Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

I'm calling September 1st, 2026 meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals to order. We'll begin with roll call.

Garner. Ritchie. Here. Wendell. Here. Secord.

Here.

Jacobs.

Here. Okay. The minutes of the last regular meeting of August 4th, 2026 were distributed on the Board to the Board of Members via email or mail. Are there any corrections? If there's none, I'll obtain a motion for approval of the minutes, or if there's something to be changed, let us know.

Motion to approve. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Thank you. First on the agenda is BZA 2026-30. And I see that Ty is slacking again.

Ty is still soccer season. So Ty is occupied. Oh, so that's an excuse. Well, you can take it up with him. No, he don't report to me. Football sends it to him. If he misses, he doesn't coach a football team. He coaches a soccer team. Very good. this is more three either way i'm i'm here tonight and remember i am just a messenger none of this is my work product um oh yep there we go so are you adam and jessica gotcha so the first case is bza 2026-30 adam and jessica slider A variance of development standards to permit a home occupation within an accessory structure at the property located at that address. Identified as parcel 50-42-18-000-012.003-009. it is zoned r1 a rural residential district way out there yes the applicant is seeking a permit to permit a home occupation within an accessory structure here's an image uh from beacon gis site of the property uh here are some photos taken by staff there's the mailbox this is looking one way down the road but that's looking the opposite way back in the road Again, I'm the messenger. None of this is my work product. It's in the county anyway, so I don't know what the rules are. Here's another photo of the property. Here's the driveway and space out in front of the house. So I'm going to move to my screen so I can actually see what I'm reading. The applicant is seeking to permit a home occupation within a proposed accessory structure. The property is owned our 1 world residential patient uses are permitted as an accessory use of property to a residential dwelling, but are clearly incidental and secondary to the use of the dwelling for residential purposes. Home occupations shall not occupy an area in excess of 25% of all floor area of the dwelling. Therefore, without the indication of an accessory structure being permissible, staff recommend this case come before the BZA for interpretation and request of permission. The home occupation would be for a massage and aesthetic business. The business would take up the front 20 by 35 feet of a 35 by 70 foot accessory structure. The residual of the structure is intended to be used for personal shop and storage space. So your decision criteria are general welfare, adjacent property, and practical difficulty. For criteria one, the approval of reduction for this home occupation and accessory structure should not be injurious to the public health, safety, and general welfare of the community. Criteria two, the use and value of the adjacent property should not be substantially impacted by this proposal. criteria three the ordinance would not permit the proposal, but would allow the use in a residence, so the recommendation from staff. Based on the information provided in review of the proposal, staff would recommend approval of the request for the owner to have their home occupation within an accessory structure as stipulated within their application. Staff is currently working on a comprehensive update to the land use table and associated development standards, which includes home occupation. One of the anticipated amendments would allow for this proposal without additional variance, allowing for individuals to have their home occupation within the residence or associated accessory structure. So it is now up for board determination with a staff recommendation of approval.

Thank you. And we have a process we have to run through guys. So it's just, don't worry about it. Um, with petitioners represented, please step forward to the podium. Please state your name and address for the record. Yeah, coming up, you can come join.

My name is Adam slider. I live at 1, 4, 4, 1, 7, 5 C road. And, uh. I am yeah, and you might have a massage. Yes, so currently she works out of her home in the dwelling, but we would like to separate it from the home and put it in the proposed accessory building just to kind of give some separation.

Sure. Any questions, anybody?

The only question is because it will occupy more than 25%.

We can still make approval of it.

i mean i didn't do the math uh you had the dimensions yeah yeah i mean it was quite absolutely the only question that it is it'll be over 25 of the accessory structure but if you add in the floor space of the home and the accessory it's well below it's like 16 okay and as indicated one of the amendments that uh we will be proposing is basically to revise the ordinance that would automatically allow this without a variance so i'd have to have one for my home based on my pole one or two for whatever home occupation you intend to operate.

You guys have any other questions? Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion to open public hearing.

Second.

First and second, all in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. Anybody online or anybody in the audience like to speak against the proposal? If so, step forward to the podium and state your name and address. Anybody online? Anybody in the audience want to? Good. Anybody in the audience like to step forward and speak in favor of the proposal? Please step forward to the podium. Make your name and address. Nobody? I'll entertain a motion to close the board. Wait, wait, wait. Oh, you have something?

I don't want to speak in favor or against. I just have a couple questions. Sure. How many people are you looking to have in here? Because if you're bringing public into it, You're changing the class of the building.

And it's going to be appointment-based only, so there will be only one client at a time. They have to basically schedule ahead before they can go to events. We'll only go to one customer. All right.

That makes sense. I figured that was the case. That's a good question. Thank you. All right.

I hear you.

Very good. I'll make a motion to close the meeting. Motion made. All in favor say aye. Aye. Okay.

Did I make a? Yes. I motion we approve and agreeing the staff's recommendation.

Got a motion to approve. Second. Second. Roll call. Any more discussion? Roll call.

Secor. Yes. Ritchie. Yes. Wendell. Yes. Jacob.

Yes. Thank you, guys. You have to stay for the whole meeting tonight. You can't just leave. You can leave. Do you have a card?

I do.

Good. Thank you. Would it be awkward to ask if they want to buy a ticket? Thank you guys. Thank you. And you don't have to stay. I'm joking. Next on the agenda is BZA 2026-31. I like the easy ones. Yeah.

2026-31, Calvin R. Bailey, 921 West Jefferson Street, Plymouth, Indiana, 46563. A variance of development standards to permit attached roof signs at the property located at 921 West Jefferson Street, Plymouth, Indiana. Identified as parcel 50-32-05-104-367-000-019. I think one of those should have been a dot and not a dash, but that's okay. uh it is zoned c1 general commercial district the request is uh the applicant is seeking to permit roof mounted signs and here is the gis image of the property uh photos from the street looking the other direction down jefferson street uh photo of one side of the building more from the front Another photo from the front standing across the street. Another angle on the front of the building. All photos taken from across. The next images are images, this one is the proposed signage. Showing two more signs, right? Yeah, it appears one on the roof. on the left-hand side indicating furniture and one on the right-hand side indicating mattress. These are some Google images of the property taken at different times.

point you got a barrier around it that's been a long time they had a barrier around that fire extreme hydrant it's cool different color there yeah okay for the analysis

The applicant is seeking to permit two roof-mounted signs. For the application, the business is going through a comprehensive exterior renovation and modernization of the property. A portion of that plan is for two roof-mounted signs indicating two of the departments that they have. The property is zoned C1, General Commercial District. Sign regulations permit the C1 district to have wall signs, marquee and canopy signs, monument signs, ground signs, pole signs, time and temperature signs, or electronic message signs. Reformatted signs are expressly prohibited. The district standard permits up to 2 signs per business. The applicant has an existing poll sign that has turned into a monument sign in the timeframe of 2007 to 2009. Poll signs are limited to 20 feet in height and a maximum 75 square foot of area. Monument signs are limited to 8 feet in height and 32 square feet in area. The existing sign may or may not exceed the 24 height limitation for pole sign, but does exceed the 8-foot monument sign height limitation. The main facility sign has evolved over time and has been updated with different designs. Based on street view imagery, there have been a series of rotating signs attached to the walls of the building, secured to adjacent fence or large red Adirondack chair, put out as banners and message board trailers. Based on drawing submitted in the application proposals to the building commissioner, it appears as though there are additional signs outside of the 2 reformatted signs that are being considered as a part of the application. Those include, but are not limited to 2 signs on the North wall adjacent to the parking lot. and an electronic message sign above a couple of windows. The existing sign would be considered two separate signs because the upper two signs collectively exceed the 32 square foot maximum area and the lower space between the two posts is used as a second sign. So your decision criteria are general welfare, adjacent property, and practical difficulty. For criteria one, the approval of the reformatted signs should not be injurious to the public health, safety, and general welfare of the community. Criteria two, the use and value of adjacent property should not be substantially impacted by this proposal. Criteria three, the ordinance would not permit the proposal and is entirely self-imposed with plans to add other signs to the facility in ways that are more permissible than the proposal. So the recommendation from staff Based on the information provided in review of the proposal, staff would recommend the request be denied for the roof mounted type signs. Proposal is self-imposed and details of the proposed application and the other intended sign proposals contradict the very reason for the request by the applicant, which indicated the building has a long low profile facade with limited architecturally suitable wall area for prominent department identification. Existing windows, the primary entrance, functional building elements, and the proportions of the facade substantially limit locations where prominent identification signage can be placed without overcrowding the storefront or compromising the coordinated design. So the board, it's up for board determination with a staff recommendation of denial. Thank you.

Will the petitioners who are represented please step forward to the podium. Please state your name and address for the record.

Brian Robinson, 921 West Jefferson Street on the Indiana.

You understand all these different signs that were allowed, not allowed. You guys seem to be over exceeding them now. Okay. With all the stuff on the walls, the banners, there's a lot of signage there comparably.

Well, so if you see the recent pictures, we took that whole wall down separating the 2 buildings.

Yeah.

And then we re, asphalt and our lot and the neighbors lot to make it look better. No, the sort of sign. That's on there on that image are just some things we're playing around with. We have, we purchased the mattress sign and we've been trying it on different places, but it just doesn't. Stand out to where we can, we can see it and that's when we looked up to propose to put it on the roof.

Yeah.

And it's 19 inches by 8 foot. So it's not, it's not very big. We didn't want gaudy or anything like that. We just wanted something to really say what what we did and whether we like, or not, we follow them.

The rules and regulations thoughts discussions. We'll still open it up.

How long is it? It's been business how long they've been in that place on time 30 plus 30 plus years.

Why now?

Brian's taking the torch now.

Oh, so I'm taking over as a store manager and I'm just trying to get us back into that digital digital age, bring in some new stuff, make it look different. So Calvin's been. Gracious enough to re, we did the parking lot. We did all the letters. We pulled the banners off. There's still 1 banner on the front, but that's coming down. I'm trying to get the banners trying to get all the screw holes. Off the side of the building and get something more permanently mounted and that was where we were looking at a lighted sign somewhere. Now, we, we do have the 1 in the front, that main monument sign, but we didn't have people fighting you guys. What we're what I'm proposing and what we're working on right now is. Quickly, the business side of mattresses has really gone to your mattress firms, places like that, mattress stores. You go, you lay on a mattress, pick the bed you want, move on. We do bedrooms, we do furnishings, we do furniture, we do all of it. So that right side of that building, we are converting that to a mattress store. So with the graphics and with the big Serta and maybe doing something on the door or the windows, what we're trying to do is make that half of the building look like it is a separate mattress store. So we're trying to get that traffic we have now. And you know how traffic goes. People have been driving by there for 30 years. They're not going to know that there's anything different unless I can make it look different.

Yep. Any questions? You don't? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. time okay i'll entertain a motion open the public hearing what should we have first say all in favor say aye aye anybody in the public would like to come up forward and speak in favor of i'll start there i guess um anybody online galvin you can speak in favor of it i will um

Now, when Bailey, I'm pleased to have Brian come on board and. Taking management position, so he's got great ideas to move the story to the future. You know, we're, we were dinosaurs running it, but with with with what his proposing. That sleep shop. Part of it coming together is making it look so different and we want that whole entrance to look different. And, you know, part of the roof mounted signs was kind of how it looks everywhere as we travel. We came from a mattress store today. It's we're in Valparaiso looking at, I have friends in the business and what they try to create is.

building within a building and um that's why we're here to ask for that variance i think one of the things on your end is you're in the middle of a community it's not like grape road i think that's what we have to be careful with how we're trying to control that a little bit um i appreciate that because i eat driving to south bend to do that stuff so i'm glad you're here we like it when you stay yeah is there an actual entrance on that

But you can see the doors, you know, he just computer generated. But that, you know, our goal is to make that more of a strip mall, like you see all over Plymouth, really. Right. Yeah. It's always been a one standalone business. So, yeah.

Okay. Thank you. Anybody in the audience or on the radio would like to speak against the proposal, please step forward. Okay. I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing.

Second.

All in favor, say aye. Okay, board members, any additional discussion?

Yeah. Jeff, there is a rule that says no roof-mounted signs. There is something on the book that says...

The ordinance expressly prohibits roof-mounted signs.

Okay.

Why?

That's why they're... Somebody made that decision. wasn't really a why and and then you just well there's so many rules and regulations yeah they we have the way that's set up is every so often explain if i'm wrong there's committees put together to bring up how we want to control things and it's put in place at different times we like you heard earlier we try to adjust and change those if we find enough people wanting to change it If there's, you know, 10, 20 different businesses coming in here wanting to do that, it'd be something we'd probably look at. It's the first case I've ever had with roof.

Well, recently, the last time I was in here was with Handy Spot Liquor. That variance was granted on my building, and I think it's attractive because those buildings, they really don't have a place to look at for signs because of the way it's built.

Don't they have one on the bootstream construction on the Oral River 4 building?

That's what he's talking about.

How'd that get approved?

We approved it. I was not here at that time. Yeah. It was a variance, you know, because I owned the building. I don't no longer, but which led us here for this one.

Yeah.

This reminds me a little bit of when we talked about the light and signs downtown. Two Stop. We've got to continue to always do it.

That's what we have. We're already on the books and we have to make a case for why we should overturn it.

Does it affect your community? Does it affect the people around it? You've got a bowling alley across the street? I don't think I...

For what it's worth, the zoning ordinance is an ordinance of general application. And the reason this board exists is to consider whether variances are appropriate based on the decision criteria that is up there.

Right. If we let you guys do this, though, I mean, one thing I'd say about Calvin, all the years I've lived here, I've always seen signs pop up here. there'd be blow up things or maybe they're actual, maybe they're okay. I don't know. But it seems like of any place I drive by, you have a lot of signs and have, and that's the only thing that is that going to continue?

I think, well, the answer is it's going to be up to this young man, but I think aesthetically, you know, we're, we're trying to do it right. I mean, a part of, part of blacktop the neighbors remember the fence that we showed her that picture is gone now and we added we actually added parking places I think at the end of this project it's going to be aesthetically better with the mattresses on signs on them yeah just you know as I look at the building kind of apart yeah personally I think it looks better with a badman roof than

something janky out by but then are we going to continue with that that's what i'd like to do so banners like screwing a banner on the side of the building i will not screw anybody but there's a little absurd at all um the certain one we did is some promotions it was out front and in the back is that legal for a weekend for a sale I'm going to find out how you can do that for a temporary sign.

Yeah. Okay. Like the banners on a temporary basis.

Yeah. The only, the only thing that I would do that would be permanent and just, you know, open discussion is the windows. The windows are five foot by seven. So just like a lot of places do, I would do something very elegant that talks about Serta or mattresses.

That's got criteria too, to it on size and brightness and running 24 hours or not.

It's just,

vinyl graphics on the glass oh because I know the light up signs we've had problems with that I just want as we're talking about I want to make sure what's in your head yeah I'm not disagreeing and I agree that people have driven by there for years and just another ordinary sign there it's not going to catch really the eye it's making it look different to grab for the sake of That's the nature of it. It's business. Is it lit? Is it lit? I'm going to find out.

Is it lit? It is lit.

Is it really that size or is it going to be bigger?

It's 19 inches by 8 foot. So it's not going to stick above the peak. Oh, no.

I was making sure before they go to build it.

Pretty common in the industry, though, too. We've been watching.

I don't disagree with you, but I think most places I go to aren't in your position. Not that I'm against this. I'm just saying most places I go to, but I probably go to bigger cities.

Actually, most places, they have built-ins complete, which the roof doesn't look like that. Yeah, you're right. It's not in Brian's budget yet.

Yeah. All right. And I got to tell you, I wish every business within city limits had lighted signs. Like, I think it's life. I think it looks productive. It looks, when you go into a town or a city and there's lights and it's lit up, it looks like it's a somewhat successful or at least a lively, as opposed to a building that's just sitting there with some dormant makeshift sign or it's dark.

I've driven to many towns that look like a billboard throughout the whole town that turns me off.

I love flying into Vegas.

Yeah, I don't, but I understand. I'm trying to bring that elegant look into the car.

With all seriousness, I think there is a, obviously you don't want it to look gaudy or tacky, but to be able to, a sign that says, like, this is what we are, this is what we do, this is what we have, and it lit up, it's eye-catching.

I think they're adding value across the street at the bowling alley. There's lots. Yeah.

lots yep all right thank you guys any more discussion if not between the board i'll retain a motion for or against or other recommendations i i i'm going to make a motion to uh to differ with staff recommendation and approve uh approve this okay i have a motion ask a question sure how long are those lit are they lit all night long or it's at it's at our discretion they'll be on timers so they could be you can make out your motion if that's a question you might be in a second is that an ordinance though that's an issue like this if that's going to be a big issue of one way or the other then yeah that we can motion

well let me ask dennis is there on these silent lit signs is there something that says they're supposed to be off at night or dim down because we've had that problem we have to dim down so you need to check into that and i think people would be happier if midnight they shut off yeah sure easy you know but i don't i don't know i'm just throwing that out there i don't know if it matters but just yeah so i mean yeah that's got to be part of the motion we haven't got a second yet so i'm trying to

move forward one way or the other so i'd like to be clear okay and then change it to say i i motion that we approve we go against staff recommendation approve this with the the caveat that uh there is a time limit on how long signs can be lit or dimmed down do you want to put that limit in there what what would be appropriate at what time or dennis how would you enforce that

Honestly, I would because I'm not coming in.

How late is the bowling alley open? Midnight?

On Saturdays?

So I would try to go timed off of when they're going to be there. Again, extra light in a parking lot nearby is always a good thing, but it's not bright enough that it's going to blind you when you go by. Unless you want to do advertising after store hours, I don't know.

Well, I mean, the advantage of the light is more after dark, but I would definitely say, as Brian said, it would be cost savings by midnight or 11 or whatever.

Could we just add that it has to be dimmed, but after closing to midnight, that midnight has to be off? Yeah.

Well, we'll work with you on that. That's your motion? Yeah, that's my motion. Got all that? So we have a motion again. Second, you have a motion in a second. Any more discussion? If not, I'll call for roll call.

Yes. Yes. No, no.

Yes. And my only concern is I like the one on the poster. And I can see what you're saying as long as it's not. guy to end up there like that in the heights so it passed the best three out of four we'll make it nice thank you guys thank you and you have to stay to the end of the meeting which is anything else ty tennis any any news on our friends up north from the golf course jeff you want to take that um yeah it looks like that one's going to be going to litigation okay

That's our prerogative, I guess.

That's good. It makes sure it gets it done right. Across from the golf course. Across from the golf course, yeah. The one that's really doing good is David's Courage in the apartment. That's looking good and cleaned up. That's been a long road for us. I'm happy for David Courage and what they got done and everything. Anything else anybody wants to discuss or ask questions on? All right. I'll entertain a motion for adjournment. Motion to adjourn. Second.

Second.

All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, same. Done.