Planning Board - Special Meeting

Good evening. Welcome everybody to the Town of Pittsboro Planning Board special meeting for Monday, October 6th, 2025. I will call this meeting to order. Uh we will not be doing public comment for this meeting. It is a special meeting. Um so you are aware if anybody does have questions they would like answered, you can submit those uh to staff and we'll get back to you. Um we do have a quorum. Uh I think we are only missing Miss Al. Uh, and so I think the only thing that we'll be voting on tonight is to approve this agenda. So if I could get a motion to approve the agenda as proposed or modify.

I'll move to approve. Motion by charity. Second. Second by Allen. Uh, all in favor say I.

I. Any opposed? All right. agenda is approved. As proposed, we will move on to our one and only item, the South Village small area plan discussion. Just as a reminder, we are not voting to make any recommendations tonight. This is strictly to to educate ourselves on the matter and make sure that we have a a good uh good understanding of what we're looking at. Miss Teresa, are you ready?

All right. Evening everyone.

I'm here tonight. We're going to go through the um small area plan together and we have additional staff. So, as we go through each chapter, we will try to answer any questions that y'all have. Um, I'm going to hit on some notes when we had the uh first presentation and the staff analysis with that. So, if y'all remember that, we're going to touch on that a little bit and um just go from chapter one to the last chapter. And then at the end, if there's additional questions that you think of, we can go back to whichever chapter we need to. We can open up.

You want us to save our questions for the end or

No, you can ask them throughout each chapter. So, if we scroll down, table of contents, abbreviations. Um, actually, if you go back to the abbreviations, please, just wanted to make a note that that section was added with this last submitt, the fifth submitt. So, staff is reviewing that and there's probably going to be some additional changes made to it. Um, nothing drastic, but just so you know that this was a a newer section that was added with the the last fifth mill. Then you can go to chapter one. Chapter one mainly is speaking to the conceptual nature of this malaria plan which was added with this fifth submitt as well. Um just to clarify that it is a conceptual plan and changes can be made and required by staff in the future uh depending on what kind of issues are brought up in the future like evolving um community needs and public safety concerns. There's also section on the next page starting on the next page speaking to the next steps that we've all been talking about for a couple of months. Again, this is not final. Um staff is reviewing this again since this is newer language from the past couple of months. Um, but we wanted to get this to you in the plan so you can start reviewing it and giving us any feedback, answering any questions that you have.

Yes. But, uh, this section in particular is a newer section. Uh, so back on page one, um, it says here that, uh, no more than six section design plans shall be submitted per section of the South Village. Um that is the last par uh yeah last sentence in the second paragraph. Correct. Okay. So that means that the section design plans can go anywhere from 4 to 24.

It's actually a lot more. Um if there's 16 sections Oh okay. So you're not treating a section as like all of those under 2.1 2.2. Yeah. So there's this the 16 overall sections that you see on that map. Okay. Okay. Well, that's one that uh it was originally discussed to have up to four and then Chad and Park requested to have to have up to six. Okay. All right. So I I guess the only question I have is who makes the final determination of how many how many u section design plans there will be

the way it's written it would be the applicant town park would decide. So um the reasoning that was requested for that was at the beginning of construction for each section the applicant might not have everything the entire section um planned out what they want to do. So they could the idea was that they could submit some of the some smaller sections to begin with. Um but the intent would be at some point between the one and six that we would get enough of an overview of the entire section so that we could start having conversations with Chattam Park on the design and talking about the infrastructure and additional needs which was kind of the point of having this extra step

um where staff could start having conversations before plans are drawn and given. to us. Uh that was something that we learned in the north village. So um as of now it's requested to have up to six per section. In terms of submissions, just the math of it, we could have as many as 16 or as little as three. No, you could have as little as 16 and I think as many as 96 if I'm doing the math correctly. So it' be per it' be per section and there's 16 sections. Yeah, I thought they could submit six of the 16 at one time.

That was part of some of the conversations in the beginning, but this is where it ended with. Okay. As of now. Okay, that makes for the Chattam Park's last request. Okay. And that would be staff review, right? Not not planning board or town review or the the section design plan.

That would start with a conversation with staff. Um if if someone from the board would like to be a part of that, that's fine. That's not how we originally discussed it, but I think in one of the prior meetings, someone asked that. Um so if if that's what the board would prefer, someone from the planning board or the board of commissioners could be a part of the initial conversations, but 3 to six months prior to the section design plan being submitted, like in paper, we would have these conversations. So we can get like a sketch drawing to begin with. Um but we would start talking about what the concerns are for that section before all the time has been spent by the applicant to to put the plans together.

Um so 3 to 6 months we would have those conversations. By the time they submit it, we should all be on the same page of what's being submitted. And at that point, we would take it to the planning board for recommendation and the town board for a uh final approval. And at what point would the public have any input to any of that?

The entire well the submitt is public record. There's not a step like what we're seeing now for the small area plan where the public would have um comments like a public comment period. But you're always welcome the public's always welcome to review plans and give comments,

but they're they're not even going to see it until it's pretty far along in the process. Well, any anytime that we receive anything in writing, even the sketch drawing, that's public record. So, anybody could request to see it. At that point, when we're reviewing these section design plans, we're looking more at the logistics and the community needs um in terms of uh public safety more than anything. So, it's not about um uh I'm assuming like the public might be concerned with um density or the layout or you know what the requirements are for like a uh element for example storm water. That's not the time to require updates to the section design plan. that would be separate conversations on what in the elements do we need to update if that makes sense. So it's it's more of an admin administrative review. Staff can require additional standards at that time, but it's it doesn't go through the full, you know, receiving public comments two weeks like the small area plan does. But again, I mean, everything is public record. The public can be involved. Um they can submit comments when it goes to the planning board. They can submit comments at that time as well.

Okay. Well, now what under this process, what will go to the planning board then? The entire section design plan. The entire section design for reference or for recommendation of approval or denial.

So help me here. I just want to deconstruct the addressing town standards one and two just to make sure I understand. So down here it says that uh you know subdivisions, site plans, public facilities etc. must be designed and constructed to conform to at least uh minimum requirements state local federal regulatory government unit or agency having jurisdiction including the town in effect the time the proposed development is submitted to the town. So how the the proposed development what are we? So um when they submit their at any step section design plan um subdivision plat in the future site plan whatever the applicable standards are at that time

you know if it's 10 years from now whatever we have in the UDO that's in effect at that time that's applicable to that development at whatever stage they're at they have to meet that. So I I guess my only question is proposed development. I mean is that too too broad a term or I guess I'm questioning should should that be defined better as saying section design plan so on. We can define that better. Okay. I agree that development is kind of broad. We can we'd probably just uh refer to what the statutes define it as. Okay,

that's how we do in the UDO as well. So we can um then the next one, any future reunified development ordinance or other land use ordinance applicable throughout the planning jurisdiction of the town? So when when does that come into effect? Let's say that there is a change to the UDO. Would that also then influence the section design plan

only if it's applicable? Like if there's a develop if there's an element that already speaks to whatever that standard is then they would have to fall under the element. But if there's something that's in the UDO that's not addressed in an element um then they would have to meet the UDO. All right, I'll shut up. Make sure everybody understands it.

So you I think you said that the entire section design plan would come to us on the planning board, but most of these points have a little asterk beside them which says staff level administrative decision by the town board of commissioners. That doesn't mention anything about the planning board. That's something that we're going to update. So, what what we did as staff was put this language together initially and um I presented it to the planning board and the town board to try to get some feedback on what you know that what we're doing right now kind of and um we just haven't updated it since then. We're still receiving feedback and talking about it internally. So, we are that's one note we've already made. Okay. So, uh, where it says staff level administrative decision, I think we're going to just take that asterk out and just keep the asterk that says it's discretionary decision. So, it's still going to the board. It's just what what level of I guess approval are we doing if it's administrative or discretionary. So, like when you all review plary plots, that's administrative. when you're reviewing resonings, that's discretionary. So, those are the two types of approvals.

Maybe we'll come back to this later and stuff, but just um or perhaps towards the end, the elemental review process and stuff. So, what's the frequency and the process like and the transparency to the public of um those reviews? Is that with the planning board and CPI or um is that open to anyone else or what what is that process like? We can address that later if you want to.

Um well uh address that now because that's more of a side note, but I you know I it's come up several times. So the way it's written now is that it's required for the applicant to have discussions with the board of commissioners annually. What we're looking at that for the next steps is that um the town staff would meet with the applicant. We would discuss any sort of updates we think is needed, you know, re within reason um to the to the elements. And this is going to be based on all the reviews that we've done. You know, we notice we we notice an issue with that. Um and we have an ongoing list of uh what we're calling workshop topics. So, we talked to the applicant about that. Um, and again, if someone if someone would like to attend that meeting, that's fine as well. Um, but we would have those conversations with the applicant, discuss it, come to a resolution on what hopefully the town and the applicant agree on to update the element and then take that to the town board for discussion and approval to update the element. So last thing I'll say about it, so it's based on like your the town um planning board or the town planning department's reviews and stuff of changes and things that that are going on like is that influenced at all by the public comments or by concerns of citizens about

It can be. Yes. But you know with staff we're looking again going back to like public safety issues. Mhm. Um we can't just require Chattam Park or or anyone really um unless we're going through the original conditional resoning process. At that point, you can you can ask and try to come to an agreement with an applicant. But at this point, we couldn't just require someone, let's say, to um build SCMs to meet the 100redyear Sure. storm event. We just can't do that. That's not that's not a requirement anywhere. Um, we can ask though. I mean, like if it's like the amount of tree coverage or the amount of, you know, and

if it's something that is a concern that we see as staff and it can come from the public, the public can call me anytime, okay? And I meet, you know, with people uh from the community quite often and we do that's that is how we're notified sometimes on issues that we hadn't thought about. So, that is helpful. Um, but yeah, there's a difference in trying to just make something more restrictive just because you would think that's a good idea versus, okay, this is an issue that we need to address. Yes. From a community safety standpoint. Thank you.

Okay, page two. Okay. Oh, no. I was just I was just saying like we were we spent so much time on page one ready for us not sorry was a joke. Sorry. Okay. Got it. Okay. Next time. Sorry. It means you're serious. Okay. Um so yeah, that's chapter one. Again, we're going to be making some updates to this. will bring it back to you and we can go to pa uh chapter two. Oh, one other question.

Yes, sir. Top of page four. Uh traffic impact analysis for the section may be submitted with the section design plan or done with the first preliminary PL submission or submittal. Okay. So I'm just a little concerned about the timing there.

So the way we discussed it is that if they do not submit it with the first section design plan, whenever they go to submit their first preliminary plot, they have to submit it for the entire section at that time. makes.

Okay, thank you. Chapter two, this is when we get into a little more detail on the standards. Um, again, nothing's written in stone, but let's say going to page 16, for example, you can see the proposed development standards. Um there's some things that we've been able to address such as like the driveway lengths and um this the building setbacks from the side of sidewalk or um edge of curb and things like that. This is what Chattam Park is committed to. So the applicant moving forward this is the development standards that they are adhering to. Um in the future again going back to the section design plans and what staff the staff level approval or uh recommendations to the board um if there's an issue that we see that needs to be addressed at that time then um we would say this needs to be updated. either a setback could be increased. Um the driveway length could be increased for example. That was something that was done with the north village. Uh we went from 18 to 20 ft because even though a a standard parking space is 9 by8 you no one's going to park right up against their driveway uh garage door. So we added that 2 feet. So that's an example of something that staff requested be updated. So you know 5 years 10 years from now I'm sure there'll be additional changes that staff's going to request to be updated for that section design plan. But at a minimum this is what you see is what is

going to be done. This has been adjusted from the north village. Correct. Okay. I was just using that as an example of something else that might change in the future that we don't want this to be written in stone forever um because there could be some adjustments needed. I had a quick Oh, no. Go ahead. I had a question an actual question this time. No. Um about the Monure small area plan. What I I'm not familiar with how these two things um interact with each other like this small area plan with that one. So, could you help me understand that a little better? Yeah. So, um, Monare, you know, that's under the county's jurisdiction.

County has a, uh, comprehensive land use plan just like how we do. And within their land use plan, they identify areas that they would like to have these small area plans um, conducted and the Monure area is one of them. So, it's just an area that where they foresee a lot of growth in the future. They want to get ahead of that and plan for it. Um, so it's similar to CH Park, but they don't overlap each other in any way, near each other, perhaps. Correct. Yes. It's just another type of future land use planning tool

that staff, developers, board members, everyone can use to give them direction. It's it's very um it's something that's going to help everybody in the long run have an idea of okay this is this is the plan that has been agreed upon by the the entire jurisdiction the community the town board and so we we feel comfortable in let's say moving forward with development plans based on that so it's not written in stone but it gives people direction on how to move forward thank you

so Teresa the development standards let's take your example you know five 10 15 years down the road that you want to change one of these standards. But at that point, it's just a request of the applicant. There's no obligation. It there is an obligation. So staff, we can require it.

Okay. Now if the board doesn't agree with us then you guys do have the final decision but as we're going through um conversations you know the 3 to six months prior to section design plan uh submitt and then as we're reviewing section design plan at any of at any time staff can say okay we're going to require this to be changed from this to this and this is why. Um but there's always that check and balance you know if it's going to the boards as well. So if it's, you know, staff in the future is asking for something that's silly, you know, that we want you to, you know, only build 30s story apartments or something like that and you're not allowed to do anything else in the section, that's something that the board could say, you know, that's not really relevant to what you should be reviewing. Um, okay. to page. Oh, I did want to show you actually on page 14, this is their proposed land use quantities map. Um, so it shows what the the section is, what the use was that was approved back in 2015 and the entitlements that were given at that time, what the proposed or what the um total number of dwelling units and total maximum number of non-residential uh square feet allowed. So, based on what was approved in 2015, overall for the entire 7,000 acres was 22,000 dwelling units and um uh non-residential square feet uh 20 million, excuse me. And this they're just showing this is how they project breaking that down. And they did the

same thing in the north village. So, in 2015, I think we had 16 different small area plans or a number of different small area plans was initially proposed and stuff. So with one small area plan is there any sort of um guideline or say on what comes first you know like or how if these are grouped all together instead of in separate groups and stuff um can they happen um at the same time or um they can yeah they can kind of pick and choose first I want to do um a golf neighborhood and then I want to do commercial building and then eventually I want to build homes or multif family homes right I mean that's that's up to the applicant how with one large small area. Well, this is Yeah. Well, this is the conceptual, right?

So, when we start getting the section design plans, it won't be conceptual anymore, but they can choose in what order they're going to submit that. Okay. So, so I was looking at this chart and just because I was curious about how much space was going to be used for residential versus research and development, which I assume is where the jobs might be found, but these numbers don't add up. So, I'm I'm a little confused. this the f the first column that 4702 if you add all those numbers that's not what you come up with

really um okay it should it should be very how how off was it because I I got 4840

4840 okay I know it's been updated a couple of times as we've been having conversations Um yeah, based on the math that I put in my staff report, there was a total of um 4 4,843 acres in the South Village. So yeah, not 4702. So, we'll make sure that we'll talk to the applicant about that and see what needs to rest of them, but first we can check them all.

Yeah, I know the um the entire South Village, you know, we say 5,000 acres. It's obviously not exactly 5,000. So, um we'll we'll discuss that with the applicant. I think that's been hard to pin down what the exact number is, but we'll at least make sure that that's updated. Um, in regards to the percentage though of non-residential versus residential, what was originally approved um didn't specify what that could be in the research and development section. So staff uh recommends which is in the chapter 1 that at least 50 or a maximum 50% can be residential. So at least 50% of the re research and development section would have to be non-residential. So So this whole project is is promoted as a place where people can live and work. I I'm not seeing where those jobs are going to be. I mean this this looks like about um 400 and some acres are are um identified as research and development and now we're saying that half of that can be residential. So ju just out of curiosity I looked I I didn't know what that meant. So, I was trying to find something comparable and I looked up Wolf Speed, which is 445 acres, and they expected that space to support 1,800 jobs, which wouldn't be anywhere near enough to support all the jobs for all the residences that we're talking about here. So, so where where are the jobs going to be?

Um I I think that would be more of a question for the applicant. Um yeah so too

speaking of what was what was permitted in 2015 um was that there was not a minimum percentage of what has to be non-residential in those research and development sections. So, uh, w with having discussions, um, with the applicant, it was agreed to allow up to 50% of it to be residential still. Um, so if the, you know, in terms of how many jobs it's going to provide or anything like that, you know, staff wouldn't be able to answer that question. So, um I read this the resu column that's the residential dwelling units uh proposed versus the max. So, in each of those are research development areas. Looks like there's fewer residential dwelling units than what the max is. Does that read that? Okay. Okay. And this is just a snapshot again you know so um it is uh conceptual but what the applicant did agree to was that at least 50% would be non-residential in those sections. So if uh you have questions for the applicant um

I'm not sure how you want to like we'll we'll save those for our next meeting. Okay. So, we'll just write that down as a question or I mean and to the same point of like they get to deter, you know, when the you know, are you going to build jobs first? Are you going to build homes first? Yeah.

It would just be acreage dedicated to commercial. Is that am I understanding that correctly? acreage dedicated to commercial building, not job creation or whatever. So at least 50% of it would at least 50% would need to be dedicated to a commercial some kind of commercial endeavor. 50% of 50% of it. Yeah. Yes. Correct. Yeah. I I wouldn't think the applicant would know, you know, exactly uh percentage of jobs and things like that at this point. Um, but

it's not the applicant's job, I don't believe, to bring in the jobs. Is that a is that the wrong statement? Like they're setting up a development for a building type and the town needs to bring the jobs through incentives and corporations and things like that. Am I am I missing that? Is that the wrong way to think of that? Um wouldn't say it's we do promote economic development in town, you know, and in terms of incentives, I mean, that's kind of an opinion on if that is valuable or not for a jurisdiction to do, but um in terms of what the land use is is what we're discussing. So again, yeah, like it could be in those sections. It's reserved for non-residential. If the market doesn't allow for it, then it it might not happen as planned. It might not happen, you know, for years, depending on if things are pushed back by the applicant. We're just talking about land use

at this point. But within the elements, they're kind of touting this live, work, play, and looks like everyone's just going to be living mostly. It's all on the it's on bulletin boards and it's all in the introduction, right? So, it's But it looks like these people in 2.1 are just kind of living. Yeah.

So yeah, the I think the intent of the small area plan and the section design plans is to give you uh a a snapshot of this is what the land is zoned for designated for. So we don't know exactly what that would be. Whatever is allowed in in 2015 for each section, there's a permitted use table just like we have in the UDO. and it says what all of the uses are allowed in that section. So in 2015, residential was allowed in every single section. So um that's that's what the entitlements were at that time. Based on conversations staff has had with the applicant, they've agreed to state that up to 50% can be residential, whereas what was entitled back in 2015 was 100%.

I think we have to be also realize what we're asking. We, you know, we wanted this flexibility for the town to be able to in the future make different requirements for the development as things change. Um, but now we're also asking for some certainty on where things will be. And it's we've got to realize you can't we can't really have both of those things. We can assess this plan here though in Correct. Absolutely. Because this is what we're approving. So I mean this is yeah what we are approving or noting.

So so the bottom line is there what's in this plan is the opportunity for jobs but not any guarantees. And I I really wouldn't expect that. Okay.

Yeah. We have to look at what was actually approved in 2015, not marketing and things like that. Um, so we are going to um, page 20. Wait, that was excuse me, I'm just going through my staff analysis. Um so the requirements for um the land use categories they all have they have been met. Um the last part Okay. Yeah, you can go to page 25 actually. Um B, approval of alternatives. We are working with the applicant on updating that language. So, this was the original language provided by the applicant in terms of the small area plan being approved more as a um written in stone sort of plan. And it talks about that staff could give uh administrative alternatives to future plans, which is something that's already allowed through the elements. But now that we're talking about the section design plan step, um

that section B is probably no longer even needed. So we are we have talked about removing that. I'm sorry. Which section are you talking about removing? Like boy approval of alternatives to development standards. There's a whole section.

Correct. And then moving on to page 27 because this plan is conceptual and not all of the details have been ironed out yet. There's section J which is for determination of public facility sites.

And again, this is that discretionary decision that we talked about. Um so in terms of like the fire department, transit, schools, um that could that would also include like parks facilities. We will get more information as development occurs in the future. So like for example, there's only one school site proposed as of right now. Realistically, you know, it's probably going to be two to three at least. Um, so because that hasn't been ironed out this time, just wanted that language to be clear that as they submit section design plans, we will be reviewing, you know, when is another school site going to be required and have those conversations early on.

What land will be used for that? Right. What land will not be used for that?

Exactly. Um, and the transit network. So, as of right now, the town doesn't really have one. Um, we we use the county system for that, but it's mostly as needed, uh, income based. So, um, I'm assuming in the future we'll have like a bus system and once we have more detail on that, we would be able to require those details in the future, which we just don't have right now. So, I just wanted to point that out. and going towards the bottom where it starts talking about park dedication. This language is new as well. So, um town staff has been working with the uh consultant group pond and um put language together. So, that's still in discussions. Um that's another section that we will probably be making a few more updates to before it's finalized. I don't foresee it being anything major but wanted to mention that as well that um we wanted to clarify what that those steps are for park dedications just to um go back to section K here revisions to the south south village small area plan note I made as I was reading it is how are decisions made um in this meeting like what's the ultimate like is it just like a consulted conso consulting meeting Um, and then is there any public input included in that? Um, besides, you know, I can a member of the public could attend the meeting, but there wouldn't be is well, I should ask the question. Is there um any kind of voting that would happen or any kind of um um not administrative review, but discretionary review of any changes that come about from the annual annual listing?

We can clarify that. we can add additional language. So, um, back to what I was saying with this being conceptual, but it's also what the applicant is agreeing to

as a minimum. So, in the future, town staff can say we need additional standards for these reasons. Um, we can do that without revising this plan. We just do that with each section design plan. This section is more for uh more relevant for the applicant wanting to make changes. So the town I mean if there is something that the town would like it to be changed, we can have those conversations. Um regardless though, whether it's the applicant that wants to update something or the town, we would have to go back through the entire process all over again like what we're doing right now. And it is a legislative process. if there are changes to the small area plan.

Correct. But that I I foresee that mainly being from the applicant and not the town because we can still require additional because it's conceptual. We can still require additional standards in the future. We don't have to go back and change this every time. And that was part of the reason why um we wanted to another reason we wanted to do section design plans so we don't have to go back and change this every time. Are

are the phrases sense of place or developmental character like a standard phrases or like for an industry like this? I mean when we're using like sense of place and development character right so they can improve or change the plan based upon that like is that continuity of what we're talking about you know for instead of having 16 plans we have one for that reason

um having the comprehensive plan does add value to sense of place and development character because we know from a, you know, 5,000 acre viewpoint of how this development is going to be built. We know what the overall design's going to be and um the interconnectivity of it. We know it's going to pro, you know, they're going to provide schools and things like that. They don't have the detail of public art for, for example, you know, that's a chapter in here and it's a pretty small chapter. We'll get that detail when we go through the section design plans, but that's not really that's more to show us. The intent of that is more to show us what they're planning to do. It's not to say, "Oh, well, we think, you know, this art plan, we don't like it, you know, we think it's ugly or something like that." Like, that's still the private developers discretion, you know, on how they put artwork in their own development. Um, unless it's on public property. So, I mean, yeah, that that's standard terminology, okay, that you that you hear. Um, I mean, that's kind of that goes back to why we have zoning to begin with, you know, is so that you're not just driving through a town and it looks like anywhere USA, you know, like you drive through Pittsburgh and you say, "Okay, this is Pittsburgh." Um, and that's because of sense of place and standards is what

allows that. So Teresa, I mean the I have a couple other notes but uh they've been addressed but you know the annual requirement for the meeting I mean is that locking you into something that's not flexible enough? I mean my my note here was to occur at least in well this would be tied in to the annual updates and look aheads anyways. So we would have these conversations with them. It wouldn't be like a I don't foresee it being like a separate um agenda item. Elemental review meetings and so

we just make sure it's happening. I mean if the applicant doesn't want to make changes then there's really no reason to meet about it either. Well except for just making sure that everyone knows we're at least asking for it. You know I mean I think that that's it. Yes. Important in of itself. you know, if we're saying, "Hey, we're going to meet with them annually or quarterly or bianually and we're going to ask for these things and every single time they say no." Like that's I think that's in and of itself important. I think m maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you still meet with them on a regular basis to develop the section design plans? Right. Well, and that's that's this is a requirement, but again, this is a requirement that's based on the small area plan being written in stone. M

you know since it's conceptual now it's not it's not like we are needing to make annual updates. I mean there could be annual updates made but um since we're doing the section design plans if that's what the board agrees to do then um we would just discuss whatever updates need to be made through that process. We go to chapter three. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Page 28. Um, something I I wanted to just understand a little bit better about the park stuff. It uh further design and construction. So, this is right above the paragraph the right above the section park design. Further design and construction costs needed to complete the remainder of the park master plan will be provided by the town. And I know in the back of the I think in one of the appendices or towards the end there was like um mon money monies allocated or a minimum 500,000 minimum 3 million all that sort of thing. So if if I I want to make sure I understand it. So like if so right now any kind of park that comes together for Chadam Park would if it's over a certain acreage then the parks director helps in the planning for that park. Did I did I have that right? Mhm.

Cool. Saying we plans in parks but pays for correct. Correct. And our parks director is here too. If you'd like to speak with her, but um to answer your question, yes. And then but they but they have the minimum amounts that they would provide. Is there any flexibility in that? Because you know as costs increase in everything um is that just the minimum that I think that was decided already in the original approvals. Oh yeah. So that's their that is their required. They can go over but they can't go under. Okay.

Does that control the cost of inflation? Stuff like that or no it's not. Okay. So again that's what was approved 2015. That was through the conditional reasonzoning. So, like as Corey said, it's it's kind there's things that you would like, I'm sure, to say, "Okay, well, maybe we should have thought of that in 2015." But, you know, there's a lot of things that it's kind of like at this point, um, what we're reviewing now is not asking them to, you know, increase the amount they're going to pay because that was already agreed upon. I wasn't suggesting that thing. No, I'm just

a question of like how how what is what are we un what is happening in terms of um cost to the town of Pittsburgh to to um to outfit a park. Yes. That is in the development. I mean, you know, I understand, but I'm just curious about

Yeah. The response was more to a lot of the comments that have been made in the past couple of months when I've presented this to the planning board and the town board. um of you know what what can we like require them to do for them to get approved you know almost like leverage and so it's hard for it's hard to explain but um and the town attorney's here he can explain it better than I'm I can I'm sure um but you know there's entitlements that were given back in 2015 and that's not exactly what we're looking at today we can't just say okay we'll approve you If you change that,

well, we can always ask for like so we talk about financial impact analysis and it's absent of any sort of expenses. That would be a great example of an expense to the town that could perhaps be occurred and stuff like um but we didn't have any expenses on our financial impact analysis that would you know I'm sure there's many many more and stuff, right? You could always ask, but

for it to be implied that it's going to impact if an approval is going to be made or not, I guess is my the point that I was making. Well, I mean, but the approval a complete application is um requires a financial impact analysis and stuff and to have an financial analysis that doesn't include any expenses and stuff is like well then is it a complete application if that's what we're going to accept to be able to review and stuff like and I've and I've talked um internally with staff about that and additional information is going to be requested awesome for that. So, um, we'll have more details on that as well.

Oh, and just one I mean I was real pleased that the U provision in here the town staff will lead the public engagement process and at least three touch points with the community. So, that's basically what you're doing now, going out and having an in-person meeting, doing surveys and those. Okay, great. as we get larger um needs can it will change and so but we want to make sure is especially for these larger parks that we're not just saying well this is going to be the design of the park we wanted to make sure is this what the community needs so that's why we want to make sure we have there to make sure that

there's a complete difference in the private development design process versus public And thank you.

All right, moving on to chapter three. Um, an update regarding transportation is the um consultant that we've been using, RK and K. they have received uh the second submitt by the applicant and when we spoke to them a few weeks ago or a couple weeks ago they said that they expected to have comments in um I think like 9th or 10th so it should be soon and at that point it will be sent back to the applicant and any adjustments can be made at that point. Um, so that's kind of on the uh on hold as well. So as soon as we get an update from RK or a recommendation for approval or not, we will let you know. I think on that question I mean the one of the main concerns is the idea of taking planned streets through existing private property would be need to be known if that was planned ahead of time.

Was that I'm sorry if there is a plan in the traffic plan to through imminent domain or whatever means the DOT does it to take streets through private property or subdivisions that would be a good thing to know ahead of the vote. So yes, the um the land that is shown where public where streets are going to go in the small area plan will not have that issue. Of course, there's a couple places where dotted lines go outside the small area plan. That's the one I'm talking about. But

so that's more of an concern with our comprehensive transportation plan, which there's a map of that on page 33. Next page. So, um, this is our town's comprehensive transportation plan. This has nothing to do with the small area plan. They did include it in it as reference, though. They are required to be consistent with this plan. Any any proposed development that comes to town is required to be consistent. And if it's not consistent, then staff will not approve it or recommend for the town board to approve it or planning board to, you know, give a recommendation on it. Um the difference with Chattam Park is they had a model done that shows that some of those corridors, those future corridors are not needed. So they proposed actually removing a couple of them like in the Hanks Chapel area and readjusting the lines. So there was a model that was created for that and that's what RKNK is reviewing.

Okay, great. If RK is in agreeance with what Chattam Park is proposing, they will make a recommendation for us to approve what the small area plan shows. And what that means is we will actually update the comprehensive transportation plan to match what the small area plan shows. But anything outside of Chattam Park, that is a town's um concern for future development. And and then keep in mind that these corridors are thousand foot wide line, you know, lines on a map. So they can always move around. Um and as we get more information moving forward, some of them might be completely different locations. This is, you know, just kind of going back to what we were discussing like with the Monure Small area plan. It's just a planning tool that we all can use to get an idea of how development should incur occur. but it can always change in the future with more information. And then on page 36 regarding the transportation analysis. Um we are uh going to update this language to also you know state what we discussed before about the tra traffic impact analysis for each section um is required either with the first section design plan or the first plate flat. So we'll make that uh clear clear in that section as well.

Okay. Um, some of these the comments in the staff analysis have been addressed which when we bring this back to you it'll all be updated um to include you know what items have been uh finalized or you know there's still issues being worked out. So uh the rest of this chapter we talk about cross-sections. We want it that to be clear that they are conceptual. So if you go to page let's 42 this is another example of what the applicant is agreeing to. So at a bare minimum you will see every street you know with sidewalks multi-use paths as shown. Again, this can change in the future. Staff can say that this uh street typical needs to be modified for XYZ reason in the future.

It's all consistent with the PDD, right? I'm sorry. It's all PDD consistent stuff, not new. Nothing new there. No, that actually would be based on like town specifications.

Is it different than the north? The Chattam Park does not have a element or anything like that for section street typicals. So that would fall under what's in the small area plan which is what they're agreeing to. But then also they'd have to meet any town specs in the future or you know like what we were saying with staff can bring up issues in the future that um were not thought about at this time and can require changes for that. Terres, cyclists will use multi-use trails. Is that

I think that's probably more a question for Benji. He's with our engineering department. Okay. Okay. So, will Okay. So, will bikes be prohibited on the street? They're designed to accommodate both cyclists and people walk. Okay, that's all right. And those are separate than the 20 miles of greenway. Road. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Is there like a souped up sidewalk, right? Essentially. Um this the chapter also speaks to transit stops which we we talked about um will be updated in the future. And um back on in the first chapter, it clarifies that transit stop locations will be finalized prior to section design plan approvals. Any questions about transportation? Nope. Okay.

Actually, there was a question brought up at a previous meeting about um the timing of the development of the roads versus the development of the and maybe this is a question for the applicant. Will they be building the roads significantly before building the neighborhoods or there's no requirements that a road has to be built at a certain timeline before development,

but clearly no development would ever be approved unless there was a road there and you know or being built. If we were to approve a subdivision, it would also show what the proposed rideway is. And so during the CD process, we would approve this engineer drawings. They would have to um develop at least 75% of all the improvements before we can approve their final plat. So that's, you know, that's already a requirement that would be addressed. But in terms of like when a certain major road is going, you know, what the applicant is planning, when they're planning on developing that road, there's no standards or anything like that that would require it to be different.

Something they brought up as a reason why they wanted this large small area plan. Oh, okay. So, we can add that, I guess, to a conversation question with the applicant next time. Yeah. I don't know. When we were asking why this large small area plan, this was one of the reasons they gave the Okay, I know that it was in regards to planning out the roads for sure. I was about planning them out the design. You can still plan them out in separate sections though. That's what I didn't understand in terms of Well, the major corridors are shown in this plan and that was a reason for approving it as a large comprehensive plan. Yeah. so that we can see what the major roads are going to look like throughout the entire 5,000 acres.

Okay. So, I maybe that's what you heard. That's my guess is probably what the intent was. Okay. Not timeline for actually building it, but that we're we're giving an approval for the overall layout. And that that does benefit the developer in planning for their future um corridors because like I said, it is different from the CTP. So, we wouldn't be able to actually up uh approve anything unless we updated the CTP. We can't update the CTP until this gets approved.

Okay. Um, next chapter is utilities and Tri River did present to y'all a couple of months ago. Um the overall feedback was that um there there was no major concerns from Tri River moving forward that the way it's planned out they uh they agree with. So, um, if there's any specific questions about utilities, we didn't ask them to come tonight, but anything in addition to that, we can always, uh, write it down and bring it back to you. I had some questions about the water. Um, about So, sorry. Um, yeah. So, I'm looking on page 50. Um, and it it it talks about reserved capacities described above. I just want to make sure I'm clear on what is proposed versus what has been approved in terms of and I don't know if this is a you question or somebody else question because it seems like from what I can tell that five MGD so I guess it's a million gallons a day is that means okay cool good five I've have already that's already happening but that Chattam Park would need I think it was what 4.7 if I have it correct they would need 4.7 or 4.9 something like that

by 2050. Yeah. I just I just want to make sure I I'm clear on how I'm I'm clear on how the water distribution is going to happen if it's if it's not been approved yet in terms of this expansion of availability of ser of of services. that the applicant can speak more to that. Um, from what I understood with the presentation is that there there would be future capacities for that provided by Tri River and that they didn't see a concern with that. But

I'm I'm more I'm more curious about um I understand that there could potentially be more capacity, but I I think and may and correct me if I'm wrong, future development outside of Chattam Park, if if nothing else gets approved, they would have most of the capacity most of the future capacity available. So, okay. So with the future um city of Sanford, it shows you know what those allocations would be and then it also says Western Intake Partners and I know there has been conversations with that.

Um so that that's just future planning. That's not that hasn't been approved or anything like that yet. Right. And I and I see like in the paragraph above that it said at present Tri River Water has elected not to participate in phase one of the Western Intake pro uh partners project anticipated to come online in 2020 2031 just so I don't understand why it would be I mean I understand it's like in theory this is something that's hap that could happen sometime in the future but if it's not if if Triber doesn't decide to participate what kind of capacity would there be for any other development outside of Chhattam Park in this in in the town of Pittsburgh.

So, up until we made the merger with Tri River, there was zero capacity. No development could happen. Yeah. Um so, I mean really it's it just depends on what gets approved in the future with Tri River and then what other kinds of um partnerships the town can make that have not been figured out yet. You know, we're planning in in advance. uh you know looking at future needs 10 20 plus years out um which I'm you know Tri River would probably be the best to explain you know what the future planning looks like

but just in in general like in terms of development uh we don't give any sort of approvals for um any sort of development permit so that includes preliminary plat site plans zoning permits unless you actually have allocation. So, we'd have to have something from Tri River or another entity saying they will be provided uh sewer allocation, you know, for their needed capacity and with Chattam Park they had their own water recovery center and they would provide their own letters saying that they have that. So just in g I mean in the future if that additional approval is not given then additional development would not happen anywhere in town

unless they had a separate agreement with Twater River. That's what I mean. Yes. Why? I guess my question is why is it in here if it doesn't affect um Chattam Park or does No, this does affect Chattam Park. I was just saying in general that's how development approvals work. Like this is just for planning purposes

to show you what they're looking at doing, how they're looking at providing utilities for the South Village. Doesn't mean that it's all ironed out yet. Lisa, I'm looking at the map on page 51 and some of these proposed force mains are going through private property and I'm wondering what the impact of that is on those properties specifically on off of Moner Pittsboro Road

proposed south village force mains. I'm not sure if those are areas that we already have easements for or do you know the red those red lines that go outside of Chattam Parks PDD are those just future easements that would have to be obtained and that's we did the a similar thing for the Stanford line say that that is a very standard thing just in development obviously you've got to get connectivity for sewer and water. So offsite easements, it's going through someone's proc, right? You know. Yeah. And then negotiations with that individual would have to occur.

Okay. So to get those easements. Yes. Yeah. This is like an overall snapshot of that as we start to work on the section design plan level. We'll have all of this figured out. That's where that detail. Okay. They'll have it all. Sorry to interject. That's a good question. No, that's a that's a good question. You have existing easements in place. It's one thing. Otherwise, it requires a lot of stuff and a lot a lot of times everything else, right?

A lot of times they will obviously you would you would try to use an existing easement if it's there. Um, some of it might just be having to widen an easement a little bit and some of it might need to be getting new easements, but that would be like she said once you get to the preliminary preliminary pass or would it be at the that section design plan. Okay. I mean, if if the applicant doesn't have water and sewer or easements for that, the likelihood of them going through the process of the section design plan approval is many ways. I would explain that.

Let's talk about a different type of pipe and that's natural gas. Is natural gas going to service this area here? That would be that's not a requirement by the town. So that would be a question by for the applicant, but the North Village is that's what I was wondering. Yeah, I would assume so. Um, we can add that to the list of questions for the applicant to confirm. But

and then the second part is what's the uh are there going to be any transmission lines running through the area? They're just going to be distribution lines. um that when we get the infrastructure like with the utility lines I think to at that detail that would probably be more plenary plat but if you're asking more from like an overall planning perspective I think the applicant can speak to that okay so we can add that to the list

and so just so just so I'm clear about the water situation. The the besides the applicant, does anyone else uh did anyone else provide um subject matter expertise any of the numbers or any any anything in this water section? this um in terms of estimates of usage and all that sort of stuff. Uh Tri River hired a consultant as well to review their entire small airplane and um we have not received the final uh I guess recommendation from them. So we are waiting on that. Um but

they they hired a consultant a third party consultant. Do you anticipate that the report to be available before we or any soon? Yes. Well, as soon as we get it. As soon as you get it. Yeah. It'll be public record as soon as I get it. So, we can share that with you.

Cool. I and the reason why I ask is because um if it feels and and it might be just my lack of information and knowledge about it, but I just imagine that if you have to um increase capacity in terms of sewer and wastewater and water in general, but that the amounts that are hap that But but and then there's like this whole part about reimbursement reimbursement, right? Because the developer takes it on, but then it has to go back to Tri River for reimbursements and all that sort of thing. Like does that impact everybody else in Pittsboro in terms of a rate coverage increases and things like that? Because we're, you know, for there not to be additional capacity for the rest of the town, but just mostly all this additional capacity that rateayers may have to supplement through our, you know, rate increases.

No. No. So development has to pay for itself. So the lines that are being built by the developer, they have to pay for that. Um sometimes either a jurisdiction or like in this case Tri River, they might offset or they might add to uh the funds. Let's say if they want to increase the line size or something like that. Um but whatever impact the development is bringing, they have to pay for that with their uh construction for future capacity needs. There's also something that's uh like an impact fee that's allowed in North Carolina. It's a system development fee. And so for every new proposed either home or business, you have to pay that upfront that helps pay for future needs,

okay, for the system. So they would they would be paying that as well. So So maybe I'm confused then about on page 52 the reimbursement strategies. So this is right above where it says wastewater. Um it says all improvements are required to serve the south village are proposed to follow a traditional model of developer funded infrastructure dedicated to the tribe river water and reimbursement strategies utilizing forgiveness or credits of impact and connection fees for new users constructions with construction within Chhattam Park and affiliated areas. So I can ask about that. um not clear on what that

I'm not sure if that's just language that speaking of options but um if Tri River if there's an if there's some sort of agreement between Tri River and Chattam Park that's separate than what the standard you know development that needs to pay um I'll double check on that but I hadn't heard thing where you know the developer would definitely be paying you know their fair share of what needs to be you know the funds needed for this but I'll I'll get that sentence clarified.

Thank you. But Teresa, the system development fee is supposed to neutralize cost with the new homeowners assuming all the necessary uh costs associated with with hookups. The Well, no, there's cap fees. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a separate fee. Okay. So the the capacity fees, impact fees, SDF fees, they all kind of mean the same thing, but that's going back to paying for like future expansion needs for the entire community.

Like they there would be um you know estimated in 20 years we know we're going to have to expand the sewer plant for example. You know they're they're collecting fees up front for that future expansion. That's what that's for. But in terms of like building the infrastructure, developer has to pay for that upfront.

Cool. Any more questions on utilities? Moving on to parks. Uh so um this is again what we were talking about. parks uh parks department is using a consultant called pond and we are looking at um finalizing those discussions so we don't have a final recommendation yet uh I can say what is it page 60

oh I'm so sorry could you go back to waste I'm so so

on page 58 one thing I one thing I highlighted it says as described in the PDD Chattam Park will s I'm sorry 58 the last paragraph as described in the PD Chattam Park will serve as a sole point of contact for all storm water maintenance and compliance responsibilities and so I wanted to know is this part of the annual review that you would do with the staff and and what mechanisms does a town of Pittsboro have in terms of compliance with that is it something that someone would have to like report or how does that all work? So it's we require that all storm water devices in town be maintained and they're each each private storm water device whoever that owner is you know business or HOA of a subdivision or something like that they have to provide annual inspections. So this that statement is just saying that the Chattam Park is just agreeing that they will be um maintaining all storm water devices, not I guess Tri River or the town,

right? Cool. And that's pretty standard. But if there wasn't if there was an issue like not even with Chattam Park, but anybody's storm water stuff like you get a violation get a violation from from the Oh, okay. Cool. event. Thank you. Um on page 63.

We're still working out the details on this table. Um and the note at the bottom where it says final sizes and locations will be verified during the subdivision and site plan approval process. We we want that to be clarified to state that it'll be determined by the town of Pittsburgh um prior to section design plan approval. So we'll be working out the details well before we get plary platin site plans. Okay. And that again that goes back to the intent of the section design plans.

On that same page on 63, what is potential Chattam Park improvement site? Did I Did I miss what that in the in the chart? The header in the in the chart. I didn't I didn't understand what that meant. Potential Chattam Park. Is that just uh actual like an improved park versus Okay. So, one that has equipment.

Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. here originally it was committed and things change allow that flexibility there so that if there was a different area that could potentially change any other general questions on this chapter again we're we'll give final recommendations from staff and and the consultant. Um, so next few chapters I think are pretty uh we can kind of get through them pretty quickly I would think like public arts chapter 6 don't really have much information on that yet. We'll get the, you know, more details as development occurs throughout the um South Village. Any questions on that? So, these are all just required chapters. That's why they're in here, which is a good thing. But with this being a large conceptual plan, we just don't have all those details worked out yet. Chapter seven, cultural and historical resources. So, uh, they did the applicant did provide um an assessment based on the whole 5,000 acres and we did have a um a local professional review it um with the historical association and they did submit uh comments which I I don't think there was anything. It was more for future reference, but um I think that was

included that's included in our final um notes for with the TRC notes. So I can provide those to you if you'd like to see. And the next chapter is phasing. Everything that's required for for the applicant to provide is is provided. Um it's just for future reference. Again, chapter 9, public facilities. This is what Chattam Park is proposing and um we have looked at it internally still working out some of the details on parks and greenways but um in general uh you know there'll there'll be notes on any concerns that we see but again this is all conceptual too so it could change in the future. But this is a good tool again um for everybody to use to get an idea of how this South Village is going to be laid out. So, if you go to um let's see page 91, but there's an additional

I think it's we might have passed it in terms of parks. Yeah. Chapter 5, we didn't go through all the maps, but the maps do show a lot more detail on park locations. Um, so you I mean, if you want to look through your paper copies, like page 62, for example, shows proposed park locations. So, even though it's conceptual, there's been a lot of planning that's been involved from the private side and then from the town side as well and hiring a consultant. Um

those are all they could all change though, right? They could if needed, but uh unless something an issue let's say happens in the future where today maybe one of those park locations isn't in a flood plane. Maybe it will be 10 years from now. Let's just say then, you know, of course t staff would say, "Let's look at a new location." Otherwise, we wouldn't change it unless there's a reason. Okay? You know, this this has been vetted and looked at internally and through a professional consultant. So, overall, it makes sense.

Um, but no, it's not written in stone. Um, chapter 10 is the appendix. So, these are all the required elements that the applicant provided. A lot of it gives more detail and what's already in the plan, but not necessarily needed in the chapters in the beginning. There's also theou with the schools attached starting on page 133 if you wanted to read that. I know there were some questions about um what the school's review process looked like and the the input that I received when I spoke with them was that they look at school construction more within like a 5year timeline. So as of right now uh they they are agreeable to the one site shown but through the MRU there is a um there's language that speaks to additional schools

like a threshold of population or students per class or the schools they have um an assessment that they do. Yeah, manually. I have a copy of it I can show you. Um, but it goes through, you know, what the needs are. Yeah, I've seen it and stuff and we're sharply past the carrying capacity, you know, I mean, this is in a number of years and stuff. Um, so if they committed to one, but we'll likely need four, you know, again, um, at what point do do we compel them to build another one? Is that is there a measurement based on homes? Do they have to build any? Do they? Yeah.

The town be responsible for building this school. No. No. It's I'm sorry, not the town. County. County. County. Yes. I mean, it's pay taxes for it. The county also has an impact fee for schools as well for each home that new home that's being built. Um but yeah, there's a difference in what existing schools are over capacity compared to what uh the applicant will be provided to build based on what the development triggers within the south village such as like number of homes or

so if a school's already over capacity let's say in another area and channel park is building

there's a there's a a system that is in place for the schools to decide okay at what point is a new school actually required. Um so in North Carolina the reason that um we don't have let's say like required school fees is the town controls the development. So, you know, if there's an issue with um schools being over capacity, each jurisdiction in North Carolina has the ability to say no to stop development.

Of course, Channel Parks already was reszoned with conditional resoning with entitlements um to move forward. And that's why we're planning on schools that are needed. But just in general, you know, as the town keeps approving and approving more development, that should be something that we're thinking about. Are the school needs because um the developers not paying for the schools.

Where are they putting the schools? That's something that would be worked out between the in the south village. That's worked out between the school system and the applicant in initial conversations, but it would be discussed with the town whenever they're proposing their section design plans. So if the schools say we need another school because of the population that park is bringing then we would ensure that that is met within that section design plan that would trigger that requirement. Okay.

So it's a little different. I guess the conversation that we're having is a little different for the south village versus like brand new development. Well, I mean, effectively, it's kind of like brand new with the the volume of homes compared to what's already existing there. It's a total different density. It's not a brand new development in the fact that it was already approved, though. Oh, yeah. I I see for one. Okay. Up to 22,000 homes. One school. Okay, we got it. No. Okay. But we know there's going to be more schools needed for sure.

I mean, Pittsburgh is uh uh just under 5,000 and we have several schools already over capacity. Yeah. Um cool. So, um that's the last chapter. It's the appendix. Um I think that was everything. Oh wait, sorry. I mean just with that like channel park will reserve a sufficient number of school sites, right? And they have one reserve. That's probably not sufficient. Right. Correct. That will be evaluated further on. I think you said yes.

A fiveyear plan and we're talking about a a what a a 30year plan or Well, the Yes. at least 15 to full build out. You I mean you can read theou um between the schools and Chattam Park. Uh but based on my conversation with the school system, they they would work out when a school's required. we'd be in contact with them and then when that is needed it would be required in the section design plan.

And going back to that land use chart in chapter 2 the schools would be in the parts that are identified already as park and institutional. No, not necessarily. So where would they be? I mean would they be in the residential areas or we don't know exactly the location could be in any of those areas and they could be outside of this potentially. Yeah, that is that is much more a a county Yeah, it is decision. Yeah.

So, unless you have any more questions um of anything else while we we have Teresa. Now, if you don't mind, I know you took notes of um deliverables. would you just remind us or me of some of those deliverables just so I make sure I'll list too I was gonna go oh cool super thank you start and you can so the go ahead there is a discussion around legislative option for the STPs uh going to work on that language a little bit it sounds like the asterct items oh correct

uh the traffic to impact analysis I think several people here would like to see that Um, we have a question for the applicant on their plans for work, quote unquote work, um, for next meeting. Um, there were a lot of questions around utilities to include natural gas and water and easements just to see if there is some more information there given this is a a big overarching plan. To see the to see the consultants report.

Oh yeah, thanks. And then that's what I had. I had a question around the Lorax extension. I think the EUBAC Eubanks extension is good to go, but the Lorax extension, I don't quite understand that, but we can save that for later as well. Well, if you want to at least uh say what your question, I can look into it. I just the there's just looks like there's two extensions that go through into town that are both I think it's been I think the board's talked about Eubanks already. I haven't heard much about the Lorax extension. Looks like it's uh going and go through J Park to Lorax Lane. If that's part of the TIA, it'd be good to see that. I don't know if it is. It is. And it's not a TIA at this point. Um it's the model.

There's an overall model that was created. Our KK is reviewing that. TAS come more at the smaller scoping. Yes. So when we have a better idea of what the trips per day are going to be for a specific section, that's when they would submit the TIA. TIA would show more of like what the actual improvements are needed like stop signs, turning lanes, stop lights, t traffic circles, things like that.

Guess is the the Lorax extension is it already got is everything already ready to go with that or is that future problems that we have to look at? So, uh, in the CTP, it goes from from 15501, you have the 15 US 15 connector, and that goes through private property. Um, and I guess if we want to go back to that map, if you're more of a visual, I want to get ahead of the Lorax extension in case there are concerns. That would be page 33. I think the Eubanks is is pretty well set based on the Yeah. previous discussion with the board

um as she's bringing that map up. Uh Lorax lane so 15 US 15 connector transitions into Lorax lane Lorax lane starts in uh where Robersonson's walk is if y'all remember that resoning. Yeah. And that's right where the plant is. Right. So currently it's just a private access easement. It's going to be um constructed as a public rideway. So, uh if you look at the map, I don't know. We can't zoom in, can we? Like towards the center of town. It's right there.

You see the US 15 connector. Um Lorax extension starts at where Industrial Park Drive is. you know where that is where the screen um you go through Robersonson's walk and then it goes through some private property like the Whitesway right property and then in the gray areas where Chattam Park is required to start building looks Yeah, I didn't see this map. The other one just shows this big line cut through everything. So this is very helpful. Yeah, that is. So where X lane's already being constructed um outside of Chattam Park. They're just required to connect to it. Okay. Thank you. We'll take a look at this. Thank you. And then one other kind of

I have a question about the Eubanks connector south where it hits Bill Thomas Road. Okay. Chattam Park would be developing the red area and then right I think to know exactly what Chattam Park's going to be developing, we would need to look at their transportation because this is the town's CTP. Yeah. Um it's not it's not exactly what they have. So if you go to page 35. Yeah. And you can see they removed several of those future corridors on the eastern side.

My question is what would happen to this built Thomas road? This little piece here. One that's black existing. It's an existing road minor thoroughare almost. Um, so if Chattam Park is developing Eubanks Road and then what's going to happen to transition it to the Bill Thomas road [Music] Pittsburgh? Yeah.

Yeah. we wouldn't be able to require that. Um, when we receive the consultants recommendations, I'll make sure we look at what they say specifically on. Yeah, that's where the water line's coming off of too, right up there. Oh, yeah. No, that's a good question. I'll I'll ask about that because we haven't received RK's recommendation yet. Right. I don't understand your question about how the connect and I think previously I just assumed that this whole road would be developed like a major thorough affair right

well at the same time but now that I'm looking at it just stops somewhere someone's little portion down here would that be consistent with the rest of Eubank's road and who would be responsible for making it consistent Yeah, that I'll ask the only the only um typically in those situations either the existing thoroughare is adequate. Um it's a gravel road.

It's a gravel road. Okay. Well, we'll we'll ask RK about that with their review. Right. And that can also be something that we can add for the um applicants to address as well.

I mean, it's another point as to like when we're talking about the parks or things that are greater or less than five five acres and those are potential future expenses for the town, right? You build a road that bs up a subway, it's like well then now it's another expense for the town to do and stuff. So, um, we talked about things that we'd like to see and present and I would like a much more like kind of robust financial impact analysis or something that at least includes expenses and doesn't include revenue that does not go to us like Tri Rivers revenue. Well, there's so there's going to be examples like this that we're going to see throughout the development. Typically, the way it's done is when you get the proposal,

that's when you do the TIA. The TIA does say that, you know, if an existing road needs to be improved. Yeah. But how much? Yeah. Yeah. Based on like the proposed development, right? And based on the proposed development, I' it would be nice to see what those expenses are, like what what they Yeah, we wouldn't know that yet though. So, for example, would be like Reeves Farm. Um, the reasonzoning was approved or initially for that development. Mhm.

We did not know what exactly what road improvements were going to be needed on roads outside of Bridge Farm. As we're now going through the plenary plat review process and they submitted their TIA, we now know that improvements are needed on 64 business west. And that's because we were at that level of development where we would need to know like what are the improvements that are going to be required like the impact that this development is creating on existing roads they have to make that improvement. So like if they're putting in if Reese Farm is putting in um a stoplight 15 uh excuse me 64 business that's when that would be just figured out is when we're at that level. We know exactly what they're proposing, what the development is, and they have to make that approved.

There'll be any can they say that there will be no additional expenses to current or future town residents that live that that future developments can show that if a TIA shows that my concern with that though is this or this is just one small example, but just any expenses were absent, right? How much is this going to cost current residents to go through? you know, or will it cost us anything out of pocket or will we be or will our taxes decrease because of it? You know, I mean, um, now if a devel if it's if a development is causing an impact

to existing infrastructure and it needs to be improved, that development is required to make those improvements before they can build. So it won't cost any town or ETJ resident or county resident any sort of expense for this whole development. Um if it's something that correct if it's something that is a need based on this development that is correct but that's not going to be decided until we get more details on what they're actually proposing. What concerns me about the Bill Thomas road though is that that is connected to a major road. Yeah, that is something that RK should have looked at, right?

So, I will I will definitely check on that. I just wanted to make the point that there's going to be lots of examples of this where we don't know all the impacts until we get more detail more detailed plans and if that happens um if if this is a gravel road and then this becomes a thoroughfare you're saying Chhattam Park would be responsible because it's an I mean how what's the how do you figure out what's and this is going to impact the existing you know how do you figure that out

that's the TIA will show you this is what the impact this development is going to bring. And in order to um mitigate that, it's going to require, you know, an existing road to be improved to a four-lane road. Who would pay for that? The developer. Developer, even though typically, unless it's something that the town um also needs to be improved, but like Eubanks is a good example. Um the CTP shows that as a future four-way road.

So as uh channel park is developing Eubanks, we went ahead worked with DOT in advance and talked about it can stay the two lane up until we get to a certain part uh point and then it's going to have to be improved. So yeah, I'll look into the Bill Thomas road. I mean, I'm just saying what the typical process is, and I use Reese Farm as an example because that's like the most recent one that y'all looked at. Um, where they had to make an improvement to an existing road outside of their development because of the impact their developments making on that road, if that makes sense.

Yeah. I just want I just want to make sure I just want to find out one how the decision- making occurs, right? Like so in the traffic impact analysis, that's great. And then once that decision once that has been identified, who ultimately has to pay for it? And and as long as it sounds like as long as the agreement between the town and the developer is that it's it's definitely the developer who has to pay for it, then it's fine. The question to me is how do you who makes a decision about ultimately this is your responsibility to pay versus my responsibility?

I can't I can't speak to every single situation. I mean, we don't have anything in the UDO or anything that says XYZ has to be done because every situation's different. I mean, if you want to, it goes, it's actually um through federal case law. Um the it's the rough proportionality test. You want to like look into planning and like it's uh it's based on case law. Mhm.

So, you know, if it's just if it's a if someone just wants to build five homes and the CTP shows that they have to, you know, that a thorough affair goes through that property, we can't make them build that, right? But if it's a 5,000 acre, 22,000 unit um development, that's different.

So, you got every situation is a little different. You have to decide what is proportional to what the built the proposed development is if that makes sense. But yes, in general the town can require the development to improve it based on the TIA. But in this particular situation with Bill Thomas Road, I'll I'll check into that and get back to you. I I have a different kind of question about Bill Thomas Road. It's It's currently a little gravel road with some people living along there. What if they like their little gravel road?

They're they're not part of Chadam Park. If if Cadam Park decides that that that needs to be improved to become a four-lane busy road, what what options do those neighbors have? Will they get a public hearing? will they have a chance to to say we want to keep our dirt road.

Yeah. And again, it goes to every situation is different. So, if we're talking about an existing public rideway, it currently could be a gravel road, but if the town uh decides that it needs to be a two-lane paved uh thoroughare, then that they can't the adjacent property owners can't dictate what is going to happen to that road in the future. Do they get no no input? I mean, do do they have any any chance to voice their opinions before this happens?

Okay. So, I'm going to try and explain this. This entire 5,000 acre piece of land, this was already approved.

Bill Thomas Road is not part of that 5,000 acres. I I understand the when this property was reszoned, they the entitlements were given for 22,000 um units and square footage. So, we we would always try and work with adjacent property owners and try to find something that is the best fit. We also can't um stop a development from occurring either because uh existing property owners want to keep something a gravel road. I know that's not like a clear answer, but you know that's that just kind of goes along with zoning law and propose you know like once you're entitled we move forward in making those developments occur. We try to mitigate you know it.

Yeah. I mean, I look at the map and it looks logical that you would make that you would improve that road all the way out to Monure Road. I My question is what do the the neighbors what what are their options? Do they have any option or like legally do they have options? Well, I mean, as as part of the the public process, do they do they

they can speak their concerns and, you know, if it's a legislative decision like the original reasonzoning, then that could always, you know, it could have been denied at that point, like we want to keep this a small gravel road. Um, the decision to allow, you know, a very large development to occur on that road has already occurred. So at this point the process is let's try and mitigate concerns that we have from existing property owners. You know to say that we would um stop a major you know thorough affair from going through that road even though it's on our comprehensive transportation plan. I mean we'd have to change we'd have to change our entire CTP for that purpose. So, you know, it's it at this point, especially if it's already a rideway, it can be improved as needed by the town.

I'm with Connie. I mean, I'm I'm looking here. We may not want to encourage people to use that road. I mean, it looks like, and I'm don't have a ruler with me, but looks like 2,000 ft to the north is where they would uh connect up with the what Chattam Parkway extension. That may be where we want people to go. Not not up dump them out onto a road. Yeah. Yeah.

We we'll look at what the um comments are from RK when we receive them and I can let them know what the comments were, you know, from this and get back to you for sure because I'm I'm not a transportation planner and we don't have one on staff. So that's why we consulted this out. I can tell you what, you know, the laws are around it in general, but trying to decide where a corridor should go and what type it should be, that's definitely not my area. Just asking to see the traffic impact analysis around that to make sure that it's consistent.

So that would be the model, but you can't review the model unless you have special software. So, you know, that again, that's why it was consulted out. Um, I think that report should hopefully hopefully that report, it's not a TIA, whatever it is, right? Yeah. And then if we figure it out, if they have a recommendation about who pays for it, that would be super duper as well. Well, the the the applicant had to pay a fee prior to submitt. She's talking about possible improvements. Oh, I bet you meant the the Thank you. Cy.

So, yeah, we'll get those comments to RK and K and get back to you on them, but they're they're great questions for sure.

No, I want to follow up on something Matt brought up, the financial impact analysis. It there's the piece that's like, what is this going to cost the town over the next 30 years? Has there been any work or discussion around What happens from years 20 to 50? Is a town finance department or the staff looking at the impact of the next 30 years financially from a cost perspective that would give us at some point it may not be today or next week or even I would hope in time for the town board to vote but something that would give a town a understanding of the long-term impacts financially for this development.

Yeah. And I the town's been working on long range plans for capacity needs like staffing and buildings and things like that. Uh separate from what it's being provided from Chattam Park because we're not looking at just Chattam Park obviously. Um so yeah to answer your question yes um Chattam Park has provided that analysis. there has been more information requested internally. So, we'll we'll get that to you. Um, but as development occurs, then you know there's more tax revenue and the ability to hire additional staff and things like that that that is being looked at already before we even received this analysis based on like all the projected growth. All right. How's everybody feel? Fine. As far as do you have any more questions you feel you need

that haven't already uh haven't already been thrown out and we'll be waiting on a on a response. I I would just like to say I I'm still concerned about the timeline. You know, when when this was presented to us at our last meeting, the clock started ticking. It didn't. So yeah, that's what Yeah. So tonight we keep hearing over and over, this is to be determined. We'll find more out later. So we still don't have anything final, but the clock is ticking. Um

what I can gather um because the language is a little confusing. So we've looked at it again internally at least we the way we're interpreting it is even if the 60 days has passed the town board does not have to make a decision and the town board can say uh the planning board you know is uh reviewing some comments and questions they asked and staff is getting that back to them. they need a little more time. That's that's the way we're interpreting it. That's fine. And the town board does not have to make a decision until that's done.

So, what's the expectation for us for our next meeting? Do do you expect We're going to try and get all of your questions answered um by this by this meeting this month if we can. So, we would basically have packets go out. When does Monday? Not next Monday. No, the following Monday. Not this Monday. Is it Monday? Okay. So, we have a wait has like a week 65 hours. No.

Okay. Well, we will we will get as much as we can back to you in by the time the packets go out and maybe even after the packets go out, we can try to get some questions answered and we can get back to you at the meeting. And so you may still be answering questions at our next meeting. Correct. And then so then would you expect us to vote that night?

Or if a motion comes to the floor to vote on it, then we'll vote on it. Yeah, I mean I if there's still some I would say you know concerns based on questions y'all have answered and staff is getting back to you on them then you know we'll we'll try to get that to you this for this month's meeting and then we can you know take it from there if you need more time. Um my point was though that the town board does not have to decide after 60 days. What is the 60-day thing though? That's just what was agreed upon in 2015. That's the language that was agreed upon. It says

it says that the planning board if you don't make a decision within 60 days uh the town board can consider it whether you make a recommendation or not. It's our recommendation they can consider. Okay. Doesn't mean the way we looked at it again when we uh you know after the concerns were raised uh we looked at it again. It doesn't say they have to consider just we're looking at consider as they just are reviewing it. They don't have to make a vote right away after 60 days. So, thank you for all the time. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you guys. You asked some great questions. We'll get back to you. Um well, I suppose then uh I will accept a motion to adjurnn. Second by Alan Wilson, seconded by uh Christina Pard. Uh all in favor say I. I. I.