Planning Board - Regular Meeting

who are using these chargers are people who are just coming here just charging. They're not they're pulling off 87. Yeah. Or they're they're working here and plugging they're [clears throat] plugging in from the town. So that South Acres would actually work well for people who want to hop off 87. I mean, I guess they can hop off at the mall, too. But if you're trying to avoid the mall, it's right next to the airport. Oh, yeah. Okay. I think that's You don't have You don't make paper. What keeps people from just sitting there taking too much time? Well, we charge within like an act. No, but what you do, what happens is like Tesla has put in like a busy place. Not that the busyiness is an issue. Yeah.

Yeah. If you you get idle chargers now because you'll go and plug in and then you'll go to Target, you'll go to the mall and then you will sit there for six hours and you only need to charge for an hour or 20 minutes. So then now they're you're taking up space for busy areas. So what it does is it does help keep people moving. Not that that's an issue now, but even if you could easily add that. I'm not I park my truck over in lower the grocery street parking lot and then I'll come in and work for the day and then who wants to go move it if it's an inconvenience. I usually I'm down below 50% to where it takes all day to charge it up to 100%. But level three you would need like 20 minutes or 40 minutes.

Yeah. So that would be all in the software like all what you're talking about would all be dependent on what type of software you get. So like my No, I mean like the software on the charger. On the charger, right? Like the chargers that can support different types of software. Yeah. And like there's different, you know, depending I don't that's a little beyond my knowledge because I don't actually install them. But like whatever you decide to get for the EV charger will have like you want to charge X amount of money or you only want people to be on there for X amount of time, they can do all that stuff. I don't know what's I'm assuming you guys must have some sort of software for these ones. Probably paying for it. No, they're all free.

No, I mean the city's probably paying for the software like cuz when you look up on your phone like this morning I don't have an EV, but you can go on an app and be like, "Oh, this one's being used this charger." Put your attachments in our manage like we don't. Okay. So you're not paying for software that doesn't work. So they'll show up like my truck has a builtin so it doesn't all but it'll tell me where they are. Nobody's

okay traveling down the road on a road trip. It'll tell any smaller shortages that goes to their network to the mother ship somewhere networks the networks whatever. Okay. I think he maybe isn't subscribing to anything that maybe there's a default but we don't it could be like going around locating all chargers.

Well, yeah. And I think it's also like has a EV charger that they don't that's not network either because paying the fee like the the network fee for the year was more money than they were making off of the charger anyway. Okay, that's true. Which I'm assuming would be the same for the city because you own the utility. It's like why if the network charge you wouldn't make enough off of what you're you know it's $7,000 a year. If you're not going to make $7,000 a year on the charger, why? Yeah, I don't know if they're actually that much, but not even a criticism like Yeah, I'm assuming that's why you guys don't right now, but a level three.

And that's again something you should talk to PMLD about to see if it like having a level three charger is going to change their outputs and whatnot. Oh, you said it doesn't really matter. But like whatever you guys need help with, just keep me in the loop. Yeah, a lot of times like we can look over stuff before you submit it to Oh, okay. Sure.

That's exciting. And yeah, you guys will get is it just the three with the grant or did you guys get more? So we have mine and uncles water filtration plant has one. The warf has one and MLDD has at least four but I think they're at least the same. So I think we're either 10 or 12 both and but they'd have to be bought since well Alicia I think submitted for three of them already. So Mike Mike did mine from 2000. The first ones that have So yours were probably already done or they didn't get reimbured at all. Yeah,

I think she reimbured for the 204s. Oh, I don't I don't think we can I don't know if we can go back to the 2023, but but either way, that's still what, like at least five vehicles, six vehicles that we might be able to do. That's a lot of money. Are they all Lightnings? Yes, that's a lot of money. Yeah, because ours We're like 85,000. Yeah. First came out. Huh? City vehicles. Yeah. There's an EV rebate open.

Yeah. Where each we showed up. There's a council meeting and the council wanted us to do it for like I mean we can buy off the state contract. These weren't on state contract because they're they weren't like you can go to two two and a half. I say one kid. No, I think that yours was I think Leicia did submit for your guys because I remember hearing this story. Okay. I remember hearing that there was the the DPW guys just went and bought them off the lot. You put them put them in through SW.

Same thing happened to Lake Placid because they're they're municipal electric as well. So, like a bunch of their guys are also getting the the Lightnings. So, we ended up finding a few down in the lot. Mhm. They're great though. What's the I can't remember his name. Michael, I think so. The DPW guy. Yeah. Yeah. He took us for a ride in one one day. Almost made me throw up. He was like, "You want to see this go to 80?" I was like, "Sure." 60. Yeah. It felt like a roller coaster. Yeah. Oh, sorry. We're over. That's okay. That's okay. You have to tell me to shut up.

First session. Um, so we do have a good size agenda tonight. Seven items. Um, ultimately we have a threeperson board today. Or is Tom's on? Tom is on. Um, hi everybody. Yep, he can hear us.

Okay, good. Okay, so we do have a fourperson board, three in attendance, one on Zoom. Okay. Um, we have enough time we can discuss work sessions and format which we had talked about. I talked with staff a little bit about. If we don't talk about it at the end here, uh, we can do it. my other business at the end of the end of the agenda of the region. So with that said, uh Emily, do you have Yes. Any item? Can we start with item number one, the 100 Bridge Street porch replacement?

Um all of the historic site reviews, I believe, are returning for because they were on the agenda last week or last month and we were waiting on the 239 end. Um, I don't know if there was any further questions regarding that, but those are pretty cut and dry and I will have all the materials up on the screen as well. It's just the uh the two pipe street and the port you guys haven't seen. And then there was the one that the gentleman didn't show up for the pleasant street 12 month home porch steps as well.

The first one just the first the first one I remember seeing. Yep. Enclosed porch. The other ones um we never even looked at. I'm just taking it off. So, how did you handle in the packet? Um, since I was not here last like for the 100 Bridge Street, I see the county referral, but I do not have the rest of the information. Yeah, we didn't we didn't print um copies of all of that, but I do have all the materials to review it when we get to it. Okay. From last time, it's that paper or [clears throat] Yeah, that's

okay. I could have brought my materials from last time because I know it wasn't good. And and again, some of it I I read it sounds pretty straightforward from the county. We can go through that now if you feel that that's a good use of time under bridge. Yeah, why don't we do that? That's the one that I couldn't necessarily see. I didn't go back to the Google Drive to try to search.

So 100 Bridge Street, the applicant is Gina Baker. Um U zone R2. This is on the corner of Bridge Street and Pike Street. You might recognize it from these angles. Um she wants to redo porch. There's some dilapitation. We have a series of pictures here. Um, Shipo was concerned about when the porch was redone to have the character defining features um posts of the porch on the outside instead of behind the enclosure. Otherwise, Shipo said they could move forward with the enclosure of the porch. Um, and the applicant is aware that Shipo's recommendation is to have the posts so that they can be visible. Could you go to the photos? Um, sorry. The ones on the Whats are you talking about? Oh, I see.

In between each window. Okay. Well, in between most of the windows. So they're already on the outside. They just want them to stay that way, right? Okay. They want to ensure that the infill remains subservient to the dominant historical characteristics of porch columns.

Okay. Sorry, but it was really just had to be sent to the county to the county for the referral. That building has a cannonball on it. Yeah. Yeah, that building has a cannonball brick wall. Not on the inside, but had you know they'd be replacing a wall. I would have said you had to keep the cannonball guys. Cool. So item number two uh would be 15 Pleasant Street for Treehouse. Yes. Again, this is a returning application.

It is. Is there anything board members had questions or comments about as a returning application? Oh, yeah. He wasn't here though. He's the one that wasn't here, right? Yeah. So, was it okay? Because he wasn't here. Okay. Well, that is

in this case, we do have the county referral and the shipo review. Any discussion the board wants to have or questions for Sam at home? Well, we had some maybe some question clarifying questions and since he wasn't here just

wait that's the answer to question

right I guess one question and staff at staff level um I know in here that uh shipo indicates they don't really have concern um in their review as long as the rehabilitation of the character fine porch provide that all repairs are made matching existing and historically accurate details including post railings and brackets. Have we had any review with the building department on how they let's say we this board approves the application and the like how the building department wants that meeting.

So I think it was more of a conversation. I I think we may have had an active meeting last week was like the follow up, you know, who's actually following up to make sure that these things are being passed. So, I think that's something that we're going to have to start coordinating with the codes office saying, "Hey, they went through historic site name review, sending them a copy of what the what your review comments were so that when they get a building permit, they're following up with the building permit and having your review comments to make sure that what is being built is what was approved by you guys. So that's something that we're going to have to board each.

In my time on the board, this has always been a a question for the different boards and being fair to the applicant and not being burdensome too burdensome in terms of the the material that's required. Right. So that that is a question I I [clears throat] think sort of at Yeah, for sure. building department level where they yes are with yeah I mean we really don't have the authority to go do that I mean the only place where we would really have that I think is if you had the we require those as part of site plan

um but with these historic site plans they're kind of a little bit different so I think work best if it was just one of those Any other questions on all of them or which just with that the the second 15 Pleasant Street? No.

If not then we can go to number three which is the 12 M board steps. So, one thing to with that one was Shippo recommended limestone replacement of the steps and the applicant is aware of that. We had a conversation um and Shipo recommended providing a financial hardship to not use limestone. Um, and I have not heard back from the applicant uh, one way or the other after that phone conversation. Okay.

Um, was the applicant requested just to provide like a an estimate for Yes. limestone versus Yeah. Yeah. about home screen. So that was also if you notice on his application had noted that he was going to do an enclosure. He's no longer doing the enclosure.

That was what I was going to ask. Yeah. So it was going to be too much uh to hire an engineer. Right now he's he's just concerned about uh weatherproofing the entrance right now because he's got some water issues. But so if he decides to do the enclosure later would come back to get us. Okay. With the appropriate plans. Yes. Yep. Detailed and engineered drawings. Okay. So I guess at this point the one thing that may make this incomplete is if they don't want to go with the recommendations of Chipo with the limestone then we need the economic right

information to finalize the review and and do we also want a letter back from Shipo before we approve or like our approval would be conditional upon Shipo responding. That's more just like a process question. I'm thinking that Shipo has given us the I mean we're the ones to make the decision on whether it's hardship or not. I don't think Shipo would Oh, okay. I I read it as they wanted the documentation, but they just submitted to us

with Shabbo on that and they they replied to me that they would like to see the estimate and then they would close the case after that. So this is still open to them. Yeah. Okay. So that might further the timeline and they they want to see that that Yeah. they requested um when it came through it requested, you know, like supplemental information. Um yeah, it's in the Chris response, I think, isn't it?

Oh, you're right. Okay. So, I guess that's their last sentence. If that is the case, please submit supporting documentation. Okay. Well, then that's I guess a consideration on 12 mome's question on 12 mome

if not we've got application four which is two Pike Street. again another historic replacing three tab shingles with asphalt architectural shingles seems pretty straightforward with other roof and applications we've seen any questions

I just have a a question not really about what they did but The asphalt shingles are already not with the historic character, right? Like that was a previous replacement and now they're just sticking with it. I'm not suggesting that they should do anything different. I'm just I guess I'm just clarifing.

This also could be a question after, but I No, I just mean like the asphalt shingles in G. I guess I don't know what a three tab ashalt shingle is. It's just the amount of like little Okay. Okay. So, yeah, it's like it's like a bay of three. Looks like three shingles, but it's in a sheet that free, but it's one. That's fast of application, but you can't tell the difference. Okay, that answers my question that like already this isn't like Yeah. So, asphalt rules weren't typically about historic buildings back when they built. Yes. Um, so it's already out of the historical character. Okay. And yeah, I No, I'm not suggesting that they change it. I just clarify.

It does not It does not make reference that I immediately see in the original inventory form of what the roof was on this. Okay. So, okay. So, if there's no questions on that, then there it says there's a window replacing the curtain as well, but that's moving too quickly. That's for the Yeah, for the um

two pike two pike. There's there's a lot of there's a you know there's all those things that is there cut sheet for the shingle itself and there windows.

Are you are you getting anywhere that you're using the six pane black window as an example the description? Oh, that's just an example. That's just an example. Oh goodness. I was Okay, thank you for clarifying. Is there a cut sheet for the shingles? So, like with the color being selected, you know, what you know standard? I believe it was the Sierra gray for both this one and 134 and 134. It's the same applicant, same shingles, and I think I have that listed in the materials. there a picture of it like the the cut sheet. I I can't remember. I don't think it's in the fact that

that's always helpful. So, the one thing that Shipo noted is that the shingles should be black or gray in color. Review the colors. Other comments on that? Okay. If not, we got 134 street which again is a three tab asphalt shingle replacement with architectural shingle roof.

You said this is the same person. Yes. Here the chip has similar recommendation color with 130 court for now questions. How do you

uh [clears throat] do we have now success? Yeah. So I have 134. I have 98 Ohio Road. Me, too. Yep. The 66. The agenda says 66

66 sign replacement sign. So the so the packet is it's not in the packet is remove metal fire escape on north side at north end of B building. I said we're missing one in our package that's for the uh is there a wrong one? Well, I don't think What's your face on breaker hall? Uh, Planned Parenthood Planned Parenthood is not inviting. So, and I think again this 98. Oh, jeez. How did that one get in there? The 98 was 98. That's for next month. 98's for next month. 98 is not on the agenda. Yeah.

Okay. So, we got the wrong. Sorry about that. That's okay. Let's uh we run up and print print those [clears throat] out for that. Yeah. Um, cuz we can just do that during the regular meeting while they start doing I can actually I can run you because you take so well I mean I can go as long as you want unless you want to give me minutes. Oh, you give me the minutes. I'll open it up. I'll speak.

Okay. Then the last item on the agenda is a returning uh site plan for Platsburg House prayer. So there's something a little bit different that you should be aware of for how the detailed review is. You'll notice towards the end of the packet there's two addendums that are formatted as checklists.

So we have the original staff report that should be in your packet. Um and then the addendum. So the addendum one is the conditions of approval from the last meeting that the applicant was here that the board had. And then addendum two is when I sent it back out for city departmental reviews comments um from that and the applicant did reach or the yeah the applicants planer did reach out to us this morning with some additional um information that meets some of those boxes that were unchecked previously and has come with um a little bit of an updated site plan as well which will be provided provided during the meeting.

Um you brought a copy or two probably they will be on screen as well.

Okay. We do have a 239m referral this time from the county which I know we didn't have at the last meeting. Does anybody have any further questions for staff? We will have we will have more time to review this obviously when they agend. [clears throat]

Excuse me. Okay, good for now. Tom, you still with us?

I am. Yes. Sorry about that, guys. You're good. Okay, it is six o'clock. So, um we are recording still. Is that I haven't been but I will start that right now. Okay.

Okay. Thank you. Um we will move into our regularly scheduled uh planning board meeting uh for October 27th at 6 pm. And if we can all rise for the pledge of allegiance. Pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice forever.

Uh we are just to point out to applicants uh she one board member tonight. We do have three members in attendance and one member uh online if there are any questions in terms of the overall review. Um can I get a roll call? Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes.

Tom Costro. Wait for him to turn on your microphone. Tom Costro. Yes, Charlie Larry. Yes. Thank you. Uh, so we might as well move right into planning board application number one, which is 25-06 for 100 Bridge Street porch replacement 2025.

So this is a returning application. The applicant appeared last month and we were awaiting a 239 M county referral which we do have now. The applicant um is Gina Baker. She is here standing with us. The proposal is to remove an existing closed porch and replace it on this uh parcels on the corner of Bridge and Pike Street. The parcel is zoned uh R2 residential. We have the the street views here. This is a historic site um which we talked about last time. Um the proposal um came back with simple recommendations of keeping these posts uh visible for historic purposes and we have uh further pictures of the the site here. Uh proposed materials are listed here. And again that that Shabbo referral um and the county did come back and u deemed this a local issue. So no further comment was made. So the recommendation from Shipo setting the infill panels back from the front edge of the post is is that direct verbiage out of the

Yes. Yes. This is all copied and pasted. Okay. Okay. Is is that the end of the presentation? Yes.

Okay. So, I recall us discussing um it wasn't just the prominence of the columns, but you know, we talked about by in doing infill panels and setting them back, you're creating, you know, potentially an area that water could cool if your porch edge extended and having proper flashing, which you're going to work with with your builder. But understanding that could be a concern. But we had talked about the the foundation and the height of the posts and that proportion. And I think there was something about how maybe the contractor was proposing to fix the footings or foundation and the post height would be elongated. I Where did we leave with that?

We decided that you did not like it that way and that we were going to maintain the visual of the length of the post. Okay. I just wanted to make sure we didn't forget the things. Would it be helpful? Would it be helpful to review the minutes? Yeah, I think I would be helpful for mine. I would you could you can pull that up on our drawing. Yeah, just I I couldn't recall where we had left off. I think that'll recap give a nice recap of what we discussed and and

yeah, we had a lot of good conversation. Um I think if we could summarize it for you, Joe, that would be helpful. Sure. And Miss Baker, you have the opportunity to present anything new if you

Nothing new. Okay. Yeah, make a motion. We need to have our notes. So,

real quick discuss those. The board noted a number of conditions last month. I don't we we had discussed a number of points but I don't know that we had set out conditions at the point where we were okay

sorry So this is So I think the summary from Rick there is what we would want to

Nope.

There was discussion about the fact that vinyl wasn't historic but it was pre-existing and there is a precedent for vinyl on most of the other porches. So it's consistent with what the material pilot is. So items one, two, and three along with Shipo's recommendation of the setback of the infill of the columns. Well, that is 30. Is that not? Yeah. Yeah. Setback historic. Oh, okay. Yep. And height of the columns. Okay.

Is that in the motion? Can we show the motion? We well we motioned to table it to table it was was the 239MN referral the only reason that we didn't vote though correct okay this yeah this was a new process and the that the leap frog timing of it had worked back. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Sorry.

Well, without new uh no new information or no changes, I've made myself familiar with the past board review and the minutes um indicated here. Um the note is that it was tabled. So I'm assuming that is no seeker reviews been completed. Um no we didn't. Okay. Actually yes we did. So it's a type. Okay. You classify as a type two action. No further action. Okay. Yep.

So secret's been completed. We do have a summary of the last review along with now the county uh determination as a local issue local issue. So with that said again the conditions items one two and three outlined in the minutes seem to be the standard conditions that we've move forward in any kind of motion. I have a motion.

We need to move to take it off. Take it off the table or do we just take a motion to proceed the rules of order? We've taken it off the table with a motion before do it to be safe. So, do you have a motion to take? I'll take it off the table. Second that roll call. Jim Abdala. Yes. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Cosbro, yes. Carly Liry, yes.

Okay. With that in place, do I have a motion for the application? And again, within your motion, please be clear on the conditions. You can make a motion. Um, so I move to accept the historic site improvement plan for 100 bridge street porch replacement planning board item 25-06 HSR um to and to include the three points summarized in the minutes from previous board discussion as conditions. Second. I'll second roll call. Jim Odala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Cosgro.

Yes. Harley Liry. Yes. Thank you. Guys, thank you. Have a great night.

Item number two on the agenda, uh, planning board application 25-07. Uh this is over 15 Pleasant Street Porch Rehabilitation. Do we have a representative for this? Okay.

So um yes, this is the request to remove an existing porch and replace material with other sol from the existing porch. Um the new material will be in kind and this is at 153. tax map here. Residential historic zoning, street view, porch conditions. This property was built around 1875. Highly decorative Victorian residential style architecture. character characteristic of this style combined second empire body cut worked decorative very impressive. The proposed materials are listed here and does include um original and games will be reused and Chipo had no concerns with this application and staff is recommending a type two action. And

thank you. Um, Mr. Spillman, yes. You have the opportunity to present any addition. I'll just make note that said 1875 Z and other documents say it's 1826. So with the centennial of the home coming up, I'd like to have the course completed by them. Thank you. It's lovely. Thank you. I guess ultimately your application is pretty much to rebuild the porch to its original. Yes, it it'll it'll look the same as it would have made 40 years ago.

Anybody on the board have any questions? Have you uh come across any like do you have historical other historical photos of it? Um just in your own interest in Actually the the previous owner the Levy family left a bunch of books in there and there's some some books from the mid 1800s that uh you know described the the streets of Platburg how they were named um and and some other photos. Yes. That's cool. Yeah, the the photo on the historic document doesn't even show his porch. So, I was curious

in 2000 when we purchased it. It was overgrown and we cut a lot of process and brought them back home. Do you have the other posts that aren't here? Obviously, it's being supported. So, you kind of taken them out, support them. And are they um sufficiently structurally sound to be able to reuse? the way they're, you know, they're kind of assembled out of a bunch of parts, right? These

the the porch deteriorated deteriorated from the floor. The post where they so people I've had to look at it once the once the the buildup is there, the floor, the post will more than support the the [clears throat] roof. What does the um the kind of skirting along the porch area look like or Willis looks like?

I don't see the right there on the side piece there. That's what it looks like. That's just a piece that hasn't been removed yet. Um so that's that's what the post look like. And then the rail and decorative design.

So the down below the railing the gray where the deck is I mean they have the lattice on this side. It was it was lattice on um the outside the step facing where the car and the driveway is. There were steps there as well as the downstairs. So, I was curious what how you're planning to finish that skirt. That would be probably lattice work. Um, it would not look like that. It would be white lattice. Mhm. It'll freshen up the uh appearance.

Okay. You really can't see on the original photo whether that represents any kind of yeah you original condition but

so again this is an application to repair the porch in kind with potential historic photos to help support the renov or the repairs. Um, as I stated in the premeating, I do think this is one of those applications where again there may be a consideration of uh repair in kind. Um it would be good to know uh at the staff level from the building department you know what they're what information they would like to see from our from the board or from an application in the future. Tom has his hand up. Tom, you have a question.

I lost Tom. Lost. Oh, you feel Just scroll your mouse over TC, hit allow to talk. Great. Thanks everybody. Hi. I I had to change devices and uh lost audio so I was trying to do it at a a lull. I'm back now. Okay. Did you have a question, Tom? No, that was it. Okay. I think he just the audio side. Sorry.

He says hand to Okay. So, with that said, uh 15 Pleasant Street, we do have a recommendation from staff um in regards to seeker as a type two action. and before we move the seeker. Uh we do have a public hearing associated with this application. Is that correct? And

yeah, there's okay. Um I think it's been in the other order before, but we can we can handle seeker. It's a type two action or potentially if the board finds that or agrees with staff. Have a motion. I'll make a motion to classify it as a type two. Okay. And no further action would be required. Do I have a second? All seconded. Second by Tom. Roll call. Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Costro. Yes. Carly Liry. Yes.

Okay. Uh now we have a uh open a public hearing for any comment related to the project. Does anybody here from the public want to offer comment? Okay. If not we will close the public hearing and then we have uh the application to consider. Do I have any motions for the application that was presented? Yeah, we didn't have any conditions. No.

No. I will make a motion for um application 257 to approve the application as submitted. Have a second. I'll second. Second by Tom. Roll call. Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Costro. Yes. Harley Liry. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. Paul.

Application number three. There's plane board application 25-09 12 mome porch steps and do we have someone here to represent application Mr. Wilkins?

Yes, this is a request to replace the existing um front entryway steps. Um and the original application did talk about as we discussed in premeating um an enclosed front entryway um but that has been retracted. The parcel is zoned R2 general residential. This historic house was built in 1855. It's located in the point historic district and it's been a residential And the county referral came back on this and um again because the original application had a fork change um the county said that they're encouraged to provide more information into application about that.

No, sorry. You can keep going. Um, and you'll notice that Shipbo also um talks about the the enclosure as well. Um, but also recommends um replacement with limestone steps. So in the in the current application as presented here is for the enclosure and the steps even though we may have different presentation that is the full application right. Okay.

And I'm confused. I thought there wasn't an enclosure. The applicant has retracted that part of the enclosure, the enclosure for this, but the original application still mentions that and that's why it's coming up in the Okay. It was decided after they had submitted everything that if it was going to delay the project that they were pulled off on. Okay. And um was this application heard last month? No. No, it was not. Oh, sorry. Um, okay. With that said, Mr. Wilkins, do you have the opportunity to present any other information?

Sure. I'll just tell you where with this. Um, originally we were talking about a structure to try to protect the entryway, the corner of the house, 72. We had that beointed about 15 years ago to try to salvage that. But in order to put an enclosure, that means a frost wall, which even with a poured cement, doubled the price of repairing the steps. So, we said, "Well, we're not going to worry about a enclosure. I don't care. I just want my steps fixed." So, we've had uh Fullers [snorts] and K&M Construction come in and twice out for cement pores. Then we try to get people in to talk about doing the slat work. After a bunch of phone calls, I finally got a gentleman named Cam Rock two weeks ago, and I gave him all my dimensions and pictures. And as of Friday late afternoon, he was not able to even source the limestone materials anywhere around here to any of his suppliers. So that's where we're at now. We can't get the limestone to fix it. So I couldn't even tell you the cost of it. About 10 grand just for a cement pore to prep the material to prep the area and pour stuffs. questions from the board.

Is there are those two stone slabs just on grade or do they have some sort of foundation or something? Those are you have to go the steps everything is 8 in thick. Mhm.

Um the slab on top is about 4 by8 and then those bottom ones the bottom one's like 9 ft long. Um, the only thing I think might be I mean you can tell by the uh degradation of those things are snapped. Those are those are history. The stuff on the side may be salvageable. I mean I'm not one to make that judgment. I would imagine once somebody got in there that knows what they're doing would tell me whether or not the limestone blocking on the sides of the steps that hold up the slab are salivable. I don't know. Yeah, like those along the side, they don't look to be damaged. The ones closest to us in the in the photograph, those are the actual steps.

Mhm. And then you can see the top slab. And then the blocking underneath it going down towards the house. Again, that's just blocks, limestone blocks. What's like decorative? What's behind them or underneath? I imagine it's all hollow underneath. Okay. It's just a cat, right? That's what it looks like anyways, but I'm not I'm not positive, but I would assume that's how they would build it now. Just like the steps out here,

right? The supports going up and then those those the steps would just go down on the support. So, I'm assuming it's all all underneath them. We were hoping to do one of the closure to try to protect that because even on top any weather that hits that, it draws the water in because it's a limestone slap up top right in front of the door.

It draws the water in. Whether or not it's sealed or not is irrelevant. When it's wet outside all winter long, when it rains, the whole slab moistens and the water is comes gets on the interior of the house. So, it's rotted out. Those are replaced. My joistices and everything there was been replaced. But uh and it's it's dropped that much again since the last time I had that pointed which is again probably 15 20 years ago. How long have you owned the home?

25 years. 25 years.

So Mr. Wilkins, have you had the opportunity to review the letter from Shipo in regards to the Yeah. project that they recommended on life? Yeah. So, at this at this point, you're looking to to remove the request for enclosure. That's a definite change you're requesting in your application here. Or you mean as far as going with the with the cement floor? Well, taking out the enclosure, the front end go after this. Just getting some steps. I'm not even Okay. They just can't find that. You can't roll me twice. Okay.

So, that's that's not even part of the application at this at this moment. No, I don't even want to consider that. So the next the next the next thing is that in the shipo letter they were asking for uh documentation of economic feasibility um and and asking for that supporting document documentation to be the documentation because they can't even find the materials to rebuild it. So I don't know the cost. He couldn't give me any kind of quote.

Okay. I mean I think a step could be documentation from the different stone supplier contract masons whomever saying we cannot source this you know whatever you you do have showing that you put in a good faith effort I think and the effort is they don't even provide it here that's the answer so that is the what is faced in the application at the moment to to deem it bleed to to make a decision here. Send that to Shipo. Well, Shipo is asking for that supporting.

Sorry, I would No, I was just clarifying him that like we want that that that documentation needs to go to Shipo, not directly to us. Correct. It's that is something please submit supporting documents. You want documentation from the gentleman to say that we can't source the material? Well, it's it's really coordination to satisfy this this review from Shipo. Um that can be that can be something you coordinate directly. You can coordinate it with assistance of staff. Um I've seen it I've seen it both ways. Right. Um but that is one of the the open items with the application as it stands today.

Would is Shipo available to be a resource to homeowners if they say look we value the historical integrity of our home. But the way this stone condition exists, it sucks in water and rots our wood and increases deterioration. Would they provide any kind of counseling or resources? So you have the opportunity, you have the opportunity as an applicant uh to consult with Shipo. They may again they've they've actually the way I read this they've determined this is what they recommend limestone but they recognize that it may be an economic hardship so they it's an economic hardship

but they want the doc they want the [laughter] so you they can't give that until we find the materials well but that's so it sounds like they also said please submit documentation which shows the proposed enclosure so it's almost like they might even entertain a historically compatible enclosure of some sort potentially. And maybe the solution isn't just concrete steps that still would absorb moisture into your home, but of less expensive and less intensive material. Maybe it's wood steps with a wood enclosure that's in the end cheaper for you, you know. So, it might be worth reaching out to them to see if they can provide design guidance for you.

And my read on this too, if you guys can hear me. All right. On this,

you [clears throat] know, an 8 foot by 9 ft or a 9 ft x 6t limestone slab, sure, is going to be really hard to come by, but you know, maybe not limestone treads or something, right? So, if you need a letter of economic hardship, see what your contractor, your vendor, your stone supplier can supply to say, look, nobody's making 6' by 9 ft slabs anymore, but they are making 1ft treads, right? That would go over some sort of superructure. So, if you're looking to do something um besides that, that might be your only choice, right? There might not be an exact inind replacement because the way I read Shipo's letter is they're caring more about the type of material than the size of it, the economic mass or any, you know, whatever you want to call it, right? And so if that's what needs to be done, right, uh to satisfy the conditions um for the historic site district, uh is it possible to say I've got quote A that has limestone steps and I have quote B that has a different material that will look like limestone but not be limestone. Um and and that can hopefully satisfy the conditions for the applicant.

That's where we're hoping like maybe we could do a board with stance so it looks like limestone. That's what the the Cam Rock said. He suggested a pour. You can color the cement and then stamp it. Um I said, "All right, what's the quote on that?" He doesn't do that because he just does stone, not cement work. So if you can't find these guys that overlap to one or the other basically that I've gotten in into cement floor, doesn't do stonework. Everybody talks about snowboard doesn't do you're going to start a collaboration amongst them.

So Abby to your point that their comment is in regards to the enclosure and the stonework. Maybe there is opportunity that there's relief on the stonework with a period appropriate enclosure in coordination with Shipo, right? you know, but that requires the coordination with Shipo to get to that final, you know, that final determination from them. So, do [clears throat] we do another application then or we just do like

So, you're currently you're currently already registered within their within their system. You have an application number. Um, now it's, you know, again, in coordination with staff probably that would be the easiest route. If you guys can get us the paperwork, then we can coordinate with send. So pay paperwork being like a statement from the gentleman that does the stonework to say I can't find the materials,

right? or or like Tom recommended if you can get them to maybe do a combination or your your concrete your stamp dye just maybe some other options because so if you can get the estimate that says hey we can't even get it here but these are the other alternatives that we come up with we can f that off like reusing maybe some of the blocking on the side it' be awesome if we could but anything on top and the stairs themselves are gone even you may be able to take some of that kind of views it, you know, y that'd be really cool. So, I know on Do you have a copy of the letter from Shipo? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. In here it tells you that you could go and log in yourself. Um, and then choose consultation, submit new information, and then if you have questions, you can call or email me at the contact. Well, that's to us, but it it sounds like you can choose consultation. I I haven't done it myself, but it sounds like again lean on them. And if you show us that who would that be? Okay. And your name? Emily writing her. I I've sent the emails for the show. So you should have my email, too. Very kind. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, if and when this thing goes, that's our entrance into the house. And you you wouldn't want to put mail in the mailbox right now with the way it is. um if and when that goes if it does go say this winter before we have a chance to do anything um we just build something over it that happens. So that relief is typically coordinated through the building department.

If you have a a structural condition that you know you can't get here first that's that's that's their um thing to coordinate with you. Okay. Okay. Uh, with that said, what I would propose if a motion wants to be made is that we we table this application um in waiting for additional, you know, coordination with applicants, additional coordination with Shipo and completing the information. Try to get some more people to look at it. And

the good thing is it's coming up winter. They're slowing down from the summer work and they're actually taking calls and planning. We're at a whim of who will return phone calls, who will show up to look at it. And when that happens, who knows? 3 weeks later than it was supposed to sometimes. Forget the name, but I don't know. Jim, do you want to do the the seeker and the public hearing or do you want to wait until Um, I think I think I think we'd wait until we have a complete application. Okay, with that said, uh, do I have a motion to table the application?

I'll make a motion to table. Do I need to say all application 259 for 12 Mcome porch steps until we receive a response from Shipo or until the application's more complete? That's fine. Second option. Do I have a second? Seconded. Roll call. Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Musaher? Yes. Tom Costro? Yes. Carly Liry? Yes. Abby, you seconded that, right? Yes. Thank you.

Okay. Application item number four. Plane board application 25-10. This is the two Pike Street roof replacement. Owner is 15 Champlain LLC. We have a representative. Okay. Can you state your name?

Obvious. So, uh, this proposal was to replace existing three tab asphalt shingles with architectural shingles on Two Pike Street built in the 1850s in the Punton Storm District. Um parcel is in residential too. Um our county referral deemed this a local issue. no further comment and Chipo um came back with recommendation that the shingles be black or gray in color but otherwise they're finded replacement. Okay, you have the

that simple. Luckily, it had previously been altered already. So, function and luckily the position building see Okay. Any questions from the board? Yeah, I'd like to see what colonial slate looks like. What?

The colonial slate color and the architectural ash. She looks like I there isn't any material with the the cut sheet color or the Yeah, I mean the dark gray with

it's important to see that stuff make our own determinations. was the last application perhaps colonial sl um I think that came from the narrative of yeah you can see um the application point number three says the colonial slate color will be aesthetically pleasing to the district. That's where that came from. Um but there was no u the applicant did not provide you know she the color of the cheekbones or anything like that. We received that kind of information.

Yeah. Is it the this roof, this roof and the little porch roof? All three of them. The entire Yeah. I was looking. Yeah, slate. It has red in it. So, it does have hints of red and That's the C.

What are the other color options in the standard palette? You tell me it needs to be dark gray with approximations of lighter grays, not that many colors gray or black in it. I ask is that something that's I like that's why you check this stuff, right? You can't just make assumptions. You got to sure do your due diligence. If we have to sit here and do a historic preservation shingle replacement, we want to do it right. Love it. You're filling Rick's seat. Well, [laughter]

I mean, people think this is a waste of time, but if we're going to be here spending our time doing this, we deserve to have all the information to make appropriate decisions. I'll say this applicant is offering to make sure that it's a gray or I guess it's a shipple recommended color and that the shingle within the pallet that they select does not deviate from that. So you've got slay stone gray which is a darker gray ice black which is flat black or state those being probably the three that mostly represented those

I'd be I'd be comfortable giving to exactly the verbiage from Shipo's letter of gray gray or black. Yeah. And that the final the final shingle shall not deviate. Perfect. Leave it to if if that's acceptable to the board. That is very acceptable to me. Maybe a future application, future applicants, we make sure to make sure that they submit that they've submitted that. Okay. Um, did you something?

Sorry. Was that for me? Yeah. Did you say something? Oh, yeah. I was just saying I agree with Jim. We could put the verbiage from Shipo. Mhm. Okay. Um, Abby, excellent point. keeping us true to complete applications. Uh I believe that we do have a recommended type two uh finding for the secret classification from staff. Y

with that recommendation, do I have a motion for seeker? I make a motion to accept speaker classification as type two for planning board project 25-10. I second Barbie good with the motion in the second. Okay. And that would be require no further action essentially. Um roll call. Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yep. Tom Cosbro, yes. Carly Liry, yes.

Thank you. We do have a public hearing associated with the application from the public hearing if there's anybody here to make comments. No comment. We'll close the public hearing. Uh and then we have the application uh presented to replace uh the shingles with color as uh as requested or required uh by the board and their chipboard recommendation of black or gray. Okay.

So do I have a motion? Sorry, [laughter] I thought we did that part. I was already on to the next one. I was like, "Yeah, you're just skipping ahead, Jim." Um, okay. I'll make a motion for to accept this application with Shipo's responses. Um, a recommendation that the shingles be in black or gray for application 25-10 roof replacement. Do I have a second? I'll second. See off mute. Roll call. Jim Abdal.

Yes. Abiger. Yes. Tom Costro. Yes. Harley Liry. Yes. Thank you. I'm sorry you're looking at fives. I bet. So application uh number five, it's plane board application 25-11. This is 130 Court Street roof replacement. Again, 15 Champlain LLC is the owner applicant.

Nice to know again. uh same proposal uh exact same just to clarify LLC on the agenda, but it says 11 Platsburg LLC on uh application. I don't know how critical that is. Just to discrepancy like it looks like it's a typo because the last was 15.

Mhm. Although it could be a different it could be a different LLC. Is it different? It is 11. Oh, okay. So he's got 15 champagne which is your two pipe street and then 11 plat LLC which is your 134 street and that is the Yeah. So you just have different basically different for LLC's for which property he owns. It's the same technically it's the same different LLC. So then it's it's just the agenda. Okay.

Okay. So again on this one we have very similar recommendations from Chipo but same recommendation applicant has noted that it's essentially a very similar request. Um we do have the shift goal recommendation. We do have the county referral as a local issue. We do have staff recommendation as a type two action under seeker. So can I get a motion to move the seeker classification forward?

Had one question one. Um, under the five star roofing quote, it, you know, goes through his materials and it talks about a galvanized steel strip edge. It was on the other one as well, but mentioned it on this one. Where is that? A galvanized drip edge. Is that visible like of the fascia line? Where is that? It's just it's probably about an inch tall that runs basically. It creates a metal edge. So, to warrant off the shingles, it's cased out. So, right. I know what a what a drip edge is. I just meant um is it visible on the fascia? It's about I mean you can see it there in that piece. White I think that

so I would think that this should be white, right? Not galvanized. Both buildings with white trim

replacing match. So it's hard. You don't want to create that white line and stand out if it's off white. Sometimes the gall better colors when it comes to brown. What's your thought? I mean, it makes sense to me that it would any kind of replacement would be white. I would want to Yeah. Let me flip back to the other building just to look at. I think it's all white trim. Is that right? I think that was what is that uh typical like histo.

So I think picking a standard color to most closely match the existing trim color. Okay. That's how we could word that thing about historic preservation is it's all in the details. That's what sets historic buildings apart. So it seems nitpicky but I think it's important integrity of the structures. Good. Okay. Um, any other questions from the board or move forward? Um, so I believe I was looking for a motion for seeker

seeker. Again, staff recommending this as a type two action with no further uh no further action required. I make a motion to classify this as a type two seeker. Classify planning board application 25 11 as a type two seeker with no further action. Second it. Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Costkro. Yes. Harley Liry.

Yes. Uh we do have a public hearing associated with this application. So is there anybody here from the public comment? If not, we'll close the public hearing and move uh to uh have a resolution or or motion for uh application.

I can make that. So, make a motion to accept historic site improvement plan uh 25-11 for 130 court street roof replacement um with the condition with the conditions of following the shipo request for black or gray shingles and to also uh ensure the drip edge uh matches the existing trim Okay. Do I have a second? I will second.

Roll call. Jimala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Cosbro. Yes. Harley Liry. Yes. Thank you. Have a good night. to amend the other one that condition.

Okay. Uh application number six. This was the application during premeating uh that was noted that it was not in their packet. So you take your time if you have if we have further questions. Is there anyone here to online? Yes. Yes, I'm on Zoom. Okay. Thank you. Hi. Sorry. Look at pictures. So applicant is online. Um again this is application 25-1266 off street sign replacement.

Yes. So this application is to remove the existing signage at the front of the building and replace with fresh aluminum individually cut letters to the planned parenthood on Berhoff street. The parcel is in the residential historic district. We have the applicant representatives online with us and the plan to repair design histo district um built in 1880 located in Griff historic district. Here's the street view and then the existing sign has a lot of weathering and deterioration. So, the proposed signage um is going to be those individually cut out letters instead of um that larger board. Um and then here are those materials proposed. And the new sign is a little bit smaller than the existing C can we go back to that picture, please?

This one? Yeah. Is it going to be white? No, it's a brushed aluminum. They just used like a Yeah, they used it so it's easier to catch your eye on the um on their proof that they send you. Um, but it's um it's kind of I want to say like a silver. We have them. It's done in our Watertown location. Um, this is a requirement from PPFA to fall within the guidelines of upholding um, Planned Parenthood. Um, they have gone away with the old signs that we have. Um, so this is what they require to be part of the affili for our affiliate.

Okay. Thank you. Um, it is that's what I was wondering if it was open for dialogue. if you have questions.

Does the um sign company uh part of taking off an old sign and putting on a new one is you're going to have holes in the brick and then you'll have new holes for all the studded standoffs. Is the sign company patching the old holes or what is the plan to help you know guess maintain and preserve the brick once the holes are there? They are filling the old the the previous holes. Yes. What? I'm sorry. I've never been to one of these, so I am nervous. I apologize. No, you're fine. [laughter] I'm hoping I have all the right answers.

No. And it's not like a test. We're just No, I know. But this is I'm just a nervous person as it is. So, it has nothing. It's just life. Um, but yes, I was told that they will make sure that all that the old the old holes from the current sign are taken care of. So like when it rains, nothing will go in them. Um, and they will try to use old holes if they are able to like they did on on the Watertown location. Was the Watertown location also a brick building? Correct. Yes. Oh, okay. So, like is this what the bottom part the care no matter what will look like? Because

that will not have white behind it. I apologize that that's how that looks. Um, no, no, no. Sorry. I was showing Abby a photo. Okay. Um, because it says it's Can you go to the next slide, please? Yes. No, sorry. The the one with your text on it. because it says brushed aluminum with black vinyl. So it'll be like this. So it'll be like that. Exactly. That little one will be the white. Anywhere it's white is brushed aluminum and then the black is is the care no matter what part. Yeah. Okay.

So each of those Planned Parenthood PP all of those will be individual letters mounted to the brick. That's the way I interpret it. It's not Yeah. So, it's kind of a it's a labor intensive process and that's a lot of lot of holes. They're considered floating tires.

Generally, I mean, it's it's something that can be removed. The holes patched and it's not compromising, but it's just a building. It's removable. It's temporary. I guess it is what they got to do. So, in this case, we do have it as a The county has found this as a local issue. Yes. Uh we do have shipo letter uh that they generally do not have concerns with the sign replacement although they do know about uh using fasteners with existing holes if possible as patching where I didn't potential it is in their

fill holes appropriately and fasten into mortar not historic brick again they comment on that within their letter. Okay. Yeah. So, I guess the question for the sign company would be to can they locate the is the spacing of the fasteners kind of a top and bottom of a P. Is it aligned with the mortar joints as opposed to in the center of each brick? Right. So, in the future when this would be removed, you don't have a bunch of holes in the face of your brick, but it's the mortar that often gets patched anyways would be a consideration. Yeah. Kayla, are these already made at some certain size? It's like the Planned Parenthood wants it at a certain size.

No, they're all made in different sizes depending on where they went on the buildings. Um the one that we have in Watertown is very large because it's just a brick building with no windows where it is. Um the smallest one that they have quoted and and done the draw for is Platsburg. Um our Laoville one is a little bit smaller than Watertowns there. It just depends on on where it's going on the buildings. Okay. Thank you. So they make it to the size to go just in order. So I would say you know that is an obvious condition outlined by ship home.

You want to see the um I can say this is we haven't seen a sign application within the historic district. I don't believe. Yeah, we did a little bit. We did one. Which one did we and it had a style? No, I think it was a doctor's office or it used to be a doctor's office and they did it something else and there was like a a ramp porch with it or something. Okay. Yeah, it was on Court Street. I remember being like, "Oh, I didn't know we were in charge of signs."

We have. Yeah. The one thing I will say is that past applications, a lot of them have been like wood carve signs and this is a clear deviation from I mean I definitely don't I don't love it but but on the flip side we also do have shipo review which again past applications we didn't always have that I think the doctor's office was on like a newer addition to the old church so it wasn't brick it was like ephus Okay.

Um, any further questions from the board? Tom, do you have questions? No, I don't have any questions on this one.

Okay. So we do have a recommendation uh from staff for type two seeker clear classification. So do I have a motion for that binding? I'll make a motion to classify application a 2512 as a type two speaker with no further action. Have a second.

Second. Roll call. Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Cosgrove. Yes, Harley Liry. Yes.

Then we do have a public hearing noted or advertised for this. Public hearing for anybody from the public that wishes to make comment. Not hearing any comment from anybody in the audience or online. Close the public hearing. We have an application. Do we have a motion for the application with any noted conditions?

I make a motion. Um, so I make a motion to accept historic sitement plan um 25-12 for the 66 Brinker Hall Street sign replacement. um with the conditions uh outlined by Shipo that um the new sign should be fastened to the using existing holes if possible and if not existing holes filled and um the new sign the standoffs are mounted into mortar

that motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. Roll call. Jim Val, yes. Abby Muser, yes. Tom Costro, yes. Carly Liry, yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a good night. You too.

Okay. Uh, final application of the night, application, agenda item seven. It's application number planning board 25-02. Uh this is a returning applicant for site plenum platsburg house of prayer.

Yes. So we have a variety of things, new information from the last time the applicant was here. This is to construct approximately 3,000 square foot singlestory addition onto the existing 10,000 ft building. the general residential zones county had no comment deemed it a local issue. These um these comments were Um now I'm trying to remember what comments these are from.

Okay. So these are um the comments that are in the amendment two. But first, um, if you take a look at the addendum one, those are copied and paste from the original staff report from the last meeting the applicant was here. Those were the conditions that the board proposed, not not those ones. J, are you following me? Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Um, so you'll see that if it's checked, what we received back from the applicant was satisfied. Anything unchecked um was not satisfied. Um then what happened is I reubmitted um those changes that the applicant submitted to your city departments and got detailed site plan review comments back. Those are in addendum two. All of this information was then sent to the applicant and The applicant has come today with further criteria met from those addendums that we discussed. We do have representatives here today, you have an opportunity for presentations.

Okay. Um, so based on the things we were talking about last time, okay,

what you responded to all those were really not any substantive issues last time. A lot of it was graphics like the size of the mantle and and the gray scale of the color and that sort of thing. This addendum one and two checklist were extremely helpful for lead and I think you to show which things in the resubmission have been best which you've been at that you know you know race scale of color property poverties with the distance survey with the stamp and all that kind of stuff all that is there the addendum number two did press the city departmental observation deposit also not significant for this project the DPW we got this drawing from April which shows all things in the in the in the street there but we had not copy this sewer line, sorry, this sewer line onto our drawing and that's what the DPW comment was about. too. We had not chose that sewer line which is just under the curve at the north end of not that but we had shown that we had this one and the water is over here anyway comes into the building now and the sewer comes out. So we had that show that we got that so that and the curb stop both Reverend Jesse and myself look for a curb stop but I can't find one doesn't appear to be one. So in construction

we can coordinate with it and if they wanted to install or maybe it's under the grass who knows the city. But we can we can actually have public works go out there and see if they can find better. Again, it doesn't affect our project. We are not going to be changing water and sewer connections. The reason the reason why they're asking that is because they want to make sure that you're not building over the top of the water shut off. Fair. So if the water shut off is just outside of the existing building, you guys start digging and then you tear the water shut off. and it's shut in the water.

We closely look at these guys and it's, you know, we're on their side, but we will look to try and find what could find it. As you say, if we find it and as we find it, we'll open it and get it so that it's working and can be used to shut off the water, which is what they're all about. So, it still won't be shut off the electric at this design. The president haven't done detailed electrical designs and calculations. We did five and there's a photo of it. There's an 800 amp threephase entrance in panel village that is huge. So see your electric stand for

municipal light and I did look the electric bills that we got from the church and we do enjoy very reasonable electric days which is nice

but there's no worry about them needing to provide more capacity for this addition. You can see from the electric bill that they're using nowhere near this. In fact, I'm surprised that middle school electric isn't circling back on these old buildings and reducing the entrance sizes because they're required to be providing capacity for the size of the entrances into these buildings. People are not using which is going to get into demand charges like that. So this is much bigger than we would be needing. There will be absolutely no increase in demand or sizing of the electrical entrance from the street into the building as part of this project. It's still going to be twice as big as they need to finish. So that shouldn't be that's the question about the exterior seriousness. Again, they have to specifically design the building. As you know, the appearance of the building right now is is nice and clean. They've painted different kinds of brick, old brick, new brick. It's all a white colored painted brick right now with dark windows. We're continuing that look. One of the things we'd like to do with additions is not make it look too much like additions. So, we carry through the appearance of the buildings. So, it will be a light colored wall panel that is very similar to the color of the white painted brick I have now. But it won't be white painted brick. That's not something you do now. Maybe this might it'll have this panelized which the newer brick parts of their building has

with the dark windows and that kind of vertical pan like the present building has. It's a nice looking building now the way it does now with those colors and material portions. And my last sort of comment was last time we were talking about the fact that there were no doors, no front door on the building. The front door is still on the side. Half the buildings anywhere don't have front doors anymore. We start with cars, park the same is true here. But it did get me thinking that your comments above door. We are creating the connection from inside to outside along the street side of the building. This is where the indoor lobby and foyer and things are. Where in the nice weather there can be doors opening up out to the wall and out to patio which connects the front of the building to the street but also connects the inside to the outside which I had thought about you know you don't lose that ability to think about things to get ideas and you got me thinking about that as we got further into design to make sure we had that indoor connection as it turns out he is on the street side so good weather it will appear to be that side building the parking They still on the side. People have come around and come that is where much of the in and out from the building is now and will be. It's true that they did have another door on the street side right now which does not get a very high percentage of the use of the building.

So they're going to be getting everybody into this central one separate out and then circulating.

Thank you. Questions, comments? I do. Um, sure. It says this is a single story, but then in these there says proposed second edition, twotory edition, and there's drawings for stairs. There's a mezan. Is it that little thing we're seeing or it's like mezzanine seating?

Yes, the the sanctuary will have the eighth floor and then there's mezzanine in there. so to speak. There's just not a second floor plan in public yet. Yeah, it's not a twostory edition. Okay. Well, it it does say that on here, though. Really? Let me see. It says proposed twostory edition. As long as there's not any I don't imagine there's any Yeah, it's not her one. If there are, it should be noted. benefits, you know. Well, exactly. So, it's important to

Yeah, it is. As presented, we put the height of the building all the elevations. There is a limit to the height of because you got a limit on that. We did calculate document on the side of but I'll clarify it was two stories

for our purposes I don't think it matters what building code and regret

we were careful enough height of the building we Can you um elaborate on what what the new landscape areas that are the you know I guess little bio swells or whatnot what that like what a section of that would look like.

Yes, we did the storm water calculation runoff calculations in the do all the times into weather system is always complimenting us. So we even though we're increasing the impervious area on the site, we are decreasing the amount of water that flows into the city storm system because we shape the graphs in these 50 storms which we've had three. I understand the idea of a depression. I just meant what is the is there a curve or is it's just

it's grass. See we like to make them invisible so they they get blown. You don't see them, but they're graded just very suffer. So in the event of these big storms, the water moving on there so the ground left stomps. So looking at the hydra hydraologic analysis um it calculates you know the difference in the cubic yards and feet of water that will be retained. But you don't document the volume that these will hold.

I shouldn't that's 38 cubic yards. It was calculated. I mean it's it's phase there 38 glasses 38. You said the current runoff site increases by 31. Yeah. 31 can be increase. You're saying that's what the runoff of the site is increased by. But increased. Yes. I'm just I'm asking what is the volume of these? Well, this has been it's not demonstrated that these support that is what I'm saying. Well, it does. I don't I mean we could we could draw little sections to all these and do all that.

I just assume that would be part of the showing that here's the one side of the variable and here's what people usually done. It has been I mean it just seems crazy. I mean we're doing the Those calculites have been positioned and countable intervals to degree that volumes are just made up. So glad we haven't done cross-sections through each of those to show a few cubic yards of retention possible. It's it just is it would be be good to have it documented or demonstrated that

you know well that's what does you someone do it you would find that it was correct they see what they that's good but if you need us to prove that it's correct but another way of presenting it it's possible your other option is third party review you have that option as well I would just soon rely the designer of record or professional of record. If you can add the additional detail like is being asked then I think that's a sufficient way to document what you're you're indicating is designed here.

That's the existing plan. Um this picture this thing I mean I think it can be as simple as what is the area but multiplied by the depth see we've see where it's showing

the couple lines that show those problem areas it also includes the areas here that have been made when there used to be asphalt. We've reduced a lot of asphalt area working. Yeah. In your in your new landscaped areas, is that just grass? Yes. They'll all just be grass.

Yes. Grass is the landscaping we do. I love trees. I got eight years old, but I don't like in these near settings as it sounds. I love grass. Yeah. I mean, trees and grass aren't the only options, but to maintain they they're very durable. The snow pawing, which is half the year here, they let you put snow onto the grass. Yeah. And into the ground and into the into the depressed areas. We spent a lot of money about three years ago in Canton housing taking out of their yards out of their lawns so the cows would plow into the lawns instead of the lawns draining into the street.

Yeah, I just having like just a plot of grass in the middle of the parking lot turns out to be just another place for people to park. I feel like if you would just have if you just have a grass like the one in the left uh corner over there like not the far left corner like in closer to the building. It's like who's not going to park there? Drop off some drop off the stuff. Yeah. I'm just saying it's not like the best landscaping option for a parking lot. Is it going to be curved in though? Would it show like the ramps for sidewalks? Because again interfering with snow,

you always like to get the snow into the grass. That's where it melts. That's where it's in. That's where it keeps off the asphalt. We notice a lot that you lose parking in the winter. People are piling snow on the parking lots. We don't play with that. Let them make it so they fall into the grass and keep your parking out. capacity. Um, so regarding the landscape areas though, I just want to clarify in the level of detail that's shown on the site plan. I don't see does none of the lot have any curves? Is the paving just flush with the grass and so everything can kind of run. Okay, thank you for clarifying that. And then on the sidewalks, I don't see the ramped um,

you know, like the the cuts in the ramping for accessibility. um detailed on like depicted anywhere. Oh, they're flush because there's no curves. They are flush. But so the sidewalk is also flush. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Um Okay. Here. Well, that's existing. No, I'm talking about down by your accessible parking. Well, here that's all flush. That's all. It's flush with the It is now. It'll stay on. Do you have the spot elevations for the different surfaces? So, with that said, survey,

you don't you don't have a sidewalk there today, but you're going to pull. Correct. Just as small grass there. We are designing and that's going to be a flush sidewalk. No curve. What keeps vehicles from accidentally driving into your building? Well, it's flush now. What we're doing is changing the rest of the property. So people have walked there probably successfully because that is the level building. This is all downhill. There's new steps here.

You'd have to excavate your site to bring it down to create a step. So this is where the accessibility happens now and in the future because that's level of the building. This all starts to go down hills. So that's why there is no accessible park down here because people would have to wheel up along ramp can't climb stairs. This is where people with accessibility need to be parking. They come into the building the way they do now. Not changing that. We're just adding a little bit of needed parking as we add the cent. This is all basically existing except for that part. What we've done is restripe it and coordinated with the movie parking moving site. We actually got more parking less and was commented on last time over the parking ratio.

So right now the elevations don't match this the building plan. Right. I'm trying to reconcile what's what's current or what what is actually the concept design question. Um the last No, but this is usually a coordinated set. What this is saying? What is this? So the the um north elevation coordinate the doors and the window building. No, this is that's the new

this right here. The windows. That's the new place.

Okay. Thank you for clarifying. I was turned around, right? Very important. Questions, comments. I guess getting through the storm water. You don't have any objection to adding some further detail to divine volume storage.

Okay. or in I think if we have a little more diff definition in the in the plan then we can get past in our planning review this versus going to a third party review. Um,

you have a silk fence detail here. Temporary silk fence. Yeah, that fish the fish out of Okay. I see I see the gnome up and around the corner and comes down the front. There is a disturbing like that. Yep. Range.

So, the one other comment that I didn't 100% see addressed here was the two parcels in terms of our I did address that um after the meeting. I sent I talked with yours and sent that right here. Yep. They all have um a copy in the packets

where I cited the definition of the on-site parking and the definition of the word is used in that definition to demonstrate that we're completely compliant with the language of Arizona. Must go fish I

the most target on the land lot or area and the definition of was attack. That's the first thing I did last time.

Here it is. Right here. Excuse me, Brooks. Can we have you sum up here? I'm just afraid with the low talking that people are going to hear. If anybody is watching, instead. See the the location of parking is provided on the same lot. And on the definition of lot is an area of land. It says a designated parcel tractor area of land developed or built or as a unit established by a flat

and our deed has parcel one and parcel two. The deed is both parcels transferred in the deed. So both so both parcels are in one single deed. Yes. Okay. So that's how you define a plat.

Yeah. So so essentially that law is defined by it's just broken up into partial one partial two. So more than likely or or in this case it was the city actually owned the old road which got conveyed back to the property owners at one point in time. So all they did was just take the deed description as parcel one parcel two merge it together into one lot. So if they were two separate deeds I would have argued otherwise but because they're in the same deed it's one it's one package.

So have you submitted the one deed for this? Um, and interestingly, the the um the D prohibits any building on the second law. Here's the D. There's D 2013 or something. And it talks about parcel one. And then it talks about artful. And you submitted this. Have you submitted this or can this be submitted? Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to submit it to staff or

I believe we received it with the application. This is not usual. This is [clears throat] one of these several process. So, so the biggest thing is that I don't think we had that information. Is it in one bead? So if that's this is kind of the proof to me the definitions of of the your definitions are also consist that piece of land is consistent with the definition for an area of land if an area of land is developed or built upon as a unit. I don't play interpret it the same as you, but since you have a deed with it and you have you have one B

because if you don't agree with your own zoning board, you should have them change the way it's worded. Actually, you you could feel free to go get an interpretation if you'd like. No, I think it's fine. I think we're consistent with that. So ultimately if we can enter this into record officially just make sure it's in the applic.

Well Addy and I had a question. Okay. is this says we're doing a detailed review but then something else says just sketch plan is it can we get clarity on what we're doing for this well so the staff report is this a previous there's not a date is this a previous staff report or a so that staff report was from the previous meeting yes and it's included now because uh for reference because it's been a few months since we've seen this update But the addendums, you know, are But what's the staff recommendation at this time?

The staff the the staff report provides like the sketch planning recommendation, but I it's not clearly then what the staff recommendation is. The staff recommendation is that this this detailed site review is complete and that with the addendum two all staff comments including the departmental reviews would be addressed. So this would be our final review of this application potentially. Yeah,

potentially if you find it acceptable as a complete application um with conditions, we've already labeled at least one condition, then that's that's what the board is here to determine. Staff is recommending that it does satisfy the general amount of detail and then I guess the board has to decide whether the supplemental information meets the additional items like DPW that haven't been checked off. Okay. Right. So, if the DPW and MLDD items aren't checked off, can it still be considered complete?

One consideration that the board could have is that they had that they feel that those are a level of condition that the applicant could achieve in coordination with the department. We respond to those that are done too with the information I gave you. Yes. Yes, we Thank you. Um, but did we when they were here in August, we didn't accept did we vote on anything to accept their sketch plan? No, I think we we reviewed and gave conditions and comments which were codified in this checklist.

Yeah. Uh, I believe that it was the sketch was approved with those conditions. Yeah, it was. Okay. And so then the intention was that this was a full site plan review tonight because the skates from when that Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be great.

Yeah, thank you. Um, okay. I I apologize. I thought that we were still at the sketch step. Sorry, I shouldn't slam my hands anyway. So, I'm looking at the exhibit 8 final resolution 25-2 that also has some of that in there.

This is the full minutes. Okay. Did we do the 239? So that's that's included. They needed a little issue. Oh, thank you. Okay. We had a lot of those tonight. Yeah. The the uh historic site reviews weren't being sent to the county for referral before.

I I was going to say I've never This is It's so now we're going to see a lot more of them because probably half of the city is within route three the fourth page.

Okay. So is Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So following up on the parking um only so more are still the same number of parking spaces provided. Yes, there's been no change. There's been no

change to the design. We provided all the little bits of detail that people are asking for. that clarify your

question. Um yeah, we talk about some of the conditions that may or may not exist. Okay, sure.

Like well for one of them being I I And I'm just talking to Jim and Abby right now that I don't really feel comfortable overriding DPW and MLDD comments based on pictures and photos. I think that we should I don't know. I don't I wouldn't feel comfortable determining that the MLDD power panel is enough based on a photo.

Okay. Okay. So, you have you have what I see as two options. Number one, you insist that the applicant close out the close out the check mark with DPW prior to a decision by the board. Number two, you consider that as a condition that can be satisfied. You know, the board could approve the plan as is, but it's a condition that plans will not be signed by the chair until the applicant is sufficiently coordinated with DPW and staff helps to coordinate that.

Yeah, I can kind of speak on the DBW's portion. So, what I would recommend is that they coordinate with DBW, have them come out so DVW can try to find the water shut off

because if DBW can't find a water shut off. What they can do is they can work with them during construction to install a water shut off means that be noted on the plan. So either it's going to get noted on the plan where the location is because DBW finds it or it's going to get noted on [clears throat] the plan that a new shut off is going to be coordinated at the installation going to be coordinated with DPW as part of the construction. So either way, something's getting noted on the plan so that when that plan set gets signed and DPW gets a copy of it, when they go back and reference that later on, 20 years from now to say, "Hey, where's the water shut off of that?" Because that's exactly what we do. Everything is address based. Don't they have an issue there? You pull the file, the house file for the address. You open it up. You you find the site plan and say, "Okay, there's the location of the water shut off." And then you go and find it. So having everything on site of command is parallel to the work that EBW does especially in emergency situation.

Thank you. So I will say that I think that should be a condition. Yes. Um, and I still think with the MLDD aspect of it, um, especially because we are a municipal utility, I think that they what their comments are about how the utility and electric is going on in our city should be like, is it that hard to do an electric load calculation for your new addition? Not. Well, this is conceptual design. No, but you're here for a detailed Yeah. site plan review. You guys are you know we should get this level of detail planning.

I have like we said last time you were here though. That's just how we're doing it. Google how many watts per square foot this building is going to take. This is three times as much as you need. I got And why can't you do those calculations? That's all they're asking for your electrical load calculation for the new addition. because that's you can't I can't do a proper electrical there's kind of orders of magnitude you're not doing a detailed electrical broad here let me show you exactly this if this if this information is enough then you should be able to share this information with MLDD and they will say it's enough great

then that's one of the conditions that will be placed on is that you need to coordinate this with MLDD and if they think your picture's enough, it's enough. If they don't, then you have to do more. Well, no, that's completely condition and it's natural normal as the design goes forward. The planning step is a very preliminary about a third we're not discussing our order of operations here.

About a third to half of things that go through planning get built. Half to two never even pass. So you don't design the whole building for the planning board. all this money and that doesn't happen. You go step and you're being very helpful with your experience with this process and then you take it a step at a time and and deal with these things as the project gets closer and closer to this. So, so as far as our It was a fair question. I was pleasantly surprised to find an 800 watt. The 800 had three things and it I said, "Oh my gosh, why is the electric department making these guys put a 300?" Because they have to have demand capacity in there that's costing them a lot of money, not them.

Then maybe that's why MLDD wants to know. Yeah. So as far so as far as this review goes, you don't have a problem with that as a condition. Not at all. Okay. So then MLDD will be coordinated with as a condition before final signature plans are signed. We're used to a lot of conditions because this is very typical of the discussions to come up with these questions when they do need to be answered, but you don't want to slow the process down moving forward to get to the point where those questions do actually have to be answered.

I think we're getting there. So MLDD MLDD is a is a condition. DPW is a condition. uh storm water detail which we reviewed the additional detail for volume and elevations additional detail to define that to match with your volume we're designed based on that. Okay. So and that will be that will be supplemented into your plans to satisfy our comments and staff you comfortable reviewing that. Okay. So, storm water details will be the condition. One more condition for me. Yeah,

I think this twotory edition wording on here, if it's not two stories, then I don't think it should say it's two stories. If it is two stories, then then it should say that on the other applications. Okay. So, it is a the existing bill institution still works. The addition is not So, it's a proposed instead of a proposed twostory edition, it'll be a proposed singlestory edition. Proposed 1.5 because that would be a twotory building.

Okay. The the addition is one story. The existing building is two stories. The addition is taller than the existing building and that's why that height is shown on the elevations. So Dan got he was the one who was laughing because it's a one story edition. It's bigger than the two story building. Does the Does the new addition you said it has a mezzanine in it? Has me which doesn't they're not providing the floor time for it yet. Right. So technically speaking this is a proposed onetory addition. Yes. And that's what you're going to amend on your plan. Yes.

Okay. But wouldn't it be 1.5 story? What is the magazine being used for? Um audio visual. They have two sets of stairs. I mean it's occupied, right? That's that's what would determine whether it's going to be a one story or two story. Right. Right. um it's less than onethird of the area that opens into regards to how it's store. So that's let's do this. We'll make it as a condition. You can define it for your review of the code. Have the code officer that determine whether it's as a second story

and then use that then have your your nomenclature consistent across all the materials so that it is coordinated. Exactly. Correct. Thank you. Um um so the other items not uh checked off by the addendum one was the building materials which is something you spoke to but nothing's been provided or just my for the record or as part of a submission presentation we're going to be matching the color of the building not the material we're not going to vert any paint okay so what is the proposed material and color

not a final decision The color is going to be the color that's there matching the existing because you don't want the Where is it documented for as part of this being recorded? So well typically typically what's shown is you have an elevation view and that elevation view shows material types your elevations of your windows if it is a second story what the elevation ground shows the power. I'll say this, this this board has a long history of having complete application that shows and calls out actual material. We've we've actually we've we've actually had that where that's been conditions that have been enforced in the past. Okay.

And it's kind of had that discussion with the church to see what the chair really wants. they like with colors that match the proportion colors to the windows like that what that material is going to be we haven't made a fin decision. So, let me ask you this. Your your goal is to get this so that you can move forward with your parking improvements. Corre correct? Well, whether this year, but but that's the primary goal, right?

So, if if you didn't have a complete application in regards to the building, you know, the future building, um, is that an objection that you'd return with that additional information? Um, no. I guess it would just take some time to figure out what material we'd be using. I mean, that's I mean, so part of the purpose of a planning board and a planning process is it's not about a building in isolation. It's about a building as part of the city. And so the streetscape, the elevation, the materials are all important. So you can't wait to the very end to consider it. It is actually items that should could be considered.

Why is it make sure that it actually are comprehensive? that's what they're doing. So, so I guess my my my goal is to is to talk through this with the with the board to give an option to allow you to to move forward, but yet from now we know it's going to be the same color. We know it's not going to be a brick building against paint and the building to the right is the building to the left is platform. It's it's not a neighborhood, but the thing is we could we could So maybe it's is it a matter of you don't know what it is, but we know we know what it can't be, right? Do you you can actually put conditions on what's interior exactly. So what would you propose like is a whole building? I I prefer

the neighbor there is no I I prefer honestly that you return with again we consider the site improvements that you want to make and try to move that forward as this application anything you can break apart the detail you into two that's up to the applicant but I mean once again to allow you to move forward with this versus deeming your application incomplete because I'm not hearing that we have all the materials for the architecture historic district. Yes, we do that all the time historic district. So this is within a neighborhood.

This is not a district or something. If you stand on standards, you walk around there's no that's the whole point of the planning board.

We are trying to help contribute to the characters of the neighborhood. And I and I we have I am hearing everything you're saying. I think what we're trying to get across is that we have we want more details and we hold our other applicants to these standards as well. We had other new construction where we were going down to like what color the sign was going to be and if it was a brick facade or not. These are so but not I'm saying like even in non-historical districts we have had the standard.

So I'll say this in in our site required information for site plan section 360-37 one of the tab points is E which is all proposed building materials and architectural treatments. Okay. Can't get much more straightforward than that. film on. Yeah. Yeah. So, there should be what's missing is, you know, one of your elevations like a typical elevation being rendered, but color material, you know, communicating.

We haven't talked budget, haven't tal snazzy buildings. We haven't got to that point. Well, and that's that's the thing is there's certain materials that aren't allowed to use in the city for building. So, if you come in and say you're going to put vinyl siding on this, vinyl sighting might not be in allowed material that's used in. So, can we give you a list of three options that you could review? You can read what's required and submit what's required. I not is not one is Ginting metal sighting panel be used or a masonry.

I'll say I'll say this this does go back to the initial comment from Carly in terms of whether this is a sketch plan or a detailed plan. you know trying to come up with some options for the applicant to continue this forward if that means that they come back a range of acceptable options. Well, it typ typically the applicant comes forward with that detail as here's what I'm proposing. We do change construction all the time too. Well, supply chain cost

I'll say that that's that's between you and the building department. Once it goes out of here bill and it goes to the building department under your building per criminal if you chose to change it, you know, they may refer you back here. It's that's requesting approval of an incomplete application at a detailed plan review is a waste of our time. It's just not respectful. So arguing and debating what the basic requests are is not acceptable either. Fair enough. Listen, lots of planning. You guys are much more detailed. for where it is in the normal planning process.

I will say this, it does very clearly say about that if a member here has a comment in regard to that and it can't be answered. So, so is the material being used is that

uh that holding on process as far as we have to return back once again that submitted. So, so that's where I'm I'm trying to talk through with the board and you as the applicant on whether we can somehow split out the building improvements, which we have a a review requirement through underneath the zoning ordinance. Split that out separate from your site improvements, parking, and again, board doesn't have to go along with this. I'm just throwing this out here to the applicant. And then ultimately ultimately potentially we review the site parking improvements with conditions and the condition with the any building improvements or anything that goes in terms before you can go for a building permit. You have to return back here

essentially do a phase phase one for the parking phase two for the building. Correct. And that's up to that, you know, once again, that would be up to, you know, you'd have to date you're amending your application here and the board would have to consider it. Can I ask a a clarifying question because this was I guess two months ago we saw them the the parking, what was the the goal there or you said we want to split off the parking section of this plan. Again, there's improvements like the storm water correct. basically any of the site work that's proposed here. But I guess I'm sorry I didn't word that correctly. They want to do that now. Is that Yeah, the paving they want to get done this fall.

Okay. Is that what you were the spring? Yeah, it's gonna it's going to be in the spring. Sorry. I think you've already said all this. I just needed a reminder. Okay. Yeah, I'm okay with So the if the site work's not getting done until the spring, then what? Why are separating You you you could do that too. Again, you're talking January approval for for everybody they meet all the restrictions here. And yeah, the point is there nothing's been denied. Just nothing's been presented, you know, it's not restrictive. It's just

so architectural. Let's why don't we keep down looking and see if there's any other items and then we can discuss process and and how you'd like to proceed. So, architectural treatment as a general. Um, I noted that in here there is not any detail in regards to the to the improvements associated with handicap accessibility. What do you mean? Signage. Yeah, we haven't. Well, those those are the type of details that we are used to seeing again within.

Yep. H how is how where is that you know like when I look at your sidewalks are all flush it looks like up to the building and then you have the handicap spaces right there. You know where do you plan on putting your signage adjacent? Show that but I mean it's RSADA but do you show it the Yeah. And those are the details that we normally see work through. So, same thing with any kind of any kind of uh visuals [snorts] or anything associated with handicap accessibility with the sidewalks. You don't you can't change either. It's federal law. But again, that how how those that's federal law.

How those details though comply with the overall site plan arrangement, those would all be within the within the plan. Okay. How are the Yeah, I can hear it looking at Yeah. How are the um parking stalls in the bottom right corner? How are they backing out or getting out? I'm wondering if they're That's existed. No, but you're paving it, right? No, no, that's exist. But you're doing some improvements by adding the handicap or the accessibles. Okay, that's existing. I'm just asking in terms of function that's exist which are you talking about? Yeah, she's just asking foot.

Would you cons want to consider adding a backup space so you can back out of there more easily if you're doing site improvements? It would consider those things. Pardon me. It's not part of this project. We're adding a building here. This is part of your project. This is all on your detailed site plan. We're looking at landscape areas. We're looking at striping. I mean, we could ask the re if he wants to put a little pavement tea in there if it was new. They could do that. That was just what I was trying to point out. For parking, you can eliminate the two parking spaces on the end action so that the other two spaces have that 8 foot back.

Yeah. If you're investing in painting and all or striping and all this work, you might want to consider those tons of things. It's not required. Are you are you doing a full paved overlay on this parking lot? Like you're you Yes, you're improving the layout and you're improving. We're just adding asphalt to the the new area. So, we haven't really we haven't made a plan to re top everything. Is that what you're asking?

Yeah. So, I mean, once again, when I look at the the layout of this from existing to new, everything we shown is squaring off and you're adding new sidewalk. You you're you're cleaning it up, but you do not plan as you the church does not plan to overlay this like as this is. We don't have anything right now. I mean, we'd love to actually be top of a park, but that gets done. I we just obviously with the budget and everything else. So I think some of that gets to Aby's comments because we

yes we see these plan but the plans don't 100% clarify all of that. So that's okay that's where the some of the question comes in. Y you know if you have those spots there today and you're going to be doing a full overlay of amen would you improve it so that you have better maneuvering? Yeah. coming out of those spots. Yeah, I think definitely if we were to repay it, I think adding that little backout beneicial. So, but in this case, you don't plan on Yeah. doing to that level of work at the end of this.

Obviously, you'd have to go to a board and obviously the budget and all that stuff.

So, where the new landscape areas are, it looks like that's where there's existing paving. you some of those you'd have to be actually demolishing your existing ashalt to create that. So I think it would be important to include um you know a cross-sectional detail of what your excavation and then like base layers would be to actually ensure this drainage otherwise you just have compacted earth and planting grass on it. But I don't know that they would actually do what you say it's going to do. So I think there should be a level of uh and maybe it's not that level of detail at site detail site plan but uh a standard section of what that drainage basin or bioell looks like and what would be required earth were important. Yeah. I don't know enough about laying asphalt, but you're just going to dig it up.

They cut it and then cut it up. It's going to become grass, but it it can't drain anywhere. You have you have to remove all the subbase out because all your subbase package. So, allow water to Exactly. Otherwise, water is easy. So, you remove the subbase and put hospital. Yeah. So having a detail that shows like that kind of graphs and stuff.

Mhm. So within within your new repositioned entrance, you do you plan on curving that here? Yeah, that would be curved just up the sidewalk because there's curve right there now. Okay. So, so that so that does plan to be curved.

Well, curve. So, it this is where again in a final in a full site plan, this is where it's getting it gets confusing. Like when we're looking at a detailed plan, we're looking at its final design. So if it's curved, okay, it's curved. It's noted to be curved. It tells you what the radius of the curb is. It tells you like what the curb section is for a detail. It's a concrete curve. It's a granite curve. I don't know what kind of curve it is. But the set of plan,

we Yes, we can't. You know, when you say there's an existing curve there today, when I look at your existing plan, it doesn't show curve. It shows face curve along the along the front of the drive, but there's no curve radiuses, at least shown on this plan, that return to the side. I've never done I don't know what I list everything you put on the list. I will tell you I don't know what planning I don't know what planning boards you go to but most planning boards most planning boards most planning boards require a final design set of plans I am not object you ask for ready for construction

look I go down through our checklist within our zoning we're so put on the list we'll give it to you it's not hard it's stuff we do all the time not usually at this step everything But you're asking for a final detailed sketch plan review. Detailed sketch. Okay. Sorry. Detailed plan review. Setbacks. It meets coverage. Zoning variance. Meets tight limits. It's the It meets the stuff in the zoning. It doesn't. So the zoning code you are enforcing the zoning code. In our zoning code is a checklist of those site plan review,

right? Which means all of that has to be shown on your plan which is interpretive. So everything you've done in our list last time we gave it. Yeah. Last time you were here for a sketch plan. It's not interpretive. It's not our job. You could know because you're the one applying. Well, I was we gave you all this information. It's not up. We'll give you some more. It is your responsibility as the design professional here to read this for your client and not waste all of our time. I gave you everything I asked for the last step. Now you're asking for more because it's a different step that you came here to do.

The fir the first applica the first application you had in front of us was for sketch plan approval conceptual approval. Okay. We gave you a number of items things to return. In this case you're here for detailed plan review. Okay. a final plan review with construction documents that provide the level of detail. When you when you leave this room, you go get your building permit if applicable and you can go put a shovel in the ground and build from that set of plans that we've approved. No, we have got 45 G of drones before we go to the building department. Then you shouldn't be here is what we're saying. They're not going to invest in That's what we say.

So So We we see we see a final set of plans and we're approving them. We're approving them to go be built. Okay. That's that's what we're used to that's what we're used to seeing. Fair enough. That's a big g in. But we'll give you more. It's not normal to do all that before you have planning a poof. But that's what the sketch plan step is for is you come in and you show us your concept and we talk through it. agree with you before you invest all the money in I've been in front of many many planning boards for decades and I bet other people in this room have also been in front of planning

over here this is the we give you everything we ask for we'll give it to you but we shouldn't have to make a motion and so okay just has to keep investing in this before they know they have yes trust me I feel very bad that he's having to sit here and witness this

investing this before they know they have Well, I'll say this underneath the section of 360-37, a lot of these items indicated in returns of what is in a site plan review and we've outlined a lot of them, explained a lot of them to you for detail necessary. Um, at the moment I've seen architectural treatment. I've seen the handicap access details, coordination with DPW, coordination with MLDD, storm water detail, added storm water detail, um, you know, confirmation with building code in terms of proposed one-story addition, one and a half story, whatever, whatever it is, but that it's, you know, consistent on your plan. From there, again, I think we could keep going back and forth in the details. I think it's probably a coordination underneath this section of 361-37 of our ordinance to make sure that you have a complete site with the details again details such that you know you want to renovate this parking lot, you want to go remove the asphalt, you want to and then you want to repave it. It's clear in your plan exactly what you're doing and that's what would be would would normally be considered for review and final approval so that you're ready to ready to get it is not a conceptual

okay uh with That said, um, any other questions from applicant? It sounds like spring you have to you have time anyway because you're not going to do your improvements until spring. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously the asphalt shuts down in another couple weeks.

Okay. Okay. Um, okay. If there and if there's questions to the level of detail, we surely can make arrangements for meeting with staff, view plans in advance of coming back to the board, make sure that you know the details we're discussing are there and anything in the list that we haven't brought up. Correct. Correct. Yeah. No further. No further questions. Okay. Do you want to table it with conditions? Do you do that or do you defeat it or you

I I would table it based on the conditions that you give you everything on the list and then the reviewing the detail section of the bill. Okay. A motion to table with the list of a motion to table. Do we have to make the list or can we just make a motion that it's an incomplete application

because I don't want us to be I think that like Abby said there may be other things that we didn't explicitly call out right now that are part of our zoning code that like we've given a lot of suggestions tonight of things that we're noticing that we want to see but I don't I don't know if we should list them all. I would I would list those just so we can focus on those so we know what they are. They're listed in the meeting minutes, but they I don't know if they should be listed in our motion. Okay. So, you you just you

but I don't know. I don't know that if I got it all between the back and forth. So that's yeah I can't I just want to make sure that we have them for when it comes time for review that we have what those were.

So so if you guys want to table it at this point now we know what those restrictions or the those u you call them restrictions um what those recommendations are. We have those. We'll make sure that everything is on in the checklist for zoning and then that will get resubmitted to you guys again then be taken off the table and move forward. Okay. So you feel comfortable we've given the information and do I have a motion to table the application? You see if Tom has anything he wants to

Tom do you have anything you want to add? No, I've been following along, but I don't have anything else to add. Okay. Okay. Do you have a motion to table the application? I can make a motion to table uh detailed site plan uh application for planning board item 25-02 um uh with stipulation or recommendation that they review the zoning code and complete submit a complete application prior to coming back. Okay. No second

before the board. I'll second it. Okay. Roll call. Jim Abdala. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Castro. Yes. Harley Liry. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh We do have one other item for other business. Um, well, a couple items for other business. I think this is going to take more than five minutes. It'll take five minutes.

Sorry, I just really need to go to the bathroom, but I can hold it for a few more minutes. All right. Are we done? Can you stop the recording? Five minutes. that has to go into the minutes if anybody's not aware already. Uh

yeah, I mean I can I can speak to this. So um unfortunately uh Rick has uh left the board. He has resigned. Um he had some family opportunities to be able to coach I believe his grandkids in hockey which kind of takes up the same time as when we would uh dance. No fault for that at all. So, uh, so heavy heart. He's he dedicated a lot of years of service to the city between, uh, building inspector and then serving on the planning board. So, we we definitely thank him for that. Um, and obviously we are looking for new pling board members. If you know anybody, uh, we're trying to get a diverse group from, you know, representing each board. So, if you happen to know somebody who's in a different ward who you think would be a good fit, definitely recommend them. Have them reach up to us. I don't actually know what wards.

Do you know a ward is open right now or is under represented? I do. Yes. But I think I won. Yeah. Was something we had a couple counselors who asked the same question. So prospect but for Yeah. I actually I'm glad that you're I'm glad that you're pausing because I'm like I don't actually know. I think I'm one. I couldn't tell you what any of you were. I know where Jim Jim's the only one where I know where he lives. What's the oval? Oval is two. Don't you vote? I do vote. It's just the oval the I know where to go. Yeah. Yeah. I just look up address where to go.

I know where I You put in your address and it'll tell you all the things that are on your ballot. Who's your council person? We have boards three, four, five, and one represented. So we would need two and six. Okay. Not a bad by all means if we can't get anybody from those ws and we are getting people from other ws that's fine but just like has anyone reached back out to our previous alternates. What's that? Yeah. Andrew. Andrew and Sarah. Sarah not aware of who they are. Andrew Castine and Sarah. She was 15. Um, Stanford. Oh,

yes. Stanford. I'm W three. I'm four. That I won. Yeah. Yeah. Currently, you're one. Ward. Ward two appears to be like South Catherine Street area. as you get to the other side of Roth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so which which word did you say? Word two and two and six. Two and six or W six. W six is like centered. It's

what? Brinkerhoff street. It's like centered city area. Okay. Brinker. Actually, it might be it might be north of north of downtown. Okay. Well, I'm disappointed to have Rick. There's a lot historical knowledge. And I'm sure if you ever have questions, he would absolutely I have his contact info. He's been a great resource over the years and I can I think I have your contact

and I can get it to you if you need. So other business real quick I just wanted to touch on um I reviewed with staff the premeating setup. Um precoid we had a I'll call it less formal premeating review of projects. Um it was actually at that time we used to meet downstairs when engineering used to be downstairs. We'd meet right in the back sort of conference room area. It's open to public but it was more of a sit around the table flip the plans and review them.

Uh COVID came around it transition to this where is a meeting before a meeting. I sort of like the idea of going back to a little more informal. So it was still held before the meeting. It was, but instead of doing it here and having the conversation, we could do it in the old council chambers where there's a table. We can open up a set of drawings. So I've always felt it's kind of weird like why do we kind of do the same thing twice in a row? Yes. It's a meeting before a meeting in the same and like you know one format was going through a PowerPoint then we went through again which I appreciated the heads up here's it could be done like you're saying. Yeah. So essentially kind of what we did

premeating but instead we would be doing it there with a set of drawings that we had already read lined up to show you know why we were asking for this or basically please let's do that sounds more educational and I don't like I honestly hate the premeating being recorded like on YouTube cuz I feel very nervous to ask questions and like Yeah. And I know this you mean live streamed or recorded? Either one. I just like whatever it is. I know this one will be open to the public, but like yeah, I would prefer us be able to have like a more so essentially dialogue and then there would be chairs against the wall and they would be sitting sit back there and listen.

They they can I mean it's just like here they can't make comments. Um so they're just there to listen so that when they get up during the meeting then they could address any comments that were made. Yeah. No, I I agree that that sounds like more of a working session. Like you said, if you have red line, big full set plans, we're all looking at the same thing. I I think that's a great idea. Yeah, I think it's Would it still be 5:30? Yep. Still same. Everything's the same. We'll just hold it in the old council chambers on the big table with a big set of plans so everybody can look at the plans. We're all looking at the same thing. Yeah. Okay. I would like that a lot. Is that that does sound good. Is that still going to be okay? Open meetings law to have it open. Yes. Yep.

Perfect. Anybody is anybody is still by the way for the dark corner. Yeah. Just advertises to the new room. It's it is it is intended for a work session for the board. It's still considered an open, you know, subject to open meetings. You know, applicants, anybody from the public can attend. Uh but it does create a less formal structure even in the sense of an applicant sitting in the in the audience. We've had work sessions where the applicant is hasn't tried to engage staring you in the face. So it kind of makes it a little bit harder where it's you're sitting around a table and we're all looking at each other going over sitting behind us. It's it's a different structure.

And I've even fallen into it where I've asked you guys a question and an applicant responds and I'm like talking to them. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So that was the main item. Was there any other items that I missed that? No. I think one thing we as noted I'm sure you noticed we kind of switched to doing the addendums. So for I can't speak for Emily, but for myself when we looked at the staff report it was it was really hard to determine what items had been. So they they applied for staff. They were coming back with detailed. It was hard to determine what items had been met as part of the sketch plan.

They were kind of a lighter color, but I don't do good with lights and darks. So, Emily generated addendums that basically show, okay, here's a checklist of everything that they've met to make the list easier for me. I'm not sure how you guys feel about it. Um, I I like it as well. I think it was just uh like your first time seeing it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a problem with it either and I do like the checklist format. What we'll do is we'll we can know on there what our recommendation is.

Right. So I think for my own clar like my inter not understanding fully you explained it but you know it takes a couple times to understand. So I see condition of sketch plan approval and then you wouldn't if if you hadn't gotten the comments from DPW already would it have just been the first one the den of one and then you would have had your recommendation on there like maybe somehow creating a little more hierarchy on that sheet of how it's um guiding us. Can you explain more what you mean or show me what you mean?

Um well so I I wanted to clarify. So addendum one. So typically then if we start to see this you come back is addendum one always like is addendum one always the same thing which is you just know okay dendum one is the uh first time back after the first time we saw it and what it's seeing if they met the checklist. Right. So essentially you would every time you meet so say you require them to come back for a third meeting which seems like this is [clears throat] what's going to happen you're going to have an addendum three what you want to make sure of is that they have all the check boxes one two and three

correct okay so addendum two then has isn't from our second meeting because this was issued before so that's true yes which sometimes happens because the going back and forth yeah I so this this addendum two is is has department comments because they happen to get them before our meeting and whatnot, right? So addendum three would be uh ahead of the next time they would come back there would be an addendum three and you would say detailed review approval from today's planning board meeting and all the conditions will be listed. So you take you go back and have these conditions on and the new conditions. Yes. And then Okay. So, and I think

Yep. So, for this this one in particular, we would have the conditions that we read off. Mhm. But then anything So, they're going to basically resubmit a new set of plans. Um, and then we would review those plans and then put the additional comments from our review and then that's it would get sent to you guys. And does like a zoning table get updated each time? You know what I mean? If there

if there's So the zoning table would only get updated if they they're changing amount services, changes to their building that would require those changes to be made.

Can I make a kind of like visual recommendation? is could it um could you either write staff report addendum cuz it's an addendum to the staff report, right? Okay. Which I have to say took me like a few minutes to get when we first saw it. Um not because it's not because of you. It just took me a second and like maybe even have this sane bar here cuz like we have a lot of papers going on up here and like flipping um like I've kind of trained myself to be like oh this little bar through I'm like finding this. This is the guide like what did the staff say? What did they

Well, what we can do if you can just print them all together and staple them together. Put it right in the right next to the right after the staff. Yeah, if you stapled them all together that would also be wonderful. Um, yeah. And sorry, I know that's like a little nitpicky, but like I said, you've got like And sometimes, maybe this will be an issue with the pre meetings being in a separate room, but like going from premeating to this, I'm like trying to get it all together, but you guys, that's you guys did great. That wasn't Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, our second month in this, so we're still with this the whole process. We're trying to make it easier and streamline it because this I mean, meetings like this Yeah. Yeah, I mean to be honest with you that as much of a hassle as it was I've been a lot worse.

Yeah, I mean it's fine. Should we uh end our meeting? Yes, probably. Unless we have official business to discuss if there's people No, the only other thing can we get back to an official application checklist? I don't know that was there. That was my thought too, Jim, during the last conversation was, you know, checklist, yes or no, and then you vote on it, and then that might save some back and forth for the applicant and for us. I think there is one. So we

created for this project. It's not printed out here. Okay. Oh, so that number number one we we used to have like a actual site plan application checklist. It pretty much followed along this that basically said north arrow scale. It had everything. When I've been doing site plan as an architect, I found that really helpful and and it went right down through this section, you know what I mean? And it it clarified to the applicant, but then it clarified to us as well. The the format here has changed. so many times over the that week. Yeah, there has been. One existed from when Alicia took in this application.

Okay. Um and you know, I have not completed one for this application. So, that could be very well part of some of these things that have come up. Um and that's on me. Um but I'm learning. No, you guys, but it sounds like it was maybe an internal document anyways. It wasn't that it was issued. Right. It is an internal docu. Right. I I will say that there was a period of time and again this is I mean having changed department staff that's done this probably five times there was a period of time when some staff actually required the applicant to fill out that I'm almost wondering if maybe that checklist to the application that's their thing saying yes I certify this is included this is

that's what I'm saying is that it was actually part of the application and they check it not a I hate to say it they should be they should be going to the zoning professional [clears throat] due diligence. Exactly. So, yeah, like there's a difference between wanting to get your roof replaced and like building an addition. Right. I think the one last thing I mean we could continue probably going but the one last thing I had was in the meeting tonight we had like meeting minutes that you were able to share and I didn't realize like we discussed that past meeting minutes have been going online like they've been on.

Yeah. So we discussed that at the last meeting. And the reason that we didn't do it vote on this meeting is because the only three members who were available to vote were Abby, Tom, and Rick Rick. With Rick not being here, two members is in the quum. So we couldn't had a vote again this this month. So next month we should be able to vote to approve those meeting minutes. Okay. Okay. So then we we are going to start presenting meeting minutes again, capturing meeting minutes and presenting them to the board at the following meeting. Okay. Like a binder that I bring to every meeting with all copies of meeting minutes as a hard copy.

Doesn't hurt. Yeah. You're making it already, but like how far back are you going to start? Okay. Go from you basically do it for the year and then when the year rolls over you Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean that's what you pulled zoning code. We're like can you pull up the minutes? I mean it would have been helpful to

Yeah. I can reference on the spot. I mean, Jim's been to some of our meetings. We're kind of fast and the town of Alona, but um they have binders that basically they we have binders that we take home that have our zoning information in them, but then they give us binders before every meeting that has all the information for that meeting in them. We don't get into big stuff like this. Generally, we have a meeting once or twice a year, so you're only talking about one application in it. But that's something I I would care a board meeting once a year. Zoning. Well, zoning slashplanning because we don't have a planning board. So, our zoning board acts as our planning board. Yeah, there's not a lot that goes on in Alona. So, okay. Yeah.

Okay. Y any other items, questions? I do. Yes. Um, so for that site plan checklist, do we want the applicant to complete that? I think so. I think it's part of their application like forget plan review application detailed like plan application and it's the shortcut cheat sheet. I mean I think that you I'm not well I don't want to tell you to do your job. I mean like I think you should check that like maybe have your own version that like you check off that you received these things they they pass.

Yeah. But I think that having them fill it out is also going to give all of us more of a leg to stand on too. and then it's then it can't be turned back on you that like they didn't know. I will say there I mean there is existing checklists for site plans online. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think I don't know if they've ever been included in the actual right like packet. So if they don't if they go go there and just print off our application, they may not be going and clicking on that and printing that off. Um, I mean typically I if I was submitting something I would go through and print everything off that was there but

I think it's something to consider as a as a whole application. You know what I mean? like whether it's an application we publish in the future or it it used to be included there was a checklist there was a period of time I get again the engineering department actually you know enforce that the applicants include that as part of their application because then we don't sit here arguing about what they should have submitted what process or have to go back to the ordinance that's not the best use of everyone's time

yeah so I I think Emily am an agreement it's correlated that you know have the applicants included as part of their application they saying it's done and that being said like I don't think we're going to expect it for the next meeting because those people might have already started submitting and things like that a couple days ago I huh yeah I said January because they [clears throat] they've already missed the oh no next one's no so maybe December It might be December's meeting. Yeah. Okay. Great.

Good. Good. Thank you both. Yeah. Thank you all three of you. Can't forget her. Poor Barb. [laughter] Sorry, Barb. And my blood pressure. That guy raises my blood pressure. We're Let's adjourn our meeting. [laughter] To adjourn. I'll make a motion to adjourn. All in favor? I Thank you. Thanks, Tom. See you guys.