Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

evening everybody like call this meeting to order and note that we do have a quorum thank you very much representatives for being here if we would take a minute all rise and join in the Okay call to the public first item on the agenda this is a business meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission The Town hereby welcomes and encourages public participation. Individuals addressing the Commission shall direct all remarks to the Commission as a whole and shall refrain from addressing individual Commission members, Town staff, or members of the audience. Pursuant to the Arizona Open Meeting Law, The Commission is limited in its ability to discuss or take action on matters raised during the call to the public. The Commission may, however, direct staff to review the matter and place it on a future agenda for consideration. Items that are scheduled on the current agenda will not be heard or discussed during the call to the public. Speakers are limited to three minutes each. Okay, item C, approval of the planning and zoning minutes from the July 25, 2026 meeting.

I move to recommend a... I move to make a motion. I move to recommend a town council... No, that's not the right one, right? I move to approve the minutes... from the meeting that we had on June 25th.

Second. Very good. Motion and a second. Any discussion on the minutes? No discussion noted. All those in favor of acceptance of the minutes as represented, please raise your right hand. That passes unanimously. The minutes are approved as represented for the June 25th, 2026 meeting. Item D, new business. Public comment will be taken at the beginning of each agenda item after the subject has been announced by the chairman and explained by staff. Any citizen who wishes may speak once for five minutes on each agenda item before the commission discussion. Questions from the commission members, however, may be directed to staff may be directed to staff or a member of the public through the chairman at any time. Okay, item D1, public hearing. The next agenda item is public hearing, discussion, and possible recommendations regarding an amendment to the Town Code, Title 17, Chapter 17-108, sign regulations. And staff, we have a presentation.

Sure. So the town, or sorry, staff recommends moving forward with amending chapter 17, 108 sign regulations. Background on this is that the town's current sign code CONTAINS PROVISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN OUTDATED AS BUSINESS ECONOMICS HAVE CHANGED AND THE NEEDS OF LOCAL BUSINESSES IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO ADVERTISE THEIR SIGNS BUT ALSO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE AESTHETICS TO THE COMMUNITY HAVE EVOLVED OVER SEVERAL YEARS AND ARE NOW INCONSISTENT AND LACK SUFFICIENT CLARITY RESULTING IN CONFUSION IN OUR TOWN CODE FOR BUSINESSES LOOKING TO PUT UP SIGNS IN OUR COMMUNITY AND AS WELL AS FOR PERSPECTIVE BUSINESSES. Penny and zoning met in June to on a work session, uh, reviewing the current sign regulations. And, um, we went through its entirety and then compared it against the city of Sholo as well as the town code for, um, cave Creek. And then went back to town attorney and reviewed it in thorough to make sure that all of the sign regulations were, um, in legal order. From there, the public hearing is to receive public comment on and consider proposed amendments to the signed regulations. The proposed revisions were prepared by myself as well as with town attorney Bill Sims to incorporate the recommendations from staff, legal review, and the signed regulations adopted by similarly situated Arizona municipalities. There are no financial impacts. that are direct to the town. However, many businesses will be able to make better financial decisions when it comes to their signs without having to do a lot of guesswork and be submitting sign permits when they're not sure what they need to be doing. And it'll be able to provide them better direction and also be able to clean up some of our signs within the community. We went in thorough with especially the definitions. There was a lot of things that were really unclear and that felt unfair to our local businesses. then in addition to perform to provide better support when it comes to the blight science within our community and get those updated in addition to that some over since our work session as things have evolved our town wasn't created perfectly on a grid and we know that it was created organically by business owners and so I There will be sign requests that probably won't fit directly into what we have within our sign regulations. And so we want to make sure that we're able to be adaptable and flexible within our signs, but also make sure that they're feeling supported. The proposed amendment are intended to provide legal, reasonable regulations that allow for businesses and government identification, communication, and advertising. as well as balance public and private objectives and needs of businesses for adequate, safe, and reasonably regulated signage for businesses' identification, as well as promote the use of signs that are aesthetically pleasing or appropriate with the surrounding buildings and landscape in order to meet the community's expressed desire for quality development. Our alternatives for tonight, if we do not wish to move forward with the sign regulations to town council, are to either approve it or defer for future work and review it some more and provide additional direction to staff.

All right, very good. Do any of the commissioners have any questions for staff before we proceed to a public hearing?

I have a question. Sure. In the background it says, in some instances detracts from the community appearance and character. So we would make exceptions for certain things that fit what we feel like we want or what we think the town is? Is that what I'm understanding in that?

Can you repeat that?

So what you're saying is that some of the signs will not fit our standards. Correct. But we're going to be okay with that.

Ultimately, the community development department does have final say. There are some businesses and some building structures throughout our community that may not have the normal resources, for instance, for a monument sign, or they might not have an easement in order to be able to put up what we are asking them to do. And so we might have to make accommodations to be able to provide them the ability to advertise for their business, but also make sure that it's aesthetically pleasing. So we want to make sure it's attractive and fitting with the community and adding value versus detracting away from that.

And, and with the planning and zoning commission be the final say on that, or would the, you and your department be the final say on that?

Typically the department is the final say on that. Um, If there is something that's within question, especially structurally speaking, or that comes into conflict with planning and zoning specifically, let's say if it's in an easement or something like that, then we can bring it to planning and zoning.

Okay.

It feels a little uneasy because we've had the thought of working as we set the standards, we put the field goal up, and we live within that field goal. Now we have a certain policy that depends on the whim or the feelings of someone that may be good or bad I I feel that that that that's what we're getting into we're muddying the water on that yeah I would say within the sign code specifically the additions that we've added to it is actually provided more details about what we're speaking to especially in the the beefing up of the definitions

We lacked a lot of definitions in terms of the different types of science that are currently what people are using, or sorry, businesses are doing today. The last time it was updated was about 2016. So it's been some time. And I know that we have some businesses. think we're all aware is that like the old E&E building trying to put it on top of their building we've been trying to figure out how we can work with that business and that would be a very special circumstance where we'd have to take a step back and think about what's gonna add value to the community and look nice within our town but also be able to provide business identification as well so there would be there could always potentially be the exception and not the norm in any situation with the sign. I don't want to speak into the future in a very tight space, but within our new regulation, we're providing more information and more direction as well as when signs are going out of date or not being, um, falling apart or they're like just a big open frame. We're actually taking action on that because before we didn't really have a whole lot of teeth to it. We just kind of look at it and go, please take it down. But instead now we actually have a good process and protocol so that way we can hold those businesses to a step system in order to make sure that they understand why we're doing this and why it's important because we want to add value to the community. Understood. Thank you.

Any further questions?

Yeah, apparently right now the, uh, Blue Ridge Vet Clinic, they have a very bright sign. So I'm assuming they were already meeting the sign code. Are we going to allow for bright signs to continue like that? Yes. Turn into a Vegas boulevard?

So that one is, by a lumen standpoint, yes, it is conforming. The way that the lights are actually measured is by what's called nits. And so, for example, the sun is about 10,000 nits. And that's actually adjusted as far down as it can go, which is 6,000, which is within the visual parameters of our sign code itself. Looking at that sign as well as the one down Woodland Lake Boulevard, the hard part is, and I struggle with that light too, especially when I'm coming from the direction of Sholo, when I'm coming from the north side of town, is you hit that light right there at White Mountain Boulevard and Woodland Lake Road, and then your eyes adjust, and then you hit the next light at Blue Ridge, and then you turn that corner, and it's dark until you hit that thing, and it's pretty bright. I'm not quite sure what a good ultimate solution is on that, but it is within the parameters that we have currently.

I think on that one, the main concern, and it's been fixed over time. It was very flashy. It would change frequently. When you have a flashing light in the middle of the night and you're driving, that can affect some drivers. I think it's gotten better. I think... Yeah, it's gotten better.

I believe there's a standard for refresh in the code.

Yeah, we did address the flashing component within the code, so that way, to your point, it's not causing a disruption as you're driving, especially at night.

And that is a safety concern. It is. We're bringing that up because of safety, not because we don't like it.

Yes.

We don't like it, but it's the safety. Yeah.

Outside of E&E, are there many other older businesses that we would have to accommodate?

So we haven't been approached within the past at least 90 days that I can think of when it comes to businesses that are working to make accommodation adjustments. I know, for instance, we did have like Chrissy's Ski and Board and I guess you'd call it sign renting. So, and I talked to Kelly about that, and she's like, I'm in the business of renting, but she totally understands that it makes her business look like it's going out of business and create a confusion. That is a content-related item, so she can put it up there, but it is legal non-conforming. Other than that, we haven't had any other situations that have arisen with new businesses and stuff. They're working on being able to have capital to put up a sign, because they are pretty expensive. we've been a little bit more flexible to put up a banner for a little bit longer period of time, just so that way we're able to accommodate their needs without them having to take it directly out of their bottom line. But eventually we're working with them and they have a timeline as to when they need to go into a permanent structure.

But the effort is there to work with them. I mean, they're doing their best to get businesses up and running and you don't want to just go cut their knees out. No, you don't. Oh yeah, it's understandable.

Signs are expensive.

Yes.

Very expensive. So we want to make sure that they're able to promote their business, provide aesthetics to the community, and be successful within our town.

Further questions? All right, considering there's no further questions, I'll now open the public hearing at 6.15 p.m. Anyone wishing to speak may come forward when recognized. Please state your name for the record and keep your comments relevant to the matter under consideration. I see that we have no speakers to come forward. So at this time, I will close the public hearing at 6.15 PM. Public hearing is now closed. The matter is before the commission for discussion. I will entertain a motion regarding the proposed amendment.

I move to recommend that the Town Council amend Town Code 17.108 sign regulation to promote direction to current and future businesses to and balance the needs of our businesses with aesthetically pleasing and reasonable regulated businesses identification in the town of pine top lakeside thank you derek is there a second i'll second the motion very good any further discussion by the commissioners on the motion no discussion noted all those in favor of the motion please indicate by raising your right hand

The motion passes unanimous. Thank you very much. All right, item D2, welcome and introduction of the new commissioners and administration of the oath of office. Community Development Manager will welcome and introduce the newly appointed commissioners. Town Clerk will then administer the oath of office.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, commissioners. So tonight, we're really excited to welcome our two new commissioners, Kathy Strong and Phil Rhodes.

Ready? Yep. Chairman, if you want to come down.

Thank you. Thank you. and the state of Arizona, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to this name, and I will defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and that I, faithfully and impartially, will serve the duties of the office, and the plans of the nation, according to the vets,

I've got Mr. Rhodes. If you don't mind, you sign right here and date. Right there. August 15th.

Numbers for days, write it up.

Whatever you want to do.

August 15th.

Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. And you may take a seat up there.

You're over here, though. Sorry. OK. Thank you. See you guys.

Commissioner Strong.

Congratulations. Congratulations. All right.

And you can take a seat up there, too.

There you go.

OK, welcome. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Discussion of possible action regarding selection of the Planning and Zoning Chair and Vice Chairman for 2026 and 2027. I entertain any motions for the Chair and Vice Chair.

I nominate Jeff Stearns for the Planning and Zoning Chair.

second yeah Mimi second it yep any discussion on the motion all right a all those in favor of the motion please indicate by raising your right hand motion passes unanimous I would like to make a motion to recommend Derek as the vice chair. I know he's going to be leaving for council by the end of the year, but he's been with us. He's well studied in planning and zoning and welcome his assistance for the remainder of his term here. Is there a second?

I second the motion.

Very good. Any discussion?

We were talking earlier before the meeting started. When's Derek taking, going to be seated on council? December, right. Okay.

Actually, you'll be taking your oath and you'll be seated at the November 5th council meeting. So we will be posting for a vacancy on PNZ. Okay. Right.

Just my point is, nominating him and confirming Derek now is going to mean an Yeah, we'll have to do another vice chair.

That's correct. Yep. Any other comments? Okay. All those in favor of the motion, please indicate by raising your right hand. Okay. We have those opposed. One opposed. The motion passes. Very good. Thank you very much. Okay, we'll adjourn the regular meeting at this time.