Planning Board - Regular Meeting

And in the interest of time and fairness, it is the board's policy not to respond directly to comments during this period. Staff will follow up as appropriate. Um, first on the list, we have Katherine Deninger. Dinger. Dininger. Thank you. coming around.

Okay. Good evening. I'm Katherine Dininger. My address is 124 Goldberry Lane, Pittsburgh. Um, and I have a question with regards to the Chattam Park small area plants. Um, first of all, I work for a small woman-owned small environmental consulting firm called Biosnosis. Some of you may know me, remember me from past work I've done for the town of Pittsburgh. I coordinated the Robeson Creek Watershed Council for over 10 years. I helped in the environmental assessment and drafting of the Southwest Shores report. I worked with the Wildlife Resource Commission and the North Carolina Forestry Service to develop um planning tools for the town of Pittsboro to develop protections for your natural resources. I also was actively involved in reviewing the elements of the Chattam Park master plan. Chattam Park is the largest plan development district in the eastern half of the United States. When the Chattam Park master plan was approved by the Pittsboro Town Board in 2015, it was with the assurance that there would be a small area plan application process. The assurance of the small area plans was an essential part of why the PDD was approved. The intention was that the future town boards of Pittsboro and the public would have a set process to review and comment prior to approval of small development plans within a normal planning cycle. I am sure Chattam Park Investors has already developed a lot of internal plans for how they hope the PDD will be developed, but the small area plans application was not set up for Chattam Park's internal planning. It was set up to ensure that there would

continue to be a public planning process that would make sure that this unprecedentedly large planned district would meet the changing concerns and needs of the public at the time of development. reducing what was expected to be at least seven plus small area plans over a span of decades to just two relatively large area plans in less than one decade does not meet commitments made in the Chattam master plan to a continued public planning process. We do not know exactly what development tools and problems the future Pittsboro community will be facing. So here's the question. Why can the Chattam Park investors not meet the commitment they made in the master plan to develop small area plans for any section that exceeds 15% of the development for that section? If you look at that original map,

is that it? That's great. Okay. Sorry, I was not expecting the music either. One one more statement. Please ask Chattam Park to focus on developing a small area plan for the area it expects to develop within this decade. So essentially phase 2 A. Thank you. Thank you.

Uh next we have Steve Wolfford. All right. Good evening everybody. I am Steve Wolford of 3355 Woody Store Road. I don't live in Sil City, but that's my post office. I'm out in the county. Um, what initially excited me about Chattam Park was it being described as smarter, greener type of growth and people felt like there was a partnership where the developers truly wanted to build that kind of better community. More recently, I started hearing about the planning partnership being maybe a little more adversarial. Uh, people describe backpedaling on some of the greener asurances of storm water and trees. Uh my understanding was that the original overall development would be broken into small area plans. I think last question just said here um where each plan would be looked at carefully and Pittsburgh would have years to ensure the newest best on development could be implemented along the way. Then I was hearing that CPI seemed impatient with that earlier agreement and now wanted everything approved right away in one single gigantic small area plant. I didn't see any indications that it was Pittsburgh wanting that revision. Um, so I'd like to know why CBI is changing things. Um, I only see this change bringing drawbacks. Client science, climate science is constantly advancing, as is technology in general. Uh, in the last 10 years, wind and solar went from being unaffordable to now being the cheapest sources of energy. Transportation systems are evolving in response to the needs of today and tomorrow. Flood maps are being updated. Communities around the country are developing better ways

to organize life in better harmony uh with our changing environment and to manage the the community costs from development. Um try to ask what future homeowners would prefer yesterday's outdated models to the smarter new development arriving every month. what town wouldn't want to have as much ongoing oversight as possible into its ongoing growth. I was also concerned at statements saying we can't plan for something like tropical storm Shantel. Um why can't we? Uh maybe we can't prevent all the damage, but who would want a home where considerations like that were ignored or didn't get all the attention they could have had if people made the effort? Um, and I was also concerned by missing pieces of the draft SAP that I thought the master plan set would be included. If if this is going to happen in one big plan, why don't we have one big plan now? Um, so there were questions I had along those lines. Where are what are the FL sorry, what are the plans for the facilities that are going to be in this? Um, where's the financial impact assessment? Whose taxes are going to pay for services and ongoing maintenance? Um, how can a transportation analysis be done without knowing where the streets are going to be? How do we account for the likely evolution in transportation models over the next 30 years if this plan is finalized now? Um, sprawling roads bring uh extensive maintenance expenses. So, where's that money going to come from? Uh, so if I'm over time here, I guess I think there's different ways to do this, but I'd still like to see that partnership repaired so that people are working together. And I think I think the original plan would be a way for Pittsburgh and the developers to get the community they were wanting to have from the beginning. Thanks.

Thank you.

Up next, we have Betsy Krauss. Hello, my name's Betsy Krauss. I live at 680 Liking Trail, Pittsboro near Bard Tra. I'm here because I care about Chattam Park. It's going to impact me in North Chattam. It's going to affect people in Monure, Bear Creek, all over the county. It will have an impact as everybody up to Pittsboro. I know you care about Saturn Park, too, and I thank you for being here and your commitment to this uh planning board. Much appreciated. I'd like to bring the board's attention to some in issues around governance, specifically HOAs and POAS. Much of the governance of major aspects of the Chattam Park development such as storm water and open space is done through PO's AS and HOAs. These are important aspects of community life and can affect the health, safety and the welfare of the residents and the business owners who are members of those organizations. For example, the failure of storm water control measures can cause significant property damage and in extreme situations, injury and death. Open spaces and access to parks and natural areas have been shown to impact personal health and resilience. It is important that folks have ways to influence how these resources are managed. In addition, most homeowners will have HOAs that govern aspects of their own property. These HOAs also impact community members in many very specific ways, what they

can plant in their yards, what kind of basketball court they can have, backboard they can have, what color their house is, and the list goes on. HOAs can be great. They can foster community, relieve folks of yard work and maintenance, and they can they can make an environment that feels good and runs smoothly. At the same time, homeowners who don't who purchase a home without a full understanding of the HOA covenants of management processes and the f financial viability of their HOA can have very happy unhappy experiences. HOAs impact lives and what HOAs without representation give residents no way to have an influence on important aspects their lives. Involving residents in HOAs after 80% of buildout on um gives developers control of visual aspects of the community and can impact sales. I understand that. But it also impacts the resident's lives and folks should have a voice in the HOA when they purchase. So I asked what is Chadam Park's policy around HOAs and new homeowners? Who writes the HOA bylaws and covenants? And what are the plans for the size of HOAs in different parts of Chattam Park? I ask you to pursue these questions with the developers so that we can have answers before we forge forward on any kind of plan regardless of

I have more questions that I'll I'll

Thank you. We'll staff will follow up. Miss Mickey Atkinson. Good evening. I'm Vicki Atkinson. I live 361 Wild Ginger Ridge. Uh Chapel Hill is my address. 27517. I have two questions that I'm asking that the planning board pass on to staff for answers. Um, one is Chattam Park investors justification for this large small area plan is that they need it to plan the big picture of roads, sewers, utilities and ensure the systems work together. Those infrastructure plans are already in process and do not require approval. Chattam Park South has already been approved by NC DOT and arrangements for financing have already been completed. CPI has al already made thorough plans about sewer and utilities. In light of the fact that CPI does not need approval of this SAP to plan the big picture of the southern village, what is the advantage for the town to approve one giant plan rather than the multiple SAPs? And the second question is that smaller localized area plans are the best option for this 30-year project. Things that are going to change, ground conditions, economic conditions, global warming is going to bring more rainfall events in the Pedmont. The master plan calls for annual reviews. What is their record so far in relation to storm water and other violations? The large SAP locks the town into housing numbers that may change over the coming years. Increasing rainfall is

expected in the Piedmont and will impact storm water and add complexity. Once again, how will one large SAP accommodate these concerns? And in particular, what is the advantage of to the town of giving um Chattam Park investors control over these factors instead of the town retaining control? Thank you for your attention and for your work to the the town and the county. We really do appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Next, uh, Candace Hunicker.

And I do apologize if I if I butcher any names, just yell at me when you get up here. You You did very well. Yeah, thank you.

It's very impressive because that never ever ever happens. So, I'm Candace Huner. I live at 77 Cynthia Lane in Pittsburgh. And honestly, a lot of the questions that I had have been brought up like Vickiy's question on what is the advantage to the town for moving forward with this large small area plan, but I have one that I'm I'm questioning from the last board meeting and you guys asked some really good questions about this. Um, and it really kind of took up a discussion. Um, park investors said that they needed to move forward with this plan so that they could plan and build all the roads. And they said that delaying that approval would make it harder for them to anticipate what the roads that need to go in and the utilities that need to go in. And we there was even a discussion somebody ra I think this you raised the point about could you put more utilities next to the roads or next to the um existing pipes. But then they said that this whole plan let them anticipate the roads and the utilities for subdivision development outside of their area. So that seemed to be a little bit of a contradiction to me. So I was hoping you could maybe ask them to clear that contradiction up. And if the road traffic needs uh change as the development evolves, how will future planning boards be able to adapt if this one large SAP locks them into today's assumptions and road requirements, which I know someone else also brought up. Um I'm also concerned about long-term costs and taxes. Since the cost of maintaining the roads and the utilities become the responsibility of the town after a year, it's likely that those mainten maintenance costs, excuse me, will outpace new revenue from population growth and the tax base. And if that is the case, how will the shortfall um be met? And I hope it doesn't increase taxes on existing Pittsboro residents. And is it possible that we can get an

independent fiscal impact study to determine if the new PA tax base will actually cover the long-term infrastructure and service costs of such a large expansion. And I I think we need something like that because I just find it hard to imagine that we will fill those houses and get the tax revenue to cover any upcoming maintenance. Um, and I know there are a lot of questions that are being raised tonight. So, I'd ask you to pause on approving this until answers are found. And then how will we find those answers? Will there be a follow-up session um on the questions that were raised tonight or will is it possible for the town to post the questions and then the answers to on a website so that our questions can be answered? Um and look at that. I have 22 minutes or 22 seconds to spare. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Next. Uh, Jasmine Hyatt. I have a feeling I butchered that one, right? No. Okay.

Evening planning board and staff. Uh, my name is Jessimine Hyatt. I live at 248 Binham Church Road in Binham. Um I reviewed the transportation chapter, chapter 3 of the South Village small area plan and I have the following questions and comments from that chapter in sections A and B on thoroughares and roadway network. I just want to point out that there is a lack of definitions of numerous terms. So there's some lack of clarity there and I wasn't able to track that down um what the meaning of some of the roadway terms was. Um also the maps um provided by CPI are very difficult to read and interpret because they don't label enough roads and creeks for context. So um in figure 31 is the town CTP map and it is clear and comprehensible but the south village multimodal transportation plan labels very few roads and only one creek and it makes it difficult to compare to um map figure 31 or to Google maps and so it's obscure for public review. Um for example, what is the road indicated by the red line in figure 32? I wasn't able to figure that out. Um, it also says that the Bill Thomas Road, Eubanks Road extension, and the Lorax Lane extension were relocated to reduce environmental impacts. It they looked the same to me on both maps. And so I was wondering how environmental impacts were reduced by this supposed relocation. Um, in section G on bicycle and pedestrian facilities, I was wondering if figure 35 shows all of the planned bicycle lanes. um it didn't show very many and I was wondering whether experts in bicycle transit and walkability were consulted in the development of this plan because a city isn't actually

bikable or walkable unless all of the streets include multi-use paths. Um also are the neighborhood streets going to be interconnected on a grid pattern or a series of culde-sacs? the grid design is bikable and walkable, but the culde-sac design is not. Um, so I'm wondering who consulted with with CPI on on bicycle and pedestrian facilities. Um, and along with that has consideration um been given to planning bike routes not just for recreation but as transportation routes for people to get where they need to go um work, grocery store, school, etc. Um if so, how is that reflected in this plan? Um and if not, why not? Um we'll ask this one more question. Um in section H, transit accommodations, um how is it determined that there is no present need for transit services? To me, this seems to come back to the design priorities being centered around the car. Um if cities are designed for cars, people will drive cars. um if they're designed for transit and cycling, people will use those methods instead. Um so, how does a design that relies on the same old methods of increasing and widening roads for cars that run on confusing and inefficient curvy patterns demonstrate a forward-thinking commitment to climate and population density issues?

Thank you. Thank you.

Next, uh Lenor Yogurt. Lenar Lenor Jarger. Thanks. Um, thank you again for your attention to these matters. I'm going to just continue with Jessimine's points because she didn't have enough time to read all of them. Um, in under the section additional transportation issues on alternative street designs on the second page of her handout, there seem to be a lot of open possibilities here. What opportunities will the town and public have to review these alternative designs before they're implemented? Does approval of this small area plan give all of these undescribed alternatives blanket approval? Or does the approval of this plan mean that the details will be ironed out by CPI and town staff? And if the latter, will there be opportunity for public input at that point? Also, how do these designs I do these design ideas contribute to walkability, bikeability, and transit routes? would they work against these roles, these goals? Sorry. And then the section on typical roadway sections. In sections A and B, the narrative is consistent with the graphic. In section A, a multi-use trail is planned. In section B, it's shown and described as optional. In section C, however, the narrative states that bike lanes and a multi-use trail are planned for this section. However, the graphic does not reflect that. All it shows is a 5-ft sidewalk and lists an optional multi-use trail. This discrepancy needs to be resolved. In sections G2 and J G3, where will cyclists ride on these streets? It's known that it is not safe for cyclists to ride on sidewalks and also that it's not safe for cyclists to ride on streets next to parking lanes due to cyclists being struck by opening car doors. And the other question we had is why are any streets in the supposedly forwardthinking development being

planned without bike lanes? And the final point um that we wanted to make is that doesn't pertain to transportation was a question as viewing the small area plan is that it makes no mention of affordable housing. And chapter 8 under residential absorption table 8.1 shows zero apartments and condos being built until 2034 2034 excuse me. Presumably much of the affordable housing would be in the form of apartments. Does this small area plan provide for affordable housing to be built in the early phases of development? Thank you. Thanks again.

Thank you. Next we have Mora Dylan.

Good evening. Um I'm Mora Dylan and I live at 326 Micronite Road in Pittsburgh. I do feel like um a lot of my points have been stated already. Um so I'm going to skip a lot here and you can look at my handout. Um but I'm going to start I I also went through the plan and I was focusing on chapters one and two. Um, and the first two principles, well, I'm going to start with principle A, promoting a live, work, play lifestyle, um, is really a beautiful vision. And they articulate that in a nice little paragraph about, um, walking, biking, and driving short distances to work, sending their children to nearby schools and socializing at shops, recreation centers, libraries, etc. Um, and this is a wonderful vision, but it really does depend on the details, right? I mean, uh, to come up with a really rich, um, functional multi-use development takes a detailed, thoughtful planning. You can't just plunk things down in the same old way and have be successful. So, um, I have to say the small area plan defers many important questions about what facilities should exist and where they should go to the future. Um, and it seems like this would require much more um, incremental and phased planning. Um, are there plans for public facilities like libraries and community centers and cafes and restaurant districts and act activity centers beyond the actual South Village centers? Now, I know there are these activity districts, but um um and how many of these sorts of institutions would be appropriate for an eventual population of 65,000 people? Um, also what efforts are being made to create jobs with salaries commensurate with the cost of living to live in Chattam Park? What percentage of Chattam Park residents are likely to work inside

Chadam Park rather than commuting out of Pittsburgh um or Chattam County? Um, principle B um incorporating biophilic design qualities into all development within Chattam Park. you know, that's beautiful um and is a wonderful aspirational idea or it could be greenwashing um plain and simple. Um and so I I think it's important to go to the north village. Um how are the new homes and apartment buildings there? Are they really in close proximity of nature the way it's described here in the small area plan? Um the map that shows possible neighborhoods in the south village doesn't appear to show much access to nature. It's a little vague about what that means. I think in general it's very vague. Um and it's vague in very many aspects. Um, somebody uh pointed me to the Monure small area plan just the other day and that has some really nice appendices that have very um detailed information about things like financial impact analysis um and some other long-term visioning and contingencies that I thought was that could be very useful to have added to this plan. Um, thank you so much.

Thank you. Um before we have Carol Hewitt, is it possible we can get more lights?

Oh, no. No, it's fine. I feel like I might end up with a headache. Like it's it's a weird. The entrance is more effective in the dog. There you go. And I want to tell you the spirit being my main thing. Is that okay? Well, thank you for the give you three of these. Thank you.

Or how many there? Okay. Um I'm going to be brief. I am Carol Huitt. I I'm 424 Johnny Brook Pittsburgh. I think what I'm going to talk about, Teresa, is gonna come, but I just want to show you this one page from a five-page document that I didn't print, but I'm going to email you it to you, unless Theresa already did, and I think some of the people that spoke tonight are probably also going to follow up with emails. So, expect to see a lot of this in your email box. Um but um there is a five-page document was a nine-page now it's a five-page and it's called at the top of here it's called the process what is it called process for the small area plan right and this is page five and I just want to take you to again maybe Teresa is going to talk about this but I really want you to know your timing so once you officially not tonight you're going to get Teresa talking to you but once you officially get a small area plan presentation from Chattam Park, a 60-day clock starts ticking. You have 60 days, and if you don't get a a a vote and decide how you're going to, you know, vote on it and get it to the commissioners, the commissioners then have to act without your uh you know, your influence. So, I there just this is this is all so complicated and there's so many little pieces in here. I want to make sure you knew that one. So, let's say your meeting is in September. You get a presentation. your next meeting is October and the next meeting is November, but that one happens to be 62 days. You know, you just have to be really thoughtful and I don't know exactly how that works, but I know staff will make sure to take care of that for you. So, this next little period is so great for you, for us to really dive into this plan. Hopefully, by now you probably have got hardened copies of it. Um, we've had we've had a lot of fun learning about it. There's a lot in there. It's pretty it's it's amazing.

This is probably the biggest small area plan in the world being considered by a town of 4,000 people. You know, it's just it's pretty it's pretty radical thing. So, that's your that's on your paper. Just take a look at that. I do want to tell you that the nine pager and it's gone now, but I had a copy and this was in red, but my printer died. I just want to read you one line from this. This is gone. This is cut out now. Due to the project area size for small area plans, the applicant is not required to send individual meeting notices to all abuing property owners. Instead, it'll be posted in the town hall, etc., etc. So, this is so big that they're not required to give the respect to the neighbors of even notifying them when when that public meeting was held. If I you know, this is again, this is gone. But it's just interesting if it's if something's too big that you can't even tell your neighbors what you're up to. It's too big in a small town like this in my humble opinion. And I believe there is also talk in this fivepage document of a public meeting and and that probably happened maybe that was like a December meeting but when we get out 8 10 n 9 10 12 months um it seems like even though it isn't required there might need to be another public meeting. So, that's just a just a concern, but I wanted to make sure you really were aware of of the time frames. Thanks, y'all.

Thank you. All right, that will conclude our public comment. We will move on to old business. Miss Teresa, you would Staff update for the small area plan.

Good evening everyone. Good evening. This the new microphone. Think so. Yes.

Thank you. Uh Teresa Thompson, assistant planning director. Tonight we're just going to give you an overview of the timeline. Um seems when I'm having conversations with people and I use terminology such as master plan versus small area plan, there's confusion on what does that all mean? So, we're going to kind of start from the beginning um of Chattam Park, go through the different steps of approval. Uh talk about where we are now and then some options to give you for next steps. Um feel free to ask any questions. I was not able to write down all the questions asked before. So, there are questions asked at the last meeting by the public this meeting. If you would like staff to respond, just let us know. We can do that. written form or bring it back to you again another meeting. Um so just let us know maybe maybe we can answer a lot of the questions tonight throughout the presentation or after it as well. All right so we'll start with the first slide. Um Chattam Park was resoned in 2015 so includes about 7,000 acres. Everything north of 64 business village that's about 2,000 acres. Everything south of 64 business uh east street is the south village and that's about 5,000 acres. So the north village has already been approved um for the small area plan. Back in 2015 when the resoning was approved there was a large document called the master plan that was a lot of the um guiding principles for China Park which we'll go into a little more detail on that in the next slide. Um, there was also a small area plan agreement. So, there's a chapter in the master plan that goes over what the small area plan

is and what the requirements are. There needed to be a little more detail for that. So, there was an additional agreement approved and it's been revised twice. So, it was approved originally in 2015. The most recent revision was 2023. Um, nothing major from what I saw. there was some um language that was streamlined regarding uh the review process. Uh so there was also 12 elements that have been approved throughout the years. I'll go through those in a little more uh detail in a second. And then as I mentioned the north village small area plan was was originally approved in 2021. I was involved in that review and um presenting that to the town board and planning board. uh it was revised in 2023 uh in April and then again in August. Um so that is finalized. Now we're going through the south village process when we're not we have it to be determined for the date of approval for that. So um when the small area plan is given to you to start reviewing the actual small area plan which has not happened yet. staff is still working with the applicant on um the final submitt. You will have 60 days to review that. So after 60 days whether you give a recommendation for approval or not um it must be submitted to the board of commissioners for final consideration. So just so you know that was something that was approved back in 2015. Um, that's a requirement. Also, before the board of commissioners makes a decision, we have to have at least two weeks of public input where we we receive comments from the public either through emails or letters. Um, they also have to have a public comment period at that meeting where they plan to make the decision. But the town of

Pittsburgh, you know, we've accepted public comment periods obviously well before then um which we will provide what we have received with in the packet as well. So you can have an overall um view of all the different public inputs uh like letters and emails we received. Is that um the final public input input that you're talking about? Is that after um the planning board makes a recommendation? Yes, that's that's how it was approved. Okay. In the language one.

So, any questions about the overall steps of approval in time one? Okay. Um so, as I referenced, there's 12 elements. Thank you. Um, and you can think of the elements as chapters in our UDO. So, back in 2015, um, we didn't have a UDO. We had pretty outdated ordinances, a bunch of freestanding ordinances. Um, the zoning ordinance, I think, hadn't been updated since like the '9s um, at that time. So, Chadam Park drafted, presented, and got approved 12 different elements. So the first one being definition, general provisions, phasing, open space, tree protection, landscaping, storm water, parking, signage, lighting, public art, transit, and public facilities. Oh, and there's also the affordable housing as well that's been included. Um, so when staff reviews preliminary plat site plans, this is what we're looking at. um there's additional requirements in the master plan and then anything that's not covered by either the master plan or one of these elements reverts to PDO. So for example, uh major subdivisions when we go through that process of what's required for like preliminary plat approval, what needs to be on that we we go by the UDO and the UDO has an administrative manual where we have a checklist and everything. So Chattam Park has to follow the same rules as anyone else that submits a plenary plot in the town. Otherwise, their rules are uh different than what the UDO rules

are. Does that make sense? Okay. Um, and back to the master plan. So, there's information on each of these different elements. It goes into more detail in the additional elements that I just went over. Um, and then like I said, there's a chapter on small area plans. And then there's additional provision language at the end of the master plan. back in 2015. This was the map that was approved. It was um a land use plan map. Uh you can see the yellows are pretty much the residential areas, blue is research and development. Orange is the mixed use and um or red is the mixed use. And well, yeah, orange is mixed use for residential and red is mixed use for non-residential. And there's also activity centers which are the circles that are purple. So with the North Village plan um the purpose of the plan is to give more detail and it can update things that are like the plans and um maps in uh that have already been approved. So like the master plan map for example has changed slightly as you can see from what was approved in 2015 to what got approved in 2023 or originally 2021. So yeah, the small area plan basically is that additional step to the conditional resoning where you have um some discretion on what the issues that you want to see addressed are the small area

plan can supersede what was already approved. And then comparison to the south village. So on left side is 2015 map right now is uh what we have is this draft. This is what was on uh what staff put on the website. So we have been working with Chattam Park on additional um uh updates to it, but we wanted to use like what's on the website for everybody to see so it's consistent. Um, so you can see again there's some differences in the 2015 versus the proposed 2021. And like I said, north of 64 is 2,000 acres, south is the 5,000 acres. Um so as those changes are made and stuff is there a place that um clearly like articulates the differences and stuff like for instance now the draft and then when things come um to us like this is specifically what's changed and line item by line. Okay.

Well so when we present the plan to you we will include a staff report. So like what we did on the north village was have what the requirement is per whatever it is whether it's the master plan a specific element um what the small area plan proposes whether it's this we'll say if it's the same as the requirement or if it's something different and then we'll have a staff comment to that whether you know staff agrees that this is um adequate or not

but any deviations from the current draft and stuff will that be like pretty salient what those deviations are changes are uh you know between like the different drafts um I mean that's become very familiar with current draft and stuff what's on the website 100% yeah so it' be helpful to like be very diff what well it's just uh we do have a redline version. Okay. Um that we could submit, but I mean just to go through and explain like what each like sentence or word or something like that has changed

meaning seemingly if it was a couple words that were removed or rephrased and stuff that's one thing. But if there were meaningful changes and stuff with locations or sizing see what you're saying be helpful. So when we present the final draft to you, we'll try to put together a table of what those differences are between the first.

Okay. So um per the master plan and per the agreement for the the smaller plan review process, what is the purpose of the small area plan? So the smaller plan shall reasonably reflect the anticipated needs and services for the development in that area and the methods proposed to provide the same. The small area plan shall be acceptable to the town. It should contain more specific information than what's in the master plan. So again, the master plan was in 2015. So to kind of keep everything moving forward, it was yes, we'll preview today and we want to see you come back again um with more information. Uh the intent is also that the small area plan doesn't contain as much information as you would see like on a pimary plat or a site plan. Um that's when you have like the engineered drawings and uh it's a lot it's it's pretty much locked in at that point. So it's kind of in between those two steps. Um there are 27 sections in Chattam Park and Chattam Park can submit one or more at a time and so staff uh once that's submitted staff has to review that. So for the south village that includes 16 sections um that have been submitted into one submitt and that is what staff is reviewing. And again we're going to go through that in a second um on where we are now with the review process and some potential next steps for that if if the um you know one small area plan is approved. Um lastly, like I mentioned before, this is a legislative process. So you there is discretion involved in

that. Um compared to like a preliminary plat, you know, if you meet all the standards, if they have to be approved, a legislative is more like a conditional resoning. So you think about um what the the needs are for that specific area. We want to make sure that those are addressed. Um, and then what are the requirements? So, these are there's three slides that go over what needs to be in a small area plan. So, when staff receives a small area plan, we go through this list. If it's in the plan, we check yes. It doesn't mean that staff has approved it or thinks it's adequate, but we have checked that yes, they do have a section or a specific map for this. So this is more about the existing conditions um for the smaller plan. The next is what the uh details need to include. So detailed descriptions um including location and quantity of proposed uses, the road layouts, bike and ped facilities um connections, transit services, water and sewer, storm water, recreation, open space, public art, public facilities. Public facilities means anything that is going to be pretty much owned by the town that's open to the public. So that can be streets, um water, sewer, which that would be tri river, but it's still considered public, schools, fire, police stations, greenways. Um and then a description of the southwest shore plan recommendations. Any questions on

um and then they also have to submit analysis. So that includes a transportation planning analysis which they have submitted a model um and the town has hired a third party to review. So um we're still working on receiving their input. Uh we asked the third party to compare um what the needs are in the future for the town of Pittsboro compared to what the town park model shows. also compared to our future comprehensive transportation plan map. So it has what we already have approved for the town are specific corridors that go through the town. Um granted this plan is uh over 10 years old but um it's what we have to look at for now. So if John Park presents or recommends anything that's different from that then we're asking the consultants to compare what's in our plans to what the model shows and basically is what uh channel park proposing adequate for that.

Sorry one more question. This might be a a dumb question and stuff, but I know previously and stuff I've seen like I mean I have a kid I have two little kids and stuff and I look at like school capacity and like the rate at which it gets into the red in terms of over capacity and stuff going from, you know, 27 or 16 um small area plans to one small area plan. Do do studies like that change, you know, is it if the slope can get really steep or maybe even shallower, but I doubt it would be the latter. Um do those things get readressed or re-evaluated? Yeah, in terms of potential I'm kind of gonna address that. Okay, sounds

presentation, but just it might help with a specific example since you gave one. So, um, what S Park has presented right now is this 5,000 acre plan. And what we'll go through in a second is what staff's recommendation is if that is to be approved. Um, with this being a plan that could be a 20, 30, 40 year out timeline,

um, Chattam County Schools kind of they look at more of a fiveyear outlook when they're, um, scheduling, you know, school construction. So, with the requirements that were listed in the master plan, staff agrees that that has been included in this area plan. the level of detail uh needed for a 5,000 acre area is not sufficient for that. So to say today that we know exactly where the schools all schools need to be and how many

I was just thinking about like the rate at which they're in if it's more commercial first and more residential later that's different than if it's all you know residential first and like who's funding those schools you know is it existing residents first future residents right well schools as an example Yeah, too. We we are looking at a school's meeting to be built for Chattam Park.

There is a propo there's one school proposed right now per the language that was adopt or approved by the Chattam County schools is that it would be addressed as development occurs and that additional schools might be needed. So, going back to what I was saying with the 5,000 acre plan, what staff is recommending for that is for it to be a conceptual plan. So, we still see the benefit in that almost like a like a land use plan for Chattam Park. Um, it's kind of like a guiding framework from a planning perspective. That's really important to see the overall picture of, you know, how the roads are connected and what are the proposed uses. So looking at that uh comprehensively is very helpful. It's very beneficial.

Um staff also thinks that as development occurs with each section or portions of sections, we do need more detail. So going back to that list that I just went through of uh water, sewer, schools, etc. We would like to see that level of detail um for smaller areas throughout that 5,000 acre development. Do we get to do that though? I mean, this is again a d maybe a dumb question. So, if it's one small area plan that then is approved, we can expect that level of detail and scrutiny and discretion after the fact,

right? And and I'll go through a little more, but yes. Okay. So as I said before uh with what gets approved with the small area plan that supersedes the master plan. So if the small area plan gets approved with requiring an additional step of what staff is recommending to call section design plans or activity center design plans and it's mutually agreed upon between the town and Chattam Park then that can be an additional

requirement. Great. So, um, going back to this slide, Chadam Park has submitted the model. Um, they've submitted their, uh, utilities analysis, which Tri River is reviewing, and then a financial impact analysis, which our, um, finance director has been reviewing. The consultant, who's that? The name of the consultant. Yeah. KK. Do you remember Brian? No, I was asking Brian.

I think it's RK. I can double check. That was decided through engine the engineering department and Kent's no longer with the town. So, I can't he's not here. Um, we could also ask Ben Schmidki. He's with the engineering department and let you know. I can't remember the name of the who they eventually chose. Yeah, our uh engineering director was the main uh contact for that.

Do you know whether Tri River is using a consultant to help them with their assessment? that I have not heard that so I can double check. So, going back to what I said, so kind of running through that example um in mind, staff is recommending that the 5,000 acre small area plan be approved as a conceptual plan. Um, we include language similar to this on the first page to make it very clear that this document serves as a guide for how development could occur in the South Village. This conceptual plan is not intended to be considered final or the only way development may occur but presents concepts and guidance that may vary as actual development unfolds. Before a plary platter or site plan is approved or its applicable section titled section design plan or activity center design plan shall be submitted with the required information. And then we're going to go into detail of what all that is, but it will be very similar to what's already required in a smaller event. I have a fireprint question. You mentioned that um I mean does the PDD covers the entire 7,000 acres, right, of so the UDO wouldn't wouldn't ever come into effect unless it was outside of Chattam Park technically, right?

Um only if Chattam Park agreed to the So like like I they have their elements, right? So if they have an element already approved, Chattam Park has to go by that element. If there's something that is covered in the UDO but not in the element or master plan, then staff does look at that in the UDO. Otherwise, we don't look at the UDO for Chattark. We only look at these elements.

So if anything were to change, it would have to be mutually agreed upon. ask like it's again maybe like a 30 maybe it's not the right time to ask the question or for it to be answered and stuff and maybe we'll get to there and stuff and it was asked by our community members a couple times this meeting and last meeting and stuff. Um what is it like the the the real town benefit or what does the staff feel of approving a single small area plan first with um uh design plans and the activity center design plans and opportunities to um to enhance that or change or have some discretion over a conceptual plan over multiple small area plans like that's still that's what I'm still struggling to understand the um the benefit of for a time. So um staff looks at it as more of like a foundational plan for the south village. It provides a framework of what could occur but there was a lot of planning involved

work. So unless things change over time like the market changes for example. Yeah. Um the overall uh design of the south village probably not change drastically. Um

I mean if it's one or if it's many it wouldn't change. I'm just saying as development occurs over the next 20 30 plus years, we're we're going to be looking back at this uh conceptual small area plan for consistency for when they submit their smaller design plans. So is it maybe another way to say it like um the benefit of of approving one instead of many is the risk of having um opposing different small area plans or things that conflict one another over time. Yes.

And then that consistency throughout the sections. So if we didn't have this Chattam Park, they could just say, "Okay, we'll provide this one section." Now, we don't know exactly how that connects well with the adjacent sections. Um, they might not propose a park, a public park in this section. So, we kind of have to wait, you know, until the next section versus right now we have the whole 5,000 acres and we know how much acreage they have to provide towards public parks. So let's look throughout the entire South Village and see what makes sense comprehensively you know for public parks for example where it makes sense in relationship to school or the roads and residential sections versus research and development sections. Teresa, the um section design plans, will those go through us or will they just go to staff?

Staff recommends it going to the planning board and the board of commissioners. Okay, great. Yeah, just it provide more direction. I think that's a good way of explaining it though and stuff. Um so, thank you for that. Any other questions about Yeah, this looks like a happy Yeah,

thank you for asking that, Matt. That's beautiful. Um so if the small area plan is approved, staff has a few um recommendations for next steps. One would be for Chattam Park and the town together to provide annual updates to the town. Um so basically what what have they been up to the past year and the next slides go into a little more detail also what an annual look ahead is. Um so what do we have to expect in Chadam Park over the next year and including the section activity center design plans? Um another benefit to looking at these uh smaller plans is we can have conversations as as needed with Chattam Park over time as needs change as community community needs change. that is um to discuss updating elements or updating town standards and specifications.

Will the um section and activity center design plans kind of follow the original 16 sections that village was broken into? Uh we're still having conversations with the applicant about that. Okay. The annual updates annual look ahead. Will that be like filtered? Um I mean will that come directly from CPI? would like be filtered through you um the planning. It would probably be presented by the planning director and like hosted somewhere. Yeah, it' probably be at a town board meeting. Okay. So, okay. Not live. It would be like a report. Okay. I'm sure would be, you know, recorded live and all that, but

Well, I meant like um like online where if someone's not able to get here and stuff or ability to kind of read this and digest it and send questions in. Okay, great. And the next slide goes into that with the before we move along. So with the section activity centers, you're saying would update the Chattam Park elements and update town standards, but would those how I thought I heard you say that there would be discussion about the Chattam Park elements? Yes, sir. Okay. But as far as actually implementing that, is that going to be something that the town will require or something that has to come from a joint agreement?

I will show you what the language is that got adopted in the general provisions element back in 2015. Okay? And then you can we can take it the conversation from there.

But I can show you what what has been approved already for that process. This is goes more question sorry about PDD versus UDIO. It's my understanding the PD is more restrictive has more requirements like um you know water um and um buffer for rivers and lakes and stuff like that. The UDO is town you know the rest of the town requirements developed in I guess 24 or something. So, I mean, we're not suggesting that we're going to um I guess the PD as it stands today for the north side is it all those elements will be there for the south side. We're not going to have to update the UDO just to cover the south.

Okay. And we're just But that's a benefit of doing this is potentially updating for the whole town. Um well the elements for Chattam Park they can be updated. Um the UDO is a living document so we you know we update that as much as we can and our goal is to give y'all quarterly updates for review. Um so some of the UDO updates that we continuously do will affect Chattam Park and some won't. M but as it is right now if there's an element like for signage we look at their element for sign permits we don't look at the UDO to review a sign

unless they have something absent that's not in their element then we go to the UDO permits does that make sense?

Yeah, definitely. Thank you. Um so regarding the look ahead uh we we've discussed what their anticipated um submittals are for the upcoming year, economic development opportunities, um roadway projects, uh climate action planning updates, pro proposed public facilities over the next 12 months, and any potential adjacent parcel resonings that Chattam Park might be um looking at so as you know the PDD is that 7,000 acres um Chattam Park has acquired and developed several other projects adjacent to Chattam Park. So um because it's being developed by Chadam Park, it's also able to be interconnected into Chattam Park. It's just for legal reasons. Um, they're zoned differently, so we don't have to open up that 2015 PD resoning every time. But Chad Park does uh have the adjacent properties meet the elements as needed as well, so it's, you know, more cohesive. Um, and then over the past year, we'd be looking at what was built, including dwelling units, non-residential, affordable housing, any updates to the elements that have been made. Um, different tracking sheets, so could could include tree preservation, um, open space, parks and wrecks.

Yeah. and um greenways, if we have to update tra the transportation model when we're doing like section plan reviews, if that's needed, um what what those updates look like, water sewer model updates and sewer capacity management needed. So these are just uh different bullet points of what can be included but it says that um the planning director can ask for anything in addition to that to be included. So it would you know be uh tailored

this likely be like a January first type of expectation or specific data expectation and everything that's done up to that point will be included. Okay.

Awesome. Yeah. So, um digging into the proposed design plans. Um so, with each design plan submitt staff, and this is a draft, by the way, this is not being proposed tonight. Um we're just updating you on where we are in the review process and getting any initial feedback from y'all on this. So we would look at asking for the tracking sheets. Um so for every preliminary plat that is submitted, Chattam Park provides us a tracking sheet and it shows where in that flat are they going to have either on-site active recreation or open space. Is it going to be offsite? are they be paying a family? So, we're doing it step by step by step right now as town staff and sometimes that can be difficult to keep up with. So, what we're looking at is when you're proposing a specific larger area, we want to know what you're proposing the tracking sheets to look like. So, what are you proposing within this area for your active recreation versus open space and what does that look like? And then that's that makes it easier for staff specifically in this instance um parks and recck staff to uh plan for that section and that way we're not peacemilling it you know preliminary platinary platinary plat.

Well especially like fee and loo I mean is that something that we're to expect before the small area plans approved like dragon sheets to exist? No, the the tracking sheets would be as development occurs. That's what we're doing right now. It's as development occurs. They're keep China park keeps up with the tracking sheet and it's it shows where everything's going. Where's the required active recreation going open space and fe typically they don't need to pay the fee in L or or even be allowed to have a fee. Yeah. Okay. Caution.

Yeah. So, but what we're asking in the south village is to be more proactive and getting what your proposed tracking sheets look like in advance. And of course, they can be updated as plinary plats are submitted. you know, once once something's engineered, um the park size might might have to move some of it off site, but it's easier for staff to plan, you know, let's say five 10 preliminary plats at a time um in advance to getting it more like peacemeal.

Is that what you're thinking? It would be like five to 10 preliminary platclans. Okay, we're thinking right now that um the section sizes can be uh they depending on what the needs are, you know, for Child Park because um that's why Child Park proposes, you know, 20 to 40 years out. We don't they don't know exactly what the market's going to be 10 years from now. So we do want to keep that flexible on what the size of the section is. So yeah, we're working out the specific language for that.

Okay.

Um and then uh activity centers can also be included as their own plan or overlap section plans. Um, we also it's it's confusing for for staff when we're reviewing um what we're looking at like where is a specific standard coming from. So for each section we want to um reference where where are we getting the standard from because there's a lot of different places that it can come from in Chattam Park. Uh also include it what the intent of the section plan is which is to foster early coordination provide get greater clarity where you know as the small area plan is more conceptual and it also helps us stream plat site plan reviews like as I use the tracking sheets for example um when we receive a plumeary plat for you know uh the town engineer might be looking out of street typical and question it and now we're having conversations about that. Um it's difficult to to change after the fact. It's more difficult versus if we have a conversation up front and we get on the same page before the plans are even submitted. Then we know, you know, what's the park land going to be that's in the plans that are going to be submitted. Um, and that makes it a lot easier for park staff as well.

Uh, so right now we're saying that sections can be or I should say 16 sections can be submitted up to four sections at a time. And we also want to say or or part any parts of those sections at a time as well. Um, we'd also like the applicant to start having conversations with town staff at least 6 months prior to submittal of the of the design. Um, depending on the situation, it can be less than that. You know, if it's a smaller section, um, or something we've already started coordinating on a while ago, we could say 3 months or, you know, uh, depending on what's needed.

Uh, we will look at the uh, small area plan, the South Village small area plan for consistency and in comparison, that's what we're required to do. outside of Chattam Park for all of our comprehensive plans. So, you know, like when we bring a plinary plat to y'all and we do it for Chattam Park as well, but um at the end of the plinary plat packet, the staff report, we have is this plat consistent with the land use plan, the comprehensive transportation plan, the bike and ped plan, parks and recck master plan. So, we're going to look at the small area plan the same way. Is it consistent with the small area plan? What that means is it doesn't have to be exactly the same. It can be different. Um there just needs to be a reason why it's different. And so that can be based on a response to change circumstances, emerging community needs or evolving conditions. It says um it said uh what's it may be required to comply with updated town standards like what's the mechanism of that and like is that optional compliance or

what that means is when you receive the small area plan um the South Village plan there might be statements in there that are applicable today but let's say five years from now um if an element changes or town spec changes then they would need to come into compliance withever whatever that is because the small area plan is not binding. So if they change their own element they'll be required to comply with that.

Well and there's also town specifications. So like street typicals for are an example. You'll see that in the South Village plan, there's several different street typicals. Um, proposed. Yeah. And staff looked, you know, looked at them and there's a couple of things that we're still working out, but overall, you know, they could look great today and but maybe 10 15 years from now, town specs have changed and we would we would um require a different typical that extends. Okay, sounds good. Cross-section. Yeah, I'm not about that.

I know. Yes, th those words may be required really uh concerns me uh and gets back to the essence of a comment I had previously which was about the grandfathering. So why is you know I hear your explanation which to me means that you know if we update our town standards and regulations then at that point going forward they would have to comply. But you've got we can hear it says maybe

well we can approve it as conditional will be required. I mean that's something that recogn [Music]

okay and as I mentioned before town staff would review it forward it to the planning board and then the town board for final decision. Great. Um, in reference to the question about updating the elements, so this is the language that's in the general provisions element. Um, Chattam Park shall meet with the Pittsburgh Board of Commissioners periodically. Um and you know as we're proposing it to be annually anyways to review the additional elements and to discuss possible revisions to improve the elements or the way in which they are applied to to development in chat park. So this is the language that was approved uh with this element. Um so in the past what what we've done as staff is have a working um uh list of questions about existing elements and the plan has been to sit down with Chattam Park uh developers and withers uh to go over these questions and concerns um kind of like in a workshop,

right? and try to get on the same page of, you know, what what standards should be updated in elements um and then bring that to the uh plan board and board commissioners for those um published at all? I mean like what was requested and either denied or negotiated and stuff? We have an ongoing word document a list. I mean it's not on the website or anything. It's just internal for staff. Okay. of it.

So that's what the um that's what we currently do for updating the elements. And uh so I think someone asked like is it required to update the elements as the way it's written now? No, it's not. There's nothing that says elements have to be updated every year or anything like that. And it has to be mutually agreed upon. It has to be mutually agreed upon. And so either party can say no and then they just stay as is. Yes sir. Okay. And I think there's one more slide.

Um Okay. And this is in the master plan speaking to town standards. So the way it's worded right now is that whenever a subdivision like pre or site plan submitted um Chatter Park uh must design it and conform to whatever is applicable in the town's standards. They have to conform to the town standards in effect at that time that proposed development is submitted. So if a plural plat submitted 10 years from now, then they have to meet the standards 10 years from now, not today. I think someone asked about that with the small area plan approval. It doesn't lock them into what's today.

So at this point, no matter what, whatever's come up, whatever's changes, then they have to they have to go back and make changes to to make sure it's meeting what the town says. Correct. So that's where we are right now with the review. Um we're still working out language in the actual plan itself. Um so you know we want to make sure the board we answer all your questions and you feel comfortable with the review and consideration. So, um, please let us know what you, you know, if you need more information between now and the time we submit it.

Um, feel free to, you know, you can email me or call me individually as well. So, Teresa, th this was very helpful. Um, but it's also very overwhelming. There's there's a lot of information and I think all of us want to get this right because it's a huge thing that's going to impact the area for decades, centuries maybe. Is it possible for us to have a once once we see the actual plan that we have it in our hands? I mean, Randy told us we were going to get hard copies and we haven't seen those yet.

That's because it's not ready and and like I said, once we give it to you, you only have 60 days. So, so once we get that, can we have a working session where we can go through it and hash out stuff and talk about how it is in context with the history of what's already happened and and just you can I would recommend having a work session prior to because you do have the first draft and I'm assuming your questions will probably be similar now versus when you get the final draft and as you only have 60 days to review.

You know, if if if we intend on bringing you the and you know, next month, for example, um you only have those those 60 days. So, okay, we could that has to be open in the to the public at we can't just get to come up with a date and get it posted. And that's a great idea, Connie. Be very helpful. If y'all can figure out a date that works for everybody, you can always do a special meeting as well. It doesn't have to be the same regular meeting time. Well, and we're not held to just one. I mean, if we get end of it and then Yeah. No, not everyone soon. Start it sooner. A couple

special meetings just have to be advertised 48 hours in advance. So, yeah, we have a copy of those slides as well in the slides. Um, we I think that'll be on actually we'll have that on the agenda. Okay. from a website. Okay. Yeah. Good. A couple things to think about questions.

So, the first one and and it just so happens that I thought of these and then we had some public comment on these as well. The affordable housing. So, you know, is I understand it's 7.5% of total housing, right? So, I don't know. There's 20,000 times 7 and a half% 1500 affordable housing units. uh concern with the south SAP we talk about providing consistency across all 16 18 sections right so I think as we go through this we need to be cognizant of how do we fit 1500 because I don't think there's any side that's not there is that new uh where there just leveled the land up there isn't that for affordable housing

yes sir there's three affordable housing projects going on right now okay how many units are I think the is6. No. Am I thinking of fire tower? Okay. Pretty good chunk then.

We have a bigger chunk to go and I mean assuming it would all have to be in the south plant. It's pretty hard to fit a thousand units in here or there. I just think we should be cognizant of that as a staff and planning board. Um the other thing that's I think a lot of the community and I felt you saw the first map and there's these activity center blue dots and then there's a discussion and we and I think it was brought up where the idea was would be that these are going to be somewhat like mosaic. There'd be mixed use housing. There would be an anticipation of greenway space and all the things that have been brought up. And I know that's still there, but I think that when you see the new map and it looks like one giant subdivision with just some generic, you know, it it looks and feels like it's instead of being four activity centers, each with mixed use, each with all the benefits spun out in the master plan, it looks and feels like it's just one one giant subdivision. So I think one of the challenges as a board, maybe not as a staff but as a board is to understand how that is going to really come to fruition. And Bob tonight I think it's a very valid point. Um if each of those activity centers are to continue to be somewhat like Mosaic or I'll say better with more mixed use. Um I think it's a desire for a lot of people to see that because of the environmental benefits of use and of course the community building and all the things that go along with that. Right.

So going back to what was approved in 2015 they park has a minimum amount of square footage they have to have um for different uses. So, as they present that, you will see it, you know, in the design plan activity. Yes. Center design plan, you'll see how it all works together. Um, but there already are parameters that have been approved for what's the minimum amount needed. Good. Yep. Then Teresa, for the affordable housing, uh I think the kind of what you were getting at was with the tracking sheets that would be part of that,

wouldn't it? So if we got say we got 50 way 50% of the way through Chadam Park and we only had 2% of what we needed for we would be able to see that. Yeah. And it sounds like we're already past 2%. But I mean it's as for an example. Yes. So it it it you know I think we need to think about it. We also have tracking sheets for impervious surface amounts.

So Chattam Park the whole 7,000 acres is considered a common plan development. So overall they cannot surpass 70% impervious. But certain developments like Mosaic, you know, certain uh lots within that are going to be more than 70%. So, we have a tracking sheet that keeps up with the average so that we make sure they're staying under that 70%. So, we have lots of tracking sheets. That's a good thing. And keep up with everything.

Yeah. And Chen Park does a great job keeping up for it, keeping up with it as they submit. Thank you guys for everything that you're doing trying to keep all of it straight as well. I know it's a lot. So, we appreciate it. So, there there were lots of good questions out here tonight and I I think as part of our uh planning for this extra meeting, if we could get answers to all of those questions, I think that would be helpful. Yeah, we we were taking notes on the questions and we have the handouts, too. So, um,

is that something you mentioned like if if if we want answers to those questions, we should email them to you and stuff, but is that something you want us to take on or is that something you guys will do? Does that make sense? We just both logistically you just need enough time to put the answers together. Okay. You know, a lot of the questions I can't answer. I'd have to sure refer to different staff. Um, and if you wanted to have a work session where we answer those questions for you, uh, we would just need to find time that, you know, okay, for everybody, but I think we could probably pull something together within a couple weeks or so.

Teresa, I do have a question and maybe unreasonable. Do you have any conceptual idea of when the plan will be presented in final form to board here? Sure. Okay. It's a good answer.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Teresa. Nice job. Thank you. Nobody else has anything. We will let Teresa sit down and move on to our new business, which is nothing. Um, I think that will probably serve as a planning department update. Um, I don't think we had anything here. No, Randy. Um, and as far as board comment, I just thank you so much, Teresa, to for putting that all together. Um, I know I have a much better understanding of what we're looking at now. I hope everyone else feels the same. Very good.

Yeah. And thank you to everyone who came out and spoke. Very greatly appreciate it. Uh, on that I'll take a motion to adjourn. Make a motion to adjourn. Motion by Alfreda. We have a second. Second by Alan Wilson. All in favor say I. I.