton is right next door. Um but there's still Pink Nia and Ecourse. And there might have been one with uh in Wayne, I think. Right. There was. Yeah. Did I answer your question? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Good. All right. Who wants to be first? Hi, my name is Paula Bowman. My husband and I, Gordon, own the property immediately to the north of this. We are the one lonely little house between Grace and that field and the apartments. Change is hard, but we've been living in this house for 50 years and not had any movement. So, I guess we feel we're kind of due. But I have three questions. on the online materials. There was a survey and as you know there is a right of way between our property and I believe that tree line to the far north and there's a um Oh, I can't look at it anymore.

Oh, hang on. I'll bring it up. There's a right of way and there is a uh utility pole there. I guess I want to make sure first that there can be no building on that right of way that that would just stay vacant. Where are you at? You're somewhere right around here. Yeah, there's a lot of trees there. You have to go real close, but you can see there's a house in there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we are. So there's a little See, you can see the kind of brownish grass there. That's a right ofway. And we want to make Okay, keep going to the right. A little more. A little more. Okay.

Just to the right of the fence is this strip of land. We still mow it cuz it looks nicer when we do, but I'd like to make sure that that is not part of the transaction or the sale and that there would be no building on that. Can you help me with that? We we'll ask that question.

Okay. Next question. Um, if the PUD is granted, what is the maximum number of residential units that can be built on the property? And the third question is, if the PUD is not granted and this was sold to a developer, I anticipate that the maximum number of residential units would be a whole lot higher. And I'm wondering what that number is. Okay. Okay. All right. Not sure we can give you a specific number, but we'll raise the issue up. Okay. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for coming.

Anyone else? Yes.

Whoever wants to come in the future can just form a line there if you want. Hi, I'm June Kutter and I live in the township at 46920 North Territorial. I want to take a few minutes today to talk about listening. We've had a lot of big projects come to our community without really any early input from our residents. As an alternative, the team behind proposed zoning change at Gray's Greenhouse has been carefully listening to what residents want by way of reading the township's master plan. Their project includes plans for considerable open space, enhancements of the historical graze site, and adaptive reuse of existing structures. All things listed in our master plan. Then the team went a step further and engaged the GRA community and area residents at an open house which I attended. I can report a true feeling of community and energetic support for the project, much like the letters that you've received. At the open house, the project team specifically asked attendees what they wanted to see in a community-based project focused on nature and businesses supporting nature. The Grace team listened to what the community had to say before even coming in front of our planning commission. A few years ago, the city of Plymouth

hosted the author of this book, 13 Ways to Kill the Community. I've read it. So should all of you, and so should all of our trustees. The Grace Project is an example of a way to avoid killing our community. which includes three relevant examples. They're one of three of the 13 in this book. Don't engage youth. Reject everything new and grow complacent. I don't want any of those things to happen to our community. Our master plan states that of the surrounding areas, city of Plymouth, Northwell Township, Canton Township, Plymouth Township has the oldest average age of residents, 45 1/2 years old. And that number is from 2018. I suspect we've continued to age since then um because back in 2020, the average age of a Plymouth Township resident was 39.8. The plans proposed for Grace are great ways to create some differences between our community and those around us. It's a creative way to engage residents of all ages. The idea of taking a yoga class or a meditation session at the greenhouse in the middle middle of February is really appealing to me as are a number of the other ideas they've proposed. and I'm older than that average age. So, it's time that our community stop saying yes to big box no taxpaying projects or racetracks and start saying yes to new and innovative ideas brought to us by our own residents who are actually listening.

Thank you. Hello everybody. My name is Wendy Harless and I'm here representing 8959 Lily Road which if you look at the map is right across the street from Gray's Greenhouse. Um, first I would like to thank everybody involved, Rachel, Adam, Kyle, Kristen for um coming to the community first for um for asking for community input. It's so refreshing to see, you know, a potential change. Like Paula said, change is not always easy. So, it's nice that they're looking for input from the people who live around that. So, thank you. I I commend you on that. Um, I wear many hats, but um, I'm also the chairperson of Plymouth Township's Historic District Commission, and I would like to say that I absolutely love that they are talking about keeping the historic structures. Um, you know, typically developers come in and they want to demolish absolutely everything and they call it the highest best use, which to me means I'm going to squeeze every nickel I can out of this property. Um, I don't think that is the approach here. I love that they're talking about taking things slowly, that they're talking about finding businesses that support that whole idea of Grace Greenhouse, which really is a special place. I have been shopping there since 1975 when I was 5 years old. I'm huge into gardening. I think everybody who knows me knows I love to garden. Um, so I love going there because it's refreshing. It's different. They carry a lot of different plants that you can't find anywhere else. It does have that

special sense of community. It's a very special place and I love that they're talking about building on that and having businesses that make sense. I love that they're talking about working with each individual business to build a space that's going to work for them but also work for the community. Um, so I I will say I'm cautiously optimistic. I think we need to keep coming together and having these meetings and u make sure that everything is carefully planned out so that we get exactly what this community deserves. Um so thank you very much for your time.

Thanks for coming in. Anyone else? Okay, then we Okay. Hi, I'm Sharon Phillips and I live on the smallest street in the township. It's 9060 Tucson Street and we're just um uh well adjacent to Wendy's property. Um and I just want to thank everybody too for being so open to community support and community input. That's that is so refreshing like Wendy said compared to what we've been through with other projects recently. Um, I just had a couple suggestions. I know the township lacks a little bit of recreation and if something could be put into there like I don't know, yoga. Um, I know you were talking about that. Um, little stores for kids to come for classes or or even adults. I think that would be really helpful. And another thing is uh yet when you're talking about the house, this just came to mind because yesterday I had the pleasure of going to Flywaf in Gross Point. I don't know if any of you have been there, but it's a combination bookstore cafe

and it is so unique. It's just it was just so awesome. our book club went there and I could see something like that going into the house. Um it it was just so unique and and so well attended and something that would be really special to have in this um township. Okay, that's all I wanted to say.

Oh, thanks for coming in. You're welcome. I'll feel rested at later. Hi there. Uh my name is Don Wakefield. I am the president of the Great Lakes Arts Foundation and uh we were recently made aware of the property and had a chance to meet them and look at their plan and uh we are just starting to talk about perhaps implementing some of the arts on the property maybe workshops and classes in uh sculpture in particular. It's part of our um mission is to promote the arts and to promote workshops for like stone, metal, wood, glass, and ceramics that could be implemented onto the property. And then so helping keep it self- sustaining with classes and workshops, maybe some special events throughout the year, holiday gettogethers and things like that. But uh like I say, nothing said yet, but we we like the people and we'll continue talking with them to see if there's something we can work out. I live in Canton, by the way. But most of our followers and our board, they're in Plymouth and and the surrounding area, you know.

Who did you who did you say you were with? I didn't hear. Oh, the Great Lakes Arts Foundation. Oh, okay. Thank you. Sure. That's it. But thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? Okay, last call. All right. Oh, there you go. Sure.

My name is Ken Phillips. I also live at 9060 Tucson Street. And today I was going out to do some work at a neighbor's house. And when I came off on River Avenue to Lily Road, I wanted to make a left-hand turn. According to my watch, it was 3 minutes and 52 seconds. That's a big concern. And school's not even in session. When school's in session, from my door in my house, I can look right at Lily Road and I see tons of traffic both ways. And now with all the roads and construction going on, it's always backed up. And I know when we have discussed Spar's greenhouse, a lot of our neighbors in that subdivision have said to you people that I can't make a left-hand turn. I have to make a right-hand turn, go to Joy Row, and go all the way to Main Street because it's such it's such a hindrance, I think, to a lot of us that live in that subdivision and probably people that are driving to and from different places. So, you know, I'd like to I'd like to see a traffic study done because when we discussed before about spars and the traffic situation, uh I can't remember how many of you people nor the trustees said, "Well, that's Wayne County. That's not Plymouth Township." Well, once you have about five accidents a day, I think it's going to be a big big concern. Thank you. I

I have one question. When you were waiting for making that left turn Yes. What time of the day was it? Uh, it was 8:35 in the morning. Okay. This morning. Still considered rush hour in my mind. Yes, it is. But wait till the school buses start. Right. It was um the last couple of days have been uh a nightmare along Ann Arbor by Li Lily because it it comes down to one lane because of the construction. Yes. And so it's going to be a problem for a while until I know. I know it is, but

this is last year and the year before and the year before that. I can sit in my family room and look out and I see traffic backed up at 9:00 in the morning and then about 3:00 cuz that is a bus route, especially on Lily Road. So, that's uh I'm concerned about Gray's Greenhouse and all that traffic. What are you people going to do about that? You're going to widen it, put four lanes and a middle turn lane in it, or are you just going to keep it the way it is? Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. I I have a comment on that that I'll I'll make in a few minutes because I had firsthand experience with that myself. Anyone else? Okay, then we're ready to

This gentleman wanted

Oh, I didn't see her. Oh, okay. Come on up. Okay, take your time. All right. [Music] that I didn't uh I didn't come here to to criticize the project that is we saw at the beginning. Um, but it seems to me that they gave no consideration to trees. And it seems to me that in Plymouth Township, we're losing trees, losing trees, losing trees. And and at some point, Plymouth Township's going to have no trees. It's going to be all businesses. and that those paths that they showed um that people will walk on a hot summer day, nobody's going to walk those stupid paths unless there are some trees and some some I mean I I go to parks for a walk to walk in trees and that was that that picture was sterile. There wasn't it wasn't any it was all buildings and flat land and and we have I think we have in Plymouth Township. I'm sort of new to to to uh township government, so I'm studying it at the moment. It seems to me we have don't we have a com committee, a tree committee?

There is an environmental leadership uh commission that really they they look at trees, but they look at all aspects of the environment.

I recently discovered this um tree ordinance I happen to have a copy here, but the part that struck me was um section 98.17 tree board. The township's environmental leadership commission is hereby designated as the Plymouth Township Treeboard in addition to the regulatory the regular statutory duties. The tree board shall be responsible for advising township on matters pertaining to the protection, preservation and reforestation of the township public and private tree canopy trees and woodlands.

Well, I I I'm not familiar with every aspect that the Environmental Leadership Commission does, but they I mean what you say is true. It's part of the the ordinance. So they are in existence. I'm not sure what their activity is toward it. Maybe m how do you know what they're doing as regarding their role as a tree board?

I think it's just looped into the larger umbrella of them being the environmental leadership commission and working towards keeping the designation of the tree city and um helping with the residential tree planting program and and those avenues. the actual landscape plans and tree replacement is a um responsibility of the planning commission and board of trustees and you should know that you know oftent times uh when a developer when they take down certain treat I won't go into all the detail here. I'm I'm sorry I don't understand you. Oh sh I talk louder. Sure. Oh does this help? No.

Oh okay. Come on a little closer and I'll try to speak louder so everyone else speaks. So sometimes developers come in, they're taking down trees and they can't replace the trees that they're taking down according to the ordinance, but they'll pay money into a fund here into the township. And then that money is used to plant trees and the public spaces. So some go on in our park here or maybe around the fire station, residential. I certainly hope the fine is deep enough that that we benefit from it. We're not just selling space for trees. I know I know. Yeah, we've raised that issue. She can't hear you. Uh who can't hear me?

Lauren, you can't hear me. Yeah, we can't hear him. Secretary needs to be writing down another time. Yeah. Yeah. Speak into that mic, sir. Sir, if you can speak into that mic, then we can get you on record. Okay. All right. Go ahead. So I I think I think the the people expect you're not elected officials. Well, no. Some of you are. No. No. None of us were appointed.

But you represent the people. You have to protect us from people cutting down trees. And that all that land is going to end up. That was a sterile picture. Didn't that look sterile to you? Well, there's going to be a a tree survey. I'm pretty confident that we'll require a tree sur if this is all passed through. There'll be a tree survey. Many of those trees, what what we've been told so far are not good quality trees. They're invasive trees as already was mentioned. So, there's not a problem taking those trees down. I I hope we use someone like the University of Michigan's department, not some commercial per company that benefits from taking down trees, right?

Somebody neutral, somebody we can trust. And the So, the people of Plymouth Township you guys to save some trees for We're we're very aware and there's a number of I think as a group we're very concerned about trees and we've got two individual commissioners that are probably the most vocal as it relates to trees. The other the other thing that

if you when Kyle was talking with he showed you that overview that uh uh graph it was what was wasn't a picture they explained that they didn't put any of the trees in that so we could see the buildings clearly but that there was going to be several trees left in that in there. So yeah, that's that space they had in the middle, but it said nature and play, but people aren't going to go there and walk those paths if it's all sunshine, right? Have a restaurant with outside seating or something.

We'll be covering that if this passes today, you know, today and it goes through all these various steps. That's part of the site plan approval where we'll talk about that in greater detail. We can't, you know, we don't get get into that deep of a discussion at this point of the process. and it and they had no business plan. They had no no evaluation of whether any of those businesses would work.

That's true. And that that that is not necessarily right. That's not we don't know that. We don't base we don't turn around and say let's say Ann Arbor Road there cannot be any more coffee shops because there already too many. We cannot pick losers and winners and that's up to the individual developer uh to uh make sure they're taking that risk. Sure. I'm sure they're I'm sure they they think these are wonderful ideas and it's going to boom and they're all going to be very successful and that would be nice. But who who makes do you do you take into consideration the chances of them being business successful? That's not a factor. No, no,

we're not allowed. We're not we're not allowed to do that. A devel an entrepreneur is not required to save you guys some trees for us. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah. We are to answer your question. Okay. Okay. There are good plans that protect trees, right? If it's early in the process, right? And what I don't ever want to see have happen is something that happened prior to me being Can you move your mic back cuz now we can't hear you.

We We protect trees, right? They're valued members and residents of the community. Just to let you know, two of us are very particular about it, right? Plans that go whack trees are not good plans in my book. Okay? And those developers hear about it. But it's so early, right? That I'm certain these applicants will probably come up with doing exactly what you have to do, which is measure, mark them, record them, submit it, and show us what the plan is to replace those that you take down. There are bad trees like uh the gentleman mentioned, good ones later in the process. It'll happen. I'll be protected. People are protected. Yeah. Yes, we understand the trees are, too. All right. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. [Music]

Okay. Hello. I'm Carrie Gray. I'm a Plymouth Township resident and I'm also a um tenant on the property. So, I own Tilly's Flower Farm. So, if you're driving on Lily Road, it's all the flowers there. Um I'm also an urban forester. So, um, I work for the Michigan Department of Natural Resources. I know a lot about trees. There are a lot of invasive trees on that site. So, tree of heaven, I couldn't hear invasive species. Okay.

Tree of heaven being the biggest one as Adam mentioned. So, that one gets spotted lantern fly and it's just coming into Michigan. It's more of a nuisance pest, but when it comes, it's pretty much of a nuisance. So removing those trees would actually be a benefit to the property in addition to some of the other invasives on the site. So um but I do have a tree background. So and you know I'm a tenant on the site. I love flowers and trees. So I'm you know going to help them as they make those designs. And to that gentleman's point about there not being trees on the concept plan. Well, it's concept plan and if you showed the trees, it's a little bit difficult to see all the features that are going to be on the site, but I have no doubt that there'll be a lot of trees to replace the ones that are removed.

All right. Thank you. Mhm. Um, hi. My name is Jan Melanac. I live at 9000 Hackberry, which in order to get out of the sub, as Ken Phillips have said, can you direct to us because when you move away from the mic, we can't hear you. Okay. Okay. Away from the mic. No, no, toward the mic. When you were speaking away from it, so then

All right. No problem.

Thanks. Um, I agree with Ken Phillips who came up here before. I use Rever to go out of the subdivision. Also, my concern is the driveway that they're proposing that will be right across the street just about from uh River and um people are going to try to make a left-hand turn out of that side. I think that's going to be a big issue because it's very close to the intersection of Joy and Lily. Um I do think and I think in some of the other um meetings I've been to about other things like Spars um um the Elks property, they were talking about doing traffic studies and I don't know. I think one was done over at Elks and I'm waiting for all those condos and town houses to open and see what that's going to be like. that supposedly was not going to generate that much traffic. I disagree with that and I'm concerned about this development going in. Um my concern also is about empty buildings. Um I go to LA Fitness a couple times a week and all those rental properties are still vacant after it's got to be at least three years. We have open places over at um Ann Arbor Road and um and Lily on the northwest corner. I believe that's Plymouth, but the two buildings on the outskirts have never been filled. And we have a Wendy's that's that's gone out of business. There's several I can think of on Joy Road. So, that is a concern of mine that since it seems very uh questionable what's going to go in at that corner, uh could be some more empty buildings in the future. And then the last thing is the 221

possible parking spots. That sounds like it's about half the property uh would be cement. And I agree about the trees about your previous speaker. That concerns me and I understand that there's invasive species, but um I just wonder how much of that property is going to be cement and buildings and not much of any greenery. Thank you. Thank you. Are they proposing a a driveway off of Lily? Yeah. Okay. Toward toward the I missed that. Yeah. Toward the north end north end, Bob away from Julie. in northeast corner

putting a second one on the south on Joy Road. So it's further from the traffic around here. So Laura, just to to clarify, Courtney, I'm looking back at your report. So the parking um and other pavement constitutes about 54% of the property as proposed. Yeah, as proposed. Okay. Anyone else? Okay, then we will close the public hearing at 8:27 and if the applicant can come forward, we got to make a motion. Make a motion or close the public. Do we have to close it to? Okay. So, is there a motion to close? Make a motion.

Second. Okay. Move by Commissioner um Pardon? Yeah. Closed by uh motion by commissioner ladderick and supported by commissioner um boy to oppose the public hearing 8827. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Motion carries. Um I don't know if you can answer this question or if I should direct it to Laura, but one of the questions of course was the rightway. Who owns that rideway? Do you know? I didn't actually hear the that oh that comment or yeah that comment the lady that lives

right close to your development there's a sorry strip I did hear that um no I mean we're not go go so this is probably should be checked but um I have before early on in this process uh when I was more in like panic mode um I did sit down with developers and they went pretty far in making a plan of condos for this property and they said. So again, check it that that's actually owned by the condos by Oh, next to Yeah, next to the single family residents. The condos, I think. Are they condos?

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Condos is too deeply ingrained. Apartments that the apartments own that right away. Weirdly, it like goes behind the house and out to the street. Yeah. So, so just to the question of who owns it again, check we couldn't do anything with it, right? We don't own it. It wouldn't be developed by it. Okay, let's find out. Let's find out if we can. Laura, do you know? Oh, I can answer that. Um, they're right. Well, that's what shows in the VSSNA that the your properties on that section. Oh, not them. Not us. Could you repeat I we couldn't hear you real clear. Properties owns Microphones are terrible today.

What did she say? She said your property owns the So the apartments Oh, the apartments own that property. Okay. So that answers your question. Yes. Okay. Okay. There's a fire hydrant in that I think too by I think that was for like emergency access. I think so. And I don't think Laura nothing has been submitted as a like a parallel plan or

uh there's not a parallel plan but the applicant has cap the number of units residential units that they are proposing under the PUD to 10 units. If this entire property if the greenhouse were demolished and the site was fully developed as multif family then um I it'd be more than 71 I think 71 was in here somewhere. Yeah, I read 71. It's 71 uh dwelling units. So, it's a difference of 10 to 71. So, that should answer that question. Yep. Okay.

I'll have a comment on the traffic, which I wasn't going to mention, but I will. So, when I attended your um open house, you know, your parking and I that was an unusual event. Um there was no place for me to park. So I ended up parking uh on River and walking, you know, to to the greenhouse. Uh and this was about 5:00, so that was really deep rush hour traffic. I did witness the difficulty of people coming off a river to make that lefthand turn. I also experience the difficulty of walking along the shoulder without a sidewalk. And also I did when I did try to go into your parking lot to make a left turn uh almost had a head on because there's not enough stacking space on that left turn lane. So I'm

pleased in your proposal that you're moving it further east because it definitely needs to be separated from that intersection. I'm sure Wayne County would have something to say about that too. Yeah. Do your plans for the for your uh proposed uh uh cut through or you know into the property to the to the north. Will that line up with River or it does not? No. No, it won't. It can't. It can't. No. Yeah. We we don't our property doesn't extend extend that far. It's right where that line of trees is. right here. And again, that's I mean, right here,

Wendy Wendy did talk to us in the community uh event that we had about that. And we're open to moving it. I think this was just again the concept plan to get here the type of the units and space that we want on there. And again, you know, that we want access, I think,

yes, that that helps. Yeah, we would need access on that side of the road and it helps split um you know where the traffic goes and comes from. Um, and I think just, you know, we used I I used Sencog to like look at the traffic, you know, and, you know, it's studied and you can see this is how many trips per day go on every single road. And so, you know, Lily is not um Lily is not actually the most traffic north south road, but it is um you know, I I have seen the traffic there and it's not it's not great, especially with the construction and you know, when you get certain times a day. So, if there's things to do that, you know, we we can help address like that's that's sort of what we're trying to do by dividing up the the drives and all that is to disperse it. And then with the mixed uses that are on the site, it actually doesn't concentrate, you know, a use at a particular time of day. So it it does help disperse, you know, the traffic. And really like the uh parking that was on the site was sort of the max. We tried to max it out based on, you know, guessing at the the highest uses in terms of needing of what what is needed for parking spaces. So, if we don't have to do 220 something parking spaces, like we don't want to do 220 parking spaces, but um you know, that's again site plan approval stuff.

What happens to your plans if there's no entrance uh off of uh Lily

and all the traffic has to get routed off of Joy. it it dramatically changes the look of I mean where buildings line up and all that sort of thing. The the hard part is is I would say the main concept of the site other than you know working around the greenhouse is that there's a central park area that you can walk around and if we have to put another road from the north side all the way down through the thing it it makes the site much much less walkable. Um, seems like it would be more parking, more pavement needed to route cars around to get back out if there was just one entrance. Plus, plus that I don't think the fire department would let that happen. They like,

yeah. Yeah. I guess we we did meet with the fire department. We did some pre-approval stuff with you also. Yeah. Well, we already closed a public hearing, but what I'll take one question, one question only. What is it? I was just wondering that stamping plant next to you. can't hear. Yeah, you have to come up to the mic. You're asking about plumflating company. You can't you have you have to come up to the mic question out across the room because our uh our recording secretary can't hear it and when she goes to do the the stamping plant or whatever it is something. Okay. Yep. Have you thought maybe of buying that property or does anyone any takers anyone want to go? That could be a parking lot.

Yeah. Um, it it's I I try and pitch that to everyone who comes in because I would love something really awesome to buy that property. It's not on our list given we have many fish that we're trying. Yeah. Um, and I think it's kind of a challenging site because of the, you know, just the use. Um, but I have I I definitely pitch that one all the time. I would love it to be something other than industrial but we'll see his own heavy industrial. All right, we have to move along now because you got your hands. All right, thanks. All right,

questions from the commission commissioners. That's Yeah. Any questions?

Um comments? I I just wanted to say that um right now we're in the process of updating the township's master plan. Um two of the key issues very key issues that we're talking about are number one trees and number two traffic. Um, trees. If you guys follow, I I know you don't, but had you followed our meetings in recent years, you would have found that trees have become a major issue for us, particularly in larger developments. And we've been much more assertive about trying to get developers to not only develop their sites with trees, but to save stands of natural trees that already exist, even if they're not in perfect condition. We've also talked about the need to hire a certified arborist to do the tree studies. So, we know that there's some some rigor to that. Um, as far as traffic goes, Plymouth Township does not control our roads. Unfortunately, Wayne County does. And in the case of Ann Arbor Road, it's actually MDOT. But in the master plan, we're talking about the issue of traffic congestion. We know, we don't have the final results of our homeowner survey, but we know that traffic congestion historically has been a plus for Plymouth Township versus other communities in Southeast Michigan. And there's a sense that we're becoming much more congested here. So we are my way and I think most of us agree. We need to call out traffic congestion as an issue and we need to work with the other communities that do control it, Wayne County and MDOT to see what actions we can take to reduce traffic congestion in Plymouth Township. So I just want you to know that that those topics are brought up here tonight, but they are also very relevant to this other project we're working on, the master plan.

Okay. Anything else related to this uh PUD and reszoning request because we're going to have to make a motion one way or the other. Okay.

So, uh and Laura has done a great job giving us findings of facts. So, uh if you don't have any questions right now, I would suggest you look at these findings in fact and determine if you agree with them or disagree. um because those have to be included in the motion. See if there's any of these two topics that you you uh do not agree to. Well, I think Laura did a good job of

trying to chunk it into two separate pieces, which is very helpful. Okay. There's a lot of detail in here, which I'm I'm impressed that was laid out well. Okay. And the explanation we got at the beginning of the meeting was also really helped to clarify. I struggle with the fact that we are deferring and delaying projects because the master plan is not done. Okay. and we keep getting coached and counsel and feedback. Most of it has been negative on why are you granting conditional approvals when the master plan is an update. Right? So that's the first struggle I have. Right? And I know we're months away, not years. Okay? Which I applaud the fact that we're going through it. The other thing that that keeps going through my mind is people want to move and live in Plymouth Township, right? The housing demand is strong and we just don't have the units, right? There's a huge demand because we are so old, that's me included, okay, that people want first floor master so they're not climbing stairs, right? That is a very clear one.

How is that related to what's before us now? I appreciate those comments trying to focus the discussion. Yeah, it it violates the future land use. Okay, very clearly stated in here, right? So on the discussion when I see on the conditional resoning right there are so many conflicts that are going on right with what our charter is and our master plan and what the master plan will be right that this it it flies in the face of it number one. Number two the fact that there's another legal matter going on with another greenhouse in the township right now.

We don't even that is that's a separate thing. It it may be, but the warning bells go off that you're treating one entity this way and maybe where the township is another and it it it creates a gray area in noise for the township and which is concerning. It may create a gray area for you, but for us we have to consider we cannot consider that as part of our decision today. Okay. So, so, uh, Laura, do you feel that there's this proposal is in conflict with the master plan as one of the commissioners feels?

No, I do not. Um, on page five of our conditional resoning review, we cite several goals that are furthered by this development proposal. We do note that this is not an exact match to the future land use map designation of multifamily that it does provide multif family but it is not strictly multifamily. However, overall um we feel that this is aligning and moving it in the right direction. Does that alleviate your concern?

No, it does not. Okay. I see 72 properties down to 10, 12, maybe 15. Okay. with the the land that's there, right? And I don't know what the right answer is, Dennis, right, with what could be done. And like I said, this is creative. It's out of the box, right? But the demand for housing that people want to have in this township, right, is not being satisfied. It doesn't even come close, right? It is creative. I think the commercial aspect is really out of the box, right? And it's something that the township would be unique to, right? But we have very clear demands being placed on us, I think the survey will help us, right?

And at this time, not having a master plan done, right? I think it would be wrong to to go forward at this time. So would you, so I want to be clear, I understand what you're saying and others. So are you proposing that that this remain uh multifamily zoning at this time? Yes. Good. So, it'd be 71 apartments. What you should do then is make a motion to deny the application for the conditional resoning and we take a vote on it.

You agree with that, Kevin? Commission has three options. either vote to recommend the township board approve the conditional resoning and this is going to be an independent motion from the PUD option. The commission can recommend to the board that they deny the conditional resoning or they can table it for additional considerations. Right. But if we if we deny the reszoning then does the PUD the PUD can't happen becomes moot right but correct

if I can interject the recommendation still needs to be made for the PUD to the board of trustees because the board of trustees could actually approve the conditional resoning even though your recommendation is different. So both need to have motions to move forward either way.

Okay. Um I see this a little differently. Um, I've looked at this from a number of different angles. Um, most of the board members know that I'm uh very skeptical about mixeduse developments. Um, however, learning about this in detail, I'm reasonably convinced that this is quite a bit different than the other mixeduse developments in Southeast Michigan that have failed. Um, I've also looked at this versus some of the other usages versus some of the other proposals we've had as a as a township planning commission. Uh, I see positives on this in every possible way other than the concern that the blue buildings at the north end have a little bit of risk associated with them because they're commercial first floor, residential second floor, and that's not a completely proven business model. But the rest of the development I see is positive in every possible way. The community involvement, the level of community support, I can't think board members of at least my experience where we've ever had a proposal where it's had this level of community support and involvement both in the involvement but als de development but also in the support of it. Um I see I think the opportunity to create a community area event space involve the community in these different ways um is something that the eastern part of Plymouth Township perhaps doesn't have as much capability or opportunity as the western Plymouth Township and I think we need to look at that as a as a positive for eastern Plymouth Township. So overall um ideally I would have preferred a little bit more information on the traffic survey and I would have preferred preferred um more information on six on your experience with mixeduse developments in your other areas. But setting that aside I I am

actually in favor of this development. So that's how I see it. What was the last thing you said, Tim? um that I would have preferred to have a little bit more information on the traffic study and also on Kyle's prior experience with the mixeduse development piece, the commercial first floor, residential second floor. But at this point, the positives outweigh the negative to the point where I feel that this proposal has so many positives that we um should go ahead and take a chance on it and recommend it to the board. Yep. Agree. So, we need a uh motion.

We need We need two motions actually. One one at a time or Yeah, you you need two two two motions. I would say the first one would have to be uh whatever you feel about the conditional resoning and then the second would be the PUD only after we vote on the first one. Right. Okay. Thanks. Do you agree with that, Laura? There's actually um Am I Did you want to make a motion, Bill recommending not approval first? Wouldn't that be the right we would vote on that? Do you want to place that as a It's on the If you can see the screen, it's on this a non-approval or approval, right? In my eyes, it's it's equivalent, right? If a non-approval motion comes forward and it it passes, fine, it's dead. If it if it fails, then it sounds like it passes,

right? Which is a weird way of saying it.

Yeah. Not not automatically. It's you could still have a deadlock. Um I'm not I'm not trying to I wasn't trying to, you know, bait you into something. I that wasn't what I was trying to do. Uh I just said if you feel that strong, make a motion um to recommend denial or or somebody else can make a motion to recommend approval. But we need to do one or the other. Well, I'll make a motion that we file the master plan as is, right? And we wait to publish the new master plan before we entertain another variance and another conditional.

So, you make a motion to recommend denial. Correct. Yes. Okay. Of the reasonzoning? Yes. Okay. And what's your findings of fact? Findings of fact are number one, the data. I've been through the the 17, right? It was great to have the public uh invitation where they could come see and learn about it. Number one, and can you put it in a motion?

Oh, yeah. Finding a fact is number one, there is a traffic problem there. We don't know what the solution is. We have a master plan. We're not following it. Okay. And I think we should we should know the traffic number one. We should follow the master plan number two. Right? And if we want to make this part of the master plan change going forward, great. But we're not there now. Did you get that? You have to be a little bit more I'll be succinct. My motion is deny the proposal as written to reszone. May I make a just a a comment before the the commission votes on this?

If the commission denies the reasonzoning request, then the applicant can't refile unless there's substantial uh changes in the application for a period of one year. If the commission decides to table the applications or applicants request until after the new master zone or the master plan is passed. That would not lay that requirement of one year on the applicant. Then I'll restate the motion. Okay. To table this proposal as is to table it.

Yeah. I don't want to penalize somebody 12 months, 365 days, right? I I do think the master plan being published and approved by the board of trustees happens in the next five months. January. Okay. 6 months. Fine. So, that's less time. Postponed for uh for how long? 6 months. 6 months. Let's finish and get the master plan through. And that would be cutting it for for January. It would be in January. You might want to consider seven or eight. Seven months. I I'll make it seven months. Okay. If that makes you you feel better. Well, I'm just thinking about the timing. Chair Chairman Sabolski, could I interject?

Yeah, sure.

Um the review of the master plan and approval of the updated master plan is a routine process for any municipality. It should not hinder development proposals as they uh arrive unless the municipality by the board of trustees has set a moratorum on development. So we need to treat all development projects the same. If others are being considered and approved and moving forward, this would this would not be treating applicants uniformally. I would not recommend tableabling until the master plan is adopted. And I also I don't want I don't want to uh conf you know make this more confusing but I was trying to find in your two reports here that if they find that this plan that they're going to come up with is not successful it reverts back to the original. Can you clarify that? I couldn't find find it real quickly in your report.

Correct. Um if the planned unit development is not finalized um with their proposed uses then the conditional resoning is moot and the property reverts back to its current designation which is multif family. It's another consideration but you have a motion on the floor then my motion is to delay this by seven months to table it. Is there support? Okay. Then the motion dies the last board. Okay. All right. So now where do we go from here? I'd like to make a motion.

Okay. Um on subject 2564 gra uh resoning and finding the fact. Do you want me to read all of them? Um just as as stated in Okay. As stated in um um Kenna's uh report of July 8th, um I uh uh approve um the resoning of You recommend I recommend That's right. Recommend the resoning of approval to the board of trustees. App Yeah, there it is. Read right there. I recommend for approval to the board of trustees based on those findings. Second. I knew I knew

by Commissioner Latawick and supported by Commissioner Pop to recommend to the board of trustees uh the uh conditional resoning for application 2564. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Opposed. Okay. Uh so um Commissioner I opposes but the motion does carry. Yep.

All right. What about the PUD? What's the feelings on the PUD? I will also make a motion on that one. On subject 2564, Graze Greenhouse, um, thank you. Um, I make a a motion to approve uh movement to the board of trustees for the POD option on this property by the F uh finding of uh of McKennon's report. support.

Okay. Moved by Commissioner Ladawick in support of Commissioner Boyd to recommend to the board of trustees uh the PUD. Uh I guess it's the same application 2564. All in favor signify by saying I I opposed. Opposed. Okay. Uh motion carries with Commissioner Iikes opposing. All right. Well, good luck. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. [Applause] Okay. Am I allowed to pee or no? Real quick.

I can't I won't adjourn the meeting, but real quick.

Yeah, we're going to do the to the flex space. Flex. Yes. Yes. [Music] I'm sorry I kicked your fingers down here. No, it's okay.

I just got so frustrated at one point. [Music] Okay. [Music] [Music] Nice meeting everyone. All right.

Yeah, right. friends. So,

are we next? Thank you guys. I I promise I'll be more Yeah, sorry,

right. I wish you the very best. We got, you know, more steps to go through here, but this is the first big first step. Yep. Good luck. Sorry.

No. Is that You just [Music] put here first. Sorry, I was I Well, I knew that I I But I didn't put

So once you guys get Please if I could help it, I wouldn't.

I mean, I guess I could have told it, but it's like I don't know how long these other things are going to take. You can think of you know in in you know Jerry Hill Village those are start to pick up and all that down you haven't been down I I was just down there

I know but it's been 20 years well that was a poor man that's the same thing with Mayflower Mayflower that was that was built by a guy that went bankrupt put more too much money on that that's kind of how that that spot survived there first moved in. We were paying $10,000 a month for that.

Thank you, commissioners. This is for application 2556, also known as permit flex. Your mic is your mic. Yes, it is. I'm going to speak louder.

Okay. Um, so this is the final site plan for Plymouth Plex development. Uh, the parcel is located on South Schoolcraft Road, uh, just south of the Hidden Falls Seek Temple. Um the property is zoned O office research with a plan unit development and the proposed use of flex office is permitted permitted within the based off of the PE. Um the project does comply with all dimensional standards within the O district and the PUD. Uh going over preservation of site features. So the subject site is currently wooded and will be significantly altered to accommodate the proposed development. Um based on the feedback from the commission during the tenative site plan review, tree number 402, which is a 50 plus uh DBH red oak will be saved as part of this process. Um so the tree replacement is required at a ratio of 1 in caliper for every 4 in DBH removed. Based on the tree removals, a total of 160.5 inches of replacement trees are required and the landscape plan proposes 163 in of replacement trees.

You got to talk louder. Really? Okay. Okay. Uh so although the wooded character of the site will be significantly altered, the proposal meets the ordinance standards. um a minimum of 20% of the site must be preserved as open space in a PUD. Uh this is accomplished. They are approximately proposing 42% of the total site. Uh and part of that is a civic space, a gathering area near the rear of the property which uh they were able to save a number of trees in that picnic area that are existing. So sorry, what section are you on in your three?

Section three. Okay, let me catch up with you here. I went ahead. Preservation of site features. Got it. Okay, thank you. Okay, moving on to section four. Uh based on the engineering department's review, the project is not expected to place any additional demand on public services. Uh section five, the proposed vehicle vehicular layout supports internal connectivity and efficient circulation. Uh that is consistent with the goals of both the zoning ordinance and PUD. Uh section six, pedestrian access and circulation. Uh in the previous site plan, there was no uh sidewalk from the public right ofway. They have added that along school craft and it will go up against the west side of the property going directly to uh building A is how that access will work for this site. So it does accomplish the internal circulation uh requirement from the public rightway and internal uh number seven emergency access. The site plan illustrates adequate fire lane circulation. Um, number eight, landscaping and screening. Uh, for the most part, they do meet these these requirements. Um, we did note that the PUB overlay requires landscape parking islands for every 15 parking spaces. Uh, there was a mistake in the report. It says there's that there was a two two actual landscape islands. That's actually seven. There are seven on the site plan. They do uh separate. They come in after 15 spaces. So they are stopping that like long line of parking spaces from just being parking spaces. There are seven of them. They're required to have 10. However, they can fit those in nicely on the site plan, but it's not a it's not a major concern.

They are meeting the intent of this uh this code section. Number nine, fencing. A 6oot private fence is proposed behind building C and D. Uh parking and loading. So as part of the PUD, the township permitted an alternative standard for calculating required parking. So um the total amount that would be required would be seven spaces based off of that uh alternative standard. They are proposing 172. Uh the site does require a total of six barrierfree parking spaces, but only five are on the site plan. So that is a condition of approval that they do increase that for to one more uh number 11 building design and architecture. Uh last time building a the facade facing the seek temple uh was a little plain had just one roof line. Um they have changed that. They've added a a a variation of material similar to the front and then also added uh some more roof line variations to the rear. Um all the other buildings as well, including now building A, they uh features uh varied roof lines, projections, material changes that help break up the building mass and provide visual interest, which is consistent with the township's intent uh to avoid blank walls and overly uniform facades. Exterior lighting, uh all proposed fixtures are fully shielded and directed downward to prevent glare and light spill onto adjacent properties. uh the lighting levels uh on the plan do not exceed three foot candles on average across the site which meets the this standard. So we are recommending approval of the final site plan with uh the two conditions. One uh for the to increasing

to the uh free or barrier free parking spaces up to six and then the landscaping uh portion for the uh landscape islands was added in there as well when there was we thought there was only two but there are seven now. So that condition could be taken out if you guys feel that has been met. Uh I happy to take any questions right now or wait until you guys are ready. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Hart. And the engineering report. Um

good evening. Uh we have received the final site to for the Pumoflex project prepared by Monument Engineering Group Associates and our letter is dated July 9th um of this year. Uh could you speak into the mic a little louder? We're having trouble hearing you. Oh, sorry. Last time I was too close. Okay,

good. Um yeah, so um as I was saying, we did review this uh in the tentative. Um we had a few comments on the water man and the storm. Overall they address overall concerns uh from our previous uh report. Uh we don't have any issues as they're providing water sanitary and storm on the site. Um the only remaining comments that we still want to note at this time is that the adjacent Virginia tile development is currently under construction and this is um site that basically they're going to be sharing utilities and driveway. So we want to make sure that this um it's coordinated the projects as they will need the Virginia tile site to for this development to be built. Um, additionally, there has been previous discussion and correspondence with the developer on the sanitary and water leads for this development. The DP the tons DPW department has agreed to one lead per building under the following conditions. Uh, water cross connection control containment for each building and it should be detailed in the bylaws and master lead. Um, the HOA's utility responsibility. Uh these documents will need to be provided for review and approval during our engineering review. And we are also recommending that the 8 and 1/2 radius driveway be redesigned as a 15 radius to allow for a better circulation. We had already comment on the traffic that we really do not have concerns. Um uh we don't have all the information given that the uses of the units might vary it but overall we feel that there won't be any issues and um therefore we're approval the final we're approving final site plan approval of the of the plans.

She said what proposing what oh recommending final approval. Yeah final approval. Sorry. Okay. and the applicant is here. Need to sign in. Okay, no problem. Good evening. Uh, first off, we appreciate you guys uh changing the agenda to move us up a little bit. Yeah.

So, that was appreciated. Alan Puss with Monument Engineering, 298 Veterans Drive in Fowlerville. Um, so we received the uh review letters from your uh consultants, the planner, the engineer, and uh earlier today we did receive uh our review from Wayne County. Um I forwarded that on to both the engineer and the planner so that they're up to speed on any uh you know additional comments. Um I'll start I'll kind of go backwards with Wayne County. Um their comments were mainly storm water management related. So b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b basically engineering. They don't have any uh comments for right away for the drain commissioner or traffic. Um we're So we're in good shape there. Uh to Louisa's comment about the engineering their letter is basically kind of prepping us for the engineering submitt. Um she mentioned the one radius uh change. I don't see a problem with changing that radius. Um that's on the shared driveways that um portion that goes into our site. Um I don't know who's controlling but you go if you can bring up our sheet C 1.1 or 1.0 which was our paving and dimension plan if you can keep keep going. Yes. Thank you.

Tell me when to stop.

Okay. uh right there please. Thank you. If you can zoom out a little bit, but the the radius Louisa was talking about is down at shared driveway there. It's an 8 and 1/2 ft radius and we will make it a 15 foot radius. Um so based on um your consultants review letters and some feedback that we received at the board of trustees uh uh meeting in May um we did make some changes some modifications I'll say to the plans. Um we part of our storm water management we added bio retention swailes. Um, so more of a kind of a um a swale situation that will treat the water prior to it going into the detention basin. A little bit more uh green green a little bit more friendly green friendly, excuse me. Um I do want to point out there are um six barrier free spaces. I think some of them one of them might have been masked by some dimensioning. So we do have um one on building A, we have two on the south side of building uh B. uh one on the south side of building C and on the south side of D at the east side there's and on the east side of D there is two spaces there I think there some dimensioning got was show covering up some of the uh no

are you able to zoom in at all where am I zooming Um I can I can go c can I walk up there and point them out to Yeah, I think it's it's okay. The landscape plan isn't showing the the addition of the six barrier free, but the site plan is showing it's just covered a little bit.

Yeah, we are showing six barrier free spaces. I just wanted to clarify that. Um the landscape island issue uh we just need to shift it a couple of the islands we need to shift it um one way another to break up the 15 more than 15 spaces in a row. So we will we will do that. That's not an issue. Um one of the things that we took to heart was the uh trees. Um we were able to save a heritage tree up front um by I'll say bending the sidewalk around the tree. Um the other heritage tree that came up during our uh board of trustees meeting was in the detention basin. So unfortunately we weren't able to save that one. Um but as pointed out by the planner up in the picnic area, we were able to save another nine trees. Um so basically what we did there was we left the grading in that area to save those trees, graded around it, added a little landscape wall and and some drainage like yard drain structures for uh provide drainage. So, uh, we did listen. Um, I don't want the board or the commission to think that we were just shaking our head, uh, to appease the, uh, board of trustees. We did make those changes.

We appreciate your, uh, good faith efforts on. Yeah. No, absolutely. We, if we could have saved more, we would have. Um, also, uh, we did add a lot, um, screening along the west property line as requested to, uh, screen us from the seek temple a little bit better. Um, on top of making the architectural changes, we do have uh the applicant Mark Roberts and the the contractor Craig Stalker with PVAR. PVAR is on the site next door at Virginia Tile. Um, we do have some uh material samples uh for the commission and we are happy to answer any questions that you guys have.

Well, let's look at the material samples and then we can gather all our questions in one sitting. This is the uh privacy fence. For example, we have down here can just walk it around or we can pass it down. Yeah, this is the this is not the actual color, but this is sort of the format of what the siding portion of the project would look like. And then these are more line with some of the colors. Those are all the actual just as the samples come in there basically. And then

so what what was this part? The signing that you said. Yeah. There this sample here's the signing of this area here. Correct. Yeah. Okay. And this for what it's worth. I know we did renderings and everything but this is a duplicate project they're doing in Georgia. Uh-huh. So, that literally is what what it's going to be very close to what it would actually look like. Here. So, this siding would you say it's not that color or No, it's the it's the lighter color. Oh, it's the lighter color. It's just that's just the surprising board LP.

I mean, I I think it' be like metal or something like that. So I like the idea for many colors. So it's Will you offer four or five? They're neutral tone. They're good. Yeah, I like it. I have it on my house. It's very sturdy. Mhm. Okay. Sure. Siding. And where did you say that building is being Jordan? This one here. In Georgia. In Georgia. So it would be kind of like very very similar to that. Okay.

Where where in Georgia just out of curiosity? Alpharetta. Okay. Alpharetta is a for those that don't know pretty upscale suburb north of the Atlanta. Very similar to Pum Township in a lot of ways. So the doors go right into the unit or they're Okay. So you have this door plus this. Yeah. Everyone gets two. Yeah. Okay. Mhm. And they all have potential for second floor they'll have to do it themselves cuz they're it's it's an option that we're

that you're going to do. ERT you it's not that they have Yeah. It's like an insert that goes uh area in the back the loft option for Yeah. basically a second floor. Yeah. So, can that be removed if the if somebody if they sell it and someone else doesn't want it? Yeah. Steel bolted structure. It's not a loadbearing. Yeah. Is that the color of the fencing over there? Is that the same Is that the color you're going to use? That's just the Okay. PVC. Yeah. smaller. Okay. Questions from anybody?

No, not a question. They they came back and saved nine trees. You guys went above and beyond, including keeping the 58 in one on the corner. So, we had victims with the back building. Yeah. So, we're actually only removing two heritage trees. All the rest are literally evasive, which is great. So, thank you for reooking at it one more time. Absolutely. It's a good suggestion. Appreciate it. Yeah. Okay. Anybody else with anything? No. Okay. So, well, is there a motion to uh

Mr. Mr. Chair, um based on compliance with article 29 site plan review standards and article 23 plan unit development of the zoning ordinance and recommended that the planning commission grant final site approval for the Plymouth FX development at PC application number 2556 subject to the condition that the landscape plan shall be revised to increase parking lot landscaping to meet the minimum 15 square ft per parking space and provide additional landscape islands in accordance with the PUD overlay standards. Like the second who's supported bill. Okay.

Move by Commissioner Move by Commissioner Boy supported by Commissioner Hikes to u approve application 2556 subject to set conditions. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Motion carries. Good luck gentlemen.

Good luck. Welcome to the township. Okay. Next is the text amendment to the zoning ordinance. And Laura, you lead off that discussion.

Yes, thank you. So, at the study session earlier this month, we discussed um this draft text for the exterior lighting. Um the public hearing is tonight. We have not received any written comments to the planning department. Um the administration would like to see this move forward so that it can be adopted before some other projects come in um later this summer and fall. Um again, this does not change any of the residential lighting requirements. Those have stayed the same. This is just for industrial commercial and to improve um the transition between commercial and industrial to residential um to reduce glare and and off-site impacts.

Okay. Well, is there a motion to open the public hearing? Uh Mr. Mr. Chair, I move we open the public hearing on the exterior lighting requirements proposed text amendment. Is there support? Second. Moved by Commissioner uh Boy and supported by Commissioner Iikes to open the public hearing at uh 9:21. All in favor signify by saying I opposed. Motion carries. Anyone here speak we have to see somebody might rush in the door. They've been waiting second. Okay. Is there a motion to um close the public hearing at uh I make 9:20?

I'll second this motion. Okay. All right. So, it was moved by Commissioner Ladwick, supported by Commissioner X close public hearing. Any discussion? So, I assume we and I'm sorry I didn't read the current, but it's I assume similar to this. So, this just strengthens it a little bit. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. And most developers are already doing I mean they're they pretty much understand this right? Uh no really well. Okay.

We need we need to have the the guidelines in place so it's really clear to them what's allowed especially at the property line. Yeah. Okay. It's a chief complaint. Well, dark skies is people are getting more sensitive to it now, but in the past before people were aware of it, people were coming in always concerned about lighting spillage over adjacent properties, particularly if it was near or close to the residential neighborhood. So, this uh helps beef it up a bit and uh is more sensitive to the whole dark skies movement.

Yep. If there so this is a text amendment to the ordinance that uh would have to be approved by the board of trustees. Correct. Correct. We have a motion to recommend approval. I recommend approval of Hang on. Okay. Is there support? Support. Moved by Commissioner Dorschitz and supported by Commissioner Boyd to uh recommend approval to the board of trustees on the text amendment to uh zoning ordinance 99 article 28. All in favor signify by saying I.

Opposed? Motion carries and we have the monthly report. Any questions? Um I had one on the um proposal for a lot split. um on 9011 Elmhurst. Um after that lot split, will that lot be less wide than the other lots in Green Meadows or will it be more or less similar to the existing um lot widths in other parts of Green Meadows? It will it will be similar to the existing lots.

Okay. They're following the platted lot lines for the Okay. Which one, Tim? Um, it's 9011 Elmhurst, which is in Green Meadows. 2562. Third from the bottom. Yeah. Third bottom, too. Okay. All right. Any other questions on the uh No. No. Okay. We'll just order it, receive, and file. Uh I don't think anyone wants to spend any time talking about the master plan tonight, but uh the steering committee is meeting tomorrow morning at 8 to move that uh project along. Unless Lord, do you have anything you wanted to say about the master plan?

I just wanted to pass out close with survey Monday. I'm going to email this out. Um, the full report is 80 pages, so I have an abbreviated one, right?

The three of you have the full print out of all the Do we get the summary or or you're going to send out the summary? I I will. Oh, okay. this English be interesting reading. Yes, it will be. No, I think it's great. There's a lot to study here. It's I'm happy with the responses. What What does it mean you have answered 80 802 but skip? We're at 11. So, people skip the whole survey or portions of the survey or just that question. Oh, just that question. Yeah. Oh, I see. I see. They choose to skip one if they didn't want to answer.

Oh, okay. So, it tells you the the number that did. Okay. Especially the open-ended questions like you know maybe 500 people actually provided an additional response to those because it wasn't required. 40% have lived here 25 years. Yeah, I noticed that. That's right. Bill, did you have a comment?

Yeah, just on page one, the difference between blue bars and green [Music] Oh, that relates to the top two. What was what was the number one contributing factor? What was the number two? Green is factor number one. So things with higher green uh signify higher uh importance. Okay. Thank you. Did you do a an age question or no? Yes, it it's skewing uh towards an older population,

but it's not on the summary or unless I miss the alarm for 4 in the morning, it it should be well. Should we bring a gallon of coffee? What do you guys want for coffee in the morning? one of those jugs for Panera coffee. It's not It's not in that one, but the full results that I'll email out, it will be in that. All right. All right. Fine. Tomorrow. I mean, I'm just more curious cuz my opinion is it's a older crowd, but it was

Well, if they lived here 25 years or more, they're at least 25 years old. Any other any other questions on the on the survey? Okay. Any uh comments from the commission? I have one. Um last time I raised the question about the St. John's town homes and the preservation of trees relative to the um approval. Um this the site plan final approval was April of last year and I found the uh the paperwork. Um the tree survey actually had 343 trees um and 88 of them at the time were not to be removed. However, when you actually look on the site plan, a good number of those trees on that tree s are not actually on this development. They're on other parts of the St. John's um adjacent areas of the St. John's um resort. So, it's kind of hard to tell, but it would appear that the trees that were to be preserved were on the central part of the far eastern border in the southeast corner of the property. Um I I would like to suggest if it hasn't already been done that we ask the building department just to do a bit of a spot check. I don't want them to look at every individual tree and inventory it. just do a bit of a spot check and see if there are trees that are still being preserved um in the center of the eastern border in the southeast corner of the bo border unless Laura you have a further update for us

did provide some information um and I I'll be able to share that with you guys tomorrow morning and I can send out additional correspondence to the whole commission if you like. Okay. All right. Thank you. Do you think they cut more down than what I don't know. I just because they certainly cut a lot down. Yeah. And I guess the the plan that we approved showed most of them being cut down. Oh, okay. I just want to make sure that the ones that weren't to be cut down actually were not cut down. Okay. Okay. Which they're not very many, but just to make sure. No, I was just curious cuz Yeah, it's one day there's a bunch of trees and the next day they're they're gone. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty dramatic. Yeah. And if they did cut something down, then then there is a penalty or they have to plan more.

Well, well, I think that's to be discussed. Yeah. But there are consequences. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those are more of those threestory town home things. Yeah. I think we have enough threetory town home things in this this township. I don't think you How much how much is too many? Uh when the Elks is done and when St. John's is done, it's I think over two too many. I think we have enough but I don't know. That's my opinion. That's a master plan subject actually. That's a good We have enough threestory town homes, you know, short. It's my opinion.

Any other questions or comments from anybody? Just one question. It's a point of question on question number seven. Okay. I just want to verify these are by precinct number 1 through 12. Okay, perfect. That's what I thought it was. Yeah. Okay. All right. Is there a motion to adjourn at 9:31? Motion to adjourn the uh planning commission meeting of July 16th. Second. Is there support? Support. Moved by Commissioner Hik and supported by Yes. The motion was made by

Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. Right. I I messed up. I heard you're last. So, so moved by uh Commissioner Pop and supported by Commissioner Iikes to at 9:31. All in favor signify by saying I. Opposed. Motion carries. We're