Board - Special Meeting

ship of Plymouth Board of Trustees special meeting for Tuesday, May 5th, 2026, 6:30 p.m. Uh, roll call. I guess I'll do the roll call. Uh, Jen Buckley here. Mark Clinton here. Charles Kermy, that's me. Bob Dorvitz here. Sandy Grove here. John Stewart here. Jerry Vorvo excused. All right. Pledge of allegiance.

I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

So, we need approval of the agenda. Mr. Supervisor, I move to approve the agenda for the Tuesday, May 5th, 2026 meeting. Second. Second. Bob Dor Chevitz. Um, all right. The first item, but I'm we're going to do vote on roll call. We already did roll call. No, on the we have to vote on approving the agenda. See, that's why we need a clerk. Um, [clears throat] all right. Uh, Jen Buckley, yes. Mark Clinton, yes. Kermy, yes. Dor Chevitz, yes. Sandy Grove, yes.

John Stewart,

yes. Barva excused. Okay. All right. Uh I'm just going to say a couple of things here. Um this is a process that we have used at least twice before and we're going to let me give you a little background. We must have a clerk and a deputy to function. Um and the deputy position ends when the clerk resigns and it's accepted. If the resignation accept is accepted and no one is appointed, then we can't pay vendors or employees for wages. So that's why we've been doing this delicate balance that some people think is a simple thing like you hire someone in the HR department through the HR department. So there are some gray areas, but uh the temporary substitute if we had no deputy and no clerk. Um we'd probably have to have a relatively aggressive attorney that ready to defend that. If we appointed someone as a board who was not an elected person, we want to avoid that if we can. If we don't appoint someone in 45 days after having accepted the resignation, then the county clerk will call an election and a special election, but it will be probably the November election because it will be too late to print ballots for the August primary. And uh the Democratic party, the local one, will identify a a candidate if they want to. and the Republican party also. And those candidates then would run for office. Um, as a reminder, we're not going to be taking a formal vote, binding vote tonight. We're going to be working to achieve a consensus so that maybe next

week on May 12th, that consensus candidate uh would be ready to be appointed. we would take the resignation of the current clerk and then appoint a new clerk. If that doesn't happen, then we just continue to deliberate and if if it goes to 45 days after accepting the resignation, then we would have an election. Don't know if we want to do that yet. So, um the the steps tonight are going to be um a random draw of a candidate's name to determine the order of the fiveminute elevator pitch kind of like Jack Welsh at GE. Um when they're completed, uh the board will ask questions of each candidate in the order in which they gave their pitch. And then um everybody has to come to the podium, all of the candidates when they speak. Um then we'll do a roundroin of board uh questions until everybody's done. Uh then the process will repeat uh for each candidate and then we will deliberate. So, um, don't be discouraged because we act like we, you know, where there isn't some decisive fix in place where we know exactly what we're going to be voting on. We're going to be deliberating. If you've ever seen the House of Lords in uh, England, they deliberate. It's kind of wild. We don't want to be that wild, but um, [laughter]

scream at each other, right? Um,

King Charles. And I urge you, you will be able to make comments at the end, not in the beginning. The and you as the residents are not interviewing these people. It it is not like an HR kind of situation. In fact, there are really no strong requirements for a clerk like you would say for someone who's going to be a manager of an accounting department. Uh it's uh very simple. You have to be a citizen, an elector of Plymouth Township, 18 years old, and a resident of 30 days in Plymouth Township. So [snorts] you can fog the as long as you can fog the window, you'd be okay as a clerk potentially. There are no other requirements. All right. Who's ready to What we'll do is we'll come up here. Who's going to draw for us? Sheila. You got them mixed up. Well,

and before we start, if anybody has questions that's a candidate, ask the questions. Does that come off their five minutes? Pardon? Does that come off their five minutes? If somebody Yes. Yep. Right. Yeah. We want When I say ask a question, procedural question, you know, if they're confused or whatever. Oh, not a question of the candidate. Okay. I'm sorry. What? Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. The first candidate is Sandra Growth and you need to speak from the podium.

I will. It works. Good evening, board members and members of the public. I appreciate this opportunity to tell you a little bit about my myself, my professional background, and my experience that qualifies me to serve as interim clerk until the next election when a clerk may be elected. I moved to Plymouth at the age of 10 and I began working for Plymouth Township Fire Department at the age of 17. I worked there 5 years and gained an undeniable understanding and appreciation for the fire service. Eventually, I married Larry Growth, who served in the fire service for over 41 years, 24 as fire chief in Plymouth Township. Larry and I were married for 38 years. I am now a widow, which enables me to devote the hours required to perform the clerk duties. I'm [snorts] the daughter of a retired Michigan State Police Sergeant and former chief of police in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania. I believe in strict adherence to election law to ensure election integrity. I've always known that my calling is public service. I am happiest when I am serving the interests of others. I understand and deeply appreciate all who heed that call. In 1994, I began working for clerk massing as a poll worker, chair, and a co-chair at the polls on election day. And at the same time, I worked as an election assistant charged with developing internal processes and controls for the distribution of absentee ballots and the receipt and proper processing of return ballots. This is where I developed my

love for the election process from start to finish. I have read our election laws in their entirety numerous times. I've always kept a breast of the changes in the law. I think the law is like 470 something pages. Even when I was not professionally working in elections, the laws have changed substantially with the passage of proposal 3 in 2018, which allowed for a constitutionallymandated secret ballot. Uh, it provided for military and overseas voters to get their ballot at least 45 days before the election electronically. Allows in-person voter registration all 14 days before the election. Um, automatic voter registration when interacting with the Secretary of State's office for license and state ID cards and it provided no reason absentee voting and constitutionally enshrined audits of election results. In 2022, Michigan elected to institute early voting measures, which provide the opportunity to vote a ballot and feed it into the tabulator for at least a 9-day period, beginning on the second Saturday before election day. Michigan actually began early voting in the 2024 election cycle. The role of the clerk is more than elections. It requires a good understanding of governmental operations responsibilities and it includes the performance of the clerk's statutory duties, compliance with meeting and posting requirements, the open meetings act and FOYA. Maintaining all official township records, provision of a recording secretary to provide accurate minutes at all official meetings of the township board. Understanding operational procedures and functions, including compliance with the purchasing

policy and bid process, working with the treasurer on reconciling the general ledger, and overseeing all functions of accounts payable to include serving as one of the two signers for checks. I have served as an elected trustee since 2024. I've ser served the township in many roles since as early as 1976 and I have extensive general knowledge about most township issues. I served as deputy clerk for Plymouth Township on two different occasions. I worked elections in the city of Leavonia and I administered elections in the city of Plymouth. I am a people person. I work and play well with others. I am honest, transparent, accountable, and committed to public service with integrity. I consider all of these traits to be admirable and necessary in public service. And yes, I do hold others to the same standards. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight.

Before you go away with uh what is your party affiliation? Oh, I am a Republican. All right. Remember, everybody needs to say that your name and your party affiliation. Bob, could you bring up the uh the resumes up here? [snorts] There's a seat up here. If somebody wants it in the front row, the teacher won't call on you.

All right, we Sheila, next draw. Mark has a question. Well, no, we're not doing questions until everybody gives their pitch. Oh, okay. Okay.

[clears throat] And the winner is

Oh my god. Jen Buckley. [laughter] What was the luck of that? I should have bought a lottery ticket. Two people in a row right up here. Huh. Thank you. This is very interesting being on the other side over here. Okay. Uh thank you board members. Over the last two weeks, I've prayed and thought deeply about what I would say tonight. The reality is you already know who I am and what I am about. You know I am competent and capable. You know, I earned the most votes from our citizens after only two years in local government. You know, I'm also a proven leader in the community, able to inspire, motivate people in times of stress and adversity. And you also know I have a good working knowledge of township government because I've been an insider for the last four years, and it's the role and responsibility of my job. As both a board member and a candidate for clerk, I'm first going to address the public candidates here tonight. If you hadn't been keeping up with local politics, you should know that two board members here are vying for the opportunity to promote up. Last week, the motion died on the floor due to a tie between us. Logically and historically, the president has been to promote from within. So, forgive me, but I'm going to keep my discussion in comparison to the two candidates here on the board. In March, after Jerry's letter of resignation was posted, viable replacements from the board became part of private discussions of the board members. I initially thought of Sandy Growth as she had worked in the clerk's office. So, in a friendly email, I asked if she was applying and even joked maybe I could be her deputy clerk. That is until a few weeks later when I was approached by several staff members who were distressed and frantic at the thought of Sandy coming back to the clerk's office. They disclosed to me

that there had been a separation agreement that she made with the clerk's office which was in lie of termination. In it, she agreed to not be rehired or reappointed to any position in the clerk's office. A seance of $25,000 was paid out. It was also discussed that she abruptly resigned under Clerk Massenill before a termination could be rendered, and there were still more rumors of firings from other municipalities. I was shocked and immediately saw serious red flags. This grew worse for me when her defense for coming back yet again to the clerk's office was a claim of a constitutional right. I felt that was an unethical excuse, showed zero accountability, and was a clear misuse and manipulation of our freedoms. During this conversation, staff asked me to step in, stating, "We don't know what we're going to do if you don't step up." I went home and relayed to my husband the dire and expedient decision we needed to make. After prayer and consideration, we decided that the ethical issues surrounding her candidacy were so serious that we were willing to change our family dynamics to allow me to step up full-time. As if the separation agreement constitutional right weren't enough to rally me, the current past reports of verbal abuse and anger management certainly galvanized my decision. We have seen this behavior now in the boardroom with her and John. Reports of her saying to staff just recently, "You people are disgusting and if you don't like me or how I run things and you can just leave." This flies in the face of our township tagline, "People are our priority." That is why many staffers have reported to me that they would resign under her helm. Obviously, no one wants to work under that level of fear and intimidation. But if ethics aren't your priority, let's look at the logistics and effects of that leadership style. Voting Sandy in would decrease staff

disproportionately to the one seat she would fill. Any past election experience gained with her would be vastly outweighed by the accumulated years and current experience we would lose lose in departing staffers. With me at the helm, it is a one one forone transition. In fact, the whole but Sandy has experience narrative is a complete mirage. Her experience is outdated and full of scrutiny. It's a very strategic deflection from the controversy she brings. If election experience were the end- all beall to this executive leadership position, then why would we have even opened it up to these candidates? is unconscionable to say to the citizens, "Hey taxpayers, we not only voted to rehire a terminated employee with anger issues, but we promoted her. Sorry, we know you wouldn't have voted for her in an actual election, but hey, she had experience." It's completely irrational and it's scandalous, especially given there is a viable candidate right here who has tenure, serves ethically, has a majority vote of the citizens, has the support of both full-time and seasonal staff, who has a record of honorable leadership, and who wouldn't be just a placeholder for the interim. It would be yet another mess our supervisor would have to clean up. In closing, I'm asking you and urging you, Chuck, please take into consideration the citizens, Jerry, Bob, Mark, deputy clerk, the clerk's full-time staff, and seasonal election workers have put their trust, respect, and confidence in me to lead as clerk. And my sincere hope tonight is that you will as well. Thank you very much.

Before you go, what is your party affiliation? Republican. Ron Richards. Are you able to hear out there? Okay.

Can you hear me? I hope you got to keep [clears throat] it close to your face. Yeah. I I I think I think you can hear me, right? All right. Thank you.

Good evening. My name is Ron Richards and I am a Plymouth resident. Thank you all for the opportunity to be considered for the position of Plymouth Township Clerk. I bring more than 20 years of leadership experience in governance, financial management, organizational man administration and board support. Throughout my career, I have served in roles requiring accuracy, accountability, sound judgment, steady leadership in complex environments. Most recently, I've worked at Wayne State University and the University of Michigan in positions involving data management, [snorts] reporting, research, and support of strategic decisionmaking. Those roles have required strong attention to detail, discipline, recordkeeping, and the ability to provide accurate, timely information to leadership. Before that, I served as chief operating officer for the arch dascese of Aana in Guam, where I oversaw operations for a large multi-sight organization. In that role, I led financial restructuring involving multi-million dollar budgets and helped guide the organization through chapter 11 bankruptcy. That work required financial oversight, coordination with legal and financial professionals, careful management of sensitive records, and steady leadership during a period when accountability and public confidence were critically important. During the CO 19 pandemic, I worked directly with the governor of Guam and her office as well as health authorities. I also represented the arch dascese in its work with the military community on Guam, including the naval and air force bases on the island. I have also served on multiple boards,

including Holy Cross Services and Gabriel Rashard High School, where I supported governance, strategic planning, and board accountability. Early in my career, I spent nine years as a high school physics teacher and swim coach at Brother I Rice High School in Bloomfield Hills. During that time, I also served as president of the Michigan Interscolastic Swim Coaches Association and worked directly with the Michigan High School Athletic Association. Those experiences strengthened my background in leadership, stakeholder coordination, and structured decisionmaking. In terms of party affiliation, I am not formally registered with the political party. That said, I lean Republican and I have been open about this in this process. At the same time, I understand that the clerk's role is one of public service and professional administration, and that office must serve all residents fairly and responsibly. As as for clerk or election administration experience, I have not served as a township clerk before and I want to be direct about that. What I do bring is experience with the core responsibilities surrounding the office, governance, records, record stewardship, financial oversight, reporting, compliance, administrative leadership. I understand that the township clerk is a voting member of the board and is responsible for official records, meeting minutes, financial reporting, and elections. I would approach that responsibility with humility, seriousness, and a commitment to learning township procedures quickly and thoroughly. I am seeking this role because I value public service. I care deeply about the community where I live and I believe I can bring calm,

trustworthy, and accountable leadership to the clerk's office. If appointed, I would work hard to support the board effectively, serve re residents professionally, and maintain the standards of accuracy, transparency, and public trust that this office requires. Thank you for your time and consideration.

[snorts] Brenton Baker. Harvard MBA [clears throat] my reading glass [laughter] my phone.

Good evening members of the board of trustees. My name is Brenton Baker and I am here to offer myself for appointment as clerk of Plymouth Township to complete the remainder of the current term. To give you some personal context, I am a 71-year-old retiree and have been married for 25 years to my wife Kimberly. I grew up in Pennsylvania and spent many years in Silicon Valley. We relocated to Plymouth Township 20 years ago so my wife could be closer to her family. We raised four daughters, one of whom is a graduate of Canton High School. I am stepping forward today because it is clear this board is currently divided on the selection of the next clerk. I offer myself as a neutral alternative and a practical way forward. Because I am not currently a member of this board, my appointment would immediately bring this body up to a full seven member headcount, effectively eliminating the 3 to three tie votes that can be so divisive. I am a moderate Republican and I am presenting myself as a professional neutral compromise candidate. I'm not aligned with any faction and my only side is the efficient operation of our township. I am recently retired and have no other business endeavors allowing me to dedicate 100% of my time to these duties. I can begin work immediately. My professional background is defined by high level strategic governance and the ability to execute major initiatives on aggressive timelines. I hold an MBA from the Harvard Business School and have spent decades in the technology sector making highstakes decisions at firms like Apple and Oracle. At Oracle, for

example, I was tasked with managing divisional strategies, representing 25% of the corporation's license revenue. I have a proven track record of identifying organizational roadblocks and executing rapid turnarounds such as when I saved damaged vendor relationships to reverse significant revenue declines and drive nearly 90% growth in key sectors. I am prepared to bring that same level of strategic focus and rapid execution to the township's priorities. [sighs]

I understand that the clerk is more than an admin an administrator. They are a voting member of this board. [clears throat] In the boardroom, my philosophy is one of absolute collaboration and mutual respect. I approach this role with an open mind on all topics and a commitment to listen to every colleague. My goal is not to push a personal agenda, but to work alongside each of you to find the most fiscally responsible and effective solutions for our residents. While election integrity is my paramount administrative priority, I also believe my familiarity with emerging technologies like artificial intelligence can deliver tangible benefits to this township. In the clerk's role, I would explore leveraging AI to modernize our recordkeeping systems and improve administrative transparency. By implementing smarter data management tools, we can streamline Freedom of Information Act responses, making public information more accessible while reducing the manual burden on township staff. I recognize that election integrity is a primary concern for this board. To ensure a seamless transition, I have already met with our deputy clerk, Paula Jefferson. I was very impressed with her professionalism and deep knowledge of our operations, and I believe we would work very well together. I intend to retain her in her current role, pairing her localized expertise with my executive background in managing highsecurity data systems at firms like data general. I am not looking to build a political career at the expense of anyone on this board. I do not plan to run for reelection in 2028. My goal is to serve as a steady professional hand for the next two and a half years to ensure stability for our community. If you are looking for a

bridge through this division and a professional committed to the civic health of our township, I am ready to serve. Thank you for your time and for your service to Plymouth Township. Kim Gataki. You can tell us how to pronounce it when you get for sure. Thank you. Can you hear me? Is this okay? All right. Um, good evening. My name is Kim Gada. just like Chuck Gedica, but we're not related. Um, and uh, I am a Republican and I'm also a US citizen. [clears throat] Supervisor Kermy, Treasurer Dorsitz, Trustees Buckley, Clinton Growth, and Stewart, thank you for your time. It is an honor to be considered for the appointment of township clerk to fill the term ending November 20th, 2028. first or secondly, I hope you have reviewed my letter of interest and my resume. Thus, I will keep my remarks focused on sharing more about who I am and how my management and leadership experience will help serve the residents of Plymouth Township. I grew up in Pawpa, Michigan after being adopted by my late parents, Royal and Judy Hefner, who are lifelong Republicans. I learned early the value of public service as my mother served as Bajapa Township treasurer for 10 years and later worked for MSU extension. My father worked for Van Beern County and ran and ran the land description department. My parents were deeply dedicated to wanting to make a

difference in their community and a better future for for generations to come. They were true examples of how to live a life of faith, humility, respect, dignity, responsibility, and integrity, which are all characteristics that I try to reflect in how I live. Their commitment to serving the community led me to engage in politics and high school, which continued while attending Western Michigan University. During my early years of my career, I helped a number of state and federal candidates successfully win their elections. Running and managing campaigns, as many of you know, are great is a great introduction to our democracy. With every campaign, it is imperative to know and understand election and campaign finance laws in addition to executing a solid strategic plan. This is similar to administering elections in the role of township clerk, which requires being highly organized, establishing a plan, setting timelines, and executing it on election day with the ultimate goal of maintaining election in integrity throughout the entire process. A lot of the role of clerk is being able to manage, delegate, guide, support the team within the office as the success of the team will result in my success. Additionally, I recognize that I will need to be trained on the state's qualified voter file system prior to the August 4th primary election. I am willing to take the training and any other training necessary to administer the upcoming elections. Given that the elections are just around the corner, if I am selected, I would retain the deputy clerk and existing team as their expertise and experience is critical to ensuring a smooth election day and maintaining the integrity of the process during this period of transition. During my tenure with the Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs, Laura,

I had the opportunity to manage teams and also lead and manage projects to successful completion. I led the team and software vendor to replace the state's outdated prescription drug monitoring program. This was one of the most successful state IT projects given that it was actually completed on time and under budget. When it comes to budgeting and finance, I've had oversight of program budgets and audits. As a founding member and current board vice president of the South Canton Scholars Academy Charter School, we have a fidiciary responsibility to the charter, ensuring that funds are spent properly. Maintaining records and fulfilling Freedom of Information Act requests are other areas I'm very familiar with, having dealt with these while at Lara. Whether for a state department or a township, it is important to process requests timely and seek legal counsel guidance on the more complex and sensitive foyer requests. As a leader, I strive to inspire, encourage, and mentor each person in a way that fosters collaboration and support for each other. Having lived in Plymouth Township for nearly 20 years, this is where my husband and I have been raising our children. Like my parents, I want to have a direct role in making our township the place for current and future generations to want to live, work, and raise a family. I've been blessed with wonderful opportunities, whether in state government, higher education, a startup tech company, and everything in between. Now, I want to give back to our community, take what I've learned over the past 30 years, and hit the ground running to make a positive impact in Plymouth. Thank you for your time, and I appreciate your consideration.

[clears throat] I hope [laughter] that [clears throat] Jessica McI,

thank you. Good evening and thank you for this opportunity. I am truly honored to be considered a candidate for this position. So my professional background is rooted in compliance-driven operations, records management, audit support, and organizational leadership in highly regulated financial environments. Throughout my career, I've worked in roles that require accuracy, accountability, confidentiality, and procedural consistency so that we could maintain the trust of the public and responsibilities could be carried out carefully and responsibly. One of the experiences that best prepared me for this particular role was leading a collateral services team that we were responsible for maintaining a vault of over 150,000 legal and financial records. In that role, I oversaw the integrity, the organization, the security and accessibility of highly sensitive documentation while coordinating responses to audit and legal requests under strict regulatory debt guidelines. That experience required a strong attention to detail, process management, accountability, and the ability to ensure that work was completed accurately and consistently in because even small errors could create significant operational, regulatory or legal risk. I also led compliance and risk training programs that focused on ensuring employees understood policies, procedures, and legal requirements. A large part of my work involves supporting audit readiness, operational consistency, and improving documentation practices, as well as reducing risk across our organization. I'm proud to say that we never had any audit findings on any of the training

that we provided or in the areas that we supported. As well as I helped to drive personal accountability for risk ownership in our organization by over 150%. I believe that shows strong judgment in delivering results. In addition, I've led the planning and coordination of executive meetings, large-scale organizational events, which included multiple teams, complex scheduling, logistics, communications, and deadline management. that really strengthened my ability to manage competing priorities, coordinate operations effectively, and remain calm, professional, and organized in highly pressured environments. While I have not yet served in an election administration, I understand the role of the clerk, following procedures, coordinating timelines, especially as it relates to elections, as well as making sure that they are transparent. Much of my career has been spent in a very highly regulated process where there was a need for documentation integrity, procedural compliance, confidentiality, planning, and accountability was essential. I'm confident in my ability to learn quickly and partner with the members of the team to be able to lead the future election in a responsible, professional way. What drove me to want to apply for this particular role is because I believe it would lean into my strengths that I've built over the course of my career. I'm very committed to my community and I want to make it better. Outside of my professional experience, I've served my community in a variety of different ways. volunteering in my local school as well as volunteering with a local animal shelter because I genuinely do believe that making your community begins and

starts with you making a difference your own self. Integrity, accountability, and treating people respectfully are values that guide me both personally and professionally. Regarding my party affiliation, I'm affiliated with the Republican party and the reason for that is because it reflects values that I personally have such as accountability, responsible stewardship, and operational efficiency. With that said though, I think it's important as a township clerk to maintain professionalism, act ethically, and serve your community regardless of party, administering those responsibilities and laws and procedures in a professional way. I believe what sets me apart as a candidate is a combination of my compliance focused operational experience, records management expertise, organizational leadership experience, and a commitment to integrity and public service. I bring effective leadership, strong judgment, professionalism in a variety of situations, and the ability to build trust and relationships through consistency. Thank you. [music]

I wish we could put all of you together into one team. Boy, that would be great. So, uh, does anybody before we start this portion, does anybody need to take a break? Anybody?

No. Okay. So, great presentations. So, uh, what we're going to do is the board will ask questions of the candidates in the order in which they spoke. So, the candidate that's going to be questioned first is Sandy Growth, and you need to go up to the um podium. [clears throat]

[clears throat]

One second, Sandy. All right. And we'll start from the left. Anyone that has a question for which left. Our left. Our left. John, do you have any questions? Not at this time. No. Bob,

I've got a prepared statement I want to read, but I'm not going to do it right now. I'll do it uh after all people have Yeah. Um, I was asked uh I've been asked a by um a lot of people whether or why I would not support you and I want to share that with you. But yeah, you got to get up close. Oh, start over. I will hold my prepared statement until later. All right. This is a little awkward because the people that are making the decisions, two of them are up here and two of them are out there.

Um, Jen Buckley questions. Yeah. Um, so Sandy, in your resume here, it states you have particular certifications and lensure. Um, are these current? No, they're not current. They This is my resume. It shows my past experience and what I've done. It's kind of like the Veterans Commission. It's um Sorry. It's It's like the Veterans Commission. How is that? How's it

How is that? We'll we'll talk about that. Um however, to be an accredited election specialist, all I would need to do is contact the state and I would have to go through some testing to prove my knowledge level. Um the notary public I don't do now but if necessary I can do that and but I was a notary public and um the bonded portion of it is done through the township. Okay. Just double checking what was current or not. I'm sorry. What part goes through the township? I'm sorry. The bonded portion. Oh yes. All right.

Am I correct? Um, you just go back and forth with questions or Yeah, until you're done with this candidate. Well, let me start with just a couple of snowballs for you, right? What was what was the best job that you ever had? Working in elections. In elections. Okay. Uh, another snowball. Did you Have you ever been clerk? No. No. Have you? However, however, however,

I would like to finish answering that when I came here in 2016, I came because Jerry Vorva was elected and he wanted me to take over the operations and that's what I did. So, I did clerk work while I was a deputy clerk as well. Okay. Gotcha. Now, have you ever been deputy clerk? Yes, twice. Okay. See, I was looking at the uh experience. Could you look over here? Um what page?

No, go back up. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, right right there. It says your deputy clerk was from 2002 to 2006. Well, [snorts] that that's a typo because that's a typo. Oh, no. I was I was deputy clerk for Marilyn Massingill from 2002 to 2006. That's what I put there. So that's the best of my recollection. Joe Bridgeman was deputy clerk from 2003 till 2008. I was here. Well, I'm glad you guys did your research. Obviously, I'm not perfect.

So, you you you ran for clerk from 200 three or throw us from 2002 to 2003. There aren't elections in the odd years. I I don't understand. Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out because obviously I guess the the bottom line is did the did the deputy clerk in 2002 and 2003 did you resign or did you get fired? I resigned. Thank you very much. You resigned? Yes, I did. Why did you resign?

I don't remember. Okay. You don't remember? I mean, I don't want to tell you something without factual details, and you're going back quite a ways. So,

okay. Well, I think the issue is on the resume, right? It says for the deputy clerk on the resume, it says 2002 to 2006, but that actually isn't true because you resigned in 2003. If I resigned in 2003, then I was the deputy clearly for um the three years prior to that. Um, I was the administrative assistant for Marilyn Massingill and then I became the deputy clerk and um, I could have some of the dates confused because that was a long time ago, but I know that I started working in the clerk's office in '94 and I did a lot of different jobs to include administrative assistant, absentee ballot processing, um, and then I became the deputy clerk. Okay.

So, I can't tell you exactly what year. Obviously, I got it wrong. I was trying to recall.

Okay. Um, you know, it seems like I've done over the years a lot of resumes and interviews, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. And when I looked at the resume uh and you got an incorrect date, I mean this to me this is important. If you look at the very first thing you say 2002 to 200 2002 to 2006 and you come back and said I'm sorry that was incorrect to me I would say you know that's a a a uh that's a major breach right for this one. So would I would you consider that that's a minor bridge breach or a major breach?

I would consider that a mistake. I'm not perfect. Doesn't Well, yeah, but you're going to run for Neither are you. I'm not running for anything. But you're going to run for the clerk and you've got the wrong date. That's that's the most important thing about it. And you got the wrong date and it and you got more years than you actually served. Wow. Are there any other questions? Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Go ahead. I have none. Um, so running for office. Oh, you're going back down. Do you have any questions? Because we're going around here. Go last. Well, we're going to go round.

Do you have any specific questions or are you going to make a statement? Sure. I'll I have a specific question. All right. Make it. You indicate experience in your four-page resume. Yes. You indicate experience in oversight of elections. Yes.

Would you kindly please describe that? But I want it to be relevant and I want it to be substantive and I want it to be focused in a time period here. I had to call the Detroit News and tell them that my high school girlfriend's name was Nancy. We dated for three years and we never consummated the relationship. This is seriously stupid if we go off track. So my question is focused and pointed experience and oversight of elections. Detail what you have done from A to Z. Experience and oversight of elections. Now please people let's understand a word to the wise is sufficient. That's what I was taught and br brought up to believe by my mother.

Okay. You got to ask the question. Okay. My question is what is your experience in oversight of elections? And if you can't if you have none, then tell the truth. You have none. But you're asking, are you asking the question? I'm asking Sandy. I clearly have years of experience in elections. I uh started in '94 working for Clerk Massing. Um 1994. Yes. 1994. So you're going back 32 years.

Yeah. But Yes. And uh when I worked for clerk massing, I started out as um it's because I moved to the township in '94. So she called me and said, you know, would you like to come in and do elections? So, I did precinct work at for elections, but her um her real purpose in asking me was that she wanted me to learn the absentee voting process, the entire process from application to sending out the ballots and receiving the ballots and properly accounting for them. And um at some point, and I'm sorry, but I don't remember the year, I went to the city of Leavonia because they were hiring uh in a full-time job. And um I while I was there, I because Leavonia was a large community, um I got some I got the certification for election administrator uh that nobody had here at Plymouth Township. When I after the deputy left Plymouth Township, I came back to work for Maryland and initiated the QVF and I administered elections because she wasn't certified to administer elections.

Excuse me for interrupting. And these are wonderful candidates. I I'm thrilled. I would, you know, this morning my wife looked at me and said, "I know you're wishing it was Wednesday." And I said, you're right, but these are wonderful candidates and I can't thank you enough for coming. Would you kindly please answer my question year and responsibilities and duties of oversight experiences in in elections? You were a public employee for the first time 32 years ago. That is that correct? 1994. No, 1976. 1976 you were a public employee working at the fire department. Correct. Okay. relevant to elections and oversight experience.

94 is when it started. Oh, 94. Okay. Would you detail that from there on? From 94 to current. I'm I'm I'm trying to do that. Um, when I came back here after working for the city of Leavonia, I was the deputy clerk and um, I don't remember the date that I was appointed, but um, there was another deputy clerk who retired. Again, excuse me, that was under Joan Mart.

Uh, in Leavonia, it was under Joan McAder. Yes. And in the city of Plymouth, um, I worked under Linda Lang Messer and again I was qualified to be an election administrator. I was qualified and certified by the state and so I did their elections for a couple of years and um, I came back to work here in 16 when Jerry asked me to come do his job. What year was that? 2016. Okay. And I worked until 200 I think it was 19.

Were you full-time? Yes. I was the deputy clerk and I did everything election related except for the staff that you know I mean we had staff and they did portions of the job too. We worked together and we worked together quite well actually. Okay. So you you might be a little bit humbled because 52-year resident Susan Bondi, who is here tonight, has indicated that you taught Jerry and trained Jerry Borba. He didn't actually want to learn.

Okay. [snorts] All right. Do you have anything other other to say about experience and oversight of elections? What I have to say is that I stepped up for this position because I want to do what is in the township resident's best interest and I thought having someone with the kind of background and knowledge I have would be helpful. Uh but I have not been treated well and um I'm here for the residents if you know if if you don't put me in the position I'm still on the board. I'm still a trustee. I'm elected. My life isn't over.

In response to Mr. Clinton, I asked at the last board board meeting three times. I had confidence in Paula Jefferson and you to get together and or for the supervisor to facilitate a mediation, a meeting of the three. Did that occur? Uh, yes. Yes or no? Yeah, it did. No. I I Well, the three weren't together, but I spoke to both people. Well, that's that's news to me and I'm very happy to hear that. I credit you, Mr. Supervisor. I [snorts] was You're ready to work. You would be able to work with Paula Jefferson. I hired her. We worked well together.

Wait, wait, wait. Operative word. You hired Paula Jefferson? I did. and we worked well together and we never had any issues. Um, the Friday before the last board meeting, I talked to Bob. I was letting him know I was interested in the clerk's job and he asked me if I would keep Paula and I said no. And I said why? Um, my concern was

wait, it is the law and the bottom line of every business or engineering decision is the law. The law is the clerk has the right to choose their deputy director who is an atill employee. And I don't mean to bore my 57year-old municipal attorney friend here, John Clark. He's fully aware and I'm glad I got him to smile. But that's the law.

It is the law. But what happened is um I went home over the weekend and I and I thought about it and I thought that it would be better for the township if Paula and I worked together because of her background and my background. We worked well together before, but before I knew it on Monday, I was told that um Trusty Clinton, Trustee Buckley, and and Treasurer Dor Chevitz had met and decided that Trusty Buckley should be the clerk. And then I came to the meeting and I was told that everyone was going to leave the office. I never had a problem with Paula Jefferson. Never. I just talked to her the Friday before. So, um, as far as I'm concerned, there's an awful lot of vitrial and hate going on and it is not reflective of who I am. And I'm I'm really quite frankly tired of the criticisms, accusations, and statements that are made not based on fact, but based on something we hear from someone else or in a a case of my confused dates.

Okay, that's my memory. Have you spoken one-on-one with Supervisor Kirby in this past week? Yes or no? Yes.

Okay, I have no more further questions. Yeah, I want to go kind of go back to the resume because one of the first things I do and like Mark uh over the years I've um probably hired about a hundred people, engineers and project management managers and analysts and technicians and have looked at thousands of resumes and I've never really seen this before on a resume where somebody says they have 10 years of corporate experience management and accounting services. Is that the name of the company? Bob, you got to get closer to the microphone.

Is is this management and accounting services the ma name of the company that you worked for? And what years were was that? This is a different process than the average process. So, I summarized I didn't detail everything, but I worked for several private businesses. I worked for Library Design Associates. I worked for Tech Street, which is a part of Thompson Reuters. Um, those are the two key ones. What [snorts] years was that?

I don't remember. So, is this a question that that verifies that she's indicated she's worked in the private sector? My turn to ask questions. I can tell you that I worked uh for library design from 1982 to 1992. That one is prominent in my mind. All right. That that was Debear, right? That was Dick Dear. Yes, I remember that. Okay. Any do you have more? Thank you. Bob, do you have anything else? No, not at this juncture.

Okay. So, saying I'm just curious what your reaction is to seasonal and full-time staff saying they will leave if you are clerk. What's your reaction to that? Uh my reaction to that my reaction to that first and foremost is that they never told me that. Secondly, um the there's no basis. I I've already indicated that there are a whole lot of things that are being said that are not based in fact. They're based on rumors and innuendos and hate. And Mr. Your separation agreement is a rumor. Let's talk about my separation agreement.

I wrote a letter to Clerk Vorva letting him know that I was I had just gone through an election cycle. We were doing civil service hiring. Um there was a a foyer with uh information from the fire department and I was getting ready to go on vacation, but Jerry wanted me to do the foyer before I left and I did. And according to a letter from the attorney, I um didn't redact a few things. I'm certainly not perfect. The bottom line is it really wasn't my job. It was the clerk's job. But I was I I wrote the letter and said that they were not following their statutory duties and they were no better than the people that we worked to get rid of. And I asked him to please reconsider and reminded him that there were people in the office who worked for him and to represent him well and that it would be it that it was not fair to make us answer to him and to Kurt Heisy. And um I took my vacation and I got a phone call and I was told not to come back because I didn't have a job. And then I got this letter about um inaccuracies in the foyer and I because I have worked for the township more than five years. The portion of my pension contra the township provides 15% and the employee pays 5%. I was vested because I had more than 5 years of service and Mr. Heisy and Mr. Vorva were not going to give me the money that I was legally entitled to. So when you talk about the $25,000, a good portion of that was money that I was owed because I was vested in the pension plan and I ended up getting it in taxable form. So, I had to pay income

tax on it when I should have been able to just transfer it. And I ended up paying7,000 $7,000 to an attorney to defend me in that case. But the fact of the matter is the reason they didn't want me here anymore is because I had the courage to stand up and say, "Hey, you know, we all worked for you and we worked really hard and you're not any different than the people before." And suddenly I didn't have a job. Suddenly I was fired when I was told I had to write a letter of resignation. And suddenly I started hearing all these things that I did wrong or didn't do. And the fact of the matter is I did Jerry Vorva's job and I did my job.

You told me this story and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and um assume it's true. But when you told me this story, what I was shocked about was that you thought you didn't anticipate that if you wrote a letter like that to your boss and you sent it or you published it, meaning you sent it to another person that you wouldn't get fired out of out of the private sector, I would expect to get fired for a letter like that.

But I I that's a very good point. Um but I wasn't fired because of the letter. According to the official documentation, I was fired because I made a mistake on FOYA. And the fact of the matter is that as you know I worked very hard as a private citizen to have um Kurt Heisy elected Jerry Vorba, Mark Clinton and um I thought since I had served as a member of the team that helped them and assisted them that I could at least be honest. And I don't regret that I did that because what they were doing was wrong and I'm a public person and I happen to know the law and I just made it clear and I I don't care that he fired me.

Honestly, I don't. It gave me um eight months with my husband who had Parkinson's the last eight months of his life. So I'm actually grateful. So, you don't think it's relevant to the candidacy today? Your separation agreement? I believe that we just sat in a me in a meeting where um we were told it wasn't even enforcable. So, no, I don't think it's relevant. But from an ethical perspective, I'm asking Thank you. Thank you, Chuck. So, complete your sentence. Yeah, you said ethical. From an ethical perspective,

I'm asking, do you feel that you're breaching the separation of agreement since it says that you would not come back to this clerk's office? No, that's not what it said. Rehire to be rehired or reappointed. No, it didn't say reappointed because I it it said rehired. says that and um we and an election is very different than I'm already serving as an elected official, which I have every every right to do. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't ethical. So, um no, I don't see it as a conflict and quite frankly, I'm just stepping up for the residents. I don't have to have this job.

But then why do you keep saying you have a constitutional right? Is it for the citizens or it's just your constitutional right? It's my constitutional right to run for office and that is separate from being an employee and that's okay Jen that's well documented in our closed session and the previous we have at least two lawyers and MTA but I can tell you there will be many people speaking tonight that just find that very unethical and it wouldn't happen in the private sector and I guess they don't your references your references say a lot about you. If I had been dishonorably discharged from the from the military, it would follow me. I was not dishonorably discharged.

And this is not the military. This is Plymouth Township. And Chuck, can you please tell the the audience to quiet down? We're trying to conduct interviews here. All right. Finish your sentence again. I stepped up because of my knowledge and experience. I was hopeful that I could help teach other people some of the things I know so that they can go into the future in the clerk's job and be comfortable doing elections. You know, have some background and experience. I thought it was a noble thing to do, but clearly it was not. Mr. Supervisor,

just wait a minute. Okay, next qu any any more questions at this end? No, not here. No. Now, John. Okay.

Perhaps, Mr. Supervisor, you would like to provide a definitive statement. I thought I heard a definitive statement from township attorney John Clark regarding this leaving the township of Sandra Growth. when he presented to me perhaps you would agree with me or not that there was no issue and in fact he concluded the 20inut discussion with us regarding the leaving of Sandra Growth and said you could appoint Sandy tonight

and Mr. Clark West. No, excuse me. Was that your understanding of what you heard? I mean, Mr. Trusty, I mean, that was a closed session discussion. We're not supposed to talk about what happened. Oh, okay. All right. All right. Well, but a legal position case, even what was written and a legal position is a public record. Yes. A legal position is a public the law is the law. And we seem to we're badgering the witness and we have asked and answered this question. [clears throat] May we go onward and forward. All right. Any more questions on the township board for Sandra Growth?

No.

All right. So, we'll go to the next person, which is an Buckley. All right, let's start with Mark Clinton. Uh, a lot of these I already discussed. What's the best job that you ever did?

Yeah. Um, well, definitely being in the military serving my country. Um, I was a weather specialist, which was a very fun and rewarding job. Um, it's very difficult. um high pressure situation, giving reports, accurate reports to pilots. Um most of this was done in Tucson, Arizona, and then I served uh four months in Honduras as well. Why do you want to be clerk? Maybe after the next maybe you won't after the next few days, but why do you want to be clerk?

Um well, I enjoy the job. I enjoy the election process. I enjoy local government. Um I've also I've been doing this for four years. So I have been doing local government. Um I also feel that adversity that I've been through in my life has prepared me for such a time as this. Um I enjoy the people, the people and the staff. Um they're they're good people. Um, I want to see them uh treated well and continue to flourish in the in the election office or the clerk's office. Um, and you know, my motto is I'm I'm trying to fight the good fight and I'm always going to try to advocate for for what's best. Um, and that's that's essentially why when people asked me to step into this role that I heavily considered it and put myself into a position to be a candidate here.

And if you did win, uh, would you keep your deputy clerk? Uh, yeah. I think Paula is amazing. Um, a lot of the staff and I have a good rapport with one another. uh her experience, her current experience is is really valuable uh for the upcoming elections especially and so yes I think she's amazing and I would keep her.

And then just last question uh after 2028 if you are a clerk [clears throat] would you run again after 2028? Yeah, I mean I'm relatively young. The gray hairs may say otherwise, but um yeah, I can see a future in uh in the clerk's role. Uh I think it's could be very rewarding, challenging, and something that I would continue to serve in uh for years to come. I ask you, I missed a question, Sandy, and I apologize, but in 2028, if you were clerk, would you run? Would you run again?

My intention actually was try to was to try to include people in the public who were interested in elections, teach them what I know so that there would be people who are qualified to run. No, I was not planning to run for I I I I didn't run to be clerk. I ran to be a trustee. I was willing to step up to help. That's that's what I'm trying to do. Okay, Jen. Uh, ready? Any more, Mark? No. Thank you. Describe your leadership style. Um, well, I would Why is that funny?

That's a relevant question. No, we're not going to go back and forth. No going back and forth. All right. Stay in focus right here.

Yeah. So, my leadership style is uh servant leadership. So, um getting down um getting down on the ground with the boots, the boots on the ground as I say, and being able to relate to them uh first and foremost. Um, I also I mean I've known in the community for inspiring and motivating people um to to purposefulness and that really rallies the team and gets them to work um efficiently and work to meet the demands of the task at hand. Uh one of respect for sure, collaboration. Um yeah, I mean I think that certainly summarizes my leadership and what people have described me as as well. I come from a background where I have a lot of leadership uh around me that inspire me uh to include my first husband was a a a West Point grad and an army captain. He led um for many years of training. he finally had the opportunity when the Iraq war broke broke out to take them to Iraq and um my grandfather was a sergeant major in the Marine Corps as a huge influence on me. I watched how they led their troops um and led their families and that really inspired and and helped me to be the servant leader that I am today. um as well as my husband now um Brian Buckley. He's a major in the Marine Corps and a sergeant for the Royal Oak Police Department. And they all serve with integrity. And that's who I aspired to be as well, to serve with integrity and to be collaborative with the people

around me so we can get together and get the work done that needs to be done. [snorts] Thank you. Anything else? [clears throat] Since we're working on resumes, you misspelled entrepreneur on the top of the page. Okay. Oh dear. [laughter] Entrepreneur. The next one. Your your microphone. Oh, sorry. We're just talking about the spelling of entrepreneur. Just missed. It just misspelled. I misspelled entrepreneur on one of the pages. Yeah. Yeah.

Normally, we wouldn't make a deal about that, but that's okay. Sometimes I can accept it. Wouldn't make it past the next interview if you did that. So, is that a major breach or a minor breach? That's a minor. [laughter] Okay. That's a minor breach. Yeah. No. No. Dy noted. DY noted. All right. Next. Mrs. Buckley, you indicated that you treat people with respect, and I'm curious to know why you've been so disrespectful to me when I've never given you reason to be.

So, I don't believe I'm being disrespectful, Sandy. I'm I'm sorry that you're taking it that way. I'm illuminating things that you would ask a person that's seeking employment if they have bad references from a prior employer. I think that's a valid concern that needs to be addressed. So, I'm trying to ask you about that. Um, I've had plenty of people here who have described to me um some of your behaviors that are concerning. I know I mean I know it comes as a shock and that might be hurtful, but I'm I'm telling you that's what I've been told and that's why I've been asked to step in. Okay.

It's that just so that you know, it's not about being hurtful. It's about I don't know who's describing this. I don't know what people have told you. I don't know who has told you. And so, I mean, that kind of leaves me at a loss. I have no idea where this is coming from. Plenty of plenty of the staff in the full-time clerk's office said that you came in and told them they were disgusting. No, no. Let me clarify that, please. Um,

I mentioned about meeting with Treasure Dorschev. on Friday before the meeting, last meeting, and finding out on Monday that you had applied and that um there seemed to be problems with um I didn't know until the meeting. Um actually, I knew on Monday that you and um Trustee Clinton and Treasurer Dor Chevitz had gotten together and decided for whatever reason that you were going to be a candidate. Um, but so what I said when I went to the clerk's office was, um, let me think of the exact words. I can't believe I don't I can't believe you people or you people

are disgusting. Disgust me. Are disgusting. Yeah, that's probably what I said because I was thrown under the bus by people that I've

How did I throw you under the bus by putting my name into the candidacy? I threw you under the bus. Throw me under the bus. I'm not going to argue about this, but the fact of the matter is I've already explained that I came to a meeting and I was told the entire clerk's office would quit when the reality is two of them already have quit and I'm not even there. So, so I I'm just going to say Sandy, I I think that I don't think that you think this is very shocking. I think people you know that you don't get a well get along well with others. Oh,

that is not true. And I really that it's not something to be resentful. It's something to be accountable for. And you need to you need to help allay the fears that people have of how you're going to boss them around. You can leave. If you don't like it, you can leave. You said that in the last meeting. But it's on record. I said that to an employee. What I was saying is if they don't want to work in the clerk's office because they don't they want to be able to choose their boss, that's not their right. And my feeling is if you're here as a public servant, you're here to work for the people. And there all of this crap.

You have to be able to work in a positive and collaborative environment. They don't feel that with you. With a few I always have. I have people that I worked with in the clerk's office that I never had a problem with to include Paula. So, I was I felt very thrown under the bus at the last meeting. I also I left my mother who was on her deathbed to come to this meeting and I was attacked and it was very unsettling and upsetting. Well, I had the same comments made towards me as well. So, a lot of people were very unsettled by how I was treated as well. So, I didn't make those comments.

All right, let's go to the next question. Do you have any more questions?

Yes, one more question. you um mentioned in your um in your resume that you were and I referred to this uh that you were the chairperson of the veterans commission and all the veterans that I have spoken to have said that the veterans commission had agreed to disband. So that's not that that's a past thing versus a current thing. So that could be a breach too. Well, we we haven't disbanded. We're taking a rest right now because we're not we're getting too much too many roadblocks and setbacks financially. When when we first established a veterans commission, it was under a different administration. Okay. And he allowed certain budgetary um items to come through so that we could operate. Um, but with Chuck and Chuck, it sounds like you've disclosed that with Sandy because I had that conversation with you and relate to that we would be taking arrests right now.

No, I said I heard it from a veteran. A veteran or one of my veterans on the one of our veterans on the commission told me that that's that you had disbanded and and I was told that it's not we have not disbanded. We've taken what's called arrest because we cannot do anything more for the hometown heroes here because we're not getting any money for it. I am simply making the point that this is it's not an active committee. You are not having meetings. You've canled them all for the rest of the year. Sandy, this was just a couple weeks ago. I I'm well aware, but you did this resume since that was done.

Okay. There's there's nothing wrong with my resume there. Okay. So, all right. Um, you need to move. That's all that's all that I have. John, a a a quick one or two. I don't think he has any questions. No questions. No questions. All right, let's go go back. Anybody else? All right, we're done. Okay, thank you very much. So, um, all right. We're going to be at the halfway point after you and then we'll consider taking a break for those that want a break.

It It'll be faster. [laughter] Um, I want I want to say a just a couple things. I'm going to withdraw my name. You withdraw your name.

There's a lot of dysfunction here that I just don't want to be a part of. Um, I guess on my you you all have my resume. So those 20 years where you see John Newman and Aana, I was a Catholic priest. So those roles just translated into what would be language you would understand. So I was a vicer general when I was chief operating officer. I was a pastor when I was executive director. Every parish I went into was dysfunctional. It was. And I fixed it and left. And I I it's nothing against anyone. It absolutely isn't. But I don't want to walk into another dysfunctional situation. I've had enough of it in my life. I need to work and do good work. I want to serve people and that's what I thought I would be doing here and I think I would be. But I need to take care of Ron Richards because the Catholic Church didn't take care of him. All right. I'm a faithful Catholic, but I need to be healthy and I do not need to walk into an unhealthy. I wish you all I live here. I love this town. That's why I moved here when I left priesthood. Okay? And so all of you, I'm with you. And whatever you decide, I will support. But I just needed to do that. I apologize.

Thank you for your honesty. [applause] ALL [applause]

RIGHT, GOOD. WE GOT ENOUGH. ALL RIGHT, GO AHEAD. WHAT? And then we're going to consider taking I want to thank you, Mr. Richards. You're welcome. I want I want to thank you. I'm calmly saying that you said the word dysfunctional. I focused on your competence, your oversight of internal controls. I'm a Wayne State graduate and I need to talk to you since I'm doing well. Okay, let me [laughter] All right, John. You're a Michigan State grad. Your your your resume is incredible. We can read it and frankly it touches me. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. Okay. We want to keep going or break you guys. You tell me. Board. John, keep going. Take a break. You good? No. Yeah. Let's keep going. I'm ready for a break. You want a break? I'm take a break. Okay. [clears throat] It'd be best if most of you stay where you are so that we can reconvene. So, we're going to take 5m minute break till 8:00 p.m. But you can go to the bathroom.

Call the order. 82 grade. Yeah. Well, I think it's over. Next person is well was Ron Richards. He withdrew. Um, and uh, Brenton Baker is number four.

Can I like my personal attorney up here? I might need it. [laughter] Not you guys. So, we're going to start on the left side here. John, go ahead. First question if any question figuratively. No speeches. Do you acknowledge we had a brief telephone conversation this week? Yes.

Okay. I appreciate your focus on election integrity. As the former chairman of higher education and the only state rep who's given major commencement addresses at four universities in the last 20 years, last 40 years. I admire your MBA out of Harvard. I admire your work experience. How does this boil boil down to be relevant for I'm thrilled that you're you live in Plymouth Township. I'm honored that you live in Plymouth Township. You're a class guy who could contribute much to our community and your dear wife even knew where Interlockan was and she is an alum of Interlockan. How does this boil down to

[snorts] [sighs] I'm trying not to answer the question, but the what you could offer to provide oversight to our elections and the clerk's office. I'm not that that was a little less clear than I'd like. Could Can you just rephrase that? If you were appointed clerk, what could you contribute?

Oh, okay. Well, let's see. Uh there's really two parts and I tried to highlight that in my uh my uh topics I discussed a moment ago. The there's the working with the board of trustees directly and there's working with the clerk's department. I've managed teams of [snorts] 45 50 people. Uh I've had managers of managers working for me uh and very successfully, I might add. And I think I could work very well with with the team. What I found is working with the cler clerical team, work with any team is really a function of treating people with respect. I believe in treating people the way I would want to be treated. I like I like to provide clear direction. No, no games. I don't do well with games. I don't like people to play games with me and I don't want to play games with them. But clear direction and I mean what I say and I say what I mean. So what I would bring to this is a a strong data oriented focus and a strong people focus. And I think those are two things that would really be of value to the clerk's office at this juncture.

I'd actually like you to expand on that a little more, but I think I should make two disclaimers. One, my very dear closest sister-in-law is a Harvard opthalmologist and we share a deep love of classical music. Second, number two, please don't interrupt me. Every time I talk start to talk, somebody on the to the right of me interrupts me. Yeah, that's the way it is. We want you to get to the question. Well, please don't interrupt me, Chuck King Charles. Secondly, did you not acknowledge to me, and I'd like you to put it on record, that you really have no intent to want to run for office in two years? Yes, that's correct. I I'm

You want to wash your hands of politics? I I'm That implies I'm getting into politics. I see myself being a administrator on the clerk side and helping to resolve issues on the board by being a member of the board of trustees. Heaven forbid I don't consider myself a politician. This is my little uh dabble in it, if you will, and then I'll go home. I'm 71. I'm retired. I'll go back to pulling up dandelions in my front lawn. My wife would like me out of the home because she I'm there too much now. And she's saying I'm getting bored and uh and wants me to be uh to be doing something interesting. So, here I am offering myself. But uh after that, yeah, I'll go back to doing the retirement thing. So you view this as a two and a half year.

Yes.

Okay. Of assignment. Um final question. Expand on what would what you could contribute technically. Technologically. Okay. I think I would say my my focus on analysis and data. I started as a software programmer back almost before time began. It was very early in my career and I've worked in product management since then and I understand data structures, databases. I work for database companies uh and the like. And what we are dealing with in the clerk's office is data. This is basically the management of data. And that's what I've done. And it's frankly what I love. It's why I spent a career in that sector of the technology industry.

Thank you. Thank you. No more questions. Thank you for applying and um I do want to just mention that it's a pleasure to look out and see all the smiles on everyone's face when you mentioned that your wife wanted you out of the house. I think that we can all pretty much relate to that. Um but I don't have any questions for you. Okay, thank you. Yeah, thank you very much for applying. Uh I think you're a tremendous option. Um the uh same question to you. Describe your leadership style.

I touched on that I think a moment ago, but I'll let me go to it again. I like to treat people clearly and with um the same with respect. uh even if you have to fire somebody, you can fire them with respect [clears throat]

and otherwise if working with people provide clear objectives. Be available to answer questions about to so that you can be clear about to them about what you're looking for and then hold people accountable to that. Uh it's it's worked for me for I don't know 50 plus years in the in the sector. I guess it's 50 maybe it's 45 in uh technology and I um that's what I do here. Thank you. I don't have any other questions. Hello.

Sorry. Are you at all intimidated by the scrutiny of this position and the deadlines looming for the election? No. It seems to me that preparation leading up to the election will require a lot of evenings and weekends. I've read that. I've put that level of work in, that intensity level many, many times in my technology career. It's just another time. And I I totally appreciate how important it is. These are our elections. It's so important to us that we believe in them and that we trust them. I'd be I'll be here for that. Thank you. Thank you for stepping up. Mark,

thank you, Brentton. I met you um two [snorts] days ago for breakfast. Uh I think we had a very nice conversation. I think you would be great opportunity. Uh if we just exactly what you're trying to say, we only want to do it for two years to keep us going and have somebody run at 2016. I think it could be a very possible choice. So I appreciate it. Thank you. Any other comments or questions? I'm sorry. Yeah. 2028. Yeah. I thought we were going to travel back in time. [laughter] What do you think is the single most important role of the clerk? I I'm sorry, wasn't on. What do you think is the single most important role of the clerk?

Well, I think it's pretty clear right now as [clears throat] we are approaching this fall election cycle. That's the number one priority is to make sure that the primaries and the general election go smoothly smooth less smoothly and um and without incident. I that that's sort of immediacy. Now, there are other issues that I think are larger or more strategic and those are ones I want to help with on the board as a member of the board of trustees. But if your if your question is specifically what is the most urgent thing, it is getting these elections right, which is one of the reasons why I spent the time to meet with Paula Jefferson, get a good measure for her. I think she's very capable. I look forward to working with her.

Any more questions on the board? I have one. What do you think the probability of applying some type of for example we use laser fish right now which is more of a crude recordkeeping system. Uh and there's a lot of manual operations in a clerk's office. Um a lot of room for error. Um and what do you think could be done to streamline those processes? Obviously, it's got to be within the law, right? I I think we which puts you in a box sometimes,

right? I I understand what you're saying about manual work. I that's why I made the reference to AI earlier. I've spent some time actually working with AI and maybe there's a role for that here uh developing over the next uh couple years. Um, I can't I I can't speak specifically about what specific processes inside the clerk's office I would change because I don't know them. Okay. All I know is I have dealt with processes in the private sector and I've improved them. I'd look to do the same thing here.

So process it's improvement is one of your driving mantras. Improving process. It's Yeah, it's exactly. All right. Okay, no more questions for Mr. Baker. Okay, thank you very much. All right, thank you.

Next is Kim Gekka. All right, we'll start. Mark Clinton. Um, yeah, same thing. Uh let's see all these covered. Oh, same thing. I met you for breakfast. I think we had a very good conversation. I think you're extremely smart. Uh and I think you could be very well. Um but just a couple things that you didn't mention. Um I mean it's an obvious question, but why did you want to run for clerk? So, I wanted to run for clerk because um in my previous jobs with the state of Michigan, whether it was working in the legislature and then working for the department of licensing and regulatory affairs, I really liked more of the direct public service and impacting individuals uh directly, whether that was helping uh legislators get legislation passed that would affect the communities and or um you know make improvements um as well as within the department. um helping individuals receive their license to be able to be gainfully employed as a nurse or a doctor, a PA, um to be able to start their business. Um there's a lot of um licenses and and regulatory pieces that law um carries out that really does impact the public and I just miss that more direct um impact and um public service. Okay, two more questions. If you did win, would you keep the deputy clerk?

You would? Yes, I would. Okay. And then last question. Uh, if you win in 2028, would you run again as clerk? So, that would be my intent. I wouldn't have sought out this opportunity. Um and but barring you know life or you know any other uh circumstances that might prevent me from running but that would be my intent would be to run. Okay. I'm good. Like I said we had a very nice conversation. Thank you.

So yes. So Kim, your resume is very impressive. Um you almost seem a little overqualified for the position. Um that's refreshing. But um what what would you find to be challenging um right out the gate for you in this position?

So I think what would be challenging is the fact that I've never administered an election and it is an election year. So there's not a lot of time. I'm going to it's going to have to be a quick learning curve which is why I stated very clearly that I would want to retain the current staff and the current deputy um for continuity and just to rely on their expertise and experience. I know what I don't know. And so I'm not afraid to take on new challenges. I'm not afraid to ask questions and to lean on those with the expertise. Um, and I think that's um, critically important. But I'm not going to lie. I mean, that's an area that I don't have direct experience in terms of administering an election, but I'm willing to take on that challenge. Again, hopefully the current team will stay on and and um, be able to help with that process. Good. Uh Kim, uh describe your uh public sector experience and how see if you can connect some dots to the relevance of that particular public sector experience to this role.

For sure. So, one thing with I mentioned about making sure you knowing and understanding all the l um the election laws and um what what you have to know to be able to implement the laws correctly and um throughout my career whether it's again helping legislators craft legislation um you have to understand the law that you're trying to amend for example and then the impact that you're going to have with a change to that particular law. And so, um, working for Lara and licensing and regulatory affairs, um, you know, we had to understand the laws that were enacted and then be able to implement those laws through regulation. And so, um, being able to just understand the policies and the laws around elections, um, compliance, the auditing process, um, knowing the role of the election commission, um, and, uh, just having that again understanding of looking at laws, being able to digest it and understanding and then being able to execute and implement those laws accordingly. um that's where my public service has I think would be an advantage um from that perspective. I think the other piece is that um particularly again working in the legislature or working with um in the department and the executive branch I've had to work with um various stakeholders whether it's in the communities around the state as well as with trade associations um Michigan State Medical Society Nursing Association all the different health professional groups all the different trades all the different business uh organizations And um so quite a few diverse groups and organizations and not everybody can agree on different policies and regulations and so navigating through

those different groups and interests um is something that I've been able to manage pretty well and develop relationships and many of which I still stay in contact with. So

um describe your leadership uh style. I would say my leadership style is more um coaching and empowering. Um trying to make sure that the team has has the tools, the training, and um what they need to be able to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Um identifying their strengths and then um letting them be able to do their jobs. I'm not a micromanager and um I believe in teamwork and when there's issues addressing them and finding a path to solving any conflict for example within the team or if there's any individual concerns again addressing them appropriately.

How would you approach the August primary if you were to get the job? What would what would what would you do?

So I think a couple of things. Um, I mentioned something about the qualified voter file. Um, in order to, I think, have access to that, you have to go through the training and certification. So, that would be something I'd want to look into right away to get that training through the state of Michigan. And then I also would want to talk to the deputy clerk and the team um to find out where are they at with the timeline um and um what are their processes. Um, I'm big on policies and procedures and so hopefully they already have pro processes in place. Um, if they have any concerns or if there's any gaps in those procedures, I'd want to try to address those immediately um for the August 4th primary.

Okay. Um, thank you. What type of time commitment do you expect over the next year? So [clears throat] I I would expect a lot of time commitment for this role. Um particularly immediately uh which I'm not afraid of again rolling up my sleeves and putting the time needed to um successfully lead the team and to successfully have um a smooth transition as well as a um positive experience with the election process for the public. and again ensuring that we are maintaining election integrity.

How do you plan to manage cutting your salary in half?

Um so for me, you know, as you can see with my public service experience, a lot of my career has been in the public sector and um I enjoy serving. I never go into a public service opportunity to make a lot of money. Otherwise, I would just go the corporate route. Um, and um, but I prefer service over making a ton of money. So, for me, I'm blessed that I'm financially I'm in a situation where I'm financially able to take a pay cut. Um, and so, um, that's why I would rather just go ahead and do the service part and I'm not in need to make a ton of money. Sandy,

I just want to thank you for your interest and for applying. You have a great resume and I appreciate you taking the time. And my only question to you would be what do you think about coming up here and working with this board. [laughter] So when I was at Laura, I worked with 30 different boards and commissions. So um and I could probably tell you a little bit about the personalities of every board and sometimes we fought with those boards um the department did. Uh so at the end of the day um it's about again respecting each other the roles of each other and um my hope is that you know if I were to be selected as clerk that we could work as peers and colleagues and set any of our differences aside and think about what our role is and what our authority or what our responsibility is to the public which is to work together and make decisions that are in the best interest of the public.

Thank you very much. Any more board questions? [clears throat] John already you already had it. You already No. No. Okay. Yep. Go ahead, John. Then raise your hand. Say, "I got a question." I I'm used to I'd like to talk calmly and slowly without being interrupted and get straight to the question. Let's

I don't need to be told. Well, I worked with Kim Geti in the state legislature in the House Republican caucus. She was brilliant. My dream team would be Growth Getu, but she'd have to devote full-time to this job as a deputy. Kim has knowledge of FOIA. Kim has knowledge of legislature, the the new laws that are coming into effect. Kim worked for judge that soon to be judge Charlie Lada. Kim is a 20-year resident of this community and I have not talked with her until tonight. I don't think she has had a Have you had a chance My question have you had a chance to talk with Sandra Growth or anybody else on this board? You you had breakfast apparently with Clinton. I admire that

and me. Have you had a chance? I've talked to you and Clinton did it together and Robert. Well, part of it. Part of it. Okay. Have you talked with uh Sandra Growth? I've not.

No. [snorts] I would like you to get to know her. I wor I have to disclose I worked with her in in my world of values. She was a lot of fun to work with. She was so brilliant. That's the second time I've used that word. Um, but if you look at her resume, you can see a connection to the clerk's office in that legislation and subject matter foc I the state legislature has just imposed so many regulations on the clerk's office. We're we're going to need a lot more part-time employees in the clerk's office because of all these requirements, because of early voting, because of absentee voting. I I guess I can sum it up. I'm not going to ask Kim any more questions because she knows how I feel about her publicly and personally. She has trust, she has integrity, and she has credibility. And we should be proud that she's a member of our community.

I have nothing more. Thank you. Any more questions? Thank you. Jessica, tell me the Say it again. All right, John, you go first. Oh, wow. Well, we'll let if you're not ready, we'll let somebody.

Well, no, if you'll if you'll allow me. [snorts] We have a lot of alumni in this community from Eastern Michigan University. I'm one of them. I gave the commencement address there in 2006. How would your education there and your work experience, your formal education and your work experience, how would that cont allow you to contribute to being a a toz top clerk for the people of Plymouth Township, your education and your formal work experience?

Sure, that's a great question. So my degree was in public relations and so I think that has created a foundation for my entire career because I think it really has been about um clear communication and building trust um with people. And so that in itself I think combined with the over 20 years I have in the financial services industry in various with all of these people.

Sure. I think that would provide me the opportunity to be able to serve the community in a way that is something that you can be proud of, that is professional, and would help set a tone that maybe perhaps has not been here in the past, but would be here. Election oversight.

Absolutely. So with regard to election oversight, in my career, I have overseen a number of different compliance programs, particularly the largest being our regulatory compliance at America Bank where I worked. Um, with that role, I had to oversee to make sure that we were in compliance with government regulations and laws, whether it be privacy all the way up to harassment training, a number of different things. And with that, I had to make sure that I not only understood that, but that could help explain that in a way that would allow us to have all of our colleagues, over 8,000 colleagues, be compliant with those laws and regulations, making it understandable and accessible. And so when I think about this particular role, I think about how I could use that same experience to help not only um you know every colleague who is really participating in that election and really overseeing it to make sure that it is done in a fair and honest way and that we're in compliance with regulations.

Okay. Final question. You hold yourself out in a cover letter. I managed over 150,000 collateral and institutional records, proper retention, accuracy, security, and audit compliance. The clerk's role is that of a steward of public records, election administration, and transparent governance. Please expand.

Sure. I think that um you know when I know you asked someone earlier about what they thought the most important role was for this particular role and I think that you know while the election is absolutely pressing that is something that is coming is a very near you know activity that will be taking place for me this is a bigger than that and I say that because when I look at you know you drew on specifically my experience of of that collateral vault that I used to manage is it's maintaining that trust trust of the public that whether it's just the short-term election that we have coming or the day-to-day activities that it's something that I could be trusted to be able to manage on a daily basis and people could have confidence that it was done effectively and efficiently as well as in compliance with laws.

Okay. The colleague sitting next to me knows this community because she's lived here and worked here. Have you spoken to her? No, I have not. I have not. Well, actually, take that back. We spoke earlier today. We did we did get a chance to connect. We have not connected previously but in before the meeting we did we did have a nice chat with one another and she does seem very like she has a lot of experience. Thank you.

Yes. I would just like to thank you for applying and um thank you for your interest and I want to assure you and the other candidates that um bas whatever happens with the outcome I am available to any of you to assist or or help with anything that I can help with. I appreciate that. Thank you. So, do I understand you're right? You're encouraging the applicants here tonight to talk with you this next week and perhaps they should talk among themselves. But, however it works, just feel free to contact me. Okay. You done? I am.

What type of time commitment are you willing to commit? So, similarly what to what other candidates had said is I am you I came from the corporate world. So, it was all in all hands on deck. I'm that is not something that is um a foreign concept to me. Um I understand there's, you know, a very big pressing election that is coming. I'm willing to put in the hours that need to be put in and that is something that I'm very familiar with doing because I think it's important to really um put in the hours when something is important, especially what's coming.

I don't recall what you said whether you intend to run I absolutely think that if I were in a position where I felt that I was making a meaningful impact, I would 100% want to continue to serve the community. You know what elections are like in Plymouth [clears throat] Township? Yes, I've participated in them, but not formerly running them.

It's not for the faint at heart, right? Okay, good. What do you think is the most important role of the clerk? I think the most important part of the clerk is maintaining the public's trust. And like I had said, whether it's the day-to-day operations or an election that's coming, it's really being a person that they know that they can trust to do the job as well as someone that they feel that they can communicate with and that is going to conduct it in a professional manner.

How would you consider applying some technology? Like I said before, we have a lot of manual operations that have been done the same way for decades. Yeah, I I heard your question earlier to someone else about that and um that again is something that having come from the corporate world that I have a lot of experience in transformation um in terms of you know I think you had mentioned I think it was like formal records it's interesting when I was actually as a collateral services manager we had gone through an exercise to take manual processes that we had and make them um you know electronic in a way that was um really transformative and so I have a lot of exper experience in doing that and I think that's really exciting but like you had mentioned earlier it's important to kind of do that in the parameters of the law so that way you're doing it in a way that is um not going to cause any unnecessary risk but really taking the time to understand and do that would be something I would be very excited about because I have a lot of experience in it Bob

I w it I wasn't clear from your resume whether uh did you have formal leadership roles over reports. Yes, I did. So, um when I was a collateral services manager, I managed a team of over 25 people and then in the talent development manager role, I had a team as well. Okay. And what is your leadership style?

I would say that my leadership style is very situational in the sense that for me it's important to match my leadership style to the actual individual and the job that they're doing. So, they might have different readiness levels. So for example, I want to meet people where they are. As well as broader than that though, it's really important for me as a leader to have a very clear vision and have my team help to create that vision so that way they understand. So that way whether it's a small task or a big task, they understand why we're doing this and how it contributes to the overall goal that we're trying to achieve.

Thank you. And thank you for uh putting yourself out there. I that [clears throat] takes a lot of courage. Um I don't have any other questions. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um so Jessica, what do you hope to accomplish right away in this role?

I think the the kind of the most pressing part is really just I guess first understanding kind of where you're at and what's going on right now. That'd be kind of the first part of it. But then after that is really understanding, you know, I know you have the election coming up and really kind of doing almost like a a Tminus 60day or whatever days we're at right from the very beginning to try to understand what tasks that need to be done to achieve that specific goal is really as well as also kind of doing an inventory of kind of where your processes are on a daily basis to be able to see if there are efficiencies that we can implement, quick wins, and then also setting some goals for the future so that way we can actually make progress um towards those longer term ambitions.

Okay. And then how would you approach the staff on day one? I think the most important thing when you are a new leader coming in is you don't want to go in there and you know rip everything out and change things. It's really kind of taking that first 30 days to kind of understand what's going on and kind of really just kind of get to know them and then really kind of doing that next 60 days where you're trying to start to kind of see like where are we at? What do we want to do? Like what, you know, what needs to happen? And then really then kind of taking um some time in that time too for them to get to know me because this is going to be a big change for them, new leadership and I'd want to make sure that they felt comfortable coming to me and that I could um be a leader they would have confidence in.

Okay. And then are you ready and prepared for the scrutiny of politics as you've already seen played out here and how divisive it can be? Are you prepared for that? Cuz it's not just about being clerk, but it's also about rolling with the punches when it comes to the politics and the posturing and and such cuz you will still be a trustee here.

Oh, 100%. So, I come from the corporate world and I'm not going to lie, I have never seen a meeting that was quite as contentious publicly. Maybe that was, you know, a little bit news for me. Um, but I want to temper that by saying that I do come from the corporate world where things are said and things happen and you work with, you know, maybe different personalities, difficult personalities, but maybe it is um maybe not quite as like publicly aired in a meeting that I would have um thought it would be. But that is not to say that I am thin skinned or um don't know how to deal with difficult people because I certainly have had that experience over my career. and I would not have gotten to the level that I got in my career had I not been able to do that. And so I'm prepared for it. I just had my eyes opened a little bit though. I wasn't quite, you know, aware that that was going on here.

People get real very brave behind a keyboard and they'll say things about you on the internet and you got to just let them roll off your back, right? That's it. Uh Jessica, thank you very much. I didn't didn't get a chance to meet you, but it's interesting how we have a lot of good quality people here. Um you've been at Com Bank basically your whole life. Correct. I had previous jobs to it, but yes, for the

college career, yes, I was at Com Bank. And I know that that Com Bank um they've officially merged from Com Bank and uh just um are you concerned as well as a lot of other people um that people that in like in Detroit will lose their jobs?

It's it's not a concern. It's already starting to happen. Has happened. It happened um in full transparency. It happened to me along with thousands of others that might not make the news. But if anything, I think that has given many of us who were there, like you said, for many years an opportunity to write a chapter for what that looks like. And for me, that next chapter, I'm hoping would be to serve my community in a way that I could use all the skills that I've built over my career um to do so.

I'm all set. Thank you. Any more questions from the board? No.

All right. Well, now we get to now we get to the fun part. So, these are great candidates. Uh this is a little unusual compared with what the corporate structure is. In public, you're going to deliberate. We are going to deliberate uh on who we think is a consensus candidate and how we do that is a little bit up in the air. So we can um somebody can say we can go down the list and see how many people vote for that person. We're not supposed to vote tonight.

No, no, no, no, no. This is a consensus to vote tonight. that this is not this is not a binding vote. It's a consensus intent vote. Uh because we haven't taken the resignation yet and so we're going to on May 12th, John, we did this exactly the case when these two gentlemen traded spots. All right. This is the way it was done and it worked. Are we sure we can't come to a consensus tonight and just move things forward just for the It's not on the agenda to uh It's not on the agenda to take the resignation. Okay. Well, we can just make a motion to accept. I'm not going to Well, we're not because we have to pay bills tomorrow. Yeah.

And if you uh accept the resignation tonight, tomorrow morning, we cannot make pay the bills and the payroll for the up next coming days. Can't do it. So, even if they're sworn in, we wouldn't do that tonight. No, we get we've got to be able to pull the trigger tomorrow on paying vendors and then next week also. So I do not want to put us into a financial box. So what do you want to do? Well, let's going to discuss who do you want? Uh let's go through it. All right. If you don't want to go forward, let's how how many people I'll do it.

Go ahead. Okay. I was led by you. I I thought we were not voting tonight. We Okay. Okay. Tim Get witnessed me vote 9,000 times in six years on women's rights, on the environment, on schools, okay,

and everything. I I I I think with just having met the people tonight, I'm thrilled to hear that there were some breakfasts. I think that's great. Um I also think we need to pause. Um the Sandra Growth has been under an extreme amount of stress with the death of her mother and uh I I think we should uh uh let this percolate a little bit. Has each candidate had a chance to talk with you alone one-on-one in your office? The answer to that is no. Correct. And I think that that should be something that should be accomplished this next week. I am very willing to do a seriatum motion next Tuesday night whereby we accept the resignation of Jerry Vorva and stop paying him and we appoint someone with a majority vote. Now, please understand I I come at this, you know, I'm I'm proud of being a lawyer for 47 years and I got a 57y old lawyer sitting next to me. It is clear that if there is immovable deadlock the in the law the the bills are going to get paid. So the supervisor has a duty in my opinion, it's my this is my opinion only. The supervisor has a duty to appoint someone not later than next Tuesday night, May 12th. And that is if there is an immovable um deadlock. But I think we should let I mean people have just become acquainted with some of these uh and and I'm as I said I'm I'm a little more upbeat tonight about

uh the qual the incredible quality of candidates. I did not know that my colleagues up here had had breakfast with them. I I I really admire that. I thank you for that. [clears throat]

It's not true that I can appoint someone to handle the bills. They have to be appointed by the board and it's a question mark because we don't have a disability resignation. So, let's continue with deliberations and arrive at a consensus candidate that then next week we can vote on after accepting a resignation. I'm not taking the chance of shutting down Plymouth Township government and playing gutsball. Okay. So, let's discuss the candidates.

Well, with all kindness, I would like to defer to the township attorney on the legal opinion. with all kindness toward you. I happen to have a different opinion than you. It's opinion and it's not it's not correct. Well, I happen to think the law is the bottom line and the law according to All right. So, John, okay, we're you cannot tell me what the law is.

Yeah, that man can tell you and I already know what the law is. So, John Clark, give us a quick summary. We we already know it's widely known in Michigan Townships Association you can't go without a clerk or a deputy and both of them are gone when you take the resignation. That's a given.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I agree. Yeah. Certainly, you know, that's why the board in 2022 appointed uh then trustee Auditz to a the treasurer position to be effective at a future meeting which then they accepted the resignation of then treasurer Clinton and then you were sworn in. So that was a process that was used in 2022. In some respects, it seems illogical. You think the the most common way would be you accept a resignation and then you appoint. Well, we saw what happened last week. Had we used that process last or last meeting, had we accepted the resignation of court had a 3-3 deadlock, we would have had a vacancy not only in the clerk position, but the deputy court position, which would have led to the possibility of bills not being paid. The supervisor and I did today have a have a brief informal conversation about is there the legal authority to back that up. I haven't researched it at this point. I know there could be a legal argument to that point, but I'm not prepared tonight to render that decision.

Okay? Because if it's inaccurate or it's challenged, again, that's just one one person's opinion. If it's challenged, someone challenges that appointment uh or or the resignation and now we go payless paydays and bills not being paid, we have treasury coming in, it it becomes a complete mess. Uh so I think I would prefer either either the consensus or at least appoint somebody to be effective at the next meeting or a future meeting so that at that point the the resignation can be accepted and we can then formally swear that new person into the clerk position. I think the one you just said.

So we're going to do a consensus. What? We're going to do a consensus so then we can appoint next week. So okay. Uh, do we have any nominations or let's I'm going to go through the list and you can raise your hand and Sheila Aker will keep some records and we'll talk about it. Um, uh, so this is like an inauus hands for everybody that we would this is like a straw poll. Do we have to pick one? You can pick your number one choice. Oh, sure. Who's your number one choice? Or you can nominate somebody that not nominate. You can let's go through the list. How many people

for one process again? You can make a motion to point them to a future date of a meeting. If there's a second, you could go through that process, too.

Yeah. Like I said here in the I said the board may engage in deliberations to identify a candidate. This is in the the agenda. Who appears to have consensus support for a potential future appointment. It's pretty clear. The appointment of the new clerk and the acceptance of the present clerk's resignation may take place during the regular board meeting on May 12th. Applicants may withdraw from the process at any time. We already had one. So, uh we need to people need to express who their first choice is and then we can keep keep going at it until we get to the a consensus. I wish to express my support for Sander Growth. No.

Right. How preparatory can you get? All right. How many first Precaratory is a word that is like wishful thinking, right? So, how many first choice votes do we have for Sandy Growth? So, there are three three people who are first choice votes for Sandy Growth. Sheila Aker, do you have that written down? Three people. Okay. Okay. So, so given that you're not going to change your vote, I'm going to go ahead and put my vote in for Kim Gada and I believe that Bob and Mark Are you speaking? Let them speak for themselves. So, what what are Bob and Mark? Have you guys already made some arrangement? No, no, no, no. Clearly,

I could hear them talking about it over here. Uh, okay. So, go ahead. What are you, what are you proposing? I'm putting my vote in. Are you Are you withdrawing? I'm not withdrawing. I'm saying that my next vote will be for Kim because we're tied here. Next. Well, no. Is it going to be We got three. We got three. Three people. What do Is somebody going to Let's say Jen Buckley. How many people have her as a first choice vote? Let's go ahead. Raise your hands. Well, I want to talk about that though because Okay, talk about it. Deliberation.

We're deadlocked. And let's confirm that we're still deadlocked. Not from last week. Let's confirm we're still deadlock. Okay. Is there still deadlock? Now you got to go to the next one. Right. Exactly. So we got three and Sheila Aker. We have three votes. First choice votes for Jennifer Buckley.

All right. So now um we can go. Somebody else can I'll read it off. Okay. uh first choice vote for uh or I guess in this case it' be for some people second is uh Brenton Baker. Well, now let me understand something. If if the if the my colleague to my right if she and I would refuse to vote in this straw poll then you could possibly elect a clerk tonight if you get four votes. We're not doing we're not electing a clerk tonight. We're getting a consent. What's this? Yeah. I never changed my vote from when I was in caucus.

Well, this is not caucus and the highest compliment that Richard Delblanc and I ever got was that we never changed when we cast our vote. That was it. Yeah. If you We're not going to get past the deadlock unless we change. Uh got to do what's right for the township to get things back rolling. So So Bob, you're back to the word deadlock.

Yeah. And um I think that um we have a number of great candidates. There's some plus to that. We won't have to backfill a trustee seat and go through the same pain. And uh we'll have uh a [clears throat] person that has executive leadership experience because this really is an executive leadership role. [clears throat] Okay. So, Jennifer, you said that you would change your vote to which person? Kim, I just wrote some things down during Kim Gatica.

During her interview, um to me, she sounded competent and capable. Um I'm confident just looking at her her resume and the things that she talked about that she'll get trained up right away and become highly proficient at this. Um, and I think she brings a fresh leadership leadership perspective that I think the staff will warm to and that's really of the greatest concern for me is that um, we can get the show back on the road and she'll be more of a servant leader to them. So for the for the benefit of

people just Kim raise your hand so we everybody knows who you are. All right. Um, [clears throat] any any other support for Kim Gada? We have two. Any other support? Ditto. Ditto for me. Okay. I uh we don't can't [laughter] get in the deadline. Just hold on. You know, I haven't made my decision yet. Um so I could be the deciding vote. Um yes, you could. Right. Power. Well, John, you seemed really impressed with her, too. Did you ask me something? Yeah. No, I just said you seemed really impressed with Kim, too. So, maybe Chuck isn't the only one.

Are you considering changing? No. I I'm I'm not No, no, no. No. All right. Um, [snorts] so how do you propose we get off the deadlock? Unless I change my vote, right? So, I have read what Sheila Akan, I've got to call her out, researched, what Bill Ikes has researched, what three other lawyers have researched. And what is that? Upon deadlock, the supervisor has the authority. I am not okay. The the supervisor has authority. Now, perhaps you'll see where next week I can show you here. The key words in MTA is you continue deliberating until you That is correct. And you continue voting.

That is correct. I'm not changing my vote till the cows come home. We're deliberating. I'm I'm done. I can assure you that MTA actually used those words. you continue keep going and that's what we're doing. So I I would ask you to let let this week be use this next week be useful for people to talk to people and to come in and talk to you one. Well, no, we can do that, but I want to walk away here with a a consensus and maybe it would get changed, but I hope not over the week. Um, so you want to get engaged but not make any commitment to marriage. Exactly.

You don't you get engaged, you don't get married the next day or that day. I don't believe in I did. No, I didn't. I'm kidding. All right. [laughter] So, we have a a three, maybe a four consensus. What about any of the other candidates? Do we have any uh support for them? Yeah. I mean, uh, yeah, they're all great candidates, but I think just that just she's top of that. We want to hear that's part of the deliberation. I I I will say some support about I would like Jessica Mati to sit down with Sandy Gross. I'd like Kim Giddigan to sit down with Sandy Gross.

They can do that. That's not going to And I I don't know how we can I'm try I'm tired of saving people. I don't know why the super Okay, the supervisor should have a one-on-one because you're we're all hoping for a more positive depolitized relationship between the clerk and the supervisor. We're We're coming off a Well, there's no Okay. The clerk and the supervisor, the former clerk and the for the current clerk and the former supervisor

uh had an ironclad power, immense power over this township. And that's what I hear from other people around the state of Michigan. and and we you know we need to go onward and forward to something more positive. Yeah, those days are over. I'm thrilled and I think that's why I am thrilled that Bob and Mark [clears throat] had breakfast with a couple of you. I'm thrilled that that Okay. So, uh good. Uh how about I didn't know that till tonight.

Could you listen to the township members a little bit? I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah, you are interrupting the township members. Unfortunately, by law is it is not the people in the audience that are going to make the decision. We have heard you. Um, you get to Well, you get to talk afterwards. Okay. You'll Everybody will have three minutes, but we're trying to get a feel for it here and I urge you to be patient. What is your name? And we will bring you up first. Who are you? Julie Harb. Julie Harb. Okay, great. So, Chuck, so we know you're voting for Sandy, but what's your next

Well, that's that's what we're going to get at, but I want to feel out how what do people think about the other two candidates, uh, Brenton Baker and uh, Jessica, I can't get the name. I think that uh, Mecci, there it is. I think Britain Scottish Brendon would be great. I'm Dutch. Hold on. He's talking. But uh my um concern is that he would only be here for the short time term. So he learns and he's gone. Um so investment and the learning curve steep and then gone.

Yeah. And the other side of that coin is that um it does make the seat open in 2028 so nobody so it's a wide open seat and uh uh then the public can decide who they want to be the clerk going forward from there. So that's the plus. I mean he's wonderful uh resource and they'd be great. Um, but the minus is the two-year uh two and out. Two and out. Okay, that's what I want to hear. Um, any other any comments? Any more comments about Britain Baker? No. Well, no. I I

He's a great guy. He's perfect. Same type of thing. I think uh the most important for me is that um um going back to our current deputy uh clerk uh Paula, we decided that everybody said uh that Paula will stay except for uh Sandy. [clears throat] So then the next person said, "Well, I you know, am I going to run after 20 after 28 or not?" And it looks like um

Britain this not going to run in uh in 2028 and everybody else said well you Sandy said you probably will not run in 2028. Correct. So the other people do. So I got to put it all together because my goal would be I want somebody to not only run for 2028 but going forward and I want to keep uh the treasur Paula. Those are my two issues deputy clerk. I'm sorry or treasurer. Um, [clears throat and laughter] so I still can't get rid of it. And I think uh so you know there's no there's no total commitment. The deputy clerk could quit. Yeah. Yeah.

And then and then they would have to find somebody else and they find the person, not the township board. Uh so you would have they have total right to select the candidate for deputy clerk and the only thing the township board does is approve the salary or or create the salary. So uh that's true. Um any of us could drop that tomorrow. I think in 2028 there's going to be uh a lot of uh change because I'm getting old and you people are not any younger. I'm getting old. Um [laughter]

I feel good. I think it's time I I really think that uh in 2028 um I'm going to look for uh the next generation to play a bigger role in the township. I was 42 when I was first elected to the board. Chuck, you were what? 37. 37. Um, and uh, we're under represented in the in the new residence in the township. I'm 71 now. So, uh, all right. Uh, any more comments about Jessica? About what? Jessica.

Well, I'd like to respond. I I believe the deputy clerk according to statute is an at will employee.

Yes. I have another old-fashioned belief that I you know you owe it to yourself if you can't work under someone i.e. the supervisor. If you're going to sabotage that person, you owe it to yourself to go onward and forward to another job. You suck it up for just as so long and then you say, "No, I have some morals. I have a red light that goes off. I can't work for this person anymore." Now, I I do not see Paula Jefferson working beyond either August or November 4. That's my humble opinion.

It would be a great help if she stayed at least that long. Absolutely. Yes. I love for her to say, and I have had nothing but positive working relations with her and Denisa. And you you got a personality plus lady at the front named Ashley. I mean, you need a clerk and a deputy that work together. And I I do want to let the applicants know you're going to be thrown into a full-time job

ASAP. 6 weeks early voting, 6 weeks absentees. And the people of this township want three things: service, service, and more service. And early voting is now conducted in this building. Well, we're we're going to do everything we can to help whoever becomes the clerk be successful. We don't want people to fail. No. So, we're going to do everything we can. Uh, and it's my understanding that you have tenatively reached a um commitment from Paula Jefferson that she would stay on till August 4 at least.

It's a ten very tentative. Uh, I don't know. my I'm sure she's concerned about her [clears throat] future and normal people want to protect their meal ticket. So, I'm sure she's looking around. So, we need to be moving and reassuring her. I'll say it another way. I think she owes it to the people as well as we to her. I think she owes it to the people. It would be very unfortunate if somebody just dropped.

Yeah. I hope she thinks that way, but you always have to be there things can happen. And so I'm hoping that it works out that way. But tonight, so what it does, it sits with me to change my support for Sandy Growth. And I I'm reluctant to do that. But John, I said I was reluctant to to do what? To change my support for Sandy Grove because she she can do the job, but we have to make an agreement and we cannot remain deadlocked. We need to continue to operate the township, which is not, you know, it's not a billion-dollar corporation, but it needs to operate. Okay.

But would you kindly please accept the opinion of the gentleman to your right who you've served with for over third 30 years that we are deadlocked? Period. Well, I can change that tonight. Yes.

So, I can change quiet. Okay. We We can't stay deadlocked forever. uh if we do uh and it goes to an election, we are running, we have no deputy clerk to run the election or to pay bills. We would then have to seek if we get the right legal opinion, we would have to appoint someone to handle operations of uh check approval or warrants u and running elections. It would be very very risky and stressful for the employees and potentially bring very unfavorable wrath and press upon Plymouth Township to be appearing to be completely out of control in a community that has such a stellar reputation for decades of being a great place to live. Um, so, uh, I have, um, a real gut-wrenching decision here to make, and I'm I'm concerned that the first priority is the township and the people who live here. And I know many people here will say, you know, I want to be, you need to stick uh, with Sandy Growth. I want to do that, but I'm torn. So, I'm going to contemplate here a little bit longer. Anybody else have any more comments?

Are you aware that two different groups, one led by Patty Posios and one led by Susan Bondi, have asked for a meeting at the library on May 11th at 4:30 in the afternoon and open to the citizens? No, I'm not aware of it. So, you're not aware? No. Well, then maybe we can let as John Clark likes to say, let's let that play out. So, that is this seems like a real political maneuver. I mean, we have great candidates here ready, willing to step up. I think you're being very wise and prudent, Chuck, in this and that I mean, this could just turn into a complete mess. So, you're willing to abdicate. You're not abdicate, but uh

absolutely whatever is best for the township. Uh, and I spoke with um Sandy about this. Sandy, what is your Wait, wait, wait. John, I spoke with Sandy about this. Sandy, what is your help me out here? Uh, what are your what are your feelings?

As I said, I I I volunteered to step up because of my experience and I thought I could get us through the two elections. I didn't have the opportunity to speak with Paula. Um, but Paula and I worked together before I would work with her and I would like the opportunity for some of these other people who are so interested to have an opportunity to learn a little bit. So, I'm not running for election. I'm not going to run for clerk in 20 this year. 28. Not not even this year. Oh, you mean if we go to election after 45 days,

right? All I'm saying is I'm willing to step up and do the job until the election and whoever wants to run can run. And I'm I'm not saying I won't work with Paula. I didn't have any problems working with Paula. And what I want That's is pardon me. Hold on. Go. It's new information. What? new information as [clears throat] well. Yes, you uh would didn't hesitate when you were asked a question that you would let her go or not reappoint her. Bob,

I sat and spoke with you very briefly and you asked me and I said no. And I told you why. I had concerns about the way residents were treated and um I had concerns about even the clerk's office staff, the way they treated some residents. So, that was my initial reaction. However, as I said over the weekend, I started thinking about it and I was trying to figure out if there was a way that we could make it work. I never had problems with Paula working under me before. Paula never had problems. So what I want is what's best for the township and I think at this point that is for Paula to stay clearly and I don't have a problem working with her and I don't have a problem stepping up just to do it so that we can do the elections and get through um the the elections this year. But I don't want to give up my seat on the board just to step up for a temporary um position. All right. Uh,

well, we Go ahead, John. We have one and only one candidate with election oversight experience. I'm absolutely that the qualifications for election experience is Sander Sander growth hands down. There's no question about that. It's just the other factors. I agree. 2028 uh mainly 2028 and the the deputy situation. Uh so the um would I don't I don't really say say speak into the microphone.

Yeah. I I mean I'm not comfortable. It's this is a more difficult position I've been in during my time on this board and it's not my nature. I'm not comfortable publicly being publicly critical of individuals. Um, however, people have asked me why I um won't support Sandy, and I'm going to speak directly to you. I I have nothing against you personally. You've always been nice to me. You're nice to my family. Um but the problem is uh um o and as I had mentioned earlier over the course of my career I've um hired a large number of people engineers technicians project managers analysts and I've reviewed thousands of resumes and made roughly 100 hiring decisions and I learned something early on that has proven true over and over again. You don't hire the resume, you hire the person. Résumés can be impressive. They can check every box on the paper, but they not tell you how someone treats people, how they handle conflict, whether they take accountability, or whether they can lead effectively when things get difficult. They can leave out critical information or mislead. And that's what matters most here. I agree that Sandy has relevant, albeit dated experience, but it's she's I agree with what Chuck said, no question. But that's not the issue. Um, if this decision were based purely on technical qualifications, this would be a much easier conversation. But it's not. This isn't an executive leadership position. The clerk must lead people, build trust, collaborate with other leaders, maintain professional relationships, and create a stable work environment. Those are not secondary qualities. They are the job. My concern is the track record we have both historically and even more recently

raises some serious questions in those areas. When you previously worked with the township, there was a pattern of strained and at time dysfunctional working relationships between departments. um the uh these were over recurring challenges and people didn't play together right and I think from what I have been able to gather is that you burned a lot of bridges in the township. Um so in any organization disagreements happen but that's normal. What matters is how those disagreements are handled, whether they resolved constructively, whether the relationships are repaired, and whether the work environment remains professional and productive. The history here suggests that those outcomes were not consistently achieved. When I met with you a few weeks ago in my office, I let you do most of the talking because I was looking for specific things and I gave you every opportunity to address past past issues directly. What I was looking for were simple ownership, reflection, self-awareness, some acknowledgement that things could have been handled differently and that you have you've grown. And I didn't hear that. All I all I heard was that wasn't true or that was this person's fault. I never heard you take any responsibility for any of the failures in the past. Um, and I think that's what matters because if someone cannot recognize their role in past conflicts, it is very difficult to believe those patterns will change in the future. I was also concerned by more recent behavior and I totally understand what you were going through and I I felt really bad when you left my office, but you texted me some nasty texts and you came right over and um you didn't calm yourself down and you just promised me 4

days before that that you were going to stop doing that uh firing off texts and emails when you were wound up. you just promised me and you did it. And you did it the next day when you came in to file that paperwork and you called you called uh Carrie Mor who's one works in my group who is uh um she's lovely. I mean everybody likes Carrie and you you insulted her. How did I insult her? You told her you want don't want to deal with her. You want to deal with the nice one.

Oh my gosh. Um but I'm concerned about this recent behavior because I haven't seen uh any change in the you know the clerk's office cannot function effectively [clears throat] if the leadership is unpredictable or volatile but then and I as I'd mentioned with uh days after promise me that you would change that behavior you had you know two uh occurrences in two days um and you said to your the staff that you're asking to put in charge with. You called them disgusting.

I Your character assassination is causing me to want to walk out. You're you have morally and personally your recollection of the of the talk with Sandy is not what she told me it was about. So I think you're having a problem with some memory. So I make a motion to adjurnn tonight. No. I make a motion to adjourn tonight. Not accepted. Is there a second for the motion to adjourn? Are we going to allow the people to speak? Wait a minute. I need to make my decision. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize to express what I'm willing to do. Yeah, we have

talk about [clears throat] what? But we don't we did I already asked does anybody have any uh support or uh uh can we get four people to consider Jessica? Right now we have three people that are willing to accept uh an alternative candidate is Kim Gedica and then I would be the fourth if I jumped in on it. So that would be one way to solve the problem if I agreed to support Kim Gaga. I don't even think that's fair to the candidates.

Why? Why not? That this is what this is what we do. I mean it's part of we need to have a consensus before May 12th and that's tonight. So any other thoughts before I give my decision? Yeah. True Republicans make decisions based on merit. But we we can't we can't get to a a consensus. So, of course, we'll compromise. You always do. Well, that's You misled me that that this was You misled me that we were not going to vote tonight. No, it's in writing. It's in writing. You misled me that we were

No, it's not not true, John. Read it here on the page. It says, "Okay, I mean, this is a power trip." No, it isn't. Page two of 32, it says, "The board may engage in deliberations to identify a candidate who appears to have consensus support for a potential future appointment." Okay. The appointment of the new clerk and acceptance of the present clerk's resignation may take place during the regular board meeting on May 12th. How more clear can that be? I agree. I don't mislead anybody. So let's defer to the township attorney.

There you go again with the township attorney to come back with a an opinion. He has a stable law of lawyers sa ble e of lawyers in his office to come back with an opinion uh on what I have suggested that okay I'm going to put my support with Kim Gekka. [snorts] So, uh, then [applause] then we're going to the next week we'll have to make a decision. So, now it's so this is the straw pole. Yeah, this is a straw pole. It's not binding. And I want to thank Trusty uh Treasurer Dors Chevz because he's apparently he has acknowledged he's a lame duck boat.

So, I'm all right. Now, we can hear from a lame duck boat. In other words, you're not running again. You plan to Hold on a second. We have 3 minutes [snorts] for everybody. What the hell is wrong to talk if you want come forward to say your name? My name is Julie Harb. Used to be Washburn. I've lived in the township 55 years. I lived in the city of Plymouth for my first four years. So, did you say H A RB? H A RB. Okay.

B as in boy. First of all, I was a little put off that um the board didn't want to hear from the uh constituents of the township prior to even deciding. But that's okay. Um I having listened to all this, I had a whole bunch to say and it really doesn't matter anymore cuz you said it doesn't matter. But um I just want to let everyone know and especially you guys, you use the the example of running in 2028. First of all, if someone is appointed now and runs in 2028, that doesn't mean that they're going to get elected. And Sandy Gross said she wasn't going to run either. So you threw Britain Baker completely out of the realm of possibility because of that fact. I personally was a census worker in 2020 and Brenton was my direct supervisor. He is the epitome of a word that all of you should learn and learn the definition for. That word is respect. I didn't see much of that tonight. It's very disturbing. He was smart, efficient, helpful, respectful, and collaborative. He knew how to work with any type of person and to dismiss what he has to offer is a serious mistake just because he's not going to run in 2028. Um, the other thing I wanted to point out is that there's a lot of election workers here. You're talking about the employees all the time. Well, I'm sorry, but us election workers are your backbone. And if we're not happy either, then that's going to be a problem for the elections. So, you really need to kind of kind of tone it down and and

think respectfully and and base your decisions. I'm glad other people have taken upon themselves to change their votes or whatever, but you're you're missing Brenton is amazing and he was my direct supervisor. So, just because he's not running, don't discount him, please. Thank you. I'm Dwayne Zanto. I'm kind of stupid. I've been coming here for 21 years. I probably We can't hear you. Microphone.

Okay, swallow it. I'm kind of stupid. I've been coming here 21 years. I probably should have ran for office years ago, but I'm too old now. I'm 81. Um, whoever becomes the clerk, we have some corruption in that office. I was I was charged with a crime that I did not do. And one of the election workers, they're talking about still keeping this person here. And that that person needs to go. It cost me over $3,000 to clear my name. And I did nothing wrong. I was sitting on this this machine right back here. And um another thing, this is kind of embarrassing. I had a prostate problem. I told Jerry Vorv about it. He went into to get himself examined. He found out he had serious cancer. Sandy stepped up and did the job. He didn't know. He didn't know anything. She stood up and did everything. He he didn't know. He laid on the couch in there in the in the back room. Uh I'm forgetting things, but I got something to read here. This is from Michael Scapony.

[clears throat]

Hello, my name is Michael Scaponyi. I wish this letter to be added to the the citizen comments for the May 6th meeting. It is my hope that the board will appoint Sandy Grove to the clerk's position. I've worked with her in the past on elections and she is above reproach and a distinct court of the law, not to mention years of experience. I do not know Jennifer Buckley other than some posting on social media. I'm sure she eventually would make a good clerk, but we have m we have many important elections coming up very soon and this isn't time for a job training. We need someone who can jump in now and hit the ground running. As for the situation with the deputy clerk, I'm sure Paul is an excellent one, but didn't all the other positions, treasures, etc. get to appoint their own deputies. Whoever is appointed should be allowed that same latitude. And one other thing, there's people on the other end of this board that were bought by Kurt Heisy and Jerry Vorba. Jennifer Buckley got over $6,000 from Heisy and Vorba for her election and I have it in writing. Thank [snorts] you. So, your final recommendation for clerk, pardon,

your final recommendation for clerk for Sandy Sandy girl. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Tina Crrager. I'm here in my capacity as a poll worker. I've worked as a poll inspector in Plymouth Township since 2020. Our elections require 100 election workers. Everyone in this room here is here because we care about elections and making sure they are free and fair. So as we approach this topic, we all have that in common. We start from a place of agreement. I appreciate the opportunity to share two concerns for your consideration and those are continuity and competence and I think that the recommendation that has emerged tonight will actually enable both of those. Um I we need Paula Jefferson, Jennifer Wells and other key people as well as pole workers. [clears throat] Um that if a new clerk did not value continuity or caused people to walk away, the system would collapse. There isn't time to learn, regroup, and train a whole team of election workers, voters want their voices to be heard through a safe and elective effective election process. So continuity is essential. um for competence. Elections are nearly sacred to poll workers. We are dedicated to making sure every qualified voter has an opportunity to cast their vote. It's the bedrock of our democracy. Under Jerry Vorvas leadership, workers were well trained, supported, and accountable. He set the tone and developed a hardworking team that was committed to upholding the democratic process. The next clerk should have the confidence of the election staff and be highly competent. So I implore you to promote free and

fair elections and that depends on continuity and competence. And I urge you to choose a clerk who will have the full confidence of the election workers in ability to perform with excellence. Thank you.

I'll be sure. Good evening. Howard Hammer, 10306 Normandy Drive. In the next 6 months, this township is going to have to have an election. Might actually have three coming up. We know the responsibilities of the township clerk. And in six months to bring someone who has little or no experience in a position like that is an example of not knowing what you don't know. Only one candidate knows what they know. You can call it dated but their election law is the election law. The last board meeting there was a lot of concern and I've seen it again about [clears throat] a deputy clerk and today we heard maybe the deputy clerk doesn't want to stick around. Maybe the deputy clerk found something better. Maybe the deputy clerk will run for office. But we're hanging our hat on the fact the deputy clerk shall be part of our election team without who without her presence an unskilled untrained individual will not be able to run an election. So what are you going to do folks? Have another election or are we going to contest an election? When low information or no information voters put a person in office, the only option the educated electors can do is to mount a recall. But when informed board members elect a person who lacks skills for a position that is only informed electors can understand it is a recall of those imprudent members who voted for the person that was not

capable of handling the situation. The prudent rule for persons says, "A prudent person has the ability to govern, to discipline oneself by use of reason, to plan ahead using discernment, and the ability to prepare." I'm not s sure how much preparation goes on in some of these meetings because it seems like we do most of it here in front of an audience. A prudent person wouldn't jump in front of a moving train or jump into two elections and possibly three with little or no background to draw upon. I recommend that you exercise prudence as board members and act in the best interest of this community. Thank you for your time. Hello, my name is Jennifer Wells and I've been a Plymouth Township resident for 14 years. Over the past eight years, I have served as an election employee in the clerk's office, a precinct chair, supervisor of the voting center, receiving board chairperson for the voting center, and I've assisted in writing and running all the new trainings. As we've talked about tonight, the most important question right now in relation to the clerk's office is how do we run a lawful and effective election in 2026? I would support the board's decision to split the tie and choose somebody that can fill the office for these following reasons. Elections have changed dramatically in recent years due to significant changes in law. There have been two major constitutional amendments in the last eight years that have affected election law. We've added early voting, same day registration, new EMS, ballot on demand, new trainings, a live poll book, new tabulators, and the consolidation of precincts among other changes. and it's short-sighted to imply that the clerk's personal experience in a role is the only relevant point of discussion. Elections are a highly collaborative process. The knowledge of how to run current elections rest with

the current staff and volunteers, not with the candidates. The clerk does not and cannot run elections alone. Lawful, error-free elections require a highly collaborative clerk who is willing to foster teamwork. Obviously, as we as we've heard tonight, the candidates themselves are not going to be able to personally train the 120 volunteers that need to be trained before August because none of them have worked in current elections. You cannot train someone on equipment, programs, and processes that you yourself have not used. Because of this, retaining as many of the current staff and volunteers as possible is the most critical decision. All election workers take a daily oath to protect the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this state. This oath is not a pledge of loyalty to an individual. It's an act of service to our community. And to imply that the 120 Plymouth Township residents who volunteer as election workers have not fulfilled their oaths over these past eight years is a lie and a travesty. Nobody filed false police reports or weaponized the clerk's office. To toss aside the staff who work late into the night and dozens of days in a row as if they are easily replaceable with an election looming is a plan that will yield a disastrous election cycle. The clerk's office is not a prize to be won and it's not owned by any individual and it's not owed to any individual. It is an office of service to this community that should be occupied by someone who can manage a team, cut the unnecessary drama, set aside their personal aspirations or political affiliation and espouse an attitude of service and collaboration with and to the residents. I would implore the board to assess the best clerk candidate based on the retention of the current institutional knowledge that rests with staff and volunteers in order to avoid a catastrophic election cycle. I would also implore the board moving forward to publicly denounce disparaging remarks regarding current employees of elections. Thank you. [applause]

Hello board. My name is Mindy Ostarski. Um, continuity of this upcoming election is critical as we have less than 3 months out. Over the last 8 years, new technology has dis been a significant part in our election process. The current deputy clerk already has the in-depth knowledge and professional relationships with the Dominion technology and representatives. In my eight years as a township pole worker, I can attest to the current deputy clerk has professionally conducted the elections, met and overcame challenges, and supervised the completion of all state requirements in a timely manner. The tur uh the current deputy clerk has through her exceptional communication skills brought about an atmosphere of camaraderie motivating the best efforts from staff and pole workers alike. During the last board meeting, an applicant for the clerk position, Sandy Grove, touted that her past experience as as a WD clerk, um she stated for the record, you did in fact state that when you came on and Vorva came on, that you basically ran it and you said the same thing today, that you basically ran the elections because it was your knowledge, not him, and you brought him along and you trained him and you helped him. Well, in that same light, then Paula, who is the current deputy clerk and who has the current experience and the current knowledge can help with anybody who takes on the clerk position, just as you said you did for Horva. Okay. Um, you also stated that your first act as clerk would be to fire the current deputy clerk and any staff that you should have an issue with. It is on the tape. I watched the tape. You said your first act would be to fire her. And then it was brought up how other people had issues and you said anybody who had

an issue with you, you would fire them. It's on the tape. Okay. Anybody who wants, they can go ahead and listen to the last agenda. Okay. Other than that, I understand that it's in within the rights of the new clerk to choose whoever her deputy clerk would be, but it is not in the best interest of the township to fire multiple knowledgeable staff members and attempt to open position, go through the hiring process, and then get new staff up and running in the next 3 months. When you asked when you were asked on the tape who you would appoint as the new deputy clerk, um you were asked, you know, for clarity and transparency, please say who you had in mind if you would become the clerk, who your deputy clerk would be. And you said you had someone in mind, but you would not provide the name. So when you just talked about standing up here and giving us transparency, that is not transparency. We are fortunate to have so many.

Okay, you're done. Awesome.

Good evening. Good evening, Supervisor Kermy and members of the board. My name is Lisa Caputina, a former resident of Plymouth. Many of my family members are still voters in Plymouth Township. So like others here they consider this appointment very important. I am speaking on their behalf. After your last meeting I was very concerned about what I heard from some members regarding qualifications required and more importantly not required to fill this role. For the record, I am also an election inspector who served in every voting process from November 2020 until May of 2025, while also serving two and a half years as an assistant election canvaser. Some of my responsibilities included reviewing electronic poll books, voter roles, and election day materials to validate vote totals throughout Wayne County. For those working elections, it is evident they are complex and as has been noted multiple times already this evening, there have been significant changes to voting in our state. Each voting process requires different equipment process and educational training and an increasing level of techn or technology um information. add precinct consolidations, redistricting, and the continued rule changes imposed by our Secretary of State and the clerk responsibilities are overwhelming, and that is without their other duties. Before the 2024 election, the Municipal Association of Clerks VP reported nearly 118 townships did not have a candidate running for clerk. According to the

Michigan Advance, he said many simply are not able to accommodate the extra workload that these changes require. I heard a a seasoned clerk state, they keep adding so many things, we forget the basics. That is a problem waiting to be exacerbated by an inexperienced candidate. I witnessed personally higher efficiency when both a deputy and a clerk merged their individual competencies. The elections and training in Plymouth City and Westland are notable examples. In my experience from working with them secondly, my experience confirmed there is a loss of voter confidence in our elections on both sides of the aisle. A clerk's knowledge and integrity are crucial to restoring that confidence. In a functional democracy, the role of election officials cannot be underestimated. You need a candidate who is able to perform on day one. The implementation of the August primary has already begun.

I respectfully ask your consideration. Thank you. Susan Bondi. Uh, I have lived in the township for 56 years. I have worked the elections. I worked under Jerry Vorva. I worked as to get some of these people uh Mark and and Kurt Heisy and so forth. I helped work to get them elected. So I've been paying attention to a lot of this ever since that time. I did work with Sandy Growth when Clerk Vorva took office and I have personal knowledge. I personally observed that Sandy did do the large portion of his job. Okay. Especially when it came to elections. Um also some of the duties that used to be in the clerk's office were removed and t passed over given to the uh supervisor's office under clerk Verva. Um I don't know why but essentially essentially creating the board packet and creating the agenda used to be and generally falls under the clerk's office. It is now being done by the supervisor's office. Okay. Um one thing I I' I'd like to say to Jennifer Buckley, Trusty Buckley, is I'm ashamed of your five minute speech. I think it was entirely unethical. I won't go into anymore. We all know what you said. Um, my support is behind Sandy because of her

extensive knowledge and I don't believe that supporting Deputy Jefferson should be a criteria. If Paula and Sandy can work together, that would be wonderful. But there were some gross inefficiencies or I would say uh malfeasants that took place during the last election which was held and basically deputy clerk Jefferson was in office but I believe she was running for office elsewhere as a result. I I don't even want to go into some of the things that that were done. Um, I believe Jennifer Wells was actually asked to do some things that I I don't know whether she felt they were ethical or not, but essentially it affected some of the people here that were running for office and so on. Um, so she'll have to speak to that if she, you know, wants to tell us why she feels that those were ethical at the time. Um, but anyone who accepts, you know, and uses Paula as their deputy needs to take a very close look at what is being done in the clerk's office. I worked as an election worker and was not allowed to actually work. Anyone else? So, any more comments that this was Oh, you're not. You're still Okay, we have someone.

This is really weird. I came here with some prepared comments. Speak loud right up close. Yeah,

I came here with some prepared comments that I can't go through because of what's happened tonight. [snorts] Uh, I will start off by saying that I'm very disappointed with some of the things that I've seen. I will tell the folks who are new to the process, thank you very much. I'm generally uh pleased that you're joining what's going on in the community. One thing you guys need to know is that right now our level of expertise is being presented as like this. It's not. It's [snorts] kind of like this. It makes experience that you can apply immediately through like November important. [clears throat] That being said, having uh younger folks who are interested in this is really cool. You know, it's something that needs to be done. The township needs to clean up its act. On uh April 9th, a Detroit News reporter accidentally exposed Kurt Heisy, I believe, as the Plymouth Township Watchdog. He essentially challenged a couple of our trustees to derail the obvious appointment of Sandy Growth. um right, wrong or indifferent, one of the points I want to make is that our our obligation right now is to get past these two elections. And no one has the experience now to get us through November except for Sandy. after November, hey, you know, all's fair, but you guys really got to stop playing politics and start doing what's right for the the uh community because what you've been doing is really shameful and I'm I'm embarrassed by some of the stuff that goes on in township and some of the stuff that happens to good people in this township. I'm not saying you guys do it. I'm saying you guys suffer because of it. You guys need to knock it off. you need to take the Plymouth tell the Plymouth Township watchdog to knock it off because he's being abusive and he's abusing everyone in this damn room. And when I hear I

hear reports of people who are in secret rooms reporting on people, that's really bad. And I won't say names, but I know who they are. In any event, Chuck, good luck. [applause] Well, I'm blocked from that site, so I don't even see I'm blocked from that site, so I don't even see [clears throat] what's on it.

Good evening, trustees. Bill likes Hidden Creek. I wanted to first off thank two trustees plus four residents for putting the time forward on resumes, coming forward and speaking here tonight. It was it was honorable. We learned something, which is good. Okay. Uh, following the MTI guidance on the resignation by Supervisor Curry is prudent and the right thing to do.

Following MTA's recommendation on the non-resignation is prudent and the right thing to do. It protects the township, which was also good. I also want to thank John Stewart. Last week, three times he abdicated that Sandy and Paula Jefferson speak, right? Which is actually a good thing to do. And I I did want to have a moment of silence here for Sy's mom for five seconds. how she did what she did two weeks ago in here is incredible. Okay, it's backbone. It's the strength. It's exactly the type of leadership that this place needs. Okay, someone that does not flinch under pressure and stress she was under. What I didn't hear tonight, okay, from five of the candidates are what are the duties the clerk or the deputy clerk, there's actually 25 duties that they're responsible for. couple touched on one or two which is great but really I was hoping to hear a 30-day a 60-day a 90-day plan like I've had to prepare for every job I had. I didn't hear that. I we have people that have some knowledge which could work but the fact is we've got less than 90 days to get six precincts lined up trained with an AV absentee voting board. Okay, that's kind of important because everything goes back to the law and the data. And the data shows that 70% of all votes that were conducted back in 2024 in this township were AV. That's extremely important. Yet only one candidate had the experience of doing the absentee voting board. Now, I know a little about that because I've done the benchmarking working with Ann Arbor and Detroit and I've done the 2024 elections and 2025 in Detroit. and I'm one of the few 25% Republicans that will drive down there to help them. I know what they do. I know the best practices. I know how challenging it can be and how they are trained is extremely important. So for the three trustees that really don't have the knowledge or competence, I would strongly want to listen to the one

that does. Okay. The last week, right, Paul was most important. Mark Clinton, I give you credit, right? Uh you were a hell of a good pitcher. You knew the baseball was 2.94 in. It has to cross a 17in plate between the knees and the letters in college and in kids and in in college and pros. It's the waste. Okay. Here tonight, you have to touch all three bases in order to touch home plate. If you don't, you're out. Those are the rules. That's the law. We have to follow the rules in the law. The path forward, Mark Clinton tonight with Sandy Plus Paula. I give you credit for bringing up again. And I do think that other candidates should have time to speak with Sandy Grove and come back next week. To have a straw poll here was not the right thing to do. The three of you need to back off and and get back to step one. Thank you. [music] Anyone else?

All right. Uh May 12th. We'll see what happens. Uh do we have a any board comments? Anyone else want to make a comment up here? Mark? No, I'm all set. Jen, no. I'm all set for tonight. Bob, no. Thank you. Sandy? Uh John Stewart?

Yes, please. Uh, apparently there will be a meeting at on Monday at the library at 4:30 concerned citizens, uh, different groups. Um, I got a text message from the first vice president of New York Life Insurance. She's a 51-year-old woman who lives in Eaton Estates in a million-doll condo alone. And she her neighbors are Dick Burton and Don Son. She indicated to me we're throwing words around harassing, bullying, and assault. My wife and I have known this person. Her name is Kim Fiser. Uh she strongly supports Sandy Growth for clerk. Finally, tonight I'm going to Holland to see my grandkids and the tulip time. And you know what? Holland has a lesser population than the city and township of Plymouth. And the tulip festival in 10 days nets $52 million impact to the local economy. Why aren't we doing something like that here? Our culture is music and I I I'm so grateful for Sam Plyl and what's going to happen in Kellogg Park. But just if Holland, Michigan can do it, we can do it. We got to, you know, kinder words come together and uh I do support Bill I completely and I'm great very grateful for his research.

We have a motion for adjournment. So moved. Second. All in favor? I I