Board of Commissioners (boc) - Regular Meeting

[Music] Yeah, they had called on. No, we don't need it.

Tiana [Music] forgot. Wonderful. [Music] Nobody works. You tell me the room

ready for this house. Yeah, right next to appreciate that.

Good evening. Welcome to the Pittsburgh Board of Commissioners meeting for November 10th, 2025. I'll call this meeting to order and we'll start with a moment of silence. Please join me. Thank you. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. Mr. Frell, will you lead us? To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. [Music]

Thank you. We have the regular agenda and consent agenda in front of us. Are there any changes or additions to the consent or regular agenda?

Yeah, I'd like to ask that we move the small area plan to the top of the agenda out of respect for the public who are here in attendance specifically for this item. Uh I think we should take this up immediately following the public comment um before we start miscellaneous items. Second. Okay. Any discussion? I'm really not in favor of that motion, but um if it's the will of the board, so be it. The agenda set. I don't feel that's a reason to uh move items around. Any other discussion? Any other changes? Okay. All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Nay.

All right. Motion carries. Nay.

All right. I'll take a motion to approve the consent agenda. So move. Thank you. Mayor Pro Baldwin. Second.

Second. Commissioner Bonnets. All those in favor say I. I. I. All right. Um, information items. We have two items this evening. The Boys and Girls Club quarterly report for fall and the Town of Pittsburgh financials as of September 30th, 2025. Are there any questions on those items? Up next is ceremonial items. So, we have the uh graduation of the Pittsburgh 101 graduates. Appreciate you all coming out this evening for that. I think it's the largest group we've had so far. Um, if the graduates can join me up at the podium.

All right. I think it's over here.

All right. This is a resolution recognizing the graduates of the 2025 PBO 101 Citizens Academy. Whereas the PBO 101 Citizens Academy is a town of Pittsboro civic engagement program giving residents a comprehensive understanding of local government across administration and finance, police planning and downtown, parks and recreation, engineering, utilities, public works, emergency management and preparedness, public information, and the governing board. And whereas participants invested more than 15 hours over five weeks attending 100% of classes to expand civic knowledge and skills. And whereas their active involvement demonstrates determination to understand town operations, a desire to contribute to the governance and the dedication to a vibrant, engaged community and the democratic process. And whereas the program success was made possible by town staff who gave their time each evening to teach in the evenings to teach in the evenings. Now,

therefore, be it resolved. Section one, the board recognizes and commends the PBO 101 Citizens Academy graduates for exemplary civic engagement that strengthens our democracy. Section two, the board acknowledges the substantial time, effort, and diligence invested and applauds the graduates successful completion. Section three, the board expresses its deepest gratitude to town staff for their invaluable contributions. Section four, the board hereby lists and honors the individuals who completed the PBO 101 Citizens Academy. Emit Davenport, Robert Douglas, Chuck Gillis, Candace Huniker, Amber Johnson, Connie McAdams, Dorian McClean, Jan Nichols, Brian Peterson, Gary Simpson, and Rebecca Young. This resolution is effective on adoption, and I'll take a motion to approve the resolution. So move

second. Second, Mr. Bonnets. All those in favor say I. Thank you. [Applause]

Oh god, that's the worst part of the program. Is the worst part. Oh no.

Oh no. [Music] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. [Applause] All right. Up next, we have the manager's updates and we'll start with the town manager.

Thanks, mayor. Um, for the downtown public downtown Pittsburgh public properties project, uh, inerson community engagement sessions this week. They're here at the ACT Center. the AM sessions from 9:00 to 1, PM sessions from 4:00 to 7. We've already had more than 150 responses so far and everyone can go to the website under the engage tab and fill out uh that survey if they choose. Climate action plan uh it's finished. It's you have that on your agenda tonight for review. Uh thanks to Caitlyn, Jenna, and Central Pines for all their hard work getting that done as quickly as they did. Robison walk master plan community input session held at community house last Thursday. Had a lot of great information. uh input is still needed. So, please visit the parks and recre uh website page and go ahead and vote on some feedback to those concepts. Uh the pre-bid park meeting for Lewis Freeman Park being held tomorrow. Now, that's just a pre-bid meeting with prospective contractors. And so, some information will be coming your way about that as we move that project forward. Uh I do want to introduce our newest member of staff, development services director May Armstrong. Um you just want to stand up. There you go. uh she joins us from ESP uh where she was the municipal infrastructure manager. In that role, she was responsible for flood plane mitigation, storm water, rightway more than 88 million in successful grants in the last two years alone. So, we're really looking forward to that money coming over here.

Hey. Yes, sir.

See, you say I just spend it, right? She's an expert in infrastructure and service water management and specialization construction contracts and funding. more than 25 years experience um as far away as Korea and manage rail infrastructure, utilities, erosion control, and storm water across Louisiana and Mississippi and nearly a decade in local government experience from the city of Durham as flood plane administrator and development coordinator engineer. And since she started, she's already hit the ground running and getting a lot of work done. So, we're happy to have her on board. Um keeping up with the staff theme, we have the Clash of Crews coming up on November 21st. This is a safety training and competition between parks and wreck and public works as team building. So we can get those two departments working uh more in keep line. Um on the public works piece, the I work software is now live on the town website. So if you have updates or things that you want to report to the town, you can do that on the website. That'll allow us to do service requests and then track the status of those requests. Other than that, staying busy. Thank you. And we've got department of the month is communications and emergency management. And Colby,

I'm take a quick poll of hands real quick. Can everybody hear the audience? No. No. Okay. Can we get it turned up a little bit, please? Testing. Testing. Yes. Can you hear me now? Louder. Couple should testing. All right. All right. Colby,

first off, uh, thank you all. Uh, Colobby Sawyer, director of communications, merge management for the town of Pittsburgh. Just wanted to be able to give you an update on our department. The last time you got an update from us was nine months ago. I'm happy to report that we've made a lot of significant progress since then and happy to uh answer any questions uh you may have at the end. Good. Next slide, please. So, uh one big change since our last uh uh since our last update is we have added another staff member. We've grown by 50%. Uh we have added Robert Douglas. Robert is of course the IT director for the for the town. Uh he also just completed the PBO 101 Citizens Academy. But then we also have Caitlyn Murphy who was our communication specialist and really driven a lot of the progress that we've seen. Next slide, please. So like to just remind everybody what our goals are. We are always trying to develop strategies to ensure that our residents receive accurate, timely, and easily understandable information. We want to make sure we maintain an open line of communication that keeps the public informed. We want to make sure we are use utilizing the the best tools uh and platforms to broaden our reach. And we want to make sure we are creating opportunities for residents to participate in those decision-making processes, which I had a resident share with me at the community meeting just recently how happy they had been to know that there was so much more really in-depth community engagement going on. Just a few updates to show our growth. Um I neglected to put the current year uh as of uh today numbers on there. I apologize for that oversight. Um but essentially we have continued to grow. We're at about a 10% growth on all of those since the end of the fiscal year. Those are the numbers of people we have subscribed to alerts on our website. Of

course, we always want to get that number higher. So we can always direct people to pittsburghc.govnews /news and if they click on notify me they can sign up for all those alert type categories. Uh same thing applies also for the agenda center. We have seen a significant uh or a continued growth in our agenda center. Uh as you can see the current numbers are effective as of October 31st. There is not a significant amount of change since the end of the fiscal year. And so we really are looking for some help of getting people signed up to get these agendas sent to them. Again, that's pittsboronc.govnews. Click on notify me. Now, where we have seen a lot of growth is on some of our other features of our websites. So, uh we have seen about 90 additional people uh since the end of the fiscal year sign up to receive bids from the town. Our calendar uh subscriptions have jumped through the roof. They've more than doubled since the end of the fiscal year. I attribute that uh really to parks and wreck, Mara and her wonderful programming over in parks and wreck and then a lot of our community events. And then we're also still seeing a continued growth in the number of people signed up to get job alerts from the town. We're also trying to be more active on social media. So, uh, since, uh, the current fiscal year started, we've, this was as of October 31 or as of October 31st, we've already had 80 posts on Facebook alone on the town's account. Uh, if this continues, we are on track for about 240 before the year is out. So, we hope to beat last year's. If you would go to the next slide, please. and uh our engagement on Facebook, we're really seeing some good results there. As you can see, fiscal year to date, that is of October 31st. Uh but we're on track to have over a half a million reach this year. Uh if we keep up at the

rate that we're going, uh probably 29,000 visits and hopefully 735 more followers if the math maths. Um and I'm pretty sure it maths. And then the town's page is not the only thing we have. We also have a parks and recck Facebook page. Parks and Rec does a wonderful job sharing park programs, park updates, and events on there. We got 2,800 people subscribed to that. The police department has about 12,000 people who follow them on Facebook uh for a lot of good safety information, a lot of good information about what's happening around town. And then downtown, we have a Facebook and an Instagram account for downtown with uh a combined about uh 7,000 people interested in downtown. Please go to the next slide. But we're not done. We still have work to do. We continue to keep improving. When I last reported to y'all, there was a lot of website work under the way. Uh we are continuing to work diligently on the website and improving it specifically in look and user interface and then trying to make sure it is optimized both for our our uh our residents use but also for accessibility and trying to reduce that complexity. This is an example what that looks like. This is the new communications page. If you remember our old website, there was two bars on either on the left and right hand side of the screen. It squinched everything up. There was a lot of text and not a lot of graphics. We're trying to go away from that. So, we have expanded the page out, gotten rid of those sidebars, and tried to be more graphical in how we uh represent what that page is doing. Uh each page should have three, four, five buttons at the top, which are the most frequently used things. We still have a couple departments left to go to get them there. And then the last thing over in IT, since Robert has joined us, uh we have made a lot of progress in it. We've had a lot of wins. Jonathan mentioned

IWorks. We're really excited about that work order system going in place. We have been able to upgrade the video conferencing software in our conference rooms to make it more reliable and make it a higher quality as we continue to have hybrid type meetings. Over on the back end of the IT, we've removed more than 75 objects out that we didn't need anymore. Uh by having someone on staff who can see the day-to-day operation of the town, they were able to look at those and see that those things may be defunct and not needed. So just by having someone on staff who knows what's going on, we've been able to pull some of that out. We've also looked at Microsoft Planner. It's a project management software already included in the U Microsoft Office license that we pay for uh for complex uh project management. And I won't go through line by line, but also uh state local cyber security grant program in 2023 we received funding. We'll be going for funding from them again for advanced and some additional hardware to make us more uh for one useful but also more secure. And with that that is all I have unless you have any questions.

I do. Yeah. Can you go back to uh is I works? Yes sir. Can you describe the success of the process? What do you what do you expect to to

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't see no one from public works is here, but essentially instead of someone having to pick up the phone, call town hall, put in a service order request, Nicole up at the front desk or whoever's at the front desk gets that where it needs to go. It gets logged, it gets tracked, however it's being done right now or previously, it gets done. And unless it's someone requesting, I need a new trash can, they might may not know that their request has been resolved. with IWorks, they can go in, do it themselves. They can put in a request. They can say, "Here's exactly where I'm at. Here's what the problem is, or here's what I need." And from the from what we've seen from the demo, uh, if you put that request in, you can then go in and track that request to see it's been assigned to someone. It's in progress or it's complete.

Oh, excellent. Okay. Customer service. Thank you. Additional questions. Well, thank you all for your continued support.

All right. We're going to take a twominut pause right here to get some additional chairs out. There's some other seats over here and then we'll put some additional chairs out as well. All right. Thank you all the staff for helping with that, getting those chairs out. Uh we'll move to mayor and commissioner updates. I will start with my updates. Uh last Tuesday was election day, so I think uh historic turnout for Pittsburgh. So appreciate everyone came out and uh glad to have our uh incoming candidates here. And uh next meeting we will do the um honor of the retiring members and uh swear in the new members. So u very you know thankful for the turnout and and honored myself to be

here again as the mayor. So thank you. Uh ribbon cutings. Uh just last night we had a ribbon cutting for a piece of art on the side of Havoc. So, it's called Wheels Up and uh it's been up there for a little bit if you noticed it, but uh colored wheels original that they dug up out of the back of Havoc when they were repair uh remodeling it and then uh local artist uh Edwin White uh did the color and the layout of those wheels. So, there's a plaque there that explains it. So, really really glad to get that um officially honored. Uh on October 16th, I spoke to a group of UNCC grad students who were coming through Chattam County to learn. So, grad students from all uh programs uh came through and uh myself and Michael Smith uh the EDC director talked to them about everything we got going on here in Chattam County. October 28th, we had the PBO 101 graduation dinner here. So, appreciate everyone attending that. Um October 17th had a great mask parade, uh costume pet walk from our downtown group. That was a fun time. October 18th at the Night Farm community uh park, parks and wreck put on a trails and treats event that was I think standing room only for parking there. So uh great great event. October 25th was the street fair put on by Rotary. Uh fantastic uh turnout for that as well. And October 27th we had a pitch night at Havoc Brewing uh which put on by Riot which is a Raleigh Internet of Things. It's the startup um group that we supported here in Pittsboro. They ran it out of Perch and um some really really interesting startups that went through a training course and in a pitch night and won some actual money um here for that program. So um hope to uh continue that program in the future and they will have a uh small business accelerator program starting up this spring. So watch out for that. And uh lastly for myself, tomorrow is

Veterans Day. So many people are out out of school, out of work, and uh so please just um honor veterans in in the way that you feel is appropriate. Um that's all for me, Mayor Provald. Yes. Thank you, Mayor. I actually only have one thing to report and that is the Central Pines Regional Council. that meeting. We will have a special meeting on November 15, 2025, and that's the strategic planning retreat for the executive board. But that's all I have. Thank you, Baldman. You're you're willing to continue serving through that event? Yes, for sure.

Very good. That was that relieves me of a concern, a worry, but uh yes, I've I've um my update will be short. I've been rather preoccupied with this small area plan, but I can report that my efforts through the Chattam County Climate Advisory Committee had me participating in the Chattam County Board of Commissioners all day work session both LA last month and uh this past uh Thursday. So, it was a very productive event and um I think the county is well on its way to developing a good climate action plan. Thank you, Commissioner Ferrell.

Uh yes, uh I attended ABC board meeting uh this past month and Commissioner Bose, he had been taking this for years and I assume I may be taking this. I will we'll see how that goes. But, uh sales continue very strong in Pittsburgh. both stores they were always all in a positive note unlike the other local like Chattam County stores and some other state stores sales were down so we're seeing positive trends in these two stores and that's good thank you thank you and I also sent tended the mural desication uh Sunday night thank you Mr. Fer.

Uh, yes. A couple things. Uh, I did attend a ribbon cutting while you were doing your responsibilities in Michigan and that was at New York Spine and Sports. I did that in cooperation with Cadam Chamber of Commerce. It's a new uh chiropractic uh spot that's opened up in on Subtles Road. Uh, kind of sportsoriented. So, if you have somebody, you might want to direct them in that in that direction. Uh a couple things on the uh North Carolina real estate market. Uh first up for the for the state in general, listing active listings are up 25% year-over-year and the inventory is about 5 to 7 months plus or minus 5.7 months. 5.7 months is about 6 months. 6 months means that the sellers and the buyers are pretty much equal. So no one has a strength over the other one. If you have a buyer market, you know, prices drop. If you have a sellers market, prices rise. So, right now, it's kind of healthy right in the in the center. The median sales price in North Carolina mid 2025 is 374 and Chhatten County and Pittsburgh's as we know it's a lot higher than that here. Um, the implications for Pittsburgh and Chattam County, well, the growth in industrial and life sciences is very healthy. If you look down Highway One, uh that's between Apex and Sanford. Lots going on there. I'll just read you a couple. So, uh Fiser of course is already has already been in Sanford. That's 2019 they went and that's worth $500 million. Estellis. Estellis is in um Estellis is

just north of Sanford, close to Pittsboro, Southern Village. Estellis 109 million. Fujifilm and Diosynth. Fujifilm and Dio Synth are on Highway One closer to Holly Springs in Pittsburgh. That's $2 billion. Mgen December 2024, $1 billion. MGEN has moved into uh Highway One and Kiwa Kirin that is also a health and life sciences $530 million and that is going in on Highway One as well. Uh actually closer to Pittsburgh than any of those. So lots going on there. I attended the uh I am a ex officio for uh Chen County affordable housing advisory committee and we celebrated a couple monumental uh accomplishments both have to do with Chattam Park. Chattam Park is uh sponsoring Redfield Place which is up fire tower road. uh those are affordable houses 30% to to 80% AMI these are town houses one two and threebedroom apartments and uh thanks thanks for that also they are also sponsoring a 368 unit comet apartments that we can see right on right on Chattam Parkway so that's an accomplishment there update on will speed. Will speed is out of chapter 11 according to EDC. I attended that meeting. EDC had a sponsorship meeting two weeks ago and I learned that Chad Wilspeed is now out of um out of chapter 11 which is wonderful. Uh they've

received a certificate of occupancy and they have begun early production according to the EDC. Also just south of town, we have Wolf, excuse me, Vinfast. Vinfast is that EV site that seems to be dragging. Uh, initially they talked about 7,500 new jobs there. 7,500 is substantial just south of Pittsboro. Their uh commitment uh extends through next spring, this coming spring. And after that commitment is up, they have a decision to make whether or not to continue and begin to build a factory or step back and sell it back to the state. If it does sell back to the state, EDC uh claims that we have a number of factory opportunities from other from other companies that are very interested in that same shovel ready site. And again, that is literally two parcels from the bottom of the southern south village in Chattam Park. So I think that's all.

Thank you, Commissioner Post. I have no formal update tonight, but since this is my last full meeting, I would like to say thank you to the town, to the staff, and to this board. Um, it has truly been one of the great honors of my life to serve here and and I'm grateful. Pittsburgh has given me friendship and acceptance and a sense of community and I'm thankful for every bit of it. Thankful to all of you, even the haters. And this town is amazing and I hope we don't mess it up. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause]

All right. Up next, we have public comment. We have a significant number of people signed up this evening. So, there's uh when you come up, please state your name and address at the start of your comments. There's a time limit of three m three minutes each will be displayed on the screen and strictly enforced this evening. In the interest of time and fairness, it is the board's policy not to respond directly to comments during this period. Staff will follow up as appropriate. Any speaker with handouts should give them to the town clerk and they'll be distributed to the board at the conclusion of the meeting. So, I'll call uh two people at a time so you know who's on deck. We will start with Mark Barroso followed by Vicky Atkinson. No pressure. I was going to be first. My name is Mark Barroso. I live at 110 Pimmen Hill Drive, Pittsboro, North Carolina 27312. So, um, I'm not an expert in land use, but I have been sucker punched by a car salesman who promised me free maintenance on my car for life, but in the fine print of the contract, he said I couldn't drive it. So, let me take you back to 2004. The last time we had a uh the well, it's the largest at the time, Brier Chapel. According to news reports, Brier Chapel promised a library, a sheriff's substation, a fire station, recycling center, a building for county services, and 120 affordable housing units. None of that happened.

They didn't get it in writing. Let's move on to affordable housing. Just a few weeks ago, your colleagues at the board of commissioners at the county level heard from a developer that the county's commitment to build affordable housing in their subdivision, Victor's Village, was going to cost the county $155,000 per unit. Cadam Park has said that your commitment is going to only be $10,000 per unit. This increase happened over the count of uh over the last four years. Victor's Village said initially that the county's obligation was going to be 78,000. In four years that grew to 155,000. So, this $10,000 commitment to build affordable housing is a joke. What every developer in this county has done is written a check so they don't have to build affordable housing. By agreeing to the this proposal tonight, you are giving up leverage by approving all 16 sections at once. If they screw up the first one, you can hold them accountable in the next 15. This is how out of sales out of I'm sorry, can't read my own writing. This is how out of town salesmen work. They make you feel like you're doing the right thing, but they they they know they're going to do whatever the hell they want when it comes time to building.

Like I said earlier, I'm no expert. Thank you. Your time is up. But I do know the closest thing and that's the planning board and they have We're gonna hold time tonight. Sit down. I'd approve this. Up next is Vicky Atinson followed by Cara O'Connell.

I'm Vicki Atinson. My address is 361 Wild Ginger Ridge, Chapel Hill. Almost everyone that I speak with in Chhatten County and Pittsboro is concerned about two things. affordable housing, the lack of affordable housing, and red-hot pace of development. Two new town commissioners were just elected by very large margins, campaigning on better managing growth. This board stands at a crossroads tonight, and I have two questions for you. Do you want to be remembered for voting for Chattam Park investors 5,000 acre outrageously labeled small area plan? A oneandone for Chadam Park or for phased true smaller plans that develop over time and benefit from what is being learned as this development unfolds over decades. And the second question, do you want to be remembered for listening to what voters say or closing the door on future oversight by town commissioners? Voters just made their choice very clear in the recent election. I hope you choose to take the time this massive development calls for to have it be in Pittsburgh's best interest. and I hope you support continuing oversight by the people's representatives, this town board. I encourage you to vote no on this massive plan. Thank you.

Thank you. Next. Next is Cara Okonnell. All right. And no applause, please, as well. We got about 30 people signed up this evening, so we need to move through them. Uh Cara O'Connell, followed by Julia Kennedy. Thank you.

My name is Carol Connell and I live at 568 Robertson Creek Road. I am here to talk to you about some of my concern from what I've read on phase one development of Reeves Farm. Uh I wanted to update you about the Eagle's Nest. the um developers had uh gotten an eagle take permit um and bought out their um ability to take the eagle's nest and tree without making any reparations or you know normal things to the site. And since then they have cut down the eagle nest tree. They've cut down all the large pines on that back tree line and also the majority of the trees on the tree line where phase one is going. I feel like they they took another tree that was a hunting perch tree was a a old dead cedar tree on the east side of the pond. and they have really made this pond situation less habitable habitable by by the uh the eagles there that were living there for so many years. Um, I'm also concerned that the plans have no provisions to uh preserve tree canopy or wildlife corridors and that the conservation easements that were in place years ago uh are very difficult to find even though they're noted on uh the plat. No uh indication of what those restrictions are at this point. and I can't find it. Um,

so um I am concerned about uh the pond and the waters in the area and so many ways. Um, there's somewhere is a mention of a dam and I'm guessing it's the south side of the uh pond where they have planned a large development right on top of a drainage area that goes into a tributary to um Robertson Creek. And the other concern I have as far as uh runoff and drainage is that during Shantel last year, 64 was blocked because the water was so high. Um and I know I was stranded on Reeves Road or getting home to Reeves Road. I couldn't go north, south, or east.

Thank you. Up next is Julia Kennedy followed by Gordon St. Clear.

Good evening. My name is Julia Kennedy. I live at 278 East Salbury Street. You're in Pittsburgh 27312. Not every green space in Chattam County needs a development. People move here because we're charming. Because we are charming. We have a small but vital downtown with local store owners who inject money back into our local economy. With overdevelopment, we will lose the very charm people come here for. Big box stores and sprawling shopping centers may eventually kill local shops. National retail chains will send their profits back to company headquarters, wherever that may be, for more yachts and rich men's toys. This is just one of the negative outcomes we face. Factor in infrastructure, loss of green space, light and water pollution, the list goes on. Many people are much more knowledgeable about this than I am. Our county needs thoughtful growth opposed to seeing every development that comes down the pike as positive. Otherwise, we will lose the very character of our community. Thank you.

Up next is Gordon St. Clair followed by Matt Hayes.

Thank you Gordon Sinclair 370 Coral Lane. I moved to Pittsburgh about five years ago from Apex. Um, I moved to Apex from Chicago about six years before that. Uh, in Apex, I didn't hear anyone saying how great the development was for the town of people of Apex that lived there prior to it. Um, it dramatically transformed in a negative fashion the character of the town. Uh, I I say this as a cautionary tale to everybody here on the board. Uh there I encourage you to suspend any movement on this until I think there's an overwhelming majority of people here that would like to see our elected um position here sort of come to bear on what's being put in front of the board and I think that would be the prudent right thing to do. I do actually question the motivation to actually approve this thing because it makes no sense. Like legitimately 27,000 acres is plenty of space to figure out what you can get right and get wrong. And there's plenty of things that can go wrong. Storm water simply just as a simple basic fact. Prior to my living in Chicago, I lived in San Francisco. People could not afford to live in San Francisco to work in San Francisco. People say, "Oh, it's a filled city. There's no one there to clean up all the poo on the street." Nobody could afford to live there that would clean up poo on the street. Okay. What is being built here is a very very significant dividing line between what is Pittsburgh as we know it today and I've always known it and this future. And the reason why they want to build it here is because this place is great. It's got the best location. It's got the best access to resources. This place is a jewel. It is exceptional in the state. I fell out of lecture when I landed here. This place is incredible. The

people are amazing. I have an incredible diverse group of friends of mine on both sides of the political aisle. Crushing things are happening in this country. Economic downturns. I lived in Atlanta. They built huge developments that nobody lived in for years because of the crush on the what happened with the economy. I lived in San Francisco. I lived in Chicago which had institutional design problems in that city that are so overwhelming that I don't know if it'll ever get out from underneath it. You are building all these things here. The examples are all around you all around the world. Certainly all around this country and they aren't good. And you have plenty of time to ask the questions that need to be answered. water, electricity. Are you guys going to build a gas plant or a coal plant or whatever nuclear plant? What's the plan? What about the roads? What about the load on the roads? What about the intersections where the kids are crossing the street at schools? All this stuff needs to be figured out. And I think you need to give time for that to happen. So, 2700 acres seems plenty to me. You don't need them. Give them five. At least put a check on it. That's all I'm guessing.

Thank you. Up next is Matt Hayes followed by Davis Lind Wiseer.

Uh, hey guys. Matt Hayes here, 926 NC87 North. I got two things. One, first, there's two boy two scouts over there right now. They're working on their citizenship in the community badge. They would love to speak with any one of you um after this meeting or at some point and stuff. So, please connect and stuff. Um, I'm part of the planning board and stuff. I wasn't elected. I was appointed by one of you guys. I'm on the planning board. I applied for that because same things that scouts kind of endeared in me that's c you know civic engagement stuff. So what you all are aware of um is our planning board. We got together we've been learning a lot asking tons of questions and uh thanks to our planning board here our planning department who's given us a lot of grace uh answering all of our questions that we've had. I really want to call Teresa on stuff. has just been awesome in taking all our questions and coming up with as much as she can. Um, unfortunately, it does not answer all of our questions. We still have very, very many of those remaining. Um, you know, we voted unanimously to deny the approval of this small area plan. Um, lots, you know, a few of you were were the folks who kind of appointed me to this board and stuff. And I think it's just prudent to um remind you that um we've denied this with all the questions that we've asked and answered and all the remaining questions that we have. So um if I could ask you one thing, it would be to table this and to wait for our newly appointed uh commissioners uh who represent the this town who are elected by the people here to be able to to vote on this. It doesn't have to be today. It can be later. and you should consider that please uh to let uh you know our citizens and their newly elected representatives give this a vote before you exit. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

Thank you. Up next is Davis Lind Wise Becker followed by Megan Kimble.

Good evening. I'm Davis Lindseay Weisbecker. I live at 99 Rea Road. I know Reese Farm is not the marquee attraction this evening, but it's still a 500 acre development and once in a-lifetime opportunity for your town. So, I appreciate your decision last month to table the development agreement to allow for more time for you and your staff to consider and review the document. Although there's no continuation of the public hearing this evening, I did feel compelled to say that I still see significant gaps in the terms. First, the concepts of the phasing plan that are outlined still indicate no commercial development will happen until the final phase. Um, and no minimum commercial or non-residential guaranteed, just perpetuating the tax issues that are burdening home owners. Now, second, all affordable housing is still likely to be clustered in phase two, and it is enshrined that there will be no affordable housing in phase one, which is closest to Pittsburgh schools, library, community college, senior center, etc. Next, as Cara mentioned, there are no considerations for environmentally sensitive lands. Um, town residents are really going to be the ones that pay the price for this down the road with even higher pooling bills and tax bills to pay for upgrading our storm water infrastructure. And finally, I feel that town residents are giving up 12 and a half acres of public land in exchange for $500,000. Um, I get it. I have a four-year-old. I love some nice park amenities, but ultimately if someone offered me $500,000 or 12 and a half acres of prime Pittsboro real estate, I think the land is a better deal. $500,000 conservatively may be the selling price of one new home in this development. And meanwhile, there are 13 acres on Hillsboro Street listed for $1.15 million. So why are we saying $500,000 is is equal? So, this is a large project that will have impact for years, and this document will be the foundation that your planning staff and others refer to as each new aspect of the project comes across their desks. Everything has tradeoffs and pros and cons, but from where I sit in ETJ, I

think this document has major weaknesses. Many of the people who authored this document probably don't live in Pittsboro. So, I urge you to judge this document as town residents and representatives of town residents and vote based on what you would want for your own neighborhood. Whatever comes to pass, I truly look forward to welcoming new neighbors on the west side of town and biking to Pittsburgh Elementary School with my son in a few years or maybe Horton at the rate we're going. But I optimistically hope that um well I do want to say I have come to terms with the fact the box turtles, wild turkey and eagles are all going to be gone at that point. But I still do hope that the ride will be through a vibrant and diverse neighborhood where we can stop at a bookshop or coffee shop owned and staffed by Chattam residents and not just a shadeless multi-use path passing by a sea of matching mailboxes and crate pearls. Thanks.

Thank you. Up next, Megan Kimble followed by Seth Sakura Bod.

Good evening, Mayor Shrip uh commissioners and staff. My name is Megan Kimell with the Southern Environmental Law Center in Chapel Hill. Here to speak on the South Village Small Area Plan. I'm not here to advocate for any particular outcome, but to offer myself as a technical resource to the town. My goal is to help ensure that whatever path Pittsburgh takes is legally sound to protect both the town's authority and the master plan's vision for a true live, work, play community that endures for generations. And we would be really cool. Um, the proposed small area plan introduces a new section design plan or SDP process that would shift key policy decisions away from the board's legislative review to an administrative one. Under this framework, the board's role would be limited to verifying whether standards are met and public facilities are adequate. That may sound procedural, but it has real consequences. As outlined on pages four and five of the draft SAP decisions would that would be deferred include the mix and location of land uses. So how much is residential, commercial and mixed use in each section, the density and building types, whether the area supports town homes, apartments or single family homes, street and block layout in each section. Uh that affects walkability and traffic circulation and timing and placement of public facilities like schools. There's only one school on the map. Uh these are policy choices. the very matters that the development agreement reserves for your legislative and public review and creating a new administrative layer outside that framework introduces legal and practical risk. The development agreement, master plan, and additional elements already form a clear structure. Inserting a new approval process that isn't authorized in those documents opens the door to inconsistency and confusion about which rules apply and when, making it harder to ensure decisions are implemented correctly over time. This is a 25year agreement. It

needs to be clear enough for future boards, staff, and even future owners to understand. An informal process today could lead to inconsistent approvals or disputes years from now over what was actually authorized. Uh there's also the matter of binding future boards. The agreement was approved with the understanding that each small area plan would return for legislative action allowing future elected officials to apply their own policy judgment. If this SAP is adopted as a broad conceptual plan with details decided through administrative SDPs, that discretion effectively disappears. th those elected after you would inherit a 25-year commitment with limited ability to revisit um key choices about land use design and infrastructure. Um, so I encourage you to take your time, consider um, two ways forward. Either require a complete detailed small area plan consistent with the development agreement or if you want to use the SDP model, formally amend all the governing documents through the pro the proper legislative procedure and reserve legislative discretion at the SDP stage.

Thank you. Thank you. Now say next is Seth Sakorabod followed by Meredith Dylan.

Uh good evening everyone. My name is Seth Sakuri. I live over at 424 Johnny Burke Road and I've been here on and off for the last six years in town. Um I work in conservation and land management. So as you can imagine, this is a topic that's really near and dear to my heart. And I'm also here today because I want to talk about how this community uh is going to be affected by it. And I want us to think about um how it grows in a thoughtful, sustainable, and organized fashion. Um as a result, I'd just like to quickly ask that you reject the proposed South Village plan and respect the planning board's advice. Um, there are a lot of strong feelings about Chattam Park's growth, which further underscores the need to gather the community's input and leaning on the planning board's expertise as we collectively consider what type of community want we want to build and live in. Um, so with that, I don't want to take up too much of your time. I just hope that you'll respect the outcome of the recent election and your own processes for this development. And thank you for your time.

Thank you. Up next is Meredith Dylan followed by Kathy Russell.

Hi, I'm here representing uh Chadam Climate Action Network. U my name is Meredith Dylan. I live at um 1570 Listra Road. Um um this I'm I came to bring this petition that our group has has uh reached out to more than 900 people um in the Pittsboro um Chapel Hill area. I mean I'm sorry, Pittsburgh and Chattam County. Uh we have more than 900 signatures here that I thought leave with you tonight. Um and I will read you parts of this um petition that we gave to people before they signed it. Um, we the undersigned residents, business owners, and stakeholders of Pittsburgh and Chattam County respectfully urge the town board of commissioners to reject the proposed blanket approval of Chadam Park's 5,000 acre small area plan. Instead, we advocate for the town to maintain oversightes through the original intent to review multiple discrete small area plans that allow for careful, transparent, and community centered planning. Chattam Park is a transformation transformative development with the potential to shape the future of Pittsboro for generations. Originally, the town required a series of individual small area plans to ensure manageable phased growth, community engagement, environmental consideration, and infrastructure planning. These SAPs are intended to provide the town and its residents with opportunities to evaluate and influence development on a human scale. Now, Chattam Park Investors has proposed a single 5,000 acre SAP, effectively circumventing the granular review process that the small area plan framework was designed to support. We believe this is contrary to the spirit

of the town's original vision and removes crucial mechanisms for public input, flexibility, and accountability. So, we respectfully request that the Pittsboro Town Board of Commissioners reject the single 5,000 acre SAP proposal, reaffirm the requirement for multiplephased small area plans that align with the original intent of Pittsburgh's development oversight process and ensure meaningful community engagement and transparency at every stage of Chadam Park's expansion. We recognize the importance of growth and economic opportunity, and we believe it must be balanced with sustainability, accountability, and respect for our community's voices. Pittsboro deserves a thoughtful participatory planning process, not a blanket approval that limits oversight for decades to come. So, I will leave these 900 signatures with you all. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Up next is Kathy Russell followed by Cindy Berry.

Hello. I'm Kathy Russell. I live at 261 Oayance in Monair. I am current chair of Pittsburgh Downtown Advisory Board and I am the street fair chair of Pittsburgh Rotary. I'd like to take one second to say that I strongly support the two new commissioners and believe that uh the will of the voters who elected them should be respected, but that's not why I signed up to speak. So, on another note, I'm here to thank you all uh for your sponsorship and your partnership in the Pittsburgh Street Fair. Uh we had the uh most successful street fair ever. We had about 3,600 people in 2024, 4,600 people this year, according to the Placer data. Um in particular, Jonathan and Teresa have been amazing to work with and and so supportive of us. Pittsburgh Police Department and um Sam Bradburn has got to be the best community officer anyone ever had. They're all amazing. Um so as a as a reminder for your sponsorship, you all um gave us an inkind contribution of police presence, use of the popup park and restrooms and um trash collection of public works were also amazing. So, we don't have our final numbers yet, but we Pittsburgh Rotary raised um in excess of $20,000 this year. All that money goes right back into the community. We fund Kora. We fund school supplies. We fund books for kids in schools. We fund scholarships at now two high schools. And uh for the first time ever, we 5,000 of our money went to an international grant mostly supported by Rotary International. that was to provide rain catchment and water for families in Jamaica without water. So for a small portion of our um efforts, the name of Pittsboro has been promoted now um worldwide, not nationwide, but worldwide

as doing good things. And um it's very much because of you and your support and we thank you. Thank you. [Applause] Next, Cindy Perry, followed by Laura Sandix.

Good evening. My name is Cindy Perry. I live at 259 Hillsboro Street here in Pittsboro. I really sort of miss being with you all. And so, it takes a pretty big issue to bring me out. And I want just a moment to speak about the small area plan which is neither small nor a plant. You know I think about the early years of our dealing with this development. I came became the mayor of shortly after it had passed in 2015. And one of the things we did was we um had an additional elements committee that was so hardworking. They did deep and serious work and I I regard their work still today as something to be very proud of. But I do have one regret and my regret deals with the tree ordinance. The tree ordinance I think about frequently as I pass by denuted tracks of land. And as I recall, right at the very last um minute, changes were made so that you could um allocate these trees in a different fashion than the than we were originally planning to do. And it didn't seem like a tremendous change, but it ended up being a tremendous change. and it keyed in with the small area plan so that ostensibly we thought that there'd be tracks that still had trees and yet

there are not. It's hard to know when you're working on something and I'm very sympathetic with you. It's very hard to know how something that is on paper is going to look on the ground later and how it's really going to turn out. So, I simply urge you to take it slow and keep control as much as you possibly can. Thank you very much. Thank

you. Up next is Laura Sanvic followed by Liz Cullington. Hello, my name is Laura Sanvic. I'm a county resident at 127 Forest Light Lane in Pittsboro. And uh my family bought our 10 acres the same year that Chattam Park announced that uh they would be also coming to Chattam County. Um, I appreciate the opportunity to comment on the notso small area plan for South Village. And I saw that the current staff recommendation was to approve the plan. And I'm curious why that would be when the planning board has a unanimous recommendation that it shouldn't be approved and when new commissioners are on the way with a mission straight from Pittsburgh citizens. This development is having and will have an immense impact on the entire county as all of the previous speakers have shown and I feel that it's only right that Chattam Park is held to the original development agreement and I hope that the town commissioners hear these valid concerns from the citizens from others that have come to our county and choose not to approve this small area plan or not so small area plan and make sure that Chattam Park sticks to their original agreement. Please don't give away the power of the people to developers. We love Chattam and we want to keep it as close to what the soul of it is for future generations. Thank you.

Thank you. Up next is Liz Cullington followed by Lenor Yanger.

Yeah. name is Liz Cullington, 390 Rocky Hills Road, Pittsburgh. Um, this plan hands all additional future planning decisions over to the developers for the remaining twothirds of Chhatton Park for decades. Miss Kimell has laid out more expertly and eloquently than I can how many ways this is just wrong. and I encourage you to read her lumber memo um as well as being very foolhardy. And for the two commissioners who will be leaving, please don't let this be your legacy and especially not without a full understanding of what this plan does and doesn't mean. Meanwhile, even if the idea of a very large, vague, and slippery plan were acceptable and the board were fine with giving away its authority and doing so for future boards, there's plenty that is in this plan's few specifics that would have to be fixed. And they indicate both that the plan is defective and that the developer's intentions are very contrary to the interests of the town. The conceptual paragraph in chapter one makes it impossible to tell what the board would actually be approving. Since it puts everything that follows in doubt, it appears the developer is free to make drastic changes, but commits the town to whatever is in here, should the developer wish. Why Miss Thompson seems to think this is backwards is a mystery to me. The proposed section design plans don't substitute for adequate small area plans in any way, both in terms of content and oversight. And while the wording has been revised, the process still consists of Millie affirming that the plan checks all the rule boxes with a town board reduced to mere puppets. It's not only development layout that would be out of your hands, but you'd be equally perilous to prevent undesirable

land uses or undesirable locations. An indication that the whole project is slipping sideways and that the board oversight and involvement is more important than ever is that the proposed text in chapter 1 would allow up to 50% of the acreage in two or three non-residential sections to now be used exclusively for residential single family house lots, not even just apartments, mostly above other uses. Similarly, the new proposed minimum 10% of non-residential in the mixed use area is the same as the maximum 10% in residential areas. So, effectively, this area is being converted to residential also because mixeduse should mean 40% or higher non-residential use. Um, I have submitted copies of these and other comments in slightly expanded form in hopes that you will take a deeper look at the text if you had any thought of approving this plan. Um it already has 117 uh fewer non-residential u acres than in the master plan. Um maintaining discrete areas for job creation and more positive tax balance is essential. This lack to date was frequently cited in the public comments particularly compared to the initial promotion for channel park. Thank you.

Thank you. Up next is Lenor Yanger followed by Michael Dylan.

Hi. Um I'm Lenor Jarger from 3355 Woodyto Road, Syler City. I serve on the Chattam County Transportation Advisory Committee and I'm also a member of Chattam Can. I appreciate the chance to speak here today against the proposed SAP for Chattam Park South Village. For me, the bottom line is that no one has yet presented a convincing argument as to why it's in the town's best interest to approve this proposal. Why should the town rewrite its procedures in a way that is both extremely risky and legally questionable? I know people who work for the county in Pittsburgh who can't afford to live here. For us to grow equitable communities, it's critical that you, as the governing body, provide thoughtful oversight over neighborhoods getting built and how they can be accessible to everyone. We're also indisputably in a climate crisis. Every travel mile added, every tree cut contributes to global heating. In Chattam County, transportation is the number one cause of CO2 emissions. and our forests, our carbon sink have diminished 10% in the last four years, largely due to development. Development of the South Villages 5,000 acres will contribute to these trends, and how it's done matters a great deal. Apparently, there's still not a complete financial analysis for this SAP that includes revenues and expenses. The proposal before you tonight was made public last Friday, and that analysis was not included. I don't understand how we can even be considering this proposal without that information being provided to you and the public. And I we were repeatedly told by staff that that information would be forthcoming and it has not been. Meanwhile, Pittsboro recently voted in an election that centered on this issue of how the South Village should be developed and overwhelmingly elected candidates who share our concerns. I ask you to follow your citizenry as well as the unanimous recommendation of your planning board

and refuse to appro approve this incomplete and legally insufficient SAP. We ask that you maintain your governance over this project as stipulated in the master plan and not delegate your responsibilities to CPI who we must remember has a clear bottom line and a few staff members however dedicated they may be. Development of the South Village is a hugely impactful project and it needs all of your great minds working on it through a robust legislative process in the decades ahead. Thank you.

Up next is Mike, followed by Steve Wolfford. I hope all of you here tonight are proud of yourselves in the town of Pittsboro. This is what democracy looks like. Wonderful. Thank you all. Renews my faith. I'm Dr. Michael Dylan. I live at 1570 Listister Road, North China. I'm 82 years old. I spent a lifetime in public service, both as a public administrator of services for people with disabilities and as an elected official in numerous positions in New York State and Connecticut. I thank you for your service on the board. Your time and energy enables us to continue as a v vital community. Not everyone is willing to do this selfless work. As you know, you must must uh serve the interests of all of its citizens. Not easy. I speak from experience when I say this involves the sacred trust. Our future is in your hands. You must stand for all of us. You must not be bullied, cajol, or threatened. must always act to advance the will of the people now and thinking of the future. Tonight, you're being asked to approve a new small area plan that was only posted days ago.

The previous plan was unanimously rejected by your own planning board. Now, substantial changes have been made in this new document. The planning board, probably the only group that studied this project more than you, should now look at the new document to see if it remedies the deficiencies found earlier. This is your planning board. Use them. What issues led to their rejection? Have they been corrected? Give them the respect of asking for the their review of this new document. further give the public time to see, study, and comment on it. This seems to be the proper procedure, one that's open, inclusive, and legal. And I in addition, I must say that I'm I'm confused that the planning staff would recommend full approval of the town board after their own planning board unanimously rejected the previous plan. It was so deficient that it required substantial quote revision. Why would this new revision not be returned to the planning board? Then this is the typical procedure. The planning board works with revisions until it's ready for town action.

Thank you. Up next is Steve Wer followed by Carol.

All right. Good evening everybody. Can you hear me? Okay. I'm Steve Wolford. I live on 3355 Wood 40 Store Road in Silk Hope. Uh the first point I want to make tonight I think is procedural. And I think that if staff had said or put on the agenda, we are going to revisit tonight the September 14th, 2015 agreements, the the PDD and the master plan. People would say, whoa, whoa, hold on. That's a big deal. Okay, that was not on the agenda tonight written there, but that is exactly what's happening. Okay. Um the proposal here uses some of the same terms, but it admits it's redefining them. In the original, the small area plan was like a largely ready to go plan people would be approving, you know, that the board would be approving. Okay. Now they're admitting openly it's not. It's conceptual. Okay, that's not what that original agreement called for at all. Now, there's a whole new layer added of the section design plan that it's that's going to be approved in a different way. Okay. So, this really is a revision of that agreement. And I would say just, you know, there's an obligation of transparency. If you want to review that, I think you can. You're allowed. But the public deserves to have that on the agenda for the meeting and with some advanced notice that that's really what's going on. Okay. Um not having it I guess disguised as an agreement named as something else that really changes all the terms. Okay. Uh the second thing I just want to mention I think I mentioned it already in terms of finance. Um my research into development is the financial story is at

first you're getting revenue. Okay. But you take on liabilities. You're responsible for repairs, maintenance, all kinds of other things. Some of the some of the costs like police and fire happen pretty early on. The other ones don't hit until down the road. And a whole lot of communities have found that if their tax base didn't cover those things, they thought they look good for a while and then all of a sudden they're having to pay way more money than they realized and the taxes don't always cover it. A whole lot of towns are flirting with bankruptcy for that reason. When I looked at the finances here, I all I can find is something talking about revenue. If people are confident that, oh, it's going to pay for itself, we'll be okay down the road. That should be really easy to show. There should be a model saying here's what we project the expenses to be. Here's a a standard model planners use that shows we'll be okay down the road. Um how dense a development is versus how spread out it is has a big part to play because you have just as many feet of road to repair. You have less tax base to cover it.

Thank you. So all that will matter. Up next is Carol Hewitt, followed by Tiana Thurber and Candace Hunicker.

It's been a lot. Um, but very good stuff. And, um, I appreciate you giving me a chance to talk tonight. Thank like you, I got the agenda packet Thursday night and I've spent many hours this weekend reading and going through it. Uh the new SAP has more pages, more details about the site design plans, but it still has the one big problem. It is still one small area plan and approving it goes against your master plan and your development agreement. Those those are legal documents. I also read the public comments and they were really interesting and I counted them. Kind of had fun with it deep into the night. 63 specifically opposed approving this. Many went into detail about why it was a bad idea. Another 30 or so talked about density and lighting and wildlife and bike trails. Many asked for smart growth. There were only a few in favor of the plan. Two of those were Tim Smith and Chuck Smith, your developers. In fact, Tim made it clear in his comment. He said, "The plan needs to be approved quickly. Thanks to town staff for pushing this to approval.

Well, I mean that doesn't sound very good. Your planning board of concerned citizens who you appointed, as everyone has said, spent hours on this. I was at their meetings. I was at their work sessions were some of you. And after their deep analysis, they concluded this should not be approved. And I know part of the reasons were, but you weren't told their reasons. Um I don't know why. Anyway, with just one SAP for the next 20 or 30 years, actually forever, the planning board will have no more say in what happens on that development and you will have no more legislative say once this is approved. You're basically reszoning it. You'll only have the site design approval. Um, in terms of public comment, you know what that is? It's a box to fill in. And if if you don't pay attention to the public comment, that's the only thing left in site design. There's no more public hearings. That's over after tonight if that gets approved. Um we know if you approve this, we know what you think about public comments because 63 of the people out of the hundred specifically voted against this. The other 30 were, you know, sort of miscellaneous issues and only a few even wanted this. So, I just worry if approved f future boards are going to lose their ability to make um decisions, the master plan documents are legal documents. There are laws. If you approve this, you're going to open yourselves up to a potential lawsuit. Please don't do that. We don't need that. If you vote for us tonight, you're telling us you don't need to follow laws. You're saying the planning board doesn't matter to you. The public doesn't matter to you. Only Chattam Park investors matter to you and to staff. It's not the message you want to leave us with when you're with them.

Up next is Tiana Thurber and Candace Huntington, followed by Mara Dylan.

Hey guys, uh I'm Tiana Thurber. I'm 120 Hank Street in Pittsburgh, North. I'm Candace Hanser. I'm at 77 Cynthia Lane. And thank you, mayor, and future and uh fellow board members. Um Candace and I are making a joint statement in the effort to save time as there are many people here to speak. We're here tonight for our community. I I just want to thank everyone who has taken the time tonight to speak. I agree with most of what they're saying, all of what they're saying, and um I hope you take everything that they've said tonight into consideration before making your vote. Uh, we're here tonight for our community, the people who put their trust in us to make thoughtful, responsible decisions about Pittsburgh's future. We want what's best for our town, not just for today, but for years to come. We have very mixed feelings about this item being brought up so quickly. It feels rushed, and we do recognize the hard work that the staff and um have done. We believe the board deserves more time to study the proposed changes and understand um the full implications and ensure we're making the best possible choice for Pittsburgh. The planning board, which carefully reviews these matters, unanimously denied this proposal. That alone should give us pause. We don't want the town to be in a position down the road where we're cleaning up a mess that could have been avoided with a bit more diligence and discussion. Our community deserves decisions made with patience, transparency, and care. And that's the standard we want to uphold. Thank you so much.

Up next is Mara Dylan. Good evening. My name is Mora Dylan. I live at 326 Markite Road in Pittsboro. I am going to repeat a lot of things that you've already heard tonight, but I'm going to go ahead and do it because I feel really strongly about them and I think it's really important. I've been attending meetings about the South Village small area plan since May. And over the last six months, it has been abundantly clear to everyone that this issue has gotten attention in Pittsburgh and Chattam County that people are deeply concerned about many aspects of the proposal. And I appreciate that town staff, the planning board, and board of commissioners have listened to public comments upon public comments, asked important questions themselves, and recently invited area residents to share feedback about the plan through the online survey and voice messages. I also want to acknowledge that each new draft of the plan has shown progress. It's become a little more detailed and reflected discussions that have come up at these meetings. But having said that, the plan also continues to be so contentious and problematic. I can't believe you are being asked to vote on it tonight. It's crazy. Proposing a 5,000 acre small area plan has been a rush job from the beginning and it continues to be. The newest version of the plan 151 pages long with vast changes to it, right? You all know this is a very evolved document from just a few weeks ago. This was posted Thursday evening along with other important and lengthy documents. Maybe you as commissioners have had a little

longer to review all the new material, but have you really had adequate time to study and consider what has been changed and what has not been changed? What has been added and what continues to be dangerously inadequate? If this latest draft has addressed all questions and concerns adequately, why the urgency to push it through now? let it stand on its merits and prove itself after a more thorough examination and consideration. The planning board, as you know, unanimously recommended you vote down the proposal. The town staff document responding to planning board and commissioner questions does not address the planning board's most recent meeting, their objections to the plan or their recommendation to vote against it. The planning board is a group as you know that you've appointed for their technical knowledge and judgment on complex issues like this. They've taken their role very seriously and I urge you to respect their expertise and allow them to review the latest draft before any vote takes place. Don't make this decision tonight. Take the time to get it right for the community and for the future of Pittsboro. Thank you.

Thank you. That concludes public comment. Up next, we have a presentation on police department pre-esign. Uh, I think I requested that we go straight from public comment to this action. That was the first action item.

Uh, my motion was to go straight from public comment to this item. The SAP was the vote. This what was approved. I'm pointing out that my motion was to go straight from the public comment to this item, the small area plan. Follow me. I know. [Music] Good evening board. Um, mayor and board members of the board. Teresa Thompson, assistant planning director.

Mic is to your right. Um, the Chattam Park South Village Mohair plan is being presented to you tonight for consideration. This request comes from Chattam Park Investors LLC and it's required under section 9 of the Chattam Park master plan. This was approved by the town in Oh, you can go to the next slide, please. This was approved by the town in August of 2015. Um so for clarity, Chattam Park is already approved for uh 22,000 dwelling units completely um within the 7,000 acres and 22 million square ft of non-residential space. Um in 2015 with the master plan, there was a table of permitted uses that were approved that allows specific uses in each section. So all of these have already been approved and decided in 2015. Um there was also a master plan map that uh was included in the 2015 resoning which you can go to the next slide. So overall the planning development district is just over 7,000 acres. On the screen is the south village. Uh, the North Village is approximately 2,225 uh,000 acres and it received small area plan approval in 2021 with the exact same process that we're doing tonight. It was approved conceptually. Um, and there were some amendments made in 2023 to better the plan. Um, overall staff has worked well with Chattam Park in the north village and there were some lessons learned which is the reason why staff is recommending the section design plan step um in the south village.

Can you Teresa if you wouldn't mind can you expand on that sentence for me for us that last sentence you just read or spoke? Yes sir. expand on it and what was the thought process? U the thought process is that staff would be in the south village having early coordination with Chattam Park before we receive subdivision plats and site plans. Um and in about two slides I'm going to go over a lot of benefits. I'll let you go then.

Yeah. So, my goal is to hopefully provide you all clear information, answer any questions you have so you can make an informed decision. Um, so again, the North Village was approved conceptually just as it's being proposed tonight back in 2021. Um, the South Village is approximately 4,843 acres and it's planned for roughly 15,000 dwelling units and 9.4 4 million square ft of non-residential development. Again, this has already been approved. Um, Chattam Park is vested and entitled for this amount of square footage and dwelling units. Um, if you look at the map on the left, this was the land use map that shows uh general locations of major corridors and sections, activity centers, and land uses. As you can see, 10 years later, it's very similar. So what is being proposed by Chattam Park is very consistent to what was already approved in 2015. So there's no major changes um 10 years later as you can see. Um staff has worked with Chhatten Park in uh creating some more detail where you can see some additional parkland has been added. Um but overall it's very consistent.

How much park pl how much park space have we agreed on? So it's based on um the number of dwelling units and okay feet. So I think on average there's going to be at least 600 uh acres of about 600 acres of open space and and at least about 600 acres of parkland. So that's going to be about 1,000 acres of land that's not going to be developed out of the five. Um the South Village area plan is being presented as a single comprehensive grouping. The goal is to establish an early coordinated framework for land use, transportation, utilities, open space, and future public facilities. Next slide, please. Um so again, in 2015, there were entitlements that were approved to Chattam Park that included all of the additional elements. So if you are

I need to stop you for a minute. I apologize. Yes, sir. Do you define what entitlements are or can I ask town attorney to tell me what entitlements are? So anytime you approve a development, whether it's through a conditional resoning, a special use permit, um a preliminary plat that is giving that applicant vested rights to that property. Okay. And that was done in 2015. 2015. Yes, sir. vestive rights were given to Chattam Park in 2015. 2015 which included the master plan. Um it's about 100page document and then 13 additional documents. Is there any way we can take those rights away from that? I'm sorry.

Is there any way we can take those rights from that those entitlements? No sir. Okay. So all all of that's already been decided. Um, and again in a minute, uh, I'm gonna Commissioners, Commissioner, Commissioner Foley, let's let Teresa go through the presentation. I'm Thank you. No, I need I need clarification. You can ask questions. I don't mind. Um, but in the next slide, I'm going to explain um the uh benefits for the um going through the conceptual process.

Okay. But uh as I was saying with the additional elements, if you're familiar with uh the UDO, our unified development ordinance, um that is the regulations for the entire town outside of Chattam Park. So um anytime you look at a property that's being resoned, a lot of them that you've seen recently are conditional resonings, it's the same process that Chattam Park went through. Um it's just a larger scale. So, uh, a lot of the properties like, um, Ray's farm for example, there was a narrative that you agreed to. There was a a conceptual plan that you agreed to. Um, so whenever they go to submit for development permits, such as site plan, uh, or preliminary plat, we have to go based on what you approved in that conditional zoning. Anything outside of that conditional zoning, we look at what our UDO standards are. So, back in 2015, we did not have a UDO. We had a bunch of freestanding ordinances, at least 10 of them. Um, and all of them were pretty outdated. So, the town worked with the applicant um over several years and created the additional elements. So that includes general provisions, phasing, open space, tree protection, landscaping, storm water, parking and loading, signage, lighting, public art, transit, public facilities, and affordable housing. So if you think about what's in Chattam Park,

it's kind of like the chapters of a UDO. And so they are uh vested to have uh to meet these standards. And the town cannot say that we're going to take that from you at this point. It was already approved. Um, so I just want to reiterate that with this plan being conceptual, the final sighting design details and required improvements that will be determined at the section design plan review process step if it's approved tonight um as is. And the plan has undergone substantial amount of review by the planning board and the board of commissioners over the past several months including presentations in July, August, September, October and now in November. I think this is the eighth one each time um being about average 1 to two hours. As part of the small area plan review, the applicant has received feedback from staff and this started back in December. So this has been going on for about a year now. Um uh the staff included a large uh number of what we call the technical review committee um which uh we we met with them at least monthly in the beginning and a lot sooner or a lot more often um towards uh the last few months. So we took that the comments from staff the comments from the town boards over the past several months as you can see in the staff analysis and in response uh in response Chattam Park has updated the small area plan um as shown in the six middle six submitt that's in your packets uh and all the changes that have been um complete in

the sixth submitt that's also addressed in the staff analysis in your packets. So, we can go over the staff analysis in more detail if you would like. Um, as I was saying, there's a slide that uh I wanted to go over to hopefully give some clarity to um in addition to the conceptual plan, what the uh potential advantages are for having this uh conceptual plan and then followed by the section design plans. Next slide. I could ask one question.

Okay. Thank you, Miss Thompson. So, basically, can you please talk about conceptual plan and then what is next after the concept conceptual plan?

Yes, ma'am. Um, and there's more detail in chapter one. So, it go and that's another um goal for staff was we like clear standards. any planner that you would ever meet is going to say that we don't like any kind of guidelines or um ordinances that are not clear. So we wanted to try and make what this step is and then the following step as clear as possible um to avoid confusion in the future uh about what is required in a section design plan. So um the first step would be approving the overall conceptual plan and then the applicant would be working with staff. So it's required uh which is going to be in this list as well, but they have to meet with us at least three months prior to even submitting their paper copy of the um section design plan. So they can submit a concept plan, but staff wants to be a part of the conversation from day one. Um and again that's a lesson learned from the north village where uh in the north village just like any other development in town by the way it's nothing different uh we receive preliminary plats and site plans by an applicant. Um, we prefer working with this being such a large development, working with the applicant well in advance of that so that we can get the bigger picture view because sometimes preliminary plats, you know, anything that's including five lots or way is considered a major subdivision. So, we want to see bigger picture than that. Um that's why the section design plans require at least 40 acres in size and out of the um entire south village the applicant has agreed to just a maximum of 48 section design plans. So

those section designs has to come back to the town staff and to the board.

Yes, ma'am. Yes. And that's in this list as well. Um so the applicant responded to the request by the board and the community. So the same process that we have for the small area plan is what is going to be required for the section design plan. So that includes two weeks of public comment period. It also in addition includes a board liaison that would like if anybody would like to be a part of any conversations we have with the staff or with excuse me with the applicant from the beginning all the way to the time that it's presented to the boards. Um so the applicant has agreed to both of those as well. Yes.

And what kind of decision is the board asked to make on each SDP?

So the the the board decision is still legislative. It's still discretionary just like the small area plan is. And again, we would like there to be more clarity in what that is because typically when you think of a legislative decision, you're thinking about a conditional resoning that is being brought to you for the very first time. Um staff wanted to and that's in this list as well, but staff wanted to clear that up a little bit more and specify that um it's going to be if we're going to make modifications from the small area plan. Uh it should be based on evolving conditions and we don't know exactly what that is in the future. So that's why we put that language in there. Um and it's it can also be based on in response to public health, safety, and welfare. um and any additional standards in the future. So, state standards China Park has to follow and Chattam Park has also agreed to meet any future town specification that we have, which when they got their development agreement approved in 2021 actually allowed them not to have to do that at all legally. So, per the development agreement, they're locked in place for whatever the town standards were in 2021, which by the way, we did not have hardly any um for town specifications. And uh they're locked in that for 25 years. And Chattam Park has agreed to lift that and go back to the annual conversations that we were doing um with Chattam Park in prior to 2021. uh we were having monthly workshops and coming up with issues that staff saw uh throughout the development like preliminary plat um so if approved Chattam Park has agreed to pick that back up again. The other um part that Chatt park has agreed

to is the elements. So the development agreement that was approved in 2021 locked in place all of the elements that were on that list in the last slide for 25 years. Chattam Park has agreed to um not only meet town specifications at this that's in place at the time that they submit their section design plan. So if it's 10 years from now, whatever our town specs are, they have to meet that. Uh and they're also again open to uh working with the town in updating their elements. Uh so that would be a change to the development agreement as well. Question for you.

Sorry. Yeah. You said that would you agree that small area plan is kind of a mis. It's not small at all is it? It's it's large. But we are approaching that small area, that large small area in sections. Is that right? Yes, sir. Um, how many sections are there? Originally, there's in all of Chhattam Park there's 27. In the South Village, 16. Okay. And those Go ahead. Small areas. Yes, sir. So, we as a legislative body have control of those 16 sections right now? Yes, sir. If we if we approve, you still would. Yes. because they're entitled. Correct. Yes. Okay.

Um, so we are in control of those 16 sections. Yes, sir. As a legislative body. That's correct. Is there any loopholes to that or is it some tricks or No, not that I know of.

Okay. Teresa, if I may, I I want to pause for a moment and and dwell on this a little bit further because in in conversation with Commissioner Ferrell earlier today, he he did point out to me this new language uh which in hindsight, I think it would have been very helpful to have the red lines in advance. Um that said, page six, section 3.3.2 is new language. I even discussed it with an attorney. We agreed. It's clear as mud. But I think what you're telling me is that the the following sentences necessary modifications from the small area plan may be needed that require board legislative approval to comply with updated town standards responding to emergency emerging needs or protect public health, safety, and welfare. Examples include street cross-sections and public facility locations or designs. What I think I'm hearing you say is that that also applies to SDPs section design plans.

That's what this is in reference to. Yes, sir.

It's really not clear. Um, and if that's the intent that this board will indeed have legislative approval, when staff do all of that work on the SDPs and then bring that to the board and we're not merely giving it administrative approval, that dramatically changes all of my concerns. and we've been through a lot of heartache and I'm really grateful to hear that this board will retain legislative authority. I just really want to dwell on that for the audience here to understand what this means is that the board in future will have the power to set rules through legislation at the section design phase.

Yes, sir. What I do regret is that we're not able to do that at this stage of the small area plan, which is not small as we've all been over. I really think there was a greater wisdom in the original master plan in having some series of some subset of 16 greater than one to address the entirety of the 5,000 acres while also addressing the specifics in that section or number of sections. And um I think the most important part is this fiscal analysis that we're still lacking. And for that reason, I still think that this is counter to the public health safety and welfare.

Well, I can speak to that as well. I think there were two things that you just mentioned that I can speak to if I can um go through the slide. Sorry to interrupt.

No, no, you can interrupt anytime. Um so starting with number one uh again these are uh either advantages or additional requirements that Chadam Park has um agreed to through this process. So just to clarify with the flexibility of the conceptual nature. So the it the small area plan is conceptual for the town. It is not for the applicant. So, that is one benefit to having a small area plan be 5,000 acres in size. There's clarity in what Chattam Park is planning to do. So, we don't have to think 10 years from now, you know, the 2,000 acres that's still left in Chattam Park, what could they be proposing? Um, and like I showed before, it's very consistent to what was approved in 2015. So, um, the only way that Channel Park can change any of that is they have to go back through this entire process all over again. Everything that we just did, um, if they want to change anything that's in the small area plan that the town does not agree to, the only other way things can be changed is through the section design plan. And again, that has to be agreeable to the town at that time in the future.

That would be a legislative Yes, sir. Correct. Okay. It's frustrating to me that it seems to shift so often. Every bit of prep work I've done for this meeting did not lead me to that opinion. As for redline documents, I got a synopsis. That is a far cry from a redline document. With all respect to all involved, we all have so much going on in life. And and when you get things this late and they're of this magnitude, we all say that the the wheels of government are slow, but yet we're rushed with everything. Y that's my frustration. Sorry.

Um so again going to uh number two. So Chattam Park is committed to the small area plan. Um so it is conceptual but it's for the town not for Chattam Park.

I have a question about conceptual. Okay. So we have this large plan and uh conceptual to me means we don't know really know where we want to put a park. We have 600 acres, right? We don't want to put a big park right in the middle. We want to adapt in a conceptual way from one park in section 2.1 and then just cut off a piece, right? And that gives Chadam Park flexibility in the town to negotiate. Is that correct? I'm looking at the parks director right now, but are you in favor of this conceptual idea?

Hi. Hi, Katie. Thank you for So I am for keeping that conceptual in there because if you look at some of the other um breakdowns that I had sent over from our third party reviewers as well is that if you lock everything in as it is right now, there are a couple of sites that that I put on your radar that I'm like, hey, we we need to take a look at this, right? I want to make sure that we're we're doing this by making sure that it's conceptual. they're still required to beat their um this um it just that also allows us to be able to say oh we're going to shift it a little bit over here so we could get maximize our usability.

Okay so in actuality than a conceptual nature plan is better for the town. Okay that's what I wanted to know. Thank you. Just in case you want to move something just a little bit. Correct. Is allowed. Correct. Whereas if it wasn't conceptual, it would be there. Yes. You'd be locked in able to move. Correct. Locked in. Correct. Okay. Just want to be clear. And Katie, also that would move and you're consider that could also mean amount of acreage. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Thank you. Just to qualify that too, it can be a lot of bit too, not just a little bit. So long as there's reasons to move a park site, the town has complete discretion in that decision as it is a public facility. Um, so even though a lot of planning was done for the overall South Village uh park plan, in the future it can change. Um, and that could be for various reasons and not just parks but fire stations. Yes, sir. Schools. So, this allows flexibility for future town board members to make decisions. Is that correct? Yes, sir.

Okay. Thank you. And one other thing, Miss Thompson, and that is under the section design plans. Yes, ma'am. In order for them to make that any type of change such as that. Correct. Okay. Thank you.

Um, moving on to number three. As I stated before, uh, Chattam Park has updated the small area plan to require two weeks of public comment. Um, and anything that the town does obviously is public record. So, any anybody from the town can always ask for a copy. And uh we we have citizens come and talk to us all the time about proposed plans and anything that's public record, we can go over that with them and are happy to do so and sit down and go over these kinds of uh questions the public might have in advance to meetings as well. Um but we would receive two weeks of public comments just as we're doing for this meeting. Um and again board liaison can participate in the entire review process. Uh and just for clarity the section design plan is reviewed by the planning board and the town board for discretionary approval. Um transparency which I spoke to a little bit about already. Our goal is to make clear comprehensive um language for the south south village growth. This not only benefits the town, but it benefits the citizens and developers um staff, everybody involved. There's there's a benefit to having um clarity in what's being proposed in the future. Um and that also is a uh one of the smart growth principles is trying to have whatever the proposed development is in the future be a transparent process. Um number there's

one question um in the section design plan when it comes to the town it's a three-month when does it come to the town board? Well, the threemonth period is Chattam Park or the applicant has to come and have conversations with the town. That's the entire technical review committee um three months in advance so we can start coordinating together. So, decisions are already made on what the cross-section should be. So, the town is more involved in that conversation. And I guess what I was asking would we be in at the final plat would we be at the final design of the section design plan? We'll be at the final stages. Just like what we did with the small plan. Yeah.

Uh we've been meeting with this with the applicant for close to 10 months before we presented the first presentation to you all trying to explain the section design plan. Okay.

Um process the proposed process back in September. Um, going back to town specifications, which I already spoke to, the applicant has agreed to meet all future town specifications. That's in effect at that time of submitt. Again, that differs from the development agreement that was approved on October 11th, 2021. Um, and that is a benefit to the town. The applicant has also agreed to meet uh or to update elements. Um we already have a list of workshop topics that uh we have created to start going over with Chattam Park and um which we've already started doing that um number eight which I spoke about already with the or early coordination at least three months prior uh that the applicant will start uh meeting and having conversations with staff and this also O helps streamline future development approvals such as plerary plats and site plants. So if we have a larger at least a 40 acre size in a lot of case it's going to be a lot bigger than 40 acres planned out in ahead the time when it's uh when it's time for the applicant to submit a plumeary plat all of those conversations about what kind of street um cross-sections they should be that should have already happened. So that's going to really streamline that plinary plat review and site plan review approval review and approval. Um so in 2015 the the there was never any language that required a minimum amount of uh non-residential. So that was a topic that staff brought up with the applicant

and the applicant has agreed that in the research and de development sections there would be a max of 50% residential. So we know for certain that there's going to be at least 50% non-residential and again that's different from an entitlement that was already approved for town park but they are agreeing to meet a higher standard. um today uh as approved with this uh small area plan. Um we also talked about the logistics of having clear communication with the board. So the small area plan has a section in there about annual look aheads. Um it's when the applicant would provide information on what's to to come, what's being planned in the South Village. So that includes any element updates we're working on. um the anticipated number of section design plans for that upcoming year, economic development opportunities, uh proposed roadway projects and um any sort of climate action planning updates, public facility updates, again that's fire, schools, roads, transit, greenways, etc. And speaking of schools, there is just the one school proposed right now and that's due to the Chattam County schools um having a memorandum of agreement with the applicant which is included in the small area plan. It's in the the very back as an appendix. Uh so there is an agreement that conversations will be ongoing. Chattam County Schools, they plan for construction only 5 years in advance. So we will be working with Chattam County Schools every year as well. So we will know when there is a need for an additional school and start planning for that well in advance. Um and Chhattam Park would uh accommodate that.

Is is that the same memorandum of understanding from dating from I think 2018.

Uh no I was more recent than that. Let me see. It's uh 2020. Oh, excuse me. 2019. Yes, sir. There would also be annual updates given to the town board that um the the applicant would work with the planning staff in creating for you. Um so that would include any sort of uh land use updates, how many dwellings have been built, non-residential square feet, um any sort of affordable housing updates, type location density bonus tracking, element updates, tree preservation tracking, parks programming and location analysis, park dedication versus flue, greenways built, transportation model updates. Um, so as you know, we consulted with RK to review the transportation model for the 5,000 acre small area plan. We know that needs to be updated and so it will be at a minimum of at least once a year.

A question there. Yes, sir. Why is it that the the most recent draft of the small area plan contains both the 2019 demand model and the 2022 demand model there was one it's an oversight that's fine I just need to know believe all the models are incorporated so 2019 [Music] just for reference was developed.

Okay. So, I'll let um the applicant here answer that question. Yeah. So, everything in the current small area plan is based on the newest model. The 2019 and previous models are in the appendix just for reference to show how we got how we progressed from the original model that was built for DOT for Chattam Parkway to the current model. And I'm Travis Fluitt with Kimley Horn and Associates here on behalf of the applicant. Travis Fluitt. Okay.

Transit routes. So, we would uh be working with um Chattam Transit and also any Chattam or excuse me, transit uh plans that we have in the future, water and sewer model updates, sewer capacity management, sign plans. Um if we do update the process for section design plans, that will be um included as well. phasing updates and then I wanted to mention the fiscal impact analysis. Um so town staff has met with the applicant and feel that it's best that the fiscal impact analysis is updated annually as well and it be projected for every five years versus the um you know 20 to 30 years out. We'd like to see that updated every year and each year be for five years outlook. want comments on that?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Um, so I think that the reason that a financial impact analysis is requested and required in the master plan is because that actually does go to the question of public welfare, the general welfare. Um, and every fiscal analysis that I'm aware of or financial analysis has both sides of the ledger, revenues and expenditures. uh incomes and liabilities and we don't have that at this level and we haven't had that yet and so for that reason I still can't support the document um and I think that there is vital importance to that at this level of decision- making because we are uh embarking on that that grand scale of planning I understand you've worked very hard to get the applicant to remove anything that might be construed as a a vesting in the document. Um, but there's conflicting information about how many units there's going to be. The revenue projections suggest there's going to be 10,000 residential units.

We did speak to the applicant about that. Um, and it might might be

uh clearer if they were to explain it. I've heard them say they wanted to be conservative on the projections, but then there's 15,000 units in the uh I forget what it's called, but the the table that shows where the residential units are are likely to be. Um, and I I'm also confused that all of this talk about uh entitlements, um, this organization is entitled to 35,000 residential units because of the affordable housing audit. And if we go with the assumption that they've put in that they've threaded throughout this document that it's either going to be 10,000 units or 15,000 residential units. What that tells me is they have no intention of providing a full 1,650 affordable housing units. And let me pause on that a little longer. We worked really hard on an affordable housing policy because we know that this is going to be a very large development of very highpriced houses that in itself is going to increase demand for the labor of people who are not paid very well who can't afford to buy a house and they will most certainly not be able to afford to buy a house in the Chattam Park development. And so we worked very hard, Mayor Ship, Jonathan Franklin, many staff have worked very hard on that affordable housing element to get the assurance that 1,650 affordable housing units would be built. And now we're hearing that it's going to be half of that.

I would not be the one to be able to speak to that specifically. So I would recommend either additional staff or the applicant. I would say the assurance is based on a percentage of units built. So it's that number that you mentioned is based on 22,000 units. But if they build less than that, then the the percentage is still the same of the number of units that would be affordable.

So it's still just an entitlement. They're entitled to build that. You know, I I just earlier I talked about affordable housing that Chattam Park was generating from the uh the from the Chattam County Advisory Committee and I've got 328 plus I forget the number 88. So we're over 470 right now. 470. And that's 7 7% divided by 477 is 6,814 units built. So we're right on target right now so far. 7 and a half% but seven and a half.

I guess your point is that they're not required to build 22,000 residential units, which is correct, but it's confusing. But if they do build that many, seven or however many they build, seven and a half% are required to meet the affordable housing. We're not fragile for them to build a certain number of homes or anyone any develop. It's confusing. Thank you for the clarification, sir.

Um, so at this time we can answer any more questions that you have. We can go through the staff analysis in more detail to go through uh each of the changes that have been made between the fifth and sixth submitt. Um, we're here to answer any questions and the applicants here to answer any questions that you have as well. Miss Thompson, can you tell us something about the financial impact analysis? Has one been completed? Yes, ma'am. Was one completed? Correct.

Okay. you can you help explain I'm concerned about a couple things. One is roads, transportation. We had a bunch of comments online and we had some citizens concerned citizens tonight talk about transportation and also storm water. Can you address those two issues? What Chattam Park has agreed to do for both of those?

The uh small area plan shows the conceptual locations of the major roads and that is based on the traffic model which was reviewed by the town and DOT and RK. Is there a way we can get it on the screen? The the traffic model is uh you have to have like specific software. Okay. for that. That's a model. Yeah.

And again, it Yes. Again, it's not uh set in stone. We're still uh rewriting the comprehensive transportation plan. So, the goal is that they will mirror each other and there was a lot of planning that went involve that were was involved in the traffic model review. Um and at this time that is the direction that staff and DOT and RK&NK agrees for the major dwarf their their affairs in the south village. Anything beyond that is going to be updated based on traffic model updates and traffic impact analysis. So, I explained that at another meeting that when you get into that kind of detail, um that's when you start knowing what's required such as stop lights, stop signs, turn lanes,

details. Yeah, we're we're not at that level yet. And then storm water.

Storm water is based on what their element requires. Um it's a 10 10 year 24-hour storm event. And again, that's an entitlement that they were uh approved with. we cannot make we cannot change that. Now there are conversations we can have with the applicant and updating the elements as I explained. Um, so we can talk about that. But, uh, in regards to that, the storm water element, that's what their requirement is. Um, from what I understand, the all of their SCMs didn't have any issues with any of the storms that we've had and they've there there there are no public health safety concerns at this time as staff regarding storm water.

Thank you. So just to add on the transportation piece, uh as a result of the review that RK&NK did, um it was identified that one missing piece of that was a a no build to compare to the the model that they presented. Um so that is something that Chatter Park has agreed to do. Um and this is part of the next steps. We will be reviewing a no build and that will allow us to better assess existing roads the impacts to exist existing roads from the development. So that is that was our way to kind of address those concerns about impacts to town downtown. I think the whole board agrees that that traffic circle downtown needs to be honored and nurtured so that it doesn't become a parking lot there at 5:00 at night or 8:00 in the morning. So anything that you know that's is just a suggestion make sure that everything is have ongoing conversations with DOT.

Okay. Once a month about that. Okay. Thank you. Do you all know what a no builder is? No. Can you explain no builders? So the model predicts traffic volume on roadways

based on the land use that they are proposing. Um the no build would be evaluating it more it's more to evaluate existing roads um in a situation where they do not build. So you can really judge the impact of that development on the existing roads. So they will again use use land use uh projections for other developments but not Chattam Park. So we can really attribute impacts on existing roads specifically to Chattam Park. A no build analysis looks at a future tries to model a future in which the developer does not build or do does not build. developer does not build. So what would the circle look like with Chattam Park built out versus not. Okay. So that that's in other words trying to project that kind of ambient growth outside of not notwithstand whatever shadow park does. Um

I'm going to further elaborate on the storm water piece um from the safety standpoint as well as flood plane protections. One of the items is the larger de need to have the review of a flood study for overall and then they can actually respond to if there is an actual conflict with the storms not just looking at just the SEM but as the sites themselves the downstream clovers have to be assessed and that includes if they impact the downstream flood planes there's permitting piece with FEMA and the state we're going to look that same process in house um that is another item And it's not just the control measures. There's several other pieces that can look like. We're going to do that in house.

Well, we'll look at their their reviews, their models that they're going to bring in. We'll look at their models and then we'll still use RK and K for a portion of those, but I've got the background for reviewing some of the the FEMA models for the LOMAC systems and the Lar Clomar as well as the SSC's for the state. So, um we're going to have two pieces to that, not just keep just one review, but there'll be both. I was very encouraged to hear that we were acquiring your sp your skills and expertise. Appreciate that. And I think the do two new commissioners will also be very excited to learn more about your storm water expertise. I believe there's a plan for me to do a presentation on storm water here very soon.

Very good. And then um I think one of the items was the storm water specifications will also be updated fairly soon as well as well as some some outline of items that need to be checked going forward. So that will actually be a positive as well for this. Thank you. In reference to the storm ward, I think all the commissioners would be very interested in hearing that even though we're moving off the board, I would too. So absolutely. But basically uh I know Chattam Park will be doing the storm water and that so how often will they report back and you review what they have determined is going on.

So overall there should be a flood study for the development all Chattam Park pieces so that every time they submit a plan and change it better be updated to match it. So you there's no point putting something in a model that's not accurate as well as as accurate as it can be. Sorry. So on the transportation piece uh again if we could dwell there for a moment more um I was not able to see uh where was there a report from RK and K's independent review

they had a recommendation for next steps so uh in in general the large scale um uh roadway network that's proposed in the small area plan is is good. They went through all of the inputs in that model and the outputs. Uh there they they did recommend zooming in on some segments. And so that's a step for kind of the next step step uh section design plan. And then they also brought up the the fact that there was not a no build model to compare. So th that that was the result of that review. So those next steps are are noted I think in this I've read so much stuff over the weekend. I think it was in the staff memo but I don't think that was in the SAP the next steps from RK and K.

Yeah they they were we updated that. It's it is in the SAP. It's in the staff analysis. Right. It's in static memo.

Correct. And so, you know, one of my concerns here throughout is because we're rushing so hard is that these things that we're taking in this conversation as givens, uh, 20 40 years from now, it will not appear in the actual legislative approved document. The memo is not legislative policy. Um, so, you know, I think that concern also remains. I think it's a good example of of how we can pause and slow down. So, I'm going to take the liberty right now of of suggesting that we table this definitely until January um because it's it's a great example. You know, we just we um we have good intentions. We have a deeper understanding of what uh the Chattam Park investors have have agreed. Staff have made tremendous headway. I acknowledge tremendous headway in negotiating with the developer

and I'm concerned that it's not documented properly. I apologize, but the items for the transportation are actually required because they've been given those as comments. So, they're required at this point. Th those comments for the transportation are now required because they're actually in writing that they would be required to do that and they have agreed to it. I understand but it's not in the document now and and I'm sorry that you you it is document it's required. It said that it's required in the document but is the RKK analysis in the document?

The analysis has to be done for each section. So it's going to change. It wouldn't be one standard. It has to be for each section as it was a review of work

and then a requirement set that they're providing now with the no bill which is essentially before they started their development that is required now as part of this going forward every single step going forward. Understood. Um the other example of that was the financial impact analysis which uh despite staff's assurances that it was complete. It is factually incomplete when it doesn't have both sides of the ledger. Um, and um, I I understand staff's reasons for not wanting the pond analysis explicit in the uh, the SAP because that would imply that that there was some kind of uh, vesting of uh, those maps and and I understand these are hard-fought negotiations, but it it is intriguing that um for example, the pond parkland suitability review found that over 120 acres of the total 400 acre 450 acre uh total of parkland offered was were found to be largely unusable. Little things like that I just um it hasn't filled me with confidence as I've gone through this document. One item that can be done especially for the financial analysis piece is to outline some specifications for how they submit it and we actually have a spec written on which they have to submit in the list which is would be a spec update not part of this piece and that would be something that this actually allows as well on that thing.

So that would be it's a very creative suggestion. It's a constructive suggestion. Thank you. So maybe some of this is we need to outline a list of specs from our side to help that going forward. Especially like I'm going to do with the storm water. We do the same thing in some of the other areas and then have you in that process. So we're we're just starting a new relationship, right? And I apologize that there's a lot of things that you aren't aware of. For example, the master plan says explicitly there should be 168 police officers. There's expenses that go along with that. that is in the section of the master plan that addresses the financial impact analysis and that table was added to the small area plan future staffing

but but it's not in the financial impact analysis my understanding it it's submitted as part of the financial impact analysis it is part of the requirement but it's in the small area plan in the public facilities chapter okay but it's not in the financial impact analysis we a financial impact analysis would give us both sides of the leisure and I I'm I'm not the first to observe this. I've had several uh one person is a finance officer with a large very large corporation. Um you know so um

again I think either additional staff or the applicant could speak towards that. Neither one of us reviewed the financial impact analysis.

Let me ask. So staff has has requested that we have the additional um ask in the um sorry I'm trying to get to the right page. So under the annual updates we have asked for a fiscal impact analysis to be submitted every year that covers the future five years. The issue with a fiscal impact analysis that covers the entire small area plan, it's too far out. That information is not useful to us. There are too many variables that can change. We will not use that information to make our judgments. So, this is much more helpful to us. Sorry. This is much more helpful to us having an annual update that will give us five-year lookout. That is what we're doing when we're doing our budgeting process. we looking 10, 15, 20 years out, that's not um how we're doing our budgeting.

If you if you tried to price the the cost of a police officer or even a police department five years ago, you'd be dead wrong today. Understood.

So having a 30-year outlook and demanding a 30 out year outlook just isn't useful for financial planning. Five-year outlook is most certainly and we'll have that every single year as a tool that we can use. So, I understand that from staff perspective that's not valuable. But as a governing board member, what I'm I feel like I'm being asked to do is give approval to a 5,000 acre project of some number of residential units yet to be determined. And everything I've read in the past three years tells me that if that is done in a sprawling fashion, we will guarantee tax hikes for residents in future. If it is done more compactly with the density of a mixeduse and multi-story, then the likelihood of those tax increases is much less. This is why I've been wanting to have a 30-year projection, even as full of caveats as it would be, because it would give us some some deeper understanding of that dynamic

and and in staff's opinion that it's 30 years that that data is just not useful there. Again, to me, that's too many caveats to be providing us with useful information. So, um, if you're listing, I mean, I don't and I don't even think that you could cover necessarily all the things that in 30 years the town is going to be impacted by. So, again, doing some getting a five-year projection every year, that's going to help us in my opinion much more.

Yep. Plus, the town needs 30 years from now are largely going to be dependent upon who sits at this board because it's going to be up to you all to decide what your how many police officers you want, where you want fire stations, if you're willing to spend the money on eight fire stations instead of five. I mean, a lot of that's a lot of decisions way down the road that we can't make today or even try to guesstimate. You guys have been standing a long time. Are you Oh, good. You okay? Yeah. Okay. They've been training for this.

I try not to speak unless I have something to say, but I really feel like we've been rushed on all of this. I feel like we've heard from everybody in town that this is being rushed, that we should take a beat. I've asked for redline documents. If I'm not mistaken, Chattam Park paid something like $750,000 to submit this small area plan and we got the paperwork Thursday after close of business. Fundamentally, I don't understand that. And I'm going to second John's motion to table this until December January. Fair enough. Thank you. Is there

We should respect the process. If this has changed so drastically, send it back to the planning board. Let them look at it. Let's hear their comments and let's talk again. I think that's what we do. I think that'd be good planning. All I have feel like we've had a rug to clarify. All the changes that were made in this last submitt is specifically based on the feedback that the applicant received. So the super grateful that they've been like accommodating and and I know concessions have been made on all sides but I see question marks in every eyeball in this room on the board in the audience. I don't think anything has had a chance to clarify

and I understand I just wanted to clarify that make any by the time that it goes to the planning board the applicant not make any changes to the um plan other than what the town asks them to. Great. That's what we did. We understand that and I recognize the concession. That's why it back to the planning board.

Well, we went over all of the um comments and questions with the planning board. Everything that's in this plan, this version of the plan, just to clarify, I understand what you're saying, needing more time, but everything that's in this plan was what we did go over that with the planning board chapter by chapter. Thompson, I'm going to beg to differ. I was in that planning board meeting and what I heard you do was you went over your list of concerns that you were working with them on that you were negotiating with them on and that was a September dated document. We have an a November dated document. Now

I updated every meeting that we had updated. I believe that the staff analysis and it is a different document now document and we've done this way too much in the past even including during board governing sessions rewriting documents for this applicant and it's just too much. It's not reasonable. I was just clarifying

this rushed policym and you know I really am tremendously heartened that that this legislative question has been resolved because that was that was hair on fire for me. That was like I'm going to walk out of the room if this gets passed without legislative authority to the board. You understand? I mean, this is really critical stuff. So, to know that we now have that power and that future boards, these people that I haven't even met 30, 40 years from now, will have that power. That's greatly reassuring to me and I'm still concerned. So, I'm going to call the question. We've had a a motion and a second. Can you make it as a motion? I think it was a suggestion.

I will make the motion that we table this definitely until the January board meeting. I would like us to have a workshop with the two new commissioners in December. Your motion? Yes, that's my motion. Able until January. Okay. Discussion. I would like us to have a workshop with the two new uh commissioners in our December meeting. Uh and

here's what I have an objection to. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Commissioner Bonnets. Uh, I'm I'm looking at individuals on this board that have lived and breathed Chattam Park for the last four terms. Four terms, five. I respect what you're saying, but I also respect the breadth of experience that these two commissioners have, and I honor that. And I would respectfully ask that you do the same.

Any other discussion?

All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed say nay. Nay. Amen.

We are the board. We are the sitting We are the sitting board. Let me say that we were dy elected and we are the sitting board and we have the right to make that decision. So we are dy elected again as I said by the public also year after year and so we do have the right to make a decision whether you agree with it or do not agree with it. We are sitting commissioners. We have that right.

I you haven't what are you talking about? I've lived here in this town for six generations. I've been every meeting. I mean, every meeting. I have not missed one meeting. You for 20 years. Order. You've got someone mixed up.

Oh, okay. Okay. Are there discussion or questions for staff? Are you all going to present anything else to us?

Ma'am, we're here to answer any more question that you have. don't have any additional questions, but I certainly like to make a motion. I'd like to make a motion to approve the small area plan as indicated with the revisions by the town staff and the and with the decision or the recommendation of the town staff. Is there a second? Second.

Discussion. Yeah, I have I have one thing to say. Uh there was a memo that was placed by our town attorney addressed to the town board clarifying exactly what we needed to do here and I support what the town attorney said. I also support the hard work that this staff is doing to defend Pittsburgh. This is about a sewer line. It's about a sewer line. It's not about Chattam Park. All around this town, if you if you take Chattam Park, just 10,000 foot view, Chadam County was green when Youngsville and Wake Forest and Holly Springs and Wake County have all been developed. What is Why is it this county so green right now? It's because we didn't have a sewer and now all of a sudden former boards said, "Yes, let's get sewer in here." And this is what we have because of that. Sewer becomes wastewater treatment plants become density and growth. And if you look at what the Chattam County commissioners have asked us to do, Chattam County Commissioners said we need to focus on the future. They have provided us manufacturing plant sites and one specific thing they said to us the board was make sure that you concentrate density in Pittsboro and Silus City and up 15501. That's exactly what we're doing. This is a planned

community. Their product is very good. They have provided the town, my gosh, what have they provided the town? Uh, a brand new, beautiful $26 million YMCA. I'm I'm not here to defend Chattam Park, but you have to realize what they have given this town. They have given us affordable housing. They're giving us parks. How many acres of parks do they have in the south village? One more time. An average of around 600 land and 600 acres of open space.

1,200. Yeah. Central Park in New York is 840 acres. A beautiful gem of a park and Chattam Park is giving us more than that.

They're giving us an $8 million soccer park right up the street from here. We are getting so much from this this developer. We're getting Chattam Parkway is now being extended around the downtown area so that the traffic isn't congested in our circle. We have we have a this is a development granted but I'd rather have this development. Okay. Thank you. I'd rather have this development with with its density and its problems because they're they're planning it correctly. And I'll I'll say no more. I apologize for one of my resident citizens

discussion. I don't have any further discussion and I do apologize for being a little out of control. All right, I'll call for a voice vote. Mayor Pen Baldwin, yay. Commissioner Vance, nay. Commissioner Frell, yay. Commissioner Foley, yay. Commissioner Vos, nay. Motion passes. I'll call for uh recess to 8:50. [Music]

[Music] Welcome back. All right. Yeah. Probably the gavl. Um, all right. We're going to come back with a presentation from Hobs Architects on the police department pre-esign. and team. All right, different subject. Okay. Um, it's nice to be with you tonight. Hey, man.

Good evening. I'm here with Garrett Frank of Frank Land Design. uh you know Siobhan Moore, architect uh my business partner, and we're here to talk about uh the new uh or study for the uh Pittsburgh Police Station. We were hired to look at uh the current facility um and assess its ability for renovation uh as well as uh an addition to the building that would take um uh analyze the needs for about the next uh 15 to 20 years. And we work closely with Chief Johnson and his staff to um program uh space program the building uh understand what works currently, what doesn't. Uh we analyze the site. Uh uh Garrett's going to tell you about the site opportunities we have. And uh we have um some floor plans to show you, some building imagery, and a um uh preliminary cost estimate for construction. So that being said, um next slide. Am I am I controlling the slides? Okay, here we go. Um what you see here um it's a little washed out but on the on the left side of the screen you see the traffic circle with the courthouse. Um about a mile a little over a mile to the east is the current station. Uh it's on East Street. Uh and it actually the site actually goes all the way back to Thompson Street and is bordered by MLK Jr. Drive on the east side. So very good central location. It's the current the current uh facility is there. Um good access to in town. Uh good access to uh to 64. So we think

it's a viable location. Um and the and with the amount of land the addition uh works well and you actually have some space for another future building at some point should that ever need to be realized. Uh this this view just will take you uh uh some pictures of the existing facility. This is a view from East Street. Um it's the I guess it's the former CPNL building. Then it was trans uh it was renovated for the town hall and the uh previous town hall and the police department. And since then uh the police department since town hall has moved out. There's been some renovations and uh space reconfigurations that have helped, but we're just they're not where they need to be with the the upcoming growth uh up uh that that we've just heard about projected. So, next slide, please. Um there we go. Uh quick sort of conceptual site plan. You can see Thompson Street uh to the north, East Street to the south, MLK Drive to the east. The pink building is the existing building. Uh the addition, you can see that area to the east is what we're proposing. It fits well within uh uh the site site circulation with the uh staff uh uh parking in the rear on the north and fleet parking to the north that remains intact. The loop drive around to East Street remains intact. Public parking on the south side remains intact. So it works well for uh what we're proposing. The existing buildings about 5,000 square feet. Um the footprint of the additions around 6100 square f feet, but we're proposing it as a two-story building which I'll tell you about. So um you can see the the whole site though

goes all the way back to Thompson Street. So the big big site uh works well for this proposed addition. Next slide. Um and where that addition is going is right where we're where these images show. This is the east end of the existing building. Um the existing building is a is a brick structure. Uh has recently uh had a new roof. So that's good news. Um there are some uh maintenance items on the building envelopes. I think some leaky windows or some glass block that needs to have some leaks around it that need to be addressed. Those have been captured in the uh in the cost estimate. But uh this is this is the view. The bottom two are views um from uh MLK Drive, but it's a wooded area. Um what we're talking about doing is is tacking on a new lobby and twotory addition to this area of the building. Next slide. Um more of the existing building. Um the rear you can see the previous on the top right previous uh drive-thru for water payments. um that could be repurposed for u you know evidence gathering of vehicles, things like that. The uh rear fleet parking would remain in intact. Uh there's quite a bit of space that would remain. Uh the existing uh generator we're proposing to keep. We've worked there's a transformer in the back. The site plan works its way around that. So, we've tried to leave as much intact as possible in order to keep cost down and minimize the site disturbance. And we think we've largely been successful doing that. Uh, next slide. This is a proposed new site plan uh that Garrett can tell you about and then I'll

come back and show you some building imagery after the floor.

Yeah. So, just to kind of uh I mean I think I think uh Taylor did a good job orient you just to give you kind of a little bit more about the property. Uh it kind of naturally uh falls from Thompson down to East Street. So, you know, essentially, um, putting a new building in kind of a an existing slope area as well as working around a lot of the existing, uh, utilities uh, is going to be somewhat of a challenge. There are some generators and transformers on the back side that, uh, you know, would be nice not to, you know, spend our money on trying to move those things. So, uh, right above the the the newest edition, uh, we show those those items. transformer and generator uh to to be maintained as well as some parking along that rear side. Um we're not we're proposing not to do anything with that northern uh the north south northern parking lot. Uh currently it's uh serves uh I think about 24 spaces as well as some storage in the rear. Um and then currently you're all familiar with it. It's a one-way loop around. Uh, you know, we included in the study, uh, as part of, you know, just the addition, we would maintain that one-way loop around, but also gave you some information on if you wanted to improve that access from East Street. Uh, you know, what that cost might look like to make two-way circulation around the entire building. Uh so as part of like the expansion and base uh package um to keep cost low, as Taylor mentioned, we'd just be doing some renovations uh on the front and the rear just to tie the buildings into grade and try to maintain as much of the

existing parking, the existing trees and the existing infrastructure as much as possible. But uh we realize there's some improvements such as uh a dumpster enclosure uh that might work well uh behind the existing building as well as you know adapting the site uh for two-way circulation uh from that front entry drive off of East Street. Um and I think o overall uh it works well while also trying to respect you know some of the site constraints and topography and and natural resources. We also, just for reference, uh, for for future, as Taylor mentioned, you kind of a 20-year buildout plan. Uh, it's hard for me to see here, but there's, I think it's a 70 by 80. Can you zoom in?

7,800

7,800 square foot expansion. That would just be a 7800 uh square foot floor plate. So, it could be two stories. Uh but just showing that the site could support additional development uh in the future and that you know there's uh ample room for existing or for for proposed and future expansion for storm water control uh and and there's also you know much of the site um you know to the north kind of left undeveloped. It's kind of the harder you know nugget of the site to develop. So you know that one's kind of preserved uh for what it is. Um, but there there's there's a lot of opportunity for the site as the town grows, but I think we've we've done a a good job on proposing an expansion uh that fits this site well. Um, and you know, accomplishes the goals of of the the study for, you know, programming a new police office space and be happy to answer any kind of site related questions you have about and cost as needed.

Yeah, just for clarity, the Obviously the um on the as you come in off East Street that that entrance that it's sort of hard to see that rectangle to the left is the future building should it ever need to be realized and there's some parking dotted but the actual uh addition we're talking about is to the to the right to the right of the lighter blue existing. So, so the proposed Yeah. expansion for this this soon to be project or five less than five year from now project is on the right but a future building is shown on the left should there be a need in 15 or 20 years. That's the Bojangles, right?

Yeah. Yeah. For the for the Bojangles. Yeah. We had aeration with the drive-thru, but we just Dunkin Donuts. Yeah. I didn't just make it. I didn't realize there was enough land on the left side of the driveway. I thought it was a deep enough slopes there was too. So, that's good to know. I think along the frontage is good, but I think you're right. Like there's not a lot that can be captured on the north side. On the north side, I think your your storm water works well as you just basically you have a you have a hillside and you build a dam out further and you kind of make your own storm water retention pond. But the most and easily most easily developed land is along East Street.

Good. Is that storm water basin existing? So there's I guess there's kind of a history uh there's there's um I think it was like a a pilot project maybe with some future town engineering when Fred was here. He he did I think there's some and I haven't studied it in depth or you know reached out to Ben or anything to see if there's any drawings on or anything but there is a relic storm water device or pilot storm water device to the south proposed expansion. Mhm.

So if you see the large tree like in front of the proposed expansion, it's a proposed tree, but on the other side of the drive valve there, there's a I'm guessing it's a sand filter or bio retention, which is basically a you know, a bed of sand with an under drain uh that a lot of a large portion of that right hand side of the site drains to. Um and our plan would be to to check what kind of uh benefits it would have on development. I just think a study to to look at that would be, you know, quite in depth just to analyze what's there. And so it's definitely there and it's definitely providing some benefit from it.

It works. Um if Johnny u from public works uh he retired five years ago. Johnny Mr. Johnny John not John Petit u I thought his name was um anyway I'll try and remember but the same it was built in house. Yeah, the pipe actually runs all the way down to the Fred Royal, but the the storm water grate that catches water. It puts it in a pipe and goes under the driveway. You can actually see that pipe going to the the catch basin. So,

next slide, please. So, with these site constraints that um Garrett ran through, um we'll show you the set the floor plan in just a moment. Um but we worked through the programming and what was needed by the police department in a relatively short time frame and then kind of beyond that. And so what you see here today in these four plans um should benefit the police department for the next 10 years. Um there's then the thought that the second floor plan would benefit them into the future beyond that 15 to 20 years. Um but from this floor plan that you see in front of you today, this to the left hand side is the existing building. So that's what you're most familiar with. Um and then on the right hand side is the addition. Um and we looked at the different uses that were needed and what made the most sense to be in the existing building given the current entrances uh that the building has and then what made the most sense to be in the new addition. And so on the left hand side we have a um we're taking advantage of what is currently the front entrance and that becomes an exterior entrance into the gymnasium so officers can come and go without having to enter into the building through the other entrances um and utilize the gymnasium. There are locker rooms in that vicinity then that take advantage of existing plumbing. Um there's a number of offices for detectives. Um there's a whole evidence processing procedure that would happen off the rear entrance. This is all on the left hand side of the plant in the existing building. And then some leadership offices toward the front new

proposed um public entrance. And so from East Street with within the new addition, we have a new public lobby space that would be act as a connector between the twotory edition that's on the right and the existing building that's on the left. So the public could access the police department through this lobby. It's secure. there's no connection then or ability to go into other parts of the building from that lobby without going through a very secure um entrance door. Um there is a public restroom in that lobby. There's a receptionist space um and also there's a way for staff to come in through the back um also. So, we envision there's staff parking that currently exists. Um, that would remain staff parking to the north and then there could be staff parking for the gymnasium up front. Then public parking would be up front as well. So then in the addition um we have more the parole officers um their private offices, some um shared workspaces. There's a large break room that would be shared by all the officers. There's two anti rooms for um taking police reports. Um and then toward the front kind of more public facing space is a larger uh conference my conference training room with full partition between them. So it can be opened up to be a larger space or smaller space um depending on the need. Um, obviously with a twostory building, there are also things um like stairs and an elevator that are planned for. Um, and so existing building footprint is roughly 5,000 square ft. The addition on the first floor is about 6,100 square

ft. You go to the next slide, the second floor would is proposed at this time to be a shell space. So you'd be building you'd be investing in building the twotory edition at this time, but it's there's never a better time to build up than when you first start. So um given some of the site parameters we're trying to work within keeping the site utilities that are in place on the north side keeping site circulation on the south side um there are opportunities of course to grow horizontally but growing vertically allows you to keep some of those um existing um infrastructure in place. So the you see the second floor plan at least for now um this is proposed to be a shell space and um but as the need arises it can be upfit into various offices and other spaces the police department

feel like my question is so obvious it must be dumb but where's the lockup where where do I get to sleep you have your own sale Yeah, [Music] but then this this second floor would be the developed space beyond uh 10 years. So it's it's cheaper. It's more expensive than a one-story building, but it's the cheapest space you can get and buy yourself some opportunity.

Um okay, so that's the space layout. We've done some preliminary uh 3D conceptual imagining of of you know what it may look like. We'll just run through those to give you a sense of scale what it might look like from different uh views from East Street from uh MLK and from the rear of the site. So next slide.

Okay. So your existing entrance the staff entry into the new gym space workout space is to your left. That's that is the door that everyone is used to going in. So that becomes a staff entry. U there's you can see the one-story building laying out in the and the addition the twotory edition is in the background. Um we're talking about uh uh resurfacing some of the existing bricks for accent uh uh materials that signify sort of entrance and tying the two buildings together. This is proposed as the same brick as the existing building to tie it in contextually but trying to upgrade the appearance to tie these buildings together for for a more maybe progressive modern appearance. Next slide please. Uh here will be the entrance to the new public lobby. The existing building to the left twotory building to the right. Um this is the the uh public entry uh but it's into a secure space like Siobhan said and from there the who the people are either directed uh to you know to meetings or that public space in the front where the conference and training is located. Next slide. View from East Street of just the uh of the addition. Um you're looking at the space be behind behind that wall is the conference and training room. You can see the public entrance to the left which you can see it's it's it's quite a bit bigger than the existing building but it it it it's capturing you know space needs for the next 15 to 20 years. Next slide. Uh this is a view from MLK. This is the public entry uh that's existing now. This you you probably pulled into this

to this uh driveway before. Uh those pine trees are obviously where that's the east end of the building. So you can see we're filling we're filling that sort of uh spot on this east end. Uh and as work as we work our way down MLK. Next slide, please. slide. Yeah. Yeah. Here's a view from MLK. Um, you know, a combination of, you know, an accent material, maybe a metal panel, some areas for signage. Uh, signs everyone know, you know, as we grow have have been clearly identified as police station. Uh, next slide. This we're getting back to the staff entry area. Um you see the rear of the building there's an outdoor courtyard there or not a courtyard but there's outdoor space for outdoor seating uh you know there there could be um you know sort of a more enhanced landscape area back there but a place where officers could on a nice day go out have lunch things of that nature. Next slide. Here's the staff entry uh side. This is looking basically from the fleet parking. Um, two staff entries in the back. These are all secure entries. Public would not be able to come in this side. Um, but you can see sort of this the you know the one story the onetory entry lobby giving way to twotory. Uh, the bottom floor will be developed. The top would be a shell until future future upfit. I believe that's the last slide. We talk about next slide. Well, one more slide, one more shot of the uh and here's here's a good view. Here's here's the

sort of aerial view of of the two the whole facility. So, um I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I think it lays out very well with the existing site circulation, vehicular circulation, and usable land we have. Um, I think the existing building is a great candidate for the renov for renovation. We we love renovation projects. Kind of considered the ultimate form of recycling. You don't We've got a good building there that we can do new systems, new finishes, things of that nature. Tighten up the building envelope. This new building has a south facing um orientation. It's perfect place for solar panels on the roof. Should we should that be a goal for this project? Um, but yeah, you can see staff in the back, public in the front, existing loop, future future development opportunity to the east at the top left of of the site. So, um, all in all, uh, really, uh, good use of the site for what for what we need and, um, Chief Johnson was was great to work with to help us sort of figure out what was needed in this building. So, that being said, next slide. What does it cost? So, we've worked with a a previous slide. Yeah. Where did it go? Can you zoom out a little bit? There you go. Um we work with a cost estimator uh worked with for 15 years very have high confidence in and his ability to even early on sort of sketch out the these are these are not hard

numbers but I think it does give you a sense of really where what this is a this is in this market today's numbers. So that's that's what he was charged with doing. So, the renovation of the plus or - 5,000 ft², that's about 1.285 and an estimated construction costs. Um, with the addition being about four, you know, 4.4 4.5 million. Site work is estimated about 800,000. Uh, you can see the totals there. Um, if uh if we do uh want to bid the expanded parking area that Garrett talked about as an alternate, that would be an additional 260 plus or minus,000. Uh some of these items at the bottom are um sort of details, but they're important details. Um there is a design, you know, this is an early conceptual pre-esigned study. So there's a 7% uh estimate contingency built into this. Um there's no construction none of the soft costs are shown here that the projects usually carry um such as uh construction contingency um furniture things of that nature. So this is just sort of hard construction numbers. um does not include cost escalation for bidding this at a future date which we're typically seeing you know uh adding about 2% a quarter right now. So yeah, so you know that's not these are today's numbers. Again we do have a little bit of earthwork contingency resto included. Um we're assuming the emergency generator is good um and adequate for the addition. If it's not, there would need to be an additional generator. Um, like I said,

soft cost appliances, furnishers, we we're not proposing this as a sprinkle building at this point. So, um, I think the the goal of this is not to say we know exactly how much it cost, but this is a good estimate to sort of let you understand, you know, the scope of what you're dealing with based on what you we've identified as the needs. So um that assumption on the generator is that based on its current specs? I is right now it's just I mean it's a big generator. We do we have not had an electrical engineer as part of this study. That would be something that needs to be addressed. Um

but it that would be what we need to do is look at the specs. But it's it's not there's not a new generator in this budget. I think it's only eight years old. So, probably pick it up, move it to another building the same size. Um, so that's a summary of the report. Um, and we're happy to answer any questions you may have, but uh it's a pleasure to work with Chief Johnson. It's a good project. So, open the floor for questions. If there's none, that's fine, too. What is the cost per square foot on the addition?

Uh, good question. Things let me on the addition. Uh, it's I got it right. Um, the addition and this uh includes the site about $458 a square foot. renovation came in at around $242 a square foot.

But the uh that 458 again is building and work just building. That's that's expensive, but it's what we're seeing. It's just kind of one rate just a really big renovation on that existing building.

We tried a good question. We we uh worked hard to keep as many walls as possible. It does include new systems, new HVAC, new finishes. Um uh so it be completely new finishes, new ceilings. Um because we are re we we're reconfiguring space, but we try to keep as many walls as possible. And like I said, there are some uh building envelope uh needs that are we just have an allowance in there for that. But, uh, I would say, yeah, it's a heavy renovation just just to bring it up to, uh, what's needed and to fit with the addition, right? It's older. It's old building.

Yeah. Yeah. It's an old building and but it's a good building. But if if you're into the renovation, I think it's it's the time to do it to to really set it for the future. I think it it's it's a great candidate for a good renovation. Any other questions? Thank you. Is there a possibility to build the new building and then do minimal renovation to the existing building to then do some more renovation work later on? Let's say if the budget's tight and that's

sure that that I mean you could you could build the except for there's some offices on the east end that would need to be reconfigured for that uh connection to the addition. So there the answer is yes the this qu we would just try to keep the scope of work as minimal as possible in the existing. So theoretically, you could build a whole new building and conceptually do nothing to the existing building except what you had to at time. Um

I think what I would say is that there would be some programmatic yeah um there would be be some missing programmatic pieces then you know identifying and when where you'd have the gymnasium you know we've actually kind of carved out a bigger space within the existing space to make that work. But you know if you just acknowledge that those are programmatic pieces that will come in a later time then yeah they can be separated. That's a good point. you just you would sacrifice some of the space needs that were identified but they would just come at a later date. Thank you. Okay. Thank you for that work. That's okay. Thank you. Good night.

All right. Up next, it's a financial discussion.

I did hear some noises when they showed the price. That's good or bad. All right, that's the answer.

Pain, I believe. I thought they were. I think that I think I can assert that that was a unanimous.

Good evening, mayor and commissioners. I'm here tonight to discuss upcoming capital projects that we just talked about and projections of what the town can afford to handle in terms of debt service under the existing tax rate and different levels of potential tax adjustments. Staff is seeking feedback on the direction the board wants us to take in the upcoming RFQ for town hall and the police station expansion. To give a little background, the town currently leases space for the administrative offices at Main Street Station. The lease for the majority of that space will expire on January 31st, 2029. So that is our time cruise rate for town hall. We need to build a town hall to accommodate staff growth over the next 10 to 20 years and do an expansion of the police station. Additionally, we need to be prepared to contribute towards the construction of fire stations and parks. We worked with our financial advisor Stavenport to provide the discussion materials. Um, with the assumption that the current tax levy is covering current operating expenses, we then wanted to look at the future expected growth in the tax. So the information on slides five and six show the projection of the tax levy at a growth rate of 8% and 5%. With the 8% uh yep uh yeah so the 8% growth is what we are saying is sort of the average growth rate and the 5% is a slightly more conservative growth rate. So these charts show that 30% of that that growth in the tax levy, it shows in column F what that 30% would be and that is what we would be dedicating to covering the capital projects debt service. The remaining 70% of growth in

the tax levy would cover increases in our operating costs. Slide 10 shows our projected costs of the new town hall, the police station expansion, and the town share of a new fire station, $23 million. So, this is what we need that 30% of the growth um in the tax levy to cover for um for the debt. So, so on the next slide, with a projected eight 8% growth in tax levy and an expected debt capacity needed of 23 million, we would need to adjust the tax rate upwards by 8.35 cents to cover that need. If we did not want to make any adjustments in the tax rate, then we are projecting that we could afford a debt capacity of almost 15.8 million. So, we would not be able to cover the total extent of those projects that we are projecting. But we still would be able to cover 15.8 million with a projected 5% growth in tax loan and the same expected tax debt capacity of 23 million. Um on the next slide, we would need to adjust the tax rate upwards by 5 cents. If we did not want to make any adjustments, then we are projecting that we could afford a debt capacity of just over 10 million. The appendix slides give more detail on the calculations for the affordability analysis. And if you have any questions, please let me know. I just didn't want to go into a lot of detail on the charts. Um then we did um we put together a few slides to show the um impact of a tax adjustment on the on an average home value of 375,000. So that current tax bill is $3,900

with $2,250 being for the county and the remaining 1,650 being for the town. An increase of 3.35 would be an additional $12563 per year for that house and an increase of 5 would be an additional $187.50 per year. So on the next slide, we wanted to show what I've talked about is the at the different rates of growth in our projected tax levy and then at um the zero like no cent increase, 3.35 cent increase and 5-cent increase what we are projecting that we could cover for the projects that we have coming up. So if we did not want to wanted to be more conservative and we don't want to do any um tax rate, we are saying we could only do a partial town hall um build which would essentially potentially mean that we don't build the um the section for um holding board meetings that we just build the other side that's the twotory section that was previously presented um at a prior meeting and then we wouldn't be able to sign any of the other projects. Um so these are the projections that that we have done and obviously we will these will be reassessed every year but this is where we stand right now that looking at these capital projects we need to know if if how we should be doing our RFQ if we should be doing it for partial um construction of a town hall or if there's any way that we think that we might be able to do a tax increase and we can cover um uh the actual bill that we are projecting that we need for town hall and for the police.

Can you show the tax rate over time too? Do we have

Oh yeah. So on the next slide um so this is the sort of last uh 10 10 12 years of our tax property tax rates. Um, so the last time we the last time the board voted to increase the tax rate um was in 1314. Um, and then the only other time that we adjusted it was to round it up. Um, and obviously the years that there were revals are marked with an asteris and then the the last time there was a reval prior to the 134 year was uh 2009. So then we had a much larger gap between our revalues. And then the next slide shows the um the increase in our um value of a penny. And these are the slides that I also included in our budget presentations.

Can you can you explain the the value of a penny please? Yes. So this is what an increase of one penny would would get bring in tax revenue. So the one penny increase to our ad valorum rate. Yes. Thank you. Um so at the current rate for the two 2025 year um you know we were estimating the penny was 170,186. This is effectively showing the value of the growth over time. Yeah. And the growth rates in the in the earlier years were like 1.5%. And now we are um increasing. Yeah.

Can you go back to the color traffic light? Yeah. And so we did add um so on Harry we also have the streetscape. Um so we are anticipating some funding um that might get adopted in the at the federal level but that is still not guaranteed. If that does not come through we will need to come up with additional funding for the streetscape. Um so that's why we put that in here. And can you speak to the timing of this? Is

so right. So town hall obviously we need to move fairly quickly with town hall in terms of um doing the RFQ and then bidding it and doing design and bidding it out so that it can be constructed and completed by at least December of 2028. Um, and then the idea is that we would be doing that we would be doing the RQ at the same time for the police um, sta station expansion. Um, and hopefully get some type of um, benefit by doing those together and potentially designing them together and bidding them together. Um, so those would be that we would need to con do that construction by 2028. the fire station. I think we're expecting 2029. Is that

would be nice. Yes. Um obviously streetscape is sooner. Um and then parks are a constant need and this adjustment is suggested for this for the for the new budget year, right? So I mean this is not like this is not a vote now because you can't vote on this now. Um it would be something that we are anticipating putting into the upcoming budget

start building those funds for one of the appendices it shows the accumulation of the funds. Um and then again this would be something that would be re-evaluated every year and if the and we would assess how many how much do we have in reserve what is it being used for and and then reassess where the tax rate is question can you describe the difference between in layman terms uh conservative assessed value growth versus average assessed value growth and is there anything like exceptional or above average?

Yeah, so yes, we could we could be above average. Um again, not knowing how the developments um go in terms of of building their houses and and bringing in that revenue like it we could be growing even greater than 8%. Which is again why I'm saying we would re-evaluate this every year. But um right now if you look back at the last 5 years our average growth is around 8%. The last couple years have been higher but um I think the um uh if you go back well it's back in the um slide from hold on

you had like a 42% you had a 28. So yeah, so this current sorry, so um so the for the for the current fiscal year um it was obviously we had like the 43% because that was the rebal. Um the year prior was 13% that I'm estimating and the year prior to that was um 19%. Um but then the other years prior to that were a little bit lower, right? So it just it's going to depend on the growth and the development. Um, and so we could be we could be higher, much better off. Yeah.

Like the 10-year average is like 8.9%. But you had one year we had negative growth like negative 1.2%. This is 10 years ago though. Like if you look at the 10ear average, it's like 8 8.9%.

Thank you. Even our average number is a bit conservative, but I think that's the right way to I am also pretty conservative. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you and

yeah. Um so there was uh some discussion what nine months or a year ago about the question of when we might be able to um take on bond debt. Can you speak either one of you speak about that? I think a lot of it depends on the amount that you want to borrow. And I've spoken to colleagues that have done, you know, bonds. And typically the cost to get a bond done, you have to make sure that the the debt that you're taking down is high enough. And I want to say the the smallest bond I've seen for stuff like this is 30 million.

It's a very significant transaction cost. Especially for us because we are not currently rated. Not at all. So, so there would be some additional costs that say get rid if you're looking at city of Sanford like they do bonds obviously more often than we do. They're already they're not having those additional costs. So, we would have those additional costs. Um and then you would have there's the costs to do the bond are more significant and right now we've been advised that that's not um like we can get a pretty good rate from a bank if we were looking today. I mean for this amount um so It's not feasible to do the B.

And um would one or both of you please speak about the prioritization on these two tables because there's an implicit prioritization of the town hall before the police, before the fire, before the streetscape. You did speak about some of that phasing, that timing, but can you elaborate more?

Well, so town hall, I mean, we're going to our our lease will not renew. So, we will be out of space. I mean, we will not have a space at the end of 2028. Um, so and just based on how long it takes to construct something that that needs to be our priority. Um, and then obviously police station, we're just our police are growing and we we need more space. So that's that's also that prioritization. Um and then I think just inherently fire has been on the table as a um sort of with an idea of 2029 that that's when we would be um looking to invest in that

question. Have we discussed any lease option with our landlord to extend it? I know there's some conflict there, but have we asked to have extension on our lease to So, I think we have an extension built in and I don't know if they would agree to it and I also don't know if that's a partnership that we want to continue and I really don't want to say any more than that. Just I know that with this reval

we kept we our revenue our revenue neutral number I think was in the low30s. We kept our tax rate at 44 to add personnel and do the projects projects that we wanted to do last year. Um, I think maybe we need to look at if we can do a partial town hall because it's going to be a hard pill to swallow raise taxes.

I, you know, I'm sorry. I just, that's going to be really tough. Wish we had more levers to pull to get more commercial in the near term. increase our tax rate that way, increase our tax base that way. Um the number of people that I heard talking about the revenue neutral uh last year with last year's budget considerations uh the one person who uh sought out the information and listened to our deliberations um did not continue to press the case because they understood just how many things were juggling and how many departments were actually taking cuts. uh for things that were really really needed. Um so you know I think our our current rate is defensible but there's still a lot of people who are really hurting and um our uh our current population um there are folks who uh an increase would would uh possibly displace them. Um, so

any other feedback? I guess I think you know it's a difficult aspect of growth that the growth the fund the money from the growth comes after the growth that drives the needs for the police department.

So you know we we know it's coming we see it's coming but that rate you know shift or the valuation shift doesn't happen until these services are needed. We saw with the ladder truck we saw it a lot of these things. So, um I think it's we have a level of service that, you know, people are very happy with and we've really promoted and been able to accomplish. Um but I don't know how we maintain that and do these projects and all these things with only an 8% growth, which is fantastic. you know, I think for a town, but um and I'm I'm concerned it's going to cost more money over time if we try and peace meal a lot of these projects or it I know it will cost more money over the time. That's tough decision to make is to do the twotory building with the shell space type of planning, which actually sets us up better for the future. Um but it is a tougher decision today.

Mhm. You know, we wish that somebody would and you know, we wish ourselves in the past would have built the sewer plant for $18 million back. Um but it's hard to figure out how that happens. So, well, we only had like a $3 million year budget. Hardest. Exactly. That's what it was when I joined.

Well, we will obviously keep having these discussions, but this is helpful in terms of knowing um what we need to do for the RFQ. Um and we will be having obviously our budget discussion and then um come you know, April, I will be also presenting you with our draft of the budget. So um and at that time I will have better numbers from um Chad County in terms of their projections on the tax levy for next year. So So what does that look like for the RFQ? Like are we going to do the the projects as is with alternates for I think or

um so I want to say obviously this presentation was put together to suggest what the tough decisions are today so we don't have the impossible decisions tomorrow. Um, which is why the PD was designed with a second floor that we could expand into. And the town hall was designed with probably what, threequarters of a top floor that we would eventually expand into.

Planning standpoint, we made the right to show you what that would look like and what that would cost. Um, in terms of how we move forward with, let's say, if if the idea is no tax increase until we see how the growth is going to affect us later on, um, probably a town hall that that handles what we have now plus some growth. Um, we save the legislative wing for another time and we continue to meet here or elsewhere uh, with the police department. If we can get that number down a little bit, it may make sense to go ahead and build that that addition with the second story. But I think financially obviously it lends itself just doing a one-story expansion knowing that in the future if we were to come back we're going to have to build something else. U because he probably we'll probably be at 45 to 60 police officers in 10 years. And so the design that you were shown is maxed out at that point and then we would need to do something in 10 years and the debt we would still have about 50% of the debt from the building we already built and then having to build something else. That's where these things are going to then start stacking on top of each other um 10 years from now. We will be getting more revenue just so

believe so fire you know we're probably looking at we're hopeful to get a site in the north off of 15501 that's where Daryl and I think we probably should build first um considering what our response times are in that in that part of the world. Um it does not have a review board that looks at the um the architecture. So we could probably do some type of metal building that's not as expensive. Um maybe that costs three four million. Half of which is ours, half of which is the fire departments. Um so we'll probably manage something there. But we have to we'll have to see how that goes. So any thoughts on that approach? Now with that approach probably could get all three of those maybe done maybe.

What approach are you saying? So a partial town hall. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. What uh tax rate

that would be zero and praying for 8%. That's a partial town hall scaled down. Um, which may include when the legislative wing was built five or 10 years from now, hopefully sooner. Um, there would be some additional office that would have to be added. So, that would have to be a design consideration. Uh, on police, you you'd have to go one story knowing that in 10 years you're coming back and building something else. U, and then we got to think about how we would cycle people around. uh cuz the other building have to be torn down very likely and then come back with a larger building where the existing uh building footprint is that's going to cost a considerable amount of money that

it's also possible to engineer and build buildings one story with the plan for addition above could I don't know what that looks like from a construction standpoint on can you be in the building when you're adding a story to it I don't know that about any cost for uh police substations. I don't know if police substations really solve our problem or if we even want them to be honest with you. I mean, their car is a substation, right? Is a mobile office.

I think one thing that's helped our recruiting is actually that we have a police station and not a portion of a building. So, this is also a recruitment tool. U you can't really put a price on that. That's true for town hall as well. Not going to put Chief Griffin on the spot, but as he and I talking, personnel is the issue with fire service. I think right now we are at full staff. Is that correct, Chief?

So So pretty soon you're going to be u busting at the seams or adding CS on top of CS or that's the next that's the next thing to do where we're going is next. That give you enough information.

Do you want to Can you come up? Yeah, please do. Mad at me now. Yeah.

Fire station. If you can do it for three million, I know we talked about it. Um, we got to have fire trucks. If I order a fire truck today is three years. So, that gives us time. He was talking about the, you know, in 2029, that's what it will take before we get staffing just for the one station that we need north. Um, we'll have to have at least 24 more staff. You're looking eight people on shift at a time. Engine company, lighter company. Hiring 24 people in three years will be hell. Make it simple. Um just the people just not want to be firefighters anymore. We've we've got six people we've had six people in the last year and a half in academy to train them to do that. So, you know, that's another issue other than just building the trucks and people. So, 2029 definitely be a goal to get to. Biggest thing north is us getting there with the traffic and we're we we're regrouping our response from station two on old Graham Road. They're taking more coming south just because of the traffic stuff in the mornings. It is. Well, y'all y'all know it. Y'all live it every day. So, you know, we're we're regrouping also how the growth is affecting us. Any questions?

Thank you. Thanks, Chief. Thanks, Chief. Thank you.

You have growing pains. growing pets the workshop December. Okay. Thank you.

All right. Up next, we have two public hearings. Okay, first is a public hearing for UDO amendments section 95 and five 23B2. We will conduct public hearing. I'll take a motion to open the public hearing. So move. Thank you. Mayor promoter votes. All those in favor say I.

I. board. There are two next amendments to the UDO that are being proposed by staff. Um the first involves the planning board. Uh and there are two things that are essentially being added to the um current requirements of the UDO. One is the um the fact that ETJ representatives on the planning board, the law requires that you have at least one, but it's supposed to be proportional to the population of the ETJ. And of course, every dennial census that we have, you're supposed to reevaluate the number of people in the ETJ and versus the number of people in town and make some adjustment or at least take a look at and see how many representatives uh for the ETJ ought to be in place. uh that's been the law for a while and we've done that sort of informally but uh this tax amendment makes it part of the UDO provision. Um the only other major uh significant addition to the uh the text here is that your recent policy on advisory board attendance and um participation in the process is now being added as a part of the u tax development itself. I don't know if anybody signed up on that particular part of the amendments or not. I know there was I can talk address the other amendment as well if you want to both.

Uh there's one you might as well address the other part. There's one person.

The other other proposed amendment is to section 5.23B2 of UDO that deals with um recreation fees in lie of the actual dedication of property. Um the law has required or allowed the town to be able to require dedication of um land that's being proposed for development for public recreation areas. And the formula that Pittsburgh has used in the past is 133 of an acre per lot. There are situations wherein um the property is not suitable for a public recreation area and the town might not be inclined to accept that or there may not be enough land actually to be able to dedicate uh that required area uh as well. So the UDO provides for alternatives um to the actual dedication of the land. One of which is to dedicate land off the site that's being proposed for development. Another is to pay a fee. The way the UDO is is worded currently, the fee is based upon tax value, but the UDO provision now says it's the pre-development tax value. This proposed amendment would change that uh to provide for the postdevelopment tax with the assumption that the post-development value would be higher than the pre-develop value. Um, and that's essentially what the before the UDO was adopted in the subdivision regulations that the town had. It was post development tax rate. So, this is really going back to what it was what the UDO was about. Y'all have any questions? I'll try to answer them. You can hear what the test say.

All right. There's one individual sign out to speak. Uh, Nick Robinson. because I already know what he's got.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, town board members, staff, town attorney, Mick Robinson, 128 Ysboro Street, Pittsburgh 27312. I just want to speak on the second um amendment that Mr. Messik described, which is the one about the recreation fees and using the post-development value of the land that's required uh as opposed to the pre-development u value of the land. Um the um to make it easy, I I guess I could just give you a roundable example. Um so if you had a um if you had an apartment complex that had 330 apartments in it, you take 133rd of that to get the number of acres that you would be required to give. So that's 10 acres. And if you had to dedicate 10 acres in the middle of a multi family site, you're probably not going to have a multif family site because there's not that much acreage around. So you say okay well let's do the fee in L. The way you calculate the fee ine Lou right now is you take that 10 that number 10 acres and you say what is the pre-development value of the acreage um that and you can pay that to the town instead of giving it the 10 acres. Um and so if you assume and right now I think this is a fairly reasonable assumption. If you assume that the pre-development value of land in a development like that is about a h 100,000 an acre, then for 10 acres or 10 times 100,000 is $1 million. You'd have a $1 million um recreation fee. If you use the postdevelopment value of the land, you probably because after you put in streets and after you put in sewer and after you put in water, you're talking about land that's possibly valued at around a million dollars an acre. So then you're jacking the recreation fee up for that same project with this amendment from a $1 million rec fee to a $10 million rec fee. And if you think about what that does to the cost of the project,

it adds $30,000 to the cost of each apartment in that 330 unit apartment complex. So you're number one probably going to scare off every multif family developer if you want multif family. But the unintended consequences in addition to that will be that if you really want density where you're going to be able to have multif you be able to have affordable housing, the place to do that is in multifamily projects. And if you add $30,000 per unit uh to an apartment complex project, you're not going to have any affordable units in there. Um and that's just a practical reality. The other thing that I would and so my my basic point is I think pump the brakes just a little bit here on this amendment. Take a little bit more time to review it and come up with a scheme that will work both for multif family projects and for single family projects because I actually think this uh BDO amendment probably works in single family developments where you have more land and fewer units. Um so I would recommend to you all this is entirely up to you of course to to postpone a vote on this until you guys have a little more opportunity to review that. The other thing is that currently um the UDO has this provision spelled out um but it also you all have adopted a fee schedule that says that the um recreation fee per unit is $4,750 per unit. Um, and it's unclear to developers at this point which of those applies. And those are very different. $30,000 per unit in a 330 uh unit apartment complex per unit um is a lot more money than 4,750 per unit. Even though $4,750 per unit is still a million half dollars. Um, so, um, I would just say that we need if you're going to do a a

UDO revision, it would be good to clarify that that disconnect and then it would also be good to give some thought to whether or not you you you want to gradate the uh, fee and LU calculation for higher density projects. That was my those are my only points. Thanks. Thank you. [Applause] staff have any comments? I actually want to speak an awful lot less to the land value part and speak for the need to if you're if you're not going to approve the whole thing tonight. Certainly the change to the UDO about uh planning board membership. I would like to see that h next for sure.

Yeah. The other piece could potentially go back for additional work. I kind of neutral on that, but the membership and the planning board I'm very feeling very strongly about. Mr. Coingle, I support that and and would be interested in in um cutting the two pieces uh and treating them separately. Um it' be an enormous favor of staff. Yeah. Could could you elaborate a little bit more on um the the idea of of a gradated uh a plan that is gradated based on the density?

Uh the statute requires that the VMO be based upon tax. It's a question or oppose seems to me. Maybe not. Does that mean that it's not possible within the law to have uh a rate for attached houses that's different from a rate tax value? Yes. I mean, it's not impossible if you could tie it to the tax value. I'm not sure how you would do that. That would be my reservation on this is I I'm not sure how that's done legally. Okay.

Not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying I I don't want to go out very thinly. We want to try and do right here on the floor.

I would just offer one suggestion. Some other jurisdictions do it uh with a flat rate per unit. Um but that is then based upon the calculation of the tax values for different kinds of units. So it could theoretically done that way. Um but so I mean in terms of the issue that Mr. Robinson would was mentioning as far as what the SK the fee schedule is concerned there is a disconnect between that but um that was some previous manager's decision and u we're more enlightened now than we were then. But I mean it's certainly possible, I think, to come up with a flat fee per unit, whether it's a single family unit or whether it's a multif family.

I was just going to add, if I may, Mr. Mr. Mayor, um, a couple things on on those points. One is just just for the sake of comparison, the the current um, recreation fee in Chattam County per unit is $926. Um, and u, then the second thing I would say is that I think that Mr. Domestic is is correct that it does have to be based on the tax value and and I guess it could be either pre-development or post-development. That's one half of the calculation. The other half of the calculation is 133 of an acre per unit. You could change that and still have it be postdevelopment and you would come up with a lower number. So you can you can manipulate both sides of the equation. So you could have a different um fraction instead of 133rd for multif family than you have for single family and that won't um won't be a foul of what Mr. Messik is mentioning.

Might be possible too. Sounds good. I want to hear more from staff later. I'm certainly going to uh mention that the recreation needs of this town, particularly the growth rate we're currently at, I feel far exceed the county's needs. So, I would certainly not want to tie ourselves to accounting regulation. I would I understand the difference, but I'm simply saying please be kind to yourselves financially.

Thank you. Is there value understand there might be some adjustments that need to be made and these are adjustments to be made. Is there value in making this change and then coming back as an incremental step and then coming back and making additional corrections or should we depends on how many uh final plats are ready to be approved. That's when the fee is paid

at this point in a few years. So, let's just say and I'm expecting a torrent. So, yeah, there's there's a little bit of urgency, but again, if you all feel that a month would help you with this other piece, I don't mind that piece being tabled. I just want to address the planning board thing. One more pitch. Just saying. Being that we have the fee already in the the fee schedule, if this is approved, wouldn't they have the option to choose? No, you should delete the fee schedule. I'm not sure. Okay. Because that's based upon any tax

because currently there's both the fee and I guess redevelopment. Yes. But the deletion is not part of this. It can be at another date. Yes, sir. things are just changing to change the fee schedule. There is not. The other thing to consider is do you want fee and l or do you want land

and is more value valuable that also in terms of most of the projects we see are conditional zoning. So, a lot of this is handled in the condition zone process. And I think we're going to see more of the larger projects than the fewer or fewer of the smaller projects. Um, and the larger ones tend to have I think the greater need for that approximate land for recreation. Take a motion to close the public hearing. Moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets. Second, Commissioner Frell. All those in favor say I. I.

So, how would I word a motion to divide the two portions of the recommended ordinance? You would either do one to make a motion on which you want to do number one and number two. Okay. Number one or number two. Uh I'll make a motion to adopt the ordinance amending the unified development ordinance section 9.5. Thank you. That is only number one. Second. Second.

Any other discussion? I want to make I I'm not clear what we're doing. So can you expand on what? Sure. That that go ahead. That is just the uh amendment regarding the composition of the planning board and the regulations around. So we would we're not passing the second portion of it which would then bring it back. I understand that and staff can come back with that one. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, had a motion. Second. Mhm.

Okay. Any other discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Thank you. Up next, another public hearing. PB25456 627 West Street General Reszoning. Take a motion to enter the public hearing. So move second. Commissioner Foley. All those in favor say I. I. All right. I appreciate it. I'm back. Okay. That's worse. Right.

In your packet, there is a legislative request by Charlotte Kepler, who is here this evening, submitting a uh petition for a map amendment for um parcel 8021 from its current classification, which is R10 high density residential to C2 highway business. It's approximately a third of an acre and uh it is bounded on one side by the 7th day Adventist church and founded by a similar looking house that is according to the internet the Asian massage spa next door. So basically you have a bunch of houses that are converted and this is the owned residential structure which is the one that appears in this picture. Go to the next slide if you don't mind. Okay, as I say this is what being asked for. Um this is sort of the general area and as you all are aware um when you move the highway route and you have a lot of highway businesses already the loan home over there could likely be a request to change it. If we go to the next slide which illustrates my point previously the truck route was quite different. This is the new new truck route and the red uh arrow I'm pointing up even though y'all are looking at this but the red arrow is the location. Um if you jump over to the next slide

I have a question about that. Yes sir. Is the trucker route 15501 15501 or when is that being designated? Actually I think it's been designated I've seen things up already. It just simply isn't. I mean 15501 is designated but the truck route is not 15501 is the truck route and it was moved to that 87 I guess when can we prohibit what's this is maybe a side question but there's still trucks on Hillsboro street yes so if this is the truck route

anyway nevertheless sir I appreciate that but my my issue is that when you literally take the truck traffic off of the turning circle at the courthouse and you move it over here, um part of that from a planning perspective is a decision that when you have two highways that cross each other and every single thing on all four corners is largely commercial, you have a highway business district. You go to the next slide. Okay. So, the current use, we're not talking about the split parcel. It's this mustard one over here as the uh TND that was in the land use plan. If you also notice um this is somewhat deceptive, but every single thing on the right hand side heading over to the as I say 7th Day Adventist Church is currently on that corner. It isn't just commercial there. It's commercial on all four corners. I came by this afternoon on the way over here and saw the car wash and full swing Al's Diner on the other corner of Framing Shop on that one sliver and then gas stations and other things that take you over to the Phoenix Bakery and other things. No plug on the bakery, just simply mentioning the name of the business. If you go to the next slide, the proposal is just to basically unify the highway business district when you're driving through here. Um, and honestly, I go past there all the time. The big difference between the day, and I'm certainly going to encourage them to come up and have a word for themselves because they do have a presentation after mine on this exact same item, but I went over here expecting to find a very tranquil neighborhood. What I actually found was a bunch of businesses with one or two converted houses, and this is the the lone exception to that rule. which is why I've staff arrived at the conclusion that it is consistent with the land use plan in the sense that smallcale businesses are allowed in the district. Most neighboring properties

are highway business. At this point, I'm going to introduce the or they're going to introduce themselves. How about that? This is the petitioners. Yeah.

All right. I'm Charlotte Kepler. I actually grew up in Pittsburgh. Um spent about 30 years here. My parent, my mother still lives here. Whole side of my Macintosh family still lives here. And this is my husband, Daniel Kepler. He also grew up in Pittsburgh, born and raised. So we are we still consider ourselves locals even though we recently moved to Holly Springs and raising our kids there. Um, so yes, we currently own the house at 627 West Street. We are looking at reszoning it to Highway Commercial. As Randy pointed out, it does fit in, you know, put commercial where commercial is. So, that is simply what we're proposing here. Um, any questions or

they had a slide. Oh, yours is yours is better. Go ahead. Does everyone I just want to ask is everyone clear on where this property is? Look. Okay. So, you right across the street is the gas station. Traffic's been increasing like crazy there. People pull out of the gas station, there's headlights shining right into the house. So, you know, we've used it as a rental and it's getting harder and harder because traffic's increasing and it's just naturally turning into a commercial corridor. Yeah. And people with kids I mean, it's a three-bedroom house and people with kids don't want to move here because it's a heavy leap

right out your front door. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I mean we're I we're basically asking to just let us, you know, sorry, this is marked Cisco confidential. Is this appropriate to be um It is. It's just I didn't even recognize that, but good catch. Good attention to detail. I do work for Cisco. Yeah, one business tonight. Sorry about that. Yeah. So, so I mean we're just we're just asking for uh you know letting us put a service business where service businesses already exist. Oh, I'm sorry. Back up. And there's there's the gas station.

You see gas station, the old Napa building, which is now the Phoenix Bakery and coffee shop. And then they just opened up this whole brewery. I don't know. It's been there with the metal building. Used to be right next to us. Yeah. Now moved it. And that that is the view from our front porch. Just so you know, the building at the rear that appears to be a house is actually State Farm. Yeah. It's a Farm Bureau, excuse me. Yeah. It's an insurance agent.

The traffic out there is crazy and it's very loud. The day that I took the sign out, I had a little bit of trouble turning in, a whole lot of trouble turning out. And it was zoom zoom zoom zoom zoom. And if you sit front or back, all you can hear is traffic. the lights at night. The lights at night. So, there's that. Hence, it's becoming less and less desirable for a rental house.

I think that's most of what we have unless you guys have question. You want to hear us repeat this? No, I I have other questions and I'm I'm strongly in support of it. Salut is no one signed up to speak at the public hearing. Okay. move to close the hearing. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's okay. I just had one question for them for you. Oh, I'm sorry. Seventh day at Venice. Did they have any Did they have any feedback about No, every they did receive a letter as did we sent out probably 12 letters and we did put the sign out. We did run the ads and the paper. No, they didn't really say anything at all.

Okay. And uh they didn't tell me to park in the parking lot either as I was trying to find a safe place. I certainly wasn't going to stop on the shoulder of the road. Car's too nice for that. Get rear ended in addition to everything else. The traffic is pretty extreme over there. It's it's you know a little busy. Yes. Yes, ma'am. I'll tab. I don't have any problem with it. And so the business is dog grooming. Is that correct? currently, but uh obviously when you're doing a straight when you're doing a straight resoning, it's all the businesses that are listed as that is the intent. Yes. Yes. Talk about the job if you want to. No, you guys interested. Sure. Yeah, please. One more plug. No, it's I prefer we don't talk about specific.

Okay, then let's not. Okay, thank you. It's just too rough. You should not take that into consideration. There you go. Okay. Thank you. It does create more jobs and tax. Yes. Any further questions? Okay. Make a motion to close the public hearing. Moved. Second. Vance. Second. Commissioner Foley. All those in favor say I. I. Uh I move to recommend approval of PB 25456 as presented. Second. Second. Commissioner Ferrell. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right. Thank you very much.

That was easier than next. That's true. Yes. Uh up next we have two donations of sculpture sculptures. One or actually two by Lauren Franklin. So Heather Well, you were doing such a good job. So we like to donate to the town.

Yeah. We have two um action items for donation of sculptures. Um two by Lauren Franklin. Um and in your packet there were pictures of the sculptures and the background of the artist. And so staff has not had any discussion yet on where those will go, but that would be um staff decision on where we place the sculptures and we would um pro get a plaque, you know, to give the details of the donation and uh and the artist. So we're just asking for acceptance of the donation. Uh I move to accept the donation.

Thank you. Is there a second? Commissioner Vos, any discussion? Yes. One thing. Thank you. Thank you for the donation. We're taking them one at a time. This is Lawrence. Well, thank you, Lauren. All those in favor say I. I. I. And some guy named Kyle Ship is also looking to donate a sculpture. I jumped ahead named Flower Power. Option to approve. We're not going to ask you to recuse yourself. I don't vote. [Laughter] Uh, Mayor Provaldo. Motion. Second. Second. Mr. Bonnets. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. I.

Thank you.

All right. Uh, board of commissioners code of ethics and conduct. This is what we had uh last month and then we took it out for some additional review and revise. We did reach out to North Carolina League of Municipalities and the UNCC School of Government. both declined to uh review it as that's the town attorney's scope. Um they did say sort of unofficially say it does hit all the proper marks that it is supposed to. Um there's a red line version in here at the bottom. So there's a slight change to the conflict of interest uh that you mentioned, Commissioner Foley. Uh, so now it says any financial, personal, or close relational interest or other circumstance that would reasonably question a commissioner's impartiality. Um, and then 26 says conduct that a reasonable person would view as undermining integrity or impartiality of the board even if not expressly prohibited by law. Uh, which replaces that technically lawful bill. And then uh Commissioner Bonnets's two items related to what you were the communication uh added. I think this is added the red line got a little strange but uh added a section in six communication of information or guidance to staff or advisory board should occur through the town manager or designated staff liaison to ensure consistency and avoid the appearance of influence. and then added to 72. This section does not prohibit casual or incidental conversation. Prohibiting such communication does not involve that's supposed to be providing I thought we updated that uh providing such communication does not involve a majority of an advisor. I think that's correct in the

Yeah, that is that word is correct in the actual version. Any additional questions about this?

Take a motion to adopt the resolution revising the code of ethics and conduct for the board of commissioners of the town of Pittsburgh as presented. So moved. Thank you, Commissioner Foley. Second, Commissioner Vos. All those in favor say I. I. All right. Up next, we have a request for an agreement with the Welcome Center Incorporated. Greg, [Music]

well, so it's on the agenda at the request of the board. Um, so we we put together a draft put together a draft agreement uh with the welcome center um and on the agenda as a requested board. Um that we did it just for essentially the remainder of this fiscal year. Um and that is why the amount is not the 20,000 that was discussed, it's 10,000. Um and then the idea would be that if it want if we wanted the board wanted to renew that for the upcoming fiscal year that that would be a discussion at the budget time and then a new agreement would be done yeartoear and we don't have the annual um automatic renewals.

Okay. So you have any questions I can I do have questions about the budget that was in the doc in the sporting documents. Um, there was a rent line of 29,900 [Music] or excuse me, $29,96 per year. Um, and I don't know what commercial rental rates are these days. That'll be a a question for Greg. I'm sorry. What's the question? You say, can you say who you are? Greg Lewis uh live in 78 Lauren Rose Lane Pittsburgh and I'm on the treasure for the welcome.

Thank you. Um questions about uh the budget uh that was a supporting document for this um um initiative. Um, tell us about the rent line of $29,96 per year of what we pay. Yeah. So, we pay about 2,200 and change a month in rent. Mhm. Um,

and there's also a facility and equipment expenses line. And it's not clear to me what that would be. How much I don't have it in front of me. Sorry. I didn't know. I didn't know. Yeah, that's uh $42,000 per year that we spent. I think that's the total updates here. Okay, it looks like that's not much more than we

doing a sublet of $100 a month. It's 15. Oh, I can't get that. Read it. It's in brail. Yeah. Would we be able to put it up? Yes, we we sub ran out an office uh to Century 21 in space and it helps us as well.

Okay. Um could we get it up on the screen? Thank you. I should have written down the line numbers. I'm sorry, but uh we could search for facility and equipment. So, Commissioner Bonds, I think generally it's the 27,000 for rent and then there's some utilities, maintenance, depreciation, and that's the total of 40,6 and then we have staffing.

I mean, we don't have facility fees or maintenance fees of that amount. And equipment expenses. Yeah, that's um Yeah, except I found a different number. 42,364. So maybe this version is live and it's changed. No, the bottom further down. Farther down.

He's right. That's 24. So any equipment expenses over here? 42. Yes. 60 up a little. And over to the right. Yeah. Maybe we can search within page for the number 42364.

Oh, she's in the wrong It's the profit and loss by tag group. Um, pitch of bondage. What did what did you line right here? Yeah. Yeah. I I just it it it looks like similar numbers and and it's a total of the of the rent, commercial insurance, and the utilities. Okay. Y rent plus commercial insurance plus utilities. Yeah. And then to think about the total the organization's total outlay for the facility would be subtracting that $1,400 a month of the sublet. Yes.

Got it. Okay. I understand it better. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, friends. Any questions? Any questions? Yeah, I do have one question. You you talked about hourly uh hours of operation. Yes. Can you explain that?

Yes. What what we're proposing is uh currently the welcome center open we pay a concier 20 hours a week to be there. Um what we're proposing with this is that we would be open from 11 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. 5 days a week, Tuesday through Saturday, and they'd be open for the events that are listed on the agreement. So there's really, if I remember correctly, there's not much traffic between 9:00 a.m. and 11. No, there's very little open in downtown at 9:00 a.m. Veries is open. Okay. For breakfast. I think that's reflected, not that, but the hours are incorrect in in in

Yes, the hours in there are incorrect. I think that was a misunderstanding, but we used to be we used to open at 10:00 a.m. and there was just nobody in town. So, we changed our hours to open and there's just nobody in town at 9 10:00 in the morning unless there was an event going on. First Sunday, we open at 9:00 a.m. If there's an event going on in downtown, we're open early. The running the events use the welcome center as a as their staging for first Sunday. So the hours would be 9 to5 and then in supported town events would be the well they the hours would be I'm sorry.

Finally Fridays you would not be open 9 to5 right we would be open 11 to 5 Tuesday through Saturday and then additional hours based on events. Finally Fridays we'd be open 9 till 8. I mean we'd have to you know how late does finally Friday need us open? But we'd open at 11:00 a.m. and we'd close. I'm curious, does the wage u does the wage reflect an 11 o'clock start or the the wages reflect a in day in the forecast or in this document

that we we've got both in there. We have last year's Yep. Yes. last year's P&L and we have a forecast in so what's in last year's is the hours we were open what's forecasted is our current hours what are we approving tonight if we approve it what are we voting on tonight then you're you're voting on us being open additional hours and the town supporting us to the tune of $10,000 for the remainder of this fiscal year this this agreement says Tuesday through Saturday 9 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p p.m.

That's that was a mistake in the agreement. I noticed that 15 minutes before the meeting started. I never I hadn't didn't see this agreement until I saw the agenda. Right. So when I when I saw the agenda and I saw the agreement, I broke up. Got it. Hey, would would the hours of attendance probably be better if you went 12 to 6:00 p.m. if you had any um in the evenings? There's events in Youngtown. There's there is people around but um there aren't a lot of people around after 5 unless they're at S&Ts puries the dance studio you know or you get into later in the evening when there's people floating around for city tourist folks the people that are coming in to see us most of those are not in town that way unless there's an event like for the tree lighting will be be busy

but this it will be very busy but this agreement is for public restrooms not for correct tourism correct public restrooms you know but how many people are if you're going in SMGs and pearlies or havoc or city tap are you coming to the welcome center to use the restroom this for typically for people that are shopping in downtown and shops are open till mostly till 5. That's my experience for Yes.

Unfortunately, I've been trying for since I opened the roadhouse to get shops to stay open till 9:00 at night. Nobody will so we can all work on that together. Can I make the motion to approve the budget ordinance amending fiscal year 2025? No. this one.

You got to modify. [Applause] Can I make a motion to approve the staff executing the agreement between the town and the welcome center with the amended hours of 11 to 5 plus open in support of town events? I butchered that a little bit, but that's it. Is there a second? Uh, Commissioner F. Any more discussion?

Uh, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Thank you, sir. Thank you. Now, now this one. Yeah. I make a motion to approve the budget ordinance amending fiscal year 2025 2026 operating budget to allocate funds to the welcome center incorporated. Moved. Oh, he's making a motion. Yeah. Second. Second. Commissioner Foley. All those in favor say I. I. Post. All right. Thank you. Ask for a fivem minute break. Absolutely. Five minute recent Reeves Farm. Yeah. Five recess.

Welcome back again. All right, we are up to the development agreement for Reeves Farm already. Mr. Messi, as

you will recall, this was on the your agenda last month um for the public hearing which you all held um and but there were questions raised about some of the u contents of the development agreement draft that you had uh before you and you have received a subsequent draft which u complies with the provisions of the North Carolina general statutes as far as subdivision you know development agreements are concerned. As you all well know, the property is on Highway 64. Uh the conditional zoning that you approved almost exactly two years ago um allowed for 1,700 up to 1,700 residences and up to a million12,000 square feet of uh non-commercial non-residential uh space on property um that is rearm. And this agreement outlines the uses, tendencies and a detailed phasing schedule for the development. Um it has commitments for public infrastructure like roads and water and sewer extensions and um public recreation and open space. It contemplates four phases of development over a period of 10 years. Um traffic impact analysis has been submitted to the town and um the developer will contribute to infrastructure improvements including 7 and a half% of the total number of dwelling units for affordable housing which will be in the second and third phases of the development. Um if you're satisfied with the provisions of this draft of the development agreement, you should approve it. If you think it um needs more work, then you can let us know go forward. Developers here of course waiting patiently and you have any questions for them. I'm sure they'd be glad to try.

Any questions for Mr. Mesik? Yeah. Yes. Oh, not for you, Mr. Mos, but Mr. Bradshaw. Yes, sir. Question number one would be uh how many units are going to be built in phase one? So, that would how many units are on phase one? 250. 250. 250. Yes, sir. And I think there is a requirement by the by the town to have two exits with that many units. Is that correct? These are more plat and jod questions.

Yes. Delivering plat is the next item on the agenda. And okay, I'll wait. My apologies. You have to approve this development agreement before you can consider and approve the plinary plan. Apologize. No problem. Questions on the development agreement?

Motion to approve the revelment agreement. Seconded. Motion by Commissioner Frell, second by Commissioner Vos. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right. Up next is preliminary plat PB25211 Ree Farm phase one. Mr. Kahun Tingle.

Good evening. Short story. Um 250 watt subdivision that's in front of you all. It's the first of four phases. There's a very long staff report here. Let me just say that um we're we're super excited. Um the planning board on September 15th voted unanimously of this year to uh approve uh re recommend approval and certainly staff is also approval. Those questions for the developer who is here and can certainly come up just to introduce myself. My name is Jody Loff. I live at 481 Ben. Thank you for being patient. My pleasure. It's been a long night. I was talking about the 200 plus units. Phase one. Phase one. Um, first off, with that many units, you should have two roads. Is that correct? Two. Uh

so uh we worked with the fire marshall and staff to leverage the existing gravel road and we are building an extension of the existing driveway that's been in place forever. Uh and the standards specified in the preliminary plat. It'll be a gravel access road to have that second form of emergency egress in and out of the site. Thank you. And we we reviewed that with Billy Jetson, the fire marshall, and he was comfortable with the access. During the public hearing, someone spoke about no affordable housing in phase one. Can you explain the rationale there?

Yes. Um I will say that we've been asked to take on the affordable housing without any assistance that is typically found in solving affordable housing. Right? Generally, when you go in and start talking about affordable housing, it takes all. It takes the builder, the land developer, municipalities, it takes utility companies, you know, it's it's we all know that you can't sell affordable unit for what you pay to build it, right? And so, in our methodology, there's a couple things at play. One is the unit type and the POS and where the locations of the units would exist which would be more center in the project closer to the commercial closer to services and that all occurs in phase two. Phase one allows us to kind of recoup all the early infrastructure costs so that we can't shoulder the affordable housing on our own. The third aspect of uh the affordable housing um is kind of unit type unit mix and currently what we see in affordable housing programs are for rent right so workforce housing at the guild and mosaic right we have comment coming up that's all for rent what we were trying to do is target home ownership and that's a difficult difficult problem to solve financially but that is something that we are targeting because home ownership is to us a very important tenant of this development and so allowing the first phase to kind of build and gain momentum in order that we can begin to solve it and target you know I don't right now current projections say we're going to add 112

units in the affordable housing pool for the town of Pittsburgh, right? I can't tell you right now that all 112 are going to be home ownership, but that would be a goal that we're striving for and we may end up splitting some of that with the multif family. And so that may, you know, it may be 100% home ownership. It may be 8020, you know, as we work through it and want to keep these discussions going because we all know that the success, you know, Chattam County, Oak Hill, you all the successful elements have taken everybody's had to give a little bit. We're shouldering, you know, we volunteer to take this on.

Yes. And that should be acknowledged. Thank you. The other thing I want to add or just elaborate on what Jody said, he hinted at it, but there's a great deal of the cost of this project that's front-loaded to phase one. All of the recreation area is going to be dedicated with phase one. The entire $500,000 fee in L is going to be paid before the phase one final plat's even approved. There's going to be off-site infrastructure and and transportation improvements that have to be made in conjunction with phase one that will serve the subsequent phases of the development. So, we've got a lot of costs going into phase one already in addition to the point Jody was making about having more appropriate land and more appropriate housing types in the subsequent phases to provide this home ownership model of affordable housing that we're aiming for.

We make a good team.

Uh, question number three. Yes, I have great concerns about if I'm traveling from Raleigh and I live in Reeves Farm, how do I get to my house at 5:00 in the evening?

You would stay on the bypass because speed limit picks up if you go through the tro faster. And then 87 is a I I come down from 15501 if I'm the the office and I always jump off of the bypass and come down 87. And I think our TIA proved that out. I mean, we went through exhaustive work through our traffic impact analysis to really protect the traffic circle and make sure that we weren't loading the traffic circle unnecessarily and that it would still function with the full buildout of Reeves Farm. So you understand the importance of that, sir.

And with that, within the TIA, there's two off-site improvements. You know, if you come down 87, the left turn lane's pretty short. And you know, if there's people, it's very short. It can. So part of that's the extension of that left turn lane to make traffic flow easier to reach for him. You can get around the people that want to take a left and head into town and go to things in the town. And then a signal at 902 and 87 is projected as well. And if there's any other comments from the public hearing that you want me to address, I'm glad address those at this time.

So those those improvements are happening all the way over near Diner. Yes, there's two offsite. We've worked diligently with Benster been terrific and we're we still part of the TIA and the full buildout didn't address the actual timing of those off sites and so we've agreed to the phasing analysis. Good. So we'll continue to work with Ben and the town on those improvements. Thank you. Sounds like a lot of lot of diligent work. Appreciate that. Any other questions?

Mr. F not pretty much. I had spoke with Katie earlier regarding the pond as okay and uh I think we're clear with that. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Jody. All right. Uh see motion to approve the major subdivision preliminary plot including payment of fees in lie of public recreation land dedication in the amount of 500,000 and provision of public recreation land dedication of 44 49.69 acres as illustrated on the preliminary plot to be paid and dedicated prior to final plot approval. That's a different amount of that

should be 50 points. Just clicked it. Right. Then whatever's live on the agenda right now is what I clicked on. The current calculation is what Commissioner B said. Yeah, 49.69 is what's the staff report. Yeah. And we we did verify that. When I say we, I mean me. But it got verified. What was the amount, Randy? What was it? $500,000 at 49.69 acres. In fairness,

the fee and L part of part of that acreage is 12 a.5 acres that's credited for the fee and L. So it's not 500,000 plus 49 acres. The entire calculation 49 acres and change actual wreck areas are denominated on the sketch and the actual areas may vary from uh when they get to the survey those precise things. And that's what resulted in that discrepancy is when the was quitting CAD and that was the calculation that came out for the acreage that's actually being dedicated as physical land.

So I guess the number is 49.69 I should say. Okay, I think we're good. There a second. Second Tim Baldin. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Thank you. And thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Uh up next, climate action plan. Jenna,

right? Good evening. But still evening. Good evening.

In case you need a reminder because it's been a few months, my name is Jenna Peterson and I have the climate action plan final draft for consideration. So the this is the cover page of our plan. Uh Caitlyn, our communication specialist, worked really hard on the whole plan. Um so kind of a recap from the last time I really was around the board was back in June for our community meetings. So from June on, we analyzed all of our data from our survey. We worked on a draft. Central Pines led the drafting of the plan and then we made some edits to it. We put it live for review on October 3rd. It was published on the website and then we had another community input meeting that was based off the request of the public. So we had a meeting where they could come review the draft, ask questions, um give input in person. We also had a survey for feedback online. The majority of the feedback we heard was positive. There was a couple comments that we took into consideration. Uh so the biggest one would be that we added a quick wins or like a easy to implement section long plan. And so this just identifies some options that might be easier to implement still in like this fiscal year or at the beginning of next fiscal year. And that's what I have to share about the draft. There's any questions, please let me know.

Questions for Jim? comments, jokes. Thank you for all that you do. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Thank you. That's no joking matter, but um I recognize that this was uh a really extraordinary public input process um with numerous opportunities and really rigorous and I really appreciate that because I know it was a lot of data to digest um in a lot of different forms.

It was and then um which is Emily Barrett, our associate with Central Pines, no longer works with Central Pines. So that was a little bit of a hurdle at the end, but like the communications department for really helping out there. Yeah, great.

I attended a couple of the public input sessions and stuff as well in here. Um, and it was really well well done and I think um I think we had good input and I I appreciate like the operational nature of this and the even the icons and stuff that we came up with to show that that she came up with. Um, but I think it's a really usable plan. I make a motion to adopt the climate action plan. Seconded.

We have a motion by Commissioner Fost, second Commissioner Bonnets. Any other discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right. Lastly, a close session. I'll take a motion to enter into a close session pursuant to NCGS143 318 111 A3 and A5.

So moved by Commissioner Baldwin, second by Commissioner Foldley Foley. All those in favor say I. I. See?

We are back in open session. I'll take a motion to adjurnn. So moved. So moved. Commissioner Vos. Second, Commissioner Vonnets. All those in favor say I. I. I. I