Board of Commissioners (boc) - Regular Meeting

I was just commenting on the photograph, where it came from. And was it?

During commission, not the state.

He does a lot of phone calls to just do that. He has a lot of friends.

We went through a lot of different variations. And we just finally settled on that photo.

Yeah. So find yourself a person.

There you go. The good ones, it's dead empty. And then you get a good photo.

Oh.

Good evening. Welcome to the Pittsburgh Board of Commissioners meeting for June 8, 2026. I will call the meeting to order. We'll start with a moment of silence.

Please join me.

Thank you.

Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Mayor Pro Tem Ferrell Right. We have in front of us, the regular agenda and the consent agenda. Are there any additions or changes to either a motion to approve the agenda? Thank you, commissioner Hunziker. second second question all those in favor say aye aye thank you any opposed and i'll take a motion to approve the consent agenda thank you mr thurber is there a second second sure all those in favor say aye aye aye thank you Up next, we have a few ceremonial items this evening. Up first is a proclamation of race amity day. I'll read that. Proclamation recognizing race amity day. Whereas Race Amity Day is observed annually on the second Sunday in June to recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every person. And whereas the town of Pittsburgh upholds the enduring motto of the United States of America, e pluribus unum, out of many, one, as a guiding principle for unity and inclusion. And whereas race amity promotes understanding, respect, goodwill and cooperation among all people, regardless of race, ethnicity or cultural background. And whereas communities thrive when all residents are valued, heard and empowered to contribute to the common good. And whereas on Saturday, June 13th, 2026, a community celebration themed We Walk the Path Together will include a mindful musical walk, George Moses Fortin Middle School festivities, and Race Amity Day celebration. Now, therefore, I, Kyle Shipp, Mayor of the Town of Pittsboro, and on behalf of the Board of Commissioners, do hereby proclaim Sunday, June 14, 2026, will be recognized as Race Amity Day in the Town of Pittsboro and encourage all residents to promote understanding, respect, unity, and friendship throughout the community. Thank you. Up next. Up next, we have a resolution for Juneteenth. Commissioner Hanzlick.

We invite Melinda Marsh and anybody else from the fairgrounds and Shontay Smith to come up. This is a resolution recognizing Juneteenth and honoring for community organizing for racial equity and Chatham County Agriculture and Industrial Fairgrounds. Whereas Juneteenth commemorates June 19, 1865 as the day when enslaved African Americans in Galveston, Texas were informed of their freedom more than two years after the Emancipation Proclamation, revealing that freedom proclaimed is not always freedom received. And whereas Juneteenth stands for the day of remembrance, resistance, celebration, and renewed commitment to justice, equity, dignity, and full civic participation. And whereas Juneteenth calls communities to confront the legacy of chattel slavery and racial injustice in America with honesty while honoring the current leadership, creativity, and enduring contributions of Black Americans and Whereas community organizing for racial equity, IV, advances racial equity in Chatham County through civic engagement, education, cultural celebration, public dialogue, youth leadership, and collective action. And whereas since 2018, IV has organized annual Juneteenth celebrations in Chatham County that gather residents, artists, educators, small businesses, families, organizations, and leaders in remembrance, celebration, and community formation. And whereas the Juneteenth celebration is held at the historic Chatham County Agricultural and Industrial Fairgrounds, founded in 1950 as the Chatham County Color and Cultural Fair, and recognized as the last remaining Black-owned fairgrounds in the United States, and whereas for generations the fairgrounds have stood as civic and cultural ground where Black residents built community, cultivated enterprise, preserved memory, strengthen agricultural traditions and claim joy amid exclusion and inequality and whereas the town of pittsburgh recognizes that preserving black history is a public responsibility that strengthens repairs memory deepens belonging and advances justice now therefore be it resolved that the mayor and the board of commissioners for the town of pittsburgh declare june 19 2026 as juneteenth and call upon all residents to reflect on the cost and needing of freedom honor the heritage and contributions of Black Americans, and participate in efforts that promote education, service, dialogue, justice, equity, and mutual respect. Be it further resolved that the town of Pittsboro expresses deep appreciation to CORE, the Chatham County Fairgrounds, and all whose labor continues building a more truthful, connected, just, equitable, and inclusive community. We've adopted this 8th day of June, 2026. Thank you for all you do.

Thank you.

i get a motion to approve that resolution thank you commissioner bonnets the second thanks sure foley all those in favor say aye aye opposed great thank you and we'll get some ceremonial copies of that out as well thank you up next we have a resolution for pride month june 2026 commissioner thurber

This is a resolution recognizing Pride Month, whereas all people are entitled to live with dignity, safety, equality, and freedom from discrimination. And whereas Pride Month traces its origins to the Stonewall Uprising of June 1969 in New York City, a pivotal moment in the struggle for civil rights and equal treatment for LGBTQ individuals, and whereas generations of LGBTQ Americans have contributed to our nation, our state, and our communities while often facing discrimination, exclusion, harassment, and barriers to full participation in civic life. And whereas the progress achieved through decades of advocacy, courage, and public service reflects the enduring American principles of liberty, equal opportunity, and justice for all. And whereas Pride Month serves as both a celebration of the achievements and contributions of LGBTQ individuals and a recognition that the work of building communities where every person is treated with respect and dignity continues. And whereas the town of Pittsboro is strengthened by residents of diverse backgrounds, experiences, identities, and perspectives, and benefits when all people are welcomed and empowered to participate fully in community life. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Mayor and Board of Commissioners for the Town of Pittsboro recognize June 2026 as Pride Month in the Town of Pittsboro and encourage all residents to reflect upon the principles of equality, freedom, dignity, and mutual respect to honor the contributions of the LGBTQ individuals throughout our history and to continue building a community where every person is welcome, valued, and afforded the opportunity to thrive. Adopted on this eighth day of June, 2026.

Thank you. I'm going to motion to approve the resolution.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Hunziker. Second. Second, Commissioner Monitz. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Aye. Thank you. Up next, we have some information items. And we have a quarterly report from the Boys and Girls Club and the Town of Pittsburgh Financials. Any questions on those items?

all right up next is citizens matters and we will start with the manager's update player one i did have one on the uh financials and no gear just one question heather on the miscellaneous revenue let me go to my can you explain that 101 minus on that it's down on page one of eight near the bottom miscellaneous revenue on the summary report or in the income statement oh okay so on the revenue side when there's a minus it means we exceeded what we budgeted where did that come from i guess so i'm asking oh um so

116,000. We have had some additional payments in that I wasn't budgeting off the top of my head. I cannot tell you specifically, but I will get that data to you.

OK. I was just curious where that revenue was coming. I don't know if it was fees or?

It's not fees. Because fees are going to be captured in other line items. This can be, and it's not insurance. It's not 3M. We have a different line item for that. Those are the enterprise grant funds.

We'll find out. We'll let you know. That's true. Not in the black, right?

That's a couple more. Number one, I know the ad valorem taxes have gone up. I know the increase of our population has gone up, but not as much as the rate of the ad valorem. What's the difference? What is it that caused the ad valorem taxes to go up 8%, 8.35%?

Is this on the budget or on the?

Yeah, it's on the budget. We'll talk about it then. Yep. All right. My apologies. Well, at least you have it loaded, locked and loaded. I'll ask you that.

Jonathan, thank you. So just a couple of quick updates on the meetings that we have coming up for June. You've got the joint meeting that's with Pittsburgh, Siler City, Goldston and Chatham County. That is June 22nd, 6 p.m. here at the AgCenter. The mayors and chairs will give an annual update on what happened in each municipality at that meeting. And then the town will be presenting on scale Chatham, which is our initiative to kind of uh focus on entrepreneurship and the gig economy and how we can create an ethos system to support that so uh staff and some folks from riot will be doing that presentation uh to share that with the rest of uh chatham county um town hall public input session was last thursday we had a handful of folks come out i think that was a good meeting everybody that was there seemed to enjoy um the opportunity to give input and like what they saw I will have that out for you all tomorrow and that will be the slides that were provided and then it will show the feedback. And then I'll clarify some points and then if you want feedback from those slides, you can just send that directly to me and we'll include that in our input. Annual stakeholders meeting for downtown is June 23rd at 9 a.m. at the Ag Center as well. You all are invited to that. I think that's 9 to 10, 38. Lastly, had a request for a Sanford Road update. The power has been installed. The crew that's going to install the actual street light, they're waiting on the light itself. And I was told this afternoon it'd be one to two weeks and that light should be up.

Is that light just going to be on one side of the street or both sides?

Just that corner. Okay. The light on the diagonal opposite corner, that light is supposed to be upgraded to a higher voltage. So then the whole intersection should be decently well lit. And we also were upgrading the area light in the abc parking lot to a higher watt as well to to get some more uh kind of ancillary light shine in that direction so we'll see how that does and if that doesn't work then go to plan c thank you um for my updates the central pines rural planning organization with dot that meeting is on uh wednesday this week so i'll be attending that

On May 12th, met with Senator Murdoch with Jonathan. So we just have a quarterly update scheduled just to talk through some items with her and what's going on at the state level. May 24th, I went to the Memorial Day event in the pop-up park when I'm by the American Legion. So appreciate them doing that. And that was a really good event there. May 31st, the Summerfest downtown. Nice to have that downtown on the streets again. So that was a great event. and uh great weather as well and uh then june 3rd last week i think i went to the uh triangle community foundation put on a uh seminar on housing affordability and so that actually like filled the um raleigh convention center and had a author come speak in a panel discussion and stuff like that so some really good um work there and a lot of representation from chatham county with habitat and united bay and a lot of other stuff uh

All right, so this month, I really focused on infrastructure, housing, affordability, economic opportunity, and community engagement. I attended a presentation on the Tri River. Well, actually, we went out to the Tri River Water Expansion Project in Sanford, along with Commissioner Foley. was incredibly impressive and highlighted the significant investments being made to secure our long-term water future. I also attended the Home Builders Association discussions on making the math for housing affordability also with Commissioner Foley. We then met with Congresswoman Valerie Cushy's team, supporting continued relationship buildings between the town and Congress. As part of my work with AHAC, I attended presentations from Cary, Apex, Carrboro, and Wake County, which provided insight on how surrounding communities are addressing affordable and workforce housing challenges. I met with CORE and Web Square to discuss opportunities to strengthen Black entrepreneurship in Pittsboro. On the parks front, I attended the pair of special meeting and then followed up with parks and rec director and the assistant town manager for a tour of our park properties. Also visited the soccer fields, I think five times, sometimes with Commissioner Foley and Bonnets and one time during the rain and also met with nearby residents to hear concerns about lighting, sound buffers and so on. Community engagement is also a top priority. I posted a community commissioner's coffee chat with Commissioner Foley where I think we had 12 residents come out who raised a range of topics going from parks to water, pickleball, concrete plant noise, and traffic congestion. And I met with the town manager to discuss their concerns. I've got some additional coffee chats planned with Commissioners Foley, Bonnets, and one coming up with Commissioner Thurber, which we are excited to hold at Aromatics, Roasters, New Diggs, and West End. Interest has also been expressed by members of Chatham County Board of Commissioners in participating as well, which will hopefully provide residents with broader opportunities to engage with both town and county leadership. And if anybody here would like to sit in on one, just let me know. I think they're a great way to reach out. I attended a candidate forum, the climate fair at the plant, the 20th anniversary of the Chatham Marketplace. May there be 20 more years. First Sunday and Summerfest. Summerfest knocked it out of the park. You did so good. um also uh attended the installation the Clyde Jones marker and I'm excited to be at June 15th on the 20th at the Chatham County Fairgrounds from two to six and I'd like to extend an invitation to my fellow commissioners to share the booth individually of course and to interact with uh attendees and finally I'd like to just say happy pride to Pittsburgh's LGBTQ community

Thank you, Mr. Bonds. Thank you. I do not have any particular updates, but just I'm so impressed with all of the events that you all have attended, and I attended several of them as well.

Thank you. Mr. Farrell. Enough of it this time. Thank you. Mr. Foley.

Last week, I attended a lobby session in Raleigh and met with the elected officials, Natalie Murdoch's staff, Robert Reeves' staff, Alan Punsell's staff, and Renee Price's staff, all of them speaking about affordable housing, specifically projects that could be coming in the future, downtown Pittsburgh or elsewhere. I also spoke in favor of, we spoke, I was there with the Association of Realtors in Chatham and Orange Counties. I spoke in favor of accessible dwelling units and making sure that we are prioritizing affordable housing as the county grows, specifically Pittsburgh. there's a dire need for housing below $300,000. So that's what we lobbied for. We also lobbied for, we also lobbied for green space in those very areas. Also, I attended the HPA meeting with a, and it was about how it was home builders and developers and listening to them in exchange on what works and what doesn't work when they're building. It was quite a great lesson to learn. How much does it cost? If you delay for one or two months, how much more expensive does it get? That type of, so we learned a lot. With Commissioner Hunsinger, I was on a tour at Tri River. Tri River is pretty cool. We spent a great deal of efforts and dollars here in Pittsboro to create a safe water system, granular activated charcoal system. got grants for it and we went uh from questionable water to one some of the cleanest water in in the state uh so i particularly focused on what tri river was going to do so if we're going to get our water from tri river instead of sanford what on earth are we getting down there and we found out there are granular activated charcoals filtration systems that are set up that will be set up the building's going up And the really cool part about it, forward thinking part about it, is they have reserved the space in this enormous building to place filtration systems or other devices if there are other chemicals coming downstream that we're not identifying right now. So they're actually forward thinking with that, which I really appreciate. So we will be getting our water from there. And I think we're in good hands with their filtration system.

So that was nice to see.

And I think that's it for now.

Thank you. Mr. Surfer?

I don't have any updates, but I would like to take the time to thank the town of Pittsburgh for their sponsorship of Summerfest. It was a great event. I want to thank all the volunteers and all the people that came. I saw Commissioner Bonitz, Commissioner Hunsiker. I heard you were there. with Rory, although I didn't see you. It was a great event, and I'd like to thank the Pittsburgh Police Department for keeping us safe. It seemed flawless, and it was great to be back on Hillsborough Street. Thanks.

Thank you. Up next is public comment. We don't have anyone signed up this evening. So we will move into public hearings. The first one is a public hearing on the development fees ordinance for fiscal year 2026, 2027. So I'll take a motion to enter the public hearing. So moved. Thank you, Commissioner Foley. Second?

Second.

Commissioner Thurberg, all those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Thank you. Hello.

TAB, Good evening, so we provided details in your packet of the proposed fee schedule which we moved items around so that I also provided the currency schedule, so you could have a comparison because of trying to do a red line version would have been very messy. TAB, If you have any questions on the fee amounts either I will answer those or I will have may come up and answer them because a lot of these are for the planning engineering department.

Any questions on fees? I'll take a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you. Commissioner Hunsaker?

Second.

Second. Commissioner Foley?

All those in favor, say aye. Aye.

I'll take a motion to adopt the development fee ordinance of fiscal year 2026-2027.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Passes. Thank you. Up next, we have an annexation petition for Highcroft Investors LLC and Chatham Park Investors LLC, A-20-26-01 and PB-26-150. So I'll take a motion to enter the public hearing. So moved. Thank you, Commissioner Foley.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Farrell. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Good evening, everyone. The proposed annexation, as previously mentioned, is a voluntary continuous annexation petition for 95.795 acres located south of Highway 64 business and east of Chatham Parkway, which you can see shown on the screen. The existing use is residential agriculture and staff recommends approval of the annexation. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Any questions for staff?

I have a general Chatham Park question for you. Are we contractually obligated to approve this annexation?

I can let the town attorney provide for the legality purposes. But just as a friendly reminder, the preliminary plat for this tract was Womble tract. And the preliminary plat was approved, I believe, at the April 13 Board of Commissioners meeting. So in order for this project to move forward with construction jobs and get that approved, they would have to annex in order to move forward. So I wanted to provide that from a planning perspective on that process.

Chairman Park is obligated to offer it for annexation. And you have a policy that says that if you want public utilities, it has to be annexed. But it is a legislative decision for you all to make. Sure. Thank you.

Yes. Any other questions or comments? Thank you. There's no one signed up for the public hearing. So I'll take a motion to close the public hearing. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, he or she, Mr bonds second second. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, All those in favor say aye. James Forrest, Norcal PTACC, Any opposed, thank you, and I will take a motion to approve the annexation request for voluntary contiguous annexation petition a 20 2601 PB 26 150.

Don't move.

All right. Motion, Commissioner Farrell, second, Commissioner Bonnets. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Up next, we have an action item for the manager's recommended budget for fiscal year 2026-27.

I didn't do a presentation. I just was going to discuss the changes from the version that you saw last meeting at the public hearing and that was in your packet tonight. so the few changes that we made were we removed a position in engineering the transportation position and we've allocated those funds to an assistant project manager and to downtown to fill out the position for the additional downtown position so we allocated so now we have those both fully funded

funds for an in-house town attorney.

We changed the cost of living allocation from 3% to 4%. And we've reduced the merit bonus from 2% to 1% to offset that. And that's just due to the changes in the current market. So we're trying to adjust employee salaries because of the inflation that's currently going on. We moved 5,000 from the parks budget to buildings and grounds department for cleaning supplies just because that position has moved out of parks and is now under public works, but they are also servicing all of the facilities. We changed the health insurance allocation from 18% to 3%. We were able to realize that reduced costs because we switched from Blue Cross Blue Shield to Aetna. And then we also changed the deductibles for our health insurance plans.

I'm sorry, Heather, from 18 to what? 3%.

And then we just reduced the contracted services and police, and we allocated that to personnel within the police department. Those were all the changes. Does anybody have any questions?

I have a bunch.

Okay.

You ready?

Yeah.

Okay. Just educate me a little bit. Do we collect any revenues from properties that are not in Pittsburgh?

Yeah.

There's no revenue coming in. Is there any other revenue coming in that's non-Pittsburgh related?

No.

OK. And then for Tri River, we're no longer receiving that income anymore. So our two major sources of income are ad valorem taxes and sales taxes. Those are the biggest, yeah. Big picture, how are we doing with that? We don't have that source of income anymore. The Tri River?

I mean, yeah, I mean, so that, again, was a totally separate fund. So it's done in itself.

How is the town doing, though, without the income?

We're doing we're doing fine. I mean, our budget is tight, but we're doing we're doing fine.

Most of the time on that enterprise, it was a wash your hands with expenses from chemicals and all like it. Yeah, it was really just wash your hands. Hopefully you didn't go in the hole.

So we did split some funds between the two funds, you know, like finance director, town manager. um positions that covered both of those funds we did share those so now general fund has had to assume 100 of those costs so that was where we did see some initial um you know where it has been harder on the general fund budget but again we're i mean again we're we're doing okay we're balance our budget is balanced we're not using fund balances in the upcoming year thank you for that um

So in the aggregate, there is a $1.3 million other revenue in the budget. Can you describe what the other budget, the other revenues are?

Are you looking at, I think now you're looking at the financials. Is that the financials though? That's not the budget.

This is the financials, the budget ordinance.

He's looking at the financials that were provided as informational.

So let's move on then. So the vehicle tax jumped 17%, that revenue. Is that for those fees that we're starting?

No. So we've had those fees now for two years. So no, it's not that. It's just the value of the vehicle. So that's an estimate that we actually get. via the county so this is the estimated value of the vehicles and then our tax rate is applied to the value of the vehicles plus extra vehicles coming in because there are more people here but that's an estimate that we get from the county yeah

And then licenses and permits were up $200,000 to $200,000, $201,000. What was that?

So that's going to be, that's our estimated due to changes in the fee schedule that was just adopted, plus the expected just flow of applications. So those estimates for any of the development services line items or planning engineering fee line items? Those were done in conjunction with May to determine what we were expecting to receive in revenue.

So you're projecting growth?

Yes.

Understood. And then utilities and franchise taxes were up 20%. to $68 per person.

So that is what I'm estimating based on what we have received so far this year, and just a growth percentage. So the actual growth is not 20%, but it is based on what I budgeted for the last year, but we've actually received more than I budgeted.

Okay.

And

I think that's it. That's it. Thank you.

And your first question was that you asked previously was about the tax increase, the 8%. That is just projected based on the values of our projected property for the upcoming tax year.

Okay.

Just property values. Just property values.

So it has nothing to do with increased sales or not?

No, so sales and use tax, there is, I have projected an increase there, but in terms of the ad valorem tax, that is just due to growth.

Yeah, just increased growth.

Yeah, increased growth, yeah. Thank you. You're welcome.

Any other questions?

How clear is the bigger picture where we're headed? Knowing that we have somebody that is forward thinking and that you're basing these on facts. And some of it, obviously, is you just have to trust the momentum. But I appreciate your work. Thank you.

And I tend to be conservative in my estimates. So that's how we get some excess fund balance at the end of the year. So I would rather be conservative than the opposite.

I agree.

Thank you. Thank you, Ellen. Just thank you to staff for putting this. It's been a relatively easy process for us, but I know it's been a more difficult year than usual. And especially in other communities around here, I hear a lot more difficulty. So appreciate all the work you all put in to make it easier on us.

Yes. Absolutely.

Thank you.

I noticed the haircut. Was that trimming also the fat down? Yeah.

Appreciate that.

Thank you. All right. I'll take a motion to adopt the fiscal year 2026-27 manager's recommended budget. Moved. Thank you, Commissioner Bonds. Second, Commissioner Foley. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Opposed? All right. Up next, we have the salary schedule for the fiscal year 2026-27. Any questions or comments on that? I will take a motion to approve the fiscal year 26-27 salary schedule as required by NCGS 160A-162. Moved. Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets. Second. Again. Commissioner Foley. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Uh, up next is the position control for fiscal year 2627. Any questions on that. Take a motion to approve the fiscal year 2627 position control. Second question referral all those in favor say, aye. All right. Thank you. Up next, we have appointments to the Pittsboro Downtown Advisory Board. We have some recommendations here. Any discussion?

I would like to make a motion to appoint Alex Plummer, Vicki Oldham, Robin Allgood, and Shannon Plummer. with their terms ending on June 30th, 2029, and to appoint Rebecca Dickinson to the Chatham Chamber of Commerce ex officio seat, and to appoint London Crowling to the high school student ex officio seat.

Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Chair Farrell? Second. Any discussion? Thank you, guys. All those in favor, say aye. Hi. Any opposed? All right, you're in. Thank you. Up next, we have an appointment for a Chatham Park section design plan liaison. So this would be a, the South Village section design plan contemplates a planning board or town board liaison at the discretion of the board of commissioners. Is there any discussion on this item?

Yes. Can we kind of talk about the position and what it entails, the responsibilities, and how we're going to be kept in the loop from the liaison? Because I don't see a lot of description of the position. There's no details.

I think it's a good idea. I think we should talk about it a little bit and then probably ask staff to draft some, like a role description kind of for it so that we can know what it is and then get somebody for it. So, Theresa.

Sir? give some context to the reasoning for the liaison position um with this being a continuation of the small area plan um sort of as instead of approving just one large malaria plan we're now dividing it into smaller section design plans um There were a lot of concerns raised by the different boards and the Community, so one of those is being a step, where a board member can be included in the conversations from the very beginning, the collaboration sessions. especially where we sit down with the applicant and talk about the big picture of what the proposed section design plan is before getting into the nitty gritty and having that perspective from the liaison, especially with this being a discretionary decision, still going back to the board and addressing any sort of issues related to public health, safety and welfare, emerging needs. The boards recommended having a liaison there as part of that process.

Can you kind of explain what has already been, because I understand that this appointment is just one of the items that was discussed back in December that needs to be put in a process. Can you explain like what has been put in place for the sectional design process and what still needs to be completed? Also, when are the meetings? Are they a weekly meeting? Why are they being held? Because we are kind of out of the loop, I think, a little on what happens at those meetings. And will this position keep us better informed and how?

Yes, ma'am. So far, we have a 12-page process outline with an approval steps all outlined and a checklist that is ready to go out as part of the first meeting, the actual conceptual with all of the outside review agencies as listed in the SAP and the liaison for the board. The liaison for the board, we get all that documentation and be able to bring it back to the board. That is one part so they can basically do that report back. there's a preliminary schedule for all the meetings through all the process and all the different steps that have to be done when they have to be done in time to go to the planning board to the boc and as well as each additional piece this is actually i'll give this copy to carrie this is that 12 page it actually includes what that process is and she can pass that into The other parts that have been done is we have three examples of the concept plan adjustment as a vicinity map and the section design plans and trying to find the average to present at that first conceptual meeting to make sure that we're going down the right path completely. For during the staff's review of the process that we have outlined, this is one of the items that was outlined that we made to have this liaison in place. Also, we have to determine how public comment is going to be done. That is still one of the items on the list, how we're going to post it, how we're going to communicate it to the public. We have received the model for transportation as the no-build for the 2045. We have already commented and sent some of the issues back that need to be addressed. We have not come to a full decision on how to deal with the TIAs yet. That is still one item. And then the financial report has been sent to administration for review. So those are the items right now were the last pieces that were made. Whoever is going to be that liaison would have access to all information to help work through that for the final piece of our process during that meeting.

And TIA being traffic impact analysis. Yes, sir.

So Chatham Park's model has been submitted to staff. The TIAs, are they noted in that model? And when do we see those?

So the model has been submitted, not noted in there. Currently, that process has not been decided. They have, whether it's going to be at Fiction Design Plan or at the Plumbing Area Platte, the comment was made of how to make that work if they're going to have the swap from the parks. what would be the best point to do it at a section design plan versus a preliminary plan but no agreement has been met. We have recorded those meetings. That's the last meeting specifically getting to the point where we're talking about those items. So we are working through that. Sorry. The model piece itself, the comments has roads that were originally not studied. included for the no-build, and a majority of those do not currently work. So they're in the – we have an example of that model to pass along as well.

I can give some reasoning for the TIA stipulation on being preliminary plan versus section design plan. Originally, as per the small area plan, transportation impact analysis is required at that time. In speaking with the applicant in some of the larger sections, it was discussed that it might be possible where there is a small section that the applicant would like to move forward on, that there's a, we could require the TIA at the plenary plot. And then when that TIA is submitted, it would be for the entire section design plan. Again, this conversation as being in May in the section design plan language that was adopted in the small area plan was contingent on being approved by the town board for one. So if it worked out where there was a small section that the staff felt comfortable allowing the TIA to wait until the promoting plot, That would be a reason why staff would recommend doing it that way. Otherwise, the intent of the language is for the transportation impact analysis to be done prior to the section design plan approval. And that basically is what the plan step would have been. And in addition, with the no-build model at the time, it wasn't approved, staff allowed the small area plan or recommended the small area plan to be approved contingent on that no-build model. So at the time that we had these conversations, none of that information was known, the issues with potential onsite and offsite improvements based on the no-build, the results of the no-build model. As Mr. Armstrong was saying, that there is some.

So currently that no bill model is not approved by staff. It only has been submitted and commented to at this point. And then there are no process for the TIAs that has been finalized and outlined.

Sorry, I'm off this.

So we have not finalized what the process for the TIA looks like. That has not been done. And the model itself has been submitted, commented on, but not approved by staff.

that make sense in the context of why the language is proved that way what about the fiscal impact studies do you get numbers for those with each section design plan or is that annual and does that include I know we've talked about it before both revenue and expenses so is it I know that they have submitted their yearly version of that

to administration, but they were expecting to get the comments back to present that in August. But there are no individual ones that have been outlined as of yet.

So could we ask for those to be asked for the TIAs and the fiscal impact reports be part of those?

Can we require that to be part of the submittal of the SDPs? My understanding, the answer would be yes, because this is discretionary. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Discretionary ties back to what I was saying before with emerging needs and public health, safety and welfare. So when it goes through the staff review, we go through all the requirements that's listed in the small area plan, which may explain we have a, I think, nine page checklist of everything that we look at. Based on that, we give a recommendation to the town board. just like we did for the small area plan. So if the applicant does not want to submit the TIA at the section design plan and staff's recommendation is that it should be based on all the issues I just described, the town board has discretionary decision on that as well, including the no-build information that we have now that we didn't have prior to, then that would be the discretion of the town board. Staff cannot require it. But we can give a recommendation on why it should be.

So would this liaison be an observer or they be like negotiating or advising?

They're part of the review committee. So just they would be included in asking questions and understanding what's the big picture issues going on with the development as a whole versus kind of getting that conversation complete before we dig into the minor issues that I don't think the liaison would need to be involved with as much at that point.

So in that same vein, we can then ask the liaison, the board can ask liaison to ask a question or make a statement. during discussions.

The purpose of the coordination meeting session is to see potential concerns. And that's the reason why it was requested by the applicant, agreed upon by the applicant.

So we had a great deal of tension, I'll call it, last November regarding legislative powers being given away, and I think this liaison position might enhance our standing with the public, knowing that we have direct communication through the liaison. That's a statement, not a question.

I agree with you. Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Any other comments or questions?

I would like to make a motion to appoint Corey Forrest on the planning board.

Is there a second?

I think if this is a discussion now or? OK. So I would like to wait until we get true definition of the roles of the individual is required to have as a liaison before we push forward that idea. I'd like to hear anybody else talk about it.

I think it could be important to define what this role is specifically before we point someone to it.

Is that not what Theresa and Majus did?

uh i don't think it's completely clear from that but um and i think in with our current legal situation i think it'd be smart to have a defined written role before we do that i concur oh mayorship uh

Would you be willing to craft that draft based on what we've heard from staff and your understanding of concerns in the community and on this board?

Sure. I'll work with staff and the board attorney on that. Yeah.

Yeah.

To bring it back next month. Is that good for staff or?

Is there, would this additional month of delay pose any impacts on staff or on the developer?

might be able to develop their schedule. They would like to submit, I think, six this year. So we're going to update the schedule for the rest of the year. So it will be based on whatever they cast the breath where it is submitted.

Should we maybe, if it is going to cause a developer an issue, should we appoint an interim until such time that we have the actual

divine role i don't think it actually delays yeah we have time do we need a motion to do that or just do it bring it back i think a motion would be good we have a motion on the floor well okay so is there a second to jay's motion commissioner

my question is what more do we need from a liaison and do we're going to have requirements for this liaison to to go to these meetings with these kind of requirements it's pretty much self-explanatory in the back page right here

Well, is there a second to Commissioner Farrell's motion? Motion fails for lack of a second. I will take a motion for the mayor and staff and the board attorney to work on a role description for the liaison and bring it back next month.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Foley. Second, Commissioner Onsinker. Any other discussion? All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Aye.

Thank you. Up next is Parks and Rec Advisory Board resolution.

OK. Maybe, sorry.

We are looking today to revamp our, right now the parcel rec advisory board is in the code of ordinances and we are looking to take that out of the ordinances and put it as a resolution. So please let me know if you have any questions.

What is the purpose?

So the purpose of this is the way that it's in the ordinance right now it's the only one this four minutes and then it's a little bit vague on. what responsibilities and everything would be. And so now that we're especially revamping what the advisory board roles are going to be, we want to take each section and really monitor it. And another part of it is, as you can see in the resolution, is currently we have four in town members and three ETJ members. And since the population has grown and we're also getting so much active participation, especially from the in-town residents, we want to shift that to maybe a max of two ETJ members with the opportunity, depending on what applications begin. Yes.

Can you elaborate on your suggestion that the ordinance is vague?

Well, there are some situations in there that are from the feedback that we have gotten over the past couple of months is that it is not reflective on what we have been doing or what they want to be doing, what we want to be doing and what direction we should go forward. So this is to help give a little reset and describing what this role for a person on the Parks and Rec Advisory Board will do.

I'm still vague. I'm not following this. Why is this resolution not just enhanced ordinances? Why can't we change the ordinance? Why resolution?

Okay. I am not the expert in ordinances, so I'm going to pass that to somebody who is an expert in the ordinances.

A resolution is less formal than an ordinance. You're creating an advisory body. You're not making it a law. You're creating an advisory body that may be changed in the future. You may do away with it in the future. And it's easier to do that with a resolution than it is to do it with an ordinance.

I understand what you're saying, but I still don't follow the law.

I'm not sure why it's in the code of ordinances, because I don't think it was adopted as an ordinance in the first place. I think it was a resolution, but it's in there. And it doesn't need to be in there.

Does the downtown business association, no, does the planning department have, does the planning board have a resolution also?

Yes. They do. So the parts of record measure board is the only board that's in the code of ordinances, other than the board of commissioners.

The Planning Board's in there. Planning Board's required by state law, though. Sorry. It's the only advisory board, isn't it?

Code of Ordinances. Can you, Katie, can you talk about Section 5, Item B? And the member cells served two years, staggered, maximum two consecutive terms. Can you talk about there is there's something called intellectual capital that you you want to maintain retain if you can let's say you have an extraordinary contributor but an extraordinary contributor to this is four years and that person is gone is that correct do you any reason why you want to restrict that so i also think

This is very common in a lot of the boards that we have done research in, and this is common in, I believe, the parks or the planning board has the same rule, if I'm not mistaken, of wanting just to have fresh ideas and new things, especially as a growing time, just wanting to have maybe having someone else in the opportunity to be in that seat.

Are you allowing this extraordinary person, whoever this maybe it's you know, they were born to do it. Can they then reapply or not?

Word. Well, if they've had their max of two.

Max of two and that's it.

Two consecutive means two back to back. Two. They can stay off a term and then come back on it. Okay. So, okay.

May I jump in on that point? I don't like to kind of change horses midstream. And if there is a good person that I would like to keep them on and not be forced to lose that person because of a calendar. The other thing is it is the board of commissioners responsibility to make appointments. And if we feel that that person has stale ideas or we need new ideas or new people on the board, then that falls with us to do that when the appointments are made. So I think that the board can decide if that person has served enough terms and not have it forced upon the board. I think that's kind of taking away our responsibility and the authority from the board. And that kind of rolls into another point on that. which is attendance. I can just leave it at that for that and then I can go into attendees after and the removal of a board member. So it says that if any board member is removed for any of the aforementioned reasons, which include prolonged illness, or a family member or due to sickness, they are ineligible to ever serve on the board again. And I would like to say that I think that's a little extreme. Take, for example, let's say a woman has breast cancer and has to and is sick. She's been moved. Now she's in remission. She is now ineligible to ever serve again. Or if you had a family member who is sick and you could not serve, you could never serve again. I think that needs to be reworded to not be so harsh. I agree.

Me too. I have something to change it like at the discretion of the board can be added. Something like that, where we maintain some power and there's also some positivity when it comes to that. I'd hate to have you lose somebody, Katie. That's really good because of the language of this resolution. That makes sense. Watching your back.

Yeah. And I think these all say too that parent member may be removed by majority vote. So these are discretionary kind of conditions as well. But I think if we remove the shall not be able to be reappointed in the future, it leaves it up to the board for future appointments. Is there any other?

Just to kind of mention, several years back when we were discussing this, maybe months too though, we had boards that we had the same people on them because nobody was applying. And you'd send the applications out and applications out, put them back in the paper, put them back on the website. Nobody was willing to work and volunteer on these boards. So that was before we came up to this, you know, the two terms and get some fresh ideas, bring some new people in to the town that's moved just recently in the town. from other areas and that that was the reason for that right there i mean we spend times where we've had nobody apply for boards i would say that times are changing um 60 people look outside yeah 60 people applied for pdab yes um

and i don't know i i was on the first the first round of pdab and like you said there was nobody and now there's an abundance of applicants that's exactly why i'm just saying that's do you want to keep the same uh seven members on for 30 years i mean i think if you're a great member sure

Well, that goes again to the board makes that appointment. So if the board feels that they are the best seven members, then fine. But if they have 60, well then, absolutely, the board makes the appointments, not a document. And I think the board should make the decision whether or not somebody serves, not a document.

If you would like to delete the term limit, you just take the second sentence of B out. Sorry? Delete the second sentence of B.

Yes. Yes.

I have greater concerns than just minor edits. So overall, I'm reading this document noting the word ambassador that it seems like a shrinking of the role of the Parks and Rec Advisory Board. at a time when I think our community most needs an increase in expansion of public input and participation. Um, as we grow rapidly, I think we need to have three ETJ members. Uh, we're going to be growing into the ETJ. We're not growing parks in town at this moment in our evolution. Um, not as many and, um, There will be some infill parks now that I think about that, but our vast expansion of acreage is going to be out in the ETJ. That's where the impacts will be, positive and negative. And I want to hear more from the ETJ, not less. So I'd very much support having three rather than two ETJ reps. Commissioner Hunsaker, in our conversation, I think you were concerned about even having any limit. Do you want to speak to more about that?

Well, I was looking at it like, Morgan, I think the board has the final authority on who is appointed. And if three absolutely stellar people come on, apply, and they happen to be ETJ, I kind of look at it like ETJ today, PBO tomorrow. And I would hate to say, No, because you're going to be annexed next year. I think, again, it's the board's responsibility to pick the best people. And so I kind of, I agree with Commissioner Bonitz on that.

So what was your rationale, educate me, of going from three to two?

Well, I did it for up to two people at ETJ because for people that are in town, they are taxpayers. And I felt that especially prime example of this round 14 out of the 16 applicants were in town members. And if you have three out of the seven for ETJ, then Yeah, this is very lopsided. So I can and again, it goes back to they are members of the ETA are not paying tax, their taxes are not going to the town of Pittsburgh. So especially as the growth that we're having, maybe that should

Katie, let me ask you a question on that point, and I'm not trying to belabor this point, but right now we have a whole bunch of applicants, which is great. But what happens if we don't? And four seats come vacant, and we don't have enough applicants to fill them. Do they just stay vacant because we might have to pick somebody else from the ETJ? Again, I think that That's something that the board should take into consideration, what the current makeup of the board is, where they reside, who the applicants are, and then the responsibility to have a well-balanced board with ETJ and in town or whatnot relies on us for those appointments.

Did you say up to three people for the ETJ or are you saying no, absolutely have to have three members of the ETJ like it is currently?

i don't think i would say we had to have any or a limit i think we should look at what the current board makeup is and it's our responsibility to make a a judgment on is this a well-weighted board um we may find that all of the parks that are going to be built out like you were just saying well right now we do have some infill ones but what if all the parks are etj maybe at that point it would walk but it will be you have to be in town they have to be

And one point of clarification, if I may, a lot of the land that's being annexed is raw land. It's not existing homeowners. So to say that the ETJ is PBO tomorrow is correct if it's raw land and if it's being annexed for subdivisions, but existing residences in the ETJ, I don't think they're very likely to annex because there's just more taxes they have to pay. So that was, yeah.

Well, I guess that goes to what's our definition of who we're responsible to. And I feel a very broad sense of responsibility in this community because the, what is it, 5,000 people, approximately 6,000 people who live in town are just a fraction of the people who represent Pittsburgh, in my opinion. Our border is porous. People come in and out all day long. People do business here. People work in town and live just outside the town limits. So again, it's really important to me that we have ETG representation that's very strong. And again, because the additional parks are going to be in the South Village predominantly, I think there needs to be more folks from that area. regardless of whether they are town residents or taxpayers. They're a part of the community. The other piece here, if I could elaborate on this ambassador idea, I have understood the Parks and Rec Advisory Board to be an advisory board that gives feedback to our staff, and to the board of commissioners. And I think that it's actually explicit in the current language that it also should give feedback to the planning board. And I see that as a two-way channel and Ambassador feels more like, I mean, this is my language, but a kind of a public relations extension. And that's concerning to me. Uh, I'm sorry, Ms. Keller, but in point this very memorandum, which presents a resolution that presumes to completely rework the structure and function of our parks and rec advisory board has no input from the parks and rec advisory board. It wasn't presented to the, to pair up and, or if it was their feedback wasn't recorded in the memo. So. I think that's a problem.

But John, I disagree with you on that because I don't believe that's the advisory board's decision to do a resolution for the town. It should be our legal and our administration. That's an excellent point, Jay.

And let's put a real, excuse me, Commissioner Farrell, that's an excellent, and let's put a real fine point on it. They also are not responsible for the budget. But in our current ordinance, they are responsible to give input and feedback on the budget. And we're not doing that. We're not asking that of them. I think that's very important. I think it's really important because in this day and age when we're all strapped so tight, we want to know that our taxes are being spent properly. And I want advisory boards help in making those determinations. I believe in this thing called participatory budgeting and city of Durham is doing and other communities are doing it. We have a budget survey that steps in that direction of gathering public feedback on our budget process. But this is a very rigorous idea of having an advisory board give input on how the next year's budget should be shaped. I think that's important. I think that's valuable.

i disagree with that because it is an advisory board to the town to us it's an advisory board to us if they want to say they want to spend x amount of money on this project or this project then that would come to katie to us but i just don't i don't believe that's their place to uh

to budget funding i again i think that we're we're maybe we're not defining it properly my hope and expectation is that the parks and rec advisory board will take action according to the ordinances and the the language in the ordinance maybe staff can help with that what is the current ordinance as it's as regards the budget

Or parallel. And another point of clarification. I believe it was October I was directed to rewrite the pair of ordinance. Directed you? This board did. In what session? It was in a closed session.

I was in that closed session. I don't remember anyone directing you. I remember the mayor expressing an interest in it. That's not what I recalled.

And apologies that it's taken this long to get here.

Well, I think either way, it's here for us to consider whatever. I don't remember an exact genesis, but.

As regards to budget.

Mr. Monitz, could you maybe explain what that would look like? Would there be a meeting where they would go through a potential budget and give it to Katie and then she would bring it to, how would you see their involvement?

Yeah, I think that's a fine idea that staff would present to the Parks and Rec Advisory Board staff's plan for the next year before it's delivered to the manager. And that would increase public input and public support.

Yes, Section 8, to advise and assist in the preparation of the Parks and Recreation Department budget.

Or it could be as simple as the members of the Parks and Rec Advisory Board saying, hey, we really think that this is a hot issue. It needs attention in your budget. We hope you'll present that in your budget to the manager.

Is that something that occurs now or?

So we have done that in the past. The reason why it wasn't really magnified this year was because a lot of times we have been directed from the beginning that there was not a lot of room for growth in the budgets and that there were not going to be projects that were funded because we were going to be strapped in the next coming year. So instead, I chose to focus on some other things because the budget was as it is strictly operational. We have focused on the goals that we have gotten the year before and the year before I did in the last several years, I've always gotten their input on, hey, which projects would you prioritize? Example, one of their goals has been To have a bathroom at each public park and we are well on our way to achieving some of those baby steps it in that way, but that is the reason why to Mr bonus points for this specific year that the budget was not leaned on or focused on as heavily this year.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think it's an, that would be, it is an unusual constraint for a department and we don't have advisory board input on a public works budget or administration budget or things like that. Like we're the managers responsible to create the budget and we're responsible to approve the budget. And I think that, you know, we do, we do get feedback on, on all of those things, but I don't, I don't think that that constraint on one department is good. I think the reality too, when that was created, whether it was resolved or ordained, we had a kind of part-time parks and rec department out of the planning department. So I think that the recognition now of a larger parks and rec department and a professional staff that advises us, and I think we've seen other places as well, limit or eliminate advisory boards with that recognition that there you know wasn't there's a different function served by them now, and I think this is a good recasting of the function, while maintaining the advisory function of of parrot.

So I do remember you. saying that mayorship in the closed session and your observation that other communities are minimizing or even eliminating advisory boards. My response, I don't recall if I said that then is that those communities are very mature communities. They are not growing. They are certainly not growing as rapidly as we are. And I think as rapidly as we are growing and where the growth of parks will be. I think really puts a much greater importance on public input. and The role of volunteers in the parks and REC advisory board so.

Okay. We've heard a few items. Any other, any questions or comments? Other questions or comments?

As a point of clarification, section nine, it was the last members removed pursuant to this probably shall not continue to serve and shall not be eligible to be reappointed to the pair of in the future. That entire sentence or just a portion of it. Just the last half of that.

They should not continue to serve, I guess, mean that their term is over at that point and shall not continue to continue to serve period.

In section five Part B members shall serve a maximum two consecutive terms like that. And then

Do we have anything in here about members participating in budgetary suggestions? Yes, sir. That might be something we want to add. Thank you. Not making budgetary decisions, but participating in recommendations. That would feel like empowering if I was on that board.

Thank you.

How many members do we have? Are we agreeing on seven members and two ETJs? Well, I didn't get a clear indication where the board was. Unlimited, that sounds.

I think unlimited doesn't make a lot of sense. But what is the purpose of only having seven?

That's what it was whenever I got here.

I think there's a functional size of a board that's useful.

I think that there is something to be said for not too many people in the room as well.

Well, I would disagree because PDAB has a lot of people on the board. I would say at least 20 members and they have a really good time and they get along and there's lots of great ideas that come through. And I think if there was only seven, we wouldn't have as much imagination and creativity and all of those things. I would like to see more members on that board.

I was thinking of suggesting nine members. Yeah, PDAB is 11 voting, 7 ex officia. 18.

Almost 20.

Yeah.

11 voting.

I think that's the board. 11 voting. And this is, I'm remembering back to the larger advisory board policy discussion from last month, but there was something in there about a restriction of no one under the age of 18. And I was thrilled that there is an ex officio member from a high school who I would guess might very well be younger than 18. And so maybe we can consider revising that language both here in Arab and in the overall advisory board policy to be a little bit more open to youthful participation in an ex-officio capacity perhaps. I'm just going to go ahead and propose, see if we can get just kind of a rough straw poll in support of a firm three, not to exceed three ETJ members. I see some heads nodding.

I agree. Fine with that.

Okay. If you did a non-member board with three ETJ. Yeah.

We can reassess this time next year. and we're going to be hopping next year this time. That's true. That's true.

And I would like to suggest some board training for Para.

The thing about this to particularly in a resolution now is that it should be a little bit more of a living document, and we can see how it goes see what like the agreement applications may shift over time, we have a wealth of applications now I think for a lot of reasons. And so, if that changes in time we don't get applications, we could come back and change things as well easily, but I think at some point, you know we've got to. make it to change it in the future. Sure. Yeah.

Since you brought up applications, I would like to just mention that I think our applications need to be a little bit more in depth for all of the advisory boards, especially when you see that somebody may put on their application that they want to serve on every single one of the advisory boards. I think it would be very helpful to come up with some open-ended questions that are applicable to the board, such as if you're going on para but might say, where do you think we are doing well with our parks? Where do you think we are falling short? What was the last park you went to? Something so we can see that they are really engaged with it, not just, I want to be on one of these advisory boards. Maybe something with PDAB, it might be, where do you think our strengths downtown are and where do you think? So we are getting a little bit more of what they bring to the table. And I think that something like that will also help those vetting the applicants, because you might go, oh, wow, that's a really good idea we never thought of. So I would like to see something more than what boards would you like to serve on, probably because we lived in town, and basically your CV.

Yeah.

Can we instruct staff to come up with some open-ended questions to revise the applications going forward so we have a little bit more depth to them?

Got that HR almost vetting, right? Is that what you're trying to say?

Exactly.

You know, the big picture, parks is our shining star in Pittsburgh. And the more we can pay attention to this advisory board, I think it's going to pay off because it creates families coming downtown. It's an economic driver. And the more we can do for your departments to make it a special and shining example in the center of North Carolina, the better we can do. Yeah.

Thank you, Mr. Foley. Well put. And I'll elaborate to say that the parks are one of most With regard to the parks and the public, the interface is most vibrant right there. Our parks are one of the biggest and most common touches with the public. So yeah. And that's only going to grow. Exactly.

Yeah.

So I'll move that we table this for these revisions plus incorporation of additional written feedback from whomever wishes to present that and hopefully bring it back at the next board meeting.

Is there a second?

A second.

OK. One question. Can you just quickly go over these revisions?

the revisions i have i think i think we were aligned on was uh section five item a would be up to three etj members instead of two okay section five item b would be removing the term limits wait this one seven was that going to nine i thought it was good with that i think commissioner thurber's idea is correct And then that's section 9, item 5, we remove the never reappointed language.

What else was there? Just the addition of some budget to number 9. I'm sorry.

Oh, your budgetary. The patient? Feedback or suggestions.

All right, I'm getting three or four answers. One of them at the time, please. Sorry.

So number nine, item five, the second half of that. Okay. So number five would just say members removed pursuant to this policy should not continue to serve. Gotcha. And then so 5A would say the board shall consist of nine members and then no more than three may reside within the town's ETJ.

Do we have anything in number nine down there regarding the attendance, please?

It's in there.

Nothing was said regarding the prolonged illness. But we drew that.

Well, it says may be removed for reasons. So that's up to the board's discretion if somebody was removed for that.

And absences due to sickness shall be regarded as approved absences.

And the age limit, where does the age limit?

It's a separate policy. Okay. It's not approved. Yeah. Yeah, we just got the final draft last week.

I, again, reiterate that I think that this policy needs to be more affirmative and less restrictive and more active and engaged rather than confining these volunteers to an ambassador role. And I'd love to hear other commissioners' thoughts on this if you have thoughts on it.

I think it describes a lot more than an ambassador role. That term is in there in one of the lines.

I think in comparison to the prior policy, it's a confinement of responsibilities. It's a contraction of roles and responsibilities. It's changed, certainly.

You regard it, excuse me, Commissioner, the limitations on authority, Yeah. I don't have any issues with that.

You know, legalistically, I don't have any issues either, but in a policy document, I mean, are we trying to recruit, are we trying to make people feel inspired and valued or make them feel suspected and, uh,

uh penalized i understand we're just saying commissioner bonnets it does feel oppressive it's like someone's putting a sign up on on the wall as you walk down the hall in school you know the same thing we really need those limitations on authority in this resolution do we

I'm sure.

yeah. I think a clear role definition is very helpful for everybody.

Okay.

I agree with some of the limitations on authority might be a little like you said no, no, no, but as far as to dress your point on. and the, you know, promote awareness and access. I think having that in there, I think it's C and D. I think that is, it's not saying you must promote or you must serve as an active ambassador, but I think it's good to tell them that. I think that's a pat on the back. You're an ambassador for our parks. Our parks are You know, I like to joke that we're Circle City, but we're almost Park City. So I think that's empowering, actually.

But I agree with some of the language in the... Well, I am reading, not to step on you, but I'm reading Section 10C. I think we had an issue with that this year, did we not? Budgetary authority. Oh. So maybe we should keep these up.

So Mr. Bonds, would you be willing to modify your motion for those changes?

To reward it, maybe, so it's less oppressive?

I think my motion still stands that I was asking that this be tabled until the next meeting with incorporation of what's been discussed plus additional written feedback that any commissioners would like to deliver. That's perfect. Um, and I'm going to go ahead and elaborate now to, to, to, to make my further, my point about the role and engagement, um, our current. Mayor Mrakas, pair of guidelines ordinance is it includes to inform and interpret the needs of the general public to the governing body and the town manager. Mayor Mrakas, We have. Mayor Mrakas, To inform and interpret. Mayor Mrakas, In this new draft.

Mayor Mrakas, No.

commissioner bonnets i would say that the reason that it's not the same in the in the current version is because of what manager franklin said was that we were amending it to reflect the current nature of our or maybe it was um mayorship we're reflect we're changing it to reflect the current nature of our of the town and the staff that we have who the staff are doing that to the board So the advisory board is not necessarily doing that piece. But prior, when this was first established, the advisory board was established. We did not have the staff that we have. meaning we didn't have that well taken point well taken so so part of of amending it is to reflect that we now have staff we have a parks department that parks department is only going to get bigger and we're going to have staff that are able to do some of the functions that the advisory board was previously maybe outlined in that ordinance to do sure i still think there's a need for

our volunteer Parks and Rec Advisory Board to inform and interpret the needs of the public to the board and to staff.

Is there any other discussion on the motion to delay?

You can put that in writing and we can consider it.

Thank you. to serve as a forum in introducing innovative and new ideas, concepts, programs, policies, and procedures. When I've heard of efforts from PARIP members to do that, it has not fallen on fertile ground. And this is one of the reasons why I'm so motivated and driven to persuade this board to ask for an improvement to this policy.

All those in favor of Commissioner Bonita's motion? You can say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? All right. Motion passes. Next, we have Parks and Rec Advisory Board appointments. I would recommend we wait on those until we have the policy.

especially if we're going to be on the board.

Thank you.

I move that we table that until next month.

Thank you. Second. Commissioner Foley? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed?

All right. Commissioner, if I could request a motion. Mr. Hunsinger, you mentioned revisiting the application.

Yes.

If that is the will of the board, I would need a motion for that. So moved.

Second.

Can we state it?

Okay, so I make a motion that we revise the application to include some open-ended questions that give us a deeper look into the applicant as far as their thoughts on where we can improve or what we're doing well.

Thank you. Second.

Second.

Mr. Thurber, all those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Are we going to just keep these applications here only, leave it open another month?

I think we'd probably re-advertise after we do the policy.

That push, any appointments till August or September?

Please.

I think if we're going to re-ask the board and change the size and change the representation, we should do that.

Okay, hold on one second. Because then I'm curious if the terms that are currently on, if their term is expiring in June. There'd be a language where they would continue to serve because that was in the resolution that. They serve until their successors. Yeah, that was in the resolution. We don't need to take action on that. But is that in the default? That is the default. All right. That answers my question.

Thank you.

If they're willing. All right.

If they're willing.

Okay. Are we good to move on? All right, up next is the Pittsburgh Downtown Annual Overview and Work Plan. Theresa?

Good evening, Mayor and Commissioners. Theresa Thompson, Downtown Development Director. For a warning, there are 39 or 40 slides, but I will try to get through as quickly as possible. I always get a little excited about PowerPoints. Feel free to stop me any time if you have questions. Also wanted to recognize some of our board and committee members that were able to make it tonight. Shannon Plummer, newly appointed Alex Plummer, Vicki Odom, Rebecca Dickinson from the Chamber and also on PDAB, and Claire Kane on our Economic Vitality Committee. I'm representing the downtown Pittsboro fiscal year 26-27 annual work plan, providing an overview of what we've been up to the past few months. So before discussing the work plan itself, I wanted to acknowledge that downtown Pittsburgh success is truly a community effort. Our downtown program requires collaboration. And again, requires it between the town board, downtown advisory board, business owners, property owners, volunteers, organizations such as the chamber, small business center, EDC, business association, Rotary Club, lots of other organizations, countless citizens, and everyone who simply cares about the future of Pittsburgh and downtown Pittsburgh. Including you. Yes, staff as well. Downtown revitalization does not happen because of one person or one organization. It happens because an entire community decides that having a vibrant downtown matters. Unfortunately, Pittsburgh has embraced that philosophy and I'm grateful for the support we continue to receive for that. Keep forgetting we have a clicker here. To understand the work plan, it's important to first understand the vision that guides it. Our vision statement describes what downtown Pittsburgh wants to become, while the mission statement describes how we all work together to get there. Using the Main Street four point approach, you can see in the shape at the top right corner. It includes organization, economic vitality, design and promotions. This balanced approach addresses economic development, planning, beautification, tourism, partnerships and community engagement together rather than trying to tackle all those in isolation. And our three primary goals is to strengthen downtown Pittsburgh as a center of an eclectic and innovative economy, support as a vibrant arts and cultural destination, and foster our unique character as an inclusive and welcoming place for everyone. And these goals are the foundation of our work plan. Work plan serves as the roadmap For the downtown advisory board and committees and teams and town staff for the upcoming year. It builds on the recommendations from the 2023 plan and the 2014 downtown vision plan, along with other adopted plans. I wanted to note that many of our plans or projects, as you can see, say carry over as we were not able to finish several of the initiatives, having a late start around December, January. So several of them have been delayed. As a result, we're going to focus on advancing projects already underway before adding new projects. starting with the first pillar, organization. This focuses on building partnerships, volunteering, collaboration, and community support. The Downtown Advisory Board serves as our coordinating body that helps guide priorities and implementation. It consists of 11 voting members, and we've found that number to be very effective. It's large enough to bring a diverse group of viewpoints and expertise. while also keeping it productive and collaborative. And while the board itself meets one hour a month, we have created the informal working teams. So under the organization or PDAP, the teams are listed there, starting with the PDAP connectors. um we ask all volunteers and their board members committee members anyone else to pick one to three uh projects from the work plan and that is basically time spent implementing action items on top of their one hour committee and board meetings as there's not a whole lot of implementation that can happen just one hour a month

Before you go on, Theresa, can you add my name to the EDC Corporation ex officio position? I'll be cheering you on.

And we can try to have that go to the town board the next month then. Because tonight we had Rebecca from the chamber as ex officio.

so um i think the way our resolution is she's with the chamber yeah that's that position is for someone from the adc oh yeah on this point okay so yeah you're already the representative to the edc right right so i can't do i can't straddle okay well thank you anyways i appreciate that um i can come though of course and we have been talking to philip prompson

um and he actually came to the last piano meeting as well so he might be interested So regarding the vision plan, this is one of our most important priorities this upcoming fiscal year. The original vision plan was adopted in 2014. Since then, Pittsburgh has experienced tremendous growth, and we adopted a land use plan, completed many other studies, as you can see on the screen. So the vision plan is going to help establish a shared vision for downtown. um and the goal to the vision plan is creating an actual working plan uh with uh timelines priorities budgets for the next 10 to 20 years and not just be a plan that kind of just sits on a shelf that no one ever looks at this would be something that would help guide all of our annual work plans for the next several years as well We also are looking to have a annual downtown celebration where we can thank volunteers and businesses conducted annual bus tour, PDAB retreat, which that has been scheduled. We were able to have one before July 1 for this fiscal year. And we are organizing a volunteer recruitment event. As you all saw for the PDAB appointments, we received, I think, at least 60 applications just for PDAB. We probably have received at least another 30 or 40 just general inquiry for volunteer. applications so that that would take a lot of time to reach out to all those individually so we're going to have a volunteer recruitment event where it's kind of like a job fair and we'll have the different um areas of downtown where you'll have your own little booth and people can go to and learn more about it we also had internal um kind of like an internal work plan And that includes strengthening all the partnerships, expanding training opportunities, improving areas identified in our assessment. We were accredited again. But there are items that the North Carolina program asked us to work on. So we're going to spend time on trying to make those issues better and work on more grants, try to network more and learn more from other downtown directors, and just enhance collaboration and communication in general. Moving on to the second pillar, it's economic vitality. And you can see the Economic Vitality Committee members on the right. We have three teams, Bizbooster, Streetscape Stars, and the Downtown Dream Team. All of these volunteers, they help focus on strengthening downtown's long-term economic future through business retention, business expansion, entrepreneurship, redevelopment, and strategic growth. That's within our downtown and our downtown support areas. And a healthy downtown that supports local jobs, attracts visitors, generates tax revenue, and contributes significantly to community identity and quality of life. So that's our goal for economic vitality. And this is the area that I intend to hopefully be able to spend a lot more of my time building up this upcoming fiscal year. Our main projects are reviewing UDO standards. So our phase one is the downtown overlay district, which there is a text amendment that would be going to, it already went to the downtown advisory board. It would be going to the planning board next. And we have phase two and phase three already planned for that. And we also, everything that we do, we try to tie it to our comprehensive plan. So you can see at the bottom of the screens where it references the different goals listed in the Pittsburgh land use plan. Along with that, phase one is zoning assistance for small businesses, which basically helping the businesses get through the permitting process. So zoning and county permitting, attending the scoping and pre-submittal meetings, helping businesses know what kind of questions they should ask at that time so that there aren't any surprises along the way. And looking at specific issues related to downtown, such as growth and traffic, things like that. We also talk about what kind of programs we have, such as grants with the new potential businesses. And our main software program, OpenGov, that's something else that we're trying to help small businesses kind of navigate. Phase two is the PDAB receiving feedback on proposed downtown projects. It has not been submitted officially, but there's a discussion of a project on East Street that applicants have met with the Downtown Advisory Board twice now and have received a lot of informative feedback on the site and what's important to the community. We're gonna continue having small business classes are through partnerships with Chamber of Commerce and CCCC Small Business Center. And we've done that two years in a row now. Phase three is creating checklists for all the different permits. And you can see there's different permits there making that easier, black and white for business owners that are trying to either expand or open a new business or even existing businesses that are trying to understand the event process. After that, we would update open good applications as need be. And we've already started having conversations with Chatham County staff in regards to how we can integrate going from the Pittsboro applications easier to then know what's the next step. Do you go to the inspections portal or health department portal? It can be quite confusing.

Yeah.

And we're doing this in coordination with the Small Business Center, Philip Pappas, who also assists businesses in opening more on the logistical side, and the Chamber of Commerce, who's also having conversations through their governmental affairs committee. Phase four would be taking all this information and packaging it where it's reader-friendly on our website. So you can see on the right there, we've planned how it would look. And each of those dropdown boxes would be like the steps you would go through, basically your business roadmap.

Thompson, I just wanna say, yay. That's the part that really gets me excited. What I've heard from constituents and even people who don't live in town, but trying to start businesses in town.

Yes, sir. And I would like to say yay too. It's very exciting.

A lot of projects, there's already been several concerns that we've been able to address going through this process. Another initiative is expanding our Placer AI marketing data to provide for the downtown businesses. A quick comparison here, it's just a snapshot, but you can see the difference between the Doherty's in Pittsburgh versus Apex. Doherty's visitors increased by 406.3% year over year, while the Apex is down 3%. And that's just a snapshot. And whenever you have a brand new business, that's not unexpected to see that kind of increase. And when you have an established business, that's unexpected to see a slight decrease as well. But Placer data can really give really informative information for businesses on how to move forward. And obviously what Doherty's is doing now in Pittsburgh is working because it's increasing year over year. Just want to throw these slides in. This is overall downtown Pittsburgh information. There's 216,000 visitors coming downtown on average, 6.91 times per year. I rated 1.5 million annual visits, which actually is really high for a small downtown. There's information on where visitors originate and where they're going next after they leave downtown. Something else that we're trying to communicate well with downtown businesses is the hours that we see the most foot traffic consistently is 6 p.m. seven days a week. So working with that place or package for the individual businesses tailoring it for them to understand that when they close at five that's a missed opportunity. Average day is around 53 minutes and Friday is the most visited day, Saturday close second. I'm wanting to talk a little bit about why economic vitality matters. It strikes through proactive planning, investment and collaboration. So downtowns are often viewed as the heart of a community and it's a measure of the community's overall health. A vibrant downtown supports local businesses, creates opportunities for entrepreneurship, generates tax revenue, attracts visitors and gives residents a place that they can be proud of. Locally owned businesses help create the unique character that differentiates Pittsburgh from other places. So you can see example of a study that was done in the Asheville area where a Walmart, for example, how much tax revenue it brings in and property value, but it also sits on 34 acres of land. So when you compare that to what a mixed-use, multi-story, high-density development would be downtown, the return on investment is much, much higher to the community. And we are looking to get more information on this and update the maps. The Chatham County GIS department created that map for us. So we're working on that to provide more information.

Just a real quick question. The flare-up on the east side of town, is that? Is that the Chatham Park entrance there or is that?

That's the vineyards. That's the vineyards. So that represents the higher valued houses that are brand new in that new part of town.

Yeah, those are more of like the million plus dollar homes.

I think it's value per acre. So it's smaller lot.

That goes with density. It is much better for the local economy.

So what we get to focus on is East Street and West Street. That's where our value is, correct? According to this map, that's where we want it.

We're existing. This is showing the value of, you know, for economic vitality. But yes, moving forward, this should also be a good reason to promote high density type development. compact high density yes sir yeah and compact high density that's mixed use because that's where the revenue comes from is the mixed use that's correct so downtown like hillsborough street where you see first story retail restaurant second story office uh residential and we're look we'll we'll get to that in a second but we're looking at character districts with different heights um going up to six stories or more.

Is the purple spike on West Street, is that West End?

We think so, yeah. I need to zoom in more, but we think that's the West End property.

Well, Zed, we said thank you. He thanks us, I'm sure.

So another huge project we've been working on is evaluating our downtown boundaries, the downtown support areas, and potential incentive districts. so everything that we do again it's tied back to the land use plan um the map in the middle there with the bright colors is our future land use plan map that we overlaid our future corridors from our comprehensive transportation plan so you can see all the red lines well chatham parkway is partially built but those are identified as areas where we will probably want to see corridors built in order to address like congestion downtown, for example. So we're trying to tie everything together as we're looking at how downtown should grow. Bottom left is our current zoning measure. And the top right is just a draft of potential incentive boundaries. So our downtown dream team has been working on this for several months. It's been interesting going through the down zoning law and what can be allowed and what not allowed, which is why we're going the incentives route. So goal is hopefully we'll be able to implement it in the UDO as requirements but for the time being it'd be more it's kind of like our affordable housing incentives where if you provide at least 10% of your units at 70% AMI you can have double the density and that's an admin level staff level approval it also helps guide the town board in rezoning and conditional rezoning requests It also provides any developers that come to town direct information on, hey, this is what is important to the community. I kind of mentality we're also looking at the upcoming streetscape project our streetscape stars is working more on that specifically we're. going to go visit apex and caitlin setting up meetings with do T and contacted apex so that we can go visit learn from them. on what we can do potentially better and what they've done well so that it's a successful project where all the businesses can stay open and accessible the entire time and have it go where all the business owners understand what's happening and it's streamlined. Again, some internal action items. more for staff to look at outside of the collaborative work plan with all the volunteers. Moving on to design, which is preserving and enhancing the downtown Pittsburgh's physical character. It includes historic preservation, public art, creative placemaking, walkability, connectivity, beautification, and long-range planning. So historic preservation, this is a carryover project that the downtown designers team has been working on for several months, contacting SHPO and looking into different areas of downtown and the surrounding areas of downtown on how we can better preserve historic properties. Also looking at how we connect Robeson Creek to downtown, Like we've mentioned, I mentioned before, we have several comprehensive plans, including the bike and pet plan and the parks and recs plan. So looking specifically at the Greenway, the creek itself, Greenway Trail and how we can connect that to downtown. Phase two of this will be other areas on connections downtown. Well, this is all to new art projects upcoming fiscal year here's a. slide of all the different public art that our downtown design committee has been a part of and there's we're still working on. Another. Get approved before the end of this fiscal year. We're also looking at creating a cultural asset inventory. It will be an interactive map that shows basically all the art downtown and areas where potentially art can be placed. We're also wanting to incorporate the Create a Place Thinking recommendations into the vision plan. So this was the original committee that worked on that, which was also a very large committee. We also want to continue supporting the sculpture show and the linear park and art walk on East Street going all the way to West Street eventually. And there's grants that we plan to apply for to help implement that as well. Our downtown pollinator program and implement it in at least one location. And We're finding our downtown alleyway design, and there's some visuals of the potential of our alleyway in the future. And that's an extension of our West Salisbury Street streetscape concept plan as well.

That is such an important project, and I know it's going to be such a challenging one, but it's just we have so much potential on the back sides of those buildings. And I think know obviously there's a lot of stakeholders a lot of players a lot of moving parts that's i think that's exactly why it needs so much attention so i'm very grateful that it's that it's going to be a carryover project yes sir our first step is a survey downtown of a valley way so we're working on that right now actually digitize it and understand exactly where everything is exactly yeah

all the existing infrastructure.

And that's the surveys this fiscal year still?

Yes, we are trying to finalize that contract before July 1st. Some internal projects as well. Lastly, going into promotions, focusing on downtown social value. And we have several promotion teams in the committee itself. Where we still want to expand small business Saturday activities that remains a high priority. And another big project we've been working on is our downtown tourism initiative. We've hired clean marketing firm, and these are some of the projects that visuals of things that they're going to help us do better. We also want to keep promoting shopping events downtown, such as Finally Fridays, First Sundays, Farmer's Market, ActFest, FightFest, etc. And increased teen involvement. You mentioned our ex-officio high schooler, high school student. So our outgoing member, Waylon, and then our incoming, London, They've already started putting together a list of contacts to have a public or a teen, young adult public input session where we can hear from teens and young adults on what do we need to do better downtown, such as activities, events, ways that they can help volunteer. Going back into supporting, here's our Friendly Fridays. a shopping event, so providing more logistical support for that. Here's pictures of several of the other activities and events that we've had downtown over the past couple of years and want to continue doing that. We don't want to add any new community events, but support the ones that we have. That's kind of our goals for this fiscal year right now. update our website to include all the downtown events. Hopefully we can do that with this new position. Much better than what it's been, unfortunately. And more internal action items. So this PowerPoint was included in your packet if you'd like to read through them more. And if you have any questions, just let me know. So in closing, the work plan reflects recommendations from PDAB, volunteers, businesses, community partners, and adopted town plans. Try to balance economic development, design, tourism, infrastructure coordination, business support, and community engagement. And again, most importantly, none of this happens alone. It's a result of collaboration, everyone working together towards a shared vision.

Thank you and please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you. Any questions for Theresa?

I just said we started this off saying I've got like 39 or 40 slides, but each one was so engaging and so exciting. I couldn't wait for the next one, not because I wanted you to finish, but they were just, they were so good and I'm so excited about The plans for downtown because downtown is pittsburgh, it is our brand, and this is awesome.

Thank you very much and caitlin help with the making it look so pretty. Good job.

Thank you. All right.

Oh i'm sorry, yes, there is an action.

Recommendations to approve the. motion to approve downtown pittsburgh annual work plan for FY 2627 as presented and recommended.

second thank you commissioner bonnets and commissioner thurber all those in favor say aye aye aye um let's take a five minute recess i moved did we take him five minutes back up next is the town lake master plan update okay i'm gonna give a little update

So we are here tonight and want to get a little bit of history of why we even got, why we even sought to look for a master plan update for Town Lake. and one of the things is we know the bridge right that washed out so that's problematic right we've always heard ever since community feedback is we really want that connectivity throughout the whole property of that all the way around the pond so how how do we get that what does that look like and then from the existing area of there is very limited parking and there's very sporadic parking whenever you're there. So we got to a point where, okay, we know what we have here. We love what we have here, but it just needs to flow a little bit better. So what does that look like? And so we just saw it from some consultants of Bring us up to bring us up to speed and let's see how we can do this if this is our main goal of getting this what does it look like, especially with the sidewalk being extended, all the way to the front, where do we go from here so. Right, so we took the overall analysis their constraints are going to be in red that you see so it's everything from the topography the flood zones. And we have an orange thing that we know that are wanting to stay. So we know that the soccer field that we wanna have that playground space up at the front. We know that there's a existing path. We want to enhance that and whatever it looks like and a neighborhood connection that's on the end of Cotton Street. And what opportunities do we have going from there? So we came up with two design concepts, which is what we're here today of what we're really looking at. One is more of a minimalist design and two is more of an optimal design. Your minimalist design is really focusing on things that ultimately we can do for the most part in house right and then your optimal design is okay if you're wanting to really have the ada accessible sidewalks and more of a full connectivity on that level that is going to be your more optimal design if you're looking for tape there are just a couple of washed out areas along the trail and it's in its existence right now let's just keep it the way it is and just build that up a little bit that's something that we could do in-house and what does each plan bring to the table And how do we get there? Are there certain studies that need to be done? What studies and what are those costs look like? And we will find out more costs once we decide which plan we want to pursue. So keep that in mind as well. This is something that we will have a little bit more of an understanding once we decide which direction we're going to go to. So as you see too, the optimal designs versus minimal designs, optimal is not only a little bit more polished, but there's also different overlooked places. Both of them have water access. One maybe for your minimalist option is still more of your just entry, natural entry for the lake. Whereas your optimal entry is maybe having the ADA access more formalized entry if you're putting in commute access. One thing I will say, because this has been a hot topic too, is when are we getting more fish for that pond? And I will say this will be further in the study. That is a little bit more complex. because there is something that's in that particular lake that's called Parrot's Feather. And it is a weed that sucks the oxygen out of the water that prohibits fish from being able to breathe and life to be able to be in there. And that is actually coming from Robeson Creek. So that's dumping into Town Lake.

So, whereas this is not,

without a lot of maintenance and consistent maintenance every single year to be able to keep the parrot's feather at bay, to be able to stock the pond, that is not going to be your ideal place to go fishing per se. However, the pond at the Robeson Creek site is a freshwater pond is great. And that is a perfect site for stocking. So whereas we won't have that one. And for that one, that's more of a fishy and not as much as a hard kayaking canoeing type thing. So there's a little bit of a balance there. Alright, so facing options further away from the the line is the more expensive that you're going to be essentially Going through some of these and the minimalist design. Again, these are things that are gonna be more in-house. You're gonna keep the trails very natural. You're gonna take a minimalist approach. This is optimal, more polished. You have more parking than you have on the first minimal. Break it down in different sections, right? So for this first leg, This is, you're gonna have your nice fits, whether that's gonna be as nice as you'll see in a minute. And maybe some trail heads, maybe some seating. This is something what that looks like for more of a minimalist design. For the optimal design, you would have, instead of the natural trails, you would have more of the boardwalks and you would get in and you would have asphalt places and more, and it's going to be more costly and maybe overlooked places. And then having the natural trails in the middle of that section is maybe even a play spot. Normalized trail head at the connection down by in front of Pittsburgh Elementary School. So the second phase of that which you can see on the map is the other side. And you're looking at minimalist design for this area is going to be a little bit more relaxed, having your nice trail, not as much parking because it's not going to be as active, a little bit of overlook. Right, very, very passive areas. And then your optimal is just being enhanced, more parking, more bathrooms that are gonna be there, maybe a larger playground in the areas, everything that is gonna be paved. More of a higher, I guess ADA accessible access, water access, versus your minimalist approach, which is just a defined access point, similar to what you see now. All right, so, and this is the back leg so again if you're wanting to connect it, there are going to be a couple of different places that you would have to have for walks but, for the most part, we would still be able to do this, most of this work in house. and for the optimal design this is really just enhancing adding more art structures or art sculptures around the side having more formal overlooks fences maybe even an additional parking lot on the other side all right so the bridges not to confuse you, bridges are a completely separate ball game. And they're not, it's not a, if you choose option one, you can get a bridge, or if you choose option two, you get bridges. Those are completely separate because no matter what, if you're looking at bridges, it's all around the same process, right? You're gonna have to get a delineation study and that costs five, that has a, Time limit of five years is so you don't want to get something like that until you're ready to construct construct something like that. So what we did was we said, and this is not saying hey. If three where all three bridges, this is not saying that we want to build three bridges on this site that's not what this is saying this is saying where are some options your three X is where the existing bridge was that was washed. And that is going to be your best for connectivity, if you are looking. There are other options that you weren't necessarily tied for that free X. Or maybe down the road, who knows? Maybe we just have a lot, a lot, a lot of money, Heather. And we just want to say, just for even more connectivity. You want to have more? Then we can look at 3Z, which could be a little hidden bridge to connect people, or at 3Y, something that's front and center that you can connect right there as a little smaller loop type thing. To make that happen, you're going to have to do the same thing. You're always going to have to do the delineation study, the floodway study, the H&H analysis, all of those things. It doesn't matter for which bridge that you do. So those are some of the things just to keep in mind and that's why the bridges are a totally separate thing.

Just a moment just to confirm 3Z on the north side do I recall that that's where that very significant rise topographical rise there's a very tall mound is that at that location?

Leaves right there across there.

the two levels are yeah it's just to the right of where the two levels are because where the the spillway is that's a pretty narrow crossing um but if you go further down i think it's like topo wise from one side of the pond to the other it's fairly flat so then you can you could span that okay yeah a little bit more easily thank you yes sir and then these are your different options whether you you want to have your just standard

We need bridge all the way up to one of your more fancy artistic bridges. Yeah, there are options. Again, when Heather releases the videos of money, we have, right? So ultimately, here's what I want us to consider and really think about is that this may seem Especially when you're looking at master plans and keeping our master places, this is not saying hey, we have to do everything right that's not what a master plan is a master plan is saying hey here are your opportunities here's what you can do so you look, for example. For optimal design number two, it shows so many different outlooks. That's not saying, this master plan, ultimately, you have to do all of those outlooks. That's not what it is. It's just saying that, hey, here are some options. And maybe down the road, in phases, you can do those. This could say, hey, we may want to keep one side natural and one side paid for this is going to be very close to the center of town and a great connectivity spot. We may say that one side, we want to at least have one side as paid for people with mobilities or people that are doing bicycles or things like that for that connection point. This this design is you've paid for the study. You might as well get the costs from all options, because right now, if you're doing it, you can say, hey, to a from the connection that's going in front of the elementary school might be the best option at this point. But by the time that you're constructing it or have the funds to be able to go and do that, who knows the tc the 2c area might be a better option at least you would know have a better idea by pursuing and at least gathering some of those costs of what you would be facing so just some things to think about in that aspect of it i don't i don't We often get caught up in a lot of numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers, and that's not necessarily from you. Whenever I'm looking at these, sometimes it's like, oh, okay, what are our options? And what is this? This gives us a better idea of where we can go and when we can go in the future, depending on what's going on and where we're at as a town.

I like the thought of mixing the two.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're phasing.

Have you considered a complete loop for joggers? So what I see right there, if I'm following trails around the lake, there's no way to go in a complete circle, or is there?

Not right now.

Not right now. Lack of bridge. Lack of bridge, probably.

the entrance but then then you have a gosh that's probably two and a half mile run right yeah and even on the back trail there's some like mountain bike trail but even on the back side right now it's not fully connected is that the trail that comes out behind pittsburgh elementary school that is Yes, that is open, but closest to the bridge side, that is at the end of 2A, up on that top side.

Good. So you mentioned the reason we can't stop the pond, because that was a big concern of people. Well, the other big concern are the stakes in there. Could you just speak to why we cannot remove the stakes? Because I hear that all the time.

Yeah, so that's a great question. That was a study that was done several years ago, I think with NC State University. That's something that's going to be discussed more when we get this final study. From my understanding, those were the stakes and the tarp that was placed in there was put for some ecological study or whatnot, we don't have the resources to get that out right now. And we don't know what impact that is. So until we have further understanding of what that looks like, I don't necessarily want to disturb that without understanding really what are the full scope of what that impact would be. And so that in the study is along with the ponds, restoration, um dredging it and things like that will also be in the study too and the official master plan study to see how hey what does it look like to get this done fully done and remove that is that put there when um the lake was drained a few years ago or the pond that's been there ever since i've been here at least

That study was done by NC State and I was probably maybe here maybe a year and they came in and did this study at no charge and they pretty much ruined the lake to be honest with you because it was full and the water kept fluctuating and fishing got bad. Several other issues started too but I don't think the lake's been full in years.

Do you remember who was town manager at that time?

Oh, gosh. Mr. Terry, maybe? Terry.

Just trying to chronology estimate of when it was.

So our goal here is to provide some guidance to you. I see. And in what structured way do you need guidance?

Really need more towards the optimal design or the minimalist design?

Well, obviously the optimal, but we have no price.

Exactly. That's what this study would give us.

So right now you have some hydrology issues for bridges for $100,000 per bridge, right? What about, do you have any ballparks for the minimalist versus optimal? And can we, can we do hybrid? Where are we getting the money for this? There's a lot for us.

That's part of the reason why we do the master plan as well. And why we have one of these options, because a lot of the grants that we would be applying for the more specific of the plan. Okay. the better points that we get on the grants, right? So we have a clear outline of where we are going to go in, say, a master plan, the more points, the better we are when we apply to receive those grants. I can tell you for bridges, the swinging bridge that was just on here, that one, All the way to the left was about $700,000. Now, that was probably a third longer only construction.

You're anywhere from $1,200 to $2,000 a linear foot. Right.

Okay. Is the plan to rely on grants for this?

Mike Nygren, exclusively on grants, you have other funding options, the Duke energy bridge. Mike Nygren, Sponsorships things like that.

Mike Nygren, Broadly it's more of what is, what is the vision of town lake park, what would you like the vision of town like part to be and then, once we know that, then we can go to work to figure out how to make that happen okay.

I'm curious, too, if we can do the design for the optimal design and then kind of scale back to the others as grants come in. If we get a grant for this section, that's great. But at least we would know, ideally, this would be what we want and it's going to cost this much. In the meantime, we might have our crews go out there and clean up the trail.

That would be our intent in general?

Yep.

of still doing updates as we can with what we have internally right now with the grants and things. Again, just like many things that we do, it's going to be a very phased approach. But understanding too, while we have the opportunity for this study to have all options on the table to see what everything costs, I think is something to consider.

From attending the special meeting, it seemed like Parib was advising that this should stay a natural. I think they used the word historic, park, minimalist, less is more. But I know from other meetings that I've attended and talking to people, And basically the town's goal seems to be for everything to be connected. So connectivity is so important. I think it's also really important that we make sure that all of our parks have a good level of accessibility for everybody. So I liked your idea of possibly even doing a hybrid, like this section is all ADA and picking the best area for that. I do think I like what you were mentioning. Let's go for the whole study. Let's start doing what we can in-house. But I do think our focus, I think we need to define it. Our focus should be making sure that the park is available to be used by everybody and be connected.

At least portions.

Yeah, at least portions. It doesn't necessarily have to be the whole thing.

The whole thing would be apparently extraordinarily expensive. Yeah.

And there are people who like natural trails. I like what you said about the part of it.

Minimalist approach for part of the work. So I would really love it if we could get the present issues addressed, those things that are just really needing attention immediately and in a naturalistic way. while also continuing to have goals or vision towards the more maximalist optimal scenarios. I think, you know, there's some signs down. There's some things that need to be removed from the park. I think I'm hoping those things are things that we can do in-house. Maybe in a couple of areas, put down some more Chapel Hill grid or something just to eliminate very clear stumble hazards. And then, you know, once we've gotten to that point, let's go for a big bold vision, but let's also make sure that we get it workable and usable now, because there's people who have the perception that the park is closed. And with one of the entrances having barricades up, it looks like that.

So, yeah. There is a portion of the park that's . Because of the storm damage.

Well, the bridge, yeah, the bridge is clearly, and we might, you know, we might, that'll be nicer too, get some carpentry work instead of just something that's, I don't know. I think there's more that we can do to get it to a point where it's usable and pleasant while we also strive for a more ambitious, design. But, um, my, my concern with aiming for the big maximalist optimal design is we just, we just don't have the money. And so do we really want to invest in dreaming up or studying those higher priced features at this moment in time? Or do we want to wait Three years, five years, might be higher.

Well, doing the study and getting the numbers, so choosing option, the optimal design will then trigger Pond, our consultant, to get us the pricing on all of those items and present that in the final study document. So then that's what we will, like Katie was saying, that's how we would then provide that when we are submitting for grants. So at least it provides an option. And then it provides an option to best maybe optimize and meet those goals by being able to apply for multiple grants, because there might be specific grants for, say, a bathroom, specific grants for something else.

Handicap access.

Yes. And then we can. And then we'll see how. And then those items would be brought to the board.

And you all allocated $300,000-ish. last year at some point. So we could always take that money that's literally sitting there for Town Lake and kind of do what you mentioned, clean stuff up, make some changes in house internally while we figure out the bigger picture.

And at that point too, you can start selling it. The idea of it, you can push for corporate donations or there's a lot of things you can do if we have an optimal optimal design that is innovative and sexy we can get we can elicit help.

So that's unless you were planning to use that money for a match on something.

For right now.

not accounted for it's not allocated i don't have specific plans for it right now so i don't know if you were thinking maybe use that for a match on something once you get the study done so a lot we'll unpack that yeah you know looking at the uh at the area this this town lake park is in we have we don't it's kind of a a place where there's not a lot of stuff in pittsburgh there kind of balances the the park on the on east uh behind the plant there's a balance there be really cool to be able to walk from here across robeson creek go down robeson creek to the plant yeah yes yes on diane street or something so i i think it's a great spot i think it'll balance well And I can also envision families spending the whole day there if it's pleasant enough. There's trees. There's lots to do.

So the bridge really is critical in restoring that. It is a very significant undertaking.

Well, I'd like to make a motion to proceed with option one while also considering option two. Second. I was like, no, because I feel like we're right in the middle. Like we're both saying we're in the middle. So what do we say?

We can always scale back. Yeah. Go up. And then I think that's what Heather was saying.

Right. So I was saying if you choose option two, optimal design, you're at least getting pricing on everything. You don't have to implement everything.

So I'd like to make a motion to proceed with option two.

OK. Is there a second? Second. Second, Commissioner Foley. Any other discussion?

One question is, what's the condition with the dam?

It's fine.

Yeah, it's fine. Based on what they were saying, they had engineers that were out there that they said that it was fine.

The leak fix is holding. And I know we haven't had any rain, but are we below normal levels? We're at normal level?

Yeah. I mean, previously from when the dam, because around this time, it would have been empty.

OK. Good.

Because of the leak. Because of the leak. OK.

Hella Pannewig-Sachman, Co-Chair HHHS, Include in the motion that part about going ahead and fixing. Hella Pannewig-Sachman, Co-Chair HHHS, What we can in house. Hella Pannewig-Sachman, Co-Chair HHHS, Friendly men.

Hella Pannewig-Sachman, Co-Chair HHHS, I guess separate.

Hella Pannewig-Sachman, Co-Chair HHHS, And we're just choosing this design or that design right now is that what the question is. And I. Hella Pannewig-Sachman, Co-Chair HHHS, I like heather's idea. Just go to the big one, and then we can pair back. I think that would help.

Motion second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you.

Thank you.

Up next, Chatham Park South Village section 22 or 23 E2 parkland relocation.

So this is something that was brought back to Parib, which is now being brought back to the Board of Commissioners. We had three separate options. For this, this is the E2 location and this was an additional map that was provided. This one is for the South Village overall, whenever you're looking at your five minute walk or your half mile walk from your closest park. Originally, a lot of the maps that they were showing, it was from the center point of the park. This is the five-minute walk from each point of the park. So all of this area in the green, only the lighter parts, the lighter shades are the spaces that are not within your quote-unquote five-minute, meets your five-minute walk area. I know that that was a concern last time. So these are your overall what's being discussed. This is what's on the table. E1 is the existing approved one. That's not the one that we're discussing, but just this is your next closest one. E2, which is your original and the looks like a lime green up there. That's where it is originally. It is with the fire station right there. So I want to make sure that that's on your radar as well. And you have the three different proposed locations for it. That light purple being option three. That I would say like a Kelly green, I guess, would be option two. And then the blue up top would be the option one for relocation.

Can you refresh my memory about why we're provided these ones?

So this is more from a transparency perspective. I know that we have a lot of these questions, or we have a lot of these conversations. And just again, you have your master plans. They are subject to change. And based on some of the developments and things like that, this area could change. So what they're proposing is this E2 needs to be relocated, that property. So we're looking at three different options.

And before you go any further, E2 needs to be relocated. I forget what it was. Was it topography, access? What was it? I don't remember.

So that is relocated for, I believe, development purposes.

OK. It didn't fit in the development plan where it currently is. OK. Katie and I both feel we are quite happy to have it moved. This was one of our least favorite park locations in the South Village.

Why?

OK. A lot of slope in it. And you'll see. Which one was that, Jonathan? I'm sorry.

The original location. So, and I'll show it to you right here. So this is E1, right? So this is not what we're voting on right now. This is E1, this is already established, right? In the plan that was approved in the South Village Small Area Plan. This was the original location, right? So it's not terrible. It just says access is out there a little bit. This was relocation option one. And as you can see, it's all the way up at the top in the grand scheme of things. Blue one.

Blue.

Yes, this is the blue. Topo is not great on this one. And the access is very limited. And per para, this is not. This is not one that we're considering. Now, this is option two, right? Topo's OK.

The stream crossing there, right? Mm-hmm. What is the meaning of the colors?

So the meaning of the colors is if you look at the bottom right, you can see that key.

Green is 5%. Hello is 10%. And that's the best the maximum orange is 20 and red is maximum of 100 minimum is 05 10 and Red is the very steepest parts.

Yes. And the green and yellow are the flatter more buildable parts. Sorry, get the right. Yep. Thank you.

And then This would be option 3, and again, this is the left. That little green spot whenever you're looking at this is the existing approved in 1.

Well, that 1's got a nice access to the road. And it drops off to the west, obviously, but the majority of it is pretty doggone flat. Is there a stream crossing there? There's not, is there?

There's that stream crossing right there to the left. In that little red, there is.

Far west? Yes.

Okay. However, there will be a multiuse path going all the way down that front.

I'm sure the town can maintain that. Not an issue.

I mean, this is going to be an installable to use that.

That they're that they are going to be constructing the town will maintain it because he will not.

Yeah, we will have to. So, each of these have a fire station location as well, right? Which is. To be determined where on the parcel once we accept location. Yes.

for this site didn't you have yeah for this particular site um it would we'd want to put it in the corner of charlie brooks and i keep forgetting um hanks chapel so that way they could have two points of access yeah okay one question where do we know that charlie brooks extension road where is it coming out at on hanks chapel road we don't know right

Right there. Right there?

Yeah. Or do you mean in the other direction? The other direction.

I mean, where is Charlie Brooks Road extension coming out on Hanks Chapel Road?

You can't zoom out, can you?

I can go back here.

There you go.

I can't read that, man. I can't read mine here either.

Yeah.

yeah let's see if we can find it did you pull it up all day i guess i could uh no no you know where clark hoe road is that and it kind of goes into a dirt road that then changes to the lake That's getting out of our fire district. It is right at this southern end of our fire district. So this would be this would be the furthest southern southeast station that we would have before you get into. Oh, I'm I'm blanking on that.

I'm not sure if the study we did had a station that far.

It did.

And this location is just south of that octagon where it showed. And it actually may be in one of the tips of it, but it's really close.

Do the fire department and the park have to be on the same plot?

They don't have to be.

OK. Is option two the piece that is closest to the Army Corps land? Yes.

However, upon looking and upon asking several different departments and people that have worked, That is not necessarily a partnership that we could pursue, to be able to have access. That was one of Parib's questions of, hey, well, since it's so close to Jordan Lake, can we not have direct access to Jordan Lake through Army Corps Engineering? That's just not, from my understanding, that's not something that would be on the table.

But we can get access to the 30 acres. off of Hanks Chapel Road. For option two? Yeah, for option two. Correct. So I was really intrigued that recommendation was unanimous that they favored option two and option three, and staff are recommending only option three. So help me understand that.

So para said that they wanted to put it on the board of commissioners. So they said that we don't really have one way or the other.

So, um, okay.

So for me is that if it's staff's recommendation, my recommendation was for option three, because then you have one large regional park. That is a lot of land all in one. And that is fantastic topography. And you have two fronts .

We can't accept, the wording in the memo is confusing me. Are we not being offered 58.7 acres?

So we are not being offered option two and option three.

No. It's one or the other.

Option three.

Yes. All right.

Rather, the parent's recommendation was both of them rather than four.

No. They just liked either one. They liked either one. They were not committing to either one.

I think the quote was, let the Board of Commissioners pick. OK.

And I wasn't able to get through to very many of them for further questions, but the little bit that I did learn was intriguing about the idea of a park program for this region that would be, I guess in park parlance, passive. hike and trails, and et cetera, on option two is really intriguing.

Just to clarify, the actual, what we end up doing with the land, I mean, that will come out at a later, in terms of community outreach and all of, you know, doing the master plan for the area. So it might not end up being a passive park. It might end up being something else. So that, I wouldn't choose the location just based on it being a passive park.

How far is that from Tiger Rescue and CARES? A mile.

And probably more than that, could it be more? Bald eagle and all down to that development.

I was about to say, Shorty, did you correct me? Yeah, it's right above the bald eagle subdivision, not the other one I said.

I'm thinking about families visiting the park and the tiger rescue concept, you know, day tripping.

And option three would create a 63-acre park in that area, correct?

I love the topo on this one. How much acreage would be a fire department in the northeast corner there? How many acres to?

They will assign three acres to that fire station per their element, but that doesn't mean we have to use all three. But I think we reserve it for the fire station or the fire department until we design the station together, which that's going to be a while.

I think that's important. That three acres is satisfying the requirement, but if it ends up being two and a half or 3.1 or whatever, that's up to us later to satisfy that.

you could do some type of joint storm water there with parking for the park and bathrooms and then the fire station next to it you know develop it all kind of different ways have we gotten the input from the the fire chief and what was his thumbs up yes sir dual road frontage is good that's one of the keys in the element itself you kind of want to be at a at a corner yeah but we both laughed knowing that either Daryl or I will probably see the construction of this fire station. The other point that I would add is if you look at the zoomed in one that has the blue kind of circles. Red circles? The blue right here. is that that's the uh blue line okay i'm sorry i'm sorry the blue what is that again um watershed watershed so option two is it come 100 in the watershed and so that's going to limit some of the things that you can do there yeah okay but if it's passive yeah that's where it wouldn't matter i mean if it's against uh

game lands and Army Corps land, I think it wants to be passive. So yeah, certainly.

Any other questions or comments?

I'll just say I'm still a little confused.

About the location or the number of choices?

Yes. Yes and yes. Answer all the questions.

You know where Bald Eagle is subdivision? Yeah. So one is, hold on, not one. Let me say the exact. Option three is just north of the Bald Eagle subdivision. And then option two is going to be to the east on the east side of Gum Springs across the street from Bald Eagle, which is at the very southern end of Fire District.

What do you have on the scene? This is three, right?

This is Austin. This is Austin. A little bit of two.

Three. This one.

Two is blue there. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that's three.

I think the major differentiators, option three has dual road frontage and would create a larger regional park. And then option two is uh in the watershed and with backup to game lands and state real too right with the game lands is there do we have restrictions like next to the game land not sure what we what