Board of Commissioners (boc) - Regular Meeting

Good evening. Call this meeting of the Pittsburgh Board of Commissioners for December 3rd, 2025 to order. Start with a motion to adopt the agenda if there's no changes. So move. Thank you, Mayor Pro [clears throat] 10. Second. Second. Thank. All those in favor say I. I. I. Motion passes. Uh we will start with the budget schedule. He

um so pretty similar to other years. Uh we I'll be sending out the um spreadsheets to department heads uh sort of middle of January. They're they'll have three weeks to send it back to me. Um and then we'll be having meetings with department heads in February to go over their um spreadsheets. And then we'll have the budget retreat with the board April 7th. And then the version there will be an initial version of the budget um and public hearing on May 11th and then um budget adopted at the June 8th meeting.

Good. Any questions? That's good. Little improve improvement programs. That's me. Similar to last year, we're just going to run through [clears throat] kind of ongoing projects we have or projects that we've completed capital plan. Thank Excellent. How's the food? Everything good?

Let me guess. They're going to say faster computers are needed. Page two. Page You have them in front of you, right? Yes.

So, uh, for parks, 150,000 Louiswis Freeman Park, that is in progress. Uh, we got our bids back last week. We have accepted a bid, um, Sanford Contractors for 96,000 for the base bid with a $6,000 ad alternate for benches. Um, so we signed that contract and sent that back to them today. So, we should have precon meeting here next week or the week after and um and then we'll set up a date at the precon meeting for a groundbreaking ceremony. So, we can hopefully get that done in either late December, early January and then they can get started on that project in the spring. Uh for the next one, you have 70,000 was allocated for the Mclahan improvements skate park and baseball lights. That's complete. Uh the baseball lights, that'll be a reoccurring expense every year. Um, it's kind of like a per lease purchase for the lights at that baseball field. I believe that's 20 or $25,000 a year, which you'll see later. 25. Got the WPY purchase that you all approved uh this fiscal year, 1.4 million. Uh we owe just over a million on it. uh renovation is in progress and Katie is currently working to get estimates for some cleaning and paint, window repair, and uh our new IT director, Robert, uh is working on security, doors, cameras, uh and then checking out the existing IT network there to see what what other improvements we need. Uh baseline, uh the Robeson Creek master park, Robinson Creek Park master plan, that's currently in progress. Um, and they're finalizing draft recommendations and finalizing community input. The Town Lake master park town lake park master plan did that twice. That project has gotten a little complicated. Um the consulting firm Pond who is also

doing Robson Creek Park wanted us to pivot a little bit so we can look at different aspects of the park. Uh no rise study, flood study because of the environmental nature of that park. She felt or they felt like some other things needed to be studied prior to us designing a master plan that shows a bunch of pretty pictures of things that we wouldn't be able to do. They also discovered that one of the major problems with the pond right now is the parrot feather algae. And that's why fish uh can't really survive in that pond anymore because it's it's taken over the pond and it's um choking out the fish and other wildlife uh due to oxygen reduction. So they are working with DQ, NC Wildlife, and North Carolina Dam Safety to kind of get some baseline information together on what we need to do to move that park forward. So, what turned out to be a a loss of a foot bridge essentially has now kind of turned into a major major project. Um, we do have 350,000

from the sale of the Moniker Pittsburgh Road property allocated to Town Lake. Um, so we're hoping that either that can be leveraged for more grant money in the future or at least be kind of some seed money to get us going. Um, and if this turns out to be a much larger and longer process, uh, if the board sees fit, we can allocate that money to something else to go ahead and see an, uh, more immediate impact on other parks, uh, if you also choose. So, we're going to try to keep our options open with that money and and that project. Some notes on that. M [clears throat]

I've heard from some neighbors of the park that um there was a study apparently not a study um a project uh a physical project 15 years ago uh NC State University was involved. It involved, I believe, Miss Pamela, maybe you recall this, a draining of the pond or the lake. Uh there was uh changes made to the uh surface at the bottom of the lake. Uh anyway, very significant hydraological impacts and effort. And I'm hoping that there may have been some documentation either before or after that project that would inform proper maintenance ongoing.

Yeah, I I believe that Pond found that grant. Oh, wonderful. And I I believe that's part of their current assessment, trying to figure out what was done, what the aim was for for the fix or for the project, and then they can try to assess what to do forward or moving forward.

Fantastic. you know, that was from North Carolina State. They were one of those people that was working on that with the town of Pittsburgh. Ultimately, I think the goal was to have a better late, but it did not quite work out that way, but it was something with North Carolina State that thing working. That's the general consensus from the public that I've received is that it was supposed to make it better and it it didn't or the lack of maintenance over years led to the current situation that we're in. Um, I think the good news is we we've got a good team working on it and uh we'll get some results hopefully I don't know end of Q1 next year. I hope to have something back for you all to to look at

because all that should be documented in the U I was going to say medical records in [laughter] my mind is still there. All of that should be documented in our yeah in the notes and everything and their gender pack in gender packages and all of that may be hard copy. It might be so hard copy. I don't have a hard copy. No, I'm saying if it were if it were in records, it should be that's the impression that I've gotten. But in general there, I think the goal is to complete the walking path around town lake,

bathrooms, and then some additional amenities. Uh but first, we want to, you know, figure out all the environmental issues that we're looking at first, public works. So, we're about a month behind on this project due to uh we did some value engineering and changed a few things um to make the the project flow a little better um and then also moved some money around to do some other things we thought were more important. That led to a a need of a redesign per inspections with the county which delayed us about a month. Um but we're still on track to get that through first of the year. Um and right now everything's looking good. I think they got drywall going up so [snorts] should button that up here next couple of months. All right. Mlinan crosswalk that was completed about a couple weeks ago. So, we're going to try to look to continue to do a couple of these each year. Identify areas where pedestrian crosswalks uh can improve safety as long as ADA compliance. Um, and just a shout out to Ben and Daniel for getting that thing moving. And we are currently working on a CMAC project application that they'll have done by Friday uh for some extra CMAC money that someone else didn't use that we're going to try to grab. So then we can allocate that to uh Cadam Street and Sanford Road uh to do some public uh pedestrian safety there.

Annual street reservicing. We just wrapped up uh most of our paving for this year and as you can see we continue to focus on the Pittsboro core uh roads that have probably not been paved in the last few generations or last few decades. Uh so we're going to probably continue that focus next year as well. Uh those roads have not been identified. Um but again we'll we'll have roughly 200,000 to go towards uh street resurfacing. What's the approximate mileage that that got us? 200,000

is a great question and I will let you all know what roads Johnston small feral there was another one I think we got four roads out of Better than I expected. Yeah. No street. Yep. Yeah. Much I agree. Yeah.

Uh Town Lake Highway 87 sidewalk that is in progress. We have 60% plans and we're waiting on they are looking to get approval from the feds for the environmental piece. Um the estimate is well over the current money uh for that project. So once we get the final bid number, we'll have to go back to DOT and try to get the remainder of that money. That will likely mean that our 20% match will go up. Uh so that's something that will likely come to you all with a budget amendment uh sometimes with probably within the next six months. But my guess is probably an additional 50 to 100,000 from the town would be necessary to make that project work. All right. Any questions there?

I do. I do about this sidewalk and all of that. Now, in terms of this becoming a truck route, that's supposed to be the idea. Yeah, it already is. Now, are they going to do any expansion the state or anything? Well, the DOT's current thought is that the truck route will move to Chattam Parkway once it's finished. Mhm. And then so the the need to expand that section of road won't be necessary in terms of truck traffic. Okay. And the this side this is an 8 foot sidewalk. So it's not your standard curb and gutter in 5T. It's it's going to be an 8 foot almost like a multi-use path. So it'll give you a little bit more distance away from the road.

Okay. So since she said thinking that Chadam's Parkway may be the you know change it to that how long do you anticipate that change? What the time frame will it should be done in 2029?

I'd imagine they'll put signage up when they're building it. And one other thing that area the current speed limit is what 35 45 and then 35 when you get into closer to in the city limits. So they anticipate leaving it at 45. that area you would have to I believe so

we were if we're looking for a speed reduction or increase likely reduction right we we'd have to just make that request and what which section are you talking you talking about Chattton Park or or 87 this this section town like highway 87

street sidewalks in progress. The survey work is finished. Uh they've been out there last couple of weeks. Uh we expect a 30% design soon and then we'll start, you know, continue moving through design process. We don't really have a graphic for Salsbury, but it goes from essentially Paul's office down to uh Feral with some section of that sidewalk already exists. This is kind of filling in. Um, but this was a design someone did for us just to show what Salsbury could look like one day. So that's really the only visual we had for that sideall project.

On staff level, it is a bit of our goal once streetscape is finished on Hillsboro to then maybe look at some of the side streets and how we can make those more walkable and more enjoyable from a res or from a retail standpoint. our favorite stormwater um project uh Oakwood Drive. This came in way over budget. Um and right now this is pretty much on hold until we can figure out uh alternative funding sources and um just reassessing. That's about all we can it's about all I can say on it. So those that was the bid numbers, right? Mhm.

We budgeted like 200,000 or something. 250. Can you help us understand why there was that big gap? I don't know. Um May you have any thoughts? It was the area of impact crossings impact out there and then there's also inflation cost which we started got there and that's 15 to 30% this year so fast.

Thank you. Yes sir. We also looked at we we've reached out to the the funding agency and asked if there were different alternatives that we could pursue and it you know a stop cap measure.

Yeah. And it it I think the reviews were kind of mixed but either way it it's going to cost whatever we were going to do was going to cost more than what we have and the the specific design approach that we chose gave us the best return um in terms of storm water impacts or lack thereof. And so we didn't want to go and spend half a million to only solve half the problem when you could spend, you know, 750 and solve the whole problem. So it just didn't we just don't really have a good good solution right now. Okay. Pittsburgh Elementary School Road Culbert. Uh so we are in the process of submitting a new grant on the 15th of this month for hazard mitigation. Um, Oakwood Drive is just considered undized. Uh, but this one is considered failing. [clears throat] That being that it's a school route also makes this more um it makes it a better grant opportunity than Oakwood.

So, this is that's why we're pursuing that one first. And then if if and when we can get some more grant money to to to go here, easements are next. And then we've got to check with uh or work with Golden Leaf to update uh that application as well.

And [clears throat] I think we swapped email or text correspondence along this the lines of if we could get a professional engineer to assess the current condition because I understood it was an emergency repair but in in hindsight it has been suggested to me that it was a very very good emergency repair that has held up very well. If we could get a PE to sign off on it and say, "Hey, this should be fine." How does that have we pursued that?

I don't think so. If if you look at Shantel like we didn't have any issues with that cover and it was the storm before where a little bit uh we had a small sinkhole form and then we filled that with a special kind of concrete that can be broken up more easily and that seemed to solve whatever problem was was underlying. But um May can speak more to that than I can um in terms of what the new approach may be. smallest bowl possible and start feeling pieces out of it. It's probably happen all the time. So, the storms just made it one that you could see it versus it's happening right now because you've got separations in the pipe. You've got failing inside the pipe outlet pieces. All that really needs to be fixed. It's not just that one spot structure. It's the entire thing. It was actually pretty lucky that the whole thing didn't stable for now, but that's a temporary measure. It's going to have again. Okay.

So, you fix it continuously like fix. Thank you. [clears throat] And I think it was upsizing as well. Um I think new design is Yeah, I do remember that. Is that a 36 inch right there? Um on Oakwood. Oh, Oakwood. Yeah. Probably a 24 or 18. Oakwood's got several coverts under the road. One of which was blocked up. This one, I don't know. It's much bigger. It's It's probably three or four feet. Yeah.

And I I just have to state this that this is probably the most profound uh uh what what can be done in Pittsburgh question that I got during the campaign. Storm water. It was dramatic and profound. And I'm I'm sure we're going to have a presentation today on that very thing and how we can mitigate this. But uh this is high on my priority list. Salsbury Street, Oak Oakwood, Pittsboro Pittsboro Elementary School Road and uh also Thompson Street that floods Masonic Masonic. So look forward to your presentation.

Okay, climate action plan is done and we're looking at some low hanging fruit and some things that we can accomplish uh rest of this fiscal year and next. So uh more to come on that one. Downtown Streetscape. Uh there's a few dates there. Um, we had a meeting today about just some minor uh aesthetic changes with crosswalks and there's been a few changes already from this current design that should save us uh some money. So, we were just looking about how maybe that money could be moved to something different. U so those conversations will continue over the next two years. All right, RFQ is live. You can go to the next one. RFQ is live for town hall with police as an ad alternate. Uh those are due on the 19th of this month. Uh we put that RFQ out for 11 million after the discussion that we had uh with you all last month. Um so we're looking to see what we can accomplish at that dollar amount from a design standpoint. Bid it, see what the bid comes back in at. And then depending on what we have left over in terms of debt capacity, we then could apply that to uh police department renovation or um add-on. So, we're just going to kind of go through the process on town hall a little slower with with a much lower um dollar amount and then just see what comes out of it.

Um that that might be um an item that we could dwell on for just a moment longer. Have commissioners elect heard the conversations and the compelling reason why we need to move into a new town hall? Why would we build a new town hall? Yeah, [clears throat] thank you. They were briefed on it during their election actually. And then right after [laughter]

All right. Any uh any questions about those? like we made good progress uh the past 12 months. Um you know, some of these projects are kind of still lingering, so we just need to get them knocked out and move on to the next ones. But again, still uh very proud of what we have accomplished since this same topic or discussion last year. Thank you. Thank you. Do have a question. Yes, ma'am. In Louiswis Freeman Park, the amount was $150,000. So that is going to complete everything that needs to be done there. Or do you have additional funding source?

Yeah, that completes it. It's Yeah, the current um was 102,000 and that's for Chapel Hill Grit. So, we've we've asked for an ad alternate for concrete. Uh because Chapel Hill Grit in that location with the storm water that flows through there on some storms, that's just going to be a major maintenance issue. Um and we already got a price to to go from Chapel Hill Grit to concrete and it's well within the budget. Wellin the budget. So, we're also now looking at some lighting options and some different uh concrete staining and stamping options. Being that it's a small park, we want it to be as impactful as possible. So, now that we we know we have a little bit of funding um windfall there, we can try to make it a little better than what the original design was.

Okay. And I I Yeah, let's let's ask about timeline on that. That's timeline on Lewis Freeman. It's going to be quick because it's a pretty small project. So, uh we are looking to do precon pre-construction meeting next week or the week after. try to get that done before Christmas and then set a date for a groundbreaking. I believe the um the mayor's goal was groundbreaking in January and then they can start really getting after it um and hopefully get it done before the end of the fiscal year. That's that's my goal and then have a nice uh ribbon cutting for the opening in the spring when it's nice weather.

One other question. Sure. about the the raffle building. So, is that funding complete? Have you all obtained the funding for that? You said 1.4 million. Yeah, we got a loan. You know, our loan was for 1.05. Um and then the other funding was some of the money from the sale of the Pittsburgh Monikure um land back to Yeah. And then uh and we've retained some of some funds for doing some upfit. Okay, good, good, good. I think that's all for right now.

Have a few more notes, but that's okay. This I mean this might be your last budget schedule meeting. So, shoot. Yes, [laughter] don't hold back. You did answer that one about the truck route. That was one of the ones that I was concerned about, too. And of course, I'm concerned with this with the storm water on Oakwood. That's definitely big concern. And let me go back to the Roberson Creek Park master plan if we could for a minute. that where it indicates new roads to be built by developer.

Yes, ma'am. Now, is that the street that's there at the credit union that they're going to improve or what is that? They're going to build a new road. A new road. That So, if you if you look right there just above the the E and developer, that is the existing industrial drive. moving that road over to the east and it'll pretty much be a straight line. But those those plans have not been finalized yet, right? So they're still I want to say they've done they're in second or third submittal uh with development services.

So this particular area here I know there's the plant of course and then there's the fairground and then there's the apartment complex that's close to the laurels. Is that affected by any of this? The plant certainly is. I don't think the Laurels is. I think so. I think so. What about the apartment past? No. Is that called Office Park Drive? Industrial Park Drive. It's like Pittsboro business park drive or something. Pittsburgh business park drive.

Okay. So, the fairground and none of that is is affected by Okay. Not that I'm aware of.

Miss family, since you raised the question of those roads down there, I I'll touch on that very briefly. When I saw the drawings uh associated with the park concept, I was surprised that there's a new east west road proposed just mere feet parallel to um Lorax Lane. Uh, and so I thought that it was really odd that that developer was proposing to build a completely redundant road just right there parallel to Lorax Lane. Um, and for reasons of reducing impervious surfaces and economizing. I mean, it's their money, but I wondered if conversations might be had with the owners of Lorax Lane. Yeah, we did the

I think it was because Lorax Lane is on private property, right, that they don't own. Yeah. I think it was simpler for them to just build their own road. Plus, that road in the CTP, I want to say was supposed to be 100 foot wide. And so, I don't think there was a way for them to to get that done without putting that road somewhere else. So, I think it's the goal is for that to be utilized almost as a service drive. Mhm. and it will become part of the town parking lot that will serve the park. Okay. So, in the that's one of the plan changes that we talked with pond about is maybe you leave Lorax Lane where it is, tie the parking lot to it to the south and so then Lorax Lane is kind of a pullthrough road, access road to the park and still to the plant.

And that helps achieve the goal of the park parking lot also being overflow parking for the plant when there there's a large event. So, we think we got that worked out. Thank you. Yeah. Um, do you have No, I don't. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

Uh, I do. Um, couple of things. Um, I don't know if this works into just something that's an administrative project or if we need to address it as a capital project or a small budget item, but um, uh, Tiana Thurber and Candace Huner have made it abundantly clear to me that the audio in this facility is not acceptable. um that is that when people are sitting in the audience, they simply can't hear us at this table. Uh and I know valiant efforts have been made by the city, excuse me, the county administration of the conf the conference center with regard to this new equipment. Um but it's still just not not working. Um, and I don't want to steal y'all's thunder, but speak on that.

Sure, please. So, I've frequently come with a friend of mine who is hearing impaired, and I've even heard other people say that they've turned up their hearing aids and still cannot hear. And I know she has difficulty hearing. And if you remember the last big meeting, several people kept saying they couldn't hear. And I know you had to keep turning up the volume and everything. And Kyle, ironically, you don't have a mic on you right now. Um, there's I think there's Yeah, there we go.

So, I was saying that I' I've heard numerous people who do wear hearing aids, who are hearing impaired, say they can't even turn their hearing aids up loud enough to hear what's being said and only catch part of the words. And I know even for myself sitting in the front row, it's often very difficult to hear. So again, I don't know if that needs to be a budget matter or just something that we can work out uh with the county. I do understand, and maybe I'm wrong on this, that we're being charged commercial rates as a local government. Uh and I've been questioning that for years now. Why is it that we're not charged nonprofit rates? If we could be if rates could be adjusted to us paying nonprofit rates, then I'd say let's make the capital investment ourselves so that we own the equipment that provides adequate uh sound projection to the audience or something along those lines. But if we're going to continue to be charged commercial rates, I think we need to ask for a higher level of quality of AV.

Yeah, I think we talked about it too. Yeah. Thank you. [snorts] Um, and also on sound just so we we're in the previous year's projects. Oh, and then we'll go to Okay. new project later. Priorities are later. I wondered because I saw it as CIP and yeah. Okay, I'll hold those ideas now. Um projects for 2027.

All right. You have a memo um looking at uh recommended projects for 27. Lewis Freeman Park is is on there because we didn't know if that was going to bleed into next year. Uh Quantis Park upgrades. Uh you got new fence coming, but new amenities. Uh that 50,000 was part of the money that that uh was a result of the sale of Monikare Pittsburgh Road property. Um we don't know yet what that looks like. Uh I think Katie next year wants to get some some public engagement on Kuanas Park to figure out what uh what amenities are are requested for that park. So got 50,000 for that. 100,000 for night farm park upgrades. When we had the initial public input opportunity for uh the part grant for night farm um we heard shade fencing and seating around the splash pad. Um so that's what that money is is going for. That was also uh money from the sale of the moniker Pittsburgh road land. You got number four mahan park improvements lay down yard and the raffy renovation. Uh 225 total 100,000 of that is from the sale of the mir pits road land. That's for the raffy upfit. We will likely need more than that, I'd imagine, but we'll get back with you all on what that number end up ends up looking like. And then they're going to need some storage uh space at the layown yard, which is uh I guess that's to the northeast of the current baseball field of Clinton. And so that was part of the land that was given to the town from the county. Uh so that's what the other 125 is. Can you describe what a lay down field is?

It's basically where they can store, you know, rock, gravel, mulch, dirt, uh, and then a place to store trailers, tractors, just their general equipment they use. Right now, they're at public works. So, once they once the park admin folks move to Rafy, uh, the operations folks are going to move into a wing of the Rafy building, and then they'll they just need a place to to store their equipment and materials. I don't think that's a long-term solution. That's probably 5 to 10 years. And then we're going to want to likely the baseball park in the south village is where we're going to want to aim to put some more robust park maintenance facilities.

Okay. Mary Hayes Barber Holmes Park Improvements 75,000 that that also came from Moniker Pittsburgh road land sale. Looking for swing sets, repairs to existing equipment that's out there. um and just equipment replacement in general. And some of that is pending um a subdivision application at Powell Place. So, we got to we want to see what's going to happen with that before we we dive too deep into Mary Hayes and and possibly is that another master plan opportunity there or is that just some citizen engagement in that community to figure out what's what's needed and what's wanted? I'm sorry, Mr. Franklin, before you go on, could you tell me about the night night arm park park upgrades again, please? You said fencing and what else?

Seating. Fencing, seating, and shade. Yeah, [snorts] shade. Shade is the number one thing that we've heard over there is there's like two shade structures. There's 40 kids on the splash pad. The parents are all huddled under two shade structures. I've been over there with my grandchildren. Yes. There's also some runoff concerns. And I learned a new term about children uh last week called runners apparently. And so some parents don't want to take their kids there because they're runners. And it's just very close to that traffic circle. And when they see a construction vehicle go by, they run. They take off. Yep. So we want to fence that in and make that that park a lot safer.

Yeah. Back to the power place. I'd love to help spearhead that negotiation with the the residents. Sure.

Y the Oh, and then on uh Night Farm, currently that is our most visited park, too. So, that's that's another reason why we wanted to to put some funds toward that. All right. East Street. Yeah, East Street. There's 50,000. I don't actually see that project happening next year, but that is a hold for the forge in part of their conditions. They're required to to provide $50,000 um for the East Street beautifification project that we kind of designed a couple years ago. It's like a rough design from a landscape architect. Um so that's what that's for. In case that money comes in, uh we've already got a line item that we can we can move on it. Uh Rockidge Bathrooms. This is another Monikure Pittsburgh Road um project from that funding 125 for dry bathrooms. If you've been to a national park and you've seen a concrete structure that's a bathroom with a hole under it, that's what we're looking at for Rock Ridge. Um getting water and sewer out there would be extremely expensive. Um so this is kind of the the most economical solution there. [clears throat]

Question on that,

sir. I've been to some pretty primitive dry restroom facilities and um I'm hoping that we might do an active composting facility. Um, and I banged on the Google a little bit and it looked to me like um a two seat separate men's and women's or two private stalls, completely separate doors. Um, could be done with composting equipment. um around the same price, perhaps as low as 70,000, perhaps as high as 150,000. Um and I'd be happy to share my notes with you.

Yeah, please do. The quotes that I got thus far was 85 80 83 and like 92 and I want to say one of those was a composting option. Okay. Yeah. But please share what you what your research so I can see exactly what what you're talking about. Uh playground improvements. We kind of always put 50,000 in for improvements. Uh just in case we have something break or something that needs repair, we've got some extra money to pull from. Um and there is an edit on that. It said to playgrounds at Mary Hayes. It's actually just playgrounds. It's for townwide. My apologies there. Wait, I'm sorry. It's just what number nine

description. Yeah, it says at Mary Hayes. It's just that 50 is just for town lot. Okay. just so we have some money to pull from in case we have slide break or one of these things. Okay.

The works building. So the the building that the storage building that you all approved last year is already full. Um so we are now looking for a to mirror that same building just across uh their lot. Um this one would be a little more robust doors, concrete floors. um as we look to continue to to buy more equipment for them for efficiencies and uh seems like the right time. If we can't fully fund that this year, we were looking for a partial funding and then aim for it in 28 and that way we can get that done. Any questions there? Okay. Annual street reservicing pretty standard. Uh the number 12, you got the widening project for downtown streetscape. We need to sign the agreement for that. When's that due?

Street already where it signed. So, we're gonna have to budget that um probably for our audit since we signed a contract for for that amount of money. Um so, that will be partially fund balance, partially grant. So, the money will still be in the bank. We'll just have to move it from unrestricted to restricted. Right. Mhm. So current we have the way we signed the contract was by having a budget amendment for the expected um grant through the um main street

for no through the legislature that has not passed you know that has not been funded yet. So if that does not get funded then we have to do a sort of replacement budget amendment with fund balance. So and that was 850,000. Does that make sense? You know, I have a question. Yes, ma'am. So, come on. How far? So, can you tell me the 15501 widening project starts where and ends where? Starts at Oh, old Rock Creek, right?

Starts at let's say McDonald's. Yeah. And then Yeah. all the way down to just shy of the traffic circle. So we need to rename that Hillsboro Street wide project. We move [clears throat] 1551, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Loads to the traffic circle to the mill and then the streetscape takes over. Okay. from there, but it's also inclusive of Lana Street and the uh Cafe DM and and Park Drive and

most I was concerned about what I suggested about 20 years ago to widen the widening 15501 for streets. So, it's been just that long. Yep. And yeah, that's a long time. appreciate your abence for it. In the world of DOT, that's actually a short time. Okay. Thank you.

Yes, ma'am. All right. Town Lake Sidewalk. Y'all heard about that one. Salsbury Street sidewalk. Same. Uh put a little money in there for wayfinding signage. Uh we still need to do the wayfinding design. Um, but if that doesn't get done this fiscal year, then that um that money for funding the wayfinding will not be in there. Um, so got to get that done first. Then you have some just uh ADA improvements, pedestrian crosswalk, 15,000. We need that number to be a little more um project idea we came up with this afternoon actually in discussing some of this possibly a crosswalk at rectory or small or doing a sidewalk connection in front of Walgreens and then a crosswalk u that would be at feral because we see people all the time that walk through the grass at Walgreens to try to get to the sidewalk in front of uh the hardware store. So, we're thinking we just maybe instead of a crosswalk project, we do the sidewalk and that at the same time and that should be able to be done pretty cost- effectively. You got your raise project uh January and February action item for you all I believe and RFQ is going to go out this month uh for design services and this that RFQ is for um broadscope design services for development services and then within those um RFQS or or proposals that we receive we're going to select someone from that group uh to handle the race grant and hopefully get started on that pretty quickly. And just as a reminder, most of the most of what Raise is looking at were the connectivity projects that were in the bike and ped plan that was done many years ago. So hopefully get get most of those project designed. Then we go out for the build grant shortly thereafter to try to fund the construction of it.

Is that somewhat right? Oh, it is. Okay, gotcha. Uh you got the covert project. We talked about that. Town hall design RFQ is out. Responses are due back uh in a couple weeks. We've received a few questions um a decent amount of inquiries. Um and there's more to come on that. Right now nothing's in the budget. We we're just mentioning some things that we think should be. Okay. Let's think it'll be it'll be a loan.

We think we have Yeah, the town hall will be alone. Now, the design we probably can pull that from from fund balance and that'll be cash, but then we can pay ourselves back with the loan funds. Man, yeah. Don't be too worried about the bottom number, the 7 million. How there's a lot of some of that's already is already allocated and is in our bank. All right. Vehicles. Is that the same? It's the next. Oh, it's not. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Any questions on the recommended projects?

Vehicles and equipment. pretty simple. Um, public works looking for um, one that number two, the parks and wreck vehicle. Uh, Katie signaled to me yesterday that she doesn't actually think she needs a vehicle. So, we may keep that in there and and have one for development services. Right now, they're driving that um, old Nissan Pathfinder. So, we we may need to replace that with something that's a little more engineering focused. [clears throat] We have the Slate truck, which is an electric vehicle. We've we've got that reserved. I believe they're supposed to be out on the market end of 26, but we just put that in there. That's likely a drive around town vehicle to to pick things up or do code enforcement or what have you. Um hook lift truck from public works. This is aiming at some efficiencies that Daniel thinks he can achieve uh with this type of equipment. Um essentially a flatbed with a hook on it and then we can pick up dump trailers. We can pick up we can add an attachment for another leaf vac. um all types of attachments that you can get for a hook lift. So, he's he's been pushing for that for this is now the second year. Uh one patrol vehicle and then police are interested in looking at some event barricades. These are kind of like an L and you sit them down, they got wheels on them, but if a big truck hits them, it'll stop it in its tracks. And so, we think this probably from a safety standpoint is better than just parking patrol vehicles at the end of roads whenever we have events. Um, I believe that's 10 of them with a trailer or five with a trailer. 10. 10 with a trailer. So,

how do we pick them up and put them in place? They're on wheels. They're pretty light, are they? If you've been to big sport events, a lot of those that's I've watched some videos on they're I've seen them over in carry too and I think in order to move them do you insert a lever and and that helps get the weight over the wheels kind of thing. Yeah. They've got cages that um like you see on catch land.

Well, that's good to know because I was thinking that we were just talking about some wooden barricades. $100,000 is a lot of money for Thank you for that clarification. What's happening? Or can what's the new use for a Col? Uh, police department. Okay. Yeah. It's it's it's pursuit rated, so it just makes sense to to go to police. And you're saying that Parks [clears throat] and Wreck has opted out of that vehicle that's on this memo?

Yes. She didn't think she needed it. Okay. Um well uh help me understand why would be we be looking at a hybrid for public works. They are still our primary storm response team and so I'm I'm still a little uncertain about electric vehicles and storm response. You know we have the lightning in parks now. The struggle with that is I think we're having to charge it with a 110 plug which takes a I don't know a couple days. Um but they they are managing with it but they don't have take on cars. Um they're not on call. So that's public works does.

Public works does. Yes, we did that about a year and a half ago. Um because those if something happens those that those folks are still required to come in and work u for emergencies. So that's I think we get a couple in the fleet. we see how they do and then we go from there. That's that's kind of my approach now. So, um the slate truck is uh is a new product. It's not even uh been released yet. Um, and I will make very clear that I am not speaking in the capacity of my employment at NC State University when I express the personal opinion that uh we might not want to buy the first year's uh product uh for an electric vehicle company that's brand new. Um, but the F-150 electric, uh, the Lightning is very well proven and every large municipality in our region is buying them as a matter of course. now. Um, Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, and I think it's past time that we uh embrace that and start buying more of those uh wellproven um work trucks because they're a very robust platform. uh public works could do a whole lot more with an onboard generator effectively uh powering job sites, powering lighting, powering tools. Um so

just really want to strongly encourage greater consideration of that. Um, and I can once again I can hook you up with the city of Durham who have figured out at home charging or take-home vehicles. Um, they've ironed out all the wrinkles and they have a policy and insurance was on board and finance office was on board and um, HR and everybody. So, um, yeah, these issues are being addressed by others and I think we can learn from them.

I think you're right. I the the concern that I have is if you if you have an individual that lives in an apartment, they're probably okay because there's there's charge infrastructure at most new apartments that are going in. If they, let's say, live with their parents, that could be an issue. Um, or if they own their home, they may not want to have this infrastructure installed on their home. [clears throat] Um, and so when we we kind of looked at some of our existing staff and how that might work in public works, we we didn't have a smooth transition for that. As a raise their hand

as a small organization, it's more difficult, too. I mean, Durham's huge, right? So, they a lot of different ways they can skin that cat, but for here, it's a little bit more difficult just because the pick is not as large. Um, but I think so far parks has not had any issues with with their lightning except we're still working on getting, you know, a level two charger at Rafi. So, it's, you know, we're not having to plug it into the wall. Um, and public works is making infrastructure upgrades at their facilities to get electrical to all their buildings um to plan for this in the future.

Wonderful. Glad to hear that. I think with this Lightning too, it gives us an opportunity to start towing some trailers with some lawnmowers in it and seeing how the battery holds up. I Everybody that's told me is is that it cuts the battery life in half. So, which is fine if you've got chargers or um uh it DC fast charger. So, if if we're going to lean more towards the electric vehicles, we're just going to have to spend the 150 it is to to install a fast charger at either public works or some other facility that we own. And obviously with Town Hall charging stations there, then most vehicles that are that are fleet can be electric because we'll have a facility that we own where we can install chargers. I think the potential or proposed cost of the slate is compelling too that we could get two of those for one F-150

for utility like use work. But

any other questions? Will the patrol vehicle be a hybrid? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're pretty much purchasing all hybrids right now. Um, we just don't have a choice. Okay, thank you.

Right. Uh, storm water presentation. here. So, I'm going to take 55 minutes to do this. This has already been a portion of this. It's pretty much the same. Um, please don't fall asleep. Um, okay. So the SD development services includes the planning and the downtown but it also includes all the engineering which includes storm water environmental flood plane and you're talking about water quality flood plane management climate change and then then the community and the permitting pieces that go with it. So that is what this will go through and moving towards an actual storm water management program that includes all those items. Um, for me specifically in my role, and that includes the flood plan administrator, the storm water administrator, and making sure that we coordinate with all of the different divisions, state, federal items, and that we're not overstepping or that they're in agreement with comes to a permit style, not just what we currently have because we do not have a permit. And that is one of the next pieces. If we look at that from the perspective of developer and the town, we're talking about um the change from the land use to the resoning. Those are the pretty much the same things, different terminology from what they're using. Talking about your conceptual planning is your site plan. Your detailed is your CDs and your permitting piece, which means there all the state rags and federal regs get met at that point. And then you're looking

I'm on the next sorry then the construction you're talking about your your building permit your CO getting through being able to actually do what you want to do. Um the acceptance of the project and that is the as built for us. So that means they now it's active they don't have control or if they do they're entering into that maintenance phase next. So that's the annual certification which is part of the new program piece that we will need to do. um from the the next pieces is you're talking about quality and the quantity, not just one or the other. There are different conditions for each. You talk about which wershed portion were for. So, we're we're dealing with the the supply piece. And then knowing if they're how much impervious they have, what percentage of the property handles that. The nutrient requirements that talks about um total maximum um demand and load of some portions that can be total suspended solids, nitrogen, phosphorus, but that there are other items on the 303D which gets updated often. So, we would put that in the list of if it can be treated by a storm water control measure, make sure you go ahead and note that in that as part of that because we we we literally hit that red line when it says we're impacted. We're impacted all the way down. And one of the not just talking about just the the runoff on the roads, we're talking about flood planes, the entire drainage area, and then understanding what part is groundwater recharge and what is runoff.

So, could I ask you to pause for just a second? Mhm. Yeah. I'm I'm understanding that much of this work is in preparation for us uh reaching a point of 10,000 population of 10,000. Yes. But a milestone there that municipalities that are 10,000 or or higher in population have to do certain things. Is that right?

That's part of it. Yes. But there's another one. When we're looking at this, I'm looking at a phase 2 MS4 which is not the phase one which is 100,000. The M MS4 phase 2 is actually 50,000 in kind of like the the urban area and then your individual population is a thousand. We already have our population worker. Now we're looking at the growth to get into that 50 range if we get out to that point. We need to prepare now, not later. So Kerry already has theirs. They're the phase two. The difference would be like Raleigh that is a phase one. So different populations of that

and so those those difference in phases allow a municipality different levels of rigor of enforcement too. Is that right? That is correct. So you have a a SWIP plan which is kind of like your storm water management plan. That that's pretty much what it is and to what degree that you have to make sure things are completed and that goes with the regulations especially with the Jordan rules. So in order to protect the Jordan Lake, um I think that I've understood that there are certain things that we can ask of developers and certain certain things that we cannot yet ask because of this phasing. We're not yet achieved that additional phase. Is that right?

That is partially correct. There are some instances you can request that NCDQ do a review given your area. We are in the hall section. There are three sections of the Jordan. we're in that portion and we can ask that we have higher items but it has to be in our permit and it has to be approved and something that they consider appropriate. So it would be a a joint conversation as part of the permit piece but we can't like just decide on our own. Okay.

Thank you. Um and this next slide. Um when we're looking at this, we're looking um about the compliance with the regulations, specifically NCDQ. Um most of that's passed down with the EPA items and FEMA items both. And specifically, we're talking about your surface water conditions, the types of streams, your wetlands. You're talking about your if a map flood plane versus an unmapped flood plane, they all have a flood plane. It's just whether or not someone's put it on a map yet.

I'll tell you, I've got an aunt who lives in Asheville. And I got an interesting phone call two weeks after they finally found out where she was. So, she was in a non-map flood plane. So, it it does exist on all of them. So, some of them have non- encroachment areas that are installed along streams that do not have map buffers um mapped flood planes um along buffers or one of those items. So that we would ask one of the items is to look at the UDO and ask them to study it and tell me what the impact is. Where is the range where we have a zone of you know the safety concerns which is basically what that is. And there's two parts to the flood plane. We're talking about a flood way versus flood plane. Floodway you squeeze the flood plane that foot [clears throat] you push it up to a foot in height. sort of your highest velocity zone of that flood line. That's the floodway. That's the one place you don't want anything happening. It is also the one place that you could have the most issues and failures. That's why the coverts when they go through that section, it is usually that pass because they line that up with that center line of the stream and that's the flowway section through that that's you squeeze it together over it. And then we look at impervious service limits. So Chadam County just had their LAR redone recently. It's brand new. So [clears throat] that is one item we can look at the impervious limits and I'll talk about like one of the next steps is to actually get a hold of that information, process it, get it to our system or the access to a storm water fund instead. Um, and then storm water controls talk about if there's regional items or if we're just what we're expecting from developers and what [clears throat] we're having to do because there will be a component that requires from areas that didn't have one. We're eventually going to have to fix that. So, we'll be looking at a historical context as well. Um and then the other part is

streamwaters identification is making sure that part of the development plans we require if if it's not on a certain map that they actually go back and tell us if it's a a blue line if it's perennial, intermittent or femoral. Femeral is the ones you can it's they consider it a ditch because it only activates during the storm. Your intermittent and your perennial are the ones that generally have water throughout the entire year for intermittent and it'll sometimes disappear underneath the ground at certain time periods. Perennial you see water all the time. There's other qualifiers as well but that's where you see the heaviest volume of water. And then of course there's rivers which is outside of that which is like hall and rocky. So, this is why we include this in here is we want to make sure that we know which one it is because don't have buffers, some do not, especially if they're on the maps and we want to make sure we have all the maps on there correctly. USGS, USDA, and if we're looking at national wet inventory, that's included as well because we don't want to have impact store wells. was a a recent um [clears throat] a decision I understood um that had had to do with uh I think regulation maybe of of water quality uh and what I understood is that states were now prohibited from doing certain regulations unless you could actually paddle a canoe into it. Um so wetlands were

[clears throat] reconstruction changes. Yes. Yes. Does that impact our ability to regulate storm water?

No. It just has um items on what is considered a wetland and what is not and what if it's protected or not. It may be a wetland, but is it identified as as it's attached to a stream versus unattached and how that is dealt with as part of that system. It is still if it is a wetland and if it's on the national app, it is a wetland. If it is on one of our maps as a wetland, they have to go out there and check and see what the actual limitations limits of that wetland are and see if it falls within one of those ranges. They would have to spit a report as well. Um, next one. And this is a little bit more on the Jordan Lake history. um upper cape fear multi-use empowerment was reservoir that was created and it was commissioned for flood control down um downstream water quality fish wildlife conservation recreation and water supply was 1983 and since it was actually put in place it has had nutrient issues from the beginning so it has been the entire time so it it's alle is the biggest piece and the best way to consider the algo is it pretty It's kind of like pulling soap in your water. Now you can't drink it. It's for for everything. It's not really soap, but some of it's okay and then some of it will actually kill you depending on which version of the algae it gets in. All right. Um nutrient sources. We talk about discharges and rain off the runoff from the rainfall. Um excessive inputs that talk you may for a minute. Yes. I just want to clarify we're [clears throat] not getting our water from Jordan Lake right now. Correct.

We're getting it through the process, not through Jordan River. Right. Right. Which is a section. But the whole idea of killing is is kind of a non-issue here. Well, our section should be fully flowing. If they got stagnant and got stopped up and had issues, they couldn't get to that section. It's potential that would be an issue, but that's not where our intake is. Understand? Okay. is that yes

um [clears throat] the rules are based on the treatment for Jordan as majority with that piece being placed there. Um things that you would note is taste and odor. Um the lack of oxygen, any aquatic life thefts, uh the toxicities, um and then if it smells, this is also TM the other TMDLs can like copper and some other iron and pieces. You'll see different diff discoloration and smells come off of that. That's one item. And then if you ever had a cross connect where uh sewer got into the storm water, that would be the other option. Sorry. Um, next one to the next slide, sorry. So, these are examples of some of where that flow comes from. So, everything from pets and putting fertilizer in your yard to the oil in the street that all gets flushed into the storm water into the stream because we don't it doesn't go through an actual um treatment plant. Some used to in some of the storm water pieces they used to get actual storm water like it they filter everything out. So much garbage would go through certain sections, but that does not have an next one. Um we're looking at um for compliance. So we have chapter 4, which is what all of the environmental items are in is chapter 4. That includes the storm water and the flood plane. The watershed protection overlay is in chapter 2. Um but it is in it as a district piece, not more the what it should be on the environmental side. So we'll have to do an addition to that as well. So those are all items that would get updates. And then the regulatory basin like Jordan, this shows you the entire area of where all the strains down through where it the lower section and that whole section. Um if you the next slide is the actual session law for 2009-216.

I'm not going to go through all the details, but it is here. and if you have items and go through them all. Um, but I figured we'll go through the pieces that was added to it. The next piece is 2009 484. Again, this is a Senate bill talk about new development. It talks about the existing repairing buffers and the state federal pieces that go with it as well. And then the next one for the regulatory basin is this talks about the 13 rule strategy and it talks about monitoring stations and where they're at. Talks about what are the goals needed for each of those sections and it targets the nutrients and then the calculation pieces that go in place as well. And then additional that is the buffer rules with the impervious items. TSS of course total spin solids um that's how cloudy red gray that the coloration those two that's actually the clay and the soil mixture in the water is turned up um and that's part of what can knock down the oxygen content as well as the ability to sell it out in larger storms we don't have that option and then the the waterershed protection the drinking pieces versus where our primary is So treatment requirements. This is one of the things that people get confused about is there's a difference between the one inch and the one year. One year is a volume of over time that falls. The one in is that first inch that falls into the ground. Everything it grabs up off the ground and chunks it off to the side. So that's all the sand, the trash, oil, everything that hits the roads, the sidewalks in the grass and by your yard, the fertilizers, the salt. When we do the roads, that's all this first one inch and the additional half is because we already see some of the climate items. We've added that. So, it's now an inch and a half. So, we're looking at we already know it's bigger than what it

was. So, we want to capture that. That's what those four bays are for or like this pre-treatment piece in a storm water control. It's capturing that trash. It hits that first, it settles out, goes in the pond, and it's being treated and still continues to settle out here before it gets to that outlet structure. So this is that first layer and then the storm for the one year is the rate over time and it's based on that unit. Same thing for two, five, um, 10, 25, 50 and 100 which you use the years of storm and that's based on like I said a rate over time and that's basically the next one is the water quantity. The other one's quality. So this talks about the storms and in the hundredyear I've had the question asked why don't we just say make them detain the hundredyear that may not always fix the problem so that is why I don't want to say let's just detain the hundredyear have them address the entirety of the situation what's happening with the development and let them decide if the hundred-year detainment is what will solve it or if they need additional items. So asking for a flood study versus straight for the hundredyear storm, you don't know if that's actually going to fix it because some of the timing may be a question about when it outfalls versus when because when you start at the beginning of a property, you have that nice sheet flow and then at some point it starts together and erode create that ditch and then you get the big streams. From when you started up here, it could be 30 minutes from it gets to this point to that point at that stream. When you pipe it, it goes to 5 minutes. You pipe that entire section on average. [clears throat] It's kind of like the roughest minimum time we'll say because it gets there quickly. Different surface. It's not getting into the ground anymore. There's more coming out. You have to go back to the precondition. The difference between the 5 minutes and that 30 minutes is 25 minutes of time and it's not time to get into that ground anymore. You also have different

services that have now occurred. So that is as part of this piece that say we don't just go detain 100 year. want to make sure we include it. Um, and then we check for compliance. We look at who when they put the plans together where that storm water control is making sure that everything is caught that is in the proposed in the units primary secondary devices if it's sized correctly and if it's located where they have enough room to actually maintain it. You can put a hole in the ground but if you can't get to the side of it to make sure it stays clean something's going to pile up in it and then you have to go figure out how to get to it. So making that 75% of it you can get to it from around it to reach. And if I can't reach over here because there's a wall, I'm not cleaning out this section. I can have to make sure I can get around to this side and then grab it, pick it up and get it out of the way. So that's one of the items for this is we make sure that it covers not just the design but the maintenance phase and they can maintain it because the worst thing that we have to deal with is going to be the maintenance. That's where it's going to fail. And that is where this piece comes in during the CD review is knowing for example, can they get into the the outlet structure? Can they get to the outlet structure? Do they have a wall or is it they have an area where you can go around it? And there's a portion that we start the NCD storm water manual. And then we have addendums to items that we know are problems. Access being one. Similarities are with Durham. If you see they use the exact same thing, use dendum. Can you get to the SEM? I think you have other practical is not just putting in before but maintaining it. And those are one of the examples as well as some of the ones that Rob has as well.

You get to the one in this picture or is this somewhere else? Sorry that was one I was talking about the the structure. Sorry. Go back to the that is what I'm talking about by the the standards EQ. Sorry. One more. Go back to when you were just the pitcher. So that so that's the outlet structure right there with the grate and then the plantings all around it. So that they had to be able to maintain all the plantings and the outlet structure and get to it as well as the pond. That was the portion I was talking about for that one.

And uh for some projects they're responsible for maintaining it. For others it has been left undefined. then presumably it's the town that's responsible. Is that right?

It's not supposed to be. So there should be some kind of an acceptance as built or another piece in play. If they're completely done with the the subdivision and the current standard, [clears throat] they should be making sure everything's done and then they maintain it on the yearly basis and give us a report. That's what should be done. Um, some of them are still in sediment format from erosion control and have not made it to the final, which is what we have a lot of what's going on because the county requires that all construction upstream of that stormwater control measure be completely done before you can convert it from a setup basin into an actual storm water control measure. And that is one of the questions is we have some that have one or two lots in phase one that have not been completed. so they can't convert it and then we don't want them to walk away. So now we have the question of what do can we do to make sure that doesn't happen and that's part of [clears throat] what we need to deal with. We're looking at some bonding options.

That way if they walk away, we can then go in and make the conversion ourselves and then yes that that's the permit piece and then maintaining them on our side. We don't want to have to but we expect that part of their HOA or their um it's not a solid HOA that's the version where it's a commercial they don't follow that. That's the other version

property owners association. Next one for um this talks about use of flood studies knowing that we need to change some UDO items to actually have it so we know that our maps are really old. We're talking 2007209 and we're already 20 2015 others are being updated. We need to do the same. One of the requirements can be all right go ahead and when you submit your update we'll forward that get that updated at that point. the code requirements. There are building code items for flood plane. We have our standard for the two foot freeboard. We want to make sure we update it to keep going. Make sure the toe of the storm water control measure is not in the 25 year. There not a lot of difference between the 25 and 100year in certain spots and others there [clears throat] are. So we have to make sure that it meets the standard. Um and we'll have to look at specific areas on that. And then the other part for the board is

is it going to make the flooding worse or reduce it, but where's it going? We we have to know that. We can't just say, "Oh, it's it's less now. Where did it go? Did it go to someone else?" We can't allow it to go downstream and then impact someone else. That's the looking at the covert, doing that analysis. We're not just flushing it through. We're making sure that we've looked at both pieces. And then the other piece on top of that for the flood plane is not making a new flow plane that didn't exist before by putting in a covert that's too small. They said, "Okay, well it's not FEMA. It's in the stream. Still make sure you're passing it through." So again, you got to get to that point. You're going to have a higher sometimes depends on the outlet or the inlet control. So water in your inlet, water out where the water stands. if they put a like a kind of erosion control device in downstream when they put a culvert in to prevent it from coming back up and taking out the bottom of the culvert. Part of the one for um Pittsburgh Elementary is the one that's going through and over on certain sections. It's pulling the sediment from inside the sections on the outside around the pipe. And so the pipe separation, if you just tilt it just enough, it pops the joint and some of that water doesn't get in the joint depending on how it's made or if it is the a metal pipe for example, the ends will actually rode out first because that's where they get the highest friction points with the water coming through. So it's knowing what that looks like.

That's how we lost it in 2018.

Yes. And then you can't slip pipe if it's completely gone and there's erosion up in the structure. So if it was filled enough be up in the structure of the above the pipe, you have to take all that sediment out. So then your road fails so it washes out. Um nothing in the floodway if it's not actually meant to be in the water itself. Like if you were going to have a pond, then yes, I would see having a walk out for fishing or something like that. She wouldn't go and try to put the the house over the edge or somebody putting that crossing piece that just doesn't go there. We do it for the roads. We do it for um portions of like our greenways, but we don't want to be in the position of letting people get that close because then they get the someone has piped a stream under my house under a building. We have a couple of those that point forward. Um the others is it's right up against my house. Streams do not stay stationary. they move and sometimes it is inches, sometimes it is feet. If it's a big storm like we have seen with some of the hurricanes in the recent ones, it's feet because they the water is not used to it. It's just going to take that additional impervious and keep going. All right. Um and that means going from like the twoft freeboard requirement to a 3ft is one of those items as well. Go to the next one. So this is the three primary watershed pieces that we have and Robson goes all the way through that section. Turkey has some of the biggest issues that and there's not a lot of the mapping on Turkey. So I wanted to kind of point that out with this. Um and then Hill has also have a couple of those items as well. So water we're on the wershed four. These are the items and you can pull up a map. do you think is in that impacted? And then if you look to the the next side of that is the waste management

sites and that is different pieces where there's some kind of a waste version of where it can be anything from landfill storage under the ground for gas or different pieces. They're all actually labeled in the system. If there are brown sites, they're on that list. There's a we have a site that we can go through federally and pull. So, we want to make sure we do the updates.

And then, so we're talking about environmental protections. So, we don't have a program. We don't have a fund. We we have to do something or we're not going to be able to get ahead of this with the growth that we have. The with the location, the wershed piece, we need to look at the UDO chapter 4. talk about 4144 permits, the fuse flow, the buffers themselves and zones and then elicit discharge and mitigations. So we have to go back and say all right in the permit compliance what is required for each section and say here it is clearly they don't need to be guessing and we kind of just need it to be going back and do some historical fixes to the problems and get those under control as well. Um the same thing with the flood plane freeboard requirements 2007 maps. They're they're old. Um flood damage prevention ordinance is 2017 October. We got to make some modifications to get it up to it. When we have North Carolina Emergency Management and we have FEMA, it doesn't matter. We have North Carolina Emergency Management actually has different some different pieces than just FEMA. So we look at ours how we manage that piece um for grants and portions of that. This also helps with that knowing where the biggest impacts of critical infrastructure is. Talk about schools, the hospitals. You're talking about um our elderly where they're located where where daycarees are. Don't want any of those items in a flood plan or floodways or any any areas attached to to get that impact. If there's a major coververt, do they have second access? Same thing with sizes and amount of land development that's going on. They have two points. They got stream. They better have two points. One side's not getting out. One side will. And can't do that either. So, we have an old storm water manual and there references to it, but it needs to be updated. We have no permit, which is we why we need a phase 2 MS4. Um, and then we need the buffer protection

ordinance updated and the storm water management ordinance for new and redevelopment to the Jordan updated to match what we're going after for the permit piece and adopt additional storm water specs that are both maintenanceoriented and construction so that we are putting these in so that they're going correctly areas of concern. Um, so we're talking about I don't know if you've ever seen some of the flood bases and where vehicles can or can not sometimes will move across the road or stay on the road. It actually depends on the weight of the vehicle and how much water's on the road. If it's just an inch and you got a couple tires in it, you may lose like there's going to start to move around. You get 6 in under your tires, you lose the friction likely to float away. That is the point that you can't stand that way. We don't want them driving through it. We don't have an education program. We need to get these items to the public so they can understand. Please don't go in the flood waters. You can't see if the road is still there. Don't go through it. It may not be there. And that has been a couple instances that is definitely true. Um 100year storm or greater 100-year storms also are not every hundred years. They are the instance that it could happen with that size in a given year. 5%. So there's a 1% chance of that storm happening every year. [clears throat] Um and the overall appearance of the SEM, we want it to be maintained. Not just for the fact that it works, but also nobody wants to see something that's over ground looks like a bush instead of an actual nice neat and it's actually you see the water flowing across it's going where it's supposed to. But if you have it all the trees push the water is not has nowhere to go. It's now between the surface has gone up because the the [clears throat] leaves and the other portion of break down and fill it up. Same thing with the sediment. Fills it up and clean it out

keeping [clears throat] otherwise you lose the capacity and it doesn't look good. So both items are included. Um improvements to current flooding and surface water conditions. We already have known areas of flooding. We need to reduce some of those as much as possible. Find a solution. the sediment devices conversion to the SEMs is another concern and then relation in those SEMs to the flood plane as well. It's our big problem. And then there are actually not just flood planes that are mapped. There are soils that have flood plane properties that we of our are you in a flood plane? Use them the actual soil conditions because that'll tell you what the soils will actually allow as well. And then never ever put an SEM on an individual property owner because then they have to deal with all the costs and that includes the wall that's if there's a wall attached or any access it should be in an HOA space or it should be if it's in the roads or portion like that they point A to point B without impacting an individual property owners. Yes.

For like you mentioned the 100redyear storm being that we see those more often than 1% per year. Yes. Is there any have you heard anything about them possibly upgrading that that those descriptions? Okay. The state. Yeah. So, how to say this? Rumor has it that it is being studied right now in both approximately four states with North Carolina is one of those with a potential to relook at the actual rates um of for the storms. um that has not officially been released of what if there any findings or where they at in the piece. So I would have to I'm still waiting to hear more on that.

Then the SCM in relation to flood plane um do we currently have distance requirements and are we allowed to require those distances uh per state law? Yes, we have the 100redyear the toe outside 100 year and then the other thing is why if they have a 25y year it could be used as the same portion because they're about the same one two 25 years should be lower but most of them they could just water that we can do that now [clears throat] are we doing it

do that yeah also require be the easement because if we have to go out and construct it we start moving things around we don't want them getting into that section we need to set up bean wise more saturation in the soil weight and equipment even individuals going into a pond kind of get sucked into the mud and the structure when wet. So same thing around the float plan area it's not going to have that stronger sh um and then again we talk about the backbone of the system which is the flood protection standards. So we're looking at public health safety and general welfare. That is the primary piece of this. And when we see there's an issue, we push that first as the primary reason between a flood study versus detainer. Do the flood study. Tell me where it's flooded. Make sure you're outside that area as part of your open space that comes get make sure you're doing what you need to do on that. And then if you have another piece that'll help solve the solution or reduce something, that can be added as well. Checking the clovers, making sure they're at the right size, pass the right storms. If it's a map um flow plane, they have to do the hundredyear pass through. If it is a stream, I think that is one of the items that we we make that same mask is just if it's on there as a blue line, let's look at it, tell us what's going to happen. I don't believe we should have the over topping when you have a twoft freeboard because that is a structure structure which you drive over. So that freeboard requirement is attached to the road as well. should have two foot of freeboard on a road just like you would a regular structure and that's why I've always read it and that's what one of the assumptions we would use as well and then alterations of barriers making sure that water does not run off in the direction did not go before so they can't redirect um an acre of water from

here to another wershed it should go to the same point at all times um and then clarifying flood hazards. These are all the soils, the streams, the wetlands, lakes, streams, all the different pieces, everything that FEMA has mapped. And any backwater condition based on a covert or bridge, a road crossing, those are all flood hazards. It's not just what's mapped and then setting the development construction requirements for the flood hazards. So currently at two, I know Monroe's moved to three foot freeboard. So that is and they're very close to us. So I think that's a another option. We need to have that conversation with North County management and into DEEQ on some of those provisions and the same thing as before don't creating increases or encroachments and that's what the flood studies based on um proposed structures within 100 ft of a flood hazard soil or the FEMA flood hazard is kind of like automatic. Then we go through to is it adjacent to the flood plane or is is there a flood plane on the other side and it got cut off. So the study was cut off. We know that there's another section on the other side that we looked at. You look at 40 acres 40 acres 24% impervious. How much run off are you getting? It depends on also where they put it and how much tension they do as well. But that would be one of the items you would want to look at. How much run they get off? What is it doing to the stream? what flip line does it create? And then um engineer so there's a professional engineer that can do that assessment or professional hydraologist. So we could take both of those pieces. So those are items on that. And then so calculations, the manual and the permit process would actually go with those steps. And then this so the last piece is basically what's next. So this is the

last ones just so you know. Um, you're looking at the UDO changes that's going to start happening now. We've already started rewriting sections including the storm water manual update and storm water changes that follow with those flood plate protection standards. um different program pieces, the rain garden program, like rain program, which is barrels, gardens, um some of the small items that individual property owners could do and helping them find access to that because I know Wilson has done that the rainbow program and it has actually helped them a lot and they have a lot of interest. They had quite a few come up first. So there's you can find partnerships. So that would be one of the item I would want to make sure we had is reason for our actual population say I want a rain barrel instead of having it run off into the yard or go down the road. Um the storm water permit itself again we we're going to start pl start get the program in place as we do that. There are items that we required we're going to need the storm water fund and the study to go through that piece. You're looking at the entire pieces of the program for compliance to how you maintain it every year. And then the waterershed starts start with Turkey, go the hill and then Robison in the order of where we find the biggest points and how they line up. We either make small wershed pieces of like Robison or we do the entire piece of the section. So we but we start with Turkey Creek. So we know that when we have some issues and it's not mapped, we need to find out where we have our biggest problems. That means looking at outfall structures and where they are and maybe um and then infrastructure projects, core replacements. So, Pittsburgh Elementary, Oakwood, and keeping going as we find where there's the biggest items we actually need to do inspections and start picking picking them off on the CIP list that would come [clears throat] from the storm water funded, having that to match where we can for grants, but also making sure that we actually have the base to do the maintenance of all these items that we are in our ride ofways or on us and then

creating the regional devices if we can to fix the existing conditions that we have around the area And then again, stream restoration that we identified in that as well. And repairs can actually be done. I'm certified in stream repairs. We can have our team do that. So, we can actually do as a volunteer, work with the the county for soils and actually go out there and do some of these smaller stuff ourselves and keep a smaller budget for that, but do it on a yearly basis once a year. And then addition to that, the green infrastructure items. There is quite a bit of money for green infrastructure. This is part of that. is finding what those regional devices look like and then range gauge stations installation. We need about at least four that we don't have and that's anywhere from 25 to 50,000 that includes the install of the actual ear and then getting it set up with a library and then having it monitored because we can hand it off and say can you monitor this for us relationship the programs

25,000 each. It can be. It just depends. There's threats for that because can those be paired with an overall like either citizen science or uh climatology monitoring devices? They can as long as they meet the needs and we're going to want them at the crossings whenever possible. Okay? Because then it gives you monitoring of the crossings and when you need to close the roads because it it'll track the elevations of the water. So when I worked for Durham, we had a 19 foot rise at one of those sections of those crossings and it was over top and it was back people's up to the yards. They use that to actually populate the numbers and what portion of the road they needed to close.

Yeah, we do that across NCOT uses it as well. That's it. Questions? Yeah. Where where's the dollar figures? H. So, I see them. An easy one. Storm Runner repairs for the streams and sections. If we put a $5,000 a year budget, we could get the certifications and the materials to do it ourselves and then get the program and see if we can actually get some volunteer assistance for that piece. So, that's one item. We would do it in the colder months anyways so that you allow the plants to grow, that type of thing. And repeat that. That's 5,000 for certification, right?

Yeah. Now, would you use our staff to do that? Certified and we can go out and do it. And that's the smaller stuff. That's not anything big like a restoration. Restoration needs some design and that's a little bit different. It'll be part of staff volunteer hours. I'd love to be out. Buddy, have fun. Water. Yeah. So, is that also the including the stream repairs? Yeah, the repairs but not restoration repair. So if it's above above the normal high water line, we can repair those sections but we can't the water itself and any of that. That's a restoration.

So we're looking at two pieces. Restoration we would look as part of a watershed study about where we need to do a restoration versus what we can get away with with a repair to stabilize. And then the next piece is the LAR assessment. We know we have the county LAR. We need to assess it. We need to get all the impervious data, put it into a GIS layer, and then we probably need a dashboard tool piece so that we control that as well as our SEMs and our outfalls so we can actually start monitoring and then asking for that data to install it in there so we can go out a year and say, "Oh, you're flagged. We need to see your report this year." And make sure that gets reviewed for all the storm water controls we have, as well as our outfall conditions for the cold birds, making sure that they're in good condition. and we actually review that. So basically this is the flag it and that's roughly 9K to 150 depending on what we go after. We at least need the LAR but we if we want to add the tools so we can start doing that piece that's another item.

That's a onetime deal. Yes. Right. The storm water fund itself is roughly going to be about 150,000 and that would create a tier system where it's this size it doesn't get a charge. It's the next size. It gets so much money, but we need to figure out what that looks like based on what we have. Raleigh has a similar one. If you want to take a look on their site, and I can forward a link to what RAW system does, but that would be it needs to be done about every five 10 years, but five years is the best average to making sure that study is done. We have the current rates and we make sure that we have that tiered approach. We contract that out. You will contract that out. Yes. And there's a cost for that, too. That's the 150.

Okay. That would be the the study and the framework for it. Great. So that's that's a fund.

So that would be a fee that either residential, commercial, industrial would pay based on the amount of impervious that they have and that would go into a fund that we would use to maintain the structures or add ones for existing structures. It could be a portion of how we we're operating dealing with the costs because we have um as a community we have all these compliance items we have we have as well as pieces that have to be maintained. So we have to do both pieces to that. The other thing is our storm water permit fees would be a part of that too like whenever developer comes in they pay a fee and then when they do their euros certification they pay a fee. It all goes into a fund and then all of our costs should come out of that for the storm water, the flood plane, the environmental piece. That is a fund for storm water specifically.

Can PDDs that have already been approved be subject to that fund or subject to those fees? Anyone who has impervious on their property will be subject to the fee for the storm water fund itself. Not the like they don't get a re redo permit or anything like that, but the fees are anywhere from a$122 to $5 a month. It depends on how much impervious they have. If they have 9,000 impervious, they're getting the highest charge. If they have 300 400, they're not getting a charge. You're talking about HOAs, you're talking about developers and builders. Not builders, but everybody. Everybody on their property and everybody. Yeah. And the 150. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Oh, no. I was just going to say clarify it's so it's an enterprise fund that we would be setting up that is just for storm water. So it would be totally separate from general fund. You have to keep all the revenues expenses separate. You can't do transfers between the funds new utility. It's a y and the 150 is to hire a consultant to do the initial study similar to how you do uh a study for SDFs or system development fees. Yep. And to create the framework so that we have established your system. Yep. And because someone is likely thinking it, but how does that affect residential individual residential?

It depends on the individual residential how much impervious they have. If a house owner has 9,000 square feet, they're paying the higher rate. If they have the smallest, they're not paying anything. So, it just depends on whichever tier it is. They go by [snorts] how much area it is. Apartment buildings, how does that work? That that's going to be commercial and that'll be right for the the owner to pay. I think it may be helpful probably in if you could in a couple of weeks provide an example of a I'll send the wrong schedule I can send along you all can look at it just as an example preferably of a town similar size if that's possible

so that that sounds like u a capital expenditure in order to study and then set up framework for the implementation of a utility. Um, and then it would be in a later year that the ordinances would be proposed and and voted upon to uh implement that utility and and the fees associated.

Yes, you would have to review everything and approve it once they put that position and then figure out what schedule works. It could be implemented in stepped stages, not all at once. If need if necessary, we can ask them to do that. that we wanted to do 30% of it in the first year, 50% of it in the second year, 75 in the third and then the remaining. So like you could if you want to drag out so they get to the full cost of it. So if they said it needs to be this in five years, you need to be making this if you want to step it on top the rates. Yes. On top of the tier, it doesn't come as a shock.

Right. So there there are ways to make it [clears throat] gets used to it, understands what they're doing, and then actually be able to see some of the results from it before you just go, here's all at once. Let's take a shot. And who shoulders this burden? Is it um who's who's administrating this planning department or development services department? Public services. Okay. [snorts]

And then the other one is the watershed studies starting with Turkey Creek. It depends on what we get, but it could be anywhere from 250,000 or more. And it's probably going to be more. It just depends on what all we look to ask for because we're going to ask for a CIP, which means any of the areas that we know that can be restoration design and um projects for the coverts. If they they got do the assessments along those areas, we could ask them to do the inspections on while they're doing the wershed study. And there are grants for some of the wersheds that we would go after as well. We wouldn't just say all of it. We try to make as best we can to cup it.

So I heard you prioritize the Turkey Creek wershed or I guess we call it a subwaterhed um as the highest priority because it's not mapped and because there's some problems there. Yes. Um, and and how do we reconcile that with my my gut instinct just from driving around town? Maybe it's just uh observational error or or data collection error that that it seems that Hill Creek or maybe it's Little Creek. I've heard different names for it. Hill was the second one that needed to fall closely behind that.

Yes. So, how do we place that in second when we know that we have ongoing impacts to businesses and uh town infrastructure already from that wershed that subwaterershed? If we want to do more than one study at a time, that's a good idea. But I also want to make sure that we have some information on the ones we don't have any study information. Sure. Yeah. um with the larger storms that are recent, we saw some of that with the larger storms especially. So we I would like to go all at one time.

So can we can we proceed with some some uh measures to uh mitigate current and already known harms and impacts uh while also pursuing the study in Turkey Creek?

Yes, we can. So we can do smaller like shared studies and those could be anywhere from 50 to 100,000 just depends on how big we want to go. But the one concern I am worried about is where they start tying into each other at confluences because you get a backwater condition from the downstream and we want to make sure we're looking at that especially with the developments. So we're asking some of the developments to actually do that with their studies on some of the sections. So we may get some of that covered. We already have some that are coming in the turkey and hill. So if we the quicker how much more do we need to do and use that information that way as well. Use as much information that we have existing as possible.

Well, point well taken because that's I think Turkey Creek spills into uh Robertson and that's why that backed up so badly. Yes. I think Hill Creek eventually leads into Robson Creek too, right? Yeah. I think if I remember correctly, Turkeyy's a little bit closer to the the main section. I think that was one of the reasons because the the further you get down, the more water the backup situation can be in each section. So that's why we want to make sure we look because that's also can go back up the other side of it as well. Mhm.

So I'm hearing four maybe five asks. Yes. and I will do what I can to find matches andor most of it through the grant process. But like I said, right now it's very limited on the funds, but for the green infrastructure and study pieces, we may be able to find a bit. I would really appreciate the next time that we talk about the budget if we could have that on paper, those numbers on paper and [clears throat] and have some assistance for us to work out the prioritization of these things.

Yeah. Um, yeah, I I agree. And I'm assuming that you are so adept at grant uh digging and procuring that might be included in that same. Yeah. Maybe score some of these items as to their likelihood of being grant funded or partially because May's only been here a month and just getting this presentation on this was a push. Huge. We've um great revelation. I also had some help. I mean, I got some friends at Durham since I did work there for a while. I was like, you know, we did this. Can you borrow it? You should take this worship. Thank you.

It's relief. Thank you. It's it's a lot to take in. Uh but it's it's u reassuring. The timing is perfect, too. It's perfect.

Have numbers and some resources to go with that next time. My biggest fear is the uh the Belmont Hill. I'll call it a hill. Uh the development on the that would be the east side of Hillsboro Street. That's going to be a lot of impervious surface over there and it's coming right down the place where we have problems. So this is this timing is excellent. And that is one of the items that I'm asking is they do a downstream downstream assessments of the coverts and the pipe networks to make sure they can handle that flood because if the upstream pipe is bigger than the downstream, it's going to flood no matter what they do. Sorry, which area Mr. Foley?

Any anywhere? Um well, the the Belmont Point Hill, that whole hill, that whole hill that we're Yeah. and and goes both directions in Fire Tower Road and it's coming right down town. We've already seen the issues that happened at Thompson. Miss Armstrong, I have a question. Yes, ma'am. Basically, of course, it floods on 15501 at Basil WAC Street all the way up from actually power place all the way down almost into downtown.

So, my concern is is that are you going to be looking at that area in conjunction when our DOT plans to expand the street? Yes, we'll have to actually be in that communication with them to make sure that it actually is a full bypass, not just a it's going to flood. They don't want it to flood either because it can really flood really bad in that general area. Yeah, we don't want to have to have blocked roads and we also don't want it to have them wash out and that's not realized either because it's underwater. So definitely have them look at that as that portion. I estimated that just that just that widening project is going to be an acre to an acre and a half of more impervious surface

doing subsurface storm water. I keep hearing that. Love to see some drawings. [laughter] Good. Thank you. Thanks. I'm just so grateful for your presentation. Thank you. Yeah, we I I do have one question for you, Miss Armstrong. Uh you mentioned something about UDO changes. Uh are they being submitted to the board for our approval or how is that process happening?

We are through the lawyer and our team goes through them first, gives them to the lawyer for make sure we didn't miss anything and then we go to the planning board first, let them go through what we have um proposed and then it will come to the board after that. So full process and you mentioned something about Wilson uh the town of Wilson having rain barrels.

Rain barrels. Um you said rain gardens for residential if they want that portion to help with some of their storm water concerns. There are things that individual property owners could do to help as well with their water, not just us donates because it's private property. Individual home owners should have full size SCMs. So, it's a uh an amendment or an ordinance that says you can use rain barrels or

Well, not just that, but we will help find a way for them to have better access. They'll maybe find a solution or an agreement where we can reduce the cost for them. So, kind of like us assisting them to get access to

what you're saying. Our customer s my store is right next to the creek hillside. And it it smells like sewage um pretty constant. I mean consistently at least half a month. And a lot of the other little creeks around town sell that way too. Is that something that's going to be part of the study when we that needs to be a water quality component? So that that would be like a a little bit higher. But [clears throat] we would definitely do the testing portions to figure out if there's a cross connect where a sewer line has gotten ruptured or it is fixed in with the storm waters if we could trace it back or if it is one of those TMLs I was talking about where sometimes it's a little stinky or weird looking in color. That's one of the items we would actually do tests on the water quality side. We'd have a we'd have a consultant to do that for us because we don't have facilities for that. Yeah, I think I spoke with most of you about Tri River's request for some capital items. Y'all's thoughts on those, but we've already mentioned the smell to Tri River of trying to figure some of that out.

Do have one more question and everyone else may know it. It's about flood study, flood hazard soils. Um, flood sources are the streams. It can be the lakes, the ponds, it could be underground systems. It's just generally the the streams or the rivers that it's attached. It's the source. It's where the flood comes from. All streams have are a flood source. Just what condition of how much rain gets to it. So that's what the soils are.

Oh, soils. I'm sorry. I should say source. Soils are the actual soils. There's organics and materials in the wetter areas and how it like breaks down. It's softer. So those soils sometimes it's not just in the bed of the stream or in the section that is considered a flood plane. The larger flood planes will have that the soils reach outside of what would be a normal 50 to 100 foot kind of an estimate just through a range it would be outside of so you can see where it had flood historically different time periods. Thank you questions. She was right. I went over 55 minutes. [laughter] This is great. Thank you. It was our fault. Congrats. Thank you.

Uh space with board priorities, number of priorities. Mr. Sure.

Yeah. I addressed the better audio here. Um, in in a similar vein, uh, I'd really love it if we could find few hundred dollars to do some sound absorption in the community house. Um, maybe maybe it's a few thousand, but I don't think it's more than a few. Um, and um, this is a big one. Um and and I'm afraid that it's going to be a significant cost, but um I remain concerned about the the fiscal impacts of what we committed to with the small area plan. And um I hear rumors that there's a section design plan that's going to be coming early in the new year. And I think we need to get ready for that with uh revenues and expenditures and liabilities on a spreadsheet understanding what are the impacts and um if staff don't feel up for that I know that there are firms that could do that. Urban 3 and Bolton and Mink. We're already working with Bolton and Mink. Um I know that those are two that can do it. Um so yeah, I wanted to raise that issue. The overall question, uh what will be the fiscal impacts of the growth that we've already committed to?

Any other items? I mentioned the the U composting toilets down at Rockidge Park. So, I've been hurt on that point. Yeah. Mayor Brook.

Well, my main concern, as you all always know, is about money and making sure that we have enough money to do what we plan to do. So, Jonathan told me I was a budget hawk and I am. So, that's my main concern and I know that Miss Mechum will have her eyes on that. then we would get the new finance director as well. So I do feel comfortable with you all. So I'm not going to talk about my priorities, but that's my main priority. Mr. B,

a couple of the first one I I really like to focus on the staff and perhaps Chattam Park as well. Uh is the straightening out of Fire Tower Road. I know we've talked about it, uh, Mr. Franklin, but, uh, I'd love to see that straightened out so that it connects directly with Martin Luther King Drive. That that is a traffic uh, uh, it's once once that area is developed, it's going to be more difficult. You'll have to turn left and then take a right to get downtown or right left. If you just had a normal tea there, I think it would be a much more sane way of doing things. And I know Chattam Park would have to move things around. But that's one of my priorities. Second priority would be addressing the the profound need downtown for for affordable housing. We have the county moving out. I'd love to see some proposals about that and I have some ideas that I will share. And then the third thing is the the the space behind the the shops on Hillsboro Street. Uh where City Tap is, you look down, you have a you have this great area that's not really being used correctly. And I would love to see us putting our minds together and making it a it's not necessarily the downtown improvement plan that we were talking about, but I would love to see that area straightened out, cleaned up, and uh because uh I think about families walking up and down during Christmas during the uh the the tree lighting ceremony and it's it's just not the proud side of Pits. and I would love to see those three

things action on those in the coming year. Thank you. Thank you. Um and then just a couple for me. I want to make sure that we continue to do uh staff pay, benefits, training, um you know, not just paying for training, but making the time for training as well. um that we have the coverage for that things. We continue to be the the employer of choice. Um and then uh the downtown trolley system uh if we can ever get that started, I would like to continue it. Um so thinking about that funding. So last I heard was December start. So I don't know what December that is,

but um haven't heard that. That [snorts] was that was two months ago maybe at Central Pines. But um actually so and and I think there's some I mean we're just depending on the money but there's value in starting it in a lower traffic time I think and kind of figuring it out a little bit getting it going but recognizing that the funding that we did apparently get is for a limited time and then how we continue it past that time and then expand it as well. All right. Anything else?

I'll uh I'll echo uh Commissioner Foy your point about affordable housing. Uh and I'm realizing that at my uh earlier this year I had said set said set for myself that I wanted to raise during budget scoping um a bolder [snorts] ambition for us on affordable housing that I think we're putting aside uh is it 1% or 2% of our budget right now? One penny. So how does that work out as a fraction of our budget approximately? Well, we have 44 pennies, so it's 144th. Yeah, it's like 2.1%. Okay.

So, uh, can we contemplate and look at some numbers and what it would entail for us to strive for 5% of our annual budget in that fund? I think we just need to get really serious about this. And I it still rings in my ears a developer in a most unpleasant way wagging his finger and slamming his hand on the table. What are you doing about it? What is the town doing? What are we doing in terms of investments in affordable housing? And um it's a really really bad situation. I know I don't need to repeat. Everyone in this room knows how bad it is. And I I think that our budget is a manifestation of our values. And we talk an awful lot about affordable housing and we work on it really hard, but how much of our budget are we putting towards it? And I think 5% would be appropriate, but that's, you know, it's kind of arbitrary. It's just a way to start the conversation.

Thank you. Yeah. I have some thoughts I'll share. at a later date. Okay. Thank you. My kids waiting for that. I know. I noticed no one was breathing and I thought, well, I better say something. But I did echo that the affordable that's always been my concern. As long as I've been on the board, I've always been active with affordable housing. And that's it's not just a Pittsburgh problem. It's a national problem.

That's right. So, we have to work nationally with others to see if we can try to eliminate that or alleviate that which is really a difficult task because things are so expensive. Building is very expensive. So, of course, if we have that money set aside, perhaps we can put some type of programs in place to assist homeowners and or prospective homeowners in trying to purchase something within the town of Pittsburgh shaping your plan. I I'll take it with you. Yes. One by one.

It's you know that the Chattam County the affordable housing Chattam County affordable housing task force they do a lot of good stuff. But now it to me it needs to get to the point where they are assisting actual families not just in trying to rehabilitate their homes but to maybe be able to assist them financially building homes. Yes. Yeah. And and by the same token, maybe we can extend uh these these thoughts and these aspirations to be a little bit more assertive with the county in requesting that they make their investments inside the town limits.

U because it's already in line with their growth policies that that residential growth should be concentrated in the towns, right? I'm not aware of their investments and where their investments are going, but I know that the county is making investments in affordable housing and so maybe it should be in Siler City in Pittsboro and in Goldston. They are making uh concessions here in Pittsburgh. So yeah, they got a considerable investment. Yeah. Coming up from my understanding, [clears throat] they're primarily doing it where development is happening to to spend that money, you know. was has historically been out of the towns when we couldn't build as much. Sure.

But I think that you know the budget as a uh indicator of our priorities is a really good is a real concept. Um I think percentage wise we are actually pretty high like compared to the county for one thing what they put towards it. Um, and then but the other piece of it is with our development, what we're able to do, we have been able to get commitments for affordable housing, commitments for parks, commitments for those type of things that don't reflect in our budget, but are producing. Uh so that's a something I hope we can continue to take advantage of with uh as long as we're allowed to do agreements with developers

and and many occasions and many many different voices have have uh expressed hopes about the downtown redevelopment study in those individual properties uh including affordable housing. So I know it's a multiffront multi-pronged effort but thanks for hearing me and we are looking to have a presentation on the redevelopment study for your uh your budget workshop and [snorts] I know that that seems odd but we're trying to to align uh the timelines for both the county and the town so that way you can information [clears throat] roughly the same time and that those dates kind of lined up.

So that's what we're thinking right now. We we saw the highest the highest and best use analysis this morning and they're going to make some edits to that. Um and then they've got to compile all the uh uh input from the community and again that date would be when I believe that's April 7th is kind of the rough target we have now for for the work. Yeah. To be uh budget retreat. Yeah. That may change but as of right now that's that was a date that was thrown out. And I think that the property involved in that has a tremendous amount of value to the community that we can use without tax revenue. So

it it seems as if the administrative buildings and the sheriff buildings will be part of the first borrow in 27.

This may be moving a little quicker than what we had. In terms of I know the sheriff location that has always kind of been our default was some portion of that property would be used for for some affordable housing even possibly senior uh senior housing uh from an affordable approach but uh in terms of a percentage of our budget I mean 5% sounds great but 5% of our budget is not that much you know and the impact that may create may be very little short term you know you that may be something you have to build up over time um you know fire tower what is that 80 something units and they need almost a million dollars

it would take us 5 years four or five years of saving those pennies to to be able to support an 86 unit project so I don't the impact of 5% may not be as high as possibly what what is I think 1 cent can give us about another million and a half of debt capacity which I think we could utilize that debt capa capacity for far more than just putting it into a savings account. Um, so that that's probably another thing we need to look at is how we utilize our money.

Yeah. Well, I mean, what I was thinking is is these these uh unusual opportunities like the greenway at the um Robert's Run development, the Habitat project and the significant need for that facility to have the same access to recreation as other facilities. And so, I think we did direct some of our affordable housing reserve fund to that, didn't we? or did you figure out another way to finance it?

Yep. Chat Park's paying for it as part of their affordable housing element up to 650,000. And then we've got another development that we're negotiating with that is going to contribute money to uh Habitat as as their fee in L for their affordable piece to get that off the ground a little sooner than later. And that's a gem also, Robert. It's it's making a statement like Commissioner Bonis was was asking. Uh Robert's Run is going to be right downtown for goodness sake and it's affordable housing. We're making a stand and it's a it's going to be a gem and uh can't wait for it to start the ground. You

all should see it in three months. Three months. Yep. We had TRC within this week. Good. Right, that's it. Thank you. I'll take a motion to adjurnn. Second. Thank you. Thank you. All those in favor say I.